The Rangers saga as it happened…

Bystevensanph

The Rangers saga as it happened…

The last 12 months has seen a lot of water pass under the bridge.  For a newcomer it is very hard to see past what the MSM are currently printing – I hope this article will go someway to rectifying that, and allow those who didn’t follow this story from the start to get a basic understanding of the views that have been formed on Rangerstaxcase.com and on TSFM.  Further, I hope it refreshes the memories of those of us who have followed the saga since the early days and focuses our attention on asking key questions that remain unasked or unanswered.

I have provided links where possible throughout the time line.  I have also highlighted in red where the story seems to end, a question remains unasked, or no answer has been forthcoming.  I may also have missed some critical points – feel free to mention these and we can add as we go.

The Rangers Saga as it happened…

June 2001: Christian Nerlinger joins Rangers.  Little be known to the rest of Scottish football he will be the first player paid by an EBT (an Employee Benefit Trust) which will later be declared illegal (as administered by Rangers) by HMRC.

Summer 2004: Jean Alain Boumsong rejects English Premier League sides to sign for Rangers on a free transfer.  Six months later he is sold (January of 2005) to Newcastle in an 8million deal .  This deal is later investigated by the City of London police who raided Newcastle and Rangers in June 2007.

A later report from Lord Steven remarked:

“There remains inconsistencies in evidence provided by Graeme Souness – a former manager of the club – and Freddy Shepherd – apparently acting in an undefined role but not as a club official – as to their respective roles in transfer negotiations.”

April 2010: HMRC hit Rangers with a tax bill of 24m before penalties for non payment of taxes  on monies remitted to players and staff via the EBT scheme.

27th March 2011: A new blog appears on wordpress named ‘Rangerstaxcase.com’.  Little did we know the impact it will have on Scottish Football.

6th of May 2011: Craig Whyte buys Rangers FC PLC for 1gbp from David Murray, with his holding company Wavetower taking over 85% of the Football club.

Mid-May 2011:  Craig Whyte renames Wavetower to the ‘Rangers Football Group Ltd’, the holding company for Rangers FC PLC.  He immediately claims he has cleared the Rangers debt to Lloyds Bank and is ready to invest in the team.  He quickly removes Alastair Johnston and Paul Murray from the Board and suspends  Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre.

5th June 2011: RTC uncovers a MG05 document filed at Companies House showing that Rangers have assigned 4 years of season ticket sales to another company.  This is later denied by Craig Whyte, but later on turns out to be the mechanism by which Whyte funded the takeover.

19th June 2011: Craig Whyte is asked about the RTC blog, remarking:

“I’m aware of a website that has dedicated itself to talking about our tax case, I’ve looked at it. What they’re saying is 99 per cent crap”

August 2011: Rangers are knocked out of Europe by Maribor.  A seemingly irrelevant event, but one that leaves a £15m hole in Craig Whytes budget.  One that he meets by not paying the tax man.  RTC questions in October where this money was coming from…

10th September 2011: Court papers from Martin Bain, related to his employment case against Rangers explode across the internet (papers in full here).  Within them there is a plea from Bain’s lawyers to freeze the claimed compensation as they feel there is a question mark over the clubs solvency.  Further it exposes the assignment of ticket sales to a 3rd party and shows that the debt owed to Lloyds Bank has not been discharged completely.  RTC analysis’ of these ‘Bain papers’ is concluded with the following:

While Rangers’ supporters might not be in any mood to thank anyone for helping shed light on this situation, it is good for their club (if not its current and previous owners) that this information is in the public domain. It is especially good for our national game as a whole that we discuss the problems of the last decade openly. Rangers supporters need to ask themselves why they have meekly stood by while the future of their club has been imperiled and whether their “friends” in the media have done them an injustice by becoming complicit in the cover-up of this story.

Unfortunately, despite the information being exposed to all, the Rangers fans failed to listen…

October 2011:  In the first mainstream feature on the case, the BBC air a documentary proving that Craig Whyte had been banned from holding a director position in UK companies for 7 years for ‘putting assets out of the reach of creditors’.  BBC are banned from Ibrox and Whyte claims he will sue the BBC for presenting false evidence – but later admits that he was disqualified.  Rather amusingly he admits this the same day he reveals Rangers have reduced their debt to 14m…. (they hadn’t)

The SFA stay silent on the matter and the writ received by the BBC in February 2012 has since vanished.

30th November 2011:  Rangers PLC release un-audited accounts for the year 2010/2011 revealing profits of 2 million pounds and NET Assets of 76m.  The accounts are NOT signed by an auditor leading to rumors all is not well in Ibrox.

January 2012: RTC explains in detail Succulent Lamb Journalism…  the phrase becomes a defining point of the story, along with ‘internet bampots’, coined by Hugh Keevins.

18th January 2012:  The ‘Big tax case’ concludes.  We still await the findings…

13th February: Rangers file papers at the Court of Session giving notice of their intention to enter administration within 7 days…

14th February:  HMRC petition the CoS to allow them to appoint administrators.  After a short hearing, HMRC withdraw the motion and Rangers PLC promptly appoints the now infamous Duff & Phelps as administrators.  On Valentines eve, Craig Whyte stands on the steps of Ibrox and announces to the angry mob the unthinkable… Rangers FC PLC is now in administration.

That evening it is confirmed that HMRC had pushed for administration over £9 million in unpaid VAT, PAYE and NI since the Whyte takeover.  This later rises to 18m.

99% what Craig?

15th February 2012: The SPL immediately deduct Rangers (IA) 10 points for entering administration, as per league rules.  Possibly the last time they follow their own rules throughout this saga.

Bizarrely, Rangers (IA) push ahead with the proposed signing of Daniel Cousin on wages of 7500GBP/week.  The SFA make no comment, despite this being against the rules for a club in administration.

David Murray, in typical fashion, professes surprise at events which RTC warned about 12 months earlier while Murray was still in charge.  Murray also says:

“Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of £36.5m excluding interest and penalties.

“Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favorable.”

21st February: Daily Mail confirm what RTC told us last year, by confirming that Ticketus bought 100,000 season tickets at Ibrox over the next 4 years.  It was this money that Whyte used to buy the club.  Rangers fans are up in arms.  Even though they ignored the warnings a year earlier.

The SFA announce that Lord Nimmo Smith will chair an inquiry into the circumstances leading to administration.

25th February 2012: The Sun on Sunday launches by printing what they claim is a ‘side letter’ given to Rangers players. A financial expert tells them:

“Number one, you are going to get £122,000 and number two you get £1,200 for a first-team game.

“It equates to salary as far as I am concerned. I would say this sort of letter will be a central thread in the big tax case.

RTC will later confirm they are correct.

27th February 2012:  The SFA confirm they will start an investigation into these ‘side letters’

3rd March 2012: D&P admit Rangers have no chance of making Europe next season, as they admit audited accounts by the 31st of March would be almost impossible.

However, in a baffling move, one month later D&P reveal they are ‘appealing’ the decision to ban Rangers from Europe.  UEFA respond by saying

“Licence applicants must demonstrate that as at March 31, 2012, they have no payables overdue towards their employees or social/tax authorities as a result of contractual/legal obligations to their employees that arose prior to December 31, 2011.”

8th March 2012:  Lord Nimmo Smith forwards his report to the SFA Judicial Panel.  The report contains prima facie evidence that Craig Whyte was not a ‘fit and proper person’.  A hearing is set for the 29th of March.  This is later postponed at the request of Whyte.  The full Nimmo Smith report has still not been released by the SFA.

9th March 2012: With no redundancies in sight, Rangers players agree to pay cuts, ranging from 75 – 25%.  It is later revealed that these are not ‘pay cuts’, but pay deferments which must be repaid in the summer, otherwise Rangers will be in breach of contract.  No info is forthcoming in the summer on whether this was paid or not.

5th April 2012: D&P reveal in their first creditors report that Rangers debts could top 134m, with HMRC claiming 93m of the total.

The report also details debts to football creditors of around 2.3m.  It also details debts of hundreds of creditors, such as that for Susie Thomson – a face-painter from Glasgow owed 40quid.  These were the real human losers in this story.

Interestingly, assets are valued at 116m, as per the 2011 accounts.

