The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’ had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.
The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.
I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.
However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.
We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.
We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.
We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.
Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.
Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.
If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.
We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?
TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.
Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).
If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.
But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.
The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.
As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.
For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.
We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.
One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.
The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.
By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.
We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.
Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 10:45(Edit)
________________________________________________
Celtic have been looking at that for several years, but have resisted because the big bucks required to make the fans swallow the name change (severe culture shock alert) are just not there.
Not exactly an exclusive to say that anyone is “looking at” something. Responsible executives will be looking at everything which can increase revenue.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 10:45
grajag says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 23:12
It would seem, according to the daily Mail, that Mike Ashley would like to rename Ibrox Stadium
Did Ashley ever put his money into buying shares – as we were told he would
And just who does own that rangers retail business that was a “joint venture” Is it still wholly owned by Sports Direct?
——————————————————————————————————————–
I read some quite interesting Newcastle fan pieces angry at the renaming of St James park by Ashley as the Sports Direct Arena and if my memory serves me correctly one of the biggest grudges was that the club didn’t received any cash for this. Whether that changed or not I don’t know but of course its back to St James Park with the Wonga deal and again the fans think reurning to the historic name was a sop to them for swallowing Wonga as a sponsor.
So perhaps Ashley would want the Ibrox naming rights for a song and roll the payment into the merchandise contract as he certainly seems canny with the cash.
If Ashley had actually invested anything above a piddling amount I reckon chico would have trumpeted it with a military fanfare from the top of Ibrox even if he had been told to keep it a secret.
And on the joint venture business that has always been a bit strange as chico claims that Rangers has the majority stake with 51 or 52% from memory but I don’t think he has ever actually specified the full name of the company. There is however Rangers Retail Ltd incorporated on 13/07/2012 with its address as Sports Direct HQ.
Three very senior Sports Direct Employees/Directors were the original directors of Rangers Retail Ltd although on 28/08/2012 BRIAN STOCKBRIDGE and CHARLES GREEN were added as directors. But the £100 shareholding for the company is held by another major long-term Sports Direct company where I would be surprised if Rangers held any shareholding let alone over 50 per cent.
So again there is a bit of confusion over what has been said but it cannot be pinned-down because there might be another company floating about which we are unaware of. Just another little detail which you think a real journo mights ask 🙁
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
Stuart great to see you posting and yes it is good to see decent Rangers fans of which there are many joining the debate. As for the nom de plumes in some respects I find them humorous and intriguing in some respects. Sometimes when I read posts on RTC & TSFM it was like being in a spy movie where some contact somewhere in the World was feeding you top secret information, brilliant. I for one will not be changing my nom de plume, I like ma face to much you have nothing to worry about there 🙂
Here’s a question I’m not sure if we have debated on here but I’d like to hear your opinion on why you think the SPL has become more competitive this year, practically every game has had real significance on league position. So why is that? is it becuase Rangers aren’t there and the mindset of teams is changing, they are thinking if I put that bit of extra effort we could acheive something this year, what is it ? Would it have been as competitive if Rangers remained in the SPL ?
You sometimes find that with players they can often remain in the shadow of a team mate but the moment that team mate is injured or moves on that individual starts to express themself more, so it is psychological thing! Would we revert to the same old same old if Rangers were back.
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 22:51
12 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:40
9 0 Rate This
monsieurbunny says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:59
4 0 Rate This
Oh, please yourself..
——–
Haha, titter ye not
To be honest, I’ll be devastated if I find out ‘Lord Wobbly’ is just
another made up name!
PS Well said doon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fear not Danish. Wobbly by name, wobbly by closing time!
————
That’s a relief! We actually had quite a few from the aristocracy in Dennistoun when I was a youth. They were friends of ‘The Duke’. I’d often encounter Lord Legless (perhaps a relation of yours?) and his chum Count Paralytic, not to mention Earl Steamin and Lord Boozy. Oh yes, you’d meet lots of toffs in those days 🙂
Danish Pastry on Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 11:22
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 22:51
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:40
monsieurbunny says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 19:59
————
That’s a relief! We actually had quite a few from the aristocracy in Dennistoun when I was a youth. They were friends of ‘The Duke’. I’d often encounter Lord Legless (perhaps a relation of yours?) and his chum Count Paralytic, not to mention Earl Steamin and Lord Boozy. Oh yes, you’d meet lots of toffs in those days
******
Not forgetting…
Earl Dorado
anyone any particular thoughts on “Newclubs” new name…… 😉
Can’t be anything to do with BDO or the Stock Exchange objection to trading name….. Did the Nomads have the gonads????…..
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/be8b6b37d99cb7db40a893754dd1e091/compdetails
Rangers International FC ??? Rangers Inter FC??? RIFC ??
Name & Registered Office:
RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
IBROX STADIUM
150 EDMISTON DRIVE
GLASGOW
UNITED KINGDOM
G51 2XD
Company No. SC437060
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 16/11/2012
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
None Supplied
Accounting Reference Date: 30/11
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 16/05/2014
Last Return Made Up To:
Next Return Due: 14/12/2013
Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
27/11/2012 RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC
Re the debt figure, apologies etc.
The debt figure, as reported, was correct at the time.
1, HMRC had issued their assessments, this creates a legally enfoceable debt. It is not enforced because of the appeal however it is a debt.
2, HMRC lodged a claim with the administrators for a specific amount of debt, including the amounts under appeal, see 1.
3, Duff & Phelps provided detials of the claims they had allowed, for the administration / CVA process (the debt level directly relates to the voting rights).
Therefore HMRC, the responsible Government Department, provided a figure for the level of Debt. Duff & Phelps, the Court appointed administrator confirmed this debt level.
This is the figure that people used, and it was perfectly reasonable to do so. It was correct at the time. It was a fact.
