Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
Tommy the taxi driver can play Tommy the taxi driver!
Danish Pastry says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:48
From The Sunday Mail:
“The worry is that if links to Whyte are upheld then Green will be accused of lying to the SFA last summer in order to obtain a club license.
And an Ibrox source told MailSport: “There might be some things that ultimately we’d prefer not to hear but we need it all out in the open.””
_-
If illegally-registered players cannot suffer a back-dated de-registration or sanction, I can’t see the club licence being revoked or a season’s results being nullified by the football authorities. After all, as an offence, lying to the SFA in order to get a club license cannot be anywhere near as serious as a manager uttering an expletive during a match
______
Bit of agenda shifting from useless SFA – Don`t know how it works out legally, but CW in the mix hardly counts for a `going concern` or even a `minor success` as claimed. Was the sale `legal`with CW poss in on the assets? If it wasn`t legal should it go back to the creditors?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:57
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There is NO CHANCE of the SFA revoking Sevco’s membership. Even if it turns out Whyte is involved.
_____________________________________
If the conditions of the kangaroo-licence were breached, then there are perpetrators who need punished and victims who need redress.
The perpetrators are TRFC plain and simple.
The victims are spartans, and Peterhead or Queen’s Park, who will have lost out on playing at a higher level as a direct result of the licence being awarded unjustly, because of lies being told by someone at TRFC, and believed by someone at the SFA, through no fault of those at Peterhead/QP/Spartans.
TRFC fans will have lost out in the long term and deserve some sympathy, but they also gained in the short term, by having a team to support where there should by rights have been none, and they were supportive of those who lied to obtain the licence. The poor judgement they exercised makes them complicit – albeit to a limited extent – , and they should expect and accept punishment for their club.
So its difficult to see how SFA can retain any shred of credibility or pretence of authority unless they come down very heavily on TRFC. Punish the perpetrators. Compensate the victims. That’s how justice works Mr Regan! Its not a hard concept, and there are lots of books on this. Give us at TSFM a shout if you need help with any of the long words!
Unfortunately, since the SFA no longer has either a shred of credibility or any pretence of authority to start with, a fudged outcome that suits, rewards or assists TRFC to the detriment of others seems to be pretty much a guaranteed outcome! There are, after all, precedents.
And Scottish football will be the loser.
nixonwhytewashing says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:53
6 0 Rate This
angus1983 says: Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:22
“CM said “I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne.“Excellent. Another comedy name. straight from Sherwood Forest. It’s like “Once Upon A Time” on the telly”
And it gets even more surreal as the MSM gets all excited the about a “new sheriff in town”.
Craig Mather is a Nottingham based MD with a fellow director called Guy Gisborne…….strangely reminiscent of another sheriff.
Of course that Sheriff of Nottingham was ably assisted by henchman Guy of Gisbourne and their prime task was to “tax the many poor, to further enrich the few”.
Season ticket renewals coming up soon…..surely no parallels can be drawn between a historically dubious English folk tale…or can they?
——————
Funny thing about Craig Mather when looking at Companies House is that his sports business is very recent and he himself doesn’t seem to have wealth that even registers on the radar, never mind off it. What qualifies him for a position of CE at Ibrox? Another fat salary plus a bonus and he’ll be in a winner, of course. CH says that Simply Sports Management hasn’t yet filed accounts. Of course, it’s a new company but does anyone have access to the most recent risk score/accessment?
Congratulations to Glasgow Celtic Football Club. Champions in a season where events on the field have been wonderful not only for Celtic but for all the clubs in the top division. Almost.
Our game has been tarnished, in my opinion, by what can only be described as calamitous decision making by the governing authorities who need now to get a grip and revisit the notion of football as a sport and not a product.
PS. Always good to see the Jags up there. Congratulations to a fine young team. Therein lies the future of our game!
Philip Spicer (@BrooksBaba) says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:26
============================
New Rangers got into the SFL when they shouldn’t have, or at least there should have been some sort of process of clubs asking for the place and applications invited. Some form of decision making. There was no process, rangers were simply given the vacant slot.
New Rangers agreed to take on and pay the footballing debts of the old version, in spite of being a totally new company, with the original being liquidated and the debts for the most part written off.
That had to be part of some sort of agreement. It didn’t just happen without people discussing it and coming to an agreement.
Well done Celtic and Lenny 🙂 CFC 1 – SFA 0 ………… Wonder if anyone swore at the game today 😉
Congratulations to Celtic and Thistle for securing their respective leagues. An enjoyable season, in terms of what has happened on the pitch.
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 13:36
There are currently a couple of real possibilities which would effectively destroy new Rangers.
1, BDO decide that the whole sale was a sham, that Green and Whyte did it together and that they did it to get the assets for a fraction of their value.
2, The SFA establish (possibly from 1) that Green was working for or with Whyte and they lied in order to get the footballing licence.
Either of these could see the death of the new club, either by losing it’s assets or by losing it’s licence.
Green and Whyte are at the centre of both.
