Three Shakes … and a Twist

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Three Shakes … and a Twist

Guest Post by James Forrest
Those who like to read the techno-thrillers of Tom Clancy will remember well the scene in The Sum of all Fears, when the nuclear bomb explodes in Denver, outside the stadium where the Super Bowl is being played. Clancy handles the moment in two very distinct chapters. The second is a vivid and frightening examination of the explosion’s terrible effects as they are felt, firstly in Denver and then experienced around the world.

Before that, he devotes an entire chapter to the mechanics of the explosion itself. Chapters like this are either what attract readers to Clancy in the first place or turn them off entirely. It is technical, it is complex, and the layman who reads it and fully understands it is indeed a massive geek. Of all the times he has loaded the reader with technical detail, this is probably when he risked most in terms of keeping you interested in the story. Yet it works. The chapter is not long, but nor is it short. And the events in it span not seconds but fractions of a second

It was in that chapter I first learned the term “shake”, so named for the old aphorism “a shake of a lamb’s tail”. A “shake” is a term used in nuclear physics. It represents ten nanoseconds. To grasp fully the size of that, consider that there are a billion nanoseconds in a second. The chemical process involved in a nuclear detonation involves a number of “shakes”, with a chain reaction usually completed in 50.

Clancy’s decision to devote an entire chapter of the book to a few nanoseconds came back to me over and over again during the weeks and months of the Rangers crisis. It became clear to me that, drawn out though the events following administration were, what we were seeing was not the effect of the explosion but the explosion itself. Those months were our nanoseconds. Every day, every revelation, every moment we thought was a separate event, was merely a peek inside the bomb case, at the chemical process of a chain reaction.

I would say the chain reaction was completed on the day HMRC announced they were refusing the CVA proposal. That was the detonation. It’s only now we’re witnessing the explosion, and its effects, and in my view we are still a long way from the end of that process. We have had the initial double flash thermal pulse and we’ve seen some EMP effects, but the real damage is still to come. The shock wave and the fireball have yet to spread, and their cumulative effects could yet annihilate Ibrox and extend as far as Hampden.

Am I making claims of “financial Armageddon”? No, I’m not. I never believed the collapse of Rangers would devastate Scottish football. I thought then, and now, that it was scaremongering nonsense to even suggest it. It didn’t matter to me whether the authorities were spreading those stories because of a deep-seated love of the Ibrox club, or because they had bonuses at stake, or out of their own internal, personal weaknesses. Those stories were inconsistent, based on worst case scenarios which were never likely to materialise, and insulting. The notion that the game in this country amounts to no more than one or two teams is offensive.

I love football. I always have. I’m a Celtic supporter, but my interests in the game extend far beyond my own club. At its best, football is a tremendous unifier of people, from those wonderful stories about Christmas Day in the trenches of World War I to the matches organised every year between Palestinian and Israeli children. The game has the potential for tremendous good. I am proud that my own club’s supporters have honoured the dead of Hillsborough and Ibrox. I am proud they unfurled a banner to the Benfica player Miklos Feher, and invaded Seville and showed that city how to party. I am proud of every moment when the supporters of a club applauded an injured player, or staged a silence to honour an official or competitor at another team. Although there are some who would use this sport in a divisive way, who would hijack it for their own ends, I believe this game can still be an inspiration, and find the best in all of us.

I think what happened during this summer, as the fans of every club in the land made their voices heard, was one of the greatest moments in Scottish football’s recent history. I believe it will have an impact far beyond one season. I think it was special.

My concern, as I’ve said, is that the appalling effects of the detonation at Ibrox are still to be fully realised. I am worried about the impact they could yet have on all of us.

Let me be quite specific about the two things that worry me most. They are to do with the decision to grant Sevco/Rangers a license to play in the Scottish Football League this year.

First, I believe the license was granted without sufficient guarantees being given by Charles Green and others that they would respect the decisions taken by the independent judiciary panel of the SPL in relation to EBTs, and secondly, I am concerned that not enough is known about Green and his financial backers, or plans for Rangers, for the authorities to be satisfied that the club is in good financial health. I don’t believe for one second anyone can allay my fears in these two areas. It is obvious to all that due diligence has not been done, and the entire situation at Rangers/Sevco is still shrouded in doubt, and that anything may yet happen.

The independent panel investigating dual contracts is going to have to make the most momentous decision in the history of the game in the UK. I do not believe what Rangers are accused of has any precedent. We are talking about a decade or more in which the results of every single match might be in doubt. Every single game. The rules were not written to envision such an appalling breach of faith. It would seem almost inevitable that stripping of titles will be the smallest of Charles Green and Ally McCoist’s concerns if this verdict goes against them.

Frankly, I don’t see an alternative to suspending Rangers membership of football in this country for at least two years, with points deductions and monetary fines to follow when the suspension period is done. This is not harsh; in fact it falls far short of the maximum penalty, which is expulsion from the game altogether, and as it is the authorities are going to have to do a damned good job of setting out the reasons why that ultimate sanction is not applied. It will not be enough to say it would damage the game in Scotland to wipe the club away. To allow a decade of malfeasance to pass without that ultimate sanction would create the perception that Rangers is above the law, and I cannot think of anything that would do the game more harm than for any club to be considered too big, or too important, to be subject to the regulations.

With their money on the table, I don’t see any way Charles Green and his cohorts will accept the judgement of the independent panel if it has an impact on their plans to recoup their investments. With the way he’s rallied the Rangers fans behind him recently, by essentially talking about a conspiracy against them, I don’t see how he convinces them to accept sanctions, even if he personally was inclined to do so. He has painted himself into a corner where now, if he wants his money at all, he has to fight, and keep on fighting. Without the written guarantee that the club would accept whatever the panel decides, without recourse to the law, I will be shocked if this matter doesn’t end up in the courts somewhere down the line, because I don’t think for one second he signed up to that particular demand.

I think the SFA backed down on this, the most fundamental matter of them all.

Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.

At an early stage in the Rangers crisis, a couple of people told me they thought the club would not play football for at least a year. I told them of all the possible scenarios that was the most unlikely, because I honestly could see no way back for them once they had gone. There is no precedent I am aware of, anywhere, for a football club taking a “year out” only to return. Certainly, in the context of the Scottish game I didn’t see how it could be done without creating one almighty shambles, or by bending the rules until the elastic snapped.

Yet I’ve since become convinced that it was the correct course of action. The club calling itself Rangers FC is still in a state of flux. The issues still surrounding it are enormous and potentially devastating. There are any number of ways in which the entire edifice could utterly collapse. The liquidators and HMRC could yet challenge the takeover, or the coming share issue. Craig Whyte may yet emerge and take a claim to the courts. The share issue itself could be an utter failure, leaving the club unable to meet annual running costs. All of this, even without the vast effects of the EBT case, which has the potential to wash the whole club away.

Had Rangers been out of the game for a year, these issues could have been properly explored, dealt with and put behind them, and the game as whole.

Of course, it’s just possible that the worst is over. It’s possible that this particular nuclear detonation, like the one is The Sum of All Fears, is an enormous “fizzle”, that the appalling destruction unleashed will not be on the thermonuclear level which could obliterate our hopes of a fresh start, of forward motion for the whole game. It might be that everything at Ibrox is hunky-dory, that this, all I’ve written, is the product of a febrile imagination, on the same level as the financial Armageddon nonsense we spent the summer hearing about.

