A consortium led by David Low has been in talks with Sir Tom Farmer seeking to purchase Hibernian Football Club. The story has been embargoed for a few weeks, but David agreed to speak to TSFM to give us an exclusive interview and provide us with information about his intentions for the Edinburgh club.
Highlights of the interview include the similarities and differences between the Hibs situation and the one he found at Celtic Pak in 1994; how Scottish Football’s “new level playing field” as Low calls it has created an opportunity for a club like Hibs to be the main challenger to Celtic for honours; the contrast of his consortium’s approach to that of the recent debacle at Ibrox; the role of the fans at every level of the club; the future of Allan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster; and the journey back to the Premiership.
Low is frank about his reputation as a well-known Celtic fan, but highlights his Hibbee credentials and his affection for the club, eschewing the “I was always a Hibbee” line taken by so many people seeking to ingratiate themselves with the locals at various clubs.
Certainly, the experience and finance rolling around Low’s consortium is something that any club could do with, but the fans are crucial to their involvement and interest.
He says he won’t go ahead with the purchase unless the fans are behind them.
“Fans have never been so powerful as they are today, especially with the advent of social media like TSFM”
“We have seen in recent years what a body of fans are capable of when they re together”
“We want to have that togetherness at Hibs, because the only way forward is to have trust between the boardroom and the fans, you only have to look at the levels of distrust between board and fans at Rangers to see that it is a recipe for disaster”
ptd1978 says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:43 pm
Agree with everything you say, but we must remember that nothing has made much sense in the whole affair since Green came on the scene, nor do they play it by the book. Even the rumour might be a ploy used by an interested party, and not necessarily with the agreement, or knowledge, of the board, to create something, anything – false hope, uncertainty, or just to have someone take their eyes off the ball.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:02 pm
Personally I have little doubt that PL’s recent utterances – IMO wearing a SPFL/SFA hat – have more to do with ensuring the financial survival of Rangers than Celtic’s financial or footballing situation.
I think he’s playing a dangerous game and should be concentrating on the difficulties that Celtic currently face on the football field by backing his manager with cash in the January window to gut the current pedestrian squad and move forward.
As it is IMO RD is 1 or 2 games away from going out the door because the fans will walk away. I take nothing away from Dundee today but Celtic are just so poor in almost every position that I have serious doubts they can win the League – let alone cups and don’t even let’s think about the EL – with the current squad and I am a PL supporter. Most of the guys in the pub today aren’t supporters of his or the new manager but they are nearly all Celtic ST Holders and have supported Celtic for at least 20-25 years.
I don’t want this to be seen as a Celtic post but I really believe that PL – no matter whether there is a hidden agenda or not – is flagging-up a really important issue as to the current financial viability of Scottish Football.
And what worries me most of all and which I seriously doubt is whether – if Rangers make the Premiership – that they will be anything other than a shadow of the team they used to be. So even if PL is correct in what he says I don’t think this Rangers or their replacement will provide the financial boost that PL seems to think is necessary for Celtic’s financial survival.
It’s all very interesting times.
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:23 pm
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:07 pm
in the lab yes, in the real world no so easy.
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Actually in the real world the oil emulsifies through wind and wave action and is usually only a problem if the spill is near shore 😆
As to the lab – one of the first things I remember doing at school is separating oil and water and it was easy peasy – I think it was a specific gravity experiment/illustration IIRC 🙄
davythelotion says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:43 pm
YES! Agree emphatically!
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Hurrah! Good man. (Although I’m pre-emptively heartbroken as I anticipate the crushing sense of despair I’m most probably about to feel.)
Right so, best make this about football.
RyanGosling, hello.
A wee while back you said:
“MacFurgly states that this has been a very enjoyable evening. No. It has not. Not for me. Not for anyone who claims to support all Scottish football and all Scottish football clubs. Because that would include Rangers, or TRFC, or whatever you prefer.”
Interesting, although the declarative (nuance-free) nature of your statement perhaps overlooks the fact that some of those people who love Scottish football may legitimately have come to the conclusion that it (Scottish football) would best be served by the death/permanent removal of Rangers. That’s certainly where I find myself now, I’m afraid, having originally hoped, albeit somewhat reluctantly, for a recovery and reinvention of (and for) the club. But the self-inflicted mess is often so excruciatingly beautiful that I don’t know whether to clap. Or pee. Or both.
It never felt like a minority singing We Are The People and it certainly never felt like a minority thundering on about being up to their knees in whatever. Ibrox reverberated to these hymns; it sometimes shook. I should feel sorry for such people? Not happening. The sense of schadenfreude is exquisite and even if I wanted to – which I don’t – I’m not sure I could stop myself from luxuriating in this feeling.
If I take a step back from this self-indulgence, however, I should probably feel sympathy for all those Rangers fans that may fall under the following categories:
1, They will never once have joined in with the more socially jarring songs from the Ibrox songbook. Not once. (There is simply no excuse.)
2, From the outset, they will have felt discomfited by the vulgarity of the David Murray era.
3, They will in no way whatsoever feel that their club deserves special treatment and will not view the application of rules as an injustice.
4, They will feel the deepest, most profound sense of shame that a club they follow(ed) shattered the social contract in such an emphatic manner, spitting on tax payers everywhere.
5, They will have communicated this shame loudly, clearly and repeatedly (they should still be doing it, in fact) to everyone involved in running the club.
There are other stipulations, of course, but that’s probably enough to be going on with. If you fall into all of those categories – and I’m sure you do, you seem a decent sort – then I might, conceivably, feel sorry for you.
You went on to say:
“I haven’t done anything wrong, and neither have most of my fellow fans. We have simply been victims of one spiv after another going back decades, and even when we could see through them there was nothing we could do.”
Nothing? Really? Although Rangers will probably eventually be fairly buggered anyway, I think we can see (today) that the decision of a sizeable minority not to buy season tickets has made an impact of sorts. I wonder why this action may not have been taken in years gone by if, as you say, it was possible to see through the intentions of the sleazy chancers in control? And where were the demonstrations? If those really were wails of anguish coming out of Ibrox for all those years then they had a habit of sounding awfully like gloating.
You say:
“I love Scottish football, I love Rangers and I have been completely screwed by everyone in control of every one of these institutions for years.”
No, you haven’t. Unless you mean that the failure of the Scottish footballing authorities to stamp on the chaos endemic at Ibrox is a form of neglect and a dereliction of duty – in which case, yes, I’d agree. Any other claims that the authorities have screwed Rangers and her fans over would feel quite incredible, bordering on the surreal.
You love Scottish football? Good. Me, too. Only my love leads me to believe that the game would be better served if Rangers were shown the door. Permanently.
(Sorry.)
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:37 pm
I did wonder myself if Lawwell was speaking with his SFA hat on, and if he was, it’s pretty disrespectful to his club’s supporters to use Celtic’s problems as an aid to sorting TRFC’s. By ignoring the fact that no Rangers makes Celtic’s progress to the CL, where there’s more than £10m to be made, almost a formality, he does seem to be banging a drum for TRFC rather than informing the only people he (in his Celtic mode) should be bothered about, the Celtic supporters.
It’s pretty bad, actually, whatever hat he’s wearing, as he’s either using Celtic’s problems to TRFC’s benefit, or using the demise of Rangers to excuse what many Celtic supporters see as his, and the Celtic board’s, failings.
