Good Afternoon.
Announcing outstanding financial successes for Rangers PLC the then Chairman of the club opened his Chairman’s report in the annual financial statements with the following words:
“Last summer I explained that the Club, after many years of significant investment in our playing squad
and more recently in our state of the art facility at Murray Park, had embarked on a three year business
plan to stabilise and improve the Club’s finances. The plan also recognised the need to react to the
challenging economic conditions facing football clubs around the world.
Following a trend over a number of years of increasing year on year losses, I am pleased to report that
in the first year of this plan we have made important progress by reversing this trend. Our trading loss
for last year of £11.2m reflects a £7.9m improvement versus the £19.1m loss for the previous year and
although it will take more time to completely reach our goals, this is a key milestone. We also intend to
make significant further progress by the end of the current financial year. This improvement is the
consequence of having a solid strategy and the commitment and energy to implement the changes it requires”
Later on in the same statement the chairman would add:
“Another key part of our plan is associated with the Rangers brand and our Retail Division goes from strength to strength. Our financial results this year have been significantly enhanced by an outstanding performance in merchandising Rangers products, in particular replica kit, which makes our Retail Division one of the most successful in Europe.”
In the same set of financial reports, the CEO would report:
“To further strengthen Rangers hospitality portfolio, a new dedicated sponsor’s lounge was unveiled this season. The Carling Lounge is a first for the Club and was developed in conjunction with our new sponsor, Carling. ”
and
“Our innovative events programme continues to grow and this year saw a record number of official events including the highly successful annual Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony, Player of the Year and 50 Championships Gala Dinner, all of which catered for up to 1000 guests.
At Rangers, we continually develop our portfolio of products and as a key area of income for the Club, we evaluate the market for new revenue opportunities on an ongoing basis in order to exceed our existing and potential customer expectations and needs.
Demand for season tickets reached an all time high last season with a record 42,508 season ticket holders in comparison with the previous season`s figure of 40,320. Over 36,000 of these season ticket holders renewed for this season – a record number.
For the new season, we are delighted to welcome brewing giant, Carling on board as our Official Club sponsor. Carling is one of the UK’s leading consumer brands with a proven track record in football sponsorship.
The Club also continues to work with a number of multinational blue chip brands such as National Car Rental, Sony Playstation 2, Bank of Scotland and Coca-Cola. This year, we will also experience the evolution of the Honda deal via Hyndland Honda and welcome the mobile communications giant T-Mobile to our ranks.”.
The year was 2003 and in the previous 24 months Rangers Football Club, owned and operated as a private fiefdom by Sir David Murray, had made operational losses of some £30 million.
Yes – 30 MILLION POUNDS.
Of course the chairman’s report for 2003 was written by John F Mclelland CBE and the CEO was one Martin Bain Esq.
As Mr Mclelland clearly stated, by 2003 the club already had a trend of increasing year on year losses covering a number of years and was losing annual sums which stretched into millions, if not tens of millions, of pounds.
However, the acquisition of Rangers Football Club was absolutely vital to David Murray’s personal business growth, and his complete control of the club as his own private business key was more important than any other business decision he had made before buying Rangers or since.
When he persuaded Gavin Masterton to finance 100% of the purchase price of the club, Murray had his finest business moment.
By getting control of Rangers, Murray was able to offer entertainment, hospitality, seeming privilege and bestow favour on others in a way that was hitherto undreamed of, and he bestowed that largesse on any number of “existing and potential clients” and contacts – be they the clients and contacts related to Rangers Football Club or the existing and potential clients of David Murray, his businesses, his banks, or anyone in any field that he chose to court for the purposes of potential business.
His business.
It wasn’t only journalists who benefited from the succulent lamb treatment.
Accountants,lawyers, surveyors, broadcasters, football officials, people in industry and construction, utilities, financiers and other areas of business were all invited inside the sacred House of Murray and given access to the great man of business “and owner of Rangers” while attending the “record number of official (hospitality) events”.
Twelve months on from when John McLelland made those statements in the 2003 accounts, David Murray was back in the chair at Ibrox and he presented the 2004 financials.
In the intervening 12 months Rangers had gained an additional £10 million from Champions League income and had received £8.6 million in transfer fees from the sale of Messrs Ferguson, Amoruso and McCann. Not only that, the Rangers board had managed to reduce the club’s wage bill by £5 million. Taking all three figures together comes to some £23.6 million in extra income or savings.
Yet, the accounts for 2004 showed that the club made an operational loss of almost £6 million and overall debt had risen by an additional £7 million to £97.4 million.
However, the 2004 accounts were also interesting for another reason.
Rangers PLC had introduced payments “to employees trusts” into their accounts for the first time in 2001 and in that year they had paid £1million into those trusts. Just three years later, the trust payments recorded in the accounts had risen to £7.3 million per annum — or to put it another way to 25% of the annual wage bill though no one in Scottish Football asked any questions about that!
By the following year, the chairman announced that the 2004 operational loss had in fact been £10.4million but that the good news was that the 2005 operational loss was only £7.8 million. However Rangers were able to post a profit before taxation if they included the money obtained from transfers (£8.4 million) and the inclusion of an extraordinary profit of £14,999,999 made on buying back the shares of a subsidiary company for £1 which they had previously sold for £15 million.
All of which added up to a whopping great profit of ……… £12.4 million!
I will leave you to do the maths on 2005.
Oh and of course these accounts included the detail that 3000 Rangers fans had joined David Murray in participating in the November ’94 share issue where the club managed to raise £51,430,995 in fresh capital most of which was provided by Mr Murray… sorry I mean MIH ….. sorry that should read Bank of Scotland …… or their shareholders……. or should that be the public purse?
The notable items in the 2006 accounts included the announcement of a ten year deal with JJB Sports to take over the merchandising operation of the club and increased revenue from an extended run in the Champion’s League. However, the profit before tax was declared at only£0.1 million in comparison to the £12.4 million of the year before but then again that £12.4 million had included player sales of £8.4 million and the £15 million sweety bonus from the repurchase of ones own former subsidiary shares for £1.
Jumping to 2008 Rangers saw a record year in terms of turnover which had risen to £64.5 million which enabled the company to record a profit on ordinary activities before taxation of £6.57 million although it should be pointed out that wages and bonuses were up at 77% of turnover and that a big factor in the Rangers income stream was corporate hospitality and the top line of income was shown as “gate receipts and hospitality”.
However, 2009 saw a calamitous set of figures. Whilst Alastair Johnston tried to put a brave chairman’s face on it, the year saw an operating loss of £17.325 million which was softened only by player disposals leading to a loss before taxation of a mere £14.085 million.
Fortunately Sir David did not have to report these figures as he chose to stand down as chairman in August and so Johnston stepped in and announced that he was deeply honoured to do so.
In 2010, the income stream jumped from £39.7 million to over £56 million with the result that the club showed a profit before taxation of £4.209 million.
However, by that time the corporate hospitality ticket that was Rangers Football Club was done for as a result of matters that had nothing to do with events on the football field in the main.
First, the emergence of the Fergus McCann run Celtic had brought a real business and sporting challenge. This was something that Murray had not previously faced in the football business.
Second,the Bank of Scotland had gone bust and Lloyds could not and would not allow Murray to continually borrow vast sums of money on the basis of revalued assets and outrageous hospitality.
Third, the UEFA fair play rules came into being and demanded that clubs at least act on a semblance of proper corporate governance and fiscal propriety.
Lastly,Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs tightened up the law on the use of EBT’s which meant that Rangers could no longer afford to buy in the players that brought almost guaranteed success against domestic opposition.
On average, since 2002 Rangers PLC had lost between £7 million – £8 million per year – or roughly £650,000 per month if you like – yet for the better part of a decade David Murray had been able to persuade the Bank of Scotland that this was a business that was worthy of ever greater financial support or that he himself and his MIH business was of such value that the Banks should support him in supporting the Ibrox club whilst operating in this fashion.
Of course, had Murray’s Rangers paid tax on all player remunerations then the losses would have been far larger.
Meanwhile, all the other clubs in Scottish football who banked with the Bank of Scotland faced funding cuts and demands for repayment with the bank publicly proclaiming that it was overexposed to the football market in Scotland.