It may well be, but only if the people who’ve been right all along have suddenly gotten it wrong. The evidence all points to something big, and bad, coming this way.

The smart folks will be hunkering down in their shelters for a while yet.

James is a co-editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, latest issue out 17th October (digital, and free), featuring women’s football

http://en.calameo.com/read/001382993b7dff7feed1b

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,174 Comments so far

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goosyPosted on2:38 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Have the Sevco fans forgotten Craig Whyte standing on the steps at Ibrox announcing Administration and promising RFC would get through it?
He went inside and hasn`t been seen since in Glasgow

Any fan who thinks Green is less of a Spiv than Whyte needs their head felt

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youtawknabootPosted on2:39 pm - Oct 29, 2012


scapaflow14 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:31

This particular banana boat is anchored by The Tail o’ the Bank, awaiting towage to Inverkeithing for scrapping…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Now that would certainly be a ..turnip for the books

…enough already 🙂

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ddmc999Posted on2:45 pm - Oct 29, 2012


sorry for spawning the veggie jokes 🙂

np ordinaryfan I forget we have an international readership !

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youtawknabootPosted on2:50 pm - Oct 29, 2012


ddmc999 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:45

sorry for spawning the veggie jokes 🙂

np ordinaryfan I forget we have an international readership !
.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

dd agreed…lettuce just leaf it at that..shall we

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valentinesclown

valentinesclownPosted on2:52 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Charlie Says eeeooooeeeooooooeeeoooo No debts
Charlie says eeeeeeooooooeeeeooooooo. Not Playing in SPL
Charlie says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeoooooo Champions League Music and final.
Charlie says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Big Crowds
Charlie says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Season ticket money in bank
Charlie says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Ticketus not involved
Charley says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Will not forget SPL treatment of Rangers
Charley says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Rangers financially sound
Charley says eeeeeeeooooooeeeeeooooo Please buy shares

I say really honestly, who is going to believe a lying tomcat.

According to Charlie at least 20,000 share buying fans.

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dunnmanPosted on2:53 pm - Oct 29, 2012


It may just be me but RM is not accessible? I’m wondering if action has been taken at last against the general abusive, illegal dross that is published in that particular forum…..probably just my laptop but is nice to think right has progressed over wrong.

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Tartawulver

TartawulverPosted on3:01 pm - Oct 29, 2012


The ‘I didnae come up the Clyde in a banana boat’ phrase may well, or may not, have had an originally racist meaning, but its use these days is generally taken as just a Scottish term for ‘how gullible do you think I am?’

One of my school teachers used the term a lot in the ’70s (when we had ‘forgotten’ to bring in our homework book for example), and coupled the phrase with ‘I didnae see a banana until 1952!’ He certainly meant it as implying a lack of sophistication in the ways of the world, and was more poking fun at himself than at others when he said it.

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m8dreamerPosted on3:01 pm - Oct 29, 2012


M8Dreamer

Having listened to Chuckies interview on Talk Sport this morning, it is abundantly clear that this man would be better writing Fairy Stories rather than running a football club.
The constant drivel and blatant lies that come out of his mouth are just an embarassment.
While Internet Bambpots are able to see through this charade, the deluded Rangers Tribute Act supporters and the MSM Media lap up every word that he speaks as being the saviour of Scottish Football.
If the deluded RTA supporters fall hook, line and sinker for this Share Offer, they will prove conclusively that a fool and his money are easily parted.
If this occurrs, they deserve everything that comes there way in the future, by allowing this fraudster to ride off into the sunset with their money.
Dont say that you were not warned.

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scapaflow14

scapaflow14Posted on3:03 pm - Oct 29, 2012


dunnman says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:53

Getting a 502 error, usually means that there is a problem with one of the servers config.

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ikiPosted on3:05 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Frank Forrest says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 12:31
12 0 Rate This
Currently listening to Chuckles on radio. If someone who refers to himself in the third person not an indicator of a personality disorder?

=====
iki would say yes to that question.

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redetinPosted on3:18 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Meanwhile, Merchant House Group, 10.6% owned by Craig Whyte’s Liberty Capital posts a wee warning today. The long-suffering shareholders may see their currently suspended shares being cancelled entirely.

“However, the adequacy of working capital at this time remains uncertain and as sufficient funding may not be received in the short term, the board is also exploring all other options available to it, which may include asset or business disposals, and there is also a risk of cancellation of trading on AIM.”

http://www.merchanthousegroup.com/rns/half-yearly-report291012

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neepheidPosted on3:22 pm - Oct 29, 2012


TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:01

The ‘I didnae come up the Clyde in a banana boat’ phrase may well, or may not, have had an originally racist meaning, but its use these days is generally taken as just a Scottish term for ‘how gullible do you think I am?
================================

Spot on, I was brought up in Bridgeton in the 50’s, and my mother and aunties used “banana boat” interchangeably with “bike” and “watter biscuit”. There was no connotation other than total implausibility. There was only one form of racism in the Glasgow of the 50’s, and it had nothing to do with your skin colour.

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sinnicleseanPosted on3:25 pm - Oct 29, 2012


The “dalmarnock” And the “carrick head” were the two sewage boats that took loads out into the Firth for dumping. Because they were predominantly yellow, they were nicknamed the banana boats. The names are dredged up from my hazy memory, and so may be a bit out, but I used to see them most days as I skived at my desk in the OK fuel depot. That is what I have always understood to be the basis for the “banana boat” saying. Any corroboration?

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john clarkePosted on3:36 pm - Oct 29, 2012


On the CG interview, I am sure I am not alone in thinking that the man has lost all touch with objective reality and truth.

The troubling feature is that his farragos of self-contradictory nonsense are lapped up with uncritical fervour by so many in the media , who simply give him free space to trot out his inaccuracies, without any kind of challenge.

We are, of course, only dealing with football, and Del-boy-like ‘business’ people.

But with journalists such as we have (in the main) we would not expect to see hellish much opposition to an Adolf or Uncle Joe.

If they show no courage in dealing with the likes of CG, they’re not at all likely to take on a political demagogue ready to stir up the knuckle-draggers

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Humble PiePosted on3:37 pm - Oct 29, 2012


The Clash of The Typists – Internet Bampots v Succulent Lambpots

True Journalism should be guided by a set of universal principles, namely:
1. Journalism’s first obligation is to the truth.
2. Its first loyalty is to citizens.
3. Its essence is a discipline of verification.
4. Its practitioners must maintain an independence from those they cover.
5. It must serve as an independent monitor of power.
6. It must provide a forum for public criticism and compromise.
7. It must strive to make the significant interesting and relevant.
8. It must keep the news comprehensive and proportional.
9. Its practitioners must be allowed to exercise their personal conscience.

Throughout the last decade or so, many in the mainstream media have sought to denigrate the rise of the blogosphere. In the battle for hearts and minds, this assault on the ‘vox populi’ appears to be as a result of the perceived threat that unregulated ‘citizen journalists’ pose to their ‘time-honoured profession’. This is deprecation appears based primarily on their fear that, as the internet grows in scope, there might no longer be a need for ‘paid’ reporters as all the required raw material on any story will be easily available and accessible to anyone with a computer and an internet connection.

The fatal flaw in their thinking was, as should have been obvious, that the only reason people actually continue to pay to read their drivel is that most of us have neither the time nor the inclination to spend the hours it takes to read through and analyse the raw data ourselves. Some of us have got lives.

