Good Afternoon.
Announcing outstanding financial successes for Rangers PLC the then Chairman of the club opened his Chairman’s report in the annual financial statements with the following words:
“Last summer I explained that the Club, after many years of significant investment in our playing squad
and more recently in our state of the art facility at Murray Park, had embarked on a three year business
plan to stabilise and improve the Club’s finances. The plan also recognised the need to react to the
challenging economic conditions facing football clubs around the world.
Following a trend over a number of years of increasing year on year losses, I am pleased to report that
in the first year of this plan we have made important progress by reversing this trend. Our trading loss
for last year of £11.2m reflects a £7.9m improvement versus the £19.1m loss for the previous year and
although it will take more time to completely reach our goals, this is a key milestone. We also intend to
make significant further progress by the end of the current financial year. This improvement is the
consequence of having a solid strategy and the commitment and energy to implement the changes it requires”
Later on in the same statement the chairman would add:
“Another key part of our plan is associated with the Rangers brand and our Retail Division goes from strength to strength. Our financial results this year have been significantly enhanced by an outstanding performance in merchandising Rangers products, in particular replica kit, which makes our Retail Division one of the most successful in Europe.”
In the same set of financial reports, the CEO would report:
“To further strengthen Rangers hospitality portfolio, a new dedicated sponsor’s lounge was unveiled this season. The Carling Lounge is a first for the Club and was developed in conjunction with our new sponsor, Carling. ”
and
“Our innovative events programme continues to grow and this year saw a record number of official events including the highly successful annual Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony, Player of the Year and 50 Championships Gala Dinner, all of which catered for up to 1000 guests.
At Rangers, we continually develop our portfolio of products and as a key area of income for the Club, we evaluate the market for new revenue opportunities on an ongoing basis in order to exceed our existing and potential customer expectations and needs.
Demand for season tickets reached an all time high last season with a record 42,508 season ticket holders in comparison with the previous season`s figure of 40,320. Over 36,000 of these season ticket holders renewed for this season – a record number.
For the new season, we are delighted to welcome brewing giant, Carling on board as our Official Club sponsor. Carling is one of the UK’s leading consumer brands with a proven track record in football sponsorship.
The Club also continues to work with a number of multinational blue chip brands such as National Car Rental, Sony Playstation 2, Bank of Scotland and Coca-Cola. This year, we will also experience the evolution of the Honda deal via Hyndland Honda and welcome the mobile communications giant T-Mobile to our ranks.”.
The year was 2003 and in the previous 24 months Rangers Football Club, owned and operated as a private fiefdom by Sir David Murray, had made operational losses of some £30 million.
Yes – 30 MILLION POUNDS.
Of course the chairman’s report for 2003 was written by John F Mclelland CBE and the CEO was one Martin Bain Esq.
As Mr Mclelland clearly stated, by 2003 the club already had a trend of increasing year on year losses covering a number of years and was losing annual sums which stretched into millions, if not tens of millions, of pounds.
However, the acquisition of Rangers Football Club was absolutely vital to David Murray’s personal business growth, and his complete control of the club as his own private business key was more important than any other business decision he had made before buying Rangers or since.
When he persuaded Gavin Masterton to finance 100% of the purchase price of the club, Murray had his finest business moment.
By getting control of Rangers, Murray was able to offer entertainment, hospitality, seeming privilege and bestow favour on others in a way that was hitherto undreamed of, and he bestowed that largesse on any number of “existing and potential clients” and contacts – be they the clients and contacts related to Rangers Football Club or the existing and potential clients of David Murray, his businesses, his banks, or anyone in any field that he chose to court for the purposes of potential business.
His business.
It wasn’t only journalists who benefited from the succulent lamb treatment.
Accountants,lawyers, surveyors, broadcasters, football officials, people in industry and construction, utilities, financiers and other areas of business were all invited inside the sacred House of Murray and given access to the great man of business “and owner of Rangers” while attending the “record number of official (hospitality) events”.
Twelve months on from when John McLelland made those statements in the 2003 accounts, David Murray was back in the chair at Ibrox and he presented the 2004 financials.
In the intervening 12 months Rangers had gained an additional £10 million from Champions League income and had received £8.6 million in transfer fees from the sale of Messrs Ferguson, Amoruso and McCann. Not only that, the Rangers board had managed to reduce the club’s wage bill by £5 million. Taking all three figures together comes to some £23.6 million in extra income or savings.
Yet, the accounts for 2004 showed that the club made an operational loss of almost £6 million and overall debt had risen by an additional £7 million to £97.4 million.
However, the 2004 accounts were also interesting for another reason.
Rangers PLC had introduced payments “to employees trusts” into their accounts for the first time in 2001 and in that year they had paid £1million into those trusts. Just three years later, the trust payments recorded in the accounts had risen to £7.3 million per annum — or to put it another way to 25% of the annual wage bill though no one in Scottish Football asked any questions about that!
By the following year, the chairman announced that the 2004 operational loss had in fact been £10.4million but that the good news was that the 2005 operational loss was only £7.8 million. However Rangers were able to post a profit before taxation if they included the money obtained from transfers (£8.4 million) and the inclusion of an extraordinary profit of £14,999,999 made on buying back the shares of a subsidiary company for £1 which they had previously sold for £15 million.
All of which added up to a whopping great profit of ……… £12.4 million!
I will leave you to do the maths on 2005.
Oh and of course these accounts included the detail that 3000 Rangers fans had joined David Murray in participating in the November ’94 share issue where the club managed to raise £51,430,995 in fresh capital most of which was provided by Mr Murray… sorry I mean MIH ….. sorry that should read Bank of Scotland …… or their shareholders……. or should that be the public purse?
The notable items in the 2006 accounts included the announcement of a ten year deal with JJB Sports to take over the merchandising operation of the club and increased revenue from an extended run in the Champion’s League. However, the profit before tax was declared at only£0.1 million in comparison to the £12.4 million of the year before but then again that £12.4 million had included player sales of £8.4 million and the £15 million sweety bonus from the repurchase of ones own former subsidiary shares for £1.
Jumping to 2008 Rangers saw a record year in terms of turnover which had risen to £64.5 million which enabled the company to record a profit on ordinary activities before taxation of £6.57 million although it should be pointed out that wages and bonuses were up at 77% of turnover and that a big factor in the Rangers income stream was corporate hospitality and the top line of income was shown as “gate receipts and hospitality”.
However, 2009 saw a calamitous set of figures. Whilst Alastair Johnston tried to put a brave chairman’s face on it, the year saw an operating loss of £17.325 million which was softened only by player disposals leading to a loss before taxation of a mere £14.085 million.
Fortunately Sir David did not have to report these figures as he chose to stand down as chairman in August and so Johnston stepped in and announced that he was deeply honoured to do so.
In 2010, the income stream jumped from £39.7 million to over £56 million with the result that the club showed a profit before taxation of £4.209 million.
However, by that time the corporate hospitality ticket that was Rangers Football Club was done for as a result of matters that had nothing to do with events on the football field in the main.
First, the emergence of the Fergus McCann run Celtic had brought a real business and sporting challenge. This was something that Murray had not previously faced in the football business.
