Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
To bogsdollox –
DOS28;
From : Gary Withey
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:29 AM
To : Julian Hedley;
Pauline Sutton
Cc: Peter Hackleton
Subject: Re: Outstanding Invoices
Pauline. Craig has approved this payment for today. Julian can you now put in the appeal.
We cannot afford to miss the date.
Regards
Gary Withey
Partner
It seems to suggest [1] there was Company operating funds being kept outwith the entity, [2] appears CW was in authority & it appears ultimately in full control of this account & said funds.
Where that leaves this action???
Rangers liquidators to plough ahead with Collyer Bristow ‘conspiracy’ trial
6 November 2012
The action was initially brought by the administrators of of RFC 2012 (the old company), Duff & Phelps partners Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, who alleged that the firm was involved in a “deliberate deception” in relation to former partner Gary Withey’s role in businessman Craig Whyte’s 2011 takeover of the club.
Withey has labelled the allegations “groundless” and an “outrage” while Collyer Bristow business development director Paul Newhall said the proceedings were paused as the firm is waiting for a response from BDO on security of costs. He said: “Our position remains unchanged and we’ll defend vigorously the claims brought by Duff & Phelps.”
Hearts administration imminent
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-set-go-administration-today-1958653
HEARTS are on the verge of being plunged into administration this afternoon.
Record Sport can reveal that crisis-ravaged Edinburgh club are to announce at the court of session in Edinburgh later today that they intend to appoint accountancy firm KPMG as administrators.
Chief executive David Southern will also brief staff at Tynecastle over the development which will leave their jobs in jeopardy.
Hearts will now face starting next season in the SPL with a 15 point deduction for breaching the top flight’s new insolvency rules.
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:20 pm
4 0 Rate This
I see CF has returned to Jack Irvine
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Both of those individuals mentioned are unknown names to me.
Danish Pastry says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:51 pm
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ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:20 pm
4 0 Rate This
I see CF has returned to Jack Irvine
————-
Both of those individuals mentioned are unknown names to me.
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Then why not read this from KDS:
Danish Pastry says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:51 pm
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0
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ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:20 pm
4 0 Rate This
I see CF has returned to Jack Irvine
————-
Both of those individuals mentioned are unknown names to me.
Danish Pastry says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:51 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:20 pm
4 0 Rate This
I see CF has returned to Jack Irvine
————-
Both of those individuals mentioned are unknown names to me.
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Interesting stuff:
Sunday Mirror
May 7, 2000, Sunday
MONTE CARLO.. OR BUST?;
EXCLUSIVE: SURE THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS WHEN I LEFT SCOTLAND.. BUT I’M TOO BUSY GETTING ON WITH LIFE TO WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE BACK THERE WITH AN AXE TO GRIND
BYLINE: Isabel Oakeshott In Monte Carlo
HE WAS a young, self-made millionaire who fled Scotland under the shadow of a massive tax investigation.
Craig Whyte, 29, vanished amid a flurry of lawsuits and allegations that his debts could top pounds 4 million.
But while his furious former employees and disgruntled debtors try to pick up the pieces back home, Whyte, who has appeared alongside David Beckham and Prince Naseem in a list of Britain’s top 20 rich young people last year, is living in luxury in Monte Carlo, the tax haven of the super- rich.
Now, for the first time since he abandoned Scotland, the man who was once called “the next Richard Branson”, has talked about his controversial career – and insists he has a clear conscience.
He claims: “I don’t owe anyone any money – least of all the taxman.
“I know people said I was trying to run away from my problems, but I have nothing whatsoever to hide.”
The young tycoon, reputedly worth around pounds 20 million, is even planning to expand his business empire.
His playboy lifestyle may rankle with those who were left crying out for their money in Scotland, but Whyte is not losing any sleep over their accusations.
As he sips a cappuccino by Monte Carlo Harbour, he says: “I’m too busy getting on with my life to worry about people with an axe to grind.
“Yes, there were a lot of problems before I left Scotland. The Inland Revenue have not yet informed me if they have finished investigating, but as far as I am concerned, everything was sorted out before I left.”
Those “problems” include the fact that, when he left Scotland, many of Whyte’s companies appeared to be on the verge of collapse.
Vital UK Ltd, the company he acquired in 1993 and built up into a conglomerate, providing services to the construction industry, retail stores and local authorities, went into voluntary liquidation three years later with debts totalling pounds 600,000.
Last year, a damning report by the liquidators suggested he had struck a secret deal to transfer the failing company’s assets to the Bahamas.
The report also hinted that he had failed to register some of his employees for PAYE tax.
He ended up at the High Court where his legal team admitted that he owed pounds 3.5 million to a single creditor.
Around the same time, some members of the 700-strong workforce from his network of companies threatened to riot over unpaid wages.
In a humiliating showdown, a band of disgruntled staff staged a public protest at the company’s offices in Glasgow’s Shettlestone, and his money men were forced to hand over the cash to the workers on the spot.
He was also being pursued by a Glasgow woman over an unpaid industrial tribunal award. He recalls: “There were people who were jealous of me, and were out to get me. I was young and portrayed as successful, and rivals were envious.” For the man who lived in West End, went to the city’s exclusive Kelvinside Academy and was tipped to be the new David Murray, it appeared to be a shocking fall from grace, but Whyte now insists it has never got him down.
He says: “Everything was sorted out satisfactorily. The claim that I owed pounds 3.5 million was a tactic by my legal team to help my case against people who were pursuing me.”
Whyte also rubbished claims that workers went unpaid, describing it as an “administrative error”.
“It was all down to a change in the payroll system,” he says, casually dismissing the matter with a wave of the hand. “It was simply just a misunderstanding.”
Whyte is the first to admit that he has made mistakes in the past. His first company, which he had established at the age of 19, went bust when he was 21.
But the tycoon who left school a stockmarket whizz-kid with pounds 20,000 in the bank, simply turned his attentions to other ventures.
His hunger for success may have come from his father.
A successful entrepreneur in his own right, Tom Whyte, now 53, built up a thriving company dealing in heavy plant hire.
His son joined it when he was 17 before he set up a similar operation himself. As a teenager he had a burning hunger for success.
He says: “I started playing the stockmarket when I was 14 or 15. All that I had was a bit of pocket money I had saved and I remember thinking I wanted more.
“Paper rounds weren’t going to make me that much, so I picked up the phone and opened an account with a stockbroker. Luckily, they didn’t ask me how old I was.”
By the time he left school at 17, Whyte had more money than most of his teachers. Through shrewd stocks and shares manipulation he had amassed more than pounds 20,000.
TODAY, he is savouring his last Sunday as a free man before marrying Glasgow -born Kim Martin, 30, in Florida. The couple, who met in Scotland, are jetting to Venice for a short break before the ceremony takes place at Miami’s Ritz Carlton next Saturday.
Kim, who went to exclusive St Leonard’s Boarding School For Girls in St Andrews, backs Whyte entirely, saying: “I love Craig and can’t wait until we get married.
“He never did anything wrong. He is probably the biggest young business success story to come out of Scotland and it’s very hurtful to hear people saying these things.” During the week the couple usually work from home – a pounds 1million luxury apartment with a rooftop terrace just one street back from the sea-front.
There, in what has become the nerve centre of his international business empire, they plot Whyte’s next financial project, with Kim as her fiance’s personal assistant. Whyte, who made his fortune through a string of business ventures in security, construction and office cleaning, currently has business interests in America, Spain, Switzerland and the Bahamas – in fields of technology, marketing and re -cycling.
Exactly how healthy that empire is remains unclear.
Whyte admits that financial considerations were uppermost when he and Kim decided to move to Monte Carlo. The key attraction, they say, was the fact that they would not have to pay income tax on any money they made.Now, they both have permanent residency in the Principality and don’t know when they’ll return to Scotland. Kim is happy with her new home, she drives a top-of-the-range Jeep, has developed a taste for designer clothes and loves the climate.
She says: “I wouldn’t swap it for anything. The temperature here never drops below 15C and we have made so many good friends.