It was subsequently reduced as part of the appeal process. That was always possible and recognised as such. In fact most people recognised that reducing it was probable, though perhaps not by as much as happened. However that does not change the fact of what the debt was, at the time. It was a perfectly reasonable and accurate figure to use.
No apology is required from anone who used it. They were being entirely accurate.
Well done someone at STV puts CGs CVA would have been possible nonesense to the sword.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/203241-rangers-tax-case-and-the-result-of-the-cva-your-questions-answered/
briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 11:15
…I’d like to hear your opinion on why you think the SPL has become more competitive this year, practically every game has had real significance on league position. So why is that?
——
I reckon the absence of RFC(nil) has something to do with it in that they and CFC are not taking points off other teams every week and simply sharing them between themselves.
Therefore, the whole League is more balanced.
A few poor results for the singular “best” team and everyone else is snapping at their heels. Confidence is therefore much higher in general, and they play better as a consequence. It’s a circular argument, I know, but that appears to be how it’s playing out.
It appears that having one “behemoth” in the League is not enough to overbalance it, whereas having two is.
ianagain says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:07
0 0 Rate This
Well done someone at STV puts CGs CVA would have been possible nonesense to the sword.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/203241-rangers-tax-case-and-the-result-of-the-cva-your-questions-answered/
Good to see that “STV” get it, Sports Hacks must be off today
bogsdollox says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 17:15
smugas says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 17:04
bogsdollox says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 16:48
Why would the loan administrators require fund flows to be discounted using LIBOR plus margin if it was going to be ignored in any case? I took this to mean that the eventual trust payout was designed, in fact accurately calculated, to cancel the amount the player had borrowed plus interest.
=======================================================================
Where did you get that from? I may be bang wrong but the reference to LIBOR is that the loans are charged at that rate plus a few percent and this never changed over the whole life of the EBT’s. I didn’t pick up any discounting although I believe the Trust Company got a slice of the action.
=======================================================================
para 103 (vii) in the majority decision. “..In (almost) all of these cases loans for the full amount advanced for an extended term (10 years) and on a discounted basis were granted by the trustees to the employee…. The discount reflected LIBOR interest rates fixed at the outset plus about 1.5% to 2% (margin)”
But remember the employees had an expectation to receive a net figure, so rather than receive a percentage of the money placed in the trust (leaving the remainder there to represent interest forward paid) they appear to have received ALL of the money received to the trust with interest applications notionally accruing on top, as you said yourself. It follows then that A.Player receives a figure say £1m for arguements sake and finishes (dies) with a loan for £1m plus interest. My question is were the beneficiaries (wife and kids) expecting to receive the £1m plus interest? I would have thought A.Players reps would have insisted on it in order to safely pay back now deceased Daddy A.Player’s loan. Remember the crux of the contract that the player and sub trust has entered into is to pay out x, in this case £1m for A Player’s playing services, on A.Player’s death. The loan is just a means to an end in the middle.
Either the trust was going to pay out (and by pay out I mean issue a piece of toilet roll with £1m plus interest scribbled on it) alongside an invoice for A.Player’s loan plus interest totalling the same amount and thus to be ‘repaid’ using the same piece of bog roll. In this case Rangers would not have put into the trust what is expected to come out hence my querying the declared figure by the auditors,
OR
the trust has to take a hit whereby it issues a loan of, in this case, £1m. It then, once the player dies goes through the same andrex based process as above, but for the £1m only and then eventually somewhere along the lines has to write off the interest expectation that has given rise to the partial benefot in kind tax break in the first place. Something in my thankfully few university tax lectures of long ago tells me this might not be a good idea either.
Sorry to be anal on this one but I remember an old friend on here continuously stating that I should follow the money.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 09:25
Official probe launched into demise of Rangers as ex-director Paul Murray warns people will ‘pay’ for destroying club
ACCOUNTS firm BDO will look into the liquidation of the Ibrox club in the aftermath of Craig Whyte’s £15m unpaid PAYE bill with criminal prosecutions a real threat.
LIQUIDATORS have officially launched a full-scale probe into the circumstances surrounding the sinking of Rangers which could lead to criminal prosecutions and legal cases worth tens of millions of pounds.
Record Sport revealed last week London accounts firm BDO had agreed to hunt down those responsible for the demise of the Ibrox club, forced under when former owner Craig Whyte ran up almost £15million in unpaid PAYE.
Former director Paul Murray called on BDO to carry out the investigation as a matter of urgency and insisted any suspected “guilty parties” should be hauled into court and pursued for damages.
Murray said the inquiry should stretch back as far as three years to include the circumstances surrounding Whyte’s takeover, the Big Tax Case bill and the conduct of other key players Donald Muir, Lloyds Bank, Ticketus, lawyers Collyer Bristow and administrators Duff and Phelps.
Murray, quizzed for more than two hours yesterday, said: “I have every confidence that they are going to look at this properly and professionally.
“As a result of this meeting I feel heartened and encouraged because these are proper people who are professionally diligent and it is clear to me they already have a grasp on the details surrounding what has gone on at the club over the last two or three years.
“It is crucial they find out who is responsible for the destruction of a Scottish institution then make these people pay for their actions.”
Yesterday Rangers chief executive Charles Green blamed the resulting 18 months of uncertainty for the liquidation of the club.
He said: “The thing that turned many people against Rangers, quite wrongly in my opinion, was the spectre of EBTs and to have that case awarded in favour of
Murray Group has been a substantial step.
“What we shouldn’t start getting carried away with is that this club would still have gone into administration. However, when the verdict came out would have changed things dramatically but my job now is to take the club forward.
“If a CVA had gone through we would still be playing in the SPL and perhaps even in Europe. It does get you really annoyed to think all of this hate and all the problems the fans have had to endure were for no real reason.
