Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02
TRFC have a serious problem now.
If they appoint a former RFC man, it will be obvious to even the most ardent bears fan that the appointment has been made just to generate season tickets.
They therefore need a serious businessperson,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nope
The real situation in my view is this
TRFC, like RIFC is firmly in the grip of Spivs
Their aim is to milk TRFC dry then sell on to some other bunch of Spivs who have come up with yet another wheeze to milk the gullible
There is only one worry preventing a ST booosting figurehead being appointed as CEO
And that is an announcement from AIM that RIFC shares are suspended pending an investigation into Worthingtons claim to the assets that formed the basis of the IPO
You can be sure that if a figurehead is appointed it signifies that Murray has informally persuaded AIM to hold off any investigation
Any other appointment is guranteed to be a Spiv front man like all the rest (ex Murray and Cardigan) since the vast majorirty of shares are held by Spivs If that happens irs only a matter of time before AIM step in
TRFC are doomed to sail round and round the City being milkd by anybody and everybody looking for a quick buck
DRs Keith Jackson – Spelt it out today & really confounded my MSM expectations & generalisations. Ditto the STV youngster asking straightforward questions politely but focussed. Ditto the Heralds Martin Williams and Richard Wilson this morning efficiently informative piece. I don`t know if any of these guys have ibrox leanings or not but somehow don`t think that foursome – at least – are going for a three in a row duping title. More importantly the PR media management campaigns to date – effectively paid for by their supporters – if anything to go by some of my friends and neighbours has left said supporters [ yes there are many decent types] confused, split, angry and demanding meaningful straightforward explanations – not the contrived PR wordspeak – or audience pleasing rhetoric from their alleged fan leaders. More and more understand they are being systemically ripped off.
Let’s see what transpires overnight in the Sundays/ through the week. Their [Rangers] position is more parlous than many believe and could [aka v possible] now rapidly spiral. Timing critical I believe. The next week could be pivotal for their future and now is the time for the MSM to tell it as it is. The MSM has a simple choice – continue the PR game in support of the valueless spivs – or relate real free and fair substantive news for [all] supporters [aka their readership].
There`s a huge mess brewing – no good hiding it – won’t do anyone any good in the long run
Now that Clyde are moving to East Kilbride and the tribute act are soon to be evicted,could there be another name change in the pipeline,The Cumbernauld Rangers International Football Club? Just wondering like.
Good evening after a few beers down the pub.
Paul Murray stated on more than one occasion tonight the only people he would trust are Walter Smith and Malcolm Murray. I make no apologies for once again saying if the starting point is ‘real’ Rangers men are beyond reproach, then we might as well end Scottish football altogether.
Sorry, just to clarify. I was referring to Paul Murray on Sportsound Extra – I was not speaking to him in the pub 🙂 Thank heavens BTW.
Why did Whyte/Worthington not have a cease and desist notice served prior to today’s game, given that we have been led to believe he is out for revenge>
From Pie and Bovril;
Poll: In your opinion (363 member(s) have cast votes)
Were St Mirren and Ross County right to vote as they did?
Yes (265 votes [82.81%])
No (55 votes [17.19%])
———————————————————————————————————————
As the Articles of Association have revealed, well done to Roy MacGregor and Stewart Gilmour for stopping this car crash of a plan being put through. I wouldn’t put it past the Donkey to base an entire league structure on a potential sponsorship deal. Anyone who was for this proposal should think about booking themselves in for a lobotomy.
What I would like to know is how and why it was attached to consensual and sensible proposals (pyramid, play-off’s, ect) that everyone agreed on?
dreddybhoy says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:05
Why did Whyte/Worthington not have a cease and desist notice served prior to today’s game, given that we have been led to believe he is out for revenge>
————
Maybe to give some people(friends and co conspirators sorry associates) time to dump their shares any make their promised profit,
before he makes his next move 🙂 WHO KNOWS?
One person who must be delighted with Charles’s departure is the Dog Whistler Alistair McCoist. If CG’s departure hadn’t been the big story of the day some people might have noticed that Alistair had again contrived to lose to team with a budget in all likelihood at least 50 times less than what he has to play with.
Break open the warchest!
If AMcC cared about TRFC at least half as much as he proclaims, he would resign his position ASAP.
PS – Have The Cowboys e-mailed their disgust at the ousting of CG? 🙂
previouslyknownassnowdog says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:47
Now that Clyde are moving to East Kilbride and the tribute act are soon to be evicted,could there be another name change in the pipeline,The Cumbernauld Rangers International Football Club?
That would please “The Bhoys from Croy” !
Meanwhile, CO knows exactly what the plan is and what his role as the SFA facilitator is.
The CE says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:22
Anyone who was for this proposal should think about booking themselves in for a lobotomy.
