The Immortality Project

Posted on 04/09/2013 by Humble Pie

The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie

Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.

My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.

Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.

Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).

It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.

At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.

In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.

In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.

That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.

Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.

Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.

Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.

‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.

In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?

“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.

“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.

There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’

The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.

Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.

Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.

A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.

I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.

Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.

Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.

I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.

Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.

We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.

So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.

How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.

By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.

Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”

Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”

I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.

I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.

RIP Big Man.

3,959 thoughts on “The Immortality Project”

ernie on 05/09/2013 at 15:46 said:

First of all thanks for starting a new thread. Us Dons fans are well used to pre season predictions of success and happy days that vanish after 4 league games and it’s good to see that headline sink out of sight.
Did anyone notice the Manchester United Supporter’s Trust story about them achieving an “asset of Community Value” order on old Trafford following in the steps of Oxford United and Stevenage apparently? (The story is covered in this month’s When Saturday Comes.)
It basically means that if the owners want to sell the ground a six month moratorium is applied and the “community”, in this case the trust, have the right to submit a bid. Not much really but it is a constraint and means that the ownership can’t be sold or transferred around to a bunch of spivs without the trust knowing for example, the trust is well and truly in the loop and ownership is in the ken of the public. Strikes me that those who follow the old and new Rangers might be better doing this with Ibrox rather than blaming it all on a big boy who done it and ran away. It would be a start anyway.
redlichtie on 05/09/2013 at 15:47 said:

schottie59 says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:10 am
Was reminded today of what defines a football supporter….a friend of mine from Deverondale FC wrote this of his friend at Buckie Thistle FC…..a dear old friend today. Joe Jappy was 92 years old and had enjoyed a lifetime’s association with his beloved Buckie Thistle FC.
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What an absolute privilege to hear of such great servants to Scottish football as Joe.

What a terrible contrast we have from the authorities and spivs dipping their snouts in the trough at the so-called ‘top levels’.

Scottish football should do more to recognise the efforts of the Joe Jappy’s of this world. RIP.
Exiledcelt on 05/09/2013 at 16:15 said:

Just to clarify – what board are these folks fighting about joining?

RIFC – the one that has all the money from the IPO and is a different entity from the “club”.

TRFC – the one that has no money (see RIFC) and is the entity that has the SPL/SFA membership

So when the SMSM talk about them joining the board of the “club” which one is it? If its the former, can SFA/SPL do anything about it? Does the rules only apply to TRFC? Honest question…..

Wonder if our old pal Chris Graham can tell us – or is he still “waiting to see how it all pans out”?

Methinks the confusion is deliberate on the spivs part……….
AllyJambo on 05/09/2013 at 16:17 said:

Exiledcelt says:

September 5, 2013 at 3:22 pm

Good post EC, but might I suggest you remove your relatives name from the post (if not too late) for his sake? It might otherwise lead to unmerited problems for him.
Gym Trainer on 05/09/2013 at 16:20 said:

I am Spencicus too.
schottie59 on 05/09/2013 at 16:22 said:

redlichtie says:
September 5, 2013 at 3:47 pm
9 0 Rate This

schottie59 says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:10 am
Was reminded today of what defines a football supporter….a friend of mine from Deverondale FC wrote this of his friend at Buckie Thistle FC…..a dear old friend today. Joe Jappy was 92 years old and had enjoyed a lifetime’s association with his beloved Buckie Thistle FC.
==================================================

What an absolute privilege to hear of such great servants to Scottish football as Joe.

What a terrible contrast we have from the authorities and spivs dipping their snouts in the trough at the so-called ‘top levels’.

Scottish football should do more to recognise the efforts of the Joe Jappy’s of this world. RIP.
………………………..
I will pass on your thoughts ….
did you watch the Loons v another fc in the cup ……Scottish football HAS a strong Forfar 😛
neepheid on 05/09/2013 at 16:26 said:

Exiledcelt says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm
0 0 Rate This

Just to clarify – what board are these folks fighting about joining?

RIFC – the one that has all the money from the IPO and is a different entity from the “club”.

TRFC – the one that has no money (see RIFC) and is the entity that has the SPL/SFA membership
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They are fighting about RIFC- that’s where the money and the power reside. They really couldn’t care less about TRFC, now that the ST money is in for another season. This is all about money. The TRFC directors just do what RIFC, as 100% shareholders, tell them to do.
ecobhoy on 05/09/2013 at 16:27 said:

jockybhoy says:
September 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm

. . . Izzy is getting busted for letting someone else drive his car?

Celtic left-back Emilio Izaguirre, left, is to stand trial after being accused of allowing a fellow Honduran to drive his car without insurance. Izaguirre, 27, pled not guilty by letter to allowing former Hibs footballer Jorge Claros to drive the car in Edinburgh. He is due to stand trial at Edinburgh Justice of the Peace Court on October 3. Surely Claros should be the one getting busted?
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I would assume that Claros will face a separate charge of driving without insurance. I suspect he may also face further charges.

It is the responsibility of any driver who allows another person to drive their vehicle to ensure that they are insured to do so. I am not commenting on the specific charges but in general when I say that often family or friends allow someone to drive their car without checking whether they are insured to do so.

What follows is police involvement usually following an accident or some other moving traffic offence and the issue of insurance is checked. There are many ways that a driver might not be covered by insurance even though the owner has unrestricted insurance for the car.

If the driver was given permission to drive the vehicle and wasn’t under age or banned or otherwise legally prevented from driving and had comprehensive cover on his own vehicle he would have limited RTA/3rd party cover while driving a friend’s car with permission. It would appear that limited cover didn’t apply in this case.

However, after the police have realised there is an insurance problem then the vehicle owner has a dilemma and has to either deny he gave permission in which case his friend faces a taking away without permission charge or the current wording whatever it is. If the owner confirms he gave permission and there is no valid insurance then the owner faces the charge of allowing his friend to drive without it as they had a duty to check.

Driving without insurance can leave many shattered lives in its wake when parents end up dead leaving penniless children behind or even people are badly injured they are never able to work again. And often the driver involved gets off with a tiny fine.

I have no sympathy for any driver who drives without insurance or who allows another to get behind the wheel with no valid insurance.
Exiledcelt on 05/09/2013 at 16:30 said:

AJ – good point – thanks – done!

(Edited) Just to clarify in case of any doubt – I have never spoken for many years to the relative who played for RFC in 1972 so have no idea what colour knight he supports – if any. It was to illustrate the RFC ties my family have only.
ForresDee on 05/09/2013 at 16:31 said:

Quick comment on the Gunning three match ban, as much as it cheers me to see any arab done for any reason, I can’t help but think he was chased down, not as a pro Celtic move but, as an anti-Utd move. It’s funny how some at parochial TV stations can almost start a campaign for punishment over this but refuse to chase a manager that claim over 100 footballers are betting on football against the rules!
AllyJambo on 05/09/2013 at 16:33 said:

Exiledcelt says:

September 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm

Not only is there a lack of clarity in this, but it also lends weight (as if added weight was necessary) to the argument that they are a new club; or at least it blows the LNS idea of a club being some imaginary entity detached from the company, and therefor the board, clean out of the murky Sevco water. It would appear, that even in the minds of those who would support the ‘same club’ argument, RIFC plc, is the club, and TRFC Ltd, is the club… so much so, that they can’t, even after all the efforts to convince the world of their ‘same club’ argument, differentiate between the three! We could start calling them ‘The Three Musketeers, ‘All for one, and one for all’… but that would be such a great insult to Alexandre Dumas and his wonderful novel, and they could never be worthy of that.
ecobhoy on 05/09/2013 at 16:39 said:

neepheid says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Exiledcelt says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm

Just to clarify – what board are these folks fighting about joining?
RIFC – the one that has all the money from the IPO and is a different entity from the “club”.
TRFC – the one that has no money (see RIFC) and is the entity that has the SPL/SFA membership
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They are fighting about RIFC- that’s where the money and the power reside. They really couldn’t care less about TRFC, now that the ST money is in for another season. This is all about money. The TRFC directors just do what RIFC, as 100% shareholders, tell them to do.
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I am not so sure that RIFC are 100% shareholders of TRFC. We have not known what the shareholding is in TRFC since last December when the TRFC shares were swapped on a 1-for-1 basis with those of RIFC.

It would appear to me that there could be no shareholding in TRFC but we have not had paperwork filed with Companies House following the swop which should have been done within 30 days of it. The Annual Retun for TRFC which should have been filed in June is still overdue and again Companies House do nothing. TRFC did the same in May 2012 when it changed the shareholding but didn’t notify it until December last year.

