A consortium led by David Low has been in talks with Sir Tom Farmer seeking to purchase Hibernian Football Club. The story has been embargoed for a few weeks, but David agreed to speak to TSFM to give us an exclusive interview and provide us with information about his intentions for the Edinburgh club.
Highlights of the interview include the similarities and differences between the Hibs situation and the one he found at Celtic Pak in 1994; how Scottish Football’s “new level playing field” as Low calls it has created an opportunity for a club like Hibs to be the main challenger to Celtic for honours; the contrast of his consortium’s approach to that of the recent debacle at Ibrox; the role of the fans at every level of the club; the future of Allan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster; and the journey back to the Premiership.
Low is frank about his reputation as a well-known Celtic fan, but highlights his Hibbee credentials and his affection for the club, eschewing the “I was always a Hibbee” line taken by so many people seeking to ingratiate themselves with the locals at various clubs.
Certainly, the experience and finance rolling around Low’s consortium is something that any club could do with, but the fans are crucial to their involvement and interest.
He says he won’t go ahead with the purchase unless the fans are behind them.
“Fans have never been so powerful as they are today, especially with the advent of social media like TSFM”
“We have seen in recent years what a body of fans are capable of when they re together”
“We want to have that togetherness at Hibs, because the only way forward is to have trust between the boardroom and the fans, you only have to look at the levels of distrust between board and fans at Rangers to see that it is a recipe for disaster”
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:17 am
I agree. He could do the decent thing and resign and pay back the money he stole pretending to be a football manager and actually try and help the club out, absolutely, but as far as I’m aware he did not receive any money via the EBT scheme. But a very popular post here seems to be of the opinion that he did.
Maybe we’re both wrong.
The Glen
1.28
He left Rangers employ in 1998 the year before they started using ebts but returned in 2007 the year of the police raid that uncovered side letters.
Rangers used them after that but on a lesser degree. He may have one, he may not but not as a player.
Talking to an ICTFC director in the pub tobight. Reckons No TRFC in top flights costs us £700K a year. And all those win bonuses and clean sheets aren’t helping the balance sheet. 🙄
But we’ll cope. 😛
Confident that despite this there is NO appetite for any quarter to be given in the event of a subsequent Ibrox insolvency. Clubs are neiher amused nor sympathetic w.r.t. Ibrox shenanigans. Sympathy for the fans however… but this does not extend to putting the wishes of their own fans secondary.
Last chance Saloon I reckon. Time for a charm offensive, perhaps, Sons of Struth?.
Feeling is Ashley is infinitely preferable to King. King really NOT respected it seems. *Highly likely to be black balled.
* Non libelous/legally contentious translation.
Oh and:
“Ally McCoist does not and never has lived in the real world. It is probably going to be quite a shock for him!”
Hardly contentious or insightful. But perhaps explains yesterdays hissy fit.
justshatered says:
August 30, 2014 at 11:34 pm
This crisis is actually worse than 2012. Then the authorities had two months to shoehorn the new club into the system. Now they will be attempting to do it in mid-season while giving them the points of the deceased club and allowing the new club to remain in the Championship.
=========================================
Agree with you 100%. Yet after it happens, they will still talk of sugar daddies and their ‘rightful place’, rather than taking the opportunity to finally admit living within your means is the only option. We would also be entitled to ask the SFA if excessive debt then insolvency is a passageway right to the top for them – not that the SFA would answer us of course.
Following up on UtH’s point. The Orange Count twitter suggesting last night that fitba heid yins working to prop up the club winning with players it can not afford. If true, where is the fair play in this?
I suppose a very rainy Sunday morning is as good a time as any to post @ToshWatters hilarious tweet which is doing the rounds:
Danish
To be fair…the SFA provided the same assistance to Gretna when they were in their death throws. However I would expect the governing body to be all over the club like a rash…due to the serious nature of what they are having to do.
If the information is true…then I believe the rest of Scottish football deserves to know how much has been provided? And what that figure is based on?
