Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
Lisbon67 says:
June 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm
One suspects they will take the position that Rangers lied to them (the old club of course not the new one … with the same history).
CharlotteFakes may have documents indicating the contrary of course.
In other thoughts. Rangers also must have provided the SFA with a business plan which included European football, because when they lost it they had to steal another £9m from the Government just to keep going to the end of the season. That’s on top of the outstanding amount which they hadn’t paid but still got their licence.
Castofthousands says:
June 16, 2013 at 9:13 pm
‘……This states that the HMRC monies were no longer liable for appeal but were due payment….’
—-
Yes, CoT, DOS 04 is really important from the perspective of those who believe that the SFA was at the very least, utterly negligent in checking out the club’s claim .
Did they ask the club to produce anything they had from HMRC to prove that those monies were not definitively due because the question of liability for payment had not been settled?
I suspect that they snatched at the first straw that was presented to them.
Lisbon67 says:
June 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm
‘….and I call on this forum to stop being a talking shop and to come up with a credible plan to stop this corruption that is destroying our game.’
——–
The problem, Lisbon67, is that , however many we are, our voice is anonymous, as I have previously said ( not all that long ago).
I don’t know how we can get round that problem other than by at least some of us giving up our anonymity and arranging to meet to form an actual, physical, visible democratic, society able to use a proper address and phone number and so on.
Such a society of course would have to be, and be seen to be, strictly ‘non-partisan’.
That is, to be merely (!) a monitor of how the the Footballing authorities deal with any and all leagues and clubs, and of how our media relate to our game.
Particularly the BBC ( which is not at all permitted to be partisan) and the print press ( which can be as partisan as they dare but should not propagate falsehoods and distortions of the truth) .
where has everyone gone??
paulsatim says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:08 am
‘where has everyone gone??’
—–
Was it something I said? 🙂
Dont recall seeing blog this quiet at this time of night. Over an hour without a post!
Castofthousands.
Sooner or later the dam will burst. This little lot just added to the pressure.
What authorities should I approach? I tried SFA. tried UEFA, tried FIFA on the registration issue.
When the football police turn a blind eye, whom do I write to?
When the CF leaks become legit in terms of being free to report on, quite a lot will be swept away but we need take care the game is not drowned in the process.
paulsatim says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:08 am
“where has everyone gone??”
——————
This happened a few nights ago when it all went quiet. I had some problems with logging in around then. It all started when I tried the new password system. I lost internet connection altogether for while. Could have been disastrous as I was expecting some important e:mail correspondence.
Always the one for wild speculation, at the time I suspected that TSFM had fell victim to a ‘trojan horse’ internet infection. I suspected that the logon somehow infected contributors computers when they tried to post. When I did get my internet back up I could read the blog but was reluctant to post unless I got infected again through the logon system. I flushed my system through with a full one hour malawarebytes scan, also used the free CCleaner to tidy things up and made sure my McAfee was up to date. The McAfee had went OAS disabled a couple of times (whatever that means) which an IT friend told me indicated that something bad was happening. Had to do a Google search to find a fix and implement it a couple of times. If your not confident about these things (and I am no expert), its a bit of a fumble.
I posted a link to malawarebytes earlier. My IT friend recommended this as being amongst the best free downloads. Things have been running okay recently though I’ve had a spooky ‘two people are spying on you’ pop up. The first time I clicked the pop up which indicated it could tell me who (it didn’t). The next time I didn’t bother for fear that it was itself some sort of virus or trick.
I’ve noticed Charlottes latest has only received a couple of dozen reads on Scrib’d as opposed to the usual three thousand straight away. Not sure if folks have failed to appreciate that after clicking on the link from twitter you then need to click on another link at the bottom of the ‘UEFA licence – SFA Governance’ page. This further link (underlined) reads :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/147863235/DOS-Index
The document that then appears has a series of entries each prefixed with a DOS number (DOS01 to DOS28). If you notice, each DOS number is underlined. If you click on the DOS number you get linked to the relevant document that Charlottes brief comment refers to.
She has obviously taken some care to compile this information in an orderly format. It seems strange that only a few dozen people appear to have accessed each document.
TSFM, if I were you I’d be keeping a close eye on my anti-virus and malaware updates.
Thanks CoT, I already use malwarebytes! I was wondering if there had been something wrong with blog, so my initial post was more of a test post! Spain game nearly finished, so bed shortly.
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:41 am
Just checked and your right, looks like charlotte was too helpful and dumped a little too much for most people to read.
Seems her previous method was more effective, lets hope we don’t get a wiki-leaks type dump, or we will never get through it all.
Or maybe it’s just a weekend thing!
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:24 am
“What authorities should I approach? I tried SFA. tried UEFA, tried FIFA on the registration issue.”
——————-
I commend your efforts Auldheid. Since (as I have read on here) the tax affairs of RFC(IL) are confidential between it and HMRC, I’d imagine the SFA would have to rely on the club being open concerning any outstanding issues. RFC(IL) have a track record of witholding information from the authorities (side letters) so it wouldn’t be wild speculation to suggest that they migh have been economoc with the truth concerning their tax affairs.
I suppose this takes us back to BRTH’s header blog. Any system of governance needs checks and balances. These are generally brought about through the light of experience; as flaws or loopholes in the regulations are recognised, amendements are implemented to take account of them. Or to be more elegant, different parts of the system are in tension with each other to ensure fair compliance.
The FIFA fair play rules will require a level of transparency to implement. It would not be tenable to allow clubs to make submissions without documentary evidence to back them up. Otherwise a sporting advantage might accrue to a club that was not honest. I’d imagine in the case above, a requirement could have been made to have a statement from HMRC detailing any oustanding tax. HMRC may have been quite happy to supply such a statement since it in effect would be a curb on infringing their code.
It may be that we cannot mete out retrospective punishment (I’m sounding like Mr. Bryson, I know). More a case of learning the lesson. They may have got away with it once and we and many others will now recognise this. It must not be allowed to happen again. The SFA would do well to avail themselves of the RTC mantra : Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Castofthousands.
I made your point about more robust policing a couple of years back when the tax case came into the public sphere. Its on CU somewhere and the need is becoming clearer with each passing day.
The SFA have no option but to come clean and face the consequences.
However in that respect I believe in truth and reconciliation ( guess what? I’ve blogged on that too 🙂 ) but before reconciliation you have to have truth and that is sadly lacking so far.
