“Anyone read Michael Grant’s article in The Times? Only saw a pull-quote but the headline is about not everyone cheering for Celtic to European success since the financial windfall will put them too far ahead of the other clubs. It’s that old UEFA distribution thingy. Auldheid had a sensible alternative a while back.”
Thanks Danish Pastry for giving Big Pink the opportunity to nudge me (over a coffee I paid for – so how’s that for redistribution of income? 🙂 ) to blog again on the issue of redistribution of UEFA money whilst he was advocating gate sharing as an alternative.
I recall the redistribution debate being discussed on the first TSFM podcast Episode 1-01 of 9th Feb 2014 which can be found here:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football-monitor/id817766886?mt=2
Listening to it again (I used “View in I Tunes”) I heard many of the recent comments on the previous blog being made in that podcast at or around:
9.58: The interdependent nature of the business of football. Why it is different from normal business.
10.50: Celtic/Rangers leaving the Scottish League making it immediately more competitive.
11.30: Clubs as a community resource (like museums or libraries not run for profit, providing a community service and staying solvent).
12.48: People have to let go of the notions that they have held about the nature of football and recognise it is a totally interdependent business.
13.55: Changing the Champions League format to European and Regional Leagues and raising the standard of all, not dropping standards of one to bring about competiveness.
25.50: A rethink at the top level with NEW thinking about redistribution of income using Champions League money.
27.50: The human dilemma.
So rather than repeat what was said originally and very well developed in the comments on the Michael Grant article on the previous blog, I thought I would look at what I think is the greatest barrier to change which was the last item above – the human dilemma. *
Modern football reminds me of a description of a scene from hell where a visitor looks into one room and sees an emaciated group around a table on which is set a large pot full of stew. They cannot eat because their arms have been set straight at the elbow and elongated so that they cannot get a spoon in their mouths. It is a miserable place. Then the visitor goes upstairs and enters a similar room with occupants similarly handicapped, but where everyone is well fed and contented. “How can this be?” he asks his guide. “Well downstairs all their energies are spent in the nigh impossible task of feeding their insatiable hunger, whilst up here they simply feed each other.”
The analogy is bent a little but not broken in the sense that there are fat and emaciated folk in the football version of the lower room but it is not a healthy place as the fat can themselves become emaciated over time (see Liverpool and even Man Utd) but, generally speaking, self-interest or rather what is perceived as self-interest, holds sway.
Human nature that causes the human dilemma is well reflected in normal business where dog eats dog, then eats the food of the dog it ate if it comes out top dog. Football however cannot exist on a dog eat dog basis because it is interdependent as a business. Dog eating dog is bad for business because over a period of time even the top dog will die of starvation.
Now without abusing the dog metaphor any further and risk attracting dog’s abuse, why is it that something which should be as self-evident as looking after each other is good for business, be such a hard sell?
I said in the podcast around 12.48 that folk need to let go of the notions they have clung on to about football, but why is that so difficult?
Perhaps the resistance to that change can be found, at least in the case of Celtic, who at present are asked in the current debate to make a sacrifice for others, either in the form of gate sharing or giving up some Champion Leagues winnings (if/when they qualify) can be found in the genesis of the club and the memory of that genesis passed from generation to generation.
Everyone knows that the original purpose that Brother Walfrid had for Celtic was to feed the poor in the East End of Glasgow and many of that poor had come from Ireland to be strangers in a strange land.
As a Calton man born in the Gallowgate, as was my grandfather (my dad was found under a cabbage in Well St) I’ve never really identified much with the Irish context of Celtic’s history, although I do recognise its importance to many supporters with Irish family ties, but that dimension adds a further layer to the human dilemma.
Think of it, you form a football club to raise money to feed yourself because you live in an environment where welcome mats are in short supply. That money raised is YOUR money. Your life depends on it as does your family’s as well as your close neighbour (usually in the same close). How prepared are you to share what income you have had to raise yourself with others who you believe have been less than charitable towards you?
Add that folk memory to the human selfish trait of wanting what you spend on football spent on meeting your own desire, which is to make you happy watching an entertaining and successful team on the park and you get an idea of where the resistance to a more equitable sharing comes from and how deep it goes.
I use Celtic here because they are my club and part of my life experience and I have no idea if other clubs experience that added layer of resistance to sharing, if indeed they are in position to share. But if we are ever to be able to introduce gate sharing or what I see as the easier alternative of redistribution of UEFA geld because in not coming direct from supporters pockets it has less of the Celtic folk memory layer to overcome, then those who will be asked to make a sacrifice have to be given the confidence that the aim is not to impoverish them (and the Celtic community memory of poverty and fighting it is as strong today in the form of The Celtic Foundation, The Kano Foundation and the numerous charity events organised by supporters and prominent blogs) but to enrich their neighbours, but doing so in such a way that they enrich themselves. That is the challenge.
In the upper room in the earlier hellish description, the occupiers present the ultimate example of charity in that in feeding each other they feed themselves.
- PS the podcast covers other issues that some 18 months later might still be of interest.
Danish Pastry says: September 9, 2015 at 5:12 am
By the way, Martin Hannan was comparing Hibs one year out in the 1890s to the RFC – Sevco thing, to promote his view that Sevco is the same club. Any Hibbies historians? I understood Hibs first incorporated during the first decade of the 20th century. So on the face of it Hannan’s comparison is not quite accurate.
=======================
DP – Hibs were originally founded in 1875, but played their last game in February 1891. They did not play at all in seasons 1891-92 or 1892-93. A new club was formed and was admitted to the newly established Scottish League Division 2 for season 1893-94 (which they won, but there was no automatic promotion – and for some reason Clyde was elected to the first division instead – perhaps a Glasgow bias had already been established 😈 ).
This was in the period before clubs were incorporated and I believe that their status was much more akin to being in abeyance for the two seasons the club was dormant. “Abeyance” in legal terms has a definition of “the position of being without, or of waiting for, an owner or claimant”. A number of Junior sides have had periods of abeyance in their history, so it is a well established process.
The text below is a transcription of a Scotsman Article from October 1892 showing that when the club was being reformed efforts were made to distance itself from the previous committee and to become non-sectarian.
Hibs had won the Scottish Cup in 1886/87 and their demise was actually accelerated by the formation of Celtic in 1888, when many of Hibs best players were attracted by the financial rewards on offer at the new club. (plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose).
Hibs were incorporated in 1903.
Before anyone responds, I know that Hearts also went bust in 1905. A new company was formed, but the reconstruction of the club was conducted under the Companies Act of the period and involved repayment to all creditors in full and provision for the shareholders of the oldco so that they were not disadvantaged. (it would be considered a solvent reconstruction in today’s parlance)
Homunculus says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 1:12 pm
burghGer says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:35 am
Much as that was an interesting read you start from a false position. Rangers didn’t “newco/drop debts”
Rangers still exists, the debts still exist. The club is in liquidation. Eventually the liquidators will secure as much as they can, pay the creditors what they can and kill the club off.