RSL,
We’re back to semantics I know but the point I trust you reinforced to your director is that yes a competitive sustainable RFC* back competing is preferable (700k = preferable). But this sham organisation with its arrogant element in the support, it’s sycophantic media and base requirement for subsidy isn’t it and I suspect never will be.
Paulmac2 says:
August 31, 2014 at 8:44 am
1 0 Rate This
If the information is true…then I believe the rest of Scottish football deserves to know how much has been provided? And what that figure is based on?
———–
You’re absolutely right Paul. As you point out, though, it’s the secrecy. You can understand a national body attempting to help a member club in extremis, but is it part of a concerted attempt to help the club get its finance in order? Are they seriously cutting costs?
If money is in fact being advanced (it is just a twitter rumour) is it going to maintain a team that can pump Clyde paying wages to players they can’t afford? You have to wonder what the point is — it could be the equivalent passing another wee half-bottle to an alcoholic.
The same tweeter mentioned that the 5-Way has been torn up. Of course, @AnOrangeCount may be a complete wind-up merchant!
upthehoops says:
August 30, 2014 at 9:44 pm
44 3 Rate This
Hello all. Tonight I met a bunch of really fine men I know who were at the TRFC game today. Those fine men not being happy is putting it mildly.
We had a great chat though. Their argument is Scottish football really is s*it now.
————————————————————————
IMO it is good s*it and it is also fair s*it. When Govan team returns to top table (if this ever happens) then it could all go down the pan.
Hmm. He might. Did Mr McCoist bother to invest in the IPO though? We know he had 1m shares in TRFC which would have been converted to RIFC. At the AGM last year, he transferred the proxy on his … wait for it … one million shares to a Rangers Supporters Club. He may have bought IPO shares in his children’s names of course.
That’s been mentioned on RR and as far as I can recall, it is correct
I guess there will be a payment for upcoming stadium rental for the Scotland game. That won’t have anything to do with the SPFL though. If they are involved too, then there might be some advancing of TV monies, I suppose. Desperate stuff though
Why would the SFA help a club fulfil SPFL fixtures? Did their representative not suggest that was nothing to do with them?
Were Gretna assisted mid-season, a time when selling players for funds was not an option? The Ibrox club have so far failed to use the transfer window to help themselves but can get early payments from SFA and SPFL? If true, that doesn’t seem right. Not that funding the Gretna spendfest was.
Danish – thanks for mentioning that scoreline again. As unfair as the situation is, we could have played Clyde reserves that night and still lost heavily.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:22 am
2 0 Rate This
———
Sorry. Arsenal let in eight the other season so you’re in good company. Would it have been such a cricket score with Duffy in charge?
The scoreline turned into a bit of an unpleasant triumph fest and looking at yesterday’s scoreline you wonder if QoS would have run out winners had it not been for the fact that TRFC have a pretty decent squad of players. Bringing on Tempelton is all very well, but should he be on the books at all?
On the rumour of the authorities providing cash advances to keep Sevco on the road…
I know I should probably ignore this until there is evidence but I have to say IF this happened it would be completely inappropriate in my opinion and in no way comparable with previous examples of clubs being helped to the end of the season.
Firstly it cannot happen in secret – it needs to be publicly available information as in previous examples. A statement should be made to the press to save confusion and rumour mongering.
Secondly, this shouldn’t happen at all unless the club FIRSTLY takes extreme measures to cut costs – stripping the squad back to the bones. Clearly this is not happening.
Lastly, if should only happen if the authorities are convinced that by providing some funds in advance the club in question will be able to meet all their fixture demands to the end of the season.
Its would be totally unacceptable for them to throw money at a club that only just signed new players a few weeks ago, that has only just started its season, that has taken no real action to cut playing staff/expenses and that is clearly breaking all the FFP rules in place to prevent clubs from winning with teams they simply cannot afford.
Essentially the authorities would be funding financial doping of their own competitions.
Thinking it through, surely its just not possible our authorities could stoop THIS low?
Got to be a only rumour.
Floc
You are completely correct…a club who makes no effort to reduce its cost base and increase its cash flow by selling players within the transfer window…yet expects hand outs…does not warrant the help it requires if it is not prepared to help itself.
