I am privileged to have the chance to post a “guest” article on TSFM. As we get used to the lights being turned out, even temporarily, on RTC, we have a new forum for analysing the various issues which concern supporters of Scottish football.
It is undoubtedly the case that most of these issues involve the Rangers FC, either directly or indirectly, together with their interaction with the governing bodies of Scottish football.
One of the matters mentioned on “The List” page here is the Nimmo Smith report. I try to answer the question about what happened to it below, and note the relevance its apparent disappearance has for the soon to convene SPL Independent Commission.
I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to contribute posts for publication to TSFM.
RTC created from nothing a vibrant community looking at serious and complex issues of finance, law and corporate governance with a huge range of expertise, and not a little humour. TSFM can build on that legacy for the good of football in Scotland, and hopefully to the betterment of our media.
Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?
On 21st February 2012 the SFA announced that it had appointed retired judge Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an independent inquiry into Rangers FC. His panel comprised Professor Niall Lothian, Past President of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland; Bob Downes, former Director of BT and now Deputy Chairman of the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency, and Stewart Regan, CEO of the SFA.
The Inquiry was commissioned to investigate the potential breach of a number of SFA Articles of Association and to present its findings to the SFA Board within two weeks. Article 62.2 (q) of the SFA Articles of Association allows the SFA Board to appoint “a commission … to attend to and/or determine any matter(s) referred to it by the Board.”
Stewart Regan was quoted saying: “I am delighted Lord Nimmo Smith has agreed to Chair the Independent Inquiry. I am certain the experience contained within the panel will enable us to achieve more clarity on the situation regarding Rangers FC. There will be no further comment on the investigation until it is complete and its findings presented to the Board.”
One wonders about the use of the word “independent”, bearing in mind that one of the members was the CEO of the commissioning body, and on the Board which would consider it once prepared.
On 2nd March Mr Regan had more to say, although the investigation was not yet complete.
“We are now in the final stages of our independent inquiry into the situation concerning Rangers FC. The report by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith is expected to be completed next week and will go to a Special Board Meeting for consideration. It would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this stage in relation to the details gleaned from the inquiry, the potential contents of the report or any possible sanctions.
On 8th March the Special Board Meeting took place to consider the Nimmo Smith Report. Mr Regan commented:-
“I can confirm that the Scottish FA convened a Special Board Meeting at Hampden Park today to discuss the findings of the Independent Inquiry into Rangers FC, prepared by the Chair, The Right Honourable Lord William Nimmo Smith.
“Principally, it is the belief of the Board, taking into account the prima facie evidence presented today, that Mr Craig Whyte is not considered to be a Fit and Proper person to hold a position within Association Football.
“The report submitted by Lord Nimmo Smith, having been considered fully by the Board, highlights a number of other potential rule breaches by the club and its owner. The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.
As such, the report’s contents will not be published at this time. Nevertheless, I can confirm that the club is facing a charge of bringing the game into disrepute.”
On 24th April Mr Regan, following the verdict of the Judicial Panel, said the following:-
“It was entirely right that the original inquiry into Rangers FC and Craig Whyte was conducted independently and chaired by the Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith. These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal, who returned their verdict last night.”
That all seems clear. Lord Nimmo Smith, with the help of distinguished people like Mr Regan, carried out a quick but thorough investigation, and the results were put to the Judicial Panel for consideration.
However Gary Allan QC, who chaired the Panel, made the following comment on page 59 of the Panel’s written decision.
“It is remarkable that throughout the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Process there has been repeated, and regrettably wholly misconceived reference to the Report of Lord Nimmo Smith. For the avoidance of any doubt, the Judicial Panel hearing this disciplinary matter was at no time presented with the report, as evidence or otherwise, nor was it presented with any of its findings. No member of the Tribunal has had sight of it. The report was not mentioned by any party at any time in the course of the proceedings. The determinations which were reached, therefore, were reached entirely independently of any view at which any other person, however senior or eminent, may have arrived in fulfilment of his remit prior to the disciplinary hearing.”
How can the Chair of the Panel deny having seen a document which, according to one of the people who sat on the independent committee, was presented to them?
The answer is two-fold.
Firstly, at pages 2 to 3 of the Judicial Panel decision, the procedural nuts and bolts of the case are discussed:-
“The Tribunal … directed that … it would proceed to hear the evidence and submissions and proceed to Determinations in relation to the complaints against both Rangers FC and Mr Whyte.