“We are where we are. We have said we will do what we said we’d do – and what Ally said he’d do – get the team out on the park week in week out and get promotion and work our way to the top division – whatever that top division is called.”
Above taken from here
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/official-probe-launched-into-demise-of-rangers-1462864
I hope BDO go back further than 3 years Mr Murray.
TheBlackKnight TBK says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 10:53
Agrajag says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 11:59
A point well made. Up until the FTTT result the £134m was widely reported/quoted and the source was mostly Duff & Duffer.
However I can see why Mr Cosgrove wanted to offer an apology, even though technically it can be argued that one was not required.
Of course we now all await for the ammended figure for the EBT tax bill and the related apology from Craig Whyte for the millions in taxes and penalities will never be paid.
That of course stands at an apparenlty uncontested £14m in PAYE/NI/VAT.
Presumably SDM will also be offering an apology for all the trouble he has caused when he hands in his cheque for and whatever the EBT issue ends up totalling? Or is that one (along with tax claims agianst the beneift in kind of a cheap loan) going to land in the lap of the poor suckers that took up the scheme.
TheBlackKnight TBK says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 11:57
1 0 Rate This
anyone any particular thoughts on “Newclubs” new name……
Can’t be anything to do with BDO or the Stock Exchange objection to trading name….. Did the Nomads have the gonads????…..
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/be8b6b37d99cb7db40a893754dd1e091/compdetails
Rangers International FC ??? Rangers Inter FC??? RIFC ??
Name & Registered Office:
RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
IBROX STADIUM
150 EDMISTON DRIVE
GLASGOW
UNITED KINGDOM
G51 2XD
Company No. SC437060
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 16/11/2012
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
None Supplied
Accounting Reference Date: 30/11
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 16/05/2014
Last Return Made Up To:
Next Return Due: 14/12/2013
Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
27/11/2012 RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC
———–
Dumb question nr 893:
Does the ‘accounts due’ date move forward (into the future) every time there’s a name change?
jimmyshand says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:17
==================
That’s actually a pretty accurate summation. Mr Green was once again playing to the crods and re-writing history.
Crowds, I do apologise.
From the Newcastle forum – See they have the same disregard for the press.
ashley wants ibronx to be sports direct arena – Newcastle United FC forum
Topic started: Thursday 29 November 2012 10:07 AM
Posted 29 Nov 2012 10:07ashley wants ibronx to be sports direct arena Or so the daily fail claim, wouldnt suprise me if true tbh, but give em 5% off in store im sure they will be happy
Posted 29 Nov 2012 10:19re: ashley wants ibronx to be sports direct arena Ashley isn’t that stupid:
1) It would pi55 off the Rangers fans so much they either boycott or vandalised his shops
2) It would pi55 off everyone else in Scotland who dislike Rangers
Posted 29 Nov 2012 10:27re: ashley wants ibronx to be sports direct arena He knew changing ours would pi§§ us off he still did it,
and surely they cant write ashley in talks if there isnt any shred of proof… Oh wait i just remembered how news papers work my bad
Posted 29 Nov 2012 11:18re: ashley wants ibronx to be sports direct arena
‘lnicho122’ wrote at 10:27 on 29 Nov:
He knew changing ours would pi§§ us off he still did it,
and surely they cant write ashley in talks if there isnt any shred of proof… Oh wait i just remembered how news papers work my bad
Yea, changing ours pi55ed us off, but didn’t bother anyone else.
Changing Ibrox would piss off 90% of Scotland…
TheBlackKnight TBK says: at 10:53
PS TheBlackKnight IS my real name 😉
You`re not?….are you?….couldn`t be…..blimey
[Better watch what you say guys 😕 ]
Top marks to STV for a decent bit of reporting on the BTC v CVA.
Maybe, just maybe we are getting through to some people that we expect more of this type of reporting to see through some of the bluster and nonesense.
ianagain says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:07
Well done someone at STV puts CGs CVA would have been possible nonesense to the sword.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/203241-rangers-tax-case-and-the-result-of-the-cva-your-questions-answered/
————————————————————————————————————————
Certainly an excellent objective piece of factual journalism which is clearly at odds with some of the cringe-worthy platforms STV allowed chico to spout his usual without any actual questioning – seemingly to disguise the ‘doing’ STV had received from BBC on the Rangers story.
If you look at the STV story copyright it states: © HEMEDIA / SWNS Group which suggests the copy was commissioned from outwith STV and given its quality I have no hesitation in believing that.
Don’t know who ‘HEMEDIA’ is but SWNS Group – if it is the group at the link below – is highly regarded for the professionalism of its output and shows the standards that Scottish MSM should have achieved. As we know they failed either because of the politics involved; not having enough qualified staff left, or cowardice of the editors especially with their job on the line as circulation plummets. They have yet to realise that their treatment of one of the biggest stories to hit Scotland in recent years will lose them even more readers.
http://www.swnsmediagroup.com/swnsnews.php
Is no news good news?
I was hoping that HMRC mayhave announced by now whether they are going to seek an appeal of the FTTT decision. I was encouraged by the earlier posting from TSFM that a reliable source had confirmed that an appeal would be lodged and that HMRC are confident of success in that matter.
Perhaps I am being impaitent. It would be good to hear some official news soon.
So, anyone know what this Rangers International Football Club PLC is all about?
And why Sevco 5088 is still alive and kicking?
Ach, never mind.
I guess we’ll find out in the prospectus.
angus1983 says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:13
I think your right. Motherwell when they played Rangers I dont think had the right mental attitude which should have been we are better than you and we can win this, whereas Caley have got their confidence up and have the mindset WE CAN DO THIS. Whoever can keep that mindset and fighting spirit going throughout the season will get their rewards.
