A Guest Blog by Auldheid for TSFM
Honesty requires both transparency and accountability. In pursuit of honest, transparent and accountable governance of Scottish football, and only that objective, the following letter, with attachments, has been sent to SPFL lawyers, CEO and SPFL Board Members.
An honest game free from deception is what football supporters of all clubs want. It is the action the letter and attachments prompt that will tell us if there is any intention of providing it.
It is a response on behalf of readers here on TSFM, but the sentiment which underpins it is almost universally held amongst fans of all clubs. Importantly it is a response directly to all clubs, especially those with a SPFL Board member, that will make the clubs and the football authorities aware just how seriously supporters take the restoration of trust in an honest game, honestly governed.
The annexes to the letter contain information which may be published at a later date. We thought it appropriate to first await any response from any of the recipients.
Please also draw this to the attention of friends who are not internet using supporters and love their football and their club.
Auldheid
__________________________________________________________________
Harper MacLeod
The Ca’d’oro
45 Gordon Street
Glasgow
G1 3PE
19 Feb 2014
Copy sent to SPFL CEO and Board Members *
Dear Mr McKenzie
We the contributors to The Scottish Football Monitoring web site write to you in your capacity as the legal adviser employed by Harper MacLeod to assist the Scottish Premier League (now the Scottish Professional Football League) to gather evidence and investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
We note from the then SPL announcement that set up an enquiry that the initial date range to be covered was from the inception of the SPL in July 1998, but that was changed to 23 November 2000 because, according to our understanding, that is the date of the first side letter supplied by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps. It is also our understanding that the SPL asked for all documentation relating to side letters as well as the letters themselves.
It is a matter of public record that Rangers Administrators failed to supply the SPL all relevant documentation. Indeed the seriousness of not complying with SPL requests was the subject of an admonition of Rangers/Duff and Phelps from Lord Nimmo Smith under Issue 4 of his Commission.
Quite how serious that failure to comply or concealment was in terms of misleading the Commission and so Lord Nimmo Smith can now be assessed from the information contained at Annexes 1 to 10 attached.
We think that as legal advisers to the SPL (now the SPFL) you have a responsibility to make them aware that their Commission was misled by the concealment of documents starting on 3 September 1999, and signed by current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, whose silence on the ebt matters referred to in the attached annexes* is questionable at the very least.
This letter but not attachments is being posted on The Scottish Football Monitor web site as this is matter for all of Scottish football and support for the issue being pursued to establish the truth can be gauged by responses from supporters from all Scottish clubs once the letter has been published there.
A copy of this letter with Annexes has also been sent to the SPFL CEO and members of the SPFL Board.
Acknowledgement of receipt and reply can be sent by e mail to:
(Address supplied)
Yours in sport
On behalf of The Scottish Football Monitor contributors and readers. http://www.tsfm.org.uk/
Addressees copied in
Neil Doncaster CEO
The Scottish Professional Football League
Hampden Park
Glasgow G42 9DE
Eric Riley (Celtic),
The Celtic Football Club
Celtic Park
Glasgow G40 3RE
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United),
Tannadice Park,
Tannadice Street,
Dundee, DD3 7JW
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen);
Aberdeen Football Club plc
Pittodrie Stadium
Pittodrie Street
Aberdeen AB24 5QH
Les Gray (Hamilton),
Hamilton Academical FC
New Douglas Park
Hamilton
ML3 0FT
Mike Mulraney (Alloa)
Alloa Athletic FC
Clackmannan Road
Recreation Park
Alloa FK10 1RY
Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir).
Stenhousemuir F.C.
Ochilview Park
Gladstone Road
Stenhousemuir
Falkirk
FK5 4QL
The lack of press at Uttt is not a surprise to me. JC pointed out at the final day of uttt that most of the evidence reffered to paperwork that if you did not have I front of you then it would be difficult to put to press. To watch JC taking notes was awe inspiring and he had no acess to the palerwork, so if JC can report on the events why can the press not give some sort of update. Put it this way if HMRC lose the appeal it will be on every front page of every
paper in Scotland. Yesterday proves to me that the govan club will always be treated differently in this country. Why oh why.
Tupe’d! 🙂
Eventually
Satisfied the
Test.
wildwood says:
March 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm
This decision by the SPFL to refuse Aberdeen a further allocation for Sundays Cup Final sums it all up for me. Which governing body would insist that there were empty seats for a cup final while fans, prepared to pay, we’re left disappointed?
_________________________________________
The [English] Football League are just as capable. Championship play-off final 2012 Blackpool v West Ham. 10,000 unsold tickets in the Blackpool end whilst West Ham allocation did not make general sale. Made even worse that many Blackpool fans bought extra tickets and sold to West Ham fans to subsidise their travel and beer!
HirsutePursuit says:
March 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm
————————————-
How are the EBTs ultimately extinguished? (Assuming a loan were ever repaid). Do the proceeds go to the recipient’s estate on his/her death, or to his/her named or unnamed beneficiaries? Are there any circumstances where they might be refunded to the original donor (e.g. RFC (IL))? I’m trying to draw parallels with how Pension Trusts work.
As an aside, I wandered down to the UTT on Friday afternoon, and having sat beside him can confirm that John Clarke appears to write down everything in longhand, unaided by any technology other than pen(cil) and paper. For me, the experience was rather like wandering in on the second last reel of a Russian language film (played at the wrong speed). It took me an age to figure out who was who, and what was happening. Which wasn’t a lot. I was taken by the lack of theatre, and the lack of emotion, given one side or other would ultimately lose. Apart from one brief moment when the Murray Group team got excited about something, it had an air of two teams playing out a nil-nil draw, with the number of glances at the clock increasing in frequency from all parts of the court as 4 o’clock drew near. To echo Ecobhoy’s comments, it is entirely understandable how a media organisation with limited resources, such as BBC Scotland, would give events a body-swerve (for now).
Out of interest, has the UTT now concluded?
Has there been an ETA for the decision? Maybe by, say, the end of March?
Has there been any reason given for refusing Aberdeen more tickets due to demand? The reports I’ve seen just say the request has been declined, but don’t say why.
I didn’t think this was a blog about individual decisions made by referees. Please don’t let it become one.
Liverpool £50m loss
Forest £17m loss
McCaig’s tower
as barca would say – follow the money.
RFC(soon to be IL) pay money into a big trust where it is subdivided into individual player’s sub trusts. Money in sub trust is payable to Players beneficiary on player’s death. In the meantime Player applies for loan against his sub trust. The sub trust lend the money (and actually fund it with the the same money as paid in) on the security that if the player doesn’t pay it back (as if) the beneficiary won’t get. Player then traditionally blows the lot on bookies, women, failed pub ventures and wastes the rest. Player then dies. Player’s estate receives a bill from the sub-trust for the unpaid loan. Beneficiary receives an iou for their sub trust. One cancels out the other.