TRFC do indeed have a pretty decent squad of players for the division they are in.
It would be even better if they could actually afford that squad.
Matty Roth says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:52 am
========
It’s difficult to see the basis of anyone advancing cash to a club in the current circumstances:
The SFA would be obliged to do the same for every member club.
The SFA would be staving off an administration event thereby avoiding a points deduction, this would be grossly unfair on other member clubs AND contrary to the rules.
The SFA would be involving itself financially in an extremely risky gamble.
Past behaviour is a strong indicator of future outcomes. Apparently despite begging Dave King, Mike Ashley and now the shareholders, Ally has signed another keeper!
So why this rumour?
The share offer is not underwritten, perhaps the point of this rumour is to effectively underwrite the club’s immediate future in order to instil confidence in shareholders who are being asked to go back to the well for some very murky water.
The obvious question for our illustrious SMSM is…why is the club making an open offer…that has players it can sell that kills 2 birds with 1 stone? It stinks like bucket of prawns in the midday sun! That reminds me…where is my sunbed?
One for the biz guys.
Is there any advantage in having assurances regarding underwriting the share issue – but keeping that news private? (A claim made to me this AM).
Intuitively, I would think that a public undertaking to scoop up the shares would build confidence and shore up the current share price – but I am also aware that business matters are often counter-intuitive.
Matty Roth says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:52 am
7 0 Rate This
On the rumour ….
———
Good points. Yes, it is just a rumour. I seem to remember the colourful count posting some some stuff previously that seemed relevant. May be complete bollocks, though. Problem is, how do you find out? The heid yins behave as though they are members of a secret society.
Matty Roth says:
Essentially the authorities would be funding financial doping of their own competitions.
ach,well at least its not our money this time round that’s keeping them going.
unless they take it from their grant money, then I suppose it is.
they should just buy us all shares.
scottc says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:04 am
The Glen says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:06 am
Scottish Football certainly needs a strong Arbroath, but did McCoist receive payments via the EBT scheme?
——————————————————-
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:17 am
Could be wrong, but I don’t think he did. He could use some of his extraordinarily generous salary package, to invest in the new share issue though
——————————————————
Hmm. He might. Did Mr McCoist bother to invest in the IPO though? We know he had 1m shares in TRFC which would have been converted to RIFC. At the AGM last year, he transferred the proxy on his … wait for it … one million shares to a Rangers Supporters Club. He may have bought IPO shares in his children’s names of course.
That’s been mentioned on RR and as far as I can recall, it is correct
—————————————————————–
IIRC there were some unnamed EBT recipients in the BBC expose. One hack actually did ask AM if he had one and his response to me was evasive, something like “Side letters you mean? Naw”.
Would still be a good question to pose to AM though…..who are these people with EBTs, etc?
Scottish Football needs transparency from the football authorities at this crucial time.
Seems the intrepid Keith Jackson is investigating the rumour:
Back to the EBTs – surely AM et al will be asking all those Real Rangers Men who received EBTs to pay them back directly to the clumpany in its’ time of need? They are loans after all, aren’t they?
Or even make a loan to the clumpany equivalent to the EBT value? Or perhaps offer to buy new shares? Aye, right.
Scottish Football needs HMRC to ensure they are not duped again!
Danish
“secret society”? You’ll make me paranoid!
I suppose that by keeping such an arrangement quiet, it sufficiently undermines the public takeup ensuring the ‘underwriter’ increases his/her stake. Would they do the silent underwriting by subscribing for 19m shares using the extended offer facility? This would be much the same idea as I suggested Mr Letham using to convert his loan into shares.
Big Pink says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:11 am
3 0 Rate This
One for the biz guys.
Is there any advantage in having assurances regarding underwriting the share issue – but keeping that news private? (A claim made to me this AM).
Intuitively, I would think that a public undertaking to scoop up the shares would build confidence and shore up the current share price – but I am also aware that business matters are often counter-intuitive.