AllyJambo
“…nothing has made much sense in the whole affair since Green came on.”
Probably the most accurate single sentence about Sevco in their history.
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:37 pm
3 0 Rate This
“I don’t want this to be seen as a Celtic post but I really believe that PL – no matter whether there is a hidden agenda or not – is flagging-up a really important issue as to the current financial viability of Scottish Football.”
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But is it a “really important issue as to the current financial viability of Scottish Football?” As Allyjambo says Celtic get a virtually guaranteed entry into the CL competition with a weak Rangers out or even back in the top flight. Surely that offsets a £10m hole (if there really is a £10m hole?) Furthermore isn’t the issue PL identifies one that is affecting Celtic’s finances rather than those of the Scottish game as a whole? If that is the case, the lesson of the whole Rangers debacle is surely that you have to cut your cloth accordingly.
I’m sorry but when I read PL’s comments I do wonder whether it underlines the notion that behind the Ogilvy / Regan / Doncaster axis you really do have to look at where the power lies in Scottish football. I suspect PL has felt very deeply conflicted from the outset between a just outcome and the outcome that was best for Celtic’s bottom line.
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:58 pm
Sadly I was unable to give more than one TU to that post. Chapeau, sir. Though I hope Ryan can see it as a criticism of RFC/TRFC and their fans, in general, rather than of him.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:12 pm
Sadly I was unable to give more than one TU to that post. Chapeau, sir. Though I hope Ryan can see it as a criticism of RFC/TRFC and their fans, in general, rather than of him.
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Crikey, yes, I hope so, too. (I just read it back and see what you mean.) Just in case he does take it personally, though, I’ll apologise in advance – this was not the intention and never would be.
And thanks!
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:47 pm
Yes and No, but the minutiae of hydrocarbon chemistry is probably going to crack the patience of the mods, quicker than one of the towers at Grangemouth 😉
Edit
Ye and No is often how I feel when I read anything about the referendum, which brings us full circle 😉
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:12 pm
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Agree absoutely AJ.
Fantastic post Amazingless.
scapaflow says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:21 pm
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:47 pm
Yes and No, but the minutiae of hydrocarbon chemistry is probably going to crack the patience of the mods, quicker than one of the towers at Grangemouth 😉
Edit
Yes and No is often how I feel when I read anything about the referendum, which brings us full circle 😉
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You prove your point and that’s why I really have no interest in how anyone is going to vote in the Referendum.
I know what I’m doing and will abide by the Democratic decision although I have the luxury of being able to walk away if it all goes pear-shaped which most people don’t have.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:12 pm
I didn’t think you meant any criticism of Ryan in your post, but could see how it might appear to him that you might have. In which case I didn’t want him to feel he was being ‘ganged up on’ as he is a valued poster and would be missed if he felt he’d had enough.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:00 pm
It’s pretty bad, actually, whatever hat he’s wearing, as he’s either using Celtic’s problems to TRFC’s benefit, or using the demise of Rangers to excuse what many Celtic supporters see as his, and the Celtic board’s, failings.
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Lot’s of disquiet in the pub today and passing the living wage resolution at the next agm as a healing balm just won’t cut it IMO.
It’s really quite strange that the demise of Rangers is allegedly having such dire effects on Celtic and this is shaping-up for a very interesting season and as Rangers fans have already gradually realised: No team has any guaranteed rightful place ❗
Apparently the award winning journalist has tweeted that the SFA and SPFL have denied giving TRFC any money.
There you are then, in the SFA and SPFL we trust 🙄
Or maybe they’ve just ripped up the cheque!!!
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:43 pm
🙂
i agree with your comments re Mr Lawwell. Its all a bit Gerald Ratnerish. I find it difficult to believe that he could have mis-read his customers so badly, so maybe an adverse reaction from the fans has been factored in, and deemed acceptable.
ecobhoy says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:53 pm
I don’t think PL will have made many friends at Celtic Park with this claim, unless he comes out and denies/corrects it. Which must make every Celtic supporter wonder; why say it, what good does saying that do Celtic? It does seem like a part of a strategy for dealing with an event that’s about to hit Scottish football! Preparing early, perhaps, for the ‘I voted for what’s best for my club’ argument.
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:58 pm
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Brilliant post
Sums up how I feel
Amazingless, no I didn’t take it personally, but thanks to you and Allyjambo for being considerate enough to check.
The only thing I will say about your post now is that I found it slightly wearying, in that I’ve been critical of most of the things you pointed out in your post in several occasions and yet I still receive responses to my comments in line with what you wrote with moderate frequency. Needless to say I’ve heard it before here and I think everyone knows I’ve never been shy of being critical of my Club’s actions. Doubtless you or anyone else would be justified in responding to me now that you find the chaos wrought on Scottish Football by my Club to be wearying also. We are where we are I suppose. I trust you also will understand that none of the above is a criticism of you or your post, just please understand that I’ve been through this conversation several times and would love to not have to pay a penance to comment. Again, apologies if this sounds critical or overly full of self pity.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 4:02 pm
16 0 Rate This
neepheid says:
August 31, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Unless the Herald is twisting his words, it looks like he’s moving into, if he’s not there already, the ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers’ bandwagon.
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Lets not kid ourselves guys. If it hadn’t been for fan pressure then all of the monkeys in charge of the SPL clubs at the time would have voted for T’Rangers to be given the ‘golden share’.
We make great play on here about Graham Wallace, as a CEO, having to do whats best for the Plc and to hell with the ‘club’.
Two years ago Peter Lawwell had the same duty. Mark my words if the fans of Scottish football had not risen up, Celtic as a Plc and Lawwell as their CEO would have been duty bound to vote T’Rangers in.
That’s business folks and let’s not kid ourselves it would have had any been any other way.
The fans spoke and their financial power was acknowledged and indeed feared for probably the first time in Scottish football history.
That is something we should never ever forget.
RyanGosling says:
August 31, 2014 at 7:42 pm
Amazingless, no I didn’t take it personally, but thanks to you and Allyjambo for being considerate enough to check.
The only thing I will say about your post now is that I found it slightly wearying, in that I’ve been critical of most of the things you pointed out in your post in several occasions and yet I still receive responses to my comments in line with what you wrote with moderate frequency. Needless to say I’ve heard it before here and I think everyone knows I’ve never been shy of being critical of my Club’s actions. Doubtless you or anyone else would be justified in responding to me now that you find the chaos wrought on Scottish Football by my Club to be wearying also. We are where we are I suppose. I trust you also will understand that none of the above is a criticism of you or your post, just please understand that I’ve been through this conversation several times and would love to not have to pay a penance to comment. Again, apologies if this sounds critical or overly full of self pity.
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No, no, not at all, I hear you. I was minorly horrified when it was (correctly) pointed out that my generalised lament/strop/Churchill moment might have seemed like a personal attack – I’m not into that sort of stuff, never have been, either on the internet or elsewhere – when it was intended as a more catch-all response to those who might question why some of us remain (almost) entirely unsympathetic towards Rangers and her fans. Your comments were merely the hook.
Anyway, I’ve been sitting here all ready to go with my “but but but take a look at the mental OCNC thread and the stramash over what we should call Rangers, Gosling, I’m sometimes on your side” defence, should this have come to excitingly manly e-blows. But here we all are getting on just fine. Nightmare.