Dear Mainstream Scottish Media/football club chairmen/Judicial Authorities
Yet again, a summary, for your benefit, of the steps needed to save Scottish football:
1. Publish the 5 way agreement/people who implemented it resign
2. State the truth (The Rangers are not Rangers) – the law in a democratic society is not an inconvenient technicality- and don’t allow The Rangers to market themselves on any other basis
3. Listen to your “customers” and introduce a 16 team top league
4. Do not fasttrack The Rangers into the top league
5. Apply the law of the land and the rules of the game fairly, consistently and transparently to all clubs
Straightforward enough for you??
tick tock
Thanks
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 14:46
21 3 Rate This
Well done Celtic and Lenny CFC 1 – SFA 0 ………… Wonder if anyone swore at the game today
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Yea the SFA officials in attendance were heard swearing!
All banned – offices locked on Monday morning.
BTW Terry Butcher was also seen and heard swearing ?
There has been much talk particularly within the mainstream media who,as we know, with notable exceptions have solely concentrated on the Whyte/Green axis of ‘power’.
It seems to me that their approach is often cowardly.Like a pack of dogs they feed on the bodies once they are seen as fatally wounded.
The issue, always avoided, is the whole matter of the sale of Rangers and how it affected the football leagues. Of course within that is the perceived lack of due diligence undertaken by the SFA.
in order to see the bigger picture the key area of significance is the transaction undertaken by Murray to Whyte.
From that point the whole story in full unfolds,and perhaps then and only then will Scottish football feel ,to use a topical word,cleaner.
We watch and await the findings of Strathclyde’s finest,the BDO and the rest.
Senior ……….. @ 16:22
Now there’s a surprise eh wonder if vinny lunny’s switched his phone off 🙂
What a weekend for the City of Glasgow ,the two top clubs in the city win their respective leagues on the same weekend ,is this history.
McCoist: “What the club actually needs is to be totally cleansed.”
What he should have said: “What the club actually needs is to be totally fumigated, absolutely! ” 😉
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manager-ally-mccoist-believes-rangers-1845006
yourhavingalaugh says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 16:55
12 0 Rate This
What a weekend for the City of Glasgow ,the two top clubs in the city win their respective leagues on the same weekend ,is this history.
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It may even be a World Record! 😈
At least this post from rangersrumours shows that not all of the Bears are swallowing Comical Ally’s guff hook, line and sinker. No chance of him being heard among the rump of lemming-like and myopic TRFC fans though;
Ally uses the press like a spin doctor. He’s a master at coming out with statements right on cue after a flop to cover / detract from his flops.
Caught it late during Allys interview something along the lines of this club needs a total cleansing. If I heard this correctly it indicates to me that a total change of business plan and personell is on the horizon, again!
1.) Sounds more like he knows what’s been going on, get him to f//k
2.) Hope the cleansing includes Mccoist and the other 2 amigos.
3.) @1/ I think you are right mate. He should be asked some difficult questions. He backed whyte, he backed green, he has never criticized murray. Is he just looking after his job?
4.) Everyone of them know what’s going on at Ibrox, they know how much we have lost this year, they know who is really still in charge and they know who will still be there at the end of all this. Them.
I have nothing against Ally, Walter, Durrant etc I wish them well in their future lives, but I wish it just wasnt going to be in any capacity at Ibrox.
We should have never allowed anything but a fans takeover of our club, no matter who was going to be coming in? they were there for one reason, profit. Everything that has gone before will be again, if we don’t act now. i’m sorry that means a lot of hard decisions by us the fans that may not be easy to swallow?We have to boycott now. We have to clean out everyone who has been in either of the camps of Murray, Whyte or Green and that means Ally, Walter and co too. They in the end, have all been part of this mess no matter at what level.
We need to act now before the start of a long summer which could possibily again see our great club in financial problems. Two games to go and we can now show how powerful we really can be, boycott the last two games totally, this will make the powers that be take notice of what we can really do? otherwise let’s just keep going like lambs to the finicail slaughter for people who have their own intrests at their heart. They have all taken sums of money out our club this year that is obscene Whyte at least £720,000 same as others on the board and the football side are all overpaid from Ally down to JIg. It has to stop now.
Well CE
That post is an honest one,not much evidence of denial there from TRFC fans with a bit of honest insight.
StevieBC says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:01
McCoist: “What the club actually needs is to be totally cleansed.”
The bears in the den not happy.
This is one of the more printable comments:-
Exactly, more F*****g speculation and drama will come out of what Ally said’
Response:-
Ally is beginning to act like a pie.
Luis Suarez having dinner! 🙂
http://willhow.es/153j
Has jim traynor ‘walked away’ and what will happen to the ‘mystery investors’ surely they have to get out now? It really is getting very interesting and personally 🙂 I’m loving it 🙂 K..A..R..M..A I think it may be a busy week, don’t know how I’m going to fit in work, weans and housework this week along with keeping up with all the good news 😉
Good Evening.
I suspect– indeed I hope— that most if not all the posters and lurkers on here know that I am a Celtic fan. My affinity with the club spans familial affiliation, a love of the charitable roots of the club and the charitable potential of the club going forward, and a childhood and youth which saw me have fairly close contacts with Celtic at a time when they simply were among the best if they were not the best team in Europe!
