Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
Gaz says:
June 25, 2013 at 10:18 pm
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In order to save a lot of time and debate can we just decide now, should the next club be called
The Sevco
New Sevco
The New Sevco.
I don’t know if I could go through the same level of sophistry again. So if we just decide on the name now it will save people coming up with more and more tortuous “arguments”.
(The above post was sponsored by irony and facetiousness)
___________________________________________________________
I was trhinking ‘the artists formerly known as squiggle’?
(TAFKAS FC PLC?)
Although, on reflection, they are actually more ‘Michael Jackson’ than ‘Prince’ in point of fact!
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 22m
Duff and Phelps, are you sitting comfortably? Mark Daly provides a fine report here frmo October 2012. (cont) http://tl.gd/n_1rl17m9
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes
25th June 2013 from TwitLonger
Tweet
Duff and Phelps, are you sitting comfortably?
Mark Daly provides a fine report here frmo October 2012.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20090751
David Grier appears to be worried that the Duff and Phelps role in the takeover could be exposed further. A statement issued by Craig Whyte would be considered very helpful and take the heat away from D&P.
A statement was drafted, and as the BBC reported, sent by a Ted Smith to Craig Whyte.
—————————————————–
From: Ted Smith
Date: 1 June 2012
Subject: CW statement
To: Craig Whyte
I am happy to see that the CVA proposals put forward by the administrators are progressing and I hope creditors accept them and the club can exit administration.I want to make it clear again that I did not want to see Rangers fail in any way. There were serious financial problems at the club and if the club had to go into administration then it should be for as short a time as possible and the best way for the Club to move on from that is through CVA.
I am glad that the bid has been accepted offers good prospects for the Club to move forward and I always made clear that I would not stand in the way of a bid that was good for the club.
I am sorry to see all the controversy over the funding arrangements with Ticketus raked up again recently.
At the time, it seemed to be an appropriate way to proceed and would deliver cash to the Club and i acted with professional advice in making those arrangements. That advice did not come from MCR and no-one from that firm had knowledge of the full Ticketus arrangements at the time of the acquisition of the Club.
It would be in best interests of all at the Club if the CVA goes through and Rangers can move on. I wish the Club the best.
———————————
The statement was never released by Craig. It can be interpreted that the primary aim of the email was to protect the reputation of MCR, since swallowed up by Duff and Phelps.
Ted Smith is not a name known to Craig (or his aliases).
I’ve since reviewed this particular email. The header information, not visible by default in most email programs, highlights the origins of the sender.
———————————————-
X-Originating-IP: [38.98.178.150]
From: Ted Smith
———————————————-
Performing a whois lookup for the IP address returns the following info:
http://tinyurl.com/emailOrigin
Now for the shocking news:
What we appear to have uncovered is that Duff and Phelps, the Administrators of Rangers, sending via an unknown alias, a statement to be issued by Craig Whyte which has the primary purpose of backing Duff and Phelps role in the administration.
It all seems rather perverse and could be seen to reek of desperation.
Why did the Administrators feel the need to do this?
Have they compromised themselves in any way?
For the record, it is my absolute belief that David Grier and MCR knew the source of funding prior to the takeover. Duff and Phelps seek comfort in that there is no audit trail. Sadly this will return to haunt them and of course deliver the proverbial boot up the arse that they have always feared to be coming.
Perhaps BDO will add Duff and Phelps to the list of parties responsible for the losses incurred at RFC and raise a suitable action against them. For if they don’t, then the shareholders and creditors should consider taking that action.
IP Information for 38.98.178.150
IP Location: United States United States Darien Duff & Phelps
ASN: United States AS174 COGENT Cogent/PSI (registered May 16, 1996)
IP Address: 38.98.178.150 [Whois] [Reverse-Ip] [Ping] [DNS Lookup] [Traceroute]
Whois Server whois.arin.net
Guidi is an odd one also, Slimshady, perhaps reflecting editorial bias and leaving Shug MacDonald and Ronnie Cully as the token tims?
Glenn Gibbons: wield that pen/tickle that keyboard again, please…
Sam says:
June 26, 2013 at 12:34 am
———————————–
@AlexTomo …. this might be the break you need …. if CW will agree to work with you on it
I’m sure though that CW will want to control the stuff that AT releases (If ever happens … )
Might just be worth it though ….. the rest will follow in good time !
Sam says:
June 26, 2013 at 12:34 am
David Murray > Donald Muir > David Grier > Craig Whyte. Time to review the available links and time-lines.
Rangers administrators named ‘UK Corporate Restructuring Advisor of the Year’
By Scott McCulloch
Jun 27 2012
Finance magazine ACQ has named Rangers’ administrators Duff & Phelps UK Corporate Restructuring Advisor of the Year.
ACQ Finance Magazine Global Awards 2012 said the award “recognises Duff & Phelps as the UK’s leading Corporate Restructuring Advisor”.
Duff & Phelps was also named the Turnaround and Restructuring Advisory Firm of the Year UK and Debt Advisory Firm of the Year UK for the second year running at last night’s ACQ Global Awards.
“It is a real achievement for us to be recognised, not only locally, but also on a global scale by our peers, and one in which our entire team can take great pride”.
Clark was a co-founder of Manchester head quartered insolvency firm MCR until it was bought out by Duff & Phelps last October.
Craig Whyte’s takeover of Rangers is also now the subject of a criminal investigation, and Duff & Phelps senior partner David Grier was an advisor to Whyte before, during and after the deal was concluded.
Grier has denied the allegation, and has stated he only knew of Ticketus’ relationship with Rangers in their previous involvement with the club under the ownership of Murray.
Workshop Timings: Registration for this workshop will be at 08:00. The workshop will commence promptly at 08:30 and conclude at 14:30, followed by lunch. There will be two short refreshment breaks at appropriate intervals.
Evaluation of credit risk starts with knowing who you are transacting with and why your credit support is of importance to the client or particular transaction.
The importance of getting the ‘complete story’ at an early stage of a relationship cannot be understated. As time goes on relationships develop and credit risk matures and changes. It is here that practical and workable strategies for managing credit risk become significant in not just understanding the current nature of risk, but also working in partnership with clients to develop maximum client lifetime value.
During this workshop you will consider the following topics:
• Evaluation and assessment of new credit proposals
• Dealing with unusual transactions
• Tools and techniques for evaluating credit risk
• Portfolio assessment
• Limiting and controlling credit risk
• Credit risk vs Customer Relationship Management (CRM)
• How and when to exit relationships
The workshop will also consider some of the wider influences of credit risk, such as:
• Individual mindsets
• Companywide policies, procedures and controls
• Recent experiences – good and bad
• Lack of understanding – including sector and product knowledge
• Regulation
The workshop will investigate each of these issues to help you develop and build your own credit risk strategies. Practical hands-on exercises will be a feature of this workshop to enhance learning and encourage debate.