The Tribunal … noted that … it would proceed on the basis that there was an absolute denial on (Mr Whyte’s) part of each element of the alleged breach of the rules in all its particulars.
The Tribunal directed that accordingly, and notwithstanding the fact that in its written responses Rangers FC in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules, … the Tribunal would require to establish a clear factual basis for its Determination of both any alleged breaches and, if applicable, any sanction against either or both Rangers FC or Mr Whyte. … The commission and the circumstances of the alleged breaches would therefore require to be established by the leading of evidence before the Tribunal …
A discussion in relation to the procedure to be adopted took place. It was agreed that the Compliance Officer Mr Lunny would lead evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material but would lead no witnesses, and would invite the Tribunal to accept the evidence in that form as provided in the Judicial Panel Protocol. Mr McLaughlin for Rangers FC, standing its position on the complaints contained in the written response previously submitted had neither issues with that proposal nor any other objection to the procedure which would be adopted. An opportunity would then be afforded to Rangers FC to lead evidence and make submissions as Mr McLaughlin on its behalf saw fit. Mr McLaughlin intimated that he would be likely to lead evidence from four witnesses previously intimated to the Compliance Officer and the Tribunal in terms of the Judicial Panel Protocol.”
At the hearing the positions of Rangers FC and of Mr Whyte were totally at odds. Mr Whyte did not appear nor lodge any substantive reply. He denied everything. On the other hand, Rangers FC “in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules”. As the Panel determined, they needed to be satisfied of the right verdict based on the evidence, but as the “prosecution case” was generally admitted, there was less rigour about this than if, for example, Mr Whyte had attended and denied the charges.
If Mr Whyte had appeared to deny the allegations, or if Rangers FC had disputed them, then evidence would have had to come from witnesses, who could have been cross-examined. In that event it would not have been sufficient to present the Nimmo Smith report, because, for all his experience, expertise and eminence, he is not guaranteed to be infallible.
One important principle in judicial and quasi-judicial procedure is the “Best Evidence rule”. If possible, original documents should be produced, rather than copies. Items of physical evidence should be brought to the court, rather than photographs of it. Witnesses should give evidence rather than having witness statements provided to the hearing.
This, I think, provides part of the explanation for the apparently mysterious absence of the Nimmo Smith Report.
The facts of the case had been admitted by the only party who attended the hearing, namely Rangers FC. Therefore Mr Lunny led “evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material”. The Panel made 108 separate “findings in fact” derived from the evidence he put forward and that of Rangers FC.
Where Lord Nimmo Smith’s committee had, for example, analysed documents and offered a conclusion upon their import, the documents would be evidence but His Lordship’s conclusion would not. Similarly where a witness had been interviewed by the Nimmo Smith commission, or provided a statement, the former judge’s views on that would not be evidence, but the witness statement would be.
Mr Lunny, the Compliance Officer, was acting as prosecutor. Effectively Lord Nimmo Smith played the role of a senior detective co-ordinating an investigation, but not actually obtaining any evidence himself. In a criminal trial, where the officer in charge of the investigation has taken no part in the accumulation of the evidence, then their relevance as a witness is very small at best. It is up to the judge or the jury to decide what the totality of evidence means as far as guilt or innocence is concerned.
Therefore whilst I am sure that Lord Nimmo Smith’s report was on Mr Lunny’s table as he went through his presentation, ticking off the relevant parts as he led the primary evidence, the Report itself was not “relevant” evidence for the Panel. It is likely that, in discussion prior to the hearing, Mr Lunny and the solicitor for Rangers FC agreed whether the Nimmo Smith report would be used or not.
Mr Regan said prior to the Panel sitting “The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.“ The presentation of the case of course was independent of him, and whilst the Report would have formed the basis for the charges laid against Rangers FC and Mr Whyte, it was not evidence itself, as agreed between the parties.
The second aspect which accords with this explanation is the precise phrase used by Mr Regan. He said, after the decision, “These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal.”
He did not say that the report was presented, rather that the findings were. As the findings would form the basis for the “charges” admitted by Rangers FC, then to that extent the Nimmo Smith report played a part in the proceedings.
