A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia
As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently. It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”
You get the idea. The other blind men did little better. The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear. Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail). What does this have to do with this blog? Let me explain.
There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman. It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth. The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand. He said:
“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”
I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further. I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand. Which leads me to my tale …..
I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours. It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:
“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”
I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement. I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”. This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations.
You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing. This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans. FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:
“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”
This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA. Why is this issue so important? Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities. For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever. Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race. I believe Scottish football was damaged. Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death. This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world. For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined. The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance. Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.
There are many benefits to club licensing. These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more. I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play. Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:
10.3 Benefits
Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general. For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:
• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;
• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;
• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;
• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and
• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.
For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;
• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;
• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;
• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and
• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.
For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;
• enable better management decision-making;
• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;
• improve financial stability; and
• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.
Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear. Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor. The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone. This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.
To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty. It puts all of football in danger. We cannot allow this. There is too much at stake.
The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth. There is a lesson for us all in this story. This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate. It is not. To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.
This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance. Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life. I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future.
We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.
BBC have decided to paint a negative picture on the Celtic statement…………..profits are not as much………wow! Talk about glasses half empty half full…………….anyone would think there is an agenda to paint Scottish football as going to the wall………………….
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26089218
Celtic profits fall despite Champions League involvement
Celtic have reported a drop in profits despite qualifying for the Champions League group stage.
Half yearly figures to the end of December 2013 show a profit of £10.5m – down from £13m the previous year.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
February 7, 2014 at 4:19 pm
7 0 Rate This
hamemadesoup says:
February 7, 2014 at 4:14 pm
1 0 Rate This
gamesabogey says:
February 7, 2014 at 3:49 pm
2 0 Rate This
Dundee Utd wipe out all of their debt; Celtic report more than £5 mm cash in the bank; the League Cup Winners will come from outside Glasgow for the third season in a row; what a sorry state of affairs
——————————————–
And long may it continue . Hearts and Dunfermline’s successful CVA exits were fantastic news also . The Armageddon seems to have been safely contained within the four corners of a certain stadium . Obviously the SFA have came out of this looking like lumpy-carpet owning fools but FAN power can repair that situation .
On the subject of the SFA , why don’t Scottish fans boycott internationals until the three amigos(Regan , Doncaster and RC Ogilvie) are ousted ?
===========================================
there has been one club severely damaged by the financial collapse of Rangers FC PLC
and that club is…………The Rangers Football CLUB Ltd – Sevco.
——————
‘Lumpy-carpet owning fools’ , coffee well and truly spat out !!! Brilliant!
Definitely no Armageddon down here in Doonhamerland !
thepinkpanther says:
February 7, 2014 at 4:49 pm
1 0 Rate This
‘Lumpy-carpet owning fools’ , coffee well and truly spat out !!! Brilliant!
Definitely no Armageddon down here in Doonhamerland .
——————————————
Rumour has it that you need crampons and a St Bernard to get to Ogilvie’ s desk ! 😉
Unless some brave soul on here (maybe a Pars fan) volunteers to do a running commentary, I may peruse the opening credits of a Pretendygers game tonight for the first time.
Only in order to see if GW appears or not:
If he does I can harrumph at Law and send him an “I told you” reminder sure in the knowledge that his wages will not be forthcoming along with many other players who saw the pot of gold and defected.
If he does not I can do the same, just maybe a week later. 😈
Bookie prices suggest that Rangers* have a 85% chance of winning tonight
Insert any Sevco midfielder gambling jokes in brackets.
*As they are called on the coupon
Quite apart from whether or not the camera men can derig (whatever that is), in a day, notwithstanding the fact that there appeared to be credible concerns regarding Ibrox’s safety, security and indeed ownership in the next 6 weeks, apart from all those things and thinking more of simple things like pitch quality, is it worth me looking up the fixture list for Easter Road to see if Hibs are playing at home the day before the Ramsdens final? I’m guessing not.
Hoping for a pars win tonight if for no other reason than it would stop the circus in its tracks, or at least re-focus it. Certainly it would stop CY jogging onto the celtic park turf to ask at least three different Celtic Players who they want in the next round…Its bad form to interupt them during their pre match warm up!
Joking apart – following on from the discussion last night that reached the concensus that he who held the fans ears still held the power, I have been trying to think what a cup defeat and an end to the league run would bring. Ally his jotters almost certainly, but then it would let them take in someone to unite the clans again as it were. But then, is that what they really want just now?
If RCO had never spawned / sanctioned / facilitated / implemented or whatever you’d describe how they created andsold the clubs the 5 way agreement his blue team would have hit rock bottom in receivership.
The name would have lived on and a new rangers entity would in time have been formed by a consortium of blue minded people probably with fan involvement.