=====================================
I have repeatedly stood up for people’s right to express their opinion, and for your club and it’s board to reject a proposal which they considered not in their own best interests. That is how democracy works and they did not have to justify how they voted.
I lauded your support giving Mr Gilmour a standing ovation at yesterdays home game, and the fact that the support and the board agreeing with each other and standing as one.
That comment however is out of order. That is not freedom of expression, that is simply insulting. I realise it won’t mean squat to you, but you really have gone down in my estimation.
Re Sevco’s search for a new CEO.
They will no doubt make a thorough search of the pool of bottom feaders that produced Whyte and Green and …………………. well you name them .
Chairman Murray .. a well respected uk busness man with a proven track record in ……..eh…eh eh ……how long is he gonna stick around. He.s got respectable business friends and a reputation to think off,
Donald Findlay – surprisingly enough – thinks a good Rangers man with an understanding of the Club and it’s traditions should get the job.
The new Sevco CEO will be like a man sitting on a barrell of rotten fish in the market place and trying to sell Tuna/Mayonnaise sandwiches .”Rotten fish Sir ………..naw nothing to do with me………………………………. £350 Sir……….and No surrender Brother !!!!
The CE says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:22
10
4
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From Pie and Bovril;
Poll: In your opinion (363 member(s) have cast votes)
Were St Mirren and Ross County right to vote as they did?
Yes (265 votes [82.81%])
No (55 votes [17.19%])
______________________
Interesting chat in the pub tonight among Caley fans. Idle speculation around why Ross.Co vetoed the change. All involved were Season Ticket holders. Consensus was actally reached: I share for information only, without prejudice.
(a)Had propsals gone ahead, fans would have had to buy season tickets without even knowing which teams they were playing for part of the season. Not welcomed. Deemed presumptious by clubs and league authorities.
(b) Had the proposed rules been instigated this year on the timescales envisaged, Ross Co would have been fighting a relegation battle. That same team are currently challenging for Europe, though? and rightly so, it was reckoned.
Suggested to all present that too many anomalies are thrown up by the proposed set up, and it hasn’t been thought through well enough. Ross Co entitled to vote the way they did on the strength of this measure alone.
(c) We all deplored TRFC shenanigans. Green had no friends in this company. Alot of sympathy for the fans, but bottom line, the ‘club/institution’ can go to ‘heck’ and should probably have its licence revoked.
(d) SPL are mercenary bar stewards taking fans for granted. (Making Killie fans travel 12 hour round trip on for a wet wednesday evening, to suit telly, and then going up against Champions league???)
(e) SFA… simply corrupt, lacking cojones, or both? Discuss…
(f) Notwithsatnding (c) above, 14,14,14, set up is, nevertheless probably best suggestion to date.
(g) Most of the other aspects of the proposed reconstruction would have been very welcome.
(h) On balance, we decided Ross Co had probably done us a favour. (However, no compulsion to return said favour was forthcoming!)
Bar closed.
Meeting adjourned amid cries of ‘you’re my best mate’ and ‘thur aal bazads, the lot of ’em.
chipm0nk says:
Apologies chip,
You’re right the lobotomy remark my have been in poor taste, it was a clumsy attempt at an analogy for ‘getting your head read’, thanks for correcting me.
I haven’t expressed myself very articulately, but I was just attempting to sarcastically convey my amazement that anybody could support 8-8-8.
Despite the huge crash boom bang surrounding Green’s departure, a point, well made by BRTH today is that without a shadow of a doubt, Green is not the main man in this subterfuge.
Therefore despite Green going, whoever IS the main man is still pulling all the levers. And contrary to the MSM insistence that things are okay now that he is gone (like they did with CW before him), whatever damage Green or Whyte may have expected to cause to Scottish football and Rangers is still being done.
Until the dodgy dealings which began many years before Whyte ever came on the scene are rooted out completely, our national game is in grave danger of being killed stone dead.
To that end, and no matter to what detail you subscribe, there is no doubt at all that the SFA, rightly or wrongly (okay, rightly), are regarded as being totally corrupt. For any business, that public view of the regulatory body would be serious. Added to the Rangers shenanigans, the total disregard for sporting integrity – and the current economic pressures – there is in fact a real prospect of Armageddon.
The footballers and the fans have done their bit with honour this year. The players have provided great entertainment and drama, and the fans have voted with their feet by turning up in increased numbers. They are being let down by greed, corruption, stupidity and lazy journalism. The authorities have in fact managed to turn this silk purse into a sow’s ear by failing to find a sponsor for the SPL, which has been one the most competitive tourneys for years.
