I am privileged to have the chance to post a “guest” article on TSFM. As we get used to the lights being turned out, even temporarily, on RTC, we have a new forum for analysing the various issues which concern supporters of Scottish football.
It is undoubtedly the case that most of these issues involve the Rangers FC, either directly or indirectly, together with their interaction with the governing bodies of Scottish football.
One of the matters mentioned on “The List” page here is the Nimmo Smith report. I try to answer the question about what happened to it below, and note the relevance its apparent disappearance has for the soon to convene SPL Independent Commission.
I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to contribute posts for publication to TSFM.
RTC created from nothing a vibrant community looking at serious and complex issues of finance, law and corporate governance with a huge range of expertise, and not a little humour. TSFM can build on that legacy for the good of football in Scotland, and hopefully to the betterment of our media.
Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?
On 21st February 2012 the SFA announced that it had appointed retired judge Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an independent inquiry into Rangers FC. His panel comprised Professor Niall Lothian, Past President of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland; Bob Downes, former Director of BT and now Deputy Chairman of the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency, and Stewart Regan, CEO of the SFA.
The Inquiry was commissioned to investigate the potential breach of a number of SFA Articles of Association and to present its findings to the SFA Board within two weeks. Article 62.2 (q) of the SFA Articles of Association allows the SFA Board to appoint “a commission … to attend to and/or determine any matter(s) referred to it by the Board.”
Stewart Regan was quoted saying: “I am delighted Lord Nimmo Smith has agreed to Chair the Independent Inquiry. I am certain the experience contained within the panel will enable us to achieve more clarity on the situation regarding Rangers FC. There will be no further comment on the investigation until it is complete and its findings presented to the Board.”
One wonders about the use of the word “independent”, bearing in mind that one of the members was the CEO of the commissioning body, and on the Board which would consider it once prepared.
On 2nd March Mr Regan had more to say, although the investigation was not yet complete.
“We are now in the final stages of our independent inquiry into the situation concerning Rangers FC. The report by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith is expected to be completed next week and will go to a Special Board Meeting for consideration. It would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this stage in relation to the details gleaned from the inquiry, the potential contents of the report or any possible sanctions.
On 8th March the Special Board Meeting took place to consider the Nimmo Smith Report. Mr Regan commented:-
“I can confirm that the Scottish FA convened a Special Board Meeting at Hampden Park today to discuss the findings of the Independent Inquiry into Rangers FC, prepared by the Chair, The Right Honourable Lord William Nimmo Smith.
“Principally, it is the belief of the Board, taking into account the prima facie evidence presented today, that Mr Craig Whyte is not considered to be a Fit and Proper person to hold a position within Association Football.
“The report submitted by Lord Nimmo Smith, having been considered fully by the Board, highlights a number of other potential rule breaches by the club and its owner. The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.
As such, the report’s contents will not be published at this time. Nevertheless, I can confirm that the club is facing a charge of bringing the game into disrepute.”
On 24th April Mr Regan, following the verdict of the Judicial Panel, said the following:-
“It was entirely right that the original inquiry into Rangers FC and Craig Whyte was conducted independently and chaired by the Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith. These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal, who returned their verdict last night.”
That all seems clear. Lord Nimmo Smith, with the help of distinguished people like Mr Regan, carried out a quick but thorough investigation, and the results were put to the Judicial Panel for consideration.
However Gary Allan QC, who chaired the Panel, made the following comment on page 59 of the Panel’s written decision.
“It is remarkable that throughout the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Process there has been repeated, and regrettably wholly misconceived reference to the Report of Lord Nimmo Smith. For the avoidance of any doubt, the Judicial Panel hearing this disciplinary matter was at no time presented with the report, as evidence or otherwise, nor was it presented with any of its findings. No member of the Tribunal has had sight of it. The report was not mentioned by any party at any time in the course of the proceedings. The determinations which were reached, therefore, were reached entirely independently of any view at which any other person, however senior or eminent, may have arrived in fulfilment of his remit prior to the disciplinary hearing.”
How can the Chair of the Panel deny having seen a document which, according to one of the people who sat on the independent committee, was presented to them?
The answer is two-fold.
Firstly, at pages 2 to 3 of the Judicial Panel decision, the procedural nuts and bolts of the case are discussed:-
“The Tribunal … directed that … it would proceed to hear the evidence and submissions and proceed to Determinations in relation to the complaints against both Rangers FC and Mr Whyte.
The Tribunal … noted that … it would proceed on the basis that there was an absolute denial on (Mr Whyte’s) part of each element of the alleged breach of the rules in all its particulars.
The Tribunal directed that accordingly, and notwithstanding the fact that in its written responses Rangers FC in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules, … the Tribunal would require to establish a clear factual basis for its Determination of both any alleged breaches and, if applicable, any sanction against either or both Rangers FC or Mr Whyte. … The commission and the circumstances of the alleged breaches would therefore require to be established by the leading of evidence before the Tribunal …
A discussion in relation to the procedure to be adopted took place. It was agreed that the Compliance Officer Mr Lunny would lead evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material but would lead no witnesses, and would invite the Tribunal to accept the evidence in that form as provided in the Judicial Panel Protocol. Mr McLaughlin for Rangers FC, standing its position on the complaints contained in the written response previously submitted had neither issues with that proposal nor any other objection to the procedure which would be adopted. An opportunity would then be afforded to Rangers FC to lead evidence and make submissions as Mr McLaughlin on its behalf saw fit. Mr McLaughlin intimated that he would be likely to lead evidence from four witnesses previously intimated to the Compliance Officer and the Tribunal in terms of the Judicial Panel Protocol.”
At the hearing the positions of Rangers FC and of Mr Whyte were totally at odds. Mr Whyte did not appear nor lodge any substantive reply. He denied everything. On the other hand, Rangers FC “in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules”. As the Panel determined, they needed to be satisfied of the right verdict based on the evidence, but as the “prosecution case” was generally admitted, there was less rigour about this than if, for example, Mr Whyte had attended and denied the charges.
If Mr Whyte had appeared to deny the allegations, or if Rangers FC had disputed them, then evidence would have had to come from witnesses, who could have been cross-examined. In that event it would not have been sufficient to present the Nimmo Smith report, because, for all his experience, expertise and eminence, he is not guaranteed to be infallible.
One important principle in judicial and quasi-judicial procedure is the “Best Evidence rule”. If possible, original documents should be produced, rather than copies. Items of physical evidence should be brought to the court, rather than photographs of it. Witnesses should give evidence rather than having witness statements provided to the hearing.
This, I think, provides part of the explanation for the apparently mysterious absence of the Nimmo Smith Report.
The facts of the case had been admitted by the only party who attended the hearing, namely Rangers FC. Therefore Mr Lunny led “evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material”. The Panel made 108 separate “findings in fact” derived from the evidence he put forward and that of Rangers FC.
Where Lord Nimmo Smith’s committee had, for example, analysed documents and offered a conclusion upon their import, the documents would be evidence but His Lordship’s conclusion would not. Similarly where a witness had been interviewed by the Nimmo Smith commission, or provided a statement, the former judge’s views on that would not be evidence, but the witness statement would be.
