On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.
The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.
I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.
There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.
That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.
That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.
Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.
The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.
The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.
If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.
On the insurance of players for injuries- guess what – for Scottish internationals, the SFA insure players for their wages when on international duty in case of injury….don’t tell me CO did not know the exact insurance needed then……..
“Unlike England and Scotland the Republic of Ireland don’t offer insurance or compensation for players who get injured,” Jez Moxley, the Wolves chief executive, said. “Fifa’s guidelines do not require them to do so. The clubs have to take out insurance to protect their players if they want to.
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/why-should-football-clubs-pay-the-price-for-players-international-injuries#page2#ixzz2mFw8dNOy
I am Scottish, I was born in Scotland as were my parents.
However recognising that the heritage of my ancestors is that of the Irish is nothing more than accepting where I come from and the traditions of those who came before me. I have no more desire to disown that than any other proud Scot whose ancestry is Scottish for generations back would disown theirs. I absolutely respect any pride they may have in their own heritage.
Celtic were called Celtic for that very reason, the word is both Scottish and Irish and it recognises the club as being Scottish, with Irish links. Celtic’s own mission statement has this to say on the subject.
http://www.celticfc.net/corporate_socialmission
Current Positioning of Celtic Football Club
Celtic Football Club is a Scottish football club with proud Irish links. The primary business of Celtic is as a football club. It is run on a professional business basis with no political agenda. However, the Club has a wider role and the responsibility of being a major Scottish social institution promoting health, well-being and social integration.
Who is Celtic Football Club for?
Celtic Football Club is for people who want to support a football club that strives for excellence in Scotland and in Europe, is proud of its history, supportive of its local community and seeks to support the following aims: “To maximise all opportunities to disassociate the Club from sectarianism and bigotry of any kind. To promote Celtic as a Club for all people, regardless of gender, age, religion, race or ability.”
======================================
That is not to say that everyone who follows Celtic would live up to those ideals. There are plenty who I wish would just go elsewhere. However I truly believe it is what the club itself stands for.
On Rangers history.
I was under the impression that the club was originally formed by 4 Scots. I’m not really sure where the links to Northern Ireland came from. Again I was under the impression that it was the people coming over from there who decided to take it on as their team, and made it the “protestant” club.
I am quite happy to be corrected on this, like I said it is just things I have picked up along the way and could easily be nonsense.
I expect Rangers would have got around the insurance situation by accepting any payment, either directly to the player or to the club, in line with the registered salary, then make it up to the player with, let’s say, an additional EBT payment? Or perhaps just make an additional payment via his normal salary and cough up the tax and NIC themselves.
Another possibility is that the player has received his EBT, gets injured, but is only then concerned about receiving his ‘honest’ salary. The insurance payment takes care of that and everyone is happy. If that is the case, Rangers accepted the potential loss when they decided to go ahead with the EBTs. Rangers will then only have committed a ‘crime’ if they did actually try to claim for the injured players full salary.
I would imagine it’s even possible that they could have covered a career ending injury by taking out an additional policy, with, say, an insurance company based in the Channel Islands, to cover the amount of salary covered by the EBT. Premium payment might then be included within the transfers to the EBTs to disguise the use of additional policies. However, amongst the massive amount of disguised payments being made, the payment of insurance premiums would be a doddle anyway.
Danish,
No, I remember a player being mentioned too in a kind of “Jeez louise msm we’re even giving you the players name for crying out loud” kind of a way. Forget who though. Klos maybe? That’s not to say it wasn’t investigated (on here, lets not expect too much of our media) and disproved though.
Eco.
The FTT was a misinterpreted done deal. Bryson was just an insult.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says: (1143)
December 1, 2013 at 7:03 pm
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WRT EBTs,salaries etc,
I seem to recall RFCs goalkeeper at the time claiming in his divorce case that he only earned £1k per week.
This was in the days of GazzA,Laudrup Butcher and Co.
=================================================================================
TJB….one of the benefits (?) of such EBT schemes as promoted was that in cases of marital discord/dispute/divorce, a party to such an EBT scheme, such as the RFC goalkeeper in question, could answer that his income was as such at an artificially low level. The balance of any other payments, contractual or otherwise, was “sheltered” in an offshore trust, masquerading as a “loan”, of the type Mr RC Ogilvie still enjoys.
So it is not only HMRC that is short-changed, but also the estranged wife and dependents who are well and truly “stuffed”…allowing the EBT “beneficiary” to escape all moral and financial commitments to his family.
PS please believe me re the implications of these allegations, since I know that I inherited such a scheme from a former “professional” firm’s client base…but managed to “disengage” the client…deo gratias!
With regard to our “Rangers” supporting chums on this board,some of my closest friends follow the same “club” and I have known these guys from primary one. That’s right, I’m a non Catholic Celtic supporter, who went to a Non Dom (Proddy) school, all of my life.
It’s no big deal and of course there are many like me. Now, my friends are civilised( fortunately) and we met for a few beers last night & chewed the fat about football in general. The tortured semantics of the various correspondents on here, is not for them. Neither do they hide behind legalese minutiae, hoping to prove that what was gone, is suddenly & divinely resurrected, probably because two of them run small businesses and understand company law.
Instead, there is a quiet, but pained recognition that the club they supported from primary school is in the process of being liquidated, and the cause of this disaster, lies at the feet of SDM and his voodoo economics, which ran it into the ground and to which the last rites were given.
However, they are and remain passionate blue noses to the extent and despite my best advice, both purchased shares in the Charles Green “We are the World” version, in addition to season tickets from day one after the Event Horizon…..they felt a sense of loyalty to their club 😮
And so my point is this. There are sensible and civilised followers of that club out there, who know the truth and are willing to acknowledge and admit it, however painful it maybe. Many, like my friends, have lost serious amounts of money, but they are ordinary football fans, who just wish to watch their team on a Saturday. I know it seems at times like looking for a diamond in the rust, when all we seem to communicate with, are the party activists and zealots on here and in other places.
But I hold out hope that one day, we can communicate with such TRFC fans in a constructive and positive way, but it’s a long road ahead I fear 😐
I still don’t really understand this insurance thing.
I can understand a club taking out insurance in case a player is unable to play and they still have to pay his wages. Fair enough.
However the situation we are talking about is a player being unable to play and Rangers trying to take out insurance in case the player cannot get a loan from a third party, at that third parties discretion, and outwith the control of either Rangers or the player.
How would one word such a policy.
In my opinion, just that. If the payments into the EBT were performance based (bonuses) then the player either earned that bonus or they didn’t. If they earned that bonus they did it through playing and meeting whatever target the bonus was based on. If they didn’t then the payment into their sub trust was not required.
