The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’ had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.
The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.
I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.
However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.
We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.
We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.
We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.
Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.
Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.
If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.
We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?
TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.
Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).
If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.
But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.
The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.
As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.
For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.
We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.
One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.
The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.
By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.
We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.
Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.
exfallhoose2012 says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 13:11
___________________________________
RE: Private Eye
They also seem to suggest it was the Big Tax Case that did for Rangers but surely, though the BTC must have been a factor, perhaps the last straw, it couldn’t have had that effect if Rangers hadn’t already been owing Lloyds Bank close on £28m and were losing £8m a year plus the wee tax case (note the lower case) and a variety of other stuff including a lot to other clubs.
I suppose this was a case of cutting and simplifying because they figure it’s only a minor story and only gets a tiny bit of space but it does give a slant that MSM up here and Sevco would agree with.
Another spurious link from KDS?.
There was also a Bill Tannahill who used to work for Grant Thornton, Murray’s auditors. Almost certainly just a coincidence, but I wouldn’t rule anything out when it comes to the huns and their devious ways…
Anyone know anything about this?.
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5db74c0268600869640a90f7f0a31017/compdetails
john clarke says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 15:32
And just quickly while I’m on, can anyone say whether, in relation to the £5 grand to be given, not directly by the penalised club, but to a third party to pass on to THEIR choice of charity, such a penalty has been used before?
Seems a strange kind of notion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is it, in fact, within their competency to instruct a club to make a charitable donation?
scottc says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:16
Is it, in fact, within their competency to instruct a club to make a charitable donation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here, in the SFL CONSTITUTION AND RULES
43. BOARD’S DISCRETION TO MAKE FURTHER RULES
Subject to these Rules, the members of the Board may make any rule which
they think fit about how they take decisions and about how such rules are
to be recorded, amended or communicated to members of the Board.
On another point, I’m beginning to think of Scottish football journalists (MSM ones) in the same category as those anachronisms Town Criers.
“Hear Ye! Oyez, Oyez, Oyez!”
borussiabeefburg says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:26
scottc says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:16
Is it, in fact, within their competency to instruct a club to make a charitable donation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here, in the SFL CONSTITUTION AND RULES
43. BOARD’S DISCRETION TO MAKE FURTHER RULES
Subject to these Rules, the members of the Board may make any rule which
they think fit about how they take decisions and about how such rules are
to be recorded, amended or communicated to members of the Board.
On another point, I’m beginning to think of Scottish football journalists (MSM ones) in the same category as those anachronisms Town Criers.
“Hear Ye! Oyez, Oyez, Oyez!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
🙂
Sounds really similar to the SFA rule that got bombed out in the Court of Session doesn’t it?
ie.
SFA: We can punish you in any way, we see fit.
Judge: Oh no you can’t!
Decent thing to do and apologise if you believe it is required Mr Cosgrove, personally I would wait until HMRC make a decision on an appeal. As your friends in the MSM have stated numerous times regarding the FTTT, there is no “verdict” whilst an appeal is ongoing.
For all those who question the fine handed to Elgin for over selling tickets, think about why we sit on seats these days and not standing. I have had the misfortune to view behind the scenes photos from The Fire Service and Police after The Hillsborough tragedy, enough said!
Will the SFL want proof that the £5k is in fact passed on to a recognised charity? Memo to SFL:-The OSCR site has a search function to check if an organisation is registered with them.
madbhoy24941 says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:38
For all those who question the fine handed to Elgin for over selling tickets, think about why we sit on seats these days and not standing. I have had the misfortune to view behind the scenes photos from The Fire Service and Police after The Hillsborough tragedy, enough said!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely agreed. It was stupidity of the highest order and the fine only works out at £5 or £6 per ticket when the re-arranged match takes place so probably hits them almost perfectly by diminishing any profit they make from the game.
I still question the instruction to make a charitable donation though. That seems somewhat incongruous to me.
Stuart Cosgrove 18.50
Welcome & well said Sir.
Look forward to horsing you again next time the mighty Dons arrive in Perth 😉 !
Since RFC (IL) is a charity case – they had funds diverted to them from the Rangers AC Milan masters game IIRC could five grand be finding it’s way from Elgin to the liquidators pot?
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
PS I used my real name because its my real name and I sincerely believe we have to take ‘secrecy,’ ‘paranoia’ and ‘fear’ out of this debate too.
======================================================================
In that spirit I must confess that I’m not really a French rabbit – should I change my username to Barton Bunny?
