Imagine you are one of those people who have a nice big mahogany desk, with a gloss finish set in a big corner suite office which comes complete with a picture window, a break out area, a couch to lie down on in moments of stress, a quietly playing stereo sound system, fridge, plush carpet and loads of wee executive toy like things of your choosing.
Imagine, just for a moment, that outside your office you have the executive German car that is almost compulsory when you work in such an office. Added to that, you also have the benefit of a large six figure salary, a pension scheme, substantial holidays, a bonus scheme which nicely enhances your already excellent salary, fantastic perks and trips abroad as part of your job, and that you fill a position which leads to invitations to the most fantastic events, do’s, and sporting occasions imaginable.
Imagine the respect you must command from your peers, your family and friends.
Imagine the awe that you must be held in at dinner parties and social events when you are introduced to strangers for the first time– strangers who will have heard your name, and know of your position in society.
Imagine the personal and professional respect you must command from others in your field — or any other field for that matter — when you go to conferences and meetings in foreign cities and with foreign counterparts.
Imagine the envy that many others sometimes feel for someone who has succeeded in business and society to this extent.
Then imagine that the big office described above is at Hampden?
What a bummer!!
Now, I mention all of this because if you were one of the big cheeses at at Hampden, I wonder just what you do with yourself when the large rosewood door of your office closes behind you when you get in there each morning?
Maybe you make a coffee? Read the papers? Check the mail? Go to a meeting about the latest in 3G or is it 4G pitches being installed in a ground or two in the Shetlands?
However, no matter what you do and who you speak to THAT file is always there— always at the corner of your desk, neatly up there at the top left hand corner just beyond the desk top golf set and above the Newton’s cradle with the balls that spell your name or whatever.
That file– the one that relates to the finances, compliance, directors details and ownership of Rangers Football Club.
At least that is what the top of the file says. Though to be fair it is a continuation file… continuing from the one that was opened two months ago and is fit to burst already with reports, memo’s and letters- which in turn was a continuation of the one before that and the one before that and the one before that and on and on.
Maybe that is not the correct name for the club?
Maybe that is something that can be clarified at the next meeting with the Directors and CEO of the club— whoever they might be at that time?
No matter where you go in the room, you can see that file from every position. There is just no getting away from it.
Who owns The Rangers?
There are all sorts of reports, share prospectuses, memos, deeds, documents, contracts, letters, e-mails all asking the same thing. And there you are— none the wiser.
Please clarify this, please clarify that, are there any signed but unrecorded documents, or contracts?
Are the Companies House records accurate? is the Land register accurate?
At the end of the day you just lie on the couch, place a cold cloth over your head and hope it will all go away.
Then the accounts come out. Oh the figures are shocking and they confirm that most of the people you negotiated with to get their team playing football somewhere after the collapse and liquidation of RFC PLC have exited stage left with huge severance cheques.
They now live in France, or Singapore or the Cayman Islands and you can bet they will never darken a door in Mount Florida on a wet February morning ever again.
But that is not the worst of it — the bleeding internet is full of leaks— documents, letters, e-mails, contracts, company forms and all sorts.
You wouldn’t mind if the documents leaked were ones that you had seen before, but in the main they are things that you have never seen and never had disclosed.Every day someone calls and asks ” Have you seen the latest?” and of course you haven’t so you stand there feeling like a complete chookie!!!
Every day you call the compliance and monitoring guys:
” Eh have you seen this? Have you been notified that he is a director?”
” No boss – never seen that? Never knew it existed?”
” So who owns the company if that is correct?”
” Eh Dunno boss — not sure of anything over there any more!”
“Ok have you checked the titles with the lawyers?”
” yes but the title as registered looks ok, but there is no guarantee that it hasn’t been sold to someone else and they have not registered their title for the moment!”
” Have you spoken to the lawyers? Have you asked for clarification?”
” yes Boss — the Lawyers don’t really answer our questions– well at least not fully!”
” What about these accounts – there are 57 pages there – what do they tell us?”
” Well they tell us that the figures are not good, boss, but not immediately critical.”
” Are they paying their taxes?”
” Appear to be boss– but we can’t be sure.can we? We were told they were paying their taxes before and … well you know the rest.”
” Ok, but Pinsent masons rule out the Whyte guy being involved?”
” Ah well not really – they don’t go into the company he says he owns – they sort of ignore that part!”
” But they carried out an independent investigation, surely?”
” True boss, but the independent investigation was only into what the non independent guys wanted investigating Boss, and they appear to have finished their report without speaking to all the witnesses.”
” Ok but the accounts – what do the accounts say about Whyte being the real owner — I mean they are from Deloittes for God sake – they must make the position clear?”
” Well we have had a look at them boss and in that regard the accounts are King Kenny!”
” King Kenny?”
” Aye King Kenny Boss – with regard to Whyte’s claim they say ” maybes aye– maybes naw” and they leave it at that”
” Jesus, well have you written to the Directors?”
” Aye – half the letters have come back marked “Gone away”.Boss”
” Do you know who the shareholders are?”
” Naw Boss”
“Do they have a bank account and a bank reference ?”
” Naw Boss”
” Who’s coming to the next meeting from their side?”
” Dunno Boss”
” Is there anything you can tell me that lets me close this file and get it off my desk for good?”
” Naw boss”
” Well who did we grant membership to last year?”
” The first time or the second time Boss?”
” What do you mean – first time or second time?”
” We started out granting membership to one company and then changed it to another”
” Two companies – owned by the same people?”
” Dunno Boss– but they sounded the same.”
” And which one got a licence?”
” Dunno boss”
” What?”
“Was the licence not granted by Mr Longmuir boss? And then ratified by us as a formality?”
” Why are you asking me, you are the compliance guys?”
” Aye but we were told it would all be ok by … well by someone ….. and by Mr Longmuir”
” When did he tell you that?”
” Told us one day at Ibrox Boss – I think it was at half time?”
” Half Time?”
” Aye – though it might have been full time boss ….. free bevvy and sandwiches so can’t quite remember”.
