Tell me all your sweet, sweet little lies
All about the dark places you hide
Tell me all your problems, make them mine
Tell me all your sweet, sweet little lies
The stridency of Scottish journalist/pundits, particularly coming from those on the BBC Sportsound platform from where they cry out for an investigation into what took place behind the scenes before and after the SPFL put forward a resolution to SPFL clubs, subsequently accepted by the majority, that allowed SPFL to pay out needed prize money to sides below the Premier level is, to quote an old saying, “the talk of the steamie”.
Whilst those cries are ostensibly in support of a demand led by The Rangers FC for a need to change the governance at the SPFL, it is not clear if they mean the way the SPFL conduct business or the way individuals inside the SPFL go about the conduct of that business.
During on-air interviews, questions are being put to clubs about the degree of confidence they have in individuals rather than the processes, systems and structures. This suggests it is individuals who are being placed under scrutiny, and not the dysfunctional processes and structures themselves. A pity, since there is little doubt the governance is dysfunctional.
SFM has long been asking questions about the system and processes of governance and in fact tried to elicit the help of a number of journalists (in 2014) after information which had not been made available to the then SPFL lawyers Harper MacLeod during or after the LNS inquiry had surfaced.
Information that had it been made available would have changed the charges of Old Rangers’ mis-registration of players contracts, and to the more recent and unresolved matter of their failing to act in good faith to fellow club members (which the SFA Compliance Officer made in June 2018 in respect of non-compliance with UEFA FFP regulations relating to tax overdue in 2011).
Following the last Celtic AGM a detailed independent investigation by an accountant was provided to Celtic who passed it to the SFA where the matter has been overtaken by world events but not forgotten. That report can be read here.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NeNzADsUAXkcFQ6QtehK5QqNsFa6he8V
It only adds to the mountain of evidence on https://www.res12.uk that suggests the need for reform of both governance bodies, their structures, systems and process.
Instead the media have given us a narrow head hunt to remove individuals for reasons that can only be guessed. This from individuals in the media whose motivations are as questionable now as they were in 2014, when they and their organisations ignored stronger evidence of greater wrong doing than has so far been presented by those currently advocating change.
The current media clamour for heads on a plate carries with it more than a whiff of hypocrisy.
During week commencing 22 September 2014, some volunteer SFM readers posted a bundle of documents that had surfaced to a number of journalists. SFM had previously sent these documents to Harper MacLeod, the then SPL lawyers. These were important documents pertinent to Lord Nimmo Smith’s inquiry into Rangers use of EBTs, documents which had not been made available to Harper MacLeod by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps despite being requested in March 2012 as part of the commissioning of LNS.
Earlier SFM blogs provide the details of communications with Harper MacLeod and can be read from the same link(s) provided to 12 Scottish media journalists in the draft below.
Some of the addresses may have received more than one copy but apart from one for whom only an e mail address was known, they should have received at least one hard copy of what Harper MacLeod/SPFL had been provided with which the latter passed to the SFA Compliance Officer in September 2014 according to their last reply to SFM. It is unlikely none were received by the organisations they were addressed to.
The draft to the journalist which the volunteers were at liberty to amend said:
I am a reader of The Scottish Football Monitor web site and attach for your information a set of documents that Duff and Phelps, acting as Rangers Administrators in April 2012, failed to provide to the then Scottish Premier League solicitors Harper MacLeod, who were charged with gathering evidence to investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations from July 1998 involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts by Rangers FC as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
The failure to supply the requested information in the form of the attached documents as clearly instructed resulted in incorrect terms of reference being drawn up by Harper Macleod and a consequent serious error of judgement by Lords Nimmo Smith in his Decision as regards sporting advantage.
The information in the attached was provided to Harper MacLeod and the SPL Board in Feb 2014 and it was pointed out in subsequent correspondence that SFA President Campbell Ogilvie had failed to make a distinction in his testimony to Lord Nimmo Smith between the already confirmed as irregular Discount Option Scheme EBTs paid to Craig Moore, Tor Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer from 1999 to 2002/03 under Rangers Employee Benefit Trust (REBT) and the later loan EBTsfrom 2002/03 onwards under the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust (MGMRT), having initiated the first DOS EBT to Craig Moore (as shown in the attached) and being a beneficiary of a MGMRT EBT as widely reported in national press in March 2012 at the time investigations commenced.
The complete narrative was set out in a series of blogs on The Scottish Football Monitor Web Site that are accessible from
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9dnVHSl9OU3RoWm8/view?usp=sharing
(Edit: The links to the original SFM blogs were listed but some have been lost but original sources have been uploaded to Google Drive accessible from the above link)
However in spite of the correspondence sent to Harper MacLeod, there has been no response from them or the SPFL, save their answer to the original letter. (Edit: There was subsequent correspondence with Harper Macleod after the package and this letter was sent to the journalists which can be read from the above index to the original blogs.)
These points suggests that the SPFL, Harper MacLeod and Lord Nimmo Smith were misled by Duff and Phelps failure to supply the attached documents as instructed as well as Campbell Ogilvie’s failure to correct Lord Nimmo Smiths decision to treat all EBTs as “regular” when the DOS EBTs are not, as the attached evidence clearly demonstrates.
You are one of a number of journalists to whom this letter and attachments is addressed either electronically or hard copy. We are hoping that some journalists will prove themselves worthy of the challenge and investigate the story, even if only to refute it and stop suspicion of a cover up.
A copy of this letter and responses from addressees (or failures) will be published on The Scottish Football Monitor web site for the Scottish football supporting public to note. The e mail address for your reply is press@sfm.scot and we hope that you will investigate what appears to have been the corruption of the very process set up to establish the truth or you will explain why you cannot.
Yours in Sport
Note: The letter above was drafted and distributed with the documentation before a reply from Harper MacLeod was received, but as the reply did not address the issue of the nature of the irregular DOS EBTs, the request to journalists to investigate was even more valid.
The following were the journalists to whom documentation was posted/delivered.
Mr Richard Gordon
Mr Richard Wilson
Mr Tom English all at the BBC.