Second,the Bank of Scotland had gone bust and Lloyds could not and would not allow Murray to continually borrow vast sums of money on the basis of revalued assets and outrageous hospitality.
Third, the UEFA fair play rules came into being and demanded that clubs at least act on a semblance of proper corporate governance and fiscal propriety.
Lastly,Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs tightened up the law on the use of EBT’s which meant that Rangers could no longer afford to buy in the players that brought almost guaranteed success against domestic opposition.
On average, since 2002 Rangers PLC had lost between £7 million – £8 million per year – or roughly £650,000 per month if you like – yet for the better part of a decade David Murray had been able to persuade the Bank of Scotland that this was a business that was worthy of ever greater financial support or that he himself and his MIH business was of such value that the Banks should support him in supporting the Ibrox club whilst operating in this fashion.
Of course, had Murray’s Rangers paid tax on all player remunerations then the losses would have been far larger.
Meanwhile, all the other clubs in Scottish football who banked with the Bank of Scotland faced funding cuts and demands for repayment with the bank publicly proclaiming that it was overexposed to the football market in Scotland.
But no one asked any questions about why the bank should act one way with Murray’s club but another way with all others. No one in football, no one in the media and no one from the world of business.
Looking back,it is hard to imagine a business which has been run on such a consistent loss making basis being allowed to continue by either its owners or by its bankers. However, a successful and funded Rangers was so important to the Murray group that David Murray was clearly willing to lose millions year after year to keep the Gala dinners and corporate hospitality going.
Rangers were Murray’s big PR vehicle and the club was essentially used by him to open the doors which would allow him to make more money elsewhere on a personal basis and if it meant Rangers cutting every corner and accumulating massive losses, unsustainable losses, then so be it.
Today, the new regime at Ibrox run the current business in a way which clocks up the same colossal annual losses whilst the club competes outwith Scotland’s top division. Each day we hear that the wage bill is unsustainable, that the playing staff are overpaid, that the stadium needs massive investment and that the fans are opposed to the stadium itself being mortgaged and the club being in hawk to lenders.
Yet, in the Murray era the Stadium was revalued time and time again and its revaluation was used as the justification for ever greater borrowing on the Rangers accounts. The playing staff were massively overpaid and financially assisted by the EBT’s and most years the Chairman’s annual statement announced huge losses despite regular claims of record season ticket sales, record hospitality income, European income, shirt sponsorship and the outsourcing of all merchandising to JJB sports instead of Sports Direct.
The comparison between the old business and the current one is clear for all to see.
It should be noted, that since the days of Murray, no major banking institution has agreed to provide the Ibrox business with any banking facilities. Not under Whyte, not under Green, not under anyone.
Yet few ask why that should be.
The destruction of the old Rangers business led those in charge of Scottish football to announce that Armageddon was on the horizon if it had not actually arrived, yet today virtually all Scottish clubs are in a better financial and business state than back in the bad old days of the Bank of Scotland financed SPL. Some have succumbed to insolvency, and others have simply cut their cloth, changed their structure, sought, and in some cases attracted, new owners and moved on in terms of business.
In general, Scottish Football has cleaned house at club level.
Now, David Murray has “cleaned house” in that MIH has bitten the dust and walked down insolvency road.
What is interesting is that the Murray brand still has that capacity to get out a good PR message when it needs to. Despite the MIH pension fund being short of money for some inexplicable reason, last week it was announced that the family controlled Murray Estates had approached those in charge of MIH and had agreed to buy some key MIH assets for something in the region of £13.9 million.
The assets concerned are land banks which at some point will be zoned for planning and which will undoubtedly bring the Murray family considerable profit in the future, with some of those assets already looking as if they will produce a return sooner rather than later.
However, what is not commented upon in the mainstream press is the fact that Murray Estates had the ability to pay £13.9 Million for anything at all and that having that amount of money to spend the Murray camp has chosen not to buy any football club down Govan way.
Perhaps, it has been realised that a football club which loses millions of pounds each year is not such a shrewd investment and that the Murray family money would be better spent elsewhere?
Perhaps, it has been realised that the culture of wining, dining, partying and entertaining to the most lavish and extravagant extent will not result in the banks opening their vaults any more?
Perhaps, it has been realised that the Rangers brand has been so badly damaged over the years that it is no longer the key to the golden door in terms of business, finance and banking and that running a football club in 2015 involves a discipline and a set of skills that David Murray and his team do not have experience of?
What is clear, is that the Murray years at Ibrox were not good for the average Rangers fan in the long term and that when you have a football club – any football club – being run for the private benefit of one rich individual, or group of individuals, then the feelings and passions of the ordinary fan will as often as not be forgotten when that individual or his group choose to move on once they have decided that they no longer wish to play with their toy football club.
David Murray did not make money directly out of Rangers Football Club. He used it as a key to open other doors for him and to get him a seat at other tables and into a different type of “club” altogether. He did not run the club in a day to day fashion that was designed to bring stability and prolonged financial, or playing, success to the club. its investors and its fans. He did not preside over Ibrox during a period of sustained financial gain.
Mike Ashley will not subsidise 2015 version of Rangers to anything like the same extent that the Bank of Scotland did in the 90’s and naughties.
However, Ashley, like Murray, will use his control of the Rangers brand to open doors for him elsewhere in the sports retail market, and he will use the Rangers contract with Sports Direct to make a handsome profit. He will also control all the advertising revenue just as he does at Newcastle. In short, Mr Ashley is only interested in The Rangers with a view to using it as a stepping stone to achieve other things elsewhere.
However, don’t take my word for any of this, take the opinion of someone who knows.
Mr Dave King is quoted today as saying the following about the current board of Directors who are in charge of the current Ibrox holding company.
“History will judge this board as one of the worst the club has ever had. There is not one individual who puts the club above personal interest.”
That is an interesting observation from a man who became a non executive director of the old Rangers holding company in 2000 and who had a front row pew for every set of accounts and all the financial statements referred to above.
Whether or not Mr King is a glib and shameless liar is a matter of South African judicial opinion. Whether or not he can spot someone who puts their own self interest ahead of the interests of Rangers Football Club and the supporters of the club is a matter that should be discussed over some fine wine, some succulent lamb and whatever postprandial entertainment you care to imagine.
I wonder if he has ever read the accounts of Rangers PLC and compared them to the corresponding accounts of MIH for the same period?
Lately the answer to most questions concerning the future of the Govan club from smsm is wait till the egm. According to most pundits this is the big one. They have more or less in their usual manner backed King and talk about removal of present board members (maybe jumping the gun with this train of thought, but hey it is what they do). They do not mention what exactly King will do if egm goes his way, considering what Mr Ashley owns. I do not despair as I know that the Beano will chase this story even though they are banned (how funny is that, real irony from Govan) as KJ states he is on this and will pursue the truth , tranparency etc……….. In Keith we trust.
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:17 am
I agree the equivalence is not an argument that stands up. The question remains though is £68 million a year good value for the TV licence payer? I’d suggest there are many other things that could be done with some of that money.
