Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
Are you looking for some airport/sun-lounger/bed-time reading?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Follow-We-Will-Fall-Rangers/dp/1908373687/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368206544&sr=1-1&keywords=follow+we+will
Book Description
Publication Date: 1 July 2013
When future generations ask who saved Rangers and revitalised the club thereafter, the fans of today can say with some confidence: We were the people.
The saga of Rangers is a tragic one. It is the story of the fall of one of Scotland’s most prestigious football clubs. A tale of hate and accusations. One which blurred truth with speculation and turned a trial into a witch-hunt.
Review
A book written by people who care deeply about Rangers but
who also believe questions must be asked… a calm, composed
narrative which goes a long way to explaining much of what has gone on around the club over these last few years.
–Walter Smith
Colin Armstrong (Author), Iain Duff (Author), David Edgar
(Author), Stewart Franklin (Author, Editor), John DC Gow (Author, Editor), Chris Graham (Author, Editor), Ross EJ Hendry (Author), David Kinnon (Author), Alasdair McKillop (Author, Editor), Gail Richardson (Author), Calvin Spence (Author), Richard Wilson (Author)
wottpi says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:05
4 1 Rate This
Anyone with a twitter account want to pass on the name Vicast to AT and Phil Mac?
Just to be helpful you understand
Done 🙂
mullach says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 09:58
Lord Wobbly
Your Lordship, just to underscore my pun blindness, I am
unaware of the reference you made concerning an earlier post of mine. Initially I thought you were referring to a Scots whisky
manufacturer until a later comment (was it John Clarke?) clarified that Balvenie was actually a Street In Garthamlock.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Balvenie was my drink of choice during many heady days and nights spent on the RTC site. I shamelessly namedropped their Signature and Doublewood malts in the hope of earning some ‘commission’. Not even so much as a nip came my way. I’ve since discovered that other malts are available. 😉
Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 12m
I hear some Rangers fans are rather annoyed with the governance of their club. And they are taking advice…
wottpi says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:05
Done
paulsatim says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:49
0 0 Rate This
Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 12m
I hear some Rangers fans are rather annoyed with the
governance of their club. And they are taking advice…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Didn’t they read Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s site?
Didn’t they read RTC?
Random Scots Law Thoughts?
Kerrydale St?
TSFM?
and assorted other sites/social networks etc etc?
y4rmy says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 14:31
5 0 Rate This
there is a welsh team named – the new saints
fair play to them that’s what i call honesty !!
To give them their full name, The New Saints of Oswestry Town
& Llansantffraid Football Club formerly known as Total Network
Solutions FC.
Their home kit will interest a few on here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An interesting bit on their Wiki page:
In the summer of 2003 a merger with their financially weak
neighbours, Oswestry Town (who, despite being from England,
also played in Wales), was approved by Oswestry’s shareholders despite not all shareholders being aware of a meeting. It was also approved by the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and was eventually ratified on 14 August 2003 by UEFA (who initially objected to two clubs from different governing bodies merging).
alzipratu(corsica1968) my hero!!!
Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 19:07
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I recall there was an objection to them being called Total Network Solutions FC as it was a company name but they won. Personally I look forward to Vicast Total Rangers FC.
wottpi says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 14:31
45
0
Rate This
Interesting though
james reilly @jamesx2k13 4h @alextomo alex it is people like you that always have negative stories about rangers when are you ever going to say anything positive. never
alex thomson @alextomo 4m @jamesx2k13 I only ever do extremely positive stories about Rangers – giving fans the info the spivs don’t want made public.
————————————————————————————————————————-
That tweet says it all about tribute act fans, who would rather be kept in the dark than know the truth about whats happening at their club
badgerbhoy says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 19:15
4
james reilly @jamesx2k13 4h @alextomo alex it is people like you that always have negative stories about rangers when are you ever going to say anything positive. never
alex thomson @alextomo 4m @jamesx2k13 I only ever do extremely positive stories about Rangers – giving fans the info the spivs don’t want made public.
————————————————————————————————————————-
That tweet says it all about tribute act fans, who would rather be kept in the dark than know the truth about whats happening at their club
==================================================================
To be fair it says everything about the unquestioning nature of most people these days. Who would have thought there was this much intrigue in the simple game of football?
Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:45
‘..Balvenie was my drink of choice…..’
——–
And a very good choice, at that!
mullach says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 09:58
‘…..a later comment (was it John Clarke?) clarified that Balvenie was actually a Street In Garthamlock…’
Yes, indeed,it was I.