They may well have bought the assets in a kind of fire sale.
It wouldn’t have taken much.
Someone like Gordon McKie would have got involved and they’d now be on the up with a business model that was fit for purpose and was not cash burning.
RCO and his cronies really screwed up.
True its not all bad.
He helped some spivs get very rich, and Lawyers and Accountants and numerous advisers in the float and merchandise catering and security contracts have been and may still be in the future lucrative for everyone. Everyone but the club itself.
RIFC has been a proverbial dripping roast for many and some low end SPFL clubs have had a wee turn in the last two years too.
Fair play to the diddy clubs.
But its just a mess Campbell, your mess, and you and Regan, Doncaster, Longmuir and the other finaglers should take full responsibility.
You have made things a damn site worse.
Scottish Football needs strong club chairmen to send the lot of you packing.
Chapeau to the Dun Utd fan consortium. It’s the way ahead. debt free clubs holding on to their home bred talent. This is a shot in the arm for the whole of the Scottish game not just Utd.
m.c.f.c says, I miss “Random thoughts” you may already know, but it’s back up & running under the guise of continuing random thoughts.
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 4:39 pm
7 5 Rate This
BBC have decided to paint a negative picture on the Celtic statement…………..profits are not as much………wow! Talk about glasses half empty half full…………….anyone would think there is an agenda to paint Scottish football as going to the wall………………….
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26089218
Celtic profits fall despite Champions League involvement
Celtic have reported a drop in profits despite qualifying for the Champions League group stage.
Half yearly figures to the end of December 2013 show a profit of £10.5m – down from £13m the previous year.
—————————————
So rather than cover the facts and include a number of positive quotations from the club under the headline, “Celtic profits boosted by player sales, figures show”, are we to understand you wanted them to cover the new post Commonwealth hover pitches and the conversion of the old school into a casino as part of the GCC funded, Celtic Park Sports Complex?
blu says:
February 7, 2014 at 2:54 pm
TSFM, I’m fully behind how you and other admins dealt with discussion of the goings on at Tynecastle last week but I think we know that Pictish was referring to this: http://www.philmacgillabhain.ie/neil-lennon-at-tynecastle/. And he’s right. Maybe it should be challenged there though.
_______________________________________________________________________
Blu,
We can’t control what other people say on their own blogs. What we can do is ensure that none of it stays on here. Phil may be a prominent blogger but he is an occasional poster here. He has his own blog and platform.
We should be able to challenge anything we are unhappy about, but I get the feeling that the unity we enjoy over the MSM would quickly evaporate if people targeted Phil for criticism. And to be fair, unlike the MSM Phil does allow dissent on his own blog – I assume – so no need to use TSFM as a means to take him to task.
A pragmatic if somewhat hypocritical solution I suppose, but one I feel is in the best interests of this blog.
TSFM
I must apologise for a couple of earlier contributions (understandably removed) I made on the blog that were not in keeping with the tone and quality you seek to maintain.
I will try to limit my commentary over the upcoming period and reflect on how I should curb such inappropriate points of view.
Every day is a learning day…….not being an accountant, I learned something new on CQN dissection of the Celtic statement – although its not news to most of you accountants, maybe there are a few thickos like me that did not understand this…..
Reason Celtic had emphasised the 16 home games compared to 19 home games from last year is because they do not count ST sales as income on receipt of the money in June/July/Aug but book as income for each home game the ST is eligible for. So instead of booking 400 quid in June, they divide the 400 by the no of games eligible (for ease say 20) and book 20 quid each home game.
I did not realise they did this – not sure if others do – but this would negate asking for Ticketus money in March aka Govan club if the income comes in like this over the season surely.
Also would explain why at a home game with 35,000, the crowd is announced as 45,000 since it is taking the ST’s in as income……..
Well I thought it was something new…… 😳
Mac Tomas says:
February 7, 2014 at 5:29 pm
m.c.f.c says, I miss “Random thoughts” you may already know, but it’s back up & running under the guise of continuing random thoughts.
=========================================================================
Mac – thanks – I didn’t know that – got some catching up to do – here’s the link for anyone else that has not seen it: .continuingrandomthoughts.wordpress.com/
TSFM – btw – did anything happen about archiving Paul’s stuff for future reference – what a lasting tribute that would be to him – sadly missed – fondly remembered.
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Every day is a learning day…….not being an accountant,
Also would explain why at a home game with 35,000, the crowd is announced as 45,000 since it is taking the ST’s in as income……..
Well I thought it was something new……===========================================================================
EC…nice post admitting to the vagaries of what is called the “revenue/cost-matching” or “accruals” basis of accounting…!
Your non-accountant’s simple straightforward explanation is most welcome!