23rd April 2012: The SFA’s independent panel finds Rangers (IA) guilty of 5 different breaches of SFA rules relating to disrupte charges and are handed a 160,000GBP fine, the maximum available and a 12 month transfer embargo.  The judicial panel state that the offenses committed by Rangers were only one step “lower than match fixing”, and reveal that they considered the punishment of suspension of license or expulsion from the SFA.  They determine a fine would not be enough given the seriousness of the charges and thus impose a transfer embargo.

In the judgement, the panel make reference to evidence given by the Rangers Financial Controller who said invoices to Ticketus were such that they ” appeared as though Clip Art computer processes had been involved in their creation.” The FC tells the  panel he had never seen them.

24th April 2012:  The uproar from Ibrox is loud, with the Bears taking their anger out on the SFA.  McCoist makes a rallying call, demanding to know “who these people are”  He makes an ‘apology’ the next day for putting their lives in danger, but stops short of apologising for forcing names to be released, despite his club previously voting in a motion to keep names confidential.

As a result, a poor director at Raith Rovers takes his family into protective police custody, and Raith are forced to hire round the clock security after arson threats to their ground.  Finally, in August 2012, McCoist is charged by the SFA for his remarks.  He has decided to challenge the charge and the case is ongoing.

Rangers blame the SFA for not stopping Whyte earlier, despite warnings before he took over from RTC.

“Why did the SFA not investigate when they said they had suspicions before Christmas rather than wait until the club went into administration?

9th May 2012:  American tycoon Bill Miller walks away from a proposed offer for Rangers (IA) after being subjected to threats from the Ibrox crowd and discovering a “30 million black hole” in the Rangers accounts.

11th May 2012: Rangers reveal they will appeal the transfer embargo and fine imposed.  The SFA inexplicably name the 3 man panel that will oversee the decision, going against SFA rules agreed by ALL clubs, including Rangers (IA).

13th May 2012:  Reports suggest Charles Green, backed by a global consortium (still unknown!) has bought shares from Craig Whyte for 2quid.  He is given an exclusivity period to propose a CVA worth 8.5m.

17th May 2012: SFA uphold the transfer embargo against Rangers (IA) .  The SFA state that it was “proportionate to the breach, dissuasive to others and effective in the context of serious misconduct, bringing the game into disrepute.”

The Rangers Fighting Fund along with D&P announces they are paying a lawyer to challenge the SFA in the Court of Session.  SFA say nothing.

22nd May 2012:  It is now May, 3 months since the SFA/SPL announced an investigation into side letters and unauthorized payments to players from Rangers FC.  RTC once again provides evidence of a ‘prima facie’ case by revealing details of Christian Nerlinger’s EBT letters.

23rd May 2012: BBC air a damning documentary revealing details of EBT payments and side letters to Rangers players since 2001.  They also uncover emails showing that D&P’s David Grier seemed to have prior knowledge of the Ticketus deal.  D&P and Craig Whyte threaten legal action, but none is forthcoming.  The BBC also hint at payments made to managers not employed by Rangers at the time, including Graeme Souness.

29th of May 2012:  D&P reveal their ‘CVA’ proposal.  One that was doomed to fail, offering creditors little or nothing.  It also revealed if it was rejected then the ‘assets’ would automatically be sold to Charles Green and Sevco 5088 for just 5.5m (the ‘new’ value of the assets.  No evidence has yet been presented on how these ‘assets’ were valued.)

On the same day (seeing the pattern of bad news being overshadowed by good news yet?) Rangers ‘win’ at the Court of Session, with the court ruling that the SFA had no powers to give a transfer ban.  They decide to refer the decision back to the SFA judicial panel to decide on a new punishment.

Lawyer Gregory Ioannidis remarks:

“If the Scottish Football Association decides to not take action against Rangers, in relation to Rangers submitting the application to the Court of Session, then Fifa can actually penalise the SFA, and the individual club, and the national team of Scotland, and impose an international ban on all of them.”

No action is ever taken by the SFA or FIFA.

12th June 2012:  HMRC release a statement saying that they will reject the CVA.  Given that they have over 25% of the debt, it makes the creditors meeting scheduled for the 14th irrelevant.

“A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover, the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation, so the sale is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route.

“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA.

“Rangers can make a fresh start.”

14th June 2012: The CVA is formally rejected.  D&P immediately sell the assets to Sevco 5088 Ltd and Rangers FC PLC (IA) cease to operate as a football club.   The assets are later assigned to Sevco Scotland Ltd.  SPL rules state that a club that ceases to function as a football club should immediately relinquish its share and membership.  This does not happen.

15th June 2012:  Ian Hart denies being part of the Green consortium buying the Rangers assets.  Green had earlier named him when pushed to name his backers

So starts the misinformation campaign from Sevco.

17th June 2012: Rangers FC are excluded from the fixture list for the forthcoming SPL season, replaced instead by ‘Club 12’.  It is widely reported, that if Sevco Scotland are refused a place in the SPL, then Club 12 will be Dundee.  The SPL give no reasons why.

17th – 27th June 2012: Walter Smith, Allan Stewart and Stephen McKenna, and then John Brown all turn up in the papers making ‘bids’ for the assets which Green has already bought.

22nd June 2012 – Lord Hodge seeks report from D & P re: a potential “conflict of interest”, after information given to him by the BBC.

25th June 2012: The BBC reveal that Sevco Scotland will not be granted admission to the SPL, after 6 clubs publicly declare their opposition, after season ticket sales fail to materialize as fans make their views known.

27th June 2012:  John Brown stands on the steps of Ibrox and pleads with Rangers fans not to buy season tickets until Green reveals who are his backers and who owns Ibrox.  This question remains unanswered.  Brown is now silent.

4th July 2012:  Despite weeks of pressure from the SFA, SPL and MSM, the SPL clubs reject the application from Sevco Scotland to join the SPL.

Stewart Regan warns of Armageddon for Scottish Football if Sevco are not admitted to SFL1 instead.  We are still waiting.

5th July 2012Stenhousemuir reveal details of a talk given to them by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, where SFL clubs are threatened with bankruptcy if they don’t vote Sevco Scotland into Division 1.  Figures presented are ridiculed by the internet bampots.

Clyde and Raith Rovers emerge as the cheerleaders for sporting integrity in the lower leagues, with both clubs openly speaking out against what they describe as “irresponsible”.  Raith Chairman Turnbull Hutton suggests the SFL clubs send their mascots to vote on the proposal for Sevco to enter SFL1.

9th July 2012: the SFA refuse international clearance for players who decided to leave Rangers (IA) when the assets were sold, as were their rights under the TUPE laws.  This decision has yet to be explained, and is contrary to legal advice.

Meanwhile, Sevco director Imran Ahmad, when asked what he felt was the exit price to sell Rangers/Sevco was, replied:

“On a bad day the club is worth £50m.”

Of course, they had just bought the club for just 5.5m, and still had no league place for the forthcoming season.

13th July 2012:  Expiry of deadline for submission of report on D&P conflict of interest.  News suggests that Lord Hodge is on holiday.  No news has been heard since and the administration continues…

13th July 2012: Sevco Scotland are allowed to start life in the 3rd division, subject to gaining an SFA licence, after SFL clubs vote to reject the proposal to allow Sevco Scotland into the 1st division.   There is no sign of Armageddon.

15th July 2012FIFA write to the SFA asking for reasons why former Rangers IA players are having their registration transfer blocked.  The players claim their free agents and have rejected the TUPE arrangements with Green’s new club.  As of August Allan McGregor’s move to Turkey is still onhold as they wait on international clearance.  We await an answer, as we suspect FIFA do to.

24th July 2012: Ian Black signs a 3 year deal with Sevco Scotland.  It is unclear how he is registered or who he is contracted to.

9pm, 27th July 2012:  Just 48 hours before the first scheduled match for Sevco Scotland the SFA grant an unheard of ‘conditional’ membership to Sevco Scotland.  It is reported that Sevco Scotland have agreed to a 12 month transfer embargo, starting on the 1st of September 2012.  They also agree to pay all football debts of Rangers (IA).

