Past the Event Horizon

ByBig Pink

Past the Event Horizon

On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.

The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.

I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.

There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.

That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.

That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.

Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.

The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.

The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.

If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

3,926 Comments so far

YellohoosePosted on10:41 pm - Dec 7, 2013


One of my little brothers mates entered a raffle at Ibrox today, apparently to “help our future stars” . He won 5K and will be walking onto the Ibrox pitch on boxing day to collect a big cheque. Sounds like a crossbar challenge and I was loathe to tell him not to spend the money till it’s in his bank. Boxing day is after the AGM after all. Strangely strange.

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fergussingsthebluesPosted on10:55 pm - Dec 7, 2013


Just to add as well, in respect of the Civil War going on, i’ve read the pathetic statement from Mr Somers and heard the pathetic interview with Mr Murray to Sportsound.

It’s just so sad!

It was also strange that all the manager wanted to talk about today was the football, despite 40,000 fans flashing Red Cards in the 18th and 72nd minutes.

Never mind Ally, the lock-in period expires just before the AGM! Good timing?

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paulsatimPosted on11:21 pm - Dec 7, 2013


Vanguard Bears publish disgusting ‘death list’, basically all their perceived ‘enemies’ with a red cross through those that have passed away. One is Paul McBride and the other, I believe, is Paul McConville. http://t.co/WSY8ksWwED

Thumbs up to show your disgust at this (only adding this as some may think thumb up is agreeing with the VB)

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EstebanPosted on11:33 pm - Dec 7, 2013


paulsatim says: (646)
December 7, 2013 at 11:21 pm

Tony Hamilton? Seriously? The guy who devotes all his time to raising money for good causes? That Tony Hamilton?

Are these peepil beyond help?

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paulsatimPosted on11:54 pm - Dec 7, 2013


From the ridiculous to the sublime with the sevconians. A screenshot from FF forum, showing their delusion. Its seemingly now been pulled by admins!! http://i42.tinypic.com/674bnq.png

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John ClarkPosted on12:15 am - Dec 8, 2013


Tif Finn says: (969)
December 7, 2013 at 10:01 pm
‘…Just in case anyone hasn’t seen the BBC list of EBT recipient..’
————-
Just the very dab,Tif!
I was trying to find that list,but couldn’t. I thought I had printed it off, but clearly had not.
Thank you.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on12:16 am - Dec 8, 2013


I may be a minority of one
But
As a season ticket holder within earshot of the Green Brigade I find their incessant noise a real pain.
How any decent CFC fans can think that rubbish adds “atmosphere” is beyond me
Now that they have added flare throwing, and non football related banners to their tuneless repertoire it is high time all of them were permanently expelled from Parkhead
Jock Stein would never have tolerated this nonsense
I would much rather see a bunch of empty seats than this lot of numpties

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paulsatimPosted on12:18 am - Dec 8, 2013


Sunday Mail back page, http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/bullster1888/165d568290b56d2b53b69ee44ef9f9f2.jpg

Ban the Bams and Ally paycut delayed!

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John ClarkPosted on12:28 am - Dec 8, 2013


bryce9a says: (104)
December 7, 2013 at 9:50 pm
‘….Is the mere intent to do so a shameful act in itself?!…’
—————-
In the current state of affairs, the use by the MSM of the term “old firm” is not just a handy shorthand: it is a deliberate act of support for the false claim that the new, bastard, club is the old club, which is still on the mortuary slab being forensically dissected by BDO to see if its corpse can produce something of value for the creditors it stiffed while it lived its cheating, unpleasant existence.
It is a shameful piece of lying propaganda by men who have no respect for themselves, and no respect for their readers or listeners, and no respect for Truth.

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bryce9aPosted on12:51 am - Dec 8, 2013


john clarke says: (1417)
December 8, 2013 at 12:28 am
—————-
In the current state of affairs, the use by the MSM of the term “old firm” is not just a handy shorthand: it is a deliberate act of support for the false claim that the new, bastard, club is the old club, which is still on the mortuary slab being forensically dissected by BDO to see if its corpse can produce something of value for the creditors it stiffed while it lived its cheating, unpleasant existence.
It is a shameful piece of lying propaganda by men who have no respect for themselves, and no respect for their readers or listeners, and no respect for Truth.
++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps.
But, employing the principle of parismony, I think occam’s razor firmly comes down on my side that it’s just a nickname used to refer to the two big Glasgow clubs.

http://spfl.co.uk/clubs/rangers/
and
http://spfl.co.uk/clubs/celtic/

I hear many Celtic men – such as Murdo Macleod, Peter Grant (mentioned earlier) etc – using it so your theory that its use is some semantic tool for evangelising about Rangers survival doesn’t cut the mustard for me I’m afraid. Can’t rule it out I suppose.

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John ClarkPosted on12:52 am - Dec 8, 2013


timomouse says: (4)
December 7, 2013 at 9:23 pm
‘…… I ended up meeting with two representatives from the SPFL on Thursday ..’
———-
I have no doubt whatsoever that the paid , operational staff of both the SFA and SPFL are as good as or better than the paid staff of any organisation. They are no more responsible for the lies and deceit of their masters than the staff of our banks are responsible for the lies and deceit of their masters.

They will work to their immediate briefs, and it is encouraging that you find the ones you met to be as you describe.

But if the very heads of the organisation are living a lie, if the men to whom they report are perceived to be essentially unprincipled men of straw, they also will sooner or later run the risk of being corrupted.

Would you personally work for the present CEO of the SPFL?

And no one in his right mind would work for a board headed by the best administrator in the world!

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Tif FinnPosted on1:14 am - Dec 8, 2013


Occam’s razor is a very simple concept.

It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Based on that, Rangers are a new club.

That requires no assumptions, it accepts that the way the Scottish football authorities treat Rangers is what Rangers actually are, a new club.

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Hartsons CombPosted on2:03 am - Dec 8, 2013


From the Scotsman:

Rangers manager Ally McCoist has disclosed that the club has not yet allowed him to reduce his £825,000 annual salary, in spite of the fact that, as far back as September, he voluntarily offered to accept a 50 per cent pay cut, writes Ewing Grahame.

McCoist has made it clear to the Ibrox hierarchy that he is willing to agree to that cut – with the proviso that his wages will return to normal should Rangers continue their progress to the top tier – but the current board has so far refused to accept his offer.

At a time when cost-cutting measures are required, the 51-year-old has been left puzzled by the directors’ failure to welcome such a major saving and is hoping that the reason is simply a logistical problem arising from the resignation of former chief executive Craig Mathers and 
his subsequent replacement by Graham Wallace. When asked whether his terms had been reduced, McCoist replied: “Not yet. We have met on two or three occasions.

“My advisor met the previous chief exec and we more or less agreed terms but, as yet, nothing has happened. I’m very hopeful that’s just down to the changeover because nothing has changed on my part. We feel it’s the right thing to do, we want to do it and we will do it – hopefully, sooner rather than later.

“I would hope that the [original] agreement we had, we could just continue with but it [the chief executive role] has been changed over.

“I appreciate that might move the goalposts a wee bit – but, hopefully, not too much that it would prevent it happening.”

Rangers’ financial director, Brian Stockbridge, has arranged a meeting with McCoist this week, at which the wage cut is expected to be addressed.
##############################

In September, when Mr. McCoist announced he wanted his wages cut in half, he stated: “Some people maybe forget when I became manager someone put a contract in front of me and I just signed it. It was as simple as that. I didn’t even look at the wages or length of deal – I just said ‘I’m signing that’ because it’s what I want to do.”