Interestingly the Annual Return of Sevco 5088 Ltd is also overdue.
neepheid on 05/09/2013 at 16:49 said:

Ecobhoy-I agree that without the TRFC overdue annual return to Companies House there can be no certainty as to its ownership. But since the share issue and accompanying prospectus were on the basis of TRFC being a wholly owned subsidiary of RIFC, then AIM should be taking a close interest if it turns out that there are minority interests in TRFC of which the RIFC shareholders have not been informed.

From memory, I believe that the interim accounts to 31/12 were also on the basis that TRFC was 100% owned by RIFC? Can’t check right now, I’m away from a proper computer.
MoreCelticParanoia on 05/09/2013 at 16:51 said:

alexander276 says:
September 5, 2013 at 2:35 pm
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Check the statistics in relation to players booked for leaving the field of play after scoring a goal and compare against your allegation that Celtic are immune to SPFL/SPL/SFA inaction. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the many SFA charges brought against Celtic players and officials in recent years. The Scott mcDonald/Lee Wilkie one was a particularly strange incident in that the player was booked but the SFA apparently threw out their “you can’t revisit yellow cards” part of the rulebook at a time which just happened to coincide with the very close title run-in with Rangers in 2008/9. He “escaped a ban” to use media parlance but Glenn Loovens, who got hauled up at the same time, didn’t.

I remember Darren O’Dea receiving a second yellow card at pittodrie for kicking the ball away after a foul. Steven McLean of Aberdeen did the same thing in the same game, as well as a good impression of man winning the EuroMillions jackpot, high fiving and throwing tenners to half the crowd after scoring and the referee took no action for either act.

You are viewing things through a particular hue, the very thing you accuse others of. You seem to think that being a fan of a club outwith the dreaded OF automatically gives your claims some sort of superior morality or credibility. Well you may be shocked to find that actually it does not. Certainly no more than any “paranoid” Celtic fan. The tired “try walking in my shoes” line works both ways believe it or not
Exiledcelt on 05/09/2013 at 17:23 said:

alexander276 says:

September 5, 2013 at 2:35 pm

But I admit to following a more northern tradition that saw both components of the Old Firm (RIP) as two cheeks of the same erse.( I am afraid my fellow fans are a course bunch).

*************

I hope though that the last year has erased some of that – its similar to pre-Armegedon view I and many other Celtic supporters had that your second team would be RFC.

Thankfully this site and RTC along with others nowadays has helped us all see that this is nonsense. Celtic and RFC/TRFC are completely separate – and all other clubs are also separate from Celtic/RFC/TRFC – there is no more Old Firm thankfully. We all stand on our own two feet and are not in one camp or the other. We all have our own views and not be lumped in with another when unconnected as used to happen with both Old and New Firm nonsense.

Its too easy for whataboutery from all parties – thing is we are where we are now and need to work together on getting out of the mire we are in.

This is how I see the situation now – that I was wrong in my youth for thinking that all non CFC fans who supported a non Peepil team had them as a second team – and hopefully you all now know its wrong to say we are cheeks of the same erse – this is probably the one good thing that has come out of all of this.
ecobhoy on 05/09/2013 at 17:23 said:

neepheid says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:49 pm

Ecobhoy-I agree that without the TRFC overdue annual return to Companies House there can be no certainty as to its ownership. But since the share issue and accompanying prospectus were on the basis of TRFC being a wholly owned subsidiary of RIFC, then AIM should be taking a close interest if it turns out that there are minority interests in TRFC of which the RIFC shareholders have not been informed.

From memory, I believe that the interim accounts to 31/12 were also on the basis that TRFC was 100% owned by RIFC? Can’t check right now, I’m away from a proper computer.
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I agree that there are many statements such as you say but in view of many other statements in the Rangers AIM prospectus and which have come from directors and shareholders I’m afraid I take everything with a large pinch of salt from a very long spoon 🙄

But what’s the problem in providing the Annual Return for TRFCL? Other issues apply such as Rangers Retail where TRFC and, by extension RIFC, is said to have a controlling interest in that TRFCL has 51 shares and SportsDirect has 49 shares. But the SportsDirect shares double to 98 shares on any vote involving financial matters. I would say therefore they actually control the company.

Green is still a director of RangersRetail and Garrion Security Services and I ask myself why. But when are the Bears going to ask?

And Green of course is still a director on Sevco 5088 which also has Whyte and Earley as directors The other day we have had posts alluding to the fact that there might have been a recent sale of Ed House and the Albion carpark by TRFCL to another company.

I have no info myself on that but there seems to be a whole other level of company connections going on and it really is time that Companies House forced TRFCL to identify its shareholders.
alexander276 on 05/09/2013 at 17:28 said:

Looking with your partisan perspective you think your team has a hard time. With mine I think we get short end of the stick. If you want to collect the evidence and list the Old Firm (of non blessed memory) players who have been subject to media witchhunt I would be interested? You might conclude that the lack of examples is because they only signed angels: personally I come to another conclusion
.
I am not sure on reflection that this is bias it is that football newspaper staff (Journalist seems inappropriate) need a stream of big team stories to prolong their careers: they cannot afford to be seen as unsympathetic. My version of bias has nothing to do with bigotry, religion or national identity. It is simply folk filling back pages as easily as they can with servile dross. Can we not get rid of this ‘hard place’ to come to’, ‘always has the team well organised’,’ real professionals’, ‘short of match fitness’, ‘time for a break to rest the squad’… kind of exchange that masquerades as journalism. It is embarrassing groupie worship. When in the world of the puerile is a manager due the sack? About 30 seconds after they are sacked.

And while we are at it the nostrum that we would be better with business or financial journalists is fanciful. They did a great job before the Recession… They too recycle the narratives of the powerful.
BayviewGold on 05/09/2013 at 17:36 said:

Exiledcelt says:
September 5, 2013 at 5:33 pm

it’s a spoof account 🙂 unfortunately
ecobhoy on 05/09/2013 at 17:38 said:

I think Murray’s statement has outflanked Mather’s PR drivel statement to AIM.

It was obviously a crude move that has gone disastrously wrong IMO as I think most Bears would agree with the fact that shareholders should have the right to pass a vote of confidence or not in the existing Board at a General Meeting and not as part of a cozy deal dreamt-up it would appear by Mather which looks suspiciously like an attempt to save his own skin.

I am a bit confused over Mather’s shareholding in RIFC and wonder if anyone can assist. It all began with press reports of him investing £1 million in the original consortium and a further £1 million invested by his Nottingham business partner Guy Gisborne.

But slowly the reports changed and Gisborne’s name disappeared and it was said Mather had invested £2 million. Although that has swung back to reports he invested £1 million. Coupled with that some claim that £1 million was a loan and that has been repaid back.

CF carried a piece about Mather’s shareholding detailing the 1p shares and those at £1 I think and I wonder if anyone could post that info to me – PM would be fine if they don’t want to post it publicly.
Exiledcelt on 05/09/2013 at 17:39 said:

Damn!! Just got the popcorn ready lol! Wonder if Chris Graham blew a gaskit?l

(edit) I requested TSFM to remove original posting of the tweet so others as stupid as me also may not realize its a joke – thanks Bayview!
🙂 Well – a joke for now anyway!
ecobhoy on 05/09/2013 at 17:54 said:

alexander276 says:
September 5, 2013 at 5:28 pm

And while we are at it the nostrum that we would be better with business or financial journalists is fanciful. They did a great job before the Recession… They too recycle the narratives of the powerful.
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I have often posted on here that this story was left to footie hacks despite it being one of the biggest financial and legal stories to hit Scotland in recent years. It allows the sports guys if questioned on the dross they have served up on legal and financial issues to say: ‘Och I don’t understand all this stuff’. So why are they writing about it?

In a sense financial and business journos – and there are probably only a handful left – have the same kind of self-serving interest in keeping their ‘client’ groups happy at the expense of their readers just like footie hacks with clubs. But the financial guys wouldn’t be able to squirm off the hook with the excuse of ‘not understanding’.

A reasonable news reporter could have tackled the job and there might be 15 or 20 of them left in Scotland. They would have exposed everything the bampots and clatterers have and more. But the editorial line has always been to leave it with dense footie pundits so as not to rock the boat too much.

Remember that there were warnings before the recession but they were ignored in the bubble of remortgaging and equity release to spend on fripperies such as holidays and cars and even worse off-plan buying of houses in exotic locations like Dubai.