Sevco, playing in strips of Rangers (IA) defeat Brechin City in extra time to record their first ever victory.  Ian Black plays as a trialist, despite signing a contract with Sevco Scotland earlier in the week.  It is further unclear whether players are registered to Rangers IA or Sevco Scotland, and if the former, how?

31st July 2012: At an EGM of Rangers FC PLC (IA) the directors change the company name to Rangers 2012 (IA).  At the same time Sevco Scotland pass a resolution to change their name to ‘The Rangers FC Ltd’.  Companies house data shows that Charles Green owns more than 10% of The Rangers FC Ltd, despite his claims that no one person would own more than this.  No one from the MSM thinks to ask this question.

3rd August 2012:  The Rangers FC Ltd are granted full SFA membership, after having the membership of Rangers 2012 (IA) transferred to them.  Under what rules this was possible is not clear.

ESPN follow SKY in agreeing a new deal with the SPL for TV rights.  No sign of Armageddon yet.

15th August 2012: Dundee Utd in a short statement reveal that they have not been paid by Sevco/TRFC for the unpaid debt relating to last season’s Scottish Cup with Rangers (IA).  Despite an agreement with the SFA to pay these debts, Charles Green blames the SPL for going back on a agreement made in May to pay this out of money owed to Rangers (IA).  Dundee Utd, and other European clubs remain unpaid, as does the poor face painter from Glasgow.

It is unclear how the ‘conditional’ membership works if the ‘conditions’ have not been met.  

STV further report that SPL clubs still do not know how much TV cash they are going to get from the new SPL SKY deal.  The SPL make no comment.

17th August 2012: Lord Nimmo Smith is appointed to chair an independent commission into Rangers (IA) making undeclared payments to players from 2001 onwards.  They are unlikely to sit before October.

22nd August 2012: ‘The Rangers’ announce they have signed a joint venture with Sports Direct for the merchandising rights.  Companies House shows that the new company, ‘Rangers Retail’, is owned 100% by SportsDirect.com

23rd August 2012: There is still no word on who are the investors in Sevco Scotland.  The SFA have not released any details to explain how Green passed the fit and proper person test.  No details of proof that Sevco Scotland have the finances to last the season.  The question of where are Ticketus is silent. Lord Hodge has still not returned his findings on a conflict of interest in the appointment of D&P.  The FTT result is still awaited, just like BDO await the liquidation of Rangers 2012 PLC.  Meanwhile, Stewart Regan resurfaces to announce details of league reorganization in time for next season, reducing Scotland to 3 leagues from 4.

Oh… and there is still no signs of Armageddon.

28th August 2012: Campbell Ogilvie finally breaks cover to talk about how league reconstruction was on the agenda long before Rangers ran into problems.  He managed however to proclaim;

To be fair, nobody really saw the situation coming

Yes Campbell… just like you didn’t see the side letters.

—-

StevensanPH is an exiled St.Johnstone fan living in the Philippines – he runs the SaintinAsia blog writing about all aspects of Scottish Football.  Thankfully the MSM don’t sell papers in the Philippines…”

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1,011 Comments so far

AgrajagPosted on11:34 pm - Aug 28, 2012


rab says:
August 28, 2012 at 20:30

What roger also conveniently forgets in his claims that rfc have not been found guilty of anything.

Anyone remember a wee tax case. Im pretty sure they even put their hands up and admitted that one. Was that not a share option thing, was it included in the players contracts, ( was it flo & de boer ) . There is no reason why this is not done and dusted by now as it is not awaiting any findings from HMRC or court judgements.

===========================

There is also the £14m they did not pay in the last year, which actually led to the administration / liquidation.

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Fan ClubPosted on11:37 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Agrajag – you are totally wrong here. I know this point – fact.

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midcalderanPosted on11:40 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Doon the slope says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:33

Midcalderan

“Its so easy to work out who the TD’s are.”
——————————————————–

A statement from the McCoistian school of philosophy? (smile)
———————————-
It really is so easy, just look at some of the extreme post yesterday & today. Let’s focus.

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john clarkePosted on11:41 pm - Aug 28, 2012


A Duck Walks Into A Bar says:
August 28, 2012 at 16:46
‘….Unfortunately, many Celtic fans cannot bring themselves to see the world through the eyes of other fans….’

—–
I think that one of the tremendously beneficial results of this and the RTC blog has been a growing awareness among the Celtic fans who read it and contribute to it, that not every football fan is at heart a ‘The Rangers’ fan.

I freely confess, now as an old man, that right up to the 1980s, I emotionally believed that Scottish football fans in general looked for their own team’s result on a Saturday, and then looked to see how Rangers had done. If their own team had won and Rangers had as well, that was a nice wee double. If their own team had won and Rangers had beaten Celtic, that was a wee treble.And so on and vice-versa.

It was when I came to live in Edinburgh that I began to see that that was not necessarily so.That football loyalties in this country are not ( in the main) determined by the s..tarian divide.

My difficulty over the years, and continuing, is that I think that the SFA and the MSM , or rather, certain influential people in those areas, still work from a s..tarian ( i.e.in this context, anti-atholic) motivation in their readiness to defend the wrongdoing of a particular club and to contrive to protect it from the consequences of its wrongdoing.

And, of course, in doing so, as people now see, they harm the interests of every other club, and destroy the very notion that there can be fair competition and fair opportunity to develope and prosper whether as ‘businesses’ or as focal points for their communities.

Bringing things out into the light, however painful, and dealing with them squarely and honestly, is a prerequisite to getting us back on the right path.

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smallteaserPosted on11:43 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Does anyone know if the footballing debts have been paid yet, mentioned last week then disappeared, do I take that as a no then????
Does anyone know if the 200k fine issued to Craig Whyte by the SFA has been paid yet, I would imagine it has not, has any legal action been taken to recover this money? It was muted sometime ago that this would happen.
Does anyone know what happens to the 160k fine issued to Rangers by the SFA has been paid yet, any of it??? I understand they have been punished enough, but is it the new club or the old club that is being punished??

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AgrajagPosted on11:47 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Fan Club says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:37

Agrajag – you are totally wrong here. I know this point – fact.

=========================

I’m afraid you don’t know what you are talking about and that is entirely clear by what you have written.

The tax is due, the interest is due, the penalties are due. Enforcement of the debt is on hold because of the appeal and more importantly because (at the time) to enforce the debt would have caused an insolvency event. The FTT is an appeal.

You writing “fact” at the end of a sentence doesn’t make you any less wrong.

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BrendaPosted on11:52 pm - Aug 28, 2012


smallteaser

No, no, no and probably no and who knows?

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Fan ClubPosted on11:53 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Agrajag – when did I ever write the tax wasnt due? I wrote they aren’t “guilty”. HMRC raise an assessment, the taxpayer appeals pending litigation. Your “guilty” assessment is patently wrong. The FTT IS an appeal, on that you are
Correct. But it’s an appeal against an assessment, not against a “guilty” verdict.

By your own argument, if HMRC lose the case (which is 99.99% unlikely) then what? HMRC are “guilty” of issuing an incorrect assessment? Not sure what line of work you’re in, but I presume it’s not tax by your imprecise reasoning and understanding of the rules.

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midcalderanPosted on11:53 pm - Aug 28, 2012


5StarsorBehindBars says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:32

midcalderan says:
August 28, 2012 at 22:18
2 2 Rate This

From the Justice website; “First–tier Tribunal (Tax) hears appeals against decisions relating to tax made by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC).” HMRC have made their decision. Your conversational argument is pure speculation; I’m just dealing in facts.
————————————-
5StarsorBehindBars: This only means HMRC has made a decision that a taxpayer does not agree with and the tribunal will decide who is in the right.

It’s just like policeman saying, “your knicked”. It does not mean you are guilty.

These are the facts but let’s not fall out about it. In my mind, they are guilty but it’s not yet official.

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smallteaserPosted on11:56 pm - Aug 28, 2012


campsiejoe says:
August 28, 2012 at 22:54

In the early days of a blog, it is normally better to have fairly heavy moderation
By doing so, you send out a clear message on what is acceptable, and you can therefore set the standard
==============================================================
Joe, I thought this blog was an extension of a previous blog, like The Rangers Tax Case, under a different name, therefore I would not call this early days. Same strip, same ground majority of the same players (sounds familiar).
I do realise that there will be different posters and possibly a different set of readers, like longtimelurker, in my opinion the standard of moderation detracts from the site rather than adds to it.
Please note I am also not a moderator.