Therefore there is no need for any insurance. If the player is unable to play then they simply don’t get that bonus.
Or do people think that the EBT payments were part of the basic salary.
Question for you all.
Who will we see first in December ,Santa or CO.I know who my monies on.
FIFA
Depends on tomorrow’s draw 😉
An injured footballer is only interested in getting his agreed wage, it matters not to him whether it comes as a result of an insurance payment, or a whip round in the boardroom.
If, say, half a players wage has been paid by EBT, he has no worries about getting that portion of his wage. I suspect his genuine salary payment will go through as usual, with his club (Rangers) making a claim against the insurance policy, probably a block policy covering all, or a number, of players, for the legitimate salary. If David Murray had any sense he’d have foregone the amount relating to the EBT portion of the player’s salary and written it off as an expense of his scheme. I don’t think the insurance policy question is a real problem to the ex directors or players of RFC(IL), though the reduced level of fines, and things like divorce settlements, might hold more than a passing problem – if ever investigated.
There is, of course, the possibility RFC took out additional policies, to cover the EBT amounts, through their friends in the Channel Islands. There’s all sorts of funny things those guys can do! And insurance companies all over the word only too pleased to oblige – as long as the premium is right, of course.
I’m not entirely comfortable with a debate that has an emphasis on how Irish/Northern Irish either of the two big Glasgow clubs are.
After so many years both should be essentially Scottish clubs.
So why after all this time are both clubs putting on such a demonstration of non-Scottish flags? Being pro-Scottish is not being anti-Irish. Of the more than 20 big-ish flags among the Celtic support in Borås more than half were the green, white, and gold. Pretty flags, and I’ve been educated on here and RTC as to the significance of the colours. There were also several club flags, a couple of Swedish, a few assorted, but only one flag (Blantyre CSC) with anything that I could recognise as representing the country Celtic actually play in and represent in Europe. Only one.
I’ve said it a few times, Celtic now have a unique opportunity to become the pre-eminent Scottish club on the field and off it. Anyone who has seen the video of a certain club’s fans’ views on the indyref will know why.
As an aside, by 1988, I had been living as an immigrant in Scandinavia for a number of years. By 2113, will my children’s, children’s, children have any interest in my Scottish origins? I very much doubt it. There’s no guarantee they will live here, but if they do, I doubt they will be anything other than 100% integrated into this society, and that would be my wish for them — looking to the future, not the past.
I say again.
I am Scottish as were my parents. However that does not mean I will deny my Irish heritage. My grandparents were all born in Ireland, why would I have any issue with who they were and who I come from.
The two are not mutually exclusive to me.
People like the Americans and Canadians don’t seem to have any issue with this. They are proud of their French, Scottish, Italian, Irish, Polish, Dutch, German or whatever else heritage. They are proud Americans / Canadians, who are also proud of where they come from.
Why should we be any different. Why should we have to decide it is one or the other.
Tif Finn says: (932)
December 1, 2013 at 9:36 pm
We don’t…
Indeed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football
Tif Finn says: (931)
December 1, 2013 at 8:22
Re Rangers support and NI thing, as pointed out this all happened apparently with the influx of personnel and management from NI who came to work in the Clyde shipyards and brought their sectarian employment policy. Rangers being based locally became their team and their influence grew. Also appreciate that immigration from Ireland at that time was a very hot topic. “In 1923, the Church of Scotland produced a highly controversial (and since repudiated) report entitled The Menace of the Irish Race to our Scottish Nationality. It accused the largely immigrant Roman Catholic population of subverting Presbyterian values and of causing drunkenness, crime, and financial imprudence.”
Compare that to where we are today with certain political parties worried about immigration, not just in Scotland but throughout Europe.
The influence of a national group over a local team is something I doubt could happen now. Although I’m sure that if for example there was a very large single industry such as a steel works say in Dumfries that attracted workers from Poland I have no doubt QofS would become their club. Will the influence of an Asian owner at Cardiff attract supporters from that community !
I’ve always found it strange that the ‘English Irish’ have no real interest in their heritage.
I’ve a few friends from Birmingham who would favour the deid club rather than Celtic given the choice.
Cygnus X-1 says
Spot on the Money.
I know and I suspect most on this blog know quite a number of really decent RFC fans..
They think ..’we feel we are being lied to constantly .by every last one of them … pretenders CEOs chairmen on and on and on ..we don’t know who to believe anymore …Ally is an overpaid balloon who has ripped us off etc ..we just want to watch football at Ibrox…every Saturday ‘
they really do know who is to blame here they really do ..they want to believe the myth .and some of them still cling to it .but in their heart of hearts ..they really do know the truth
.they would love a clean break ..but …they just hate the CFC crowd laying it on thick to them
Problem also is the wilder and low life WATP element who bully them all incessantly ..
I think all of Scottish football would really have no issues with ..not sure of the numbers but i suspect it genuinely is tens of thousands of normal RFC fans ( not necessarily the ones attending just now ) admitting the horrors of the past and working their club sensibly and gradually back to the top accepting what comes their way in punishments UTT tribunals etcetc titles stripped etcetc …BUT ..if the non stop sectarian singing element emanating eg from Falkirk etc continues to dominate their club …just forget it ..no chance !
That is the big issue …how do the club leaders and the press stop pandering to the WATP crew ..alienate them and let the decent folks come to the fore ?…big big Challenge !..not sure they will ever fix it..and if the recent public meeting and Gordon Smith’s alleged performance etc is anything to go by ..heaven help them ..it just won’t happen and they are doomed
Cygnus..like you I fear it is a long long road…Our authorities i fear are just not prepared to take the bully boys on
Thanks tic/Eco, it’s been coming for some time, and TSFM may have a point about my difficulty in rising above it, I’m done, u have mail.
Bill1903 says: (28)
December 1, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Just by way of contrast, I have lived in England since 1993 and my experience could not be more different from yours.
Esteban says: (44)
December 1, 2013 at 9:54 pm
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Bill1903 says: (28)
December 1, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Just by way of contrast, I have lived in England since 1993 and my experience could not be more different from yours.
———————————
I’ve lived here since the mid 80’s
I’ve also got Scottish friends with kids who consider themselves English and have no interest in their parents homeland.
Thankfully my two Anglos are card carrying,chip on shoulder,Scotland fans
Tailothebank says: (56)
December 1, 2013 at 9:49 pm
1 0 Rate This
————
Great posts @Cygnus X-1 and @TailotB
Once again it comes back to the SFA and league bodies. The singing could be stopped within weeks via points deductions and/or dishing out closed-door match punishments. This would isolate the troublemakers and maybe give the proper fans, who’ve given up on Ibrox, a chance to return to sane terraces and take the place out of the hands of the political zealots who now define TRFC.