Oh, please yourself..
Mr Cosgrove,
While I have your attention, can I express my thanks – and I suspect the thanks of the vast majority on this blog – for what you have done, and are doing, for Scottish football.
You have maintained the historic connection between football and humour, attempted to drag football out of Glasgow and into Scotland, shown the world of Scottish journalism how to do journalism, and now with your apology, given the game a huge nudge towards ‘integrity.’
I apologise for saying you had nothing to apologise for.
And I would willingly give you the three points tonight against the Hibees. I’m a Tic supporter.
Well, HMRC have been busy since the release of a certain tax case result. A lot of ebt holders have received letters requesting copies of the loan documents, interest calculations and minutes / letters. I wonder why? Squeaky bum time for some footballers and administrators?
pau1mart1n says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
bogsdollox says: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 16:32
but what was the total contributed by RFC and MIH?
RFC – 0
MIH – 0
MIH’s friendly bank manager – all of it
Us when said bank needed bailed out – all of it
too simplistic??
=================================================================
Nope…too simple and straightforward maybe…but do they really wnt to se it that way…back door nationalisation…and at the taxpayers’ expense!
================================================================
monsieurbunny says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:59
4 0 Rate This
Oh, please yourself..
——–
Haha, titter ye not 🙂
To be honest, I’ll be devastated if I find out ‘Lord Wobbly’ is just another made up name!
PS Well said doon
Green stated: “I have said before that I wouldn’t return to the SPL in its current form and I stand by that – it just won’t happen.”
==============================================================
ah, it’s the evil SPL and it’s CURRENT FORM that he hates…..for the perceived crimes against Sevconian rangers
So, what is it he objects to? that the Chairmen of the 10 biggest/top clubs in the country refused his new company access to their club and the “riches” that come with it
See, thats what Chuckles is forgetting…..the SPL IS the clubs, it’s chairmen and, importantly in this instance, it’s FANS.
it was the FANS that pressured the Chairmen to not allow the newco access to the top flight of the game
For once, the chairmen listened to their fans.
However, if the SPL survives 1,2, 5, 100 years or if Scottish football is overhauled….with a new “super duper” league set up – a new governing body – either completely new or a merger of the existing clusterfecks – at SOME POINT, sevco Rangers will face entering the top flight of Scottish football (whatever it is called)
And guess what chuckles….when you get there, it will be the same clubs (give or take 1 or 2) and it’ll be the same chairmen/board/CEO’s and it will be the same fans that will welcome you in – so long as it’s not through slight of hand to get you back early and on any terms other than merit.
SO, what will you do? if it is a reorganised body, it’ll be the SAME people. Does that not make them the SAME CLUB (as it were) – you seem to claim that. Or will you view it as a NEW CLUB – much like your sevco rangers is a new club, and it therefore had NO RIGHT to be welcomed into the SPL in the 1st place?
How will you view the same chairmen who cast you into the wilderness (in your mind) just because the trade organisation they are a member of has changed it’s name?
“want”…”see”…
Aplogies!
Stuart, on your second point, can you please educate your mucker Traynor on this quality? Thanks.
puzzlingresult says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:25(Edit)
Well, HMRC have been busy since the release of a certain tax case result. A lot of ebt holders have received letters requesting copies of the loan documents, interest calculations and minutes / letters. I wonder why? Squeaky bum time for some footballers and administrators?
______________________________________________________________________
Do you have a source for that?
puzzlingresult says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:25
5 0 Rate This
Well, HMRC have been busy since the release of a certain tax case result. A lot of ebt holders have received letters requesting copies of the loan documents, interest calculations and minutes / letters. I wonder why? Squeaky bum time for some footballers and administrators?
————-
You know this for a fact? Or is it something you surmise?
Apologies if this has been mentioned already.
Another problem for the ‘it was the holding company that was liquidated’ theory with the quote from Chas today;
“You have to remember that the case was against the Murray Group because Rangers at that time was a subsidiary of the Murray Group.’
So in reality Rangers were a subsidiary of the Murray Group but the Murray Group is not being liquidated.
Oh dear.
What a tangled web we weave………………………………………
I’ll third what TSFM and Danish said there …
On Stuart Cosgrove
TU’s – 49
TD’s – 1
Tam, feck off!
puzzlingresult says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:25
And your’e not offerring a scanned copy of such a letter?
That’s the apostrophe police coming for me! you’re 🙂
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
The inabilty to admit wrong doing in terms of understanding the true extent of the wrong perplexes me.
