Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 3:06 pm
neepheid says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:25 pm
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:29 pm
———————————
Is whoever he named to SFA just a cover?
I would say so because we don’t know who the actual investors are and I am convinced the SFA don’t know either. Some of the names Green gave from the original consortium are legit but we don’t know for sure if they are still there or have gone.
On Naqvi …. thats a direct link …. but rumoured that he ran from the deal when he discovered who else was involved …. ! (Rizvi?) :
I believe it was a Scottish businessman of the Blue Brigade who ran for the hills when he heard about Rizvi and that was before Green had raised the money needed to buy from D&P, I also believe that the Rizvi rumour was passed to the SFA. But Naqvi wouldn’t want any connection with Rizvi IMO and that might well have hardened his resolve to get out as originally agreed and not be tied-in a moment longer than necessary.
If link between (any) inst Inv and Rizvi can be confirmed than there is no way the lid can be kept closed.
I think Rizvi was well in before the Institutional Investors signed-up which was early December 2012. Rizvi was there even before Rangers was bought from D&P and the CF tapes show that. But if he has an involvement it will be well hidden. The problem is the offshore companies and trusts which make it nigh impossible to identify the money-men.
Sam says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm
1 0 i
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:44 pm
4 0 i
Whilst the journo’s approach is indeed vomit inducing sycophancy and suggests a totally uncritical editorial approach, there isn’t anything here particularly damning and have to say I find this one a bit of a damp squib.
Is that the best you have to offer CF??
manandboy says:
June 27, 2013 at 12:09 pm
I’m reminded that Stewart Regan promulgated this doctrine of the SFA on April 24 2012:-
“Rangers have been part of the fabric of Scottish football’s history and are integral to its future prosperity.”
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2550&newsCategoryID=36&newsID=9731
…
=============
Good reminder mab – but I still can’t find a similar quote from Regan anywhere in the MSM… 🙄
“Hearts have been part of the fabric of Scottish football’s history and are integral to its future prosperity.”
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 3:17 pm
——————————————————————————-
Sure CtH will be reading……..
Possibly next post about Investors could be advantageous.
ecobhoy
June 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm
———————————-
Says …
I think Rizvi was well in before the Institutional Investors signed-up which was early December 2012. Rizvi was there even before Rangers was bought from D&P and the CF tapes show that. But if he has an involvement it will be well hidden. The problem is the offshore companies and trusts which make it nigh impossible to identify the money-men.
—————————————————-
At the moment that’s it in a nutshell …..
Although IA says he recieved money from Rizvi …. there is no absolute evidence it was utilised !
As a reminder Blue Pitch Holding is 6.14% …. so not all adding up yet
Hargreave Hale appears to be the Octopus portal at 7.71% (but has other Inst Investor connections)
Any further input from CF to get that final nail hammered in would be well appreciated ……
In the meantime we would do well to keep this in our sights and high on the agenda …..
Going to look at all again later …. when/if i get time !
Tommy says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:59 pm
Palacio67 says:
June 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm
http://saynotothesameclub.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/letter-to-the-scottish-football-association/
A very well written piece, the author asks us all to get writing in support.
————————————————————————————————
That is a bloody good letter and between it and Phil Mac Giolla Bhain asking the SFA to cough on the UEFA licence (I think it was more an attempt to get them to prove they had nothing to apologise for than get an apology) then the pressure for change is continuing.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-legacy-issue-that-must-be-finally-dealt-with/
There is a book published this month by Edinburgh University Press called Bigotry Football and Scotland.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bigotry-Football-Scotland-Perspectives-Debates/dp/0748670378
Most of it is from an academic angle but a Celtic supporter (me) and a Rangers supporter were asked to provide a chapter each.
I am reminded by the current situation of the final point of a number I wrote last October with regard to the SFA.
To the SFA as governors I say
• Above all ‘Be Honest’, you have nothing fear
(but you maybe have to read the rest of the book to see why 🙂
Might be something, might be nothing. Reading through the Jelavic contract and he’s entitled to 15% of any transfer fee over 6m euro’s.
What’s the chances then of him being transferred to a club who’s manager is the brother of the agent given the contract to punt the said player for a sum which is slightly under the 6m euro mark?
Probably all innocent but with the shenanigans that they got up to I’d put nothing past them.
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 10m
SPL/SFL/SPFL meeting adjourned until 7pm.
==================================
Wonder if Ally’s sweating!
wrt players,one report this morning stated that Goian and Bocanegra were on their way out of Ibrox because the club would struggle to pay their wages.
if I was on 20k a week,I wouldn’t just walk away and I think it’d be foolish to suggest that these 2 are just going to walk out on a million a year contract.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 22m
For real? If so,will Gordon let all know that he accepted Craig Whytes offer to become CEO of Rangers on 15/03/2011 http://tinyurl.com/rfcCEO
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 1m
Not 100% sure what’s going on here with this email between Rafat, Charles and Craig. http://i.imgur.com/1Ls2NsJ.jpg
Auldheid says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:23 pm
I am reminded by the current situation of the final point of a number I wrote last October with regard to the SFA.
To the SFA as governors I say
• Above all ‘Be Honest’, you have nothing fear
+++++++++++++++++++++
A worthy sentiment, and maybe good advice 12 months ago. However the events of the last 12 months, the extent of the rule bending, special treatment and general dishonesty on the part of the “authorities”, mean that those involved actually have a great deal to fear if the truth ever comes out. So of course they are determined to ensure that the truth never comes out. They have a problem, though- too many people know where the bodies are buried.
neepheid says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm
One of the fascinating aspects of this whole affair is the abolute avoidance of self inspection by the SFA and had that been a feature at all they would have had nothing at all to fear.