But no one asked any questions about why the bank should act one way with Murray’s club but another way with all others. No one in football, no one in the media and no one from the world of business.
Looking back,it is hard to imagine a business which has been run on such a consistent loss making basis being allowed to continue by either its owners or by its bankers. However, a successful and funded Rangers was so important to the Murray group that David Murray was clearly willing to lose millions year after year to keep the Gala dinners and corporate hospitality going.
Rangers were Murray’s big PR vehicle and the club was essentially used by him to open the doors which would allow him to make more money elsewhere on a personal basis and if it meant Rangers cutting every corner and accumulating massive losses, unsustainable losses, then so be it.
Today, the new regime at Ibrox run the current business in a way which clocks up the same colossal annual losses whilst the club competes outwith Scotland’s top division. Each day we hear that the wage bill is unsustainable, that the playing staff are overpaid, that the stadium needs massive investment and that the fans are opposed to the stadium itself being mortgaged and the club being in hawk to lenders.
Yet, in the Murray era the Stadium was revalued time and time again and its revaluation was used as the justification for ever greater borrowing on the Rangers accounts. The playing staff were massively overpaid and financially assisted by the EBT’s and most years the Chairman’s annual statement announced huge losses despite regular claims of record season ticket sales, record hospitality income, European income, shirt sponsorship and the outsourcing of all merchandising to JJB sports instead of Sports Direct.
The comparison between the old business and the current one is clear for all to see.
It should be noted, that since the days of Murray, no major banking institution has agreed to provide the Ibrox business with any banking facilities. Not under Whyte, not under Green, not under anyone.
Yet few ask why that should be.
The destruction of the old Rangers business led those in charge of Scottish football to announce that Armageddon was on the horizon if it had not actually arrived, yet today virtually all Scottish clubs are in a better financial and business state than back in the bad old days of the Bank of Scotland financed SPL. Some have succumbed to insolvency, and others have simply cut their cloth, changed their structure, sought, and in some cases attracted, new owners and moved on in terms of business.
In general, Scottish Football has cleaned house at club level.
Now, David Murray has “cleaned house” in that MIH has bitten the dust and walked down insolvency road.
What is interesting is that the Murray brand still has that capacity to get out a good PR message when it needs to. Despite the MIH pension fund being short of money for some inexplicable reason, last week it was announced that the family controlled Murray Estates had approached those in charge of MIH and had agreed to buy some key MIH assets for something in the region of £13.9 million.
The assets concerned are land banks which at some point will be zoned for planning and which will undoubtedly bring the Murray family considerable profit in the future, with some of those assets already looking as if they will produce a return sooner rather than later.
However, what is not commented upon in the mainstream press is the fact that Murray Estates had the ability to pay £13.9 Million for anything at all and that having that amount of money to spend the Murray camp has chosen not to buy any football club down Govan way.
Perhaps, it has been realised that a football club which loses millions of pounds each year is not such a shrewd investment and that the Murray family money would be better spent elsewhere?
Perhaps, it has been realised that the culture of wining, dining, partying and entertaining to the most lavish and extravagant extent will not result in the banks opening their vaults any more?
Perhaps, it has been realised that the Rangers brand has been so badly damaged over the years that it is no longer the key to the golden door in terms of business, finance and banking and that running a football club in 2015 involves a discipline and a set of skills that David Murray and his team do not have experience of?
What is clear, is that the Murray years at Ibrox were not good for the average Rangers fan in the long term and that when you have a football club – any football club – being run for the private benefit of one rich individual, or group of individuals, then the feelings and passions of the ordinary fan will as often as not be forgotten when that individual or his group choose to move on once they have decided that they no longer wish to play with their toy football club.
David Murray did not make money directly out of Rangers Football Club. He used it as a key to open other doors for him and to get him a seat at other tables and into a different type of “club” altogether. He did not run the club in a day to day fashion that was designed to bring stability and prolonged financial, or playing, success to the club. its investors and its fans. He did not preside over Ibrox during a period of sustained financial gain.
Mike Ashley will not subsidise 2015 version of Rangers to anything like the same extent that the Bank of Scotland did in the 90’s and naughties.
However, Ashley, like Murray, will use his control of the Rangers brand to open doors for him elsewhere in the sports retail market, and he will use the Rangers contract with Sports Direct to make a handsome profit. He will also control all the advertising revenue just as he does at Newcastle. In short, Mr Ashley is only interested in The Rangers with a view to using it as a stepping stone to achieve other things elsewhere.
However, don’t take my word for any of this, take the opinion of someone who knows.
Mr Dave King is quoted today as saying the following about the current board of Directors who are in charge of the current Ibrox holding company.
“History will judge this board as one of the worst the club has ever had. There is not one individual who puts the club above personal interest.”
That is an interesting observation from a man who became a non executive director of the old Rangers holding company in 2000 and who had a front row pew for every set of accounts and all the financial statements referred to above.
Whether or not Mr King is a glib and shameless liar is a matter of South African judicial opinion. Whether or not he can spot someone who puts their own self interest ahead of the interests of Rangers Football Club and the supporters of the club is a matter that should be discussed over some fine wine, some succulent lamb and whatever postprandial entertainment you care to imagine.
I wonder if he has ever read the accounts of Rangers PLC and compared them to the corresponding accounts of MIH for the same period?
Not wanting to be too pedantic resin dog but you don’t get replays in the league cup 😳
rougvielovesthejungle says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Not wanting to be too pedantic resin dog but you don’t get replays in the league cup 😳
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Penalties then?
He wasn’y going after the jugular anyway. Tried to bore – like with the League cup final against Aberdeen – them rather than play as ICT can.
Too much respect. Treated them like they were Aberdeen. His tactics were based on their wage bill, rather than their form.
No such fear next time.
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 8, 2015 at 5:22 pm
The best outcome for everyone is for TRFC fans to put their own house in order and defuse a potentially incendiary situation, by ensuring that decorum is maintained and undesirable elements are held in check.
The fear is that flames get fanned by dog whistling from RRM like King instead.
Using the choice of venue as a weapon against the board is a weapon that can only backfire on decent TRFC fans.
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The potentially incendiary situation has been created IMO by the Board deliberately picking a tiny venue which can only hold a fraction of the fans who wish to attend the general meeting.
This has been compounded by locating the venue in London when the bulk of the support and shareholders are based in and around the Glasgow area and NI.
IMO it appears to be a deliberate ploy to spark an extreme reaction from fans who are already up in arms over the standard of football at Ibrox, the actions of the current and previous Boards, and worry their club is again heading for liquidation.
I simply cannot see any decent Rangers fan or shareholder accepting the venue for the general meeting as being anything other than an inflamatory move.
As an impartial observer it’s easy for me to see that there certainly is a lot of dog-whistling and PR moves underway and it doesn’t all come from King’s side.
If mayhem breaks out in London then IMO the Board will bear a great responsibility for picking a totally unsuitable venue.
Even the 9pm kick-off is a joke as anyone who has struggled to move about London in the rush hour knows full well. I would say 11pm would have been a more acceptable time. But everything seems designed to make it as difficult as possible for shareholders to attend the meeting.
It’s almost as if the fans have no importance in whatever is being planned for Ibrox in future. If I was a Rangers fan I would certainly be very worried because of the income streams the club is losing and also the assets at risk in the event of insolvency.
And if ST sales plummet even further then I struggle to see that there is any future for Rangers. Perhaps that’s another reason why Bears are getting so agitated – they possibly are doing the same sums.
On the subject of burning through the loan it would seem (if the source below is correct) that Ian Black is now doing his bit to the tune of 10k per week 😮
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/02/ian-black-wage-increase.html?
Whilst not by any means the greatest catastrophe to befall Rangers in the last couple of weeks, today shows how completely corrupted they have become. Aside from the devastating loss of morale contributed to solely by the off-field politics, the failure to deal with that is adding to a spiral of decline that is tailspin-spectacular. And we all know how difficult it is to get out of a tailspin.