I do wonder if there is a worry we cannot handle the truth but I think across the broad support spectrum, after initial anger and a bit of justice, the reconciliation and healing our game needs will be seen as the best way forward.
Mistakes, serious ones have been made by folk afraid of the consequences for football if they did what they were supposed to do. They were wrong but probably thought they were right. However that is for later, first of all we need the truth.
I think deep down that is what most of us want, then we can all deal with what it brings.
upthehoops says:
June 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm
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100BJD says:
June 16, 2013 at 1:12 pm
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Perhaps Keiron Prior is simply enjoying the instant fame and elevation to great heights the Scottish media bestow upon people who are associated with Rangers. So far he’s a genius, indeed with the 2nd highest IQ of all time – well so we are told. Then again Whyte was a billionaire, Brian Kennedy was one of the greatest ever Scottish businessmen, Bill Millar was was one of the greatest ever American businessmen etc.
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A bit like flies roon a shite then?
chancer67 says:
June 16, 2013 at 3:39 pm
Rumours on RM that Mediahouse contract terminated !
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Can’t see Mediahouse surrendering lightly.
In one of the posts above reference was made to an officer of the HMRC. I know him from previous battles he is a conscientcious pursuant of PAYE miscreants. I don’t know which team he supports and I don’t care but his bosses need to get his name removed from the docs.
Palacio67 says:
June 16, 2013 at 3:26 pm
More importantly the rest of the SPL clubs knew about reconstruction too but waited till the last minute to implement it.
And we still do not know what teams will be playing in what divisions.
Morning All.
What to expect this week?.
On Wednesday,Whytes deadline for RIFC to reply to his LBA is due.Funnily enough,on the same day the investors tied in for 6 months can sell if they wish to do so.
Will CtH play the “nuclear card?.
Or will we still be sitting here no further forward than we are today?.
I’ll go for the latter.
If it was the parent company that went into liquidation ,why were the sheriff’s officers chalking up furnishings belonging to the club ?
just wondering like
paulsatim says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:08 am
3 3 Rate This
where has everyone gone??
—————-
I for one was out doing sport We had a regional match against another town on the red clay. Exhausting stuff. Then there were some great events to catch up on (Murray at Queens, nice) & the US Open, which, after a day like that worked like knock-out drops n me. One huge mystery was solved when I got on the blog though – the disappearence of mullach 🙂
A quiet blog is ok. Suggests that folks only contribute when there is something substantial to discuss, or when they’ve had a chance to digest new information. Speaking of which, the links on the latest CF dos docs won’t open on my iPad …. ?
bogsdollox says:
June 17, 2013 at 3:08 am
7 2 Rate This
Palacio67 says:
June 16, 2013 at 3:26 pm
More importantly the rest of the SPL clubs knew about reconstruction too but waited till the last minute to implement it.
And we still do not know what teams will be playing in what divisions.
…………………………………………………
Their track record suggests..they will leave it as long as is possible before announcing…in order to leave us the fans as little time as possible to mobilise any meaningful resistence..
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:15 am
============================
It seems clear to me that the SFA have decided to ride out whatever storm is created by the public release of information safe in the knowledge the MSM will not run with it. Any public utterances are of the ‘let’s move on’ variety rather than ‘let’s reflect on our mistakes’, or worse still, ‘let’s admit our deliberate wrongdoing’. It’s not just the SFA and the MSM though, no-one in any sort of authority seems interested in the potential corruption that may have taken place.
A question I often ask myself is ‘what if this was Celtic?’ I say Celtic only because they are the direct opposite of Rangers and are a huge club with a huge fan base. We have already seen fairly recently how the SFA dealt with the liquidation of Gretna so there is no need to ask if the rules would be applied to a smaller club. Recently I asked two colleagues who support Hibs and Aberdeen, and a friend who supports Kilmarnock, what they think would have happened to Celtic if they had had an identical situation to Rangers. All of them answered along the lines of believing the authorities would not want to lose a club of that size with its support, but whatever club was allowed to enter the leagues would be considered a completely new club with all the history of the previous club coming to an end. It would be made publicly clear that a liquidation event meant just that, and the written and spoken media would ask as many insolvency experts as they could to ram that fact down the throat of the Celtic support. They also agreed that if there was a chance to deny Celtic a Euro licence which in turn would have elevated Rangers to the Champions League, the SFA would have made that decision in a heartbeat.
Personally I believe the influence of Rangers in certain areas of Scottish society is stronger than it’s ever been. Only social media and its ability to mobilise fans of all clubs prevented the ultimate injustice of Rangers playing in the SPL last season. The SFA know it, the MSM know it, and Rangers know it. The alternative would have been the MSM patronising us all with what is best for the game and we would have had no voice to disagree. Collectively we can still be proud, despite the frustrations of still wondering if justice will every fully be done.
I downloaded the DOS document, but the links to each paper do not work on my tablet. Any access advice would be gratefully received.
Yesterday’s Charlotte documents were very interesting, and for non-experts (like me), the way they were organised really helped tell the story. It’s amazing how the Rangers hierarchy just didn’t seem to grasp just how real the danger to them was, even when it was being spelt out in easy to understand sentences.
Cortes says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:27 am
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I downloaded the DOS document, but the links to each paper do not work on my tablet. Any access advice would be gratefully received.
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I believe the links will only work while you are viewing them on the scribd site, in other words the links are internal to that site. I had to access each page on the site frrom the index page, then download each page individually. Took me a while, but maybe there’s a better way? I’m no expert!
upthehoops says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:10 am
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Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:15 am
============================
It’s hard to disagree with that upthehoops. Regarding the authorities’ actions, like Auldheid, I reckon that there are those who genuinely believe in their heart of hearts that their treatment of that club was in the best interests of Scottish football – and, if given the same set of circumstances, would do the same again. If that one club is the darling of the authorities and the media you’ve got to ask why. I’ve noticed that much of the new media does not carry this bias. All the more reason to support new media initiatives. Perhaps the likes of the ubiquitous Mr Irvine does not carry that much clout among the new fanzines and blogs?
Following on from Auldheid’s point about the truth, the disturbing part is that the truth of the situation is now blindingly obvious and has been for a very long time. You can to a certain degree understand and almost sympathise with genuine bluenose supporters who simply ignore the facts and/or switch off in denial. Not many clubs are liquidated, and very few big clubs. It’s traumatic. But what is more difficult to understand are the people in authority – in the media, and in football governance – who are twisting facts and re-interpreting reality.