However apart from the removal of key personnel who will no doubt be suitably recompensed by conditions of service or get a job at UEFA, those left behind will have nothing to fear from one of the consequences of being honest, which is to turn the SFA into an organisation that is fit for purpose, delivering a service to football that they will enjoy being part of.
But you will need to read the earlier points for full context. 😉
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
ecobhoy
June 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm
———————————-
Says …
I think Rizvi was well in before the Institutional Investors signed-up which was early December 2012. Rizvi was there even before Rangers was bought from D&P and the CF tapes show that. But if he has an involvement it will be well hidden. The problem is the offshore companies and trusts which make it nigh impossible to identify the money-men.
—————————————————-
At the moment that’s it in a nutshell …..
Although IA says he recieved money from Rizvi …. there is no absolute evidence it was utilised !
As a reminder Blue Pitch Holding is 6.14% …. so not all adding up yet
Hargreave Hale appears to be the Octopus portal at 7.71% (but has other Inst Investor connections)
Any further input from CF to get that final nail hammered in would be well appreciated ……
In the meantime we would do well to keep this in our sights and high on the agenda …..
Going to look at all again later …. when/if i get time !
———————————————————————————————————————
Newtz;
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 13m
Not 100% sure what’s going on here with this email between Rafat, Charles and Craig. http://i.imgur.com/1Ls2NsJ.jpg
—————————————————————————————————————-
ASIA CREDIT CORPORATION LIMITED
Company Number
2360951
Status
Registered
Incorporation Date
11 November 2009 (over 3 years ago)
Company Type
NZ Limited Company
Jurisdiction
New Zealand
Registered Address
Level 27, Pwc Building, Cnr Quay & Albert Streets, Auckland
NZ
Previous Names
ASIA CREDIT CORP LIMITED (2009-11-19)
Directors/ Officers
Christopher Andrew MORGAN, director, 31 Jan 2011
neepheid says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm
Auldheid says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:23 pm
…
To the SFA as governors I say
• Above all ‘Be Honest’, you have nothing fear
+++++++++++++++++++++
A worthy sentiment, and maybe good advice 12 months ago…
They have a problem, though- too many people know where the bodies are buried.
=========================
That is one point that I still just don’t get: why has there not been a ‘whistleblower’ at Hampden ?
There must be plenty of rumours etc. floating amongst all of the staff there over the last 12 months in particular.
You would think that at least some staff might take the view that the SFA’s handling of TRFC has been – and will continue to be – detrimental to the good of the game, and that it has seriously – irreparably ? – damaged the image of the SFA itself.
Agreed that job-preservation would be high on the agenda for any staff there, but if you where not happy with the SFA’s management, you would be even more frustrated that the MSM had a virtual news blackout wrt Ogilvie and Regan. You could be nearing retirement, you could leak stuff online, a la Charlotte…
…or have I got it wrong again: do you have to be a TRFC season ticket holder to get a job at the SFA ? 😉
Nick Eardley @nickeardley 4m
John Sutton made redundant by Hearts http://scotsman.com/sport
anyone seen this,
By GERALD IMRAY
Published on 27/06/2013 00:00
GARY Player will oppose a claim of $1 million by his former caddie and business partner in South Africa for an unpaid loan, the lawyer representing the golf legend said yesterday.
Former Rangers director Dave King gained an interim court order that potentially allows him to sue 77-year-old Player for assets the nine-times major champion and Hall of Famer holds in South Africa, including shares in a stud farm in the rural town of Colesberg.
King claims he loaned Player the money in 1999. Player denies it was a loan, although his lawyer did not dispute that the transaction took place. Player and King are the shareholders in the stud farm in central South Africa.
“Mr Player denies from his perspective that the funds advanced ever constituted a loan,” Player’s attorney, Rael Gootkin, told The Associated Press.
Court papers suing Player for the $1 million had not yet been filed, Gootkin said, and the parties are looking to agree on a September court date to argue the matter.
Gootkin said Player would oppose the interim order granted this week in a high court in Grahamstown, in South Africa’s Eastern Cape province, initially giving King jurisdiction to attach the golfer’s local assets to any claim.
Player also would oppose any action to sue for the money “if and when the summons is issued,” Gootkin said.
King is a former director of Rangers, and has caddied for one-time close friend Player at the US Masters.
South African media reported on Tuesday that a document submitted to the court states that the money was given to Player 14 years ago to repay a debt to his sports management company, and Player agreed in return to allow King to travel with him to international sports events.
Scottish-born King has also been involved in a long- running dispute with South African tax authorities. Two years ago, he had his £10 million vineyard, which made wine endorsed by Player, seized by the taxman.
The move was part of an attempt by the South African Revenue Service to claw back an alleged £250m unpaid tax bill from King, who is based in Johannesburg.
King, originally from Castle-milk in Glasgow, arrived in South Africa in 1976 with only £10 in his pocket. But he turned the pittance into a £200m fortune as a high-powered financial consultant.
However, tax officials were puzzled when the tycoon claimed to be earning only £5,000 a year. In 2002, following a two-year probe, they hit him with a bill for back taxes – insisting he was the richest man in the country.