” Well who has the paperwork?”
” Lost boss”
” Lost?”
” Yes Boss – it was meant to come up from the SFL but never appeared. Turns out that the SFL was run as an unincorporated body and none of its records etc, are intact or have ever been audited …… Boss. Mr Ballantyne might have them in his garage Boss! ……… Boss? ….. are you still there? Boss?”
The man in the corner suite leaves the phone dangling, goes to his fridge for a cold drink and switches on the executive plasma hanging on the wall by way of the remote control on his desk.
The screen beams into life and an advert for the brand of soft drink that he is holding fills the wall. The very same brand of soft drink that has just been announced as the official soft drink to partner Scottish Football.
The executive, looks at his drinks can, looks at the file on the corner of the desk, looks at the abandoned phone and finally looks at the screen just as the speakers spell out clearly ………….. the benefits of coming from a long line of Fannies.
This is Scottish Football Administration in the 21st Century.
As previous poster stated, at least 1 clun in Scotland(Motherwell) have fan representation on the board, yet they have, as far as we aware never raised any issue with the SFA and the UEFA license.
Indeed as far as we are aware no club other than Celtic have raised any issues re this. What we don’t know is what Celtic asked of the SFA or UEFA for that matter. How vigorously did they persue this issue? We will probably never know.
The one thing we probably do know though is that not one single other group of fans or their board of directors or officials did anything. That to me tells me everything I need to know about football in this country.
Exiled Celt says: (707)
October 15, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Big Pink
…. Never said Celtic warned of civil unrest – but the violence has been real – you said that the violence against NL could be separated from the others – I don’t see why unless JT’s view that he brought it on himself is the reason.
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EC
You are being deliberately provocative and putting words into my mouth.
That is neither the text nor the sense of what I said. What I did say was that I didn’t accept the NL situation as evidence of widespread TRFC terror. I in no way minimised the seriousness of what happened to NL – and I certainly didn’t imply that he brought it on himself.
Or are you just conjecturing again?
And just like that a little nugget comes in to show how other countries can regulate their clubs properly……
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24534058
Austrian Bundesliga: Admira Wacker suffer points deduction
Austrian Bundesliga side Admira Wacker have had eight points deducted for breaching licensing regulations.
The decision leaves bottom side Admira, already on to their third coach of the season, with no points from 11 games.
The club said they were “fully unprepared for the decision” and will appeal.
They blamed it on a dispute over where they should be paying their local taxes.
Admira appointed former Austria forward Toni Polster, the country’s record scorer at international level, as coach before the start of the season but fired him after three games.
Polster was followed by his assistant Oliver Lederer, who was in charge for a month but had to step aside because he lacked an official coaching licence. He was officially replaced in September by Walter Knaller, although the club says that the pair are joint coaches
Big Pink – not putting words in your mouth (or post) – was way I read it – apologies for reading it the wrong way
Edited to add
Am not being deliberately provocative – that too is your conjecture 🙂
EC
Thank you. Apology accepted.
TSFM, a week or so back you proclaimed the success of posters on here in quickly sussing out, isolating and generally routing those posters with blog destabilisation as their goal. In my opinion Slimshady is in the forefront of those forensic posters. As far as I know only perennial offendees could be fazed by his contributions.
Debate needs to be robust. Of course it’s your baw, but could you yourself or at least some of your moderators, be getting a little bit precious? 😉
[TSFM – Smiley noted, and perhaps from time to time the mods can be a bit precious, but not in this case. Argument can be as robust as it you like. Insult is the intellectual enemy of debate.]
As I said earlier, one of my main concerns with the Celtic AGM resolution is the effect it would have in “stirring up those already convinced we’re driven by bias & bitterness”. – Well, here’s a taster of things to come from our favourite blogger with a blue probocsis – Bull McMurdo http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog/
“the Celtic AGM highlights the level of hatred and bigotry towards Scotland’s biggest and most successful club.With such prejudice and vitriol aimed at Rangers, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see how the Ibrox club can ever co-exist pecefully with the haters in Scottish football”
How he’s managed to travel from the overly dry & cautious wording of the resolution itself to “hatred and bigotry” and “prejudice and vitriol” somehow brings the words pot, kettle,stones & glasshouses springing to mind, and suggests that co-existing pecefully (sic) is the furthest thing from his woolly mind. However, we can certainly expect more of the same – toned down slightly and translated for general consumption into Goebblesdegook – from the MSM.
TheLunaticFringe says: (13)
October 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm
As I said earlier, one of my main concerns with the Celtic AGM resolution is that the effect it would have in “stirring up those already convinced we’re driven by bias & bitterness”. – Well, here’s a taster of things to come from our favourite blogger with a blue probocis – Bull McMurdo http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog/
“the Celtic AGM highlights the level of hatred and bigotry towards Scotland’s biggest and most successful club.With such prejudice and vitriol aimed at Rangers, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see how the Ibrox club can ever co-exist pecefully with the haters in Scottish football”
How he’s managed to travel from the overly dry & cautious wording of the resolution itself to “hatred and bigotry” and “prejudice and vitriol” somehow brings the words pot, kettle,stones & glasshouses springing to mind, and suggests that co-existing pecefully (sic) is the furthest thing from his woolly mind. However, we can certainly expect more of the same – toned down slightly and translated for general consumption into Goebblesdegook – from the MSM.
_______________________________________________________________________________
A good spot and a point well made.
Two genuine questions not to be interpreted as criticism of your point:
1. Do you think that McMurdo’s words are an implicit and credible threat of violence?
2. Are you suggesting that the resolution should be withdrawn as a result?
TheLunaticFringe says: (13)
October 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm
Aye, it is Mr McMurdo’s usual stock in trade. However, you deal with such idiocy by standing up to it, not by being cowed into silence.
Incidentally, the absurdity of Mr McMurdo arguing that the solution is to decamp to the economic basket case that is the EPL, or to some as yet mythical European Super League, while at the same time many Celtic types argue for the same solution, for the same reasons, is not lost on me.
Big Pink says:
“A good spot and a point well made.