“I feel so safe here. In Glasgow, you can’t even walk about in the evenings, but out here there is virtually no crime.
“You can leave bags of shopping in the back of your convertible and they’ll still be there when you return. I could walk down the street with millions of pounds’ worth of jewellery and no one would look twice.”
In Monte Carlo, their favourite night-spot is Restaurant Sass. Before dinner, the couple sip champagne at the Mahogany Bar and exchange pleasantries with other wealthy ex-pats. It’s a place where cut-glass English accents are more in place than French.
Kim says proudly: “Craig stands out from the crowd in Monaco because he is so young. He is regarded as something quite special. Most people don’t make his kind of money until they’re much older.”
She adds: “There are often famous faces around. We found ourselves sitting right behind David Coulthard and his girlfriend Heidi on a plane from Monaco recently.
“Everybody here was shocked when they heard he’d been involved in that plane crash.” But back in Scotland, the torment left behind by Whyte has not been forgotten.
Many of Whyte’s staff in Scotland were members of the GMB union. Yesterday, a union spokesman said: “It’s an absolute scandal. Our members are struggling to make ends meet, while Craig Whyte has his nose buried in the trough in Monte Carlo.”
Then there’s security guard Patricia Palmer, who won an industrial tribunal against one of Whyte’s firms in 1997 and was awarded pounds 2,791, but two years later had still not received her money.
At the time, the mother-of-two from Glasgow’s Easterhouse said: “What sort of way is this for a big businessman to treat his staff? When will I get my money?
“If I ever get my hands on Whyte, I will make sure he pays me. I’ve been going through hell.”
Meanwhile,Whyte is finding it’s not quite so tough in the rich people’s paradise of Monte Carlo.
Bigsdollox 3.57
Rangers had a bit of luck in that whatever was submitted to UEFA by the SFA under Article 66 was good enough to convince UEFA that Rangers were not in breach of Article 64 indicator 4 in having an overdue payable.
The consequences of this are that they were not required to submit Future Financial information from Sept onwards.
Now that was a lucky break for Rangers, the SFA and UEFA as it would possibly have highlighted the fact you mention.
Bogsdollox
Sorry about typo unless you prefer that name. 🙂
ForresDee said on June 17, 2013 at 11:33 am
My thoughts on the legal reasons for not mentioning Charlotte have now changed from simple complicity of the MSM (although I’ll reserve my position on that for some of them) to simply the rules around reporting of ongoing police investigation, whether into charlotte herself or her information supplier or maybe even (if we are lucky) the issues that bring us here.
_______________________________________________________________
Let me make it clear that as far as I’m aware, there is no Police Investigation looking at my particular role.
As of last week, no representatives of the SMSM has been in touch with Craig Whyte to establish the authenticity of the material so far released, nor do they show any willingness to do so.
The Daily Record and The Scottish Sun are in a complete lock down mode. They will know the reasons as to why that is the case. The rest of the SMSM are stunningly quiet also.
It’s clear that the PR guys have kicked in big time. Jack Irvine, Hay and McKerron for example know where the bodies are buried and have no hesitation in leaking information that others would prefer to keep quiet , especially so should the other party have not yet been persuaded to share the same viewpoints.
The police, according to Duff and Phelps, didn’t seem to interested in the case. A steer was given that it was probably outside the jurisdiction of the Strathclyde force given that it was an English company matter.
On that same subject, only in the last month or so have the Insolvency service stepped in with questions for Craig on matters relating to Tixway and Rangers. It’s a very slow process and a convenient one for the SMSM to use as an excuse to avoid reporting on the news.
Some newspapers are indeed heavily conflicted – they will have no hiding place soon.
It’s time for the big hitters to get involved.
As a closing point for now. The myth that Craig Whyte paid Google to remove his history has much substance to it.
Jack Irvine and Craig are fully aware of the many letters sent out to multiple sources, at considerable expense from Carter Ruck from 2009 onwards.
All seemed to have the desired effect and old articles promptly pulled. Google can only report on what it sees as visible content. Apart from the odd fans forum/blog – the main area of attack was on the news aggregators. All appeared to comply and Google searches performed at a later date would not contain the items of significant interest.
The again, if a Political Journalist of the Year (2012) appears to give Jack Irvine the nod that his client is under review, what trust can we have in any of the media to simply report without favour?
https://twitter.com/CharlotteFakes/status/346626862459523072
Sam says:
June 17, 2013 at 4:48 pm
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The reference could be to the CB client account monies or to RFC cash or as you say another company altogether. GW was Company Secretary and CW could have been authorising RFC to pay Saffreys. I assume Saffreys engagement letter was signed by RFC as it was the entity receiving the tax advice.
They would of course have had another engagement for the financial due diligence work they did presumably with Wavetower. I sense CF is keen for Saffreys to shoulder some blame in this whole affair as up until now they have gotten off fairly lightly.
CF – can we see engagement letters and and audio or other docs featuring them please.
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Let me make it clear that as far as I’m aware, there is no Police Investigation looking at my particular role.
As of last week, no representatives of the SMSM has been in touch with Craig Whyte to establish the authenticity of the material so far released, nor do they show any willingness to do so.
The Daily Record and The Scottish Sun are in a complete lock down mode. They will know the reasons as to why that is the case. The rest of the SMSM are stunningly quiet also.
===========================================================================
Even if you are offshore I would have thought if there was any interest in the provenance of your material from a police point of view that, even if you didn’t get a knock on the door, that you would get some indications of their interest in you.
One of the things I find hard to understand is why BDO have have expressed no interest – have they actually rejected any material?
The SMSM I would agree are in lock-down and deciding to ride-out the storm because probably most of them have been complicit over the years with PR people that they wouldn’t want to see revealed so you are their worst nightmare. Are the BBC not interested in doing an in-depth piece?
But then we come to a difficult bit and that is have you been asking any tabloids for cash to do a story? I ask that because obviously the Beeb wouldn’t pay much if anything. I know you might not like the question but I think it’s an important one.
As to the SMSM contacting Craig for verification – there are two probs with that. Firstly they will be paranoid about being taped and then there is the credibility gap. How much weight would an assurance from Craig about authenticity carry in a court of law?
I don’t know if you’ve noticed rumours on RM that Media House contract hasn’t been renewed – do you think that might alter things or will the SMSM remain reticent?
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Some newspapers are indeed heavily conflicted – they will have no hiding place soon.
It’s time for the big hitters to get involved.
—————————-
And who might they be?
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
I was also wondering whether you are in contact with CW as you appear to know who is contacting him or not as the case may be.
Some argue that the primary reason for the material being leaked is that it might prejudice any future criminal or civil proceedings against CW or involving him. And on that theme I wonder what the Ticketus position is re CW and his personal guarantee is as the last lot of tapes seemed to have conflicting opinions about whether CW could be legally held to his guarantee.
There are many posters who, like you, are investing a lot of time and effort in trying to understand all this material from the fragments we have seen to date. And the questions I ask aren’t meant to annoy but I think are justifiable as we don’t know who you are or what your agenda is. I have no interest in your ID but I do worry about agenda although I have believe that, as far as I can tell, your material looks to be kosher.
Meanwhile, away from the third division for a moment, Hearts file papers to go into administration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22944291
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
The again, if a Political Journalist of the Year (2012) appears to give Jack Irvine the nod that his client is under review, what trust can we have in any of the media to simply report without favour?
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Reporting without favour would be desirable – stopping them grassing on their media colleagues to shady characters who want to stifle the free flow of information in a democracy would be good too. Is Leveson etc looking at the role of the Irvine’s of this world. If not, they should be.
Actonsheep says:
June 17, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Meanwhile, away from the third division for a moment, Hearts file papers to go into administration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22944291
———————————————————————————————————————-
Lets see what “help” they get from our illustrious custodians of the game. It shouldn’t be a problem, after all, conflicted Campbell is an ex employee.
Anyone want to bet it’ll be like chalk and cheese?
Hearts in admim !