In many ways both forms of journalism share a number of common goals: to engage with their readers, to gain popularity, to attract people to their publications and inform them as to ‘what’s happening’ in the world around them. The main difference is that one group seem to do it almost exclusively for the money.

Critics of the blogosphere, for the most part so-called ‘professional’ journalists, assert that unfettered citizen reporting is too amateurish in content, prejudiced in opinion and random in both quality and coverage. These cynical ‘blogophobes’ also complain, erroneously, that these ‘unlicensed’ and mostly anonymous bloggers are not subject to the same degree of scrutiny and regulation to which they must themselves adhere. They have, as is their wont, even submitted a number of pejorative terms to describe these concerned civilian commentators including ‘internet bampots’ and ‘keyboard cowards’ in an attempt to further malign their perceived adversaries. However, all of these same assertions could equally be applied to a compliant and arrogant mainstream media which is now almost hopelessly conflicted by the corporate kickbacks of most commercial publications

To be fair, many football blogs and fan’s websites are quite amateurish, however this should not be surprising. Most fan sites are really just places for supporters of a particular bias to vent their collective spleens and, as such, prejudice should be viewed as a matter of course. However, there are some sites in which the posters are allowed to go way beyond what a fair-minded person would find acceptable with some bordering on (if not actually) criminal. That most of these offensive sites are aimed at and frequented by ‘supporters’ of one particular persuasion should be the primary concern to the decent fans of that club. New legislation in Scotland aimed at deterring online threats and abuse have been brought in with little appreciable effect. A perfunctory glance at the comments on the pages of these websites illustrates just how deeply entrenched some of the sectarian, supremacist and racist attitudes are in this country. That this is tolerated, never mind encouraged by the editors or moderators of these sites should be of major concern to all people living in a so-called ‘civilised’ society.

What is certain, though, is that the blogosphere is starting to blur the distinction between what is and what is not journalism. This applies equally to sports journalism as it does to the other branches of the profession. As even the most established media are beginning to accept, we are at the point where the online community is becoming the predominant force in ‘forming the opinions’ of the general public. The absolute fiasco that is Scottish football, the calamitous implosion of Rangers FC and how it has been investigated and reported by both the mainstream and the online media is a superlative example, in microcosm, of how this ‘Clash of the Typists’ is playing out on a world wide scale.

In some ways it’s just horses for courses – just as some would rather read The Herald than The Record, people are attracted to those sites that make them feel part of a community of the likeminded. Many people of my generation are, understandably, reticent about putting their personal opinions on record. Young people, although, have less inhibitions about broadcasting their views no matter how ill-informed and, more often than not, misspelled. However, most of this inane tosh is reserved for commenting on other more erudite posts. The views of these single-issue bampots whilst often inflammatory and certainly prejudiced can be easily avoided and are probably best ignored. For some of these immature idiots (they are only young and surely have the right to be wrong) even receiving a ‘thumbs down’ on one of their witterings is akin to a personal slight on their character which must be challenged with the full might of their unwashed tongues.

When this brand of rabble-rousing rhetoric comes into the mainstream it is less easy to ignore and its effect on the population can be extremely profound and destructive. The established media owes it to its citizens to tell the truth, no matter how painful. Their first obligation is to the truth, their first loyalty to the citizens.

Let’s be absolutely clear here, The Rangers story is, by no means, exclusively a football story, far from it. It is, in fact, a pitiful tale of business collapse, tax avoidance, corporate corruption (at many levels), alleged criminal coercion and conspiracy, intimidation, subterfuge, political intrigue and institutional bias. It is without doubt the most significant sports-related news in Scotland ever, with devastating impacts far beyond the field of play. It is, above all, the story of the systemic failure of leadership, integrity and accountability across many of Scotland’s long established and previously respected institutions.

One would have expected, then, that this long-running saga would have been covered, in minute detail by the most qualified and respected journalists in their respective fields. Even the lowly editors of the Gossip and Lifestyle columns would have seen the many headline-grabbing opportunities to showcase their skills and ‘shift some copy’. Yet, for some reason, the Rangers saga has been almost exclusively investigated and reported by wilfully ignorant football hacks with no expertise in anything other than trying desperately to make their, often ill-considered, opinions on a 90 minute football game sound remotely entertaining.

There was a time, not so long ago, when the sports section of Scottish newspapers were held in some reverence by the average punter as bastions of ‘fair play’ and journalists and commentators venerated as defenders of free speech. Alas, with surprisingly few notable exceptions, that naive delusion has been well and truly exposed for what it is. Nowadays, people are more likely to be of the view that the press are corrupted, inherently biased and that they simply ‘make stuff up’ to suit their own, or their master’s, corporate agenda(s).

From the quality of their output in recent years, this observation appears to be accurate. This could be, in part, due to the predictable ‘lazy journalism’ brought on by the complacency which comes with having a ‘monopoly’ on the news or because their budgets have been cut so sharply with the decline of their readership that if they can’t investigate something by making a few phone calls, they probably won’t bother to investigate it at all. As a result, most hacks have been reduced to elaborating on the output from their ‘contacts’ within specific clubs and by copying and pasting those already well-crafted press releases from highly-paid PR companies into their daily rags. By repeating the lies proffered by their paymasters and creating confusing controversy they have become no more than ‘purveyors of untruths’, the exact opposite of journalists.

However, a number of common or garden citizens have set up their weblogs, with that most elusive yet noble of causes….’the Truth’. This year, the anonymous RTC from the rangerstaxcase blog was awarded the prestigious Orwell Prize which celebrates making ‘political writing into an art’. This sensibly moderated but self-regulated blog was set up in order to address the lack of any critical coverage of the spectacular disintegration of Rangers FC from the within the ranks of the Scottish MSM in what has become known as ‘succulent lamb’ journalism.

The RTC site, and its successor, The Scottish Football Monitor, attracts mostly intelligent and thoughtful comment and analysis from a wide range of football fans from across the country. Amongst the generic posters, many posters can boast years of experience in any number of relevant fields from football generally to business, taxation, accountancy, corporate law and politics. The quality of informed debate and analysis is nothing short of exemplary. That it remains entirely inclusive and light-hearted is a credit to those well-brought-up individuals frequenting and contributing to these sites.

By simply reading and referring to all the ‘raw material’ relating to Rangers finances which is easily accessible in the public domain (it was a PLC at the time), RTC was able to establish a ‘prima facia’ case to answer for this once acclaimed club. By analysing the available data and disseminating it in an (almost) jargon-free format while encouraging others to do likewise, RTC soon attracted an legion of unpaid amateur investigators who took it upon themselves to uncover the pertinent facts in the Rangers story. By scrutinising this freely available information via Google and public service websites, many facts surrounding the case were established and stories broken online long before they made it onto the mainstream press.

Obviously newspapers are restricted by print deadlines and the like, however the established Scottish football media, who had access to all the same information, didn’t even attempt to investigate the story. In fact they either ignored it, deflected from it, refused to discuss it or, in most cases simply dismissed it as the paranoid ravings of the obsessed and deluded. One particularl hack, in mitigation of their ineptitude, even claimed, laughably, that a former owner of Rangers had paid someone to wipe the record of their existence from Google. When these ‘breaking stories’ actually turned out to be true, these same ‘unprincipled typists’ simply resorted to plagiarism, took the credit for these new disclosures and claimed that ‘that is what we have been saying all along’. These mis-speakers are not that fond of unprofitable truths preferring instead to sell the lucrative lie. In an effort to maintain these financially favourable falsehoods, they are forced to ignore, avoid and deflect from the truth for as Goebbels said “The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie.” The problem is that liars need a good memory and they need to keep covering their tracks.