Mr Grant Russell
Mr Peter A Smith. At STV
Mr Andrew Rennie Daily Record Sports Editor
Mr Paul Hutcheon
Mr Graham Speirs
Mr Gerry Braiden at The Herald
Mr Mathew Lindsay Evening Times (belatedly)
Mr Gerry McCulloch Radio Clyde
Ms Jane Hamilton Freelance ex-Sun Sunday Mail (by e mail)
Only three individuals showed an interest but it is inconceivable to think that the media outlets they worked for were ignorant of the information provided or that the Scottish media sports departments are unaware of the narrative and its implications which were subsequently picked up by The Offshore Game but drew no refuting comments with the exception of Tom English.
He opined that the TOG report was ‘flawed’ although he did not specify how he came to that conclusion.
Darren Cooney of the Daily Record did take an interest in November 2015 when he met an SFM representative, who explained the case then sent him a summary to give to his editor but The Daily Record did not publish the story nor give any reason why they didn’t.
Grant Russell was with STV at the time and a meeting with him was arranged with a fellow SFM contributor but he failed to show up.
He subsequently did show an interest when The Court of Session ruled the Big Tax Case unlawful in July 2017, when he was provided with the a note of the consequences for the LNS Commission. However Grant moved jobs to join Motherwell in late October 2017.
Why bring all this his up now?
Because currently, the existence of texts and e-mails and unsubstantiated claims of skullduggery appear to have energised a media (and BBC Sports Department in particular) that had ‘no appetite’ to investigate actual evidence presented to them in 2014. There seems to be little doubt that an agenda is being followed, but as the preceeding paragraphs demonstrate, it casts doubt that their motivation is reform of the governance of Scottish football, and raises a suspicion that replacement of individuals (whose steerage of the good ship Scottish Football into the RFC iceberg was deemed adequate a decade ago) is what is important. A meaningless powerplay. No more no less.
One may jump to the conclusion that the foregoing is a defence of the individuals at the centre of this controversy, and that it defends the SPFL position in respect of the requisitioners review of governance. That would be the wrong conclusion. The point is that a wide-ranging review of the SFA/SPFL governance is way overdue.
The time window covered by any review should the very least cover the tenure of those accused of malfeasance and mis-governance. The media, and the requisitioners are cherry-picking their poor governance. That is poor governance in itself.
With them not being in the 'football' loop, do you think Castore might be completely unaware of the possible issue regarding Sports Direct? I can hardly imagine so, but equally can't imagine SD having walked away from their court-approved matching arrangement. We all know how easily a desperate TRFC can be for cash/good news to announce that I CAN imagine them forgetting to mention it if Castore were unaware.
I take it SD has made no comment either way?
Almost absolutely and entirely OT on this quiet night, let me say that I am by no means a man of business, as I think I've mentioned before.
But I do have an enquiring mind, always ready to learn by questioning.
Recently, as I also mentioned before, I was researching 'Castore' in relation to TRFC, and learned that it is a two -man outfit which just has a clothing 'brand' , and does not actually itself manufacture clothing.
I concluded (I can be quite sharp, at times!) that Castore must therefore get a manufacturer to produce the clothing that will carry the 'Castore' brand name.
Tonight, it being very quiet, I had some interesting and educational fun looking into that world- the world of the production of clothing.
On the fringes of my mind was the possibility that an Asian business newspaper may have carried a story about a company in the UK that had won the contract to produce 500 000 000 football tops etc for the self-styed 'most successful club in the world'
But of course there is no way that I am equipped ever to find out whether an Asian manufacturing company/companies (where a huge percentage of the world's clothing is manufactured) or a European company, may be in contract with Castore to produce the Castore brand of football clothing for TRFC.
However, I enjoyed learning , as an intellectual exercise without any reference to the 'saga' , that there is an organisation called Clothing Manufacturers Asia (CMA Ethical Manufacturing, so probably wouldn't ever deal with unethical clients)
If, like me, you are beginning to feel some slight effects of the 'lockdown', you might enjoy a visit to
https://www.clothingmanufacturersasia.com/about-us/
and read through its interesting and informative pages.
Its FAQ page must be one of the best of its type that I've seen.
Their PR people know what they're about.
I should maybe say that my reference to it being a 'quiet night' (my post of 23.46 last evening) does not signify that I am indifferent to the scabrous, venomous choice of images that appeared in a dirty rag of a newspaper ,that were aimed at and would appeal to feeble minds easily stirred to violence.
There are some very, very bad folk in the newspaper world, whose children will be ashamed of what they did for a living.
May the Sunday Mail die the death of Liquidation.
The manufacturers appear to be in Portugal John. They must be a super efficient outfit, having gone from replying to Sevco's advert just three months ago, to having their name leaked in connection only last month. (I think Spee & Dee Gonzales handled the negotiations and legal matters, and Roe Drunner will be the preferred courier service.
).
https://www.drapersonline.com/people/the-drapers-interview/castore-the-brand-chasing-sporting-glory/7033416.article
There are of course two similar sounding companies listed. "Castore Ltd", and "Castore Limited". One was a mail order company, now dissolved, and the other a newly incorporated……errrr mail order company….(unless somebody is giving them a wee lend of a pop-up superstore or something).
I expect the pre-order, money up front, details will be released as soon as somebody draws a wee picture of a jersey.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09967258 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12540295
Looks to me like the two brothers are going to be performing FRONT of house duties. Wyle e Coyote will be much too busy for interviews and the like.
.
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 01:02
May the Sunday Mail die the death of Liquidation.
=================
While I agree the photo yesterday was over the top, the same paper years ago had a hearse and undertaker photographed outside Celtic Park, with the headline RIP Celtic. The media thought that was fine and other fans thought it was a hoot. That completely ignored the fact that a Scottish owned bank was trying its hardest to put Celtic out of business, while affording an almost limitless overdraft to Rangers. There has been much talk recently of investigations. The Bank of Scotland's involvement with Rangers when under Scottish ownership is due one of its own in my view.
So, Castore isn’t a cultured Italian sweeper seeing out the golden years of his career in Glasgow then? I obviously haven’t been paying attention.
Seriously though the kit deal of the century has all the hallmarks of a Kirstie Allsop make do and mend operation fronted by two young guys from the Barra’s. I’m no PR guru but appearing in a publicity photograph wearing Adidas training shoes is a bit of a faux pas.