My first very serious girl friend once lived in that very street!
Sometimes wonder if she contributes to this blog!
100bjd at 17:31:
Vicast appears to be just an aspiring multimedia start-up fronted by Nicola Young, who comes from a well-respected media family. She was among the many RFC PLC creditors, being owed £3,500 by the deid club.
But the involvement of Peter Watson, Bain, Paul Murray and McLelland is intriguing.
Maybe Nicola just has a restricted circle of acquaintances. (;-0)
Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!
SATURDAY, APRIL 13, 2013
BY BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN
_________________________________________________________________________
It is now May 10 and every word in BRTH’s piece at the top of this page is every bit as relevant, as accurate and as urgent today as it was then.
But still, the SFA and TRFC seem hell bent on destroying Scottish Football.
And all because they seem convinced that as long as both the SFA and TRFC remain as they are, then everything will eventually be alright.
Both utterly consumed by their own self-interest.
And as a result, both destined for their own self destruction.
Is there any clarity yet on the pledges that were given to the SFA which allowed The Rangers into the Div 3?
john clarke says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 19:41
0 0 Rate This
Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:45
‘..Balvenie was my drink of choice…..’
——–
And a very good choice, at that!
mullach says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 09:58
‘…..a later comment (was it John Clarke?) clarified that Balvenie was actually a Street In Garthamlock…’
Yes, indeed,it was I.
My first very serious girl friend once lived in that very street!
Sometimes wonder if she contributes to this blog!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s not me, before you start that again! 🙂
tomtomaswell says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 10:15
chipm0nk says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 10:03
=============================
There is absolutely no appetite from anyone at the SFA/SPL to investigate Rangers unless they could guarantee the outcome, that outcome being the continuance of Rangers in any shape or form. Any investigation that could threaten their existence will be avoided like the plague.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t disagree but why do we put up with it? Shouldn’t we be presurising our clubs?
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
parttimearab says:
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 at 19:31
Noticed the following amongst Leggo’s ramblings this morning
“For Murray has been clinging onto power in a desperately deluded and damaging attempt to dig some dirt on financial director Brian Stockbridge over a complicated deal involving £300,000 and investors.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Reflecting on this I recalled that the Orlit claim was said to be circa £400k
I also recall other posters suggesting that the claim should arguably have been owed by “Blue Pitch Holdings” rather than RIFC.
It’s probably unrelated but I just wondered if this might be a payment to Orlit (and that strand has gone rather quiet), which might explain Mr Murray’s alleged ire?
parttimearab says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 20:26
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
parttimearab says:
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 at 19:31
Noticed the following amongst Leggo’s ramblings this morning
“For Murray has been clinging onto power in a desperately deluded and damaging attempt to dig some dirt on financial director Brian Stockbridge over a complicated deal involving £300,000 and investors.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Reflecting on this I recalled that the Orlit claim was said to be circa £400k
I also recall other posters suggesting that the claim should arguably have been owed by “Blue Pitch Holdings” rather than RIFC.
It’s probably unrelated but I just wondered if this might be a payment to Orlit (and that strand has gone rather quiet), which might explain Mr Murray’s alleged ire?
==================================================================
Lego gets info and then makes it into propaganda. Who pays him?
nickmcguinness says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 19:46
100bjd at 17:31:
Vicast appears to be just an aspiring multimedia start-up fronted by Nicola Young, who comes from a well-respected media family. She was among the many RFC PLC creditors, being owed £3,500 by the deid club.
But the involvement of Peter Watson, Bain, Paul Murray and McLelland is intriguing.
Maybe Nicola just has a restricted circle of acquaintances. (;-0)
==============================================
My wife was in meeja video production et al in Scotland for 20 years and has never heard of her The main company in the stuffed creditors was Camerons (and for many thousands more) who are a well known family in that area. (Made all the gers DVDs etc)
This looks to me like a NON coincidence.
Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 18:45
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Balvenie was my drink of choice during many heady days and nights spent on the RTC site. I shamelessly namedropped their Signature and Doublewood malts in the hope of earning some ‘commission’. Not even so much as a nip came my way. I’ve since discovered that other malts are available.
===============
Jeezo, LW.
Your relentless product promotion would make even a Kardashian blush… mibbees… 🙄
LW
Keeping a cask strength Aberlour on hold for the big one in November I reckon.
Currently 59.7% on bottling need plenty water with that methinks.