Meet Your Expert Workshop Leader
David Grier is the Managing Director of Active Receivables Management and Partner with Menzies Corporate Restructuring. Active is a dedicated resource to asset-based lenders, mainly in the UK, and offers a full range of risk review services to enable providers of receivables finance to develop and strengthen their lending position with clients.
David has spent more than 20 years working in the financial services and asset-based lending industry in roles that included Operations Director at Bank of Scotland Cashflow Finance and Head of Client Relations at Royal Bank of Scotland Commercial Services.
David holds an MBA and assists with training within the Factors and Discounters Association, lecturing on turnaround, recovery and receivables finance. He is a Member of the Institute of Credit Management and has experience implementing Customer Relationship Management processes. He specialises in leading change and delivering operational turnaround. David also provides non-executive director support to growing and developing companies.
The Lloyds meeting, in January 2010, with the usual suspects in attendance. Everybody and their dog knew where the funding was coming from:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142101511/Quantum
And why did Clark, Whitehouse and Grier meet (-S)DM and Mike McGill in Murray’s Charlotte Square office in late February 2012?
Correction: That, of course should read “The Lloyds meeting, in January 2011” not 2010. Apologies.
The Quantum e-mail (as I read it) is not so much a “will Ticketus give us the money?” but more “Can we get them to give us all of it, instead of only most of it, with some folding walking-about money thrown in?
So, Darrell King is now a florist you say… ?
Well he’s definitely not coming out of this smelling of roses! 😉
Thankyou very much…
Very interesting Twitter conversation…..
StevenD StevenD @stevendoyle75 4h
@CharlotteFakes has the media silence suprised you ?
Bartinho Bartinho @BartinhoBaroldo 4h
@stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes What if CF were from the media?
John MacLean John MacLean @JohnMcLean_HS67 4h
@BartinhoBaroldo
Let’s be honest … it shouldn’t matter. Tye story is right there. Docs are not fake.@stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 4h
@JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes What I’ve seen is defo not fake; matches other stuff I’ve been given 100%.
John MacLean John MacLean @JohnMcLean_HS67 4h
@corsica1968 exactly! The story could be: “Whistleblower rocks Scottish football to the … @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis@corsica1968 @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes Summit held in 4/12 w/ reps from Scot/UK govt, SFA, HMRC, SPL, plod; why?
John MacLean John MacLean @JohnMcLean_HS67 4h
@corsica1968 i would not know the answer to that one. @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 4h
@JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes Me neither because its been denied it happened but I know it happened.
Helikaon Helikaon @HelikaonHilkiah 4h
@corsica1968 @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes “The big hoose must stiy open, and thats the boatum line”
Hugh Lavery Hugh Lavery @hugelavvy 3h
@corsica1968 @johnmclean_hs67 @bartinhobaroldo @stevendoyle75 @charlottefakes i would imagine the words manchester and riots were used a lot
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 3h
@HelikaonHilkiah @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes Chuck in public disorder & we have a winner.
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 3h
@hugelavvy @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes ya think so?
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 3h
@JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes Why did Regan get bollocking for talking about “public disorder”?
Hugh Lavery Hugh Lavery @hugelavvy 3h
@corsica1968 @johnmclean_hs67 @bartinhobaroldo @stevendoyle75 @charlottefakes you dont need to be darrell king to work that one out
Hugh Lavery Hugh Lavery @hugelavvy 3h
@corsica1968 @johnmclean_hs67 @bartinhobaroldo @stevendoyle75 @charlottefakes remember the tape where d&p talk about worst scenario….
Hugh Lavery Hugh Lavery @hugelavvy 3h
@corsica1968 @johnmclean_hs67 @bartinhobaroldo @charlottefakes …we phone scottish government..they obviously had prior conversations
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 3h
@hugelavvy @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @CharlotteFakes #NotParanoidEnough Thats all I’m saying…goodnight zzzzzz
Bugsy Malone Bugsy Malone @Bugsymaloned 3h
@corsica1968 @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes Is ‘civil unrest’ just a convenient excuse? Or more 2 it?
waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis @corsica1968 3h
@Bugsymaloned @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes “credible threat”
StevieBC says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:28 am
So, Darrell King is now a florist you say… ?
Well he’s definitely not coming out of this smelling of roses!
================================================
He does appear bombproof mind you, just like everyone else Charlotte exposes. What WOULD need to be exposed for the media to actually comment? Whether we like it or not, while the MSM remain silent, these people are untouchable.
So the Record are the first MSM source to run with stuff from @CharlotteFakes hopefully it all comes out now!!!
At last – CF tapes make it in the MSM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-takeover-tapes-reveal-secret-1997376
For those who don’t want to give the DR a hit…..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-takeover-tapes-reveal-secret-1997376
Rangers takeover tapes reveal secret talks between Ibrox money men on selling shares to fraudster on Interpol’s most-wanted list
26 Jun 2013 06:53
FINANCE chief Brian Stockbridge is heard on the recordings from last summer talking to disgraced former owner Craig Whyte and axed commercial director Imran Ahmad about selling £5m worth of shares to Rafat Rizvi – who is wanted for “corruption, money laundering and banking crime” according to Interpol.
Getty Images
RANGERS’ finance chief Brian Stockbridge discussed selling £5million of shares in the club to a convicted fraudster on Interpol’s most wanted list.
Stockbridge is heard on tape talking to former Rangers owner Craig Whyte and the club’s axed commercial director Imran Ahmad about a possible cash injection from Rafat Rizvi, who is being pursued by police.
Interpol’s website carries a red notice international alert stating that Rizvi, 52, is wanted for “corruption, money laundering and banking crime” over his alleged role in the collapse of a bank in Indonesia.
The alert asks anyone with any information about his whereabouts or activities to contact police.
Last night, the Rangers Supporters Trust said the revelation that Rizvi was involved in talks was “highly disturbing”.
They called for fans to be told who has invested in Rangers and said: “We need to ensure the club have been cleansed of unwanted influences.”
Rangers insist Rizvi has made no investment in the club – but the fact that someone on Interpol’s wanted list was even discussed has prompted concern among fans.
The Record has listened to two hours of recordings that have been leaked on to the internet, where they are openly available to be heard.
During the taped discussions, Stockbridge and Ahmad thrash out a multi-million pound deal in London with shamed former owner Whyte.
The recorded meeting – which took place before the attempt to save Rangers from liquidation last summer – appears to show that Rizvi’s cash was going to be used to help finance Charles Green’s ultimately successful Ibrox takeover. Green has subsequently left the club.