We have been ill-served by our media industry in Scotland and as newspapers die then journos are scrabbling to get a job in Holyrood or become lobbyists or heaven forbid even crisis PR consultants 🙄

But it means that now is not the time for them to stick their head above the foetid water in the goldfish bowl of Scotland.
Matty Roth on 05/09/2013 at 18:09 said:

Delbhoy says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:22 pm
33 0 Rate This

I see a photo in the papers today of a billboard proclaiming, ” Scotlands most successful club “.
Its an argument so easy to refute its embarrassing. Every one of us has come across an Ibrox afficionado who clams up at the slightest hint of dissent.
I think we should post on here, on a regular basis, the list of creditors shafted by Rangers. And a list of directors involved in the theft.
As has been pointed out, these are not matters of opinion, only fact.

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I think this is a pretty simple but effective idea.

How about a blog post which is simple a full list of all creditors for future reference – with comments/discussion disabled.

And perhaps another with a full list of all the key parties and their involvement from SDM through to Charlie Greenback?

Or instead perhaps have one blog post set up for “Reference Information” on which only TSFM can comment and he/she can post up relevant reference info / lists / useful timelines for posterity??
scottc on 05/09/2013 at 18:26 said:

Allyjambo says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:33 pm

We could start calling them ‘The Three Musketeers, ‘All for one, and one for all’… but that would be such a great insult to Alexandre Dumas and his wonderful novel, and they could never be worthy of that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Given the relationship between the three ‘entities’ and the somewhat ‘late’ nature of the club, how about Father, Son and Unholy Ghost?
dukinfisgusted on 05/09/2013 at 18:35 said:

Former Hearts defender Marius Zaliukas joins Rangers on trial
Thu, 5 Sep 2013 11:48:00 BST

Can you believe it !! A genuine trialist.
jimlarkin on 05/09/2013 at 18:37 said:

Chris graham and his sheep are revolting about jim spence and are complaining to the bbc!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-22951447

Did they not read the bbc findings properly?

In Scotland – scots law cannot separate rangers football club from rangers football club plc.
(Rangers football club are being liquidated…out of business…no longer exist)

The rangers (formerly Sevco) now operate out of ibrox.
The Rangers FC are a completely separate entity from Rangers FC.
This is proved by the fact that The Rangers (formerly Sevco) do not have to pay the £millions of pounds of debt which led to the liquidation and death of Rangers FC.

Chris graham…if it is the same club – why is the debts not being paid ‘back’ ???
arabest1 on 05/09/2013 at 18:39 said:

MoreCelticParanoia says:
September 5, 2013 at 2:06 pm
25 0 Rate This

arabest1 says:
September 4, 2013 at 4:31 pm

andypandimonium says:
September 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm
9 0 Rate This

Good to hear that Mr Lunny is alive and at least has a pulse. He has today charged daft Gavin Gunning with the heinous crime of aiming a petulant wee kick at a Celtic player on Saturday. An advocate of the devil may be minded to observe that a 3 match ban for such an offence is a tad draconian when so many on field assaults are allowed to go unpunished or by the brandishing of yellow; but if Mr Lunny is about to bring the same level of scrutiny and punishment to the rest of the contents of his inbox, the Govan gangsters should be in for some interesting reading in the days and weeks ahead.
————————————————————————————————————————————-

Re Gunning I have little sympathy for him in this instance, he really should know better with his experience

————————————————————

I agree the player’s reaction was petulant and unwise but also that greater misdemeanours regularly go unpunished. In the 80s it’s the kind of thing where the ref would just tell the boy not to be so bl00dy stupid and get on with the game. The modern game combined with modern PC fascism has everyone making a UN emergency out of every minor confrontation leading to a circular tit for tat arms race of pettiness

I also can’t help but feel this will be categorised as a “pro-Celtic” decision to be filed away and retrieved by the media to provide “balance” the next time a Sevconian gets away Scot free with an onfield transgression, regardless of the fact this course of action benefits Celtic in no way whatsoever and only serves to penalise Dundee Utd for a future fixture
———————————————————————————————

But Celtic have no history of rivalry with Sevco….they have never played! It is Dundee United who are the big bad wolf for Sevco. 😎 They even boycott our games……..they are in quite a tiz over Jim Spence and Steven Thompson appears to be responsible for everything that ails em! Luv it!
shooie 1967 on 05/09/2013 at 18:44 said:

What happened when the bampots threatened to withdraw their support. The way to change has been established. The baw is at our feet sad but the way forward is by threats to the clubs season tickets. 😥
MoreCelticParanoia on 05/09/2013 at 19:10 said:

alexander276 says:
September 5, 2013 at 5:28 pm
6 1 Rate This

Looking with your partisan perspective you think your team has a hard time. With mine I think we get short end of the stick. If you want to collect the evidence and list the Old Firm (of non blessed memory) players who have been subject to media witchhunt I would be interested? You might conclude that the lack of examples is because they only signed angels: personally I come to another conclusion
————————————————————————————-

There isn’t a lack of examples.

Scott McDonald, Glenn Loovens – the only players in the whole of the SPL to be cited for for ‘violent conduct’ for the whole of season 2008/9 at the behest of a concerted media campaign, the Daily Record at the forefront, in McDonald’s case to challenge a yellow card decision which was hitherto understood to be taboo according to the SFA, but was justified on the basis that “the referee Dougal didn’t get a clear view”. So why did he award a yellow card then??

Aiden McGeady, Bobo Balde, Kelvin Wilson. That’s just from memory

I can only conclude that your comments emanate from someone who hasn’t actually paid any attention to the facts around your assertion and just have an assumed “they’re all against us and pro-OF” mindset which makes you as paranoid as any fan I’ve met.

Incidentally, Neil Lennon has been charged more than all other SPL players and managers put together or at least it seems like it for comments or actions that are nothing out of the ordinary in Scotland.

Jim Jeffries had an aneurysm, launching a mental rant to the media publically demanding an apology from a referee for a goal correctly disallowed for offside – then didn’t even have the decency to apologise himself, muttering something about how rude the official in question was when faced with Mr Angry’s polite enquiries about the matter. Funnily enough the game was against Celtic.

Peter Houston accused Dougie McDonald of entering a “conspiracy” to award a penalty against his team. The infamous Dougie Dougie change of mind against Celtic.

Mixu Paatelainain accused referees of being unwilling to give Kilmarnock penalties. If Celtic fans are “paranoid” then I don’t know what the notion that SFA referees have entered a nationwide conspiracy to cheat Kilmarnock is..

Walter Smith made public comments on referee performance every time his team didn’t win and often when they did, including infamously highlighting the Irish surname of a linesman. He’s also been known to enter the field of play to berate opponents (Connor Salmon), other managers (Paatelainean) and phyiscally manhandle officials (in aforementioned incident with Paatelainain), kick inanimate objects and to pull the odd scowly face, although reading Scottish newspapers you would never believe it.

Ally McCoist – who are these people/ we want clarification / I have 100 names and am waving them around like Kruschev at the UN etc etc etc

Charles Green – SFA are cheats

Just a few examples. None of the above were ever called to explain their remarks, other than Green who was “cleared”. Note – he didn’t “escape ban” as in the case of McDonald or Balde or any other Celtic player who win their case

I’m not saying this to promote the idea of an anti – Celtic conspiracy but to challenge your lazy assumption
manandboy on 05/09/2013 at 19:13 said:

shooie 1967 says:
September 5, 2013 at 6:44 pm
0 0 Rate This

What happened when the bampots threatened to withdraw their support. The way to change has been established. The baw is at our feet sad but the way forward is by threats to the clubs season tickets.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Shooie,
May I take the liberty of suggesting that there are two baws, one you mention above, at the feet of club supporters

The other is at the feet of the Tartan Army.

But so far, they don’t appear to be up for the fight against the SFA.

Or am I completely missing something?
StevieBC on 05/09/2013 at 19:23 said:

Extracted from RM, [won’t post link]
===========================
Whilst I can’t vouch for its authenticity, the replies indicated that others received the exact same email.

“Dear Mr x

Thank you for your contact. Your comments were passed to the Editor of Sport, who has asked that we forward his response as follows:

“Thank you for your correspondence. I have reviewed the contents of the Sportsound programme of Wednesday 4 September and the particular phrase to which you draw attention.

The actual words used by Jim Spence were: “John McClelland who was the chairman of the old club, some people will tell you the club, well, the club that died, possibly coming back in terms of the new chairman.” The phrase was used in the context of a live discussion about the proposed additions to the Rangers’ board and about former chairman John McClelland and former director Paul Murray joining the board.

Jim Spence did not state that the club had died but, in the context of a discussion about former board members joining the club, commented that there are some people who hold this particular view.

I do agree that the attributed comment could have been better phrased within the live piece and I am sorry if you were offended by this.

Thank you for your comments.”

Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.