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Fan ClubPosted on11:56 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Agrajag – not to get into an argument, but you are wrong to say a taxpayer can’t appeal without first paying the tax. Paying the tax only stops the interest running, it isn’t necessary to pay the tax to appeal. If you are indeed an accountant or in the tax profession, I’d maybe start advising your clients differently.

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Fan ClubPosted on11:58 pm - Aug 28, 2012


Midcalderan @ 23.53 – you are 100% correct.

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willmacufreePosted on12:01 am - Aug 29, 2012


1) You’re at the checkout in the supermarket. The queue behind you is ½ mile long. Your credit card is refused through no fault of your own.

2) You have a perfectly factual post on TSFM. It contains no cusses, no insults. It asks real questions about match officials’ integrity since the 1950s. The post appears for a time, long enough for a reasonable discussion to get underway. Then the post is refused, deleted.

Having experienced both of these, I can tell you the sensation accompanying each event is similar. Neither the lassie on the checkout nor TSFM can say why you’re out on a limb.

The security section at your credit card company will tell you why they have done what they did. So far, TSFM you have not responded in like manner. Why delete the post?. At least respond to the question, please.

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CWPosted on12:02 am - Aug 29, 2012


Anyone noticed how quiet Mark Daly, RTC and Alex Thompson have been lateley ?

Sometimes reading this blog (and RTC’s over the last year or so) makes you realise why some people can ride around in the latest expensive car’s and spend their days in meetings, wearing their Sharp Suits !

I’ve actually fallen out of love with Scottish Football over the last year.

I’ve slowly watched it self-destruct, watched the embarrasment of the the SFA/ SPL and SFL re-juggling the rules to suit themselves. I’ve also watched many people line their own pockets with other peoples hard earned cash (i.e. The new Sevco Supporters !).

The majority of non-sevco fans can see what is happening here.

Mr CG is on a roll with his propaganda, aided and abetted by his newest shareholder (AKA suppossed manager ! – p.s. There must be a Managers Course at Largs on how to manage in the 3rd Div surely ? McCoist seems to have the idea that the long ball away from home will win games. Welcome to the 3rd, mate. Their actually not too bad players ! ).

Then there’s D&P ! I’ve said before, I’m neither a Lawyer nor Accountant, but there is definately something “Fishy” about that company ! I can’t believe they are still actually working in the background even now.

Someone earlier stated they didn’t have much faith in BDO as they also make their money on “Dragging” on cases. I feel the same. What I can’t understand is why HMRC have to outsource a liquidator ? Don’t they have an “In House” Specialist Department, publicly paid, that can “Independantly” look at cases such as this ?

Just seems to be the perfect “Jobs for The Boys”. Isn’t it wonderful how people make money out of other peoples misery ?

Good luck to them, they seem to know their way round the obstacles. I’m beginning to see what we’re up against.

If you’re a hard worker, you’ll accept that you have to pay your dues, and it’s normally deducted from your pay packet via PAYE and NI – You have no choice !

If you’re a Tax Dodger, you can get away with whatever you want, and also walk away with a large profit ! – You have a choice, It’s called “Chancing it”.

Don’t get me started on Benefit Dodgers !

As Ronnie Corbett said, “I know where I stand !”

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john clarkePosted on12:02 am - Aug 29, 2012


StevieBC says:
August 28, 2012 at 22:18

‘In the first instance, Regan could jettison Ogilvie to try and avoid a vote
——-
Unfortunately, Regan is just the monkey. CO is the organ-grinder! Remember, Regan is just a hired hand, his bosses are the SFA Board. It’s more likely that Ogilvie would throw Regan to the lions ( and what about that daft story about the Essex ( non-beancounting) lion) tosave his own skin.

View Comment

nostarsandbarredPosted on12:03 am - Aug 29, 2012


midcalderan says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:53
0 0 Rate This

Ok then… lets just say they’ve been “knicked”… that’s fine. So, can we put them behind bars pending their appeals ? 🙂

View Comment

TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on12:04 am - Aug 29, 2012


@RangersUnite: Full statement now available: http://t.co/LmRoF3mJ

Disappointed this hasn’t been pulled apart …… Yet!

View Comment

AgrajagPosted on12:08 am - Aug 29, 2012


Fan Club says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:53

Agrajag – when did I ever write the tax wasnt due? I wrote they aren’t “guilty”.

=========================

They are guilty of underpaying tax. That is the way it works.

HMRC examine records and where appropriate issue assessments. As the tax collecting authority that is part of their remit.

If your argument is based on semantics, which it clearly is, then guilty is not limited to it’s criminal meaning. I am currently guilty of wasting my time replying to someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about.

Rangers are equally guilty of underpaying tax in relation to.

1, The shares options

2, The EBT payments

3, The PAYE and VAT that the didn’t remit over the last year.

Maybe other things which we aren’t currently aware of.

View Comment

smallteaserPosted on12:09 am - Aug 29, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:04

Point 5 an absolute belter.

Opposition to the liquidation of Rangers Oldco!!!

View Comment

john clarkePosted on12:13 am - Aug 29, 2012


A Duck Walks Into A Bar says:
August 28, 2012 at 16:46
—-
Off topic, but your blog name brings the warmest memories of a joke my son (now in Australia ) told me about a black swan. It was new to me, and I thought it (without drink taken!) very clever and funny.

View Comment

smallteaserPosted on12:13 am - Aug 29, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:04

There is a bun fight going on at RM concerning this seems to be a bit of an argument over where money is going!!!

View Comment

Fan ClubPosted on12:16 am - Aug 29, 2012


Agrajag – again, your comments are incorrect. Whilst RFC are not “guilty” of underpaying tax in relation to the EBT (and I never said anything equating guilt to criminality) they will undoubtedly in the fullness of time be found to have grossly incorrectly and perhaps negligently have operated the EBT scheme. You think you are right, I disagree. I will not convince you otherwise so let’s agree to disagre.

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midcalderanPosted on12:21 am - Aug 29, 2012


Agrajag says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:47

Fan Club says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:37
————————
Agrajag,: I don’t think what you say is correct. A debt can only be recovered when the debt is established. This won’t happen until the FTT(T) make their decision.

Don’t waste your energy on this, focus on what has still to come.

View Comment

AgrajagPosted on12:27 am - Aug 29, 2012


midcalderan says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:21

————————
Agrajag,: I don’t think what you say is correct. A debt can only be recovered when the debt is established

——————————-

Issue of a tax assessment by HMRC establishes the debt and it is enforceable at that point.

You not thinking that is correct doesn’t change the fact that it is.

HMRC are the UK tax collecting and enforcement authority. People can obviously appeal their assessments, but until the FTT rules that the assessment is wrong then it is an established debt.

The default position at the start of a tribunal is that the tax is due. It is up to the appellant, on a balance of probabilities, to prove that it isn’t.

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AgrajagPosted on12:29 am - Aug 29, 2012


Fan Club says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:16
I will not convince you otherwise so let’s agree to disagre.

======================

Let’s not, you are wrong.

View Comment

miki67Posted on12:36 am - Aug 29, 2012


Fan Club says:
August 28, 2012 at 19:35
 6 24 Rate This
Hoopy7 – Jim Delahvnt summed it up quite nicely tonight and it’s the same opinion of mine – it’s not that a football club’s history doesn’t matter, it’s just that it doesn’t particularly interest him. It’s not a debate I’m really interested in either as fans on each side are arguing (in their minds) black is white and vice-versa. The people who have an opinion are unlikely to change it. If RFC “claim” oldco’s history I don’t think there is anything legally anyone can do. The SFA may recognise the history or they may not but RFC may celebrate that history anyway. In Rangers’ fans mind they will always be RFC. Other people quite reasonably disagree. At the end of the day, if the matter ever gets resolved, I think you’ll find the matter largely irrelevant whatever the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
Aye…….go right ahead and ‘claim’ it. Then watch as BDO and HMRC descend like two ‘irrelevant’ thunderbolts and ascribe oldco’s debts to newco and rip the ST money right out of CG’s account/safe/black bag….whatever and put it in the creditor’s pot. At the same time they’ll ‘irrelevantly’ sell off Ibrox etc.,. to help settle the debt.
Of course,some,in their arrogance and flatulent sense of entitlement may just regard the creditors and ALL the cheated clubs as minor irritants,’irrelevances’ to be swept aside.
Staggering hubris. Beware the obverse.