At one point, Ahmad brags: “At the moment, what I’ve taken so far is actually £5.5million from Rafat now.”
At the time, Stockbridge was being lined up as the next man in charge of Rangers’ finances. The 39-year-old, who was appointed Rangers’ finance director in June last year, says on the tape that Rizvi is a “nice guy”.
He is also heard discussing Rizvi’s previous business dealings.
Speaking about a firm Rizvi was involved with, Stockbridge says: “Rafat was CEO of the company. He then had his troubles … Rafat sort of stepped down.”
The tape also includes discussion, involving Stockbridge, about the damage it might do to Rangers if Rizvi’s involvement was made public.
Stockbridge says: “How widely is it known? Rafat’s name is not mentioned anywhere, is it?”
Ahmad replies: “No, it is.” Stockbridge says: “You could get a headline saying, you know, ‘Convicted…’”
Ahmad then says: “In Indonesia it is like being convicted of something
in Pakistan. You know, he may not necessarily be guilty.
“He’s not nicked £600million. When we go out for lunches with him, we know. If someone has nicked £600million, they wouldn’t struggle to pick up lunch.”
Stockbridge says: “We don’t need this coming out. This is just…”
But Ahmad assures Stockbridge “there’s no paper trails” linking Rizvi to Rangers and adds: “There’s no connection.”
Stockbridge says: “If someone starts digging in there…”
But Ahmad interrupts and repeats: “There’s no connection. Charles is going to have to decide to say what he says. I’m not going to coach him. Personally, I’d tell the truth. Yeah, you know, I’ve worked with Rafat in the past, I’ve never acted for him while he was CEO but the company I took on he had to step down from as CEO because he was in disgrace.”
Stockbridge then asks Ahmad how to deal with any possible questions from the media about Rizvi’s
involvement behind the scenes.
He asks: “What happens if someone asks if he’s involved in this deal?” Ahmad replies: “No. An absolute straight no.”
The meeting ends with Whyte agreeing to sell control to the Green/Ahmad consortium in a deal which would have seen him pocket up to £5million worth of shares.
Green has subsequently insisted he was stringing Whyte along so he could get his shares — a plan he
says changed when the club were liquidated and Whyte’s shares
were no longer needed.
In the recordings, Ahmad claims Rizvi “and his mates” were prepared to plough about £5million into the deal to buy Rangers after the club had been wrecked by Whyte.
It is agreed by all three that Rizvi’s identity must remain confidential. Ahmad says to Whyte: “Let’s just say an association with you is much better than an association with Rafat.”
Rizvi features on Interpol’s wanted persons list under the name Ali Rafat Rizvi – and has done since 2009.
He was sentenced, in absentia, to a 15-year jail term in Indonesia for allegedly stealing from Bank Century, in which he was a shareholder.
But Rizvi, a UK national who was born in Pakistan, has been able to live as a free man in London and Singapore as there is no extradition treaty with Indonesia.
Rizvi insists he is innocent and has claimed the charges are trumped up and politically motivated.
He had previous business links with Ahmad and Stockbridge dating back to when the pair worked for London finance firm Allenby Capital.
He is also a friend and business partner of Green, who took his place on the board of Mongolia-based company Nova Resources.
During the discussions, Whyte asks Ahmad: “So Charles and Rafat are closer than you and Rafat?” Ahmad replies: “I’d say the relationship is equal.”
Ahmad also insists that both he and Stockbridge will team up behind the scenes at Ibrox to act in Whyte’s interests. He says: “You should regard us as your reps. We’ll be totally dispassionate. No loyalties to Charles or Rafat.”
Stockbridge says of Rizvi: “He’s a nice guy. I speak to him but I wouldn’t do a deal with him.”
And Ahmad adds: “We’ll take his money but that’s it.”
He then claims to have already banked £5.5million from Rizvi.
Whyte asks: “Is that £5.5million?”
Ahmad continues: “It’s not all from him. Five from Rafat and his mates. I think what Rafat’s done is taken £50,000 of cheap shares himself and he’s loaded his mates with £4.5million worth of expensive shares – because you know there were two classes (of shares)?”
Whyte and Ahmad then thrash out the terms of their own agreement. Ahmad says to Whyte: “I’d actually rather you have a controlling stake in it. Rather than the Rafat and f****** Charles Green show.”
Whyte says: “Yeah, exactly. That was always the intention. Let’s face it, we might need to ditch them at some point.”
Ahmad laughs and agrees: “We definitely need to ditch them.”
Later, Whyte stresses the need for secrecy about his own involvement and that of Rizvi.
He says: “I’m just thinking if things come out, if Rafat’s name comes up or if my involvement comes out…”
Ahmad replies: “I’ll just say it’s absolutely nothing to do with me, speak to Charles (laughs all round). Charles has got a lot more association with him than me in terms of he’s actually bought a company with Rafat.”
Ahmad later predicts – accurately, as it turned out – that Green will not last a year in the role of chief executive.
He says: “Charles will f*** himself. He won’t be able to help himself. He’ll be like a kid in a candy shop. He’ll get absolutely burnt alive there.”
The group then go on to discuss cashing in on the club’s best players – citing the sale of Nikica Jelavic to Everton for £5million.
Whyte claims he had little choice but to cash in on the Croat.
He says: “The problem with Jelavic was, everybody was annoyed that we sold him but he basically refused to play. He downed tools.”
Whyte adds of Gers manager Ally McCoist: “McCoist said, ‘Just sell him’. McCoist is useless. McCoist is f****** useless…”
Stockbridge has declined to make any on-the-record comments about the recordings and the issues they raise. Rangers insist Stockbridge met Whyte only on one
occasion and that there are no links between the pair.
An Ibrox spokesman said last night: “An independent forensic inquiry has been conducted inside Ibrox and the club and management have been cleared to carry on with their business.”
The spokesman added: “Brian Stockbridge has not had and does not have connections to Rafat Rizvi.”
Mark Dingwall, of the Rangers Supporters Trust, said last night: “Although both Charles Green and Imran Ahmad claimed they were only playing Craig Whyte along in order to obtain his shares, the content of the tapes of discussions led by Ahmad are highly disturbing, particularly with regard to the proposed involvement of Whyte and Rizvi.
“As Ally McCoist has said, we need to ensure the club has been cleansed of unwanted influences.
“The identities of the beneficial
shareholders – in some cases hidden behind lawyers offices or holding companies around the world – have been disclosed to the SFA and we see no reason why Stewart Regan knows who owns parts of Rangers yet the fans who fund the club are kept in the dark.”