It also has the effect that I want the Nimmo enquiry to proceed not out of any bitterness but simply because a wrong not admitted can be a wrong repeated.
Charles Green’s latest statement regarding Nimmo worries me in that it suggests CG has no concept of wrong and for Scottish football to move out of this mess with a new Rangers involved, an admission of wrong doing is a sine qua non.
The other reason is that a wrong not admitted is a wrong that cannot be forgiven by those wronged without them losing their own self respect.
Rangers supporter truculence, encouraged by CG, played a major role in influencing supporters to pressure club chairmen to vote no to an SPL entry for Sevco.
As long as this attitude prevails the “no pasaran” response will too.
When will they ever learn?
I’m a bit confused here.
Why would anyone suggest that Lord Nimmo Smith’s enquiry would not go ahead. Where’s the logic or reason in that.
The SPL lawyers made it clear there was a prima facie case against Rangers (as was). It was decided a further enquiry was needed and the formal enquiry announced.
A subsequent tribunal ruling has, if anything provided evidence to support the prima facie case. That Rangers players were receiving payments which were not being declared to the footballing authorities, and that it was a deliberate policy of the old club.
Surely if anything there is more need for the enquiry now, not less.
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 20:17
“Mr Cosgrove,
….. and I would willingly give you the three points tonight against the Hibees. I’m a Tic supporter.”
………………….
I almost totally agree with you doontheslope. While pleased that Hibees have taken all three points tonight, I recognise that this was probably not an overwhelming victory. I would like to think the Hibees deserved a clear outright victory and perhaps they did – I wasn’t there to see it – though the BBC’s match statistics would seem to suggest that it was a fortunate win. All credit to the Saints who seemed to make a match of it. They are a fine team and a club to be proud off.
There is a lesson here, I would suggest. Outright victories do happen on the field and in other areas of life such as in courts and tribunals but nobody’s standing or credibility is enhanced by claiming outright victory/vindication when the justice of an outcome is clearly questionable, especially when called into questions by one of the adjudicators.
More importantly though, isn’t it great to see Hibs starting to develop a winning habit. There’s a long way to go with the SPL this season and the Hibees are certainly contributing to a memorable ‘post-Armageddon’ season. All credit to Pat and the squad.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 22:15
5 0 Rate This
I note that the RFFF seems to have come to life again, albeit
around £100K down on the figures they were showing before.
The spreadsheet showing expenditure seems to have
disappeared from their website, too.
At least they haven’t absconded with the cash (or all of it, anyway
), which was a fear even of many bears.
The £500K-odd will be spent according to fans’ wishes, it says
here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They could make a few friends if they offered it to Elgin.
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:40
9 0 Rate This
monsieurbunny says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:59
4 0 Rate This
Oh, please yourself..
——–
Haha, titter ye not
To be honest, I’ll be devastated if I find out ‘Lord Wobbly’ is just
another made up name!
PS Well said doon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fear not Danish. Wobbly by name, wobbly by closing time! 😉
Prohibby:
Hibs scored from a goal that had more than the whiff of gamesmanship…but I’m home now and must learn to move on.
….I am very confident that I can crack the enigma of Lord Wobbly. He once said on a previous iteration of this blog that I had sponsored his ‘nephew’ when he was an SPL professional so I at least know his surname…and that he used to travel to training with Paddy Connolly, who you will remember was the victim of the greatest ever refereeing mistake in the history of Scottish football. Lord Wobbly has something of the bishop about him.
It would seem, according to the daily Mail, that Mike Ashley would like to rename Ibrox Stadium. I wonder how much money that would raise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2240043/Newcastle-owner-Mike-Ashley-plans-rename-Ibrox-CHARLES-SALE.html
Newcastle owner Mike Ashley is understood to be in negotiations with Rangers for naming rights to the Glasgow club’s iconic Ibrox Stadium.
The proposed deal would lead to one of football’s most famous stadiums, which opened in 1899, being renamed the Sports Direct Arena to promote Ashley’s sports retail empire.
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:10
2 0 Rate This
Prohibby:
Hibs scored from a goal that had more than the whiff of
gamesmanship…but I’m home now and must learn to move on.
….I am very confident that I can crack the enigma of Lord Wobbly.
He once said on a previous iteration of this blog that I had
sponsored his ‘nephew’ when he was an SPL professional so I at
least know his surname…and that he used to travel to training
with Paddy Connolly, who you will remember was the victim of
the greatest ever refereeing mistake in the history of Scottish
football. Lord Wobbly has something of the bishop about him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry Stuart. I think you have mistaken me for someone else. Either that or had waaaay too much Balvenie that day.