No-one, either domestic or European is punishing Rangers in any way. They are simply being treated like any other new club. If anything they were given preferential treatment by being allowed into the SFL (as was) ahead of other clubs which had been about for years. I make no comment on that as it was the members of the SFL who voted for it.
=========================================
And don’t forget that they were a party to the 5 WA as well as the former Rangers, something that was never available to any other new entrant to the SFL (as was).
Bawsman says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 12:37 pm
What would be the fallout, as far as The Rangers are concerned, if Ashley gets canned from SD?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97e58a50-557a-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html
**********************************************************************
He won’t get canned. He’s the majority shareholder.
From the FT article:
…. for the second year in a row, Royal London would vote against the re-election of Sports Direct’s non-executive directors. This year, it would also cast its vote against the election of Mr Ashley
Royal London is only a small shareholder in Sports Direct, with 0.18 per cent of the shares
Upthehoops 7.21
Perhaps a wee reminder/update with attempts to get journalists involved is in order.
Last year September time or thereabouts SFM contributors contacted 13 recognisable sports journos with the material iro DOS ebts kept from Harper MacLeod.
Most never replied, one said there had been intimidation in the approach but I have the e mail and it was anything but threatening. Perhaps confusing what arrived with what the boss got.
One was interested but it never went past that due to lack of trust on my part.
Later in May this year another got interested but was sceptical but had the good grace to reply saying that the case that required evidence had been witheld was sound but no publication though.
More recently 3 more journos were contacted, one via a SFM contributor pushing the case and two others through Twitter contacts. One of those promises to read the LNS blogs from SFM along with the Judicial Review exclusion of the wee tax bill so he and the SFM contact are on the waiting for a reply list.
The other has read the material says it stinks meaning the LNS commissioning but nothing public yet.
I see no point pressuring any. It is obviously a matter with some personal risk to them and I’m hoping the courage to publish that it stinks will be found.
If it is published then those who did not publish and were on the original list sent the material and have done nothing will suffer a loss of reputation for not investigating or having the good grace to respond.
I’m hoping for more positive news from a down south initiative but it might take a book by Val McDairmid to make The Murder of Football part of the history of Scottish football.
Re Dave Jetson & Dahlia McCoist (apologies in advance, mods!):
If (a big, giant, humongous “if”) AMcC is prepared to settle, why is he doing that now?
Is it:
He has some real, insider, knowledge that all is not financially well at Ibrox & that he should get what he can now?
He wants/needs to repair reputational damage before getting another “gig”?
He wants/needs to loosen some “golden handcuffs” to get his book out for Christmas?
He’s fed up with the rigmarole & simply wants out?
Any other suggestions?
John James suggests he is going to be BT’ Sports Neil MCCann
zerotolerance1903 says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:37 am
Sorry for three posts in a row, but I note this quote from the ET article:
Asked about the issue back in May, King said: “The fact is he has a contract, it was committed to and the club must respect contracts.
The “club” has a contract with Mr McCoist does it? The club and company must be the same thing in Mr King’s eyes as well then. Nice to know
___________________________________________
The “club” must respect contracts must it?
Even ones involving Mike Ashley and Sports Direct?
No, lots of jumping up and down, stamping of feet, besmirching (so to speak) of MA’s name and demands to renegotiate that particular contract, whilst still expecting to hold on to the £5million they received as part of the agreement. Such dignity.
Jingso.Jimsie says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 4:03 pm
If (a big, giant, humongous “if”) AMcC is prepared to settle, why is he doing that now?
Is it:
He has some real, insider, knowledge that all is not financially well at Ibrox & that he should get what he can now?
He wants/needs to repair reputational damage before getting another “gig”?
He wants/needs to loosen some “golden handcuffs” to get his book out for Christmas?
He’s fed up with the rigmarole & simply wants out?
Any other suggestions?
========================
The rumour on Twitter is that he’s had an offer from BT Sport. If true, maybe they’ll pay him his last 3 months as a signing on fee?
burghGer says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:35 am
the law is designed to allow that business to be preserved, even if the legal entity operating it has failed.
_____________________________________
No it’s not, it’s designed to look after the interests of creditors and provide protection from being shafted by businesses dumping debt and then pheonixing elsewhere and carrying on as if nothing happened. The fact that Duffer & Duffer failed miserably in this respect – e.g. trying to sign Daniel Cousin thereby adding more creditors to the already mountainous pile, was no reflection of the law. The top priority of an Administrator is to preserve the interests of the creditors, and if this can be best served by the company concerned continuing in business then so be it, but it’s not the chief concern.
On another note – can you advise where games took place with players in Rangers Holding Company jerseys as I seem to have missed this, or is it the case that the mountainous unsustainable debt pile built up using taxpayers, banks’ and generally other people’s money – via all sorts of illegal and immoral means – was used to acquire players responsible for winning the honours that RFC fans wish to accredit to the current incarnation?
You can attempt all the legal sophistry you want but the simple fact is RFC (or the company operating it if you prefer) won trophies using illegal tax schemes and money from others they couldn’t afford to pay back.
Subsequently, their fans want to; on the one hand; tell us that the club didn’t die and wasn’t responsible for all the bad things done; some holding company was able to suck all the bad things out leaving just the club behind; but on the other hand they want to claim the history (i.e. trophies) built on those same bad things.
Can you explain to us what other activities this alleged Holding Company vehicle was engaged in other than acquiring players for Rangers FC that the club could never otherwise have afforded? (in the very words of your esteemed ex-Chairman at the FTT).
Can you not see the hypocrisy and absurdity of this position and understand the revulsion it generates amonst fans of other clubs?
neepheid says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Jingso.Jimsie says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 4:03 pm
========================
The rumour on Twitter is that he’s had an offer from BT Sport. If true, maybe they’ll pay him his last 3 months as a signing on fee?
==============================================
“Golden handcuffs” then.
DCK must have the key on the same ring as the one for the legendary warchest.
MoreCelticParanoiaMoreCelticParanoia says:
I’m sorry to say you are wasting pixels. All the evidence suggests that a great many, if not the majority, of Rangers fans have learnt Feck All on their journey.
If those who fail to learn from history really are doomed to repeat it, then it’s nothing but fecking Groundhog Days for Scottish Football, until Govan runs out of easy marks for chancers
I really hope there is no truth in the rumour that McCoist is going to BT. I’m looking forward to watching the European football on there and him being involved would take a bit of that away for me.
Prior to his “name names” disgrace I had nothing in particular against the man but that really has turned me against him.
Congratulations to you BP&SP 😉 !!!!