1.paulmac2 says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:40 am
I believe the top positions at the SFA still hold an attractive enough salary and benefit package to entice a large number of candidates to apply should they become available. The sense of power and influence that the positions could bestow would also be appealing to many. I am a little unsure on the actual process for electing the president and also for filling the CEO role – are these positions available for anyone to apply to? I recall being slightly bemused when CO was appointed almost secretly a few years ago when his predecessor stood down, but his re-election is even more baffling given the current environment Scottish football finds itself surrounded by.
Your suggestion that it may be too late is interesting. From my own personal perspective I have recently (2 years ago) broken a long standing commitment to buying season tickets that had dated back to 1989. This was not taken lightly and it was a difficult decision to reach – particularly so as it was not based on financial requirement or work commitment etc. The events surrounding the liquidation of RFC have only served to embolden my view that the correct decision was reached. Now that habit is broken, the set of circumstances that would need to transpire to entice me back to supporting football, in a financial sense, is far more than those which were required to renew every year. The grotesque nature of the EPL has also fuelled a general apathy for the beautiful game, which for me has become less of a sport at the top levels. That is why whispers of the Celtic CEO’s discussing the current football climate in Scotland with MP’s were of interest.
The one big thing that sticks out for me in all the released docs re Mediahouse is how big a fan of RFC Irvine is. Ok, that’s not exactly stunning news but his relationship with SDM was long standing and close. Now if he knew that CW was a “bad un” surely the least he would have done would be to alert Minty. That he didn’t do this can only mean, for me any, that Minty was well aware of CW’s past. It certainly all points to him being hand picked for the job.
ecobhoy previously said on June 17, 2013 at 5:36 pm
===========================================================================
1. Even if you are offshore I would have thought if there was any interest in the provenance of your material from a police point of view that, even if you didn’t get a knock on the door, that you would get some indications of their interest in you.
2. One of the things I find hard to understand is why BDO have have expressed no interest – have they actually rejected any material?
3. The SMSM I would agree are in lock-down and deciding to ride-out the storm because probably most of them have been complicit over the years with PR people that they wouldn’t want to see revealed so you are their worst nightmare. Are the BBC not interested in doing an in-depth piece?
4. But then we come to a difficult bit and that is have you been asking any tabloids for cash to do a story? I ask that because obviously the Beeb wouldn’t pay much if anything. I know you might not like the question but I think it’s an important one.
5. As to the SMSM contacting Craig for verification – there are two probs with that. Firstly they will be paranoid about being taped and then there is the credibility gap. How much weight would an assurance from Craig about authenticity carry in a court of law?
6. don’t know if you’ve noticed rumours on RM that Media House contract hasn’t been renewed – do you think that might alter things or will the SMSM remain reticent?
——————————-
1. For the police to get involved, there would have to be a crime or suggestion of a crime. Perhaps Mr Whyte thought that at the time. I corrected him, gave an explanation as to what has actually happened.
Good old police advice stated that at best it was a civil matter and one where Mr Whyte, if concerns still remained – should take up with the relevant authorities where Liberty Capital was based – e.g. The Cayman Islands.
2. BDO will not accept any anonymity. They are comfortable that they can utilise existing powers to get the answers that they require. The trouble with that is a) they are looking in the wrong place and b) what’s the incentive to close an investigation very early?
I shall not be returning back to BDO. I have left my mark and in possession of their documented response. I may however drop a note when expenses are being determined.
3. The BBC have covered the Rangers saga and Craig Whyte pretty well so far In the sense that the work of Mark Daly was showcased to a large audience. I’m not sure if there’s an appetite for them to be seen to have yet another bite at this for now.
4. Not difficult at all. The answer is no.
5. Journalists shouldn’t have a fear of being taped, unless of course they are part of the game. It’s not a big deal for anyone to call/email Craig and ask if the audio/emails are genuine. They could follow that up with a supplementary and question if Mr Whyte now consents to the release/reporting on such information. It’s really that simple. The majority of MSM reporters in Scotland appear to be spoon fed and still in nappies and very subservient. It’s even easier to suppress if you can get to the editors, perhaps even intimidate or threaten to release details of indiscretions/affairs. That’s how Jack worked at times.
6. Some of the Scottish MSM are less than honest. I’d happily class some as thieves, liars and cowards. I’ve had very little dealings with them in the past, but my facts and experiences will stand up. I shall expose in due course.
With regards to media house allegedly departing the scene. Jim Traynor has stepped up to the mark, yet again he’s a no mark really. What should concern every genuine supporter of the clubs who have played out of Ibrox is the submission by others to take the company line. Look at the mess they have got themselves into and of course totally compromised.
This covers individuals as well as those who claim to be ‘independent’ groups. Those who have worked hand in hand with Rangers and their PR, prominent bloggers and alleged independent groups, have contributed to the sad state of affairs within Ibrox. History will again repeat itself should they not address their own failings.
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Let me make it clear that as far as I’m aware, there is no Police Investigation looking at my particular role.
As of last week, no representatives of the SMSM has been in touch with Craig Whyte to establish the authenticity of the material so far released, nor do they show any willingness to do so.
The Daily Record and The Scottish Sun are in a complete lock down mode. They will know the reasons as to why that is the case. The rest of the SMSM are stunningly quiet also.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I really don’t know what to make of this. I speculated earlier today regarding a media cover up. I was immediately scolded/ reassured by PhilMacG that I was wrong, wrong, wrong but I would soon be told why. Now I read this. Is any media connected person prepared to give me a teeny tiny clue as to why the SMSM aren’t all over this? No interdict, no police interest,so why the silence? AlexT has also posted a few mysterious comments indicating that nothing can be revealed- yet . What’s going on here?
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:07 pm
————————————
It’s been said so many times – before any reputable journalist will report something, he or she needs to know that the information (a) can been verified and (b) can be vouched to have come into the possession of the person holding it by legitimate means.
Whilst we all have our views on (a) in relation to CF, there has been no clarification in relation to (b) to the best of my knowledge.
Post Leveson, any journalist running with a story that may have been “ill-gotten” runs a very serious risk as does his paper/publisher. That is why no-one is touching this at the moment.
Read the stuff CF publishes and form your own views but don’t expect to read about it at all in any newspaper anytime soon. And for once it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just common sense.
54 (leaks) to 0 (avail)
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:16 pm
0 0 Rate This
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:07 pm
————————————
It’s been said so many times – before any reputable journalist will report something, he or she needs to know that the information (a) can been verified and (b) can be vouched to have come into the possession of the person holding it by legitimate means.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I mentioned the Wikileaks stuff in my earlier post. That could not be verified either as to authenticity or legality of acquisition, but the press/TV were all over it immediately. Can someone explain the difference here?
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:16 pm
——–
Have you read the Leveson report? In no way does it put barriers in the way of reporting whistleblowing of this kind. None at all. The Leveson report was about the direct behaviour of the press. Now as it seems quite clear Ms Fakes isn’t a journalist then pray tell how Leveson is relevant?
If the information can be verified as true, which it appears that no journalist has even tried to do, and the position of CF can also be verified – again which it appears no journalist has tried to do, and there is a genuine public interest then the information could be used.
Leveson is being used as a shield.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:23 pm
——-
You also have Ed Snowdon and the NSA leaks. Its clear he didn’t acquire this information legally, but it can and has been used.
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:16 pm
I’m not sure you are correct. Charlotte seems to be making issue that no-one is even asking questions. (a) and (b) can both be sorted out by simply asking for the information. If Charlotte is to be believed, the information has been freely offered, to no response.
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 6:55 pm
ecobhoy previously said on June 17, 2013 at 5:36 pm
======================================================================
Thankyou for that very full response to my questions and I don’t have any problems with anything you have said.
However, I have undernoted a post which I sent after my first one which you might have missed. A few important points there and I suppose it would help to know if your releases can actually be structured or whether it remains a dolly mixture selection in what you happen to come across in the ‘vault’. I know you are putting a lot of effort and obviously time into the ‘project’ and it’s appreciated but it does bring frustrations for posters who want to try and change Scottish Football for the better and who hope there is a ‘killer’ blow to be landed on those who have been corrupting and slowly destroying our game.