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Good point. I think it’s a matter of the BBC managing decline in sports against profit based competitors who’ve identified sport as an audience winner. The BBC ahs already lost so many major events I think losing MotD would be something of a cultural crisis for their public service remit – so they are prepared to pay what it takes. Having said that I think they make pretty good use of it Motd, MotD repeat, Football Focus, Sportsday (News 24), other news coverage. As for Savage and Neville – don’t get me started 🙂
btw, I lived in the States for a few years and I’m a big fan of the BBC, despite its weaknesses. I’ve seen the alternative and it is appaling – truly applaling – the BBC is like the NHS – a jewel of British culture.
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 10:58 am
AIM NOMADS frequently resign – for a variety of reasons – and they get fired as well but trading in a company’s shares doesn’t stop. They are simply replaced and there are currently lots of NOMADS scrabbling for new clients on AIM.
Indeed IIRC the current Rangers’ NOMAD is the 3rd or 4th the company has had in just over 2 years and there was no previous suspension of trading following the earlier NOMAD resignations.
DK has stated he has already spoken to another NOMAD as he intends to sack the current one if he takes over. It shouldn’t therefore be a surprise that the current NOMAD has taken the opportunity to hit back.
The NOMAD in question is apparently coming under pressure wrt a number of issues involving Rangers and IIRC correctly some China Trades.
However that’s of little moment because if he’s sacked he will be replaced and I doubt it will affect trading on AIM.
There really is a wider question as to whether Rangers should be on AIM anyway but that’s one for the future. Trading suspension isn’t the end of the world either and can be lifted and there’s the ‘matched bargain’ option which wouldn’t really be that disadvantageous to a lot of Rangers’ shareholders IMO.
Luckily we don’t need to speculate from now to doomsday as we will soon see how the vote goes or whether the egm takes place.
If it doesn’t that might create a bigger possibility of share trading being suspended by AIM than anything else. However I try to remain objective over the various moves by both sides.
At the end of the day the matter will initially be decided by the shareholders’ vote at the egm. If that vote or the consequences within Ibrox that flow from it doesn’t suits the fans then the egm vote means little.
Any increase in the boycotting of Rangers will bring RIFC Plc to its knees IMO and with it the current incarnation of the club. MA might like getting his way but he won’t IMO throw money away to do so.
So, there will be opportunities for compromise not far down the road although it remains to be seen whether they can be sold to the Bears or not.
However as I continually repeat – it’s up to the Bears to decide where their club is heading and what kind of club it should be. The support will have to live with the consequences of their decision for good or ill.
And, as long as whatever Rangers that emerges, lives within the rule book then so will Scottish Football.
The priority IMO is cleansing Scottish Football Governance – that’s the heart of the problem and Rangers are simply a particularly nasty symptom of the Hampden Sickness.
But for many it’s easier to simply focus our firepower on Rangers than to look at our own Clubs which legitimise the deplorable attitudes and decisions of the SFA and now SPFL which have created the conditions allowing the sickness in our game to be ignored and go untreated.
Our Governance is a basket case and needs a clear-out but virtually all of our clubs say and do nothing about it. And the SMSM, as always, play their 3 Wise Monkeys role to perfection and are still fed their succulent lamb diet.
Tonight’s reading.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2014-15/Judicial%20Panel%20Protocol%202014-15.pdf
I’ve been trying to research the regulations surrounding the whole McCulloch/Compliance Officer/suspension situation.
In particular, I want to establish the basic tariff for red cards on the field of play and how/when they are applied, the tariffs available to the CO and the process for determining the appropriate tariff, and the potential availability of additional sanction in the event of a non-acceptance of the initial citing by the CO.
I was under the impression that a violent conduct red card had a fixed tariff of three games and was effective immediately. Therefore, I am trying to establish the basis on which a lower tariff was offered by the CO and with a part of that suspended in such a way that it may be unenforceable, and how/why no additional tariff was imposed following the spurious non-acceptance. We may be looking at this situation again this season, and I think it would be useful to have all the necessary documentation to hand.
The Scottish Cup regulations previously posted do not appear to have any distinct disciplinary rules in place, but refer back to the main SFA handbook (also posted recently).
Does anyone have any links to anything that may be of assistance?
MercDoc says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:07 am
I see LINDSELL TRAIN LIMITED bought shares in Celtic yesterday, taking them to 10.05%. The shareholders are
The BNY (OCS) Nominees
JPMS Limited
Morstan Nominees
NT Nominees
———
http://www.lindselltrain.com
The Cat NR1 says:
February 11, 2015 at 5:05 pm
If DK gets anywhere near the boardroom of RIFC PLC, I expect it would be a pyrrhic victory, as it would then initiate proper scrutiny from AIM, the other RIFC PLC directors, even the SFA (no sniggering at the back).
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Cat – thanks for following up – very interesting. Patience is over-rated in my opinion – along with moderation 🙂
I don’t doubt your opinion/experience – but it does raise the question of what on earth is King up to? Can he get anywhere after being denied the right to take a board seat – assuming he wins the EGM.
King looks about as convincing as Green once did – but he gave us all a master class in the dark arts. Either King is a fool or as smart as Green? I’m leaning towards “fool”, but am very wary of discounting “smart”.
MercDoc says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:07 am
I see LINDSELL TRAIN LIMITED bought shares in Celtic yesterday, taking them to 10.05%. The shareholders are
The BNY (OCS) Nominees
JPMS Limited
Morstan Nominees
NT Nominees
Who?
——————————————–
Often it’s more important to await the RNS announcement and find out who sold the shares if it affects one of the percentage triggers.
Perhaps Ashley has spotted a better opportunity than the current basket-case he is embroiled with 🙄
ecobhoy says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:08 pm
Perhaps Ashley has spotted a better opportunity than the current basket-case he is embroiled with 🙄
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Eco – shirley Mike would have bought up Celtic share before he started hamstringing The Rangers for the next few decades. Sarver you say? Green Pitch Holdings? Charles Blue?
Further to my last post, hidden in the depths of the “JUDICIAL PANEL PROTOCOL 2014/15” is the following.
“13.3.1.3
Wrongful caution for simulation.
In very exceptional cases, where it can be demonstrated that an obvious refereeing error has occurred in respect of a player being cautioned for the offence of simulation, a player or his club may submit to Fast track Proceedings a claim of wrongful caution for simulation.”
I had always assumed that yellow cards were non-appealable, so it proves the old adage that assumptions can be dangerous. Did Stokes/Celtic appeal the bizarre booking at Dundee on Saturday or just “take it on the chin”(© T Mowbray)?
I am certainly not arguing a pro-rata split:My response was merely an answer to the question how much the BBC spent on Highlights package.
FWIW I think it’s a totally unjustifiable expense, given the BBC Sports budget constraints, but if they are going to spend that money on a highlights package for the EPL, then a pro-rata funding should be given to BBC Scotland to cover Scottish sport, football or otherwise. If they deem that unacceptable, or unaffordable, then the BBC should not be bidding for the package at all.
I have enclosed my earlier post from previous page which articulates my argument more fully.
_————————————
The only element of the mad TV deal which can and should be questioned is the cost of the BBC highlights package.
This seems an outrageous and unjustified waste of licence payers’ money on two grounds.