This issue has relevance now for the forthcoming SPL proceedings involving player payments and registrations which might have broken the rules. To great clamour and consternation from Ibrox direction, Harper MacLeod, the widely respected and highly rated form of solicitors, have carried out an investigation for the SPL into Rangers FC.
Mr Green has made clear that, as far as possible, the case will be fought, and no past titles will be stripped if he can do anything about it. Expect calls for the Harper MacLeod report to be produced.
However, it is in exactly the same position as the Nimmo Smith report was, except this time the accused is not accepting guilt. In that case, the relevant documents and witnesses will need to attend for scrutiny and examination.
On the basis that the First Tier Tax Tribunal, which looked at different but related issues, took many days to conclude, it is highly likely that the SPL case will not have a quick conclusion.
As a final aside, I must compliment Mr Green. All of the media speculation about punishment in the event that the independent commission find guilt on the part of Rangers repeats the mantra from Ibrox that the most severe penalty, namely stripping of titles, is the aim of the SPL.
I suspect that the SPL might believe that too now, on the basis that something which the club and the fans oppose so vigorously must be a draconian penalty.
But, of all of the various penalties listed, stripping titles would not cost the Rangers FC a single penny. The issue has already seen the supporters unite behind their team. Even if the commission finds the case proven, and as a result Rangers lose some of their historic titles, this will be seen by the Ibrox faithful as yet more treachery by the football authorities. Bearing in mind that the SPL rules allow various penalties, including the power to expel the club, impose unlimited fines and place a registration embargo on the club, altering the history books is the best thing for Rangers as a business, rather than a penalty which affects them just now.
Posted by Paul McConville – www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com
Enfakid says:
August 12, 2012 at 14:14
With regard to why someone highly paid like Souness would risk it for £30k I think you will find that that is how some people become very wealth -, they take every penny they can.
While the amount in their bank accounts and pay packets would make most of our eyes water they still want more.
Plenty of examples over the years of how people with this mentality try and save money. The Bankers, the MPS, all the offshore accounts etc. My favourite are the ones in London employing Phillipino nannies, with dodgy immigration papers, on slave wages, as if there were no reputable nanny agencies in the area.
TSFM says:
August 13, 2012 at 02:01
I can’t for the life of me understand the value to the SFA or anyone else in selecting Black for Scotland… many will perceive as his curious lack of sporting ambition in choosing to play in a lower league…
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No offence, but I don’t think that playing for Scotland at football has for quite a while been associated with sporting ambition (other than the ambition not to be gubbed that is), so it might tie in quite well with someone happy to drop to a D3 club.
john clarke says:
August 12, 2012 at 23:34
7 0 i
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Essex beancounter says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:34
‘JC…but did you “cuddle” one…?’
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Not exactly. But I was holding my 18- month-old grandaughter when she was allowed , with other little kids at a kind of ‘zoo-day’ , to run her hand down a koala’s back, said koala being held by a very attractive wild-life female warden, whose own back, if I had been a younger man, might have been a sore temptation!
Bless me, father…
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JC…ego te absolvo….
WOTTPI says:
August 13, 2012 at 08:40
With regard to why someone highly paid like Souness would risk it for £30k…..Plenty of examples over the years of how people with this mentality try and save money. The Bankers, the MPS, all the offshore accounts etc. My favourite are the ones in London employing Phillipino nannies, with dodgy immigration papers, on slave wages, as if there were no reputable nanny agencies in the area.
This is very true. It is also the case, and again it’s not hard to find examples, is that greed makes people stupid.
Garry Withey opts for defendent status.
http://www.thelawyer.com/ex-collyer-bristow-partner-withey-to-join-rangers-trial-as-defendant/1013882.article
MMore delays in the court saga.
thewestlight says:
August 13, 2012 at 08:36
Long Time Lurker says:
August 13, 2012 at 07:50
The nuclear button is an option of last resort – a deterrant
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Do you think it is working?
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I think an awful lot of people who normally have plenty to say for themselves are keeping it well zipped, probably for the first time in their lives. Walter Smith, anyone? Mr Souness? Dave King? Our beloved SFA president? and more besides.
I wonder why? I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure Charles Green does, and he’s using that knowledge very skilfully, so far as I can see.