In football terms, the idiom “banana republic” could have been invented just for us.
resin_lab_dog says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 00:59
I am in complete agreement from (a)-(h),
And I know how hard it is to get a bunch of ST holders to agree on anything! 🙂
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-john-brown-warns-of-further-turmoil-1-2904085
madbhoy24941 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 21:49
33 3 Rate This
Just heard from a cast iron source within The SPL that there WILL be a Glasgow Derby next season!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This’ll be good news for the SPL.
(Do you see what I did there? 😀 )
The CE says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 02:11
4 0 Rate This
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-john-brown-warns-of-further-turmoil-1-2904085
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“It was going to happen anyway,” Brown told reporters. “You are journalists, if you do your job properly you would find that out. It is going to be interesting. I am not surprised because I knew what was going on but I am trying to get a job at Dundee.”
I’m really warming to John Brown.
Here’s a thought.
Do you remember last year when we all laughed as we watched the Youtube clips of him giving it laldy on the Ibrox steps?
“Is he really the best person they can find to stand up for the Rangers support?” we all thought.
What if he really was?
On the bright side
`Just call them Rangers very own Three Musketeers – and no need for d’Artagnan.`
After deleting prior posts – he`ll need to delete the rest of it – there is a God 😉
It was as laughable as it was disturbing yesterday to hear Chick Young advise that Rangers need someone who will give the club their traditional dignity back. I’ve never quite understood the obsession with dignity down Ibrox way as I’ve always viewed life as a cross section of different types no matter where you go. The notion that absolute dignity is somehow genetically installed in people the moment they become Rangers orientated hints in my opinion to the continued notion of superiority over all others. Chick Young went on to inform us that the dignity required was that of a Struth, Symon, Waddell, Wallace, and of course ‘Walter’. If Young believes the type of operation some of those names maintained represents dignity, then God help us all.
The CE says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 01:09
—————————————
CE, I am not sure anyone really wanted the 8-8-8, I think it was more a fact they wanted change. They naturally assumed part of that change should be configuration of the leagues and divisions.
In the absence of another option (I believe lots were discussed over a period of time), a lot of us were willing to give it a chance.
On reflection, we may have dogged a bullet because the actual changes most are looking for is nothing to do with “meaningless” games, it is more about introducing a structure that can be trusted and that will eventually lead to a creditable challenge for the top title.
Everyone was in agreement that more funds had to be filtered down; most believed one league body would be better, most wanted a pyramid system etc… So the 8-8-8 was only a part of the bigger picture so that is why some were in favour even though it was not a great structure.
So I don’t believe anyone needs a lobotomy, well at least not for considering this proposal.
Where is Mr Traynor? Unusually quiet.
I have just been catching up on some of the discussions from yesterday on the radio – I am 8 hours ahead of the UK but ironically only catch up a day later….
It seems to me that what the Rangers board decided in having an “independent examination and report” is in real danger of being turned into some sort of quasi-official or quasi-judicial investigation.
Already I have heard this process being referred to several times in almost hushed tones as an “independent commission”.
This latest nonsense must not be allowed to happen. This is clearly an internal process by Rangers which should have no bearing whatsoever on any actions that need to be taken by others outside of Rangers.
What the hell are the SFA doing in all of this? One week on from some pretty damning evidence that Rangers look almost certain, in a quite deliberate and calculated manner, to have deceived the SFA to obtain a licence, SFL to have obtained membership and god only knows what else? How the hell can this 5 way agreement still now remain “secret” and why the hell is no-one, and I mean no-one screaming from the rooftops about the scandal of this secret document? It seems just to be accepted that it is a secret and that is that?
Maybe I am missing something but I am sure that all I have heard from the SFA was some lame tripe about writing to Charlie for “clarification”. So what now that the bold Charlie has done a bunk as expected with pockets stuffed to bulging with cash? – by the way did I hear correctly that he has just purchased a chateaux in France? Seriously? You really can’t make this stuff up…
Let’s be crystal clear on this that the process that Rangers are said to have started can in no way be considered as independent regardless of who they might ask to be involved.
Seems like a desperate stalling tactic to me. The comments from McCoist about “cleansing” and the ramblings of Paul Murray further sound like a desperate attempt to cloak this internal process with some kind of kudos.
I can hear DJ already ”…but the club did nothing wrong, the club were completely exonerated by an independent commission….it was all done to one individual in Charles Green…(insert any number of patronising platitudes here about “fans have suffered enough”, “punished enough”, “kicked when down…” etc. etc.
Regardless it is looking increasingly likely that the Police, Financial regulators, financial implosion, or probably all three will finish this off for them anyway.
I suspect that the main players in the saga all know this and this “report” is the first preparation in rewriting history for the main propaganda offensive that will accompany the death of this incarnation and the birth of New, New Rangers….. who will of course have 140 years of unblemished history and be blameless for anything done by the bad men….