It's worth remembering that the company run by the Beahon brothers is not called 'Castore', but the J. Carter Sporting Company Ltd, company number 09670915 : 'Castore' is the brand name, and the Beahon boys have , presumably , made a deal with a manufacturer to produce the gear on their design.
It was when I saw that the J Carter Sporting Company had only 2 employees (i.e, the two brothers) that I went exploring how that all works, and that led me on the visit to the CMA .
I looked at Asia rather than Europe because it's in Asian countries that the cheap, sweated, labour force is found.
Not that I would suggest for a minute that the Liverpudlians would enter into contract with manufacturers who exploited their labour forces.
It should be easy enough to identify which manufacturer in Portugal won the contract? I think it may be that there is a middle-man there on an agency basis, who in turn will be linked via CMA ( which embraces lots of bigger manufacturers).
A pleasant hour or two of 'lockdown boredom' time-passing beckons.
Here's to it!
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 11:07
It's worth remembering that the company run by the Beahon brothers is not called 'Castore', but the J. Carter Sporting Company Ltd, company number 09670915 : 'Castore' is the brand name, and the Beahon boys have , presumably , made a deal with a manufacturer to produce the gear on their design.
===============================
You might be interested in this JC.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYNdk7VWsAAocnN?format=jpg&name=360×360 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYNdkkrWkAAgWpi?format=jpg&name=360×360
Remember when they done the switcheroo?…..Would this be as funny, or funnier?
https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262318611928145921
Today's herald sport section. Mark Hendry going big on the £25m multi year deal. Quote from Tom Beahon.
"The largest shareholders in Castore, other than myself and Phil, are one of Britain's wealthiest families. Despite what I have read a couple of weeks ago, it's not Mike Ashley! They are very private guys, multi-billionaires who have really given us their backing".
Those are a couple of interesting links, CO. What can they mean? I like David Low’s tweet from within the 11.58 one – “Well, if there’s no kit deal, there’s nothing for His Mikeness to match? That would mean Castore is just a flag of convenience, wouldn’t it?”. When Castore was first announced (and so being investigated), I think I remember reading on here and on TRFC sites that Castore had taken a big loan at the start of the year with the implication taken that this was to finance their expanse into the football mass-market world, starting with TRFC. That soothed many a worried head on TRFC sites as it seemed to explain how this small company could possibly support the HUUUUGE fanbase of “the Rangers”. What if those funds (£7.5m from memory) weren’t a loan but a takeover, hence the ‘Cessation of interest’ documents you posted at 11.40? It couldn’t seriously be Big Mike, could it, but that could explain my query from last night as to why he appears to have walked away. Is that just naughty wishful thinking on my part? Bordersdon’s post seems to be Castore still saying “It’s kosher, guys, honest”.
I think there are a couple of possibilities Nawlite. My guess is that the Sevco Superstore has replaced the pop-up shops, (a dry-run?), and Castore have just put El-mich-Eal Ashlee, an Istanbul market-trader, out of business.
Or dodgy Dave has done a £20 for me, £2 for you, deal via David Jason (Delboy, believe it or not) McLaughlin, of Castore Limited, using Castore Ltd branding….Links on my post of 02:27 last night.
League called. Possibility of a lifeboat for Hearts via temporary reconstruction 'expanding the top flight'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646282
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Corrupt official 18th May 2020 at 11:58
Remember when they done the switcheroo?…..Would this be as funny, or funnier? https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262318611928145921
==============
Absolutely!
I'll stick with my original guess: TRFC will play in unbranded kit next season, if at all!
It is shocking – even for the Ibrox omnishambles – that such a high profile contract which the supporters would take particular interest in – has supposedly been handed to a tiny business without the required experience, sales channels, partnering network, etc…
I wouldn't guess that Big Mike has any involvement though.
However, it's such a weird / amateurish set-up that I could readily believe that someone at Ibrox, (or SA?), is trying to pull a fast one to skim off a personal cut?
David Low is busy today.
https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262356000625102849
StevieBC 18th May 2020 at 13:29
'..It is shocking – even for the Ibrox omnishambles – that such a high profile contract which the supporters would take particular interest in – has supposedly been handed to a tiny business without the required experience, sales channels, partnering network, etc…'
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If you have a look at the link I gave earlier, Stevie, and read through,
https://www.clothingmanufacturersasia.com/about-us/
you'll see what seems to be a normal practice followed by designers of clothing : they will patent their design, and send it off to manufacturing companies (perhaps using CMA) which have the mills, and the fabrics, and the labour forces and machinery, using the manufacturer's specifications sheet showing exactly what they want -the fabric, the colours, the logos, lettering , the sizes range.
The manufacturers will take it from there.
Even I could fill in the specification sheets, I suppose, if I was a dress-designer familiar with the trade language, and knew a seam from a gushet.
I've no personal animus against the Beahon brothers and their shareholders (except that they are prepared to deal with a business that I myself wouldn't touch with a barge pole, and buy into the untruthful crap that emanates from Ibrox.
What would be of interest is how much per shirt, shorts, stockings , jackets on which the brand name 'Castore' is stitched does the J Carter Sporting Club get from the selling price.
I read that they have a hoodie or a jacket that is silver coloured by day, absorbs the light of the sun, and turn green at night which will sell for £600.
They'd need to watch that their brand name doesn't lose value by being on a common or garden fitba'tap available to much lesser figures than Andy Murray.
‘John Clark 18th May 2020 at 15:07
…They’d need to watch that their brand name doesn’t lose value by being on a common or garden fitba’tap available to much lesser figures than Andy Murray.’
#######################################
The auld cynic in me thinks that they’ve discovered the market for ‘mid-level’ clothing is very tough to break into, even with/despite a non-playing Andy Murray’s support. If last year’s figure of £750k turnover is accurate, that’s not a lot of sales at their quoted prices.
I suspect that their fitba’ related gear will be treated as a cheaper, ‘diffusion’ or ‘bridge’ line (more fashion lingo for you to assimilate, John!), with prices perhaps less than half of their current ‘signature’ (ooops, mair lingo!) offerings. We’ll see in the coming weeks.
Let us hope the SPFL clubs agree to reconstruction, even if only for a season or two. It is the right thing to do and suits the majority of the member clubs. Well causes detriment to the lowest number is probably more accurate.