“waitinfurrapolis waitinfurrapolis@corsica1968 @JohnMcLean_HS67 @BartinhoBaroldo @stevendoyle75 @CharlotteFakes
Summit held in 4/12 w/ reps from Scot/UK govt, SFA, HMRC, SPL, plod; why?”
———
Hadn’t heard of that one Exiled. I wonder who organised said summit? Maybe someone took all the talk of ‘Armageddon’ the wrong way? Perhaps that Ted Smith was involved?
I noticed Jane Lewis was getting some stick on twitter too. Her defence for the non-mention of CF also seems to be the source of the material, which I suppose they must imagine is from hacking of some kind. Although all the media crowd seem to say is, ‘We won’t tell you, and we won’t tell you why we won’t tell you because we know where it came from, and we’re not saying.’
On the lighter side, the opening words of that grand meeting may have been: “Summit’s up doon Govan.” 🙂
I’ll get ma simmit.
Exiled Celt says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:06 am
———————————–
EC, I love the “independent forensic inquiry has been conducted…inside Ibrox” quote – who the hell is independent inside Ibrox?
That’s a phrase worthy of Hugh Keevins
Exiled Celt says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:06 am
3 0 Rate This
———-
Amazing. Took some time for them to catch up. But you get a wee bit suspicious about timing. Cue Stockbridge exit stage left?
24. Exiled Celt says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:06 am
An Ibrox spokesman said last night: “An independent forensic inquiry has been conducted inside Ibrox and the club and management have been cleared to carry on with their business.”
——————————————————————————————————————————–
The spokesman wouldn’t be JT by any chance? Did he tell the truth at the forensic enquiry? The MSM have known this story and its murky background for months and months so what did JT divulge to Pinsett Mason?
Regardless of the motives,it is significant that DR legal advice has permitted coverage of the tape.a precedent has now been set and it will be interesting to see whether the floodgates will now open.
“The Record has listened to two hours of recordings that have been leaked on to the internet, where they are openly available to be heard.”
That’s a pretty obvious way around any legal problems regarding the source of the stuff. Any newspaper could have taken that line with any of Charlotte’s stuff from day one in my opinion. So why the weeks of total silence from the MSM? All the stuff is in the public domain- so what was the problem?
From the Daily Rectum article:
“Green has subsequently insisted he was stringing Whyte along so he could get his shares — a plan he
says changed when the club were liquidated and Whyte’s shares
were no longer needed.”
The CLUB were liquidated?
Really?
Here I was thinking it was com……………..oh, never mind………..
Alex Thomson is still working through the problem of release with regard to the story.
The question coming to mind would be ‘If the DR can publish why can’t Channel 4?’
The answer is very probably,for a local newspaper to go with the story is one thing,but for a UK wide network with an award winning reputation is another.
We shall see.
So the Daily Record have broken ranks and actually published some of the CF material. Not only that, they’ve deviated from the usual line of the company being liquidated and saying, as we’ve known all along, that it was the club.
Interesting!
Exiled Celt says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:06 am
Record online version changed?
Is this story in the print version of the Record this morning? I’m abroad, by the way, not just too lazy to walk to the shops!
Matteo Galy says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:24 am
1 0 Rate This
So the Daily Record have broken ranks and actually published some of the CF material. Not only that, they’ve deviated from the usual line of the company being liquidated and saying, as we’ve known all along, that it was the club.
Interesting!
———
They obviously needed a headline after being taunted by The Sun about inaccurate reporting (of CO renummeration). How humiliating is for your tabloid when The Sun takes the high moral ground against you as a champion of factual accuracy!
PS Althetim The Daily Rectum cleansing the enemas of Rangers?
(I’ll get ma Syrup of Figs)
Sam says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:15 am
5 0 Rate This
Rangers administrators named ‘UK Corporate Restructuring Advisor of the Year’
By Scott McCulloch
Jun 27 2012
Finance magazine ACQ has named Rangers’ administrators Duff & Phelps UK Corporate Restructuring Advisor of the Year.
ACQ Finance Magazine Global Awards 2012 said the award “recognises Duff & Phelps as the UK’s leading Corporate Restructuring Advisor”.
Duff & Phelps was also named the Turnaround and Restructuring Advisory Firm of the Year UK and Debt Advisory Firm of the Year UK for the second year running at last night’s ACQ Global Awards.
“It is a real achievement for us to be recognised, not only locally, but also on a global scale by our peers, and one in which our entire team can take great pride”.
Clark was a co-founder of Manchester head quartered insolvency firm MCR until it was bought out by Duff & Phelps last October.
Craig Whyte’s takeover of Rangers is also now the subject of a criminal investigation, and Duff & Phelps senior partner David Grier was an advisor to Whyte before, during and after the deal was concluded.
Grier has denied the allegation, and has stated he only knew of Ticketus’ relationship with Rangers in their previous involvement with the club under the ownership of Murray.
——————————————————————————————-
Satire dies yet again?……………….or do the sharks of capitalism rejoice at the robbing of creditors, shareholders and most especially the evil hector?
The DR breaking ranks strikes me that they’ve made a judgement that it’s maybe better to do something now to try to stop falling sales rather then bet that everyone tainted by the conspiracies keeps quiet indefinitely. Money talks louder than a code of silence! (No honour amongst thieves and all that).
Will they all try to show themselves in the best possible light now? Outing the “bad guys” to the Bears might keep their circulation up. Unfortunately all there is in the big hoose are the bad guys, and if by taking the high ground now means a few lowly sports reporters get fed to the wolves as scapegoats then so be it.
We here are now getting used to the type of stuff the DR quoted. not so sure the wider population will handle this well. It also leaves the financial authorities with fewer places to hide. As for the SFA though, no amount of public scandal will rock the boat. Its still down to those pesky fans to pressure their own clubs.
it could start to get very interesting again.
Ref DR piece this morning, phil mac tweeted about a stockbridge story earlier this week.
I reckon a deal has been done to use the CF stuff instead of this rumoured story in order to move stockbridge on, leaving ‘rangers men’ in charge without having to pay a penny.
Captain Haddock says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:14 am
“it could start to get very interesting again.”
———————
It will be interesting to see how this is spun. There is the possibility it will be played with a straight bat but it would be naive to assume this.
The story is so complex that TSFM is one of the few places that has a grip on most of the threads of the narrative. We just need to keep the conversation going and perhaps (washing my mouth out), comment on MSM content to highlight any factual innaccuracies.
Then, finally, as another poster begged yesterday, attention might be brought to bear on other aspects of Scottish Football.
All good things come to those that wait.
rantinrobin says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:11 am
Alex Thomson is still working through the problem of release with regard to the story.
The question coming to mind would be ‘If the DR can publish why can’t Channel 4?’
The answer is very probably,for a local newspaper to go with the story is one thing,but for a UK wide network with an award winning reputation is another. We shall see.