Will have one for Corsica.
did enough people sign the petition to get the 5way agreement published
WOW,
Thanks folks for the plaudits but all I’ve done is post a blog from our good friend Corsica1968.The forensic minds amongst you have taken this on,not me.
More power to your keyboards!
I don’t suppose there’s any chance that this media company has been set up to do Rangers’ online match broadcasting / Rangers TV / Rangers Radio.
You could not make this stuff up.
The SFA are waiting on Sevco’s internal investigation to end before they will look to see if the terms of Sevco’s membership have been breached
liveinhop says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:33
That has to be a joke.
What next, Rangers did not gain a sporting advantage by lying to the SFA when applying for their licence.
And even if they did, that was then and this is now so no retrospective action.
I’m afraid if it is true then the evidence that Scottish football is institutionally corrupt is becoming overwhelming.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-great-pretenders/
The men who are leading Rangers … to the abyss.
chipm0nk says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:42
That has to be a joke.
What next, Rangers did not gain a sporting advantage by lying to the SFA when applying for their licence.
And even if they did, that was then and this is now so no retrospective action.
I’m afraid if it is true then the evidence that Scottish football is institutionally corrupt is becoming overwhelming.
==========================================================
Not overwhelming – FACT.
That comment I made was taken from grant on twitter
chipm0nk says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:14
2 0 Rate This
I don’t suppose there’s any chance that this media company has been set up to do Rangers’ online match broadcasting / Rangers TV / Rangers Radio.
==========================
I was thinking last week who is behind the rangers tv etc as it seems to be a decent set up ( Not that I tune in that often ). So I was wondering who is behind the the infrastructure. I know STV signed a deal with the old rangers, but are they still behind them?
Their website is http://www.rangerstv.tv
I thought the last 3 letters before .tv might give it away???
A few facts
Nicola Young is the daughter of Noel Young ex editor to the Sunday Mail and Nina Young.
Her brother Gordon Young is the md of The Drum a Scottish based media magazine and on line site.
James Forrest says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:43
———-
very good article James
If Rfc* employed a squad of local players and a manager who loved the club
and were prepared to play for the average wage of the other clubs in their league
I feel they would be far better served than the mercenaries who are currently employed at Ibrox.
Walter Smith currently pockets more money per year than the entire wage bill for East Stirlingshire ,Mr McCoist and his management team rake in 25 x that amount , the playing squad
175x that amount and still they came away with red faces in 11 out of 36 games this season.
To celebrate all that as some sort of triumph took the biggest brass neck of all.
James Forrest says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:43
Brilliant!
finloch says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 22:04
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A few facts
Nicola Young is the daughter of Noel Young ex editor to the Sunday Mail and Nina Young.
Her brother Gordon Young is the md of The Drum a Scottish based media magazine and on line site.
==================================
She’s keeping bad company is all I can say.
Cost cutting at Ibrox
timtim says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 22:36
2 0 Rate This
James Forrest says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:43
———-
If Rfc* employed a squad of local players and a manager who loved the club
and were prepared to play for the average wage of the other clubs in their league
I feel they would be far better served than the mercenaries who are currently employed at Ibrox.
__________________________________________________________________________
For 16 months, RFC(IL) & TRFC have known full well that they should cut costs if they were to balance the books.
Instead, they have maintained their cost base in spite of finding themselves in Div 3.
An SPL team, manager and staff, all on SPL level wages in Div 3.
Club executives earning £350,000 a year & the Manager on £750,000 pa.
Made no sense.
So why ? Why spend so much money when they could have won Div 3 on 10% of their actual spend.
Answer – because the spend had nothing to do with winning Div 3.
Instead, those huge costs are all about maintaining Rangers’ status as the establishment, supremicist, top club.
WATP don’t do dressing down, cutting your cloth and living within your means.
Not when the team in green are doing so well and have become top dog.
Which brings us back to a well worn theme.
Rangers are not just a football club.
They are also something which lives inside a football club.
That something is even more expensive to keep going than a football team.
But it is something which must be kept up no matter the cost – even if your skint.
It is of course Loyalism.
But even Loyalists can’t go on forever living beyond their means, and certainly not now that the banks won’t lend them the money to fund the cause.
But hey, everything comes to an end.
What can they do about it?
Not a lot.
Except pretend, until the last penny is gone.
It’s what they do.
Their hallmark isn’t ‘dignity’, as many insist.
It’s ‘ defiance ‘.
And they’ll still be defiant when their football club is finished for good.
Which won’t be long now.