PS…wanna job teaching my “accounts” staff?
Exiled celt
I may be misunderstanding you. The income in your example £20 per ticket is ‘booked’ with each game. To be clear the cash arrives as and when the punter pays it.
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 3:25 pm
As at 31st December 2013, net cash at bank was £5.7m. Our profit before taxation for the half year was £21.3m, an increase of over 40% on the same period last year.
There is little doubt that this is a robust set of interim results and they reflect a club that is in excellent financial health.
================================================================================
EC…many thanks for the detailed posting…such a pity that the SMSM have only second rate “churnalists” prepared to make such negative comments…!
I wish all my clients’ investments were as secure as Mr Bankier’s charge…!
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Well I thought it was something new……
===================================================================
I’m not an accountant – but have some exposure to them. I think that approach is pretty common now – at least for US corps. There are very strict rules (Sarbanes-Oxley) about how to do it after Enron abused the principle. They predicted all kinds of optimistic ventures, many years into the future and then added portions of the revenue they would earn to their current balance sheet – inflating their share price and bonuses. These days you have to “deliver” the product or service before you can claim to have earned (recognize) the revenue – even if you got full payment up front months before. I understand corporate accountants like it because it smooths out the ups and downs of getting big chunks of money every now and then that can make the business appear a bit unstable/inconsistent/seasonal.
gamesabogey says:
February 7, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Dundee Utd wipe out all of their debt;
Mac Tomas says:
February 7, 2014 at 5:29 pm
Chapeau to the Dun Utd fan consortium. It’s the way ahead. debt free clubs holding on to their home bred talent.
————————————————————————————————————
I’m not clear that the club are now debt free as all statements refer to ‘bank debt’ having been cleared.
The Thomson family have dipped into their own pockets again which is to be commended but I await to see if debt has simply been transferred to the Thomson family and the as yet unnamed investors.
It may be that the bank has taken a haircut and all the noises indicate that the deal will leave the club in a better place financially.
More announcements to come in the next couple of weeks so will wait and see as more details come out.
(It’s also being reported that United’s financial business will now be conducted with Santander rather than Lloyds)
Smugas says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Exiled celt
I may be misunderstanding you. The income in your example £20 per ticket is ‘booked’ with each game. To be clear the cash arrives as and when the punter pays it.
********
Correct – whenever the date that the punter pays it makes no difference – he could pay in instalments – it is how Celtic treat this income as earned income that is the key. Since it is not booked as income until the game – the full amount may well be sitting in an account untouched but is not “earned income” until each game arrives and progresses.
Makes sense when you think of refunds or a mid season administration – that way you know what was earned income versus a liability.
Essexbeancounter – thanks for the offer – will get back to you on that 🙂
THE Club has received many calls in recent days from fans, shareholders and other interested parties with regard to the contents of an Irish-based internet blog which has published numerous allegations about the business affairs of Rangers Football Club.
The Club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate and that the Chief Executive and Board of Directors are fully focussed on the restructuring and rebuilding of Rangers Football Club as previously announced.
The Club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club.
Graham Wallace
Chief Executive Officer
Interesting article about Aberdonians by Michael Gannon in today’s Daily Ranger.
I won’t put think link up but it is relative to some of the squirrel/discussion we’ve had this week.
Finally a response !
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/6273-club-statement
(Edit – guess the rumours article in the Scotsman has pushed them into this?)
Sevco denial to any financial problems read out on SSB as predicted by PMG
😉
m.c.f.c. says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:11 pm
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Well I thought it was something new……
===================================================================
I’m not an accountant – but have some exposure to them. I think that approach is pretty common now – at least for US corps. There are very strict rules (Sarbanes-Oxley) about how to do it after Enron abused the principle. They predicted all kinds of optimistic ventures, many years into the future and then added portions of the revenue they would earn to their current balance sheet – inflating their share price and bonuses. These days you have to “deliver” the product or service before you can claim to have earned (recognize) the revenue – even if you got full payment up front months before. I understand corporate accountants like it because it smooths out the ups and downs of getting big chunks of money every now and then that can make the business appear a bit unstable/inconsistent/seasonal.
**********
Agree – I worked at a US airline and they did the same thing – tickets could be bought months ahead but only when flew they became earned income and moved from the differing accounts.
My surprise at this is because of the Sevco saga – reading about how only 1 million is going to be sitting in the accounts come March and that the ST money was effectively gone already – surely it must have money sitting in ST unearned account waiting for the game – or has it been emptied already? Also about how Ticketus operated taking the ST money effectively and giving money up front – and then being spent on warchests!
More in hope than in jest I give you this exchange from RR.
Replies 1 and 3 are just confirmation that they are many many of them standing facing a wall having a fag, whereas Number 6 is facing the “Right way” and has just realised the “free fags” were provided by the firing squad.