Leaving aside who is to blame for the current situation, I was struck today that the board would most definitely need to sacrifice Kenny McDowell and offer his sacking up to the fans. I was further struck by the realisation that the board are in no way motivated to appease the fans in any matter. They appear to have no incentive to get some of them onside.
Whatever is going on in Govan, the main motivation has nothing whatsoever to with a football team.
In fact, if you had gotten a very wealthy Celtic or Dons fan to buy them and spend some time mischievously dismantling the fabric of the club stitch by stitch, isn’t this how you would expect it to pan out?
In other words, wtf are they playing at?
parttimearab says:
February 8, 2015 at 6:57 pm
Are we seeing the effect of players who are out of contract at the end of the season, unlikely to get a fresh offer (not to mention any resentment re the newcomers) ❓
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I think it would be nigh impossible to dismiss that suggestion. It also strikes me that as more of the loan players become available then the effect could be even more pronounced.
I just can’t see where the money will come from to refurb the team as a mass clear-out is required. I can’t help but think that not getting promotion this year might suit better financially.
I suppose it depends how many potential loan players are left at NUFC. But I suppose we’ll need to wait for the general meeting result and the SFA fudge to see how the wind is blowing.
It certainly is an utter shambles at the moment and many of the signs point to it getting much worse.
On the subject of moderation this afternoon, depressingly I had to remove several posts concerning Bobby Madden. It seems that some people just don’t want to listen to the mods.
Here’s one thing I know for a fact.
I have no idea what Bobby Madden’s motivation is for the decisions he makes.
Consequently,
In the absence of proof to the contrary, I will assume he goes about his work as honestly and professionally as he can.
In the absence of proof to the contrary, so should everyone else when they are posting here.
The Scottish Cup quarter finals will have just 3 SPFL teams in the final 8.
ICT, Celtic and Dundee United. There could even be a non league team in the final 8. If the draw pairs two of the SPFL teams then at the semifinals there can only be two teams. If they are drawn in the semi then a lower league team will be in the Scottish Cup final. Scotland needs a strong Queeen of the South.
Hearts must be cursing their luck at the third round draw. With so many SPL teams falling by the wayside, they might well have been in with a real chance – and Hibs will be thinking that too.
Perhaps the Jambos may be satisfied with the consolation that their early cup exit has given them a full tilt at the league – although I suspect that even with hindsight, they wouldn’t have expected this much headroom.
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm
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In terms of an extreme reaction I think a more immediate issue surrounds the game on Friday 13th February v Hibernian. I hope that any fans leaders who call for protests outside the ground realise just what they might be encouraging, whether they mean to or not.
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm
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I see your point eco, but after the scenes at the Hearts non-match, what is the best way forward to avoid trouble?
A mass confrontation in Central Glasgow? I think not!
All shareholders can vote with the current arrangements. Company law will be satisfied.
Do you think fewer trouble makers would attend Glasgow or London? I think the latter.
GMs are stage managed to the nth degree.
Resolutions are set before hand.
Voting is possible without physical attendance.
There is simply no need to make a flashpoint out of a piece of anodyne corporate business, when instead you can make a piece of anodyne corporate business out of a potential flashpoint.
The boards move can be interpreted as an honest attempt to minimise the potential for civil disorder.
The fan shareholders can exercise their vote as they please without the necessity for a televised lynching of the encumbent executives.
I think King is dog whistling and I have no time for that ilk.
It’s an odd statement for the club to make this evening about the Board’s non attendance at today’s game.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/8486-club-statement
upthehoops says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:45 pm
I tend to agree with you.
Though a lot of the problems at the Hearts match would have been as a result of the abandonment, the fact that many bears see Hibs as Celtic’s cousins will only add oil to the fire. If there is another protest, and maybe this would be a good reason to let the supporters know early that the board won’t be in attendance, and feelings run high, then a repeat battle is very likely.
I hope for a Hibs win, for the benefit of Hearts and, in my opinion, Scottish football. But a win for TRFC might just keep the Glasgow NHS a bit quieter – on Friday the 13th!
@EJ I wonder if the board and whoever gave the advice are now regretting the decision given today’s massive 😉 turnout
easyJambo says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:55 pm
Strangely put, but I think they should do something similar well in advance of next Friday’s match, for reasons I’ve noted above.
Fisiani 19:
FFS there are seven SPFL teams still in the cup.
Pedantic? Aye, but it’s an inexcusable mistake this far into the new set up
Some interesting snaps from today’s game on the Willie Vass site.
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/080215-Rangers-v-Raith-Rovers/G0000.iy2qRLPmnY/I0000WEf3udJ1zsM/C00006DiGYgk8MHY
😳
Michael Stewart also bewildered by the thuggish Mr McCulloch:
easyJambo says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:55 pm
It’s an odd statement for the club to make this evening about the Board’s non attendance at today’s game.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/8486-club-statement
“IT is regrettable that the Board of Rangers Football Club were not in attendance at today’s important Scottish Cup tie against Raith Rovers.
Given the events over the past few days and after advice from the Club, the decision was made not to attend the game.
The Board has a duty of care to the fans, staff and stewards to ensure safety at the ground at all times and they believe this was the correct decision.”
==================================================================
At what point does a club and its’ supporters bring Scottish Football into disrepute? When a Board is moved to publically announce that they are unable to attend their own games due to threats of violence?
With the global focus on this and another club claimed by the authorities, SMSM and past players then surely we have arrived at that point?
The Scottish Football Authorities need to take action against this club now or more people are going to get hurt.
Should a temporary withdrawal of TRFC licence to play to allow a cooling down period be considered? It could take in both the EGM and MA hearing. BTW I also have in mind recent thuggish player behaviour that at some point might cause onfield conflict that could easily spill over onto the terraces where feelings are running high.
This might seem extreme but we are at a very strange and dangerous point in the short history of this club.
Danish Pastry says,
February 8 2015. @ 8.31pm
It was almost an action replay of an incident involving Griffiths last week.
Willie Woodburn, a wonderful Rangers and Scotland centre half, was suspended “sine die” for less.
TSFM says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:34 pm
On the subject of moderation this afternoon, depressingly I had to remove several posts concerning Bobby Madden…
———–
To be fair, apart from the rugby tackle from Black and McCulloch’s assault (which he may not have seen) I felt he was fairly impartial. A few 50/50 free kicks went to Raith, especially in the critical final minutes.
But how good were Raith? A pleasure to watch a modestly funded team produce a well-drilled, tactically astute performance, full of fight and heart. Everything that I really like about Scottish football. Club and board have been seldom heroes over these past few years. Every time I see a performance like this I regret the insular nature of the top tier with its 4 x fixtures. Bigger league please.
If the Willie Vass’ estimation of about 8,700 is correct it’s not much of a payday for either club, although you feel Raith, at least, will take it in their stride. Goodness knows what mounted police and extra officers cost 😯
PS @oddjob, it was almost identical. You’d think officials would be watching out for what is repetitive and dangerous behaviour.
Danish Pastry says:
February 8, 2015 at 9:06 pm
If the Willie Vass’ estimation of about 8,700 is correct it’s not much of a payday for either club, although you feel Raith, at least, will take it in their stride. Goodness knows what mounted police and extra officers cost 😯
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As the takings from ticket sales are split after the deduction of match costs, I wonder if those costs will include the extra security for what is TRFC’s own problems and an added cost that surely have nothing to do with the game itself!
easyJambo says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:55 pm
It’s an odd statement for the club to make this evening about the Board’s non attendance at today’s game.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/8486-club-statement
“IT is regrettable that the Board of Rangers Football Club were not in attendance at today’s important Scottish Cup tie against Raith Rovers.
Given the events over the past few days and after advice from the Club, the decision was made not to attend the game.
The Board has a duty of care to the fans, staff and stewards to ensure safety at the ground at all times and they believe this was the correct decision.”
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I’ve been puzzling over that statement because the tiny remaining band of fans, stewards and staff were at the ground and the only ones missing were the directors.
From what I can gather the hard-core demonstrators are in total boycott mode and aren’t in the ground either.
It seems to me that strenuous efforts are being made to big-up the civil disobedience line again but this time IMO it’s coming from the club and their PR machine.