Either that or I had too much Balvenie that day.
I know you guys will have discussed this but can I just make it absolutely clear, Charles Green is talking rubbish about a CVA being achievable, and liquidation not happening.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20527469
HMRC made it quite clear that, as a matter of policy they would not accept a CVA for certain types of debt. That includes not paying across money which has been collected.
Rangers were placed into administration because they did not pay around £15m PAYE / NI / VAT. Money they had collected but not paid across. At the same time they owed HMRC around £3m (wee tax bill) which had been agreed. So about £18m or so. This is totally separate from the EBT amounts.
If the total debt at that time (excluding the EBTs) was around £50m. HMRC had way more than the 25% they required to block the CVA, which as they said, and which was predicted on RTC they were always going to do.
The EBTs and the timing of the tribunal ruling was absolutely irrelevant in the administration, the CVA rejection and the liquidation. HMRC always had enough of the debt to do these things, and were never going to do anything else.
Mr Green himself even acknowledged that when he stated in June that if HMRC knew they were going to reject the CVA back in February why didn’t they tell us at the time.
It is revisionist nonsense, he never wanted a CVA. He wanted a new club with old Rangers’ assets and none of their debt. Even if it was only (lol) £50m.
Paddy mac @paddyamy2000
@georgegalloway What has the UK become? A builder gets jailed for 14 months for £64,000 of unpaid taxes, yet, MP,s & big corps just walk off
Retweeted by George Galloway
I may be in the minority, but I am delighted that someone from the MSM, viz Mr Cosgrove, is engaging with us on this forum
campsiejoe says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:26
I may be in the minority, but I am delighted that someone from the MSM, viz Mr Cosgrove, is engaging with us on this forum
==============================
So long as he displays a certain level of decorum Joe, there are standards after all.
That’s it, Wobbly. Deny everything and dont let that John Clarke “out” you either.
@thehotshot67: #rherotical … So why does one need to create ANOTHER ‘The Rangers’ co? ; http://t.co/mBbL05br
Cenkos, Andy Stewart, Huntress Nominees. I posted a few snippets at the time Cenkos were first
in the frame for Greens flotation and I can’t find them. Can anybody help? Thank-you!
Prohibby
I took the moniker because former Hibs captain, George Stewart bought a pub at Easteroad and called it Doon The Slope. The same week, Hibs announced that they were going to ‘level the playing field.’ George was never very good at life!!
But attaining a level playing field was (and is) what this blog was/is about. Seemed appropriate. But I do have a wee soft spot for the cabbage and ribs and great to see Pat getting a chance to build.
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
Stuart,
Firstly thanks for taking the time to post and secondly for admitting it was you. I rarely post on here now and indeed have rarely been reading other posts. I think I had begun to suffer from Rangers Tax Case Fatigue. But in early part of the year it was often the case that I would hear or read comments from esteemed members of the journalist profession where it was obvious they were referencing comments/info from RTC’s blog only to then deny they had ever read it.
I have had two main interests throughout this debacle. The first was that whatever fate befell Rangers those in charge of Scottish football would correctly and fairly apply both the law and the rules of the sport.
My second interest was the complete and abject failure of the Scottish Media to accurately report or comment on what was happening. The most glaring failing in my view was that not one sports journalist ever seemed to actually ask a challenging or searching question of any of the main players. Not one. I gave poor old Hugh Keevins a hard time on SSB one night re the failure of anyone to ask Campbell Olgilvie whether he had an EBT or whether he was aware of them when at Rangers. To me it was such an obvious question. Hugh’s answer was that I wanted Rangers dead. When challenged on that his reply was that Campbell was an honourable man.
I remember Chick’s shock on Radio Scotland when one of the presenters asked him if he had asked Campbell if he had an EBT. His flustered reply was along the lines of I wouldn’t think so. Two days later it was yes he did but it was only to the value of a good night out!
So have things changed? Sadly no. The recent reporting of the FTT was just more of the same. Firstly the result has generally been reported as a straight win for MIH and Rangers. I have rarely read a judgement that that is so scathing in its analysis of witness evidence. And the admission by Rangers that tax is due on many of the players’ EBTs is simply ignored.
What I continue to find incredible is that we are still seeing reporting that is inaccurate and unquestioning. We are told that this decision undermines the SPL investigation. Anyone who has read the judgement would know that is far from the truth. Your colleague James Traynor for one appears to be willing to overlook all the key aspects of the evidence.