UNDERNOTED
I was also wondering whether you are in contact with CW as you appear to know who is contacting him or not as the case may be.
Some argue that the primary reason for the material being leaked is that it might prejudice any future criminal or civil proceedings against CW or involving him. And on that theme I wonder what the Ticketus position is re CW and his personal guarantee is as the last lot of tapes seemed to have conflicting opinions about whether CW could be legally held to his guarantee.
There are many posters who, like you, are investing a lot of time and effort in trying to understand all this material from the fragments we have seen to date. And the questions I ask aren’t meant to annoy but I think are justifiable as we don’t know who you are or what your agenda is. I have no interest in your ID but I do worry about agenda although I have believe that, as far as I can tell, your material looks to be kosher.
tomtom says:
June 17, 2013 at 6:54 pm
The one big thing that sticks out for me in all the released docs re Mediahouse is how big a fan of RFC Irvine is… Minty was well aware of CW’s past. It certainly all points to him being hand picked for the job
=============================
‘Absolutely’. 😉
That’s another angle to consider when remembering that Sky interview by (S)DM, where he claims with a straight face that ‘a big boy duped him, and ran away’.
Irvine’s business seems to be successful. I have no PR background, but would guess that one of his main areas of expertise is collecting ‘useable’ information from a wide range of contacts, over a prolonged period of time. If he didn’t know Whyte before, then he would have quickly found out all the juicy details of his checkered past from his contacts.
IMO, Irvine knew about Craigy’s past, so Minty knew.
Despite this – or more probably because of this – Craigy became ‘the chosen one’. 🙄
“On behalf of the Scottish FA, I wish all 12 clubs the very best of luck for the new season and beyond.”
So says Mr Regan, speaking of the clubs selected for the new Lowland league.
Let me wish them long spoons for supping with the wholly discredited SFA, and warn them to watch them like a hawk.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:23 pm
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:16 pm
0 0 Rate This
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:07 pm
————————————
It’s been said so many times – before any reputable journalist will report something, he or she needs to know that the information (a) can been verified and (b) can be vouched to have come into the possession of the person holding it by legitimate means.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I mentioned the Wikileaks stuff in my earlier post. That could not be verified either as to authenticity or legality of acquisition, but the press/TV were all over it immediately. Can someone explain the difference here?
===========================================================================
I have previously posted on here why it is incorrect to state: ‘ before any reputable journalist will report something, he or she needs to know that the information (a) can been verified and (b) can be vouched to have come into the possession of the person holding it by legitimate means’.
I even gave the example of a famous or perhaps more correctly infamous Scottish story to illustrate my point. Often journos never ever know who their source is. If we followed this advice Nixon would still be President because no one would have used the leak. Just think no one would have ever heard of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein – Right enough it would appear that no current Scottish journo has heard of them.
Stolen material from a source, even an unknown one, is no barrier to running a story from it as long as the journo is not involved in the actual crime. Although I accept that some journalists would commit criminal acts to secure material if they deemed the truth was worth the risk that they took. I will not make any moral judgement on many brave journalists – mainly living in brutal dictatorships – who have gone down this road and died or have been imprisoned as a result.
That is the price that principled journos still pay today in may lands.
I challenge any SMSM journalist to explain to me why they cannot take the info being revealed by CF and use it to actually develop the story without needing to use the documents. You have to remember that the biggest problem with the whole rangers story is – and I have said this from the word go – that it is being left to sports journos to handle. The reason for that is they lack the skillset to actually carry out the task that any reasonable reporter could manage standing on their head.
I have heard so many woeful excuses it’s actually pathetic from Leveson to art and part and none of them amount to a row of beans. The SMSM don’t want to touch this story with a bargepole for a variety of reasons to do with their own preservation and that of Rangers. I am even prepared to accept that some editors aren’t actually protecting Rangers but have been sold the PR ‘line’ that they are saving Scottish Football.
v
StevieBC says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:41 pm
tomtom says:
June 17, 2013 at 6:54 pm
The one big thing that sticks out for me in all the released docs re Mediahouse is how big a fan of RFC Irvine is… Minty was well aware of CW’s past. It certainly all points to him being hand picked for the job
=============================
‘Absolutely’. 😉
That’s another angle to consider when remembering that Sky interview by (S)DM, where he claims with a straight face that ‘a big boy duped him, and ran away’.
Irvine’s business seems to be successful. I have no PR background, but would guess that one of his main areas of expertise is collecting ‘useable’ information from a wide range of contacts, over a prolonged period of time. If he didn’t know Whyte before, then he would have quickly found out all the juicy details of his checkered past from his contacts.
IMO, Irvine knew about Craigy’s past, so Minty knew.
Despite this – or more probably because of this – Craigy became ‘the chosen one’. 🙄
======================================
Stevie, Minty probably introduced the MBB to Irvine,it would have been a smart move.
By the way,there is a lot of “is Charlotte ‘s information genuine” To my knowledge there has not been one person or organization that has contradicted anything that the Hurricane has released.
We are finding out all sorts of collusion and corruption thanks to her. I for one have no interest in her agenda,keep it coming.
john clarke says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:42 pm
“On behalf of the Scottish FA, I wish all 12 clubs the very best of luck for the new season and beyond.”
So says Mr Regan, speaking of the clubs selected for the new Lowland league.
Let me wish them long spoons for supping with the wholly discredited SFA, and warn them to watch them like a hawk.
=================================================================
Ditto to your sentiment. And I note Spartans have made the cut 🙂
Eco
True no need to quote.
How did this happen?
Simply ask, were you aware etc etc.
Its more than weird.
I also qualify my previous posts re Private EYE – all they did was acknowledge the CF material and quote none of it.
However I only nudged them the day prior to publication. Will see if they go for it in a weeks time.
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Post Leveson, any journalist running with a story that may have been “ill-gotten” runs a very serious risk as does his paper/publisher.
===============================================================
As nothing from Leveson has as yet, to the best of my knowledge, any statutory authority either in England or Scotland could you please explain why there is a post-Leveson ‘very serious risk’? The risk is exactly the same as pre-Leveson.
You have to remember that the journalists caught-up in Leveson were either illegally hacking phones themselves or instructing others to do so. That is why a number of them are currently facing criminal charges. There have also been a large number of settlements in the civil courts.
So pre or post Leveson, at the moment, things remain the same. What if anything will change has yet to be decided. It is also worth remembering that the actions of the journalists were loathsome in many cases without a scrap of a public interest defence and this was reflected in the civil damages paid and I expect will also be reflected in the sentences of many of those found guilty in the criminal courts.
Tic 6709 says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:01 pm
‘…We are finding out all sorts of collusion and corruption thanks to her. I for one have no interest in her agenda,keep it coming…’
——-
I wouldn’t say I have no interest in Charlotte’s agenda. The very opposite.
But , as you say, the stuff that she has released, pointing up evidence of nexus of unhealthy connections between the SFA and the different bands of lying carpet-baggers and ‘public’ officials and compromised news editors and really slimy toady creatures specialising in PR has let us all see that this blog has been justified in its suspicions and in many of its conclusions.
Whether we can nail the bastards for one crime or another is a moot point.
But we know we have right on our side.
And Charlotte may yet bring the temple down.
Speed the day.
john clarke says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Tic 6709 says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:01 pm
‘…We are finding out all sorts of collusion and corruption thanks to her. I for one have no interest in her agenda,keep it coming…’
——-
I wouldn’t say I have no interest in Charlotte’s agenda. The very opposite.
============================
Apart from the agenda JC, I agree wholeheartedly.
ianagain says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:09 pm
True no need to quote.
How did this happen?
Simply ask, were you aware etc etc.
Its more than weird.
I also qualify my previous posts re Private EYE – all they did was acknowledge the CF material and quote none of it. However I only nudged them the day prior to publication. Will see if they go for it in a weeks time.