The preposterous notions currently advanced by our Scottish football media that somehow everyone has it in for The Rangers, that they remain the same ‘club’ despite liquidation looming, that some mythical ‘holding company’ went bust due to some legal ‘technicality’, that there was a ‘lone gunman’ responsible for the assassination of the club, etc. not only perpetuates the lie itself, it provides justification to hate-filled provocateurs and gives comfort to the deluded cyber-bullies, it also serves to inflame an already serious situation. Remember , Voltaire said, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” Perhaps we are not quite there yet, but the level of threat is palpable and it is well past time that this assault on the minds of our countrymen was addressed by our so-called leaders.

By the way, I am neither a professional journalist nor a paid commentator and I reserve, absolutely, the right to be wrong.

And another thing, if the line between journalists and non-journalists really is becoming blurred, what of the special privileges typically extended to the press? Can I have Hugh Keevins’ withdrawn press pass to Celtic Park?

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briggsbhoyPosted on3:37 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Charlie needs to reference this site to see what drivel he has already spouted so he can be consistant next time he gets in front of a hack or a mic.

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Humble PiePosted on3:44 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Apologies for the long post.

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angus1983Posted on3:55 pm - Oct 29, 2012


dunnman says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:53

It may just be me but RM is not accessible?

——
I’m sure the authorities may have received complaints about this and other similar sites, due to the concentrated sectarian and other abusive language. 😉

RM felt it necessary to post a warning to their users about the use of such language. As has been evident for a long time, their users chose to ignore that.

If it is the case that RM has finally been closed down, then they have no-one to blame but themselves.

http://www.report-it.org.uk/home

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briggsbhoyPosted on3:55 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:44

And you claim to have a life and can write pieces this long!

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thebasharmilestegPosted on3:58 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Top comment from Humble Pie – this could have been an article.

As to the “banana boat” reference, if you can forgive an interjection by someone who was born and brought up within the sound of the St. Nicholas kirk carillion, I heard once that a banana boat on the Clyde was in fact the nickname for a dredger, the chain of buckets being something like a banana in profile. The inference being that a crewman on a dredger never got further than the dumping ground, and was therefore more gullible than a real seagoing salior who had been to foreign ports. Correct me if I’m wrong.

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liveinhopPosted on3:59 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Green says he was working for nothing since February, and has only now taken a salary.

He never bought the Club until June, but he was paying the bills prior to that because Rangers were skint!

2 things occur to me;

Before he ‘bought’ the club, if D&P were taking money from him while there were other bids on the table, it would constitute a clear conflict of interest during the bidding process
.
And, if Green was paying the bills while the season was in progress, Rangers players were effectively being paid by a third party!

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on3:59 pm - Oct 29, 2012


youtawknaboot says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:39

scapaflow14 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:31

This particular banana boat is anchored by The Tail o’ the Bank, awaiting towage to Inverkeithing for scrapping…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Now that would certainly be a ..turnip for the books

…enough already 🙂
___________________________________________________________________
Hope Neepheid’s no’ reading this 😆

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Humble PiePosted on4:00 pm - Oct 29, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:55

LOL…no, I claimed that ‘some of us’ have lives, not necessarily me..:D

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Paul McConvillePosted on4:00 pm - Oct 29, 2012


In which I ponder –
• the mystery of what Mr Green is selling
• the likely structure of the sale
• how likely will Rangers fans be to buy shares in the company which owns the company which owns the football club
• the new Rangers owner having as bad luck with official forms as his predecessor

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/which-company-is-charles-green-floating-why-no-sh01-lodged-re-the-22-million-shares/

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bangordubPosted on4:03 pm - Oct 29, 2012


angus1983 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:55
0 0 Rate This
Yep, it’s Died: ‘It’s not pinin’! ‘It’s passed on! This webpage is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet ‘its maker! ‘It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, ‘It rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed ‘it to Ibrokes ‘It’d be pushing up the daisies! ‘Is metabolic processes are now ‘istory! ‘It’s off the twig! ‘It’s kicked the bucket, ‘It’s shuffled off ‘its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile!!It’s f*ckin’ snuffed it!….. THIS IS AN EX-RANGER FORUM!!

With apologies to the Monty’s………
Episode 2 coming up, Rise of the Undead RM Forum, can’t wait 🙂

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iceman63Posted on4:09 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Green’s rantings reveal his utter desperation. It has all gone horribly wrong. He needs cash and needs it quickly.

LH’s report on the admin may well sink him in any case, if it rejects D and P’s handling of same. The doubt such a judgement would place on the ownership of the club means that no share offer will be possible and he hasn’t the cash to make it to the end of the year I recko, hence the sale documents for a fire sale of Murray Park and Ibrox ( a distressed seller if ever i saw one) published on CQN over the weekend. This is a desperate search for cash when all other sources have gone.

He will go – and go soon- and either leave a liquidated SEVCO or one saddled to the eyeballs with future debts – and no stadium and indeed no trangible assets of any sort. Assuming of course that the whole thing is not reversed by the court. In either case we are deep in the swirling vortex of the rabbit hole – with no obvious way out.

Prepare for a double liquidation and a burial of the reanimated corpse. Where it leaves Scottish football with agreements on TV deals expressly including SEVCO, and a league minus a club by December – I have no idea.

Expect angry berzz blaming all except themselves, and a removal of all the key players in this fiasco from post. I then believe a judicial enquiry must ensue into the governance of the game.

Chaos and more chaos to come- the end game is upon us!

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liveinhopPosted on4:12 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Please be true iceman

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:19 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Well one bear’s convinced.From Rangers Rumours:

Charles Green was on with keys & Gray this morning.
Says there is no chance of this ever happening, in fact he came across rather well in everything he was asked.
This guy is the real deal & honest as the day is long we have the right man in charge, get behind him and the team.

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arabest1Posted on4:19 pm - Oct 29, 2012


RM back up and muck spreading!

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scarbhoyPosted on4:23 pm - Oct 29, 2012


On theme of banana boats – however innocent it may appear the background is racist. Every major waterway in the UK is used in the same way. I’ve heard in relation to the Thames, Mersey, Tyne – it’s not necessarily how you see the term but how those – particularly those people who came here in the 50s and 60s perceive it.
Enough,

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scapaflow14

scapaflow14Posted on4:32 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Iceman, from your fingers to Lord Hodge’s eyes! However, I think the best we can hope for is that Lord Hodge will find a conflict existed, and immediately appoints BDO with at brief to investigate the administration and report back to Lord Hodge at an early date.

To quote a favourite of the Ibrox faithful:

“This is not the end, nor even the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning”

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chris shields (@chrisshields10)Posted on4:36 pm - Oct 29, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:

Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:19

Well one bear’s convinced.From Rangers Rumours:

Charles Green was on with keys & Gray this morning.
Says there is no chance of this ever happening, in fact he came across rather well in everything he was asked.
This guy is the real deal & honest as the day is long we have the right man in charge, get behind him and the team.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sound like PR team have been busy

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:40 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Charles Green has revealed that Craig Whyte is suing the club for money he believes he is entitled to for agreeing to sell his shares to Green’s consortium last summer.

Whyte made several demands during talks about the shares, including a request for £1m a season and seats in the director’s box, and he wants to be paid for negotiating with the club. The Ibrox board rejected Whyte’s demands out of hand.