A clear statement also needs to come from the board too — threatening lifetime bans for fans engaged in sectarian singing.
Will it happen? Probably not.
Bill1903 says: (29)
December 1, 2013 at 9:45 pm
I’ve always found it strange that the ‘English Irish’ have no real interest in their heritage.
I’ve a few friends from Birmingham who would favour the deid club rather than Celtic given the choice.
===
Went through the re-registering process. Used to be partizan (Hmm, still am I suppose). Lived in London 20=odd years ago for a few years, and found the Irish-English to be overwhelmingly Celtic supporting.
Of course this could reflect the pubs I was drinking in. But my friends and i used to comment on how the youngsters playing pool, with English accents and Irish names, were overwhelmingly Irish nationalistic.
Tif Finn says: (931)
December 1, 2013 at 8:22 pm
4 0 Rate This
On Rangers history.
I was under the impression that the club was originally formed by 4 Scots. I’m not really sure where the links to Northern Ireland came from. Again I was under the impression that it was the people coming over from there who decided to take it on as their team, and made it the “protestant” club.
I am quite happy to be corrected on this, like I said it is just things I have picked up along the way and could easily be nonsense.
———————————————————–
Like you TF I am unsure of this but piecing togther bits of the story, my understanding is that in the 20’s there was an influx of Belfast shipyard workers who arrived in Glasgow, the then ‘second city of empire’. They quickly sought like minded company already established in the culture of Scotland including the virulently anti catholic orange order, and they began frequenting Ibrox. At first, it was one section of one stand, then it grew into a whole stand then the entire fan base became affected by the presence. The defference to the monarch, the empire and the vilification of all its enemies appealed to the emerging Struthian regime at Ibrox and so the character of the club changed direction, seeking to tap into the rampant patriotism and nationalism of the age. Following the Casement debacle, the Irish uprising and then the civil war hardening attitudes to the ‘Irish question’ Rangers emerged as a touchstone for various potent forces present in the culture of the industrial Scotland…….and when it came to the establishment…..they were pushing at an open door!
Bill1903 says: (29)
December 1, 2013 at 10:02 pm
I’m not doubting you, I’m just saying my experience of people in England from an Irish background is different.
So having managed to re-register. Had to change name and password but avatar came across?
Some thoughts.
Some posters have postulated that when Sevco go under we will be able to demonstrate that they are are a new club by the points that are deducted. Is it the first administration event or the second? I don’t agree. The con has been allowed to go on so long that the cry will just go up, it;s the first administration that this company has had. Sure the club has had a couple, but this is about the company. Oh no, the club has never been in administration, must be the company, oh wait….
Whatever happens the the Rangers will be shunted forward.
If the whole thing came down to anything near rules and regulations then I’d have hope for Scottish football. Yes I know rules and regulations have been ignored up til now. But the only thing that keeps me going is that the team forced upon us last year cant keep going financially. Others have descibed that much more elequently than I could.
If the the Rangers manage to survive another couple of years only then will Uefa be forced to publish a co-efficient. Much more likely they will catch a bus to Cathkin.
Re: cultural significance of the Govan club.
====================================
IMO, I think it’s quite simple – relative to the real issues in everyday life / the world.
TRFC is just a crappy football team – and the majority of their support is either wilfully ignorant or has a mindset stuck in the 17th century.
And ‘at the end of the day’ it’s just about chasing a football around a grass – or partially melted plastic – field. 🙄
Stevie BC,
I’ve stayed out of the discussion today on irish roots as I have no knowledge of the subject, although I will admit to a little disappointment that the game cannot shake off those links that seem to cause the problem.
Can’t let SBC’s comment go past though. “TRFC are just a crappy football team” No they’re not, nor were RFC(IL) before them. They had an uncanny knack of winning stuff, quite often if some of our posters are to be believed, whether that was the 4th div or the SPL. Turns out that latterly that they were getting by with a little help from their friends to quote Lennon and Macartney. But they were winning. And a large proportion of their support was/is based on that. Call them glory hunters, call them supremacists the point is they sound pretty silly singing about supremacy if they’re getting beat. But they’re not. Not yet.
One of the above will appear at the cup draw tomorrow. He should have a red face and say “Ho, Ho, Ho” but will actually have a brass neck and be thinking “Dough, dough, dough”.
TSFM says: (562)
December 1, 2013 at 12:07 pm
“I think any club could try make a case for “cultural significance”. I also think they woud fail. I don’t agree that just to be a football club – even one that won more honours than any other – qualifies as a unique cultural significance….”
I agree. I cited Rangers cultural significance to Scotland as being one of the two foremost and most popular competing clubs within the national sport of Football, but according to that priniciple every club has some degree of cultural significance within their community. As you point out, the Old Firm fan base is on a national scale so that sets them aside somewhat in quantity, if not quality. I wouldn’t try to make any further claims about their significance with regards politics (unionism) or religion etc. For example if you took Rangers out of the equation, would the support for a ‘no’ vote nose-dive? I doubt it to be honest.
I’ve always been an observer to the whole loyalist/unionist/protestant element, none of them were a part of my upbringing as a Rangers supporter in southern england. I’ve lived in Scotland for 10 years now and am fully aware of that side of things and have come to understand it, if not sympathise with it – I’m still an atheist, still don’t care much about the political future of northern ireland, although being brought up in england as a scot, and then living in Scotland as an englishman, a be twixt and between feeling of ‘Britishness’ tends to be the end result where national identity is concerned!
The fate of Rangers loyalist/unionist/protestant culture is in doubt as far as I’m concerned, as all elements seem to be under siege in some respect or another. In the 10 years I’ve been attending matches, certain chants have faded away to almost zero, and I don’t see the process reversing. I’d suspect fans from the other side would notice similar changes to the “songbook” over a generation. Yet the popularity of football as a sport remains undiminished, the fan base is – from my experience and the evidence of continuing high attendances over the last 30 years – evolving rather than dying away with some of the old ways. If a future of merely being a hugely successful football team, with only small remants of the cultural aspects remaining, is what awaits Rangers Football Club, that’ll suit me fine enough.
Galling Fiver.
PM.
All the best mate.
manandboy says: (342)
November 30, 2013 at 5:37 pm
GeronimosCadillac says: (106)
November 30, 2013 at 3:07 pm
4 0 Rate This
manandboy says: (337)
November 30, 2013 at 2:56 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I suspect you know the answer is that they are held to be an institution that defends the faith, Union and monarchy. Because these ideas are national ones they have a wider cultural significance than Dunfermline. Dunfermline have a cultural significance but it doesn’t reach out much beyond Fife.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
GC, My question is genuine and the ‘Faith, Union and Monarchy’ is a ‘motto’ I haven’t come across before in a Scottish context, or anywhere for that matter, so thank you for that.