Dear oh Dear.
______________________________________________________________________________________
07 Feb 2014 08:02:00
I’ve been told that it’s impossible for the fans to buy the club – buy out rules mean once you buy 30% of the shares you have to bid for the rest and pay the top share price of the last 12 months- so the other 70% would cost 90p+ a share. Anyone confirm
mullad
1.) Fans buy a club?what has happens to Dave Kings money or was that just another load to keep the fans happy or distracted for a short time
rtidie
2.) There is rules but I don’t think its as low as 30% murray had to to that when he purchased shares from marlbourgh but the supporters don’t have to buy all shres in one name it could be split into different sections but under same umberella I think
lbj d
3.) 07 Feb 2014 10:36:08
Why should we buy our own club when we should have investors like Dave king remember him
rtidie
4.) 07 Feb 2014 11:39:48
#3 Yes, the old wait and hope for for someone else to fix the problem routine that’s served us so well recently?
Naz
5.) All you bears should, just walk away from the mess and start again. It’s the only way
HH_Joe
6.) The only way the fans will ever be able to “own” the club is if the financial institutions who own Rangers decide to sell up. Now, I wouldn’t imagine they will want to sell when the share price is so low, so maybe they have other ideas. The club is sliding down a slope at an alarming rate and there are now more rumours surfacing of VAT not paid, CE getting ready to walk, not enough money to pay anything, stadium repairsupgrades costing millions and of course the asking of everyone to take a pay cut. Today the club are in court to try and defend an written agreement they had with their former commercial director to pay him 5% of all contracts he brought in, another potential £500k loss. All in all it is Armageddon all over again and still there are people on here posting about buying players as if nothing is happening. This all happened 18 months ago and heads were buried in the sand, maybe time is right to pop up and see the daylight and what is going on under your very noses. Are the financial people who own Rangers waiting for this so they can sell the assets? They are worth a lot of money to the right buyer and please don’t say that won’t be allowed to happen as the people calling the shots only care about money, not trophies and certainly not about fans.
allymac
7.) Walk away and start again Joe how do you suggest we do that? There’s no walking away from the club you love trust me.
Larky Bear
8.) Mullad – nothing is impossible but the price of the mandatory offer depends when the shares to reach 30% were aquired, it can vary between the last three months or the last twelve months
Now you may have seen me posting previously that we don’t need or even want the fans to own 100% of the club, what we need is enough fans to own shares as to have a significant voice at the AGM or EGM and even a representative on the board, remember fans already hold between 8-10%
to achieve a significant holding, we don’t need any specific group buying shares on behalf of fans,
If anyone wants to make a difference just go and buy shares whenever they can, there has never been a better time, then come the next AGM or any EGM’s, fans who hold shares and want to combine their small vote into one large block vote, could be done, or either that you just go along and vote however you want.
We could have
The Integrated Moritorium of Shareholders (maybe need a better name than that though) that abbreviation may already be in use
This would also do away with the need for a mandatory offer after 30% was reached
@2 – any organised fan group would be classed as a “concert party” under the takeover rules
@3 – that’s one of our main problems, you don’t believe any fans need to be involved in the ownership but you want someone else to own it and then tell the owners how to run the business and the club!
@5 – how much do you really wish that would happen, some of the doom mongers might but the large majority of us
Dont do walking away Joe
sannoffymesssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolis says:
February 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Mr Lunney what are you going to do about Mr McCoist’s continued undermining of the SPFL’s integrity, surely this is bringing the game into disrepute?
==============================================================================
It shouldn’t even need Lunney to decide to become involved, all it needs is for someone at the press conference to have the gumption to ask “So what are you actually driving at here, Ally? Are you suggesting that someone at the SPFL has an anti-Rangers** agenda? If you don’t think it’s Neil Doncaster, who do you think it is?”
What is wrong with asking those questions? Surely they wouldn’t be banished from Ibrox (or from their PR droppings) for allowing Ally to expand on his thinking which, by his intial mention of his pov, he obviously wants to get across.
Better Never Than Late ?
“from fans, shareholders and other interested parties” – any journalists ? maybe he meant dis-interested parties
“The Club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club” . We’ve instructed our lawyers to close down the blog immediately.and we’ll be suing him for defamation !
Statement safely after the markets close – two whole days for secret meeting etc before facing any need to inform AIM of any significant events.
06-Feb-14. 12:08:55 25.50 250,000 sell* 25.00 26.50 63.75k 0
A sale of 250,000 for an income of £63,750
I wonder if they were penny shares or perhaps given in lieu of (deferred) pay
parttimearab says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:15 pm
I’m not clear that the club are now debt free as all statements refer to ‘bank debt’ having been cleared.