I do recall from the FTTT (don’t have my copy to hand right now) was there not one player who decided to leave it in the sub trust untouched (and ‘unloaned’ against). The full back that went to Spain from memory. Did he not query the investment strategy of the sub trust only to find a puzzled silence from the trustees, and a statement along the lines of we don’t know, we’ve never had one with money actually in it before, or words to that effect.
I’m also not aware of any recipients actually following the norwegian blue yet either so the mechanism strikes me as untested to date also.
EDIT: Sorry, the mechanism as used by RFC I meant. I’m sure the porn king’s sorted!
Barcabhoy
I welcomed the change in making a club’s financial position clearer, although the cynic in me told me this was SFA covering their rear end in that they are saying to clubs “tell us lies and we will publish them, so that later if it transpires we were misled we can point to the cause ( and it wiznae us).
The failure to publish though tells us just how much the presence and toleration of a club who are untrustworthy is damaging our game. Everything that happens from questionable refereeing decisions to non publication of finacial data is seen through the lens of one club being beneficiares.
Quite how the SFA do not realise how harming this is to them I do not understand.
Sure I can understand the panic thinking that produced the 5 way agreement in an attempt to minimise the perceived damage Rangers demise would create, but we are well past that point.
The fallout from Armageddon has been more red,orange and green tinted petals than radioactive dust particles and the authorities are being incredibly slow to respond to that changing vista.
In fact their pursuit of the same “lets protect Rangers at seemingly all costs ” is costing all, including Rangers successors and football authority itself.
Thus measures like publishing financial data simply not only get lost in the fog but actually contribute to thickening it.
The answer to fog is light and fresh air, time Hampden opened its doors and let some in. The atmosphere must be putrefying in there.
Smugas says:
March 10, 2014 at 1:51 pm
……was there not one player who decided to leave it in the sub trust untouched (and ‘unloaned’ against). The full back that went to Spain from memory. Did he not query the investment strategy of the sub trust only to find a puzzled silence from the trustees, and a statement along the lines of we don’t know, we’ve never had one with money actually in it before, or words to that effect.
————————————————————————————————————————
Smugas,
That must have been one beautiful, bemusing moment. Who said footballers were thick? 😆
Scottish Football needs a strong Albion Rovers.
Perhaps here’s a journalist who can do some investigation if Dave King does get involved: Where I have I heard the words on her strapline before!
https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta
Debora Patta – @Debora_Patta
Foreign TV Correspondent. Investigative Journalist. (debora311210@gmail.com) No fear, no favor!
South Africa
She is currently reporting on the Oscar Pistorius trial – including him throwing up in court when hearing the pathologist’s evidence!
I know many pooh pooh it but surely the phone lines will be red hot for tonight’s SSB and thus will no doubt result in some entertainment.
Blindsummit63 says:
March 10, 2014 at 1:26 pm
”Scottish Football is dead as a sport, and the only hope of resuscuitation is the clearing out and public shaming of the Rangers cabal that runs it.
OK, rant over, my apologies everyone. I am just so incensed by such public and brazen cheating that I just had to get this off my chest. :sad:”
—————————————
No apologies needed . That pretty much sums it for me to . I truly tried to look at the Sevco equaliser , in a charitable manner , from the various angles shown . All I can see is a foul . I will also follow your fine example and peruse the Rovers website and do my bit , others should follow suit . 😉
Castofthousands.
Its not culture- its money.
I think it quite possible to separate CF motives from what the revelations showed once compared with public utterances.
It was CF stuff that meant Celtic did not vote against Res12 and that avenue is still open and is not going to go away.
What the whole effort might well tell us in the end, and it is a possibility I have not dismissed, is that all of Scottish football is in this “cover up” together for no other reason of the interdependent nature of the business and those who earn a living around that business, mainly the redtops and phone ins.
But one way or another I and many others will know how much our clubs are complicit in avoiding truths that are self evident – there can be no doubt that LNS was incorrectly commissioned for example or that its decisions are bad for football – and I will be faced with a decisions others have already made – which is spend no more money to watch the game.
Further to the size of the ship being pulled, it depends on how many are pulling.
With reference to registration and the ease with which it could be managed more effectively. The Western Disctrict Cricket Union who oversee senior cricket in the West of Scotland have an online system which was introduced to prevent the use of ringers and people playing for more than one club.
It is cheap, easy to use and has been very effective to date. Perhaps the SPFL and SFA should get in touch.
Before everyone says, “Oh aye, but cricket isn’t that big and doesn’t have the same registration challenges,” there are as many cricket teams in the WDCU as in the SPFL and the rules on overseas players are even stricter and more complicated!
Campbellsmoney – relevant, topical and something the SMSM have not IMO reported in a fair and unbiased manner (check out the selection of pictures used to illuistrate the matches biggest talking point). The knock-on effect is there isa repklay which has fianncial implications for both teams (heaven forfend this is a blog just about Campbell’s money, so to speak….).
Anyhoo, to financial affairs and tax dodges – from the FT – Bayern Munich boss Uli Hoeness admits to evading €18.5m in taxes
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4e4e7982-a848-11e3-a946-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2vZVmvfjp
Para Handy says:
March 10, 2014 at 2:41 pm
The SFA do have an on-line Player Registration system, every Local Football Association in Scotland has access to it. I use it every year to register players and to check the elligibility of others. My access is restricted and it tells me who are available for registration, already signed to another club and when the IT department use the correct information which players hold professional status.
I am reminded of Christopher Brookmyre’s comment (and before I forget – if you haven’t already – go to his website – click on Extras and read “Playground Football” – that’s what football is all about).
What CB said (and I paraphrase) was that Celtic were the second least likely to be offended against team in Scottish football. Pretty clear what he meant by that.
For what it is worth I thought it was a poor decision but do you know what, I have seen much worse decisions (including at Inverness at the weekend) in matches where we can only assume the referee has made an honest mistake (unless we imagine a whole world where referees are conspiring to keep Annan down and get Elgin City up etc). But every time there is a decision in favour of TRFC that is questionable, bias and conspiracy are raised. Are we all keeping such an attentive eye out for any decisions that go against TRFC on the pitch? Is anyone out there going to suggest that not once this season have they ever had an appeal for a penalty turned down?
Whether Christopher Brookmyre was right or wrong about Celtic’s second favoured status only the referees can tell us. But I can tell you as a supporter of neither Rangers nor Celtic, that it has at times certainly felt like he is right.