My boys whilst Celtic fans have no real interest in the SPL, its all aout the Premiership and every Saturday and Sunday night they will be watching BBC highlights ( I refuse to get Sky Sports in) and show a passing interest in the SPL highlights. My hope is that at the end of this season for Celtic to have made a good impact on the CL and other teams in the SPL get past the early qualifying stages for next season. It is only when Scottish Club teams are succesful or are at least competing in Europe will the interest in the domestic league return to the younger generation. The same could also be said about the National team.
Rangers International FC ??? Rangers Inter FC??? RIFC ??
Name & Registered Office:
RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
IBROX STADIUM
150 EDMISTON DRIVE
GLASGOW
UNITED KINGDOM
G51 2XD
Company No. SC437060
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 16/11/2012
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
None Supplied
Accounting Reference Date: 30/11
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 16/05/2014
Last Return Made Up To:
Next Return Due: 14/12/2013
Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
27/11/2012 RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC
———–
This is appears not to be Chucks.
Ragers Football PLC was only set up by Edward Laurence Lumb on Nov 20th 2012
He is also a director of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP ????
Ref STV piece …… but it does talk about the “victory” at the FTTT.
stv stepped up on more than one occasion now for accuracy, in stark contrast to others reporting such as this morning’s example that the interim liquidators seem to have been bestowed early new official powers by the DR this morning after some helpful advice from PM to point them in the right direction.
One of the Charles Green Myth Machine myths debunked in some detail. What others is it churning out?
http://sport.stv.tv/blog/203241-rangers-tax-case-and-the-result-of-the-cva-your-questions-answered/
Good work by STV Grant.
“Murray said the inquiry should stretch back as far as three years …”
——
My goodness. As long as THAT?
ianagain says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:30
From the Newcastle forum –
“Changing Ibrox would piss off 90% of Scotland…”
——
The guy’s right enough. Given the 500 million global fanbase of TRFC, it stands to reason that 90% of Scotland are TRFC supporters.
The other 10%, I’m sure, couldn’t give a hoot.
I’m sure I read last week that there will be a further delay to the proposed share issue/prospectus release. If the belief held by many that this was to assist with working capital then I wonder how long it will take to affect club cash flow?
Do whatever they are now officially calling themselves actually have secure banking facilities that will cover a seasons fluctuations?
Perhaps the authorities and/or the MSM are keeping an eye on events this time, given they were all shown to be woefully inadequate when the original club was liquidated…..with as CG said when DK mentioned this was probable, and I paraphrase ” it’s loss of history and tradition” ?
Finally, I hope Mr Murray doesn’t some day regret his vote of confidence in the professionalism of BDO when it comes to concluding the investigation into who were to blame/guilty in the lead up to the demise.
jimmyshand says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:49
Rangers International etc etc
Its all the same group of guys.
Lumb is with Fisher Field Waterhouse whose address at 35 Vine Street London was used to set up Sevco 5088 and they are Charley’s advisors for the IPO.
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:39
5 0 Rate This
Is no news good news?
I was hoping that HMRC mayhave announced by now whether they are going to seek an appeal of the FTTT decision. I was encouraged by the earlier posting from TSFM that a reliable source had confirmed that an appeal would be lodged and that HMRC are confident of success in that matter.
Perhaps I am being impaitent. It would be good to hear some official news soon.
………….
Personally I think an appeal is looking ever more likely The reaction from Murray has been pretty weak over the last week or so, he had his “there is no winner” moment a while back and a feeble statement regarding the likes of RTC, again a very weak response. Hardly the triumphalism we would have expected.
For me most telling sign is good old Uncle Walter keeping his powder dry. Walters timing is always impeccable. He’s like one of those old dogs who can smell a storm, if he cowers behind the sofa it means a storm is brewing. He is certainly not venturing far from that sofa at the moment.
iamacant says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:24
ACCOUNTS firm BDO will look into the liquidation of the Ibrox club in the aftermath of Craig Whyte’s £15m unpaid PAYE bill with criminal prosecutions a real threat.
=======================
That is totally misleading. The registered taxpayer was Rangers, not Craig Whyte. It is Rangers’ unpaid bill, no-one else’s.
As stated before, the FTT ruling in relation to Falkirk’s unpaid bill specifically in relation to the actions of senior officers of the company, makes that perfectly clear.
The actions of the board are the actions of the company. the decisions of the board are the decisions of the company. It is not Craig Whyte’s unpaid bill, it is Rangers’ unpaid bill.
Just another example of the slow incessant propaganda war i’m afraid. Say it often enough and keep repeating it and it will become accepted.
It’s like the “SPL EBT investigation”, or “SPL dual contracts investigation”. Say it often enough and people will start repeating it and believing it.
Dave Stoker (livingston chief) seems annoyed new league reform plans don’t involve a move to summer football. Or at least a winter shut down.
he is tweeting some comments about the reformed league proposals
(sorry, read from bottom up)
David Stoker @davidstoker_lfc
If Scottish football is serious about changing for the better then a lengthy winter break and much shorter summer one is essential.
4m
David Stoker @davidstoker_lfc
Rather than play in better weather we’d rather clubs spend a mint on burying miles of pipe to heat up the ground. Absolute madness.
5m
David Stoker @davidstoker_lfc
…which I find incredible. It makes no sense to play football when its freezing cold. Either in terms of pitch problems or attracting fans.
7m
David Stoker @davidstoker_lfc
Interesting to note that changing the Scottish football calendar does (not?) seem to feature in the ‘way forward’ from the SFL or SPL…
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:39
Is no news good news? I was hoping that HMRC mayhave announced by now whether they are going to seek an appeal of the FTTT decision. I was encouraged by the earlier posting from TSFM that a reliable source had confirmed that an appeal would be lodged and that HMRC are confident of success in that matter.