Mr Lunny, the Compliance Officer, was acting as prosecutor. Effectively Lord Nimmo Smith played the role of a senior detective co-ordinating an investigation, but not actually obtaining any evidence himself. In a criminal trial, where the officer in charge of the investigation has taken no part in the accumulation of the evidence, then their relevance as a witness is very small at best. It is up to the judge or the jury to decide what the totality of evidence means as far as guilt or innocence is concerned.
Therefore whilst I am sure that Lord Nimmo Smith’s report was on Mr Lunny’s table as he went through his presentation, ticking off the relevant parts as he led the primary evidence, the Report itself was not “relevant” evidence for the Panel. It is likely that, in discussion prior to the hearing, Mr Lunny and the solicitor for Rangers FC agreed whether the Nimmo Smith report would be used or not.
Mr Regan said prior to the Panel sitting “The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.“ The presentation of the case of course was independent of him, and whilst the Report would have formed the basis for the charges laid against Rangers FC and Mr Whyte, it was not evidence itself, as agreed between the parties.
The second aspect which accords with this explanation is the precise phrase used by Mr Regan. He said, after the decision, “These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal.”
He did not say that the report was presented, rather that the findings were. As the findings would form the basis for the “charges” admitted by Rangers FC, then to that extent the Nimmo Smith report played a part in the proceedings.
This issue has relevance now for the forthcoming SPL proceedings involving player payments and registrations which might have broken the rules. To great clamour and consternation from Ibrox direction, Harper MacLeod, the widely respected and highly rated form of solicitors, have carried out an investigation for the SPL into Rangers FC.
Mr Green has made clear that, as far as possible, the case will be fought, and no past titles will be stripped if he can do anything about it. Expect calls for the Harper MacLeod report to be produced.
However, it is in exactly the same position as the Nimmo Smith report was, except this time the accused is not accepting guilt. In that case, the relevant documents and witnesses will need to attend for scrutiny and examination.
On the basis that the First Tier Tax Tribunal, which looked at different but related issues, took many days to conclude, it is highly likely that the SPL case will not have a quick conclusion.
As a final aside, I must compliment Mr Green. All of the media speculation about punishment in the event that the independent commission find guilt on the part of Rangers repeats the mantra from Ibrox that the most severe penalty, namely stripping of titles, is the aim of the SPL.
I suspect that the SPL might believe that too now, on the basis that something which the club and the fans oppose so vigorously must be a draconian penalty.
But, of all of the various penalties listed, stripping titles would not cost the Rangers FC a single penny. The issue has already seen the supporters unite behind their team. Even if the commission finds the case proven, and as a result Rangers lose some of their historic titles, this will be seen by the Ibrox faithful as yet more treachery by the football authorities. Bearing in mind that the SPL rules allow various penalties, including the power to expel the club, impose unlimited fines and place a registration embargo on the club, altering the history books is the best thing for Rangers as a business, rather than a penalty which affects them just now.
Posted by Paul McConville – www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/giant-pandas-revealed-as-new-owners-of-rangers-2012081438037
Does anyone have any proof that sevco have paid the debts that are due to the other Scottish football teams or are we just taking greens word for it and if they have, where they paid by the SFA from last season rangers prize money.
Jimbo milligan on August 14, 2012 at 17:59
7 0 Rate This
Why is chuck g so surprised the SPL knocked back his request to show their older games ?
They have just sold the rights to youtube have they not ??
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Older games? Must be Brechin and East Fife then!
Tic 6709 @ 19:24
BDO can’t unwind the sale on their own, although they may want to
They would have to go to court, state their case, and let the court decide
Another story I would take with a huge pinch of salt
Is Lord Hodge back from his holidays yet?.
timtim says:
August 14, 2012 at 19:38
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/giant-pandas-revealed-as-new-owners-of-rangers-2012081438037
I demand to know who leaked that timtim! – titles, names and the addresses of their zoos
campsiejoe@ 19.43pm. Cheers Campsie,I didn’t think it through ,It’s just that the guy has Never been wrong before.Wishful thinking i suppose. Still you never know.
Re Charlie green wanting to show old games. That’s a bit like hearts showing old meadowbank games. Two different teams, they don’t have the right to someone else’s home movies…….
They are not kidding me!
Remember this unanimous and staunch protest against……….LIQUIDATION! Cos even they know what that means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzmd6qfmCJE
Then they have the angry banner, telling us black will forthwith be known as white! Rangers then, Rangers now etc
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YdvRK2d9xeI/T2-lj40ksVI/AAAAAAAADrc/JWj_XcrkKfI/s1600/Rangers+Forever.jpg
Methinks they doth protest a little too much……………;)
twopanda bears says:
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how much did you paid for them ? lol!
Tic 6709 says:
August 14, 2012 at 19:24
I have never posted a rumour before, but, just got a text saying that BDO are going to declare the sale of the assets null &void.
Alas Tic6709 – a not credible text – pity. Yes LH first in line – then D+P Interim and /or Final Creditors Report to be submitted and signed off in the Court of Session, before Official appointment of BDO Liquidators. It`s possible they drafted out and internally discussed terms of reference or even a game plan but highly improbable that could leak out and no reason for it. I think their initial challenge will be the shredded evidence business which should provide hours of entertainment as various pilgrims submit to court their last five years financial records on the back of a postage stamp.
Arabest @ 20:02,
I believe that guy Orwell whose mug was on the RTC front page referred to the phenomenon as doublethink: “The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed”
Plughole says:
August 14, 2012 at 18:53
12th June 18:01
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/18410999
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1801
Charles Green has told Rangers TV: “It’s massively disappointing and I think to some extent we have been misled by HMRC.
“Duff and Phelps have consistently said to me that they were in dialogue with HMRC and that they hadn’t rejected the CVA route.
“Irrespective of what I was being told by HMRC, my own advisors at Deloitte have been in dialogue with them too.
“To see them today saying this is a ‘policy decision’ leaves me speechless. If that’s the case, is that a policy that was invented this week?
“If not, why weren’t we told that in February or March? We could have gone into a NewCo then and saved a huge amount of money and time.
“It would also have removed the false hope from Rangers fans. There is no possible way that this is better for creditors.”
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It seems Mr Green, by his own words, was involved long before the public perception that he arrived with a last minute bid.
The administrators weren’t far behind him
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1811
Administrator Paul Clark has been talking to BBC Scotland’s John Barnes: “We needed to have a fall-back plan and that is the sale of business and assets to the Charles Green consortium.
“That is now the process but it can’t happen until after the formal creditors vote has occurred on Thursday.
“There is no avenue for anyone else to come in at this stage.
“When we entered the agreement not only was his offer on a CVA basis the best offer but his second offer (the newco route) was the second best offer.
“From that point of view we are content that we have the best deal that we can get.”
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So Mr Green was plan A and plan B, and there was no option for someone else to come in and make a better offer for the assets, getting the maximum return for the creditors. Really, before the CVA was even formally rejected, no option for anyone else to buy the assets for a higher amount.
Then a bit of undue haste, to make sure things rushed through.
Oh and an assumption of an SPL place and all of the players just staying.
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1823
More from Paul Clark from Duff & Phelps on BBC’s Sportsound: “We’ll be looking to complete the deal on or very shortly after Thursday. Then it will be for Charles Green to make arrangements with the SPL about the on-going membership for the new company.
“Discussion have already taken place today.