If that’s the case then it’s a very dangerous game to play in an already emotionally heated situation. One can only wonder what the events of the last few days has been and what advice the club has given the directors that has made them abandon the Directors’ Box.
It’s like the old days when Green was on the run from fans in fear of his life and flitting from safe-house to safe-house.
The statement made by the club leads me to the conclusion that the Directors or their advisors are implying there is some kind of threat to their life or physical well-being: Why else would you quit the stadium.
All very strange indeed.
redlichtie says:
February 8, 2015 at 8:49 pm
At what point does a club and its’ supporters bring Scottish Football into disrepute? When a Board is moved to publically announce that they are unable to attend their own games due to threats of violence?
The Scottish Football Authorities need to take action against this club now or more people are going to get hurt.
Should a temporary withdrawal of TRFC licence to play to allow a cooling down period be considered? It could take in both the EGM and MA hearing.
BTW I also have in mind recent thuggish player behaviour that at some point might cause onfield conflict that could easily spill over onto the terraces where feelings are running high.
This might seem extreme but we are at a very strange and dangerous point in the short history of this club.
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Have there been threats of violence against the directors?
Withdrawing the footballing license would be akin to throwing petrol on a fire and certainly wouldn’t cool anything down.
I was wondering what the ‘recent thuggish player behaviour that at some point might cause onfield conflict that could easily spill over onto the terraces where feelings are running high’ actually was.
I really think we have to try and deal with facts and not fan the flames till we separate the truth from the smoke and mirrors which appear to be suddenly much in evidence wrt mass violence and civil unrest.
The way crowds are collapsing at Ibrox there isn’t enough left IMO to create a mini-riot let alone a good-going rammy.
https://archive.today/Wf2gX
I am posting this link to a Daily Mail report on today’s game, not because it’s a good match report (which it is) but because it brought back happy memories (even as a Celtic fan) of one of Scotland’s greatest ever players, Jim Baxter, who according to the report, scored for Raith the last time they beat Rangers at Ibrox, in 1959.
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Have there been threats of violence against the directors?
================
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/sandy-easdale-calls-in-police-over-death-threats-1-3668759
Sadly, yes.
I thought Raith were terrible in the first half, could not pass a ball.
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:48 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm
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What is the best way forward to avoid trouble? A mass confrontation in Central Glasgow? I think not!
All shareholders can vote with the current arrangements. Company law will be satisfied.
Do you think fewer trouble makers would attend Glasgow or London? I think the latter. GMs are stage managed to the nth degree. Resolutions are set before hand. Voting is possible without physical attendance.
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Well you might think this is all about an anodyne bit of corporate business and I’m sure the Rangers Board has the same opinion.
However to actual Rangers football fans – no matter what camp they are in – this is anything but ‘anodyne’. This is about the life or death of their club and they are deeply emotional about it. Having been about for a long time I can understand their anguish as a Celtic supporter whose club stood on the brink of destruction.
Perhaps it’s all a bit of a nuisance to City Types who don’t want any emotion rearing its ugly head at the general meeting of a football club. If that’s the case don’t invest in football clubs.
You ask what’s the best way to avoid trouble – well the Board shouldn’t have created a flash-point by selecting an unsuitable venue and location.
I really think you need to turn-down the wattage a bit as suggestions of: ‘A mass confrontation in Central Glasgow’ is a tad excitable IMO.
I think we get your point that people don’t need to attend the meeting to cast their vote. However some do want to and some also want to barrack the Board.
That to me shows a Board in which a very large % of fans have lost faith in and no longer trust and indeed appear to be unable to hold meaningful discussions with.
Even the elected official Rangers Fan Board have passed a motion of No Confidence in this Board. And that was before they were fed the wrong date for the general meeting.
I have to say watching events unfold recently at Ibrox I have found it hard to believe that so many management errors are taking place. And I have to ask myself can they really all be accidental?
Is it just me or is the threatening behaviour towards the Rangers board being glossed over in the media? They can’t even attend a game and now one of them has allegedly received death threats.The media have tied their flag to Dave King but surely in the interests of common decency this threatening behaviour should be roundly condemned.
You do not make money running a football club, well what I should say is you should not make money running a football club. It should run to serve its communities and countries fans it resides in.
Rangers as everyone knows should have used their problems in the past 3 years to build a good young team but instead they filled the team with internationals and seasoned pro’s that they could not afford, this in turn allowed them to charge back to the top ‘drubbing’ the part timers en route.
Rules were re-interpreted to assist the journey and our governors of a once beautiful game were caught in the headlights, having no experience to regulate and provide direction, out of their depth it seems.
How do we get this game back on track.
We need change at the top and the SFA moving from Hampden as well would also be a step in the right direction.
Rangers fans need to unite properly – they need to focus on football instead of all the factions. This united group must disown those who cannot control their behavior. Once they have a fully united fan base,they have complete control.
Firstly they arrange a boycott – friendly in nature for the remaining home games. They force the board to either take them seriously, otherwise they will run up more and more debt.
The risk is that the club will fold but a Rangers restarting properly would be a better position than now. What ever happens, the fans must not return until all those currently involved have left and have no influence on income streams. If this does not happen, the club will be handicapped by those in charge and will struggle from season to season,even getting some old faces on the MA board will be damaging in the long term.
The last point is the mindset that calls for a Rangers man, a sugar daddy, a billionaire, must end. The club must be run within its means, it does not need Murray Park to develop players, it does not need MA to make merchandise and it does not need directors who have had a dubious track record. Take back your club peacefully and create a sustainable future.
It is in your hands
AGM’s can on occasions be colourful…however by the very nature that any company calls an EGM then I would expect it to not only be colourful but meaty..
All shareholders have the right to attend regardless of where it is held…with everything that is happening then it is absolutley correct an EGM is held…if there is a a concern over security then the Company should take all measures necessary including hiring additional security staff to counter any perceived disruptive behaviour…
One gets the feeling the club statement today was designed to add weight to the justification of holding the EGM in London.
PS. any shareholder wishing a proxy to attend on his/her behalf then I would happily oblige…although I will only be happy to vote and not throw punches
I was just wondering how the London Hotel will be feeling when they hear that the directors of The Rangers Football Club en masse decided it was unsafe to attend and watch an important match in Ibrox stadium.
Should fill them with a great deal of confidence 🙄
I see some Bear posters seem to think that the decision not to attend the match was to bolster the decision to move the general meeting to London in case AIM query the move.
Paulmac2 says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:46 pm
All shareholders have the right to attend regardless of where it is held
————————————————————
Not actually correct in Rangers’ case. Their Articles of Association allow them to limit the numbers and apparently decide who gets to attend.
I have dealt with it in detail on earlier posts today.
Up until now, I genuinely did not believe that the current board of T’Rangers had crashing the bus as their endgame. I really didn’t.
It does now appear, however, that there can be no other plan.
Such is their insistence on poking the support with a selection of increasingly large and unsavoury sticks, that it appears impossible that anything else can be even remotely on the cards.
Given that Ashley parks his tanks on your front lawn. Given that he never loses. Given that there is no prospect of their support returning whilst the current board have any involvement, it seems that Mr Ashley is about to do the previously unthinkable.
Separate the logical from the emotional. Stuff the dying entity full of debt, his debt. Make it so that there’s only one possible final page.
They’re circling the drain as we speak and the speed seems to increase exponentially with every day, every passing mad outburst.
Strange, strange times.
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:48 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm
___________________________________________________
well the Board shouldn’t have created a flash-point by selecting an unsuitable venue and location.
I really think you need to turn-down the wattage a bit as suggestions of: ‘A mass confrontation in Central Glasgow’ is a tad excitable IMO.
_________________________________________________
The people who should ‘turn down the wattage’ are the ones making threats.
The ones who attacked people and property at the Hearts fixture!
Or did the board choose an ‘unsuitable location’ for that event too?
There is alot wrong with the current RIFC board.
But there is also a great deal wrong with with some elements of the TRFC support, as evidenced from the choir last week and the shambolic scenes we have seen at the abandoned Hearts fixture.
I’d rather the two didn’t meet where innocent bystanders might be hurt.