Two genuine questions not to be interpreted as criticism of your point:
1. Do you think that McMurdo’s words are an implicit and credible threat of violence?
2. Are you suggesting that the resolution should be withdrawn as a result?”
_____________________________________________________________________________________
1. No.
2. No, but – see me earlier post on the subject. IMO Celtic fans will get nowhere going it alone. We need a petition supported by the rest of Scottish Football & (for want of a better word) increased badgering of MPs for a Public Inquiry. I wonder if we can persuade the odd blue pimple to sign up? – A direct quote from a post on McMurdoland from Oct 2012 , back when it suited his agenda…-
“Hi Bill,
I read with interest your latest blog. The part that stood out for me was asking Rangers supporters to contact their MP and MSP to initiate a discussion towards an enquiry asking about the suitability of the people who currently run the SFA and SPL. I have contacted my MP who is asking questions of the SFA, SPL and SFL. My MSP on the other hand ran a mile from my point of view. Any advice or direction on this would be most welcome. Something to kick start this process and some insight into how this can be forced by the will of the voter would be interesting to read”
Power to the Peepil??
On the basis I understand the CFC resolution doesn’t mention sevco thanks mcmurdo for proving that Scotland’s biggest ya de ya must feel it refers to them? Wonder why? Clue – I’m not a tic man and I’m not obsessed .
My take fwiw, this will be messy, as celtic’s first foray into the argument was always going to be, but it has to be done. A little disappointed that our regular forensics aren’t focussing in on LNS again. I don’t see why Celtic’s concerns two years earlier didn’t render his findings immediately invalid in 2013?
willmacufree says: (213)
October 15, 2013 at 4:51 pm
1 2 Rate This
TSFM, a week or so back you proclaimed the success of posters on here in quickly sussing out, isolating and generally routing those posters with blog destabilisation as their goal. In my opinion Slimshady is in the forefront of those forensic posters. As far as I know only perennial offendees could be fazed by his contributions.
Debate needs to be robust. Of course it’s your baw, but could you yourself or at least some of your moderators, be getting a little bit precious? 😉
[TSFM – Smiley noted, and perhaps from time to time the mods can be a bit precious, but not in this case. Argument can be as robust as it you like. Insult is the intellectual enemy of debate.]
=======================================
It’s not TSFM’s baw, The baw belongs to all of us, TSFM merely makes sure the ball has enough air in it to allow the game to take place – or at least that’s the way I believe it should be. Happy to be corrected it that’s not the case.
Maybe not too old EC. Ironside is back http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2787278/?ref_=nv_sr_1
TSFM
The point will become clear after 15 November. If the shareholders of Celtic do not support the motion put forward, and I as one will not be supporting it, I await the acceptance of those on here such as Auldheid that the matter has been democratically considered and voted upon and is at an end. If they do not accept that then they are no better than the current board of RIFC who believe they are above the law.
No one as yet has put forward one iota of evidence to show any wrongdoing or malfeasance by the Celtic board or any one of its directors. Until such evidence is forthcoming, the shareholders cannot be expected to vote based on hearsay or supposition. The directors face personal liability and recourse to the courts if they fail to discharge their duties in accordance with the Companies Act.
Again I invite anyone with evidence to bring it forward and present it for consideration. I made the same invitation last year between March and July on RTC when all and sundry were assuring us that Celtic were tacitly working for the fast tracking of Sevco into the SPL. No one came forward, unsurprising because there was no evidence to support such a fantastical notion. Events proved that at the time.
Today we have comments such as “I know Celtic were complicit …” dotted all over the place. Well if you know that, how do you know it and and where is your evidence to support your knowledge?
If you think that asking these sort of questions TSFM is lowering the tone of this site, then you and I disagree on how best this site can maintain its credibility, one of your stated aims.
Equally though Eddie, no other club was denied a CL place because of the awarding of the UEFA licence to RFC in 2011.
[Note that my team is not and has never been in the SPL (or proper European competition)]
scottc says: (312)
October 15, 2013 at 5:46 pm
eddie rice says: (31)
October 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm
…
The one thing we probably do know though is that not one single other group of fans or their board of directors or officials did anything. That to me tells me everything I need to know about football in this country.
Equally though Eddie, no other club was denied a CL place because of the awarding of the UEFA licence to RFC in 2011.
[Note that my team is not and has never been in the SPL (or proper European competition)]
**********
However there would have been a shift for other clubs in Europa League, so not just about CL
Hearts would have played in play off round rather than 3rd qualifying round
Dundee Utd would have played in 3rd qualifying round rather than 2nd qualifying round
Kilmarnock would have played in 2nd qualifying round rather than…………….not at all…………..
scottc says: (312)
October 15, 2013 at 5:37 pm
1 0 i Rate This
Quantcast
Exiled Celt says: (709)
October 15, 2013 at 4:09 pm
TSFM – Not saying its only a Rangers blog – however that is the biggest show in town at the moment due to them being in court more than Ironside ever was (maybe a bit too old a reference for some!)
Maybe not too old EC. Ironside is back http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2787278/?ref_=nv_sr_1
************
Ah but if there is no Raymond Burr, then its not Ironside…………..am sure the new bloke would never think about trying to claim the history of Raymond Burr either 🙂
TSFM
I understand where you are coming from. My point though is that those condemning the board, in the main, are not debating what celtic could have done differently. I wanted to show that the issue was complex and filled with risk for Celtic, no matter what path was chosen .
tomtom says: (474)
October 15, 2013 at 5:36 pm
It’s not TSFM’s baw, The baw belongs to all of us, TSFM merely makes sure the ball has enough air in it to allow the game to take place – or at least that’s the way I believe it should be. Happy to be corrected it that’s not the case.
————
Of course you’re dead on. Just that I sometimes feel the baw is a wee bit over-inflated. Do you remember we used to do it all the time when we were kids? The ball would be very light, and would soon go out of shape. No comparisons intended to the current situation. 😆
Slim
Shareholder meetings are democratic, in the same way that TUC conferences are democratic, the big block votes usually win….