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 4m
#Hearts administrators set deadline of July 12th for interested parties to make their bids.
Just been brought to my attention that a donor to the site had not received acknowledgement of the donation immediately after payment.
When donating money to SFM, you should be taken to one of our hidden pages containing acknowledgement and thanks for the dosh.
It may have been an isolated incident, but if anyone who has donated has not been sent to that page, could you PM me to let me know?
Thanks again for all your assistance. To update, we have received just over £600 since the appeal started.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:16 pm
As discussed several days ago, Mr King might not have as much money left as some Rangers fans hope.
Dear Lorrain Herbison
I have just read through the chain of emails between you and Craig the spiv.
[Removed for disgusting and insulting language. Don’t post again if you can’t cut that out – TSFM]
orrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:16 pm
By GERALD IMRAY
Published on 27/06/2013 00:00
…
However, tax officials were puzzled when the tycoon claimed to be earning only £5,000 a year. In 2002, following a two-year probe, they hit him with a bill for back taxes – insisting he was the richest man in the country.
===========
There has to be a typo there shirley: claiming he earned equivalent of GBP 5K a year – and as recently as 2000 ?
It’s one thing being ‘tax efficient’, [cough, cough]…but that just seems like blatant, kicking the a*se out of it. 🙄
Gaz says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:16 pm
As discussed several days ago, Mr King might not have as much money left as some Rangers fans hope.
===============================
WRT Mr King,
Can someone clear this up for me,
“In a Court of Session action earlier this month, Mr King was successful in revoking the restraint order against him as an individual, although the court action remains in force in Scotland against Metlika.
A Crown Office spokesman said: “Following a request by the South African prosecuting authorities restraint was sought by the Crown in 2006 of assets of David King and Metlika Trading Limited, a company associated with David King. Part of the property held by Metlika included a shareholding in Rangers FC. The court granted a restraint order on 29th June 2006.
“The court recalled the restraint order in respect of King on Friday 9 November 2012. The restraint order in respect of Metlika remains in force.”
Does this mean that King could invest in TRFC as an individual but can’t as a business(Meltika)?.
Sam says:
June 27, 2013 at 3:05 pm
“Chan FooK Meng = Fook Meng Chan = Orlit = Nova = Tembusu = Allenby = RAR = CG = BS = IA = CM = yer fooked!”
——————
Nice to see ypu piecing together your thought process Sam. Some of your ‘tease’ posts were failing to have impact I felt as you did not add context but left readers to draw their own conclusions.
Now that yopu’ve made the link, can you translate it from newtz like macine code into natural language please.
repost for an excellent article, and i’d urge any real football “supporters” to send a letter to mr regan at the sfa
http://saynotothesameclub.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/letter-to-the-scottish-football-association/
Can’t see what Lorraine Herbison has done wrong in the alleged exchange between her an CW. She’s massaging the ego a bit to get him onside and as a consequence get a scoop for her radio prog. That doesn’t make her a stooge.
I think it’s an interesting insight into how news people pursue stories, but a pretty tenuous stretch to infer complicity here.
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 1:24 pm
—————————————————————————————————————
If you have a few hours………………………
Post number #42857, which was lifted from the same day:
http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/106910-rangers-newco-goes-to-division-3-transfer-ban-must-stand-etc/page__st__42850
Enjoy!
paulmac2 says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:35 pm
1 1 Rate This
Dear Lorrain Herbison
I have just read through the chain of emails between you and Craig the spiv.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Snyde Clyde sums it up nicely. Shockingly disgusting the levels you will all stoop to to aid one club.
Remember all the calls to SSB in the past outwith sevco fans and the main theme of pundits replies… paranoia……..green tinted glasses…………………..calm down………keep taken your medicine…………..
What have you all to say now? Just bin your show and hide in shame. Sorry you would not know what the word shame meant.
Ref: Charlotte Fakeovers post on Asia Credit Corporation
i.imgur.com/1Ls2NsJ.jpg
Asia Credit Corporation were on Green’s shareholder’s list for 400k’s worth of shares. But my reading of that email is that Asia Credit Corporation are the ultimate beneficiaries of the deposit mentioned. Surely they didn’t get both the money and the shares? And if they did, why? Is this the Orlit money plus a little extra?
tomtom says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm
————————————-
Might be nothing I think TT – Jelavic went for less than €6M so he got nothing and, guess what, his agent got nothing too. He’s one of the many creditors left high and dry by the Rangers.
The more interesting point is the spin that was put on the story in January 2012 that Jelavic had agitated for the move when in fact the contract with the agent to get Jelavic sold before the Jan 12 transfer window close was signed the previous October.
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Any further input from CF to get that final nail hammered in would be well appreciated ……
In the meantime we would do well to keep this in our sights and high on the agenda …..
Going to look at all again later …. when/if i get time !
===========================================================
Well it looks as though CF has answered your call with http://i.imgur.com/1Ls2NsJ.jpg
So Rizvi we now learn has been emailing Charles Green in May 2012 which confirms the explosive connection revealed in the taped conversation between CW, Ahmad and Stockbridge.
This is the man that the SFA have been assured had no connection with newco Rangers and was not an investor.
So why is he emailing Green telling him that £600K has been sent to Barclays Bank in London to be transferred to Union Banque Privee in Nassau, the commercial centre of the Bahamas, for the account of Asia Credit Corporation Ltd.
And the director of Asia Credit Corporation is no other than Morgan who has previous business links to Green in Singapore as has Rizvi.
