The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:39 pm
“On 18 July 2012 – just one month after the Rangers assets had been purchased – Craig appeared on the scene from Nottingham although he still remembered the obligatory visit to Rangers as a boy and as with others who have come to grace the Blue Room he never forgot the ‘goosepimple’ experience.”
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I mentioned this at the time but I suggest that you may want to review what was a carefully crafted statement.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-rangers-chief-executive-craig-1852378
“I can’t honestly say I’ve always been a Rangers fan but I can say, with profound honesty, that I’ve been around football all of my life and have known of Rangers and their huge successes for many years.
“One of my parents was born and raised in Scotland and I can remember being taken to an Old Firm game. I have never forgotten the experience. Ever. The noise and the passion made the hairs on a young man’s arm stand on end.”
Mr Mather does not say he was taken to Ibrox. He said he was taken to an Old Firm Game.
Now if you wanted to gain the Bear’s approval then he would have said he parked his young backside within the hallowed ground and cheered on the Blues.
He can’t honestly say he was always a Rangers fan because it is my guess that the parent who was born in Scotland, probably kicks with the other foot and the Old Firm Game he attended with family members as a young boy was at Parkhead and whoever took him were cheering on the Hoops. 🙂
Afterall if you come home and are a supporter of Hibs Hearts St Johnstone etc why take the lad to an Old Firm game?
Danish Pastry says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Meanwhile, the joy of being Charles Green 😎
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/charles-green-my-normandy-castle-and-my-passion-for-horses.1380795401
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Could have had stabling facilities at Ibrox much cheaper but perhaps he was worried about wandering Bears.
I think he has forgotten that there must millions of Bears in France from the 500 million worldwide support and there is also a large travelling contingent that does so love its coach trips 😈
At least the horses seem to have done well out of Rangers 😉
Danish Pastry says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
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Talk about rubbing the noses of the fans of Rangers – and the creditors of the former Club in it. Look at what I have bought with your money.
Shameful.
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:54 pm
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Goldstein
I’ve taken a step back from the picture, and I’ve had a wee think about your earlier posts.
Charlotte Fakes. You’re suggesting it’s Imran’s maw’s son?
Bartin
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Bartin, Goldstein wouldn’t make it as simple as that. It’s Imran’s maw’s son’s best pal’s best pal’s maw’s son.
100BJD says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
The Duffers are not being sued…they are being quiet…so they are satisfied that the novation paperwork is in order, which leaves us with what exactly was the novation document, who signed it and what authority did the signee have? I think this document is the fault line. I think Charliebhoy and his pal Imran got a wee bit greedy and cut Craigiebhoy out the action. We have also seen many explanations from Rangers in relation to their standing with 5088 including subsidiary, related party and more recently “it was a big boy (Charliebhoy) that did it and ran away.
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I agree with this 100% D&P have a signed and dated novation deed which is their legal cover for transferring the assets to Sevco Scotland instead of Sevco 5088. If that novation agreement was signed (by CG or whoever) on behalf of Sevco5088 without proper authority, and to his own benefit, then the person who signed it is, in my opinion, potentially in very deep trouble. I presume that BDO have the D&P copy of the novation agreement. The other 2 copies may be capable of being “disappeared”, but no one can persuade me that D&P were so terminally stupid as to transfer properties to Sevco Scotland without the benefit of a novation agreement, which they will still hold.
Which takes me to the learned Goldstein. I had a brief exchange with him last night on this very question, around midnight if anyone is interested. He reckons that there was no novation, just a transfer, CG just changed the name on the forms. Just check the timeline, it was just a transfer. And you can sort of call it what you like, it doesn’t really matter. Which tells me that Goldstein is either a great big squirrel, or a troll serving some PR agenda. An agenda which needs us all to stop asking about the novation.
Let’s be clear. There was a novation, Deloittes have undoubtedly seen it, D&P signed it. BDO undoubtedly have a copy, It was probably signed by Green for both Sevco Scotland and Sevco 5088. I see that he’s now in France. If it was me, I’d be in Costa Rica.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
2 0 Rate This
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I don’t think he’ll ever suffer the level of anger that Whyte faces. There’s an element who still see Green as some kind of hero. That’ll change of course if the authorities come after him or his little friend and it all falls apart.
MURRAY SPORTS LIMITED
Status Company is dissolved
Dave king and David Murray finally part ways.
P.S. Check out the shareholders,a Mr Alistair Johnstone.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC192524/MURRAY-SPORTS-LIMITED/group-structure
Wottpi says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Trying not to be pedantic but I don’t think I actually said Ibrox but used Rangers because the venue wasn’t specified but no matter how carefully crafted something is the inconsistencies can creep-in if the PR isn’t up to scratch when the story is retold to different journos.
I took my stuff from the piece that Chris Mac did for the BBC which talks about more than one Old Firm Clash btw 😎
However I fully accept that he might have been watching Rangers at Parkhead with a Celtic-supporting dad or other relative – thank gawd he picked the wrong team to support in later life 🙄
neepheid says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:15 pm
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… Which tells me that Goldstein is either a great big squirrel, or a troll serving some PR agenda. An agenda which needs us all to stop asking about the novation.
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And reveailng an attitude not unlike that displayed by one or both of the characters who have now vacated the scene to pastures new.