A recurring name in the recent CF stuff is that of Mr Irvine, spinmeister extraordinaire. His association with this story has revealed a new layer of truth for all to see. Questions that could now be asked are: Were favours granted by Mr Irvine to gain such influence? Since he is paid for his work, does he in turn make payment to ‘agents of influence’? Is it a mere coincidence that certain leading media voices began spreading the myth that a newco is really an oldco, newly washed and dried? Is it by chance that certain media voices began repeating, parrot-fashion, the same mantra regarding ‘death of football without Rangers’, ‘oh how we need the Old Firm matches’, ‘get them back to the SPL pronto’, and so on. Have any current radio, TV or written-press jounalists received any favours from Mr Irvine, or his like, with a view to lobbying for special treatment of the oldco and newco?
Cortes says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:27 am
I downloaded the DOS document, but the links to each paper do not work on my tablet. Any access advice would be gratefully received.
_____________________________
If you have any problems with the DOS downloads then email me at carucalcalatgmaildotcom and I will send them to you.
Cortes says,
i had trouble seeing the contents of the scribled files on the ipad, but you can use the option “open in safari” if you press the arrow in the box icon after you open them ( is that the share one?) anyhoo this often helps
Thanks for advice, folks!
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:15 am
“They were wrong but probably thought they were right. However that is for later, first of all we need the truth.”
———————
I’m a big fan of the truth. For me, if you know you are going to have to explain your actions it makes you more circumspect in what you do. Being truthful also means that you have a fairly independent measure to guide you when you deviate from it. In the long run it is easier that trying to account for a whole series of deceptions. It simply makes life easier.
That said, I would be considered naive by many. Short term gain is the order of the day and if that means not being open and honest then the ends justify the means. This approach totally ignores the entrained injustice, complexity and inflexibility of deception. Perthaps we see the symptoms of this in the governing bodies rule books.
The problem with being truthful is that sooner or later someone comes along and tells a great big whopping lie and trumps you. People love being told what they want to hear. Its as if we’re genetically configured to be misled. We don’t want naive people to be in charge because they’ll just get conned. We want con men in charge because they won’t. Its a sad paradox.
There is room for ethics but they usually emerge long term; once the shysters have utterly embarrassed themselves and ruined the thing they were meant to be guardian of. For a while thereafter there is an outbreak of morality before the whole cycle kicks in again. The best we can do is to bear witness to ensure that the morality phase is part of the cycle.
Danish Pastry says:
June 17, 2013 at 7:50 am
“One huge mystery was solved when I got on the blog though – the disappearence of mullach 🙂 ”
——————–
I posted under this cognomen a few times in RTC days. It cropped up again in my logon to the new site so I re-adopted it. Its less gutteral ans slides off the tongue easier I think.
I agree with every word of your post, except your final sentence, “despite the frustrations of still wondering if justice will every fully be done.”
I suffered from such frustration for many months, but the combined efforts of Lord Hodge, Lord Nimmo Smith, and the SFA have stopped me wondering about justice in relation to anything to do with a team playing at Ibrox. You can add the 41 other clubs to my guilty list. I still can hardly believe that not one club out of the 41 put forward any alternative to last week’s squalid little canonisation of Ogilvie. That tells me, finally and conclusively, that Charlotte can post the entire contents of her cache onto the internet this morning, and the SFA won’t even feel it necessary to comment, no matter what evidence of blatant corruption and favouritism inside Hampden is revealed. And neither will any of the clubs- not one of them.
As for the MSM, I’m afraid there is a blatant cover-up going on here. In my opinion they could use this stuff if they wanted to use it, regardless of how it was acquired in the first place.I am still waiting for a sensible explanation as to why it can’t be used. All the Wikileaks stuff was illegally obtained, but the press just went ahead and published. Unless of course an Interdict has been granted? I would just love to know the name of the judge who would grant an interdict in such a case, but I’ll tell you this, any request for an interdict on behalf of anything with “Rangers” in its title would receive rapid consideration and a favourable outcome if targeted properly. That is the degree of cynicism that this saga has engendered in me, and that cynicism now extends to almost every aspect of public life in Scotland.
Talking of which, any word on the Police “investigation” into the Craig Whyte takeover? Given their powers to obtain documents and question people, that should have been a quick job. Shouldn’t it? So what’s going on? Maybe they can’t hang Whyte out to dry in case he takes Sir David down with him? That sums up my view on Scottish justice.
As regards the licence issue, now we know the truth, the authorities have always known the truth, the MSM know the truth, but absolutely nothing will be done- or even said. That’s how it works in bonnie Scotland. Ignore it and we’ll all forget it, eventually.
Last week’s little tweak of the rules on trialists just puts the icing on the cake . We have a game that is rotten to the core, blatantly corrupt, and run entirely for the advantage of one club out of 42. And the 41 just go along with it. But why?
Danish Pastry says:
June 17, 2013 at 9:21 am
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The most puzzling (at best) and sinister (at worst) aspect of all this is the re-writing of liquidation law by people who know nothing about it. Going back a year we had, among others, Charles Green, a ‘quality’ paper in the Herald, and a gutter rag like the Daily Record all agreeing that liquidation was the end for Rangers as everyone knew them. Then the spin started, and as I recall Paul Clarke of Duff & Phelps was first to say the ‘history’ could be sold as an asset, just as easily as dumping all the debt. Green quickly jumped on it as did the media and now by stealth their objective has been achieved whether it exists in fact or not.
@neepheid.
You’re very very wrong.
I know you to be wrong.
I’ll say more when I can.
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:58 am
0 0 Rate This
@neepheid.
You’re very very wrong.
I know you to be wrong.
I’ll say more when I can.
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It won’t be the first time I’ve been wrong, but wrong about what? Everything? Maybe I’m living in a wee country where truth, right and justice always prevail, but somehow I just can’t see it? Anyway I’m intrigued now, so I’ll just wait patiently for further information.
Are the SFA hierarchy so compromised that it serves some clubs interest to keep them in power so as to have leverage for events yet to unfold? For there to be not 1 single challenger, or even dissenting voice, for the election to SFA president appears to be extremely odd otherwise, given the events that have unfolded over the 2years previous.