Firstly in terms of the BBC sports budget. The BBC by continuing in this overblown market have bought these rights at the cost of other sports which they have a duty to cover. The Open is leaving, Wimbledon being curtailed, horse racing virtually abandoned, no meaningful coverage of boxing, the entire portfolio of sport offered is diminished by chasing premiership football which others could cover were they to depart the scene. It is simply wrong for the BBC to commit very limited funds for an unnecessary commitment. My second complaint is that Premiership football is not a UK or even a GB sport. For the BBC, any money that they choose to spend on this, should be given pro rata (about 7-8 %)to BBC Scotland, and an equivalent ratio to BBC NI for covering sport within Scotland and NI, in other words the spending on the English Premiership should be deemed regional sport rather than National sport. pro rata
I think what you’re saying tcup is the AFC support couldn’t expand into the family section because the CFC admin have sold season tickets in that area on the proviso that only old firm games would be excluded? Presumably then, the traditional away area + the family section = the 7,000 Away end for the Old Firm Games (as was).
Seems sensible to me. What then is the purpose of AFC asking for more tickets – do CFC ask how many do you need ordinarily as a matter of course? Or is this AFC asking for more on an off chance given the relative importance of this particular game?
On the Simonsen ban, I thought it was refreshing to see Gordon Durie using it as a warning to other players not to risk a ban by betting on football matches rather than, for example, blaming the rules and brandishing a list of everyone else who’s at it.
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:12 am
They have the family section next to the away support!? Jings! 😯
MercDoc,
Is that the legendary (and apparently inappropriately named) ‘Vodka Vic’ you’ve got as your avatar?
mcfc says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:07 pm
The Cat NR1 says:
February 11, 2015 at 5:05 pm
If DK gets anywhere near the boardroom of RIFC PLC, I expect it would be a pyrrhic victory, as it would then initiate proper scrutiny from AIM, the other RIFC PLC directors, even the SFA (no sniggering at the back).
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Cat – thanks for following up – very interesting. Patience is over-rated in my opinion – along with moderation 🙂
I don’t doubt your opinion/experience – but it does raise the question of what on earth is King up to? Can he get anywhere after being denied the right to take a board seat – assuming he wins the EGM.
King looks about as convincing as Green once did – but he gave us all a master class in the dark arts. Either King is a fool or as smart as Green? I’m leaning towards “fool”, but am very wary of discounting “smart”.
================================
I’m really not sure what DK is thinking MCFC.
I have to assume that he really believes that normal rules don’t apply to all things Ibrox, and that he really did have a favourable settlement with SARS. Either that or I’m completely wrong (has happened before in this saga) about DK and he is purely acting as a stalking horse and will immediately stand aside once the coup is completed.
MA is a real businessman though and he will be way ahead of the field, with win/loss/draw strategies all planned out to leave MA as the only real winner.
AmFearLiathMòr says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:41 pm
He didn’t even like the Vodak ( I think he preferred Rum ). A living legend.
Iron Men from the Iron Burgh!
MercDoc says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:07 am
I see LINDSELL TRAIN LIMITED bought shares in Celtic yesterday, taking them to 10.05%. The shareholders are
The BNY (OCS) Nominees
JPMS Limited
Morstan Nominees
NT Nominees
Who?
================
A hedge fund, not a railway operator! From their website-
“I think what you’re saying tcup is the AFC support couldn’t expand into the family section because the CFC admin have sold season tickets in that area on the proviso that only old firm games would be excluded? Presumably then, the traditional away area + the family section = the 7,000 Away end for the Old Firm Games (as was).”
Celtic have allocated ~3% of the tickets to the away support but expect the other teams to allocate a much higher %age of their grounds to them ?
Complete and utter hypocrisy. Other teams can and do move season ticket holders to accommodate the Celtic fans. Why can’t Celtic do the same or is that a silly question.
Just how much complaining would we hear in the media and on here if AFC and the other clubs were to only allocate 3% of tickets to Celtic fans. The noise would be deafening.
iceman63 says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm
in other words the spending on the English Premiership should be deemed regional sport rather than National sport.
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So let’s assume that your suggestion is implemented and NI and Scotland get a pro rata amount from the BBC EPL Budget – I’ll ignore Wales btw as that creates other problems.
So does that mean that EPL matches wouldn’t be shown in Scotland and NI? That would seem only fair in view of the fact that licence holders in Scotland and NI were effectively not paying to see them because of the pay-back you suggest.
All I can say is I wish you well with that suggestion which would create outrage IMO in Scotland and NI. In recent years more and more Scots choose to watch EPL Games in preference to most Scottish Games.
Whatever the reasons that’s the reality. To change that situation we need to deal with our useless SPSFL and SFA whose limited vision and abilities are killing the Scottish Game.
And as a match attender if the BBC were to be able to cover more Scottish games then the resistance over KO times and actual playing dates to meet TV scheduling requirements will dramatically increase pressure from bums on seat fans.
This – like so much else – is a complex issue and will never happen in my opinion in any case. The root problem isn’t about televising more Scottish games but about improving quality of the product and not just on the park so that more Scots want to watch the games which are even currently on offer.
Celtic give Aberdeen about 15% of Aberdeens average home crowd and Aberdeen give Celtic about 5% of Celtics average home crowd.
mcfc says:
February 13, 2015 at 9:24 am
I’ve bookmarked the DR so see Radar Jackson’s renegade exclusives – still waiitng – must be a big one coming !
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Although a steady diet of succulent lamb was always a nice perk, the function of the DR sports desk has always been to print fairy stories to make Rangers fans feel good – Casinos, hovver pitches, Ronaldo is a signing target, warchests, private jets, billionaire off the radar takeovers, the hooligans were chelsea fans etc. – not so long ago they were talking about Man.City becoming their feeder club which is a rather stark irony.
The flip side of that was to print bad stories about their rivals, particularly their main rival.
Access to the stadium/boardroom/players/staff etc in no way impinges on their ability to continue to print fantastically untrue BS in this manner, therefore Radar Jackson can confidently bump his gums about this not changing the rags’ MO
“Celtic give Aberdeen about 15% of Aberdeens average home crowd and Aberdeen give Celtic about 5% of Celtics average home crowd.”
And if AFC only gave Celtic 600 tickets the numbers would pretty well match up. So that would be fair then ?
iceman63 says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm
For the BBC, any money that they choose to spend on this, should be given pro rata (about 7-8 %)to BBC Scotland, and an equivalent ratio to BBC NI for covering sport within Scotland and NI, in other words the spending on the English Premiership should be deemed regional sport rather than National sport. pro rata
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You’re conflating two unrelated issues. Yes you could argue the BBC should spend less on football and more on other sports – a perfectly reasoable position.
But suggesting that spend on the EPL is detrimental to the SPFL as an obvious alternative is detrimental without the “detri”.
It’s a global market for global sport. The EPL is no more regional English sport than F1, ATP or PGA. SPFL is not on the radar as world sport. I don’t think the BBC has money for regional sport. If you think SPFL belongs on the BBC as a minority sport you should be campaigning for Doncaster to pay Hearn for consultancy to make a compelling case alongside darts, snooker, BTCC etc. Which takes us back to square one.
Btw I’ve absolutely nothing against Scottish football – in fact I’d love to see it cast off its numpties and be much more successful – but you’ve got to get real before you can take the gradual steps towards a better situation. The BBC’s spending is way down the list of issues.