View Comment

CWPosted on12:36 am - Aug 29, 2012


Agrajag says:

August 29, 2012 at 00:29

Rate This

Fan Club says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:16
I will not convince you otherwise so let’s agree to disagre.

======================

Let’s not, you are wrong.
——————————————————————————————————–

Boy’s, give it a break. Time for bed said Zebedee ! Let’s re-convene in the morning.

Good night all !

View Comment

miki67Posted on12:38 am - Aug 29, 2012


Fan Club:

Aye…….go right ahead and ‘claim’ it. Then watch as BDO and HMRC descend like two ‘irrelevant’ thunderbolts and ascribe oldco’s debts to newco and rip the ST money right out of CG’s account/safe/black bag….whatever and put it in the creditor’s pot. At the same time they’ll ‘irrelevantly’ sell off Ibrox etc.,. to help settle the debt.
Of course,some,in their arrogance and flatulent sense of entitlement may just regard the creditors and ALL the cheated clubs as minor irritants,’irrelevances’ to be swept aside.
Staggering hubris. Beware the obverse.

View Comment

Galling fiverPosted on12:38 am - Aug 29, 2012


If Fan Club was right, there would still be OldRangers, and you would not be being pedantic over the use of the word guilty.

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miki67Posted on12:40 am - Aug 29, 2012


In moderation ……again. For what,this time? Beyond me. No proscribed words. Nothing compared to sevco apologists. Confused. Aye.

Mod Comment: It is approved now. You had a banned word in it so wordpress will automatically send it to moderation.

View Comment

midcalderanPosted on12:42 am - Aug 29, 2012


5StarsorBehindBars says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:03

midcalderan says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:53

Ok then… lets just say they’ve been “knicked”… that’s fine. So, can we put them behind bars pending their appeals ?
——————–
No! They’ve got to be found guilty first before you can put them behind bars. If it was a criminal matter, we could put “the club” on remand but could the Bar L cope with 50,000 “club” members? Oh, that’s me away again, is it the club or the company.

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on12:42 am - Aug 29, 2012


Guys… just to be upfront I am one of the moderators – but I was asleep last night so it wasnt me!

However, looking through the deleted posts I can fully understand why they were deleted. TSFM posted a few days ago on the previous thread to avoid talk about refereeing decisions. This blog needs to deal in facts – not opinions on refereeing decisions. The discussion started on the ‘decision’ and it was stopped the minute a moderator saw it. I can’t see any other post deleted last night that wasn’t about that subject.

There is plenty of forums for Scottish football where you can discuss dodgy refereeing decisions – even my blog (shameless plug 🙂 ) has a thread running on a recent article about the refereeing situation. One day maybe it will become a topic on this blog – but only after some of the WAY more serious issues have been solved.

I like self moderation, and sometimes a nudge in the right direction is all that is needed, but the ‘nudge’ last night didn’t work so TSFM was left with no option. There is no agenda. Nobody gets banned. I posted on RTC for months and months without one thing making it through moderation. I still post here from time to time and find it goes to moderation – wordpress is a law upon itself sometimes. Don’t get disheartened if something you post disappears – its not personal.

Lets stop wasting valuable typing time on arguing – Back to the timeline…

Where did the money go?
Where is the money coming from?
Why are Regan and Doncaster still in a job?

Those questions go to the heart of the corruption. Dodgy refereeing decisions do not.

View Comment

Fan ClubPosted on12:42 am - Aug 29, 2012


Agrajag – you are now deviating from your original point. I didn’t disagree that RFChave an unpaid assessment. I disagreed with your point that they are guilty of underpaying taxin relation to the EBT assessment. It’s a subtle difference that either you don’t see or can’t admit when you’re not right. If it makes you feel better, I’ll just say you are correct but you come across with quite a closed outlook which mirrors your view on how you feel about rangers. As an RFC fan, I am quite happy to listen to and agree with arguments and reasoning from both sets of fans. I don’t close off my opinions because they are from non-RFCfans. The purpose of this blog is to work together to shed light. Not engage in one up manship. If I was wrong I would happily admit it.

RFC will lose the case. On that we can hopefully agree!

View Comment

TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on12:45 am - Aug 29, 2012


smallteaser on August 29, 2012 at 00:09

The penny doth drop me thinks

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A ExpertPosted on12:46 am - Aug 29, 2012


smallteaser says:
August 28, 2012 at 20:55

s

Why does Gordon Smith get any airtime whatsoever?
This is a guy who wrote in his book that there was “an agenda against Rangers”.
This was while he was CEO of the SFA.
This hardly makes him a neutral.
He was Director of Football at Rangers while Craig Whyte was in charge.
To date he has used the “no knowledge” and “I didn’t know” excuse to many questions regarding Rangers.
What makes him wanted by the media, what does he know about them that they feel the need to employ him?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think its because the “talent” pool of the Scottish MSM is so shallow the best they can get is people like Smith etc

View Comment

john clarkePosted on12:55 am - Aug 29, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:04
‘@RangersUnite: Full statement now available: http://t.co/LmRoF3mJ

Disappointed this hasn’t been pulled apart …… Yet!..’
—-
Copland Road Organisation. God Almighty, what a farrago of inconsequential, incoherent cretinous nonsense they write.

A disturbing reference, however, to Supporters Direct.
What in God’s name were they doing even to talk those eejits? We need to find out a little more, I think, of their involvement with such a bunch.

View Comment

ekt1mPosted on12:59 am - Aug 29, 2012


To all posters- Guilty/Not Guilty verdicts are restricted to criminal law, in Civil law you are found liable or not liable. (taxation comes under civil law).

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on1:00 am - Aug 29, 2012


Blacknight/Smallteaser… wow.

How exactly are they going to object to the liquidation? Are they going to pay the debts? Seems to be a bit of a split forming among supporters groups.

View Comment

TedPosted on1:03 am - Aug 29, 2012


Why are the Govanites showing at the bottom of their adverts ” Rangers then” , “Rangers now” , “Rangers forever”. Pravda never behaved in this manner!

View Comment

RayCharlezPosted on1:03 am - Aug 29, 2012


The debate about Rangers and their “guilt” is an old one.

RTC spent a lot of time pointing out the differences between a case at a Tax Tribunal and a case at a criminal court.

To recap for those who missed it.

According to RTC, HMRC could have chosen to pursue this matter through the criminal courts as the actions of certain people in charge of RFC could be construed as tax evasion.

If they had done so then the people concerned would have been charged by the police.

And just like Harry Redknapp, they would be innocent until proven guilty in a criminal court.

As RTC was at pains to point out, one of the reasons HMRC pursued the matter through the tribunal system was because the reverse is true in a tax case such as this.

Rangers have been found guilty of avoiding tax by HMRC and have been presented with a bill for the amount due.

Rangers have appealed and the onus is now on them to prove they are innocent.

Unlike a criminal court, the ‘prosecution’ don’t have to prove their case.

The HMRC bill stands as “fact” unless the lawyers for Murray Group can prove it isn’t.

This is a crucial distinction and one that was clearly laid out by RTC on several occasions.

Rangers are guilty of tax avoidance until such time as an appeal court rules them innocent.

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miki67Posted on1:06 am - Aug 29, 2012


I’m not being funny here. Seriously,can we have alist of the ‘banned’/proscibed words? I mean,apart from the obvious. Then,the appropriate self-editing can occur.
Ta.

Mod comment: Re: banned words need to be kept secret IMO to stop trolls posting and just adding stars/etc to beat the filter. The ‘word’ you used wasn’t banned, but it contained a banned word. Look at ‘Thunderbolt’ and try and work it out…

PS – lets keep discussion on this off this page so as to not kill the discussion. you can ask the questions on the contact page comments if need be…

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midcalderanPosted on1:11 am - Aug 29, 2012


Agrajag, are you Chris Graham?