============================
I’m certainly not knowledgeable in any business advantage to this but could it be as simple as avoiding creating the false sense of security that might result in fan shareholders not investing because they believe other will put their money into the club instead.
I’m certain that was part of the problem with reaching the fan “contribution” of the original IPO. A sort of complacency aligned with a preference to let other people pay for their football club.
Big Pink says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:11 am
Is there any advantage in having assurances regarding underwriting the share issue – but keeping that news private? (A claim made to me this AM).
_____________________________________
BP, as they mentioned in their statement, any shareholders can apply for more shares than they are allocated, so, someone wanting to scoop up shares, for whatever reason, can legally apply for all the shares on offer knowing they will receive all those not applied for. Why anyone would want to do this, is anyone’s guess, unless there is spiv-motivation involved. It may be being kept secret because:
a) they want to increase their holding to as high a figure as possible, and don’t want to create any confidence amongst possible investors with money they want rid of, thus reducing the pot.
b) they might break some regulation by making such an announcement.
c) it might be illegal or not allowed under the regulations (a free/low cost underwriting?)
It would, one would expect, only be in the interest of an investor, or group of investors, with a cunning money making scheme to do this.
This might very well tie in with DP’s post re possible SFA/SPFL financial assistance. Have the football authorities been made aware of this plan and so been given the confidence for yet another secret deal?
Going by precedent, the beaks withheld RFC’s prize money and refused to give it to TRFC. One would think, given TRFC’s perilous position, that the football authorities would think long and hard before donating any of their dwindling funds (no sponsorship etc) without confidence that TRFC will make it to the point they are actually due this money. Perhaps rumours of a ‘ghost’ underwriter is the kind of thing spivs might put about if they want to convince a sycophantic SFA/SPFL that all is not so bad as long as they can see their way through the next few weeks.
Danish Pastry says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:42 am
Re the rumour, no idea if its true, but,
If you adopt a “We are where we are” approach, it could reasonably be argued that it would be a sensible route to avoid the chaos of a club going under mid season.
Doesn’t absolve the authorities from their responsibilities vis a vis the root causes of the problem.
The amazing thing is the Scottish football authorities letting them start the season in the first place.
There were warnings from the auditors about the business if season ticket sales were not kept at least at the same level. Season ticket sales were down around 40%. Seriously, no-one in authority put these two things together and had worries about them being able to play the entire season.
Auldheid and others, thanks for the replies.
Given that an ex-manager was “loaned” money, I appreciate that it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the current one took advantage of such a gift.
And yet…
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-rangers-director-imran-ahmad-fails-3506152
Danish Pastry says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:42 am
Seems the intrepid Keith Jackson is investigating the rumour:
@tedermeatballs
@FrPaulStone @DarrylBroadfoot will check. Hadn’t heard it.
10:11am – 31 Aug 14
=============================
Phew !
We can all stand down then: Keef is on the case! 😯
But I would guess that the SFA have been in discussions with TRFC for some time already, and that another, perhaps a ‘2 Way Secret Agreement’ is already in effect ?
But any club which has publicly declared – again – that it has real concerns about its survival, and whilst it’s still the month of August – MUST be a major concern not just to the SFA, but to all Championship clubs, other clubs – and most importantly to the paying customers.
And any further secrecy around TRFC and the SFA will just disillusion / alienate the fans even more.
BP
The only advantage is to put off existing shareholders by claiming there is no under writing of the offer…however that is sailing close to the wind…to knowingly claim there is no underwriting…when in fact there is…by way of a gentlemans agreement is questionable. One would expect they would have to openy underwrite or apply for the full share offer? I would check with AIM but I’m on a sunbed right now 😆
On this possible SFA/SPFL assistance to TRFC. I believe that it is part of the authorities duties to give assistance to ailing member clubs as this would, ordinarily, be in the best interest of all members.
But.