Its been over a year that the corruption of Scottish football has been exposed on the rtc blog. Nothing seems to have changed the msm are still shilling for sevco Scotland and although great questions are asked online no one in authority is being asked them and then interrogated on their answers. Its time to take it up a notch bypass the likes of keevins and get some answers from the sfa sfl and uefa
Also when will we find out who got what from the 5.5m handed over to the duffs on the 31/7?
thewestlight says:
August 13, 2012 at 08:40
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Could it be that black is the only one of sevcos scots internationals who is legally entitled to play for scotland?
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He plays at Ibrox, he’s eligible, so he’s in. Is that it?
It certainly seems to be. I could write a list of Ibrox players who have, against all reason, found themselves in the Scotland squad. I have neither the time nor the patience.
thewestlight says:
August 13, 2012 at 08:36
I agree with jammy dodger says @ August 13, 2012 at 08:56 – there much silence, the only one who appears to be talking at moment is Mr McCoist.
As to whether the nuclear deterrent is working or not at the moment it appears to be keeping the peace. I guess that we are all waiting from the FTTT to issue their decision.
Hearing that Stuttgart very interested in the outcome of SPL inquiry on ‘additional payments’. If players improperly registered for domestic games then also for UEFA games. Stuttgart have met RFC Ltd 3 times in the group stages of the Champions League. They appear to be particularly interested in RFC’s run to the UEFA Cup Final.
From the man who uses the French language to explain his vocabulary.
“There will be more players coming into the club before deadline day but I can’t say who they are because I can’t pronounce their names.”
The stupidity of the man knows no bounds.
Note that TRFC Ltd not claiming ALL football dates paid, just Scottish ones. SFA don’t appear to have an issue with outstanding debts to clubs in other associations. Is the timescale for these pay backs different?
For all those exercised about the Scotland coach’s selection policy I don’t believe that there is an particular agenda. On the other hand Willie Ormond’s denial of the record number of consecutive caps to Kenny Dalglish (at the time it was held by G Young of RFC Ltd) is one of the most shameful episodes in the SFA’s history.
Can you imagine the furore if a commentator at the Olympics said “I can’t tell you who won that race because I can’t pronounce their name”. They’d be sacked on the spot for racism. Wonder of any of our illustrious press boys and girls will be offended by Chuck’s latest outpourings?
Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 09:44
tomtomaswell says:
August 13, 2012 at 09:06
have to admire enfakid’s devotion to this site. Posts ranging in times from 12.53 to 16.13. A break for his pot noodle and comfort break then back on at 02.36. Further posts at 04.07, 04.21, 06.21 and 07.08.
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That must be the freakiest post i have ever seen anywhere! You are well sad!
Oh and by the way have you heard of countries outside of Scotland, perhaps in different time zones. well when you go back to school ask your teacher about the big world out there
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Feel free to tell us where in the world you are. We embrace all on here.
Was considering taking my young nephew along to his first ever Scotland game, but not now! I reckon this will be the lowest attendance ever at an International match due to this crazy decision to call Black up for his first full cap.
Instead of ‘We’re on the march with Ally’s (not Fat Sally’s) army’, I fully expect to hear the WATP chant! Disgraceful decision, but not surprising, really…
WOTTPI says: August 13, 2012 at 08:40
Enfakid says:August 12, 2012 at 14:14
With regard to why someone highly paid like Souness would risk it for £30k I think you will find that that is how some people become very wealthy, they take every penny they can.
While the amount in their bank accounts and pay packets would make most of our eyes water they still want more.
And of course where there is one body buried, there are usually at lot more. I should stop really watching Prime Suspect…
Fritz Agrandoldteam says:
August 13, 2012 at 02:00
I think it is now safe to predict that if sevco can survive, long enough, (both on, and off the park), there will be two “old firm” cup meetings this season – both at ibrokes.
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Fritz…when you consider how many times they have unaturally avoided each other in semi-final draws in the last 50 years..then I think you can bank on a SEVCO UTD v Celtic cup draw…
Ps. don’t be surprised if they manage to get Celtic into the Ramsden cup as well… 😀
tomtomaswell says:
August 13, 2012 at 09:35
From the man who uses the French language to explain his vocabulary.
“There will be more players coming into the club before deadline day but I can’t say who they are because I can’t pronounce their names.”
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Did he really say that?
CW says:
August 13, 2012 at 01:30
‘—Probably going to get a load of flak for this..’