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midcalderanPosted on1:20 am - Aug 29, 2012


EKtim says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:59
0 0 Rate This
To all posters- Guilty/Not Guilty verdicts are restricted to criminal law, in Civil law you are found liable or not liable. (taxation comes under civil law).
—————————-
Agreed.

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on1:46 am - Aug 29, 2012


john clarke says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:02

StevieBC says:
August 28, 2012 at 22:18

‘In the first instance, Regan could jettison Ogilvie to try and avoid a vote
——-
Unfortunately, Regan is just the monkey. CO is the organ-grinder! Remember, Regan is just a hired hand, his bosses are the SFA Board. It’s more likely that Ogilvie would throw Regan to the lions ( and what about that daft story about the Essex ( non-beancounting) lion) tosave his own skin.
===========
If that is indeed the reality – then Regan is even more unaware/stupid than I thought !

So Ogilvie will leave only when it suits his own, personal agenda.

Perhaps to take up a UEFA post as someone else suggested earlier ?

And then Regan will be left to take the flak before he is turfed out ?

Regan must have low career expectations post-SFA.

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RayCharlezPosted on1:48 am - Aug 29, 2012


Yes, this is correct. RFC(IA) are liable unless they can prove that they are not.

At this moment in time, RFC are liable for the money owed to HMRC due to the Big Tax Case.

If the FTT(T) finds in their favour then RFC(IA) will not be liable for the sum due.

So you are absolutely right.

However I think it is fair to say that, at this moment in time, RFC(IA) are guilty of being liable for the sum due.

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on1:53 am - Aug 29, 2012


Anyone see this posted by David Stoker of Livingston on twitter.

http://via.me/-4j9adnk

Basically, if a 1st division club plays an SPL under 21 they get 500gbp per match. If they play their own under 21’s they only get 200gbp per match!!!

Seriously – why has no one raised a vote of no confidence in the SFA yet?

View Comment

miki67Posted on2:00 am - Aug 29, 2012


Mind clearer. Sleep. Peace. Tomorrow is another day in the battle for the soul of Scottish Football. Keep up the good fight. And I include all decent fans of t’rangers…..coz I know you are there. You’d rather win,lose.or draw in a fair game. I know that. So,take your club back,make amends and end this now….or we’ll all have nothing in the end.

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Ordinary FanPosted on2:27 am - Aug 29, 2012


Listening to SSB again tonight, the panel were “shocked” that supporters (they fail to mention that plenty of people who have no interest in football) are angry that RFC Tribute Act are claiming to be RFC, and are attempting to carry on as if nothing has happened. And all the while they are shrugging off £130 million of debt, tens of millions of which is tax payers money as if it is nothing important. I don’t understand how those people who have been involved in Scottish football for decades between them, from media to the top of the SFA , are not angry. The game has become a farce. The past decade of SPL football is corrupted, the SFL has now been corrupted and RFC Tribute Act have been told, very clearly and extensively by Regan and Doncaster that they are all that matters, that without them the WHOLE of Scottish football from top to bottom is unsustainable and will face a slow lingering death. They have practically given RFC Tribute Act the go ahead to ignore any footballing rules that might impede or stop them from doing whatever it takes. The idea that men so closely involved with the game find it so easy to say “let’s draw a line under it” is a sad indictment of Scottish football.

View Comment

alan280170Posted on4:20 am - Aug 29, 2012


Ordinary Fan says:
August 29, 2012 at 02:27
2 0 Rate This
Listening to SSB again tonight, the panel were “shocked” that supporters (they fail to mention that plenty of people who have no interest in football) are angry that RFC Tribute Act are claiming to be RFC, and are attempting to carry on as if nothing has happened. And all the while they are shrugging off £130 million of debt, tens of millions of which is tax payers money as if it is nothing important. I don’t understand how those people who have been involved in Scottish football for decades between them, from media to the top of the SFA , are not angry. The game has become a farce. The past decade of SPL football is corrupted, the SFL has now been corrupted and RFC Tribute Act have been told, very clearly and extensively by Regan and Doncaster that they are all that matters, that without them the WHOLE of Scottish football from top to bottom is unsustainable and will face a slow lingering death. They have practically given RFC Tribute Act the go ahead to ignore any footballing rules that might impede or stop them from doing whatever it takes. The idea that men so closely involved with the game find it so easy to say “let’s draw a line under it” is a sad indictment of Scottish football.

————————————————————————-

SSB gives me the creeps, listen on my Itunes (in Asia), it is full of bampots and true believers, then there’s the callers. I squirm at some of the pap they speak.

View Comment

stunneyPosted on4:25 am - Aug 29, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-supporters-group-slams-duff-phelps-over-3-3m-fees-1-2492661

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on4:28 am - Aug 29, 2012


Ok – I admit defeat in the McCoist knowing the names thing. Have edited – agree fully if we can’t support with facts we shouldn’t be publishing it, so edited to reflect this.

I am now off to send my resume to the Daily Record – I believe I now qualify as I have proved I can print pish too! 🙂

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Danish PastryPosted on4:28 am - Aug 29, 2012


Sepia says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:01

So far, TSFM you have not responded in like manner. Why delete the post?. At least respond to the question, please.
—————————-

I saw this yesterday Sepia:

——————-
TSFM says:
August 28, 2012 at 18:42
 56 6 Rate This
Folks,
Please desist with the referee thread – specifically the bit where it is stated as “fact” that they are cheats. There is enough to discuss here without the embarassment factor creeping in.

Take it to a fan site where people are happy to talk about it.
——————-

View Comment

jonnyodPosted on7:18 am - Aug 29, 2012


Talking of SSB
I heard G Smith trying to convince the listeners that 2012 fc are the same as ragers .
A caller asked if they were the same ,why were 2012 fc not able to play in Europe for 3 yrs
Smith said it was because the company lost the Uefa licence and had to re-apply .
Now maybe it’s me but are Uefa in the habit of issueing football licences to PLCs or is it only PLCs that are FOOTBALL clubs and the licence is for the said CLUB to play FOOTBALL in europe .

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Lord WobblyPosted on7:23 am - Aug 29, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
August 29, 2012 at 00:04
4 0 Rate This
@RangersUnite: Full statement now available: http://t.co/
LmRoF3mJ

Disappointed this hasn’t been pulled apart …… Yet!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That link wouldn’t work for me. Here’s another for anyone with the same problem.

http://www.rangersunite.com/rangersunite-statement-28-august/

http://www.rangersunite.com/

PS. TBK. Where have you been?

View Comment

Ordinary FanPosted on8:19 am - Aug 29, 2012


Rangers Unite(d)? Irony.

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Hoopy 7Posted on8:21 am - Aug 29, 2012


Duff & Phelps is charging a total of £3.3million for its services – £3.18million for six months’ work, £104,608 for proposing the CVA and £42,760 prior to administration.

This is shocking and hopefully Lord Hodge will be all over this report.

As for work prior to administration, this is simply not allowable. You can only claim from the date of the appointment. If this sum was incurred for advice to Whyte it proves that they were conflicted, moreover it is a clear fraudulent preference as any work done by them prior to administration would have to rank with the ordinary creditors.

I doubt whether these fees will be approved and I suspect that BDO will claw them back if they have been paid.

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BrendaPosted on8:26 am - Aug 29, 2012


Just listened to SSB again I know, I know once is usually more than enough but G Smith………. The guy does not have one clue he sat and squirmed and lied his way through those 2hrs with dela**nt saving his ass on a number of occasions and wee Roger’s mike stopped working lol love it………… Dawwell tonight fun times ahead!!!!!

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yakutsukiPosted on8:38 am - Aug 29, 2012


What’s with the avatars?

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yakutsukiPosted on8:39 am - Aug 29, 2012


…….and how did you know to give me a bald one? Uncanny.