In such circumstanes – ‘ an anodyne piece of corporate business’ is a reflection of my ambition for the EGM, – the alternatve being a likely public order disaster. The former can advance the aims of the decent TRFC fans just as effectively as the latter, which should be avoided by all right thinking persons.
That was my contention.
Cool heads.
In short – I don’t believe the Board are actually guilty of selecting an unsuitable venue and location.
I believe dog whistlers are guilty of using a sensible choice of venue – in corporate terms – as a reason for stirring up avoidable trouble.
It will be interesting to see how many turn up on friday night for the hibs game.
upthehoops says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Is it just me or is the threatening behaviour towards the Rangers board being glossed over in the media? They can’t even attend a game and now one of them has allegedly received death threats.The media have tied their flag to Dave King but surely in the interests of common decency this threatening behaviour should be roundly condemned.
—————————————————————
Has there been any threatening behaviour towards the Rangers Board? If the SMSM ran with that rather strange Rangers press release without digging deeper I would be the first to castigate them.
I haven’t heard of the death threats being mentioned but as I mentioned earlier we were told way back that Green had received them as well. I don’t remember any evidence being produced for that either and he survived and prospered.
The press release is a bit strange as well where the ‘club’ gave the advice which led to the decision not to attend. If there were serious concerns and an alleged death threat should Police Scotland not have been contacted?
When this story first surfaced on Friday IIRC the advice appears to have come from Rangers’ security which puzzled me as I would have thought that perhaps any threats would have been directed to individual Board members either at their home address or via Ibrox.
That may well have happened of course and perhaps it was brought to the attention of the Security guy at Ibrox who thought it was a serious enough threat to advise non-attendance at the game.
But I still believe Police Scotland must have been informed. Perhaps they have a ‘hot’ lead and have persuaded papers not to run anything at the moment in case it prejudices their enquries.
Bears are now wondering whether that means they aren’t coming back to any games and generally welcoming that and a few have remarked that the Board’s started boycotting as well 😆
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:53 pm
…………………
Of course I should have added…depending on the class of share you have
Thanks for the correction echo
Its about time TRFC fans accepted that their club does not belong to them. It never did and it never will
The idea that the board is somehow accountable to the customers is just nonsense.
TRFC is just another limited company that happens to operate in a business sector called Scottish football. Same as all the rest of the companies
Thats just the way it is.
If there is one thing I agree with King is that he is correct when he says Rangers( new co of course) are in danger of becoming irrelevant to a younger generation, maybe that’s a good thing but certainly a point worth debating.Scottish football as it is currently, nationally and domestically needs to find success in Europe for folk to sit up and take notice.
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 8, 2015 at 11:09 pm
The people who should ‘turn down the wattage’ are the ones making threats.
The ones who attacked people and property at the Hearts fixture!
Or did the board choose an ‘unsuitable location’ for that event too?
—————————————————————-
What ‘threats’ are being made and where? I keep hearing about all these threats without any detail to substantiate them and it smells like an organised PR campaign to me.
The Board was responsible for an ‘unsuitable location’ for the Heart’s Match IMO because there remains serious questions to be answered over when the undersoil heating was turned-on and the failure to clear the pitch.
On the night of the Hearts Game there appeared to me to be a breakdown at various levels involving the police and the club which resulted in a series of unfortunate incidents occuring.
I made a number of detailed posts after the game pointing out where IMO things were mishandled and contributed to the violence that took place and I doubt if there is anything I can usefully add to those observations. If you are interested you can check them out.
Sadly there is always the risk of violence surrounding football matches and Rangers have no monopoly in that department. But I have seen no evidence that it was the anti-Board demonstrators that attacked Hearts fans and buses.
Indeed I think the major contributing factor was the crazy decision to allow both sets of fans to leave together that sparked the problem. The debacle and peculiar circumstances surrounding the abandoned game make it a bad one to draw general conclusions from unless you have specific facts and information to support the conclusions. If you have then please share.
Goosy my father never followed football and when as a child I wanted to go see Celtic he used to say why would I want to support what is a private company, football loyalty is a funny thing
… And anyway echo… I think the more fundamental thing that should be exercisng the decent TRFC fans is that – whatever the outcome of the EGM – it is not really a solution that moves them forward.
In some ways, it is THE ultimate squirrel.
I genuinely believe King is a disaster waiting to happen for the whole of Scottish football. The man is an out an out crook. I can write that without fear of libel ,because I can point to judges that agree with me on this.
We’ve seen history of the ability of bears to believe what they want to believe in the face of available evidence, and where this tends to get them. This is happening before our eyes again.
King would just write the next chapter in a sorry saga. A short term ‘fix’ for the bears – in the sense of a drug, not a solution. More the epitome of their problem in fact.
Ashley is – for the bears – the wrong type of billionaire. He has his own agenda and smells ‘regulatory capture’.
What they need is a strategy, that allows them to be rid of both, instead of being the meat in the sandwich between them.
Their passion hasn’t helped them thus far.
Their loyalty hasn’t helped them thus far.
Their money hasn’t helped them thus far.
Their numbers haven’t helped them this far.
Time they tried something different… ?
GoosyGoosy says:
February 8, 2015 at 11:39 pm
Its about time TRFC fans accepted that their club does not belong to them. It never did and it never will
The idea that the board is somehow accountable to the customers is just nonsense.
TRFC is just another limited company that happens to operate in a business sector called Scottish football. Same as all the rest of the companies
Thats just the way it is.
———————————————————-
You may be legally correct but emotionally I think that many Celtic fans have very similar views to Bears on the point in question.
However shareholders do own a Plc and that is worth remembering because there are approx 5,000 fan shareholders who IMO will never be able to build a significant shareholding in RIFC Plc despite there drive to do so.
However perhaps if this current incarnation collapses there might be a realistic opportunity of at least having a significant stake in a new club.
Fortunately Hope Springs Eternal 😎
The Cat NR1 says:
February 8, 2015 at 1:30 pm
“A debunking of myths and misinformation page that stands apart from the general debating section would make it a useful resource for those that dip and out of the site.”
—————————————
What about a TSFM Wiki?
There are a range of topics that are and have been regularly discussed. These might be distilled down to individual Wiki articles with references to comments and information sources.
There is a rich cast list that could be plundered to consider specific individuals and their fundamental roles. There are a host of documents (5 way agreement, LNS verdict, Tax case decisions etc) that all could be referenced or themselves dissected in detail.
Perhaps if individual pages were set up to start with, contributors might be tempted to fill them up with their knowledge. I have only a basic understanding of Wiki’s but I beleive there is a background discussion and editing process that passes content via the site moderators for insertion.
We all have our own personal motives for posting on and reading TSFM. I think that our own motives are often betrayed in the way we express ourselves. If the language of the articles could be (in due course) formalised, then perhaps a more moderate portrayal of events will be rendered that any curious visitor would perceive to be authentic.
It might be a bit time consuming to start with but once its up and running perhaps folk will be able to share some responsibility.
Paulmac2 says:
February 8, 2015 at 11:19 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:53 pm
…………………
Of course I should have added…depending on the class of share you have
——————————————
Afaik there is only one class of share in RIFC Plc. But as I pointed out being a shareholder does not entitle you to attend a general meeting because the Articles of Association of RIFC Plc restrict attendance viz:
Without having access to the extensive research skills (of ecobhoy for instance) to substantiate talk of threats against RIFC/TRFC directors, I am pretty sure and safe in the knowledge that these threats are real.
My two main reference points here (if we leave out the threats against Charles Green – just to be safe) are;
the demonstration outside Ibrox on the night of the non-Hearts match, when threats were in evidence (if “we know where you live – and your hoose is gettin’ torched!” is a threat), and:
the police investigation into the threats against the Easdale bros a few months ago.
Whether or not the board are using these incidents to their advantage in their political to-ings and fro-ings, I do not know, but I think it is a very contrarian position to deny their existence.
In fact a quick look at the dark s__ – oops :irony: – Rangers fans sites would give one grounds to think that these threats are not of the phantom variety.