It looks to me like a referral is considered in the same way as if the red card had been applied at the time of the incident. Lee McCulloch and Jason Talbot were both reported to have received the sanction shown below in Annex C, Section 4 of the SFA Handbook.
I think you may also have been looking for this in Part 4:
Enjoy the read – will you miss Rangers – Hibs?
I agree with Iceman, it makes perfect sense.
MaBaw says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:19 pm
Eco, not sure why you have an issue with Scotland getting a similar pro rata budget to England. Scotland should have its own channel, instead of being a 5 minute sound byte in between English matters.
As for should the epl highlights be shown in /Scotland, of course it should and our highlights should be shown in England
————————————————————
I don’t have an issue but I do realise that no one is prepared to pay the same amount of money for Scottish Football Rights as they do for the EPL even on an audience weighted %.
Our game isn’t attractive enough and it doesn’t matter how many Scottish Games we add to the TV schedule they won’t be watched in preference to EPL games by most pub and armchair viewers.
That is the simple reality. And as I have previously asked: If Scotland does get the same pro rata budget does that mean that EPL games stop being transmitted in Scotland?
I’m afraid much of this discussion seems to centre around matters other than footballing ones and I am trying to simply deal with it from a footballing perspective particulalrly from the viewpoint of a fan attending matches as opposed to only watching on telly.
berrty says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Celtic have allocated ~3% of the tickets to the away support but expect the other teams to allocate a much higher %age of their grounds to them ?
————————————
How do you know what Celtic ‘expect’?
Given home clubs keep gate receipts shurely this is just enlightened self interest and simple economics.
Other clubs know that Celtic’s larger fan base means that they will be able to profit more from ‘often price inflated’ away team ticket sales – a profit that must outweigh the cost of forcing ST holders to move.
One can only assume that Celtic have done their sums and the cost of moving ST holders outweighs the income from visiting fans.
Perhaps the way around it is for other clubs to follow the old Celtic example of selling reduced priced STs that exclude certain games. I think anything that involves asking ST holders to move should be avoided.
As should rants based on assumptions about what other clubs ‘expect’ – it just smacks of grievance hunting.
ecobhoy says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:54 am
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 10:58 am
========================
Fair point Eco.
I was operating from memory, having read something, somewhere, that I was unable to locate when compiling my response to MCFC.
However, I still don’t think that DK will get in any position to sack the Nomad, so it may be a moot point. I do think that if I’m wrong and it should come to pass, then AIM would take much more notice than with a normal Nomad change, given that a) RIFC have had more Nomads than the Sahara Desert and b) the circumstances leading to the change.
I’ll try and find the article linking the DK/Nomad/AIM suspension of trading scenario as it did seem to have some merit on first reading. Perhaps a second, more critical perusal was in order?
The Nomad has a responsibility for ensuring that directorial appointments are appropriate for a listed company, so would resignation just be a cop-out, rather than a fulfilment of duty?
AIM suspension arising from failure to replace the Nomad within the prescribed period would be a possibility, although suspension could also arise from a precautionary suspension as shown at s40 on p13 but that deals more with the operation of the market.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/companies-and-advisors/aim/advisers/aim-notices/aimrulescompaniesmay2014.pdf
How do I know what Celtic expect ? It’s simple really. Any time that Celtic (and/or Rangers don’t get as many tickets as they want the outcry is deafening.
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:39 pm
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:12 am
///////////
Yes
Both sides of the away support actually
As the away fans face the pitch
To the left hand side(across the tunnel) isca family section and to the right ( were they would have to expand) is a family section
I cannot and did not see a problem with this
As 99% of teams who came to parkhead Fans came to support their teams and have a good time (Which they did especially when they were winning)
The only time I felt uncomfortable when my son was with me was when (I know this will upset some posters on here) Hearts came calling
You could feel the hate and the nice govan song book they brought with them was vile 🙁
MaBaw says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Celtic give Aberdeen about 15% of Aberdeens average home crowd and Aberdeen give Celtic about 5% of Celtics average home crowd.
Sounds dangerously close to saying Celtic are simply more important than anyone else. That kinda bunkum is what most of us have been crying out as nonsense when the SMSM bleat on about the effect of the demise of RFC. It takes two teams to play football, neither is any more important than the other.
The problem here is not necessarily the size of the allocation, its the fact that while the away team has had its request for more tickets turned down, there remains a very strong possibility that the ground will not be anywhere near sold out.
Of course, every team has the duty to look after the ticketing needs of its own supporters, but also surely to make as much profit from each and every game as it can (quite aside form the improvement of the “experience” when there is a decent atmosphere generated with a sizeable away support).
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:57 pm
MaBaw says:
////////////////
Whether the home side of the ground I’d full or not
Is not the point
The tickets have been Sold
And Celtic cannot say who is going to turn up and take there seat and who isn’t
berrty says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm
How do I know what Celtic expect ? It’s simple really. Any time that Celtic (and/or Rangers don’t get as many tickets as they want the outcry is deafening.
————————————-
I fear that by bringing the other club into it you have shown your hand.
Outcry? Aye maybe some supporters will have a whine about missing out on an awayday but I’m pretty sure the club would do and say nothing unless asked by official supporters associations to make enquiries.
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:07 pm
The tickets have been Sold
And Celtic cannot say who is going to turn up and take there seat and who isn’t
I can’t argue with that. Maybe we can hope that with a bit of foresight Celtic might not sell season tickets in the first section beside the standard away end. Or as someone else suggested offer those seats on a reduced rate on the understanding that those seats will not always be available.
Are Celtic season tickets inclusive of cup games including the seat reservation? I’m guessing not like most clubs.
John Clark says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:25 pm
That little rotten element in Shortbread? contemptible liars and cheats.
==========================================================================
Fortunately I haven’t experienced them. Amongst the BBC’s weaknesses is definitely a move away from Reithian backbone. I’ve a friend who left recently because of increasing bureaucratic managerial back-watching. That doesn’t lend itself to rooting out established clichés of “under performers”.
iceman63 says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm
I think that sometimes we shouldn’t always seek the negative but look for the positives. Take ‘The Open’ it isn’t ‘leaving’ the BBC as you suggest but the R&A is getting a helluva lot more money from Sky for the exclusive live coverage than it got from the BBC.
I would also suspect that the R&A have made a shrewd move and hope that Sky will do the same for golf as it did for the EPL. If that happens it would be great for golf and also for Scotland.
The BBC will still be heavily involved after its exclusive live coverage contracts passes to SKY. It will provide 2 hours daily highlights coverage and live radio and internet coverage.
In many ways IMO this is more in tune with how modern consumers want their viewing presented to them. They don’t want to sit for hours in front of the screen watching the live feed. Nope, they want the sporting action and they want it packaged in digestible segments and downloadable when it suits them.
The whole pace of change in sports coverage is blistering and consumer wants and needs are changing as well and it’s all geared to mobility and portability provided by the internet.
As to Wimbledon then that is another case where the All England Club want to maximise their TV earnings. You have to rember that the Government ‘Crown Jewel’ protection for Wimbledon only apples to the final weekend wrt to free-to-air coverage.