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As you can see, few TDs, CW, but no loads of flak as of now!
This blog has lots of room for reasoned/reasonable observations and points of view. One of its strengths.
It’s the mindless tit-for-tat trolling irrelevancies that get the flak, if they are noticed at all.
Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 07:08
Fans Against Corruption says:
But abandon it I will, because I will not be taken for a fool by this contemptable, risable, predictable bunch.
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All of this emotion because the Scotland manager picks a rangers (newco) player? Would you have been so distressed and dramatic had Ian Black still been a Hearts player?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I’ll answer your second question first – no, because I’ve not made any comment as to Ian Black’s merits of being in a Scotland squad as a football player. If he had still been with Hearts and had been called up, I may have doubted his ability, but if the manager decided he should be selected ahead of others, then I’d assume he has good reason. It may have made some sense, even if I disagreed. But I would lend my support provided I could accept that the footballers ability was the key aspect in the managers mind when he selected him.
So now to your first question. No, it is not because of who Ian Black plays for – in my mind. But, I do think it is who Ian Black plays for that is in the mind of Craig Levein/the SFA when the selection was made. And that is my issue – the decision goes against the criteria that I expect to be used when deciding who should be called into the international squad, as I’ve said above. I simply see it as an extension of the SFAs policy throughout this debacle – they have done everything possible with their utterances and their actions to keep the old Rangers fan base in the fold. They have looked at every way of maintaining the former teams status with the Sevco team in Scottish football – offering to accomodate unprecedented league applications for a new team to the SPL and to the highest levels of the SFL, and then ultimately sanctioning an unprecedented offering of a position in the SFL Div 3 to a new team, gerrymandering an unprecedented “transfer” of membership in order to do so, with the Chief Executive giving interviews in which he told anyone reading, early on in this saga, that “Rangers will have a vital contribution to the future of the Scottish game” or words to that effect, even when it must have been obvious that they were on their way to liquidation, then to the most recent naff comments around “they have to be around because football is about passing on traditions from father to son” (paraphrasing again).
The SFA know that the bulk of Sevco’s former Rangers fans hate them – so this latest chapter, where it seems quite obvious to me that the Scotland manager has been “reigned in” over comments about not picking Sevco players for international squads, is nothing more than for the two reasons I elaborated originally – to validate the new team as “Rangers”, and to try another step to bring the formers Rangers fanbase back into the Scotland fold – for financial reasons.
Now, in that last chapter, where did Ian Black’s football ability play a part in that decision?
And as for emotion – not really, just simple logic – why should I give my money or support to a group who I simply do not trust are making decsions for the right (in my mind) reasons?
I can remember a time when I would have given almost anything to have some success for Scotland in football. Bit.I really couldn’t care less anymore. In fact I would support those on here who call for a boycott of the national team. There is no ambition in the SFA to do anything other than make sure.there is enough money to pay for the SFA. Shut up, accept what you are given and don’t stir things up so we can carry on making money. To be fair to the SFA this is the message from the Uefa and FIFA, so why should the SFA be different. There is a complete lack of rigorous scrutiny from the media at best. Scottish football is dead to me.
Enfakid says: August 13, 2012 at 07:55
Mob justice?
Is when you take a snippet of information and irresponsibly spread it around the internet leading to the ignorant and uniformed to conjure up conspiracy theories that have the potential to damage a persons reputation….If you do not have the evidence, then keep your mouth shut.
Lord Wobbly is more than capable of looking after himself, but if I may jump in here… the proverbial “smoking gun” seems to be £30k in an EBT from a football club he left many years previously but he had done business with more recently. This information, backed by evidence, was put in the public domain by the BBC along with their suggestion (not mine) that this may have been linked with transfers – “Mr Souness declined to respond to BBC Scotland’s allegations”. RTC and now this website has discussed it, quite responsibly I think, in that context.
Enfakid, I dont know which team if any you support,I just wonder at your responses to other comments.You seem to be on the defensive about Sevco and our latest cap Ian Black.You dont like facts,you prefer to argue a point when you dont have a grasp of the truth (re n. lennon ).I am suprised at your attacks,but i am delighted that you are trying to defend an untenable position,maybe you have a conscience.