It was noted somewhere in internet world that the Celtic CEO had a meeting with MP’s to discuss the challenges facing Scottish football clubs – has this been verified? I wonder what the desired outcome of such meeting could be?
On another note – a few years back, the Celtic chairmen openly discussed having a dossier which would have been unflattering to the SFA. Did this dossier ever see the light of day? The buzzword from the SFA at the time was transparency, and how the new SFA CEO would implement a framework for this. As events surrounding the liquidation of Rangers have unfolded, there has evidently been a severe lack of transparency from all stakeholders in Scottish football. It is curious, to this by-stander at least, why this focus has changed so much.
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:11 am
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Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:15 am
“They were wrong but probably thought they were right. However that is for later, first of all we need the truth.”
_____________________________________
I agree with the rest of your words in your post. The thing about ethics being cyclical is interesting in that life’s design is that when we feel the impact of forgetting ethics we remember again. Its a pity we lose our collective memories at times.
However it is a bit more on Truth and Reconciliation that I’m posting because I think we are going to need that attitude to help tease the truthg out of its hidey hole. There is a lot of information in the links in this article on Celtic Underground.
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=596:nothing-to-see-here-timmy–move-on&catid=45:season-2010-2011&Itemid=80 but before anyone looks a couple of points.
1. A couple of the links to the International Forgiveness Institue in the article no longer work as a result of the IFI revamping their site. I have put the new links in the last comments box at the bottom of the page. (As a subject in its own right forgiveness is a very interesting one to explore)
2. The orginal blog was written for a Celtic site for Celtic supporters in the main and I ask readers to forgive that and look at the meat of what is being said and not react to something a non Celtic supporter might.
My feeling is that when the truth gets out there (and it will) reconciliation will be all that can save our game.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:09 am
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:58 am
Opinion change again;
My thoughts on the legal reasons for not mentioning Charlotte have now changed from simple complicity of the MSM (although I’ll reserve my position on that for some of them) to simply the rules around reporting of ongoing police investigation, whether into charlotte herself or her information supplier or maybe even (if we are lucky) the issues that bring us here.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:27 am
……………………………………..
I agree entirely…and I said a long time ago after watching the LNS verdict being delivered which flew in the face of the facts…that the SFA have now realised they can do what they want, whenever they want for the sole benefit of one club regardless of the rights and wrongs…
In the beginning they worked very hard at hiding the truth and their complicit behaviour in order to front themselves as an independent body….however as the weeks and months have trundled on and the internet bampots have made it increasingly difficult to hide the truth and their complicity…they have had no option but to continue regardless of what the public discover they have been up to…. regardless of how corrupt it confirms they are….what makes it easier to sit at your desk with the biggest and boldest brass neck ever known to man in this fiasco of lies and corruption without any shame or care about Scottish football is if you love and support the one club its all geared to help….CO ex-shareholder…ex-director…and tax beneficiary of the GOVAN club…yet he is left in position to be part of the decision making process on the club he loves and supports….there are others at the SFA who are either ex-season ticket holders or shareholders of the Govan club….they do not care how obvious….blatent or dishonest it gets…they are protecting the club they support..
I’m pretty sure Hearts will not receive such commitment or dishonest determination..
If we are honest we could see how this would pan out when the transfer embargo was manipulated to allow SEVCO to have a short term circumvention of a diluted punishment…a punishment that a Scottish court stated was not within their rules to apply….but was applied so as to avoid applying expulsion…
The whole charade has been disgusting…
Hampdenbore says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:13 am
…………………………………..
Who would want to take over the almighty mess and dishonesty that has been created?
There maybe some merit in what you state….leave the man in situ who has been responsible for this disgrace until it is done and dusted? The only problem with that is…it might be to late!
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:09 am
Nil desperandum and Auspice Deo (or Phil if you are an atheist 🙂 )
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:25 am
My feeling is that when the truth gets out there (and it will) reconciliation will be all that can save our game.
++++++++++++++++
I was thinking about the truth and reconciliation process recently. I am all for truth, and all for reconciliation, but for reconciliation to stand a chance, there has to be honesty on all sides. The problem is dealing with people who will never, ever, ever, until the end of time, admit that they have done anything wrong. Their whole psychology is built on their own supremacy and sense of superiority. Any admission of guilt would fatally undermine their self image, and so just will not be allowed to happen. A quick read through some Rangers forums reveals this mentality in full flow. They are always right, everything is someone else’s fault, because they simply can’t contemplate being in the wrong.
I cannot see that mentality ever changing. In fact the events of the last 2 years, rather than undermining it, have simply reinforced it. So how can you get from that sort of mindset to reconciliation? You can’t, in my opinion. Especially when you are dealing with people who see absolutely no need for reconciliation, since they are certain they have done nothing wrong. Produce as much evidence of wrongdoing as you like- it’s all just a timmy conspiracy.
Reconciliation is a noble aspiration, but not achievable in this case, I’m afraid. But then I may, yet again, be very, very wrong- I hope so.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:50 am
That about sums it up in a nutshell although its not supremacy, its fear. Fear of what being in the wrong means, fear of the consequences.
But when you see the lengths that are being gone to in order to make a wrong “right” , it is almost laughable. Like the wee boy caught in the orchard with pockets stuffed with apples saying “it wisnae me”
We all know how deeply the SMSM delves into succulent lamb when it’s dished-up on a plate to them and we’ll never ever let them forget billionaire wealth off the radar.
And I have to say that, unlike some, I have no qualms that probably the world’s most intelligent man has decided to invest in Rangers as I learnt a long time ago just because you’re brainy doesn’t mean you’ve got any common sense. I have also discovered that the actions of many many people in business and finance can differ widely on whether they are playing with their own capital or other people’s money.
So in trying to make a judgement on whether Kieran Prior’s business judgement for Rangers is flawed or not I have ignored his short-lived directorships in the now dissolved companies of Perestroika Ltd and Redi Help Business Solutions Limited.
This really leaves us with his private equity company Pri Arc LLP with its mix of clients some apparently South African-based. It’s a new company so difficult to make much of its affairs and, not surprisingly, is yet to make a profit.
So how do we judge Mr Prior’s business ability in view of the vision he has proclaimed to return Rangers to football’s top table?
Perhaps the best way is to examine a project very close to his own heart – The Priority Trust – which Prior co-founded with Mark Borland who became Chief Executive of the charity.