Afaik the AEC is still discussing a shared deal with the BBC and BT Sport so it looks as though some BBC coverage will remain. Whether that goes down the ‘highlights’ route who knows?
As to horse racing TV Rights that is probably even more complex and cut-throat than football. It is far too simple to have a go at the BBC on this one which once again is down the owners of these rights aggressively marketing them as they are allowed to do. The BBC is also allowed to say when enough is enough.
Boxing is a very fragmented area where the TV rights afaik rest with individual boxers and promoters and, like racing, have a number of commercial TV and pay for view channels actively covering the sport.
Whether people like it or not the BBC has to take commercial decisions about what it covers and what it is prepared to pay. To fully understand their financial decisions you require to have access to very sensitive commercial information. We don’t have that and that makes coming to an objective conclusion rather than a personal or emotional one very difficult.
TV Rights are huge money earners and everywhere I look people are demanding more and more money to rent-out these rights to the highest bidder.
The one exception I can see is Scottish Football and really pointing some kind of blame at the BBC is merely a deflection from where we should be laying the blame and that’s squarely on the SPFL IMO.
They are simply unfit for purpose in so many way and especially as an effective trade association for ALL of its members never mind the paying punters who financially support the whole game in Scotland
Sky and the format of the Champions League have changed football across the world, forever.
The Premier League is a world brand and it really has left most countries behind.
It has changed football all over Europe and left previously dominant clubs like Celtic as too big a fish in too small a pond.
Change will remain a constant and it’s not new.
Celtic are too big for Scottish football right now and this will become an increasing problem for the club and the league in time.
From day 1 football has changed rapidly it’s just we as fans and commentators have a short term perspective and think what we have was always thus.
Go back in time.
Vale of Leven were once Giants and the NE miners team from Bishops Auckland (or somewhere like that) that Denis Waterman played for on telly won the first “World Cup” in Italy.
Where we have been let down is we don’t have men of vision running our sport.
Men who can not only handle but have the vision to utilise change.
What we have now are overpaid suits who are not football men and are all too focussed on returning what we had in the past even though it didn’t work then.
Scottish Footballs future is not as a “back to the future” with two clubs who win everything and nor is it a mini me to the English Premier League with a constant moan that we get less than them.
If that is all it is then it will continue to leverage meagre rations from Sky and the other mega funders who control sport.
Scottish Football should be built on communities and integrated with health and welfare and education.
Summer football makes sense.
So does community facilities and links into schools with coaching and life style inputs.
Real role modelling.
When the Arbroaths of this world are an integrated properly funded local power for good Scottish Football and society will be in a better place.
Last week I was taken to a match at Ainslie Park between Berwick and Spartans.
A great surface, lots of kids, no bigoted nonsense or colourful expletives and two honest sides.
Good pies too.
Neither will win the cup but great entertainment and we’ll be at the replay and if it is anything like as good as last week it’s worth the trip.
Sometimes this site focuses on too much about the pantomime that is the blue clubs journey into wherever it is headed.
Everything about what they were, are and what’s more want to be is irrelevant.
One day the corruption will be uncovered but in the meantime there is real work to be done.
The kind of work diddy teams like Spartans at Ainslie Park are doing day in day out for their communities.
And the only 5 way agreements they need is on who plays where on their 5 a side pitch!
Just imagine -Football in Scotland as a power for good even in Glasgow.
Tcup2012 says
The only time I felt uncomfortable when my son was with me was when (I know this will upset some posters on here) Hearts came calling
It is easy to demonize one team in a one off situation. If fans of all teams were given the opportunity to express which other team’s fans made them feel uncomfortable I am sure Hearts would not have a monopoly and would be surprised if Celtic did not trigger those feelings to a greater extent.
It appears as mentioned the EGM is the watershed, but what of King gets beat?
there is plenty time to make sure “offers you can’t refuse” (cotton wool now removed from cheeks) will be made….if King is defeated, is that the death knell to supporteds support? are we oign to see less than 10K permanently? if so, I dont see return to mid table dv 1 mediocrity from that point onwards. 😐
Sevco fans seem to think the EGM is the answer to all their problems … I think a Happy Ending is still a long way off …
There’s also an arrogance at large in King’s statements which it will be highly amusing to watch him try and match with reality.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-happy-ending/
With reference to th allocation of ticket to away fans, I would think the receipt of a request for additional tickets is a rare occurence for Celtic.
At most games the space reserved for away fans is comparatively empty.
I can’t recall the last time any club asked for more tickets for a domestic match against Celtic at Parkhead.
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:13 pm
tcup 2012 says:
//////////////
Season tickets used to include 1 league cup game or euro game and if very lucky (depending on the draw both) 🙂
And why shouldn’t Celtic sell season the tickets for that section?
Guaranteed money
Rather than hopeing a few teams are doing well and require more tickets than there usual allocation
Ask yourself why the smsm have never highlighted this issue before?
Or why haven’t Aberdeen asked for a bigger allocation before?
As I said a NONE story
blu says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:18 pm
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 12:05 pm
…In particular, I want to establish the basic tariff for red cards on the field of play and how/when they are applied,non-acceptance.
It looks to me like a referral is considered in the same way as if the red card had been applied at the time of the incident. Lee McCulloch and Jason Talbot were both reported to have received the sanction shown below in Annex C, Section 4 of the SFA Handbook.
Section 4 : Suspensions
1.2.1.1 A player who is reported for a sending-off offence of Serious Foul Play, Violent Conduct or Spitting at an
Opponent or Any Other Person will automatically be suspended for two matches, applied as follows:
– one match will apply immediately to the player’s Recognised Team’s next match irrespective of competition:
and
– one match will apply immediately to the next match the player’s club plays in that Specified Cup Competition.
I think you may also have been looking for this in Part 4:
15.9 Frivolous appeals and submissions
15.9.1 Where a Tribunal considers an appeal, it shall be open to the Tribunal to also consider whether:
15.9.1.1 The individual bringing the appeal had no prospect of success;
15.9.1.2 The appeal is considered by the Tribunal to have been an abuse of process or a delaying tactic for the sanction originally imposed; and/or
15.9.1.3 The appeal is considered by the Tribunal to have been a frivolous claim.
15.9.2 If Appeals Proceedings are considered by the Tribunal to fall within the parameters of Paragraph 15.9.1, an additional sanction may be imposed.
Enjoy the read – will you miss Rangers – Hibs?
==============================
Thanks Blu, that’s what I was after.
The devil’s always the detail, or in this case the annex.
It looks like I was conflating the red card tariff under the FA rules with those under the SFA. Down south that would have been three matches rather than two. it isn’t just tv deals that are lower in Scotland 😳
As for the Gerdies v Hibs game, I haven’t got BT Sport in the house, so I may try and follow it online as I’ve enjoyed watching Scott Allan on several occasions this season. I may even join Simmo and Blackie (allegedly) and have a wee punt on the game, after collecting a few quid on one of the previous meetings this season. Hibs at 2.72 looks good value on Betfair (other online bookies are available).