I may have uncovered the identity of either Goldstein or Steerpike. I spent some time hiding round the back of Mediocre House’s offices and caught this rather unsavoury character hoist by his own petards:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7169/hczs.jpg
Broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:40 pm
OUCH!
I hope you released the poor thing(s) after you took the photie!
Cue raft of “squirrels and nuts” jokes.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Love a bit of pedantry 🙂
Doesn’t matter how many games it was they were Old Firm games and no mention of which side he was supporting.
If it was more than one game on regular trips north then why not Gers v A.N Other, why specifically Old Firm games. Long way to go thirty years ago to maybe see either of the Glasgow teams pumped by the New Firm.
Best save your trip for a game that meant something 🙂
Either its a load of tosh or his Scottish side are dyed in the wool Timmies 🙂
DP @ 11.39
Ralston really doesn’t like the truth/facts does he? And fair likes the sound of his own voice, talking over callers ! Just the ones that were talking facts though, not the fairy stories!!!! Well done Frank you didn’t say much but brilliant one liners 😆 ‘ticketless ‘ 😆
neepheid
I agree with this 100% D&P have a signed and dated novation deed which is their legal cover for transferring the assets to Sevco Scotland instead of Sevco 5088. If that novation agreement was signed (by CG or whoever) on behalf of Sevco5088 without proper authority
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I think we are on the same page here. Also interesting that Charliebhoy left “packaged up” as I predicted ages ago despite most companies views that gross misconduct was the order of the day. I will go further and say that the racist comment could easily have been part of his exit strategy. Rubbing the bears noses in it ,however, is a bit off piste……just like his deal with Craigiebhoy…
Budget attempt at squirrel pawn shop only half fills larder.
Brenda says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm
I heard him say to the caller pointing out the facts something along the lines of “‘If you want to tell the fans heading to watch a team managed by Ally McCoist and playing at Ibrox, then rather you than me’.
Remember when journalists were the ones who were supposed to report the truth? “Rather you than me”??!? What a coward.
I hadn’t realised this was ‘old news’. All the more puzzling as to why he would hoof it from his new life in France for £1000-a-week in Glasgow. He does like Euro travel though, by road in the mane, especially since he once remarked on tape that there’s not all that bother with people checking your suitcase.
Long Time Lurker says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Talk about rubbing the noses of the fans of Rangers – and the creditors of the former Club in it. Look at what I have bought with your money.
Shameful.
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His Gateau in France——-You CAN have your cake and eat it.
nawlite says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm
‘If you want to tell the fans heading to watch a team managed by Ally McCoist and playing at Ibrox, then rather you than me’.
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It really says a lot for a mentality that people think that type of comment is OK.
So we have that attitude to go along with a tax tribunal with anonymised witnesses and an auditors report with the auditor’s name being withheld.
If people really think there are public safety issues then surely it is time for something to be done about it. There is plenty of evidence of a culture of threats and intimidation. And that includes from the management of the club.
Long Time Lurker says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Talk about rubbing the noses of the fans of Rangers – and the creditors of the former Club in it.
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The first lot? F*ck them they deserve EVERYTHING they get.
The second lot? Clearly I wish they had not lost any money but to be fair to CG he was not party to that happening.
john clarke says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:47 pm
“…Companies House have accepted that CW and AE became directors of Sevco 5088 Ltd on 9 May 2012. ..”
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Thank you, eco. I had not been aware of that. Can’t think how i missed it! It is an extremely important point.
Can you point me in the direction of the CH documentation: my latest print-out of the CH Sevco 5088 entry doesn’t refer to that at all. Presumably it is recorded somewhere else.
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It was a bit of a tortuous process putting it together but you can follow my faltering steps at:
ecobhoy says:
September 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 8, 2013 at 3:26 pm
I also did a round-up post which I can’t spot. However the bottom line is that Green objected to CW and AE as directors when they filed in April 2013 but giving the date they joined as directors as 9 May 2012 with their forms signed by Green.
Green then filed director termination forms in April 2013 to remove CW and AE which they both contested. The upshot was The Registrar at Companies House confirmed that CW and AE were directors from 9 May 2012 and ordered the paperwork submitted by FFW and signed by Green be removed from the Public Record. I have copies of the paperwork though 😉
The Registrar has also twice confirmed that the voluntary striking off Green attempted in December 2012 for Sevco 5088 was suspended. That voluntary striking-off application is interesting because it is only signed by Green and submitted by FFW. But in a company with three directors then a minimum of two of them signing is required on the striking-off application.
There is also the tickly problem that if Sevco 5088 was a subsidiary of RIFC Plc did the Board give permission for the striking-off of Sevco 5088.
The plot continually thickens and I will need to ensure that there is a good equine animal charity in France as I would hate to see the horses ending up homeless and hungry.
Danish Pastry says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:13 pm
I hadn’t realised this was ‘old news’. All the more puzzling as to why he would hoof it from his new life in France for £1000-a-week in Glasgow.
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I believe the consultancy contract was £1,000 a month which makes it even more of a joke 😆
cowanpete says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:38 pm
That really depends how much could have been raised for the creditors with the assets being sold of properly, to the highest bidder.
That is what should have happened after all. Once the CVA failed then the only consideration should have been the best result for the creditors. Nothing else should have been a consideration. That did not happen, for it not to happen was pre-planned, and CG was part of that plan.
The administrator did not carry out their duties properly and CG was complicit in that.
Broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 1:40 pm
I may have uncovered the identity of either Goldstein or Steerpike. I spent some time hiding round the back of Mediocre House’s offices and caught this rather unsavoury character hoist by his own petards:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7169/hczs.jpg
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You just landed me in the sh*t – showed the pic to my better half and was immediately instructed to go out in the p*issin rain and hacksaw the offending bits off our two identical bird feeder poles. And to prevent any confusion or concern – no squirrels were injured in this movie which I’m sure she has on her Ifone 🙄
And I couldn’t spot any ‘steers’ which might have temporarily wandered from their normal haunt – they would I’m afraid have got the bolt ❗
ADD EDIT
She’s now wanting to know if it’s OK – FFS I’ll never hear the end of this. I told her you’d called out the fire brigade, animal recue and a vet. You better get a regular condition report posted as she’ll be checking.
Will be interesting to see what the following come up with
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 18m I’ve had 2 experts (a Chartered Accounant & a Corporate Lawyer specializing in UK football clubs) going over RIFC accounts for 2 days (1/2)
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 17m I’ve learned some shiny new words for ‘clusterfuck’.
Will be publishing soon…
(2/2)Expand Collapse Reply Retweet Retweeted
100BJD says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
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Having dealt with all the squirrel problems I have had the time to sit down and read your really excellent post which explains in simple language the most plausible explanation of what went down here.
I think it says a lot for the posters on here and other sites that we have been inexorably inching towards the position we have now arrived at. I hope the SFO and BDO have been keeping an eye on our efforts as well as Companies House, AIM and other regulatory investigatory bodies.
Hopefully by the end of it all a huge number of lessons will have been learnt from our so-called elders and betters who think they know best. We will never allow them to forget their complicity in allowing this train wreck to happen and who knows how many times it will be repeated before there isn’t a dime left in scrap value.
I wonder what name the French chateau is in 😆
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:51 pm
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I can report that the stunt squirrel I hired for the foto op is unharmed.
With regard to Ralston’s comments, totally “on message” when it came to the newco/same club mantra.
Ask the SFA… (have the SFA ever actually said they are?)
Ask UEFA (again I don’t recall UEFA having said they are)
Ask the ECA – a trade body literally no-one has ever heard of…
Ask Lord Nimmo – a man who came out with a completely unique interpretation of the situation, which was not in relation to his brief, and is neither a legal precedent or legally binding. Of course LNS decided that RFC plc were actually a ‘holding company’.
Keep stating the same thing, keep calling them facts. Dismiss any notion of Company Law, Scots Law or even the SFA rules.
Can I ask why Goldstein is getting a hard time for postulating that Green & Whyte are still working together, and that Whyte still has his grubby mitts all over Rangers?
Here’s Love & Garbage on the floating charge from June last year- just the time Goldstein is suggesting Charlotte “appeared” (in whatever guise that may have been).
http://loveandgarbage.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/craig-whyte-and-the-floating-charge/
I think Goldstein was trying to suggest that CF was all about portraying CW and CG as enemies. It was PR designed for this purpose. I said earlier that I don’t think CF did this at all, rather the opposite, it showed them to be accomplices.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm
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100BJD says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
===============================================
Having dealt with all the squirrel problems I have had the time to sit down and read your really excellent post which explains in simple language the most plausible explanation of what went down here.
I think it says a lot for the posters on here and other sites that we have been inexorably inching towards the position we have now arrived at. I hope the SFO and BDO have been keeping an eye on our efforts as well as Companies House, AIM and other regulatory investigatory bodies.
Hopefully by the end of it all a huge number of lessons will have been learnt from our so-called elders and betters who think they know best. We will never allow them to forget their complicity in allowing this train wreck to happen and who knows how many times it will be repeated before there isn’t a dime left in scrap value.
I wonder what name the French chateau is in 😆
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“Le nez bleu” perhaps…… “Cest trop facile”…..”Vert est vert mais jamais bleu” ….. “ou est le novation” any other ideas… Thanks for your comment. Means a lot from such an excellent poster.
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:20 pm
2 0 Rate This
Can I ask why Goldstein is getting a hard time for postulating that Green & Whyte are still working together, and that Whyte still has his grubby mitts all over Rangers?
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Is he getting a hard time for that? Don’t think so, he is getting grief for his Charles Greenesque way of communicating, stating the obvious, disparaging attitude, and out-and-out flannel. What has he told us that isn’t already known or that hasn’t already been mulled over? Not much. So what is he telling us, or getting us to stop looking at? You could look back at his posts, well, the ones he hasn’t deleted. There’s a bit of the ‘all mouth and no trousers’ about it. But I do hope he comes back and proves me wrong.
Goldstein,
Rather than asking us to pay better attention to the law why don’t you spell it out in words that simpletons like me can understand. You seem to have a lot to offer but I can’t fathom out what you are getting at.
If I want cryptic clues I’ll get the Telegraph’s crossword book.
hirdmanrunning says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:16 pm
They are very fond of quoting sources, none of whom have an opinion worth any weight in this matter
As regards LNS they keep omitting his caveat when he spoke about the club/company
Can’t remember his exact words, but it was along the lines of “for the purposes of this Tribunal only”
Makes quite a difference to the LNS straw that they clutch on to
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm
1 0 Rate This
… 2) Instead of fault line, think in terms of a chicken and egg situation. Proof of this, real hard evidence, really exists in time and space. I had hoped to present it hear in the next 9 days but that will not be necessary.