Regardless – any favouring would be wrong of course.
I tend to agree with those worried that the blog is getting sidetracked by a questionable refereeing decision.
This blog is at its best when the likes of Ecobhoy forensically demolish nonsense, or when JC reports on events that others would rather we ignore. Moaning about refs is not the point here. Refereeing comes into play on the blog, with the likes of the Dallasgate eaffair; or the lying to Neil Lennon; or the lying about Kenny Shiels, or the lack of accountability of referees in the system to anyone – and the questionable system in play which sems to make refereeing training, assessment and allocation in the Scottish game highly questionable.
It’s the culture of refereeing, like the culture of the rest of the game’s hierarchy which is most suspect here, not – in the main – individual decisions in particular cup ties.
Campbellsmoney says:
March 10, 2014 at 3:26 pm
“For what it is worth I thought it was a poor decision but do you know what, I have seen much worse decisions”
——————————-
I’m inclined to agree in general CM but that inclination is dwindling over time. I always assumed that the perceived bias against Celtic was just a perception and explained logically by an individual’s tendencies to defend their own position. That’s the thing with bias, you don’t even know it is happening. It is simply the innate human reaction to self protection that is wholly natural.
I’d agree that Celtic were likely the second most favoured club when it came to refereeing decisions but based more on logic rather than experience. It isn’t really something that can be distilled out as a fact. These are always by their very nature, opinions. You have to accept that there will always be grey areas which is fine.
Where it really gets to the nub of the blog’s raison d’etre is whether sport finances in the end kill off the sporting element. There has to be a modicum of jeopardy in both business and sport. That is where the blog exists, in the space between business and sport; poking a stick at stuff that looks fishy.
In some ways it does us no favours to focus in on individual decisions. The problem is that we are attempting to police circumstances where we feel the policy makers may have become encumbered by conflicts of interest. I would have been disappointed if the blog had went on a rant but this does not appear to have happened. Equally it is understandable that given other factors, certain refereeing decisions might be highlighted more than others.
This is a difficult topic and it may not be possible to set strict ground rules. There have been a few moderating opinions, like your own, that serve to keep the discussion in check. I agree it shouldn’t be dwelt upon but it need not be entirely ignored either.
nawlite says:
March 10, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Has there been any reason given for refusing Aberdeen more tickets due to demand? The reports I’ve seen just say the request has been declined, but don’t say why.
——
I believe it’s due to a perceived need to keep a big empty space between opposing fans. In the case of either or both “big” Glasgow teams being involved, I could understand that.
But Aberdeen – Caley should be another of those”family” finals (which every final not involving a Cheek is, really 😉 ).
There were various poor decisions over the weekend,ICT supporters will feel rightly aggreived.The decision at Ibrox is totally different,it directly affected the outcome,very impressed with Nevin’s comments on Sportsound last night.It was a really poor decision,but thats all it can be.Move on please and I’ll return to hibernation
Hmm, looks like the convention that visiting “dignitaries” to Ibrox sit in the neutral seats has been abandoned by RC Ogilvie. At yesterday’s cup match he and Mrs O sat comfortably in the home section, right behind the Blues brothers and the “120 day review” man. See http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/090314-Rangers-v-Albion-Rovers/G0000VPwZ.gOrty4/I0000dK5WW_14Mk4/C0000yOu7FPfzvwk/
Maybe RCO wanted to nip out first at full time, to make sure the balls to be used in the cup draw were suitably arranged?
Anyone else notice how in the CL/Europa League/FA Cup draws, you can actually see into urn containing the balls, yet they remain determinedly out of the public sight when it comes to the Scottish Cup?
To paraphrase Red Lichtie, Scottish football needs clean, as well as strong, balls.
Angus1983 says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:36 pm
————————————–
Using their brains is beyond the SPFL. Aberdeen could easily be given the top tier of the Lisbon Lions stand, above the ICT. All you have to do is keep the front 6 rows empty to prevent temptation! Meantime dozens of Dons fans are buying up ICT tickets….4 at a time, no questions asked
Look at the showpiece matches this season – Aberdeen v Celtic last month, 1st v 2nd, got no TV coverage live or delayed on the night it was played, the League Cup final will have 10,000+ empty seats on view, yet there are thousands of fans still wanting to get to this match. I would have taken my son as neutrals if we could have bought seats.
Wait till we see the seating arrangements for the Scottish Cup semi finals and final….. You wouldn’t mind conspirators so much if they were actually competent…but they ain’t even that.
Campbellsmoney – I had a quick look @ the schoolboy football write-up – très amusant – struggling to see where the paraphrased bit you mention is. Did see his comment about O’Taffyville, as though there could not be a celtic stronghold outwith Ireland that might house a “Celtic-supporting corner”, which I found a bit odd. Either way, it seems to be whataboutery from a supporter of neither team.
It also has echoes the hoary old “two cheeks” example put forward by Angus1983 (if Celtic & OldGers are the cheeks, surely that just leaves an [self-censored] in the middle?).
BTW excuse the typos in the previous post everyone, was dashing for a meeting… 😳
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/albion-rovers/267934-albion-rovers-set-to-play-twice-in-48-hours-as-cup-replay-set-for-march-17/
Albion Rovers to play cup replay just 48 hours after their league match. This is getting ridiculous now.[]
Whilst not wishing to dwell too long on refereeing, I do think that Campbellsmoney’s intervention here has been welcome. If the Masonic conspiracy theorists are correct (and I absolutely do not share that view), then this isn’t about Rangers at all – it is about Celtic. Consequently we are utterly powerless to do anything about it except moan – and our unity will be under serious threat.
If the rest of us are correct, then any corruption amongst referees is likely to be of the “bungs” or “circle the wagons” variety as well as a subset of the culture of institutionalised corruption at the SFA where money and not ethnicity is the driving force. Remember the EBTs. This was not a pseudo-religious crusade, it was pure unadulterated greed acquisitiveness and avarice.
That is something we can unite around, and I think Auldheid has made some strides towards building a model which would increase accountability and give us all confidence going forward. Dwelling on individual refereeing decisions cannot take that forward – unless the referee involved confesses to deliberate wrong-doing.
The overall satisfaction level in terms of our refereeing service is poor – and yet the clubs have made no attempt whatsoever to change the arrogant culture that exists within the current framework. That should be the real focus of our attention, not the hapless John Beaton and his two minutes of fame yesterday – however frustrated Rovers fans feel today.
jockybhoy says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm
0 0 i
Rate This
Campbellsmoney – I had a quick look @ the schoolboy football write-up – très amusant – struggling to see where the paraphrased bit you mention is. Did see his comment about O’Taffyville, as though there could not be a celtic stronghold outwith Ireland that might house a “Celtic-supporting corner”, which I found a bit odd. Either way, it seems to be whataboutery from a supporter of neither team.