Celtic now offering refunds for the cancelled games now that the league has been called. If you do not request a refund your money remains in the club. Personally I won’t ask for a refund but not everyone can afford to do that.
I imagine any season ticket holder from any club will have a statutory right to a refund should they wish.
Homunculus 18th May 2020 at 18:16
I think I may have inadvertently started an SFM Poll on the reconstruction issue.
Should I thumb up myself, it just seems wrong.
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
I would imagine that would depend on the individual T&Cs people agree to when they got their ticket. However I suppose some could do it as a gesture. I just don't see clubs being able to afford that just now.
From a SFM point of view I will be glad when all of this stuff from the past month is no longer a hot topic. I want the Jambos back for instance.
I can understand that the blog has appeared more Celtic centric recently. Because of the connections between;
Hampden – Rangers/sevco – governance – 2011 onwards – corruption – mistrust – club's self interest – priorities – etc etc.
But mixed up in all that was relegation. Personally I feel for PT more than any other. Sorry Jambos! The least worst option for me would have been the temp. solution. 14 team premiership. But the whole set up needs a longer look and permanent. With FORESIGHT.
And we had the weird feelings with a lot of Celtic supporters, like me, who had as much love for Neil Doncaster in his roles at Hampden as we did for Regan et. al., but almost supporting him because the club from Ibrox were the ones who had the bare faced cheek to be leaders in the demand for better governance. Anne Budge got caught up in this for her own reasons. But does not come out of this smelling of roses. She should have distanced herself and Hearts much, much more forcefully from the dubious reasons and ambitions of TRFC. Whatever they were. (chuckle). She should have stuck to her guns on relegation. To blindly support TRFC, by her own admission, was foolish. Would have been better if she came up with her own resolution.
I know I'll not be speaking for other Thistle supporters in saying that , although we weren't the worst team in the division , we'd played ourselves into the position we were in when the season was ended . We actually looked like we were turning the corner , and if we'd turned the draws into wins , especially at home , we would have been safe . It's not nice to be relegated (again!) but it gives you hope that we might win a game or two when football resumes (thought that this year too !) . Apart from the financial setback , I don't see where Ann Budge is coming from – Hearts were by far the worst side I've seen in the past couple of years , including us , and she should accept that it was her loyalty to an incompetent manager that put paid to their season – we had one in Caldwell . Look to the future !
Homunculus18th May 2020 at 19:04
========
I never really considered the terms and conditions question. It's a fair point.
TBH I think most fans if they can afford to will not ask for a refund. It's what fans do when their club needs help, and the season tickets will have been paid for some time ago.
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 11:07
I looked at Asia rather than Europe because it’s in Asian countries that the cheap, sweated, labour force is found.
……………
Looking for some help here with the memory.
I seem to remember David murray i think switched the manufacture of the ibrox replica kit to a far off distant land, but never told the fans as they were still paying top dollar for a kit made for a small outlay. Problems arouse when the replica kit after one was started to bobble (looked as if it had been worn and washed a hundred times) the material looked the same as the official kit but the material was of a lesser quality and could not stand up to the wash.
If i remember hand wash only was the remedy but most wanted a cash refund or a better quality shirt for the price they paid.
Any help with this memory, or is the mind playing tricks?
Homunculus 18th May 2020 at 19:04
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
…………..
Celtic and the ibrox club’s terms and conditions.
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1262453415898001408/photo/1
Celtic. If the club is umable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purpouse of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the club,and the match fixture is not re-scheduled, the holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.
…..
The ibrox club. The club cannot eccept any liability for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled.
To keep with the Fleetwood Mac theme of the blog title – I am someone who has been running in the shadows for many years.
I can't help feeling that clubs are getting their knickers in a twist over who are in which leagues next season for no reason. We will not know for a few months what teams will be playing in Scottish Football next season. For now all teams should be listed in one table top to bottom as the concluded leagues state. Planning should be undertaken by the leagues on the basics like the hows and whys football can be played here, the safety of players, officials and fans. Most importantly, the clubs should be considering whether putting additional stress on our front line services by playing is morally and socially justified. The composition of the leagues can wait.
We are being driven towards finalised league structures not by the sport but by the businesses. The teams that are being relegated are complaining of the loss in revenue brought about by playing in a lower league but at the same time are accepting the money from the broadcasting deals. It is the finalisation of these deals that would appear to be the driving force behind the league structures being known now. Is that what we want for our sport?
Our fight against COVID19 is with us for the long run and all the talk of starting the new season should not be driven by financial necessity. Football is no different from any other business in the country and those involved in it deserve no preferential treatment. So when chairmen or players bleat about the possible loss of income our view in return should be to balance their concerns against the same threat to tradesmen, factory workers our council employees. In fact, the bigger earners in our sport should be treated with a lesser concern as, if they were unable to build a rainy day fund, their profligacy is what has put them in the position the find themselves.
Cluster One 18th May 2020 at 23:18
omunculus 18th May 2020 at 19:04
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
…………..
Celtic and the ibrox club’s terms and conditions.
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1262453415898001408/photo/1
Celtic. If the club is umable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purpouse of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the club,and the match fixture is not re-scheduled, the holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.
…..
The ibrox club. The club cannot eccept any liability for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled.
=========================================
C1, I saw and commented on the Rangers* clause some time back. I’m not a lawyer but it didn’t seem to me to be a clear cut statement that there would be no refund if matches were cancelled. What it did say was that they accepted no responsibility for any “expense incurred even in the event that the match was cancelled’.
Does that imply that they DO have responsibility for a partial refund of the season ticket? If not, why not also make that crystal clear in the same clause?
Rangers* only appear to exclude a responsibility to cover an expense incurred. There was no definition of ‘expense’ or ‘expense incurred’ in the passage I saw. Does ‘expense incurred’ include the cost of the ticket? Is the “expense incurred” the costs resultant on the changed match timing or cancellation? Arguable I suspect – any legal precedent?
The Celtic* clause covering this seems fairly clear to me. “If the Club is unable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purposes of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the Club, and that match fixture is not re-scheduled, the Holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.”