However, being a west ender I also spent many a happy Saturday afternoon enjoying Firhill for Thrills and I am absolutely delighted for the staff, players and fans of Partick Thistle that they are back in the SPL– just thrilled to bits. I really hope Thistle can do well next Season as there is a club who were on the brink financially and thanks to a brilliant Save the Jags campaign they have not only survived but are hopefully now flourishing, Years after that campaign– No Thistle fan should forget the fantastic efforts of Alan Cowan and company in putting their shoulder to the wheel and steering the Jags out of a very dark place.
Now having said all that I want to specifically comment on a couple of posts above.
Whether as a Celtic fan or a Thistle fan I recall many great games against Clyde Football Club.
Included in that has to be the final game of the Lisbon Lions in 1971 but over and above that occasion I can recall several games against Clyde at Shawfield– one where Tommy Gemmell went in goal ( I think Ronnie Simpson had been sent off ) and another where Dixie Deans I think ran amok.
I remember Clyde with good players when they were regulars in the old first division and later I also recall going to social functions at Shawfield and thinking that it was a privilege just to be inside a top class clubs football stadium. Thiste – Clyde matches were always a treat at Firhill as well.
Accordingly I really hope that existing Clyde Supporters and the people of East Kilbride, Rutherglen, Cambuslang and the surrounding areas really get behind Clyde FC when the move and become EK Clyde FC. This is a great opportunity to establish a club close to its original roots and close to the roots of the former Third Lanark who are sadly missed.
The SFA should give every support to this initiative– and the greatest support is to ensure that each and every club is treated fairly and without favour, with respect and dignity, and with unflinching fairness throughout.
EK is of a size where local people will invest their time and money in a club, but only if people genuinely think that the structure within which their football clubs play is one which respects that support and commitment. I hope that both EK Clyde and the Maryhill Magyars really thrive in the future.
A Football club is also a community, a social club, and a society of friends– and should be encouraged at all levels.
There is an old TV advert which used to say that a Dog is not just for Christmas– well a football club is not just for a match day. So if you live out EK way, please support The Bully Wee when they come to your town– even if you are a Celt or a Ger or an Itinerant Arab or from any other club.
A football club on your doorstep is a great thing!
And certainly seems to be a sea change on RM wrt McCoist having over stayed his welcome due to ineffective tactics, failure to develop youth etc.
Dropping McCoist and replacing him with an ex-player would certainly save a ton of money.
But if there is another insolvency event looming does the club need to retain the not-so-cheeky chappy’s ‘services’ – to simply reinforce ‘continuation of the club and history’ under Sevco 2.0 ?
He could also make a magnanimous gesture and take a pay cut e.g. accept ‘only’ a GBP 350K salary to manage a full-time club in SFL2.
yourhavingalaugh says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 13:42
10 0 Rate This
Angus 1983
This poses another question as to the movie ,will it be animated,who could be cast for the voice overs ,this should be good,lets go,I’ll start ,Joe Pasquali to play Ally.
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Will Ferrell as Charles Green
John C Reilly as Ally McCoist
Steve Martin as Walter Smith
Michael Emerson as Craig Whyte
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:52
Brenda, we always fit it in. You know the old saying ‘tie a brush to my ar£e and I’ll sweep up as I go along!!’
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:52
Having said that the social will probably be on to me as my priorities for a while have been:
1 TSFM
2 Four weans
3 Full time job
4 Housework
5 Garden
6 Etc, etc……..
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:52
6 0 Rate This
Has jim traynor ‘walked away’ and what will happen to the ‘mystery investors’ surely they have to get out now? It really is getting very interesting and personally I’m loving it K..A..R..M..A I think it may be a busy week, don’t know how I’m going to fit in work, weans and housework this week along with keeping up with all the good news
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Judging from the comments of Mr McCoist who is now expressing some concern about his,ahem, warchest for next season it would appear that Mr Green’s policy of cost cutting is very much on the board agenda,despite his imminent departure.
Given the apparent necessity to trim costs it may be that the literary talents of Mr Traynor may no longer be deemed an essential requirement.
A new,new Rangers might choose to dispense with spin and go for a more transparent approach.Mr Traynor’s comments on the current state of the club would,of course, be sorely missed by all of us.
Until a post above reminded me, I had allowed the “Show us the deeds” part of John Brown’s legendary speech to overshadow his almost depressive statements about having no friends and being shunned. As others have postulated, I believe this is likely to mean that WS and AMcC were those who denied him. Can anyone remember if, since then, there have been any reported meetings/conversations between JB and the 2 legends? If not, might that confirm our views that Ally and Walter knew the truth but chose CG and RFC* over their friend. After all, even though JB disappeared for a while, it would surely be strange for such close friends not to still be friends and at least talk, wouldn’t it?
The CE says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:49
Luis Suarez having dinner! 🙂
http://willhow.es/153j
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Ivanovic apparently off to hospital to get a tetanus shot!