Now…roll up bears, you may just soon have a new IPO to get all misty eyed about…..
Good morning from Barcelona. The weather is still glorious and Barca moved closer to La Liga title last night, albeit a little unconvincingly.
However as I enjoy an OJ and and a gently swelling Med, I am troubled by the possibility I made an error of judgement a few weeks ago.
Not so much that, along with most other observers, I was fascinated by the tragic/comedy moment that was Bomber Brown addressing the Mob outside of Ibrox. What is troubling me is that I didn’t immediately make an obvious link when the Whyte Sevco 5088 tapes story broke in The Sun 2 weeks ago.
I will admit that I did have the thought that Bomber was maybe onto something after all, however until 2 minutes ago I never made the more obvious and more important connection
Bomber was on his way out at Ibrox, that must have been immensely painful for him. He expressed himself in a way , that if it had been Neil Lennon, then the SFA would immediately have slapped a Sine Die ban on him.
However in his pain, and street rhetoric , the significance of who also knew what Bomber knew slipped past. It seems to me that it is impossible that what Bomber knew was not shared with McCoist and Walter Smith.
Yet how did these 2 Bastions react . Bomber stuck up 2 fingers at Green, told him to stick his job, and headed for the Front Door to spill the Beans and make himself a figure of ridicule.
McCoist stayed put, accepted close to £1 Million worth of shares and jumped on the bandwagon by enthusiastically championing the season book sales pitch. Walter took a seat on the board and a £50,000 salary for a modest amount of part time work. How many shares he was awarded, if any, isn’t clear.
Yet it is beyond believable that they did not have the same information that Bomber had. Which leads to one of 2 conclusions
1. They didn’t believe Bombers information, which now calls their judgement into question
Or
2. They did believe it, which calls something much more serious into question
Barcabhoy, it has to be number 2. Big John Knew! (But so did Ally and Walter. )
barcabhoy says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 08:26
Good morning from Barcelona. The weather is still glorious and Barca moved closer to La Liga title last night, albeit a little unconvincingly.
However as I enjoy an OJ and and a gently swelling Med, I am troubled by the possibility I made an error of judgement a few weeks ago.
Not so much that, along with most other observers, I was fascinated by the tragic/comedy moment that was Bomber Brown addressing the Mob outside of Ibrox. What is troubling me is that I didn’t immediately make an obvious link when the Whyte Sevco 5088 tapes story broke in The Sun 2 weeks ago……………..
Good afternoon to you barcabhoy from a balmy Busan…..
I have to say I think that you are bang on the money here…if you remember in the fall out from the “Ibrox Address” Brown seemed to be really bitter when he made statements like “only have 5 true friends” and “being shunned”…..my personal suspicions is that it may have just indeed been Saints Walter and Ally that Brown was thinking…..
I find it inconceivable that Brown is aware of something that Ally and Walter are not…..if they were not all made aware of this at the same time then common reason suggests that the first two people that Brown would have made sure knew about this would be this pair.
I have often wondered just how well these claims of “dignity” and “true rangers men” (whatever the hell that means) would stand up if ever given any type of scrutiny ….especially in the case of the cardigan adorned one…..(Smith that is – I just remembered that Ally has taken to this garment recently too…)
Personally I suspect that both Walter Smith and Ally McCoist are up to their eyeballs in this……think back to last summer….
Walter’s last minute fronting of a counter bid…which they knew fine well would be refused….then Green flashing his knickers at him….then Walter a few weeks later on board as a non-executive director…(just what are his actual qualifications for this role are I have no idea……presumably he is aware that there are serious responsibilities involved)…
In the case of Ally….the bout of petulance and rumors of quitting….McCoist obviously very unhappy about something….only to (as if he had just fell of a horse somewhere in the region of Damascus) his sudden unwavering, in fact, oddly triumphant support of Charlie…just in time to get the all-important Season Ticket cash in.
Has it ever been published how much McCoist and Smith are paid in their respective roles?
I demand to know….etc. etc.
Craig Mather is not being ‘brought in’ by The Rangers Board as some would have the gullible believe. This is an attempt by Zeus to place their own man on the inside again to carry on the good work already done by Mr Green and Mr Whyte on their behalf.
Liked this quote from Brown (I suppose SMSM don’t do irony)
>>
“It was going to happen anyway,” Brown told reporters. “You are journalists, if you do your job properly you would find that out.
<<
Oooops someone beat me to it.
Regarding Brown , the question should be “why did you shut up last summer?”,was he promised something ,perhaps a job somewhere else like Calderwood a few years before.