For reasons beyond Celtic’s control the matches cannot be completed and are not being re-scheduled = a refund.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Celtic* – joshing, folks… 🙂
redlichtie
Maybe it's ticketus the fans should be claiming, just a thought
I believe the basic rule with any contract is that if there is an area of dubiety then it should be read to favour the party which did not draw up the agreement.
That could however just be something I got into my head, I have no way of substantiating it whatsoever.
It might be called contra proferentem.
Homunculus 19th May 2020 at 10:38
I believe the basic rule with any contract is that if there is an area of dubiety then it should be read to favour the party which did not draw up the agreement.
That could however just be something I got into my head, I have no way of substantiating it whatsoever.
It might be called contra proferentem.
==================================
I’m with you on this Homunculus.
The Competition and Markets Authority might have something to say about that clause too. https://www.coronavirus-business-complaint.service.gov.uk/ (“Report a business behaving unfairly during the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak”)
Rangers* will have insurance to cover it anyway. Won’t they?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Cluster One 18th May 2020 at 23:02
'..Looking for some help here with the memory………I seem to remember David murray i think switched the manufacture of the ibrox..'
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Sadly, Cluster One, I can't recall : but it sounds like the kind of flanker a loyal knight of the Realm who used a dodgy tax scheme would pull!
Further to my post @ 9:25
The fans of the teams that are "disadvantaged" by the final league placings should consider why they are objecting. Their teams are disadvantaged at a business level to a degree that changes could be called for to compensate that but at the football level I do not believe there is a fairer alternative. The rules are clear that the leagues can be called and I do not believe that there can be any more straight forward reason to call them than the risk to the health of a large amount of people. Accept that and how the positions have been decided is far and away the least unfair. This has not been done by "freezing" the place that all teams are at the time the league is ended. It is working the positions from the average performance of the teams over a seven month period. To argue "Aye but we could have …." is delve into the unknown. Those that argue this way would be happy, in the main, to have the leagues finished at a later date and not called now. That would have definite "known" disadvantages for some teams who may have to field weaker teams because player contracts running down. There is no method that would be completely painless.
Of course we are hearing calls for changes to the leagues but this too will adversely affect some clubs. The call by teams like Hearts to make the changes, but only if it is guaranteed to be temporary, are forcing clubs to adjust their financial model to play in a higher league only to be forced to return to the lower league when we have a 3 or 4 team relegation in a couple of seasons.
Many teams will be disadvantaged by the calling of the leagues (my own, Hibs, will lose c.£100K) but what we have at present is far and away the fairest to my mind.
Mickey Edwards
Thank you for putting into words what I've struggled to do! Agreed that relegation might not be fair but any temporary change, which Ann Budge was promoting, will inevitably lead to more unfairness in the future.
Take the words of Stephen Pressley, in the Daily Record online, where he has criticised the SPFL for their decision to relegate Hearts and promotes the idea of 14 team leagues as being the fairest way forward. He then goes on to suggest it'll be just one of those things that 3 or 4 clubs may have to be relegated in a season or two! Not a surprise that he also accuses others of self interest!
Adam812 @ 14:36
In a business context self interest is not only acceptable but should be encouraged as it is what is expected of directors of any company. Where it becomes unacceptable is when a handful of companies hold power over the majority by having a de facto monopoly written into the conditions of a trade organisation that itself can prevent non-members from operating the same business in the country.
It gets worse when that business is responsible for running a sport. The two are incompatible.
The sport is not considered when chairmen argue over loss of income. This is most glaring when a business signs contracts that guarantee conditions that the sport cannot provide with the certainty that contract law requires. Four Celtic/TRFC league matches in one season spring to mind.
In the case of Hearts, Ann Budge is looking for the sport's rules to be altered to compensate for the dent in the company's balance book that this season's mismanagement has created. It goes further back than one season with uncontrolled personnel spending and a new stand that is c.£10M over-budget. Perhaps she should look not to the sporting administrators for monetary recompense but to the business associates and contractors that allowed a building project to run so far out of control. The fact that the control of this project was awarded to one of her own family might be an appropriate starting place.
But we are talking business again and the sporting aspect is being ignored.
https://twitter.com/oldfirmfacts1/status/1262751175071289349?s=21
Lord Foulkes just a wee bit behind the curve.
Neeext!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52728938
See Phil's posted it on his, too. Auldheid?
The Scottish FA has dropped charges against Rangers over alleged irregularities in paperwork which allowed them to compete in the 2011/12 Champions League.
It had been considering legal action in the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland, but has now effectively killed off any prospect of disciplinary action over the long-running issue.
The saga began when “contradictions” were found between information in Rangers’ application for a licence to play in UEFA’s premier club tournament and testimony given during the fraud trial of former owner Craig Whyte.
Rangers claimed in the application they had no tax debts – which must be declared to qualify for a licence – but former directors said in court that the club knew they had an overdue bill.
ADVERT
The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court.
An SFA-convened independent panel upheld that jurisdiction agreement 18 months ago, with the governing body sent away to consider its next steps.
After a lengthy internal review and receiving legal advice, the Hampden board has now decided to drop the charges rather than fight a lengthy and expensive legal battle.
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook, which only allowed for a standard fine of £5,000 for breaking the rules, or a top end fine of £10,000 in extreme circumstances.
ADVERT
The Scottish FA hierarchy felt the costs of pursuing the case in Lausanne, which could run to six figures, were prohibitive to a charge that would merit only a maximum £10,000 fine. The board were also advised that the prospects of victory at CAS were not high.
A brief statement on the Scottish FA website read: “A Judicial Panel convened to consider a Notice of Complaint raised against Rangers FC in 2018 – in relation to alleged new evidence regarding representations received prior to the awarding of a European licence for season 2011/12 – determined at a preliminary hearing that it did not have jurisdiction to determine the matter.
“Instead, it concluded that jurisdiction lay with the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
“Following consideration of the implications of such a referral, including legal opinion, it was the board’s unanimous position that this matter should not be referred to CAS.
“The Scottish FA now considers the matter to be closed.”
……………..
The cost is too nuch and are afraid of the implications, is that what they are saying?
Cluster One @ 16:13
Oh well, at least big Peter vill be happy..