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
At the risk of being pedantic The Rangers were granted MEMBERSHIP of the SFA because there is no published criteria to stop a ONE OFF approval in SFA articles. Membership is granted at SFA discretion according to whatever criteria the SFA deem suitable and publish. If there is any published I could not find it.
A LICENCE is granted ANNUALLY according to a clearly defined process with clearly defined criteria which The Rangers could not meet last season which suggests the rules were ignored or a licence not even granted.
Last years licensing round was probably sacrificed under the 5 way agreement.
Being annual , the licensing round for next season begins 30th April by which time clubs need to submit evidence that they meet the criteria.
On top of the difficulty of proving they are financially sound enough to see through next season we now have an issue over security of tenure surrounding the stadium, with SFA being able to assure competing clubs that a fixture at Ibrox is not in jeopardy. What the msm should be asking the SFA is what will they do if licensing criteria are not met?
Are the SFA willing to put a division in lower league in jeopardy by admitting a club whose ability to fulfill their fixtures appears doubtful?
Membership should be dependent on a licence first being granted.
That CG lied to the SFA might mean a rethink on allowing membership to continue but the licencing process did not envisage asking an owner a question that he would lie in response to.
The SFA could revoke the membership at their discretion for being lied to and a licence could be denied for failure to fulfill the criteria.
The SFA though now appear to be a law unto themselves and can do as they please BUT risk compensation claims if they take a risk with league clubs money. That more than anything should give them pause to think
Rantinrobin 18:35
‘Given the apparent necessity to trim costs it may be that the literary talents of Mr Traynor may no longer be deemed an essential requirement.’
Aye, if you are looking to trim some fat from an organisation structure, then where better to start than Mr Traynor.
Great post Auldheid and the point about possible compensation is highly pertinent.The SFA are now in a very serious position in relation to TRFC,and like us they don’t know what is coming next.
Getting rid of McCoist is not an option. He’s on a rolling contract and they can’t afford to pay him off. Green was trying to force him out with his usual tactics but he fell first.
BRTH, I think both those Clyde Celtic games were in 1971. Did Simpson not dislocate his shoulder at so Gemmell took over? Simpson then led Celtic out at the end of the season but didn’t actually play in the game as his career was over.
Ally’s latest statement reminded me of an old story when I lived in London.
There was an old character that I will refer to only by his nickname, ‘Cockney.’ He was Irish, but
rapidly started trying to speak with a London accent after arriving in the smoke.
The ‘Cockney’ was mocked by the Irish and others for his pathetic attempts to be English and
was labelled as the dirtiest dosser in North London.
The story goes that the ‘Cockney’ was taken into the dry out clinic to get him off the booze and
get him ‘cleansed.’
According to legend, two nurses were scrubbing him in a bath and after half an hour they discovered an old vest!!!
Best be careful with the Ibrox cleansing then Ally. We may unearth a lot more unsavoury items than the “Cockney’s” old vest!
therampantbaron
Yes the game where the Lions last took to the field was certainly ’71 and the game where Simpson had the dislocated shoulder would obviously be before that.
I know about the game where Ronnie injured his shoulder, but deep in my mind was a game at Shawfield where he was being harassed by the Clyde centre forward so at a kick out he swung his leg at the ball and after he had hit it the leg kept on going until it smacked the centre forward’s backside!
Maybe that was the same game that he went off injured- I can’t remember– It was sufficiently long ago for me completely wrong!
OT but SSN seem to be getting the message 🙂 when discussing Celtic’s 44th league title 🙂 🙂 🙂 they had oldco at 54 ( not 55 as being claimed )
Jean your list of priorities is on the button 🙂 I only have 3 children, but hubby counts as the big wean.
I thought this sounded familiar. In the current issue of the excellent BACKPASS magazine, in an article about the life of Ally MacLeod, it mentions Ronnie Simpson injuring his shoulder, diving to save an Alex Ingram header against Ayr United in a League Cup semi final in 1969 and it effectively ending his career.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 19:11
therampantbaron
Yes the game where the Lions last took to the field was certainly ’71 and the game where Simpson had the dislocated shoulder would obviously be before that.
I know about the game where Ronnie injured his shoulder, but deep in my mind was a game at Shawfield where he was being harassed by the Clyde centre forward so at a kick out he swung his leg at the ball and after he had hit it the leg kept on going until it smacked the centre forward’s backside!
Maybe that was the same game that he went off injured- I can’t remember– It was sufficiently long ago for me completely wrong!
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Ronnie Simpson was injured playing against Clyde at Shawfield.I remember Tommy Gemmell replacing him in goal.
IIRC I think he played again against Ayr Utd in the cup(maybe LC) at Hampden but aggravated his injury.He came out for the warm up at the Lions last game against Clyde but Evan Williams took over for the game itself.,I think!.
bobferris70 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 19:35
I thought this sounded familiar. In the current issue of the excellent BACKPASS magazine, in an article about the life of Ally MacLeod, it mentions Ronnie Simpson injuring his shoulder, diving to save an Alex Ingram header against Ayr United in a League Cup semi final in 1969 and it effectively ending his career.