Big Pink says:
Moderator:
September 9, 2015 at 6:31 pm
_____
BP,
Felicitations on your 20th anniversary together.Have a good one.
Just listening with some amazement to BBC Sportsound where, five days after the event, Kenny MacIntyre, Richard Wilson and a ridiculously enraged Pat Nevin are really putting the boot into the SFA over “plane gate.”
Tom English, thankfully, came across in a much more circumspect manner, even suggestiong the bigger SFA “offence”, if there was one, was the disabled fans at Hampden in Monday being unable to see the match because of extra advertising hoardings.
I kept asking why, tonight, would this show devote 30 minutes on this topic?
I really have no idea what the answer to that one is.
Auldheid says:
Blog Writer:
September 9, 2015 at 3:57 pm
=========================
Thank you for the update Auldheid. As I said earlier the cultural power of the Ranger support stretches way beyond what it should. I am utterly convinced had this been any other club the media would be acting in the completely opposite manner in which they have been doing.
jimmci says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 7:20 pm
Just listening with some amazement to BBC Sportsound where, five days after the event, Kenny MacIntyre, Richard Wilson and a ridiculously enraged Pat Nevin are really putting the boot into the SFA over “plane gate.”
================================
Yet each and every one of them supported the SFA in its quest to allow a new club straight into the top league. A new club that arose from the ashes of a another club that had stolen millions from the public purse and many others. Not even a mutter of condemnation for the SFA over that.
And with Big Chris Sutton also on board what’s the odds Chris asks Sally,what did you whisper in Lennys ear,do want tell the viewers or will I,and he will.
the OC/NC debate rages on, here is my take on this – ‘Rangers’ are de jure a new club but de facto the same club. So legally they are indeed a new club for all the reasons that have been promoted on here (incorporation, admin, liquidation, new entry to league, the duality of rangers in aug 2012, and the need for a 5 way agreement at all).
But a team in blue playing at ibrox with the name rangers will always be viewed in football terms as the same club (not saying I particularly agree but again reality) This is very common in the football world as the rules are not founded in law, so essentially whatever the FA’s say becomes the norm. Obviously they can’t break normal business or criminal law but the rules are not codified in law. There are numerous examples down south of OC/NC but in reality they sail on, just to show how easy this is – without searching can anyone reel off the complete list of FC’s that have been liquidated but yet still play in the English leagues? (I can’t – but there are a few) and when we hear the results do our brains register – oh but that is not the team I heard John Alexander Gordon use his intonation on in the 70s, no we hear and register that they are still about.
Legally we deal with companies, practically/human we deal with brands/names.
So how do some go bust and some magically survive – only two things are needed to survive:
1) Transfer of trademarks/registered names
2) Complicity of FA’s
CG buying the trademarks/names is all he really needed from a business point of view, and there are numerous examples in business esp in auto world (Triumph, LandRover, Jaguar etc) same “brand/marque” different company.
From a footballing POV all he needed was the 5-way agreement, thereby allowing the SFA to treat “Rangers” as a franchise, this helped all the parties achieve what they wanted and minimal money changed hands (footballing debts is a real beauty of a non-legally required sweetener)
The other suspicious thing that happened soon after was the renaming of Airdrie united and here’s the quote at the time from Jim Ballantyne
“When the old company went into liquidation, it was in a different football environment and the use of the name was not possible at that time,” he said.
“With all the recent changes, however, and subsequent rulings, it paved the way for us to make the move and therefore we set the wheels in motion.
It was never pointed out – what specifically changed, and what specific rulings but it doesn’t take a great leap to tie RFC trademark/Franchise/5-way shuffle to that.
So we will never resolve this argument because like the infamous cat, they are both alive(brand/franchise/new-club) and dead (company/old-club) at the same time.
Transfer of “RFC/Ready” lion/football crest first to Sevco Scotland and then to TRFC :
https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/002557379
Add as has been noted before the “RFC/Ready” lion/football crest, the RFC/Ready script crest and the simpler RFC script are now owned (not just licensed) by SD transferred from TRFC following transfer from Sevco Scotland following purchase:
https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/002557379
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/History/1/UK00001413074
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00001412454
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00000953910
which brings up the interesting philosophical debate – if by buying the trademarks and assets
bought the “club” what happens when those two things are separated – are the properties/chattels the “club” or the trademarks – my argument is the latter (see 1&2 and auto examples) above, so SD now effectively own the “club” but not the business/company.
Going back to the 5-way, what gets a little lost is the simple question – why was one needed at all? answers please Mr Regan.
Scotland needs a strong East Fife and Arbroath!
upthehoops says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 7:33 pm
‘…Yet each and every one of them supported the SFA in its quest to allow a new club straight into the top league……’
__________
What I find interesting is speculating just to what depth of deceit our ‘football hacks’ would individually be prepared to descend, if they were ordinary ‘news’ journalists, if they were warned off a story by Bute House heavies, or by very senior police officers.
Men and women too craven to report truthfully on a matter of sport?
Would they roll over when told to by politicians who were up to no good?
Would they shut up and refrain from asking questions when threatened by senior police officers if they tried to pursue police corruption cases, or if Bute House sent some thugs to give them a doing if they refused to back off from a political scandal?
Men and, indeed, women, who are feart to report a football story?
I suspect that there is no plumbing the depths to which such creatures would sink,if they were seriously leaned on, when one thinks how the fear of losing their :slamb: has made the majority of them deniers of truth, and propagandists for some of the biggest lies ever propagated in Sport.
They can spend a half hour on radio waxing furious about ‘plane gate’, while ignoring Ogilvie gate, SDM gate, EBT-recipients-gate, same-club-gate,5-way agreement-gate, and so on and on.
Cowardly, complicit, yes-men, from whose lips drips self-serving, unprincipled distortion and/or denial of truth.
A plague upon them all!May they never write another ‘journalistic’ word, unless in confession of their wrong-doing..
upthehoops says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 7:28 pm
They did.
Most of the papers, the tabloids at least, ran with the story of Rangers having died. Traynor’s piece was a classic example.
It was only later that they seemed to change their tune. I think the broadcast media may have been at the forefront of that re-writing of history.
Some contemporaneous images, these are from newspapers at the time. The bottom one is from the sun.
Please don’t click the links if you don’t want to see them.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/Tamb/8BCDC908-CFC9-47F1-A677-BE4C20B2747C-12352-00000DBC445E98B1.jpg
http://thesoccerobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/20120613_rip-rangers.jpg
http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01527/SNA1301GX1_1527466a.jpg
There was a time a certain manager of an Ibrox club was a bit miffed his pay was made public.And he considered taking a pay cut.
Just wondered if he is a bit miffed today that it has been made public the pay he has yet to receive, and will he consider another pay cut
Homunculus says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 8:49 pm
‘…Most of the papers, the tabloids at least, ran with the story of Rangers having died. Traynor’s piece was a classic example.