And all perfectly timed , while Celtic fans are celebrating their title win and Rangers fans crying in their beer. , says it all really about the SFA . Im sure Celtic knew about this and hoped that there wouldnt be too much of a stink as their as their fans would be distracted by title celebrations . .Come to think of it , How the hell have Rangers been allowed to play in Europe next season ( if they are still with us ) . No way do they meet UEFA ffp
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52728938
Quelle Surprise!!!!
The SFA know they are every bit as guilty as RFC in this matter and have never wanted it investigated.
Crowd fund the Res12 guys to take it to court
"The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court."
Confirmation the SFA has no jurisdiction over 2angers.
normanbatesmumfc 16.51
crowd fund Res 12 guys to take it to court……..I think that be a popular proposal
I wonder if Auldheid and the gang would be up for that
Well, there we have it then! "..“Following consideration of the implications of such a referral,"
Gutless wonders , feart that some people might have to face criminal charges. Proof positive that our Football Governance is based on fear, greed, falsehood and moral turpitude.
Bad cess to the wicked , wicked unprincipled swine. May their personal rewards/fortunes from the business of football die with their football clubs!
What absolute mugs we would be to think of contributing even one penny to line the pockets of such as those.
Mickey Edwards 19th May 2020 at 15:10
“Ann Budge is looking for the sport’s rules to be altered to compensate for the dent in the company’s balance book that this season’s mismanagement has created.”
No, she’s looking for the opportunity to address the unfairness of being punished for the entirely random acts and timing of an unprecedented global pandemic, a situation other clubs agree nobody should suffer as a result of, yet bizarrely vote in financial self-interest against the only action which would avoid such unfairness.
Yes, Budge and Hearts have been abysmal in most of the thirty league games played, but not one single person can say with guaranteed certainty that they weren’t going to haul back a four point defecit within the 24 points available to play for.
St Johnstone spent many weeks firmly rooted to the foot of the table before a six game golden spell saw them leap up the table to the safety of sixth place. Ross County couldn’t buy a win before the season was ended early.
Rangers* looked like leapfrogging over Celtic at the top of the table at the tail end of December, yet Celtic pulled 13 points clear a handful of games later, further demonstrating that nobody can accurately predict what would happen in the final eight or nine matches.
Do Partick Thistle deserve to be relegated despite being only two points behind with a game in hand on Queen of the South, or did their off-field business not contribute to their perilous league position in the same way as Hearts?
If the SPFL genuinely wanted to look after all its 42 members, rather than just 39 of them, I’m sure it could have found a way of tying such a proposal into the release of prize money, just as it did a few short weeks ago amid such acrimony.
I know it must be difficult for the Celtic-minded majority on here to put themselves in Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer’ position, but I can assure you there isn’t one club or support who would sit back and do nothing in the face of the expulsion forced on those three clubs in such unprecedented circumstances.
Highlander 19th May 2020 at 18:04
'…to address the unfairness of being punished for the entirely random acts and timing of an unprecedented global pandemic'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
…whereas our wretched Governance people are rolling over , happy to let RFC of 1872 (RFC 2012) and people associated with the Res 12 issue escape any scrutiny, in spite of that club and at least some of its officers being definitely guilty of sports cheating and possibly guilty of much worse.
Hearts indeed are innocent of any charge of cheating and are deserving of better consideration.
RFC of 1872on the other hand and its then officers were guilty of sports cheating on a grand scale yet will escape any kind of forensic investigation into their murky actions a decade ago.
It's pitiful that we are so incapable of finding honest brokers in our Sports governance.
The SFA continues to take the p!ss out of the paying punters.
Can us fans not agitate to ditch both the SFA and the SPFL from the Scottish game?
It might not be our ball but it’s definitely our game – and these 2 bodies continue to fail US spectacularly season after season, and nothing seems to change or improve.
Highlander 19th May 2020 at 18:04
Thistle ST holder here , Highlander , who reckons that we might be taking one for the team , but also reckons that it's time to accept that this league season has ended . The unplayed matches have been decided on a points-per-game basis , and the tables finalised . By all means look at reconstruction , but let it be for the right reason , and not to save poorly performing clubs from being relegated . Are we to go through reconstruction every time a "big" club underperforms and finds itself relegated ? My sympathy, if any , lies with the clubs denied a chance of promotion . We should accept that we are where we are , and be working , as a single ,disciplined unit , on plans to take us where we want to be . Unfortunately , all I see are vested interests and selfishness .
RES12 wasn't about Sevco, or Rangers(I.L.), but their co-accused, The SFA.
The fact that the SFA bottled out of charging their co-accused, has no bearing on the allegations the SFA faced. The SFA may well consider the matter closed, but that is not their domain to decide. The RES12 bhoys will be the ones who decide if the matter is closed. I hope they pursue the matter further. Fraud is fraud.
Imagine the scene.
PC Plod….."Did you smash that windae?"
Wee ned….."Aye, but the matter is closed!"
PC Plod…."Fair enough, On yir way then".
Time for an SFM petition open to any other stakeholders to join?
"Scottish football supporters have no confidence in the SFA and SPFL."
Scottish Football needs to register dissatisfaction with the football authorities at this critical time.
Highlander,
The season is what it is because of an unprecedented world event. In any sport you can only work with the known knowns to settle the outcomes. In a sporting context there can only be an end to the uncertainty by framing the result within the rules at the time of the cessation. The rules do not have anything about extending the leagues to prevent "unfairness". To blame self interest as the reason for Hearts possible relegation is turning a blind eye to Budge's assertion that she would chair the restructuring group only if they stuck to her demands- the change MUST be temporary. What were you saying about self interest?
As a olive branch may I offer what I said in my first post. I believe that Hearts will be in the top division when hostilities resume. For just one top tier club to go to the wall will mean every other club will move up one place in the structure and every team that fears they are about to be relegated will still be in their current league.
Of course, if today's events are anything to go by a spanner may head into the works if it is TRFC that hits the buffer. I expect everything possible to be done to ensure a team is playing out of Ibrox next season. I suggest that that is the time to sharpen up your pitchfork.
I think efforts should be made to force the publication of the five-way-agreement , as it seems to supersede all football rules and regs in Scotland . I would suggest that TRFC and CFC fans are united in wishing to see this aberration in the public domain as they see it as being detrimental to their club's wellbeing . and the rest of us see it as being detrimental to the game up here as a whole . If I recall correctly (quiet at the back!) , we were told that it was BDO who had objected , and don't know if anything can be done , if that is the case .