“The position of Duff & Phelps is that we will remain as administrators probably for some more weeks. We will then get release from that position and the company will be passed into liquidation. But just to stress the club will have been sold and moved out of the company by then.
“The history of the club remains with the club, so the club moves from Rangers Plc into the new company and all of the titles and 140-year history will remain with the club. That was part of the two-stage process we set up with Charles Green all those weeks ago.
“Once the sale is concluded all of the players and staff will move over to the new company. The newco will honour existing contracts. It’s simply the name of their employer that changes.”
I have no proof, but I am convinced, and have been from very early on in this saga, that the Double Ds and Stooges Inc cooked up a deal, that RFC (IA) would be kept alive until the end of the season, in exchange for an SPL place for the new entity
Donkey was doing and saying everything to convince all of us, that the SPL was the only place for the spawn to go
As long as it was going to be a board decision, he had a degree of control
The minute the clubs decided they would take the decision, everything fell apart, resulting in the stitch up and rule breaking that even now is still going on
I really hope that Lord Hodge and BDO can uncover evidence that my theory is correct, and that this “fix” goes all the way back to February/March
twopanda bears &campsiejoe, Thanks lads,a valuable lesson learned,also for how the process really works. It’s hard being an idiot.
By the way, when I refer to the Double Ds, that includes Charlie Boy, who is also in this up to his neck
Tic 6709 says:
August 14, 2012 at 20:38
Not so mate – not at all – you presented a proposition and asked a valid question – we`re all together in this
Earlier today I posted correspondence between myself and the Scottish Government re governance of the SFA.
http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/whatever-happened-to-the-nimmo-smith-report/comment-page-18/#comments
I have since replied as follows.
Dear Mr X
Any reader of my letter and your reply would conclude that you did not read the original and so failed to address the main thrust of how the government could find ways to use its expertise of government to make an unaccountable organisation accountable.
However on reflection based on the reply, perhaps I over estimated the degree of government “expertise” that the Scottish Government is able to bring to bear, or perhaps the Government simple has no political stomach to address the issue of proper checks and balances in governance at the SFA, for reasons that escape me as a lifelong taxpayer.
I find this even more surprising when you mention the taxpayers money that the SFA get from the Scottish Government, the same SFA who failed to police one of their members to ensure they met their tax obligations. I would have thought that in these days of financial constraint handing taxpayers money over to an organisation that are accountable to no one would be a matter for investigation and an opportunity to set standards of governance at the receiving organisation.
I do not accept that fear of what UEFA or FIFA might do if the Government decided to intervene (I prefer facilitate) as a justifiable excuse for Government inaction. I do not remember either Mr Blatter or Mr Platini standing for election as an MSP and am surprised our government allows itself to be governed by unelected and so unaccountable external bodies. Serious constitutional problems there methinks.
The SFA receive support from the Scottish taxpayer and that means they are accountable to the tax payer, Their failure to prevent a massive loss to the taxpayer cannot be ignored at times when every pound is precious and the Scottish Government’s reluctance to ask questions is a derelection of duty to the tax payer.
I am sure I will not be the only voter seeing the “do nothing” policy of the existing Government in this way and lets say it is a close run thing between the SFA and Scottish Government in a two horse race for the Banana Republic trophy.
( I think the duty to the taxpayer angle is a pressure point if others wish to use it.)
campsiejoe says:
August 14, 2012 at 20:26
I’m with you on this. Doncaster did his best to draw attention away from the key issues rather than address them.
I also reckon the sale to CG was all part of the grand con and football is turning a blind eye to it all in the belief that without Rangers football in Scotland cannot survive.
Tic 6709 @ 20:38
As TPB said, you asked a question, and that in my book doesn’t make anyone, least of all you an idiot
Auldheid @ 20:53
Keeping the legacy of RFC (IA) alive via Sevco, goes far beyond questions of the survival of the game, or financial considerations
There are vested interests for whom the demise of RFC (IA)/Sevco, will under no circumstances be countenanced
Paul Clarke states on 12 June that “The history of the club remains with the club,so the club moves from Rangers Plc into the new company and all of the titles and 140 year old history will remain with the club. That was part of the two stage process we set up with Charles Green all those weeks ago.
“Once the sale is concluded all of the players and staff will move over to the new company.The newco will honour existing contracts. Its simply the name of their employer that changes”.
If as Paul Clarke says that its part of the process already agreed with Charles Green (all those weeks ago) in the unlikely event a CVA was not agreed (dont laugh) then why did CG have a dig at Dave King on the 8 June for telling creditors to reject a CVA.
Green told STV that Dave King as a Rangers fan should be in favour of a CVA as it retains all the history.
Something doesnt add up here Clarke says he had an agreement with Green weeks ago(prior to the CVA being rejected) so why would Green be talking about retaining the history on June 8
They are making it up as they go , but we need to keep at them if we are to get the truth in this sorry saga, they are trying to wear us down but we need to keep going and eventually we will get justice.
I am somewhat confused.
I was browsing the Scottish Football League website and amazingly Sevco are listed with the full history of oldco!
In your face lawbreaking at it’s best.
When are the authorities going to do the right thing in this best wee cheating country in the world.
chancer67 @ 21:28
Something doesn’t add up here is an understatement
No one wants anything to add up, because if it did the whole scam would be exposed
Have I got this right?
“RFC2012” (formerly “RFC” incorporated1899) are winners but not holders of 54 titles Holding Co is RFCG (formerly “Wavetower” incorporated 2011)
“RFC2012” reside at Ibrox for business purposes and all their correspondence should be addressed to Duff &Phelps Ibrox until further notice
And
“The Rangers” (formerly”Sevco” incorporated May 2012) are holders but not winners of 54 titles and have no holding Co
“The Rangers” results to date are one win for Sevco and one win and one draw for “The Rangers”
“The Rangers” reside at Ibrox for business purposes and all correspondence should be addressed to C Green,”The Rangers” Ibrox unless it relates to “RFC2012” in whch case it should be addressed to Duff & Phelps
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Anybody who wants to believe that “The Rangers” are simultaneously “Rangers2012” will have to pretend to themselves that neither Duff and Phelps nor BDO are acting on behalf of the Creditors of “RFC 2012”
This includes pretending that any correspondence from the FTT to “Rangers 2012” will somehow be addressed to C Green irrespective of whether “Rangers2012” are still in liquidation or have been liquidated when the FTT ruling is announced
,,,,,,,,,,,,
No doubt someone has advised the GPO where the relevant correspondence should be delivered
However
Anyone gullible enough to believe the above will have no problem buying STs
thewestlight says:
August 14, 2012 at 21:23
‘….Dear Stewart Regan…..’
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I hope you’ve taken out copyright on that email! Somebody in RM is bound to pick it up and use it for real ! 😉
highlandjaggy says:
August 14, 2012 at 19:47
9 0 Rate This
Is Lord Hodge back from his holidays yet?
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Back at work last week supposedly.