Take it easy (and thanks).
Bill1903: Thank you. I take it from your Username – unless the “1903” refers to your birthday, of course, and you’re 111 years old – that you’re a fellow Aberdeen fan? (I’ve often felt 111 years old these past couple of decades as I’ve watched them embrace the cult of sub-mediocrity with relish. Still, happier times now.)
Eb, I tried phoning Ross Nisbet the Ernst and Young Media man in Scotland, on the two numbers given on the E&Y website. No joy.
Tried emailing on their contact email site but couldn’t.
And then I got fed up reading all their self-glorifying crap!
I might try Nisbet’s number again tomorrow, though, because patey annoys the hell out of me..
“excitingly manly e-blows” is a marvellous new phrase to add to my vocabulary. Good work.
You could try contacting the team he works for, their details are on the EY website, so are already in the public domain..
IPO specialist team
David Vaughan
IPO Leader
Tel: + 44 20 7951 3107
Email: dvaughan@uk.ey.com
Guy Carr
UK IPO Director
Tel: + 44 20 7951 0166
Email: gcarr1@uk.ey.com
Neil Patey
Partner, Scotland
Tel: + 44 131 777 2064
Email: npatey@uk.ey.com
At the risk of repeating myself, this site is first class. Bravo all contributors
16 Sodium Atoms says:
August 31, 2014 at 8:39 pm
—
Thank you. I might just do that, although I was thinking that someone on the media relations side might be more interested in what damage Patey might be doing to the ‘good name’ of the wider E&Y.
Amazingless says:
August 31, 2014 at 2:39 pm
‘..Very well put, I agree…’
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Clever one, Amazingless. 🙂
Have a read at Gordon Waddell’s column in today’s SM, For the first time I see a journo doing his job and saying it as it is. He really lay’s into ‘super’ for signing a back-up goalkeeper for a back-up goalkeeper whe he has the U21 and U18 goalkeepers on the Ibrox books, Waddells ‘Thelma and Louise’ headline is right on the money. they are sitting there preparing to drive over that cliff.
Yesterday I wrote:
“This crisis is actually worse than 2012. Then the authorities had two months to shoehorn the new club into the system. Now they will be attempting to do it in mid-season while giving them the points of the deceased club and allowing the new club to remain in the Championship.”
The first shot of this war was fired today by Peter Lawwell’s interview in the Sunday papers. He is now basically admitting that Celtic do not have a ‘standalone business policy’.
By articulating the money Celtic have lost he has now opened the door to the financial mad house. Instead of focusing on Celtic’s own business strategy and attempting to convey the financial reality of what their board are trying to achieve to their fans he has, like every other gutless individual involved in our sport, played the ‘we need them back’ line.
How he expects this to fit with the majority of his support is beyond me.
Supporters have over the last two years became adept at reading balance sheets as much as league tables and they are not fools. What Lawwell essentially said today was ‘to make more money we need The Rangers in the top flight’. He may entice a thousand, perhaps five thousand fans, back to renew rivalries with the new entity but I firmly believe he will lose far more supporters who basically just want to see their club play football against like minded football clubs.
He cannot seriously believe that allowing a financial basket case back into the league will solve Celtic’s issues. That basket case is going to impload whether it is this year or next. If he was really interested in renewing rivalries then he, and like minded chairmen, should have demanded the implementation of Financial Fair Play rules to safe guard all clubs including the new entity. Instead he, and everyone else, watched Charles Green burn all their money.
Peter Lawwell is charged with governing finances at Celtic. He should be articulating, and now revising, his clubs business strategy regardless of who their opposition is. As for his position within the SPFL and SFA he should be ensuring ALL clubs are treated fairly and no one is given special treatment.
To do neither of the above is to betray his own support and the wider sport in general. That is not an option.
It is easy to be a Chairman or Chief Executive when your team is playing Champions League football.
If you cannot stand the heat Peter…………
justshatered says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:20 pm
It is quicker for me to say what I think about Peter Lawell. I’m disgusted and embarrassed.
justshatered says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:20 pm
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I smell the first tentative steps of consent manufacture.
They failed last time and they will fail this time.
It’s fairly straightforward enough to manufacture consent for bombing boogeymen.
I don’t think that it’s as straightforward to manufacture our consent to allow cheats to go unpunished.
It’s a funny old world
Scottish football needs a strong Chomsky
jean7brodie @ 9.36pm
Ditto 😥
Peter Lawell has lost my respect. He has also lost the support of thousands of decent ordinary fans like myself. These remarks will probably reflect the view of most of the boardrooms within Scottish Football. What makes so called inelegant business men stick a pair of blinkers on when it comes to TRFC and their determination to grind Scottish Football into the ground. The fans of football will walk away for good sooner rather than later then Sevco/TRFC can celebrate their biggest win ever. Defeating Scottish Football.
Carfins Finest says:
August 31, 2014 at 9:48 pm
I simply cannot comprehend a mind set that says everything will be fine if you allow a club who cannot pay its bills, FIVE WEEKS INTO A SEASON, back into the top league.
The message that it sends out is complete and utter madness.
This is a club who have still not spend serious money on buying a player.
What happens when they do start spending?
How large will their debts be allowed to get this time round?
£30M?
£40M?
Any other guesses?
Here is a newsflash for Peter Lawwell and the rest of our Chairmen; this will not solve your problems. It will make them worse.
The people now showing up to watch this is akin to the people who turned up to see the Elephant Man in a Victorian freak show; there is a gruesome fascination about the whole thing.
As for the statements by Peter Lawwell today, I reject them utterly. I will have no more to do with the sport if this comes to pass.
Me and thousands like me.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:00 pm
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I was happy enough initially this weekend with the views of Peter Lawwell. Frankly I have despaired as I read and listened to the views of some fans who think Celtic should be spending fortunes while it is almost impossible to do so for so many reasons.
Then I awoke today to see Peter has given the media an absolute gift horse, which is Celtic need Rangers and that is that. The headlines were even worse. Yet I maintain that had Celtic, along with a majority of other clubs, voted to have a new Rangers in the top league the financial fall out would have been much worse, except maybe for the new Rangers.
I’m sure Peter knew fine well who he was dealing with when he gave that particular side of his weekend charm offensive. I think he is an excellent CEO of Celtic, but he has scored a spectacular own goal.
Peter, if you are reading, we expect better.
It’s not Rangers absence that is costing Celtic £10m a year.
It is the absence of the illusion of competition.
Competition in Scottish football has not existed within the rules since Rangers used the first ebt with a side letter in Aug 2000.
That is 12 years until RFC liquidated under the illusion of competitiveness that Scottish football has used to keep the crowds up.
Competitiveness is what attracts crowds not Rangers.
The obvious answer is Celtic have grown too big for the league , so remove them or Celtic let their standards drop and concentrate on being better than the rest ( even playing badly after 4 games, 3 away and 1 home they are only 2 points adrift on a same number of games played basis from the top.
When ICT start dropping points as they will are Aberdeen good enough to win consistently enough to provide the competitive edge that attracts crowds as Celtic improve?
Should Celtic either
a) try harder to play elsewhere with blessing of other clubs
or
b) forget all ambitions to be a global brand on the back of CL exposure and look to becoming a community/ membership based club like say Malmo?