========================================================================
As I have said from the start there was absolutely nothing stopping the SMSM from using the CF material. Now the DR have used it. No doubt they’ve had a nod and a wink from Ibrox that they won’t be making a fuss because it looks as though the ‘Dignity’ faction has won the Board Room brawl and, if so, I reckon Stockbridge is going anyway so this story is to put the skids under him.
So it might be a one-off use of CF but all the rest of the SMSM now look stupid for not running anything so they might want to catch-up.
The story today about D&P and the email tracked back to America would be a belter of a tale especially with the award that has just been won.
Btw you have to remember that the DR isn’t just a local paper but part of the Mirror Group so it’s a bit further up the pecking order. This is a serious story with a serious ‘warning’ from the lawyers and I think permission for the go-ahead would have come from London and not Glasgow.
I wonder what has made the DR break ranks and print this damning report. Could it be that they are now satisfied that it can be considered as being under a ‘previous regime’ and so not all that damaging to TRFC? Do they know that Stockbridge is on his way out, or wanted out by the ‘real’ Rangers men? Are they, in some way, helping TRFC? Or is it a case that we, and all internet bampots, have scored another goal, and the DR’s circulation needs a boost? Or is it just that Media House, who may have more power at the DR than we are aware of, have been kicked out of Ibrox? It could be one, or all, of these possibilities, or something completely different, but one thing’s for sure, it’s got nothing to do with a change of attitude and a desire to do proper, forensic, reporting, and will probably be the one and only effort at real journalism we see for a while from that rag, though I hope I’m wrong.
A signal (white smoke ;-)) has been sent from the Big Hoos. It would appear the direction in which to steer the Loyal has been given.
It had to happen that someone would break ranks and post CF content.
The 64 million dollar question is – now that the genie has been let out of the bottle, is the stranglehold on the media so all encompassing that it Jack can control the flow,
Popcorn for a wee while with a jelly and ice cream order a possibility in the medium term.
It was interesting to see Mark Dingwall’s quote in the DR saying the SFA were given the identity of the beneficial shareholders. I’m not sure that is the case and I tried to find out a year ago what they were told. I was convinced all they got was the lawyers or administrators of the various overseas trusts and investment vehicles.
Green made a great play on STV I think it was of saying that the full info had been provided and that might be what Dingwall is referring to but it was classic Green. You think you know what he’s saying but the more times you listen the more that you realise he isn’t actually saying what you think he is.
He was a master at the double-speak – still the SFA one would think should be able to give the shareholders a clean bill of health because they should know who they are – shouldn’t they?
The one that has always interested me is Blue Pitch Holdings and
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:34 am
‘Btw you have to remember that the DR isn’t just a local paper but part of the Mirror Group so it’s a bit further up the pecking order. This is a serious story with a serious ‘warning’ from the lawyers and I think permission for the go-ahead would have come from London and not Glasgow.’
__________________________________________________
I wonder if rather than ‘permission’ it might have been an order!
Maybe Stuart Cosgrove could now pass comment on the CF content released thus far?
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:44 am
It was interesting to see Mark Dingwall’s quote in the DR saying the SFA were given the identity of the beneficial shareholders. I’m not sure that is the case and I tried to find out a year ago what they were told. I was convinced all they got was the lawyers or administrators of the various overseas trusts and investment vehicles.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree. The shadowy individuals who are the real shareholders haven’t gone to all the trouble and expense of setting up anonymous entities in BVI or Leichtenstein, just to have Green hand over their names and addresses to the SFA. My personal view has always been that Sir David Murray is lurking behind some of these offshore companies. No evidence, just a gut feeling. But whoever it is, I’m as sure as I can be that the SFA don’t have the real names.
Allyjambo says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:47 am
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ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:34 am
‘Btw you have to remember that the DR isn’t just a local paper but part of the Mirror Group so it’s a bit further up the pecking order. This is a serious story with a serious ‘warning’ from the lawyers and I think permission for the go-ahead would have come from London and not Glasgow.’
__________________________________________________
I wonder if rather than ‘permission’ it might have been an order!
———————————————————————————-
No the decision to run would have been made in Glasgow but it would have been run past London because of the CF issue.
London historically wants no part in the Rangers/Celtic issue – they just don’t want to know and I can’t think of anything that that would have interested them enough to get involved and twist Glasgow’s arm.
Has anyone seen the ‘Eye’ this week as if there’s anything in there that might have caught attention in London.
twopanda says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:35 am
Exiled Celt says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:06 am
Record online version changed?
++++++
No – the reason I did the later post was that at 7:59 I only put the link – then thought maybe folks don’t want to give hits to the DR site so would post the contents as well – if you see the time of the article (26 Jun 2013 06:53) it is still same. Apologies if I confused anyone
I’m starting to think that todays CF appearance in the DR is maybe a primer for bigger revelations later this or next week. Stockbridge is going.
However, the dam on CF stuff in general is holding strong and I expect that to continue, this is stage-managed to the hilt. It will make denial of the rest of the material harder for the bears, although by no means impossible.
neepheid says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:59 am
———————————————
On another issue I wondered if you had noticed the post I did about the SFL granting a ‘conditional membership’ to Rangers before the SFA granted their’s? I’m not wanting to re-open the debate but I thought it would interest you. I would assume that both of us would probably still have the same stance with regard to the SFL’s decision as we did with the SFA one as to whether they could create a ‘conditional’ membership or not within their respective rule books.
There are a helluva lot of unknown shareholders of RIFC Plc and a lot are offshore. I wonder what they are thinking now that Green and Ahmad have gone and IMO Stockbridge is tetering on the edge given the DR artticle.
And then there’s Mather – is the cross being prepared for him the fact that McCoist is hiring players like there’s no tomorrow and Mather is on public record as saying he’ll back Ally all the way financially to get the players he wants. There’s a lot of rumbling on Rangers fan sites about the money being spent on these players which a lot of Bears think is OTT for the division.
ForresDee says:
June 26, 2013 at 11:10 am
I’m starting to think that todays CF appearance in the DR is maybe a primer for bigger revelations later this or next week. Stockbridge is going.
However, the dam on CF stuff in general is holding strong and I expect that to continue, this is stage-managed to the hilt. It will make denial of the rest of the material harder for the bears, although by no means impossible.
==========================================================================
Well a couple of posters have been pointing to the AIM accounts which are ‘overdue’ and as Stockbridge is FD then he is responsible for them. I think the shocker that could be in those accounts is just how much of the flotation capital has been eaten up in day-to-day running exes.