======================================================
I think they are out again next Monday – they tend to work on stories and get them in early and don’t tend to drop things in at the last moment. The other prob with the story is it might be of interest in Scotland but raises little interest down south. But I would reckon ‘The Eye’ might be getting interested with the Oakeshott stuff and also the Donohoe material. They have a very defined ‘audience’ and if they think it fits then they will use it no problem.
The Charlotte story has two strands:
(1) the fact that copious amounts of previously confidential material which is contradicting the ‘truth’ as previously told in the media about events before, during and after the takeover of Rangers and the subsequent asset sale to Sevco 5088.
(2). The material appears to suggest that there has been a number of deceptive acts carried out by various parties involved.
There is absolutely nothing to prevent the MSM from reporting either of these two factual strands, just as there was nothing to prevent the media from reporting on the MP’s expenses. The Charlotte information concerns at least £5m of public money, possibly more. It could be much more.
The only reason why journalists are not reporting the story is because they are heavily implicated in the story itself.
Qui custodiet ipsos custodes – Who watches the watchmen?
In Scotland it’s RTC, TSFM & Charlotte + the bampots.
The new Lowland league, so quickly established by a slow thinking SFA, leads me to ponder whether this is the result of a deal between the SFL, SFA, and probably the SPL last year. We all wondered why clubs that could have made a fuss over losing out of a SFL place when T’Rangers got in kept very quiet. Is this the pay off? “Let us put T’Rangers in and next year there will be more non league clubs offered places in a new league.”
The conflicted officials and complicit clubs have likely played a long secret game, preserving the establishment club and belatedly rewarding those who complied with the plans.
Couldn’t they just have told us?
I`ve had my wee ups and downs with neepheid on LH 😉 – however the sentiment, perceptions values and content not to mention every single word comma full stop and all in neepheids posts I agree with wholeheartedly. If philmacg thinks neepheid is `very very wrong` based on philg`s say-so or inside track not being divulged for [jolly good – but better not tell us – reasons] he should at least give some background or generic explanation for those reasons – or is no better than the selective MSM.
aka – haud yer whist – philmac knows best
Blimey
Captain Haddock @ 8:23
A cynic might voice the opinion that a Lowland League would make a handy ledge for a falling/new created The The Rangers to land/be placed on.
In fact, a cynic just has.
John Clarke
Spot on. I knew in my water the rules on the granting of a UEFA licence in 2011 had been swerved and the motive was not hard to discern.
Now as a result of CF leaks we have a clearer picture of how this was done and what the vital missing piece of evidence is and who has it.
Somebody in that process told porkies and no one sought to verify in spite of being required to do so.
I can appreciate why it was done and might even be able live with those reasons but what I really object to is being treated as a mug and told to accept, as Mr Regan has publically stated, that the due process was properly adhered to. It was’nt and his December attempt to make it appear so, killed by Rangers, only reinforces that the SFA knew it was’nt.
does anyone really think that the sfa would’ve actually withheld a euro license from rangers ?
from a rangers in financial trouble ?
they’d have tippexed the forms themselves if they had to.
john clarke says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:15 pm
John, I looooove you!!
A euro license? Howasbout domestic SPL /SFA license financial creds for 2010/11 or rather from 2005 [or before] GT got some DSO clarifications to do [beyond a behind covering letter from 15 Feb] CF: 10 June http://www.scribd.com/doc/146968036/Grant-Thornton-Letter-15-Feb-2012 …
Well – `fookin` Uefa can be bought off with a pint? – Perhaps SPL/SFA took a `PR` viewpoint?
DSO should have been honestly sportingly addressed in 2005 – and sorted – PR aggrandisements played otherwise
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:00 pm
9 3 Rate This
————————————————————————–
If we followed this advice Nixon would still be President because no one would have used the leak. Just think no one would have ever heard of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
——————————————————–
No Ecobhoy, that is not correct and the example you have chosen proves my point precisely, despite the naysayers on here. Woodward and Bernstein had the Watergate story for a long time but needed corroboration before they could print it. Deep Throat provided the route to corroboration – without him, there would have been no story to print.
Without being pedantic, though, it wasn’t Woodward & Bernstein that blew Watergate open, but rather a letter from James McCord to Judge Sirica in March 1973 that finally ignited the scandal and did more in 9 weeks to undermine Nixon than Woodward and Bernstein had achieved in 9 months..
Unfortunately your comment that “Nixon would still be President” carries about as much weight as the comment from the ASA last week that Rangers “are still the most successful club in world football.”
finbaraidenmuldoon says:
June 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm
——————————
This is not a Celtic blog!
you are waffling, the red is from the royal standard flag and is on the badge. . I have no time for Celtic and Rangers fans excuses for not supporting the national team, you are either Scottish or you are not.
Are any of the posters on here Journalists? Just a thought. If there are none who actually post, is there any knowledge that they are readers?
Please don’t feed the troll.
finbaraidenmuldoon says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:01 pm
0 2 Rate This
Troyblain,
I was born in Stirling.
All four of my grandparents were Irish.
I’m a right Tim.
+++++++++
But on the wrong blog.
finbaraidenmuldoon says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:01 pm
I was born in Stirling.
All four of my grandparents were Irish.
I’m a right Tim.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I was born in Clydebank
All four of my Grandparents were also Irish
I am Scottish
Is this what an AA meeting feels like?
test
I’m a bit puzzled how the 12 Lowland League originals have been chosen, and wonder who the 5 ‘rejectees’ are.
Two of the sides chosen are mid table second leaguers in division 2 of the East Of Scotland league. The only club chosen from the west of Scotland haven’t as far as I know, ever played a senior match.
University of Stirling: already, they are having to ground share with Albion.
Half the sides are from towns with populations of 5000 or less, including the ex Rosewell Miners’ Welfare club from a wee place of 1,400. Some of the chosen dozen have no lights or seating, or even cover.
And the Juniors have apparently given the plan a body swerve for the time being.
So, in a nutshell, it looks a rushed, badly cobbled together mess.
On the day Hearts announce their intention to enter Administration there seems to be no one within the Scottish media asking questions of the current, newly re-appointed, SFA President.
Remember this man was on the RFC board for many years and oversaw a dubious tax regime. Indeed he benefitted from it himself. This scheme ultimately made the club unsellable as the bill, currently under appeal by HMRC, ensured no one would touch it. Well no one except CW, the billionaire, who rode in on his white charger to rescue the club. Well that worked out well as we all now know.
Anyway back to dear old Campbell. After ensuring the long term fuse had been lit down Govan way the ‘GREAT ADMINISTRATOR’ headed east to the Hearts board where he exercised his enormous talents to the benefit of Scottish Football. Well that also worked out very well.
What a boon to our sport this man is!
He has been involved with two clubs; One he was at for many years and has been liquidated. The other now seems destined to endure the same fate.
Is this really the best we can get as President of the SFA?
A man who has served on the boards of two clubs destined to be financial car crashes.
Meanwhile we, the fans, are told that he had very little power at either club when we voice our concerns and yet in the next breath the media describe him as the ‘GREAT ADMINISTRATOR’
For any journalist looking in what exactly is it he is; an incompetent, useless administrator who only had the short term view for these two clubs to allow him to jump prior to each financial implosion or a ‘YES’ man with no moral or business acumen totally lacking in financial foresight.
Either way this individual is clearly unfit for the position that he holds.
What is the word that was oft quoted in the final years of RFC?
If he had a shred of ‘DIGNITY’ he would go. In fact I would go further and say he should be given a life time ban from involvement in Scottish football.
As the clouds start to clear we see the picture fully emerging .The scale of deception and manipulation that has gone on is absolutely staggering…..It is frankly hard to keep a track of all the mega and minor misdemeanours .
One fundamental question no one has asked recently !
When did it all start?
The perceived wisdom is that the EBTs/ dual contracts all kicked off in early 2000s in response to a certain well funded Ulsterman appearing on the Scottish scene…and threatening the planned permanent hegemony …but is that really when it started?