It was only later that they seemed to change their tune. I think the broadcast media may have been at the forefront of that re-writing of history…’
___________
I think you may be right.
Good old BBC Scotland was right in there with a revisionism that makes Pravda of Soviet days look like a guardian of Truth!
I wonder who in particular it was who began to spread the word about the need to sing from the same hymn-sheet? What informal little get-togethers took place, ever so discreetly, to agree the broad strategy?
Sure as hell, something must have happened to cause such a unanimous, concerted onslaught on Truth, and denial of plain, already acknowledged facts!
Cluster One says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:03 pm
‘..There was a time a certain manager of an Ibrox club was a bit miffed his pay was made public.And he considered taking a pay cut.’
________
I have forgotten: was it ever established that he took an actual pay cut or was it simply a deferred payment arrangement?
John Clark says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:25 pm
Cluster One says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:03 pm
‘..There was a time a certain manager of an Ibrox club was a bit miffed his pay was made public.And he considered taking a pay cut.’
________
I have forgotten: was it ever established that he took an actual pay cut or was it simply a deferred payment arrangement?
———————-
Good question.I will put that in the folder “Asking the questions the media won’t ask”
JC
I am sure it was a differed agreement.
Oops I seem to be on the moderation naughty step – any hints? 🙂
it does make me fondly remember RTC – all and every post I made there never made it past moderation limbo, ahhh the good old days 😀
BP happy anniversary
You know, if the ‘Scottish establishment’ is an ailing tabloid with a falling circulation, a bank with no risk controls that effectively went bust seven years ago, a bowling club committee with no clue masquerading as a football association, an assortment of chancers and criminals, and a relict cultural group with a delusional identity then you know who I really feel for? The souls whose identity is so tied up in opposition to this nonsensical tale that they actually buttress the fiction with their credulity.
Thanks for the good wishes. Just back from the Buttery – stuffed t’gunnels.
BTW, John Clark – I thought you bringing Mrs C to Perth?
Was in Dundee today and was speaking with an Arab supporting customer and he was telling me he had cancelled his Sky contract as he was hacked off at the money spent by English Clubs in the transfer market. He commented that he was no longer supporting the money Sky are putting into English football to the detriment of Scottish Football. Good on you I said, just stream it like me 😛
(in reply to moderator) just realised I’m BVG!
cheers, more for future reference. I wondered if I had inadvertently used a blocked word or two, makes sense.
The thing that changed to allow Airdireonians to ‘acquire’ and use the name, was that the original company completed the liquidation process.
It’s great on here how the transparency helps answer some simple questions like the Airdrie one for example,could catch on.
One for yon State Aid guy to get his teeth into http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13709794.Quango_altered_valuation_report_to_boost_multi_million_payout_to_Sir_David_Murray_s_company/
A reasonable person might think that David murray had had more than his fair share of welfare payments over the years. Benefit Street right enough 👿
John Clark says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 8:41 pm
They can spend a half hour on radio waxing furious about ‘plane gate’, while ignoring Ogilvie gate, SDM gate, EBT-recipients-gate, same-club-gate,5-way agreement-gate, and so on and on.
=====================================================
Spot on John. It is difficult not to conclude that BBC employ only establishment lick spittle types on Sportsound. The news that Pat Nevin was enraged about ‘Plane Gate’ made me laugh. If there is a better example of an establishment lick spittle type on TV or radio I’d like to know who it is. It’s quite incredible that we have a publicly funded broadcaster that casts aside every principle it has when it reports on Scottish football.
Can you imagine the BBC holding a political debate where they declared beforehand certain subjects or people can’t be discussed, despite publicly known facts? I certainly can’t.
Big Pink says:
Moderator:
September 9, 2015 at 10:14 pm
‘..John Clark – I thought you bringing Mrs C to Perth?’
_______
I had to find out first whether that would have been permissible before I put the idea in her head!Turns out, though, that she has other plans for the day, although she was touched that I asked her.
(And it would be most unworthy of me to harbour any thoughts at all that she might have thought I had been looking for a driver! 😀
easyJambo says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 1:39 pm
————-
Thanks for the historical references Easy. I understood from what I read that it was a ‘pause’ as you mention (I like the word abeyance), though still don’t know why the pause occurred except ‘mismanagement’. The ‘sectarian’ issue brought up was also of interest. I read that the old Hibs originally had non-inclusive signing policy, but may have picked that up wrong. To my shame, I never knew too much about the clubs in my own home town before RTC and this blog, history/politics wise. It was just sport to me, that said, it was the non-sporting, off field issues in Glasgow put me right off club football by my early teens. What an education in social history we’ve had here, apart from all the other stuff.
Phil’s latest a dire financial warning. Low on funds. It seems almost too incredible to be true. The SFA and SPFL, after all that’s happened, should have Ibrox on special monitoring. But we’ve been hearing these predictions of low funds for so long (and I don’t doubt Phil has decent sources) but somehow there seems to be yet another channel of funding that turns up as if by magic. There must be some frantic activity in the background that we never see.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-problems-of-an-underfunded-hostile-takeover/
Edit: John James on DK’s jetting in: https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/ninjaman-speaks-from-the-heart-on-recent-developments/comment-page-1/#comment-2812
And BBC Radio Scotland giving air time on the feckin News to Nevin’s rant against ‘plane gate’ a few minutes ago.
Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees! Wrong plane, blazers in the plenty-ofleg-room seats,burgers at Macdonalds, clearly of far greater importance than the wholesale disregard of the worst act of cheating in Scottish football that has ever been recorded, and the complicity of the SFA in that cheating.
Nevin is a numpty, played like a rag doll, as so many former players have been ( the latest I saw was Stefan Klos of the £2 million EBT, on Monday, cheerfully accepting spoonfeeding from a hack, and referring to the ‘relegation’ of RFC).
Nevin clearly leaves his much-vaunted intelligence at the studio door and buys into the the BIG Lie , aimed at diverting the football supporter’s ire from the really serious matters of the rigging of our sport to relatively trivial complaints about poor travel arrangements.
Been away so maybe off the pace.
Also maybe with a slightly different perspective on a couple of things from others here on stuff.
First the travel arrangements for the return journey from Georgia are disgraceful and should be in the news.
We, Mrs Finloch and I, suffered a four and a half hour journey back from Crete in a Thomson Sardine Tin, Tuesday into Wednesday, that did not get us to Glasgow till 2am and home till 4am which was also waking up time in Crete.
I’m feeling it today and wouldn’t relish a physical challenge like a game against Germany in the manner and time-scale our boys were given with an even worse schedule.
So I think its right to give the SFA pelters and yes it might be easy for the lamb munching BBC “trusty-rent-a-gobs” but travel arrangements like that which seriously disenfranchised our boys for the next big game are just plan daft and totally incompetent.