Should Dermott Desmond not be looking at what legacy he wants to leave behind to save Celtic (and PL) the Sysiphian task of rolling the same boulder up the same hill never to reach the top and always to have it roll back over them?
How long before they admit Celtic have been priced out of the European never mind global football market and start planning to reflect that reality and hand the club over to sensible community ownership who will operate on the same sustainable basis, but against different expectations.
Is it not time for an intellectual debate on the future of our game based on what has happened rather than kid on it has not and stop trying to recreate the same failed illusion?
Re PL’s comments, not a huge surprise, and probably they would have been echoed by almost all clubs back in 2012 until the fans forced them to say no.
Now, I think most other SPL clubs have now seen what a rangers free league is like and like what they see. Yes, they may have seen a drop in income from tv sponsorship etc, but they are now playing in a more competitive structure. They also wont try to force through something again re rangers as they now know what to expect from their own fans and I think they are fed up with what has gone on in the last couple of years.
If/when rangers go under this time, I think there may be a shortage of life rafts for them this time. The spfl/sfa can’t afford to lose thousands of fans from scottish football for the sake of one club, which is what will happen if they try and gerrymander an advantageous solution for rangers in the current omnishambles of their finances.
John Clark says:
August 31, 2014 at 8:18 pm
18 3 Rate This
Eb, I tried phoning Ross Nisbet the Ernst and Young Media man in Scotland, on the two numbers given on the E&Y website. No joy.
Tried emailing on their contact email site but couldn’t.
And then I got fed up reading all their self-glorifying crap!
I might try Nisbet’s number again tomorrow, though, because patey annoys the hell out of me..
====================================================================
John…thank you for your comments and “contacts”. I will do the necessary by “snail-mail” tomorrow morning…by “special delivery”.
Naturally I will keep you and the blog informed,
Watching Sportscene.
Can anyone else just confirm that it is not my TV and that there is no way Willie Collum should have allowed County’s keeper to take to the field with that non contrasting strip!!!
Mr Lawwell is the CEO at Celtic and is entitled to comment on financial matters as he sees them. It’s his job. The timing of these remarks, however, would appear to be either as a response to media stories over CFC’s transfer policy or as a preparation for the kind of announcement speculated on above – that talks are taking place within the SFA and SPFL about how to continue TRFC’s progress to the top division in the event of another financial collapse of some sort.
I posted last night that I would like to see RIFC and TRFC obliterated. I should have added that following that event Regan and Doncaster at least should resign.
There can be few people now who do not believe that the SFA and SP(F)L have actively worked to keep TRFC in business and to move them towards the top division – rules bent, semi-finals arranged, cup draws managed and so on. I wont list them all.
Sporting integrity is crucial in all divisions of course, but what has happened so far, I think, has caused relatively little concern because TRFC have been in the lower divisions. What happens if the SFA and SPFL are successful in shoving them into the Premiership?
The justification will be the money that has gone out of Scottish football, as articulated by Mr Lawwell in the Herald today, and on Sportsound also. Presumably if they are so keen to get TRFC into the top division for that reason, they will be equally keen to keep them there for the same reason. Where will that leave us? How far are they prepared to go?
Next time DUFC go to Ibrox for the last match of the season needing 3 points to qualify for 3rd. place and Europe, TRFC may need 3 points to avoid relegation. Whatever happens during such a game, not one fan anywhere in Scotland will believe that the match was straight.
We will be in a situation where everyone knows that the SFA and SPFL have, and will continue to, actively support TRFC in their quest to be successful. Simply, the top division of Scottish football will be regarded as being, and probably will be, bent.
This time round would be more acute than 2012 because of the creation of the Lowland League and the fact that “Rangers” would be out of the top division for at least 8 years. It doesn’t matter.
For me, the best outcome is for TRFC/RIFC to go bust and for 3rd. Rangers to start in the Lowland League, with Regan and Doncaster going. That gives Scottish football the best chance of a clean start. The worst I have described above. The middle way is for Regan and Doncaster to resign, when TRFC make the Premiership, job done, but that is eternal uncertainty about the integrity of our game and a suspicion that the “Old Firm” are in charge, entirely and forever.
The position of the club Chairmen and Mr. Lawwell in particular I’m afraid will have to remain as a kind of disgrace within the family. It is unrealistic to expect them to all resign, so they will stay, hopefully wiser, chastened and ready to develop their clubs in an atmosphere of fair competition, liberated from fear of Armageddon.
P.S. Well said MattyRoth above, I paraphrase, “Advncing money to TRFC now, without them having sold players or cut costs, would be like breaking Financial Fair Play rules in your own competitions.
Spot on.
Allyjambo says:
August 31, 2014 at 5:56 pm
18 0 Rate This
Apparently the award winning journalist has tweeted that the SFA and SPFL have denied giving TRFC any money.
There you are then, in the SFA and SPFL we trust
Or maybe they’ve just ripped up the cheque!!!
———-
And our twitter phenomenon @AnOrangeCount seems to have either hidden or deleted the account.
I really don`t see why so many people are getting het up about PL claiming to want TRFC in the SPL or even pretending TRFC bear comparison with RFC as a football team
Its nonsense and PL knows it
….
The reality is
RFC will NEVER come back.
They were a club that latterly achieved success on a payment system that can`t be repeated
TRFC have zero chance of attracting the quality of player needed to attain the glories of RFC
They are deid as a co, Deid as a team
And
Deid as a management organisation both on and off the park
Nope
What we are witnessing is PL doing his bit to minimise criticism of Celtic for the upcoming funeral
And it wont be long now
TRFC will soon join their illustrious predecessor and go down the pan
PL is simply positioning Celtic as one of the chief mourners at the crocodile tearfest
Not sure what to make of Peter Lawell’s comments really, I skimmed the article this morning and grew a tired of thinking about it almost as soon as I’d read it.
Some thoughts, maybe readers here will put me right.
Firstly does PL place lack of competition or lack of Rangers as central to the significant financial losses he claims? Which is it? And how does he know which is the problem?
If its a lack of Rangers then sure, bring the carcass back out front and lets get back on with the show I guess. Thats what we would be saying here right? We plan to dig up some failed behemoth, pump enough juice into its veins and all get back to our festival of Glasgow rivalry (I’m avoiding certain unpopular terms here).
I’m completely confused how that can be the answer to anything, or what we are really saying Scottish Football is all about? Anyone?
If that does prove to be the case, then I have to say, I’m out. Completely lost all interest whatsover, because I’ve been one of those people who turns the telly OFF when Celtic play Rangers, more than any other game of football I’ve ever seen grace the tellybox, I’m just simply not interested in that particular fixture. So presumably this vision of Scottish Football revolving forever around one rivalry simply is not intended to include people like me.
(presumably we should let the 2 Glasgow teams play each other ad finitum in their own league and the rest of us get on with it in our own?)
OR..
Perhaps the point was the lack of competition is the killer?
In which case has PL considered how to increase the competition, even the playing field a little? If not, why not.
What are the options? Are they being worked on? Will they bring Celtic fans back?
I just find it all very confusing to be honest. The whole article raised more questions than it in anyway informed.
I am surprised that the Peter Lawwell interview has surprised so may folk. A few posters have been attributing those sentiments to Celtic (not always helpful to personalise things) for two years.
I knew as a matter of fact what Celtic’s position was and is on the demise of Rangers since before the SPL vote in July 2012. However that Celtic position is as deluded as that of Dave King and all the other Rangers men.