So negotiations for the £825,000 annual salary took only the amount of time for him to scribble his name on a piece of paper. Yet altering that same piece of paper to simply read “£412,500 annual salary” has taken 10 weeks and counting? Hmmm….

Surely Mr. McCoist will donate back to the club (or to any of the creditors shafted by the oldco) the nearly £100,000 extra in wages that he’s received since making his public pledge, right?

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Exiled CeltPosted on4:09 am - Dec 8, 2013


I was arguing with my Rangers franchise supporting nephew the other day when he was telling me that Lennon is a disgrace wearing tracksuits in the CL – my retort that if he was on the same money as McCoist, he may be able to afford the brogues/blazier/tie etc was half hearted whataboutery. However I am not sure why Ra Peepil get hung up on their managers being properly attired – but that is another issue for a later time/place.

He replied that Ally had taken a paycut so that although he was overpaid last year, he had now done the right thing. I told him – let’s wait until the financial figures comes out and see if his purported paycut ever happened. With the shares he has and the money piling in, I could not see him giving all this up.

My nephew said – well he does deserve it for all he’s been through. I shook my head!

I assume Ally is now realising some figures are about to be published either before or at the AGM to show projected expenses for the rest of the season and has realised that this will show he has not got his pay cut! Cue today’s story where he relates his defence in his “wisnae my fault, I thought they did it before running away, I was duped on my pay cut” story!

Hate it when I am proved to be right on the money – sorry nephew! ! 🙂

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Exiled CeltPosted on4:28 am - Dec 8, 2013


Bryce – I have never liked the Old Firm label because it connected my team to an unsavoury lot that really only happened when we were being blamed for something being done that was usually only used when needed to be derogatory . It was always RFC-NIL conquering Europe – never the Old Firm – unless Celtic were doing well of course and RFC-NIL were not of course! When RFC-NIL got humped due to Walters tactical nous, it was always the Old Firm in crisis then.

Bit like the David Coleman habit of commentating that Allan Wells won his Gold medal for GB, but Steve Everett and Sebastian Coe were of course English.

However using the term now is nonsense – it would be like introducing Ernie Wise and his pal as Morecambe and Wise. Since Eric is no longer with us, its only Wise and some other bloke. Same with Celtic and the Rangers franchise.

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FisianiPosted on7:57 am - Dec 8, 2013


The Green Brigade are not bigger than Celtic and despite their passion they have to be expunged. Their section of Celtic Park has to be closed and anyone besmirching the name of Celtic has to be banned. They have exhausted all tolerance.

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tomtomPosted on8:01 am - Dec 8, 2013


Exiled,

Ernie is also dead.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:18 am - Dec 8, 2013


bryce9a says: (105)
December 7, 2013 at 9:50 pm
=============================
You can’t stop people using the term, though I’d argue right now its main use is to keep ‘Rangers’ relevant. There is no argument whatsover that Celtic are dependent on Rangers, despite the concerted efforts right up to First Minister level to say otherwise.

My main gripe relates to how the term is used depending on which side of the coin is in the spotlight. Right now no-one is accusing the events at Fir Park of being an ‘old firm’ problem. Yet the words have been frequently rolled out in the past when discussing misdemeanors among the Rangers support. I don’t recall Celtic fans being involved in trouble when Rangers fans were in Pamplona, but Radio Clyde infamously the very next day spoke of issues when ‘the old firm’ went abroad. Did they blame Rangers fans for anything that happened in Amsterdam? (not that I’m saying they should have of course!)

The bottom line is that with everything in Scotland it is what suits Rangers best that will prevail. Only fan power prevented the authorities from forcing through an act of cheating unprecedented in world football by effectively wiping the slate clean at Ibrox and allowing a club based there to enter the top league. Even then the act of cheating we have witnessed will probably never be beaten. Right now the use of the term ‘old firm’ suits one club, and one club only, and that is why we are having it forced down our throat every day from every angle. Scotland is inherently biased towards Rangers – it always has been and it always will be.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:42 am - Dec 8, 2013


paulsatim says: (648)
December 7, 2013 at 11:21 pm
192 0 Rate This

Vanguard Bears publish disgusting ‘death list’, basically all their perceived ‘enemies’ with a red cross through those that have passed away. One is Paul McBride and the other, I believe, is Paul McConville. http://t.co/WSY8ksWwED

Thumbs up to show your disgust at this (only adding this as some may think thumb up is agreeing with the VB)
————

Eventful weekend.

This link above is another example of a group that perceives itself as being more important than the football club it’s latched onto. The you-know-whos are now in control of the asylum.

I thought Stuart Cosgrove made a valid point yesterday regarding the disconnect between groups of younger supporters and those who are older. He reckons many of the tut-tutters were no angels in a previous life.

I can’t comment on the GB as I’ve no idea who or what they are, or if it is in fact that group that’s into the mindless vandalism. But I do agree with those who say that all instances of away-fan vandalism should be highlighted. Family people with young kids will stay far away from any club where this type of stuff goes on.

The photos I’ve seen from Friday night seem to show young people. I also read the Falkirk flare thrower was a 16-year-auld lassie. These kids might just have been ‘oot thur heids’ on some substance or other and decided to take life’s frustrations out on other people’s property. Though, without wanting to sound all sociology student, young people do very daft things, but is someone manipulating these youngsters’ political outlook? With the right indoctrination even vandalism can be justified (in the minds of some).

On a different line, I notice Paul Murray was panned for his interview yesterday but he did make a good point — what does CEO Graham Wallace make of it all? Surely he must have heard of Charles Green?

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jimlarkinPosted on9:18 am - Dec 8, 2013


The Scottish Football Association aims to stave off the scourge of match fixing by appointing an integrity officer to target corruption, with the position, which will be part funded by European governing body Uefa, having been advertised.
Full story: Scotland On Sunday
===============================

Shirley they’re having a laugh !

Tackling corruption and integrity should start on the 6th floor of Hampden !

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:30 am - Dec 8, 2013


CarlisleCelt says: (88)
December 8, 2013 at 8:39 am
1 1 Rate This
GoosyGoosy says: (482)
December 8, 2013 at 12:16 am
____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Goosy’s tolerance, like Peter Lawwell’s, has been stretched to breaking point. And it has finally snapped.
The neds came to the party, and initially had a good time. Yes they were loud and obnoxious but they got everyone up dancing. As the party wore on, however, the neds became increasingly out of control, being sick behind the couch, breaking furniture and redecorating the walls with all manner of stuff. At this, the other guests began to shun the neds and had a word with the host.

“It’s been a good party Peter but, if that lot are coming next time, they had better behave otherwise we’ll have to consider not coming in future, which would be shame. If you can’t control them, don’t let them in!”

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AllyjamboPosted on9:43 am - Dec 8, 2013


bryce9a says: (105)

December 8, 2013 at 12:51 am

‘The Old Firm’ was more than just a nickname, it was used as a brand name, whenever it suited one, or both, of the clubs covered by it. It was used by both, and their supporting (in this case) MSM, to promote their ‘desirability’ for the English League. It was used to promote the idea that ‘The Old Firm Game’ was the biggest club match in the world. It was used to signify that both clubs were bigger than every other team in Scotland. It was used by both. Both benefitted from it, though perhaps one club needed it more than the other.

Until one, or both, club(s) deny it’s existence it will remain, in waiting at least, until both clubs feel they have a use for it again. The Celtic fans hate it and want it consigned, along with RFC, to the past. The Rangers/TRFC fans hate it, but only want it dropped (not consigned to the past) because it sounds good to say so. They are desperate for it’s usage and every time it is used will feel like oxygen to them.