My final thought for the night
Does anyone know what the Double Ds have been up to since the CVA was rejected (apart from clocking up fees of course)
campsiejoe says:
August 14, 2012 at 22:38
2 0 Rate This
My final thought for the night
Does anyone know what the Double Ds have been up to since the CVA was rejected (apart from clocking up fees of course)
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Shredding
ExiledCelt says:
August 14, 2012 at 16:31
26 0 i
Rate This (Edit)
My own hope was that a new lean Rangers woudl have emerged in SFL3 cuting their cloths accordingly, giving youth a chance with someone (not meaning him but someone of that ilk) like Billy Stark bringing them up through the divisions. By cutting their cloth the ultra supremecists would have had to fall by the wayside (hard to be we are ra peepil when you are struggling) and the good Rangers fans (there are many on here as examples) could have taken back their club.
My fear is that it will come back worse than before – angry at being denied its “rightful” place at the top and wanting to even scores.
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EC
Time, I fear, for us all to ‘get real’. It seems there was never, ever going to be a chance of a ‘new’ RFC where the good guys won and a new model club was born ever coming to pass. The loudest voices were always going to win and in truth the decent ones are very much in a minority and are consequently not the loudest.
The sentiments expressed in your last para are already being vocalised -‘we’ve been kicked enough etc’ and in truth the future doesn’t look great against this backdrop. Sorry if this sounds a downbeat assessment but we’re reaching a point where idealism is being overtaken by realism. It ain’t pretty.
Now that Besiktas are going to FIFA over McGregor, will they now start asking questions of the SFA, or as we expect do nothing about this attempt by TRFC aided by the SFA extorting money from clubs, for players TRFC have nothing to do with.
campsiejoe says:
August 14, 2012 at 22:38
‘..Does anyone know what the Double Ds have been up to since the CVA was rejected …’
—–
Interesting question.
They are still ‘officers of the court’ as Administrators of RFC(IA). But I cannot think of what function they can now have.
They are obliged, I suppose, to hang about until formally discharged by the Court ( and might find themselves in due course having to hang around on criminal charges , who knows?).
But RFC(IA) no longer exists except as a legal fiction.The Administrators are collecting no revenues or paying any running costs.
They’re probably not even physically present in the Ibrox building, and if they are, they would be there only by the grace and favour of the owner of the premises-and paying rent!
They are probably also not even authorised to disburse any monies to the creditors of RFC(IA), from the sale price they received ,as Administrators, from CG.
So, I would imagine that they cannot still be able to rack up anything but notional fees as Administrators.
I think that they are very much yesterday’s men, busily trying to ensure that they are ready to meet Lord Hodge’s searching questions in a wee while, and desperate to get the hell out of Glasgow.
Their personal standing among their professional colleagues? Well, they’ll get plenty of nods and winks in the bar, as their colleagues marvel at how they made a mint for their company, and buggered everybody else up- the club, the directors, the tax man and other creditors, Scottish Football, the Blue Knights, the Shite knights, American truckers, Mr Ng, and, best of all, oor Chairlie Green, beautifully suckered into buying a huge feckin liability and rendered crazy by the experience.
Save the company? get the best deal for the creditors?
No way was that ever in their brief.
CW says:
August 14, 2012 at 00:12
rab says:
August 13, 2012 at 23:13
Rate This
Celticbhoy.
Do teams get their sunday names inscribed on the cup, eg, heart of midlothian or hearts.
If its the former then a question could be asked of the sfa and sfl if The Rangers will be inscribed as opposed to rangers.
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Rab,
It doesn’t matter. The famous Scottish Cup is going to look a right mess anyway as soon as The Engravers are ordered to score a horizontal line across some of the more recent engravings, with the word “Tainted/ Disqualified” in brackets at the end.
i.e. *-Rangers-* (Tainted/ Disqualified).
At the moment, it’s certainly been a sad old end to a once great club. The undignified way they still try to cling on to old glories is unedifying, aided of course by the MSM.
The damage they have done to the game in Scotland will be remembered for years to come. I’m sure a lot more skeletons will come out of the cupboard over time, but in the present time so many main characters have to look themselves in the mirror ! Obviously, they are not looking in the mirror, and are still playing their underhand games, and more importantly, GETTING AWAY WITH IT !
I think it is time to draw a line on the whole affair, have an Official Public Enquiry and drag the main culprits in front of said Official Public Enquiry, under oath of course !
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Sorry for reposting from 00:12 last night, but just have to reiterate that this story/ scandal/ fairytale/ fraud/ you name it/ etc (delete as appropriate) has just gone on for too long now.
It really is time for an Official Public Enquiry into what has been going on. As far as I can make out the story so far, Old RFC PLC is no more. Some new company has bought the assets and are trying to con the old support that they are still the same. Under the Stewardship of some guy called Charles Green, the new company’s Business Model seems to be something along the lines of :
“Tax Payers money has been cheated out of, but that’s ok, that was the previous lot that did it and ran away!
We are the new lot ! We never had anything to do with them, but it would be really nice if we kept the same Stadium and Training Ground. Oh, and it would also be really nice if we kept the same strips and history as well ! After all, it wasn’t us that done it ! Rangers are an institution to Scotland. I’ve just bought them for £2, and hope to bring back the former glories. How dare those authorities such as The SFA and SPL try and stop us. They say they have rules, but don’t they know who we are ! EXTERMINATE ! EXTERMINATE !”.
For the older readers amongst us, Mr Green reminds me a lot of “Davros” from an old Dr Who Series in the 70’s. Davros was in charge of the Daleks who liked to think they ruled the Universe. Unfortunately, Davros didn’t look like the rest of the Daleks, he only looked like half of one, but he had the power to tell the rest of The Daleks what to do and they followed his every word !
In reality, (i.e. in Rangers 2012 speak), Mr Green (Davros) has the power to tell the WATP (Daleks) that they are going to rule The Universe again.
Why does he have this power ?
Answer : Because Dr Who in 2012 is a big Scaredy-Cat, too scared to stand up to Davros. There where 3 potential Dr Who’s vying for the part of the character in 2012, not one of whom has stood up to the mark. The SFA, SPL and SFL all have fell short of the mark. The threat of Armageddon from Davros and his MSM Slaves must have put them off !
Seriously, though, isn’t it about time we had a proper Public Enquiry on this whole debacle. We are discussing Millions of Pounds of unpaid taxes here. Surely someone high up in Authority must be asking the same questions, and also wondering why the “Soap Opera” is still continuing ?
Before the Laughing Stock commonly known as Scottish Football becomes even funnier in the eyes of The World, would someone please in Authority come along and apply the proper rules to this Saga.
Perhaps The SFA could start the process ?
Philip José Farmer says:
August 14, 2012 at 20:17
Plughole says:
August 14, 2012 at 18:53
12th June 18:01
====================================
1801
Charles Green has told Rangers TV: “It’s massively disappointing and I think to some extent we have been misled by HMRC.
“Duff and Phelps have consistently said to me that they were in dialogue with HMRC and that they hadn’t rejected the CVA route.
“Irrespective of what I was being told by HMRC, my own advisors at Deloitte have been in dialogue with them too.”
=====================================
Can’t believe Duff & Phelps, Deloitte and even Charles Green did not know about HMRC’s policy on rejecting CVAs, It’s clearly set out in HMRC’s Helpsheet “Working with insolvency practitioners” where HMRC clearly say:
“Rejecting a voluntary arrangement:
We are also likely to reject a voluntary arrangement where there is evidence of:
• evasion of statutory liabilities or past association with contrived insolvency
• payment of other creditors whilst withholding sums due to the Crown.