But for me the worst aspect is that not one Scottish sports journalist has, to my knowledge, raised the content of the judgement with MIH, Murray himself, Ogilvie or any of the other main players re the apparent failure to follow SPL and SFA registration rules. The story is there on a plate. No one has the nerve to ask the key questions. Why? If I am wrong, and someone has asked the questions, and published the replies, and I missed them, I’ll be happy to join you in apologising.
I think many of us here Stuart would be grateful if you would ask the journalists who come on to your show, why they haven’t asked those questions. Afterall, it is not as if Sir David can now ban any of them from Ibrox…
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:42
——————-
Excluding the ‘clanger’ … (speller)… it is a genuine question? I thought it was obvious when I was tweeting my ‘Rhetorical’ Question… but from many replies from much “morederer cleverer” folks, I’m now unsure.
Thanking you all in ‘adanvce! 😉
Agrajag says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:12
The proposed deal would lead to one of football’s most famous stadiums, which opened in 1899, being renamed the Sports Direct Arena to promote Ashley’s sports retail empire.
===================================================
…and if it was renamed Ashley’s Sports Direct Arena, it would be ready for the new retail giant’s store there in a few years!!
Famous `Chairman’s Vote of Confidence`? [sic]
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=11030&newsCategoryID=1
“The Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board met at Hampden Park today to hear and discuss proposals on league reconstruction made by the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League.
The PGB is encouraged by the common ground established on many issues in what is an emotive subject.
The respective league bodies will now hold further discussions with their member clubs, in the hope that this common ground can be expanded upon within each proposal.
The next meeting of the PGB is scheduled for January 30, 2013. However, it has offered to reconvene earlier to expedite the process once the bodies have held further talks with their members.”
Blimey
twopanda says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 00:17
‘“The Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board met at Hampden Park today to hear and discuss proposals on league reconstruction made by the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League.’
—
Would Topping’s views ( as a member of the PGB) , expressed in advance to Thompson of the SPL, been the reason why that decent man resigned from the SPL?
That is, is Thompson convinced , from what Topping has said generally, that the PGB is ready to go down the road of INSISTING that CG’s ersatz Rangers must be in the top flight of any restructured league, and has therefore decided to have feck all to do with that kind of deviousness?
Will any of our intrepid band of MSM churnalists even try to find out?
Will UFOs be sighted over Bonny ( bridge? rigg? I can never remember!)
But, quietly, bravo to yer man Thompson, if indeed he has smelled a rat.
jfl68 says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 00:04
‘….The story is there on a plate. No one has the nerve to ask the key questions. ….’
—
To use a modern idiom, you are SO right!
God Almighty, why doesn’t some guy or girl with a Press card go and ask questions?
When you think of real journalists who go and get themselves killed because they are ready to ask and challenge all kinds of evil ba-tards world-wide, what can you think of the jabbas?
Eddie Mair on BBC radio four gave the Chairman of the BBC Trust ( Lord Patten) a real, real, roasting on air about the payment made to the resigning Director General.
In doing so, he ran, still runs, the risk of falling foul of powerful people who can seriously damage his career.
He did not flinch.
The jabbas, on the contrary, won’t ask questions of dodgy people involved in FOOTBALL, for heaven’s sake!
This can only be because they see their self interests better served by being aye ready to defend the indefensible by distorting the truth.
I would spit upon them, except that my spit has more integrity than they, and would be sullied by contact with their succulent lamb fed bodies.
doontheslope says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 00:03
‘..The same week, Hibs announced that they were going to ‘level the playing field.’ George was never very good at life!!’
—-
On the contrary, it could be argued, he surely laid the foundation for a nostalgia-based affection for a Hibs pub that might have chosen that name? For example. if I had a pub anywhere near Celtic Park I might call it ‘The Jungle’ to cash in on the nostalgia that maybe even some late-40 year olds might remember.
And, as a matter of interest, was the pitch truly levelled?
I think there is still a wee slope, but that is based on the view from a dodgy-eyed old man who long ago used to throwand chains around trying to become a surveyor. 🙂
john clarke says: at 00:49
Can`t really respond jc – except to wholeheartedly agree
Personally I think the SFA/SFL/SPL will each try to make jelly stick to a wall for the next two years
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
Hi Stuart! it’s great to hear from you and welcome aboard the good ship TSFM.