On the subject of Peter Grant, and other ex-Celtic players saying they miss the OF matches etc. I have never valued what players say about such things. The press love to give great credibility to what they say on such matters, but really, the players view such matters from a completely different viewpoint than the supporters. Despite the rhetoric, Peter Grant’s life, and experiences, relate more to Ally McCoist (as an example) than they do to the ordinary Celtic fan. He will be able to empathise with McCoist and if, as is likely, they are friends, Grant won’t see what we all see in McCoist’s disgusting pronouncements. I am not suggesting, for one moment, that peter Grant doesn’t love Celtic, and the supporters, it’s just that he has lived the vast majority of his life in that bubble that all top footballers live in and, unintentionally, says what all footballers/ex footballers would say when approached by the press – he says what he knows they want him to say; because if he doesn’t, they will remember when next doing a story about him, or, at the very least, ignore him as a ‘go to’ celebrity. There is, of course, quite a few examples of what happens to those who say ‘the wrong thing’ on such matters, and that should always be taken into consideration. I think it would be wrong of Celtic supporters to be too critical of Peter Grant, and other players/ex players, on what they might say on this, or any other subject; and crass stupidity of Rangers/TRFC supporters to take succour from it.

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TSFMPosted on9:58 am - Dec 8, 2013


Easy Jambo and Ally Jambo

You have PMs 🙂

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CarlisleCeltPosted on10:05 am - Dec 8, 2013


Removed for trivialising a serious issue. if you have a comment to make, make it. Leave the sarcasm aside
TSFM

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jean7brodiePosted on10:10 am - Dec 8, 2013


john clarke says: (1418)
December 8, 2013 at 12:28 am

It is a shameful piece of lying propaganda by men who have no respect for themselves, and no respect for their readers or listeners, and no respect for Truth.
————————————————————————————————
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic”.
John F. Kennedy

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FIFAPosted on10:11 am - Dec 8, 2013


Talking with some Celtic fans last night and they where saying that the aproach to the ground before the game was not as it normally has been,more than normal policing ,more than normal mounted police ,herded in a way that caused crushing etc ,etc, no stewards or police at a section inside the ground where there is normaly a presence ,anyone comment on this .

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jimlarkinPosted on10:13 am - Dec 8, 2013


Can we look through the round window today (from ibrox)

. . . Today’s word is

. . . Liquidation

[Liquidation. ~ The means by which the business activities of a company are brought to an end. The process is similar to the administration of a deceased estate, however a company may not be declared bankrupt under the Bankruptcy Act but must be wound up in accordance with the Corporations Law. Liquidation is sometimes synonymous with winding up].

n.Bust

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manandboyPosted on10:41 am - Dec 8, 2013


jean7brodie says: (388) December 8, 2013 at 10:10 am

“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic”.
John F. Kennedy
________________________________________________________________________________________
With respect Jsb & JFK

The enemy of truth is fear.

Always has been.

The lie is merely the opposite of the truth.

Genesis 3:10 He (Adam) answered,
He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”

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Paulmac2Posted on10:41 am - Dec 8, 2013


jimlarkin says: (684)
December 8, 2013 at 9:18 am
……………………….

They could go the whole Monty Python hog with this and appoint Ian Black! 😆

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TSFMPosted on10:53 am - Dec 8, 2013


FIFA says: (451)

December 8, 2013 at 10:11 am

Talking with some Celtic fans last night and they where saying that the aproach to the ground before the game was not as it normally has been,more than normal policing ,more than normal mounted police ,herded in a way that caused crushing etc ,etc, no stewards or police at a section inside the ground where there is normaly a presence ,anyone comment on this .
_________________________________________________________________

My information from speaking to half a dozen Celtic fans and four Motherwell fans who were present at the game is that they saw nothing out of the ordinary taking place with regard to policing. Are you suggesting that the morons who jeopardised safety by letting off flares and smoke bombs and who tore up seats were forced to do so by heavy-handed policing?

If not, what is the point the people you spoke to are making?

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CarlisleCeltPosted on10:59 am - Dec 8, 2013


Yes I will make a comment Mr TSFM it appears that the Green Brigade are getting blamed for all and sundry. They have said it was not them that broke the seats at Motherwell are you and others hear saying they are liars? And your removal of my comment just shows how petty this board has become. I like many on hear have been a reader since RTC days, and to be fair there are many good contributors and that is why I continue to read. I will make my point, and tough if you don’t like it!

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:00 am - Dec 8, 2013


CarlisleCelt says: (89)
December 8, 2013 at 10:05 am
0 0 Rate This
The GB must be the only set of supporters that attend Celtic away matches! Shame on them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This illustrates that the GB are displaying supremacist traits, just like sections of the Ibrox support. They think they are the only ones that matter. Football would be immeasurably improved by removing the GBs, the VBs. In fact, just get rid of the Bs.

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TSFMPosted on11:15 am - Dec 8, 2013


CarlisleCelt says: (90)

December 8, 2013 at 10:59 am
Yes I will make a comment Mr TSFM it appears that the Green Brigade are getting blamed for all and sundry. They have said it was not them that broke the seats at Motherwell are you and others hear saying they are liars? And your removal of my comment just shows how petty this board has become. I like many on hear have been a reader since RTC days, and to be fair there are many good contributors and that is why I continue to read. I will make my point, and tough if you don’t like it!
__________________________________________________________________________

Not a question of what I like or don’t like. Why couldn’t you just say that at the start so we would know what you mean?

My removal your comment was on the grounds that you trivialised a serious issue by the use of sarcasm – much like we were all accusing the guy at the Rangers meeting last week of doing. If that is petty, I agree we are guilty of that.

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scottcPosted on11:16 am - Dec 8, 2013


Hartsons Comb says: (19)
December 8, 2013 at 2:03 am
44 1 Rate This

From the Scotsman:

Rangers manager Ally McCoist has disclosed that the club has not yet allowed him to reduce his £825,000 annual salary, in spite of the fact that, as far back as September, he voluntarily offered to accept a 50 per cent pay cut, writes Ewing Grahame.

This Scotsman (and the other papers) story is exactly how lies become accepted as fact. Ally McCoist is NOT getting a 50% wage cut. When he initially ‘requested’ his wages be reduced (no figure detailed), it was rumoured that the cut would be 15%. Ally’s response was that it was NOT 15%, but was nearer 50% than that. My prediction is that his wages will be reduced to £500,000.

One other thing; The £825,000 was for 13 months, which works out at nearer £750,000 pa.

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SmugasPosted on11:23 am - Dec 8, 2013


Bryce,

The old firm tag is now tainted, not that the supporters of the other 10 top teams needed any reminders of this. Yes they were cash cows in terms of the fans visiting but they brought with them so many other issues, from stewarding costs, home gate reductions to prize money distribution that they should now question if they were worth the hassle. Regrettably, from my own point of view, they seem to have stuck with the devil they know. Hell mend them.

Again I return to my point previous. If we accept that the old firm does still exist as was then what were the boards of RFCold putting at risk when they started playing with debt and taxes? In your world, absolutely nothing it would appear. At present CFC don’t need the old firm tag, RFCnew desperately do. Funnily enough the only branch of CFC that probably does need the ‘brand’ is probably the fans as that is the only thing that will keep the cash for better players coming.

The only other person I can think of is Neil Doncaster simply as he is clearly a one trick sales pony.

Tif
On the EBT list, did we ever get to the bottom of all the recipients or were there still some anomalies. I seem to recall number 64 being significant for some reason i.e. the recipients went 62, 63, 65, 66 or something like that.