By his own admission CO claimed his involvement in contracts and registrations ceased in 1995…Had he got to the point at that time that his reputation and position as a credible administrator was untenable given the way that contracts were being managed ?
From 1990 or so there was an axis of Bryson, Farry , Murray and Ogilvie all in play…managing back and forth between them all the registrations of all the mega million pound deals paid to Britain and Europes finest.
Given all we know now ( and any behaviour expert will tell you abusers start to abuse when they have the power to do so… And these guys did big time ! ).. Are we seriously saying things were squeaky clean to that point…OR…Was the formal EBT scheme simply an attempt to legitimise what had been going on for years?
Given the dual contract evidence before him any self respecting SFA Chair or CEO would have demanded the ‘drains be lifted’ all the way back to the late 80s.on this one…..now I guess we know …they may already have known the answers…Hugh Adams i would surmise certainly did!!!!
Some have long suspected …and as we see and hear daily… now we actually KNOW …..EVERYTHING that was and is being done is to protect not just the entity and it’s very being but also certain very prized possessions from the 90s…..
AGain….When did it all start?
CTs stuff prob focusing about the backstage grabbing opportunist’s and others [varied exploitative] causative problems duping / milking the support. Supporters I know aware acutely aware of situ. Views – include – `spokespeople` in on the lark – or variables – or not – doesn’t matter – present incumbents not trusted. Constant references are the types we know that do nobody and themselves any good or their club. Noted two months ago their financial city lads stated [x2] the `blue forums stupid` [their financial guys]. Also noted that a more than a few [maj] fed up with the nonsense – but frankly scared to positive voice for their club. Why scared? – is the problem. Sorted can be sorted. Rapid nee emergency focus required. Can their real true support save the day! – next days to step up
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 9:32 pm
———
Ah, but now you’ve changed the terms. I don’t think anyone denies the information needs to be corroborated. But that is completely different to ignoring it entirely, or ignoring it because its tainted. The press aren’t even looking at it. A large part of it would very easily corroborated or disproved if the right people were asking the right questions.
To use your example, Charlotte Fakes is our Deep Throat, who is providing corroborating evidence for what many people have long suspected – yet she’s being ignored.
The simple point stands, there is nothing standing in the way of the press using what she’s publishing if it can be shown to be true. Nothing at all.
asking how CO can be in charge of fitba is like asking how Hugh Dallas came to be in charge of refs.
I’m getting the impression that this site is being infiltrated by posters with usernames that suggest they are of a Celtic persuasion. I do not believe these people are genuine celtic fans. They are then posting comments that are not in line with this site. To me this is an attack to undermine the credibility of this blog.
Scottish football has been severely damaged by the way that the MSM defines everything in terms of Rangers and Celtic. Any commentary of any game in this country will always include a reference to a player who previously played with or was, however tenuously, linked with either team. A similar phenomenon can be seen in English commentaries of CL games not involving English based teams, players are assessed on previous or potential participation in the EPL.
Scottish journalists have grown lazy and lethargic. They have been spoon-fed stories for so long now that they couldn’t find their own stories if they wanted to. Blogs like TSFM are a place where stories can be analysed from all sides and people can make up their own minds.
Lazy journalism is not a new thing, but CF’s exposure of other Media House manipulations is still shocking. The supine behaviour of the SFA in relation to registration is without parallel. The disregard of basic business ethics is incredible.
How many people on here believe that, if it weren’t for RTC et all, we would know precisely nothing about the above?
inbaraidenmuldoon says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:01 pm
10
31
Rate This
Troyblain,
I was born in Stirling.
All four of my grandparents were Irish.
I’m a right Tim.
_________________________
Don’t you mean Oirish begorrah?
Visions of James Traynor + false moustache + glasses, with an inflatable pig under his arm spring to mind.
_________________________
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:00 pm
“….. Often journos never ever know who their source is. If we followed this advice Nixon would still be President because no one would have used the leak. Just think no one would have ever heard of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein – Right enough it would appear that no current Scottish journo has heard of them…..”
——————————————–
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 9:32 pm
_____________________________________________________________________
Also, If I remember correctly, Deep Throats real identity was known to Bob Woodward, and was impeccable. If he had lied to Woodward, Woodward would have outed him. As he was providing Data which was sensitive, and wished to avoid prosecution or persecution himself, he refused to be a named source for the material, thence why Woodward and Bernstein were forced to get secondary confirmatory sources before being able to run any article based on the information…. Thence why Deep throat was so useful. Because to them his information, name and word was an unimpeachable source.
Look at wikileaks. Wikileaks worked because Julian Assange was willing to be the public face of the information he was releasing, and has taken his licks because of it. He was willing to be the human shield for the information. But I would be surprised if he did not meticulously check the credentials of his sources before publishing anything. He was willing to run the gauntlet of prosecution on others behalves. Also the international and sensationalist aspect of the wikileaks mission gave Assange a high public profile with which to protect himself.
In both situations the leaker was willing to make themselves known to a trusted front for the information.
Mark Felt leaked to The Washington Posts Woodward and Bernstein. Bradley Manning to WikiLeaks Assange.
Which brings us to CF. CF claims to have been in contact with several reporters and newsies (including the hosts of this here site) offering the information in her possession. I wonder under what circumstances this information was offered?
Was it offered anonymously from behind an internet cloak of identity secrecy? If so, the primary bond of trust between the shield and leaker is never established. The contingent Mutual Assured Destruction if the information turns out to be false cannot be enacted from the point of view of the publisher.
I wonder what conditions were attached to the provision of said information. If it was lifted for example from a hard drive, was CF willing to provide the physical drive for forensic examination by the journo? If lifted from an internet hack, was she willing to provide the methodology and access to her own hardware again for forensic examination to attempt to prove its veracity?
Was CF only to release parts of the information acquired, showing that she had an agenda with keeping certain parts out of the public spotlight? This could in turn lead to an element of mistrust between the parties as one party has to question whether they are deliberately only being fed one side of the story, and maybe not even all of that either.
CF is NOT the traditional whistle blower. A whistle blower normally arrives with a raft of information, but provides the information in its entirety with no interpretative agenda attached.
These are the reasons why I believe that the the mainstream press won’t touch it. The relationship between a source and a journo is symbiotic. Why should a journo or a newspaper risk legal and financial consequences and their credibility unless the source is also willing to share the risk?
People may criticise the MSM as much as they want, but ALL of the public faces of this debate are avoiding the CF stuff like the plague, including the internet bampots. Paul MacConville hasn’t posted in a week. Phil MacGiolla Bhain Hasn’t really touched it. Henry Clarson, James Forrest likewise (I cite these as examples as these are the blogs I read)
TSFM’s originators are reasonably well hidden, like the RTC blog, and they won’t even post an article based on the information leaked, and has advised us all, repeatedly to the take the CF stuff with a grain of salt……..
….. Now, that analysis aside. I enjoy the CF materials. But I am highly suspicious of the way in which it is being presented. I feel that certain *Facts* are being edited out as not being congruent with the agenda of the publisher….. Some emails are oddly edited, Leaving me to feel that certain qualifying paragraphs or emails are NOT being published…..
Charlotte On PR ….
Truth will prevail, sadly some knuckleheads down RFIC way seem intent on ensuring a cover up at all costs.
——–
It’s clear that the PR guys have kicked in big time. Jack Irvine, Hay and McKerron for example know where the bodies are buried and have no hesitation in leaking information that others would prefer to keep quiet , especially so should the other party have not yet been persuaded to share the same viewpoints.
—————
The majority of MSM reporters in Scotland appear to be spoon fed and still in nappies and very subservient. It’s even easier to suppress if you can get to the editors, perhaps even intimidate or threaten to release details of indiscretions/affairs. That’s how Jack worked at times.
————–
With regards to media house allegedly departing the scene. Jim Traynor has stepped up to the mark, yet again he’s a no mark really.
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This covers individuals as well as those who claim to be ‘independent’ groups. Those who have worked hand in hand with Rangers and their PR, prominent bloggers and alleged independent groups, have contributed to the sad state of affairs within Ibrox. History will again repeat itself should they not address their own failings.