There is a ridiculous notion that Rangers’ “return” to the Premiership will correct the imbalances of the last three years and normal service will be resumed. The Old Firm will once again be the brand to watch, and all the other teams – you now the ones who have been winning trophies over the last few years – will respectfully step aside into their rightful paces as spectators.
The problem with that is two-fold. Firstly the Rangers men and the Celtic men don’t seem to get the fact that Rangers will be no competition at all for several years yet – if ever. No cash means no quality players or more insolvency.
Secondly, whilst it is true that Rangers fans are looking forward to their side’s ascension into the Premiership, the rest of us have had a taste of life sans ‘gers. The change of atmosphere in the game has improved it far in advance of any shortfall which might have been suffered as TRFC climbed the greasy pole.
This Rangers is NOT (OCNC debate notwithstanding) the RFC of old. They are neither as powerful nor competitive as they once were, nor are they the great presence of old.
Whether you are Peter Lawwell or Dave King, it will benefit you immensely to realise that. They might wish for it – but they just don’t get it.
upthehoops says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:04 pm
Auldheid says:
August 31, 2014 at 10:07 pm
——–
Two very important posts, with both of which I agree.
The supporters of any club who insist on a ridiculous ‘spend, spend, spend’ mentality are not worth listening to, and would run a club into the same difficulties as SDM’s cheating mentality caused for RFC (IL)
And any director of any club who ( apparently) is prepared to try to prepare ,to mould, public opinion into accepting that it might be right that a failing club( which may already be sailing close to the wind in terms of trading while insolvent) should not have the rules applied to it, should listen up and pay heed.
If, and, of course, it is still an ‘if’, RIFCplc/TRFC fold in mid-season, any attempt by the Football Authorities to protect them from the consequences by bending the rules to favour them, or, worse, exercising ‘discretion’ in the interpretation of those rules relating to ‘fit and proper persons’ solely to allow such as King to come to the rescue……professional Scottish Football will die. Simple as that.
And Peter Lawwell should know that.
Big Pink says:
September 1, 2014 at 12:30 am
BP well said, and right on point. I can see how they might “help” Rangers by some creative rule interpretations, but that will do nothing to reduce the cost base, or provide regular huge injections of cash. The seem sutck in a loop, someone needs to hit ctrl alt delete
Goosey
Interesting take as always, though I am perplexed as to how alienating further a customer base that is already unhappy with the club’s performance, will protect the club from anything.
GoosyGoosy says:
August 31, 2014 at 11:17 pm
‘.PL is simply positioning Celtic as one of the chief mourners at the crocodile tearfest.’
——–
The trouble is,GoosyGoosy, that PL is not just CEO of a club, he is also on the SFA Board.
For him to witter on about losses occasioned by the lack of ‘competition’ from any kind of ‘Rangers’ has to be taken as not merely his view as a club CEO but as someone testing the waters on behalf of the SFA.
It’s possible that his utterances may be tongue-in-cheek, but in the atmosphere in which we currently live, we have to watch the SFA like a hawk.
We simply cannot allow Sporting Integrity to die for the sake of filthy lucre.There will be no lucre at all if we all decide not to spend our money on a rigged ‘sport’. And, while we have all had to put up with ‘honest mistake’ decisions on the field, we simply cannot accept that our Authorities should feel free to accommodate a club ( if it is in breach) simply because it can, as it were, like Dave King, ‘buy’ its way out of suffering the consequences of becoming insolvent or whatever.
That, I seem to keep on saying, is the main point. The misdeeds, the rule-breaking, the demise of an economic entity are one thing. The misdeeds, the fear of more misdeeds, on the part of those whose function is to prevent and/or punish misdeeds, should concern us more.
Again, in my opinion.
This is conjecture but I think is how it happened.
At the infamous meeting between rangers in trouble and RCO and SR at the nice hotel in Glasgow’s west end the potential problems facing Craigs wee £1 purchase club were aired.
The need for revenue would have been talked about and some disaster scenarios possibly aired.
Help would have been requested in the event of a shortage of pound notes.
This gave the various administrators and club SFA reps like Petrie and their close wee group of pals plenty of time to discus and sort things out.
For the good of the game you understand.
Lawwell was complicit because he would have been briefed early doors.
He believed too and I’d say still believes vehemently that Rangers are needed for big Celtic crowds and also for TV revenues.
RTC and the bampots may have put a spanner in the plans at the time and nobody foresaw Craigie Boy and his gang of spivs but make no mistake Mr Lawwell and. Mr Petrie and a few others were in at the ground floor.
And still are.
No surprise abou Mr Lawwell harkening back to what he sees as the other half of the bizarre Glasgow cultural idiosyncrasy that has helped both the green and the blue side of the city.
A situation which still hurts all the other teams who watch buses leave their cities and towns every week with “old firm fans” out to fight quasi religious superiority feuds.
But I could be wrong and Mr Lawwell might just be an innocent in the whole sorry tale.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-dance-with-the-devil/
From James Forrest- some good points from a Celtic supporter’s standpoint.
John Clark says:
September 1, 2014 at 12:35 am
===================================
If TRFC officially hit the skids mid season the rest of the clubs at least know the season ticket money is in, but they had better heed what their fans tell them again, because the backlash will simply arrive at a future date. The bottom line is they will be helping a club which has overspent to shoot fish in a barrel while every other club has cut its cloth to suit. People often say Rangers ruined Scottish football when they started their ruinous spending in 1986. If the rest of the clubs don’t listen to their fans, Rangers may end up effectively ending the game in Scotland forever. If we are told mid season that they are too important to die, and rules are broken to keep them where they are, and to continue challenging for the Championship title, then I will seriously consider ending the Celtic season ticket I have held since 1995.
upthehoops says:
September 1, 2014 at 6:56 am
3 0 Rate This
———
The rumours of the demise may be exaggerated UTH.
Mind you, if there were to be such a scenario I wonder what the protest banners will say. ‘No To Newco Sevco’? ‘No To Newco Newco’? And the authorities are going to have to find something worse than ‘Armageddon’. Lots to ponder 😉
Danish Pastry says:
September 1, 2014 at 7:13 am
the authorities are going to have to find something worse than ‘Armageddon’.
———————————————-
I think it’s worth sticking with the Film Industry and just go for Armageddon II.
After all the sequels are always more horrendous than the first in any series and I have the feeling this could easily become an even longer running drama than Coronation Street 😆
Ten years of attendances at Scottish football
2004-05 4,235,153
2005-06 4,369,486
2006-07 4,349,042
2007-08 4,092,929
2008-09 4,185,722
2009-10 3,818,925
2010-11 3,766,311
2011-12 3,771,021
2012-13 3,726,935
2013-14 3,729,024
data from http://stats.football365.com/
It’s quite clear that the reduction in attendance pre-dates Rangers demise so the money was going already, regardless of what PL says or thinks.
Peter Lawell at the weekend – sounded like some pretty heavy deflection to me.
This Celtic team is about as bad as I can remember for a long, long time and with the transfer window about to shut, unlikely to get better.
We have a new manager that is struggling to find his feet.
We have a string of poor results.
We have a CEO who is desperate to shift attention elsewhere… AND is looking for an excuse for our current woes.
It’s no oor fault… blah, blah, blah.
Well, here is my take on it Mr Lawell.