First up, I have to say that I have long been an admirer of your work. As one of the few ‘non-Old Firm’ commentators in the Scottish press (okay I have heard that Chico professes a love for the Buddies and Jabba claims an affinity with the Diamonds, however, most of us recognise where their true allegiances lie) you, alongside Tam Cowan, have brought a great deal of much-needed and un-biased levity into Scottish football when, for many supporters, there has been nothing much to laugh about recently. It is fantastic, though not before time, to see a fully paid-up member of the mainstream media finally begin to engage, in a constructive manner, with the blogosphere.
When I read your post tonight explaining why you felt the need to apologise to the Rangers supporters in the wake of the ‘Big Tax Case’ decision, my first thought was ‘good on him’. It takes a brave man to say ‘I’m sorry’ in Scotland especially in the midst of such divisive rhetoric as we have witnessed from the media throughout the Rangers debacle. I must admit that I am one of those bloggers who questioned the need for your apology, calling it ‘unnecessary but sincere’ in a previous post. However, having read your explanation for this, I feel I too must apologise for, perhaps, misrepresenting your genuine act of contrition.
I listened to your earnest and unreserved apology to Rangers fans on both ‘Off the Ball’ and ‘Your Call’ last Saturday and, I have to say, I took it to be a ‘generic’ confession to ‘having been wrong’ about Rangers. Now I see that what you meant was that while ‘The (Rangers) debt is still significant – and a matter of significant public concern – but will come nowhere close to £134m. I proffered the figure not as speculative opinion but as a fact…… I have apologised.’ In your defence, it was an easy mistake to make given that the vast majority of the MSM and the bloggers had also extracted this same figure from the available public documents. Let’s be honest, virtually no-one (apart from Jabba, who is always right…apparently) expected the result of the FTTT to go the way it did.
I fear though that your on-air apology, however well meaning, may not have come across as you had intended. Many non-Rangers fans will have seen it as no more than ‘backpedalling’ while Rangers fans will have taken it as an admission of guilt (or a surrender, if you will). Such is ‘the way of things’ in Glasgow and the west of Scotland these days, but I am sure you already know that.
Anyway Stuart, I humbly welcome and look forward to your continued input to this open forum , as I too welcome the new Rangers supporters who have seen past some of the more ‘petty and ill-informed’ comments on here, to see the value in honest and open debate about our shared passion ‘Scottish football’. You guys are the avant-garde of what I hope will be a new chapter in football journalism in Scotland.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:41
‘That’s it, Wobbly. Deny everything and dont let that John Clarke “out” you either.’
——-
What fun!
I may have mentioned previously that I have a son in Australia.
I have therefore acquired an interest in Australian history.
And lo and behold, there are the’ Wobblies’!
But it would be a clever chap that could ‘out’, or, indeed, outwit, my Lord Wobbly.
PS I used my pen name because its my pen name and I sincerely believe we have to take ‘exposure,’ ‘threat’ and ‘fear’ out of this debate too.
Two days after tanks on the lawn – reminding everyone – to keep off the grass – We get;
Elgin, Elgin – and some more Elgin in case you missed it. Plus CG re-appears with the now routine missives. Throw in a `VAT` person and a stadium name change tease tester to keep the tabs happy –
What`s really up?
Let’s see what`s missing on the agenda – Share thing / Creditors Meeting / CO Investigation / Starbucks…
John Clarke
And, as a matter of interest, was the pitch truly levelled?
———————————————————-
It truly was, John. A 1.8 meter slope between the North and South Stands was corrected at the end of season 1999-2000 thus enabling Elton John to perform Live there in 2005 without a nasty accident happening to a runaway piano.
Elton, a long time fan of the Edinburgh club, had brought the Easter Road problem to the attention of the world with his hit ‘Dont Let the Slope Go Down on Me.’ In his 2005 concert, in an emotional tribute to the problem having been corrected, he opened with ‘The Pitch is Back.’
I hope that answers your question.
DR ‘reporting’ that the reason Stephen Thompson resigned from SPL Board was because Ralph Topping accused him of leaking sensitive information to the media.
doontheslope says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 07:01
I wonder who leaked that news to the media?
I’m finding myself stuck, more often than nought, for somewhere to read about Scottish football.
The red tops are a non starter. The hootsmon and the herald? The telegraph, guardian and independent have very limited coverage of Scottish football.
Phil’s site still has the odd enjoyable article but even his ego can be grating.
It’s fair to say I’ve been feeling scunnard of late with the FTT. Like cleaning hot porridge from the inside of a microwave, it takes a hell of a lot longer than you think and the outcome doesn’t satisfy. I guess I and a lot of other people were hoping for some kind of closure.