Repeat offenders (and the authorities wish to treat TRFC as RFC(IL)) who are moving into an insolvency event, an easily predictable event, one predicted by a great many people continuously since the last event, where money has been spent with no mind to their duty to the other member clubs, where two league titles have been won while spending their way to this next event, where the length of time (a full season) to reach the point where any monies might be due creates great doubt as to their ability to fulfil their fixtures, where the board of the club involved cast doubts on their ability to last, even with a hoped for £4m input within the next two weeks…
In these circumstances, no monies, as yet unearned/won, should be handed over. So far, they have only earned monies due for winning matches in the Challenge and League Cups. That money could be honestly and fairly passed to TRFC.
Scottish football needs to hold onto whatever money it has.
Paulmac2 says:
August 31, 2014 at 11:49 am
Such a hypothetical strategy, would undoubtedly lead to a great deal of business for Sue, Grabbit & Run, the CPS, Police, AIM, Uncle Tom Cobley and all
On the rumour, the truly sad thing is that so low is belief in the trustworthiness of our Football Authorities, that almost any kind of jiggery-pokery can be expected from them, as the noose they made for their own necks tightens perceptibly.
To my mind, it would not be totally off the wall if someone suggested that King may have opened ‘private’ talks with the SFA and RIFC plc with a view to underwriting the share offer.He may also be talking to LP separately.
We know that he is a grittily persistent character who, like SDM does not suffer defeat gladly but who, unlike that cheat, can afford to sit things out because his business ’empire’ is at present not under immediate threat of collapse. He will want to get his own back, and get his own way.
And now might be an opportune time, if he square the SFA.
Big Pink’s informant (see his post at 10.11 a.m.)might have heard something with a grain of truth behind it.
BP
Now I think about it…that would constitute insider trading…to knowingly with hold share related information for the sole benefit of 1 current shareholder would be challengable…however proving there was a gentlemans agreement is the difficult part.
If I had received an EBT from the old Rangers I would be very reluctant to use any of it to support New Rangers until I was 100% sure the liquidator is not going to be chasing me for it if the HMRC eventually wins it’s appeal! Also it seems that the big shredder lorry is still at Ibrox but now it’s money that’s being shredded along with reputations.
Totally OT, but I just a minute ago went into our bedroom which has a view of the artificial ski-slope on Caerketton Hill in the Pentlands.In the time since I looked at the view when I got up this morning and there just now the huge word “YES” has appeared on the hillside. Now I must be at least a mile away as the crow flies, but the white letters are HUGE. No idea whether they’ve been painted on or whether they’re paper or bedsheets or whatever.The effect is the same as seeing the big chalk man and the white horse carved out in wherever it is in England. Quite extraordinary.
Wonder what it can mean!
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 11:16 am
1 0 Rate This
Big Pink says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:11 am
Is there any advantage in having assurances regarding underwriting the share issue – but keeping that news private? (A claim made to me this AM).
_____________________________________
BP, as they mentioned in their statement, any shareholders can apply for more shares than they are allocated, so, someone wanting to scoop up shares, for whatever reason, can legally apply for all the shares on offer knowing they will receive all those not applied for. Why anyone would want to do this, is anyone’s guess, unless there is spiv-motivation involved. It may be being kept secret because:
a) they want to increase their holding to as high a figure as possible, and don’t want to create any confidence amongst possible investors with money they want rid of, thus reducing the pot.
b) they might break some regulation by making such an announcement.
c) it might be illegal or not allowed under the regulations (a free/low cost underwriting?)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It would, one would expect, only be in the interest of an investor, or group of investors, with a cunning money making scheme to do this.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yep
Spot on AJ
Thats the answer
1 Frighten a shareholder group with a sizeable holding to sell at the current sp
2 Mop up just enough of the Open offer to get the Spivs over 75% when added to 1.
(Without paying cash upfront for the shares)
3 Pass the 75% resolution to issue zillions more shares
4 Allocate enough freebie shares to the Spivs to get their holding well over 90% by diluting the minority holders
5 Put TRFC into a friendly administration and transfer the assets to RIFC en route to an offshore home. Concurrently lock TRFC into a long term onerous lease
6 Pay the friendly Administrator by slashing TRFC costs to the bone
7 Put the carcass up for sale with a rented stadium
8 Sit tight and let the friendly Administrator take the flak
Paulmac2 says:
August 31, 2014 at 11:58 am
Exactly
John Clark says:
August 31, 2014 at 12:09 pm
That will have spoilt a few breakfasts in the very posh part of Edinburgh
We know that he is a grittily persistent character who, like SDM does not suffer defeat gladly but who, unlike that cheat, can afford to sit things out because his business ‘empire’ is at present not under immediate threat of collapse.