Whyte announced last week that he also intends to sue the administrators, Duff & Phelps, because he believes they had agreed to return to the club to him after the administration process.

Green reiterated, during an interview today on Talksport, that Green has never been part of his consortium, and neither has the finance company, Ticketus, which lost £22m they loaned to Whyte against future season ticket sales when the club went into administration last February.

“I’ve never worked worked with Craig Whyte,” Green said. “I was introduced to him by Imran Ahmad [Rangers’ commercial director], Craig Whyte did introduce me to Duff & Phelps. We needed to get hold of Craig Whyte’s shares, so Duff & Phelps would treat us as credible.

“We didn’t need them in the end because it went down newco route. I met him four times in London, Imran Ahmad has had loads of meetings with him. People thought we were working with Craig Whyte, [but] I believe he is now suing us, because he believes he was entitled to something for handing over the shares.

“Ticketus don’t have any involvement whatsoever. They were involved with Craig Whyte, which caused a problem, and previously to that DM used them when he was running the club. The season ticket money that came into the club [during the summer] is sitting in the bank. It is Rangers Football Club’s [money]. The club has got cash, and it’s still got no debts.”

Talking ahead of the club’s launch on the AIM market before the turn of the year, Green repeated his assertion that the club will not play in the Scottish Premier League while he remains chief executive.

He intends to remain in the position until Rangers qualify for the Champions League again, however, and explained this by noting that the leagues in Scotland are likely to be restructured.

Green also categorically denied rumours on Celtic supporters’ websites that sale and leaseback of the club’s properties – Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion car park – are being considered, and that the club had been “massaging” attendance figures this season.

“I’m running the club, I’m making the decisions and I’m going to protect the club with my life,” Green said. “Nobody’s going to abuse it, [or say] rubbish that I’m going to sell the ground. Absolute nonsense. The blog I’ve seen said that we’re going to enter into a sale and leaseback for £8.5m, you can shove the offer where the sun don’t shine. We’ve got a valuation in the share prospectus in excess of £80m. I might be Green, but I’m not a cabbage. It’s just rubbish put out by people trying to disrupt the IPO.

“We haven’t [been massaging attendances]. The turnaround at Rangers and where we are taking it is fantastic news for Rangers fans, but many of our competitors are unhappy to see us rise as a phoenix. [So] people go to police under Freedom Of Information, but those numbers in every stadium will be less than the official numbers.

“They don’t have access to all the corporate hospitality and sponsors [numbers]. That’s thousands at Rangers, so there is a disparity between the numbers the police book in. We have no reason to massage the numbers. We’ve got a stadium and anyone can look at a stand and see a few empty seats.”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/charles-green-craig-whyte-is-suing-rangers-over-shares-sale.1351514827

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doontheslopePosted on4:53 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Charles Green on SSN with Jim Whyte.

He now claims to have a black book (like Jack Charlton) where he writes down the names of his enemies so that he can get his revenge on them. Green states that his book is in his head and he will not forget.

He repeated all the guff from the radio this morning, however, he added that the SPL Board are thieves and that they stole money from him. When ‘pressed’ by Whyte, he stated, “The SPL were owe us money for coming second in the league last year. They didnt give us it, they kept it. They stole from us.”

RIGHT, SPL, ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS MAN?

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chris shields (@chrisshields10)Posted on4:53 pm - Oct 29, 2012


iki says:

Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:05

15

0

Rate This

Frank Forrest says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 12:31
12 0 Rate This
Currently listening to Chuckles on radio. If someone who refers to himself in the third person not an indicator of a personality disorder?

=====
iki would say yes to that question.
———————————————-
Or a Boxer!!!

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doontheslopePosted on4:56 pm - Oct 29, 2012


ie Report him to SFA!

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yemaundreeyerweirdPosted on4:57 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Re the “banana boat” as a euphemism for gullibility, was it not because the bananas were green as they came up the Clyde?

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:59 pm - Oct 29, 2012


iceman63 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:09

… we are deep in the swirling vortex of the rabbit hole – with no obvious way out…
=================================================================

I am looking at a slightly different swirling vortex out of the windows of my 30th floor flat: Hurricane Sandy.

And Sod’s Law means that the FTT result will probably be released this week – when there will be widespread power outages here – and I won’t be able to access this site. 🙁

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twopandaPosted on5:07 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Lets see now – CW suing CG over shares

Now I`m confused – In April
Wasn’t DK suing CW over shares or was that Ellis suing CW over shares
– Or both of them suing CW over shares?
Or did the shares just disappear – or did CG get his two quid back
Oh yes and TU was suing CW and;
D+P were suing GW – then he changed sides – now they may or may not sue GW
Maybe I`m taking this all out of `context`

Our media just too fast for me fraid – cant keep up with this pace of PR

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youtawknabootPosted on5:20 pm - Oct 29, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:59

youtawknaboot says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:39

scapaflow14 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 14:31

This particular banana boat is anchored by The Tail o’ the Bank, awaiting towage to Inverkeithing for scrapping…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Now that would certainly be a ..turnip for the books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hope Neepheid’s no’ reading this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Ahh..dinnae worry man,he will hear aboot it soon enough…its bound to leek out, shirley !! 🙂

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theoldcoursePosted on5:25 pm - Oct 29, 2012


StevieBC says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:59

I am looking at a slightly different swirling vortex out of the windows of my 30th floor flat: Hurricane Sandy.

===============================

I was musing with a friend this afternoon that Sandy was perhaps not a menacing enough name for the hurricane currently threatening the east coast of the USA. He reminded me of events earlier this summer and postulated that perhaps the US hurricane centre had Sandy Jardine in mind when they named it. Stay safe StevieBC

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wottpiPosted on5:26 pm - Oct 29, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:40

Nice to know that Mr Charles has a look at blogs every now and again.
Hopefully he finds some of the content interesting and we are helping keep him on the straight narrow and ensuring everything is above board.

Glad to oblige.

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coineanachantaighePosted on5:27 pm - Oct 29, 2012


neepheid says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:22
There was no connotation other than total implausibility. There was only one form of racism in the Glasgow of the 50′s, and it had nothing to do with your skin colour.
————————————————————————–
We mustn’t get carried away with ourselves. There’s always been racism in Glasgow – it’s just that the religious bogitry was much louder or more open. Asian and (the fewer) African immigrants suffered racism – it may have not been as open and widespread as in certain English cities but it was there.

And regardless that things may have improved today it still exists. If you don’t believe me just ask any of your friends of Asian/African descent. We are quite right to focus on the bogitry aspect because it played/plays such a big part in Scottish football. But we mustn’t pretend that racism doesn’t/didn’t exist.

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on5:27 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Regarding the reported sitting with Lord Hodge 31 October as to the ending of the administration of Rangers Football Club Ltd (in administration).

I cannot see anything scheduled in for Lord Hodge on 31 October that would match that appearance before him:

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rolls/supreme/lists/r121029_046.htm

Am I looking in the wrong place? Or is it the case that Lord Hodge is not going to sit on 31 October to consider the release from administration of RFC(IA)?

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Lord WobblyPosted on5:38 pm - Oct 29, 2012


StevieBC says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:59
3 0 Rate This
iceman63 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:09
… we are deep in the swirling vortex of the rabbit hole – with no obvious way out…
================================================
I am looking at a slightly different swirling vortex out of the
windows of my 30th floor flat: Hurricane Sandy.
And Sod’s Law means that the FTT result will probably be released this week – when there will be widespread power outages here – and I won’t be able to access this site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t think you’ll miss anything. I suspect we will also see widespread outrage.