And so the blog picks back up. Group think aside its still the best option to chew over whats goings on.
Stuart Cosgrove better be careful or he will be accused by Tom English as being our new demi deity who we worship as uncritically as RTC!
One question in particular that I’d be interested in Stuart’s take on is (I appreciate others have raised it) why have sports journalists been left to try and handle what is essentially a massive but non sporting story, where financial skills and corporate acumen are far more important than a sports background. Asking the likes of Chic Young, Jim Traynor, Murdo McCloud or the ever so slightly conflicted Billy Dodds about a tax avoidance scheme has an almost surreal comic quality but I’d like to think we are not just looking for laughs here!
puzzlingresult says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:25
60 1 Rate This
Well, HMRC have been busy since the release of a certain tax case result. A lot of ebt holders have received letters requesting copies of the loan documents, interest calculations and minutes / letters. I wonder why? Squeaky bum time for some footballers and administrators?
———————————————–
puzzlingresult, you have posted probably a ‘Nuclear’ piece of information, then bolted.
Can we put that down to you being a troll in it’s purest form.
Mr Green in the media today is commenting that the Elgin ticket fiasco must never happen again.
For the purposes of balance: did The Rangers Football Club not recently sell tickets for a televised game via RangersTV? It was reported that the Club could not honour its commitment as the internet feed was not broadcast. Did those fans receive an apology and a refund on their ticket money?
twopanda says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 00:17
The next meeting of the PGB is scheduled for January 30, 2013. However, it has offered to reconvene earlier to expedite the process once the bodies have held further talks with their members.”
===============================
So they can expedite matters if it suits.
The Nimmo Smith enquiry is due in January as well, can that sit earlier to consider the evidence if that would expedite matters.
Let’s not be expediting some things and not others.
Agrajag says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 22:39
Why would anyone suggest that Lord Nimmo Smith’s enquiry would not go ahead. Where’s the logic or reason in that.
=======
I have little doubt that the enquiry will go ahead but I am far from convinced that any punishments will fit the crimes or that the declared punishments will be meted out.
Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20
The discussion today in the London insolvency circles is that the Rangers saga may involve a criminal prosecution against individuals.
a real journalist at work –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20522036
imagine what he would do if he worked in an environmen
t. . . that wasn’t run by a “politburo” of “THE PEOPLE” ???
[. . . is a committee consisting of the top leadership of . . . the committee meets once a week and makes decisions by consensus. . . ]
If the ‘tight at the top’ continues through to April-ish, would the split be fair?
With more than half the teams in with a chance of winning the league, why split in half?
Should Celtic, as most expect, pull away, there could still be more than 5 out of the remaining 11 teams in with a chance of second spot.
Is a split fair under these circumstances?
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 22:15
TSFM – any particular reason my post was removed? Just wondering.
If there is, then you better delete Wobbly’s reply, which quotes it in full, from about half an hour later. 😉
David McCloy 09.57
For my part, the split is fair. Teams signed up for it at the start of the season & have 33 games to get themselves in top 6. To tinker with rules mid season would be unfair to all & probably seen as vicarious promotion of a given team or teams.
Whether there should be a split at all needs to be announced prior to season commencement. I think that is a separate question & one which will ultimately be determined by money.
campsiejoe says: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:26
“I may be in the minority, but I am delighted that an untainted member of the MSM, viz Mr Cosgrove, is engaging with us on this forum”
edited for (my own personal) accuracy 😉
Hope Spency is on here too!!
grajag says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:12
5 0 Rate This
It would seem, according to the daily Mail, that Mike Ashley would like to rename Ibrox Stadium. I wonder how much money that would raise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2240043/Newcastle-owner-Mike-Ashley-plans-rename-Ibrox-CHARLES-SALE.html
Newcastle owner Mike Ashley is understood to be in negotiations with Rangers for naming rights to the Glasgow club’s iconic Ibrox Stadium.
The proposed deal would lead to one of football’s most famous stadiums, which opened in 1899, being renamed the Sports Direct Arena to promote Ashley’s sports retail empire.
———————————————————————————————————
Did Ashley ever put his money into buying shares – as we were told he would
And just who does own that rangers retail business that was a “joint venture” Is it still wholly owned by Sports Direct?