====================================
I fully accept that it is reasonable to call SDM a cheat. However when doing so and comparing him with the other chap is probably worth mention his own convictions, 41 counts of fraud which he pled guilty to in the South African High Court.
Now that’s the sort of person you want to ask to underwrite share issues or provide you with loans.
Danish Pastry says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:16 am
The heid yins behave as though they are members of a secret society.
_________________________________________
Nicely done
John Clark says:
August 31, 2014 at 12:09 pm
Totally OT, but I just a minute ago went into our bedroom which has a view of the artificial ski-slope…the huge word “YES” has appeared on the hillside.
——————————————————-
Thanks for the tipoff, have duly amazed my family by pointing it out. (NB I gave due credit to this blog!)
16 Sodium Atoms says:
August 31, 2014 at 12:23 pm
‘…Now that’s the sort of person you want to ask to underwrite share issues or provide you with loans.’
——-
Just to be clear, I personally am no supporter of Dave King,and think he ought properly to have been jailed.
The point I was making was that our Football Authorities are not deserving of anything but suspicion, and would be happy once again to forget ‘integrity’ even it meant dealing with devil himself. The other point was that while SDM was a cheat, and Dave King a convicted criminal, SDM was broke, and, as far as we know, King still has a shekel or two. And is probably still sniffing around looking to pick up TRFC on the cheap.
paulmac2 you have a PM. Sorry folks!
John Clark says:
August 31, 2014 at 12:09 pm
Totally OT, but I just a minute ago went into our bedroom which has a view of the artificial ski-slope on Caerketton Hill in the Pentlands.In the time since I looked at the view when I got up this morning and there just now the huge word “YES” has appeared on the hillside. Now I must be at least a mile away as the crow flies, but the white letters are HUGE. No idea whether they’ve been painted on or whether they’re paper or bedsheets or whatever.The effect is the same as seeing the big chalk man and the white horse carved out in wherever it is in England. Quite extraordinary.
Wonder what it can mean!
…………………………………………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Vexing, really, that people should be so underhand as to
Obsessively slip political references into
The debate about football here, slyly
Encouraging us, they probably hope, to
Yield to their (wholly subjective) way of thinking.
Everyone here can agree that these disgraceful messages must stop.
Subliminal or otherwise.
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:34 pm
Removing the politics from this particular footballing story is akin to removing oil from water – very difficult
oddjob says:
August 30, 2014 at 11:19 am
76 0 Rate This
I always believed that Ernst and Young were one of the top accountancy firms in the world. I still do. The partners must cringe each time their “football expert” says things like ” since coming out of administration” when ,he is in fact referring to a business which has gone from administration to liquidation.
The SMSM are frequently chastised on this forum for such comments, and rightly so, even though they are not accredited experts in financial matters.
We should expect more accuracy from Neil Patey, and, perhaps more importantly, so should his employers.
=================================================================
I feel it is time a did a “John Clark(e) on this one, and wrote to Ernst & Young on this one…requesting clarification on this newly minted term “coming out of administration”.
I also feel the need to write to my beloved Institute, direct to the CEO Anton Colella, that there may be a prima facie case for a complaint that he is bringing the “profession” into disrepute…but I will not hold my breath on that one since he has not committed any capital offence…yet.
All I ask of my fellow partners tomorrow morning is just half an hour to do so…!
essexbeancounter says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:58 pm
You’re in good company, Big Bro admits to feeling like hiding behind the sofa every time he comes on.
Campbellsmoney says:
August 30, 2014 at 12:56 pm
7 16 Rate This
Oddjob and 16 Sodium
Both Neil Patey and yourselves are being lax with terminology.