• any proposal that requires sale of HMRC debt or does not provide cash dividends.
• failure to meet any obligations under a prior voluntary arrangement
• exclusion of creditors who are entitled to receive the same treatment as all others within their class
• a purchaser assuming responsibility for payment of some of the debtor’s debts in
consideration for the purchase of the debtor’s assets
• any proposal by any member of any organisation that requires debts owed to its members, to be paid in full, whether inside or outside of the arrangement or
before or after the completion of the arrangement when all other unsecured
creditors will become bound to accept a compromise of their debt. Here ‘members’ includes any prescribed associate(s) or other creditor(s) specified by the organisation.”
RFC(IA) fall down on several of the above but could the SFA have torpedoed RFC(IA) on the last bullet point by introducing or disclosing the intention to introduce the football creditors must be paid condition? Any views on this.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/vas-factsheet.pdf
“Armageddon” had a good months run
MSM “stripping titles” had a good three weeks to milk
Ashley`s “investment” didn`t kid anyone – even white bricks – and lasted less than a week
“Agenda against us” will probably get no further than a couple of tales from the tabs tomorrow at best
It`s getting pretty lame this nonsense now
What next MSM? Blimey!
I know some of the good fans are going to the games in an attempt to re-claim their club but I’ve warned them that they will have to fight for it. And I really mean fight for it.
The hard core have nowhere left to run. This is their last bastion of a bygone era where they believed that they were something apart. The fact that they were normal working class folk, like everyone else, seems to have completely passed them by.
They are bound to the deadco by same ideology that brought it crashing down.
They cannot change.
They will not change.
They will fight to preserve it and align themselves behind anyone who tells them what they want to hear regardless of the fact that the very same person said exactly the opposite two months ago.
Some fans had shares in the deadco. They became worthless when the CVA failed. Some are now in the process of wanting to buy shares in the newco.
Surely if it was the same club their original shares would still be worth something.
Some wise man once said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
Even if Chas Green does have a share issue do the fans really think that the money is going to go into the club or is it going to pay back his initial purchase costs.
Remember he did not buy the club he simply loaned the money and he, and his investors, want paid back. So where is that money coming from.
It’s going to come either from season tickets, the share issue, or more likely a bit of both.
So where do the day to day running costs for the club come from. Is it the pay at the gate customers?
If it is then the sums don’t add up and, as bad as they have been this time, I can’t see the SFA/SFL being so lenient the next time there is an insolvency event. I don’t think even they will do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome.
No idea of the tweeters reliability, but interesting comment for a so called reliable source:
Steven @StevenOliver74
@dunleavy138 @ShaunGibson1888 no idea if they have been paid or not. I just know that bills are not being paid by Green.
The Charles Green video on STV website is hilarious. He is talking absolute waffle to people buying tickets to watch the RFC Tribute Act, telling them what they want to hear and they just smile and nod. Not long ago the man wasn’t able to walk the streets in Scotland and was taking police advice on protection. At least he will know the procedure when he does a runner with the loot.
john clarke says:August 14, 2012 at 23:15.
But RFC(IA) no longer exists except as a legal fiction.The Administrators are collecting no revenues or paying any running costs.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John – I wonder if you can answer a question I posed yesterday. Who collects any money still due to RFC(ia) ? i.e. transfer fees owed to Rangers – said to be over £3M in May (providing appearances/caps etc etc)
I am scared that the money will go to Sevco when it should be going to the creditors pot – which I presumed was still being administered by Duff & Phelps? or is BDO now in charge of that money?
People earlier were also asking how can The Rangers afford so many staff & players – in my opinion Mr Green is spending RFC(ia) money – it is potentially an even bigger scandal – but until the BDO get in how can we stop this happening?
your advise appreciated sir!
Thereek says:
August 14, 2012 at 22:50
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The loudest voices were always going to win and in truth the decent ones are very much in a minority and are consequently not the loudest.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thereek
I see where you are coming from
Although
A noisy minority are always louder than a silent majority And when you think about it
Decent Bears are by far in the majority
They`re not hard to find
He`s the man next door or your best pal or your cousin or your son in law or your pool partner
It`s his very decency that inhibits him from crossing swords with the lunatics they and we despise
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yes
They also want to believe their club is alive But that doesn`t mean they somehow support the Loonies
Who wouldn`t be in denial in their situation?
I’ve just seen that the Helsinborg v Celtic game is NOT on STV next week – but is in fact on ITV1 and is therefore being shown live across the UK. But wait a minute – that’s an audience of up to 65million people seeing Celtic- but I thought our game was facing Armageddon and no tv interest? Celtic’s shirt sponsors will be furious at all this coverage when they were told our game needed Rangers….
http://www.itv.com/tvguide/
Ordinary Fan says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:30
Rate This
The Charles Green video on STV website is hilarious. He is talking absolute waffle to people buying tickets to watch the RFC Tribute Act, telling them what they want to hear and they just smile and nod. Not long ago the man wasn’t able to walk the streets in Scotland and was taking police advice on protection. At least he will know the procedure when he does a runner with the loot.
——————————————————————————————————————————-
Ordinary Fan,
Davros’s Sat Nav for the escape journey south was probably pre-programmed some 2 months ago. The Loot will have already been salted away in some obscure account, so if Davros is caught on the way back Down South, speeding or some other minor offence, then no incriminating evidence will be found on him. A search would probably only find £2 and a spare pair of underpants.
A bit of Psychology……..
Kesslers 5 stages of grief
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
I Suggest applying these to what is going on with Genuine TRFC fans and CG.
justshatered says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:22
‘….I can’t see the SFA/SFL being so lenient the next time there is an insolvency event…’
—–
They were never lenient before.
They have been lenient in this case only because it was “RFC the ideology” that had to be saved, come hell or high water.
The attempt to do so was deceitfully dressed up as reflecting an ‘anxiety for the economic future of Scottish Football’
To the great credit of the bulk of Scottish Football, this was exposed as a myth.
But, left to their own devices, the SFA would/will try to save the dying ‘The Rangers’ on the same specious grounds ( And there is no doubt in my mind that ‘The Rangers’ are already a dead- dinosaur- walking that all the talking-up cannot save).
And, of course, the SFA would be supported in so trying to save them by the same MSM.
That is at the very heart of the matter: the historic and continuing protection afforded to, and the defence of, a vile ideology and ethos by a still powerful clique of senior people in the SFA.
Simples.
Ordinary Fan says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:30
The Charles Green video on STV website is hilarious. ………………..
——————————————-
It sure was. It reminded me of the old TV show, The Comedians.
Notice of Special Meeting
To be held in the Dean Suite of the Park Hotel
On Saturday the 18th of August 2012 at 5:15 pm
Community ownership has always been an objective of the Kilmarnock Supporters’ Society Ltd.
It has become clear that this must be the main focus of the Trust’s efforts for the foreseeable future. The events in Scottish football over the course of last season have proven that community ownership is the best, if not the only way forward, for clubs like ours.
Our primary objective therefore will now be to raise the finance required to bring Kilmarnock Football Club into community ownership.
The only way we can control the destiny of our club is to have the majority say on how it is run.