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Danish PastryPosted on11:24 am - Dec 8, 2013


jimlarkin says: (684)
December 8, 2013 at 9:18 am
29 0 Rate This

The Scottish Football Association aims to stave off the scourge of match fixing by appointing an integrity officer to target corruption, with the position, which will be part funded by European governing body Uefa, having been advertised.
Full story: Scotland On Sunday
===============================

Shirley they’re having a laugh !

Tackling corruption and integrity should start on the 6th floor of Hampden !
———–

Too right. Wasn’t a famous phrase ‘second only to match fixing’? And someone currently sitting behind a nicely polished Hampden desk was connected to a scheme which was second only to match fixing.

I suppose it’s too much to hope for, that a reversal of the BTC verdict will lead to the resignations of certain individuals.

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AllyjamboPosted on11:39 am - Dec 8, 2013


Can I say, that not only is it heartening to see so many posters wanting to put their own house in order, it is being said, in the main, because it is the right thing to do, rather than just because it would be in the club’s best interest. This is in sharp contrast to what I’ve read from other sites where the reasoning, on the rare occasion sanity is requested, is solely based on the premise that not to change would do that club harm. Which is exactly the same, and only, reason that club changed it’s signing policy.

On the point CarlisleCelt raised: If, indeed, the damage was not caused by the Green Brigade, Celtic have a far bigger problem to deal with than they first thought, though, ‘it wisnae us’ is hardly a credible defence. Carlisle was, of course, correct to bring the claims he heard to the blogs notice so it could be debated in a more balanced environment than would otherwise be the case.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:46 am - Dec 8, 2013


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9298583/Rangers-risk-fresh-sanctions-after-wnning-transfer-embargo-ruling.html

The explicit punishments stated in the SFA’s rule 66 are a maximum £100,000 fine, suspension or expulsion from participation in the game, ejection from the Scottish Cup or termination of membership.

The independent three-man SFA disciplinary panel had considered ending Rangers’ membership, saying they viewed the offence second only to match-fixing in terms of seriousness, but decided a transfer ban was more appropriate.

Having already administered the maximum fine, an SFA appeal would therefore only be entitled to throw them out of the Scottish Cup for a spell or else stop the club playing football altogether in Scotland.

FIFA have also stepped in to the dispute, stating that they expect member associations to take “direct action” against clubs who take them to court.

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buddy_hollyPosted on11:50 am - Dec 8, 2013


CarlisleCelt says: (90)
December 8, 2013 at 10:59 am
10 4 Rate This

Yes I will make a comment Mr TSFM it appears that the Green Brigade are getting blamed for all and sundry. They have said it was not them that broke the seats at Motherwell are you and others hear saying they are liars? And your removal of my comment just shows how petty this board has become. I like many on hear have been a reader since RTC days, and to be fair there are many good contributors and that is why I continue to read. I will make my point, and tough if you don’t like it!

First let me say that the green brigade at celtic park have brought themselves to the attention of all and sundry for both good and bad reasons.

The banner which triggered the latest UEFA investigation was deliberately controversial though making a fair political point, though parkhead is not a olitical arena as such it is a football arena. If under the statement, one mans terrorists is another mans freedom fighter we would have had nelson mandela then the following events would have been highly intriguing.

Secondly, I condemn the vandalism at Motherwell on Friday night. I make no excuses for it, but how can it be identified that it WAS the green brigade. In the immediate aftermath of the TV pictures in the place I was, many RFC(IL)/SEVCO supporters immediately said it was the green brigade, A conclusion entirely based upon their supposition and hatred, furthered by the fact that there are not many identifiable celtic groups.

Thirdly, these are acts of individuals, they will be treated as such. Even when a group of individuals are acting poorly, unless there is some entity directly organising he behaviour it will be difficult to say that group X committed the behaviour. However if a group did organise the vandalism that in itself will lead to s different string of offences.

Fourthly, the changes in football to all seater all ticket games dragged the anonymity away from people. This is ebbing away quite a bit, especially in a half empty stadium you can sit where you want! It also leads to the conclusion that anonymity would increase with standing areas!

Fifthly, the scheduling of football for TV purposes has many foreseeable consequences, i was surprised that Motherwell v Celtic was chosen for a Friday night. Footballs continuing pursuit of higher commercial income from TV rights and sponsorship has eroded the saturday 3 pm game, though previously there was enough violence at Saturday 3 pm to destroy this as utopia.

Buddy

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Tif FinnPosted on11:53 am - Dec 8, 2013


http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/scotland/scotfoot/scotfoot_20131207-1400a.mp3

Podcast of Paul Murray on radio yesterday.

He really isn’t a very impressive individual, other than an unerring ability to totally fail to answer direct questions.

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Hartsons CombPosted on11:58 am - Dec 8, 2013


scottc says: (380)
December 8, 2013 at 11:16 am

This Scotsman (and the other papers) story is exactly how lies become accepted as fact. Ally McCoist is NOT getting a 50% wage cut. When he initially ‘requested’ his wages be reduced (no figure detailed), it was rumoured that the cut would be 15%. Ally’s response was that it was NOT 15%, but was nearer 50% than that. My prediction is that his wages will be reduced to £500,000.

One other thing; The £825,000 was for 13 months, which works out at nearer £750,000 pa.

#########################

I stand corrected in regard to Mr. McCoist having never publicly stated an exact figure or percentage for his voluntary salary reduction (and that his annual salary is not £825,000 but actually about £762,300 (or nearly £15,000 per week)).

But my point remains the same. I commented on this board in September that it was ridiculous when Mr. McCoist publicly announced he was “negotiating” with the club to reduce his pay. If it was voluntary, what needed to be negotiated? While it sounded bizarre in September, Mr. McCoist was applauded by the MSM and fans of his club for his seemingly selfless act (albeit one made in the weeks before his salary was made public so his gesture blunted the outrage from some quarters).

But now, in the ensuing ten weeks since publicly making his voluntary pledge–and after his representative has met with the club “two or three times” to discuss the issue–it is still not resolved. It’s more bizarre now than it was in September. What is to be negotiated in a voluntary pay reduction? And why should it take so much time and energy for the contract to be rewritten? And will Mr. McCoist return to the club the extra money he’s received over the past ten weeks or, better yet, donate that money to the empty-handed creditors of his previous employer?

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AllyjamboPosted on12:22 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Hartsons Comb says: (20)

December 8, 2013 at 11:58 am

Spot on, Hartson . I doubt anyone, other than his most sycophantic fans (and there are many), would have seen it as any more than a publicity stunt, at best, or fear induced ‘moral’ decision of a man who knows he’s overpaid – and doesn’t want to lose his ‘cheeky chappy’ looks. Of course, maybe TRFC are holding off reducing his wage until it can be claimed as a world record salary for a manager in the third tier of any league! Such claims seem to be more important to them than living within their means would be.

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Palacio67Posted on12:34 pm - Dec 8, 2013


The following is a post that was made on one of the Celtic blogs about one fans observations on Friday Night. I do not know the fan personally but by reading the blog for the last 3 years you tend to separate the good from the bad, and believe he is in the same age group as myself, mid 40s and believe it to be an honest recollection of some of the nights events.
I have read other stories about the abundance of Stewards/Police at the turnstiles and you could enter by any turnstile etc which maybe made the idiots job of getting pyro into the game easier (I believe there were far more than per usual?). There is no excuse for the vandalism of seats imo.

Post is below

“Only managed a look at a couple of the pages of the current article but notice some points about behaviour of supporters last night.