A recent Daily Record article stated: ‘Prior’s charity spent almost £350,000 funding mobility equipment for children in the three years to March 2011, although it has been less active in the two years since. He says he has taken a pause for breath to focus on his start-up private equity firm Pri Arc’.
However, using Charity Commission and Priority Trust figures the amount spent on purchasing mobility equipment in those three years I calculate to be only £147,919 but £192,146 was spent on Employee, Support & Governance Costs.
I am amazed at the amount of money spent in costs exceeding that actually spent in buying mobility equipment for children and young people. I am not surprised that the Daily Record appears to have sloppily portrayed what I assume to be the combined figure wrongly as the amount spent ‘funding’ mobility equipment.
The cost/donation ratio surprises me as it appears that Mark Borland was the only employee of The Priority Trust which appears to have acted as a ‘post box’ by sending donations it generated to mainly much bigger multi-million £ charities who used the money to provide the mobility equipment for their client base but provided The Priority Trust with follow-up feedback on the recipients for use on its website and blog.
I think it’s also considering ‘the pause for breath’ mentioned by Mr Prior and the ‘success’ of the charity in the first three years before it became ‘less active’ in the following two years.
I judge a charity’s success in how well it raises funds to meet its core objectives whilst managing costs. As to costs I won’t dwell on that issue as it’s a matter for a charity’s trustees and auditors as to judging the ‘efficiency’ of a charity and the directions taken. However in the first year I note that out of support costs of £56,590 that £47,500 was spent on consultancy – I make no comment on the appropriateness as I can’t see any details of the work carried out.
In general I am amazed that in such a tiny charity that employee costs for the first three years amount to £129,440 especially when under £150,000 was spent on providing mobility equipment.
But I applaud Mr Borland the CEO taking a 25% salary cut in year 2 because fundraising had collapsed and I commend Mr Prior for apparently providing funding of £25,000 towards the CEO’s salary in each of years 2 & 3.
However, let’s return to raising cash and it’s my belief that The Priority Trust was in trouble from the end of year 1 partly because IMO there appears to have been a change in focus if not direction from raising funds to buy equipment to one of creating an internet voice for disabled children and youngsters to empower them and through that blogging platform, led by Kieran Prior, spread the word and presumably generate increased funding.
Personally I believe that was a flawed concept but this post and blog isn’t the place to debate those issues. Suffice to say that it did not increase website readership and donations dwindled.
So let’s look at the actual donations received in the first three years and see what actually happened and I have excluded bank interest, money from the trustees and gift aid to drill down to what was generated purely from external sources.
I calculate, on my basis, that 1st year income was £150,721; 2nd year income as £3,258; 3rd year income as £11,651 although £7,500 of that was a donation from another charity.
I will remind you of the Daily Record ‘less active’ phase after the first three years and I would say after one year the charity was in trouble and mainly kept afloat by the £50,000 injected to pay the CEO’s wages in years 2 & 3.
The annual report for year 3 states: ‘The Trustees realise the need for a major re-think of how Priority proceeds. Mark Borland, our CEO has voiced similar concerns to the board and in particular does not believe that Priority is working in its current setup. As a result of this he resigned from his position as from 31 March 2011.
‘For the time being, Priority is continuing in a non-trading state, where all expenses have been cut to a minimum and no further grants will be made. The Board is in ongoing discussions to decide on the best course of action for Priority, assisted by Mark Borland on a non-paid basis.
‘To support this process, opinions are being sought from external sources with experience of charity governance and the disability arena in the UK’.
Where are we know? Well year 4 saw an income of £66 and spending of £1,847 and of the original five trustees two have resigned. So the decline continues.
It’s a great pity that the Daily Record didn’t hire a business reporter to interview Mr Prior or even one of its dwindling band of good news reporters but relied on a sports hack.
Rangers might be a footballing club but it is also an iconic Scottish Institution and in view of Mr Prior’s tsunami-like arrival and visions for the club then it’s a great pity that a searching, in-depth interview wasn’t carried out to determine what Mr Prior’s actual qualifications are to shape that future instead of lazily doing a cuttings job. Scotland and indeed Rangers deserves better.
Sometimes dreams aren’t enough and the starting point was to determine what went wrong with his charity venture which, despite the joy it brought some disabled children, is miniscule compared to the complexity and difficulties involved in not only running Rangers but ensuring its survival.
Personally I see a situation where Mr Prior left his long-term employer, possibly with a discrimination case in the wind, and threw a lot of time, energy, passion and money into a project dear to him. It didn’t work out and it appears it has been left to twist in the wind which is sad for disabled children. The big question is what will happen if things don’t work out for Mr Prior at Rangers as he may yet discover the Ibrox football arena is harder to operate in than the dealing floor of Goldman Sachs.
Auldheed / Neepheid
Good posts, and what strikes me now is the phrase “without fear or favour” that appeared in the SFA.
How did that come about? Was it because that fear and favour was precisely what was behind the thinking and decisions? Maybe subconciously they then verbalised and denied that fear and favour was indeed the drivers.
I think everyone knows by now the vital importance of CL money to Rangers survival in 2011. What is interesting is that this point was put to HMRC in July by Grier in terms of justifying spending money on players rather than paying the tax due.
HMRC obviously saw this importance, going as far as to ask for an update after the forthcoming CL game. (Rangers were 0-1 down after the first leg at home on 26th July. They drew 1-1 on 3rd August to exit CL..
It is clear that no agreement of any kind existed when the licence was granted after being submitted to UEFA by 31st May under Article 50.
It is not clear what UEFA were told in July by SFA (or in turn they told by Rangers) for UEFA to give verbal assurances to SFA that the licence would not be withdrawn under Article 66. This process would take place during July/August. It looks like the justification used was “ongoing discussions” but those were not about disputing the bill, they were about agreeing terms to pay and no such agreement was ever reached.
There is no record either of the £500k payment towards the tax bill being made, the reporting of which first emerged in September and was taken as a fact by reporters of the issue thereafter.
It is hard not to conclude that all parties saw an advantage to themselves of Rangers getting CL momey. It would have kept the club going satisfying Rangers and the SFA and SPL at that time and it would have paid the wee tax bill satisfying HMRC.
The point though is that Rangers were only in a position to get at the CL money because of the tax schemes that improved their chances of winning titles (LNS knows hee haw about fitbaw) not to mention the accumulated debt that UEFA themselves were starting to put the shackles on with the introduction of FFP.