Again just speculating they would be worried if that figure is much south of £10 million because I reckon that Bears might start to ponder about buying STs and only buy on a week to week basis. So it would suit to delay the accounts if there is bad news in them and try and punt as many STs as possible,
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 11:16 am
It’s all building up into a perfect storm.
Although, more likely, like everything else it’ll be contained in a tea cup!
Althetim says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:00 am
From the Daily Rectum article:
“Green has subsequently insisted he was stringing Whyte along so he could get his shares — a plan he
says changed when the club were liquidated and Whyte’s shares
were no longer needed.”
The CLUB were liquidated?
Really?
Here I was thinking it was com……………..oh, never mind………..
…………………….
To be fair JAMES TRAYNOR the PR man at THE rangers fc Limited….stated clearly and with certainty that the club created in 1872 had ceased to exist when the CVA was rejected and that the 140 of History had gone..as the club had now been liquidated…
paulmac2 says:
June 26, 2013 at 11:52 am
Traynor wasn’t the only one who stated that liquidation meant the end of the club, every media outlet was saying the same thing, as were those inside Ibrox.
It was only when it actually came to pass that the holding company myth was invented, by Green to sell season tickets for his new club and the media ran with it to sell papers.
Seems AT is not carried away by the CF stuff in the Daily Ranger, not a game changer he says.
czm @czm3 16h
@MTHForum @BartinhoBaroldo @JaneLewisSport – @alextomo tweet (yesterday) suggests he is still trying to find a way through to tell story
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alex thomson @alextomo 15h
@czm3 he is
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czm @czm3 1h
@alextomo @MTHForum @BartinhoBaroldo I understand Daily Record published story using @CharlotteFakes material today – is this game changer?
Expand
alex thomson @alextomo 1h
@czm3 @MTHForum @BartinhoBaroldo @CharlotteFakes No – it’s a DR story apparently bsed on CF tapes with lawyers’ pawprints all over it
Mark Dingwall, of the Rangers Supporters Trust, said last night: “……. The identities of the beneficial shareholders – in some cases hidden behind lawyers offices or holding companies around the world – have been disclosed to the SFA and we see no reason why Stewart Regan knows who owns parts of Rangers yet the fans who fund the club are kept in the dark.”
——————————————————————-
Perhaps Dingwall is being clever here. Instead of stating his confidence in the SFA is he making a veiled threat against Regan & Co? If the SFA merely have the particulars of the trusts and investment companies and have done nothing to demand the details of the actual shareholders themselves, then The Rangers fans will hold it responsible should there be impending skulduggery over the shares. Similarly, if the SFA know the identities of the beneficial persons behind these trusts, and any of them are deemed to be undesirable, then all hell will break loose with the Follow Follow faction should they be exposed.
DR and CF
Q. So what ?
A. It’s a nothing story. T’Rangers are no longer a real target. Their reputation is ruined beyond recovery. They are a cheap, cheating, lying, delusional, grubby little club with a joke of a team, a joke of a manager and a joke of a Board. What else is to take down.
The real stories are in the pipeline and won’t be rushed, viz. ownership of Ibrox, MP and the car park; the UTT; that other grubby outfit, the SFA; and when will T’Gers run out of money again and begin another cycle of cheating, theft and collusion with the SFA – if they haven’t started already.
Then again, maybe I’ve missed something.
But, no worries, the best football website by far anywhere, TSFM, will fill in any spaces!
Althetim quoted a quote aroundabouts June 26, 2013 at 9:00 am
From the Daily Rectum article:
“Green has subsequently insisted he was stringing Whyte along so he could get his shares — a plan he
says changed when the club were liquidated and Whyte’s shares were no longer needed.”
—————————————————————————————————————————
Let’s just blow that Charles Green claim to smithereens. Craig Whyte was always a key player in this game. His shares were absolutely vital to the end game. As part of the deal, Craig permitted Imran to vote by proxy on his behalf with matters relating to the Rangers name change to RFC 2012 plc.
Without that smokescreen, it may have been impossible to carry on with the ‘Rangers’ brand and the current reincarnations would most certainly not have been permitted to share a similar name to the organisation in administration.
It stank then, it still does.
Like in 4 minutes !!
A couple of things –
I don’t believe that the DR acknowledging the CF tapes is the start of any unstoppable torrent of stories. It’s simply a small leak, designed to serve a purpose, and that purpose, as has been pointed out by previous posters, is to hasten the exit of Stockbridge. Certainly, don’t expect anything that would in any way implicate ‘real Rangers men’ in any wrong doing – not that CF’s material does that anyway. There’s nothing you can hang your hat on, just a series of emails etc. that , whilst making those involved look pathetic, doesn’t actually constitute anything particulary concrete.
BTW going back to the ” 17,000 season tickets sold ” story from a couple of days ago – I wouldn’t read too much into this, as I suspect it yet another outing of the oldest trick in the book. Does this sound familiar?:
MSM headline : ” Rangers have only taken in 2.5 million in share issue says TRFC spokesman!!! ”
MSM headline next day : ” Rangers smash expectations and take in 5 million in share issue”
TRFC fan : “Ha! You said it would only be 2.5 million. GIRUY Timmy! ”
Timmy (or indeed any non TRFC fan, because we’re all Timmy’s, apparently) : ” Er.. YOUR mob said it would be 2.5 million. I didn’t express an opinion one way or the other. By the way, I thought it was 10 million that was the target?”
I fully expect it to be announced that 30,000+ tickets have been sold (notice, not the 40000+ supposedly on sale), and that Timmy once again deserves to get it right up him for claiming it was only 17,000……
manandboy says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:10 pm
Yes, and remember, he who provides the smoke (by proxy no less) is rarely the one who actually wants to be screened!
Allyjambo says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:41 am
23 0 Rate This
I wonder what has made the DR break ranks and print this damning report. Could it be that they are now satisfied that it can be considered as being under a ‘previous regime’ and so not all that damaging to TRFC? Do they know that Stockbridge is on his way out, or wanted out by the ‘real’ Rangers men? Are they, in some way, helping TRFC? Or is it a case that we, and all internet bampots, have scored another goal, and the DR’s circulation needs a boost? Or is it just that Media House, who may have more power at the DR than we are aware of, have been kicked out of Ibrox? It could be one, or all, of these possibilities, or something completely different, but one thing’s for sure, it’s got nothing to do with a change of attitude and a desire to do proper, forensic, reporting, and will probably be the one and only effort at real journalism we see for a while from that rag, though I hope I’m wrong.
————————————————————————————————————————————-
I have reservations on the reason why the DR for printed this (canny get rid of old paranoid mind ) Great that something has come out at last concerning CT. The record is steeped in blue dye so all might not be as black and whyte as we see it. Time will tell, but surely now it is an open gate and real journalist will step in and run with this.