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neveroffsidePosted on5:47 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Respect to Gordon Waddell in yesterday’s Sunday Mail. He slapped down Charles Green over both the share issue and the Adams money going to the creditors pot.
Michael Grant in The Herald today does a similar job over the share issue at Ibrox and Tynecastle……

….I could be wrong but the media might just be catching up and are trying to avoid getting it wrong again…..?

on a seperate point – we were assured that when the First Minister intervened with HMRC over the Rangers Tax Case it was something he would do/does regularly for any Scottish company to protect jobs….. I trust therefore that he has phoned HMRC on behalf of Hearts and told them to go easy?

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on5:48 pm - Oct 29, 2012


The Scottish Football Museum’s feature of RFC is most welcome and should be a permanent fixture. As an education to future generations on the consequences of hubris (amongst other things), it should be entitled “Rangers FC – A Warning From History”. Those running our game should be made to view it frequently.

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paulsatimPosted on6:19 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Latest from Paul McConville blog……………..

Which Company Is Charles Green Floating? Why No SH01 Lodged Re the 22 Million Shares?
In which I ponder –

the mystery of what Mr Green is selling
the likely structure of the sale
how likely will Rangers fans be to buy shares in the company which owns the company which owns the football club
the new Rangers owner having as bad luck with official forms as his predecessor, Mr Whyte

Full article here, http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/which-company-is-charles-green-floating-why-no-sh01-lodged-re-the-22-million-shares/

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yemaundreeyerweirdPosted on6:35 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Regarding Charles’s many recent public pronouncements on various aspects of his new club, Scottish football and the virtues and experience of the person formerly known as Mr Green, I came across an interesting explanation in a review of a book called “Pierce’s Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free” in which the reviewer refers to

“what Pierce calls the three great premises of idiot America.

First premise: “Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units.”
Second premise: “Anything can be true if somebody says it loudly enough.”
Third premise: “Fact is that which enough people believe.”

The reviewer also states that the “media help gullibility along by adhering” to these premises. Interesting.

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angus1983Posted on6:44 pm - Oct 29, 2012


arabest1 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:19
2 2 i
Rate This
RM back up and muck spreading!
——

Not here, it isn’t.

Banana boats … my friend google tells me this was a euphemism used for the sewage sludge boats that used to go up and down the Clyde. Relevant somehow, I wonder?

Maybe the phrase was in use before them? I don’t know.

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john clarkePosted on6:49 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 17:27

‘I cannot see anything scheduled in for Lord Hodge on 31 October that would match that appearance before him:..’

—-
I meant to ask some days ago, where did that report about LH sitting on 31st come from?

As you say, there’s been no hint of it in the rolls of Court.

For me, it is in a sense more interesting than the FTTT decision, and I would not want to miss being in court on the day.

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john clarkePosted on6:55 pm - Oct 29, 2012


StevieBC says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:59

‘..I am looking at a slightly different swirling vortex out of the
windows of my 30th floor flat: Hurricane Sandy…’
—-
I hope the least of your worries is not being able to access the site!!
As the man on the news said, stay away frae the windaes while the wind’s blawin’.

He didn’t say it like that, of course ( he was an NBC man,or maybe the mayor of NY!).

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:17 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:44

Apologies for the long post.
—————————————————
Absolutely no need. Worthy of being a blog post.

Only thing I might … not disagree with but perhaps, amend is that I think the Rangers story is one of the biggest Football stories ever to hit the UK not just Scotland. Yet despite Rangers being along with Celtic the only really well known Scottish club down south, it’s hardly caused a ripple, only AT showing any real interest.

Since I don’t believe too-good-to-hurry’s influence doesn’t stretch that far I can only assume that we are seen as such an unimportant part of the country it’s not worth reporting on. I’ve only seen the odd article, sometimes uninformed, usually hidden away in some corner, otherwise unreported. I consider that a bit of a disgrace and an insult.

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calumcrofterPosted on7:17 pm - Oct 29, 2012


chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:36
7 1 Rate This
torrejohnbhoy says:

Monday, October 29, 2012 at 16:19

Well one bear’s convinced.From Rangers Rumours:

Charles Green was on with keys & Gray this morning.
Says there is no chance of this ever happening, in fact he came across rather well in everything he was asked.
This guy is the real deal & honest as the day is long we have the right man in charge, get behind him and the team.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sound like PR team have been busy

– The PR team is less interested in derailing TSFM than it is committed to influencing the thinking of blogs like RR and RM. Planting propaganda on these blogs will generate a more satisfactory response than an attack on the likes of TSFM.

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on7:20 pm - Oct 29, 2012


john clarke says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 18:49

I believe that Mark Daley confirmed that date on Newsnight Scotland when he was discussing the TGEF recordings.

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twopandaPosted on7:23 pm - Oct 29, 2012


18.05pm Monday 29 October
Green delivers little but soundbites but expects fans to deliver £20m
Herald Scotland-48 minutes ago

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-delivers-little-but-soundbites-but-expects-fans-to-deliver-20m.19263287

Story just vanished – goodness me…………

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on7:25 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:20

john clarke says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 18:49

I believe that Mark Daley confirmed that date on Newsnight Scotland when he was discussing the TGEF recordings.
============================================================
I don’t know how the CoS works.is there any chance a hearing could be kept quiet due to “Public Order” issues.

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on7:29 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Have tweeted Mark Daley to see if he has any idea on the date. Hopefully he will reply.

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Lord WobblyPosted on7:36 pm - Oct 29, 2012


twopanda says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:23
0 0 Rate This
18.05pm Monday 29 October
Green delivers little but soundbites but expects fans to deliver
£20m
Herald Scotland-48 minutes ago

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-delivers-
little-but-soundbites-but-expects-fans-to-deliver-20m.19263287

Story just vanished – goodness me…………
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still links from Newsnow

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Lord WobblyPosted on7:38 pm - Oct 29, 2012


There is brass neck and then there is Charles Green

Rangers chief Green: SPL stole our money

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8209151/

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angus1983Posted on8:02 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:36
twopanda says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:23

Story just vanished – goodness me…………
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still links from Newsnow
——

Original link gives me a blank page (though the headline comes up at the top of IE), and can’t see it on Newsnow.

Did anyone copy the text?

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neepheidPosted on8:04 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:38

There is brass neck and then there is Charles Green

Rangers chief Green: SPL stole our money
===========================
The last time I checked, theft was a criminal offence in this country, and you can’t usually make accusations of theft against anyone with impunity unless you can back it up. Has this “theft” been reported to the police? I thought not. And what exactly do the SPL intend doing to defend their good name (no siniggering at the back, please!)? Nothing whatsoever? I thought as much.

Now can anyone explain to me how Charles Green obtained this exemption from the laws and rules which govern what everyone else is allowed to say? This man can apparently say whatever he wants with no consequences whatsoever. It’s a funny wee country, Scotland.