Prior to the game I was standing at the corner off the main road collecting and giving out tickets when out of the blue there was a rush of coppers accompanied by blue flashing lights.

A large group of supporters were being led round the corner surrounded by yet more police officers. They were Celtic supporters though very few of them wore colours. One guy led the rest and began chanting, “ACAB ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS!” and the rest joined in.

At this point an officer on horseback charged into this guy intentionally and began threatening him. Now I’m not apportioning blame, merely relating what I witnessed.

I’ve seen reference to broken seats. I was in the top tier towards the back, well away from the GB section. I heard 2 seats being broken but didn’t see whether it was an accident or something more malicious.

After the game we were directed back onto the main road by the police and I was told about a side street that I’d need to go down to get back to my car.

As I got to the end if the side street I became aware of running/shouting that you immediately associate with violence.

A handful of young guys ran past me and initially I thought it was the beginning of a larger number of Celtic supporters who’d broken through the police cordon, something that had occurred last season at Fir Park.

I quickly realised when I noticed a gap following those running that they were in fact being chased. Now, I went to away games through the 80/90s so I’m acutely aware of Casuals and football violence, however, it’s a long time since I’ve witnessed more than shouting and posturing.

The chasing crowd, of about 30, we’re Motherwell casuals. As I walked through them the police began appearing, immediately lifting one who was in the process of throwing a bottle.

I stopped to see what would happen and was astonished to hear 2 officers say to a couple of thugs who were brandishing a bottle and traffic cone respectively that they’d be sensible to put their weapons down and scarper.

At this point the crowd were contained by the police and I made my way to the end of the street. At the corner I glanced back only to see the crowd walking nonchalantly away from their guards.

After retrieving my car I turned onto Airbles Rd and was held up by a police car which blocked the road as DOZENS of police officers shepherded a large number of Celtic supporters down the road towards the train station.

My window was down as I was smoking and clearly heard the initial shouts which preceded several sounds of smashing glass as bottles landed close to my car but which were aimed at the Celtic supporters.

Not really to my surprise did I discover that those throwing the missiles were the same Motherwell casuals I’d seen surrounded by the police less than 10 minutes previously.

They stood on the forecourt of the car dealership hurling abuse and yet more missiles. One Celtic supporter turned back to face them and replied with abuse of his own. He was immediately lifted. I wasn’t surprised.

It struck me that it was at exactly the same spot that Motherwell casuals attacked us after our bus had broken down in the 1990s. Then, as last night, it was a cowardly attack from behind.

The difference was that when we were jumped we had the opportunity to defend ourselves and fight back. Last night those police officers who are supposed to ‘Serve and Protect’ we’re too busy harassing a group of Celtic supporters to do their job effectively.”

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jimlarkinPosted on12:40 pm - Dec 8, 2013


That podcast with – Paul Murray – chartered accountant !

Dick gordon – 6mins in…mr somers said that if it wasn’t for brian stockbridge, ”the club” would have been
De-listed [from AIM] !

Ffs – i thought the bbc had to be clear about this
. . .the club or the company ???

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CarlisleCeltPosted on12:44 pm - Dec 8, 2013


buddy_holly says: (88)

December 8, 2013 at 11:50 am

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CarlisleCelt says: (90)
December 8, 2013 at 10:59 am
10 4 Rate This

First let me say that the green brigade at celtic park have brought themselves to the attention of all and sundry for both good and bad reasons.

The banner which triggered the latest UEFA investigation was deliberately controversial though making a fair political point, though parkhead is not a olitical arena as such it is a football arena. If under the statement, one mans terrorists is another mans freedom fighter we would have had nelson mandela then the following events would have been highly intriguing.

Secondly, I condemn the vandalism at Motherwell on Friday night. I make no excuses for it, but how can it be identified that it WAS the green brigade. In the immediate aftermath of the TV pictures in the place I was, many RFC(IL)/SEVCO supporters immediately said it was the green brigade, A conclusion entirely based upon their supposition and hatred, furthered by the fact that there are not many identifiable celtic groups.

Thirdly, these are acts of individuals, they will be treated as such. Even when a group of individuals are acting poorly, unless there is some entity directly organising he behaviour it will be difficult to say that group X committed the behaviour. However if a group did organise the vandalism that in itself will lead to s different string of offences.

Fourthly, the changes in football to all seater all ticket games dragged the anonymity away from people. This is ebbing away quite a bit, especially in a half empty stadium you can sit where you want! It also leads to the conclusion that anonymity would increase with standing areas!

Fifthly, the scheduling of football for TV purposes has many foreseeable consequences, i was surprised that Motherwell v Celtic was chosen for a Friday night. Footballs continuing pursuit of higher commercial income from TV rights and sponsorship has eroded the saturday 3 pm game, though previously there was enough violence at Saturday 3 pm to destroy this as utopia.

Buddy
_________________________________________________________________________

I have no arguments with the majority of this. Does not address the demonization of the GB though!

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iceman63Posted on12:45 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I think the blog has fallen into the trap of conflating the actions of The Green Brigade and the vandals who tore up chairs and launched flares at Motherrwell.
In fact CFC have two separate problems within their support – both of which need tackling.
One is that of a semi autonomous politically motivated sub group with an agenda which will periodically and persistently break rules of both Football and poorly drafted laws to cause significant problems for the club who appear to be impervious to negotiation and seem determined on tconflict to promote a divisive and narrow vision of the club. This is a uniquely tough problem for Celtic.
The events on Friday like last year’s debacle in Dundee are part of a wider worrying reawakening of the culture of football violence.
Treating the two problems as somehow being the same will guarantee that neither is tackled correctly.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:46 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I liked the bit when Murray said the claim of the club being de-listed was nonsense. When asked what evidence he had that it was nonsense his reply was basically – How could anyone possibly defend Stockbridge after the clubs financial performance last year.

He really has a knack of using an awful lot of words to say very little. He was exactly the same at the fans forum a few days ago.

Quite frankly, if he is the solution what exactly is the problem.

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upthehoopsPosted on12:58 pm - Dec 8, 2013


On the subject of Ally McCoist not yet having his salary reduced. He has missed an incredible PR opportunity where he could have donated half of his salary to charity. Better still, it could have been a charity close to the hearts of the Ibrox support, such as Erskine Hospital or the Prince of Wales trust. With the use of a gift aid form McCoist could even have ensured the tax he paid also went to the charity.

Yet he is still portrayed in the media as some kind of martyr for offering to half his salary, if his pesky paymasters would only get round to doing it. Actions speak louder than words!

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Tif FinnPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I think you are being harsh on Ally McCoist, he is clearly earning his massive wage.

This from follow follow.

“15 straight league wins, phenomenal achievement in any league!

For: 59
Against: 7”

The follow up posts pretty much agree with that sentiment.

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AllyjamboPosted on1:15 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Tif Finn says: (974)

December 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm

That’s one of those posts I never know whether to thumb up or down, so I will just say thanks for bringing the stupidity to our attention 😉

“15 straight league wins,”… does that mean straight as in ‘without illegal payments”.

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Tif FinnPosted on1:19 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I look forward to seeing the open top bus touring Govan if / when they win the Ramsdens Cup.

I say that with no disrespect to Raith Rovers fans.

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Tif FinnPosted on1:30 pm - Dec 8, 2013


My word a bit of reality, or is it just propaganda to try to prevent a boycott.

It could actually be a bit of both.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gordon-waddell–fans-boycott-2904812

Gordon Waddell : Fans’ boycott could push Rangers into oblivion

GORDON reckons that there’s little room for compromise in the Rangers boardroom battle and questions if a potential fans’ boycott of the club could do more harm than good.