Morning all from a blustery Glasgow
Was out for a small refreshment with 2 sevco friends last night and these guys just dont want to talk about their team anymore ,they just dont want to hear anymore of the constant stream of horse manure they have been fed and by their own peeple too,it is nearly 2 years now since the rumours started ,2 years,now who has also been about for the same period ,yep Watty and Sally,and they claim to know nothing,zilch ,Nadda,what kind of human beings are these 2 or more to the point what kind of human beings is it that believe in these 2 ,they had not better come out out and say anything against Charlie along with an excuse for not saying anything before,I do expect something from sally along these lines ,its in his make-up,but this has a long way to go yet and we will see another farce develope ,and another as the incompetents queue up to do a Yosser Hughes ,if Charlie could fullfill one ,just one of his pipe dreams with the North Koreans it would be to allow them to direct their test instrument on a stadium over Govan way and do everyone a favour,now where’s the bacon rolls.
peterjung1 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 08:59
Has it ever been published how much McCoist and Smith are paid in their respective roles?
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The info is in the Rangers AIM flotation prospectus or can be worked out from that.
From memory Ally is on £700K approx but with no real prospect of bonuses for some years, if ever, and Walter around £50K. Walter has a smal shareholding and haven’t a clue what price he paid for them but doubt if they are 1p shares as another Ned is publicly listed as paying something like 76p for his shareholding.
Ally apparently has two tranches of shares: He has 1 million and I would be truly surprised if he paid more than 1p each for them and then I seem to remember another approx 70K which he bought later for his boys possibly at flotation although for that amount there would be some discount on the 70p flotation price.
Of course Green won’t make any money from selling his shares as he has publicly confirmed he bought them to leave for his grandchildren. What a man he is!
thoughtsfromthenortheast says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 09:27
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He explained that before, he was warned off by the heavies….
peterjung1 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 08:12
“ …….. How the hell can this 5 way agreement still now remain “secret” and why the hell is no-one, and I mean no-one screaming from the rooftops about the scandal of this secret document? It seems just to be accepted that it is a secret and that is that? …….”
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That Peter is the great unanswered question and shame of this farrago. Why has it not been disclosed? Because the contents, if known, would possibly be a scandal in the eyes of the average supporter. That scandal possibly leading to a substantial number of fans walking away,
This agreement has been created by the collusion of ALL member clubs if we work on the principle that SPL/SFL boards follow the wishes of their members. We have seen lately with the re-construction mess, how difficult it is for the clubs to agree, yet this 5-way agreement has gone through apparently seamlessly with no public dissent, as far as I know from ANY chairman. I suspect it’s a little like the “Riding a tiger and holding on by the ears” scenario, ie. I don’t like it but daren’t oppose it.
Probably the only way to get release would be a concerted boycott, once more, by fans in buying season books, until some chairmen broke ranks. That, or a bitter Charlie somewhere, putting a boot into the organisation that is supposed to run Scottish Football. Now that would be one of Charlie’s ramblings I would really want to hear.
Is this what the final hours onboard the titanic must have felt like. A sense of peaceful inevitability as the giant vessel slid helplessly toward the enormous iceberg. The band played on: Stewards served cocktails in pristine white jackets; and the captain staring calamity in the face froze. How could the decorum of an opulent voyage be disturbed by the intrusion of that voice over the PA system announcing ‘Abandon ship”. It was inconceivable. Better let the huge iceberg slice open the vessel’s side and leave her dead in the water rather than sully one’s reputation with such an announcement.
Is this where dignity has taken us, to the precipice of disaster and no-one (no-one listened to John Brown), has the sense or tenacity to set the alarm bells ringing. I listened to Tom English over the last few days (sorry Tom, I mark you out largely because you fronted up) and the same holding position is being trotted out. “Its not really an iceberg and even if it is the vessel’s helm will kick in imminently and pull us away from our disastrous course”. Or Paul Murray last night, finally in a position where he ‘might’ exert an influence over events again shying away from saying it how it is, when the opportunity to do a ‘Bomber’ was layed before him.
John Brown trusted his instincts but instinct alone will not survive this tragedy. When Rangers fans eventually survey the wreckage of this farago they will realise that the people who have been whispering sweet nothings in their ears were not their friends never mind their lovers. The Emperor stands naked and yet still no-one dare state the obvious lest their opinions be forced back down their throats.
Is there no-one in those ranks of Blue that is willing to take destiny into his own hands and risk reputation for what they know is a better future. If not, you will die. Few will weep.
valentinesclown says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 07:49
Where is Mr Traynor? Unusually quiet.
===========================================
I think people are too hard on him. In any case he’s writing the book which I believe was more Green’s book than the Rangers Story.
But being a good tabloid Journo used to getting tons of fluff out quickly JT no doubt stuck to the old tried and tested formula for the red tops.