Stuff like this should be spoken about and not just because it makes easy and non controversial programming and column inches.
It affects Scottish Football.
The question – Should these well paid “trags” also be raising other real stuff?- is a different matter.
Yes undoubtedly they should.
But we all suspect and maybe even know that there is an unwritten “editorial” agreement not to do so and nothing will happen till the proverbial iron curtain of silence over some stuff crashes.
I don’t think it will, at least not for a long time and I hope I’m wrong about that.
Secondly I missed the fun and games and sheer theatre of the recent “arrests”.
So stuff is happening.
Wonderful news for any fair minded person but I am very cynical here.
A long time ago I recalled the old adage “He who pays the piper calls the tune”‘ before the “findings” of LNS.
I don’t know if that is actually happening here but my instinct warns me that nothing will start with an even and fair deck.
And again the piper will play to his master.
I’m not sure who his master is but would not be surprised if the whole charade is expertly corralled to avoid any chance of a “dem bones” series of follow ups.
I’d love to be wrong on that account too.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/obituaries/13654651.Kenny_Waugh/
A nice tribute to Kenny Waugh, Chairman and saviour of Hibs in their darkest days. This bit caught my eye-
“To some fans, who naturally wanted Hibs to be contending for the Champions League, that suggested a lack of ambition on his part, a lack of “fire in his belly,” as one blogger put it. But for Kenny Waugh, ambition was worthless without survival. Should Hibs ever reach the heights again, perhaps even the Champions League, they will have much to thank him for.”
Homunculus says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 6:50 pm
I really hope there is no truth in the rumour that McCoist is going to BT. I’m looking forward to watching the European football on there and him being involved would take a bit of that away for me.
Prior to his “name names” disgrace I had nothing in particular against the man but that really has turned me against him.
____________________________________________________________________________
You would have to wonder about the sanity of BT if they do employ him. Let’s face it very few fans of Scottish football outside TRFC fans will want to hear his cheeky drivel, his “we demand to know” comments sealed that one. But would many TRFC fans want to hear it given the amount of cash he has continued to siphon off to get his garden straightened out.
Then there is the non-partisan bit. Teams under McCoist were pure gash! Why would you want to employ someone as a pundit who appears to be clueless about football!? Surely that approach has already been taken by the BBC with the employment of Chico the clown
Poor wee Pat is getting it in the neck this morning. Sometimes I think we exist in our own SFM bubble and think everyone else simply must be focused on the things that concern us on here and if not they are part of the problem.
Scotland played the other night and were unexpectedly beaten by a country we should’ve been capable of defeating. I don’t know the exact details but there was apparently some mix up with travel arrangements. What any of this has to do with EBTs, Rangers/SFA, SMSM is beyond me.
The idea that until you have commented on such issues, and commented to our satisfaction (agree 100% with us), then what you say is nothing but distraction is a bit unfair. Scottish football is more than just a one issue place were all roads continuously lead back to Ibrox.
I don’t want to use Keny Waugh as a political football to be kicked down Adam’s “Road to Ibrox.”
But at the same time I can’t help but wonder why the hell he was worried about survival? Just transfer the damn ‘club’ and get on with it.
And yes I am being sarcastic, for the absence of doubt.
On a more serious note, (and apologies to Adam if I do return to matters Ibrox (its by necessity btw, am I the only one who completely missed ‘planegate?’)) I’m intrigued by a comment on Phil’s blog about the administration option “not being available.” Is that because they don’t trust the major creditor to play ball I wonder? And if so, using Ninja James or whatever he’s called’s numbers, if they use the first £4.5m of the £11 odd million equity funding available (40m shares @ 27p) to repay the 3B’s debt, who’s to say Mike wouldn’t go after the remaining £6.5m?
incredibleadamspark says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 10:05 am
__________________________________________
I agree. The problem is not that too much airtime was given to PlaneGate – just that little or no time is spent investigating the corruption at the top.
I think the failure to carry out a task that is fundamental to the SFA – like making proper arrangements for travelling parties in away games- is fair game, and the coverage it has received seems commensurate to the offence.
I do understand the frustration of those who are railing against that coverage, but it would be wrong of the media to ignore PlaneGate just because they ignore other failings of the authorities – and two wrongs do not make a right.
I have very little sympathy for the Scotland players over “Travelgate”, given an atrocious performance in Georgia. They played as if they had arrived at the game after a 12 hour journey and a sleepless night. As for our esteemed corps of sports writers, who also lost a night’s sleep, unfortunately the well of sympathy ran dry years ago over their very own abysmal performance covering at least 10 years.
However lack of sympathy for the “victims” is no excuse for the monumental incompetence of the SFA. Taken together with the seating of disabled fans behind an advertising board at Hampden a few days later,then you surely must conclude that the SFA is totally unfit for purpose. It’s really not surprising that good old Charles Green managed to run rings round them to get get hold of the RFC membership of the SFA.
So I agree that anything that reflects on the competence of the SFA is an important issue for this forum. Until we get an SFA which is honest, competent, and unconflicted, Scottish football will never make real progress. The problem is that the shennanigans of 2012 have left everyone at a senior level hopelessly conflicted. I wonder how they feel about the strong possibility of Charles Green and Craig Whyte giving evidence under oath in a court of law? Uncomfortable maybe?
While I have no doubt the club playing out of Ibrox and its holding company remain a loss making businesses with no line of credit from a bank I do find the predictions of running out of cash in a few weeks time a bit premature.
The season ticket money and the decent home games must surely have brought more income into the club than last season. Yes there are rumours of the plus 40k crowds triggering payments to the Sevco triangle but the club must still be getting a share of that increased income.
While the general running costs for Ibrox, Murray Park etc will remain high as in previous seasons for oldco and newco (with a possible drop in costs due to Llambias’ austerity) the players costs will be reduced and the gardeners will soon be off they payroll.
In previous years they have managed to get to March 2014 and Jan 2015 without the need for emergency loans.
Like Green’s IPO I believe the plan will be to try and do some form of share issue come the end of the year as cash will most likely be required in the new calendar year.
Given the developments of last week and the uncertainty with regard to asset ownership I agree that this timetable may well be scuppered but still can’t see any emergency funding being announced until the end of the year.
Having to announce the need for emergency funding before then and only a few months into a season that is going well on the pitch would surely be admission of pure incompetence given all the previous BS, aims, objectives and promises.
Smugas says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 10:21 am
…I’m intrigued by a comment on Phil’s blog about the administration option “not being available.” Is that because they don’t trust the major creditor to play ball I wonder?
———–
That puzzled me annaw. I tried asking about it in the comments but not sure my Q got through.
tayred says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 9:56 am
============
tayred, I’d pay to avoid seeing him after the dog whistling nonsense but have you seen BT’s current coverage? Wooden wouldn’t do it justice. The cheeky chappie has extensive experience of talking drivel in front of a camera in a kind of relaxed, slightly less cheesy and smug than Lineker, way.