It also has echoes the hoary old “two cheeks” example put forward by Angus1983 (if Celtic & OldGers are the cheeks, surely that just leaves an [self-censored] in the middle?).
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————
JockyBhoy – the paraphrased bit comes from one of his novels (not sure which one – sorry) not from the bit about Playground Football – just thought that was worth a look for anyone who hadn’t already seen it. Not sure what you mean about O’Taffyville – maybe its in another bit of his website. As is fairly well-known, Christopher Brookmyre is a St Mirren supporter. His views are just his views- they carry no more weight than the views of any other person, here there or anywhere. Nor are they necessarily representative of what followers of teams other than Rangers and Celtic feel. In fact this might not even be what Christopher Brookmyre feels at all. The bit I paraphrased are the thoughts of one of his characters in one of his books.
So there you go – the imaginary thoughts of a fictional character.
Just watched that ‘goal’ in the cup tie at Ibrox, and all I can say is that Rangers got many a controversial goal in their long history, but it appears that The Rangers are going to get a hell of a lot more in their climb to their ‘rightful place’!
Mind you, looks like the ‘hand of God’, as well as ‘elbows a plenty’, has arrived at Ibrox!!!
Campbellsmoney,
I note that you have been referenced on a Jags forum and I copy it here, what I love is the first response. In what I consider typical Firhill irony, I think most on here would love the greatest controversy to be such…
The post is from a USA fan, banderas, in a thread on Sally’s squad rebuilding plans:
http://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9321-rangers-ally-mccoist-delays-squad-rebuilding-plans-at-ibrox/page__st__120
“in an attempt to start a house fire , it would be a first insolvency event the previous version is going through liquidation procedures . How the football authorities deem is confusing as in the procedural activities this version are being treated as New , but the narrative in football terms from the football authorities is to see this version as a continuation. of that in Liq…. (oops nearly said it ) . The link and copy below somewhat explains the possible mechanics of Admin , (1 or 2 based on your footballing views).
some thoughts from TSFM contributor Campbellsmoney:
http://www.tsfm.net/…ge-10/#comments
1. Limited owes PLC a lot of money (let’s assume it is £20m). PLC sells that debt to a BVI company – Rangers International Cash Holdings (“RICH”). PLC already knows that Limited cannot repay that £20m so PLC is prepared to discount the debt. That debt is sold by PLC to RICH for £15m. RICH is now the creditor in Limited. PLC now has £15m.
{Continues for another 7/7 paragraphs}
The response:
cyprusjag
mull of kintyre
Yes ,that’s all very well but was he offside when the ball was played ?”
Forfolksake says:
March 10, 2014 at 3:15 pm
Para Handy says:
The SFA do have an on-line Player Registration system, every Local Football Association in Scotland has access to it. I use it every year to register players and to check the elligibility of others. My access is restricted and it tells me who are available for registration, already signed to another club and when the IT department use the correct information which players hold professional status.
________________________
Thanks Forfolksake,
When you register a player, are you allowed to attach side letters?
😳 😯
http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9206069/gers-score-controversial-equaliser
I have watched the video over a few times. There was no hand ball – it was definitely head. There was contact on the ‘Keeper before making contact with the ball and that is always a foul in my book. With the benefit of many replays I am confident it was a foul.
That said, the match officials don’t get to see the incident multiple times in slow motion. I don’t hold with the pro-Rangers conspiracy theories. The Referee was either made a mistake or simply didn’t have the courage to call it. Did the Referee consult his Assistant? If not, he should have done.
Right, we have teams from Aberdeen, Dundee and Perth definitely in the semis.
Yes boss.
And one other from Glasgow or Coatbridge.
Yes boss.
So we go ahead with the plan to play both semis in Glasgow?
Of course boss.
And the Sunday game that features no one from West Central Scotland…
Aye?
We play that on Sunday lunchtime!
Genius boss. You really earn your wages.
I’m one of the most acclaimed administrators in European football you know.
Yes boss. You keep telling me.
TSFM says:
March 10, 2014 at 5:08 pm
That is something we can unite around, and I think Auldheid has made some strides towards building a model which would increase accountability and give us all confidence going forward.
——
TSFM … have you been attending business-speak courses?
🙂
TSFM says:
March 10, 2014 at 5:08 pm
I would not be limiting a change of culture to refereeing but to every service the SFA provide to the leagues because such a development actually produces a change of culture in both the service supplier and those using that service.
I had experience of this in changing the culture of a good sized IT department serving may users over two main sites and overseas offices.
One thing I remember about the change process was the fear that the IT folk had of being more answerable to the users they served. There was a fair degree of understandable anxiety, but a year after the changes had been introduced and bedded down , no one would have considered a return to the old arrangement, neither IT staff nor users.
The hard work of defining services, what could be done by when, how to measure satisfaction of the service, who measured it and how issues were addressed through service level agreements produced a smarter, more professional service providing business than before and in respect of referees, they will all find their level through good performances being rewarded and have nothing to fear from the change.
I am willing to bet that a year after any implementation everyone at the SFA and SPFL would be asking ” why did we not do this before?.”
The supporters though would not change their attitude to any decision costing their clubs, although the cry might become who “Whose the IIB” – (the Incompetent in the Black)
Wee bit OT, but after quite a bit of searching I finally found a MW stream of BBC Scotland Sportsound. Not everyone’s cup of tea is Sportsound, but any exiles like masel might find the following link useful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/6407137.stm
WOTTPI @ 2.20pm
You are right so far HK has said sevco will beat Albion rovers in the replay and go on to beat Dundee utd because the game is at ibrox???????? Remind me where was the game yesterday???? However most sevconians are calling for ally to walk away ASAP 😉
Re the ref thing – there’s doesn’t need to be any conspiracy. We decide emotionally before our conscious mind kicks-in.
jw hardin says:
March 10, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Hi JW
Re the ref thing – there’s doesn’t need to be any conspiracy. We decide emotionally before our conscious mind kicks-in.
———————————————————-
And the corollary to that is…!!!!!
jean7brodie says:
March 10, 2014 at 7:01 pm
jw hardin says: March 10, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Hi JW Re the ref thing – there’s doesn’t need to be any conspiracy. We decide emotionally before our conscious mind kicks-in. ———————————————————- And the corollary to that is…!!!!