I hate losing, and I expect you and the rest of the club to pull out every stop to make sure we are as competitive as we can be, without endangering the long term existence of the club (see, we can be reasonable).
If that means we go through a period of transition and readjustment, so be it.
If that means we lose games and competitions to other well-run clubs, so be it.
I can live with Aberdeen or Dundee United or any other of the hardworking, honest clubs having their day in the sun and enjoying success.
I welcome the buzz of real honest competition.
What I will not accept is losing to a club that has been allowed to cheat the system,spend money on players it cannot afford and fail to pay the same dues as everyone else.
One club like that died recently.
There is another that looks like it is using a very similar business model.
If it hits the rocks, it must be allowed to sink. Keeping it afloat, at the expense of everyone else, is unnacceptable and reckless.
Scottish Football nearly died recently.
Not because Rangers died, but because they were exposed.
The corruption extended into the heart of the Football administration and, incredibly, remains in place to this day.
Mr Lawell, your focus should be on making damn sure that our game is no longer rigged in favour of one team.
It is sporting integrity or bust.
neepheid says:
September 1, 2014 at 5:28 am
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-dance-with-the-devil/
From James Forrest – some good points from a Celtic supporter’s standpoint.
============================================
I am an admirer of a lot of Forrest’s work and see his latest offering as being more important for the future of Scottish Football than simply Celtic.
I am also a pretty staunch Lawwell supporter but I have to say over the last couple of days I have been mystified with some of the comments he has made especially wrt the financial effect that the death of Rangers is alleged to have caused Celtic.
However I am not so sure that the scenario outlined by Lawwell is simply designed to facilitate the presence of some ‘version’ of Rangers in the top flight.
And I happen to believe that Lawwell is more than enough of a Celtic supporter to throw his vote behind any Hampdem machinations which I have absolutely no doubt are in full swing.
So I ask myself why has Lawwell apparently turned into a succulent lamb feeder to the SMSM who as usual have disgraced themselves by devouring the scraps in exactly the same unthinking and cowardly way when they came from Murray’s table.
I think Forrest touches on the answer I believe is more accurate and that is that Celtic in recent weeks has shown itself to be an utter ‘shambles’ in just about every department.
As this isn’t a Celtic Blog I won’t detail the various serious issues which have emerged and I believe most posters here will be well aware of them in any case.
I think the important thing is that the ‘buck’ for the present Parkhead ‘shambles’ has to stop at Lawwell and, of course, the demise of Rangers has had a part to play financially but it isn’t a critical one IMO and Lawwell’s attempt to paint it as such is easily dismantled.
Of course the underlying Celtic business strategy will hit the buffers when there are no more assets to sell and the buy-cheap and develop model has stalled badly given the atrocious quality of a large proportion of current Parkhead players who signing appears to show an ever more non-existant scouting policy and structure than Rangers.
I realise there are a percentage of Celtic supporters who are desperate to be playing rangers again – I am not in that number as I put the greater good of Scottish Society before that of my club. But I ain’t daft and recognise that that day would come although the recent financial events at Ibrox – before Lawwell apparently switched horses – kicked it into the long grass.
I try not to get involved in conspiracy theories and doubt if that is what’s going down here to save Rangers. I see it as an attempt to save Celtic by clinging to the outmoded ‘Auld Firm’ alliance to the detriment of the rest of Scottish Football and ultimately IMO – Celtic.
But it’s easier and more acceptable to do than compete in the CL it would appear and if that is what Lawwell is about – and I sincerely hope not – then he will split the Celtic support and I believe mortally damage our club.
At best it’s simply smoke and mirrors to disguise the abolsute shampoo that’s being dished-up to Celtic supporters as football which must surely be actionable under the Trade Description Act.
Damn you Big Pink 😈
(Big Pink @ 12.30am)
I had an anti old firm rant all prepared and everything and you come in with a common sense reality check that completely pops my ire!
It is no shock that Doncaster/Lawell et al’s extensive foresight came to the conclusion “Lets rebuild the status quo.” You are absolutely correct on at least four fronts though.
1/ This is not the status quo – they died. Trying to sweep that minor fact under the carpet was never going to work, and to what purpose did it serve anyway? The ethereal cloudy thing they follow follow was always going to survive regardless.
2/ This is not the status quo – the phoenix child is skint so cannot afford an arms race without access to one way credit and favourable treatment.
3/ This is not the status quo – not if the other clubs have anything to do with it – in fact this is possibly the only ray of light if Doncaster felt he could create a 3,4,5 horse race and hope Celtic’s famous biscuit tin mentality brought them back into the mix. I do not believe for one tiny second this was his thinking!
4/ This is not the status quo – this is now a dangerous beast. There will be elements of all supports who will see this as an excuse to ‘go that little bit further.’ The best example I can think of; Dons Rangers ties have for years, for various reasons, been extremely ugly affairs on and off the park. it remains the only tie in Scotland I wouldn’t take my 8yo to (although granted I’ve never had the old firm ‘pleasure.’) If this was the beast they thought to deliberately create, and I’m not specifically singling out RFC*fans to be clear, in some kind of reinvigoration of hatred approach then frankly hell mend them.
Re Lawell.
What ever happened to the “We are not defined by any other club” statement? If Peter Lawell plays a part in any shenanigans to get Newco into the top level,he better look out.If he thinks the drop in attendances is worrying now,he ain’t seen nothing yet.I for one will not stand by and see my club prostitute itself for the benefit of the entity from Govan.
eco,
Re James Forrest’s piece.
Firstly, perhaps you have to be non OF to truly see that absolutely ingrained in both clubs (ok all three clubs 😆 ) is the mentality that success is to do just better than them. I will guarantee at no point in the 60’s was Stein told to go out and win the EC (They did btw, I know you guys don’t like to mention it :twisted:). I will equally guarantee you that he was specifically tasked with doing better than them. The current malaise at CP is therefore not that surprising. The biggest concern and I see Forrest highlights it is that the answer seems to be there in the CL where ‘only’ group stages would repay the required investment. Similarly, it is not that big a gamble given the UEFA cup fall back now about to be enjoyed.
One thing did intrigue me in Forrest’s piece though. His quote is something like “RFC are kidding themselves if they think they can compete with CFC not to mention Aberdeen, Utd and Inverness.”
What does McCall have to do to get some credit exactly?
Big Pink says:
September 1, 2014 at 12:30 am
I agree with most of what you have written but would empasize that the current Celtic is not the Celtic of old and most certainly not as powerful or as competitive as they were over the last couple of years.
However IMO ‘The Presence’ remained until the Legia fiasco blew the top of the fan volcano which had been slowly building with steam being vented in all sort of diversionary ways in recent times.
Scottish Football as a spectator sport is gradually dying and I see nothing that can stop the process although a plateau will probably be reached at some stage after glory-hunting ‘fans’ have all tuned into their English premiership teams on Sky or BT.
However in the slightly shorter term you are right in that the Scottish teams who have blossomed in the last couple of years won’t sit back and be pushed into the back seat again.
And on current performance of the Ibrox dinosaur and its soon to be stablemate at Parkhead they could be harried to death by the terriers nipping at their feet.
I doubt if much can be done to save Rangers other than the SPFL and SFA changing the rules every season which I believe will lead to bloody revolution by all other clubs and fans and hopefully like-minded Bears and Tims playing their part as well.