IN some ways, it would be an act of football euthanasia.

A mercy killing.

Questions, though. Do the Rangers support really have the collective stomach to hold the pillow over the head of their club?

And should they? Do boycotts ever work?

That’s what they’re talking about this weekend. That if the ongoing battle for the powerbase of their club goes on to their dissatisfaction, they will “disengage”.

By their own admission the financial consequences would be “disastrous”.

It wasn’t explicit but you don’t need to an honours degree in reading between the lines to get their drift.

The nuclear option. No season-ticket money = no club.

That’s the power they wield. Power they’ve had at the fingertips for the past two summers if they’d chosen to exercise it.

Instead, with Walter Smith and Ally McCoist acting as kingmakers for successive regimes, they’ve relented twice.

This time? If they’re serious?

Unless things change beyond all recognition in the next six months, without the £10million the punters plough in before the start of the season Rangers would be back in administration in an instant.

Most clubs would struggle to survive a season-ticket boycott, even those with smaller turnovers, smaller wage bills and smaller supports.

Rangers, though? Not a hope.

With the money from their Initial Public Offering a goner, the prize money from winning League One negligible by their standards, a playing staff still costing a ludicrous £7m a year and the club still posting hefty losses every month?

The fans’ money is their bread and butter. The old notion that the supporters pay the players’ wages has long since been disabused at the top level – but in Rangers’ case right now, it’s actually true.

So what do supporters do?

If they truly believe their club have a cancer, if they’re truly sick of watching the pain and suffering and want to end it?

Sure, they have the agm in 11 days – and with 12 per cent of the shares they can be an influence if they’re organised and united.

But the rump of their power lies in the stands, not on the register.

Which leads to another question. Do the fans organisations making the statement truly represent the rank and file, the majority?

The men and women who just want to see their side play every week and to hell with the politics?

Is there a silent swathe who think the current lot deserve a chance to dig their way out of the hole?

Hard to believe, given the level to which they’ve been shafted twice, but it’s possible.

If not, though, are they all prepared to pay the price?

Because they CAN bring about this regime’s downfall – but can they pick up the pieces of a second administration?

In football terms, the rulebook was rewritten with the arrival of the SPFL in the summer, the punishments for insolvencies changed. Again.

Now Rule E states it’s a flat 15-point penalty for your first offence and 25 for a second if it happens within five years.

Take that to its conclusion and it could see their team start the Championship, potentially with Hearts, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk and a couple of other decent-sized sides, with both arms tied behind their back.

Would they survive on the field? Possibly.

Off it? How do you rebuild from the financial rubble the fans had deliberately created?

How do you do it without leaving yourselves open to the same mistakes made before?

Again, though, I go back to the column I wrote a few months ago talking about the potential for a membership scheme and proper fan stewardship of their club.

If they’d had the appetite, the organisation and the collective belief in it right back at the start, it would have been possible, done right. But is the zero option of
razing the lot to the ground first to start from scratch again their only recourse to action?

They probably need to ask if they can trust ANY of the parties vying for power at the moment to provide an alternative.

Because right now, it has the serious feel of clowns to the left of them, jokers to the right.

The statement issued by their chairman David Somers on Friday was an embarrassment to the club. His claim to be so independent that he had no idea who Charles Green and Craig Whyte were before he arrived was laughable.

Where has he been living? Pluto? It just made him look detached from reality, not detached from the previous regimes.

And using phrases like bogeymen in a formal statement? Is there NO-ONE there to act as a filter for that kind of infantile idiocy?

Not that the requisitioners have covered themselves in glory either. Their blueprint was flimsier than a new year resolution.

Still, the one thing Somers DID clarify was there’ll be no compromise come the agm, no fudge. Anyone thinking they might find a middle ground by accommodating one or two of the rebels in exchange for peace is dreaming.

It’s a straight them or us. Unless it’s neither.

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AllyjamboPosted on1:30 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Ah, Raith Rovers! Now if they won 15 straight league games in a row there would be no doubt as to what ‘straight’ meant, and there would be genuine reason for a team of their means, and for their supporters, to celebrate!

Regardless of who their opposition was, I have no doubt every neutral in the country would have cause to celebrate a cup final victory for them, well non TRFC neutrals, that is!

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coatbrigbhoyPosted on1:37 pm - Dec 8, 2013


http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory.php?item=4385
Re the Green Brigade and broken seats,
Read the bit about 190 broken seats at Parkhead,
the Green Brigade at the time stated that so many seats get broken due to the exuberant nature of how they support the club,

Some within the Green Brigade set themselves apart, they will justify and defect from the problems they create,to allow them to continue in their agenda to be seen to be ULTRAS first and foremost, being a Celtic fan among other Celtic fans is not their primary aim,
Remember earlier in the season, they boycotted the stadium,therefore the team to “HIGHLIGHT THEIR TREATMENT”
By all means,come along AND sing Celtic songs, but PLEASE leave YOUR pyro’s,YOUR moshing and YOUR body surfing along with YOUR politics outside the stadium,

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AllyjamboPosted on1:42 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Tif Finn says: (976)

December 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm

Wow, probably the best, and most honest, critique of TRFC since the whole shambles was born.

I particularly liked the way he shuffled around the OCNC issue with:

“Now Rule E states it’s a flat 15-point penalty for your first offence and 25 for a second if it happens within five years.

Take that to its conclusion and it could see their team start the Championship, potentially with Hearts, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk and a couple of other decent-sized sides, with both arms tied behind their back.”

It’s about the only piece of pandering to the mob in the whole article!

He’s made it clear he doesn’t really see any virtue in either side, which is a first for the SMSM, I think.

Well done Gordon Waddell, let’s see how your follow up pieces pan out!

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valentinesclownPosted on2:02 pm - Dec 8, 2013


From the DR
ALLY McCOIST last night revealed Rangers STILL haven’t taken the pay cut he offered to accept two months ago.
———————————————————————————————————————————
Nearly chocked on my lunch. The spivs refusing money. Aye right.
Here a spiv there a spiv everywhere a spiv spiv. Spivally seems genuinely sad about them not taking his pay cut.
How gullible does he think their fans are. In fact do not answer that.
When does the share lock in end?

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buddy_hollyPosted on2:05 pm - Dec 8, 2013


CarlisleCelt says: (91)
December 8, 2013 at 12:44 pm
3 0 Rate This

buddy_holly says: (88)

December 8, 2013 at 11:50 am

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CarlisleCelt says: (90)
December 8, 2013 at 10:59 am
10 4 Rate This

First let me say that the green brigade at celtic park have brought themselves to the attention of all and sundry for both good and bad reasons.

The banner which triggered the latest UEFA investigation was deliberately controversial though making a fair political point, though parkhead is not a olitical arena as such it is a football arena. If under the statement, one mans terrorists is another mans freedom fighter we would have had nelson mandela then the following events would have been highly intriguing.

Secondly, I condemn the vandalism at Motherwell on Friday night. I make no excuses for it, but how can it be identified that it WAS the green brigade. In the immediate aftermath of the TV pictures in the place I was, many RFC(IL)/SEVCO supporters immediately said it was the green brigade, A conclusion entirely based upon their supposition and hatred, furthered by the fact that there are not many identifiable celtic groups.

Thirdly, these are acts of individuals, they will be treated as such. Even when a group of individuals are acting poorly, unless there is some entity directly organising he behaviour it will be difficult to say that group X committed the behaviour. However if a group did organise the vandalism that in itself will lead to s different string of offences.