But, culturally ? Hmmmm.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For clarity – I’m not in any way agreeing that they are a credible insitution because I would like to see them closed tomorrow. I see enough evidence where I live to note the cultural significance of Rangers to many of the lumpen elements. The non lumpen elements are cleverer and less obvious with their true leanings – one only has to consider the utterings of Malcolm Murray to know you don’t have to dig too deep under the skin to reveal the adherence to the same cultural values.
bryce9a says: (63) December 2, 2013 at 12:08 am
” If a future of merely being a hugely successful football team, competing for national honours and within european competition, is what awaits Rangers Football Club, that’ll suit me absolutely fine :-)”
_________________________________________________________________________________________
b9a Be honest now – do you sometimes dwell on winning big on the Lottery.
It would be great, wouldn’t it.
Able to buy almost anything – the stuff of dreams.
For Rangers Football Club to become as you describe above,
they’ll have to rise from the dead first.
And that’s not going to happen, now is it?
As for Sevco, with one foot in the grave,
I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
Buy a Lottery ticket instead,
you’ll have a better chance of your dream coming true.
Brenda says: (719)
December 1, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Sevco directors are reportedly ‘embarrassed’ by their supporters who who burned part if the Falkirk pitch yesterday with a flare!!!!… Don’t know whether I’m more puzzled by the fact that they’re admitting wrong-doing by the peepil or that it is actually being reported in the msm. Attention Mr Lunny 😉
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m against plastic pitches but I do not advocate they should be burned.
GeronimosCadillac says: (108)
December 2, 2013 at 12:53 am
________________________________
I’m not sure they would burn as such? More likely to smoulder and melt whilst giving off black noxious fumes…
It’s ok, I’ve got my coat…!
I am alerted to the fact that Chick Young was bemoaning Celtic’s victory against Hearts yesterday as ‘bad for Scottish football’. It is a theme I expect to hear more of in the next few days, unless the dreaded tie comes out of the hat at today’s cup draw. Was Scottish football better when clubs like Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Motherwell, Livingston etc paid way above what they should and their creditors suffered along the way? We are now at a point where every club except one is trying to live within its means. Even the one who isn’t may eventually be forced to. That of course means there will be occasions where the club with more resources records victories of the type witnessed yesterday. It was still one goal less than Stenhousemuir shipped at Ibrox earlier this season. I don’t recall a single whimper about that result being bad for Scottish football. In fact I recall it being a day where Chick Young probably broke the record for saying the word ‘outstanding’ most times over a 90 minute period.
I really have to ask why the BBC are using everyone’s money to pay (in some cases) such blatantly biased pundits.
Monday morning and the start of another working week.
another 5 days in which Messrs Regan & Ogilvie
can continue their transformation into complete invisibility.
No wait, first, theirs a Cup draw to rig.
I’ll just go get my thermal imaging camera.
upthehoops on December 2, 2013 at 7:17 am
18 1 Rate This
“I am alerted to the fact that Chick Young was bemoaning Celtic’s victory against Hearts yesterday as ‘bad for Scottish football’. It is a theme I expect to hear more of in the next few days, unless the dreaded tie comes out of the hat at today’s cup draw. Was Scottish football better when clubs like Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Motherwell, Livingston etc paid way above what they should and their creditors suffered along the way? We are now at a point where every club except one is trying to live within its means. Even the one who isn’t may eventually be forced to. That of course means there will be occasions where the club with more resources records victories of the type witnessed yesterday.
I really have to ask why the BBC are using everyone’s money to pay (in some cases) such blatantly biased pundits.”
I would agree that most pundits are biased buffoons but most are old firm pandering to both sides. The financial divide in Scottish football is dire for the game but is continued by swathes of gloryseekers trotting off to Ibrox and parkhead rather than watching their local team, or more likely, turning on sky to get their weekly pro OF TV game. Until such a time as that changes, Scottish football will remain in the doldrums.
To whinge over the supposed preference of the BBC or whoever to one or other side of the OF is so blinkered and West-Coast naive as to loose the bigger blight affecting Scottish football.
I wish a new piece of entertainment would come out of Ibrox soon to grab everyone’s attention and get us away from all this Irish talk.
Some of the posts on here are beginning to flirt with the “sectarian” line in the sand, and will do nothing in the wider bampot world to dispel the “Timmy blog” attitude towards TSFM.
HEADLINE:
Celtic star Kris Commons reveals he’d love a crack at Rangers in the Scottish Cup
BACKGROUND:
Commons helped his side thrash the Jambos at Tynecastle then sets his sights on an Old Firm Cup draw and gunning down his club’s Glasgow rivals
QUOTE:
“I would fancy playing Rangers any time. They’re fantastic games, awesome, not just for fans and players but the media as well
—————————-
Nice bit of media spin and just as predicted yesterday, the headline would imply Commons came out after the game with a big smile on his face as now they had a chance of drawing Rangers in the next round. In all probability, he was simply asked if he would like to be drawn against Rangers in the next round……..
Madbhoy24941 says: (321)
December 2, 2013 at 8:27 am
1 0 Rate This
HEADLINE:
Celtic star Kris Commons reveals he’d love a crack at Rangers in the Scottish Cup
BACKGROUND:
Commons helped his side thrash the Jambos at Tynecastle then sets his sights on an Old Firm Cup draw and gunning down his club’s Glasgow rivals
QUOTE:
“I would fancy playing Rangers any time. They’re fantastic games, awesome, not just for fans and players but the media as well
—————————-
Nice bit of media spin and just as predicted yesterday, the headline would imply Commons came out after the game with a big smile on his face as now they had a chance of drawing Rangers in the next round. In all probability, he was simply asked if he would like to be drawn against Rangers in the next round……..
=================
Were they not referred to as the ”team from ibrox”
I’m sure kriss is aware that they are really ”rory bremner fc”
Oh what a dilema for CO today.
Do we “draw” them now as the clumpany desperately need money ASAP
or do we go for the “new firm” fixture as the grand finale???????
Decisions, decisions….the stress of it all.