In depth analysis and suitability of D King fitting in quite nicely at Govan. From 200%
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/673713136?-11344:801
If the 12 chairmen were in a room watching a Celtic v Govan club final how many do you think would be supporting Celtic?
jw hardin says: (7)
October 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm
If the 12 chairmen were in a room watching a Celtic v Govan club final how many do you think would be supporting Celtic?
——
Because, of course, everyone really supports either Rangers or Celtic along with their diddy team, or at least dislikes one less than the other?
jw – e.g. if I’m watching Rangers v Celtic for whatever reason, I’m quite happy to be entertained and faintly amused by the generally thuggish behaviour as they kick lumps out of each other, and also to observe the anthropological marvel that is/was an Old Firm crowd.
Angus1983 says: (1164)
October 15, 2013 at 6:56 pm
jw hardin says: (7October 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm
If the 12 chairmen were in a room watching a Celtic v Govan club final how many do you think would be supporting Celtic?
——
Because, of course, everyone really supports either Rangers or Celtic along with their diddy team, or at least dislikes one less than the other?
jw – e.g. if I’m watching Rangers v Celtic for whatever reason, I’m quite happy to be entertained and faintly amused by the generally thuggish behaviour as they kick lumps out of each other, and also to observe the anthropological marvel that is/was an Old Firm crowd.
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Angus,
Did you ever see anything that might be deemed good either in the football, or anthropologically?
jw hardin says: (7)
October 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm
2 2 Rate This
If the 12 chairmen were in a room watching a Celtic v Govan club final how many do you think would be supporting Celtic?
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God you really are paranoid.
What an unbelievable statement.
slimshady61 says: (270)
October 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm
62 28 Rate This
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Sir Bartin was here recently too. He slagged off the blog as well, promoted a pet distraction by the name of Goldstein, carried on the TSFM insults via twitter, then disappeared again. Don’t see the point of it myself. But if turning up at random for a quick moan and put down floats yer boat … 🙄
The Celtic resolution will no doubt be voted down, but does it not also call for explicit reasons to be aired as to the majority shareholders reticence? I would be saddened if …`acting in Celtics`s best interest` was once again the only comment the board it felt necessary to make.
Neil Lennon was far from the only person threatened.
If I remember correctly at least one QC had policemen driving past his house every 20 minutes because of what was perceived as a real threat. There were certainly other examples.
Neil Lennon was the figure who was most prominently threatened and attacked. However there were others, people only doing their jobs, and in some instances with the promise of anonymity which every senior club in Scotland had agree to.
If Celtic, or other clubs, took advice from their own security staff and/or the Police it would have been foolhardy not to have followed it. The fact that they had to do it at all is one of the worst parts of this whole disgraceful episode.
@ Tif Finn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZBT8CjbjhY
Not just Neil Lennon…
You can say that again
PhilMacGiollaBhain
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Exactly.
Special Branch and anti terrorism Police briefing on mail handling etc.
Over 30 journalist alone taking advice on being threatened.
The “broadcast” about Angela Haggerty is surely an offense on it’s own, before anyone even acted.
It really puts things in perspective. There really is a culture of threats and intimidation against anyone who dares even tell the truth.
As you say, not just Neil Lennon and not by a long way.
willmac – No offence whatsoever intended, but I honestly can’t remember much about Old Firm football. Couldn’t name a single goal that may be called memorable by either set of fans, for example. No idea who scored in Lisbon in 1967 or Barcelona in 1972 (was it Barcelona? Was it 1972 or 1973?).
However, there was usually some entertainment to be had watching and listening to a gathering of gentlemen getting pointlessly worked up and furious about another set of gentlemen’s views on cult practices, and historical events that had nothing to do with Scotland – the country in which they were all currently standing.
Most of the rest of us watched OF games for the rabid crowd, and the reasonable chance of getting to see numpties kick hell out of each other either on or off the pitch. Car crash TV.
As for anthropology, the Glasgow divide and what on earth it has to do with fitba is a not uncommon subject for academic study, as a bit of Googling will show.
My apologies – I don’t mean to sidetrack. Just filling in time and avoiding fitba scores til the highlights come on later … 🙂
The studio anchorman has got be on something ,a nice navy type suite but at the end of the game check out his footwear,McCann is not any better and the cardigan has prob got slippers on.
Slimshady
Re evidence. Get my e mail via Contact and I’ll fill yer boots.
In meantime read Crystal Myth on On Fields of Green to see the picture the evidence paints.
Edit. Evidence is of wrongdoing by Rangers and SFA not Celtic Board.
There is no evidence of wrong doing there and my aim was never to attack Celtic and I would like to see evidence of where I have.
My aim is to expose collusion between SFA and Rangers and there is plenty of evidence to support that.
FIFA says: (389)
October 15, 2013 at 9:07 pm
1 0 Rate This
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By way of a quick vacuous comment: the pin-striped suit on WS looks very spivish 😀
Angus1983 says: (1165)
October 15, 2013 at 8:52 pm
willmac – No offence whatsoever intended, but I honestly can’t remember much about Old Firm football. Couldn’t name a single goal that may be called memorable by either set of fans, for example. No idea who scored in Lisbon in 1967 or Barcelona in 1972 (was it Barcelona? Was it 1972 or 1973?).
However, there was usually some entertainment to be had watching and listening to a gathering of gentlemen getting pointlessly worked up and furious about another set of gentlemen’s views on cult practices, and historical events that had nothing to do with Scotland – the country in which they were all currently standing.
Most of the rest of us watched OF games for the rabid crowd, and the reasonable chance of getting to see numpties kick hell out of each other either on or off the pitch. Car crash TV.
As for anthropology, the Glasgow divide and what on earth it has to do with fitba is a not uncommon subject for academic study, as a bit of Googling will show.