“Vicast is a simple internet TV solution for businesses and organisations who don’t want to get bogged down in the technicals. It is a user friendly end-to-end platform that makes it easy to get going and requires no specialist knowledge.”
The question is therefore if Nicola Young has the family connections mentioned above why is this start up company packed full with directors and lawyers all connected with the oldco, where she only worked for one year max 2009-10.
Why is all the “specialist knowledge” at the top of the company related to the oldco.
Could all be A-Okay and related to trying to get some link in to media solutions at Ibrox but given the players, including the apparent involvement of the newco’s Head of Business Management and the fact the co was set up last year and othesr joined this year – it all looks very fishy.
Stuart Cosgrove with his media hat on is well up on this type of thing, so I would hope he could shed some light on the matter.
Here’s financial reality for you.
The ‘well in Europa cup will lose:
Law
Randolph
Humphries
For certain.
Probably
Faddy
Higdon
Hutchinson
All for nothing or for pennies.
This is May
We then need to create a new team by the 2nd or 3rd week of July and play in Europe. Then the rags will moan about the lack of success.
I should point out that every one of the above has been touted shamelessly as cert to join Sevco by the media and the loonies sites.
Definitely None of them will.
Guaranteed.
They will all better themselves and best of luck to them all, they did great for us.
End of rant.
Oh and all who believe getting to Europa league is a source of millions , its not. Its a loss maker until you get to a group. Watch for net years accounts. ICT beware.
James Forrest says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:43
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-great-pretenders/
The men who are leading Rangers … to the abyss.
————————————————————————————————————————
An outstanding line from an outstanding article….
On McCoist and WATP.
“McCoist was not simply playing to the gallery. He was playing to the gutter.”
Mr Forrest – well said sir. Chapeau.
I know plenty of decent blokes that are Rangers fans, but I have never understood how they could either be blind to or accept this aspect of the Ibrox identity. It really is the gutter.
Rationally, I accept the strong likelihood of a team playing in blue on the Southside of Glasgow in the future.
In my heart I am reasonably happy for this to happen. But only if they ditch the baggage of the past.
Rationally, I do not believe this can happen as it is the main raison d’etre for that club to occupy the position it has.
Some will take offense. OK. Prove us wrong and show us that there is a future for Ibrox without the bogitry. Hard to believe when the Great Pretenders have retreated so publicly into the sectarian bunker.
Amongst fans of other clubs and Scottish football in general – who really believes, now, that the future would be better without any form of t’Rangers? Deep down in my heart I believe that Scotland would be a better place without them.
I genuinely wish the decent Gers fans well (up to the normal point of never wanting to lose anything to them etc!). But unless they can get the club to move on from the mistakes of the past- how can we find common ground? Where are the decent fans? Where are they demanding an end to the WATP garbage?
Nobody like us – we don’t care? Maybe they should.
Wottpi
Exactly absolutely 0% of the people involved know jack ]~s about video media. Its a front.
Out it troops.
http://www.aberdeen-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/aberdeen_slash_hearts_tickets_to_5_794935/index.shtml
Nice gesture at end of season
chipm0nk says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:42
===================
Becoming …??
ianagain says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 00:09
______________________________
Appreciate the vote of confidence, but we haven’t done the job yet! Of course, if your boys can put County to the sword for us tomorrow we certainly wont be complaining! (and can I say what a pleasure it was watching your men of steel last weekend! Quite possibly the most thrilling match I have attended. Including more than 1 Tyne Wear Derby!)
One thing you can say about ICT is that we are financially well run. I think this time round if we make it, the fact that we are popping our cherry might ease the financial burden. You make a very valid and welcome point nevertheless.
Howdy, haven’t posted for a while but the more I hear and read here and elsewhere, nothing short of fan power will bring everyone to the realisation that our game on its present course is well and trully f*****d. Waiting for ten or fifteen years for history to say why didn’t this or that happen, or even how it happened in the first place, is negligence of the highest order, especially when so many people know what is happening and do nothing to out those responsible.
How the gatekeepers of so called institutions, where fairness and accountability are the bedrock of their existence , notwithstanding the values of truth, honesty and integrity, can so easily cast aside these values for the singular pursuit of an entity so conflicted, so corrupt and so wrong on so many levels and at the same time willing to prostrate themselves in a sacrificial burning at the foot of the marble stairs is beyond me. Is this our country, is this our people? Is this really what it’s coming down to? When we need these bastions of free speech to inform and educate us in other areas, can we rely on them to give us a balanced and fair account on anything?