The ‘which club are demons’ debate is irrelevant and in danger of derailing what was a legitimate request for information (by me). Just to prove the point of variety, and for no other reason, the only club visit I won’t attend with my own brood is RFC* so there you go. I would however add that, rightly or wrongly, real world common sense dictates that it helps to sit with your family in an area as far away from the visiting support as possible since that area seems to attract the numpties on both sides of the fence. Surprised therefore at The CFC locale but that’s maybe a quirk of history?
So, celtic have an 1800 seat visitor section which can be extended by moving season ticket holders specifically for visits of RFC per the terms of their ticket. Aberdeen have a south stand section (PQR from memory) that is expandable on exactly the same basis (into ST I think).
The question therefore remains. Have AFC asked for more than the 1800 size allowance? And, presumably, have celtic turned them down on the basis that they can’t offer more without moving season ticket holders against the terms of their ticket? And thirdly, is there no other area that could be used (a top or bottom tier for instance?) I remember at the cup final that they couldn’t split the tiers because of the stairwell access.
All of this seems like common sense and fairly ‘established’ regardless of a pointless debate on ‘fairness.’ So why would AFC bother to ask for more? It seems a bit like asking for 70 seats on a 52 seater coach?
magicroundabout says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:24 pm
Tcup2012 says
/////////////
Only talking about my experience
Someone else at the exact same games may have felt completely at ease Unfortunately I did not
I also stated 99% of fans
Again you get the idiot now matter what team who takes it to the extreme 🙁
I attended an open general meeting at my favourite football club (RRFC) last night. Just to let the forum know that at that meeting Turnbull Hutton was presented with the title of Honorary Life President of the club. The club have posted the following to their Facebook page.
“At the conclusion of last night’s successful General Meeting, it was announced that former chairman Turnbull Hutton has been made Hon Life President of Raith Rovers FC following his long and distinguished service to, and support of, the club. New chairman Alan Young presented Turnbull with a framed certificate, and those in attendance gave our champion of sporting integrity a standing ovation.”
Smugas says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:51 pm
————————————-
Agree that it should just br about being sensible and trying to accommodate as many fans as possible.
Just to clarify, Celtic’s away area isn’t extendable on a game by game basis. In the old days when RFC existed Celtic sold reduced price STs that did specifically exclude the games against RFC allowing them to allocate more space for the visitors.
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Used to include? Take it no more. That was certainly more generous than most though. I’d have to say if you are paying out for a season ticket it should at least include home cup games. Euro’s maybe not, but that hasn’t been much of a problem for us until very recently!
So why shouldn’t they sell season tickets for that area. Apart from anything else I’d have thought commercial reasons would be crucial here. I haven’t seen Celtic park anywhere close to selling out for any SPFL game for a very long time. I’d have thought it would make good sense to at least be able to take advantage of selling more tickets to away support should the need arise. Ok, given recent times it’s an unusual situation, I’d be prepared to believe that it quite possibly had never even occurred to those involved that the need to offer more tickets would arise. But it has arisen, a wonder of armageddon.
Why haven’t SMSM highlighted the issue before?? I could be flippant and say cos its Aberdeen. These issues are never reported by the SMSM, and certainly not when its a diddy club thats involved.
Perhaps thats why its a non story…
But, and here again we have to look to the blue side. I don’t recall any discussions regarding the surrendering (no pun intended) tickets when RFC came to the East end, maybe there were and I just missed that. So what’s different when it comes to discussing the other 41 clubs? Have those RFC get-out-of-your-seat clause season tickets been discontinued?
AyeRightNaw says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Smugas says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:51 pm
Just to clarify, Celtic’s away area isn’t extendable on a game by game basis. In the old days when RFC existed Celtic sold reduced price STs that did specifically exclude the games against RFC allowing them to allocate more space for the visitors.
So surely it is extendable on a game-to-game basis then!? 😛
theoldcourse says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:58 pm
I attended an open general meeting at my favourite football club (RRFC) last night. Just to let the forum know that at that meeting Turnbull Hutton was presented with the title of Honorary Life President of the club. The club have posted the following to their Facebook page.
“At the conclusion of last night’s successful General Meeting, it was announced that former chairman Turnbull Hutton has been made Hon Life President of Raith Rovers FC following his long and distinguished service to, and support of, the club. New chairman Alan Young presented Turnbull with a framed certificate, and those in attendance gave our champion of sporting integrity a standing ovation.”
==========================================
“Champion of sporting integrity”.
A worthy description indeed.
And Honorary Life President is a well deserved title to take into retirement.
The whole game owes him a debt of gratitude for this, amongst many other things. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18656012
The news must be popular as it had nil TU when I added my TU and on refresh it was up to 11 TU, and in the time it took to type this it is up to 23.
indy14 says:
February 13, 2015 at 9:17 am
=====================================
I have heard many fans claim the league was fixed to help out Motherwell but I’m sure it was never officially admitted (if it was true). Does anyone remember for sure? Maybe our SMSM think something is true if it’s a rumour long enough?
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:20 pm
So why shouldn’t they sell season tickets for that area. Apart from anything else I’d have thought commercial reasons would be crucial here. I haven’t seen Celtic park anywhere close to selling out for any SPFL game for a very long time. I’d have thought it would make good sense to at least be able to take advantage of selling more tickets to away support should the need arise. Ok, given recent times it’s an unusual situation, I’d be prepared to believe that it quite possibly had never even occurred to those involved that the need to offer more tickets would arise. But it has arisen, a wonder of armageddon.
…………………………………………………..
I think too much ‘thinking’ has been attributed to those who run Scottish fitba – and giving them credit for having “commercial” aspirations wrt selling the beautiful game. It’s so much simpler – they don’t care so much about catering for fans, in general.
The Pittodrie match (V St Mirren) mentioned above with ‘cheaper’ tickets to celebrate the year of the sheep…? It also states that NO MATCH DAY TICKETS WILL BE ON SALE!
Why ever not?
Why does Scottish Football put obstacles in the way of people wanting to pay them money and perhaps be caught as fans?
Bomber’s back.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/9712932/scottish-football-john-brown-urges-former-rangers-players-to-join-battle-in-ousting-current-board
I was just idly wondering if Mr McCoist’s list of flutterers had been passed to the SFA, hence Mr Simonsen’s appearance before the judicial panel…
Stranger things have happened (especially in this tale)
fishnish says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:42 pm
The Pittodrie match (V St Mirren) mentioned above with ‘cheaper’ tickets to celebrate the year of the sheep…? It also states that NO MATCH DAY TICKETS WILL BE ON SALE!
I couldn’t even work out what that mean’t so did some digging. Seems you need to buy the reduced rate ticket from the ticket office rather than the turnstile. Daft, what difference does it make where when you buy it as long as you buy it… sigh. Just cos the illustrious lead SPFL administrators are useless doesn’t mean the rest have to follow like a flock of :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb:
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:20 pm
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Used to include?
////////////////
I say used to Because I don’t hold a ST for this season 🙁
So can’t state as fact what extras were given on the ST this year
OT
I don’t hold a ticket anymore because my son is away to the States to play college Soccer 🙂 so all my spare funds are crossing the Atlantic
He played pro youth for Hamilton from the tender age of 8 till he was 11/12
Then moved on to Falkirk were he unfortunately sustained an injury which kept him out of the game for over 3 years :'(
But he picked himself up got himself fit and back playing:-)
And noticed across the pond
Now still in his first season with Cayuga and studying to be a bean counter
He has won the league+ regionals as well as reaching the semi’s of the nationals
So if anyone of our friends in the states knows of any team willing to give a hard working and talented young man a trial let me know
Thanks
As for the none story statement
It most definitely is
The Sun are implying it is tit for tat. To try and create a story which isn’t there
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Bomber’s back.