The Carslberg level irony is that the backoffice unsporting skullduggery to put the club in that postion in the first place was undone by sporting merit on the field of play.
I wonder how this wrong will be painted “right”?
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:41 pm
I think everyone knows by now the vital importance of CL money to Rangers survival in 2011. What is interesting is that this point was put to HMRC in July by Grier in terms of justifying spending money on players rather than paying the tax due.
HMRC obviously saw this importance, going as far as to ask for an update after the forthcoming CL game. (Rangers were 0-1 down after the first leg at home on 26th July. They drew 1-1 on 3rd August to exit CL..
It is clear that no agreement of any kind existed when the licence was granted after being submitted to UEFA by 31st May under Article 50.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Indeed, After being given the runaround and being lied to HMRC lost patience and issued determinations on 20 May 2011. No appeal was made within the 30 day time limit. The tax was therefore outstanding at 31 May 2011 and either RFC lied to the SFA about the debt or the SFA swept it under the carpet and issued a licence anyway. Either way we deserve to be told as another club lost out on a European place that year and have suffered financially.
Auldheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:25 am
“My feeling is that when the truth gets out there (and it will) reconciliation will be all that can save our game.”
——————
Yes Auldheid, reconciliation has to be the end game. Finding the truth to balance the equation has been the goal of this blog and I feel it has been remarkably successful in doing that. We need to think about what success should look like. Would it be the extermination of Rangers as a recognisable entity? I think not. You cannot eradicate an idea. If you try to do so you only make it stronger. Both traditions in the west of Scotland and the many other traditions that exist throughout the country have a right to exist by their very nature. When we are willing to accept other cultures we implicitly recommend acceptance of our own culture. I must wonder what the primary school Rangers fan must be feeling. They will not understand the politics or commerce. They will only know that something they have been taught to consider precious is in trouble. It would be the same for any club in similar circumstances. The suits or bampots might know the detail of the machinations but vast swathes will simply be living helplessly with the consequences. We should be aware that when we undermine each other we undermine ourselves.
I’m going to post a piece of video that is off topic and contains much bad language. It is also very entertaining and informative. The ‘Artist Taxi Driver’ has been railing against the political class for some time. In this episode he describes how society is becoming fragmented. It is very reminiscent of the bit of poetry that was posted previously about how we need to help each other. The video ends with the clinching line: The end of empathy. When we reach a position that we can no longer empathise with each other then I believe we lose the power to act.
http://youtu.be/AwbY1hyYt2U
paulmac2 says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:35 am
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neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:27 am
……………………………………..
The events in Scottish Football, and Hampden in particular are utterly digusting and may well kill the game in Scotland. Who would want to part with their hard earned cash to watch a ‘sport’ that is manifestly fixed? Whatever the short term commercial consequences of the death of RFC, the long term consequences of prising open the coffin lid and resurecting the zombie tRFC and, providing them with a brand spanking new suit of emperors clothes (only 141 years old) may just be the last straw for the thousands of fans who enjoy the beautiful game. At best the conduct of the SFA is akin to a rather accute variation of bycycle theory (if you stop peddling you will crash!) at worst it is a damning commentary of Scotland and her culture. I have argued on here that Scottish football is anachronistic and not representative of wider society, but with HMRC appearing to be the only agent in this whole sordid mess able to observe basic tropes of honesty and fairness I am beginning to wonder, where does this nonsense end? If enough people believe in a myth, the myth has consequences for the rest of us, I am fast losing patience with the inability of the stakeholders in Scottish football to act in a way that promotes even a modicum of decency and fairness, rather than blindly promoting the patently absurd.
Ecobhoy
Interesting stuff, but I for one am pleased at Kieran Prior’s arrival as a major minor shareholder in NewGers. I am not sure he is responsible for his tsunami like arrival – sure he obviously briefed someone (whether a journo or jabba himself) that he was about to buy a chunk o’ shares but as we all know, a drowning man clings to anything that floats and with NewGers head of PR, the SMSM and indeed the huge following of NewGers fans desperate for good news after their latest “blue on blue” firefight, Kieran was like manna from heaven…
I am sure we can all have our lives and businesses deconstructed – the fact I believe he was a prop trader, a unit Goldmans shut in 2010, gives us an indication when & why he may have left and why he had time & money on his hands. That his first salvo post-share purchase was to round on the salaries enjoyed by the management team @ Ibrox should come as no surprise to anyone with even a passing interest in NewGers financial situation, but that he seems to be an acquaintance of Malcolm Murray, the recently ousted NewGers chairman and his first target seems to be the remnants of the Green Team makes his a very interesting new playing piece to be introduced the the game…
If he is going to be as loquacious and is as interested in getting under the hood and bringing Newgers finances into the public domain as his early profile suggests, I am all in favour of the boy getting in deep…
I think many of us are in favour of a NewGers that is run within its means, that can ditch some of the unpleasant history and can return to the upper echelons of Scottish football on merit and with a workable business model. Ok it’s only a couple of interviews but Kieran, the physically disabled “genius” whose family hail from the Emerald Isle, may just be a key catalyst in this process.
Or not. Either way, I think he’ll be fun 🙂
I guess that the SFA are in somewhat of a dilemma with regards to the issuing of the euro licence. The simplest thing at this point would be to make a statement that they were misled by Rangers. However this would require them to take retrospective action against Rangers for their misdeeds. But, they would claim, the Rangers that told us porkies are no longer alive so we are unable to take any action against them. What about this club that is claiming all their history etc we cry? Surely by allowing them the history they are also liable for the failings during the historical period in time they are now claiming. If they are the same club (and you said they could be) then punishment must follow. If you cannot punish them because they are not the same club then show them as the new club in your records.
So do they fess up and say they were misled with all that carries or do they keep quiet and hope it all goes away. No answers required.
Good Afternoon,
As I said yesterday it has been many months since my last post.
If I had gone to sleep and woke up 9 months later it would seem like a day.
Nothing has changed in all of that time.
We are still governed by a totally inept and corrupt SFA.
I said last year that this was a brotherhood conspiracy and was told otherwise.
I said that if we did not cut the head off the beast it would come back twice as strong and triumphalist.
Tell me I was wrong.
Make no mistake this corruption goes all the way to the top and they only way we can win is to persist in our efforts to expose the truth.
They will do their best to ignore us and hope that we go away.
If we get battle fatigue and give up they will win.