I wouldn't like to guess what Auldheid's reaction to this news will be. He has, I think, not ruled out going to court in the past. His group do not have direct access to the CAS, so without the co-operation of eg Celtic then the Court of Session it would have to be. I think!
If crowd funding is required count me in! Likewise a petition.
A court case might just be the tool or spark to see significant reconstruction on football governance in Scotland.
The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court.
……………..
The question now is if any other charges for anything are brought against an ibrox club, will the 5 way agreement come into play?
A lot of journalists these last few months have been crying out for transparency, i wonder if we will hear their voices in the coming days?
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook, which only allowed for a standard fine of £5,000 for breaking the rules, or a top end fine of £10,000 in extreme circumstances.
the Hampden board has now decided to drop the charges rather than fight a lengthy and expensive legal battle.
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook,
………….
There are charges to be brought but the SFA don’t want to pursue them ias they believe it will cost too much and also shine a light on the SFA.
Cluster One 19th May 2020 at 21:23 Edit
If that is you or any other SFM contributor jousting with JasBoyd on Twitter I would save my fingers.
He is evidence resistant in that anything that challenges his narrative becomes an never ending semantics tennis match.
He might have a point somewhere in there if there was no question that what the SFA were given on 30th March 2011 as proof that no payable existed at 31st March, was a letter stating that a payable did not exist at 31st Dec. A potential liability existed then but from 21st March a payable existed.
RFC tried to get the bank to agree to pay and HMRC were ready to wait a while if the bank agreed but when you approach the bank to pay you are not talking about a potential liability you are talking about a payable.
So the proof offered describing a payable as a potential liability on 30th March was a lie under UEFA terminology. In fact UEFA only use the term "payable" and not liability in their rules.
However apart from it not being about whether a payable existed (overdue or not) Jas states Auldheid shelled out £30k of shareholders money as if they were being led a dance.
1. The amount was a third of that so he is lying.
2. The main contributors (3) knew exactly what they were funding.
3. The one crowd funding attempt was in fact independently carried out by CQN by sale of T Shirts and the excess raised (over £800 from memory) was given to Marys Meals.
He also goes on about Celtic lawyers saying internally at Celtic there was no case to answer. Well that is news to the requisitioners A feature of this whole debacle has been Celtic's reluctance to make a statement one way or another in respect of did a case exist, particularly after being handed the evidence that a payable existed at 31st March and how that influenced the non application of the relevant rule, with suggestion Celtic approach UEFA privately to get an answer and if UEFA confirmed no case then the matter would be closed. Celtic never did. So again a pack of lies that Celtic knew no case to answer.
I refuse to engage with the guy for the above reason he is so desperate to be right he tells lies and if he is prepared to do that how dependable is the rest of what he writes?
He does his fellow Rangers supporters no favours by lying to them about Res12 attempts to do what his club have suddenly realised, Scottish football governance is corrupt and if he does not see that add hypocrisy to his mendacity.
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:26
For jas i have a tolerance level. I like to see how the other half work. and i don’t have the heart to block (although i should and save my fingers)The dregs he drags along with him are stretching my tolerance level of him though.
Sometimes an old dog has to be put down though, even when it goes against what you want.
My previous leads nicely to where the SFA have put Celtic and the governance of Scottish football by their statement without an explanation for closing the matter.
Only an explanation that sets out whether the licence was processed within the rules in 2011 (and there is one about telling the truth) and that there was no breach of the Article governing overdue payables OR the other Article requiring Rangers to notify the SFA of any change in circumstances since they granted the licence on 19th April 2011, a change which happened on 20th May six days before UEFA were notified of Scottish clubs to whom licence had been granted on 26th May will bring closure. All else is avoidance.
Anything less is dereliction of duty by the SFA to carry out their responsibility to administer THEIR judicial protocol on which the credibility of Scottish football depends.
When supporters buy an ST for loyalty reasons what assurances can clubs give that the rules on which the game depends are being upheld without fear or favour?
What protocol allows Petrie an architect of the 5 Way Agreement to sit as Chairman on The SFA Board that have decided to stop investigating the basis of the decision by the Licensing Committee that Petrie chaired in 2011?
Celtic still are answerable to their shareholders at AGMs, which is where this will go next unless they make a statement either that no deception took place and support it or that it did, but in the long term interests of Scottish football they will not pursue the compensation that the evidence at https://www.res12.uk/ suggests they are entitled to seek.
Its still not over.
With the old rangers dead the spotlight would have shone on the SFA, It is no wonder they want it dropped.
jimbo 19th May 2020 at 20:24
‘.I wouldn’t like to guess what Auldheid’s reaction to this news will be.’
“”””””””””””””””
I suspect that it will be the same as that of any of us who simply cannot believe that the SFA can so contemptuously dismiss the prima facie evidence that falsehoods were told by the club that was seeking a UEFA competitions licence.
And that that falsehood may have been endorsed by the SFA licensing committee.
These are serious matters that an already very suspect ‘governance body’ cannot be allowed to sweep under the carpet!
God’s truth! What have we got here? Rotten bastards as rotten as some of those who cheated the taxman or those who created the monstrous Big Lie?
Men of straw, unprincipled as the tykes that killed RFC of 1872?
Yes, that’s what we have.
Would you give a penny now to any of the owners of/ major shareholders in any football club?
Hell mend ye!
[I now see that Auldheid has spoken: sorry about that, I hadn’t refreshed afore I posted!]
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:52
'..Its still not over…'.
"""""""""""""""""
Absolutely.
I think that I would now want to test the integrity of the COPFS.
I, as a humble citizen, believe that a crime may have been committed.
Would I be safe in going to a polis station near me to report my concerns?
Would I feel safe?
Not in the least.
and I live in Edinburgh!
Where ,as it happens, the arch-cheat of football has 'managed' to get permission for a big 'development'!
https://twitter.com/ChrisSuttonCSC/status/1262786510715342855
Celtic have offered season ticket holders a refund on the unplayed matches. Some will accept the refund, and some not, and it is very hard to predict a percentage either way.