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Bob,
if your dates are correct then maybe I’ve got the games the wrong way round.I was also at the Ayr Utd game but it’s a long time ago.I’d only have been about 11 at the time 😆
Tom English’ Scotsman quote on Mather:
“There is further intrigue in the appointment of Green’s successor. Mather is now deemed to be the most likely choice. The 43-year-old was courted by Green last summer and invested £1m in the club, calling it the first emotional investment he had ever made in business. He owns a packaging company – £17m turnover according to his website – and a sports-based management company called Simply Sport Management. The website says he has worked all over the world and is also owner of a “successful horse-racing business with the assistance of former advisers of Sheikh Mohammed”.
Little is known about Mather’s horseracing business but it appears small-time. The latest annual accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 30 April 2012 reported “cash at bank” of £27,244, liabilities worth £232,666 and assets worth £218,750, leaving a negative net worth £13,916.”
Sounds as though TE’s bull***t radar is on high alert this time.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-mather-favourite-to-takeover-from-green-1-2904080
http://www.scottishleague.net/archive/archive117.htm
From the above link, regarding Ronnie Simpson-
“But all careers have to end sometime and Simpson’s came to a finish in 1969-70. John Fallon and Evan Williams disputed the goalkeeping place but Simpson made two more appearances to ring down the curtain. On October 4th 1969 he said his goodbyes to the Parkhead fans in a 7-1 win over Raith Rovers and a week later, on October 11th, played his final game for Celtic, away to Airdrie. Fittingly, he kept a clean sheet as Celtic won 2-0.
It was also his 39th birthday. And after a quarter of a century and almost 800 games it was time, at last, to call it a day.
Simpson retired at the end of the season and after a spell coaching and scouting for the Parkhead club took over as manager at Hamilton in October 1971. Management wasn’t his style though and he left after less than a year. Later, he became a member of the Pools Panel, sitting in judgment on postponed matches.
We should also debunk the second great Simpson myth – that he came back for one last game as the Lisbon Lions played together for the final time. While it’s true that Jock Stein announced the Lions last match would be against Clyde in May 1971 and that game marked the end of their Celtic careers for several of the side, Ronnie Simpson had already been retired a year.”
Just from memory (so totally unreliable by now!), he dislocated his shoulder against Ayr Utd in 68, and didn’t play very often after that.
It’s possible both these games were around 1969 as by 1970,Evan Williams was the regular goalie,including playing in the 1970 EC Final.Simpson appearing at the lions last game was maybe just a cameo role as he had effectively retired by then.
StevieBC says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:56
But if there is another insolvency event looming does the club need to retain the not-so-cheeky chappy’s ‘services’ – to simply reinforce ‘continuation of the club and history’ under Sevco 2.0 ?
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I think they probably do, although if his position becomes untenable I imagine Mr Walter will come more to the fore.
As for the bears becoming disgruntled – they always do when they don’t win at least 5 out of every 6 games. Nothing new there.
I have many fond memories of Clyde at Shawfield in the 50’s and 60’s, and less fond memories of living in Cumbernauld in the early 70’s, so I have no problem at all with the move to East Kilbride, a lot closer to their traditional fan base, so maybe combining lower rent with larger crowds. However I definitely do not like the name change to EK Clyde. Why the change? Probably it’s a condition of the low rent deal, and I know that a majority of the fans voted for it, but I still do not like a club with Clyde’s proud history voluntarily changing their name, especially for commercial reasons. Which makes me a grumpy old dinosaur, I know, I’ve been told often enough.
Strange but true.
The Chairman of the Board of Octopus Investments is a Mr Murray Steele.
Samsara Ticketus.
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 19:33
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Don’t get too excited just yet, they only count the “top level” titles when talking about the 44 or 54.
Brenda says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 19:33
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Even if you were talking about all league titles and not the top one Rangers did not win a league this year.
They won the lowest division of a league.
There were 2 league winners in Scottish senior football. Partick Thistle are the SFL champions and Celtic are the SPL champions.
Hence Partick Thistle moving up to the top league.
The old club won 54 top league titles, unfortunately several of those are tainted as they were based on spending money they didn’t actually have and playing players who weren’t registered properly.
The usual MSM mischief today, asking Celtic fans if they missed Rangers/if the title didn’t mean as much etc.
For those caught unexpectedly and struggling to find the right words (I expect the same question to be asked many times in years to come), the correct., indeed the only, answer is:-
“Rangers died in 2012. We can only deal with the present and the future, we cannot change the past.”
BRTH
Ronnie Simpson got injured twice at Shawfield.
The first was at a Neerday Match in 1968 after a collision with big Dick Staite. Two days later, my good pal John Fallon replaced him in goal against Rangers at CP. John will thank me for saying nothing more than, “the rest is history” 🙂
He got injured again in a 1969 0-0 Scottish Cup draw against Clyde – again at Shawfield (the first incidence of the shoulder injury which finished his career).
The new Rangers team would not have competed in the SFL1 this years, far less the SPL.
They are an irrelevance as far as the SPL and who won it are concerned.
They would probably have been relegated, if I remember correctly Dundee saw Morton off fairly easily earlier in the season.