Whether that’ll override the negative feelings of non-Rangers fans who hated those comments and the TRFC fans who call him a wage thief, we’ll have to see (if he’s actually been offered the job).
Despite his failings as a manager and his involvement in the Sevco fiasco Sally has a fairly likable and affable media persona, not least shown by his 11 years as team captain on Question of Sport. He has a fair amount of prior punditry experience and overall I think he would enhance BT Sport’s coverage.
blu says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 12:16 pm
tayred says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 9:56 am
============
tayred, I’d pay to avoid seeing him after the dog whistling nonsense but have you seen BT’s current coverage? Wooden wouldn’t do it justice. The cheeky chappie has extensive experience of talking drivel in front of a camera in a kind of relaxed, slightly less cheesy and smug than Lineker, way.
______________________________________________________________________________
I’m no fan of Lineker, but at least his smug comments haven’t led to several poor buggers having to have Police patrolling outside their house just because they did their job! The look on Allys face that infamous day was a whole lot more offensive than just smugness.
I sincerely hope these rumours are wrong, the feelings towards McCoist might come as a nasty surprise to BT (who are probably utterly ignorant of it – which is no defence whatsoever).
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer:
September 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
Smugas says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 10:21 am
…I’m intrigued by a comment on Phil’s blog about the administration option “not being available.” Is that because they don’t trust the major creditor to play ball I wonder?
———–
That puzzled me annaw. I tried asking about it in the comments but not sure my Q got through
***************************************************************
Saw that and was puzzled by it. Administration is clearly still an option for the Company.
However, if an administrator is appointed who caries out his duties diligently then I guess the issue is that it may not be an option that sees Rangers* playing football through to the end of the season.
Administrator ordinarily should:
1. Cut costs. Can they get it to break even with an already threadbare squad such that will still be able to fulfill fixtures?
2. Sell assets, oops ownership is in question and most assets are encumbered
3. Seek a buyer for the company, difficult sell given its legal issues
I think there’s every chance that because the finances are so dire that the administration results in the business being terminated and thus the Club being unable to fulfill it’s fixtures and thus being expelled from the League.
Andy Newport @AndyNewportPA 6s6 seconds ago
Dave King confirms Rangers have struck payoff agreement with Ally McCoist “with immediate effect”
So I guess its either BT Sport or the Beechgrove Garden
Given how little time on the contract was left, those pointing to Dire Straits, probably have a point. No doubt the Sultans of Spin will be telling us that everything in the garden will be now be Rosy, as a result of a new loan agreement with the Royal Botanic Gardens,
On the administration thing. I believe it is Phil’s contention that if Sports Direct decide to take action against Rangers that they would do so through the appointment of a Receiver. Given that they hold a floating charge that would be a possibility.
“The Facility is to be secured by (1) a floating charge over the Club’s assets and (2) fixed charges over Murray Park, Edmiston House, Albion Car Park, and the Club’s registered trademarks.
http://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/scotland-companies/receivership
The Role of the Receiver
Once a receiver is appointed, he/she will be empowered to realise assets (such as property) which are covered by the floating charge in order to pay the secured creditor that is holding the charge. It is to this preferential creditor with which the receiver has a primary duty of care – as agreed with the legally binding floating charge. Any remaining funds after payment to the secured creditor will then be sent back to the company.
—————————————–
I know that administration is defence against a winding up order. Normally someone would apply for such an order and the company would place itself into administration negating the effect of the order.
I am not sure whether such a defence could be used in receivership. Indeed the same article states that a Receiver could still be appointed during a liquidation. So I would infer that if a Receiver is put in place then that is that as far as the company in receivership is concerned. Assets are disposed of to satisfy the debt covered by the floating charge. The company keeps any surpus funds after the debt has been paid.
The question is, can and will Sports Direct do that.
Cluster One says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:34 pm
John Clark says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:25 pm
Cluster One says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:03 pm
‘..There was a time a certain manager of an Ibrox club was a bit miffed his pay was made public.And he considered taking a pay cut.’
________
I have forgotten: was it ever established that he took an actual pay cut or was it simply a deferred payment arrangement?
———————-
Good question.I will put that in the folder “Asking the questions the media won’t ask”
________
I seem to recall a Charlotte Fakes document, an email (Stockridge?) to the effect that Super Ally will expect his salary to be restored to the level agreed in the contract and all monies backdated.
Mind you Derek Johnstone appeared on Sky Sports to passionately assure everyone that McCoist had indeed taken a paycut because Ally told him so and that’s the end of it.
upthehoops says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 7:23 am
John Clark says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:41 pm
The news that Pat Nevin was enraged about ‘Plane Gate’ made me laugh. If there is a better example of an establishment lick spittle type on TV or radio I’d like to know who it is. ______________________________
Has Pat Nevin said anything about sectarian singing following his impassioned promise to call it out without fear or favour no matter who is involved, after the 2013 Scottish Cup final?
How convenient that this age old problem should be spontaneously eradicated from the game immediately following this outburst. Or maybe he just doesn’t follow the lower leagues in Scotland.
Lickspittle just about covers it. He can stick his Aztec Camera albums…. ➡ :slamb: :slamb: :slamb:
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer:
September 10, 2015 at 8:25 am
easyJambo says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 1:39 pm
————-
Thanks for the historical references Easy. I understood from what I read that it was a ‘pause’ as you mention (I like the word abeyance), though still don’t know why the pause occurred except ‘mismanagement’. The ‘sectarian’ issue brought up was also of interest. I read that the old Hibs originally had non-inclusive signing policy, but may have picked that up wrong. To my shame, I never knew too much about the clubs in my own home town before RTC and this blog, history/politics wise. It was just sport to me, that said, it was the non-sporting, off field issues in Glasgow put me right off club football by my early teens. What an education in social history we’ve had here, apart from all the other stuff.
………………
For what it’s worth, I believe Hibs did have a cash problem -caused by the treasurer jetting off, or whatever they did in those days, to N. America with the kitty. I’m not exactly sure of the details, though. Having said that, as far as I am aware, there was never any formal or legal ‘death’ of the club recorded – it just missed a season or so. When Hibs was set up it was as a parish response to the needs of young men in the parish of St Pat’s. Following on the clubs early example and success, Celtic was set up by Bro Walfrid and the poaching of players started! When Hibs were reformed, it was decided to open up recruitment to young lads irrespective of religious affiliation. I am not aware of any ‘darker’ sectarianism practised by the club prior to reforming but perhaps someone knows differently! Perhaps the new signing policy was to discourage our young cousins in the west poaching but I like to think it was down to a far sighted and practical recognition that the club did not need to be defined or restricted by its parochial roots, proud and honourable as they are.