Of those who will refuse the refund, I wonder how many would be happy to write a wee letter saying that they are only refusing it on condition the monies are used to bring justice, to RES 12, and equally, those who will be accepting the refund, how many, would be happy to have a change of heart, subject to the same condition.
As I see it the maj shareholders had the power, but this would be a power not in their hands, but in the hands of fans.
“Of those who will refuse the refund, I wonder how many would be happy to write a wee letter saying that they are only refusing it on condition the monies are used to bring justice, to RES 12, and equally, those who will be accepting the refund, how many, would be happy to have a change of heart, subject to the same condition.
As I see it the maj shareholders had the power, but this would be a power not in their hands, but in the hands of fans.”
Corrupt Official, An admirable idea. It would give the Celtic PLC board a get out in terms of the Hampden suits – our hands were forced by a fan base. But this procedure would require the agreement in the first place by the Celtic board. I strongly suspect they would not be minded to go with this.
Did Fergus McCann worry too much about going to a civilian court? Stuff UEFA. They knew and know exactly everything that has gone on and sat back and did nothing! Did they even think about taking the SFA to CAS?
Celtic are not dependant on fan donations for legal fees. Without knowing any details I believe they have a law firm on retainers? Aside from that, Celtic, and especially it’s major shareholder, could easily afford the risk of a six figure legal bill.
They got the silver bullet, but they do not have the gumption to fire the gun I fear.
Does anyone? Just bring it up at the next AGM again. Play the long, long, long game.
The truth will come out in the end. Just like the Royal family whose dirty secrets are kept hidden until about 2 generations after the death of the perpetrator/s.
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:26
I don't know what "jousting with JasBoyd on Twitter" has occurred but I know I won't be wasting my time finding out.
JasBoyd on Twitter is yet another iteration of Spoutpish; aka Niall Walker, The Lawman, Steerpike, Ernest Becker and others too numerous and tedious to recall but each claiming to be a reasonable chap.
jimbo 20th May 2020 at 07:41
Just bring it up at the next AGM again.
……………
I believe that may be the only time we get a response from celtic
And so the day after the SFA, shamefully, decide to ignore a significant issue in terms of football governance in this country, the cutting edge journalism and headline story from BBC Scotland is an article from Tom English recalling the 20 “daftest” moments over the last season in Scottish football – tells you all you need to know about the agenda and ethics of both the organisation and the journalist himself.
As per the whole basis for the existence of this blog, the media in this country seem determined to aid and abet the continual failure of the bodies that govern the game.
Cluster One @12.12
I’ve given up all hope of Celtic leading the charge in righting the wrongs. They appear to be too complicit.
That is why I ask the question ‘Does anyone?’
The obvious answer would be Auldheid et al. But do they/he wish to go down the legal route? What about money? I’m all for crowd funding them but could they raise enough? Who knows. (unless you try?) They most definitely have the best knowledge and data base and the experience of this issue since 2013.
Is there a rich individual or group of individual willing to fund this. With or without the assistance of the resolutioners.?
What is the alternative to going to court? I haven’t a clue! As I said, keep bringing it up at the AGMs? Trying to shame the board into action? Bring a blow torch!
One thing is for certain, the media will not argue the case.
I don’t trust the SFA.
I don’t trust the SPFL either.
This latest, SFA dereliction of duty – and the offhand manner in which it was announced – is probably no surprise at all to the informed Internet Bampots.
However, I am extremely disappointed in my own club’s silence on this Euro license fraud.
My own club is – by default – complicit in maintaining the status quo in Scottish football governance.
My own club is not interested in doing – or being seen to do – the right thing.
I always believed, (naively perhaps), that my club was better than that.
If a supporter can’t trust his own club, then where does that leave the future of Scottish football?
jimbo 20th May 2020 at 07:41
Corrupt Official, An admirable idea. It would give the Celtic PLC board a get out in terms of the Hampden suits – our hands were forced by a fan base. But this procedure would require the agreement in the first place by the Celtic board. I strongly suspect they would not be minded to go with this.
————————————————————————————–
I'll see your "Strongly suspect", and raise you a "Not a cat in hell chance" Jimbo. Everyone knows Celtic will do nothing until it becomes financial. What I am suggesting is not a boycott, but the response may lead to one. I'd suggest using the refunds as leverage stands more chance of provoking a favourable response, than an AGM at the end of the year, when the ST window is closed.
Pressure must be applied now while the fans have a bit of clout. Club finances are already strained and any pressure applied now will be magnified.
In effect, fans will not be damaging the club financially, as the club already has those monies in its possession. Fans will simply be asking the PLC, "Are you worthy of our goodwill?"….
I'll bet it is a goodwill hoped for and to an extent, expected.
How the PLC reacts to a withdrawal of that goodwill is their business……Literally !
A well run business would choose to keep the monies and ward off a boycott at the same time.
At a year end AGM they will be warding off nought but a few cat-calls.
I've just realised that Juventus will complete their very own 9IAR if they win the Serie A this season.
But they are only 1 point ahead of Lazio, whereas Lazio has a better Goal Difference by +11 goals.
They have both played 26 games of 38.
The league is planning to decide what to do about this season on May 28th.
Could you imagine if that was the scenario here between the top 2 SPL teams…?
StevieBC, Civil War !
Corrupt official 20th May 2020 at 06:54
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Celtic have offered season ticket holders a refund on the unplayed matches. Some will accept the refund, and some not, and it is very hard to predict a percentage either way.
…………….
Some will accept the refund, and some not,Of those who will refuse the refund, I would hope many would be happy to write a wee letter saying to the PLC, “Are you worthy of our goodwill? and Trust? If the Answer is yes you can keep my season ticket refund. If the Answer is NO i will be happy to take my season Ticket refund and donate it to charity.
This lets the board answer a question, if they do supply an answer, and it lets the season Ticket holder know were they stand with the board.It also lets the board know many fans are not happy.
Cluster One 20th May 2020 at 16:03
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm not sure why you have to ask the Board again. This answer has been painfully clear ever since Res12 was tabled all those years ago.
As JC says further up this thread. If there is evidence of a crime having been committed then the Res12 guys should pass it to Police Scotland via their lawyer and ask for it to be investigated.