Fourthly, the changes in football to all seater all ticket games dragged the anonymity away from people. This is ebbing away quite a bit, especially in a half empty stadium you can sit where you want! It also leads to the conclusion that anonymity would increase with standing areas!

Fifthly, the scheduling of football for TV purposes has many foreseeable consequences, i was surprised that Motherwell v Celtic was chosen for a Friday night. Footballs continuing pursuit of higher commercial income from TV rights and sponsorship has eroded the saturday 3 pm game, though previously there was enough violence at Saturday 3 pm to destroy this as utopia.

Buddy
_________________________________________________________________________

I have no arguments with the majority of this. Does not address the demonization of the GB though!

I would observe that the green brigade can be viewed in various ways, by various people within Celtic FC, Celtic FC suuporters, within football, within scottish society and wider to the UK.

There is a mix of positives and negatives. AS in real life nothing is black and white.

Various parties are desperate for stories which have a go at Celtic FC, that is a Celtic FC which is financial well run, has a glamour CL game against FC Barcelona this week, is ahead in the league and has just managed 2 pretty impressive football results n the SPFL premiership.

It is very hard to have a go at Celtic FC at the moment, the green brigade are taking the flak for actions they may or may not have been directly involved within.

I would observe that some Celtic FC supporters see the green brigade as on balance non helpful to Celtic FC.

However, for others outside of Celtic FC and Celtic FC supporters, the green brigade because of their political leanings and ability to be identified are a group that the majority of the scottish population will be against.

Now the events of friday evening being immediately associated with the Green Brigade by people with no information or facts to decide upon who committed the damage is the jumping to conclusions that some people are desperate to do.

A lot of the reason for that is the green brigade have made a number of displays which have mocked RFC(IL) and now TRFCwith inalienable facts. For the supporters of RFC(IL) / TRFC this has now been about 3 years of mocking, which they have no end in sight to.

For the others in PR/MSM there are big problems with RIFC AGM. The best thing the RIFC current board can have is a “look at celtic” or “look at green brigade” moment. As that by making people be distracted will reduce the ability of the RIFC shareholders to organise against the current board.

So,lots of factors going on, there is not enough information for me to say if the events of friday are orchestrated by the green brigade.

I will get some direct feedback from Celtic Supporters I know wherea t the game (thanks to palacio for his post above!) and over the next few things other information will become evident.

I expect the damage to be tied to seat numbers and from here we can establish if those in the seats damaged where in the proper assigned seats (though i doubt so!) and then move on from there in establishing the chain of events on friday night.

Finally, I do not think anyone should be demonised. Someone may commit a heinous crime, you may not like it, you may hate it, but they are not evil, they are human beings same as you and I.
I do not think any group should be demonised, for the same reasons.

People take actions of their own free will and those actions have consequences.

Buddy

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buddy_hollyPosted on2:14 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Allyjambo says: (706)
December 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm
5 0 Rate This

Tif Finn says: (976)

December 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm

Yes , a very interesting article.

Unusually, neither pro RIFC board, or pro RIFC requisitioners.

Is this the start of a third front, in the RFC/TRFC/RIFC civil war.

I do not believe Gordon Waddell writes anything without his agenda being cleared!!

Buddy

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scottcPosted on2:19 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Hartsons Comb says: (20)
December 8, 2013 at 11:58 am
21 0 Rate This

scottc says: (380)
December 8, 2013 at 11:16 am

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HC, Please don’t think I don’t completely agree with your post; I do. My point was merely that the MSM are constantly pushing this ‘martyr Ally’ story giving up half his wages when that is just not the case at all.

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TartanwulverPosted on2:29 pm - Dec 8, 2013


buddy_holly says: (90)
December 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm

Yes , a very interesting article.
Unusually, neither pro RIFC board, or pro RIFC requisitioners.
Is this the start of a third front, in the RFC/TRFC/RIFC civil war.
——————————————————–
It points out what has been true all along, that the fans have the casting vote, if they want it, because it is obvious that to a large extent they supply the actual cash which determines what possibilities are open to their footballing organisation, and to those who run it. The fans’ options may be much more limited than they once were, but if they finally act (even if ironically they do so by collectively NOT doing something), they will force those in control of the purse strings to pay attention, or to reveal their true selves. It’s a big if, but if they can undertake concerted (in)action as regards paying out for tickets and merchandising, it would surely bring things to a head rather quickly.

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John ClarkPosted on3:20 pm - Dec 8, 2013


iceman63 says: (312)
December 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm
‘….I think the blog has fallen into the trap of conflating the actions of The Green Brigade and the vandals..’
———–
I agree. The two are quite different phenomena and have to be seen as such, albeit they are both related to ‘football’.
I am no spokesman for the GB.
But I am a supporter of sensible , well-balanced legislation in the field of public order, fairly and evenly applied by Police Scotland.
In the opinion of many who are not associated ,and would not wish to be associated, with the GB, the legislation now on the statute book is not sensible and well-balanced, and is decidedly NOT applied
fairly and evenly. Rather like the conflicted SFA, it appears to be monocular, designed to target one section of society.
The GB is perfectly within the rights that we all have to protest publicly against any unfairness in law, in the streets or at public meetings etc.(but probably not in a football stadium!). Mandela, anyone?
The ground could be cut from beneath them by the repeal of,or substantial amendment to what has been described as a pi.s-poor piece of on the hoof, ill-considered, knee-jerk reactionary legislation.

The vandalism of jaiked- up young scum is something else entirely. That’s been with us generally for decades, whether in or out of football, and in stadia throughout the UK.

Different ‘problems’, and different solutions are required.

But of course, in so far as both problems have some connection with football, it would help if the Football Authorities had not shown themselves to be fundamentally unworthy of trust and deserving of nothing but contempt for their own abandonment of notions of integrity and just dealings under their own rules.

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smartie1947Posted on3:46 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Regrettably, as I have a crucial chiropody appointment that day, coupled with the fact that I am a non-shareholder, I will be unable to attend the Sevco AGM later this month.
For casualties such as I, would it be possible for the proceedings to be relayed live on Youtube, as was such a success at the recent Fans Forum. With no Xmas Morecambe and Wise spectacular to look forward to, this might be the highlight of my festive viewing.

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AllyjamboPosted on3:53 pm - Dec 8, 2013


buddy_holly says: (90)

December 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm

I do not believe Gordon Waddell writes anything without his agenda being cleared!!
____________________________________________

Totally agree, but at least his agenda, and reality, are coinciding somewhat. This, as so often pointed out by RTC and many others, has not always been the case, well, until now, has never been the case. A new player (or old, but not on the scene for a while) about to enter the spotlight?

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auchinstarryPosted on4:11 pm - Dec 8, 2013


It would seem the GB discussion is becoming the new OCNC subject. Whilst its relevance and importance is apparent and seems to have quelled a few agandas which had bogged us down.
Through the decades trends and supporter cults have changed and through the evolution process disappeared. At Celtic Park I remember the gangs playing a big part fan culture,” The Shamrock ” being the one I recall most vividly from the 60s and early 70s. Then with the help of “A Clockwork Orange” the Boot bhoys were born……..and so it went on. And on.
Having watched the GB in action albeit from a distance, it would certainly seem they do add a touch of atmosphere to the Stadium. That is the only plus side. I have read from time to time of their demands for Celtic to “negotiate ” with them on matters they felt relevant. I for one just do not get that. As other posters have said , their Primary threat was to withdraw their support… If the depth of the support they offer the club is so shallow then tough, but goodbye. The dummy gets spat right out.
Surely the sole objective of being involved in supporting a club is just that, to support the club. On the field, off the field, Never forgetting when you pull on the replica shirt or the scarf you are representing that club on the street, in public. The Last thing a club needs are people misrepresenting them. Especially in these times of Austerity. The Last thing a club needs is a fan group who feel their level of importance is actually bigger than the club.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on4:14 pm - Dec 8, 2013


“Questions, though. Do the Rangers support really have the collective stomach to hold the pillow over the head of their club?”