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celtic1967Posted on8:41 am - Aug 29, 2012


smallteaser says:
August 28, 2012 at 20:55

s

Why does Gordon Smith get any airtime whatsoever?
This is a guy who wrote in his book that there was “an agenda against Rangers”.
This was while he was CEO of the SFA.
This hardly makes him a neutral.
He was Director of Football at Rangers while Craig Whyte was in charge.
To date he has used the “no knowledge” and “I didn’t know” excuse to many questions regarding Rangers.
What makes him wanted by the media, what does he know about them that they feel the need to employ him?
***************************************************************************************************************

Could it be that intellect, knowledge, honesty and fairness are capacities outwith Gordon Smith’s universe? I’d rather listen to the wisdom of my grandchild’s rabbit than what he has to say.

That this man once had responsibility in the highest echelon of Scotland’s football administration is possibly the most damning aspect of what has been so woefullly wrong with the game in this country. People like him, with utterly questionable skills and credentials to fulfil the requirements of the post, have been slotted in by the prevailing….. what shall I say…..structure! Same old, same old!

Unfortunately, people of his calibre occur far too often in the SFA and other ranks and we can never move on unless this set up is completely reformed and said undue influences neutralised.

View Comment

diamondtimPosted on8:45 am - Aug 29, 2012


As to wether The Rangers is the same club or a brand new club, I think it’s worth looking at the club website. I have pasted in the history and at the top the wording is very clever “A list of honours that Rangers has won as a club and records set by teams past and present”. Why does it not say Honours as it used to or as any other club wesite (including Celtic). Also I noticed the 5 stars were removed on Sunday and apparently hidden on the sleeve in a dark colour. why remove 5 proud white stars from shirt unless they have been instructed to do so. It will be worth keeping an eye on history if the win the ramsdens cup.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/trophy-room

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longtimelurkerPosted on8:46 am - Aug 29, 2012


longtimelurker says:
August 28, 2012 at 22:23
13 14 Rate This
SFM: Removed for abuse, language etc

************************************************************************************************************************

Since you removed my post (s) please point out where it was abusive and to whom?

This blog has turned into the on-line equivalent of the daily record.

Good news ensures hvns buy the paper bad news drives Celtic supporters away so is that what this blog is now trying to do, mirror the record? Pun intended BTW.

Comment from Stevensanph: Looking at the deleted post you used the ‘S’ word. Come on guys – please? Trying to beat the word filter is going to get your post deleted. I posted this earlier on
http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/the-rangers-saga-as-it-happened/comment-page-13/#comment-7181-

Come on guys – there is WAY better things to discuss than moderators and referees. Like:

Lord Hodge Report
D&P taking 60k a week AFTER selling everything
Player registrations
The players Rangers are signing – who is their agent?
The mysterious disappearing mg06 that was posted about a few days ago…

Lets stay focused!

View Comment

WOTTPIPosted on9:10 am - Aug 29, 2012


john clarke says:
August 28, 2012 at 23:41

I think that one of the tremendously beneficial results of this and the RTC blog has been a growing awareness among the Celtic fans who read it and contribute to it, that not every football fan is at heart a ‘The Rangers’ fan.

I freely confess, now as an old man, that right up to the 1980s, I emotionally believed that Scottish football fans in general looked for their own team’s result on a Saturday, and then looked to see how Rangers had done. If their own team had won and Rangers had as well, that was a nice wee double. If their own team had won and Rangers had beaten Celtic, that was a wee treble.And so on and vice-versa.

It was when I came to live in Edinburgh that I began to see that that was not necessarily so.That football loyalties in this country are not ( in the main) determined by the s..tarian divide.

___________________________________________________________________________

Would I be correct is saying that during the SPL era, if you were not at your team’s game the result checking routine for many fans was:-

1 You own team’s result
2 You traditional or closest enemy’s result – hoping they had gone down to give you local bragging rights
3 A quick look to see if Rangers and Celtic had dropped points to keep alive the faintest of hopes your team may be in with a shout for 2nd place and if they won (especially if it were close at half time) who scored the injury time goal/penalty.
4 Your favourite EPL or continental club

View Comment

AngusPosted on9:26 am - Aug 29, 2012


WOTTPI says:
August 29, 2012 at 09:10

Would I be correct is saying that during the SPL era, if you were not at your team’s game the result checking routine for many fans was:-

——

Personally:

1. Own team’s result.
2. Teams immediately above and below in the League table. Quick calculation to see if own team had managed to move from their now traditional position of 9th in the table. 🙂
3. Generally ignore (ex)OF results unless involved in 1 and 2 above.

View Comment

WOTTPIPosted on9:30 am - Aug 29, 2012


Re Gordon Smith.

I must admit that a few years back as a Radio Scotland Pundit I thought he did ok. Listening to games he seemed to have a grasp of the game and made good calls on the need to switch tactics and make substitutions, who was going to be coming off in tens time etc.

When he got the SFA job I thought it was worth giving him a chance as he appeared to have experience in various aspects of the game and apparently had backed this all up by gaining some business experience following his playing days and actually having a Degree in Business.

From Glasgow Caledonian Uni Web site
“Gordon Duffield Smith is a former professional football player who played for Rangers and Brighton & Hove Albion. After retiring as a player, he worked as a football agent and BBC football pundit before being appointed chief executive of the Scottish Football Association in 2007, a post he held until his resignation on 19 April 2010. Smith is currently the director of football of Rangers FC. Gordon graduated from Glasgow College of Technology in 1977 with a BA in Business Studies.”

He seemed to be offering a fresh approach to the old blazers who had been around for decades.

All that being said he now just reminds me of an old boss who was a smooth operator, wore nice suits, spoke well in that Clinton/Obama type way and sounded impressive. However when you listened to it in any depth a lot of it was bluster and full of aspirational but wholly impractical ideas.

Many who knew this old boss better than I claimed most of his post graduate qualifications were cobbled together from the works of others and research undertaken by undergraduates.

These guys shift around from job to job before they are found out and often leave a trail of destruction in their path before going of to charm another set of mugs.

Maybe that is why Smith is still getting a pundits job because it is perhaps the only thing he is half decent at. (I know, there will those who say he is rubbish at that too).

Given his apparent SSB comments on ‘club v company’ maybe its time for a refresher course on the Business Degree?

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WOTTPIPosted on9:34 am - Aug 29, 2012


Angus says:
August 29, 2012 at 09:26

4. A check on Div 1 to see who might take your SPL place and who the main opposition could be for the following season 🙂

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Paul McConvillePosted on9:37 am - Aug 29, 2012


In which I look at what Duff and Phelps have cost the creditors of Rangers, and what they have been spending time on since they sold off all the assets in June.

I also take a very “broad axe” approach to the value of the administration process, which seems to suggest that the creditors would have been several million pounds better off if the liquidators had come in on 14th February!

The figures are mind-boggling.

That applies to each of the total costs, the weekly bills, the hourly rates charged, and the amount of time spent on this job.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/rangers-administrators-billing-over-60k-per-week-since-selling-all-rfc-assets/

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CEPosted on9:39 am - Aug 29, 2012


Lord Wobbly on August 29, 2012 at 07:23

Yeah, thanks M’lud, I couldn’t get TBK’s link to work either.

Steven, if you’ve corrected factually inaccurate information, that pretty much rules you out for a job at the DR! With regards McCoist and the timeline, I would remove any mention of him issuing an ‘apology’, as AmcC himself has admitted it shouldn’t have been interpreted as an apology.

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arabest1Posted on9:43 am - Aug 29, 2012


The following is from yesterday’s DR, (I lifted it from a fans forum, as I do not want anyone clicking on their website)

‘Arabs make a mockery of claim they can push Hoops all the way

DUNDEE UNITED failed to put a credible challenge to Kilmarnock, let alone being up to beat Celtic.

THEY swaggered into Rugby Park on Saturday feeling for all the world like title contenders.

If they had any sense of decency or shame they would have left by the back door. Shuffling out with blankets over their heads.

Dundee United’s players may well bounce back quickly from this horrendous and embarrassing capitulation but the black mark it leaves against their names will take a long while to disappear. When they wanted to be taken seriously they ended up being laughed out of town.

In fact, the very fact they crashed so spectacularly merely underlines why neither they, not anyone else for that matter, can be considered capable of making a genuine fist of challenging Celtic for the big one this season.

Painfully, this was the day Peter Houston’s players were exposed as frauds. It didn’t take long did it?