Surely the best administrator in the world can deal with the pressure and make the right decision 😆
upthehoops says: (690)
December 2, 2013 at 7:17 am
I, and I suspect most Hearts supporters, do not welcome Chick Young’s sympathy, if that was what it was. This type of hammering was bound to come along at some point for a side full of youngsters, and that’s no one’s fault other than Hearts. To be honest, I expected it to happen sooner and have been a bit relieved, up until yesterday, that Hearts’ defeats have not been by more than two goals. These young lads, and three remaining over 21s, have done a great job, but eventually lack of experience, and a team on the field brim-full of experience with superior ability, and hitting form, were bound to take them apart. That it was a side capable, on their day, of doing that to almost any other side in the league makes it a little easier to take (at least for me).
Chick Young is a bitter wee idiot. His sympathy is not with Hearts, not even with Scottish football. His sympathy is for his side, the one he still considers to be Rangers. They had a good Scottish Cup win on Saturday, beating a good, young, side. On Sunday Celtic stole his teams thunder, cue sour grapes.
A half decent journalist would be emphasising that it was a salutary lesson to those who would over-spend in pursuit of success, and that it is the Hearts, Rangers and sundry others that have caused their own downfall, and any resultant gulf between Celtic and the rest. Celtic have managed their house extremely well and are now reaping the benefit, and others have done so on a smaller scale, and they too are reaping the benefit, though also on a smaller scale.
Should Chick get his wish and see TRFC make their way to the top two, and a gulf appear between them and the rest, I expect he will forget all about what’s best for Scottish football as he will consider it to have arrived; or be advocating that, what he will call the Old Firm, move to England, and sod what’s best for the rest!
Madbhoy24941 says: (321)
December 2, 2013 at 8:27 am
I’m sure that most of the Celtic team would love to play TRFC in the next round, and give them the kind of humping they gave Hearts. The question would be, would Celtic be more embarrassed if they didn’t put seven passed them, than they (TRFC) would be if they did? While the extra revenue might keep TRFC going a little longer, the result might do them everlasting damage.
Palacio67 says: (228)
December 1, 2013 at 2:08 pm
104
0
Rate This
Just speculating…
If Celtic are drawn at home against an upstart tier team with no history of achievement beyond winning the 4th tier, how many tickets will they need to make available to the away team’s fans?
Allyjambo says: (681)
December 2, 2013 at 9:19 am
________________________
At the risk of sounding like one of sir bartin’s backslappers, excellent post AJ
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ptd1978 @ 9:57
A world record amount no doubt… 🙄 :slamb:
ptd1978 says: (105)
December 2, 2013 at 9:57 am
—
Isn’t the answer ‘none’? I mean, are Sevco not boycotting all the big bad clubs that foiled their cunning plan to phoenix themselves into the SPL?
Tic 6709 says: (566)
December 1, 2013 at 11:48 am
15 0 Rate This
Para Handy says: (15)
December 1, 2013 at 11:42 am
=======================
Good to see you’ve docked again.
==========================
Thanks Tic, Sonny Jim had us on a wild goose chase looking for a wee budgie to replace his weans one before he knew it was deid…
🙂
A thoughts on the posts on Irish/Scots etc:
This discussion area is a minefield where harsh disagreement mines are stood on frequently, sometimes with explosive results in the webosphere.
Often debate and argument can arise because one side means something in a cultural heritage sense and the other takes it in a geographical or geopolitical sense, or vice versa. Clarity of meaning is needed at all times.
I have attempted ham-fisted explanations to my teenage kids of what it means when you wave a flag, for example. There are a number of reasons why and contexts in which any given flag could be waved, and its not just because you come from that country geographically.
I am in a quandry. My 8 year old grandson has expressed a wish to go to the Ramsdens cup final to see his team Raith Rovers. I myself will be attending the match but having witnessed first hand the favoured repertoire of the opposition fans I am unsure whether or not I wish to subject the youngster to 90 minutes of bile. His father is a big Celtic fan and though he is happy that his son supports the Rovers he is in no doubt that the boy isn’t going to the Cup final for that very reason. Decisions, decisions.
I see Keith Jackson is now a big Paul Murray fan.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/keith-jackson-ibrox-whistleblowers-must-2874396?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Keith Jackson: Ibrox whistleblowers must break cover and speak out before agm
KEITH reckons Rangers fans should remember that Paul Murray has always had the best interests of the club at heart ahead of agm on December 19.
AFFAIRS of the heart can be complicated things.
There must have been times over the last two and half years, for example, when Paul Murray will have wondered why he bothers.
When loving his club may have become altogether just too bruising. When negotiating his way around this unrelenting Rangers saga must have exhausted him. As if he was playing five-dimensional chess.
Trying to disseminate the filthy lies of the Craig Whyte takeover, see through all those murky, multi-million pound deceptions, get his head around the shameful cheating of the public purse and then suffer the eventual agony of watching his club being tipped over a financial abyss.
It must have messed as much with his head as with his emotions.
From day one Murray cried foul but found hardly anyone who was willing to listen.
He was denounced as a trouble- maker, derided as a fantasist and turned upon by Rangers fans who had no wish to be confronted by such unpalatable truths.
That kind of brutal abuse would have been enough to make most walk away.
But when Murray’s nightmare scenario actually became reality and Whyte called in the administrators on February 14 last year he summoned up the will to keep on fighting.
Then when his Blue Knights were blocked by Duff and Phelps from saving the club from Whyte’s clutches, Murray was savaged again for allowing his consortium to be trumped by Charles Green who had appeared on the scene at the very last minute, as if from nowhere.
The rancid stench from that closed-shop sale – and the crescendo of criticism which came his way after – should have been enough to sicken Murray for life.
He was humiliated. His credibility called into question by the very supporters he was trying to help.
Many thousands of them hailed Green as some sort of gruff- talking, big-handed messiah. Perhaps they know better now because, finally, after all this time the fog of confusion around this Rangers debacle is beginning to lift.
At last, Murray’s place in all of this is becoming clear. In fact, with little more than two weeks to go before the long-awaited and defining agm, it has never been so straightforward.
On December 19 he will either be voted on to the board or he will not.
The club’s shareholders must now decide if they trust Murray and his fellow rebels Malcolm Murray, Scott Murdoch and Alex Wilson – or if Rangers would be safer left in other hands (be they big Yorkshire ones or otherwise).
Perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight, now would be an ideal moment for some reflection on Murray’s role in all of this.
They say you can judge the calibre of a man by the company he keeps.
In Murray’s case, perhaps it’s even more pertinent to consider the enemies he has made over the last two and a bit years.
Let’s start with Whyte, Duff and Phelps, David Grier, Green, Imran Ahmad, Craig Mather and Brian Stockbridge.
None of them has a good word to say about Murray. Which might be his biggest single validation of all. This is the definitive Who’s Who of the bogeymen in this unrelenting Rangers narrative.