My apologies – I don’t mean to sidetrack. Just filling in time and avoiding fitba scores til the highlights come on later …
—————–
Angus,
And absolutely none taken. I just wondered whether an afficionado like yourself might see more than the various circus acts on display. Certainly there were plenty of great displays – Billy McPhail 1957 LC Final, Lubomir Moravczic and so on and so on. (My memories are coloured of course.) I’m actually shocked though that you remember nothing about the ’67 EC Final. I always thought that was a red letter day for fitba’ in my country: obviously not, or maybe you were too young?
In your opinion will the fans of your club, or any others get together to force a crux at Mount Florida, as in past dealings with SPL and SFL? Or as I suspect are CFC out on their own?
Slimshady
I am astonished of forehead that you could read the resolution as an attack on Celtic.
It might make life uncomfortable for them but both Celtic and SFA have had ample opportunity to demonstrate that the licencing issue was properly dealt with by supplying dates and an explanation to justify their stance that the wee tax bill had not crystallised at time of granting or was not an overdue payable subsequently.
I never expected Celtic to say anything for they were not involved but I waited patiently for the SFA to provide evidence but all we got was platitudes empty reassurances and misleading statements.
Then the evidence arrived and what it shows is described in The Crystal Myth article.
To protect Celtic from the accusations some have made I have been very circumspect in handling the material and the last thing I want is to damage the club.
In a years time the evidence will become as public as CW’s lack of dosh , but by then my hope is that Celtic will have put what the evidence suggests to good use.
Get in touch
Just heard PM on last night BBC Sportsound
My old Ma had a saying “I would not trust him as far as I could throw him” .
All I can say is “how very apt”
Just by the by, I’m not good on face-recognition, but while I was listening to the game today’s ‘Scotsman’ was on the kitchen table in front of me.
The wee picture up on the top right hand side above the masthead looked quite like the guy that was in front of me in the court-room yesterday.
I took the guy to be one of the two solicitors sitting behind counsel for the Petitioners., and I thought it odd that he was wearing a very light coloured grey suit instead of the usual lawyer-like black.
But now I think it might have been P. Murray himself, judging by that picture.
That’s about as near as I’ll get to a seat on the Board at RIFCplc!
And was that not a good performance tonight? I think even Willie Miller was smiling.
A very strange day on TSFM.
john clarke says: (1248)
October 15, 2013 at 10:05 pm
But now I think it might have been P. Murray himself, judging by that picture.
That’s about as near as I’ll get to a seat on the Board at RIFCplc!
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You appear to be far too decent, honest, and determined to do the right thing to even be mentioned in the same breath as that shower of scallywags.
“If you go to Norway, you can get quite drunk for two thousand pounds,” chuckles Chick on the radio.
Suddenly his definition of a “good night out” starts to make sense.
So, who’s providing the court updates for Imrans day in court tomorrow?
It would have been John. Cara Sulieman tweeted that he was indeed there
Court watch – Just further away= OT But clock the amounts. for Brum.
By Associated Press, Updated: Tuesday, October 15, 1:36 PM
HONG KONG — The Hong Kong businessman who owns Birmingham City football club testified at his money laundering trial Tuesday for the first time and described how he amassed his fortune, starting with a single hairdressing salon.
Carson Yeung outlined how in the 1990s he built a chain of upmarket salons and styled hair for celebrities, earning a total of $20 million Hong Kong dollars ($2.6 million) during his hairdressing career.
He dabbled in real estate and bought a Chinese hotel before focusing on stock trading. He told court that by 2000, he was worth 80-100 million Hong Kong dollars ($10-$13 million).
Yeung is charged with five counts of money laundering involving more than HK$720 million deposited in five bank accounts from January 2001 to December 2007. Prosecutors have said the money was “criminal proceeds.”
The charges are unrelated to the football team, which Yeung bought in 2009 for 81.5 million pounds (then $130 million) following a protracted takeover battle.
Prosecutors have alleged that vast sums of money flowed through Yeung’s accounts even though records show he earned a meager income during that period.
In May, prosecutors told the court that the money involved was hundreds of times more than the combined income of HK$2.2 million ($278,000) reported for 1999-2006 by Yeung and his father, who ran a vegetable stall and had some of the bank accounts in his name.
Defense lawyer Graham Harris questioned Yeung about his various ventures, part of an effort to portray him as a legitimately successful businessman.
Yeung, 53, told court he apprenticed at salons in Hong Kong, Paris and London, earning about HK$10,000 ($1,230) a month. He set up his own salon in 1989 and added four more throughout the early 1990s, becoming a “very famous” hairdresser whose services were sought after by Hong Kong movie stars.
He and his father bought a hotel in Dongguan, mainland China, which earned them a small income. They later sold it for a small profit. Yeung earned HK$7-$8 million selling property in Thailand and Malaysia to Hong Kong residents eager to leave the then-British colony ahead of its pending handover to China in 1997.
He also earned HK$15 million selling upscale villas in a Hong Kong housing development.
Yeung said he then focused on stock trading, weathering a market crash in 1998 that sent his portfolio down 70 percent. He used cash and also borrowed money to invest in stocks, with one brokerage giving him a credit limit of HK$80 million.
Prosecutor John Reading has previously told the court that his aim is to establish the source of the money.
Birmingham won the 2011 League Cup, ending 48 years without a major trophy, but despite the victory was relegated from the Premier League the same year.
Before his takeover of Birmingham, Yeung’s only experience with professional football consisted of a stint as chairman of Hong Kong Rangers Football Club from 2005-06.
scottc says: (313)
October 15, 2013 at 10:31 pm
—-
Thank you, scottc.
So that was Cara Sulieman! Very pleasant and helpful young woman.
Squiggle says: (99)
October 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm
4 0 Rate This
A very strange day on TSFM.
——–
Aye, it’s been a good day to watch the national team instead of counting TDs here. Although it probably disproves the theory that the blog is populated by sycophantic backslappers.
squiggle says: (99)
October 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm
‘.A very strange day on TSFM.’
——–
And actually a superb example of civilised disagreement and occasional gentle point scoring, with perhaps the odd we nerve getting touched.
I think it’s great that we can all get on here and say our bit, read what others say, adapt, modify, apologise, be indignant, be hurt even, have a laugh, miss regular posters if they don’t make an appearance, and, somehow, collectively know when we go too far adrift or when we are being practised upon .( I love that phrase).