The shadow of this debacle stretches much further than “sport” and it’s time for real leaders to stand up and end this now before we all end up going down the tubes.
Sorry if this is OT, but found this whole piece so well written, brutal in its honesty, yet justifiable proud in its achievement without gloating, that I thought it was appropriate to share in this forum. History is made, not bought.
http://ictfc.com/matches/previews/916-preview-ict-v-dundee-utd
“There are ghosts that haunt Inverness, and some still harbour enmity and rancour because of the merger all these years ago. They hanker for the days of Telford Street and Kingsmills, proud histories and harbour that sense of loss that comes with nostalgia. At five o clock on Saturday, they might just come to the realisation that all of the pain, all of the effort and all of the journey was worth it.”
Caley Thistle in Europe? Bring it on.
http://ictfc.com/matches/previews/916-preview-ict-v-dundee-utd
But … I’ll take a bottle of ‘Balvenie’, and wish the Perth boys (or even County) well if we blow it tomorrow (today now).
When all is said and done, some of us are here for the journey, not the destination.
Just spent about five hours stripping down, refurbishing and rebuilding an old set of motorcycle carburretors. I wouldn’t be up this late otherwise. Happened to turn on the radio and caught a snippet of the South American football forum on radio 5 live which is a regular early morning feature.
manandboy says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 23:33
They were talking about derby matches. Apparently the River Plate / Boca Juniors derby revolves around class, in the absence of a religious divide. Boca are the team of the workers whereas River Plate are traditionally supported by the better off. Undoubtedly this this distinction will not be cut and dried but that is the heritage of the rivalry. There will be similar rivalries all over the world and not just in sport. It is the ‘Ying and the Yang’, a balance that is struck between opposing factions and a rivalry that will require both factions to excel in order to keep pace with one another. This is perfectly natural and all part of the human condition. Where I can chime with you manandboy is that our particular rivalry on the West Coast may have some unhealthy aspects.
This might go close to the heart of the frustrations that many regularly express and virtually all on here feel. The rivalry becomes unhealthy if one faction are preffered in some manner over the other. Your reference to Loyalism is a little contentious since when it comes to the independence vote next year I suspect there would be all sorts of divided loyalties experienced by a whole host of people. However I’ll take the spirit of your thrust rather than the letter.
So if one faction are preferred in some manner then the balance becomes upset. As the establishment club, ‘Rangers’, espousing a loyalty to their Britishness, might feel they can call on a much larger franchise to support their aspirations. How this pans out in reality is another matter but there may be a mindset here that is worthy of consideration. Possibly the confidence provided by that enfranchisement leads directly to a feeling of entitlement. The next step from entitlement is observance of codes and ethics in a manner that sits best with your own self interest.
I’m not sure that any sense of entitlement is well founded. Indeed events over the last two years indicate that if ‘Rangers’ did adopt this attitude then it has served them very poorly. No-one can sustain the infringement of widely held social norms for any length of time without eventually having to face the consequences of doing so. That is what is happening now. Consequences.
This apparent enfranchisement may have lead some people to think that if they acted in concert (whether by intrigue or by culture), they could blur the boundaries of these social norms for their own benefit. However they were wrong. I suspect that where this type of behaviour exists there will be individuals who will try and orchestrate it for their own benefit. They do not truly owe any allegiance but to themselves. However to mask their selfishness they cloak themselves in the respectability of one of the factions.
Social norms, ethics and the rule of law exist for good reasons. They are a good idea. Everyone knows which side of the road to drive on, thus avoiding many accidents. You can cross over the white line if you wish but do it often enough and you will likely suffer the consequences of your poor discipline. We are seeing this on a worldwide basis presently in the shape of the financial catastrophe.
So you may feel frustrated that many people in our current saga are playing fast and loose with the rules but undoubtedly there will be consequential events arising from such actions. This forum is just one of the places where such consequences are played out. When the music stops the individuals who have been promoting their own self interest will believe they will ‘make it to a chair’. They cannot be sure however and the more doubt that is sown into their minds the more likely it is that they will stop playing games and realise the reality that is around them.
Some credible reporting perchance: Full article;
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/call-for-green-to-surrender-his-rangers-shares.21050944
Could there be substance to this? ;-
`The executive at the investor said: “We invested in this at the IPO because we thought it was a good business. With Malcolm Murray as the chairman, we thought it was going to have good governance – I was at a presentation when Green was asked specifically if he had any relationship with Whyte, and he denied any.