——————————————————————————————————
Stephen Thomson has confirmed, in an interview with STV that the investors will require repayment (but that as they are fans they should be easier to deal with than the bank)
Someone should tell Chick Young ………It is not the magnitude of the Club
………It is the magnitude of the offence.
Strange statement from RFC,, talks about “false and damaging rumours” but no mention of taking action either against Phil or his hosting company
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/6273-club-statement
Rangers Official Statement
THE Club has received many calls in recent days from fans, shareholders and other interested parties with regard to the contents of an Irish-based internet blog which has published numerous allegations about the business affairs of Rangers Football Club.
The Club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate and that the Chief Executive and Board of Directors are fully focussed on the restructuring and rebuilding of Rangers Football Club as previously announced.
The Club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club.
Graham Wallace
Chief Executive Officer
jimlarkin says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm
Erm, what did mr wallace have to say about the V.A.T ?
=========================================================================
“these allegations are totally inaccurate” – so VAT payments are totally up to date – careful there Mr Wallace – that sounds like price sensitive information to me – hope you’ve checked your facts and checked them twice – we’ll soon find out who’s naughty and nice.
James
Not strange, desperate.
Lack of action impending just confirms it’s true. IMHO
Re Rangers statement
Quite surprised at how tame it is. Also amazed that it doesn’t state that Wallace has no intention of leaving the club.
No denial of the controlled administration plans either – which is probably the most damaging claim the “Irish” blogger made………
Cup Gate pays VAT
A guy on LSE is claiming triumphantly that tonight’s 45,000 gate (sic) will pay off the overdue VAT and see them to the end of the season – and that is a good thing – you don’t think it might be a slightly worrying sign of cash flow problems to come ? Extreme irony or extreme delusion – I can’t tell anymore
===========================================================================
Today 18:39 jonnybhoy RE: Rumour-mongering 25.75 No Opinion
the 45K tickets sold at the cash turnstiles tonight will see the vat paid and the club safe for the rest of the season
“The Club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club.”
He’s right, of course.
Almost as much damage as well-informed accurate ones would do.
jimlarkin says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:26 pm
06-Feb-14. 12:08:55 25.50 250,000 sell* 25.00 26.50 63.75k 0
A sale of 250,000 for an income of £63,750
I wonder if they were penny shares or perhaps given in lieu of (deferred) pay
====================================================================
Jim – that was delayed from yesterday – wonder what will be delayed from today – only Monday will tell.
ecobhoy says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Re Rangers statement
Quite surprised at how tame it is.
———————————-
And your surprise is shared by most posters in the bears den………… 😀
In business the trickle down effect is a well understood practice
The trickle-down effect is a marketing phenomenon that affects many consumer goods. Initially a product may be so expensive that only the wealthy can afford it. Over time, however, the price will fall until it is inexpensive enough for the general public to purchase.
This effect is just about to hit RIFC , only in reverse. This is more like the Tsunami up effect. It works this way.
Celtic have just announced another spectacular set of financials . The position of robust good health is corporate speak for ” happy as f*** ”
The opposite to this will be the feeling of Graham Wallace and the credible members of his board. Today’s financial news will just have made this worse. A lot worse.
This blog has discussed at length the options available to Wallace. What is not arguable is that Rangers , if they survive , will need a combination of cuts and cash injection . The biggest cuts are only possible via an administration , and this will bring a period of uncertainty and confusion.
This on its own delays the possibility of legitimate credible investment. The Tsunami Up effect now kicks in . Anyone , even a Rafat Rizvi type benefactor, will now understand that given Celtics incredibly strong financial position , the amount of cash needed to attempt to secure the CL money , has just skyrocketed. Celtic , even with their terrific financials , have just proved that CL income AND significant player sales profits is an absolute must if you want to turn a decent profit and generate surplus cash flow
The amount of money required by RIFC to get to the promised land of CL income is way way greater than has been speculated about previously . The Tsunami of Celtics financial success is going to engulf any attempt by Wallace to raise legitimate investment , and that’s before you consider the failure Rangers own trading and the crippling contingent liability .
Just stop and consider the probability of what is ahead and what would be required.
Celtic have very strong possibilities of repeating the financials just published for the next 2 years. CL qualification is very much within the clubs grasp. There are also players who have the same sales value as Wanyama , Hooper and Wilson. When Celtic sell Van Dyke , Forster and Matthews for example , the values will be similar if not greater than in the June 2013 window.
Although the 2nd half of the current financial year will probably show a loss of around £3.5 million , the full year should show around £18 million profit. Next year could be similar and the year after will depend on how new signings progress.