But even though the manager always knew his group was neither strong nor experienced enough to go the distance at the top, even Houston will be horrified at the way they disintegrated on what, for 45 mind-numbing minutes, had been shaping up as a wholly unremarkable afternoon.

United had been given the big billing all week but Houston’s star turns failed to turn up. Not even the wonderfully gifted Johnny Russell, who was cleared to play after the club stumped up a grand to have his derby-day red card overturned. Stephen Thompson might as well have kept his hand in his pocket because Russell was one of a host of United players who looked as if he would rather be anywhere else.

They had travelled all this way just to go through the motions but the lack of dynamism and spark about their play was, it must be said, almost what their paltry support deserved.

Yes, there was something despairing about the fact Houston’s league leaders could hardly muster a couple of coachloads to follow them down the road from Tayside.

And the apathy was catching because not one of Houston’s most exciting performers looked remotely bothered about putting on a show for those who did. They appeared to believe they could defeat Kilmarnock without having to try and for 45 minutes they probably had a point because the home side were pretty awful too.

Granted, Kilmarnock were not helped by a sickening early injury to the usually excellent Gary Harkins, who had to be carefully carried off just 12 minutes in after being knocked out cold by Gavin Gunning.

But even despite this loss – and allowing for the eccentricities of a manager who likes to stick two fingers up at convention – Kilmarnock lacked any kind of structure or cutting edge throughout this turgid test of patience. Little Rory McKenzie was left to lead the attack on his own with occasional back-up from Borja Perez and Harkins’ replacement Jude Winchester. By half-time there was no sign at all that this trio were about to click into match-winning action.

Then again no one could have known what was about to come, least of all Houston. If he wasn’t so personally involved in it all he may even have seen the funny side because the way United handed this contest over to their hosts was comical. In fact, it was hysterical.

They had only just escaped from the dressing room when they took it in turns to self-harm. It began bewilderingly when young left-back Barry Douglas suffered a brain melt inside his own penalty area, running with the ball right across the face of his own six-yard box.

To add to the farce of it all, keeper Radoslaw Cierzniak gawped on with an ever slackening jaw as Douglas came closer and closer until the pair of them froze together, each waiting for the other to do something.

And as they malfunctioned little McKenzie nipped in to nudge the ball home from a couple of yards out. It was a cringeworthy concession but the Kilmarnock youngster felt no shame as he raced away to celebrate his first senior goal while stifling his laughter.

But before the s******ing had died down United’s suicide squad struck for a second time, when the ever so disappointing Gary Mackay-Steven capped his own lacklustre display by sliding into a clumsy tackle on Danny Racchi and sending the Englishman sprawling inside the box. It was such a stonewall penalty not even ref Crawford Allan, who was missing a great deal of what was going on, could fail to spot it. New boy Perez stroked home from 12 yards to reduce United to a blundering, quivering shambles.

At the back Gunning, Douglas and even the usually reliable Sean Dillon were now taking it in turns to traumatise their team-mates and keeper Cierzniak in particular.

Between them they lost an excruciating sloppy third goal from a Racchi corner when Irish youngster Winchester pounced to slam home at Cierzniak’s back post and complete a devastating 10-minute collapse.

And it could have got worse. There was one moment, 72 minutes in, that summed up United’s dysfunctional United display. First Douglas clumsily gave up possession to McKenzie around the halfway line. Dillon moved across to clear up only for his legs to give way and allow McKenzie to charge forward unchallenged.

Then when he hit the 18-yard line Gunning generously waved him through and invited him to take a crack at goal. Cierzniak made the save but United were beyond help now. Well, almost.

With 12 minutes to go Kilmarnock defender Michael Nelson appeared to take pity when he got down on both knees to allow a cross from Douglas to swing into the danger area.

Jon Daly controlled it and slotted home but this was not even a consolation for Houston who was still simmering as he made his way on to the team bus.

He knows his United are much better than this. But they’re not half as good as they think are.
_______________________________________________

Wow! Quite a piece for a run of the mill league game, 4 matches into a league season!

Keith ‘Journo of the year’ Jackson seems a tad upset about something. Just who is his target audience here? 😉 Why such vitriol? Is this the beginnings of the promised retribution to the ‘fly wee kickers’ who had the audacity to lobby for the application of the rules? or asked to be paid money due for a cup tie? Maybe I’m paranoid or just a little sensitive?

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AngusPosted on9:52 am - Aug 29, 2012


WOTTPI says:
August 29, 2012 at 09:34

4. A check on Div 1 to see who might take your SPL place and who the main opposition could be for the following season
——
Aye. Plus a quick check of those Div 1 teams to make sure their stadium isn’t up to SPL standard. 🙂

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Charlie BrownPosted on9:58 am - Aug 29, 2012


Why are Regan & Doncaster & Ogilvie still in a job?

Because it suits our major clubs for them to still be there, whilst some of the smaller clubs who voted against the parachute plot called for their removal not one single SPL club or person that I’ve seen has demanded they be punted either immediately or soon.

I think the sad truth is that most or many of the SPL clubs actually supported the parachute plot amongst other things and whilst the 3 stooges remain in position they take the heat & flak & spotlight away from where it perhaps it should be focused? or would focus next?

If the leaders of our SPL clubs wanted any or all of the 3 stooges removed then they would be calling for and activating motions to have them removed. So why don’t they?

Because it suits them better to have them inside the tents pissing out that outside the tent pissing in and perhaps speaking more freely and openly than they can now whilst they are effectively employed by the member clubs.

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smallteaserPosted on10:04 am - Aug 29, 2012


Arabest says:
August 29, 2012 at 09:43

Keith ‘Journo of the year’ Jackson seems a tad upset about something. Just who is his target audience here? Why such vitriol? Is this the beginnings of the promised retribution to the ‘fly wee kickers’ who had the audacity to lobby for the application of the rules? or asked to be paid money due for a cup tie? Maybe I’m paranoid or just a little sensitive?
==============================================================
Guess which team beat his coupon on Saturday?. ( same here)

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Danish PastryPosted on10:06 am - Aug 29, 2012


WOTTPI says:
August 29, 2012 at 09:30
 3 0 Rate This
Re Gordon Smith.

I must admit that a few years back as a Radio Scotland Pundit I thought he did ok. Listening to games he seemed to have a grasp of the game and made good calls on the need to switch tactics and make substitutions, who was going to be coming off in tens time etc.

When he got the SFA job I thought it was worth giving him a chance as he appeared to have experience in various aspects of the game and apparently had backed this all up by gaining some business experience following his playing days and actually having a Degree in Business …
————-

WOTTPI,
That sums up how I saw him too, though as you infer he’s come out of this with what looks like blue cow manure all over him. Last night on Clyde1 he sounded like an ill-informed fan, at best. As I sat listening I simply could not understand how he could ever have been the big cheese at the SFA.

If he is indicative of the level of insight that the current SFA bosses have you can understand why it’s all gone so pear-shaped.

To his credit he’s one of the few who’s resigned rather than cling onto the job for dear life.

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CEPosted on10:17 am - Aug 29, 2012


Thanks for lifting that DR article, is it for real?

Wow, is that seriously the work of Jangle in the DR? I thought it was a piss take? He’s absolutely seething about something! 🙂

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willmacufreePosted on10:21 am - Aug 29, 2012


Danish Pastry says: August 29, 2012 at 04:28
I saw this yesterday Sepia:
——————-
TSFM says:
August 28, 2012 at 18:42
56 6 Rate This
Folks,
Please desist with the referee thread – specifically the bit where it is stated as “fact” that they
are cheats. There is enough to discuss here without the embarassment factor creeping in.
Take it to a fan site where people are happy to talk about it.
_______________________________________________________________________

Danish,

Thanks for the message. I posted my bit about three hours ahead of TSFM stricture, so was too early to comply. I don’t think I stated as fact that referees are cheats. I did say it was my final attempt to get TSFM to monitor on-the-pitch decisions.

My concern is that regardless of any reforms brought about by all this to SFA, SPL etc., they’ll be useless without monitoring and reconstituting the whole match official set up. No other site has the clout.

Nice to talk to you. I enjoy your posts.

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