With that in mind, it is interesting to note Murray has expressed support for the club’s new chief executive Graham Wallace, whose appointment has been broadly welcomed by all sides.
But while it is entirely possible that these two – and new non-executive director Norman Crighton – might yet find common ground, Murray has beaten most of the rest of them into retreat if not entirely into submission.
Now two men are fixed firmly in his sights – Stockbridge and the PR consultant who helped bring about this whole collapse by acting in the interests of his client Whyte.
Or, if you prefer, the onset of the Cuban Heeled Crisis.
Last week it was alleged publicly by Murray’s team that this master of the dark arts is currently being paid £40k a month to spin on behalf of the Rangers board, with another £100k bonus to come for a favourable result at the agm.
The man himself denied these figures on Twitter but declined numerous invitations to clear the whole issue up by declaring his real bottom line.
There is no doubt whatsoever, though, that his company has been handsomely rewarded by the Whytes, Greens and Ahmads.
As a result, at one time or another some or maybe even all of these characters have enjoyed a certain amount of backing. But at no point did they receive Murray’s.
That’s chiefly because their priorities clashed directly with his. While they have all sought to exploit Rangers for financial gain, Murray’s motivation has always been to protect the club.
Perhaps understandably, even now there will be Rangers supporters out there who cannot take to Murray, possibly because they think he has brought their club nothing but trouble.
Perhaps, though, it is time for them to stop and think about why Murray bothered.
Maybe now, in retrospect, they may wish they too had done more to stand up against this cast of opportunists and mercenaries.
Murray bothered because of his love for Rangers and his deep-rooted determination to do the right thing.
The rest? They have dipped in and out of this long-running debacle with the common goal of getting out with as much of the club’s money as they could stuff into their pockets.
He clashed with all of them because his good intentions jarred with their greed.
There are other central figures around this story who, with good reason, have lacked the courage to speak out in public about what they have known to be going on behind the scenes. Some of them have secretly reached out to Murray from within the heart of Ibrox and pleaded with him to continue his pursuit of the truth.
Maybe one day soon these people will find their voices but, then again, some of them have been placed under enormous levels of intimidation, like the former senior employee who reported Rangers to the Serious Fraud Office earlier this year – offering information on alleged irregularities around last December’s £22m IPO.
In an ideal world, this individual and others who are far more familiar to the Rangers support, will break cover and tell all before the shareholders go the vote.
After all, a great deal more than just Paul Murray’s reputation is about to go on the line.
Ok ,tell me ,is it Santa Ogilvie or Campbell Claus thats doing the draw today ,with the little elves in the background [security purposes]
If you can be bothered reading that piece by Keith Jackson I’m sure you will agree it is anything but journalism.
It is nothing but propaganda supporting one side in the battle to take control of a PLC. It sings the praises of that side, whilst at the same team demonizing their opponents.
The funny thing is that he accuses someone else of spin.
Do you think he does irony.
Carl31 says: (105)
December 2, 2013 at 10:52 am
I have attempted ham-fisted explanations to my teenage kids of what it means when you wave a flag, for example. There are a number of reasons why and contexts in which any given flag could be waved, and its not just because you come from that country geographically.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Which is why the only flag you need at a football match is the one that has your team’s colour and logo on it.
The reason you are there are is to support the 11 guys on the park win a sporting event.
If you are there for anything else then my question would be – why?
Football in particular and some other sports get hi-jacked for other purposes far too often for my liking.
Tif Finn says: (935)
December 2, 2013 at 11:16 am
Started to read it but it was just so much bilge. A poor attempt at a recovery from the disaster that was the forum. Just like the forum, though, big on how bad the bad boys were, while steering clear of the bad boy in chief, but nothing more to offer other than Paul Murray’s a very nice chap. Oh yeh, and missing out on his list of failures.
wottpi says: (1299)
December 2, 2013 at 11:22 am
Here, here!
David Leggat (a twisted mentalist) on why Jim McColl may have backed off.
http://davidleggat-leggoland.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-threats-to-jim-mccoll.html
Monday, 2 December 2013
THE THREATS TO JIM McCOLL
JIM McCOLL’S revelation of sinister threats, when he spoke to last week’s meeting of Rangers supporters, told only half of the story.
Now I can reveal more. More of the shocking, shady and deeply worrying things that have been going on in the background since the Requisition was first moved on August 2nd.
I can reveal McColl admitted that he had been the recipient of two phone calls from two northern English cities. McColl admitted this at a meeting I and a dozen or so others attended at his Clyde Blowers headquarters in East Kilbride in mid-September.
His revelations that day about those deeply disturbing phone calls came in the wake of the news that Frank Blin, the City big hitter who McColl and Paul Murray had lined up to become financial director, had withdrawn from the campaign to change the board.
And that, in turn, followed a public statement by the then newly appointed board spin doctor, Jack Irvine, that McColl and Blin and the others should be warned that they were now fair game. Many took that to mean Irvine would be behind a dirty tricks campaign.
Certainly there were plenty of red herrings planted by Jack Irvine in the Press concerning whether or not Paul Murray would pass the Scottish Football Association’s fit and proper person test – he will – and claiming Dave King would not be acceptable to either the London Stock Exchange or the SFA, disgracefully inaccurate allegations which King blew out of the water.
It is interesting to note that since King’s visit, Jack Irvine has not mentioned Dave King’s name again.
But now, newly appointed chairman David Somers has taken up the cry that Paul and Malcolm Murray, along with the other two Nominees, Alex Wilson and Scott Murdoch, men of the highest integrity and probity, men whose credentials are above reproach, may fail any Stock Market and SFA tests. Somers has put his name to this scaremongering in the official Notice of Annual General Meeting document, signed by him on November 25th and sent to all shareholders.
Entirely separate from that, Jim McColl then followed Blin in withdrawing from the campaign, sparking suspicions by those who he told about those initial phone threats, that he may have been subjected to further outside pressure.
McColl seemed reluctant to discuss the threats in great detail after the meeting with fans on Thursday night, though Friday’s newspapers carried the statement he made to the supporters’ meeting which touched on them. That was the first time the threats which McColl told me about in September, entered the public domain.
But at the midday meeting in the Clyde Blowers boardroom on September 13th, which I attended, when the news of the threats was first revealed, McColl was much more candid.
He revealed that he had taken two telephone calls – one from someone in Manchester and one from someone in Leeds – and that he was advised by both callers that it would be better for him if he stepped back from the whole affair and took no further part in the campaign to oust the board.
McColl assured us all that he would not be put off and for the next 10 weeks he was as good as his word. Then, after the meeting with supporters last week, Jim McColl announced he would play no further part in the campaign by the four Nominees to win seats on the Ibrox board.