In the land of sevconia they think they are beyond reproach and can do what they like but in the real world they cannot.
The fact is that in Law their precious club died, we know it they know it but cannot stomach the truth.
As for their billionaire investors with IQ’s off the radar it is all smoke and mirrors.
They are investing in a company which was founded on fraud which owns nothing and is worthless.
Listen to Charlotte and Craigy boy.
CW may be a lot of things, allegedly a liar, spiv etc but one thing he is not is a fool.
He has it taped.
Something caught my eye regarding Charlotte’s latest. In Dos 01 we get the two following statements :
1. “…DM confirmed net debt position as at 31/12/10 as…”.
2. “Directors of Charlotte considering issues in relation to ring fencing the monies…”.
Myself and Danish had mused that the ‘Charlotte’ sometimes mentioned in these documents was (S)DM. Here however a distinction appears to be made. DM might have been one of the directors but the wording doesn’t suggest this. So was Charlotte Chris Akers and Andrew Ellis?
Not ChalotteFakeovers, Project Charlotte. Were Chis Akers and Andrew Ellis Project Charlotte?
DM is probably Donald McIntyre.
jockybhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:18 pm
====================================================
Actually my post was meant to highlight the inadequacies of the SMSM in general and the Daily Record in particular rather than spotlight Mr Prior who I believe has been shamelessly used by an Ibrox Board faction. But that may yet emerge in the wash.
I can accept the initial euphoria about the IQ over the Moon as a good line for flogging papers but I haven’t seen any publication actually look at his business ability to sit on the Rangers Board. That’s not Prior’s fault but that of our Press. In many ways they are too lazy and stupid to craft conspiracies and just lap-up the guff doled out to them by PR companies.
As to his timing and reasons for leaving Goldman Sachs the first reports about his discrimination case came in October 2009 and he registered his charity in February 2008 although Incorporation was in December 2007. So it certainly came well before his leaving G&S in 2010.
http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2013/June/16/ethiopia-facing-fifa-investigation/n232634/
(off topic as nowt to do with scotland…)
but…
Seems over in Twitter land there are 2 or 3 Twitterers closing their accounts due to threats being made to them via others trying to name them publicy. Seems a bit of cyber bullying going on – Corsica1968 is at the main point of attack…..
CelticTruthSeeker @treborglasgow Protected account 13m
had started a blog on yes/no ? for Celtic fans but im gna back off for a while. Think iv made a good start but family first….Gone for now
Edgar Blamm @EdgarBlamm 28m
I’m bowing out of twitter for a while. Monkeys targeting Tims (even flunkies like me) for exposure. Probably nothing, but be careful.
Esta ☆☆☆☆☆ @esta_x 23h
@AnOrangeCount is Edgar the lucky man?
Achill Islam CSC Achill Islam CSC @Propa_Gander 1m
“@esta_x: @AnOrangeCount is Edgar the lucky man?”
By, “Lucky” do you mean the threat to expose their identity?
Very dangerous game/threat
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:00 pm
20 seconds of that video was enough for me.
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 12:24 pm
This really leaves us with his private equity company Pri Arc LLP with its mix of clients some apparently South African-based. It’s a new company so difficult to make much of its affairs and, not surprisingly, is yet to make a profit.
==============================
I had a go myself at researching this, but I couldn’t find a list of clients. You have probably posted it before, but can you post again with a link? An excellent analysis of the charity, by the way.
I looked at the website and the “portfolio”. One item on the portfolio is Priority, which you have ably dissected for us. Why a charity would appear on the portfolio of a private equity company escapes me, but it’s there.
Zenti ” is a ‘big data’ solution that uses highly parallel cloud based architecture and proprietary linguistic tools to analyse, classify and figure out what content is ‘about’ and then provide its users with intelligent actionable outputs.” I don’t even know what it all means. A very recent website, not much else on the Internet.
Then we have Yoohzoo, which hasn’t much of an internet profile apart from its own website, but involves people taking photos of themselves at events using supplied cameras. Again a recent website.
PriArc Executive Services appears to provide a Rolls Royce Phantom and some hired muscle for very rich people, By the name, I’m guessing that this is 100% owned by PriArc or its principals, but just a guess. Again a low profile outfit, at least on the Internet.
Then Pixshare, a company which in ways I don’t pretend to comprehend links photo sharing to social networking. They appear to have had Man Utd and a South African casino as customers, so a real business, maybe.
Now call me an old cynic, but I’m not seeing a private equity fund in action here, but rather a batch of hopeful start-ups.
I’m sure Mr Prior has a lot more money and a lot more brains than me, and for sure someone has paid £400k using Mr Prrior’s name, for a load of RIFC shares, But I’m guessing Dave King is behind this. Just a hunch. And I’m often wrong.
tomtomaswell says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:20 pm
I had not thought of that quandry.
Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice to Deceive
Someone already suggested this I’m sure, but would Mr Prior be playing a game here, buying shares at the bottom, talking the game up with a bit of publicity and move out quickly with a few bob earned or is he really interested in Rangers ? I’m sure he could find an excuse for bailing out peacefully even if he earned some cash on initial investment.
Yes Project Charlotte was Andrew Ellis anc Chris Ackers
It must be true, it was in the papers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1285455/Andrew-Ellis-brink-33m-Rangers-buyout-Project-Charlotte-enters-end-game.html
C Graham now into Ally Mcoist territory with giving details of posters online. Sickening indeed but it show’s you how they still operate over in Govan. Not a football matter technically but what shameless practise Mr Graham. Hopefully this matter will be addressed before someone is lynched by the Govan mob.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:05 pm
———————————————————————–
Have undernoted post you requested. I get the feeling that we could be looking at possible franchise companies in yoohzoo.com and Pixshare. But I agree with you doesn’t really look like private equity stuff. PriArc Executive Services is the same directors as Pri Arc LLP as you thought btw.
UNDERNOTE
I posted something yesterday which you might not have noticed and have undernoted. I am a little surprised at the ‘client’ portfolio on the PriArc website and note that it was first registered on 15 February 2012 by Kevin Prior’s business partner Steven Cracknell. For those who look at the importance of dates and timing – well who knows?
PRI ARC LLP was incorporated on 02/05/2012 and PRIARC CARS LIMITED on 27/11/2012.