——————————————————-
I would think that as soon as HMRC received the FTTT decision it would have had discussions with others in that organisation about the politics and/or merits of appealing. Once a decision had been made to appeal in principle then the next step would be for HMRC to consult its counsel regarding the chances of a successful apeal. It would take counsel some time to review the tribunal’s decision and prepare the necessary advice to its client. After that HMRC would then have to take the final decision to launch its appeal. Given such procedures, I’m not surprised we are still waiting on definite news from Hector.
Tommy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 13:44
========================
Agreed. They have plenty of time to make the decision so there is no real reason to rush it.
Particularly as the current decision is not precedent setting. They will not only have to decide on the likeliehood of succes on the merits of the specific case, but also the rammifications of failure at an UTT, which would set precedent for such cases in the FTT.
It’s a big decision, with huge impact, way beyond the few millions involved in the old club’s appeal. Particularly as they are unlikely to get that money anyway (directly from the old club, anyway).
They really need to decide how winnable the appeal is and offset that against the problems it causes if they fail. As you suggest, a big decision and not one to be rushed.
(they will probably announce their decision at 15:00 now I have said that)
Regarding league reconstruction. IMO it is going to be forced through for the start of next season.
It has already been delayed too long for ITS REAL PURPOSE. There will be no drawn out discussions, the plans are already made as they have been from the end of last season.
Legal issues will have been dealt with long before now by Topping, Ogilvy and the rest.
I think it is going to happen quickly, an agreement will be announced in as little time as a month from now.
What’s in a name?
For ref:
SC004276 (oldco)
27/05/1899 THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB PLC incorporated
31/07/2012 renamed as RFC 2012 PLC
08011390
29/03/2012 SEVCO 5088 LIMITED incorporated
SC425159
29/05/2012 SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED incorporated
31/07/2012 renamed as THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD
SC437060
16/11/2012 RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC incorporated
27/11/2012 renamed as RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
I’d now guess that the gullible bears will be asked to subscribe for shares in Rangers International Football Club PLC once a prospectus is finally issued. I think it has to be named as a PLC for a public share offering.
Oh dear, with all of these Rangers flying about, which entity will actually be collecting the cash ?
Or is that the plan, confuse everyone and make the trail difficult to follow
And for the record, this is idle speculation, and in no way is it meant to cast aspersions on anyone
Mr Cosgrove’s apology on here showed the real meaning of dignity. What are the chances of the Succulent Lambers like [Traynor] apologising to RTC and other bloggers if RFC /MIH face and lose an appeal?
Between Zero chance and No chance is my guess.
From the Acronym Attic
Possible Meanings Rank
Rhode Island Free Clinic *
RotoGuru Invitational Football Challenge *
Royal Iansislean Flying Corps *
Richfield Interagency Fire Center *
Anybody fancy a job as a Spin Doctor?
Read This
well spotted TJB
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 09:25
“Record Sport revealed last week London accounts firm BDO had agreed to hunt down those responsible for the demise of the Ibrox club, forced under when former owner Craig Whyte ran up almost £15million in unpaid PAYE.
Question
Have Record Sport persuaded a London accounts firm to agree to hunt down those responsible for the demise of the Ibrox club?
Nope
The Reality?
Under the Insolvency Act 1986 BDO have a statutory duty to investigate the causes of RFC’s failure and the conduct of its managers, in the wider public interest of action being taken against those engaged in commercially culpable conduct.
Liquidators don`t make agreements with newspapers or anyone else to carry out something that is part of their normal duties.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Another example from the same piece in the same rag
“Former director Paul Murray called on BDO to carry out the investigation as a matter of urgency and insisted any suspected “guilty parties” should be hauled into court and pursued for damages.
Murray, quizzed for more than two hours yesterday, said: “I have every confidence that they are going to look at this properly and professionally.
“As a result of this meeting I feel heartened and encouraged because these are proper people who are professionally diligent and it is clear to me they already have a grasp on the details surrounding what has gone on at the club over the last two or three years.”
Question
Does anyone think Paul Murray went to see BDO to demand they carry out the investigation as a matter of urgency?
Nope
Paul was summoned by BDO to answer questions as part of their investigation.
Or alternatively.
RIFC Radioactive Illuminated Fire Control
RIFC Redeemer International Family Church
(Ive as many of these as Chuckles has companies)
Ye couldnae make it up, Part #94 …
Seeing as I have tomorrow off work, today is the day for my Friday RM looksee, which I usually use to entertain myself by reading tripe before the weekend.
So … an Admin on RM posted a reminder three days ago that persons should be careful about their choice of language and “insult” on the forum, and that FOCUS are keeping a close eye on them.
In three days the thread has grown to 18 pages, mostly concluding that they have a right to free speech – and therefore their usual descriptions of the Celtic support, club heirarchy (past and present) and the Catholic faith are entirely within the law.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/charles-green-on-how-the-big-tax-case-harmed-rangers-and-why-he-is-wrong/
ianagain says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 14:41
How’s About just for BDO maybe RIFC= Research Into Former Club
briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 11:15
stuartcosgrove says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 18:50
Here’s a question I’m not sure if we have debated on here but I’d like to hear your opinion on why you think the SPL has become more competitive this year, practically every game has had real significance on league position. So why is that? is it becuase Rangers aren’t there and the mindset of teams is changing, they are thinking if I put that bit of extra effort we could acheive something this year, what is it ? Would it have been as competitive if Rangers remained in the SPL ?
========================================================================
Of course it is because Rangers aren’t in the SPL. If you listened to SSB and read the Daily Record a bit more you would already know this. And on Radio Shortbread its almost the only thing Murdo McLeod can say amongst his struggle to understand the maths underlying this “enigma”.
Agrajag says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 13:37
The actions of the board are the actions of the company. The decisions of the board are the decisions of the company.