So is this a commission pay-off for getting newco investors al la Orlit or is it towards a shareholding in the name of Asia Credit or an unidentofied client of the Corporation or is it a tranche of a bigger amount for a shareholding?
What tale lies behind this tangled web. It makes me think the SFA due diligence was either non-existent or failed miserably or, indeed, was reliant on the word of Green.
I find it interesting that Charlotte can find the inane Lorraine Herbison stuff really quickly. I trust that lays to rest the “struggling through 15,000 pages of documents” baloney she’s been harping on about for weeks. To my mind Charlotte has always been just spin to help CW get his dough.
Sure some of the stuff is interesting, sure it proves what most of us already knew, sure it embarrases a few of the actors in this farce.
Is any of it “nuclear”?
Naw.
Come on Charlotte, prove me wrong.
I should have added that this email coupled with the taped conversation I referred to will probably sound the death knell of Stockbridge at Ibrox.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:51 pm
I find it interesting that Charlotte can find the inane Lorraine Herbison stuff really quickly. I trust that lays to rest the “struggling through 15,000 pages of documents” baloney she’s been harping on about for weeks. To my mind Charlotte has always been just spin to help CW get his dough.
==========================================================================
I have always assumed the material is on a computer therefore a simple search say for ‘Herbison’ will find all docs it appears in.
And if the person who originally filed the material was organised and logical then say all media emails will be in one folder with each different media outlet in its own folder and then separate ones for each journo.
Some people do manage that kind of organisation which will never get beyond only an aspiration for me.
But despite such organisation I would necessarily ignore the difficulties of wading through all the material and seeing the links across different bits of it. Perhaps CF keeps an eye on various blogs and sees what’s being discussed and goes looking to see if she has anything. I think I might play it that way myself.
typo last par ‘would’ should read ‘wouldn’t’
Celtic Paranoia says:
June 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm
9 1 Rate This
Sam says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm
1 0 i
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:44 pm
4 0 i
Whilst the journo’s approach is indeed vomit inducing sycophancy and suggests a totally uncritical editorial approach, there isn’t anything here particularly damning and have to say I find this one a bit of a damp squib.
————
In the emails she is obviously desperate for a scoop for the station. So much so that she kisses up and even dismisses the BBC programme. But to express surprise and shock over this editorial attitude perhaps shows a slight disconnect from West Coast reality on the part of CF. On the other hand, why should a radio station be so ingratiating? It comes across as a bit Monica Lewinsky. Trouble is, dear CF, the only thing people disrespect more than a Lewinsky is a Linda Tripp.
So, is the real 5-Way available? Or direct evidence of a knight of the realm hawking his dead parrot for a phoenix? Or are the identities of the real investors behind the masks known?
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:49 pm
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Any further input from CF to get that final nail hammered in would be well appreciated ……
In the meantime we would do well to keep this in our sights and high on the agenda …..
Going to look at all again later …. when/if i get time !
===========================================================
Well it looks as though CF has answered your call with http://i.imgur.com/1Ls2NsJ.jpg
_____
May 3 – 2012
Bill Miller’s plan for Rangers is to move the assets – Ibrox, Murray Park, the Albion car park – to a newco, while leaving the original company under the control of the administrators to try to achieve a Company Voluntary Arrangement.
May 8
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17996474
Just what happened here – and why were the supporters so mobilised against ?
[Against someone trying to keep history] – Very odd
Might be nothing in it – but BMs plan did not suit the now known agenda for sure
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm
1 0 Rate This
I should have added that this email coupled with the taped conversation I referred to will probably sound the death knell of Stockbridge at Ibrox.
============================
Thank you ecobhoy. Penny dropped.
Charlotte is playing the fiddle for those in the Blue room, everything has been done to embarrass those around Walter and Malcolm Murray. Hurting those too eager to please CW.
Just my tuppence for today.
Just testing, sorry guys. 🙂
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:20 pm
Asia Credit Corporation were on Green’s shareholder’s list for 400k’s worth of shares. But my reading of that email is that Asia Credit Corporation are the ultimate beneficiaries of the deposit mentioned. Surely they didn’t get both the money and the shares? And if they did, why? Is this the Orlit money plus a little extra?
========================================================
Yea but were those 1p shares? And who are the shareholders in Asia Credit Corporation? But I think that money would go to the Asia Credit Corporation account in Nassau and from there into an unknown company or individual account.
And the big question is if it was Asia Credit Corporation’s money why didn’t it just send the £600K to its own account in Nassau – why send it through Barclays in London? And why was CW presumably copied-in on the email?
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:05 pm
This is my point. It was Charlotte that came out with the “15,000 pages” excuse for not posting stuff more logically. Of course the stuff is on a PC, of course its easily searchable. I posted previously, to a flurry of TDs from the Charlotte devotees on here (this should guarantee a few more), that anyone with a mind to expose what’s been going on at Ibrox would do as you describe. Search, sort, post.
Here’s another thought. if you were looking to put pressure on the spivs to cough up the cash, what better way than post embarrassing documents from a possible “hacked” source so it doesn’t gain widespread media attention but just enough to show you’re serious.
http://www.ubp.com/en/ubp/swiss-bank
Profile
Union Bancaire Privée, which was founded in 1969 by Edgar de Picciotto, specialises in private banking and asset management. UBP is a family-owned company, driven by an entrepreneurial vision, innovation and independence. With a Tier-1 ratio of 25.7%, it is one of the most strongly-capitalised private banks.