++++++++++++++
Collum’s mistake was not consulting his linesman.
It would’ve given him time for his rational mind to over-ride his emotional (his left side brain could’ve changed his decision plus allowing input from linesman).
If a person does not feel secure they tend to compensate by appearing decisive.
That plus immediacy allows for mistakes.
Angus1983 says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:36 pm
========================
Had the original (but much maligned) plan stuck Aberdeen could have got 50,000 tickets for the LC final. The most easily managed segregation at Celtic Park in the past is to put 8,000 Rangers fans in a third of the Lisbon Lions Stand and the South East corner. Would that have been fair to ICT fans for a showcase final though?
However, should Aberdeen progress to the final, no matter who they get there will be a case for an even split of tickets. I see no reason at all why Celtic Park can’t be split into two even parts, right down the middle.
jw hardin says:
March 10, 2014 at 7:33 pm
I thought you were talking about referee Beaton at the Albion Rovers v TRFC match? It doesn’t actually matter though, he should have consulted his colleagues and he chose not to. I would have thought that consultation was a given and that his ‘training’ would make that explicit?
If emotions allow decisions like this then the system is ‘faulty’. 😉
Esteban says:
March 10, 2014 at 6:52 pm
“Logically, this could be by helping Rangers or by hindering Celtic.”
—————————-
You’re arguing from a point of greater knowledge so I would find difficulty in countering. I’d love to believe that Celtic were routinely disadvantaged by, for instance refereeing decisions, I really would. However we’re not going to ever be able to prove that. For supporters like yourself that have viewed these episodes intently and now feel emboldened to call it as you see it then I have no problem. Everyone will make up their own minds. Those with most evidence, like yourself, will feel all the more empowered to arrive at such a conclusion.
My own personal bias revolves around wishing the world were a fair and honest place. Utterly naive I know, but that is what informs my outlook. When Sanoffymess… posted up the video and provided his opinion as someone who had refereed, I was firmly knocked off the fence and felt it was a poor decision. However my default mode is to be rational and a bit insipid. If I posted up what I really felt TSFM would have me for breaking the rules. So I tend to take the decorum stance; accepting what others say and then maybe advancing it a wee bit further.
Its been said many times that we would like to have an inclusive narrative. I think this is a good idea, however altruistic. Somebody has to take the first step in bringing about the entente cordial. I don’t think this need marginalise strong opinions however, far from it. It’s difficult to distill the truth from all our own natural bias and I fall victim to that like everyone else.
slimshady61 says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:57 pm
19
1
Rate This
Angus1983 says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:36 pm
————————————–
Using their brains is beyond the SPFL. Aberdeen could easily be given the top tier of the Lisbon Lions stand, above the ICT. All you have to do is keep the front 6 rows empty to prevent temptation! Meantime dozens of Dons fans are buying up ICT tickets….4 at a time, no questions asked
Look at the showpiece matches this season – Aberdeen v Celtic last month, 1st v 2nd, got no TV coverage live or delayed on the night it was played, the League Cup final will have 10,000+ empty seats on view, yet there are thousands of fans still wanting to get to this match. I would have taken my son as neutrals if we could have bought seats.
Wait till we see the seating arrangements for the Scottish Cup semi finals and final….. You wouldn’t mind conspirators so much if they were actually competent…but they ain’t even that.
______________________________________________________
I doubt you’d even need to keep the 6 rows separate.
I wonder if the concern is about the stairwells? I haven’t been in Celtic Park so don’t know if there are segregated stairwells outwith the reach of the respective tiers?
In practice I see no issue… Caley fans mix with allcomers outwith the Tulloch and there is not a history of trouble.
I hope more Aberdeen fans do get to go.
I wonder if a possible option would be to open up a designated family section in the upper LL tier?
If they made it so that all adults needed to be accompanied by an under 16 year old to gain admission to the section, then I can see how that could be a good thing and prevent trouble… people behave better in front of their kids!, so this should deal with any concerns about missiles being thrown down on us Caley fans… not that there should be any I would hope.
I can see that as a possible win-win.
ecobhoy says:
March 10, 2014 at 9:29 am
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Hi Eco, thanks for taking the time to respond to my previous post about BBC non-coverage of the UTT. Been thinking about what you said and would like to respond. In doing so, I hope I have not misinterpreted your meaning – please correct me if I have.
You mention blaming it all on a conspiracy theory. To be fair, I don’t think I mentioned any conspiracy theory. My post was about the inadequacy of the BBC’s coverage of what most reasonable people would regard as the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history. In my post I attribute this to a dumbing down of the BBC content and failure of the organisation as a national broadcaster.
You then give a very good discussion of the pressures facing a modern news corporation and those that work for it. I agree with an awful lot of that, but restate my fundamental position: the BBC is funded from tax at least partly so that it can be unencumbered by a great many of those pressures. The current failure to report not just on the UTT but on so many aspects of this saga are, IMO, directly attributable to the manner in which political masters over the last 20-30 years have forced the organisation to adopt structures that directly lead to the kinds of problems you mention and, again in IMO, have severely depleted the BBC’s standing as a robust, independent source of unbiased news.
You also mention the potential (and sometimes very real) harassment faced by journos. I post anonymously, so I cannot claim any moral high ground here. However, a properly structured national broadcaster ought to be able to offer a much more secure environment to assist staff in facing down such abuse and threats to their ability to perform their jobs via PR mobs. Again, my complaint here is with the manner in which the BBC is structured and run.
I think I have a fair understanding of why the UTT has not been covered, even by the BBC. If it is ‘wishful thinking’ to believe that it could and should be different, then I am guilty as charged. A large part of the purpose of this blog is to highlight such deficiencies in the MSM, so I won’t feel to lonely I guess.
I wonder how this saga might have been reported by the local media in another country. Perhaps someone on here has been in a place like Italy during one of the big corruption scandals there? Even though the actual proceedings might be a bit dry and dull (excitement in a courtroom must be fairly rare?) the import for the national sport and, indeed, the business community, could fairly easily have made for an intriguing story – if only it had been covered at all.
Think about it – the idea that Scotland’s most successful club potentially cheated its way to a significant number of trophies by failing to register players properly over a period of many years AND accumulated those players by potentially illegally avoiding tax payments running to tens of millions of pounds! If that is not the stuff of sensational news telling then what is? I think just about any other country’s press would have been giving this star billing for the duration.