I doubt if there is a blog anywhere in cyberspace that is the equal of it in those respects.
Seamus says: (2)
October 15, 2013 at 11:01 pm
‘Wasn’t interested in Scotland game..’
——–
I think many of us have been making the point that it is OUR game- not the preserve of a particular group or of a handful of ‘protectors’.
Let’s push for removal of the baddies democratically and for reform of the Administration, and we can enjoy our national game as being ours, collectively, and take pleasure in our national team doing well.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (985)
October 15, 2013 at 10:22 pm
‘…So, who’s providing the court updates for Imrans day in court tomorrow?’
———–
It’s so easy to forget that guy. I wonder if he’ll appear in person, or is he out of the country?
From someone with a slight sense of acumen on Rangers rumours ( the glimmer of light on the Pretendygers sites)
==================================
15 Oct 2013 17:30:27
Rangers are owned by the shareholders
Like any business, the balance sheet is king (pardon the pun)
At the beginning of a year the business has a trading forecast (see it as aggregate revenue potential) and they have forecast costs and they HOPE that when all is said and done (assuming no cash-flow shocks) they can derive a profit. always remember that even a cash flow blip can cause an “on paper plausibly profitable enterprise” to fold if they cannot “bridge” cash flow shocks on their way to making “profit”
As far as I can tell, the only viable Rangers assets (IE “liquid”) are the players themselves. Sell 5 players for £5m and bring down wages and replace with 5 players at a cost of £1m and pay them even lower wages; if this happens at a point where the revenue is basically fixed (IE January) then you can create “money” of course the risk is rotten players and falling revenues the next season if season ticket sales slip as a result. and therein lies the problem
What are we Bears prepared to watch? And how much are we prepared to pay? Half empty stadiums and a workmanlike (lets say un-dynamic) playing pool isn’t too good for sponsorship either. it is not rocket science
People who spend big bucks on football clubs CONTROL those clubs. if Mr King is to invest +£20m how does he control where these funds are invested and what is his return or is he keen to throw money away.
we need a Celtic – model of governance; when Fergus took on Celtic for peanuts he invested millions and then floated them and made his money from the flotation (doubled his money if I recall). that is what should have happened . and it happened this way because the previous “management” and the pretenders wanted too much of the cake.
more to go in this saga. I think boycotting would deliver the long term desired result. my opinion only
love rangers but not enjoying this
I chose to watch the England game tonight instead of my own.
That makes me want to scream.
There’s not a single governing body in world football that deserves our support.
They are all untouchable and unanswerable and they don’t even care that we all know it.
Squiggle says: (99)
October 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm
A very strange day on TSFM.
=========================================================
Your not joking Squiggle! Very strange!
I’ve been trying to catch up after a long days work, but have to admit I’ve skipped all of the debate around the CFC Board stuff. I don’t really understand what it’s all about (probably because I haven’t read it!)
What’s going on here guy’s? I hope we aren’t taking our eyes off the ball? Let’s concentrate on the main scene. SFA and the new League bosses, SPL, SPFL or whatever they call themselves these days?
They are the root of the problem, and let’s not forget it, eh?
I do have to agree however, and it never really struck me properly until tonight, that these bosses in charge of the SFA and SPFL are only there because OUR Clubs (pick yours out of 42) wanted them there. That actually does send out a different message!
They are actually there unanimously or on a majority. Either way, the majority want them to carry on!
I don’t know about you, but I’m suddenly depressed thinking about that?
Someone earlier alluded to, and I’ll put it in my own words, that due to the £££££’s that the new club apparently hauls around in a large sack to every away ground, we can’t do without them. We should be so grateful that everyone is rallying around from the SFA, SPFL, all our Clubs, our Parliament, our Judiciary, our MSM, etc to ensure that this mythical sack of Gold keeps journeying it’s way round Scotland, ensuring that Scottish Football can survive!
Lets face it, don’t they have our welfare at the heart of all this. They’re really doing us a favour?
Unfortunately, I stopped believing in Santa when I was 8 years old! It didn’t stop my Parents trying to pretend he was still real though in the few years after that (even although I knew he wasn’t!)
One thing I do know, 43 years after I stopped believing in Santa, is that I don’t like people in suits making the kind of of money they are getting at the moment from a game I’ve always loved. A game that came from Working Class beginnings over a Century ago for people to unwind and enjoy at a weekend. A game that has now been taken over by Suits eager to make a good living out of it without ever stepping onto a football park!
I never thought I’d say this, but I’m beginning to hate football in Scotland now.
p.s. Another thing. All week we’ve been primed in the Media about Scotlands game tonight. Was it shown Live on BBC or STV? No, it wasn’t. How can the population of Scotland get excited about it’s own National Team without subscribing to sky sports, ESPN or going down to the local pub on a weekday when you have work the next day? I can’t afford sky sports, so tried to listen to the game on Radio. Sounds like it was a good game for Scotland, but listening isn’t the same as watching it.
Note to SFA: If you want the majority of Scotland to get excited about Internationals, especially tournament qualifiers, at least let us watch them on old fashioned BBC or ITV ! National Teams should be on National TV, not pay per view! Take note you greedy git’s, no wonder young kids are not interested in football anymore!
As someone posted a link to Corsica’s recent blog on his letter to Celtic FC, I think it’s only fair we share this from a Sevco site.
https://soundcloud.com/blues_and_twos/greetin-gladiator
[TSFM – Smiley noted, and perhaps from time to time the mods can be a bit precious, but not in this case. Argument can be as robust as it you like. Insult is the intellectual enemy of debate.]
___________________________________________________________________________________
Could not disagree more.
From beginner primary schoolboys, through secondary school and on to university, insults and put downs are the meat and drink of debate.
It helps if it is funny, but even if it is not, if truthful it can punch home a point like nothing else.
Name calling without any point is not acceptable, but that’s a different story.