This meeting has been called to discuss this course of action with Trust members – no other business will be entered into at this time.
http://www.killietrust.org/index.php?id=news&item=154
Charlie’s performance on STV news was amazing. Comedy gold. Like a scene from Last of the Summer Wine. Nora Batty? Nah, Charles Batty. Emerdale will be on the phone offering a part behind the bar at the woolpack.
itsagoal! says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:31
‘..Who collects any money still due to RFC(ia) ? ‘
—-
itsagoal, I don’t know for sure, but there are other posters with experience in these matters who might give us a sound view.
Personally, I expect that ,legally, any monies due to RFC(IA) would have to go into the creditors’ pot.
How the ‘payer’ makes out any cheque could present a difficulty. especailly as BDO would appear not actually to be legally in charge at the moment..
But I suspect that not even CG would try to snaffle any monies that seemed clearly to relate to RFC(IA) rather than Sevco/ The rangers. He knows that when BDO get to work, they will, if necessary, question anybody that still appears to owe money to RFC(IA) , and if they can prove they sent a payment to, say, CG esquire, that hasn’t reached RFC(IA)’s books, they will in turn ask him politely where the money is.
So there’s no real danger that money that ought properly to go to creditors will be siphoned off by CG or his new club.
In practice, since D&P and BDO are ‘officers of the court’, I think ( but I’d love to know for sure) that BDO are already in action, by agreement, trying to get a handle on things.
I hope so, at least.
Thereek
Time, I fear, for us all to ‘get real’. It seems there was never, ever going to be a chance of a ‘new’ RFC where the good guys won and a new model club was born ever coming to pass. The loudest voices were always going to win and in truth the decent ones are very much in a minority and are consequently not the loudest.
The sentiments expressed in your last para are already being vocalised -’we’ve been kicked enough etc’ and in truth the future doesn’t look great against this backdrop. Sorry if this sounds a downbeat assessment but we’re reaching a point where idealism is being overtaken by realism. It ain’t pretty.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Once I got to an age where I started to form my own opinions and morals going to Ibrox became a bit tricky and I was happy to walk away a few years ago. what annoyed me about the ex club I used to support. It’s almost impossible to know where to start….
The selfishness, sense of entitlement, aggressive nature on and off the park, the songs and accompanying nonsense, the short sighted cheque book transfer policy, lack of youth development, alcohol sponsor on the jersey despite the chronic alcohol problems in the west of Scotland….
It’s some list and a hard one to type. But I disagree when you say the decent ones are very much in the minority. As a former season ticket holder of the former club I know there is a silent majority of fans who are decent and not interested in the unsavoury stuff because they do not allow that sort of thing to define the club for them. Its possible to be a fan whilst not getting involved with all the things you disagree with. My rather annoying level of self righteousness meant it wasn’t possible for me. Unfortunately empty vessels make the loudest noises so someone like John Brown ranting like a lunatic gets more attention than the sensible ones who get no representation whatsoever.
I suppose I wanted to write that there is more good fans than bad. If they get themselves organised they might be able to save their club.
http://www.afc.co.uk/articles/20120814/aberdeen-2-1-manchester-united-xi_2212158_2882864
Sounds like it was a decent game and great to hear that Darren Fletcher got a run out. A fabulous tribute to Neil Simpson and long overdue. Well done to all concerned.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:29
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It wouldn’t surprise me to find that the game only broke even and East Fife only got paid their expenses…
Having worked in England for the last 27 years including spells within professional football…I’ve been aware of how clubs have been creative in cup games to make sure they extract as much as possible before they are obliged to share the remaining profit…I’ve also seen it work the other way…where the away team have been creative with their expenses…
Anyone know when Strathclydes finest are due to be paid?
Craig Levein is being led and instructed to do as he is told by the SFA. How can he say the 3rd division players cant be picked for national duty only to renage and call up Black ? As if scottish football is not in enough worldwide laughing stock mode.
I really fear for the future of the Scottish game, it is being led by utter incompetents only interested in boosting their own cv, bonus, agendas etc !
Really unbelievable that an ex rangers director is still sitting in a cosy wee office no doubt waxing lyrical to his subserviant buddy Regan ! Makes you want to down tools and give up on the scottish game all together.
incredibleadamspark says:
August 15, 2012 at 00:31
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’ve known lots of Rangers fans down the years. I could count the bad ones on one hand.
The question is, if the decent fans are in the majority, why do they allow the knuckledraggers to set the agenda?
Why not try to do something about it?
Lord Wobbly
I’ve known lots of Rangers fans down the years. I could count the bad ones on one hand.
The question is, if the decent fans are in the majority, why do they allow the knuckledraggers to set the agenda?
Why not try to do something about it?
————————————————————————————————————————-
I don’t know the answer to that mate. Maybe the club is the most important thing to the knuckledraggers so they get a bit aggressive about it if anyone challenges them.
Apologies Stunney;
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/scotland-v-australia-craig-levein-vents-his-frustration-as-ian-black-selection-dominates-scots-agenda-1-2467246
Briggsbhoy,
(Your email is bouncing back)
Search engine optimisation is a dark art. If you or anyone else has any suggestions, I’d be glad to hear of them.
CE’s link:
Craig Levein vents his frustration as Ian Black selection dominates Scots agenda…
Well Mr Levein, if you didn’t want fallout from such an obviously contentious selection, maybe you should have picked someone else, a promising youngster perhaps. This really is yet anotther faux-pas from the manager.
Mr Levein, an international manager, even our one, only really gets so many chances to f@@k things up before he has to go. I fear this was another one.
incredibleadamspark says:
August 15, 2012 at 00:48
Lord Wobbly
I’ve known lots of Rangers fans down the years. I could count the bad ones on one hand.
The question is, if the decent fans are in the majority, why do they allow the knuckledraggers to set the agenda?
Why not try to do something about it?
————————————————————————————————————————-
I don’t know the answer to that mate. Maybe the club is the most important thing to the knuckledraggers so they get a bit aggressive about it if anyone challenges them.
———————————————————————————
I think that may well be the case.
I was thinking about taking my son (age 7) to Ibrox this season (30 years since I was last there) on the off chance that things have changed but, sadly, I think for a lot of the support things have only changed in as much that they are more galvanised towards their hatred of everyone else.
“Everyone hates us, and we don’t care”.
Why would you not care?
I think we will follow out Junior team for another few years, to see how things pan out.
Are we approaching the end game in this Fiasco?
Things look like falling into place sooner rather than later. Since the beginning, Blame has been passed around like a “Hot Tottie”. Whyte/White got it, Murray, The Duffers, Ticketus, The SFA, SPL,SFL, Peter Lawell, All have been accused at some point of causing the demise of the Deceased. And when Green arrived on the scene he was met with total scepticism, he was after all an Asset stripper. In for a quick buck, to hell with the consequences and out again. My opinion on that has never altered.
He has however won over a surprising number of “Fans”, with his no nonsense approach, his attacks on the SFA Hierarchy, the other SPL clubs who he described as bigots, all stirring stuff. He has played the audience brilliantly. He wants the “Super”one on a long term contract. Rumours tonight suggest he is launching an away jersey with the appealing colour Or@nge included. He has signed a few players, One of them a well known Caber tosser has been suddenly transformed into an Internationalist by that famous Poacher turned Gamekeeper Mr Craig Levien. Thirty thousand approx have now committed to his season tickets, either by cash, cheque, or the “Continuous credit facility”. Now that is newfound loyalty for The Bootleg club.