FTAO this is not an aspect of the OCNC “debate”.
===================================================================
Campbellsmoney…semantics notwithstanding, any comment of this nature, coming, allegedly from a spokeperson representing, intentionally or otherwise, one of the major four global accountancy firms, should be absolutely spot on and “not lax” in the context of the terminology, as you so correctly point out.
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:04 pm
1 0 Rate This
essexbeancounter says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:58 pm
You’re in good company, Big Bro admits to feeling like hiding behind the sofa every time he comes on.
==========================================================================
Scapa…I do recall you mentioning this before…at least I am spared the Scottish editions of the news (dons tin hat quickly!)
essexbeancounter says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:09 pm
Alas the chances of the Institute’s Supreme Soviet taking any action, are about the same as my getting picked for the next Scotland squad.
I hasten to add, the accountant i deal with, is very good and straight as a die
Thanks Jean. pm reply
How much money King has is irrelevant. If the Scottish football authorities have deemed Craig Whyte unfit then how on Earth can King not be the same.
Not only has he been convicted of 41 counts of fraud he was also on the Rangers board at the time of it’s demise, or shortly before. He was part of the regime which didn’t pay it’s social taxes and part of the regime which sold to Whyte.
How could he possibly be considered a fit an proper person to own or run a football club.
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:34 pm
Vexing, really, that people should be so underhand as to
Obsessively slip political references into
The debate about football here, slyly
Encouraging us, they probably hope, to
Yield to their (wholly subjective) way of thinking.
Everyone here can agree that these disgraceful messages must stop.
Subliminal or otherwise.
………………………………………………………………..
………………………………………………………………..
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Removing the politics from this particular footballing story is akin to removing oil from water – very difficult
……………………………………………………………….
……………………………………………………………….
Very well put, I agree.
Overwhelmingly so, in fact.
The realisation that we’re not at odds may
Eventually come to you, and
Yet, as we wait for the penny to drop,
Everyone should just get along in the meantime,
Scapa.
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:16 pm
3 0 Rate This
essexbeancounter says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:09 pm
Alas the chances of the Institute’s Supreme Soviet taking any action, are about the same as my getting picked for the next Scotland squad.
I hasten to add, the accountant i deal with, is very good and straight as a die
===========================================================================
…that’s two of us then…!
16 Sodium Atoms says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:37 pm
How could he possibly be considered a fit an proper person to own or run a football club.
==================================
The reason King will be considered a fit an proper person to own or run a football club is simply because of the football club he may attempt to become involved with. There is more chance of me scoring the winner for Scotland next week than there is of the SFA stopping King, should be make his move.
upthehoops says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:07 pm
I thought the whole fit and proper thing was a red herring? Isn’t it simply a matter of the Club/Company sec certifying the individual as fit and proper?
Essex
I would say 3, but I can’t remember the last time big brother bought a round 😉
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/peter-lawwell-admits-rangers-absence-from-top-flight-has-left-celtic-with-a-10m-black.25192380
Here’s a taster- “PETER LAWWELL last night admitted for the first time that Celtic are being forced into selling players to make up for a £10 million black hole caused by the annual absence of Rangers from the top flight of Scottish football.”
The propaganda war ratchets up- Lawell wants “Rangers” so badly that it hurts. Everything that can be done, will be done (yet again) to ensure that a team in blue continues tp play at Ibrox. Maybe Lawell will persuade Celtic to somehow underwrite the share offer. Would I be surprised? Not a bit.
If Rangers are so short of cash, then why is it that they currently have no home tickets on sale at the moment. They have home games against ICT in the League Cup and Hibs in the League within the next four weeks.
Do the directors know something we don’t about what’s happening in the next couple of weeks?
neepheid says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Trouble is it flies in the face of the reality on the ground. Folk can hanker after the return of a Strong Rangers as much as they like, it’s not going to happen for years, and quite possibly never.
Rangers are where they are, and no amount of dicking about by the SPFL or the SFA is going to change the financial fundamentals.