Now McColl has followed Frank Blin and left the fight and he made that announcement on the very night that Paul Murray was able to lift the lid on the influence the disgraced Charles Green is still exerting with shareholders in the background and the power Green continues to exert over those with a stake in Rangers.
With that Charles Green active influence now known to extend to more than merely handing the proxy for his shares to the Easdales, the spectre of money-grabbing, greedy Green and his power, now hovers over the Annual General Meeting.
One of the great things about this blog has been the opportunity to hear views from across the country, something which the SMSM has completely failed to do.
As a result I have had my eyes opened to the fantastic work that these clubs do in their communities and seen how deeply their fans are committed to them.
For the first time I genuinely have a sense of caring about the welfare of other clubs and not just my own team. We really do need a strong Arbroath – (c) acknowledged.
I watched the Hearts – Celtic game yesterday and although I was really pleased with the quality of some of the footie, and I am glad my team won – I did not get any sense of pleasure in the scoreline. Part of that is from having got to know the Jambos that post here and who have been dignity personified in their response to the calamity that has befallen their club.
AllyJambo @ 9.19am today – takes a big man to post like that in these circumstances. Hat off to you.
I really hope you guys make it out of the situation you are currently in. I also hope the young guys that were on the pitch yesterday come back stronger and are there for you in better days to come.
PS. Went to the local park on Saturday with my wee boy (4 years old) and we ended up watching a couple of primary school teams playing each other. The football was both comical and really engaging, but the best thing for me was the way the two teams lined up to shake hands after the final whistle. It is a great tradition in rugby and I wish that it could be brought into football.
A blog of squirrels, dead squirrels, ancient historical squirrels of late!
Eyes well off the ball.
Regan Doncaster and Ogilvie remain in situ, the fix remains in and all remain tied to the version of events rather than the truth. Well done to Aberdeen fans for reminding us of this fact!
The SMSM :slamb: have hunted down their own super big squirrel of the imagination re a Celtic Rangers cup tie and the associated tosh.
Meanwhile at Ibrox more Rangersness sufferers talk kach to the faithful with no hope of any future as the spivs run away with the last of the pennies.
To quote Kate Bush : December will be magic again…. 🙂
Partizani Tirana says: (13)
December 1, 2013 at 10:51 pm
Some posters have postulated that when Sevco go under we will be able to demonstrate that they are are a new club by the points that are deducted. Is it the first administration event or the second? I don’t agree. The con has been allowed to go on so long that the cry will just go up, it;s the first administration that this company has had. Sure the club has had a couple, but this is about the company. Oh no, the club has never been in administration, must be the company, oh wait….
For me the rules are clear-cut in this respect.
Although it is an anathema to the majority of posters here, the fact is that the SPFL rules distinguish between the the football club (ie. Rangers Football Club) and the company (owner & operator) that is the legal representative of that club (TRFC Ltd).
Despite being, since 2012, under the control of a new owner and operator as the rules define it, the rules accommodate for this …
Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member [the legal entity is the member], suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event…. and within 5 years… is subject to a further Insolvency Event…the points deduction applicable… shall be 25 Points.
It seems clear that Rangers will receive a 25 point penalty if newco, or the PLC controlling newco, go into administration. Hopefully from my perspective, such solid evidence of my position regarding Rangers’ status in terms of the rules will not fall into my lap – really wouldn’t be worth it! (although the club = Rangers, company = oldco/newco distinction within the rules was established beyond doubt by LNS anyway)
Smugas says: (585)
December 1, 2013 at 11:25 pm
9 13 i
Stevie BC,
I’ve stayed out of the discussion today on irish roots as I have no knowledge of the subject, although I will admit to a little disappointment that the game cannot shake off those links that seem to cause the problem.
Can’t let SBC’s comment go past though. “TRFC are just a crappy football team” No they’re not, nor were RFC(IL) before them. They had an uncanny knack of winning stuff, quite often if some of our posters are to be believed, whether that was the 4th div or the SPL. Turns out that latterly that they were getting by with a little help from their friends to quote Lennon and Macartney. But they were winning. And a large proportion of their support was/is based on that. Call them glory hunters, call them supremacists the point is they sound pretty silly singing about supremacy if they’re getting beat. But they’re not. Not yet.
=========================
Genuinely interested in my thumbs down here when normally I don’t pay them any heed whatsoever. My main point was simply to suggest that, partly in response to Bryce and others description of the RFC roots extending far and wide, that that may be in part due simply to the fact that they were winning. High profile and winning. If I may paraphrase the protagonists it went something like “an element of our support in every village” or some such. I agree. Anyone who pays any heed to the Tshirts the kids wear in said villages would be forced to agree as well. An extension of loyalist, protestant, royalist culture? Or just the fact they are on the tele winning stuff?
If I’m wrong by the way then the catalonians, the mancunians (now both sides) and certain areas of London (blue strips all seem to be turning into red and white this season) have a helluva political support in auchenshoogle.
Tif Finn says: (936)
December 2, 2013 at 11:35 am
David Leggat :
…the spectre of money-grabbing, greedy Green and his power, now hovers over the Annual General Meeting.
and
iceman63 says: (309)
December 2, 2013 at 11:55 am
To quote Kate Bush : December will be magic again…. 🙂
——————————————————————————
Any chance of another Charles Green Christmas special message this year do you think? Forget the Queen’s speech, forget Bing Crosby, or the Rev IM Jolly at New Year, an annual dose of Chaz’s world view would be just the tonic to round off the year.
Often parodied, yet the master himself is well beyond that, and needs no-one to make his words any more outlandish than they are when they leave his mouth. So Charles, if you or your associates read this forum, please get the camcorder out and do your stuff!
If and when Rangers go into administration, and that has to be a distinct possibility now, how many points they get deducted will surely be the least of their worries.
The real issue will be how they will be able to get back out of administration.
There seems to be a perception that administration is an end, in and of itself. In reality it is normally a method by which a business can protect itself from being wound up. It is really just a way in which someone can try to find a way to save the limited company, and have it move forward as a viable business.
Neither Rangers FC Ltd or Rangers PLC are currently a viable business. Jointly they are loss making, and it is difficult to see how that can change as things stand.
They really do need a fresh start, and a proper one this time, costs commensurate with income.
Comedy genius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrbY7NmGxHU
Oh and message for Campbell.
Stick the oven on for those two balls and sack the office smartarse that tippexed ‘The’ onto the Rangers Ball.
As you were.
Smugas says: (587)
December 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm,
You make a good point. Kids tend to be glory-seekers, and the more a team wins the more likely kids – wherever they live in Scotland, will be attracted to them.