___________________________________________
[TSFM – Feel free to disagree, but that’s not how we conduct ourselves here. Feeding will have to take place elsewhere]
Finloch says: (194)
October 15, 2013 at 11:06 am
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jimlarkin says: (552)
October 15, 2013 at 10:30 am
… Celtic are complicit – and it is for financial reasons…
………………………………..
I totally agree with you but it is not fair to just blame Celtic.
You could substitute any premier club name for Celtic in your sentence and it would still be correct.
The whole league agreed unanimously to sell-out to the toxic promise of continued blue pound notes.
I guess it is not something that any of them are happy about now because of people like Auldheid.
I would make one further point to the representatives of clubs lurking on here to gauge the fans opinion barometer or even the plants playing a role as one of our community.
The Celtic fans are just the first to badger their board formally via their shareholding about integrity and fair play.
To people like me I am grateful that these fans/shareholders are showing us real leadership.
More leadership than any of the highly paid servants or the club chairmen.
And yes in our wee corrupt MSM driven goldfish bowl the Celtic board need this kind of discussion like a hole in the head and as such will probably do all they can to marginalise and defeat it.
But I predict that without a full and honest airing it will never go away and will come back again and again to Celtic and to 11 other complicit clubs.
Like the parallel pursuits of honesty in Lance Armstrong’s denied doping, and the pursuit of truth and justice about Hillsborough this will only reach closure when integrity prevails.
==================================
I am glad to see someone is “getting it”.
This was never an attack on the Celtic Board. It is unfortunate some Celtic supporters’ default position is anti Board and they will twist anything to align with their world view rather than treat each case on its merits. That is a problem that only history and better communications between club and support will eradicate and maybe even not then.
This is about using due process to get our message across. TSFM readers might remember an attempt last year to get supporters association’s/trusts of clubs to put a resolution of no confidence in the SFA to their club Boards.
Many clubs were contacted but only the CST and one (ICT?) and perhaps one other expressed an interest. The initiative fell because of lack of support and in the case of Celtic lack of bodies to push the initiative, although the CST were willing to help.
The CST were still willing to advise but this year both bodies and evidence of SFA/Rangers collusion appeared.
Whether this resolution is passed or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a mechanism for bringing some sort of accountability to football governance, which was always there, has been highlighted.
Sure the resolution has its faults but do not forget it is not the perfect result of an agreed system for how a resolution should be drawn up. Not something produced by say the CST with elected representatives with defined roles debating around a table and any issue being subject to a vote.
It is a product of the input of many Celtic supporters all with different views who do not know each other and with no voting system.
It is a friggen miracle it got to the stage it was signed up to and even with some of its failings, it will have an impact on future decision making at the SFA whether it is passed or not and if other trusts and associations follow the lead and with the benefit of proper constitutions who knows just how much accountability will be introduced in the future.
Auldheid at 12,14am. I wish to second your post as i couldn’t have said it as well as you. Some of the posts on here on the CFC agm topic are way over the top. When a subject that brings out both calm and furious responses is aired and is then debated even if that subject is defeated by democratic vote, things are never the same afterwords. When this is done and dusted the powers that be in SFA/SPFL will surely know that the stitch-ups of the last 2 years will not be tolerated in the future. That dam has been breached.
john clarke says: (1252)
October 15, 2013 at 12:00 pm
For someone who has, as you say, invested your life in a club, you are very ready to see it sacrifice itself as some kind of scapegoat while letting the real goats get away with murdering Scottish football.
———————————————–
We’ve been over this ground before. You believe the Board and I don’t.
————————————————-
We must be re-assured that whatever happens to the hopelessly mismanaged new club, now beset with internal problems and financial crisis, and possibly facing financial collapse, the SFA will not feel free to disregard the rules to allow unfit and improper persons to serve on its board, or extend any other ilicit favour to it.
————————————————-
Really. So who will that be? The guy shouting Roll Up! Roll up! Mind the bump in the carpet. Come on!
Funny day right enough. Our end game is apparently silently endure the ever increasing authoritative bias, social intolerance, threats and intimidation long enough, and we “might”work our ticket out of Scottish football, although I might need to change my everyday name to Kunta Kinte.
Didn’t brother Walfrid set something up years ago to help people like me?
I am not being critical of the club, I do not know how the board could have played their hand any better whilst avoiding more threats and intimidation, although that is a constant, I don’t think there is a long game, I don’t think this will turn all Bosnia, I’m with auld hied and the resolution and for transparency all over football. Going to lurk for a while as it’s going to be busy.
Auldheid,
I admire your tenacity and, on balance after some consideration, I think it is correct that you constructed the motion and put it forward in the AGM forum.
However, if the real target is the SFA and regime change at Hampden for the betterment of the Scottish game AND I had your forensic skills, communication expertise and stickability I would be focussing all my efforts in shining a light on the established links between the RFC Discounted Option Scheme, it’s accepted illegality and the hand of Campbell Ogilvy.
I know that you regard this as very important but surely it is the key piece of evidence that CO must keep a Rangers in the current form to deflect from his own culpability and resulting conflict which have dislocated and distorted the LNS judgement, the 5 way agreement and all resulting licensing. The evidence published on Mr Ogilvy’s involvement in the genesis of the unlawful DOS practices are the smoking gun which lead to the conclusion that he is not in anyway an innocent individual.
The SFA explanation of player registration (@S Bryson) is in my view an artifice to shield the SFA/Ogilvie from the only natural conclusion available. That is, that having been involved in the set up of DOS for RFC, CO knew from the outset of his time at the SFA that RFC were playing ineligible players.
Is there no way you can be persuaded to focus on DOS and develop a strategy to have the mechanics of DOS illustrated and its implications understood in the mainstream?
Have to say, whoever planted the Celtic story in the papers Monday has pulled the biggest rabbit… sorry, squirrel, out of the hat yet.
For what its worth all the SPL clubs stood by while the SFA/SPL ignored the rule book. I know privately some chairman were fuming, but nothing ever got said. They stood by, kept quiet and if I hadn’t of been for the fans they would have maintained status quo and the new club would now be in debt in the SPFL instead.