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What about the stuff you are going to reveal tomorrow? Is that still in the pipeline?
Yours in bluster
Patisserie Danoise
Danish Pastry says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:42 pm
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm.
Proof of this, real hard evidence, really exists in time and space. I had hoped to present it hear in the next 9 days but that will not be necessary.
—————
What about the stuff you are going to reveal tomorrow? Is that still in the pipeline? Yours in bluster
Patisserie Danoise
========================================
Hear Hear or is that Here Here ❓ Oh well there’s a surprise. However one thing that Ibrox has in common with ‘ time and space’ is that both have ever expanding Black Holes 😆
Just as well the Boss Moderator on RM has solved the riddle of the missing £5.7 million Black Hole in Rangers’ Accounts. Turns out it’s all down to Charlie but don’t panic because it’s only a paper transaction and the money isn’t actually not there – it’s still there. Somewhere in Ibrox there lurks a stuffed warchest apparently. Probably stuffed with deads squirrels right enough.
I usually refrain from posting an RM link but this one is worth a read – I promise you it’s much more hilarious than goldstein.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=259564
Thanks for the reply Goldstein. Everything you say was well covered on RTC in respect of the FC’s and I think we all got the message at that time. Unfortunately I (mistakenly) assumed that you had fresh knowledge to bring to the table. No offence meant.
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:49 pm
2 1 Rate This
… Anyway, I really am busy. Sorry if that offends you, Danish. This is a side issue for me.
————-
I’m not really offended personally, more bemused.
So what about tomorrow’s revelation? I’d be interested, I’m not too busy this week as I’m stuck here at home with a miserable cough and influenza. So, fire away …
tomtom says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Look at the posting history.
Loads of words and little or no substance. If he had something meaningful to say he would have said it long ago.
BDO are sorting out the position with regard the old club. The real issues just now are the accounts and the upcoming AGM. Historic talk about who did what with whom is simply a distraction.
Rangers are not a tenable business and there is civil war in the board room. The whole thing is imploding and the current incumbents of that boardroom want to retain control so that they are in charge of what happens next, for their own benefit.
Anyone who cares has a maximum of three weeks, and then that’s it. If the current board can retain control then there is nothing to stop them. There may be a bit of stage dressing from others but that’s all it will be.
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:49 pm
I actually don’t think I’m being in the least bit cryptic. Anybody who knows about the law in regards to floating charges would understand that what I said is very, very straight forward.
————————————————
The problem is that this isn’t a law blog. Most of us here have been educated as we have gone along to a degree as regards various legal and accounting practices, but only to a limited extent. That said, many of us can bring a glimmer of knowledge to the debate when it turns to something we specialise in, and so we can collectively at least try to air the issues, if come to different conclusions. So while I appreciate that your posts may seem as clear as day to you, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will gain traction with the posters here unless they are given a bit more explanation, because only a few here have the degree of legal expertise you may be assuming. This would also apply (and has also applied) to anyone else who wanted to post a join-the-dots scenario that was aiming to re-frame the debate.
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Here’s Love & Garbage on the floating charge from June last year- just the time Goldstein is suggesting Charlotte “appeared” (in whatever guise that may have been).
http://loveandgarbage.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/craig-whyte-and-the-floating-charge/
=================================================================
So what are you saying – that Love & Garbage which has been running for years is CF?
I read the long piece anyway and the most important bit IMO was: ‘It may be the case that Whyte’s floating charge doesn’t matter – but the honest answer is to admit ignorance. Why? because the floating charge might matter, and without the background position we don’t know.’
So perhaps you or goldstein could explain in words of one symbol to us ignoramus simpletons what the background is. Until then I intend to waste no more time on his rambles through twisted cul-de-sacs.
ADD EDIT
Oh look two squirrels now
stevensanph says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:32 am
On 14 June 2012, Sevco 5088 Limited entered into agreements for no consideration to legally reassign its beneficial interest in funding placing letters
held and to novate the trade and assets purchase agreement with RFC 2012 plc (in administration), to Sevco Scotland Limited (now The Rangers Football
Club Ltd).
+++++++++++
Hang on… so Sevco 5088 DID have the assets and gave them to Sevco Scotland for 0.
So if Green was the one that signed these over, without the permission of Craig Whyte, surely this whole facade is about to come crashing down?
———————————-
Korissa Capital and Willow International take an interest in Sevco 5088 around 9th May 2012 when Whyte and Earley become directors whilst CG previously owns the only £1 share.
CG resigned Sevco 5088 on 15th June, the day after he reassigned 5088 rights to Sevco Scotland.
The question is, were Earley and Whyte still Directors of 5088 when CG did the reassignment and did they agree to the transaction.
The suggestion is that they were still Directors on 14th June and did not agree with the reassignment. The Letter before Claim dwells on this aspect.
I think an important element is that the transaction between 5088 and Scotland is said to have taken place “…for no consideration …”. This suggests that someone was feeling very generous or alternatively that it could have been fraudulent.
The whole LBC thing might be another part of the scam: A Punch and Judy show for the benefit of the audience: A squirrel of magnificent proportions. It does however appear to be a serious enough possibility for the above statement to be made.
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:49 pm
lol @ tomtom
OK. I actually don’t think I’m being in the least bit cryptic. Anybody who knows about the law in regards to floating charges would understand that what I said is very, very straight forward.