I see Mr King is thanking Celtic for signing Scott Alan and weakening their biggest rival. All a cunning plan from TRFC. What he really means is we did not and do not have any money for transfers and have been made to look really silly here but Hibs started it….
Good afternoon, haven’t posted on here for a while and no doubt this will go into moderation so apologies if someone else posts this. From the Shareprophets website today
“On April 2nd 2015 Rangers Football Club (RFC) was booted off the AIM casino, the junior market of the London Stock Exchange. A nominated adviser, Nomad, for many AIM companies has not contacted us to explain how this was a direct result of a covert killing by the London Stock Exchange (LSE) itself. Shareholders in Sefton Resources (SER) be warned…you may be next.
As a reminder, disgraced WH Ireland (WHI) resigned as Nomad to Rangers on March 4. Under AIM Rules if no new Nomad is found within a month a company loses its AIM listing. And that is indeed what happened on April 2.
Rangers explained its humiliating ejection thus:
On 4 March 2015 the Company announced the suspension of trading on AIM following the resignation of its Nominated Adviser (“Nomad”), WH Ireland. The resignation was unexpected, as WH Ireland had previously indicated that it would assist the Company in effecting a smooth handover to a new Nomad following the General Meeting on 6 March.
During the course of the last month, the new Board of Directors has been working hard, to a tight timescale, with a prospective new Nomad to complete an appointment. Unfortunately, it has become apparent that this will not be possible.
There are two aspects to the due diligence that Nomads have to carry out before they accept appointment. Firstly, they have to be satisfied with the “fit and proper” status of the Board of Directors of the Company seeking to make the appointment. Secondly, they have to be satisfied that there are no reputational and / or historical issues with the profile and nature of the Company seeking to appoint which might adversely impact on the Nomad.
The prospective Nomad completed its checks on the “fit and proper” status of the existing and the proposed additional director of the Company and confirmed to the Company that it was satisfied on both fronts.
It then carried out its own assessment of the Company’s profile over the last several years and the issues which had been encountered. We understand this process involved discussions with the Exchange. We were advised that, following this process, the prospective Nomad was unable to take up appointment. We also understand that any alternative Nomad is liable to encounter similar difficulties and therefore the Company requires to terminate its listing on AIM.
Ends.
It is the last paragraph that is of interest. On condition of anonymity one Nomad not involved in the Rangers affair has now come forward to say that what really happened was:
As is always the case a Nomad about to resign or threatening to resign goes to the AIM Regulation Department and explains why it must act this way. AIM Regulation was thus aware of WH Ireland’s intentions before March 4.
We are told that in the weeks that followed AIM Regulation then contacted other nomads across the City with a conversation that started with words similar to “You really are not considering acting for Rangers are you?” In football terms Rangers had been ruled “offside” and there is just no point any of the other players (the Nomads) arguing with the referee. Nomads are approved by AIM Regulation, acting in a way that AIM Regulation makes clear will earn its displeasure is suicide. So no Nomad would take Rangers on. It was the LSE itself that killed off Rangers’ career on AIM.
Rangers may yet gain a listing on the even more junior ISDX stockmarket as it is not owned by the LSE.”
As an aside, Rangers International Football Club PLC are already listed on the Secondary Market of ISDX (although suspended), not much good for raising new money but lifting the suspension would make trading possible. I would post a link but might fall foul of the mods while they confirm my status
Carfins Finest says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 2:48 pm
Aye right! Whatever, Hibs finished it quite nicely though, I would say!
As discussed the other day the real purpose of the McCoist story is seen at the end of the article.
King : “I don’t know if he’s got another job to go to. I heard there is a possibility of that.
“But my real focus was on the Rangers situation. Could we do something that recognises the service Ally has given over the years. Ally is a hero, our all-time greatest goalscorer. We look forward having him and his mum back in the directors’ box. It’s where he belongs.”
For a loss making business a saving of £10 is a favourable in commercial terms.
And if the principle is so sound will they be asking McDowall to do the same for the good of the club?Or is it only club legends that need to be fawned over.
Really, it is a stitch up. Get the lamb munchers to print a story one day saying the situation will take a few more weeks to resolve with King having to fly in later this month then suddenly hey presto the deal has been done in double quick time apparently in a face to face met on Wednesday. (Is King in town or was McCoist out sampling the contents of the wine cellar?)
The cheeky chappie is now portrayed as being in the new boards good books. Like Greig a failed and hopeless manager (and NED) but deep down at heart a RRM. All at the time when there are rumours of a wee upcoming job in the MSM where Coisty can act as cheerleader and flag waver for the newco.
Can’t blame Traynor for getting money for old rope!!
PS
No reports of how the renegotiation of the SD contracts and the onerous ones that may be pumping money into the Sevco triangle are going.
Funny that!!
John Clark says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 9:17 pm
Homunculus says:
Member:
September 9, 2015 at 8:49 pm
‘…Most of the papers, the tabloids at least, ran with the story of Rangers having died. Traynor’s piece was a classic example.
It was only later that they seemed to change their tune. I think the broadcast media may have been at the forefront of that re-writing of history…’
___________
I think you may be right.
Good old BBC Scotland was right in there with a revisionism that makes Pravda of Soviet days look like a guardian of Truth!
I wonder who in particular it was who began to spread the word about the need to sing from the same hymn-sheet? What informal little get-togethers took place, ever so discreetly, to agree the broad strategy?
Sure as hell, something must have happened to cause such a unanimous, concerted onslaught on Truth, and denial of plain, already acknowledged facts!
======================================
John
Didn’t someone post on here something along the lines of having been told about “Rangers being institutionally protected”?
I can’t remember who or when, but it rings a bell.
You heard it here first.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34212152
Meanwhile, King indicated there’s no need for further investment from shareholders this season unless it is to bolster the playing squad.
“At the moment we are well funded through to the end of the season, we are ahead of where we thought we might be.”
Homunculus says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Ah, the perils of the interweb, there is so much valuable information on there and so much that is just not up to scratch. I’m afraid the website you refer to fails to mention that the information given (which, in itself isn’t accurate) relates to floating charges granted before 1st September 2003 (such as the fc granted by RFC plc to Bank of Scotland in 1999 which Law Financial now claim right to), not any recent charges granted to Sports Direct.
So things are hunky dory down with the finances down Govan Way therefore why no follow up questions re a previous article in June.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dave-king-targets-45-000-rangers-season-tickets-1-3796456
But King, who stated he will make “substantial investment” of his own over the next two months, is hopeful Rangers supporters will back the new board he led into power at a general meeting of shareholders in March.
“We would have to move 45,000 season tickets to reach that target of £12m or £13m,” said King.”
If that was the report in June then taken at face value the club were hoping for high season ticket income and still required sunstantial investment from King.