Finally, I think there is an element (a little ironically) of wishful thinking saying that we have to have the Ranger supporters on side if we are to progress towards a corruption-free game in Scotland. I think the chances of the Rangers support coming on board to the prevalent view here of what has passed in recent years is unlikely in the extreme. I welcome any fan of any team, including Rangers, who is prepared to say that the corruption of the past (and present) are wrong and must not continue. Surely we cannot allow ourselves to be held hostage by the threat of unhappy fans of any single team? The days of one (or even two) teams, clubs, clumpanies or fans totally dominating the game have to be over for good.
Again, I hope I have not misrepresented your meaning in any of the above. I am in the ‘D’ division, and may have to learn patience still 😉
Still going through it all but I can I just say, off the bat, Mr John Clarke – sir, take the floor, a bow and a snifter at the bar for the most eminent fellow, I say! Absolutely sterling work, marvellous!
…
WOTTPI @ 2.20pm
You are right so far HK has said sevco will beat Albion rovers in the replay and go on to beat Dundee utd because the game is at ibrox???????? Remind me where was the game yesterday???? However most sevconians are calling for ally to walk away ASAP
@@@@@@@@@
I too thought it may be interesting to listen to the panel this evening ( had to sully my ‘phone with Clyde1 app! ) – may I just say what a lot of nonsense. Whilst listening I had many a point to make, but I find I come on here, just as it’s finishing, a couple of glasses to the good, the bolognese still flavouring, and discover all the points have evaporated. And that’s when I have the epiphany – the subject, much like the panel, are completely irrelevant (not having previously been a listener I must admit to a shade of embarrassment at the topics, the arguments, generally the show itself but please don’t take that as been snobbish or elitist because I’m far from that!). The real story is about so much more than 11 men playing in a shade of blue, it’s about a press pack that is utterly unfit for purpose. FFS, Alex Rae was talking about Ally McCheeky’ s transfer budget for next year, Hugh Keevins was asking which team chaos played for… Cringeworthy.
And for that reason I’m going back to the bolognese… (And I shall try and remember the point I was trying to make in the 1st place!)
NTDEAL says:
March 10, 2014 at 4:49 pm
4
7
Rate This
There were various poor decisions over the weekend,ICT supporters will feel rightly aggreived.The decision at Ibrox is totally different,it directly affected the outcome,very impressed with Nevin’s comments on Sportsound last night.It was a really poor decision,but thats all it can be.Move on please and I’ll return to hibernation
_________________________________________
As a Caley fan I have to say, Collum had a shocker. (But So did Brill)
1 DUFC player should have walked early (reckless on MacKay, albeit w/o intent) and at least one if not both of the Caley players could have stayed on.
I don’t think it affected the outcome in anyway though. Dundee had more decent chances than they scored.
Shinnie was the only jags player to put in a full shift yesterday, so we got the hiding we deserved.
Another article on the Rangers Standard showing signs that the penny has dropped
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/318-take-the-power-back?
I have just posted the last bit of the proceedings of the UTTT on Friday , on the UTTT thread.
I can’t hide the fact that I felt that HMRC did not make as good a fist of presenting their ( much sounder) arguments as Mr Thornhill did of his (sometimes a bit stretched not to say far out arguments). Bit disappointing really, as I think we all felt on Friday.
Eh…not quite, they are still unable to say the L word and I don’t blame them not wanting to go over what happened after DM. DEATH !!!!! So where are we now in the Kubler Ross thingmybobbery ???
Good Eveing
Great stuff from John Clarke as usual.
In the long run the truth will out and the cheating will have been held to have taken place.
I don’t think it will make one blind bit of difference to the SFA or SPFL as they will just shrug their shoulders and say,and rightly so, that was the company that went into liquidation and it couldn’t happen now.
How easily we become deflected from the present.
Where are the accounts?
Where did the money go?
Does Craig Whyte still have a snout in the feeding trough?
Well done Rovers. With a better playing surface I am sure that they would have won.
Is any money being spent on ground maintainance?
Not a good advert for our game with semi finals having to be played there.
We haz ch00n!!!
http://youtu.be/i4EhBL8Uzgc
john clarke says:
March 10, 2014 at 9:16 pm
8 0 Rate This
———
Interesting stuff once again John. Perhaps your disappointment is also because the second week was very much about Mr Thornhill. Hopefully, the judge will do the right thing. Either way, I guess this is set to run on into extra time and penalty kicks, whatever the result of this re-play.
john clarke says:
March 10, 2014 at 9:16 pm
8
0
Rate This
I have just posted the last bit of the proceedings of the UTTT on Friday , on the UTTT thread.
I can’t hide the fact that I felt that HMRC did not make as good a fist of presenting their ( much sounder) arguments as Mr Thornhill did of his (sometimes a bit stretched not to say far out arguments). Bit disappointing really, as I think we all felt on Friday.
_______________________________________________
Great job JC.
So much for equality before the law. What comes across is a crusading public servant battling a silver tongued very well paid and extremely polished expert in the laws of tax and their circumvention. Lets hope the quality of his argument outweighs the presentation of them, and vice versa for Thornhill.
Wonder how many of the days of the FTT deliberation period – upon which Thronhill tried to dismiss the assertion that HMRC evidence had not been properly scrutinised – were taken up by Dr.Poon typing up her judgement while the majority were swinging 4 irons?
That is an impression that emerges from the judgement.
Ooh those funny Jags guys 😀 😀 😀
But of course they know fine well what insolvency is all about.
Campbellsmoney says:
March 10, 2014 at 9:52 pm
3
0
Rate This
Ooh those funny Jags guys 😀 😀 😀
But of course they know fine well what insolvency is all about.
___________________________________________
I found Blackpool via MaryHill Comment #133 an entertaining and astute summary, presented in accessible language and shorn of unnecessary syllables.
Won’t reproduce it here in deference to inclusion of some non TSFM vernacular, but I rather enjoyed it.
http://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9321-rangers-ally-mccoist-delays-squad-rebuilding-plans-at-ibrox/page__st__120
Zilch says:
March 10, 2014 at 8:28 pm
ecobhoy says:
March 10, 2014 at 9:29 am
=========================================
Hi Zilch
I fully accept that you weren’t using the ‘conspiracy’ angle and you are correct that we should expect better from the Beeb.
What I was trying to do was give a wide-ranging look at some of the factors that could influence an editorial decision as to whether the UTT should be covered or not and not just play the ‘conspiracy’ card. IMO it didn’t stand a snowball’s chance of coverage given the various factors I listed.
One of the things I left out but actually covered in a separate earlier post but should have repeated is: The fear factor for the SMSM that if they turned-up then there might be some evidence that that they would have to have used that could have seriously upset the apple cart. Far better, in their mind, to stay well clear and safe 🙄
You say: ‘Think about it – the idea that Scotland’s most successful club potentially cheated its way to a significant number of trophies by failing to register players properly over a period of many years AND accumulated those players by potentially illegally avoiding tax payments running to tens of millions of pounds! If that is not the stuff of sensational news telling then what is?’