If you think this is cryptic, wait until you read my chicken and egg article. It even makes my head hurt.
So, anyway, the law was changed in 2003 or something. Prior to the law change, holders of floating charge securities had a right to appoint their very own special super-hero receiver when the company in question went into administration.
========================
“So, anyway, the law was changed in 2003” – That would be the Enterprise Act 2002.
You do know the nebulous stuff in your post, not even quoting the act, was discussed long long ago. In relation to Whyte and a Receiver. Do you perceive this to be something new.
Dear Goldstein
1. 100BJD says:
October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
It’s hard to imagine someone typing so much and being more wrong on this subject. Since you put in the effort, I will give you some analysis and try and clear one or two things up.
I am too busy to be a regular contributor so the typing so much is not accurate.
There isn’t a fault line. Everything you say about a fault line is just wrong. It might sound interesting or something, but it has no real bearing on the reality of what transpired.
There are many faults in this whole story. I was describing one of them and I and others have noted some pretty obvious inconsistencies. I was simply stating them.
2) Instead of fault line, think in terms of a chicken and egg situation. Proof of this, real hard evidence, really exists in time and space. I had hoped to present it hear in the next 9 days but that will not be necessary.
I am trying to get into the suggested mode although I confess to having problems here. Entirely down to me I am sure. All that education wasted! I see your new/latest time zone for nuclear information is now nine days. I Cannot wait for you to make your point. I thought you mentioned next friday….is that nine days from now?
2b) What came first, the stadium or the company? (ding!) This isn’t exactly an either / or situation, if you think it through both possibilities are a lot of fun.
You call what Rangers fans are going through as “a lot of fun”….I certainly do not.
3) You say: “The Duffers are not being sued…they are being quiet…so they are satisfied that the novation paperwork is in order, which leaves us with what exactly was the novation document, who signed it and what authority did the signee have?”
Hilarious really. Good effort though. Why would D&P be sued, because you think they might have left themselves open to some impropriety charge in terms of the form filling? There’s nothing complicated about this so let me put it simply — D&P were not involved, they had left the building, job done, why the hell would it involve them, they had enough on their plate trying to get their cash? Trust me, D&P honoured the agreement, took the cheque, and left.
The reference to this fabled Novation has been misunderstood, I think. Note that i said “I think” — that’s because I’m not sure. I don’t rule out the possibility that security over the catering facility, as discussed, was novated and who knows, this could be that and other trivial stuff
You are repeating what I said. The Duffers left the building with good paperwork…I did not realise this could be seen as hilarious.
4) Something a lot of you overlooked more than once. Craig Whyte had his own receiver involved in the relevant transactions, as was his right in regards to his security. Let me advise some of you to pay better attention to the Law on floating charges and securities, I mentioned this before. I’m surprised nobody has ever looked into this, and I mean nobody.
When are you kids going to get it — the stadium is the business (everything else you can buy at the barras). Never thought I’d ever find myself on a football forum telling people to keep their eyes on the ball. And I don’t even like the game.
Actually I was commenting on the novation aspect of the general transaction so you have the wrong man. The stadium is either an asset or a contingent liability dependant on how any deal is structured. If Rangers own Ibrox it is an asset. If a property company ownS Ibrox and leaseback to Rangers it is an asset. If a property company own Ibrox and Rangers lease Hampden then it would be a contingent liability. By the way one of my favourite songs is….”The Kids Are All Right”…..an old Who classic!
I must confess that I try to be open minded and listen to everyones viewpoints. There are some excellent posters in this forum who have actually produced some good work. You are going to tell us your thoughts in nine days time so I am sure you will be able to compete with the rest of this blog’s contributors in due course. This will be my only reply to you as I have no wish or time to debate with you on ………………anything really!
.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Now hear the chap out. He is basing his theory on the law changing in 2003 … or something.
Goldstein is correct. The law did change in 2003- it was known as the Enterprise Act. Further, the CVA proposal clearly states the Rangers FC Group’s security was assigned in 1999 in Schedule 7.
Goldstein- had you noticed that Andrew Ellis was terminated from the Rangers FC Group on 20th August this year? Why do you think that was?
Goldstein says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:19 pm
0 0 Rate This
.
===========================
Not so sure about about Liberty Capital having a floating charge and decide to delete that post until you could check some things.
From memory, and only from memory the floating charge actually went from the bank to Wavetower, which changed to the Rangers Group Ltd. Rangers were pretty much debt free, other than the £18m they owed to their own holding company*.
I remember discussing it at the time. Craig Whyte owned Rangers (85%) but through Liberty Capital owning Wavetower he was also the major creditor.
I seem to remember him wearing two hats in the whole situation.
*Do you see the irony with the new clubs situation. Meet the new boss etc.
Ecobhoy
Just saw your post – purpose of the Love & Garbage post was not to imply he was CF, it was to point out the issue over the Floating Charge was relevant at the time Goldstein alleges Charlotte appeared, eg the time of Green’s purchase of the assets, which was 14 months ago or so.
Here’s a question. Why was Andrew Ellis terminated as a director from The Rangers FC Group (formerly Wavetower, and holder of the floating charge) in August this year? Why was the strike- off suspended? Wasn’t this company supposed to be irrelevant now? These things bear all the hallmarks of Craig Whyte up to his old tricks. It’s the kind of thing that got people’s attention in the old RTC days but apparently not now.