As a Celtic fan, I know this is heresy, but I would not be too unhappy if Hibs won the Scottish Cup. I am thinking of the fact that for the second year in a row, the trophies would go to three different teams, with five teams in all having success over that two years of Armageddon.
I am also mindful of a Hibs Scottish cup win in 1887 being the actual inspiration for the birth of Celtic.
However, I still hope Celtic win it 🙂
Clyde stuff so skip if not of interest-
The proposed change to ek CLYDE is a non-negotiable condition of the proposed deal with East Kilbride Community Trust. It’s already been negotiated back from East Kilbride Clyde. Nothing has been agreed yet, other than the members giving the board a mandate to further negotiations. The move is largely about survival and being able to compete in the senior leagues, not about moving from one place to another because there might be more fans there. We can’t make a penny from Broadwood other than admission and a tiny shop. We have limited lets on the pitch. EK could give us a virtually free rental agreement and potential for a social club and catering to provide income (also guaranteed training facilities from next season). Both organisations would operate very much as part of the community (Clyde is already a Community Interest Company). Nothing certain yet but it’s now a possibility. It’s what we get for having a football club named after a meandering river, rather than any town.
Rabo
I wouldn’t disagree with you sentiment, evrybody should have their day
It seems a quiet news evening on TSFM and several posters appear to be quite reflective, so I thought I’d post the OP on a thread started on the Hearts Kickback message board earlier today, following on from Celtic completing the formality of securing the SPL title.
I don’t agree 100% with the OP’s thoughts on the major factor behind this “record”, although it is certainly a contributory factor.
A subsequent post also caught my eye, not because it is anti-Celtic in tone, but makes reference to a quote by Peter Lawwell (don’t know where it came from), where it suggests that he recognises that the duopoly may well have “destroyed” competition” in Scottish football.
Watching Sportscene tonight and in Lennon interview I spot a poster I’ve missed previously about Celtic always being Celtic. A very unsubtle dig at you know who ! Yeh or neh
ianjs says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:48
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StevieBC says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:01
Ally is beginning to act like a pie.
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Well, we are what we eat!
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 17:54
First of all , as a first time poster I would like to thank every one associated with this blog and its predecessor for keeping informed ,entertained and educated over the past year .
As for the Clyde moving to EastKilbride ,I think it makes more sense for reasons already outlined on here (despite its name change I think it will always be referred to as Clyde).
There were a lot of Clyde supporters in EastKiIlbide when I was growing up in the town ,most of whom were lost to the game when they were evicted from Shawfield .
There was a campaign in the 80,s to move Clyde up the hill which never really got off the ground due to opposition from the then Development Corporation and the local district council .
When they privatised the Development corporation in the 90s as a parting present, the councilors were given the choice of a Stadium or a pond .The coonciilors chose the pond of course .
The people behind the move have already built a first class training facility (K Park)and there is a planning application for a Stadium and full sized indoor pitch in the offing .
Hundreds of kids are already enrolled in coaching courses, my lad included They are also forging ties with all the local Primary schools .I think they will do well.
I did a straw poll in the Pub a couple of weeks ago amongst my drinking Buddies , everyone of us have stated our intention to go along and watch .I for one will definitely be there .
briggsbhoy says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:37
They’ve been using that on adverts, including radio, for most of season. Guess who get annoyed at it, even complaining about it!?
I must admit I did not see the detail behind the 8-8-8 , only that the top teams were giving up some money to help the teams in the lower leagues. If it is true that Celtic were willing to only give up £315K but the second placed team must give up £682,000, well that is as crazy a suggestion as I have heard to date.
I hope this is wrong, if not, I would be extremely disappointed. If there is one good thing to come out of this whole saga, it is that I understand better the plight of the smaller clubs.
madbhoy24941 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:49
The plight of us wee teams is demonstrated by another stat I heard yesterday was that Celtic’s youth development budget is more than Motherwell’s first team budget!! The fact that we took it down to 4 games to go is either huge credit to us, or suggests Celtic took it easy at times, depending on your point of view I suppose
easyJambo says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:23
So is it OK if we all start copying and pasting posts from our own club’s supporters forums.
I can find some anti-Hearts stuff if you want.
I’d rather not though, I thought this blog was supposed to be something different from that.
An enjoyable season draws to it’s conclusion. The only real outstanding match left being the Cup Final. A Green final (how ironic), with two young managers and two young teams. I wish both teams well for an injury free match which will hopefully be enjoyed in a friendly atmosphere, Personally I do not care who actually wins, winning is NOT everything, taking part is.
Over at Ibrox life goes on, or does it. In reference to earlier genuine (I think) concerns about Mr Traynor’s future. It really is “life Jim, but not as we know it”.
The analogy often mentioned and ultimately proven correct on the RTC blog was of the carcass of the old club being circled by vultures, grabbing the spoils and taking off. This scenario was predicted by some learned bloggers, and scoffed at by the media who even given the evidence, refused to smell the coffee, or for that matter the blood.