I spent 19 years in England and never even contemplated switching my allegiance from Rangers to an english club in my locality. Among other things, that probably had at some hidden level something to do with the fact I was in my mid-teens before I was acquainted with a Rangers team that wasn’t Scottish Champions/producing the celebratory end of season video for repeated consumption!
I believe the Old Firm are becoming less tethered to their traditional socio-political moorings and therefore having a successful team winning trophies will become ever more important to attracting young supporters above and beyond the existing fanbase.
bryce9a says: (65)
December 2, 2013 at 12:51 pm
I spent 19 years in England and never even contemplated switching my allegiance from Rangers….
And now you have had to do this 🙄
Zilch says: (120)
December 2, 2013 at 11:49 am
12 1 Rate This
PS. Went to the local park on Saturday with my wee boy (4 years old) and we ended up watching a couple of primary school teams playing each other. The football was both comical and really engaging, but the best thing for me was the way the two teams lined up to shake hands after the final whistle. It is a great tradition in rugby and I wish that it could be brought into football.
==================================================================
but is it?
Rugby and football are very different games played with very different mindsets. But sadly, the “professionalism” of both games mean that lip service (at best) is only paid to the ideals of the corinthian spirit.
“professional” fouls, diving, simulation are all taught/practiced by players as much as their technical and physical training – free kicks, passing, dribbling, tactics, corners, stamina, diet, fitness etc
Even the rules of the game are being interpreted to damp down the spirit – the rules on booking players for celebrating are a joke and are inconsistently applied (again leaving the game open to rules of bias/corruption)
Money is corrupting the game, it’s encouraging players to do whatever is necessary to win – and that means cheating.be it diving or be it paying players via tax dodging schemes with contracts not registered to “fixers” arranging games to profit at the bookies.
I don’t really know anyway around it – the only real way is to remove the financial incentives from the game and to implement a broader use of technology to punish those who cheat. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a player who dived for a penalty – which was awarded, from which they scored and the team won to then find his actions under review on the monday morning and to be issued with a 5 game ban and the club docked 3 points (rising with each subsequent offence)
You can bet that managers would soon stop the cheating. Players diving would not be worht millions to clubs, but would become liabilities, and EVERYONE would be caught by the action replay.
the FA’s will say you can’t apply these rules at lower league games – but so what, they are not the games that are reaping the financial rewards. We are told these “professionals” are role models, well, what they do trickles down. So, start at the top, stop the cheats, hammer them AND the clubs and eventually we’ll see a return to the proper sporting integrity we all want.
Won’t stop the bookies fixing the game, but might cut down on the teams/players cheating
Kiddies shaking hands after a game is meaningless if the coaches are encourage them to break the rules and disrespect their opponents during the 90 mins (not that I’m saying it happened in this game!)
Tif Finn says: (938)
December 2, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Comedy genius
=======================================================
Snake oil by the gallon, The Directors (spivs) would like to thank the loyal for the IPO money,
I wonder how much is left to go towards Allys £10m, now that the SFA is not standing in his way,
I hope he gets every penny of the £ 10m that’s been set aside for players.
Good spot Jean! Took me a minute, but I got there in the end.
No, thanks for coming back to me Brycie. The point being that, outside Glasgow where the physical presence will always attract support, the whole I went to school…My da works…..My church is…. simply does not have the resonance it once did, especially if you add in the modern generation’s preference to remain indoors and spend their money on bitcoins, whatever that is! Yes, the father to son bond will still occur (or mum to daughter, sorry Jean) but the single strongest recruiting force now, for an otherwise dwindling support (for no other reason than fans, unlike clubs apparently, do die at some point) is exposure, and positive exposure at that.
Obviously where I am now coming to is that many have spoken about the death of your club by a thousand cuts and, strictly in terms of cash availability that is what has happened (OK death was probably exactly the wrong word to use but cut me some slack here) albeit there appeared to be no effort whatsoever by the in situ management to stem the loss, but instead to maximise the positive exposure. We all know exactly what Chick Young meant on Saturday when he said that Celtic hammering hearts was a bad thing – we can all guess what his suggested solution was too. But the three ends simply don’t marry up. Something somewhere has to give – and whilst I suspect in the first instance that just means another cash call, it doesn’t add up long term. Champions League or bust seems to be the strategy. Strikes me its a pretty high risk one. Do you think it was their only strategy? Put it another way. In pursuing it it could very well have cost you your ground. Do you think it was worth it?
Just stuck this on the LSE site (yeah I know, not that LSE site….) regarding the whole selling off assets thing. My question may have been answered already, in which case can someone point me back to it? What I am trying to establish is “Was what was said at the “FANS MEETING” even possible? Let alone plausible?
Did I not read that one of the groups vying for control was talking about putting Ibrox and Murray (?) Park beyond the reach of asset strippers, presumably by putting them in trust of some sort. With independent trustees.
I am an investor and general “on-shore” kind of guy but would that even be possible? After all, you aren’t selling the assets, but equally you are moving them off-balance sheet and that would of course affect the price of the company…
Zilch says: (120)
December 2, 2013 at 11:49 am
Thanks for the kind words, though I’m not that big a man, but I do love my club enough to recognise it’s failings as well as it’s successes. I do, however, abhor anyone, like CY, hijacking it just to push his own agenda.
One thing I think is overlooked/forgotten from the Romanov years was the way he pushed forward with Hearts’ community projects, some of which, I think, were award winning. I actually think he was genuine in his desire to help the community. See, not even Romanov 😈 was all bad 🙄 The way modern football clubs promote community projects is indeed something we should find cause for pride in 😀
bryce9a says: (65)
December 2, 2013 at 12:18 pm
It seems clear that Rangers will receive a 25 point penalty if newco, or the PLC controlling newco, go into administration. Hopefully from my perspective, such solid evidence of my position regarding Rangers’ status in terms of the rules will not fall into my lap – really wouldn’t be worth it! (although the club = Rangers, company = oldco/newco distinction within the rules was established beyond doubt by LNS anyway)
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thats certainly what you are hoping for eh? I guess we’ll have to wait and see…..what i like most of all about your argument is the acceptance that Sevco are going to go bust at some point. Not even up for debate now, just a case of when.
The irony of waiting for your club to go out of business again so you can prove it’s the same club is not at all lost on me.
The thing I find hardest to understand about the Rangers’ support is accepting that administration is a distinct possibility.
I ask again, what then.
What do you think the administrator will do. Assuming it is not totally corrupt like the last sham, what can they do to save the PLC, or the Ltd Co, or whatever it is that goes into administration.
I genuinely cannot see how either can be saved in anything like their present form.