Do they have the brain to realise that precedent tells them another debt-free head will soon follow, anyway? Campbell will see to that.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on4:21 pm - Dec 8, 2013


valentinesclown says: (292)
December 8, 2013 at 2:02 pm
From the DR
ALLY McCOIST last night revealed Rangers STILL haven’t taken the pay cut he offered to accept two months ago.
——————————————————————————————————————————— Nearly chocked on my lunch. The spivs refusing money. Aye right.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Spot on VC
Spivs never never never refuse money
So why did they decided not to halve Allys pay?
Simple really
Ally`s contract would have to be broken if his salary was being adjusted downwards
And
His employer would have to initiate cancelling his old contract first and then offering him a new contract
All Ally had to do was to legally accept his contract had been cancelled and then legally refuse to accept the new contract even if it was identical to the first one.
He is not in limbo when his contract is cancelled
He is effectively sacked and thus
Is entitled to exercise the golden farewell package in his contract
and
Be released from the lock in on 1m shares which he is free to sell on the open market ahead of anybody else
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Meaning
The real reason he is still on his original salary and benefits is because he has never concluded a deal to cancel his contract
Methinks
The release of this information into the public domain is Step 1 by the Spivs in plugging a leak ahead of putting TRFC into Administration
Step2 will be releasing more incriminating information linking Ally to the Spivs
Step3 will be firing Ally

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Tif FinnPosted on4:31 pm - Dec 8, 2013


What Mr Waddell fails to address, what they all fail to address, is what happens even if the requisitioners win and if the fans do not boycott and still buy their season tickets and merchandise.

What then, what plan do the Murrays and their cabal have to make it a viable business.

It hasn’t been one for decades, it isn’t one just now, how are they going to do it when everyone else has failed.

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Kilgore TroutPosted on4:35 pm - Dec 8, 2013


buddy_holly @ 2:05pm

People take actions of their own free will and those actions have consequences.

These days, that is pretty well my philosophy on life (having learned it a rather hard way, but that’s not for here and now! 🙂 )

Those responsible for the dangerous behaviour and vandalism on Friday night may or may not be members of some self-defining group or another.
And I agree with john clarke that the two subjects are separate .

But as individuals, they have chosen to do what they did and there will be consequences for them.
Personally I hope these consequences turn out to be swift and include them never seeing the inside a Scottish football stadium again.

Rather conveniently, the smoke from all this has proved useful for another set of individuals whose actions still await their consequences.

For instance, it has aIlowed the ‘news’ of Mr McCoist’s harrowing struggle to have his wages reduced to be reported while the eyes of those ultimately paying them may be gleefully looking the other way.

If I was a better person then I’m sure I would feel some sympathy for those currently being played in the biggest scam in Scottish Football ever but, hey, I’m not, so I don’t.
They are choosing to go along with the idea that all these nice people only have their best interests at heart despite all the evidence to the contrary.
The consequences of this will be for them to deal with.
I’ll no doubt allow myself a certain amount of ‘I told you so’ type satisfaction at the time but, longer term, I won’t be interested.

However, it’s the actions of those like Mr McCoist that deserve real condemnation.
I refuse to believe that he is anything other than fully complicit in the scam and is milking it for as much money as he possibly can.
He is one of the few involved in the whole farce at Ibrox who really could have been a game changer if he had so chosen.
Instead he chose to play the well-remunerated role of the smiling public mask.

He, amongst many other worthy contenders, is the one who truly turns my stomach.
When (I get the feeling it’s no longer ‘if’) this hypocritical Useful Idiot has to face the consequences of his actions I will allow myself to savour every single second of it.

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RyanGoslingPosted on4:53 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I doubt those at Motherwell view it as rather convenient smoke.

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scapaflowPosted on5:14 pm - Dec 8, 2013


Firstly, The GB have been consistent in saying that they will do what they like, when they like, and how they like, with any consequences, be they, damaged seats at Celtic park or anywhere else, or fines from UEFA or the SFA, strictly Celtic’s problem. Their attitude reminds me more than a little of the SWP. Given the attitude of the “grown up” element in the GB, I am not in the least surprised if the younger element behaves in a more extreme fashion. To me the GB hand washing is just a further example of their irresponsibility.

Secondly, Mr McCoist is at it, whatever way this pans out, Mr McCoists’s reputation with Rangers fans will take a hammering, I hope the bank balance will be worth it to him….

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davythelotionPosted on5:19 pm - Dec 8, 2013


As the AGM bogeymen come into view, Ally has decided to disclose that he hasn’t taken a pay cut. Like the calm before the storm, Jack is using the opportunity to batten the hatches and seal up as many leaks as he can. Unfortunately for him he is fighting against the most invidious circumstance, self-interest.
On one side, Real Rangers Men, watching penny shares settle at 25p, clearing a nice little earner. On the other side, the mugs who stumped up 70p per share seeing their investment dwindling to near nothing, the money they raised having gone towards paying the extraordinary costs of selling shares in the first place.
Mr Somers will be well advised to familiarise himself with an exit strategy.
Will the AGM take the opportunity to update shareholders about the’ Greiggate’ report?
Will the faceless, nameless individuals who has passed proxy to the Rons be revealed?
Will Smudger do his stand-up?

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Exiled CeltPosted on6:19 pm - Dec 8, 2013


tomtom says: (516)

December 8, 2013 at 8:01 am

Exiled,

Ernie is also dead.

**********

News travels slowly to the Midwest 🙂 But does not invalidate the argument!

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GoosyGoosyPosted on6:32 pm - Dec 8, 2013


davythelotion says: (268)

December 8, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Mr Somers will be well advised to familiarise himself with an exit strategy.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Spivs deal with Spivs all the time
People who believe they are not Spivs sometimes deal with them in a forlorn hope that they can play a straight bat and still outwit them.This rarely succeeds
BUT
People who knowingly take a job working for Spivs are either fools or submerged Spivs who have judged it worthwhile to come into the open for a one off megadeal
Recent comments by Somers fall easily into the same basket as those made by Green and Whyte etc
i.e. Barefaced halftruths made in the knowledge that they are only here for short term gain I would be astonished if Somers is on a salary. More likely he is on a fixed lump sum in exchange for some well defined dirty work. he will be gone before the end of the season but not before the end of RIFC
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Administration of TRFC ,Assets to RIFC,
Liquidation of RIFC
Assets to an offshore Creditor of RIFC
Sale of the TRFC brand for £1 is where this mess has always been
heading

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paulsatimPosted on6:35 pm - Dec 8, 2013


FFS, look at conditions they’re playing American Football in Philly

http://i44.tinypic.com/wcclqd.png

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Tif FinnPosted on6:37 pm - Dec 8, 2013


I see Paul Murray is a director of Vicast Limited, he joined the board in February this year. Other directors include Martin Bain and John McLelland. Bain appears to be one of the original directors.

Murray also owns 13.5% of the business, with Bain owning 22.7% and McLelland owning 13.27%

http://vicast.co.uk/index.php

I wonder if the Rangers support know that Murray joined up with Martin Bain in this way.

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