Potentially that , including this year , is a £50 million advantage over RIFC. Then if you are RIFC you have to buy a competitive team , then you have to fund the losses for this year and next. Then you have to appoint a scouting network which will deliver what John Park & co have , then you have to appoint a top class management team , then you have to pay for the repairs the stadium and training ground badly need , then you have to spend to develop the property assets bought by Green which are lying unused , then you have to get a merchandising deal which doesn’t just benefit Mike Ashley, then you have to get a catering deal which isn’t just a benefit to an unrelated 3rd party. Then and only then if you do all of that will you have even a 40% chance of success in getting to the CL and developing sellable players.
A conservative guess at the deficit , and therefore the funds required is £100 million. Given the 40% chance of getting say £15 million a seaon , lower than Celtic as history shows Celtics turnover has almost always been higher , the payback period is prohibitive.
It would take nearly 17 years to get cash return and that’s without compounding , and any beneficial effect on the share price is likely to be equally prohibitive
Given this scenario , the only likely outcome is a Spiv to Spiv ownership scenario , with more of what’s been happening since 2012.
If I was Wallace I would be actively lobbying for Celtic to get a move to England , with the hope RIFC could follow 5 years later.
As an example of what you are up against when dealing with the media …
. Reporting Scotland headline , Neil Lennon considers quitting Scottish football …. Fast forward 12 minutes or so to the interview … SMSM puppet asks Neil ‘ do you think you will consider quitting Scottish football. ‘ after some hand wringing and squirming in his seat , Neil concludes no , it has not come to that …..
And these are what could be termed the responsible elements of the media, if that is not a contradiction in terms …….. You can almost taste the hurt and pain …….
Well it hasn’t gone down well on RM with Bears thinking it weak and miffed at no legal action especially as the club has used that route against Rangers bloggers.
Add Edit
Oops didn’t see your earlier post: parttimearab says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:51 pm
The rangers statement can say anything as it refers to an ambiguous target and no specific claims by any site…
They cannot address specific speculative statements for what reason?? I think we all know the answer even if Phil is 75% correct, rangers selectively denying the rest would render some outstanding questions shirley..? Well maybe not actually, except on some blogs.
This could be a long weekend for the bears, we were never gonna see anything ’til after aim closure and nothing to interfere with tonight’s gate money to repay the board for paying the leccie bill…
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 2:45 pm
Looks like Phil’s blog is now being carried into the SMSM……………finally!
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-mccoist-lennon-rangers-mccann-1-3297963
—————-
Has this item been censored? I see no reference to Phil’s admin analysis but there is rubbish PR guff about a tribute act treble and an “old firm” cup final.
Arguing with a RFC/Sevco mate regards Phil, statements et al on Facebook
Just received text. Now texting as cant get signal as im now in the ground,
which prompted the reply
“what about Jim Traynor’s WIFI?”
😛 😛 😛 😛
I was just thinking when looking at the Celtic interim results and with a poorer 2nd half forecasted: This is what a well-run highly successful Scottish club does financially with back to back Euro group stages and very successful selling-on of players.
Can anyone actually believe that Spivs are salivating at the thought that Rangers might just might – with a helluva lot of help, SFA assistance and Sugar Daddies – manage to get to the same financial position in around 10 years? I just can’t see it.
And I think the Celtic results are brilliant given the economic circumstances but we don’t have the millstone of galactic domination hung round our necks and are prepared to live within our means. I just don’t think the Bears currently have the appetite for that level of austerity and they might never actually embrace it.
But time will tell as it always does.
justpedylan says:
February 7, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 2:45 pm
Looks like Phil’s blog is now being carried into the SMSM……………finally!
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-mccoist-lennon-rangers-mccann-1-3297963
—————-
Has this item been censored? I see no reference to Phil’s admin analysis but there is rubbish PR guff about a tribute act treble and an “old firm” cup final.
********
It has indeed been taken out…………wonder if Jack made a call or it was the RIFC statement that made them worry about having access to TRFC……….
Also note that BBC have changed their negative headline now……..
Celtic profits boosted by player sales, figures show
Player sales helped boost Celtic’s pre-tax profits from £14.9m to £21.3m, according to latest figures
Same link as before………
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26089218
Seems to be a lot of shifting of positions going on……………….interesting weekend methinks!
I’ve resisted so far: is he there or not?
justpedylan says:
February 7, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 2:45 pm
Looks like Phil’s blog is now being carried into the SMSM……………finally!
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-mccoist-lennon-rangers-mccann-1-3297963
—————-
Has this item been censored? I see no reference to Phil’s admin analysis but there is rubbish PR guff about a tribute act treble and an “old firm” cup final.
==============================
I looked earlier and couldn’t see it so I think JI has been busy. The appearance of the blog allegation on SMSM quite probably forced the official statement to be made and if the Scotsman was told it was going out they would, as a matter of course, pull the item.