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newtz …… It does appear that there are different factions at work ….
possibly …
CW faction ….. ?
Blue Room old brigade faction …. JI / Leggo / BMcM / RM / VB / FF / CRO …
Ticketus/Octopus faction ….. ?
D&P faction …. ?
SMSM faction …. DR / SS
MSM faction … Ch4 / BBC
Bampot faction … TSFM / PMcC / PmG / Scotzine ….
Anti Corruption faction ….. Corsica1968 / Charlotte Fakes / RTC
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Charlotte On CW …
For the police to get involved, there would have to be a crime or suggestion of a crime. Perhaps Mr Whyte thought that … at the time. … I corrected him, … gave an explanation as to what has actually happened.
It’s not a big deal for anyone to call/email Craig and ask if the audio/emails are genuine. They could follow that up with a supplementary and question if Mr Whyte … now … consents to the release/reporting on such information. It’s really that simple
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Good old police advice stated that at best it was a civil matter and one where Mr Whyte, if concerns still remained – should take up with the relevant authorities where Liberty Capital was based – e.g. The Cayman Islands …….
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newtz ….
right at the beginning I jested possible ICIJ links …… The databases have been dispersed between journalists and are being compiled into the (now) on-line ICIJ Offshore Leaks Database. This an on going process that will take many months if not years to fully complete as many of the databases need de-compiling …. eg Sage databases etc etc.
Intrigueing the explaimation Charlotte recited above …… Makes one wonder if the Charlotte leaks are originating from one of the ICIJ source’s …. just a thought
http://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search
Nice to see Charlotte popping in to say hello. She certainly put the Uefa licence scandal on its podium which will have done Auldheid watter a power of good.
What of the good old Scottish MSM. They must be incandescent with apathy. The biggest sporting story in decades and they can’t touch it. Oh woe is thee. We get to run it all to ourselves. A scoop. A mega scoop. An exclusive, earth shattering, eyeboggling, delicious mega scoop all to ourselves. Oh deary deary. How did it ever come to this.
As if that wasn’t bad enough for the MSM, Charlotte is suggesting she’s going to wheel out the big hitters. There just isn’t enough popcorn to go around.
My earlier video offering was not to everyones taste but this is shorter and sweeter. I’ve been itching to employ this for months and now seems the right time. A bit of Shakespeare to send ye contented to bed.
http://youtu.be/P9fa3HFR02E
ecobhoy said much earlier on June 17, 2013 at 7:41 pm
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Thank you for that very full response to my questions and I don’t have any problems with anything you have said.
However, I have undernoted a post which I sent after my first one which you might have missed. A few important points there and I suppose it would help to know if your releases can actually be structured or whether it remains a dolly mixture selection in what you happen to come across in the ‘vault’. I know you are putting a lot of effort and obviously time into the ‘project’ and it’s appreciated but it does bring frustrations for posters who want to try and change Scottish Football for the better and who hope there is a ‘killer’ blow to be landed on those who have been corrupting and slowly destroying our game.
UNDERNOTED
I was also wondering whether you are in contact with CW as you appear to know who is contacting him or not as the case may be.
Some argue that the primary reason for the material being leaked is that it might prejudice any future criminal or civil proceedings against CW or involving him. And on that theme I wonder what the Ticketus position is re CW and his personal guarantee is as the last lot of tapes seemed to have conflicting opinions about whether CW could be legally held to his guarantee.
There are many posters who, like you, are investing a lot of time and effort in trying to understand all this material from the fragments we have seen to date. And the questions I ask aren’t meant to annoy but I think are justifiable as we don’t know who you are or what your agenda is. I have no interest in your ID but I do worry about agenda although I have believe that, as far as I can tell, your material looks to be kosher.
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I am in contact with Craig Whyte, purely on the basis that I also have questions of my own that I’d like an answer to. Nothing more sinister than that. If you have a question and don’t know the answer (or require further info) – then all you do is get in touch with your target. Craig is still very visible and for journalists, an easy contact. He’s probably considered very toxic right now, I’m sure there are plenty reasons for many to avoid and ‘stick together’. Easy if they take the same approach/line – allegedly not an unknown practice for the msm.
I will do nothing, absolutely nothing, that is solely geared towards the truth being outed. As for opinions on information being admissible in court, most, if not all statements are lacking in supporting evidence to back such claims. Such a statement regarding the possible dismissal of evidence wouldn’t be out of place if it were to be directly attributable to member of the smsm.
I have avoided, by design, adding a narrative to my posts. Perhaps I started out with a few questions of my own, but really all I’ve tried to do is give out information that may have been requested in the past, both here and elsewhere.
As for frustrations that many have, it’s something that will just have to be accepted for now. I can perhaps pick up on the odd point or two and do a short exercise in reviewing data particular to that request, such as the UEFA issue. I’ll continue to monitor and contribute where I can. The narrative, supporting arguments for and against such issues, I shall leave to others.
Ticketus already have a judgement in their favour agains Craig Whyte, although under appeal I believe.
As Ticketus actively engaged in an operation to prevent MIH from finding out the true source of funding, I would award them nothing in damages. They knew that if this information came to light, there would be no deal as MIH would walk away. Ticketus engaged in a transaction based upon deceit, so it seems strange that their victory seemed to be based upon similar tactics of not disclosing the full truth.
ForresDee says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:48 pm
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Some newspapers are indeed heavily conflicted – they will have no hiding place soon.
It’s time for the big hitters to get involved.
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And who might they be?
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Maybe I should ask – and what might they be?
newtz says:
June 18, 2013 at 12:16 am
“Makes one wonder if the Charlotte leaks are originating from one of the ICIJ source’s …. just a thought
http://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search”
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Interesting newtz. There are many potential sources for the material. I note jerfeelgood’s healthy scepticism which will keep our feet on the ground.
I did a search on the ICIJ site for Liberty Capital in the Cayman Islands. It came up blank.
I mailed them a link to this blog and tipped them off on Charlottes twitter feed. They’ve likely got far more weightier matters to occupy them but worth a punt I thought.
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 18, 2013 at 12:30 am
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As Ticketus actively engaged in an operation to prevent MIH from finding out the true source of funding, I would award them nothing in damages. They knew that if this information came to light, there would be no deal as MIH would walk away. Ticketus engaged in a transaction based upon deceit, so it seems strange that their victory seemed to be based upon similar tactics of not disclosing the full truth.
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(a) “I have avoided, by design, adding a narrative to my posts.”
(b) “there would be no deal as MIH would walk away”
Firstly I would respectfully point out that statement (b) comes across a little like a narrative to me… but I have no problem with you or anyone else expressing your honest opinion on this.
What I would is, Is this really a given?
This sounds rather to close to the SDM ‘I was duped’ line to be accepted without some corroboration. You are entitled to your opinion same as anyone Charlotte, but I struggle to see how you get to it that SDM was genuinely duped by CW.
Call me a cynic, but I can see how it might be in SDMs interest to create the impression of being duped. I can even see how it could be in his interest to ensure that the illusion of dupery was supported with documentary evidence!
But what would SDM have done if he had known about CW and the ticketus arrangements? Made sure he never found out about it.. that’s what!
What else was he gonna do? Put RFC into administration himself or tap Peter Lawell for a sub? (Both scenarios seem about as likely to me!)
After the failure of the flotation, offloading to a fall guy was his only realistic option, surely?And If the fall guy was a spiv, this could only be a problem for SDM if he couldn’t avoid finding out about it! Plausible deniability I think they call it! Get your lackeys to fill the Daily record with made up ‘off the radar’ wealth stories, then read them back to yourself so you can be taken in by them. Job done!
That’s my ‘most likely estimate’ opinion at present. I believe it fits with the known knowns. I am entirely willing to be disavowed of it if there is compelling evidence to the contrary, and remain open to other possibilities. But I haven’t seen any as yet.
resin_lab_dogH says:
June 18, 2013 at 1:05 am
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MIH couldn’t walk away – Lloyds were in charge and they wanted out and their money back.