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campsiejoePosted on8:24 pm - Oct 29, 2012


So Motormouth has been sharing his words of wisdom yet again with the peepil, and the rest of us poor mortals
I haven’t heard his latest PR piece yet, and judging by what has been said on here, I don’t know if I will even waste my time

Yet again, he is from what I can gather, saying that the game in Scotland is going to be reorganised, but only on terms that will be acceptable to Sevco with a gentle reminder to us mortals, that it has to be this way, as Sevco are the real power in the game

Not content with that, he has a fixation with the SPL, and the wrongs he perceives that it has done him, but apart from moaning continually about money that RFC(IA) were due, what else have they done to upset him ?
Go on Charlie, tell us what they have done, and while you are doing that, let us all know who is in your little black book and the reason they are there, or haven’t you got the balls for that

Frankly, I am sick to the back teeth of you, your ranting, and your threats, and the world will be a whole lot better when you and your mates disappear to wherever, to spend the money you will have persuaded the peepil to part with

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iamacantPosted on8:25 pm - Oct 29, 2012


MAYBE Charles Green is right and there really has been what amounts to a stampede of Rangers supporters rushing towards him with their wallets open, desperate to buy into the share flotation the club is about to launch.

Certainly, the figures claimed by the chief executive so far have beggared belief. Around 8000 potential investors have declared their interest, he’s said. Somewhere between £15m and £17m will be invested if they all cough up what they’ve said they will.

If all that dough really does flood into Ibrox, Green will be in demand for lectures to Harvard Business School. Surely there would never have been a newcomer who milked so much money out of a set of supporters while giving so little of himself away.

“I don’t care what people think about Charles Green or what the media think about Charles Green, because it’s all based on ignorance and not knowing me,” he said in an interview only last week. Well, exactly. Neither Rangers fans nor most of the rest of us can claim to know Green yet. Nor can those thousands of supposed investors possibly be sure of what they’re putting their money into.

Anecdotal evidence suggests an ongoing and entirely sensible caution towards Green, which doesn’t quite square with the impression of unbridled enthusiasm presented by the man himself. There’s a difference between buying a season ticket, as 36,000 have done for the guarantee of watching their team, and plunging a required minimum of £500 into shares.

Only six months ago no-one had heard of Green. For the last three of those he’s assiduously pushed all the right buttons to get the majority of Rangers supporters onside. Even those who are reluctant or unwilling to get involved in the share issue tend to like him, but they’re wary, and understandably so. Many would be far more comfortable about buying into Green in a year or so. If ever there was a set of fans who have been burned, manipulated, deceived and exploited, it’s the Rangers support.

Green has often boasted that the club he runs is debt-free and that has always sounded crass towards those who helped oldco Rangers and lost hundreds, thousands or millions as a result of it. Among them, remember, were the 6050 Rangers supporters who paid between £1000 and £1650 for Club Deck debentures back in 1991 and saw their investment turn to ashes a few months ago. A lot of them, comfortable but not necessarily rich individuals, are exactly the sort of people Green will have to rely on in this share issue. It’s hard to believe there will be a queue of financial investors for a club with no prospect of making serious money any time soon.

Rangers have been here before. They launched rights issues in 2000 and 2004 and a particularly poor response for the latter was attributed to widespread dissatisfaction with how Murray was running the club (yes, even then). Not even nine-in-a-row, Laudrup, Gascoigne and a mountain of trophies counted for a great deal when Murray went out with the begging bowl eight years ago.

The ironic thing is that you can bet your life Green and his consortium demanded far more information and answers before they took control than they have made available to potential investors so far. When a prospectus is published some answers surely will be provided. Until then, there has been nowhere near the level of transparency any investor is entitled to expect.

Fans are being encouraged to buy into a company for which no accounts have ever been published. The identity of all of the company’s shareholders has never been revealed: apparently all of them will be listed in the prospectus, but then again they were supposedly going to be identified once the takeover was complete. There has been far too little time for anyone to make any judgment on how well, or otherwise, the company is being run.

What is the business plan? What, exactly, will any money raised now be used for, given that none of it will go on transfers? If it’s for working capital, why is that necessary in the infancy of a new company’s ownership? Fans are being asked to cough up £20m for a minority holding in a company which was bought in its entirety for just over a quarter of that five months ago.

Hearts don’t have any answers beyond going to their fans, either. Like Rangers, they will go out with a begging bowl just before Christmas. Rangers’ minimum investment is £500, Hearts’ £110, the latter effectively coming with an ultimatum that if the money doesn’t come in owner Vladimir Romanov cannot be held responsible for what might happen next.

The subtext of this is that two of the very biggest Scottish clubs cannot generate enough money on their own without going to the fans for it, fans who already commit via season tickets, the purchase of merchandise and even satellite television subscriptions. The well should be empty, yet the nagging worry of what might happen to their clubs if they don’t invest could result in a decent take-up of shares at both clubs.

But it cannot be stressed enough: if Green brings home anything like £15m barely five minutes after first walking into Ibrox, and without delivering anything beyond soundbites so far, supporters will have taken an astonishing leap of faith.

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CarucalPosted on8:46 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Herald article address has been changed. Available here

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/green-delivers-little-but-soundbites-but-expects-fans-to-deliver-20m.19263287

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on8:54 pm - Oct 29, 2012


czm‏@czm3

@markdaly2 Are Duff & Phelps at CoS on 31 Oct? Nothing in Court of Session rolls to suggest appearance before Lord Hodge

Mark Daly‏@markdaly2

@czm3 that’s what his clerk told me last week. Will check tomorrow

Hopefully some firm news tomorrow of the date when the administrators appear before Lord Hodge.

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twopandaPosted on8:58 pm - Oct 29, 2012


So LH hearing with D+P this Wednesday, we`re told, ostensibly scheduled to ratify the admins resolutions [fees] end the administration and appoint BDO. But a small matter of COI to resolve – we`re told. So presence of DG + CW + HMRC may be required? Or perhaps a later LH sitting?

On the Timeline, our understanding has changed given the 31 May tape disclosures of DG trying to get a CW statement to allay HMRC COI concerns. So in the fortnight up to the `sale` in mid June did HMRC seek representation with LH leading to him requesting a COI report a week after the `sale`? If that’s so, the major creditor HMRC had concerns over D+P two weeks before the `sale`. Did this come from the BBC documentary or was something else at play? HMRCs concerns seem [from the second tape] to centre around D+P and any connection to TU `Noise` in May. But in March LH ruled on TU. The implication is that `TU` were `active` in some form two weeks before the `sale` which is logical given over 20m at stake and CW guarantees had not materialised post the administration. Using `TU` shorthand, – but we need to define `TU` as the `investors` behind TU and not the umbrella company – they could all act independently post the administration.

`TU` has been rejected as a unsecured creditor for voting rights? Why? `TU` must believe they have a security whilst D+P consider any security invalid – or that `TU` didn`t have a direct contract with RFC and the 20.3m didn`t go through RFC books? – Why? We don`t know as the 2011 accounts are unaudited. But if the 20.3m went “mistakenly” from CB to LBG, `TU` could just ask LBG very nicely if they could have it back please? In public though TU will only say they`ll go after CW – which makes no sense. What does fit is that `TU` could have submitted `allegations` and that comes back again to who[m] was developing the deal[s] with TU and the investors behind it.