As an asset-management specialist, UBP is committed to providing innovative investment solutions suited to the new market environment, with the highest levels of service quality and transparency. The Bank strives for performance and the preservation of capital, and develops innovative, traditional and alternative product ranges for both private and institutional clients.
I note one of the banks directors is: Richard Katz; Director Quantum Endowment Fund; LCH Investments; and Asian Capital Holdings Fund.
Is there any connection with Asian Capital Holdings Fund and Asia Credit Corporation?
UBP Nassau
Introduction
Union Bancaire Privée, UBP SA (UBP) is a full-scale asset manager, committed to providing all its clients, both institutional and private, with innovative investment solutions and outstanding service, to help them realise their investment aims.
Sugar Daddy, [TSFM – Mind your manners when you post here please. Civility costs nothing at all, although it compulsory here.], earlier said:
I find it interesting that Charlotte can find the inane Lorraine Herbison stuff really quickly. I trust that lays to rest the “struggling through 15,000 pages of documents” baloney she’s been harping on about for weeks. To my mind Charlotte has always been just spin to help CW get his dough.
Sure some of the stuff is interesting, sure it proves what most of us already knew, sure it embarrases a few of the actors in this farce.
Is any of it “nuclear”?
Naw.
Come on Charlotte, prove me wrong.
—————————————————————————-
150,000 documents at least, not the 15k you refer to.
It’s painstaking work, and of course compounded by the fact that Craig Whyte is not the only person in this saga to have used an alias. SDM will know what I mean,
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:39 pm
I apologise Charlotte, a 150k it is. Finding the Herbison stuff so quickly must have been very lucky then.
So what can you find to dispel my doubts that you are a spin doctor?
I think some of it is excellent stuff, keep up the good work and do it at your own speed and under your control.
People taunting are more likely to be working for those involved than anyone else.
Personal safety, whilst still getting the material out is what really matters here.
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:29 pm
————————————–
I don’t think you’ve grasped the point, echoboy. (or maybe you have – perhaps your just leading the witnesses) The email is from Risvi to Green asking for the money to be put in to ACC’s account – not the other way round. If that cash was deposited as per request, ACC got money AND shares off Green.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:33 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:05 pm
Here’s another thought. if you were looking to put pressure on the spivs to cough up the cash, what better way than post embarrassing documents from a possible “hacked” source so it doesn’t gain widespread media attention but just enough to show you’re serious.
===================================================================
Hey I’m the TD King here so don’t think you’re taking my title 🙂
Seriously, I think originally CF stuff was jumbled and I think she has listened to complaints about that and I feel it is more structured and I think she is responding to current debating issues on the boards.
I have often posted on here that whether the CF material comes from an illegal source or not wouldn’t actually affect the SMSM ability to use it to write stories. Trust me there is widespread media interest in it as decent journos tune-in to see who next has been filleted by CF.
The stop order on publication is coming from above journo level and possibly even above editor level and I don’t mean there is any legal block on it. That to me is the biggest question about the whole affair and the most worrying because the Scottish Media has been effectively muzzled over nothing more than a game of football.
Can you imagine how little chance we would have of finding out about anything serious happening in the country. So to me CF exposing that reality is important. It’s a bit like the Snowden story now that the PR line has been sorted out by the US Government.
Haven’t you noticed how the story switched from the serious civil liberties issues to a hunt the squirrel in the shape of Snowden. That has become the story with different media outlets competing to be the one to find him – get their story – then get a follow-up when they betray him to the tender mercy of Guantanamo Bay.
You may be right about your take on the motives of CF but it’s hard to tell what they are and obviously we can’t be sure what the master plan is and therefore the material must be viewed carefully.
Say she was working for CW trying to extract hush money I think the time for that has possibly gone. Green and a few others have made a tidy wedge but not enough for CW to be able to get Ticketus off his back not unless property is sold off and possibly leased-back or a Sugar Daddy 🙂 arrives – but why would they want to pay-off CW?
As I posted earlier today if CF posted material that proved Rizvi was financially involved that could be dynamite in a number of ways. But what we get is an email that has me scratching my head. The killer email could still be there and perhaps CF is teasing us but equally she may be protecting her principal or herself. I don’t think we know.
@eco @Sam @Torres
just in …. seen @Charlotte …..
Asia Credit Corp IS to Chris Morgan …….
Apols if already mentioned
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:39 pm
“Sugar Daddy, , earlier said:”
—————-
Beat me to it Charlotte. Greedy boys will have to wait for their dessert.
The ‘dribbling spit’ comment was a bit gross though.
Sam says:
June 27, 2013 at 5:06 pm
———————————
sorry Sam …. just reading back …..
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:54 pm
“If that cash was deposited as per request, ACC got money AND shares off Green.”
——————
The e:mail only shows the request for cash. Logically whoever stumped up the cash will have an interest in what it was used to purchase.
The Rizvi email is from 9 May 2012 and would appear to be an instruction from Rizvi, to Green to make a payment of £600,000 to the Nassau Branch of Union Banque Privee for the benefit of Asia Credit Corporation Limited. This is done via Barclays who would be the correspondent bank.
There is no mention of Rangers in the text of the email and nothing to suggest this transaction has anything to do with the purchase.
It is worth bearing in mind that the money is being sent from whoever to The Asia Credit Corporation. That could be various things. It could be repayment of something, it could be a payment for services rendered, or it could be for the Corporation to do something for someone else, thus hiding their identity.