——
Ah, but are they the actions and decisions of the CLUB? 😉
Goosy, Paul Murray must think our heads button up the back, that garbage about “the last two to three years” investigation merely shows once again that he and many others are still trying to protect (S)DM from payback for all his errors and transgressions whilst Chairman and main shareholder. He must be taking lessons from the DR and JT. The Liquidators must go back to 2001.
easyJambo says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 14:13
What’s in a name?
27/11/2012 renamed as RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
I’d now guess that the gullible bears will be asked to subscribe for shares in Rangers International Football Club PLC once a prospectus is finally issued.
————————————————————————————————————-
The question is to me is where are the 22+ million shares which have been paid for and issued to the members of the original consortium. Which company holds these shares?
It isn’t RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC which only has £1 share capital held by FFW Secretaries Ltd.
With reference to the STV piece, I think the following is not accurate:
“This £5.5m deal resulted in the newco being unsuccessful in applying to become a member of Scottish Premier League, before being forced to start life in the Third Division while the Scottish Football Association transferred Rangers’ membership to it.”
1. The deal did not result in the newco being unsuccessful in its SPL application. Rather, the SPL rules did not allow a new club direct entry into the SPL.
2. The newco was not forced to start life in the 3rd Division. In fact, the normal rules of the SFL were set aside to allow the newco into the 3rd Div.
bogsdollox says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 15:20
You are right, I don’t listen to SSB regularly and I couldn’t tell you the last time I bought the record, shocking.I shall heed your advice…..which I’m sure if I’m reading you correctly, is don’t bother 🙂 Obviously it is the fact Rangers aren’t there but it will be interesting to see how Rangers and the other teams fair once they do get back up, which personally speaking I hope is not to soon.
angus1983 says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 15:03
It’s the bitter Orange mentality, will it go “International” like their club 🙂
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 16:12
easyJambo says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 14:13
What’s in a name?
27/11/2012 renamed as RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
I’d now guess that the gullible bears will be asked to subscribe for shares in Rangers International Football Club PLC once a prospectus is finally issued.
————————————————————————————————————-
The question is to me is where are the 22+ million shares which have been paid for and issued to the members of the original consortium. Which company holds these shares?
It isn’t RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC which only has £1 share capital held by FFW Secretaries Ltd.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The share capital of RIFC Plc will be increased and the 22 million shares in RFC will be swapped for them once clearance is obtained from HMRC that there is no tax avoidance motive in the transaction.
Also when listing on AIM it simplifies the process if the company to be listed has no prior trading history and no debt hence the share for share swop is normal business practice.
angus1983 says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 15:03
Ye couldnae make it up, Part #94 …
Admin on RM posted a reminder three days ago that persons should be careful about their choice of language and “insult” on the forum, and that FOCUS are keeping a close eye on them.
———————————————————————————————————————-
The Admin pointed out that RM had to give details of posters to Focus and advised fans to contact FOCUS before they got a knock on the door.
A lot of RM posters wanted to go to subscription only so they could carry on as ‘normal’ with no prying eyes to report them to FOCUS. Interestingly the Admin argument against did centre on money that would be lost if ‘visitor’ traffic declined.
And here was me hoping it might have something to do with human decency and not reduced advertising revenue 🙁
I’m still looking at Cenkos and wondered if anybody can definitively tell me which ‘Cenkos’ Charles Green is dealing with?
If you remember, the founder – Andy Stewart – (listed in Debrett’s, no less) left the Company but the took the Channel Islands’ operation of the Company with him, no doubt at very reasonable terms.
Probably not relevant but, interestingly, he went on to make a £1.6billion bid for Close Brothers.
iamacant says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:24
13 0 i
Rate This
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 09:25
Official probe launched into demise of Rangers as ex-director Paul Murray warns people will ‘pay’ for destroying club
ACCOUNTS firm BDO will look into the liquidation of the Ibrox club in the aftermath of Craig Whyte’s £15m unpaid PAYE bill with criminal prosecutions a real threat.
LIQUIDATORS have officially launched a full-scale probe into the circumstances surrounding the sinking of Rangers which could lead to criminal prosecutions and legal cases worth tens of millions of pounds.
Record Sport revealed last week London accounts firm BDO had agreed to hunt down those responsible for the demise of the Ibrox club, forced under when former owner Craig Whyte ran up almost £15million in unpaid PAYE.
Former director Paul Murray called on BDO to carry out the investigation as a matter of urgency and insisted any suspected “guilty parties” should be hauled into court and pursued for damages.
Murray said the inquiry should stretch back as far as three years to include the circumstances surrounding Whyte’s takeover, the Big Tax Case bill and the conduct of other key players Donald Muir, Lloyds Bank, Ticketus, lawyers Collyer Bristow and administrators Duff and Phelps.
Murray, quizzed for more than two hours yesterday, said: “I have every confidence that they are going to look at this properly and professionally.
“As a result of this meeting I feel heartened and encouraged because these are proper people who are professionally diligent and it is clear to me they already have a grasp on the details surrounding what has gone on at the club over the last two or three years.
“It is crucial they find out who is responsible for the destruction of a Scottish institution then make these people pay for their actions.”
Yesterday Rangers chief executive Charles Green blamed the resulting 18 months of uncertainty for the liquidation of the club.
He said: “The thing that turned many people against Rangers, quite wrongly in my opinion, was the spectre of EBTs and to have that case awarded in favour of
Murray Group has been a substantial step.
“What we shouldn’t start getting carried away with is that this club would still have gone into administration. However, when the verdict came out would have changed things dramatically but my job now is to take the club forward.
“If a CVA had gone through we would still be playing in the SPL and perhaps even in Europe. It does get you really annoyed to think all of this hate and all the problems the fans have had to endure were for no real reason.