UNDERNOTE:
In view of the interest in the new Rangers investor Kieran Prior I thought I would check-out the Pri Arc website portfolio which I presume lists their clients:
Liked the look of the name yoohzoo.com and I find the company’s webservers are based in South Africa and their address is on a South African business park at Kyalami with the phone number 0114660962.
That address and phone number is also the address and number of Media Republic whose website is: http://www.mediarepublic.co.za
Another name on thePri Arc portfolio is Pixshare.co.uk whose head office is based at the same South African address as yoohzoo.com
Pixshare does show a Europe/UK address at 6 Wardrobe Place, Carter Lane, London, EC4V 5AF, which is the same address as Pri Arc. However as well as pixshare.co.uk there is pixshare.co.za but I can’t seem to get the ‘whois’ info for that site which appear to be identical to the pixshare.co.uk site which although live still comes up as an available website name for purchase. Perhaps the documentation hasn’t caught-up.
PriArx Executive services has the same directors as Pri Arc so not surprising it appears on the client portfolio.
Zenti I have been unable to trace as the link just takes you back to the Pri Arc site. I note there has been a zenti twitter feed and also a zenti.com but neither appear to be active. I have also been unable to get any ‘whois’ info on Zenti.com
Didn’t there use to be another South African connection with Rangers or am I just getting confused with Don Kitchenbrand 🙂
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Something caught my eye regarding Charlotte’s latest. In Dos 01
——————————————————————————————————————————-
“JJB contract discussed in light of the CVA proposal to be voted on 22 March 2011”
Meeting held 21 March 2011
Email sent 22 March 2011
Others could suggest at 21 March 2011 all involved including Directors were [fully] aware the entity was Insolvent.
“Directors of Charlotte considering issues in relation to ring fencing the monies from season ticket sales if there was an insolvency situation”
Hector………………..
1. neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:05 pm
I’m sure Mr Prior has a lot more money and a lot more brains than me, and for sure someone has paid £400k using Mr Prrior’s name, for a load of RIFC shares, But I’m guessing Dave King is behind this. Just a hunch. And I’m often wrong.
—————————————————————————–
You are not wrong Neepheid, Mr Prior is a front for another person(s) as yet unknown. There is nothing in his documented history that would remotely qualify him to take over an organisation as big as this, there is also nothing “on the street” that indicates that he is capable of anything other than making some short term gains using other people’s money (and people that do that, very rarely do it to benefit others…).
He is being used big style, I could be way off base but I would not put it past these guys to be thinking that due to his disability, maybe he will not come in for the same scrutiny or criticism.
And on the point of his charity, I cannot ever see any negative in anyone that raises money for a good cause, no matter how much and over what period. Although it may be worth looking at to measure the success of a given project or an individual’s ability to manage a business or expectations, I would hate to see the guy’s motivation questioned.
ecobhoy says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Many thanks, just what I was looking for. Of course I should have looked for myself, and not been so lazy!
Sam says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Something caught my eye regarding Charlotte’s latest. In Dos 01
——————————————————————————————————————————-
“JJB contract discussed in light of the CVA proposal to be voted on 22 March 2011”
Meeting held 21 March 2011
Email sent 22 March 2011
Others could suggest at 21 March 2011 all involved including Directors were [fully] aware the entity was Insolvent.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It was the JJB creditors who were voting on a CVA for the second time in two years in March 2011.
bogsdollox says:
June 17, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Sam says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Castofthousands says:
June 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Something caught my eye regarding Charlotte’s latest. In Dos 01
——————————————————————————————————————————-
“JJB contract discussed in light of the CVA proposal to be voted on 22 March 2011”
Meeting held 21 March 2011
Email sent 22 March 2011
Others could suggest at 21 March 2011 all involved including Directors were [fully] aware the entity was Insolvent.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It was the JJB creditors who were voting on a CVA for the second time in two years in March 2011
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Absolutely correct, my mistake.
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm
C Graham now into Ally Mcoist territory with giving details of posters online. Sickening indeed but it show’s you how they still operate over in Govan. Not a football matter technically but what shameless practise Mr Graham. Hopefully this matter will be addressed before someone is lynched by the Govan mob.
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I have just had a scan through Mr Chris Graham’s twitter feed……absolutely disgraceful…and this is who STV decide to put up on TV as the Sevco thinking man’s representative……..the phrase intellectual pigmy comes to mind….
ForresDee says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:33 am
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:09 am
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:58 am
Opinion change again;
My thoughts on the legal reasons for not mentioning Charlotte have now changed from simple complicity of the MSM (although I’ll reserve my position on that for some of them) to simply the rules around reporting of ongoing police investigation, whether into charlotte herself or her information supplier or maybe even (if we are lucky) the issues that bring us here.
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I don’t know of any rules that prevent reporting anything subject to an ongoing police investigation and would be happy to know what they are.
My understanding was that unless a person had been charged and appeared in court that by and large everything, done legally, was fair game up until that point. It might annoy the cops and they might be obstructive but I doubt if they can prevent a report being done.
Sam says:
June 17, 2013 at 3:39 pm
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Nae bother. The general point that you make regarding trading whilst insolvent is a good one. Reading through the latest batch of documents makes it clear that there was no cash right from the start and there was a clear intention to use the VAT & PAYE money to keep the club going until the Euro cash came in and to the untrained eye it looks like solvency was a real issue. Let’s hope BDO do their job properly on that one.
When the Euro cash never came in, thanks to Alistair, the cash flow forecasts would have been reworked and would have shown the club was insolvent (if in fact it wasn’t already) irrespective of the outcome of the Big Tax case.
neepheid says:
June 17, 2013 at 10:27 am
As for the MSM, I’m afraid there is a blatant cover-up going on here. In my opinion they could use this stuff if they wanted to use it, regardless of how it was acquired in the first place.I am still waiting for a sensible explanation as to why it can’t be used.
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Have to say that I totally agree with you on this one – the stuff is there and can be used and as I keep arguing you don’t even need to use CF documents. It’s enough to know what went down or happened and just ask the right questions. It really is that simple for a journalist.
I have never seen anyone actually give me a good reason legally why it can’t be used in any case. So whatever’s stopping it has nothing to do with a legal restraint and talk of secret Super Injunctions or Interdicts is just that – Hot Air IMHO.
I see CF has returned to Jack Irvine
Exiled Celt says:
June 17, 2013 at 2:02 pm
Utterly shameful threats!! Par for the course for scum who have no backbone.