It is interesting but too nebulous on it’s own to be significant.
Gaz says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:21 pm
“It is interesting but too nebulous on it’s own to be significant.”
———————–
I’d agree on its own it doesn’t say much. However as it seems to be an e:mail that ended up with CW, then there might be an evidence trail that ties it into a particular transaction in the shenanigans. Perhaps Tallboy, Sam or newtz will track it down. Any other takers?
Guys …. read my post earlier ….
Chris Morgan has £400k worth of shares in RIFC
@SugarD …… Is that Nuclear enough for you ….. and I believe there is more to come on the Rizvi issue
Like what about the £5.5m transferred to Imran ….
Rem ….. Rizvi is soooo Toxic …. worse than toxic ….. there cannot be even the slightest link or association with him …
Links or associations to some shady characters might get away with …. not good … but survivable
But NOT … Rizvi
Could you Imagine The Headlines …..
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:54 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:29 pm
————————————–
I don’t think you’ve grasped the point, echoboy. (or maybe you have – perhaps your just leading the witnesses) The email is from Risvi to Green asking for the money to be put in to ACC’s account – not the other way round. If that cash was deposited as per request, ACC got money AND shares off Green.
=====================================================================
I take your point and I have misread the email – the amount of cash involved seems high for commission but perhaps not when you consider the Orlit figures.
Could Orlit be a client of ACC? Because we don’t actually know that the money was ever transferred. So could this be the Orlit debt. And if Rizvi put up the actual investment cash did he create Orlit as the vehicle for him to get a slice back in commission?
But of course we have to consider that the exposure of Rizvi as a shareholder might also have meant that he didn’t actually pony-up the share money or re-routed it through another company. But that remains speculation at this stage.
One thing I have learnt from the whole Rangers financial tale is that every time you blink someone has a hand out for a slice of commission – that seems to be where the bulk of the money goes and it’s all legal.
Bear in mind Ms Herbison is Head of News and Sport at Clyde, and will therefore have a fair degree of control over the station’s output, especially sport
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:38 pm
The potential links to Rizvi have already been reported in the Scottish Sun, based on the tapes CF released.
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:00 pm
That would be the acid test for Charlotte. Happy as she is to engage and have a go when someone questions her motives, can she provide back up to a serious line of inquiry.
Others have asked for the 5 way agreement. Nothing came their way. I havent followed the Rizvi stuff as been busy on the phone most of the day to Charles, Brian and Imran. Got me there Gaz 🙂
If Charlotte “seeks truth” why would she not fully support those who want to help? Why the tease? Why not take a few days to find the incriminating stuff, following the requests & direction made on here or elsewhere. Why the deflections such as the SDM alias dig?
CW would take whatever offer he thought would help him. No court date yet so plenty time to settle. Season ticket money just coming in after all.
Am delighted if others find it riveting, compelling and a reason for coming here.
Am more than happy to post I was completely wrong should Charlotte blow the lid off the whole gaff.
Am just not convinced Charlotte is going to provide the dynamite.
Newtz likes his maps ….
saves notes etc etc and ability to add Links is brilliant ….
here’s another I maintain showing full shareholdings ….
http://flic.kr/p/eWXWnf
@Charlotte …… I know, I know ……. add as many secret tunnels as you like ….. but I do like my maps … x
Castofthousands says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:37 pm
That is on the assumption that CW was the source of the copy.
I’m not saying he wasn’t but I have not seen the evidence to confirm it.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:47 pm
If you aren’t interested in the material cool. To each their own.
Other people are.
Whether it will lead to “dynamite” or not isn’t really the point. Hearing tapes of these people doing business has been very interesting. Seeing their plans and correspondence has also been very enlightening.
Charlotte
What about the sausages? 😉
@Sugar Daddy
I’m not a Charlotte devotee and have no knowledge of her motives, but –
imagine you were given a DVD of 150,000 recipes from around the world, you would be able to search for specific ingredients say (but would have to account for differences in terminology regarding cooking techniques / equipment name / ingredient names)
Imagine you wanted to try out every single recipe! – it just wouldn’t be possible in a single lifetime, there would always be the nagging doubt that the recipe you hadn’t tried was the best recipe ever.
I forgot to mention that a lot of these recipes were scans from old cookbooks – OCR software can still be slow and labourious!
Gaz says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:46 pm
———————————–
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:38 pm
———————————–
The potential links to Rizvi have already been reported in the Scottish Sun, based on the tapes CF released.
———————————
The tapes as damning as they are do not by themselves proove anything other than confirm the association and the suggestion that £5.5m was recieved by Imran ……
There is no absolute evidence that the money was used …
More is needed to now actually tie Rizvi solidly to payments made (to whoever … whereever) that manifest into shares or financial assistance of any kind. ….. Any Kind …… remember this guy is so Toxic
We are/have been exposing the links and associations (…
Eco did the original donkey work last July) …
Charlotte is now adding the Succulent Angus …. real Meat !
Sorry for style of writing guys ….. Can’t help it …. LoL
And yes (actually) I do do Machine Code writing amongst many … many other things …. LOL
newtz says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:01 pm
The tapes as damning as they are do not by themselves proove anything other than confirm the association and the suggestion that £5.5m was recieved by Imran ……
There is no absolute evidence that the money was used …
——————————–
I agree.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:47 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:00 pm
=======================================================
SD] That would be the acid test for Charlotte. Happy as she is to engage and have a go when someone questions her motives, can she provide back up to a serious line of inquiry.