Details of the BBC complaints process are available online at http://www.bbc.co.uk…ts/handle.shtml

Kind Regards

BBC Complaints”
============

[edit] Can’t access to validate but apparently ;

From RM: “That part, [the ‘offending sentence’], has now been completely wiped from the playback feature on the BBC Scotland site.”
MoreCelticParanoia on 05/09/2013 at 19:26 said:

arabest1 says:
September 5, 2013 at 6:39 pm
10 0 Rate This

But Celtic have no history of rivalry with Sevco….they have never played! It is Dundee United who are the big bad wolf for Sevco. 😎 They even boycott our games……..they are in quite a tiz over Jim Spence and Steven Thompson appears to be responsible for everything that ails em! Luv it!

——————————————————————————-

Touche ! 🙂
Auldheid on 05/09/2013 at 19:28 said:

Humble PIe

I took part in and then became a member of a team of folk helping others to get through the grief process and the parallel you draw is spot on. We had a technical term for what happened to folk on the grief journey “they got stuck” at one of the stages is how we called it.

In terms of the role the SFA have played for commercial reasons to keep the idea that Rangers did not die alive (ideas dont die they get passed on but never away) I am going to copy over three exchanges from CQN that cover it. (note its 3 years membership of national association not accounting history btw ) 😉

The first was in response to the lead CQN blog on production of accounts.

Paul67

Companies House are not the only one’s waiting to get an idea of The Rangers financial situation. The SFA of course should have an interest in terms of granting even a Basic Level Licence.

Notwithstanding SPFL will have to replace SPL since they were published, the following rules are what clubs below the top tier are supposed to comply with under National Club Licensing 2013.

Criteria
8.11
Annual Financial Statements
Refers to the audited annual
financial statements prepared
according to the Companies Act
1985 and relevant accounting
standards (UK Generally
Accepted Accounting Practice).

ENTRY LEVEL Requirement
Regardless of the club’s legal
status, the club shall be
required to provide a copy of its
annual financial statements which
have been approved by the club
members at a General Meeting.

The statements shall refer to the
year ended 2012.
Clubs will provide this
information as follows –
SPL clubs – by 31 March 2013
All other clubs – by 30 April 2013

Comment You can see the difficulty the SFA must be having with this but there is more

Criteria
8.12
Financial Information
Clubs are required to provide a
summary of financial information
drawn from the Audited Accounts
submitted at 8.1.1.
=====> Clubs should be aware that this
information will be made freely
available via The Scottish FA web site. <=======

Comment. Has anyone seen any details yet? Wonder why the delay?

All LEVELS (Gold down to Entry)
A club is required to submit a summary of financial information covering the reporting year for 2012 and the
previous two years i.e. 2011 and 2010 as detailed below.
Clubs will provide this information as follows –
SPL clubs – by 31 March 2013
All other clubs – by 30 April 2013
Unless the 2010 & 2011 figures have not previously been provided the club only requires to provide the 2012 figures.

Period Ended 2010 2011 2012
Turnover £ £ £
Wages (Total Payroll Costs) £ £ £
Wages to Turnover Ratio % % %
Profit or Loss for Period £ £ £
Net Assets at Period End £ £ £
Net Debt at Period End

Comment This is to give an indication of whether a club is living within its means or not

Notes (or Get out Clauses)

” In submitting this information, the club must give consideration to a relevant reporting perimeter i.e. the entity or combination of entities in respect of which financial information has to be provided. In particular the financial information must include all remuneration paid to any employees including players and any costs/proceeds of acquiring or selling a player.

The reporting perimeter shall also include any entities included in the legal group structure which generate revenues or perform services for the club in respect of ticketing; sponsorship and advertising; broadcasting; merchandising and hospitality; club operations; financing; use of stadium and youth operations.

In practical terms group accounts are not required. However financial information in respect of all individual entities within the above reporting perimeter must be provided.

Exceptional dispensation may be granted by the Licensing Committee in certain cases where a club is unable to provide historical financial information . <===== Clubs will be required to submit written reasons for such an exceptional request. Not wishing to disclose the information willnot be considered a valid application for an exceptional request however”

Comment. The intent to publish and dispensation clauses are new since last year. The first to protect the SFA by saying this is what we were told and its not our job to check. This as a result of failing to check previous porkies told by at least one former member club requiring a 5 way agreement that failed to say stop telling porkies to us (the SFA).

I appreciate that publishing the rules only serves to annoy us because of the failure to apply them, but it is important that we all know just where the SFA are failing our game and in club licensing they are doing so big time.

I will post the replies next.
Auldheid on 05/09/2013 at 19:31 said:

Humble Pie

To which I got the following

Auldheid.. Would UEFA not be interested in these rules if the obligations are not met?

Auldheid – did they not get away with it this year on the basis that Companies House didn’t require accounts until after the SFA date and therefore they had none.

Auldheid – I must admit my energies have largely had to be directed at non Celtic, non Football issues this last few years and I have very much been coming to CQN and to Celtic in fact as a form of release from other stuff…. so forgive me for not having paid enough attention to the licensing thing. I’ve read some of your stuff but it takes more digesting than I have been able to commit to.

However, this has caught my eye. Are you saying that in changing rules to guard against the types of errors and sins committed by OldCo the SFA have actually made it even more possible for them to issue licenses to clubs who are living out with their means?

We all had hope when Platini introduced the Fair Play stuff, but £600 Million spent in England, £85 million spent on Bale and the ongoing bloating of players wages in richer leagues tells me UEFA won’t be giving a sh1te any time soon about the Pontious Pilate clause in the SFA’s rules.

I’ve been struck for a long time at the similarities between the Banking crisis and the Rangers one. In one case the Government, egged on by the banks cheer leaders and free marketeers, the incestuous corporate world and all it’s cronyism forced two governments to implement measures which were effectively state aid for ailing financial institutions at the tax payers expense (indeed at the expense of the NHS and the Welfare system) – while the SFA (read Government) were pressured (in the way you pressure an open door to get through it) did what they could to prop up and save a dying institution at the people’s expense. In both cases the idiocy continues and the recovery as a result is delayed if not stopped all together.

It would lead one to despair but far better it leads us to fight.

And we must not ignore the fact that Scotland does not operate in total isolation. We have often hoped in the past that HMRC, BDO, UEFA, English football people – anyone from outside Scotland would be the catalyst for change here, would tell the adminstrators of the game here to cease and desist. But we were wrong to do so. When these people meet in board rooms and in executive boxes at big games they are meeting like minded people looking out for their own patch, their own influence, their own kind. There is no knight in shining armour about to bring honesty and integrity to the game – here or elsewhere. Money talks, money rules and money corrupts.

I fear the game may actually have to die a little in order to be truly reborn. I fear it will take genuine financial implosion across the european game before we see any ‘return’ (if we were ever there in the first place) to fair play, fair competition and real sporting endevour and merit being rewarded rather than financial muscle and TV money ruling everything about Association Football.

Rant over…….

and my reply is next
Auldheid on 05/09/2013 at 19:33 said:

desertbhoy
weeminger
Robert Tressell.(CQNers)

Robert Tressel has just about summed it up. There are common sense rules in place to protect people from themselves over time, but those with the kind of short sight that only sees the dollar opportunity under their nose cgaf at any level. Having writ the rules the moving finger of UEFA moves on.

What is perhaps Rangers bad luck is that UEFA finally got around to articulating in 2010 a set of rules to protect football from itself and they are now being judged against them because, although the articulation came in 2010, common sense has been around for as long as man has had the time to experience the consequences of ignoring it.