“When we further analyse it and find Green got his five million shares for nominal value, we feel he should be giving them back. All he has done is bring disrepute to the club. His efforts have been negative. Malcolm Murray is a good, independent guy. The board should realign around him and Green should leave immediately.”`
And:
“A club spokesman said: ” …………. There is an ongoing independent inquiry into alleged links between Mr Green and Craig Whyte. Mr Green strenuously denies any wrongdoing and the club hopes the inquiry will be completed shortly………”
.
Shortly & Strenuously?
liveinhop says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 21:33
You could not make this stuff up.
The SFA are waiting on Sevco’s internal investigation to end before they will look to see if the terms of Sevco’s membership have been breached
==========================================================
It is not credible to think the SFA can, or will take appropriate action. That is not to say the SFA don’t have rules they could apply, but the Scottish Government and the media have made it clear that the survival of a team in blue playing at Ibrox is more important than anything else in Scottish Football. The SFA will not be allowed to stand in the way of that view, even if they are of a mind to do so, and that is without the inevitable intimidation and threats that would come from more sinister forces.
twopanda says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 06:08
Some credible reporting perchance: Full article;
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/call-for-green-to-surrender-his-rangers-shares.21050944
—————————————————————–
The Herald article beggars belief – are ‘senior investors’ at ‘institutional investors’ really as gullible as this person appears to be? Someone with a dodgy track record makes a sales pitch to him, against a background of plenty of ‘noise’ at the time about potentially funny things appearing to be going on with the administration and sale. Green and Ahmad supposedly ‘told him what he wanted to hear’, on which basis he thought the IPO was ‘good business’. But lo and behold, to his apparent amazement, ‘within four months of the IPO, we have this scandal.’
I begin to appreciate that along with avarice, negligence and an overblown sense of self-importance, the crash that brought down the banks must have also depended on such dim-wittedness and self-deluding naivety.
If that’s the calibre of sap that Green, Ahmad, Whyte and the rest have to deal with, is it any wonder they run rings around them?
Another great article from James Forest.The link from Ray Charles’s comment is also a real eye opener to the sordid world of tax avoidance and off shore shenanigans.
http://www.icij.org/offshore/secret-files-expose-offshores-global-impact
Happy Gothenburg everybody 😀
30 years ago today
Where has the time gone ?
nickmcguinness says:
Friday, May 10, 2013 at 19:46
100bjd at 17:31:
Vicast appears to be just an aspiring multimedia start-up fronted by Nicola Young, who comes from a well-respected media family. She was among the many RFC PLC creditors, being owed £3,500 by the deid club.
But the involvement of Peter Watson, Bain, Paul Murray and McLelland is intriguing.
Maybe Nicola just has a restricted circle of acquaintances. (;-0)
—————————————————————————————————————————
Why the dissaplication of exemption rights and why the stellar cast…..and why late last year. Why an existing employee of Rangers stating on linkedin that she is working for Vicast? Many why’s I am afraid.
twopanda says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 06:08
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Some credible reporting perchance: Full article;
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/call-for-green-to-surrender-his-rangers-shares.21050944
Could there be substance to this? ;-
`The executive at the investor said: “We invested in this at the IPO because we thought it was a good business. With Malcolm Murray as the chairman, we thought it was going to have good governance – I was at a presentation when Green was asked specifically if he had any relationship with Whyte, and he denied any.
“When we further analyse it and find Green got his five million shares for nominal value, we feel he should be giving them back. All he has done is bring disrepute to the club. His efforts have been negative. Malcolm Murray is a good, independent guy. The board should realign around him and Green should leave immediately.”`
And:
“A club spokesman said: ” …………. There is an ongoing independent inquiry into alleged links between Mr Green and Craig Whyte. Mr Green strenuously denies any wrongdoing and the club hopes the inquiry will be completed shortly………”
——————————————————————————————————————————
Some decent due diligence would have provided that CG’s shares were free in circa 30 minutes.
bill1903 says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 07:18
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Happy Gothenburg everybody 😀
30 years ago today
Where has the time gone ?
_______________________________________________
After Celtic’s winning the European Cup in my humble opinion, this was the greatest day in Scottish Football’s History.
ianagain says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 00:09
=======================
Getting into the Europa cup can be a money maker, if the fans go and support their team. If they don’t then it is just the same as any other tournament and will not make money.
The Champions League is a guaranteed money maker because of the prize / media money involved. The Europa has nothing like it from those areas.