——————————-
He says “It’s time for them to give the club back to proper people…”
Is Brown pro-King or just anti-current board? When he uses the word ‘proper’ is that code for anti (improper) King? Or not? I’ve lost track of the factions among the various fictions used. Help!
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:59 pm
Best of luck to your son! Your comment does make me wonder how much a seasons ticket is to Celtic park if not taking one out covers your transatlantic flights though 😛
“The Sun are implying it is tit for tat. To try and create a story which isn’t there”
The Sun and story shock! They only live through stoking up bad feeling between folk, horrid little rag that it is. This ticket thing is a story, but I’m perfectly willing to accept its a lack of foresight by administrators story rather than anything more sinister. I certainly hope as such anyways.
I have cause to rue Celtic’s ticket policy. I’m a Hamilton fan and I decided after our stunning 4-0 win at Fir Park that I would go the following Sunday to Celtic Park if my circumstances permitted it. But then I found out you had to buy them in advance from Accies. That was no good to me as I would only know on the day of the game, and maybe just an hour or so before kick off, if I could make it and that was too late, no tickets on sale on the day of the game! WTF!!!
Of course the afternoon arrived and it turned out I could have gone to the game. So I had to sit at home and follow it on twitter and of course we only went and won there for the first time in living memory. Thanks Celtic for making it so difficult to attend a game.
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm
————————————-
Forgive my inability to clarify. I will try again.
At present, before the season starts, Celtic sell STs to every area except the wedge normally reserved for visiting fans. For that season fans have a right to their seat or to buy a ticket for that seat in the case of non-ST cup games. There is only one type of season ticket.
In the old days, When RFC existed there were 2 types of STs. The first was as currently operates and the second was one which expressly exclude games against RFC.
So before the season started you made your choice and you knew what you were getting. Tickets and the right to a seat were never surrendered so there was no issue. There never has been a game by game ad hoc extension of the away allocation.
I would think Celtic had a historical reciprocal agreement re ticketing with RFC and would have entered into a similar arrangement with any club guaranteed to sell their total allocation on every occasion (not just when things were going well).
I hope that’s a bit clearer.
Turnbull Hutton for President of the SFA !!
Tartanwulver says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:00 pm
——————————-
He says “It’s time for them to give the club back to proper people…”
Is Brown pro-King or just anti-current board? When he uses the word ‘proper’ is that code for anti (improper) King? Or not? I’ve lost track of the factions among the various fictions used. Help!
=============================
Don’t ask Bomber; he doesn’t know exactly. Somebody’s working him from the back for their purposes, I feel.
Perhaps he’s an operative of Level5? (That’s a joke, BTW! Still, does anyone know if Jim Traynor’s got a fluffy white cat?)
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:16 pm
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2015 at 3:59 pm
Best of luck to your son! Your comment does make me wonder how much a seasons ticket is to Celtic park if not taking one out covers your transatlantic flights though 😛
//////////////
Think you tayred 😆
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm
“…..given that RIFC have had more Nomads than the Sahara Desert….”
Quite apart from the educational value, this little gem is an example of what makes reading every word of TSFM utterly compelling.
AyeRightNaw says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:23 pm
Yeah, sorry I was being a bit facetious, been having a crap day here, so have been taking it out on you guys. If I fall into Eco’s awkward squad then so be it 🙂
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:37 pm
AyeRightNaw says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:23 pm
Yeah, sorry I was being a bit facetious, been having a crap day here, so have been taking it out on you guys. If I fall into Eco’s awkward squad then so be it 🙂
————————————————–
I’m afraid you don’t meet the very exacting criteria and number of TDs required 😆
ecobhoy says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:41 pm
I’m afraid you don’t meet the very exacting criteria and number of TDs required 😆
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Curses – must try harder!!
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:37 pm
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Snap! 1.5 hrs in dentist’s chair has probably left me a bit picky.
Cheers and no bother.
Im fairly sure the not selling tickets to the away end at the ground on match day is a police thing? If not police derived, then very much police driven.
Walk ups are fine and I’ve done it myself often enough but its no use if you’ve family which I now thankfully have. Funnily enough my only challenge to my ticket status from Pittodrie was a few years ago. Like you Tayred I used to decide at 2pm I was going and walk up (or to use the short hand, I was single 😆 ah, permit me a moment – pint, football, pint, curry, pint, home….good times). I only ever used the ticket booking service where it was a big match with a risk of sellout (or facing a pillar – literally). The following season I attempted to book a ticket for an old firm game – I forgot which cheek 😈 now ) and the ticket girl was able to tell I had only booked over the phone tickets for this particular cheek’s visits for the last two years. I explained I had probably attended >80% of the other games as well but I reckon it was only my accent that eventually swung it!
ecobhoy says:
February 13, 2015 at 10:05 am
…
I had to…wind-up the office clock
…
I had to wind-up the clock daily on the archaic heating boiler
…
===========================
And there we have it Bampots !
ecobhoy has outed himself as a wind-up merchant.
I’ll get my key… 😉
tayred says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:37 pm
AyeRightNaw says:
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I have no excuse
I just love to argue 😈
The Cat NR1 says:
February 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm
“…..given that RIFC have had more Nomads than the Sahara Desert….”
_______________________________________________
Is this what you meant?
http://www.cartoonists.co.uk/beaupeep/pages/nomadbio.html
berrty says:
February 13, 2015 at 4:54 pm
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Mebbe my misreading but I was picking up on a ‘one’s as bad as other’ / ‘everything connected with them is bad’ sort of thing.
Sorry for OT-ness but this one for our Tangerine chums 🙂
http://www.cartoonists.co.uk/beaupeep/pages/hamishbio.html
mcfc says:
February 13, 2015 at 11:50 am
…
btw, I lived in the States for a few years and I’m a big fan of the BBC, despite its weaknesses. I’ve seen the alternative and it is appalling – truly appalling – the BBC is like the NHS – a jewel of British culture.
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Agreed, and my US friends still hold the BBC in high regard.
And it is truly scary that Fox/Faux News has the highest news ratings in the USA.
Opinion driven nonsense from autocue airheads. It is shockingly bad.
I used to watch Al Jazeera America here, which was really good – for balance – and reported stories that the US MSM simply ignored. For example on the sports theme ALJ provided great documentaries/reporting on the issue of NFL concussions and long-term health problems – when the US MSM TV & print had been looking the other way, up until relatively recently.
Anyways, quite a few of our friends liked ALJ too, and one day it simply disappeared off the cable TV schedule. No warning. When I complained, the answer given was ‘low viewing figures’ which was hard to believe – especially when there are literally hundreds of channels nobody watches anyway.
IIRC, ALJ had to buy their own TV network to guarantee some airtime in the US.
IMO, it seemed that in the US anyway, the MSM/big business/politicians [?] blocked out a valuable, non-conforming news outlet.