Bullets have to be bitten now if the game is to survive with any honour as short-termism will kill it stone-dead very quickly IMO.
Celtic as a club should play no part in any machinations and get its own house in order and Lawwell and the Board should be explaining exactly what vision they have for the club and the future of Scottish Football.
If Rangers has to be a part on that – not based on sporting merit and integrity – then I’m off and will support a team that I believe does and if I can’t find one then I have a couple of hobbies that will more than adequately occupy my time and money and I’ll probably watch the old videos in secret and silently weep at what I and Scotland have lost through the Beautiful Game being corrupted by men whose sole motive is garnering power and money.
2 lots of 1.8 million shares dealt this morning at 24.75p.
Don,t know if sales or purchases,though.
those trades account for about 5%, may trigger a notification statement
Smugas says:
September 1, 2014 at 9:53 am
eco,
Re James Forrest’s piece.
======================================
I agree with you on Forrest’s comment about Aberdeen and unless someone at Parkead gets the finger out very quickly we won’t need to wait till next year to see how dangerous Aberdeen can be to Celtic never mind some future Blue incarnation which may or may not be playing at Ibrox.
You say:
I really don’t think it’s possible to compare the glory days under Jock with the last couple of years as not only has the club changed beyond recognition but so has football on a national, European and increasingly world level. It simply isn’t the same game and the changes wrought at Parkhead by Wee Fergus should never be underestimated.
In any case IMO the Celtic ruling dynasties operated on the premise that more money could be made for them by restricting spending below that of Rangers which meant being happy coming second although this could never be openly admitted to the masses. So perhaps I destroy my own argument in that plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
However I don’t see Celtic as suffering from any malaise arising from lack of decision-making or direction but rather very flawed decisions being taken against a deteriorating financial situation in general, in football and recently at the club.
You add:
I don’t disagree with Forrest and actually understood that achieving the CL Group Stages coupled with a successful develop and sell policy was to be the bedrock of the club’s financial success.
Now it would appear – according to PL – that it’s actually competing with Rangers despite previous claims that Celtic had a stand-alone policy that wasn’t dependent on Rangers. I have never ever seen the group of mates I normally watch most away matches with so confused and puzzled in my life over Lawwell’s stance on the finances.
On the question of ‘gambling’ that had more to do with the ‘duds’ we have not only signed in recent years but the inability to recognise they couldn’t be developed to turn a profit. And – like the Sevco first-year recruits – they are so overpaid they can’t be shifted. And that’s without even taking into account RD’s vision which in general I totally support although some of his setting-up mystifies me. However that I feel strays into a discussion more suited to Celtic sites.
AS to the Uefa Cup fall-back I’m not sure that Celtic will do much more than break-even there such is the disparity with that competition and the CL. However I think we could be in for a torrid time and unless we manage to sign 2/3 crucial replacements today I predict more angst ahead and again perhaps why Lawwell is getting his excuses in now.
I truly think Lawwell has misjudged the Celtic support on this one and might well drag the club back a decade by offering-up a feast of Rangers defeats to those who live only for that. I hope there are less of them in our support but, either way, I wouldn’t be too sure about beating them because they will buy players no matter how penniless they are as they need to get the crowds back and also need to get into Europe.
So if Rangers don’t go down the pan again I think Celtic – without a clear rethink of its priorities and the funding to put them in place – could well be heading for choppy waters.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 1, 2014 at 10:09 am
2 lots of 1.8 million shares dealt this morning at 24.75p.
Don,t know if sales or purchases,though.
=================================================
I wonder if that could be Green getting out? If so that’s a really bad sign for Rangers IMO because it could mean there isn’t enough left to make it worthwhile hanging-on.
Which would inevitably raise the question: ‘What about the property’ ❓
Absolutely agree on two fronts.
The game has indeed changed. The ingrained success barometer at Celtic Park I fear has not. Now whether someone has deliberately decided to ‘rewind’ (see what I did there) the old one is another matter entirely. Like you, I sincerely hope he/they haven’t.
Separately, breaking even in the UEFA league is not exactly a massive downside risk is it?
I wish I shared your confidence in AFC’s challenge – but promise your confused and befuddled mates we’ll do our best to serve up some angst in spades!
ecobhoy says:
September 1, 2014 at 10:47 am
Could be, there was some chatter that the Easdale deal had fallen through, but I can’t recall seeing a definitive statement on that.
Good analysis of Celtic’s self made predicament. Must confess I’m intrigued by Auldheid’s community buyout, would certainly contribute to that!
Smugas says:
September 1, 2014 at 10:55 am
Separately, breaking even in the UEFA league is not exactly a massive downside risk is it?
==============================
Actually me and my mates weren’t discussing Aberdeen but what Lawwell was up to and by extension DD. However the way things are going we will be discussing Aberdeen in a fortnight although being a home game I will be able to hear what the Celtic support think of our on the park performance 🙄
As to Uefa – I don’t worry about breaking even financially but about getting well and truly humped on the park which – along with dismal league performances – could see a very early bath for RD.
I would regret that because I do think he has a lot to offer in the training and development side but has yet to demonstrate that he can be a successful Celtic manager.
However it’s very early days and Lawwell says he’s got his full backing and for me the time to judge that will be the January transfer window and the amount of cash provided to restructure a pretty tired and threadbare looking squad.
I really believe a helluva lot of Celtic supporters have got beyond just beating Rangers and they want to play on the European stage. And that’s also the major draw for attracting players to Celtic and most certainly not our pretty poor league.
But CL footie isn’t just down to the amount oif dosh Celtic can invest. It’s also about developing home grown talent and with Lennoxtown – courtesy of State Aid 😆 there is no excuse for not bringing more youngsters through trained and developed to fit a Celtic ‘style’.
But one of the most important changes IMO is a move to summer footie with winter break. That will help every Scottish club playing in Europe and I’m certain that it will help increase attendances. Never mind resident Scottish football fans but think of the huge marketing opportunity to have tourists take in Scottish Football games on their holidays.
I think the income from that could be brilliant not just for the clubs but for Scottish Tourism with a huge amount of spin-offs.
As a long suffering bluenose who winces at the damage caused by Murray, Whyte, and other savoury characters who have brought our club to its knees I wonder what the next move will be.
It goes without saying in our long history we, the supporters and the club, have never been more vulnerable.
History, sshh, I’ve mentioned that word and a few will be on to tell me we don’t have a history now.
Well, my position is this , we can argue the rights and wrong, but as long there is a Rangers in our hearts and minds, never mind the legalities Rangers are not dead and will never die. That as a fan is how it should be.
As for the resurgence of Rangers now, the jury is out, but the biggest casualty outside ourselves is our rivals. Now I am not blind enough to admit that one of the big plus points of these economic times is the number of young Scottish talent getting its chance (except of course at Ibrox, I could go on and on about this, but I wont).
But Celtic’s dramatic cost cutting has really taken me by surprise, never thought it would happen so soon. Almost to the point where they will win the SPL but with a struggle looking at their current displays.
Their support have a right to be angry considering the players that they have lost considering the money they have taken in. But in my judgement the management of the club is at fault, not the strategy, but the ability to spot players who are adequate replacements, that seems to have gone awry. That is not and never will be an exact science.
So what will Rangers return to the SPL, if we get there.