The SFA have ridden rough shod over Articles 50, 66 and 67 of UEFA FFP in granting the 2011 licence simply to keep Rangers going. Karma in Malmo and Maribor strips took care of that. They have twisted player eligibility/ registration dependency out of its original shape with the bizarre Bryson ruling. They have failed to make any statement on the idea of club and holding company since it was invented for commercial reasons after the club called Rangers was liquidated. Now on this the SFA must know that in the recent years that Rangers applied for a UEFA licence, but specifically in 2011 (because it is in UEFA FFP 2010) that Rangers either complied with

Article 43

Article 43 – Declaration in respect of participation in UEFA club competitions

1 The licence applicant must submit a legally valid declaration confirming the following:
a) It recognises as legally binding the statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and, if any, the national league as well as the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne as provided in the relevant articles of the UEFA Statutes;
b) At national level it will play in competitions recognised and endorsed by the UEFA member association (e.g. national championship, national cup);
c) At international level it will participate in competitions recognised by UEFA or FIFA (to avoid any doubt, this provision does not relate to friendly matches);
d) It will promptly inform the licensor about any significant change, event or condition of major economic importance;
e) It will abide by and observe the club licensing regulations of the UEFA member association;
f) It will abide by and observe the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations;
g) All submitted documents are complete and correct;
h) It authorises the competent national club licensing administration and national club licensing bodies, the UEFA administration, the Club Financial Control Panel and the UEFA Organs for the Administration of Justice to examine any relevant document and seek information from any relevant public authority or private body in accordance with national law;
i) It acknowledges that UEFA reserves the right to execute compliance audits at national level in accordance with Article 71.
2 The declaration must be executed by an authorised signatory of the licence applicant no more than three months prior to the deadline for its submission to the licensor.

or

Article 45

Article 45 – Written contract with a football company
1 If the licence applicant is a football company as defined in Article 12(1b), it must provide a written contract of assignment with a registered member.
2 The contract must stipulate the following, as a minimum:
a) The football company must comply with the applicable statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and its affiliated league.
b) The football company must not further assign its right to participate in a competition at national or international level.
c) The right of this football company to participate in such a competition ceases to apply if the assigning club’s membership of the association ceases.
d) If the football company is put into bankruptcy or enters liquidation, the right to apply for a licence to enter an international and/or national competition reverts to the registered member. For the sake of clarity, should the licence have already been granted to the football company, then it cannot be transferred from the football company to the registered member; only the
right to apply for a licence the following season reverts to the registered member.
e) The UEFA member association must be reserved the right to approve the name under which the football company participates in the national competitions.
f) The football company must, at the request of the competent national arbitration tribunal or CAS, provide views, information, and documents on matters regarding the football company’s participation in the national and/or international competition.

3 The contract of assignment and any amendment to it must be approved by the UEFA member association and/or its affiliated league.

The former (43) is one a CLUB agree to certain conditions of entry and if Rangers signed such a declaration and SFA approved then neither thought of Rangers as anything but a single entity club.

The latter (45) is where a company do similar.

Thus if the former the CLUB went into liquidation and if the latter then the company did (although UEFA treat both the same) So what Article did Rangers sign up to in 2011? Was it as a club (where a specific template with club written all over it was produced in UEFA FFP 2012)or were they operating as a company and complied with Art 45.

We all know the answer, just as we know the three year exile is because they failed to meet Article 12 of UEFA FFP requiring 3 year smembership of a national association (NOT 3 years accounts)but the SFA have never clarified when asked.

And that, and the 5 way agreement and everything that has happened since (there being no degree of unfitness for running Rangers) has all been designed to keep the money they bring into the Scottish football industry in the Scottish football industry.

I have no problem with that as long as it is recognised that just a a scorpiom must sting so the new Rangers must cheat and the opportunities for them to do so must be reduced to a minimum. Hence my thoughts at

http://celticunderground.net/sfa-reform-one-down-three-to-go/

from June 2011.

It is almost a matter of despair that it has got worse rather than better. I did send that Article to Peter Lawwell at the time, maybe I should send a reminder.

My rant over 🙂
Auldheid on 05/09/2013 at 19:45 said:

For the avoidance of doubt re Article 43, the following is from the SFA web site

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/Part4:AnnexUEFA/UEFA%20Part%204%20-%206%20Annex%20UEFA%20Legal%20Sign-off.pdf .

There is no way of telling if the same declaration template was there in 2011 but the Article to which the 2013 version refers (Art 43) certainly was.

and it says

CLUB DECLARATION – UEFA LICENSING
UEFA ARTICLE 43
Name of Club (“Club”)
For and on behalf of the Club, I hereby certify that:-
a) The Club recognises as legally binding the statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the Scottish FA as well as the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne as provided in the relevant articles of the UEFA Statutes;
b) The Club will play at national level in competitions recognised and endorsed by the Scottish FA. NB. This provision does not relate to friendly matches;
c) The Club will play at international level in competitions recognised by UEFA or FIFA. NB. This provision does not relate to friendly matches;
d) The Club will promptly inform the Scottish FA about any significant change, event or condition of major economic importance;
e) The Club will abide by and observe the Scottish FA Club Licensing Manual;
f) The Club will abide by and observe the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations;
g) The Club confirms that all submitted documents are complete and correct;
h) The Club authorises the Licensing Administration, the Licensing Committee and the Appellate Tribunal of the Scottish FA, as well as UEFA to examine any relevant document and seek information from any relevant public authority or private body in accordance with UK law;
i) The Club acknowledges that UEFA reserves the right to execute compliance audits at national level in accordance with Article 71 of the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations
On
At
By
(Authorised Signatory of the Club)
helpmaboab on 05/09/2013 at 19:49 said:

Re the cleansing of sevco: the WATP mentality will never leave them when they have managers uttering the words,the letters WATP on bus registration plates,flags,banners and in house proclamations of their self assured superiority.
From Wikipedia:”If a person is a show-off it is only because she or he feels inferior, because she or he does not feel strong enough to compete with others on the useful side of life. That is why she or he stays on the useless side. She or he is not in harmony with society. It seems to be a trait of human nature that when individuals – both children and adults – feel weak, they want to solve the problems of life in such a way as to obtain personal superiority without any admixture of social interest. A superiority complex is a second phase. It is a compensation for the inferiority [feeling] complex.”[3]
“The superiority complex is one of the ways that a person with an inferiority complex may use as a method of escape from her or his difficulties. She or he assumes that she or he is superior when she or he is not, and this false success compensates her or him for the state of inferiority which she or he cannot bear.
Zilch on 05/09/2013 at 19:56 said:

Humble Pie

Just wanted to thank you for your beautiful contribution to the blog.

The Dr King quote was particularly resonant.

For me Football is a sport, a game, possibly an addiction, but mostly harmless. Yes I know it is a professional sport and big money is involved. But for me, as a punter, I really only care about the game.

In that context, the game has to be pure. It has to have integrity. It has to be protected, as far as is possible, from the corruption of capitalism. There are many businessmen who provide great service to the sport, e.g. Turnbull Hutton, but for every one of them I greatly fear there is a queue of shysters trying to earn a quick buck at the expense of you and me.

Dr King spoke of a great human tragedy. It could be argued that our wee sport cannot be considered on anything like the same level.

Obviously true.

And yet.

What does it say about a person’s nature when they are prepared to cheat at sport?

What does it say about a person’s nature when they are prepared to act in the manner that those running the show at Ibrox have done this last – well how long really?

What does it say about a person’s nature when they have been entrusted with the role of protecting and nurturing a sport, and they behave in the manner that the SFA, SPL etc have done this last – how long??

Sport has the ability to transcend base human nature and lift us to higher levels of human endeavour. It has a beauty that can be wonderful to behold, but is oh so fragile.

Why are we bampots so obsessed with this issue? Perhaps it is because the corruption of our sport by those in positions of power and authority has brought into sharp focus an ugly cancer, a putrid wound on something that should be pure and untarnished.

We are here, not because it is safe, politic or popular, but because it is right. You nailed it.

Final thought from me. The Joe Jappy story put a lump in my throat.

We all remember the guys that spent hours and hours of their lives taking our teams when we were kids, and who look after our kids now, helping them to develop not just as footballers, but as decent human beings too. The example they set has a massive impact IMO.

The stinking corruption at the SFA dishonours every one of them.

Scottish Football needs more Joe Jappy’s. (RL copyright acknowledged)
upthehoops on 05/09/2013 at 20:22 said:

MoreCelticParanoia says:
September 5, 2013 at 7:10 pm
=============================
I was going to write much the same but you saved me the trouble. As you have shown it is absurd in the extreme to suggest the SFA’s sometimes punitive measures don’t head the way of Celtic. I must admit the whole debate regarding last week’s Dundee Utd v Celtic game is fast becoming ridiculous. People need to get real. Gavin Gunning fell foul of the SFA because he kicked out stupidly, and like many others was pulled up for it. At the winning free kick there is no clear cut evidence of a dive by Stokes other than an opponent saying he did, which Stokes refutes – one word against another. The real laugh though is the claim Stokes moved the ball back ‘yards’. TV evidence shows it was 12 to 15 inches at most – indeed the ball was moved to where the offence happened.

I must also agree with an earlier poster on the view that supporters of smaller clubs automatically assume the moral high ground, yet their teams contain at least as many hackers, cheats and con-men as any other team.
selfassessor on 05/09/2013 at 20:45 said:

I’m selfassessorticus.
theoldshed on 05/09/2013 at 20:56 said:

iceman63 says:
September 4, 2013 at 11:44 pm
138 5 Rate This

With every passing day the delusional become more convinced of their divergent reality. Expect either a further and deeper descent into lunacy – we have already travelled further than even I an arch believer in human gullibility could have ever imagined – or a brutal and violent awakening to the truth by the deluded.