FWIW I agree with Goldstein- I don’t think people have their eyes on the ball. I’m no legal expert but I know when, and where, to look- and always have done.
As for being a squirrel, many on here will remember I used to post quite a lot on the old RTC blog and this one early doors, and I am pretty active on twitter. I came back primarily because there was something about Goldstein’s posts that rang true.
You seem quite defensive in my opinion, Ecobhoy, which is a shame, as I have read and enjoyed quite a lot of the stuff you put out on Paul McConville’s blog.
I’ve read all of Goldstein’s posts. Yes, he’s quite arrogant.
But so what?
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:44 pm
FWIW I agree with Goldstein- I don’t think people have their eyes on the ball. I’m no legal expert but I know when, and where, to look- and always have done.
…
I’ve read all of Goldstein’s posts. Yes, he’s quite arrogant.
But so what?
====================================
That actually brought a smile to my face.
Simply fantastic.
Goldstein: “Something a lot of you overlooked more than once. Craig Whyte had his own receiver involved in the relevant transactions, as was his right in regards to his security. Let me advise some of you to pay better attention to the Law on floating charges and securities, I mentioned this before. I’m surprised nobody has ever looked into this, and I mean nobody.”
——————————-
With that comment our friend Goldstein….[Edit – abuse: TSFM]
The significance of the law change in relation to Floating Charges was discussed on RangersTaxCase, Kerrydalestreet and many other forums for months on end before even the A-Bomb hit Ibrox.
It has been well documented that Whyte’s biggest panic was over the prospect of HMRC being allowed by the court to appoint their own administrator rather than his chosen one, the Duff & Duffer duo who were colleagues of his bagman Grier.
If that’s the extent of your insight, Goldstein, do us all a favour and stop trying to insult our intelligence.
[Edited – abuse]
WRT the Annual Report and with apologies if I have missed someone else posting on the same subject…
The fact that the accounts are not broken down to give clarity on individual company/subsidiary performance continues to mask just who now owns the properties.
The early part of the Report mentions ‘Club’ much of the time when discussing issues but when we get to Page 15 Property Matters this becomes “the company’s properties”.
Hall’s valuation of Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park gives a combined value of £79.2 million of which “The Company’s financial statements includes the properties at an existing use valuation of £42.5 million…”
On page 23 this is reflected as “Gains on property revaluation of £33,988,000”.
I also note that on Page 15 “The Directors will re-visit this exercise at each subsequent balance sheet date to consider whether the value in use calculation can support a higher value of RIFC’s properties.” i.e. they will likely try and pull some of the £37M ‘headroom’ in property values into their P&L to massage future horrendous operational losses – if, of course, they get that far.
Not bad for assets that cost <£5.5M, eh?
What interested me more though was how they were going to make the switch of these assets from TRFC to RIFC – the revised value now dwarfs the debt of TRFC to the parent company (“Amounts due from subsidiary undertakings £16,163,000” on Page 25).
On Page 36 under 10. ACQUISITION the statement is made that “On 14 June 2012 The Rangers Football Club Ltd, a subsidiary of RIFC, purchased the trade and assets of RFC 2012 plc,…”
No statement however is made that these assets remain in the ownership of TRFC.
Is it possible that a transfer of assets from TRFC to RIFC has already taken place i.e. before Hall’s valuation?
If this is the case would that not have been a material fact that should have been disclosed in the accounts – especially if TRFC were to suddenly be placed into administration?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 2:39 pm
“…It was a bit of a tortuous process putting it together.”
—-
Thank you. Not been able to stay on the blog -various household stuff to contend with. But the wife will be out at the theatre later, so I’ll be able to get to grips with your stuff.
A question of balance?
No not just an LP by the Moody Blues a perspective on our collective output.
If our new friend Goldstein (who says he or she is not in the employ of anyone who wants to influence us) can help this story move forward (even if he or she has a particular agenda) then that is great and he or she is welcome.
The floor is open.
I do have a concern that our other discussions and various diggings have been stymied a tad.
So we have a compulsory strike off suspended for the Rangers FC Group on the 8th August 2013, followed by the termination of Andrew Ellis’s directorship on the 20th August 2013.
We can also see via Companies House that there was a suspension of the proposed strike- off for Liberty Corporate on the 28th August 2013.
These two companies of Whyte’s were/ are intrinsically linked to the issue of the floating charge which Goldstein refers to.
Yet no one else appears to think this is worthy of discussion. It is criticised, in fact, as ‘trolling’.
Why?
Oh- and another thing. I was reliably informed that Ellis was one of the men behind Putney Holdings.
A coincidence, I’m sure.
😀
Castofthousands says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:19 pm
stevensanph says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:32 am
On 14 June 2012, Sevco 5088 Limited entered into agreements for no consideration to legally reassign its beneficial interest in funding placing letters held and to novate the trade and assets purchase agreement with RFC 2012 plc (in administration), to Sevco Scotland Limited (now The Rangers Football
Club Ltd).
+++++++++++
Hang on… so Sevco 5088 DID have the assets and gave them to Sevco Scotland for 0. So if Green was the one that signed these over, without the permission of Craig Whyte, surely this whole facade is about to come crashing down?