Did I miss the reported substantial investment between June and, let’s be genrous, the end of August?
The last reported figures in August for season tickets were circa 33k sales so less than the 45k target so circa £3m to £5m down on target (then minus the VAT of course).
The pay as you goes and near full houses will of course make up the difference but that then becomes more of a cash flow issue if and when any season ticket money gathered up front has gone out the door.
As often pointed out the basic running costs of the oldco without the footballing operations were circa £14m per annum. To have a clear run to the end of the season day to day costs will need to have been reduced to under £10m and the playing budget down from £7m to say £4, to even have a sniff of not needing any cash.
Can’t see it myself given the need to pay back the £1.5m to the three bears in December and MA still holding his £5m loan over their heads.
It really must be down to a matter of when will the cash injection be required and a question of how long does it take for the MSM to forget DCK’s previous pronouncements.
OnandOnandOnand says: September 10, 2015 at 3:41 pm
——————–
Welcome back Onandx3
Your knowledge and insight has been sorely missed since the demise of the RTC blog.
The point you have picked up about the AIM Regulators is an interesting one and should raise some red flags about what really went on prior to the current board taking control, far less the actions of the current board since then.
Some of the issues may become public knowledge should any of the current cases that go to trial, but until that happens it’s just a matter of trusting your instincts about what and whose stories and sources are plausible.
————-
On a separate issue
I note that Leeann Dempster has responded to King’s claims about the Scott Allan approach.
Jamie Borthwick@jamiekborthwick
Leeanne Dempster: “I took the initial call from Rangers. I can confirm that Mr King’s version of events is not correct.”
———————
I guess it’s a measured way of saying that Mr King is a glib and ………. etc.
EasyJambo
I haven’t been far away but it’s been tough reading from time to time 😕 I’ll jump in if I have anything useful to add but always appreciate your informative comments
Quote of the week from Stubbs on Honest dave’s version of the Allen transfer (the version trashed by Hibs) : “I find the timing of it all a bit strange.”
Mebbes a few folk inside fitba have a clue after all!
scottc says:
“The thing that changed to allow Airdireonians to ‘acquire’ and use the name, was that the original company completed the liquidation process.”
—————————————————————————————-
Not really – the original company being liquidated had no bearing on the name change, for that the new company/club still had to have both of the following happen (from prior post):
==============================================================================================
– only two things are needed to survive:
1) Transfer of trademarks/registered names
2) Complicity of FA’s
==============================================================================================
So for #1 KPMG belatedly sold/transferred to the club/supporters after realising no more value would be gained, this trademark/name transfer was independent of other assets. This gave the new company the business world rights to the badge, name and company name change (which also happened) but still under a new company number.
this is entirely consistent with “brand” examples you can find in any business arena.
but crucially they still needed #2 to use the club name in the scottish football world, and here is where the SFA/SPL/SPFL had created a new precedence with TRFC.
#2 gets to the heart of most “diddy team” supporters I talk to about this, why are they so riled up? because we all have this visceral belief that had it been “our team” and not RFC going bust, then no 5-way accommodation would have been allowed, hence Gretna, Airdrie UTD and others.
Suddenly with TRFC the rules changed to keep the continuity story alive – not for the benefit of the fans as such, but for the benefit of
bank balance and the SFA blushes and to stave of the armageddon/civil unrest/nuclear winter that we had been hyped to believe was around the corner.
here is Jim Ballantyne effectively saying as much (don’t know how I have missed this quote for so long!)
==============================================================================================================
The Rangers saga helped pave the way for an ‘Onians revival after the Ibrox club were admitted with their original name last summer despite going bust.
Ballantyne said he “couldn’t answer” when asked if the ‘Onians title would have been revived had Rangers’ troubles not happened.
But he added: “Once the Rangers situation came about, it made it clearer for us to put forward a case with regards to renaming our club Airdrieonians.
“When I look at how the Rangers situation developed, and the outcomes, then as far as I was concerned the door had been opened.
“It would have been difficult for them to put a block on it without contradicting what had already been done.”
==============================================================================================================
sorry for returning to the trademark/airdrie/club name issue but this is at the heart of the 5-way “new world”, the actual mechanics and details of memberships/league shares transfers etc which better people than me have outlined (Auldheid for one) were the means and the formalisation, but the folding on the name part was the catalyst for all that followed, make no mistake, once the name was conceded a new precedence was set and to change the name they needed only two, but crucially, both things – trademarks and SFA permission, after that it was all just paperwork and press releases.
easyJambo says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:01 pm
———————
I guess it’s a measured way of saying that Mr King is a glib and ………. etc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Like Green and the Dallas Cowboys episode STV ask for some clear answers on the timing of events and the response in the presser just doesn’t tie in with the way it all played out as reported elsewhere re team building and where Scott Allen fitted into it all.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1328431-hibs-made-initial-approach-to-rangers-over-scott-allan-dave-king-claims/
Season ends 31 May
Warburton not appointed until 15 June
Wilson & Kiernan sign 22 June
Fotheringham signs 3 July
Halliday signs 18 July
Travernier and Waghorn sign 20th July
Holt signs 22 July
1st Scott Allen bid reported as rejected on 22 July
2nd Scott Allen bid reported as rejected on 23 July
3rd Scott Allen bid reported as rejected on 4 August
13 August Oduwa and Ball join on Loan
24 August Zelalem joins on loan
wottpi says: September 10, 2015 at 4:32 pm
You heard it here first.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34212152
Meanwhile, King indicated there’s no need for further investment from shareholders this season unless it is to bolster the playing squad.
“At the moment we are well funded through to the end of the season, we are ahead of where we thought we might be.”
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Much of the investment information in the BBC article is contradicted by his video interview with STV (11 minutes).
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1328466-dave-king-on-rangers-investment-needs-transfer-strategy-and-targets/
Further investment will be required this season.
It is probably worth bookmarking the link for future reference.
OnandOnandOnand says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 3:41 pm
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Good to see Onandon posting here . A name from back in the day on RTC .A true supporter of his/her club and much respected. Alongside Pauly Walnuts Onandon posts were insightful and honest and among the posts I most looked for.
ernie says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Quote of the week from Stubbs on Honest dave’s version of the Allen transfer (the version trashed by Hibs) : “I find the timing of it all a bit strange.”
Mebbes a few folk inside fitba have a clue after all!
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If King had today announced babies are delivered by Storks some of the assembled media would take his statement somewhere else for a quote rather than questioning it. People in positions of power at Ibrox really are in an incredibly privileged position where the media defer to them no matter their track record, or indeed their criminal record. There are many successful people who hold power in Scottish football clubs, with excellent track records and no criminal records either. Yet they are not deferred to by the media in any way at all.
A horrible state of affairs, but it’s where we are.