—————————————————

The fact that 50% of US citizens believe that the world is less than 5000 years old and there is no such thing as evolution should tell us all we need to know about the human race’s capacity for delusion. The MSM/SFA have a willing and gullible mass audience in the peepil. The choice as I see it (at the risk of sounding like a cracked record) is to walk away from Scottish football completely or refuse to acknowledge The Rangers by never attending their games until the truth about the old club is admitted by officialdom – which sadly I don’t think will happen.
selfassessor on 05/09/2013 at 20:58 said:

Haven’t been able to post for a while but have been reading with real interest through thick, thin and troll.

When I’ve been able to catch my breath (respite from the side splitting laughter from the Sevco gift that keeps on giving) one of the things that has really got my dander up has been the pie muncher’s deflection tactics in defence of the alleged rule breaking better at the tribute act. Have I missed cheeky chappie “Piesty” being censured by the SFA for his comments or asked to show his information to Mr Lunny for further investigation?
justshatered on 05/09/2013 at 21:01 said:

What a great article.
I’ve watched for over a year now as the prospective owner, ex-players, and media first told the world that rejection of the CVA was the end of the club.
Was this tale pedalled because they were so confident, via JI spin, that a CVA would be accepted.
When the CVA was rejected all of the above declared the club dead until the reality of what they were saying hit home; NO OLD FIRM to create stories one against the other, tit for tat infinitum. Some people might actually have to do their job.
I still believe when that reality set in there was real panic in every paper in Scotland. Somewhere, I’m convinced, a meeting took place with or without JI where the ‘holding Company’ nonsense was suggested, digested, and agreed.
The problem for them was websites like this and others dissecting and analysing their tripe.
Simple basic question sprang to mind like “If the club never died why was there a need for a five way agreement involving two separate clubs (RFC and Sevco)?”
“Why was the club not allowed to play until this agreement was in place if it had survived liquidation as claimed?”

Like most people here I know RFC now ‘The Rangers’ fans and I’m always amazed the way they NEVER analyse any aspect of this nonsense but simply tow the party line regurgitating spin drivel after spin drivel. They cannot grasp that an inability to pay your way will destroy their new club quicker than the old one because there is now no bank willing to pour cash into this enterprise with a business model as bad as this.
torrejohnbhoy on 05/09/2013 at 21:07 said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1m

Quite a 24 hours for me. Now Dundee United inform me that BBC and me are not allowed any interviews……
jimlarkin on 05/09/2013 at 21:25 said:

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:07 pm
0 0 Rate This

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1m

Quite a 24 hours for me. Now Dundee United inform me that BBC and me are not allowed any interviews……

==================================

why?
are dd utd now sticking up for Sevco and the fact that the hordes were upset you stated the actual fact…that rangers are deid ?
borussiabeefburg on 05/09/2013 at 21:35 said:

Guessing: I think Dundee United might be fed up of the analysis of their recent matches from both BBC and STV experts, and the highlighting of selected incidents. This has probably been the final straw, as I recall a wee campaign at the start of the season to vilify Calum Butcher.
Exiledcelt on 05/09/2013 at 21:51 said:

jimlarkin says:

September 5, 2013 at 9:25 pm
orrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:07 pm
Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1m
Quite a 24 hours for me. Now Dundee United inform me that BBC and me are not allowed any interviews……
==================================
why?
are dd utd now sticking up for Sevco and the fact that the hordes were upset you stated the actual fact…that rangers are deid ?

********************

JL – You fell into a Sevco trap there – not everything is to do with their new club! 😆
arabest1 on 05/09/2013 at 21:55 said:

jimlarkin says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:25 pm
5 1 Rate This

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:07 pm
0 0 Rate This

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1m

Quite a 24 hours for me. Now Dundee United inform me that BBC and me are not allowed any interviews……

==================================

why?
are dd utd now sticking up for Sevco and the fact that the hordes were upset you stated the actual fact…that rangers are deid
————————————————————-

I doubt it jim! More to do with the Gunning thing, IMO strategic error on the part of United but siege mentalities can be effective……ask Sevco………or Celtic 😉
Nawlite on 05/09/2013 at 22:23 said:

Good post, HP. Does no harm to reiterate what we all know. Shouldn’t it be titled ‘The immorality project’ though?
Danish Pastry on 05/09/2013 at 22:23 said:

Disgraceful trolls having a go at Jim Spence on twitter. The kind who have no shame about the wrongdoing or debt. All someone else’s fault, obviously. The lunatics have taken over their blue asylum. They are doomed to be forever Sevco. Will anyone mourn if they demise again?
fara1968 on 05/09/2013 at 22:29 said:

Jim Spence is receiving some really awful tweets. If ever there was someone who doesn’t deserve that sort of crap. I truly despair.
fara1968 on 05/09/2013 at 22:49 said:

I think this is what all the fuss is about. Some very angry people out there if this is all it takes to enrage them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV2TgQiQ4bE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Matty Roth on 05/09/2013 at 22:55 said:

upthehoops says:
September 5, 2013 at 8:22 pm
15 10 Rate This

MoreCelticParanoia says:
September 5, 2013 at 7:10 pm

=====================================================================

The assertion that all fans of smaller clubs take the moral high ground is of course exactly the sort of sweeping nonsense that you would both pounce on if the shoe was on the other foot.

All fans of Scottish clubs are not against Celtic so please enough already with the whataboutery and silly indignant stuff.
Matty Roth on 05/09/2013 at 23:00 said:

The treatment if Spencie is exactly the sort of nasty, blinkered rubbish we all predicted but why is there so little support for the guy from his employers and colleagues?

Its really pitiful.
fergusslayedtheblues on 05/09/2013 at 23:04 said:

Very good piece Humble Pie
I must admit to being astounded as to how many Sevco fans were taken in by the utter same club nonsense .
Talk about denial ,really did take it to a new level and as you say ,if only they would accept the fact they are a new club then they could have moved on .
Sadly though their are plenty of peepil still willing to perpetuate the myth for one agenda or another and in their desperation many Sevco fans are being entranced with the peepils spell .
Shame really as for a short time at least their was a chance for a better outcome .
Tif Finn on 05/09/2013 at 23:41 said:

It has been said many times here, but I think it is worth saying again.

Rangers can be a new club if they want, in which case they have one SFL division 3 title to their name and nothing else.

They can be the same club if they want, with all of the records and all of the history, both good and bad. They can have all of the titles and all of the trophies, but also all of the debt they accrued in “winning” them.

What they can’t have, in my opinion, is both. They really can’t be the same club when they want to be, but also a new club when they want to be. That is simply unacceptable.

I am more than happy for them to pick which one it is, I am not happy for them to have the best of both World’s. Shafting tens of millions of pounds from creditors and walking away, but then claiming to be the same legal entity.

That is just wrong.
fergussingstheblues on 06/09/2013 at 00:34 said:

Apologies, I know I said I was walking away! Unfortunately, you can take the boy out of Paisley, but you can’t take Paisley out of the boy! Still a lurker!

Thanks Humble Pie. You’ve put across, very articulated, everything I’ve been trying to say in my uncouth manner for the last few weeks.

The SFA is currently a Cancer in Scottish Football. They have had numerous chances over the last 2 years to nip this in the bud. Instead, they have been complicit in the biggest cock up ever seen in Scottish Football.

However, I sense a wind of change in recent days. At last people are beginning to question the SFA here in an organised way, instead of the normal personal rants from the likes of myself! Brilliant!

The old RFC has definately gone, and it’s time that was confirmed publicly, by whatever media.

Gretna 2008 are not Gretna, Airdrionians are not Airdrionians nor Clydebank, Sevco are not Rangers. Putting a “The” in front of “Rangers” does not make them the same club.

The old RFC died a rather embarrassing financial death. Rather than being given a dignified funeral, some really sharp vultures have moved in to the old house as squatters and have started to strip the old house bare!

All of course under the watchful eye of The SFA! Aye right!