McCulloch incident today was talked about on Sportscene. Diplomatic language from Stuart McCall and Pat Nevin, but pretty scathing. I think the fact that this “new back of the head” trick is developing into a pattern has put old Jig on the radar.
Not for the sake of banning him or anything else, but wouldn’t it be a gesture of TRFC were to have a public word in his ear about it? Leaving it be could see someone suffering a serious injury.
Anyway, off to bed. No mods on until early o’clock, so be good folks 🙂
eco;
Police Scotland are treating the information they have received seriously enough to mount regular patrols past ‘at-risk’ addresses. This is being treated as a very real, very credible threat, NOT a PR invention.
Still on the alleged threats to the Rangers directors. Why should they have to stay away from the ground simply because idiots can’t act responsibly? If Rangers do get promoted will the same idiots get to dictate which directors of the opposing SPL clubs are allowed to attend? I go back to the point I made earlier regarding how the media are reporting this. Just because they are utterly desperate to get rid of this Rangers board doesn’t mean this deplorable type of behaviour and threats should be airbrushed. Whatever is the way ahead for Scottish football it certainly isn’t mob rule.
EVERY now and then this unrelenting Rangers debacle descends beyond the surreal and delves deep into the realms of the utterly ridiculous.
The sudden arrival on the scene last Thursday of a would-be new owner – an Indian tycoon by the name of Lalit Modi – was precisely one of those bolt between the eyes moments.
On the face it this unexpected plot twist might have appeared to be no more than a highly amusing diversion from the main event, the March 4 egm which will determine if this club is to be saved from itself or sentenced to death by self-destruction.
And right on cue into the madness walks this cricket-mad semi billionaire with convictions for conspiracy to traffic cocaine and kidnapping and who lives under 24-hour protection in London in fear of underworld assassins (or at least whenever he’s not nightclubbing with Shilpa Shetty off Big Brother).
A man described by those who know about his hard-nosed approach to making money as India’s answer to Mike Ashley (x 100). Yes, why wouldn’t someone with such credentials want to pay through the nose for a seat inside the old Ibrox odditorium? And why wouldn’t they do so right now? At this very moment, the most toxic and volatile in 144 years of all things Rangers?
All the latest news from Ibrox
Lalit Modi
In fact, never mind Rangers, it is hard to recall the fans of any other club in any other league at any other point in history becoming so universally revulsed by its directors.
Less than 12,000 of them paid to watch yesterday’s Scottish Cup tie against Raith Rovers which merely amplified the eerie, end-of-days noise which has wrapped itself around this club.
Furious pre-match protests outside the front door while, inside, vast blocks of empty blue seats framed by a garish barrage of Sports Direct advertising.
A team led by a stand-in manager who can hardly wait to be relieved of his duties and freed to pick up his secateurs, having been forced to pick players of whom he has no knowledge. Crashing out of the Cup at home to Raith Rovers without so much as a whimper?
My goodness Rangers in its current state is an embarrassment of a football club. An empty shell with no heart or soul.
And from nowhere Modi wants to blow £40m to get control of this putrid mess?
On the face of it the very idea seems so far fetched, so jaw droppingly ludicrous it’s almost begging to be dismissed out of hand.
But consider this: What if it’s not?
What if, far from mistakenly walking into the wrong Bollywood movie, Modi has been watching this farce develop from a distance for quite some time? What if this late run for power is more than just a diversionary tactic?
What if it’s real and part of a wider plan to protect the interests of some of the shadowy figures who have been lurking in the background?
Wouldn’t that make more sense than the supposed reality of Modi’s misty-eyed motives to be involved?
It might certainly explain why, late in July 2013, Rafat Rizvi (remember him?) attended a luxurious VIP bash at a villa in Barbados, just a couple of hundred yards along the beach from the world-renowned Sandy Lane Hotel to celebrate the launch of a new big-money cricket venture, the Caribbean Premier League.
Rizvi’s links to the Charles Green consortium and his position on Interpol’s most wanted list are, of course, well established.
But who knew he had friends in such high places in the multi-million pound cricket empire? Well, chances are Modi might as this is his world too.
Modi set up the blueprint for this very venture when he launched the Indian Premier League, a money- making machine. It’s not known if he too was at that same party that same night but the villa is owned by Ajmal Khan, who was credited with transporting the idea of a Premier League franchise from India to the Caribbean.
It might be coincidental that Modi’s cousin, Satish Kumar Modi, sat on the board of Royal Holdings Services Ltd, a London-based funding company owned by Khan.
But it is interesting to note Rizvi talked openly of his involvement in Rangers to other guests that night. Rizvi and Modi are both now based in London.
Also of interest, although from February of that same year, was the short notice cancellation of an Ibrox board meeting in order that Green – still chief executive at the time – could meet an unnamed wealthy Indian businessman in Dubai.
Again, this could be purely coincidental but then, where Rangers are concerned, often it is better to remove the word “coincidence” from the conversation.
Modi has declined to answer or return several phone calls from this office. But in a statement released to the BBC last week he confirmed initial discussions about a takeover had begun. It’s understood those talks have been held with Sandy Easdale who represents the very 26 per cent holding to which Rizvi’s name is attached.
You may also recall Easdale and Rizvi were pictured by this paper last year when they met with a bunch of mysterious Malaysians in a Glasgow city restaurant.
It is ironic Easdale and the club’s other directors would now rather be seen anywhere else but in the home city of their club. None of them were sat in their own directors box yesterday and so unwelcome do they feel that they have chosen to stage next month’s egm 500 miles away in a hotel in Kensington.
VIEW GALLERY
Thousands of outraged Rangers shareholders are already preparing to stampede over the border.
But one wrong move by any of them, inside or outside the Millennium Hotel, could lead to the postponement of the very meeting they have fought so hard for.
Perhaps it would be wiser to vote in advance either by post or by proxy and to leave London well alone.
This Rangers board may well grab any chance to cause a further 28-day delay to the vote Dave King firmly believes will wipe it out.
This meeting is the only viable opportunity for the weeping sore that is Rangers to be properly disinfected.
King may well have his own reputational problems but his reasons for getting involved are not in dispute.
It says it all about this wacky race for control of Ibrox that a man with 41 criminal tax convictions looks like the only one in whom the Rangers fans are able to place their trust.
Try today’s sports quiz:
Score – 0 of 0
Question – 1 of 5
Where is Rangers shareholder Dave King based?
Australia
South Africa
USA
I listened to the BBC Radio Scotland podcast from Sunday and I was surprised to hear Kenny McDowall giving a post-match interview. I thought that The Rangers “did not talk to the BBC”. Have I missed something?
When did this long standing policy change? We demand to know…… etc. etc. etc.
Rangers fans are utterly culpable in the situation the club finds itself in. From the lunatics attacking old men and women, through the boycotters led up the garden path by King, through the “spokesmen” of limited intelligence and unlimited bile, through the idiots that see King as some sort of solution, through the gullible believers in DR and SMSM spin, as a group they have either allowed the club to get to this position or actively forced the club into it.
No sympathy can or should be given to such a support base.
Good morning all,
On the TU/TD thing, Facebook (which as we know is a wee bit bigger but not as interesting as TSFM) in the early days used to have TU/TD buttons, but after looking into the pros and cons of this they dropped them and replaced them with a ‘like’ only button. There is much debate about bringing it back, link below has some info if anyone is interested.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/12/no-dislike-button-for-facebook-declares-zuckerberg
King may well have his own reputational problems but his reasons for getting involved are not in dispute.
That’s not an opinion I’d like to hang my hat on, the way that the DR man does
Regarding the question of threats to Directors of The Rangers:
On Thursday evening Alan from Larkhall called into SSB and gave an indication of how some of the rank and file amongst the recent demonstrators outside Ibrox are thinking….sounds like a credible enough threat to me….
http://youtu.be/6yFu2mo6yC8
• ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Perhaps it’s all a bit of a nuisance to City Types who don’t want any emotion rearing its ugly head at the general meeting of a football club. If that’s the case don’t invest in football clubs.
—————————-
Is this not the crux of the matter?