The facts are that that Rangers were cleared by the FTTT and LNS – helped by the Bryson Definition so ‘potential’ doesn’t really cut-it and I’m afraid I can fully understand why the SMSM won’t provide any real coverage unless HMRC again fail in their argument or if HMRC win. The difference in coverage could be a major factor of course.
Whether you or I like it I’m afraid the reality is that news has been totally dumbed-down and major news stories day and daily are reduced to 30 second sound bites. That’s the reality and it won’t get any better so the only way around it is providing an alternative news service. It can be achieved but might well be beyond the capabilities of TSFM or any other blog.
And the big problem isn’t the quality or commitment of posters but IMO the anonymity issue and the attendant problem of not being able to get and use NUJ accreditation without becoming identifiable.
Wrt to my comments about Rangers supporters I don’t think what I said is easily or quickly achieved – But I believe it’s essential to at least attempt it. Personally I don’t need an apology from Bears and I don’t hold them individually responsible for the corruption that exists in Scottish Football.
There are things I disagree with concerning some of their supporters but that is my view wrt some Celtic supporters as well. I might not know how or when we will resolve the current impasse with a sizeable element of the Rangers support but I am clear in my own mind that we cannot ‘sort’ Scottish Football if they are left festering on the ‘outside’.
But the Rangers saga has still quite a bit to play before the dust even begins to settle and hopefully in time the climate will change enough to termper the current largely self-imposed isolation and slowly replace it with simple rivalry and passion for our own individual teams without the need to hate rival supporters.
Perhaps the only possible solution is for Celtic and Rangers (dependant on what the future holds for them) leaving Scottish Football but I really don’t see that happening any time soon.
Perhaps the only possible solution is for Celtic and Rangers (dependant on what the future holds for them) leaving Scottish Football but I really don’t see that happening any time soon…
_______________________________________
Really… ????
Rangers are already in liquidation… unarguable fact.
TRFC are operating on an unsustainable financial basis.
So the possibility of them ‘leaving Scottish football’ any time soon is therefore real and present, although by no means certain.
The Ibrox institutions is showing more signs of fracture than at any time in the recent history.
Attendance at perhaps the most critical game of this season thus far – for non pre sold tickets- was down to ~23000. (And did I read somewhere that season ticket holders would be direct debited automatically for home cup games unless they opted out… or was that a made up rumour!)
The bears are finally waking up, and they may turn things round. But this is only a sign of how far things have degenerated.
But the fact is no ‘Ibrox club’ in the future IS still a distinct possibility as things stand.
Alot of intervention will be required to turn this old tanker round – and before it turns over of its own accord!
Casting my mind back just over a year ago, one club set a precedent by officially refusing to handle tickets for an SFA cup tie, ignoring the spirit of the Association’s guidelines regarding promotion of the game with regard to co-operation with media companies, and acting on the wrong side of sportsmanship.
Green, McCoist, McCulloch and several others constantly talked down fan participation in the SFA’s flagship competition, and, correct me if I am wrong, no censure was forthcoming from the SFA or their selectively active compliance officer Vincent Lunny. Not a word was uttered from Hampden. No action was taken at all.
Well, not until this season: for attempting to damage their own major competition, the SFA took decisive steps, and awarded two lucrative semi final ties to the boycotters, with undue haste.
I’d say ‘puzzling’, but it really isn’t.
john clarke says: March 10, 2014 at 9:16 pm
I have just posted the last bit of the proceedings of the UTTT on Friday , on the UTTT thread.
=================================
Thanks again JC.
Given the possibility of the case being remitted back to another FTT, I wonder if the proceedings would be held in public next time round. Certainly the names of many of the individuals involved are now public knowledge and there was a distinct lack of public interest at the UTTT, so the risk factor is low. I’m sure that it would be much more interesting viewing and enlightening to see witnesses questioned and cross examined.
Can I make a provisional reservation for your services for late 2014 or early 2015? 😆
Campbell’s money: sorry, I misunderstood – when you said “I am reminded of Christopher Brookmyre’s comment …What CB said (and I paraphrase) was that Celtic were the second least likely to be offended against team in Scottish football. Pretty clear what he meant by that” I assumed Christopher Brookmyre commented or indeed said something, rather than being “the imaginary thoughts of a fictional character”.
Based on that misapprehension I had a quick butcher’s online and found the following article (from 2005) where he DID differentiate between running out for The Buddies and “this kissing the badge nonsense that you keep seeing from some football players, though… For example, one player who signed for Celtic turned round and said that he was from the Celtic-supporting corner of Wales. Where is that? O’Taffyville?”
Seems to me Mr Brookmyre has some preconceived and slightly peculiar views where Celtic are concerned… Not sure I’d take his views at face value.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BUDDY+BRILLIANT%3B+Boys%27+own+tale+for+footie+fan+Brookmyre.-a0132454079
Just a few questions for the resident (or just visiting) legals, barrack room lawyers, statos, etc….
Did Albion Rovers agree to the date of the cup replay? Will the SFA give a reason for scheduling the game two days after a mainly part time Albion Rovers play a league game? Are there any precedents for such short time spans?
Just wondering…
I’m a bit simple: can someone explain to me why Ross Draper was suspended from the ICT Scottish Cup tie on Sunday (seeing as he had accrued 2 bookings in two previous ties), yet David Templeton played at Ibrox for his side (and he too had accrued 2 bookings in two previous ties)?
There’s probably an obvious explanation that I’m missing.
I’ll take a step back. The game on the Monday seems to disadvantage both Albion 48 hours after Saturday AND Sevco 4th game in 8 days. If the semi isn’t till April I don’t see the immediate rush.
Just on the UTT coverage if Sevco ‘win’ I’d expect more tub thumping told you so’s from the MSM with precious little detail in behind. I am ok with that since they have effectively won, twice. If HMRC win however Id like to see more extensive coverage of the mechanism whereby ordinary Joe can compare his income less 40% versus multimillionaires less zip. Then they could form their own opinion, no?
Smugas says:
March 10, 2014 at 11:21 pm
3 0 Rate This
I’ll take a step back. The game on the Monday seems to disadvantage both Albion 48 hours after Saturday AND Sevco 4th game in 8 days. If the semi isn’t till April I don’t see the immediate rush.