“We are where we are. We have said we will do what we said we’d do – and what Ally said he’d do – get the team out on the park week in week out and get promotion and work our way to the top division – whatever that top division is called.”
Above taken from here
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/official-probe-launched-into-demise-of-rangers-1462864
I hope BDO go back further than 3 years Mr Murray
________________________________________________________________________
BDO have no real interest in the WHYTE era – his calumnies were clear and public and had the subtlety of a Sounness challenge on a certain Icelandic individual. His actions are clear and obvious,
BDO are far more interested in the earlier shenanigans – both to unravel the layers of deceit and obfuscation encountered and to see if similar cultures could be extant in other football clubs of similar size say south of the border or in other medium sized companies operating within the UK.
It is a rare opportunity methinks of having liquidators have free rein to explore the machinations of serial tax avoiders ( legally for the present for the most part obviously ) in action. Obviously should any factual discrepancies emerge then …
jimmyshand says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:49
This is appears not to be Chucks.
Ragers Football PLC was only set up by Edward Laurence Lumb on Nov 20th 2012
He is also a director of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP ????
————————————————————————————————————-
Reigstered Office is Ibrox Stadium – it quite probably is the AIM Flotation vehicle. Whether chico ends up as a director or shareholder should be revealed in the prospectus.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/new-rangers-plc-director-linked-to-harper-macleod-exclusive-revelation-by-ecojon/
bogsdollox says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 16:18
The share capital of RIFC Plc will be increased and the 22 million shares in RFC will be swapped for them once clearance is obtained from HMRC that there is no tax avoidance motive in the transaction.
Also when listing on AIM it simplifies the process if the company to be listed has no prior trading history and no debt hence the share for share swop is normal business practice.
——————————————————————————————————————–
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 16:12
The question is to me is where are the 22+ million shares which have been paid for and issued to the members of the original consortium. Which company holds these shares?
It isn’t RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC which only has £1 share capital held by FFW Secretaries Ltd.
———————————————————————————————————————
@ bogsdollox – had a quiet smile at the ‘no trading history’. However the only other company I thought of as a possibility for holding the 22+ million shares is The Rangers Football Club Ltd but no SH01 form has been submitted to Companies House with regard to share capital being increased from 2 to 22+ million + 2. In view of the fact that many of the original consortium who hold these shares are foreign nationals based overseas have you any idea how long it would take HMRC to make the necessary checks?
goosygoosy says:
“Record Sport revealed last week London accounts firm BDO had agreed to hunt down those responsible for the demise of the Ibrox club, forced under when former owner Craig Whyte ran up almost £15million in unpaid PAYE.
This really makes me chuckle!
The battle alluded to in the title of this thread is all about the MSM locking horns with the bampots, and this struggle is just beginning! It was the failure of the MSM to call Murray and Whyte on the nature and substance of the take over in May 2011, that is, at this moment, the key juncture of this story. (so far!)
The story goes that a bad man duped Sir David and tarnished the reputation of the club by not paying any of his (the clubs) debts. Had Sir David known what a carpet bagger Whyte was, he would never have sold the business to such a malevolent individual. What role did our ever vigilant fourth estate play in Whyte’s take over? We all remember the head lines (most from the campaigning Record) ‘Motherwell born millionaire’, ‘wealth off the radar’, ‘30 million war chest’ etc. etc
To be so wide of the mark on such a crucial episode, tipped the balance in the public mind. Such a flagrant dereliction of duty left the MSM and the Record in particular bleeding in a ditch, while those who wanted to know, switched their attentions to blogs such as RTC, where they could get factual information and a forensic analysis that Jabba and co simply could not, or would not provide. I thought Stuart Cosgrove played it right again at the weekend. A touch of humility, a gereralised apology along with an acceptance of the FTT decision with good grace, was an appropriate response on a number of levels, not least to prevent a situation where the discussion descends to a level of toys flying out of prams from all corners. Give Jabba and Murray their moment, I suspect there will be more sticky stuff heading for a fan near them soon.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 15:09
======================
Excellent piece by, Paul.
Is he accusing Mr Green of mendacity, surely not.
PS I used my real name because its my real name and I sincerely believe we have to take ‘secrecy,’ ‘paranoia’ and ‘fear’ out of this debate too.
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
So, Stuart can you clarify why you needed to write this please?
In the late 70’s I was attacked by a large mob of very angry peepil in your own fair city.
They rearranged my face, jumped as hard as they could on my head, punched, spat while they
insulted my faith with extremely inarticulate language. In short, they left me for dead!
For them, it was probably a pleasant interlude to their attempts at flute playing; for me, it was terrifying. I was taken by ambulance to Perth Royal Infirmary thankfully.
My injuries still give problems Stuart.
I don’t like these peepil, I don’t like the odds they seem to favour (About 20 against 1 skinny teenager.) I think if you hammered big nails through their heads, they would be corkscrews when they appeared at the other side, their minds are so twisted!
So, I hope you understand when I choose to stick with the fear, secrecy and paranoia Mr. Cosgrove.
If you think they’ve moved on since the 70’s, check out some of the forums that get mentioned
on this blog.
Naw, I think I’ll just stay as ‘Yakutsuki’ but thanks for your input, totally enjoyed the rest of your post.
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 16:49
———————————————————————————————————————
@ bogsdollox – had a quiet smile at the ‘no trading history’. However the only other company I thought of as a possibility for holding the 22+ million shares is The Rangers Football Club Ltd but no SH01 form has been submitted to Companies House with regard to share capital being increased from 2 to 22+ million + 2. In view of the fact that many of the original consortium who hold these shares are foreign nationals based overseas have you any idea how long it would take HMRC to make the necessary checks?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s a very straightforward application to HMRC and will be cleared in 30 days. It doesn’t matter where the current shareholders are located. With the existence of nominee companies/trusts etc it would be impossible to ascertain who actually beneficially owned the shares anyway.