Maybe the worm of truth is gnawing away at you. Most of the people on this blog want the WHOLE TRUTH to come out,but as we all know (you included ) that there are some at the top of our game that do not want their part in THE MOST SHAMEFUL EPISODE IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL to become public knowledge,they will do and have done despicable deeds to keep the truth from coming out. No matter, this blog and others like will not allow this to go away.
The chase is on, and the prey is getting worried.
One last thing,do YOU have a solution to the problems facing Sevco ?.
I was bored, and being somewhat intrigued I Googled Enfakid, and this is what I came up with
“After 3 years, your child’s brain continues to grow & develop, converting experience into knowledge. Appropriate nutrition and stimulation of the child’s senses are critical to his development, and lead to advanced cognitive abilities such as reasoning, inference and logic. This helps support your child’s learning process.”
So it’s a formulated milk product for the very young
It’s OT I know, but considering some of his posts ……………………………………………..
I gave up on Rangers during Walters second spell in charge. Saw some dreadful football and read match reports and opinion pieces that bore absolutely no resemblance to what I’d just watched. I listened to journalists rotten attempts at interviewing the players, manager and coaches. I began to get a sinking feeling. One interview with Walter finally pushed me over the edge. Away to St Mirren was a shocking performance, three points but should have lost. Walter took to the radio to inform us that he was happy with the three points and St Mirren were always a well organised team and tough to beat at home. He was not challenged on this even though the person conducting the interview was a Buddies fan and would surely have a different opinion on their home form. It took two seconds to look at the table. At the time, well into the season by now, St Mirren were bottom and had won the fewest matches at home. They were the lowest scorers at home and had conceded the most goals at home out of any team in the league.
Scrape away all the layers of nonsense and find the facts. It is beautifully simple and it can make people look pretty stupid. I was an avid reader of RTC but never posted comment. The level of intelligence combined with well informed contributions by many posters made it an essential port of call for me. I made the move over to TSFM and the early signs are promising. But…. I don’t think the selection of Ian Black warrants this level of debate and please don’t boycott Scotland matches over this.
I’m a first time poster and it’s not my intention to offend anyone but there is too much nonsense on here at the moment. If this site sticks to highlighting inaccuracies, hypocrisy and debating the facts then it can change and shape opinion and continue the inspirational work of RTC.
Paulmac says:
August 13, 2012 at 10:02
tomtomaswell says:
August 13, 2012 at 09:35
From the man who uses the French language to explain his vocabulary.
“There will be more players coming into the club before deadline day but I can’t say who they are because I can’t pronounce their names.”
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Did he really say that?
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-revealed-rangers-debts-1257144
It’s very convenient for Ian Black to be named in a Scotland squad in the middle of a transfer window. It is an arguement to existing RFC(IA) players that they need not leave to “represent their country”, and an inducement to any players stupid enough to consider joining, that they should not necessarily “give up hope” of doing so either.
TSFM
My call for boycott has zilch to do with Ian Black’s selection. It is for others to decide on his merits as a international player. My call is a tactical response to the jokers at Hamden.In fact, to respond to minor distractions such as the selection of a particular player is to lose sight of the bigger picture and to play into the maw of those jokers.
This is a friendly game, we (TSFM bloggers) on the other hand, are playing for the very future of Scottish football.
scottyjimbo says:
August 13, 2012 at 10.17am.
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It’s very convenient for Ian Black to be named in a Scotland squad in the middle of a transfer window. It is an arguement to existing RFC(IA) players that they need not leave to “represent their country”, and an inducement to any players stupid enough to consider joining, that they should not necessarily “give up hope” of doing so either.
Nail on the head jimbo.
Congratulations to the BBC for their coverage of the Olympic closing ceremony. When Ricky Wilson appeared with the Kaiser Chiefs singing a Who song, even although he looked a bit like Roger Daltrey, and sounded very like Roger Daltrey, they didnt call him Roger Daltrey and correctly referred to the band as ‘The Kaiser Chiefs’, not ‘The Who.’
Neither did they call the collection of singers and musicians who performed a Pink Floyd number, ‘Pink Floyd’, even although the drummer was in fact Nick Mason of Pink Floyd.
Excellent, accurate coverage. I hope BBC Scotland Sports department were watching. Instead of ‘Rangers’ maybe they could use the title, ‘Fat Sally and his collection of waifs, strays, footpads and vagabonds.’