But enough of the Panto games, back to the end game. What happens if/when BDO nullify the whole deal on the grounds of collusion between the Duffers and Charlie boy? He gets his money back (if he Actually paid it), Sevco enter Limbo. Charlie being the Registered Director of Sevco, has approx £9m of Season ticket money, 7or 8 saleable assets in the form of Players, one of whom remember has just been called up on international duty. And where will the Blame land this time? The Liquidators of course!! Meanwhile the “Fans” have been ripped off yet again. Charles will say “The big Boys did it” ………..As he sets the Sat Nav for London, and the next deal.
And that’s why his decision to step down – and for good this time – might just be the smartest one he’s ever made. He’s done his time, he’s given his all, he’s been king of the hill and he’s been in the stocks. And now he’s had enough.
It will be said, of course, that he was forced by the bank to stand down and while there is no doubt Rangers and Murray’s business empire are under closer scrutiny than ever before, the bank didn’t order change.
The bank’s pressure and demands may have had an influence but Murray looked at another championship flag, a place in the Champions League and decided the time was right.
Good for him because he is due the break. He still believes himself to be strong as an ox but we all have our limits and the great secret is to recognise when you have overstepped the mark.
It’s about knowing when the reservoirs of energy, adrenalin, and desire are dangerously low and Murray must have been drying up. He gave more of himself to Rangers than was wise and is absolutely correct to want time for himself.
Some will say he’s hiding from this financial torrent which is washing away businesses by the day but they do not know Murray. He doesn’t hide, as he demonstrated five years ago when he underwrote the shares issue and more recently when he made his stance against the bigots who brought shame on Rangers.
The one thing his critics level at him repeatedly is the notion that singlehandedly he ruined Rangers’ finances by allowing managers to indulge themselves in the transfer market.
Reckless One particularly malicious individual accused him of financial vandalism but Murray’s only real crime was to believe too much in his team leaders. He allowed them to manage their way but if he was such a reckless spendthrift all these years then why is it Rangers are still alive and about to reduce their debt to pounds 20m? Other clubs, lauded for their prudence, haven’t been able to race away from Rangers, which is strange given the vast amounts Murray’s critics claim he has squandered to feed his own ego.
You have to wonder if these people have merely been working to their own twisted agendas. Maybe Murray refused them an interview or forgot to return a call.Who knows and frankly, who cares? Murray certainly won’t because his place in the history of Rangers and of Scottish football is secured because as well as making the Ibrox club believe they could be bigger and better and financing the winning of 32 trophies he also gave the wider game impetus.
It was he, Graeme Souness and then Walter Smith who reversed the flow of Scottish talent to England.
Without Murray and his loftier notions English internationalists wouldn’t have come here and it was pleasant for all of us to bask in the knowledge that such a small league could entice big names.
But Murray also forced other clubs to change. By pushing Rangers to reach beyond their boundaries, Celtic and the others had to follow. Scottish football was vibrant and colourful for a spell but again, some will argue it was Murray who caused clubs to spend beyond their means and set in motion the process that took the game close to bankruptcy.
That’s not true either because Rangers, with Murray’s spending power, could afford the gamble while the harsh truth is the others could not. They didn’t have to follow like sheep and they shouldn’t have been so free with their money but no one can deny Murray gave the game a new dimension, ambition and edge.
Now, though, it is over and the man needs the break. He should have stayed away last time but he’s done it now and the really important things in his life, like his family, can benefit.
With them he can recharge and discover that although it almost consumed him, in the end there is more to life then Rangers. He deserves the chance to live his life on his own terms without having to worry about what fans or the media think.
The game has evolved and although he kept pace for most of the time he has taken his final bow. He left the arena just as he’d entered it 20 long years ago. In a blaze of publicity, which was absolutely typical of him, but this time it is over.
Guess Who?
I think CG could make a fortune out of this venture as the MSM seem to be reporting that fans are queueing round the block to buy season tickets before every game.
john clarke says:
August 12, 2012 at 14:10
“HMRC’s statement is one that they have had to make many, many times, as they watch powerlessly as the shysters shaft the community.”
Hi John, just catching up with posts.
Murray hardly shafted the community of Bears as he delivered umpteen trophies for them.
HMRC know what has been going on at Ibrox for at least 10 years and yet encouraged Sevco to take control of the “club” and acted as the midwife to the birth of a phoenix in order to appease a set of fans who could easily be seen as the main beneficiaries of past financial chicanery.
It also has to be remembered that only fan power prevented the phoenix club emerging debt free in the SPL.
HMRC even got BDO to join in the act.
BDO stated: “It’s important to understand that the appointment of liquidators will not mean the end of football at Ibrox – only the end of the company that ran the club.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18426943
I contend that HMRC’s statement, along with BDO’s, is not a normal one made “many, many times”.
You also state that “HMRC acted strictly within their legal powers.”
While this is true, I have to ask why HMRC and BDO felt compelled to go out of their way to assure Rangers fans that the incorporated legal entity about to be liquidated was not the club.
Instead, HMRC and BDO helped propagate the myth that the “club” is an ethereal body impervious to the mundane reality of company law.
Why?
You also say that the SFA should properly be the target of our rage and indignation.
However, I still maintain the SFA, SPL and SFL have taken their lead from HMRC’s statements regarding the phoenix.
Footballing bodies would have been more circumspect about embracing the newco as the oldco if HMRC had simply stated: “A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years. A CVA would restrict the scope of such action.”
Unlike you, I cannot absolve HMRC of any blame.
As I have said previously, it appears that HMRC either took their eye off the ball or scored a spectacular own goal.
I suspect it was a deliberate own goal executed under political pressure.
I am often wrong and while my post offers a critique of your analysis I hope you appreciate it isn’t an attack.
John Clarke says:
August 14 2012 at 16:54
———————————–
Way back at the start when people like E-Tims and others were predicting the dawn raiding arrival of Hector and the demise of Them, I was still active on the far left. Being a really boring b*****d I was aware of the many hundred financial crises the world had suffered since the early seventies as opposed to the few between the years of 1945-73. And it is an unpalatable fact that wages have generally stagnated since the Seventies while that lot upstairs have accumulated wealth like never before.
Most of you will be aware of Lehman and Merrill Lynch and their part in the most recent collapse. Unbelievably there is a fight going on in Wall St just now to see who will replace them.
The politicians(no laughing at the back)in our country, whatever happens to be your wrapper of choice, all believe in this system and would court these villians in a heartbeat.
With that in mind, what makes any of you think that they’ll suddenly leave their poisoned yesteryear thinking and do the right thing about Them?
As for these supposed good guys amongst Them. That observation always makes me think of that old Glasgow saying, “Dead decent guy”.
I thought Chewin’ The Fat had put that particular myth to bed with the skit; Good Guy – W**k! Obviously not.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/francisco-sandaza-claims-rangers-have-every-chance-of-winning-the-quadruple-1-2467278
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-close-in-on-30-000-season-ticket-sales-1-2466926
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/levein-irritated-by-furore-over-blacks-call-up.18592750
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-rangers-still-have-battles-to-be-won.18590254
1. I take it Dundee United haven’t gone bankrupt?
2. Could the fans of Deid Dinosaurs FC/Sevcogers be standing in line for tickets because their club(s) haven’t got direct debit arrangements properly sorted out yet?
stunney says:
August 15, 2012 at 04:12
As far as I can make out there is no direct debits – it is either cash, cheque or the continuous credit card charge that a poster warned against last week. Only if paying in full on credit card can you do over phone or internet. If you want any other method you have to go to the ticket office.