Good be happy days, but trust the DR……………………….??
And you all doubted Sir Charles of the Green
Rangers FC Official@RFC_Official
KIT LAUNCH: #Rangers will officially launch the new @PUMA home, away and third kits – sponsored by @blackthorncider tomorrow.
Summer signings Cammy Bell, @LawNicky7, Jon Daly, @nickyclark91, @Steven26Smith and Richard Foster will launch the kits.
KIT LAUNCH: There’ll be a press launch at lunchtime tomorrow, but you’ll be able to see the kits on our official channels first. Stay tuned!
4. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Blimey! Maybe he right about the other stuff, too……
I appear to be typing in pidgin english at the moment.
I’ve just emailed the ‘Herald’ to ask if, now that it seems to be legally safe to mention Charlotte’s tapes and documents, they will carry out a wee journalistic investigation into the many allegations made about just about everything from the sale to CW, the dodgy Administration, the sale to CG, the contortions of the Footballing Authorities, the non-progress by OSCR into possible mis-use of Charity status……….
Not holding my breath for a reply.
And now, completely off topic, I was rocked on my heels when I was reminded that there is still a Crown appointed Governor-General in Australia, whose OK will be needed if Mr Rudd is become Prime Minister, the baby-jumper knitting lady having been dumped.
And I thought Australians had come out of the middle ages long ago.
A gentle reminder that the target is Campbell Ogilvie and the SFA!!………..The smoke, mirrors and assorted shenanigans of the spivs in and around the dead club are for entertainment value only.
Until we get a root and branch clear out at Hampden the game is rotten to the core. I am so disappointed that my club is obviously in cahoots with this parcel of rogue’s 🙁
The one and only reason the DR is printing this article is to support one (favoured) faction within Ibrox.
They have no interest in righting the wrongs of rule breaking and bending, of exposing the corruption in Scottish Football which allows Sevco to exist and get preferential treatment.
They only wish to curry favour with their pals inside, so they can remain on the succulent lamb list.
Tommy says:
June 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Mark Dingwall, of the Rangers Supporters Trust, said last night: “……. The identities of the beneficial shareholders – in some cases hidden behind lawyers offices or holding companies around the world – have been disclosed to the SFA and we see no reason why Stewart Regan knows who owns parts of Rangers yet the fans who fund the club are kept in the dark.”
——————————————————————-
Perhaps Dingwall is being clever here. Instead of stating his confidence in the SFA is he making a veiled threat against Regan & Co? If the SFA merely have the particulars of the trusts and investment companies and have done nothing to demand the details of the actual shareholders themselves, then The Rangers fans will hold it responsible should there be impending skulduggery over the shares. Similarly, if the SFA know the identities of the beneficial persons behind these trusts, and any of them are deemed to be undesirable, then all hell will break loose with the Follow Follow faction should they be exposed.
===============================================================================
Dingwall comes in for heavy stick from the Rangers Media site most of the time but IMO he is one of the few prominent supporters/bloggers that seems to have a grasp of ‘politics’ and I don’t mean of the party political variety although he has that as well and not to my taste I would add.
No matter what I think of any group of Rangers fans I always remember that in the Murray era the only ones that repeatedly took Murray on over the reckless overspending was Follow Follow and they were shouted down at agms by fellow fans when they tried to get their point across and their warnings about where it was all going to end-up were laughed at.
They also as a group single-handedly destroyed the attempt by another group of Rangers supporters to form a link with the BNP.
So there are lots of things I totally disagree with Follow Follow on but I recognise when they have done the right thing and in particular when they took the BNP on over their anti-Black and anti-Jewish bile and made sure that they weren’t allowed a toehold at Ibrox.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Hmm, good news (for the bears) following bad (for the bears). While the strip launch won’t take our eyes off the ball, it will certainly draw the majority of TRFC’s supporters’ attention away from the more important, and damaging, news. Neat timing, has JT still got friends at the DR who can tip him the wink to delay an announcement of ‘good news’ to take the edge off a forthcoming bad news story… I wonder 😉
Just on the share issue, as someone mentioned it above.
Another bit of revisionism if I remember correctly. They were aiming for something like £27m and got less than that.
£17m to “institutional investors” and £10m “set aside” for fans to buy into.
Fans only bought £5m, so that’s a total of £22m … £5m short of the target or around 23%
Hardly a success if you fail to meet your target. Unless of course you are in Scotland reporting on rangers, where every defeat is a victory. Whether it’s at a tribunal, a commission or on the stock exchange.
These people really do have no shame.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-reveal-share-issue-has-raised-1496315
Chief executive Charles Green previously stated he had secured £17million in pledges from institutional investors and had set aside £10million for fans to buy a stake.
A statement tonight read: “A total of £22.2 million has been raised from professional and institutional investors and supporters which will be used to take the club forward, strengthen the squad when appropriate and improve facilities.”
… but later …
“This process has generated over £22million, which has exceeded the figure of £20million that we set out to raise when we announced our intention to float the company on 11th October 2012”
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Mark (Grandmaster Suck) Dingwalls problem with Sir David Murray was because they were banned from the stadium for being too sectarian and bigoted even for Ranger’s.
So let’s not be portraying him as some fighter for decency.
You might think so, I think he is no more than a bigot and a bully, who runs a website which allows some truly hideous activity.
@ecoboy
I really had to laugh at this bit from you
“I recognise when they have done the right thing and in particular when they took the BNP on over their anti-Black and anti-Jewish bile and made sure that they weren’t allowed a toehold at Ibrox.”
Read his website about the tarrier, pape, rattlers etc. is that OK in your book.
echo, Dingwall is a neo-facist, any efforts to address racist attitudes at Ibrox would have been an exercise in sugar coating to allow those obnoxious politics to fester.
19. Drew Peacock says:
June 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm
5 43 i
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slimshady61 says:
June 25, 2013 at 5:18 pm
Drew Peacock says:
June 25, 2013 at 1:18 pm
————————————-
The point which you conveniently miss, Drew, is that the comment from Lawwell was in response to a mischevious question asked of him.
Lawwell didn’t volunteer it but someone – Darrell King if I recall correctly (whatever happened to him?) – wanted to draw him out on Jelavic and whether Celtic had had any “offers” that could match that unbelieveable, Gordon Smith-inspired/Jim White-publicised phantom, non-existent bid.
Same old same old, except Lawwell gave him an immediate, off the cuff answer. Had he had time to consider it, Lawwell probably wouldn’t have been so ridiculing but with spontaneity human nature often leads us to say something we might otherwise have tempered.
“Motherwell-born billionaire” anyone?
Anyway Lawwell achieved his objective because since that day we’ve heard no more about those off-the-radar bids for Rangers’ players and I doubt if we will ever again, at least in my lifetime.