First of all write the ending – that really is the easy bit because all you do is place it in the future which means you can basically write whatever you want. No one will ever remember you got it wrong, But I have the feeling the ending has had to be scrapped because of recent developments and I would think that even an ace tabloid hack would have difficulty in dreaming-up a credible ending at this stage – I do not elevate JT to that level of journalistic expertise btw.
After the ending you just write acres of porridge for the middle and drag all the usual suspects in to praise Rangers, its history and most of all its Dignity. So nothing, in normal times, of much interest to internet sleuths but it all takes time and it has become a bit tricky with the splintering in the fan support and management of the club at the highest level. And how do you handle the EBTs – oh silly me that has nothing to do with Green so send for the airbrush.
But then we have the genuinely most difficult bit in any tabloid-style story – The beginning and the 15 word first paragraph that lays out the ‘Who, Why, What’ parameters. The ‘How’ is buried in the middle and consists of 75% pure fiction and 25% wishful thinking but as to the truth you will find little of that DNA let alone the buried bodies and the horses are still running anyway.
But the project surely has become a minefield with JT stranded in the middle and Green off to France with the map. I have no doubt that JT will himself be interviewed by the police at some stage as not only is he in a position standing beside the throne – temporarily vacant – but who knows what ‘titbits’ of evidential value he has picked-up during his short tenure at Ibrox.
He probably now looks forward to his own best-seller blowing the lid of Ibrox but then CW wandered onto the stage and claimed exclusive world wide rights on the story. You can say what you like about Craig but his timing is impeccable and he has to play himself as nobody else could truly capture his cheekiness.
PS: I wonder if JT has done a serialisation deal with the Record?
‘re the 5 way agreement, people could ask their club if they have seen the agreement. It may be surprising how many will have no idea of its contents.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 10:15
‘re the 5 way agreement, people could ask their club if they have seen the agreement. It may be surprising how many will have no idea of its contents.
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You may very well be correct Grumps. I have no evidence to say otherwise. However, if the SPL/SFL, or whatever boards, signed into this agreement, without consulting their members, don’t you thing the said members would be a tad unhappy, and might have said so?
So much wishful thinking on here.
Night Terror says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 10:45
Huh?
I asked David Stoker of Livi if he had seen it and he said they had not.
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 06:58
39 0 Rate This
… I’m really warming to John Brown.
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Aye Wobbly, he’s taken a lot of abuse and ridicule. Certainly can’t accuse him of insincerity or not telling it straight though. I’ve been listening to his interviews, also surrounding Dundee, and he’s very much what it says on the tin. In the upcoming movie he may turn out to be one of the few good guys.
Possibly off topic of what’s gone before, but I have to write a word or two about Clyde FC.
I can’t but say how disappointed I am with yesterday’s announcement that we’re moving to East Kilbride, but the worst of it is that I can’t even fall back on the almost cliched retort that we’re not listening to the fans, because we’re supporter owned!
I support Clyde because they’re my local team, and I realise it makes me slightly hypocritical, given that they only became my local team due to somebody else losing there’s, and that it’s the support of a lot of those disenfranchised fans that has helped sustain this club through a lot of the last 20 years.
Besides, moving to EK isn’t going to make much difference crowd wise. You’ll have the same ‘novelty’ effect that you had on the move to Cumbernauld, before crowds will settle down to much the same levels as here.
I understand the rent being a major factor (apparently it’s in the region of £30,000 a year at Broadwood, but would about 1% of that in EK), but who’s to say that won’t shoot up once the initial agreement finishes. All it would take is yet another cut in local council funding, and they’ll looking at ways to squeeze more out of their sources of income.
Short term I can see why Clyde would want to move, but longterm it’s the same old problems, and will be until there’s a broom taken to all the football authorities in this country, where everything is geared towards chasing the ever decreasing tv money on offer to the dtriment of everything else.
The main arguement of those who sought the move to EK, and perhaps was an olive branch of recognition to those who opposed it, was that we could’t allow emotional historical ties to trump cold hard business logic, and yet that is clearly being blind to the big picture.
If you treat a football club as a franchise, then you are moving it out of the irrational arena of emotion, and making that club an entertainment enterprise. When the novelty wears off, your new community of fans will be judging what they see through the eyes of consumers, not the rose tinted, dogged eyes of the indoctrinated fan. Frankly, would you pay £12 a time to watch the abomination that was yesterday’s match against Montrose if you were applying cold logic? I don’t think so! Having watched our player hit a free kick to the feet of an opposition player about 20 feet away from him at one point, I was questioning it myself!
So, good luck to the Bully Wee in the future. I respect the fact that it was the fans that brought this about, and I can see why they feel it was necessary, but I won’t be travelling to EK to watch them. Once they leave the ‘nauld, then that’ll be me. Might even have to do the unthinkable and go and see the Jags….