In my book, St.Johnstone included, all SPL clubs are culpable in the mess. Chapeau to the Celtic shareholders for at least trying to make the SFA held accountable and have UEFA investigate.
Now, can we get back to what we do best, ignore the squirrels which are becoming more and more common, and focus on the endgame? At some point one of the Spivs/SFA are going to mess up and give us a smoking gun – I would hate to think the bampots would miss it after 2 years of superb investigation and analysis because they were arguing about whether Celtic were responsible or not!
stevenanph
I heard Chic Young on radio saying
He knew when CW came to Ibrokes he KNEW he had something to hide
He knew he was a rouge
He was told a long, long time ago in this saga that Dave King would be play a BIG part in Ragers/Sevco 2012 and that when all went quiet Dave King would emerge .
IMO this all points to a concerted plan and the plan would have been run past the peepil on the 6th floor .
That is a smoking gun in my book .It may take years ,decades even but the truth will come out regarding this disgraceful episode in the history of our game .
fergusslayedtheblues says: (134)
October 16, 2013 at 7:11 am
=============================
It would just be better if Chick Young and his ilk admitted it’s not a good thing to welcome convicted tax evaders to Scottish football with open arms. Common decency drives a lot of people to that conclusion, but clearly Chick and is ilk are willing to accept anyone, given their desperation to get back (sic) to their ‘rightful place’.
Douglas Fraser@BBCDouglasF
#Rangers’ chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart. #rfc
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5288-chief-executive-steps-down?
Mr Mather – walks away from Sevco . . .
Rangers’ chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart
Craig Mather resigns as Rangers Chief Executive with ‘immediate effect’ http://bit.ly/172v7C5
What a feckin farce, did Yorkie tell him to go ? The AGM is going to be a stoater.
has Mr Mather had a personal visit ,we shold be told.
jimlarkin says: (553)
October 16, 2013 at 7:31 am
2 0 Rate This
Mr Mather – walks away from Sevco
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I have not seen so many people walk away from a club whose recent motto is we do not do walking away.
Aye Ready .
Aye Ready on your marks get set go.
Police file report on alleged sectarian singing by soldiers during Armed Forces Day celebrations at Ibrox http://bit.ly/18kz7f0
The Kitty has gone,and the Mice are away looking for more cheese.
“To meet the standards expected of an AIM company”
Now there’s a nugget and a half
So Mather invested £1m and now he is just going? Doesn’t add up.
With 900,000 shares and whatever salaries and bonuses he’s accrued, has he turned a profit? Enough for a modest chateau?
slimshady61 says: (270)
October 15, 2013 at 5:40 pm
45 25 Rate This
TSFM
The point will become clear after 15 November. If the shareholders of Celtic do not support the motion put forward, and I as one will not be supporting it, I await the acceptance of those on here such as Auldheid that the matter has been democratically considered and voted upon and is at an end. If they do not accept that then they are no better than the current board of RIFC who believe they are above the law.
No one as yet has put forward one iota of evidence to show any wrongdoing or malfeasance by the Celtic board or any one of its directors. Until such evidence is forthcoming, the shareholders cannot be expected to vote based on hearsay or supposition. The directors face personal liability and recourse to the courts if they fail to discharge their duties in accordance with the Companies Act.
Again I invite anyone with evidence to bring it forward and present it for consideration. I made the same invitation last year between March and July on RTC when all and sundry were assuring us that Celtic were tacitly working for the fast tracking of Sevco into the SPL. No one came forward, unsurprising because there was no evidence to support such a fantastical notion. Events proved that at the time.
Today we have comments such as “I know Celtic were complicit …” dotted all over the place. Well if you know that, how do you know it and and where is your evidence to support your knowledge?
If you think that asking these sort of questions TSFM is lowering the tone of this site, then you and I disagree on how best this site can maintain its credibility, one of your stated aims.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Celtic were complicit.
They sat on their hands and did nowt.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned…
Celtic ‘allowed’ the great switcheroo.
Proof…why did Celtic not challenge the ‘secret’ 5 way agreement?
Why did Celtic not challenge the remit of the LNS enquiry ?
Why did Celtic not challenge ‘bryson’s’ interpretation of the rules?
Why did Celtic not say anything about the Discount Option Scheme / dual contracts / shredding?
Are you perhaps involved with the Celtic board or perhaps their advisers?
A legal challenge to the muppets – who will continue to throw cash at Celtic no matter what
. . . Because they can’t see the wood for the trees !?
Go to phil macG’s site. . .he has evidence to put forward.
If you see an unlawful act being committed and you neither challenge the offender or report the offender
. . .are you complicit ?
Celtic sat and watched and said nothing
Mather gone.
As discussed yesterday, incompetent or just part of the plan to exit stage left ASAP.
What odds Stockbridge lasting the day.
Can a AIM Plc operate with so few execs and non execs?
Should trading not be suspended until the Easdales make their move to take the reigns?
So, the world record, incredible shrinking Board saga continues.
I trust that when they come to making any nominations prior to the AGM they execute those in a timely fashion and with full validation.
Who will replace CM? One fitting name immediately comes to mind. Bernie Madoff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
He appears to have much of the experience needed for the role – certainly filling in any blanks left by current Board members or prospective Chairmen.
Clearly at some point he was indeed a billionaire though perhaps this wasn’t all with his own money. Perhaps some parallels there too – and he reportedly described his business dealings as “one big lie”.
No problem with any fit and proper person test then.
He is also, helpfully, largely immune to any threats from the Bears due to his current accommodation arrangements and can surely Skype his Board attendances in. Again we have seen others attend by phone or not at all when the sh*t and fan were about to coincide.
Perhaps also by the time he is available to attend in person, circa 2159, he may have a penitent and economically viable Sevco #2158 to run.
Of course there is also Charles Green, aye ready to gallop to the rescue on any one of his 40 chargers!
Scottish Football needs to see BDO start taking some action.
Edit – wee typo ‘we’ replaced by ‘he’. (‘..he may have a penitent..’)