As for Spencey, good on you mate! Keep up the good work. I’ll be a Sparticus as well!
Resin_lab_dog on 06/09/2013 at 01:16 said:

Fantastic piece HP.
I think I can supply something of the missing element in the whole deid/alive debate.
Your description of grief is utterly familiar. Its a healthy cathartic process.
Part of the reason for this is the closure of the book brought about by the finality of death.
The living are in a position to answer back, to act and to take the consequences of their actions. And they can and should be held account for these actions. Whereas the dead are at peace. They have no retort. They have no right of reply.
Excepting truly evil individuals, this means that – by and large- their sins die with them. We don’t crow over those who smoked, or drank, or drugged, or even ate themselves to death after the event, however much pain they caused to themselves and others while they were doing it.
Who among us has not looked back fondly on someone who has made our lives a living hell?
The dead are to be looked upon kindly and left in peace, and not tarnished unduly. Sombre reflection on mortality and re-evaluation of what is really important, and maybe a quick dusting off of the ‘things to do before I die’ list are the appropriate responses of intelligent humans to bereavement once the shock is past.

All the bad stuff goes. Only good memories remain.

The problem here is that, in this case, the lifeless corpse that has caused so much pain to itself and those around it in the past (Rangers fan = beaten wife) seems to have suddenly got up off the slab, and is lurching back to the tobacconaist/off licence/drug dealer/pie shop intent on damaging itself and others as much as it did in the past having learned nothing nor shown any remorse along the way.
The Dundee United fans got this right.
Respect for the dead does not and should not extend to zombies. For this is what the toxic new-incarnation of sevco rangers are: Ugly, parasitic, and cheating death, by defying universally applied laws. In these circumstances, I can understand why the usual deference, respect and sympathy that many at the ibrox club feel they should be afforded is far from forthcoming.
I sincerely mean no harm or disrespect to Rangers fans in this. I feel your pain. You are victims – and you are not alone in that.
But if what had emerged from the tomb after the death of your club had come clothed in white (rather than merely Green and Whyte) and turned over a new leaf, I think we could have all moved on and got past the self inflicted damage of the past.
We could have said nice things to you about your dear departed ‘father’ incarnation as a statesmanlike son took over the family business, running things differently. You could have probably kept the sign over the door, for Auld lang syne.
But that isn’t what has happened.
We have Frankenstein’s monster instead.
And you belong dead!
davythelotion on 06/09/2013 at 06:58 said:

Resin_lab_dog says:
September 6, 2013 at 1:16 am
We have Frankenstein’s monster instead.
And you belong dead!
£££££££
The thing about the creature was that in the end, it was the spark of humanity within that caused it to recognise and ultimately detest it’s own existence. This then caused it to turn on it’s creator.
‘igor, Fly the kite!!!!’
upthehoops on 06/09/2013 at 07:00 said:

Matty Roth says:
September 5, 2013 at 10:55 pm
20 5 Rate This

All fans of Scottish clubs are not against Celtic so please enough already with the whataboutery and silly indignant stuff.
==============================
Of course they’re not, but there are a significant number who apply what is IMO a very lazy assertion that Celtic and Rangers are both sides of the same coin. I think history shows that is definitely not the case, but people will see what they want to see. It also doesn’t help when we get totally inaccurate posts on here that Celtic players don’t get tried under video evidence. People need to do some research before they come away with this stuff.
Danish Pastry on 06/09/2013 at 07:31 said:

Funny tweet from Richard Gordon to Jim Spence last night:

@RichardGordon48
“@bbcjimspence Go to bed Spencey, you’ll need a good night’s sleep before you decide who to piss off tomorrow… 🙂 #banned
11:59pm – 5 Sep 13”

Humour is not dead … unlike certain football clubs.
JLeeHooker on 06/09/2013 at 07:48 said:

Matty Roth says:
September 5, 2013 at 11:00 pm

The treatment if Spencie is exactly the sort of nasty, blinkered rubbish we all predicted but why is there so little support for the guy from his employers and colleagues?

Its really pitiful
_____________________________________________________________________________________

The fact that the BBC apologised for his statement is, for me, a travesty and a shame
Matty Roth on 06/09/2013 at 08:16 said:

upthehoops says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:00 am
13 6 Rate This

Matty Roth says:
September 5, 2013 at 10:55 pm
20 5 Rate This

All fans of Scottish clubs are not against Celtic so please enough already with the whataboutery and silly indignant stuff.
==============================
Of course they’re not, but there are a significant number who apply what is IMO a very lazy assertion that Celtic and Rangers are both sides of the same coin. I think history shows that is definitely not the case, but people will see what they want to see. It also doesn’t help when we get totally inaccurate posts on here that Celtic players don’t get tried under video evidence. People need to do some research before they come away with this stuff.

===============================

And that’s fair enough upthehoops and of course I’d expect people stating what you describe as “lazy assertions” to be pulled up on it but the same has to work both ways.

But IMO its tiresome and unhelpful when people trot out long lists of “evidence” why their club is worse treated than anyone else. This is often accompanied with the implication everyone else should pipe down and stop complaining – everyone is entitled to express an opinion.

We’ve seen it happen before on the blog with silly debates about who gets the worst treatment from referees etc etc. Worst of all is when some of these posts display a hint of self righteous arrogance towards fans of other clubs.

I think this site is an excellent forum for fans of all clubs to come together and exchange opinions and debate. It would be a shame for that to be reduced by people struggling to leave the chip-on-the-shoulder stuff at the door on the “way in”.

My earlier post wasn’t a dig at you personally so hopefully you didn’t see it that way.
Angus1983 on 06/09/2013 at 08:54 said:

Resin_lab_dog says:
September 6, 2013 at 1:16 am

Who among us has not looked back fondly on someone who has made our lives a living hell?
——

Well, me for a start. Such people get filed away on my “grave-dancing” list.
andypandimonium on 06/09/2013 at 08:59 said:

The treatment of Jim Spence by the deluded twitterati is repugnant but hardly surprising. They don’t do truth or irony. Describing Spencey as “the most biased journalist in Scotland” goes beyond irony and made me laugh out loud.

The fact that Dundee United FC has banned Jim from carrying out his work at Tannadice is far more concerning to me. As a United season ticket holder I shall be making my feelings known to the Chairman as it is an outrageous decision which may play well in certain circles but is completely at odds with the United philosophy. I hope that Stuart Cosgrove and Richard Gordon pick up on this and give Stephen Thompson both barrels………he deserves it. 😮
AllyJambo on 06/09/2013 at 09:27 said:

In a similar vein to the post re Joe Jappy of Deveronvale FC, I’ve just watched a piece on Sky Sports about Paul Scholes playing in a charity fund raiser for Stalybridge Celtic, a club a 15 – 60 minute drive (depending on traffic 🙁 ) from where I now live. They are a non-league club with a tidy wee ground, and are a big part of the local community with under-age sides in all age groups, and this is why Scholes was making his appearance in the game – his son plays for the under 14 team. They hope to raise £50,000 and set up an online auction for anyone wanting to play alongside Scholesy. They cancelled the auction when the bidding reached £70,000 because they’d only hoped to raise around £400 and didn’t want to be greedy!

As with the Joe Jappy story, integrity , and morals, are alive in football, along with hard work and dedication. All it takes is the right people!
Smugas on 06/09/2013 at 09:32 said:

First of all on spencey, I hope he gets the support he deserves. I fear not.

On the club thing…..yet again.

There are two levels at play as was established on here long ago. Is the wee kid in the top and the RFC schoolbag supporting the same thing as before? In the absence of any will whatsoever to tell him/her otherwise then yes, I suppose he/she is. Its the whole ethereal (must check what that actually means) 11 men in blue cloudy thing yet again. Issues over branding, trademarks, phoenix trading etc aside I don’t actually see the harm in that.

BUT, as soon as you are talking about the legal entity, the thing that is registered, subject to rules 😀 , pays bills, has a board (more on that in a separate post) etc etc then you, literally, cannot make this stuff up! Spencey was talking about members elected to a board. Were they supposed to sit at desks floating in the clouds?

Nonsense. Utter, utter nonsense. And the failure of the authorities to nip this in the bud right at the start is what has led to one of the few decent fitba guys being unfairly pressured this morning.
Smugas on 06/09/2013 at 09:42 said:

On the board RIFC/TRFC stuff, following up on Eco, Auldheid and others.

I’ve always wondered how the spivs were going to ride off into the sunset without the mob on their tails. The answer of course would appear to be in the TRFC shareholding. If they can keep that a mystery until they cash out (from RIFC) they will leave as the good guys having sold a ‘restored’ RFC (ie TRFC) back to the Rangersness blazers. Thinking it through they can actually throw in Ibrox too if they want to save them the hassle of the refurbishments. What will the blue knights mk 3 do if they are ‘offered’ Ibrox for anything less than the £100m the bears have been told it is worth. Say no, no, we don’t want it? No chance. Meanwhile the spivs quietly tuck away MP, the car park/offices and continue to provide services through related companies until the cows come home to be milked again, and again. There would be room in that for Whitey and Ticketus as well if its done right (and CG doesn’t get too greedy).