———————————-
Korissa Capital and Willow International take an interest in Sevco 5088 around 9th May 2012 when Whyte and Earley become directors whilst CG previously owns the only £1 share. CG resigned Sevco 5088 on 15th June, the day after he reassigned 5088 rights to Sevco Scotland.
The question is, were Earley and Whyte still Directors of 5088 when CG did the reassignment and did they agree to the transaction. The suggestion is that they were still Directors on 14th June and did not agree with the reassignment. The Letter before Claim dwells on this aspect.
================================================================
I think there are a couple of things/corrections that can tighten-up what is said above. The Registrar at Companies House has accepted that the directorships of Whyte and Earley in Sevco 5088 Lts run from 9 May 2012 until the present day.
As far as Green is concerned: The Public Register at Companies House shows that Sevco 5088 was incorporated on 29 March 2012 and Green became a director on 3 May 2012 and he is still listed as a director.
But he has never appeared on the Public Register as a shareholder and the £1 subscribing share is, according to Companies House, still held by 7Side Secretarial Ltd and has been since incorporation 29 March 2012.
Sevco 5088 Ltd had the exclusive right to buy the Business and Assets of Rangers from D&P but it never owned those assets because it ‘novated’ them to Sevco Scotland for £NIL. However I have no doubt that Sevco 5088 had other assets from the investment cash supplied by the initial investors in the Green-fronted consortium.
It paid the £200k to pay D&P the ‘exclusivity’ fee and yet even that wasn’t to be paid back to Sevco 5088 apparently but to Imran Ahmad although I don’t know if it went to his mum’s bank account. Indeed the Rangers AIM Prospectus confirms loans in ‘related party’ terms as confirmed in the Rangers AIM Prospectus as follows:
We then have a welter of conflicting announcements concerning Sevco 5088 Ltd to AIM and elsewhere including the Rangers offishal website and televised from Green’s own mouth. And of course as well as Whyte and earley becoming Sevco 5088 directors on 9 May 2012 at the company’s Board Meeting in London we then apparently have Korissa Capital and Willow International appearing as shareholders in the company but that too has never been noted on the Public Register.
I have no doubts that Earley and Whyte were directors of Sevco 5088 when Green novated the company’s rights for free on 14 June 2012. Whether he was still a director of Sevco 5088 Ltd at that time depends on the terms of the resignation letter I now believe he signed on 9 May 2012 at the company’s London Board Meeting.
IMO if he signed an agreement on behalf on Sevco 5088 and wasn’t a Board Member then he has a BIG problem. I he was still a Board Member and signed the Agreement with the knowledge and authority of the other two Board Members viz Whyte and Earley then he can enjoy his French retirement. However if he didn’t have their permission then he might be taking a bit of ‘French Leave’..
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Discuss away.
It’s really up to other people to decide if they want to join in that discussion. They really don’t need to explain to you why they have made that decision.
For me the really important issues just now, as far as Rangers are concerned, are the disastrous accounts and the AGM coming up in three weeks or so.
The most important historic issues are, in no real order.
The five way agreement and the complicit football authorities.
How new Rangers got into Scottish senior football
The joke that was the investigation into side contracts
The behaviour of Duff and Phelps and Collyer Bristow, or at least their staff
Why Rangers senior management have gotten away with blatant rabble rousing
There are more, those are from the top of my head.
So, like I said, discuss away. Please however accept that other might not be that interested. Particularly when the person starting the discussions really isn’t saying much of interest, in my opinion.
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:20 pm
I once had a teacher, I’m sure many will recognise him, or his ilk. He was very overbearing and on the first day in class he would tell you he knew everything and had no time for fools. He delighted in the sound of his own voice and to tell you he knew everything there was to know on the subject. ‘Listen to me, and you’ll learn all there is to know’, and so he’d talk, and talk, and talk. He clearly knew what he was talking about, or I think he did, coz I never learned anything from him I didn’t already know, and any pupil prepared to raise their head above the parapet, dared to interrupt him to ask a question, he never answered it, instead used the opportunity to belittle said pupil, while showing how clever he himself was, until nobody dared ask any questions, coz nobody likes to be put down; we never got the answer to the questions anyway.
I never worked out if he was extremely knowledgeable in his chosen subject, but absolutely useless teacher: or just a blusterer who knew how to get a job in teaching by creating an aura of knowledge that brooked no questioning by his peers.
I have come to recognise this teacher in Mr Goldstein. He appears to have knowledge, and wants to impart it to us, unfortunately he doesn’t like to be questioned, and from the outset has used a mocking tone when replying to anyone who has asked him for clarification. He also seems, and I emphasize seems, to be suggesting that we are driven solely by Charlotte’s revelations and, in his opinion, have misunderstood the true meaning of her revelations.
As with Charlotte, in his/her short sojourn here, some posters have, quite correctly, asked why we should believe this new poster and accept what he says as being on the money. So far all we’ve been told is that we are fools for not believing without question. We didn’t even give RTC that deference! Sadly, Bartin, you will be unable to go back and see for yourself as, for some reason, it appears the contents of Goldstein’s posts have been removed.
PS
I, and I’m sure everyone else, hope Goldstein is genuine, and has the insightful information and knowledge he suggests he has.
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:06 pm
These two companies of Whyte’s were/ are intrinsically linked to the issue of the floating charge which Goldstein refers to. Yet no one else appears to think this is worthy of discussion. It is criticised, in fact, as ‘trolling’. Why?