Vultures 1,(Murray).. 2,(Whyte) and 3 (Green) have taken what their respective bellies could hold and now watch from a distant rooftop. The smaller scavengers (Mather included) now must decide if it is safe to approach the feeding frenzy which will now ensue. Investors, large and small will wonder how only four months ago they could have been suckered by the third vulture to invest in this pup. Walking away now would seem the very best option.
The politics of the mess, the who knew what and when, are still up for discussion. Did Ally know what was going on around him? I for one would be surprised if he did not. Did the Cardigan know what he was getting into ? Again I would be astonished if he didn’t. And these two alas for TRFC fans are the ones being portrayed as “Rangers men”. They have been more culpable in the clubs demise than any of the vultures. They have been complicit in the crime by their silence and are now powerless bystanders, afraid of the truth, and not considered relevant by the scavengers.
I myself took John Brown to be only a loudmouth, trying to impress a certain section of the clubs fanbase. It now looks as though he showed more integrity than most.
I look forward to another unpredictable week………….with predictable consequences.
Auldheid says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 18:50
re: Rangers licencing
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Good piece and it made me wonder. Could Green’s hurried departure be directly linked to a fear at Ibrox that porkies were told to the SFA last year and by Green’s departure from the scene they can wash their hands of any culpability just as they have done on the race issue – deemed to be a ‘personal’ one between the SFA and Green.
I would normally not put forward such a ludicrous suggestion but I truly believe the SFA are capable of anything if it suits their purpose and I think that often that purpose doesn’t serve the greater good of Scottish football.
I accept that the dropping share price might have forced the secrete ‘owners’ of Rangers to instruct Green to walk away because their only interest is making money and some of them were starting to lose money the way things were going.
But this then leads to a situation whereby Malcolm Murray might be able to prevent the secret cabal’s appointee from being installed as CEO through winning the Board vote. But I think it highly unlikely he would win a shareholder voter at the agm later in the year because the rangers shareholding is structured in such a way as to prevent any single shareholder having a majority as in Murray of old.
The Bears saw this as a great strength but it’s actually a terrible weakness because only the hidden owners know who each other is and they will be voting in a bloc which I think will be impossible to beat. So who knows what lies ahead. One thing’s for sure is that the spivs know exactly what the fleecing blueprint is and they will be steadily putting things in place to maximise profit while others get all caught-up in smoke and mirror diversions.
paranoidmotherwellfan says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:57
madbhoy24941 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:49
The plight of us wee teams is demonstrated by another stat I heard yesterday was that Celtic’s youth development budget is more than Motherwell’s first team budget!! The fact that we took it down to 4 games to go is either huge credit to us, or suggests Celtic took it easy at times, depending on your point of view I suppose
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Possibly Celtic’s attention was drawn elsewhere on occasion 🙂
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 23:05
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easyJambo says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:23
So is it OK if we all start copying and pasting posts from our own club’s supporters forums.
I can find some anti-Hearts stuff if you want.
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Haven’t you noticed the amount of stuff copied and pasted from KDS both here and on RTC? Personally, I welcome these insights into the thinking amongst the supporters of other clubs, the more the better.
Chip
So is it OK if we all start copying and pasting posts from our own club’s supporters forums.
I can find some anti-Hearts stuff if you want.
I’d rather not though, I thought this blog was supposed to be something different from that.
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Oh the irony !
ecobhoy says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 23:07
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Auldheid says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 18:50
re: Rangers licencing
__________________________________
You are right. And about the only thing that could realistically get in the way of the cabals plans and bring them to heel would be the SFA stepping up and pulling the licence, thereby cutting them off from their ongoing source of revenue, before they had milked it dry completely.
Which leads me into some idle speculation…
… what if the hypothetical cabal controlling 51% of RIFC had something on the SFA so serious that it threatened its very existence, or at least was seriously detrimental to the interests of those in a position of power or influence there? Something that … like you say Auldheid could lead to litigation that the organisation could not withstand? Or e.g. could lead to criminal prosecution of its officers?
This is one of many possible explanations for the SFAs toothlessness in the face of all things TRFC, but an interesting one in that it does not rely on incompetence, buffoonery or simple prejudice by the SFA to explain the events as they have unfolded. The technical term for this type of abuse/breakdown of governance is ‘regulatory capture’.
This is – I stress idle speculation, but absence of proof is not proof of absence!
Of course the SFA could very easily produce the required proof of absence, by simply opening up its rule book, casting its eye over the articles of association therein, and then requiring all clubs including TRFC to comply with the items therein, without fear or favour, when deciding whether to grant or withhold a licence, and demanding FPP criteria are applied with in a similar manner.
How they act. or fail to act over the coming period will speak volumes, I think. If we don’t know the answers already, that is!
madbhoy24941 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:49
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I must admit I did not see the detail behind the 8-8-8 , only that the top teams were giving up some money to help the teams in the lower leagues. If it is true that Celtic were willing to only give up £315K but the second placed team must give up £682,000, well that is as crazy a suggestion as I have heard to date.
I hope this is wrong, if not, I would be extremely disappointed. If there is one good thing to come out of this whole saga, it is that I understand better the plight of the smaller clubs.
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Those figures are about in line with what I have seen madbhoy, I believe they are true.