If DG of MCR/D+P was negotiating with the bank what difference would it make if DG knew about the original TU set-up or not? Well, it doesn’t make any sense to negotiate with a bank if you don’t know what you’re principally negotiating with – so why negate it and why go to effort to avoid an email trail? So if DG was negotiating with the bank he should know perhaps more? A wee refresher on DG and his close acquaintance for years – a Mr D Muir of LBG once a member of the RFC board; a good article from the time:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/donald-muir-the-banks-inside-man-at-ibrox-has-questions-to-answer.16995762

So it’s getting more implausible to believe LBG didn’t know details about TU – so what? But HMRC do tax collecting – that`s their singular raison d`etre. Administrators can repeat can – no law saying they have to – investigate deals 3 years before any administration. D+P have elected not to go beyond the CW/CB `boundary` – in public anyway. HMRC may not be satisfied with that. LBG/MIH ducked the 75m [they thought 50m at the time] BTC and other RFC debts – but did that action using `TU` additionally cause the PAYE/NIC WTC fallout under CW? Certainly valid questions for HMRC to put to the admins.

But events turned quickly after LH COI Report requirement on Friday – by the Monday the position had morphed to a criminal investigation by the CO/PF. Therefore what could HMRC do with their COI concerns – they would all have to wait patiently. 4 months had passed, nothing developing on the criminal investigation – and HMRC decided enough was enough with this administration and pressed for the appointment of BDO. With their guys in they could redraw the boundaries of investigation and push on. They impel D+P for the petition in October.

So what can LH do? Well suspect in the first instance LH may – now – need more time to coral the parties to get to the bottom of this and that questioning may need co-ordination with the CO/PF? – But to stick to brass tack admin practicalities – and money seems to run things [the bit that hurts]

There needs to be enough left in the `pot` to cover BDO costs for an investigative liquidation – that we’re told – could last years. HMRC want this done. Plus on-going legal costs. There doesn’t seem to be much left in the `pot` after D+P get their claimed fees. I guess Liquidator costs area on a par to administrators. If say, and as a guess, liquidation was to last 3 years what might that cost including legal fees? D+P plus their legals was about 5m – for the bulk of it say 6 months. That’s 30m over 3 years. Poor benchmark so let’s cut that by 80% down to 6m to give some benefit to the doubt. I don’t think there’s enough in the pot even for that. The secured creditors would likely end up with less than zilch. Therefore in principle, if HMRC want their liquidators investigation and the secured creditors want some money there should be incentives to claw back some cash. The first questions might be why is so little left after administration and why has administration carried on 4 months after the `sale`.

Now if the COI is the gig and `me` not convinced by this 25m CB action. Yes – I think some of the `sale` details could be up for review and justification, which may happen sooner rather than later if/when DGs little taped foibles leads to a COI. Where that could `lead` I have no idea – so think this is now a step by step phase drawing out. This should get interesting.

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:15 pm - Oct 29, 2012


http://www.scotzine.com/2012/10/charles-green-the-spl-stole-our-money-or-did-they-imran-ahmed-disagrees/

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on9:16 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Don’t know if this is allowed but I have just read this:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/jqm4vq

Double standards or what?

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broadswordcallingdannybhoy

broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on9:19 pm - Oct 29, 2012


I wonder to what extent, if any, the Internet Bampots’ predictions of financial disaster are ensuring the success of the share issue.

CG isn’t in a position to say to the fans that if they don’t invest it’s Liquidation 2.

Could it be that The Plimsoll Prince effortlessly spouts so much easily disproved sphincter gravy because he suspects that Ra Peepil’s greatest fear and motivation for investing maybe that the Internet Bampots could be right?

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goosyPosted on9:21 pm - Oct 29, 2012


Green on talk sport
“Ticketus don’t have any involvement whatsoever. They were involved with Craig Whyte, which caused a problem, and previously to that DM used them when he was running the club.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well thats a bare faced lie that can be nailed down

Ticketus is the banner under which Ticketus2,LLP the “limited liability partnership” name for 20 little faceless cos banded together) invest solely in RFC STs in 2009
Ticketus( Not Ticketus2) also invests in STs for other football clubs and in pop concert tickets etc
But
Make no mistake
Ticketus2 investment in RFC in the Ticketus financial year ending July 2011 amounted to £27.5m out of total new investment of £44m ,Approx £20m of this extra RFC investment was made between April and June 2011
i.e.
In 2011 almost half the total new investment under the Ticketus banner was in Ticketus2 and was made by the same faceless cos (i.e faceless individuals) who had invested in RFC STs under SDM and A Johnston
So
Lets suppose Ticketus 2 got sidelined by Green and D&P in May 2011. Suppose no deal was done as Green claims
From an accountancy standpoint Octopus ought to have made provision for a loss in the Ticketus 2011- 2012 accounts for the year ending July2012
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
No such provision was made meaning Octopus believed as late as July 2012 that no provision was necessary for the Ticketus2 LLP
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And
On 14 March 2012 another Octopus co called Fern Trading took out a floating charge over the entire assets of Ticketus which in 2011 – 2012 amounted to £70m
This means that Ticketus can be liquidated (not because its bust, just a legal ploy) and all its £70m assets split up among the faceless cos which are under the Ticketus banner.This includes the 20 faceless cos under the Ticketus2 LLP who between them have £27.5m invested in buying RFC STs
Why liquidate?
Well it provides a nice bit of cover for Octopus It enables them to hide the return of capital to the 20 faceless men.They just say the general Ticketus operation is being replaced by some other investment product
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Aha you say
But there is no capital to hand back if the STs have no value
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Aha I say
If Green has paid off Ticketus with the equivalent amount of income perhaps free shares in Sevco assets or a cheap sale and leasback deal then the money is still there
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It will all come out in the wash

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fairshoutPosted on9:23 pm - Oct 29, 2012


monsieurbunny says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 19:17
8 1 i
Rate This
Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 15:44

Apologies for the long post.
—————————————————
Absolutely no need. Worthy of being a blog post.

Only thing I might … not disagree with but perhaps, amend is that I think the Rangers story is one of the biggest Football stories ever to hit the UK not just Scotland. Yet despite Rangers being along with Celtic the only really well known Scottish club down south, it’s hardly caused a ripple, only AT showing any real interest.

Since I don’t believe too-good-to-hurry’s influence doesn’t stretch that far I can only assume that we are seen as such an unimportant part of the country it’s not worth reporting on. I’ve only seen the odd article, sometimes uninformed, usually hidden away in some corner, otherwise unreported. I consider that a bit of a disgrace and an insult.

——————————————————————-
French rabbit lol

If our own counrty can’t report it, what chance have we got of other countries picking up on it and reporting it.

Journalism is not a strong point in Scotland and nothing to be proud of, unlike our heritage, passion, famous scots amongst many other things that make our counrty great,

What chance do you have when the mainstream media are bought so easily and dont have morals and integrity to report the “truth”

They dont actually ask any probing questions to get to the truth, they just quote drivel from people that do this counrty an injustice. They are to scared to go out and ask the real questions.

More power to the internet bampots, I say ! lets leave the dinosuars behind.

Excellent post humble pie btw!

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Gym TrainerPosted on9:26 pm - Oct 29, 2012


angus1983 says:
Monday, October 29, 2012 at 18:44
Banana boats … my friend google tells me this was a euphemism used for the sewage sludge boats that used to go up and down the Clyde. Relevant somehow, I wonder?

We used to refer to those as “Bovril Boats” as they went steaming (in more than one sense) out of the Tyne…

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:30 pm - Oct 29, 2012


PoliticalCeltictweet @edwardrice1 8m
Damning indictment of Murray in the FTT judgement against
MIH. Will it be enough for a criminal investigation into money
laundering?

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timtimPosted on9:34 pm - Oct 29, 2012


A sacrificial lamb is going to be needed
who better than Sir Succulent himself

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