EB] As far as I am concerned CF’s motives are her own and there may be good reason for not revealing them as it could help lead to identification. As a poster she has as much right as anyone else to have a go if she feels under personal attack. Time will probably tell if she can provide back-up or wishes to.
SD] Others have asked for the 5 way agreement. Nothing came their way.
EB] Her material and possibly her timetable but up to her what she releases and when.
SD] If Charlotte “seeks truth” why would she not fully support those who want to help? Why the tease? Why not take a few days to find the incriminating stuff, following the requests & direction made on here or elsewhere. Why the deflections such as the SDM alias dig?
EB] Who knows? But there are many wolves wearing sheepskin coats who may want to help her right into court. The SDM alias dig is just a laugh and you have to ignore her or lighten-up and go along for the ride and enjoy it for what it is. I am pretty sure we will find out about the SDM alias at some stage. Most media trail future stories – it’s a common device and even bloggers do it.
SD] CW would take whatever offer he thought would help him. No court date yet so plenty time to settle. Season ticket money just coming in after all.
EB] The ST money isn’t enough and if it was raided how long would Rangers survive? And if Stockbridge goes or is impotent why would Smith pay-off CW unless there’s stuff involving Smith. In any case say CW is behind CF then maybe he has accepted he won’t be saved fiancially so all he’s going to do is barbecue some of his esrtwhile ‘friends’ and I would certainly be going for a very slow roast.
SD] Am delighted if others find it riveting, compelling and a reason for coming here.
Am more than happy to post I was completely wrong should Charlotte blow the lid off the whole gaff.
EB] It’s up to us all to make individual decisions what blogs we frequent and what posters we read and it certainly seems that CF interests you looking at your posts on the subject.
SD] Am just not convinced Charlotte is going to provide the dynamite.
EB] We are all entitled yo our opinions although I have often seen more damage done by slow fires than a dynamite explosion which can often sound and look spectacular but doesn’t deliver the expected result.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/city-spy-law-may-be-closing-in-on-runaway-rizvi-6400392.html
11 May 2011
More bad news for Rafat Rizvi, the $600 million (£367 million) tycoon found guilty on corruption and money-laundering charges in Indonesia in late 2010.
Indonesian officials have been infuriated by the difficulty of chasing him and his assets, and have just signed a co-operation deal with public prosecutors in 33 countries, including the UK. Rizvi was sentenced in absentia for 15 years for allegedly stealing from Bank Century, in which he was a major shareholder. But he has been able to live as a free man in London and Singapore due to the lack of an extradition treaty with Indonesia. Could the Jakarta Declaration herald the beginning of the end of such liberty?
…as Zhang keeps it in the family
Until his trial in Indonesia, Rizvi was chairman and chief executive of AIM-listed Tembusu Investments.
Quite properly, Rizvi, who claims the charges are trumped up and politically motivated, resigned from Tembusu for the sake of the business when the Indonesian investigations surfaced.
Perhaps not quite so properly, a young executive called Zhang Yun took his place.
Who she? An attractive, 39-year-old ex-Rothschild banker who also happens to be 50-something Rizvi’s new wife…
* City Spy hears Rizvi continued attending official Tembusu meetings through last year even after his resignation, sometimes turning up instead of Zhang Yun. Tembusu’s new broker, Allenby Capital, says its extensive due diligence shows Rizvi now has no connection or influence on the business. His wife used to run Tembusu anyway, Allenby points out, so she was the natural replacement despite the legal travails of her husband. Tembusu’s previous broker, Religare, was less convinced, City Spy’s mole at the London Stock Exchange whispers. Religare dropped the account like a hot potato and notified the LSE of its concerns as soon as Rizvi was convicted, particularly worried that neither he nor his wife had seen fit to notify Religare when the courts in Jakarta found him guilty in December.
=================================
Allenby was the company Imran Ahmed and Brian Stockbridge came from.
Tembusu changed to Nova
Green was associated to that.
It makes absolute sense that they would still all do “business” together.
Newtz
Have read back on your posts and others who commented. Correct me if I’m wrong, Chris Morgan is a director of a company that received payment from a company Rizvi is involved with. Chris Morgan owns shares in RIFC plc. Proves a link of sorts but there are many links. 6 degrees of separation and all that. Cant disagree with Gaz’s 8:21 assessment. To answer your question, I find it non nuclear.
Gaz, your right for me the story has to go somewhere. The minutiae of who said what to whom 12/18 months ago, especially when we know the outcomes and second guessed much of the detail anyway, is not taking the story forward. This is why I have my doubts on CF.
TSFM says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm
37 1 Rate This
Can’t see what Lorraine Herbison has done wrong in the alleged exchange between her an CW.
=======================================================
Strictly speaking she’s done nothing wrong, but it’s incredibly lazy journalism for her to indulge Whyte the way she did. There was strong evidence Whyte was a shyster but like most of the media Herbison opted for a policy of deference rather than seeking the truth.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm
So you are someone else who has seen all of these documents before and heard the tapes.
I must be one of the few these things are new to.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/imran-ahmad-of-rangers-the-portfolio-of-his-former-co-allenby-capital-by-100bjd/
Good piece on Ahmad forming Allenby Capital. I’m trying to remember when CW was introduced to Stockbridge by Ahmad in the taped conversation was any mentioned made of Stockbridge having a connection to Allenby?