£54 Million (bid) to 0 (transfer activity)
____________________________________________________
I don’t know what you are saying about me “conveniently” forgetting Dawells question but as you agree Lawell didn’t handle it well and why his objective was to silence the press on future ridiculous and made up bids for Rangers players is something I don’t understand. Why should he care?
——————————————————————————————-
I thought Peter Lawwell handled it excellently. He made no direct reference to Rangers and if Rangers were made to look foolish by what he said it was purely because the initial statement from Rangers FC was so preposterous and frankly amateurish.
I find it interesting that the reaction here is to criticise Peter Lawwell for basically expressing the sentiments of all non RFC fans in a fairly inocuous inoffensive way, rather than:
1) The disgracegul excuse of a journalist who blatnatly tried to trip him up to obtain some anti-Celtic headline either via an unfavourable comparison to Rangers (fictional) transfer dealings or for criticism of commenting on the business of Rangers – even when directly asked about Rangers business! (mission accomplished), with the sole intention of deflecting from Rangers’ parlous situation
2) The Comical Ali style attempt by Gordon Smith & Co to blatantly mislead Rangers fans and everyone else as to the true situation at the club
No, much better to have a go at the only guy who commented honestly about the whole farce.
Better to let ridiculous lies go unchallenged as fact in the mainstream media. Is this not the path to we’ve travelled to the current disaster area that is Scottish football?
By the way, he should care because it’s been a constant feature of Celtic press conferences since RFC’s money troubles were brought into the public domain. Ask Neil Lennon whether he will miss Rangers – HEADLINE “LENNNY: WE WON’T MISS GERS” – TRFC fans get riled up by Neil Lennon apparently spontaneously commenting on their situation. We don’t have to ponder too long as to the dire repercussions which could result…. Ask Charlie Mulgrew if he misses OF games… HEADLINE “MULGREW: GET GERS BACK IN SPL”.
If Peter Lawwell clams up when faced with this kind of hostility is he then slaughtered as being crabbit, unco-operative, smart @rse , like Gordon Strachan, Martin O’Neill, Neil Lennon etc etc
I prefer to ask why the media behave in such a transparently biased manner rather than criticise representatives of Celtic FC for giving honest responses. Maybe you’re happy with the way the media currently behaves I don’t know.
Celtic Paranoia says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm
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I agree with your comments on the media. It was a very stupid and loaded question with an agenda attached.
What I was asking was that if the Rangers were making such an arse of themselves (as they were) all by themselves why should Lawell care or feel the need to add further ridicule? My point is that this kind of stuff coming from either side is showbiz not football. I prefer matters to be decided on the pitch and to stop feeding the clowns in the media circus.
This is my last word on this issue because it’s not that important to the blog and for the record I think Mr Lawell is doing a grand job at Celtic.
Forgot to say – I sent the CF Duff & Phelps stuff to the Editor of Accountancy Age to see what they made of it.
I’m not holding my breath.
Gaz says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:48 pm
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Sadly there are sad nutters in both the Rangers and Celtic camps that I despair of as human beings. I don’t think there is a single thing factually wrong in what I said. If there is then please let me know but in the meantime please don’t attempt to put words in my mouth.
I think from memory the Follow Follow questioning of the Rangers accounts started before there was a serious fall-out with the club hierarchy. The reason for that fall-out was because Follow Follow started an internet fan site and the Ibrox blazers told them they had no right to the name as it ‘belonged’ to the club.
The Follow Follow name had been used for some time previously for a rabid fanzine run by Dingwall and it may still be although I haven’t read the fanzine in question for a long number of years so I have no idea of its current content or whether it is still published.
As to the Follow Follow name things got very heated and may even have resulted in legal action or exchanges of lawyers’ letters but at the end of the day Follow Follow wouldn’t budge and challenged Rangers to take action.
They didn’t but reacted, if my memory serves me correctly, with the usual smear and banning tactics which we all know is their trademark.
You may not like that even with a group or people that I intensely disagree with, on most things, that I am able to recognise and comment when I think they get it right.
If there is only a continuing 100% inability to reinforce any positive messages and instead just concentrate solely on the negative ones then there would never be any reconciliation. I used to 100% believe that there would never be peace in my lifetime in Northern Ireland as I was 100% convinced there could never be a political settlement acceptable to both sides.
Happily I was proven totally wrong and while there is still a long way to go at least the process has started. I have no wish to stray into politics as it is rightly outwith the remit of the blog. When it comes to defending principles I hold dear I have never been anywhere except in the front line but I strive to retain an open mind to make progress through negotiations, where possible, and not conflict which tends to only further entrench already fixed positions.
Drew Peacock says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Forgot to say – I sent the CF Duff & Phelps stuff to the Editor of Accountancy Age to see what they made of it. I’m not holding my breath.
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It’s funny the thought had crossed my mind to see if there was a competitor mag to the one that made the award as they might be interested in the story to dish the opposition.
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:33 pm
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Drew Peacock says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Forgot to say – I sent the CF Duff & Phelps stuff to the Editor of Accountancy Age to see what they made of it. I’m not holding my breath.
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It’s funny the thought had crossed my mind to see if there was a competitor mag to the one that made the award as they might be interested in the story to dish the opposition.
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Indeed. Isn’t competition a marvelous thing?
arabest1 says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:00 pm
echo, Dingwall is a neo-facist, any efforts to address racist attitudes at Ibrox would have been an exercise in sugar coating to allow those obnoxious politics to fester.
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If that is your opinion you are entitled to make it. However, if you read my post you will find that I only mentioned Dingwall by name in the first paragraph and that was in a response to Tommy says:
June 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm and my reply was relevant IMO to Tommy’s post.
I went on to mention the Rangers accounts and the BNP issue and did not mention Mark Dingwall’s name in relation to them but un-named members of Follow Follow.
Fair comment Echo………..but so is mine! 😉
arabest1 says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:50 pm
Fair comment Echo………..but so is mine! 😉
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Well I think what I actually said about Dingwall accurate and in context as a response to Tommy’s earlier post and I have undernoted what I actually said about Dingwall and am amazed that some seem to take it as some kind of endorsement of him and his politics when I clearly state the opposite.
On the Rangers finances and BNP issues I know the actual facts on the issues – obviously I have no idea if you do but really we are talking at cross purposes in a sense because I did not mention Dingwall in relation to these. But as I have said you are entitled to make your comment.
UNDERNOTE
Dingwall comes in for heavy stick from the Rangers Media site most of the time but IMO he is one of the few prominent supporters/bloggers that seems to have a grasp of ‘politics’ and I don’t mean of the party political variety although he has that as well and not to my taste I would add.