1. Badly needed sponsorship and better TV deals, I do not think that anyone can argue with that.
2. Rangers v Celtic , the adrenalin rush, that the missing fans miss, the majority on both sides and neutrals , not the vile hatred that comes with it
3. What it won’t guarantee is a higher standard of play, I admit that.
4. But it could if Rangers (in a repaired state) and Celtic would be serious about promoting youth rather than bringing in third rate foriegners.
5. Both clubs recognise our level in the current daft financial level in Football with EPL clubs squandering millions.
Lets hope the shares news today is some good news and not another financial thieve.
Big Pink says:
September 1, 2014 at 12:30 am
51 1 Rate This
I am surprised that the Peter Lawwell interview has surprised so may folk. A few posters have been attributing those sentiments to Celtic (not always helpful to personalise things) for two years.
I knew as a matter of fact what Celtic’s position was and is on the demise of Rangers since before the SPL vote in July 2012. However that Celtic position is as deluded as that of Dave King and all the other Rangers men.
There is a ridiculous notion that Rangers’ “return” to the Premiership will correct the imbalances of the last three years and normal service will be resumed. The Old Firm will once again be the brand to watch, and all the other teams – you now the ones who have been winning trophies over the last few years – will respectfully step aside into their rightful paces as spectators.
The problem with that is two-fold. Firstly the Rangers men and the Celtic men don’t seem to get the fact that Rangers will be no competition at all for several years yet – if ever. No cash means no quality players or more insolvency.
Secondly, whilst it is true that Rangers fans are looking forward to their side’s ascension into the Premiership, the rest of us have had a taste of life sans ‘gers. The change of atmosphere in the game has improved it far in advance of any shortfall which might have been suffered as TRFC climbed the greasy pole.
This Rangers is NOT (OCNC debate notwithstanding) the RFC of old. They are neither as powerful nor competitive as they once were, nor are they the great presence of old.
Whether you are Peter Lawwell or Dave King, it will benefit you immensely to realise that. They might wish for it – but they just don’t get it.
=====================================
I think rather than surprised people are just upset and dismayed to see it laid out so boldly by PL. He’s not shy in nailing his colours to the Rangers mast here.
All of which bring us back to the conclusion that for all the people involved inside our game, Scottish Football = the Old Firm (apologies for use of the term, but this particular context I think its the most appropriate to use).
So why do any of the rest of the teams bother? Or more to the point any of the other fans?
I know Mr Lawell is looking at purely financial factors and what is best for the PLC he runs but I find it all a bit disrespectful to the other partners in the Scottish Game if I am honest.
While Celtic attendances *may* increase with the return of “Rangers” (and I’ll let Celtic fans comment on that if they chose) I’m fairly sure week to week attendances of the other clubs will be diminished by their return.
scapaflow says:
September 1, 2014 at 11:05 am
ecobhoy says:
September 1, 2014 at 10:47 am
Could be, there was some chatter that the Easdale deal had fallen through, but I can’t recall seeing a definitive statement on that.
===================================================
No there hasn’t been but in the last week or so there have been a few posts on the Darkside from anti-Board posters claiming that the Easdales wanted out.
But that could be simply wishful thinking. But I just felt that the 3.6 million plus the transfer of over 700,000 IIRC to Laxey would leave Green with roughly 1 million shares as a chip on the table.
But for someone to have cashed-in 3.6 million shares at this stage is highly significant IMO and any shareholder with that size of holding is likely to have a much better idea of what’s going on than most.
They aren’t even prepared to hold and not take-up their new proposed share allocations and just let their holding be diluted. Instead they are walking away.
If they got their shares at 1p a time I suppose it makes some sense but if they paid 70p a whack then they’ve taken the ice-water challenge and it will be interesting to see who else feels ‘nominated’ for walking away.
Go back two years and many on RTC were asking why CFC & Peter Lawell didn’t use their size and muscle to steer the debate in the right direction.
The response was that it was not their place and it would only serve to inflame matters.
Looks to me after this weekend that it was neither of those which stopped it happening.
It was because they were as complicit as the others in attempting to have their cake and eat it.
Bought and sold for old firm gold.
Scunnered and weary…
“Bought and sold for the illusion of old firm gold.”
Fixed that for you para handy
What does the special conditions attached to TRFC trading page mean, clicked the link but no further forward?
Thanks Scapa, although it doesn’t scan as nicely. Perhaps it sounds better in Orcadian though. 🙂
In the past many Celtic fans have pointed out – quite correctly – that Celtic can’t be isolated in blame in all of this. The clubs as a collective unit seem to have been voting with their feet from day one. For that reason I think it unfair to single Peter Lawwell out for criticism – although the “bottom line” mentality that Celtic are pursuing is fair game.
I would be curious to know how many of the clubs would still cleave to the idea that no Rangers means reduced revenues – especially since their absence has afforded opportunities to a few clubs since Liquidation Day. Celtic’s attitude in their situation makes sense in terms of finance, but very little in terms of sporting integrity.
There are three main constituencies in the game; the clubs, the players and the fans.
Sporting integrity appears to matter ONLY to the fans. Now the absence of that sentiment in boardrooms and dressing rooms all over the country doesn’t make the directors and players all bad folk – but it does demonstrate that they are running a sport which only loosely qualifies to be named as such.
In other words what they are offering from their own order of priorities is not the game we thought we were all buying into. If enough fans are happy with that (and sadly I do think that the vast majority are) then those with a more purist outlook on what football is supposed to be will go elsewhere and leave the majority to continue to participate in the entertainment (if that is what they think it is).
My only over-riding concern is that the money men seem to think sectarianism is what sells in the Scottish game. Charles green understood this, and exploited it ruthlessly. If the bottom line is all that matters, then our only hope is that whoever eventually gains control of the club playing at Ibrox plays no part in it. I won’t be putting the kettle on for that.
scottc says:
September 1, 2014 at 9:03 am
Ten years of attendances at Scottish football
2004-05 4,235,153
2005-06 4,369,486
2006-07 4,349,042
2007-08 4,092,929
2008-09 4,185,722
2009-10 3,818,925
2010-11 3,766,311
2011-12 3,771,021
2012-13 3,726,935
2013-14 3,729,024
data from http://stats.football365.com/
It’s quite clear that the reduction in attendance pre-dates Rangers demise so the money was going already, regardless of what PL says or thinks.
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Thanks scottc. While Lawwell and Celtic may have seen a decline in their own attendances, what the figures tell me is that for the past five years overall attendances have been pretty much the same.
The split may be different but overall the game in Scotland has attracted about the same number of punters through the turnstile. Perhaps we have arrived at the ‘core support’ but I suspect that the increased competitiveness and attractive football played by many teams giving youth a chance has helped.
Where there have been a lamentable failing is in the SFA/SPFL not doing their job to attract sponsorship for what is clearly still a pretty sizeable market.
I return again to my oft stated proposal that the SPFL should, in the absence of any paying options, award sponsorship of the league(s) for the rest of the season to a charitable organisation(s).
What a publicity coup that could be and how much more desirable for a commercial organisation to step in next year, perhaps even continuing the charitable link in some way?
“The Age Scotland Premier League” perhaps or maybe “The RNIB Scotland Championship”? Loads to choose from. One per league perhaps.
What is there to lose? They’ve devalued the brand already with their doom and gloom proclamations.
Scottish Football needs some decent marketing.