With all the discussion about HRMC and BDO making remarks about the need for a football club to continue, I agree this is unprecidented.
Where was the concern for the folks who liked to do the pick n’mix at Woolies – never heard anyone state where they could do this. As that was one of the reasons Woolies went under (devoting acres of space to a low profit branding because it was a tradition), then why the rush to appease the peepil by saying you are alright, it was the bad folks running the club we are interested in.
Does not make sense – this too big to fail malarky is ridiculous.
The business plan of Rangers NIL and T’Rangers (Yorkshire accent required there) are both the same – requires loads of gullible folks who think they are still in a battle fought long ago and commercially the same stance of ra peepil makes it unattractive to commercial enterprises. So the high cost of the team is subsidised wholly by the faith of the masses of the peepil buying tickets. And ra pies according to Der Bomber. The outgoings to all the backroom staff and players (and entertainment according to the last D&P figures) are way in excess of what they can make selling 50,000 STs at 250 quid a pop.
With incomings now having the CL Xmas presents taken out of the equation, the only way CG and his investors can make any money is to do a share issue. However to stay afloat until this is happens (whenever – was promised to be released last week) they need some additional income from selling replicas and stadium renaming – both have been muted (Sports Direct – but it wont be a 10 million pound profit – and CG said he had a deal in the works for stadium a month ago – again still waiting). Without these, they are relying on the peepil funding them twice this season – buying STs and buying Shares – and also buying loads of replica kits (hence the or@nge away strip being muted).
So Ra Peepil will be cajoled into parting with more and more of their money – at some point they will say no. Then CG is toast.
Anyone looking at the flawed spending plans and the risks involved would tell you its a recipe to repeat itself.
I have posted before – we need to copy the Bundesleague not EPL. Germany has one larger club (Bayern Munich) but is able to have a league where anyone can and does win it – plus fills stadiums up, has TV contracts in place etc…and also check the last paragraph – they actually celebrate how much taces they pay INTO the German society….not trying to disguise how much they COST the Scottish society, like our bretheren.
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/medien/report/index.php
Frankfurt am Main – The 36 clubs and companies of the League Association achieved their seventh straight revenue record during the 2010-11 season . Despite a difficult economic environment, the clubs generated a total of 2.23 billion euro last season (nearly 2 billion of which came from the Bundesliga).
Within the past four years, revenue has increased by 18.9 percent (24 percent in the Bundesliga). The DFL League Association publicised the figures today at the presentation of the Bundesliga Report in Frankfurt am Main.
Seifert: “Bundesliga more popular than ever with fans, sponsors and media partners”
“The measures for an improved cost control approved by the clubs in August 2010 have borne fruit. With that, professional football continues to have a strong outlook of remaining a success story, also because the Bundesliga has never beefore been so popular with fans, sponsors and media partners, said Christian Seifert, Chief Executive Officer of the DFL executive board.
Professional football recorded growth in all central income categories (revenues from advertising, media and professional football). After a loss last year (minus 78 million euro), the Bundesliga turned things around and achieved a profit of 52.5 million euro after tax. In addition, the liabilities of the Bundesliga clubs in the core business dropped by around 50 million euro, from 644 million euro the year before to about 594 million euro. The Bundesliga 2 reduced its losses by about 25 percent to 18.9 million euro (from 25.3 million in the previous year).
Just as in previous years, professional football remained a prominent taxpayer in Germany. Clubs and capital companies paid 719 million euro (previous year: 700 million) in taxes and duties – the highest total ever in professional football’s history. And for the first time, the number of people employed directly by the clubs or their subsidiaries has exceeded 14,000.
Wonder if they got a better deal than ND could after shouting down the product…….
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/news/2011/0000217456.php
Frankfurt am Main – Bundesliga fans in Great Britain and Ireland will be able to continue enjoying coverage of German football for the seasons 2012/13 – 2014/15 after a contract extension was agreed between DFL Sports Enterprises and the television network.
The rights package includes live TV coverage of Bundesliga, Supercup, friendly and relegation play-off matches as well as a weekly preview and highlights show. The rights for video on demand and online and mobile platforms are also included.
“The Bundesliga is a fantastic league”
ESPN will show a minimum of four Bundesliga games each week live in HD, while news, information, analysis and exclusive videos will be available both online and on mobile devices.
“This agreement continues our successful partnership with ESPN in Great Britain and Ireland,” said Jörg Daubitzer, CEO of DFL Sports Enterprises. “ESPN has been a reliable partner for many years in numerous countries, including Brazil and the USA.”
“The Bundesliga is a fantastic league and is one of the best in Europe,” said Jeroen Oerlemans, ESPN Europe, Middle East and Africa vice president. “British football fans know a lot about it and are passionate about their favourite sport. They appreciate top quality matches, players and clubs and, alongside other top leagues, they therefore pay a lot of attention to the Bundesliga.”
Exiled Celt@ 6.19am. Morning, I agree with you about the need for change,but Germany has something Scotand will never have, an extra 70 million people.The economic situation in Germany is such that there will always be young people wanting to live there,they come from all over Europe for a chance at a better life,so there will always be a market for Clubs, In Scotland we are getting an older population,they come here to retire,not to go to football.Our transport infrastructure is a shambles.A small landslide can block a road for 4 or 5 days (happened recently,not far from me ).these are small points i know, but when it can take 3 hours to travel 95 miles some people just cannot be bothered.
Then there is the product,jeez,the standard of football in Scotland is terrible,young men who can run the london marathon but cant trap a ball.The coaching in this country is rank,we are living on memories of great teams.The pricing of games is also beyond reason when you see what you get.
In Germany it’s much cheaper to travel and to get into the games,and you arrive not stressed out.
The Passion that we are so proud of as Scots will only take us so far. We need coaches to bring out the best in players,we need skill as well as fitness,and the present bunch are just not doing their job. When the football on the Park improves, the fans will be back.How much of your time and money are you prepared to give week after week to watch mediocrity. Passion we will always have,but we need a new audience ,there is a lot of competition for your money,football’s answer is to increase prices and lower the standards. The fans deserve better for their hard earned cash.
Every team in Scotland had players who would grace any team,now we have petulant mediocre,talentless numpties earning very large sums of money,people dont object to paying for something thats good,but there is a lot of resentment out there.
Re CG sales pitch
I liked the bit were he said “there’s a line over there (you can’t see it ) but I told Ally as long as the queue for STs goes beyond that line ,you can keep signing all the players you want .
I was wishing one of the fans to ask him to take them over and show them were the line was .
I will feel sorry for the real rangers fans ,when this runs it’s course
Have I got this correct? Chuckie is going to float Sevco and sell shares in …….. Nothing? The company doesnt own the club or history(apparently) , we don’t know who owns ibrox, Murray or Albion park. Roll up! Roll up! Buy your shares in nothing here! Surely they are not that gullible?