Obviously that leaves TRFC still leaking cash left right and centre but heh, its only money.
Danish Pastry on 06/09/2013 at 10:29 said:

Smugas says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:42 am

On the board RIFC/TRFC stuff, following up on Eco, Auldheid and others.

I’ve always wondered how the spivs were going to ride off into the sunset without the mob on their tails …
——————————

I don’t rank among the experts above, but it occurs to me that the persecution of the likes of Jim Spence and the general revisionism that has allowed them to deny club and company were ever joined as one is playing right into the hands of those who say they now own the assets, players, stadium, shares, facilities, you name it – but who only run the ‘club’ they say they ‘saved out of liquidation’. The fans are apparently now only interested in what happens on the field – and a field somewhere is all they might end up with.
briggsbhoy on 06/09/2013 at 10:38 said:

If we are all honest we know why the SFA and the SPL/SFL as it was never came out directly with it’s a new club message. As Mr Spence has found out recently if you dare mention it your are attacked by morons verbally and I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up physical. You only need to look at the recent history of an unsavoury element within the support of both clubs (had to get that in there and I mean Oldco/Newco) to recognise it.
What Jim Spence needs is some support from the team of the USS Enterprise, in fact maybe we all need there support. Dr MacCoy at 24 seconds sums it up best 😆
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0yXqU-w9U0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0yXqU-w9U0
Smugas on 06/09/2013 at 10:42 said:

DP

My point exactly. The spivs have two options as I see it.

Apply their floating charge for monies provided to TRFC and hold Ibrox hostage – cue the type of media hyped backlash that makes spencey’s look like a minor tiff – can you imagine the pitch of Chick Youngs voice? and how CG’s french address would be mistakenly leaked, I mean who are these people ya de ya?

or option two – very very publicly be the good guys offering TRFC including Ibrox (by releasing it from the floating charge) back to the rangersness for a once in a lifetime not to be missed opportunity cost of X (and for X in the papers read 2X behind the scenes) so they have their team (losing money) and their park (needing lots of money) but it’s theirs, for keepsies. Everything else will be fair game. Of course it’ll need a PR guy to spin it. Any ideas?

Really, where I’m coming from this morning is wondering what can the McColls of this world do to put a spanner in plan B, without hurting the existing TRFC on the park? McColl, you would think would be keen to force the spivs down the plan A route and just let what happens (most likely through CG’s letterbox) happen…
paulsatim on 06/09/2013 at 10:44 said:

JLeeHooker says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:48 am

The fact that the BBC apologised for his statement is, for me, a travesty and a shame
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Havent seen or heard about this apology. If true then nothing short of shameful bowing to the hiding of the truth.
Bawsman on 06/09/2013 at 10:48 said:

Interesting posts on the Rangers share site, some clarity offered: 😎

Read from the bottom thread up the way.

Share Discussion for Rangers Int (RFC)Date/TimeAuthorSubjectShare Price†OpinionToday 10:15Monty67RE: lets get real not angry.53.00Strong Sell

Grannysnuff, you miss the point completely. There is a Gretna playing in the junior league. It still has Gretna in the badge & it most probably supported by the same people who followed the Gretna who powered through the leagues. They liquidated due to overspending and running out of money. That is exactly what happened with old Rangers, however else you want to dress it up. What is the difference? The difference is the number of fans. Realistically, The Rangers should be plying their trade in the Juniors as the club / company went bust. Due to the number of paying customers The rangers would bring, it was deemed the financial aspect would supercede any sporting integrity issues and the SFL clubs were asked if they would vote this new club into their league. The SFL clubs saw the cash cow and agreed wholeheartedly, but only in Div 3. The football authorities have never confirmed or denied the ‘continuation’ of the club as then UEFA will get involved. The old club liquidated through 20+ years of overspending. That is the sad reality of life. The impact initially had a negative impact on the game in Scotland and affected every club in Scotland. There is a real risk that the lessons have not been learned and this new club are heading the same way as the old. Thats why I keep my eye on what is going on. The sooner you guys change your attitude and start to take responsibility, the sooner us ‘obsessives’ will stop commenting on the business side and start the banter on the playing side, as should be the case.

Today 09:53GrannySnuffRE: lets get real not angry.53.00No Opinion
Monty: You are so wrong. If the Rangers saga showed one thing, it showed that the a club is totally different to the company behind it. It showed that the company is there soley as a vehicle to facilitate the running of the club. Companies can be changed, or even replaced. That’s why nobody cares that Manchester United are registered in the Bahamas. If the company mattered then they would care. It obviously irks you but sorry to say Rangers live on.Today

09:40tcup2012RE: lets get real not angry.53.00No Opinion
Correct PW the concept of TRFC being the same as RFC and having a continuing history is utter nonsense

Today 09:22Monty67RE: lets get real not angry.53.00Strong Sell
The assets were bought from the dead club, not the business. You can’t buy the business, leave the debt behind and carry on as per normal. Charles Green was fully aware of that hence all the blurb before the CVA was rejected. All this talk about transferring memberships is nonsence. It required transferring due to an insolvency event, not a re-branding exercise. It also transferred to a new entity. The football authorities in Scotland have royally screwed up by breaching their own rules to ensure a team in blue, playing at Ibrox, was fast tracked into a league they don’t deserve to be in. That was purely for financial reasons. Unfortunately, this tribute act is as much rangers as the fat Singer in a white suit you used to see at Butlins in Bognor Regis was the real Elvis.

Today 08:25price_watcherRE: lets get real not angry.52.50No Opinion
What utter nonsense, have you forgotten to take your medication this morning?

Today 08:24wellwhadyaknowRE: mikeboy.52.50Hold
Hi all, first post after months of reading everyone else’ before and since joining the forum. Of everything that has been posted, good, bad and ugly, I have never been compelled to post anything until now…purely based on the fact that this is a forum for those investing /considering investing / or with a genuine interest in investing in share ownership. However, this post by kiltrochan really amazes me…….and I am sure it does the same for anybody interested in investment in shares……..How can any shareholder not be aware / not understand that if the company they hold shares in (I am talking company not club etc but company) is liquidated …goes out of business due to massive debts ….then the shares have zero value other than sentimental? Surely if you are posting on here, participating in financial debate and giving thoughts on a company you should at least have some understanding of what you are talking about viz a viz your investment …. gifted, purchased or otherwise obtained. Your 80k shares are worthless and you have absolutely no leverage in the new business, out-with the collective strength of being a supporter and using that for driving change the greater good of the club
paulsatim on 06/09/2013 at 10:54 said:

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 9m
Rough Figures. Sentanta Sports contract with SPL £140m, Sky/ESPN replacement deal approx £65m, Shortfall to SPL of approx £75m.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 5m
Despite initial SPL claim being restricted to £75m, they were allowed to bump this up to approx £110m later on. So whilst the final dividend

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 5m
may only have been 2p in the £, it seems that the SPL increase has left less in the pot for other creditors, those who may have suffered a

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 4m
full loss. SPL claimed £110m from Deloitte, in addition to having secured £65m from BSkyB/ESPN = £175m in value. Is this legal?
Smugas on 06/09/2013 at 11:01 said:

paulsatim says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:54 am

For SPL read HMRC, surely?

Edit – Apologies missed first tweet in timeline re setanta. Ignore my comment.
JLeeHooker on 06/09/2013 at 11:08 said:

paulsatim says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:44 am

JLeeHooker says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:48 am

The fact that the BBC apologised for his statement is, for me, a travesty and a shame
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Havent seen or heard about this apology. If true then nothing short of shameful bowing to the hiding of the truth.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Check back to StevieBC’s post:

StevieBC says:
September 5, 2013 at 7:23 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Mr x

Thank you for your contact. Your comments were passed to the Editor of Sport, who has asked that we forward his response as follows:

“Thank you for your correspondence. I have reviewed the contents of the Sportsound programme of Wednesday 4 September and the particular phrase to which you draw attention.

The actual words used by Jim Spence were: “John McClelland who was the chairman of the old club, some people will tell you the club, well, the club that died, possibly coming back in terms of the new chairman.” The phrase was used in the context of a live discussion about the proposed additions to the Rangers’ board and about former chairman John McClelland and former director Paul Murray joining the board.

Jim Spence did not state that the club had died but, in the context of a discussion about former board members joining the club, commented that there are some people who hold this particular view.

I do agree that the attributed comment could have been better phrased within the live piece and I am sorry if you were offended by this.

Thank you for your comments.”

Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.

Details of the BBC complaints process are available online at http://www.bbc.co.uk…ts/handle.shtml

Kind Regards

BBC Complaints”

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