It was the failure of Rangers to respond over the last couple of days which obviously decided the Scotsman to publish.
But JI knew if an official statement denying it wasn’t released then other papers would be running it tgomorrow big-style and AIM would be demanding to know what the Hell was going on and why they hadn’t been officially informed. Things are obviously right on the edge of the abyss and who knows how it will pan out over the weekend 🙄
Highly significant that the statement calls the allegations ‘inaccurate’ rather than ‘false’.
The foreseen definition of “Inaccurate” is salient here.
They are in soapy
DEFCON2
.
[twopanda wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate and that twopanda is fully focussed on the restructuring and rebuilding of these allegations in the new media.]
Well if they don’t get out the pub soon they won’t raise enough for the leccy bill never mind the VAT
“The Club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club.”
===================================
damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club
Jaysus, they claim it’s the same DEBT FREE club,
and they think they have some sort of reputation that needs protecting.
maybe one day they will learn to insert the word THE into their name.
The Club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate
would those inaccuracies be along the lines of, the blogger claimed that Mr Wallace had written a resignation letter,
the truth of the matter is that Mr Wallace wrote no such letter, it was typed and printed.
Looks like TRFC have made some cuts at last
On their grounds staff by the look of the pitch 🙂
It’ll be interesting to see what the official attendance in Govan is tonight. Judging by the TV pictures, if it’s 40,000, will that be 40,000 there or 40,000 missing?
[]
Posted earlier but it’s disappeared. Wallace has referred to an organisation that no longer exists as a football club. Keep repeating the lie …
Did I see the STV sports reporter wearing the very same tie as Mr McCoist is wearing tonight?
xiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:21 pm
4 0 Rate This
m.c.f.c. says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:11 pm
Exiled Celt says:
February 7, 2014
My surprise at this is because of the Sevco saga – reading about how only 1 million is going to be sitting in the accounts come March and that the ST money was effectively gone already – surely it must have money sitting in ST unearned account waiting for the game – or has it been emptied already? Also about how Ticketus operated taking the ST money effectively and giving money up front – and then being spent on warchests!
================================
The money from ST’s will have been well used by now. Although it doesn’t show as income for the period in question that doesn’t mean they don’t have access to it and they can spend it if they wish (hence the need for Ticketus in days gone by). In fact there would be nothing stopping them showing it as income but they would then have to make allowances for this in the debit column by accruing the estimated costs of providing this service. The downside of doing this is that when your projected costs are greater than the additional income you have introduced you cannot hide this fact.
ecobhoy says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:59 pm
2 0 Rate This
Well it hasn’t gone down well on RM with Bears thinking it weak and miffed at no legal action especially as the club has used that route against Rangers bloggers.
Add Edit
Oops didn’t see your earlier post: parttimearab says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:51 pm
—————————————————–
Well a visit to the bears den does tend to scramble the senses somewhat. 😆
Barcabhoy says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:52 pm
A conservative guess at the deficit , and therefore the funds required is £100 million. Given the 40% chance of getting say £15 million a seaon , lower than Celtic as history shows Celtics turnover has almost always been higher , the payback period is prohibitive.
It would take nearly 17 years to get cash return and that’s without compounding , and any beneficial effect on the share price is likely to be equally prohibitive
=============================================================================
Barca…sterling stuff…and the real reason why Mr G Wallace returned from the City of London with his begging bowl quite, quite empty.
Do I see qualified accounts being lodged at Companies House, at any future determinable date, let alone by the 28 February…? Slimshady61…£1 (not CW’s £1) for your thoughts…?
m.c.f.c. says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:46 pm
“A guy on LSE is claiming triumphantly that tonight’s 45,000 gate (sic) will pay off the overdue VAT and see them to the end of the season …………. ”
++++++++++++++++
Watching a bit of the game on TV and at times the camera has shown different parts of the stadium. I would guess around 25,000 there tonight. Remember, it is a cup game so the gate is shared.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
February 7, 2014 at 7:57 pm
The Specials sang Ghost town
==================================
NTHM,
Apologies, you are completely correct, it was The Specials – a senior moment there from me 😳
I don’t know why, but when I think about rangers, Madness and Ghost Town just seem to fit perfectly
p.s. didn’t Madness do some sort of Ghost song? I’m getting old!
Do I see qualified accounts being lodged at Companies House, at any future determinable date, let alone by the 28 February…? Slimshady61…£1 (not CW’s £1) for your thoughts…?
======================================================================
…or should I ask that nice Mr Patey?
How Does This Sound?
Alan Archibald DEMANDS to know who those people are!
Alan Archibald upset that FIr Park not chosen and has choice words for Doncaster!