I can only assume that the details of the 5 way agreement are so Toxic to Scottish football that it must remain hidden from the fans…
Well there you go,the nuclear event was in front of us all along BOMBER BROWN
Night Terror says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 10:45
So much wishful thinking on here.
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And so little reality checking over there.
bect67 at 11.32
“Purgatorius Ignus”
Sorry,meant “Purgatorius Ignis”
Wishful thinking Night Terror?
Doubt you are, but I’m very much looking forward to Phil Mac’s next take on recent AND future events …..
So ‘cleansing’ now enters into the glossary of terms ascribed to all things Rangers.
WE
We all echo the sentiments of Mr.Mcoist
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 11:07
8 0 Rate This
… So, good luck to the Bully Wee in the future. I respect the fact that it was the fans that brought this about, and I can see why they feel it was necessary, but I won’t be travelling to EK to watch them. Once they leave the ‘nauld, then that’ll be me. Might even have to do the unthinkable and go and see the Jags….
————
The original move from the historic home was sad. And I suppose a nomadic existence was never going to work, long term. I had hoped they’d return to a ground closer to the old Shawfield. That new stadium at Scotstoun looks great, but then again, sharing and cost. I understand there’s still Clyde FC youth work in Glasgow though. Perhaps one day when the daft notion of betting on racing dogs goes out of fashion, Shawfield may become a football venue once again?
Jack Jarvis says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 11:38
And the truth lies somewhere in between?
I’m in agreement with a few other posters on here that Ally McCoist’s tenure in the ‘big hoose’ has reached it’s sell by date. With his Yorkshire pal having left already for fresh prey, sorry challenges; Ally should also do the right thing and follow him down the marble staircase and out the front door.
He should be intelligent enough to realise; that the sensible Bears will be seeing him now for what he really is …an inept, journeyman chequebook manager, easily manipulated by spivs who were/are there just for the money. (He obviously didn’t notice the kerching! tattoo on those big hairy hands of Charles?)
His personable ‘cheeky chappie’ mask had also slipped to many of us – that rant for names from the SFA in particular still rankles with a lot of fans. And to cap it all, his willingness to turn collaborator in the acceptance of Sevco’s takeover of Ibrox … if his mate John Brown knew Charles Green was being circumspect with the facts last year, then you can safely bet your pay day loan that he knew the relevant details as well. (That generation of footballers have a bond akin to War Vets) Yet he still very publicly threw his support behind Green’s season ticket campaign and IPO. That complicitness alone should see him taking a good hard, critical look at his own self-serving conduct and recognise the fact that he’s contributed immensely to the dilution of the TRFC finances and ultimately the club’s future competitiveness in Scottish football.
Time to go Ally, I’ll remember some of the great goals you scored for your club, but that own-goal you scored against your own support could be your real legacy.
Danish,
I agree it was sad when Clyde moved originally. I mean no disrespect to Cumbernauld when I say that to me EK is a better fit for their roots – being a lot closer to Oatlands than Cumbernauld is, but the notion that they should change their name is also very sad – and astonishing to me.
If they do find a home in EK, why not just retain the name along with their history?
The thing that keeps niggling at me (among other things) is the ‘licence’ for season 12/13 was it valid??? if whyte was involved? surely not!! Deceit, secrets, lies and coverups that’s what sevco is all about 🙂 yes ally a good dose of cleansing is required for this mess you claim is a football club you are ‘managing’
I also look forward to PMG next instalment so far he’s the only journo who is not sugar-coating the ‘sevco saga’ well done Phil 🙂
stmungo69 says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:13
________________________________________
I agree that Green’s departure, coupled with the timely reminder that Brown had got it right, will be followed by the loud clink of the penny dropping with the Rangers support.
It is not credible that McCoist didn’t know what Brown alleged, therefore actively or passively, he has been an accomplice.
That should make his position untenable. Added to his unremarkable performance in the dressing room with a more demanding campaign ahead next term, I can’t see him surviving over the close season.
Fans of Rangers second division rivals next term will hope I am wrong of course, as will those who wish the pantomime to continue, but Rangers really are at the last chance saloon financially and with the regulatory bodies. They won’t take the risk that the continued presence of McCoist entails.
I have been reading the posts on here for nearly a year now and everyone seems to be obsessed with how the 5 way agreement has remained a secret and whats in it.. Perhaps the truth is that there wasn’t any Agreement reached and that’s why its still so secret.. I really can’t believe as a life long Cynic that any Agreement reached in Secret can remain Secret for long even with an MSM so useless as everyone on this Blog seems to think. Sometime’s the Truth is so simple and mundane as that.. But I might just be wrong that’s why I find this so interesting as a Football fan,
I meant the whole Saga of Old Ranger’s v New Ranger’s is interesting not just the 5 way Agreement in case that wasn’t clear…
Philip Spicer (@BrooksBaba) says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:26
__________________________________________
I think you are correct, but they can’t admit that considering the authorities were supposed to be playing hard ball.