As a fan of a diddy team I’d agree its a bit disappointing but I’ll give some credit in that its still a small chunk of change to see redistributed.
I’d say the disparity in prize money between 2nd and 3rd places was particularly unfair so it is quite correct that a good chunk comes from that 2nd position so the prize money is more evenly spread.
What is a little frustrating though is that the proposal was for prize money from 3-12 to be reduced ever so slightly as well so that more could go down to the teams below the SPL. Now I’m all for supporting those teams but with such a huge chunk of money going to 1 and 2 in the SPL i think most of the boost for lower teams could have been funded from there – ie reducing that 1st place prize by another couple of hundred thousand.
In a league where the teams were fairly competitive financially I think a nice big prize for coming top would be really justified but in a league like the SPL where there were only really 2 candidates for first place and their financial strength was far beyond the reach of any plucky challenger there is really no justification for making the prize money so top heavy.
In simple terms Celtic (or old Ranges when they existed) could easily have done without half of the SPL prize money they got and this would have been small beer to them but would have greatly helped the teams below try to be competitive in some way. The money wouldn’t have transformed any of the over teams overnight but would have had some effect over tme particularly if you think of the punitive impact of this top heavy distribution over 15 years.
“or old Ranges when they existed…..”
Oh dear. Let the cooker puns commence.
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 23:05
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easyJambo says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:23
So is it OK if we all start copying and pasting posts from our own club’s supporters forums.
I can find some anti-Hearts stuff if you want.
I’d rather not though, I thought this blog was supposed to be something different from that.
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Sorry this is just plain wrong chipm0nk.
vforvernacular says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 23:55
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In what way.
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 23:56
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Its an overreaction and unfair IMO.
There are plenty of things on this forum posted from various supporters forums and for various different reasons, there are also plenty of things posted which are critical of various clubs. I see no reason why some clubs would be fair game for discussion and others would not.
Must be one of the few times I’ve seen something from a Hearts forum reposted here, there are things from Celtic and Rangers forums posted on a daily basis (for different reasons perhaps),
If you still stand by the original remark, so be it I’ve no interest in an argument.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 21:55
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No need for any apology or for anyone to skip over this sort of stuff. I’ve found the Clyde move to EK story probably the most interesting posts of the day today. Thanks to all who added to that thread. Learned a bit about the the old Clyde and the new. Cheers.
madbhoy24941 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:49
If it is true that Celtic were willing to only give up £315K but the second placed team must give up £682,000, well that is as crazy a suggestion as I have heard to date.
I hope this is wrong, if not, I would be extremely disappointed. If there is one good thing to come out of this whole saga, it is that I understand better the plight of the smaller clubs.
================================================
It’s a point I have made a couple of times on this board, and funny enough you bhoys are very quiet on the subject. I’m sick to death of hearing that Celtic were making sacrifices for the good of Scottish football, when in reality, they were offering to give up very little.
Second place was mostly funding the redistribution of prize money.
Were you really unaware what Celtic’s “concessions” was on the overall package that the clubs were voting on?
I agree with Easyjambo’s copied posts. It really is time for all other Scottish SPL club’s to force the change of voting to 9-3 or 8-4, then for a fairer redistribution of prize money.
Top of my list would be Champions League. As this is the only source of decent funding available in Scottish football due to the p*ss poor Sky deal, I would commandeer 50% of CL cash to be redistributed to ALL clubs for their youth development setups. Having just one of two Old Firm clubs each year having access to this funding is creating and perpertuating the competitive gulf.
Deep down, Celtic really doesn’t give a flying f*ck about Scottish football and would dump us for the EPL or some transatlantic diddies league in a second.
And in a few years time, when Celtic’s historical business partners The Rangers (or will that be “The” The Rangers by then) get back to the top flight, if changes haven’t been made by that point, then Scottish football is well and truly “armageddoned”.
easyJambo says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 22:23
Cracking post.
I knew the re-distribution money was to be found by reducing the 2nd place prize money, but I didn’t realize it was only for three years.
It really does seem that most SPL clubs (certainly Celtic, definitely Hearts and Aberdeen and probably everyone else who voted yes in last week’s vote) have hitched their wagons to the need to get a blue Glasgow team back and competing with Celtic.
How are we supposed to fix football in this country when the teams with the best chance of challenging the current broken system are determined to fix up the top two spots for other teams and then give them all the prize money too?
As a Dons fan, I have this crazy image in my head of a scenario in three of four years time where Stewart Milne goes into the Aberdeen dressing room on the final day of the season. It a match against Sevco (or son of Sevco – whatever) and either could finish second. Milne then instructs his team to loose because there’s a TV contract to negotiate and next year and Aberdeen will get more money if Sevco are seen to be competitive with Celtic, than by finishing second themselves. Of course this is highly unlikely. Milne’s legacy at Aberdeen will probably be to get them relegated before that can happen.
I know that sounds far-fetched, but how big a leap is it to go from what the SFA, the SPL, many club chairmen and the MSM are already shouting from the rooftops in the papers and in the boardrooms, to implementing it on the pitch? In a way, it would be more honest than the financially rigged game we have now.