With regard Lorraine Herbison, I just found the sycophantic tone a bit distasteful.
Maybe she was just stringing him along. She wouldn’t be the first to do that. The people on the tapes who were doing it also adopted an obsequious tone.
A lot of people treated Craig Whyte like the archetypal billionaire, wealth off the radar type character.
upthehoops says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:22 pm
TSFM says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm
37 1 Rate This
Can’t see what Lorraine Herbison has done wrong in the alleged exchange between her an CW.
=======================================================
Strictly speaking she’s done nothing wrong, but it’s incredibly lazy journalism for her to indulge Whyte the way she did. There was strong evidence Whyte was a shyster but like most of the media Herbison opted for a policy of deference rather than seeking the truth.
===================================================================
I think it’s fairly obvious that CW would not have been subjected to any awkward questions let alone a grilling. I also think that disparaging comments about fellow journalists on other organisations is just unprofessional.
I also think that to go out of her way to ‘protect’ CW by giving him a taped interview and not having to face live fans is actually a sell-out of the station’s audience.
There are many other aspects of her approaches to CW that I find distasteful and demeaning to highly professional female journos that I think will be cringing at her ‘style’ or possibly ‘wiles’. It does no favours for them in what can still be a bit of a man’s world with women journos only fit for the features department.
Also TSFM you have possibly posted without seeing the pic put-up by CF. I’m afraid that professional journos instinctively know where the ‘line’ is when dealing with people that they might have to do do stories about and more so if they might be serious stories.
Can you imagine the damage that a pic like that could cause if a PR company decided to have a go at the journo to blacken their reputation either by suggesting an over-friendliness meant they gave CW an easy time or that a woman scorned was being bitchy. And it remains a fact that there needn’t be anything between the two and probably isn’t.
But perception is all and that is a dangerous pic and IMO displays an amazing lack of professionalism on the one hand and an amazing level of naivety on the other.
TSFM says:
June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm
———————————
The whole point is the timing of the emails. CW has just been reported as lying in court by the BBC, a very serious allegation against someone in such an important position.
So when a senior news person from the most widely listened to station in the west of Scotland emails CW, does she ask him to confirm or deny this serious allegation?
No, she just simpers “much ado about nothing… :-)”, in which judgement of course she was spectacularly wrong.
This is clear evidence of the lazy journalism, cosy relationship between the press and RFC (very cosy judging by the photograph – is LH taller than CW or is she sitting on his knee??)
No calling to account, no questioning the calibre of the man, just a tacit email flirtation of the type you see so often in that medium.
Completes a sorry picture of the senior news and sports people at Clyde.
On the odd occasion where I’ve complained about nothing much happening, something very quickly happened. So I’m complaining, nothing much is happening.
The problem with these quiet news times is the various debates go round and round in circles, allowing more tenuous points and tedious posters to dominate, diverting us from the straight path, down a side street which takes us further from the truth.
Lets get back to reality: To all those that argue that maybe Rangers 2012 are the same club as Rangers 1872 – they are not. To all those who argue that club and company are separate, or want to throw in some nonsense about an undertaking – it is a fiction. As much as it makes you see red, and makes you feel blue, that’s the way it is.
Rangers 2012 can claim all day long that they are, in fact, Rangers 1872. They can do so without any fear of consequence. Why? Simply, because they are not Rangers 1872 and there is no chance that anyone will ever attach the liabilities of Rangers 1872 to Rangers 2012. So the real question is, how to you get Rangers 2012 to admit they are a new club? Can it be done in court? Can UEFA or the SFA do it for them?
Here’s a little something I have been thinking about. Contracts with suppliers will have contract definitions. What are the chances that one or two might include “Rangers FC”, or simply “Rangers” or “the Club”? Would it be worth a creditor taking the current club to court of the basis that they claim to be the same club, and they have a contract with “the Club”? It would make for a very interesting debate, particularly if it was one of the larger creditors or with a supplier who had their contract terminated. How about Ticketus, or the creditors of JJB? Could the SFA be a hostile witness – forced to confirm / deny the old club / new club / same club?
It was the mention of “the Club” in the Jelavic contract that got me thinking. This may be commonplace. It seems too simple, and maybe why it has not been done. I’m sure Charlotte could track down a contract or two.
Sugar Daddy says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm
The minutiae of who said what to whom 12/18 months ago, especially when we know the outcomes and second guessed much of the detail anyway, is not taking the story forward. This is why I have my doubts on CF.
====================================================================
Well for an anorak like myself it’s very valuable to look back at my interpretations back then and see how close or how wrong I was in my analysis and speculation by seeing documents and listening to conversations I knew nothing about.
So it helps me better hone my ‘skills’ and so is valuable for that slone to me if nothing else.
I disagree that we know the final outcome and I believe we could be years away from that in various areas. Whether we move the story forward as a result of CF material is a matter of personal opinion but I think her efforts have caused all sorts of ripples.
Many of these have yet to become visible but there are unseen currents running – of that I am sure.
And if CW or Worthington’s end-up in court then obviously if he has influence over CF then he would be foolish to reveal all at this stage. It is obvious that some of those tweeting CF and demanding she release everything right now are working on behalf of those in many organisations who are sitting sweating wondering if they are going to be ‘outed’.
It may indeed pressure some of them to go native to protect their own position. So we all take our pick of how we want to exercise our brain and spend our time and, for me, CF beats 3D Chess.