The actuality is that Rangers were given their licence and membership unconditionally, because Green never blinked, and Regan and Ogilvie had a severe attack of the Davie Whites.
His failure to beat Malmo and Maribor last season cost Rfc around £12-15 million
His wage packet of £700k for winning Div 3
His £7m squad cost in wages boosted by his demand for SPL quality players such as
Templeton Sandaza Black Sheils and demanding to keep Wallace McCulloch Alexander etc
The cost of his backroom staff McDowell Durrant N Murray
His recent comments regarding needing that £10m transfer hamper to win Div 2
All add up to more money wasted than Charles “highly succesful” IPO flotation
Can Rfc* really afford another 12 months of Ally McCoist ?
Ally McCoist is to Rfc* what Fred Goodwin was to banking
I wonder how much Bomber is on at Dundee ? I wonder if he would do the same job at Ibrox
for the same (Dundee) money ? I wonder if the next CEO would have him back ?
The answers I suspect are not much -Yes and not if they’re part of the cabal.
Carry on Ally ,you’re doing a fine job
From The Sunday Mail:
“The worry is that if links to Whyte are upheld then Green will be accused of lying to the SFA last summer in order to obtain a club licence.
And an Ibrox source told MailSport: “There might be some things that ultimately we’d prefer not to hear but we need it all out in the open.””
If illegally-registered players cannot suffer a back-dated de-registration or sanction, I can’t see the club licence being revoked or a season’s results being nullified by the football authorities. After all, as an offence, lying to the SFA in order to get a club licence cannot be anywhere near as serious as a manager uttering an expletive during a match 🙂
CAN WE PLEASE STOP CALLING FOR ALLY TO BE SACKED.
If he’s gone, what will we have to laugh about? The wheels are coming off the bus – Whyte is back, green has bolted, Admin is looming…it’s all about to end, so can we please keep Wee Ally in place to go down with the ship – for the comedy factor alone.
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 11:07
Might even have to do the unthinkable and go and see the Jags….
_____________________________________________________
Glory hunter!! 🙂
angus1983 says: Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:22
“CM said “I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne.“Excellent. Another comedy name. straight from Sherwood Forest. It’s like “Once Upon A Time” on the telly”
And it gets even more surreal as the MSM gets all excited the about a “new sheriff in town”.
Craig Mather is a Nottingham based MD with a fellow director called Guy Gisborne…….strangely reminiscent of another sheriff.
Of course that Sheriff of Nottingham was ably assisted by henchman Guy of Gisbourne and their prime task was to “tax the many poor, to further enrich the few”.
Season ticket renewals coming up soon…..surely no parallels can be drawn between a historically dubious English folk tale…or can they?
There is NO CHANCE of the SFA revoking Sevco’s membership. Even if it turns out Whyte is involved.
Agree? – Thumbs Up
Disagree? – Thumbs Down
VOTE NOW!
previouslyknownassnowdog says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 11:41
Sorry,meant “Purgatorius Ignis”
——
Indeed. They should have stuck to making motorcycles.
Philip Spicer (@BrooksBaba) says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:26
I have been reading the posts on here for nearly a year now and everyone seems to be obsessed with how the 5 way agreement has remained a secret and whats in it.. Perhaps the truth is that there wasn’t any Agreement reached and that’s why its still so secret.
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Well the 5-way agreement is discussed in some depth in the Rangers AIM Flotation document – surely if it was mythical this would have been revealed to AIM – well perhaps not given recent revelations 🙂
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 12:50
CAN WE PLEASE STOP CALLING FOR ALLY TO BE SACKED.
If he’s gone, what will we have to laugh about? The wheels are coming off the bus – Whyte is back, green has bolted, Admin is looming…it’s all about to end, so can we please keep Wee Ally in place to go down with the ship – for the comedy factor alone.
——
I thoroughly agree. Imagine if Ibrox was taken over by sensible people, and all the remaining hilarious character actors were thrown out.
That would be no fun at all.
NTHM
But they may be forced to revoke the licence, but like you I doubt it very much, the ‘peepil’ would go mental 🙂
Angus 1983
This poses another question as to the movie ,will it be animated,who could be cast for the voice overs ,this should be good,lets go,I’ll start ,Joe Pasquali to play Ally.
Agree Brenda, as events unfold,and depending on how much truth gets out there,the SFA may have no alternative but to revoke the licence.
yourhavingalaugh at 13.42
Surely Shellsuit Bob would play Ally.