Archibald admits it will take five years to compete with Celtic!
My Favorite –
Thistle will soon be back challenging Celtic WHERE THEY BELONG!!!
Does not have the same ring…and yous better no be chucklin!
“…an Irish-based internet blog…The Club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate…”
============
Wallace is very specific about the source – and yet very vague about what he is attempting to refute.
Looks like we might be getting our teeth into some new information soon… 😉
Oh, and it might be a good idea for Internet Bampots to buy Valentine’s Cards & pressies this weekend.
…well you might be a little bit distracted in the run up to next Friday…mibbees…
I’ve succumbed and still none the wiser. The pitch looks worse then Fir park used to be and whit no ball boys?
Cuts?
Hi Pictish,
Re your reply to my early morning post. The point I was trying to make, (probably not very well executed) was not really anything to do with fan behaviour and how it is represented in the press. I was trying to point out that in my opinion McCoist can get away with a lot more than other managers from the press, especially Lennon. Who some MSM hacks ignorantly think he can provoke some of the mindless attention he has had to endure.
It would be a great shame if the solidarity built up between fans from all clubs regards the omnishambles could be wasted by the actions of a few morons. I have a ticket for tomorrow’s game and I hope the “hale clamjamfry” have a harmonious entertaining afternoon.
Cheers
fergussingstheblues says:
February 7, 2014 at 7:55 pm
It’ll be interesting to see what the official attendance in Govan is tonight. Judging by the TV pictures, if it’s 40,000, will that be 40,000 there or 40,000 missing?
A bit like the Celtic-Thistle game at New Year. Official attendance about 30-odd thousand more than the real one…. Radio Scotland reckoned 20K-ish just before KO tonight.
Since there are plenty Celtic fans on here, can any of them explain to me why their club sells a very limited number of tickets to away fans at a stadium with vast gaps in it? Aberdeen only got 1000 for their last League visit (they took 2000 to Firhill) and Thistle only had 850 which sold out with other fans unable to go (unless they went incognito into the home section, which some did). Scottish fitba isn’t dead, but Celtic don’t really seem to be helping much in improving it’s health. Can I ask anyone if they know why their club follows this policy when there is obviously space for many more fans to go to the games?
thistleCA says:
February 7, 2014 at 8:11 pm
How Does This Sound?…..
Thistle will soon be back challenging Celtic WHERE THEY BELONG!!!.
Does not have the same ring…and yous better no be chucklin!
======================================================
Scottish Football needs a strong Partick Thistle, one of Glasgow’s big two football clubs.
Smugas says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Exiled celt
I may be misunderstanding you. The income in your example £20 per ticket is ‘booked’ with each game. To be clear the cash arrives as and when the punter pays it.
________________________________________________________________
Cash sometimes arrives before the punter pays through Ticketus type arrangements !!
ergussingstheblues says:
February 7, 2014 at 8:07 pm
p.s. didn’t Madness do some sort of Ghost song? I’m getting ol
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Madness sang One Step Beyond (the grave)
Slimshady, I do understand the frustration of Celtic fans over the Nevin thing, it is reasonable to assume the BBC we’re got at by the Ibrox PR machine and Nevin may have been naive, but let’s be fair. Nevin has said he could no longer take his kids to Celtic Park because of elements of the support were engaging in sing-songs that were unsavoury, to say the least. Is it inconceivable that Pat heard those unsavoury ditties on his approach to the stadium? That Nevin heard those songs coming from Celtic fans on cup final day in Glasgow is a copper bottomed certainty, (I know I have countless times) so when asked about it he gave an unequivocal condemnation, to withdraw the condemnation or start back peddling would have left hi open to ridicule from all sides. I get the point about songs erroneously labelled ‘sectarian’, and no doubt JI muddied the water there to assist his agenda, but the song list in and around the stadium may have contained more than TFOA!
Dare I suggest the Celtic fans are engaging in a bit of whataboutery here? Perhaps we should all move on from this and the vendetta should be called off!
ianagain says:
February 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm
James
Not strange, desperate.
Lack of action impending just confirms it’s true. IMHO
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A very weak press release but good to see the tables have turned and Cack Girvan is losing control of the media waves. The hunt for the mole should be easy enough to solve though. From what I can see from watching the ritual slaughter of the Pars U-20’s it appears to be under the Ibrokes pitch
Quick word on the TRFC statement:
‘Inaccurate rumours’; not ‘unfounded rumours’, or any such similar response.
Inaccurate could refer to timing, amount (high or low), anything in fact. But there are a myriad of words to use to make it clear these rumours are without substance (see, there’s another one). I think it has been established for some time that PMGB’s postings aren’t always accurate, but their thrust is usually spot on.