“I will do nothing, absolutely nothing, that is solely geared towards the truth being outed”
test
jerfeelgood says:
June 18, 2013 at 12:11 am
‘Why should a journo or a newspaper risk legal and financial consequences and their credibility unless the source is also willing to share the risk?..’
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Rubbish!.
No one expects newspapers to go out on any kind of shaky, speculative, legal limb.
It is a FACT, immediately ascertainable by anyone with a pc ,
that many people are saying many things ( which may or may not be true) about how the death of a football club was encompassed in order for spivs to make money while escaping from huge debt burdens.
it is a FACT that many people are asserting that the football authorities, in full knowledge of that, did not apply the sanctions on the club that ought properly to have been applied, and further, allowed an illicit new club to be granted special privileges away and beyond what their own rules permitted
it is a FACT that many people are asserting that some. many, or damn near all of the newspapers in Scotland are complicit in protecting and sheltering a rogue club, several parcels of rogue businessmen,and various ‘public’ officials, from the consequences of their conspiratorial acts.
The reporting of what other people are actually saying is NOT an endorsement of what is being said!.
It does not mean that the actual assertions being made are regarded by the newspaper as being true!
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 18, 2013 at 12:30 am
Ticketus already have a judgement in their favour agains Craig Whyte, although under appeal I believe.
As Ticketus actively engaged in an operation to prevent MIH from finding out the true source of funding, I would award them nothing in damages. They knew that if this information came to light, there would be no deal as MIH would walk away. Ticketus engaged in a transaction based upon deceit, so it seems strange that their victory seemed to be based upon similar tactics of not disclosing the full truth.
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That analysis (which of course you are not providing) is a bit odd. Whyte borrowed money from Ticketus and gave personal guarantees. They lost their money (as it appears they always would do from Day 1) and Ticketus, not unreasonably, called in the guarantees. Why are you concerned that they allegedly misled MIH? Personally I don’t think they did. SDM knew the source of Whytes finance as did Lloyds and they didn’t care – RFC had to go from the Group before it went down.
Humble Pie quoted me ealier around June 18, 2013 at 1:12 am
“I will do nothing, absolutely nothing, that is solely geared towards the truth being outed”
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What an idiot of a statement. I omitted the most critical word from that sentence. It should have read:
“I will do nothing, absolutely nothing, that is solely geared towards PREVENTING the truth being outed”
Apologies.
Just supposing the deluded are correct, and this has all been orchestrated by those assisted by their eating habits of a Friday ,striving for equality, armed with silence and modern opinions on human correctness.
I would want those responsible for decades of wrongdoing to be on duty when they have to answer for their actions.
Now is the time to address this, not later when the guilty have all retreated to arms length, with pension.
I don’t care if its by CFC or on CBBC but get the cleansing commenced.
When’s the UTTT anyhow? Sure something was happening this month with that.
slimshady61 says:
June 17, 2013 at 9:32 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:00 pm
9 3 Rate This
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If we followed this advice Nixon would still be President because no one would have used the leak. Just think no one would have ever heard of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
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No Ecobhoy, that is not correct and the example you have chosen proves my point precisely, despite the naysayers on here. Woodward and Bernstein had the Watergate story for a long time but needed corroboration before they could print it. Deep Throat provided the route to corroboration – without him, there would have been no story to print.
Without being pedantic, though, it wasn’t Woodward & Bernstein that blew Watergate open, but rather a letter from James McCord to Judge Sirica in March 1973 that finally ignited the scandal and did more in 9 weeks to undermine Nixon than Woodward and Bernstein had achieved in 9 months.
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You have taken 4 lines from my 23 line post but appear to have misunderstood what was stated in them which was: ‘I even gave the example of a famous or perhaps more correctly infamous Scottish story to illustrate my point. Often journos never ever know who their source is. If we followed this advice Nixon would still be President because no one would have used the leak. Just think no one would have ever heard of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein – Right enough it would appear that no current Scottish journo has heard of them’.
‘Watergate’ wasn’t my example which I clearly stated was actually a Scottish story and which I have explained elsewhere and involved stolen police documents and an unknown source. I did couple that to a more or less throwaway remark about Woodward and Bernstein which you have chosen to concentrate on so I will turn to that issue.
Let me try and explain what actually happened. A Washington Post front page story ran on 18 June 1972 the day after the Watergate break-in and for months Woodward and Bernstein virtually alone in the American Press worked at revealing the scandal to the American public. Looking back I have no doubt that the steady drip of revelations was very damaging to Nixon but not really obvious at the time.
The duo exposed the links between the ‘burglars’ and Nixon’s re-election committee and eventually in October 1972 tied the committee to the real story that the burglary was part of the plan to discredit the Democrats being organised by close Nixon aides. While the two reporters soldiered on alone the rest of the American Press was deflected with smoke and mirrors in the run-in to Nixon’s successful re-election in November 1972.
But the really interesting thing for me about the story is that the FBI investigation was a brilliant piece of work and, as one would expect in most police investigations, was well ahead of the reporting by the Washington Post. For me the key part of the role played by Woodward and Bernstein was actually leaking the investigation details to the American Public.
Over the last 18-24 months I have looked at the craven way in which the Authorities and media in Scotland have buried the various scandals which are associated with Establishment corruption and look at Watergate and think – the FBI were prepared to take on their President to get to the truth and in Scotland we can’t expose a few corrupt conmen.
However there is also a lot of evidence that the ‘Old Guard’ FBI investigation was purely to unseat the new FBI Boss by proving to Nixon that he couldn’t control his agents and that it had nothing to do with unseating Nixon or exposing the plot against the Democrats but just to force Nixon into firing the FBI Director.
Your contention therefore that without Deep Throat there would have been no story would be strongly resisted by many in America as there are other versions of the Deep Throat role and I still believe that he/she was a composite ‘cover-name’ for a variety of sources. And, in a curious echo of CF, even to this day the Deep Throat motivation isn’t totally clear. I have no wish to go too far on this but if you are interested you should look at the way in which Segretti was introduced to the reporters – probably by Felt who may or may not have been Deep Throat – with the possible intention of deflecting them from the actual story.
No matter what IMO the journalists played an important role because as long as they were writing their stories Nixon and his top aides remained jumpy and eventually the paranoia wore them down.
Pressure also came from Senator George McGovern who openly pointed the finger to the White House being responsible for the break-in but here in Scotland the only politicians involved in our local ‘difficulty’ appear to want things to be kept quiet to protect their club in secret.
After Nixon’s re-election the pressure from the Washington Post exclusives eventually forced other American media outlets into running the story and the genie was well and truly out of the bottle as Nixon and his aides started to buckle under the pressure and the PR deflector shields began to split wide-open.
Some Woodward and Bernstein detractors were miffed that they were the ones who ended up with seemingly all the ‘glory’ when many other Government officials and investigators conducted an investigation which was a text-book example of good detective work.
By March 1973 when the original burglars were convicted Judge Sirica warned them they were going to go down for very lengthy sentences of 30-40 years and you are quite correct in stating that McCord, a lowly conspirator, placed virtually the final domino because he decided he wasn’t taking the rap for all the senior aides and he wrote his letter telling the judge of the perjury that had taken place during the trial.
If he hadn’t confessed and tried to cut a deal then many would argue that Nixon would still have fallen because the rumours, as often happens, were possibly becoming more bizarre than the truth and investigations would have continued and senior aides had also been identified before the March trial and their part in the cover-up was known to the investigators and they were next in line for prosecution.
But the main thing you have to remember is this was a long-running and extremely complex saga with few straightforward answers and many people playing different parts which eventually brought down the US President. It is too easy to dismiss McCord or the reporters or argue about who played a bigger role – they all had a part to play.
However if you would like to deal with the serious Scottish points in the other 19 lines of my post where I state that the CF material can be used by the SMSM if they choose to do so then feel free to air your thoughts and let’s see if we can reach an understanding on what the Scottish media are able to do or choosing not to.