HMRC will only be checking that the proposed transaction is for bone fide commercial reasons and is not tax avoidance, which it isn’t (this time)
David McCloy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 09:57
That’s a fair point if they are in with a chance, the crazy thing with the split is that some teams who are in the lower 6 end can end up with more points than those in top 6 at the end ot the season albeit they are playing teams in the lower half.
briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 17:21
That’s a fair point if they are in with a chance, the crazy thing with the split is that some teams who are in the lower 6 end can end up with more points than those in top 6 at the end ot the season albeit they are playing teams in the lower half.
======================================================================
FFS!! Don’t ever mention that unusual mathematical outcome to Murdo McLeod or his head will quite literally explode.
He’s having enough trouble already figuring out where the points Rangers normally take of the Diddy teams in the SPL have gone this season.
Yakutsuki
Very moving post.
Once violence and intimidation are removed from Scottish football – and that means from one club in particular – then secrecy, paranoia and fear would automatically disappear too. The former needs to happen before the latter has any chance of happening.
I lived with a rapid response alarm unit for over six months because I happened to express a view publicly, using my real name. I live abroad now, partly because of what happened then, (I wont give the graphic detail as you have.) It was the most terrifying six months of my life.
I can imagine what you felt like when you heard the First Minister using the phrase, “The fabric of society.” I felt the same.
I am also sure that Stuart Cosgrove knows this. In fact, I seem to remember Stuart talking about an occasion when he was being followed in his car after a particular broadcast. He was too frightened to stop at his own house for fear of his assailants finding out where he lived, and drove past to a local garage.
I also know that Stuart and Tam wont venture into Glasgow for a pint after their Saturday broadcasts. The hotel across the road from the BBC suffices for safety reasons I think. But I may be wrong.
No one from the Establishment has really taken this aspect of Scottish football seriously. I do not believe this problem should be laid at the door of bloggers who choose to remain anonymous.
mmm I wonder ….will the succulent slugs refer to ibrox as always, or will they adopt its new name (if the fabled sd stadium re naming myth actually happens.).
…as in rangers-the rangers..whats the difference ?
jimmyshand on Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:49
Common practice for a company lawyer to register a company on behalf of their client. In fact, ALL of Chuckles companies relating to T*RFC have been registered by this lawyers.
Danish Pastry, as first glance it looks yes, however it is only less than a month older than it’s predecessor The Rangers Football PLC
I wonder if this is an attempt to mislead the gullible again?
Thanks ‘Doontheslope’, sorry to hear of your own problems, so very sad.
My earlier post was not the only time I faced intimidation by their kind, not by a long chalk, but
was the worst by far.
Surprised to get a ‘TD’ though, maybe I deserved this attempt on my life? Or, perhaps it’s just
a case of ‘Don’t mention the war.’ Haha.
yakutsuki
I dont think TD’s will be through lack of empathy. Maybe we are veering off topic. Anyway, good luck to you. (Forgiveness is a tough, but very effective, medicine, btw.)
TheBlackKnight TBK says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 18:11
0 0 Rate This
jimmyshand on Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 12:49
Common practice for a company lawyer to register a company on behalf of their client. In fact, ALL of Chuckles companies relating to T*RFC have been registered by this lawyers.
Danish Pastry, as first glance it looks yes, however it is only less than a month older than it’s predecessor The Rangers Football PLC
I wonder if this is an attempt to mislead the gullible again?
————
Thanks TBK, very confusing with so many companies. I’ve no idea which one is the actual newco football club! If it’s only been a month then hardly relevant, although if this all started with Sevco it would have pushed tbe first accounts due well into the future. That was my naive reasoning.
Creating lots of companies couldn’t just be a way of guarding against icebergs ahead, could it? Watertight compartments and all that?
TSFM says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:43
39
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puzzlingresult says:
Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 21:25(Edit)
Well, HMRC have been busy since the release of a certain tax case result. A lot of ebt holders have received letters requesting copies of the loan documents, interest calculations and minutes / letters. I wonder why? Squeaky bum time for some footballers and administrators?
______________________________________________________________________
Do you have a source for that?
Sorry for the delay in replying – one of my clients has received said letter
Danish Pastry on Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 18:41
Yes indeed. Deliberately so.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd was previously Sevco Scotland the holding company that purchased Rangers 1872,s history and assets. This company is held by Sevco 5088 registered in England.
Rangers Football PLC was registered as the proposed renamed ‘vehicle’ for the The Rangers Football Club Ltd which it is hoped will be floated on the stock market.
Strangely, within a matter of days, this company has been remamed to Rangers International Football Club Plc
Wonder why Mr Green and his erstwhile bunch of billionaire investors and the 0.5Billion worldwide fans did not just register a new company vehicle to be the PLC as Rangers Football Club PLC or The Rangers Football Club PLC?
Very odd indeed for a continuation of the same company
😉
youtawknaboot says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 18:02
mmm I wonder ….will the succulent slugs refer to ibrox as always, or will they adopt its new name
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The inside scoop from RM is that some of them are absolutely set against the idea, some will call it Ibrox anyway, some wouldn’t mind a name change as long it was a respected traditional British brand like “Jaguar” … pause for reflection … that’s right, Jaguar are owned by the Indian company Tata … as you were, now … and some don’t mind as long as it’s not the “Ploughman’s Mayo Stadium”.
So. “Ploughman’s Mayo Stadium” it is then? 🙂
puzzlingresult says:
Thursday, November 29, 2012 at 18:56
Sorry for the delay in replying – one of my clients has received said letter
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Interesting, Mr Result.
Care to quote said letter – or redact, scan and post to photobucket or similar?