If Celtic cannot qualify for the CL Group stage, which is entirely possible, but get into the Europa Group stage then they would make money. Nowhere near as much but it would be several million pounds.
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 06:40
100bjd says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 08:26
Undoubtedly true observations
Due diligence the key question
Good Morning Folks
Please forgive the plug but a new book on the Life and Times of Willie Wallace has just been published with contributions from Rod Stewart,Pat Woods, Archie McPherson, Willie Wallace himself and … well… Me!
Willie Wallace was one of Celtic’s Lisbon Lion and was the only member of that team who was “bought in” by Jock Stein and as such he has a very different story to tell from the rest of his team mates.
Willie grew up in Kirkintilloch ,and the book takes you through his childhood, School football, boys brigade football, Kilsyth Rangers, Stenhousemuir, Raith Rovers, Heart of Midlothian, Celtic, Dumbarton, Partick Thistle, Ross County and some of his time in Australia.
Willie also played at Wembley when Scotland defeated England by three goals to two and was assistant to Tommy Gemmell when big Tam was manager at Dundee.
There are all sorts of great players mentioned– those he played with and against– and a few strange ones he found himself on holiday with— including Bobby Moore!!
The book reveals some surprising facts and statistics and just tells a great story about a boy who just wanted to be a footballer in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s– and shows how very different a footballer’s life was then when compared to today!
All copies ordered this weekend will be signed by Willie himself and can be ordered here:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=ZxmYWxpuicMGvLqfSA-VfOnok8J4A6Rhr717qbnjIEU8JIk4Sl-Y1-Qz3N8&dispatch=50a222a57771920b6a3d7b606239e4d529b525e0b7e69bf0224adecfb0124e9b61f737ba21b081987dfed5c1e68334a2df49896030ab926d
Sorry for the intrusion.
I now return you to normal service.
Thanks for reading.
BRTH
carlislecelt says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 08:47
11 0 Rate This
bill1903 says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 07:18
Rate This
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Happy Gothenburg everybody
30 years ago today
Where has the time gone ?
_______________________________________________
After Celtic’s winning the European Cup in my humble opinion,
this was the greatest day in Scottish Football’s History.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There was that fleeting moment when Scotland went 3-1 up (through THAT goal) against Holland at Argentina ’78. We needed to win by 3 clear goals and, for the briefest of moments, I thought we might actually do this!
While on the subject of books ,how is elbows book doing ,has it soared through the magic 25 sales yet,nudging its way up the sales charts,64k question ,has anyone on here read it or even seen this publication ,do tell,I will check the bookshops for the Wispy book as I am off on holiday early next week and need some reading material,I think we are in for a quite weekend on here unless someone comes up with a nice distraction for us all to get into for the weekend,enjoy
Lord Wobbly says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 09:51
There was that fleeting moment when Scotland went 3-1 up (through THAT goal) against Holland at Argentina ’78. We needed to win by 3 clear goals and, for the briefest of moments, I thought we might actually do this!
——————————————
The absolute definition of the term ‘fleeting moment’ sadly.
carlislecelt says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 08:47
11 0 Rate This
bill1903 says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 07:18
I’d like to nominate John Clark’s thumping header against Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Alright, it didn’t win a trophy (which I suppose puts it behind other European triumphs), but it felt like it did at the time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdF_UyZ7Pk
Not a ball kicked on here for 90 mins!
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 06:40
f that’s the calibre of sap that Green, Ahmad, Whyte and the rest have to deal with, is it any wonder they run rings around them?
_______________________________________
Not so sure:
To be fair, the investement was 1%, which at flotation would have been £700K.
If you were a fund manager of a big fund, this would be peanuts, and could even form part of a sensible diversity of investment risk avoidance/ reward maximisation strategy:
Rather than scrutinise 2000 investments with full due diligence ahead of time, you might perform a sniff test on them, and split you money between sound stuff and casino bets. Then you focus efforts on the casino bet dogs later, while the stars take care of themselves. So you do the sniff test on RIFC then decide that this is a bit whiffy, but still good high risk bet for a small chunk of your dosh. Enough claims to tempt you in. Enough thinly veiled (but not overtly stated) jiggery pokery for you to storm out in a huff should the need arise.
And if you had sold out some of your holding at 94p, you would have made some money.