Its over, move on , and start looking to improve Scottish Football as it exists in 2014.
I wasn’t suggesting for a second they would do the right thing UTH. There is no chance of that where that club is concerned, as I said earlier they shouldn’t even have been allowed to play this season because of their financial position and the fact that it was pointed out by their auditors prior to the season starting.
I was just pointing out that, given his background there should be no question of Dave King being considered fit and proper. For the reasons stated in my last. He is a convicted fraudster, who has previous in Scottish football with regard to not paying social taxes and presiding over the demise of a Scottish football club.
EasyJambo says
August 31 2014 @ 3.34pm
Could there be a problem with the printers?
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:39 pm
2 2 Rate This
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:34 pm
#####
YES! Agree emphatically!
BP / GG / AJ
I can’t see anyone underwriting RIFC on the quiet.
There are circumstances where it would be in the interests of someone to do this in order to potentially pick up shares from an opposing voting block. I can’t see this being an issue for RIFC. There may be a block of shareholders who want to attain 75% control, but who would want to prevent that?
75% represents the level required for a further share dilution in order to try to save the entity. To oppose that is to actively try to zero out the value of your own shares. Any opposing shareholders wouldn’t waste time on that and would just write the value off and if RIFC survives then they have a windfall.
It’s possible that there are factions competing for control and jockeying for position in order to buy as many new shares (after the AGM) as possible, but the likelihood of this is vanishingly small, otherwise someone would just have bought shares for control, as Phil keeps making clear to them.
Finally, the board are on a slippery slope with an unofficial UW.
Even without a guarantee, such an undertaking is a significant intention and the AIM would have to be notified. There are financially inexperienced people (members of the public) involved and hiding behind the technical differences of a guaranteed UW and a quiet promise is an act of extreme bad faith that I doubt Graham Wallace would stoop to.
One final thought. Maybe Laxey (or another shareholder would have underwritten, but didn’t have the readies to put aside on Friday. If that’s the case there should be an amending statement as soon as they have the cash.
If the folks at AIM really are as p•••ed off with RIFC as Phil keeps suggesting, this kind of underhand action really could lead to a suspension.
My money is on it being a hoax.
I have been told that the printers are not doing work for them because of unpaid bills. This does not come directly from the printers but form a friend of the owners.
Please take this for what it is, I cannot prove it or disprove it, it is just something I was told.
neepheid says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:22 pm
I suppose we must take this article with the usual pinch of salt, but if Peter Lawwell genuinely said this, as reported, he’s forgetting that RFC are dead because they spent so much money trying to gazump Celtic for the title and the CL riches. He also seems to forget that, if everything had remained the same, then Celtic’s automatic entry into the CL wouldn’t exist and the recent huge financial benefits of the past couple of years wouldn’t necessarily have arrived. Also, if a strong Rangers still existed (and they’d have to be strong to recoup the financial benefit Lawwell claims Celtic have lost), then he’d be having to shell out more money than he does now in the effort to beat RFC for the title (and CL spot).
Seems to me, rather than accepting the situation Celtic find themselves in – lost a successful manager and so in a bit of a transition – Lawwell is looking for excuses for not spending as the supporters might wish.
Unless the Herald is twisting his words, it looks like he’s moving into, if he’s not there already, the ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers’ bandwagon. And why now, just after RIFC make it clear just how deep their financial woes are? Just as there’s rumours that the SFA and SPFL have plans afoot for financial aid to TRFC? Does he have the job of paving the way for news that it’s not a rumour in his role on the SFA board?
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Removing the politics from this particular footballing story is akin to removing oil from water – very difficult
————————————————
Actually separating oil and water is relatively simple as the oil floats to the top and can be skimmed-off 🙄
I wonder how much Celtic would have lost with people jacking in their season tickets had the club voted to let the new Rangers directly into the top league? How much would other clubs have lost? It may or may not be true what no Rangers means in financial terms but had they been allowed straight in the top league, football was finished in Scotland forever.
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:07 pm
in the lab yes, in the real world no so easy