They did not actually invest in a football club!
peterjung says:
February 9, 2015 at 8:36 am
Regarding the question of threats to Directors of The Rangers:
On Thursday evening Alan from Larkhall called into SSB and gave an indication of how some of the rank and file amongst the recent demonstrators outside Ibrox are thinking….sounds like a credible enough threat to me….
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Approx 4mins in on the call-in, the caller says feelings are running high and whit ur we suppozzd take dae
. . .Let the Club die. !!!!!!!!?????
peterjung says:
February 9, 2015 at 8:36 am
Regarding the question of threats to Directors of The Rangers:
On Thursday evening Alan from Larkhall called…
———
I heard that at the time and was pretty sure that the announcement a few days later of a directors’ no-show for the SC match was related to it. The comment about ‘letting our club die’ shows the level of denial and the repression of events in 2012. Not a healthy thing to do.
Btw, just heard a wee insert about the upcoming BBC Panorama on HSBC. Tax cheats won’t looking so F&P after this edition.
PS Regarding TD/TU score placement — a change is as good as a rest 🙂
Madbhoy24941 says:
February 9, 2015 at 8:44 am
ecobhoy says:
February 8, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Perhaps it’s all a bit of a nuisance to City Types who don’t want any emotion rearing its ugly head at the general meeting of a football club. If that’s the case don’t invest in football clubs.
—————————-
Is this not the crux of the matter? nThey did not actually invest in a football club!
—————————————–
Perhaps they didn’t read the AIM Prospectus for RIFC Plc in December 2012 which clearly stated the ONLY business assets and income the company had were from the activities of a football club and that most of the turnover came from their fanbase.
IIRC there was no income or assets that weren’t connected with football related activities.
If that’s not investing in a football club then I really don’t know what is.
Every so often within a post there is a reference to someone or other being termed a “squirrel”. I have heard of a “secret squirrel”, meaning a spy of some kind but that doesn’t seem to fit as a definition in the posts here. Would someone please explain what is meant when calling somebody a squirrel.
Ballyargus says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:05 am
A squirrel is simply a distraction
Regarding the recent topic of TSFM undertaking an advert similar to the CQN one in the Herald.
Could we commission a banner to be displayed at all SPL grounds asking for the end of corruption in the SFA/SPL and the resignation the guilty parties.
The banners would be displayed by the home team supporters.
In the past the Green Brigade and the Junglerbhoys have designed very affective banners and they could help on the best way to have them produced
I am sure the wording could be agreed preferably by non Celtic supporters for obvious reasons (eg;allyjambo)
Funding could be raised via this blog and supporter clubs in the SPL.
Organising this could be done by volunteers from the blog
This would probably be a cheaper alternative to an advert and get TSFM profile raised with the people who realy matter ….the supporters
……..just an idea
jimlarkin says:
February 9, 2015 at 8:46 am
peterjung says:
February 9, 2015 at 8:36 am
Regarding the question of threats to Directors of The Rangers:
On Thursday evening Alan from Larkhall called into SSB and gave an indication of how some of the rank and file amongst the recent demonstrators outside Ibrox are thinking….sounds like a credible enough threat to me….
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Approx 4mins in on the call-in, the caller says feelings are running high and whit ur we suppozzd take dae . . . Let the Club die. !!!!!!!!?????
—————————————
Thank goodness Wee Fergus was the kind of supporter who wasn’t prepared to let his club die.
Of course feelings are running high – while the rest of Scottish Football has been laughing the ordinary Bears have been put through a psychological mincer.
Plenty other football supporters will argue that they deserved everything that’s landed on Ibrox and there is a large element of truth in that IMO.
However the Celtic support has just demonstrated that they have a probably insatiable appetite to play against Rangers and beat them and there will obviously be a mix of different reasons for that.
Sadly some will be based on hatred and old history and for some individuals this might never pass and I make no judgement on their choice as I have no idea of the personal circumstances involved.
I took a conscious decision not to attend the recent game but I have also taken a decision that if and when they reach the Premiership then I will support my club and attend these matches after a 10 year abstinence.
I do hope that a Rangers can be formed which has more modern attitudes to the kind of society a modern Scotland requires and it may also help Celtic further along the road as well because we too have room to improve.
I happen to think that Rangers are important economically in terms of Scottish Football and could be more so if they cleaned-up their act. I see all the arguments here about how little Rangers means cashwise to Scottish Football and I can see how many of those arguments could just as neatly fit Celtic as well or, in time, any other team who became No1 or No 2 in our game.
At the end of the day I don’t hate Rangers nor Rangers fan in general. If I hated them then I could never accept them in Scottish Football and like it or lump it I honestly don’t think they will die.
What form or forms they might end-up taking I haven’t a clue but it is their choice and they will be judged on it. I hope that sensible Bears who want to leave historical baggage behind and concentrate on football built on financial probity and sporting integrity will win the day.
But we will need to wait a bit to see what’s left when the smoke clears before we get any real indication of where things are going. We, as Celtic Supporters, could have sent a clear message by boycotting the Hampden cup-tie . . . But we didn’t.
They voted with their wallets to support Rangers and will continue to do so IMO if and when Rangers get to the Premiership. A few internet refuseniks won’t make a blind bit of difference to what the vast bulk of the Celtic support decide.
Football for me is about gut emotions and especially when I’m at a game supporting my team. I rant, rave, shout, scream and moan in despair and know the highs and lows of joy and deep depression.
And then after the match having a pint with fellow supporters and opposition fans and hearing their views on the football and all the other side issues.
That’s football and it’s very different from sitting posting on an internet site on the ‘side issues’. Just for the record I do not regard the woeful lack of football governance and woeful performance of the SMSM as ‘side issues’.
Ballyargus says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:05 am
Every so often within a post there is a reference to someone or other being termed a “squirrel”. I have heard of a “secret squirrel”, meaning a spy of some kind but that doesn’t seem to fit as a definition in the posts here. Would someone please explain what is meant when calling somebody a squirrel.
__________________________________________________________________________________
I think explains it best…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaAxzIFgNso
Ballyargus says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:05 am
Oh look, there’s a squirrel!
Is kind of where it comes from, Bally 😉
Just as an aside, through all the hassle, in their first season TheRangers were knocked out of all domestic competitions by 2 Feb 2013 but were strolling the league…
in their second season the cup interest endured until April (Challenge final then Dundee Utd in Scottish Cup) but, again, they were strolling the league…
this season, they’ve been KOd of all three domestic cups in two months (3 Dec to 8 Feb), the much-trumpeted Old Firm tie was a damp squib, behind the scenes is in more turmoil than ever, they’re not strolling the league, Ally’s gone, the new manager is working his notice, they’re far from assured of a promotion place and the football’s awful for the third successive season…
low crowds are no surprise…
I’ve just listened to Alan from Larkhall who made the call into SSB.
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As a long-term cynic – from experience – there isn’t a shred of evidence the caller is a Rangers supporter.
He could be a supporter of any club or indeed not even a football supporter but a paid employee for a PR company for a client with an agenda.
I trust the police will investigate the matter and that there might be a way of tracing the call.
But threats to drag a director out of the director’s box and then out of the stadium? That strikes me as a fantasist at work possibly with mental health issues.
That people would jump on this as evidence of a credible threat really does disappoint me. Obviously the fact this was made publicly on air explains why no directors could be present at the game.
But that doesn’t mean there is a shred of credibility in the claim. It has to be remembered that this Board has plenty of support still in Ibrox and I simply don’t think that such a James Bond scenario stands up to a second of rational thought.
Indeed the caller even trotted-out a line that fans signing-up to buy shares with a couple of fan organisations was another sign of the growing insurrection at Ibrox.
Some could argue and they already have been on Rangers fan sites that the alleged threats are simply a cover to move the general meeting to London to restrict shareholder participation.
All very strange and much smellier and fishier than a squirrel IMO.
rabtdog says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:59 am
The thing is, throughout their ‘successful’ seasons, they (the supporters, and even the ‘unconnected’ shareholders) were still being ripped off, but had the distraction (squirrel) of that success to spend too much time dreaming of CL participation to face reality. I wonder if they hadn’t had to face a revitalised Hearts, or Hibs, and been strolling away with the Championship, would the supporters still be in dreamland, with a board fleecing them, totally ‘under the radar’?