===============================================================
Because goldstein is going to reveal all in 9 days – where’s Brenda she’s never around when a clock’s needed.
But while we await the nuclear detonation and blinding flash of light the rest of us are beavering away building our squirrel-proof fall-out shelters.
There is also the imminent court case in London which might provide a lot of answers and therefore as we are all in this for the long haul we are quite happy to sit back and let others do some work for us. You have to remember the main aim of many on here is not really influenced by what happens at the agm. We are looking much futher down the road and have developed patience and a fair bit of expertise to finish the job in due course.
So settle down a bit and don’t get too fussed that it is 9 days and ticking 😆
nickmcguinness says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:49 pm
10 0 Rate This
Goldstein: “Something a lot of you overlooked more than once. Craig Whyte had his own receiver involved in the relevant transactions, as was his right in regards to his security. Let me advise some of you to pay better attention to the Law on floating charges and securities, I mentioned this before. I’m surprised nobody has ever looked into this, and I mean nobody.”
——————————-
With that comment our friend Goldstein has gone from verbose, esoteric and mildly interesting to an uninformed, patronising pillock.
+++++++++++++++++++++
In my view, Goldstein acquired that status last night with his frankly ludicrous comments on the novation from Sevco5088 to Sevco Scotland. There is some strange quirk of character in me that resents being lectured to by somebody who clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Allyjambo says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:21 pm
4 0 Rate This
———
Haud oan Ally, there’s a big Goldstein revelation coming up tomorrow. I, for one, can’t wait.
The Scottish Football Monitor is an outstanding forum for a diversity of views and analysis.There is, however, a tendency for those with alleged groundbreaking information to tease and,shall we say, withhold.I can’t be bothered with that.If you have something to say,say it.
I miss the straightalking,honest brokerage of RangersTax Case.
RTC ,if you are out there,I am sure I speak for all on TSFM,any contributions would be gratefully accepted.You are sorely missed.
My thumb is up for your return.
ecobhoy @ 5.27pm
I’m here but my clocks are all gubbed a bit like sevco 😉
But if you want me to time something make a list 😉 I’ll do it just for you, when did Goldstein say he’d do the big reveal?? Lost track a wee bit today still trying to work out what Ralston was trying to avoid talking about on SSB last night 😆
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Oh- and another thing. I was reliably informed that Ellis was one of the men behind Putney Holdings. A coincidence, I’m sure.
================================================
If you check FF on 17 September 2013 you will see the discussion on Ellis and Putney Holdings. Of course Imran Ahmad who was fond of using various screen-names also identified Adrian Corr with Putney Holdings just before he was outed on RM although to be fair to the Turks & Caicos lawyer he was probably more a front man IMO than a ‘behind’ one.
neepheid says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:29 pm
“There is some strange quirk of character in me that resents being lectured to by somebody who clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
++++++++++++++++++
A quirk that I share, it must be an age thing. I have become less tolerant of flannel and fluff as I’ve got older. I’m not impressed with Goldstein – too much to say and not enough substance.
Folks, I have suspended Goldstein’s posting privileges on account of his very strange and inexplicable habit of posting something and then editing or deleting his comment later. This is causing a bit of confusion for us as mods, and we hope that Goldstein is not simply “at the wind up” to use the Glesca vernacular.
The edit facility is global, so I can’t turn it on or off on a per user basis. This is no reflection on Goldstein’s comments of themselves, but on the bizarre editing thing.
If Goldstein contacts me directly via PM, I will try to sort it out with him
ecobhoy says:
October 3, 2013 at 4:17 pm
BartinMain says:
October 3, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Here’s Love & Garbage on the floating charge from June last year- just the time Goldstein is suggesting Charlotte “appeared” (in whatever guise that may have been).
http://loveandgarbage.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/craig-whyte-and-the-floating-charge/
=================================================================
Oh look two squirrels now
_________________________________________________________________________
Brenda says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:44 pm
ecobhoy @ 5.27pm
I’m here but my clocks are all gubbed a bit like sevco 😉
But if you want me to time something make a list 😉 I’ll do it just for you, when did Goldstein say he’d do the big reveal?? Lost track a wee bit today still trying to work out what Ralston was trying to avoid talking about on SSB last night 😆
===================================================
Well I suppose we would need to know what time zone he is in 😕
He started off saying Friday but it was unclear whether that was tomorrow or some as yet unspecified Friday and then it became 9 days but for the life of me I can’t remember whether that started yesterday or today 😆
Danish Pastry says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:33 pm
Allyjambo says:
October 3, 2013 at 5:21 pm
4 0 Rate This
———
Haud oan Ally, there’s a big Goldstein revelation coming up tomorrow. I, for one, can’t wait.
______________________________
Oh, forgot to mention, there was some gossip around school about something this teacher revealed, in private 😳 . It wasn’t very big so no one paid it much notice anyway.
(to be honest, that didn’t happen but I thought it might raise a laugh 😆 )
I keep wondering whether Cache Converters should be renamed Cache Flush and I would certainly give that a TU 😆
Ecobhoy
The Cohen v Collyer case should be a cracker.
And yes, agreed. Patience is a virtue.
So with squirrels exit stage left, what’s the next act in the saga?
Nick Littlewood @NickPLittlewood 55m
Wow! Although I worry there’s a danger of them destroying the feel-good factor after those accounts | Board Statement http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5213-board-statement …