And if you were shorting the investment as it dropped through the 70s and 60s, you’d still be all right. And if you were then to cry ‘foul’ as it all went bad, because the rules had been broken, you might then play the righteous indignation/innocent victim card to e.g. get the share price down (more shorting), then get the share price up (if CG shares are binned, it undilutes everyone else’s holding), and if it all turns out to be a massive swindle, you can maybe sue those responsible for the impropriety and maybe get your money back. Whereas if it all went fine, you wouldn’t have given it a second thought.
Plenty of risk. But plenty of opportunity for reward as well possibly.
May I take the liberty of a reminder:-
Under SFA rules,
TRFC
would NOT be playing in the Scottish Football League AT ALL
and might reasonably have been banned from football ALTOGETHER
were it not for the SFA, who abandoned their own rule book
in order to protect RFC(IL)/TRFC from the proper consequences of it’s conduct.
.
This same SFA are still in Office
and continue to devote themselves to the TRFC intensive care unit at Hampden.
.
We need regime change at the SFA.
This has become Scottish Football’s number one priority.
.
Until the application of the Rule Book is restored to a ‘ without fear or favour ‘ basis
there is simply no point whatsoever in continuing to support football in this country.
.
Please think very very carefully before you renew/buy a season book for your club.
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 12:22
Not so sure:
To be fair, the investement was 1%, which at flotation would have been £700K.
————————————–
Plenty of ways to make money on those odd £700Ks lying around obviously. It’s a different world, and not one for the likes of me (that’s a principled stand incidentally, it’s not just that I don’t have the cash!)
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 12:22
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 06:40
f that’s the calibre of sap that Green, Ahmad, Whyte and the rest have to deal with, is it any wonder they run rings around them?
_______________________________________
Not so sure:
To be fair, the investement was 1%, which at flotation would have been £700K.
If you were a fund manager of a big fund, this would be peanuts, and could even form part of a sensible diversity of investment risk avoidance/ reward maximisation strategy:
————————————————————————————————————————–
resin…..excellent post. You obviously know what you are talking about as all the options you mention are still in play
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 12:22
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And of course underlying the shares are valuable chunks of land
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 09:40
—
I had a pleasant chat over a pint with Willie in O’Malley’s bar in Brisbane a couple of years ago when he was a guest of Brisbane Celtic ( for which team my son was then playing).
A very nice chap indeed, as self-effacing as ever. If you will be seeing him, pass on my warmest regards, please. He won’t remember me but he might remember the general occasion.
manandboy says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 12:49
That is clearly a matter for yourself, and I assume you won’t be spending money on Scottish football until things have been changed.
However other people may want to support their team, and watch their team play, in spite of the fact it has become perfectly clear that Scottish football is institutionally biased in favour of one group of supporters.
I won’t say one club because that club died, and a new one was formed by new owners. So it clearly isn’t the club. Logically then it must be the support they are biased in favour of, as they are the common factor between the old and new clubs.
25 years unbroken history neil lennon BRILLIANT
Sorry 125 years
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 13:59
I won’t say one club because that club died, and a new one was formed by new owners. So it clearly isn’t the club. Logically then it must be the support they are biased in favour of, as they are the common factor between the old and new clubs.
__________________________________________________________________________
Chipmonk, prior to Administration on 14 Feb 2012, The SFA favoured Rangers Football Club but I doubt they viewed the club as it’s component parts but rather as a whole.
I’d be very surprised indeed if the SFA has since changed it’s view.
@liveinhop
Thats better.
manandboy says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 14:36
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 13:59
I won’t say one club because that club died, and a new one was formed by new owners. So it clearly isn’t the club. Logically then it must be the support they are biased in favour of, as they are the common factor between the old and new clubs.
__________________________________________________________________________
Chipmonk, prior to Administration on 14 Feb 2012, The SFA favoured Rangers Football Club but I doubt they viewed the club as it’s component parts but rather as a whole.
I’d be very surprised indeed if the SFA has since changed it’s view.
==========================================================================
Rangers didn’t die when they went into administration, they died when the CVA was rejected and the club was formally placed into liquidation.
There are only two links between the new and old clubs, the assets that it owned and the people who support them. I think it’s unlikely that the Scottish football authorities are biased towards a football ground, training complex, car park etc, so it can really only be the support.
I’m not really fussed if a corrupt organisation considers them to be the same club, they aren’t. The way they were treated by the SFA, SPL and SFL shows that. If they were the same club then there would have been no need for a five way agreement, they would still be in the SPL, they would have gotten prize money for finishing second in the SPL, they would have been seeded in the cup … etc etc.