Just on the UTT coverage if Sevco ‘win’ I’d expect more tub thumping told you so’s from the MSM with precious little detail in behind. I am ok with that since they have effectively won, twice. If HMRC win however Id like to see more extensive coverage of the mechanism whereby ordinary Joe can compare his income less 40% versus multimillionaires less zip. Then they could form their own opinion, no?
————————————————————————————————-
If HMRC lose, I will be on the doorstep of my employer demanding he pay me by loan, bollox to salary.
One of those ‘special’ loans which I don’t pay tax on and I don’t need to repay.
Have I gone mad? Is this really going to be the decision?
Some other gems:
Bankers get squillions in bonuses even though they bankrupt us but we have to pay them squillions because someone else will pay them even more squillions if we don’t.
Quantitive easing………where banks get squillions of our money to loan………..but keep it instead and make squillions by doing so.
Yes, indeed I must be stupid, I really cannot see why any of the above is allowed to happen.
orussiabeefburg says:
March 10, 2014 at 11:02 pm
3 0 Rate This
I’m a bit simple: can someone explain to me why Ross Draper was suspended from the ICT Scottish Cup tie on Sunday (seeing as he had accrued 2 bookings in two previous ties), yet David Templeton played at Ibrox for his side (and he too had accrued 2 bookings in two previous ties)?
There’s probably an obvious explanation that I’m missing.
====================================
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/SFAHandbook/14DiscProced.pdf
ICT as one of the higher ranking teams, did not enter the competition until round 4. Sevco, as one of the lower ranked teams entered in an earlier round.
parttimearab says:
March 10, 2014 at 8:59 pm
“Another article on the Rangers Standard showing signs that the penny has dropped”
————————————
Thanks for the article parttimearab. It does show a reasonable level of awareness but I’m not sure how long it will take for that penny to land.
It starts off well talking about the pointless pursuit of saviours then ends up ruining it all by talking about Dave king as if he is not in fact a very naughty boy but the real messiah.
If they want to do a season ticket boycott and do a walk up instead then surely all these fans organisations could arrange as much. The idea that they should give their season ticket money to Dave King just seems a bit naive, even for me. Of course boycotting season tickets would put the club in a precarious position. However there seem to be few other options.
Surely some of their number could come up with a clever wee plan that would allow cash to get to the club but in a way that uses supporter’s purchasing power to best effect.
Smugas says:
March 10, 2014 at 11:21 pm
9 0 Rate This
——
You are right Smugas, and yet the greater reality is that RFC and MG lost. Their delay and deception in an attempt to gain an unfair sporting advantage backfired. RFC demised.
What is left is an illusion that traumatised fans cling on to. When the escape from reality ends the undeniable fact, that years of tax avoidance destroyed the old club, will sink in. Some will, of course, live in denial. The legals will talk until they are blue in the face; and judges may rule for or against, but to the common-sense logic of the man in the street the real punishment was handed down in 2012. Consigned to liquidation it was.
Castofthousands says:
March 11, 2014 at 12:32 am
If they want to do a season ticket boycott and do a walk up instead then surely all these fans organisations could arrange as much. The idea that they should give their season ticket money to Dave King just seems a bit naive, even for me. Of course boycotting season tickets would put the club in a precarious position. However there seem to be few other options.
Surely some of their number could come up with a clever wee plan that would allow cash to get to the club but in a way that uses supporter’s purchasing power to best effect.
=================================================
Obviously not one of their number but as a staunch believer in organised fan power a certain thought comes to my mind.
It depends whether the story doing the rounds is correct that Rangers ST renewals for next season automatically renew for existing ST holders. Apparently the only get-out clause is if you write to the club and tell them you are not allowing automatic deduction for next season.
That doesn’t necessarily mean fans won’t renew but can you imagine how quickly the current Board would be brought to heel by the shareholders if say 10-20,000 fan mail arrived at Ibrox withdrawing automatic renewal on STs.
I think that could very well win the power battle without having to set up a trust to hold unpaid ST money and many fans are loth to damage their club financially by not paying for their STs.
Of course I would hope that such a powerful bargaining chip in the hands of the fans wasn’t just handed over to Dave King but as I have said many times before it is up to the Bears to decide what kind of club they want to have at Ibrox.
For some time I have seen green shoots 😀 at Ibrox – not including the playing surface I hasten to add – and it’s obvious some fans are starting to think in financial terms. But I have the feeling that it might take a few more kicks in the teeth from so-called Rangers’ Men or Spivs, who become inflicted with the obligatory bout of temporary Rangeritis, before the Bears finally waken-up to the fairly long-term financial realities they face.
And more importantly that without their Blue Pounds the Spivs can’t rip them off. But they’ll need to act quickly because the Spivs have their plan in place and are locking-in all the details and before long the jaws will slam shut on any hope of fans having a meaningful say not just in the way Rangers is run but in the ethos of the club and whether that can be dragged into the modern age.
No, you heard that correctly. If you can cast your mind back two years, you may remember when CG first put out the requests for season tickets, for many of them it was not Direct Debits that the supporters signed; it was Continuous Credit Agreements. They are even quite difficult to cancel.
http://lawtop20.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/can-football-supporters-challenge.html?spref=tw
This might be relevant to the debate on how the LNS verdict could be challenged. With great difficulty, I think is the answer.
Danish,
At risk of sounding up myself, in fact not risk at all, in sounding completely up myself I would suggest the staunch TSFM’r is aware of the UTT and it’s machinations but average Jo blogger is not. Yes there is preaching to the converted but there is undeniably a large ignorant mass out there relying on the MSM to tell them why HMRC seem to have such a problem with the bears. Telling them if the appeal fails will just seem like sour grapes. If the appeal is upheld though the masses are perfectly capable of understandng that they pay tax but the Torre Andre Flos do not.
I would argue that RFC(il) still have a swathe of popular opinion or even indifference on their side at present through nothing else than failure to be told the facts.
Thanks for that HP. Now, I see the pdf is entitled ‘14DiscProced’: does that indicate anything, like, perhaps these procedures were introduced for season 2013-14?
Just wondering, for previously, 2 bookings took a player from the lower leagues out of reckoning for the subsequent round. If a change occurred for this season, anyone have any ideas why the SFA would have a newly discovered concern for the lower league teams?
neepheid says:
March 11, 2014 at 9:07 am
0 0 i
Rate This
http://lawtop20.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/can-football-supporters-challenge.html?spref=tw
This might be relevant to the debate on how the LNS verdict could be challenged. With great difficulty, I think is the answer.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
I think that that is kind of where I got to when I looked at this – although I have no knowledge whatsoever about European law etc – not sure what any issues we might have with the SFA/SPFL would have to do with Europe though really. Seems to me to be Scottish issues in Scotchland for Scottish people.