I would imagine ‘being unbeatable’ would have been factored into the original plans, instead the veneer of success has been stripped away to expose the murky shenanigans (well some of them) going on at the club! Even the OC/NC debate has been an effective squirrel for those who want attention diverted from the real issues.
I’m sure a certain knight of the realm could confirm to us how the sweet smell of success can cloak the stink of…decay?
jambocol1874 says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:21 am
I heard the Easdsles arrived at Tynecastle 2 hours before they were due to for the game back in November.
Unannounced too as the staff were taken by surprise. So much so they were allowed in but told they couldn’t be offered the usual free directors beverages of an alcoholic nature until the proper time.
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The Easdales might be many things but somehow I doubt if they would need or want to turn-up 2 hours early at Hearts to get stuck into the pies and get pissed on the free bevvy.
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Afaik the Easdales take no expenses or fees from Rangers and IIRC haven’t charged interest on any loans they have advanced. Their proven behaviour doesn’t fit with the image portrayed by the tale of booze-soaked free-loaders on the hunt for a bevvy session paid for by Hearts.
I think the new management at Hearts will be highly embarassed at this story and will no doubt investigate the matter to establish the facts and deal with the breach of confidentiality although I doubt if there is any substance to the tale.
It seems to me that it’s not just Rangers fans that are reaching fever pitch and we would all possibly benefit from even a smidgeon of cool reflection before posting.
ecobhoy says:
February 9, 2015 at 10:08 am
I’ve just listened to Alan from Larkhall who made the call into SSB.
————————————————–
As a long-term cynic – from experience – there isn’t a shred of evidence the caller is a Rangers supporter.
He could be a supporter of any club or indeed not even a football supporter but a paid employee for a PR company for a client with an agenda.
I trust the police will investigate the matter and that there might be a way of tracing the call.
But threats to drag a director out of the director’s box and then out of the stadium? That strikes me as a fantasist at work possibly with mental health issues.
That people would jump on this as evidence of a credible threat really does disappoint me. Obviously the fact this was made publicly on air explains why no directors could be present at the game.
But that doesn’t mean there is a shred of credibility in the claim. It has to be remembered that this Board has plenty of support still in Ibrox and I simply don’t think that such a James Bond scenario stands up to a second of rational thought.
Indeed the caller even trotted-out a line that fans signing-up to buy shares with a couple of fan organisations was another sign of the growing insurrection at Ibrox.
Some could argue and they already have been on Rangers fan sites that the alleged threats are simply a cover to move the general meeting to London to restrict shareholder participation.
All very strange and much smellier and fishier than a squirrel IMO.
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Granted Ecobhoy and you have a fair point concerning the authenticity of the caller…..something I often find myself questioning also.
However I think you also need to consider the other events of the night in question – things that have been widely reported and as far as I am aware no one has denied actually took place – such as the Police almost losing control at the front door and only re-establishing control by bringing the horses in through to the crazies that did actually break in at another door and assault one female and one elderly male member of the staff at Ibrox….
I think if you consider the potential heady mix of too much alcohol, an inflamed sense of injustice and the unpredictable and irrationality of the crowd mentality then I do not think that it is really that farfetched a scenario. It certainly seems plausible enough for various members of a board at Ibrox receiving advice regarding their personal safety and security.
Regarding the inflamed sense of injustice for me one of the most despicable recurring features of this whole sorry saga from the beginning has been the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) fanning of these flames and various dog whistles from McCoist, Jardine, Green, the press and the media, etc. etc. and it is my opinion that this is being continued by King, Murray and a host of others …not least those various fans groups….if you think it is a mess now….it actually really could get a whole hell of a lot worse…a lot worse….
eco
Some Celtic fans may have an appetite for games against Rangers, although it is by no means insatiable. It doesn’t make it right. There are a range of things for which people have insatiable appetites; capital punishment for example is one area where legislative wisdom denies those appetites.
Internet refuseniks, or bampots or whatever condescending epithet you may wish to employ notwithstanding, the case has long been made against these games.
Indulging that appetite by arguing that the majority of people appear to want it is wrong. Perhaps those of us who argue against it are as you imply, an irrelevance, but even though I disagree with that, the argument weighs heavily in our favour.
The bit about Rangers being economically important to Scottish football. Really? Important to Rangers certainly; important to Celtic perhaps; but the economic case for the rest is spurious and certainly not proven to my satisfaction. In fact the opposite is the case in my view.
I think your argument sits very nicely, surprisingly, and disappointingly, with the “but we need these games” theory of the pundits.
We absolutely do not need these games – and we are better off without them if things remain as they are. As Auldheid says, Celtic/Rangers games are the equivalent of a “televised square-go”, a freak show for the chattering classes to amuse themselves and a big stick with which to beat themselves for the people of Glasgow and beyond.
In response to Ecobhoy’s request for evidence of threats to the Ibrox Board,I posted this link last night, but I see the debate continues. Here it is again-
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/sandy-easdale-calls-in-police-over-death-threats-1-3668759
The article is dated 22 January. Here is an excerpt-
Now either there are genuine, credible threats being made, or Easdale is guilty of wasting police time. It seems that the police are taking these matters seriously, so I doubt that it’s the latter. So far as I’m concerned, that article establishes beyond any reasonable doubt that threats of physical violence are in fact being made against the Board at Ibrox. The police need to act urgently against the lunatics behind these threats, before someone gets hurt. In my opinion.
Have received a communication from the Daily Mail website asking us to take out a banner ad which will run on the website for 28 days. The cost is not particularly prohibitive (£515 +VAT). The DM website, whilst political anathema to me personally, is IIRC the biggest in the UK traffic-wise.
Thoughts on the desirability? Any message would have to be short and sharp and relevant. It would also have to draw traffic to TSFM where the message could be padded out a bit (cost-free 🙂 )
Big Pink says:
February 9, 2015 at 10:39 am
ecobhoy says:
February 9, 2015 at 9:41 am
I really am disappointed that you see fit to personalise my comment as ‘condescending’.
I regarded it as appropriate and indeed if you re-read my post you will see that the term ‘internet refusenik’ has applied to myself for 10 years because I have not attended any ‘Old Firm’ games in that time and I chose not to attend the recent Celtic/Rangers match.
As to the term ‘bampot’ I have often proudly associated myself with that term and always will. Indeed if my memory serves me correctly wasn’t there a recent post on TSFM – perhaps by yourself – on the blog moving forward and away from what the term implied?
I can’t remember the argument advanced but I posted with a contrary position at the time. When I get a minute I’ll dig the posts out to refresh my memory.
I also don’t like the inference that I fall into the camp that thinks the hatred that drives the ‘Old Firm’ Dynamic is OK. My post makes it clear that it isn’t all-right – anything but.
What makes a lot of fellow Celtic supporters uncomfortable is that I have no qualms in identifying the problems that exist within the Celtic support that need to be addressed and dealt with.
That my argument, in your opinion, might fit with the ‘We need these games’ mindset is way off the mark and I think anyone who has read my posts will readily accept that.
And I do repeat I have consciously not attended an Old Firm game for a decade so I think that speaks volumes for my position on the matter.
However, whether I or you like it or not, these games will happen if Rangers get to the Premiership. My position is we either pick-up the old hatred and continue where we left off or we can start to try and find a way of making progress for our society in general and not just in a narrow footballing context.
TSFM could be useful in that initiative but perhaps the Celtic-balance of posters on the site makes it more difficult to achieve and certainly there have been further political diversions created by the Referendum campaign.
However I am always hopeful that progress can be made and all it takes is people of good will on all sides to find common ground to build a foundation on.
The alternative is to remain in the dark ages with all the hatred that entails. In that regard I note the quote you ascribe to Auldheid.
He is probably the poster on here I have most respect for and although I don’t know the wider context that his post was included in there’s one thing for sure I know about Auldheid.
And that’s his desire that some day we as a society can find our way through a shared but troubled past and find reconciliation and forgiveness. It won’t be easy. It never is. But it’s possible and that is more important for the good of Scotland than anything to do with football IMO.