Just what is the deal in place with SD now that JJB were also shafted by Oldco rangers
I don’t think the renaming of the stadium is a big deal – fans will always refer to it as ibrox, or The Big Hoose (honestly never heard it called that until that fat pie muncher came away with it – i thought the Big Hoose was the Bar-L)
It brings in much needed revenue to a new company, so makes sense.
not sure how the timing of this announcement will go down with chuckie – only a couple of weeks until he expects the sevconians to top up his, and his 20 high nett worth investors, pension funds. Surely that wee snippet could have been kept under wraps until the cheques had cleared.
Todays [SFM Edit – Traynor] story – Celtic also to look at renaming stadium.
Taysider says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 07:57
Why have sports journalists been left to try and handle what is essentially a massive but non sporting story, where financial skills and corporate acumen are far more important than a sports background.
————————————————————————————————————-
I think the reason is quite simply by leaving it with the sports departments there remains an element of deniability for the publication involved. IMHO the overwhelming majority of sports writers are regarded by everyone the same as footballers – brains in their feet. I think that no longer applies to many footballers but sadly I have seen little change in the sports corps.
Sports reporters historically can write the biggest load of mince, make up exclusive stories, push the line of Football Agents trying to earn cash for their clients but are always fearful of being excluded from access to a football club which keeps them suitable subservient. And, dare I say, many readers of the sports pages have no interest in the heavier papers or in business, finance abd heavy reporting. It’s not to say they’re stoopid but perhaps they want a quick burst of light relief – sports coverage just isn’t meant to be taken seriously. Although I have to add that many of the primadona writers do take themselves very seriously.
If an investigative reporter or newspaper business/finance department became heavily involved in the Rangers story then you would see a totally different tone in the reporting but for a variety of reasons that doesn’t suit the MSM so they are kept at arms length. However the comedy of watching quite intricate legal, stock market and accountancy-heavy stories being tackled by the sports brigade really has provded a mixture of farce and comedy.
The other major thing is that an investigative or financial/business reporter will get the same amount of PR releases, pressure and ‘steers’ but they are in a position to judge the ‘value’ of this partial information designed to show the client in the best light. The sports brigade clutch at the PR fluff as if it is the bread of life which, for them in their ignorance, it actually is. So they swallow the PR fluff and regurgitate the succulent lamb as required. Have any of these sports journos actually read the Majority Decision and Minority Opinion – don’t make me laugh and don’t even go near whether they understood it.
So I don’t actually blame the sports journos – they ain’t up to the task and they know it and so do all their better-placed colleagues but even more importantly so do their Bosses who are exhibiting cowardice and have failed the public. I should make it clear that none of this is an attack on Rangers but an anthem for a doomed media industry which has failed to bring the truth and balanced reporting to the public and that’s why so many people no longer buy their tawdry offerings.
Taking a principled editorial decision takes guts and there seems to be a distinct lack of that commodity left in the Scottish Media with a few honourable exceptions which we are all aware of. Perhaps some backbone should have been left in the lamb before it was served-up.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 09:25
======================
That would not be even remotely surprising. It really would fit in with how things have played out with regard the administration, liquidation and appointment of liquidators. They will not only be looking at what happened directly before the club went into administration, but also what happened for the years leading up to it, and after it had happened.
This will not be a quick or clean process i wouldn’t have thought.
As discussed before they will really be looking into who was responsible for what, and who benefited from the situation. That will be with a view to both recovering assets from the individuals concerned and the potential for sriminal prosecutions.
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
“My reason for posting was that the esteemed blogger ‘Doontheslope’ asked why I had apologised on the pronouncement of the FTTT result, as I had nothing to feel sorry for.
The answer is simple. I had written a blog that was about the largely postive impacts of social media but within the body of the blog I had included comments that the FTTT result has rendered inaccurate. I had said that RFC (ia) had crashed leaving an estimated £134m of debt, which proved to be exaggerated and wrong. The debt is still significant – and a matter of significant public concern – but will come nowhere close to £134m. I proffered the figure not as speculative opinion but as a fact, and since I am now wrong I have apologised.
My second reason is to back up a long held belief that ‘always being right’ corrodes the soul and diminshes debate in almost every walk of public life. A failure to admit wrong-doing dogs Scottish football and is one of the greatest barriers to a better football democracy. So that’s why I said sorry.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Two observations if I may:
1. The estimation of the debt was as reported in a legal document produced by the wonderful Duff & Duffer (copyright acknowledged) You can only report the FACTs as they are given to you.
2. Rangers FC cheated, FACT! (still no apology)
PS TheBlackKnight IS my real name 😉