(OT: What happened to the ‘da da da da’ in the national anthem? To my mind, lyrically and melodically, the finest part of the anthem.)
“There will be more players coming into the club before deadline day but I can’t say who they are because I can’t pronounce their names.”
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Did he really say that?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-revealed-rangers-debts-1257144
That remark is just… I can’t actually find the words. I’m embarrassed for him.
Also in that record report, he claims to have paid £500,000 to the SFA but weren’t Hearts alone owed £800,000?
Wee tweet from “Oldco” 🙂
Rangers Tax-Caseþ@rangerstaxcase
Neil McCann- a word-smith? He might not have signed a second contract (for EBT) but he DID have one. Naughty to mislead like that.
Do the SFL have a different policy towads sectarian singing than the SPL?
Last season the SPL policy was that the club was reported when this happened
(excluding Admin games at Ibrox)
Now it seems the cops arrest a few people and the matter is closed(Brechin Peterhead)
I wonder if Craig Levein is just the latest in a long line of dupes
Was there pressure applied to him to include just one Sevco player for the good of the game,
to show unity and accept Sevco back into the fold
This upcoming match was already in danger of being snubbed in protest at the SFA mismanagement
The inclusion of Black is unlikely to have the regular bluenoses donning the tartan and heading for Hampden but it will give the MSM the excuse they need to blame the small minded Tartan army for staying away. The protest will not be about SFA corruption but evidenced as the ongoing hatred of Rfc* by everyone else .
As for earlier allegations of match fixing ,lets get it right.What has occured after the transfer ban was postponed til after the transfer window closes is not match fixing but league fixing.
It ensures that Rfc* dont have to rely on budding youngsters but can buy their way to success with the addition of SPL quality players . Maybe getting themselves a quality manager would have been a smarter idea as the result in Peterhead showed
We in Scotland have produced some of the smartest managers in the game with Stein Ferguson
Shankly and Busby ,unfortunately we seem to have produced some of the dumbest as well
Might the elevation of Black be a corrupt attempt to raise his profile to international level so that Sevco can sell him on at some point? Although they wouldn’t be able to replace him until January 2014!
Have to say guys that this forum is becoming increasingly too much of a chore to post in.
Frankly it’s getting to the stage that it’s not worth the effort.
My English isn’t the best, in fact it’s pretty poor but my vocabulary is pure working class and it is being moderated to death.
Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 07:55
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Ohh…we got a live one here! Haha…
It’s quite simple really and very apparent that Black has been included in Leviens squad because Campbell Ogilvie is, as always, pulling the strings of various muppets within Hampden and it’s, as many have already pointed out, to appease and promote the zombie reincarnation of RFC and their deluded followers. Black a worthy addition?? No, never would be as an SPL player and that he plays in the bottom league, just goes to show how absurdly corrupt the SFA are.
What was that thing Levein was saying about SFL players previously??
Souness, or Bealzebub to give him his proper title, has been caught with his fingers in the till, as various others have but when the nature of the beasts EBT and the time-scale does look like it’s a scam re player sales. Which it is, and if Souness had nothing to hide, then he would no doubt be telling the world how it is…which he has done through his career previously, he is uncharacteristically quiet because he is hiding under the proverbial bed. Not becaue 30k is beneath him to comment or whatever…who honestly do you think you are kidding?!
The drive has to be, as it always should, to have Regan, Doncaster, Ogilvie and various other corrupt individuals and parties removed from our game. Transparency? What is so worrying about that word to the establishment? What on earth are these people so frightened of??
When the attendance at Easter Road is paltry, it will be spinned away from the real reason, which is the Scottish support (tartan army) are showing contempt for the SFA, just as the SFA have done for everyone else in this pathetic saga.
As Jimmy Cricket used to say:”And there’s more!”
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Neil McCann- a word-smith? He might not have signed a second contract (for EBT) but he DID have one. Naughty to mislead like that.
2m Tony McKelvie Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie
@rangerstaxcase Perhaps he meant he received a letter explaining that The Board would recommend the Trustees ‘loan’ him £X per appearance..
1m Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@TonyMcKelvie Almost verbatim!
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Neil McCann- that side-letter RFC sent you on 13 July 2001? That is a 2nd contract.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 10:35
When RTC can quote the exact date of the letter to McCann, you would think that everyone involved in this shameful episode In Scottish football history would wise up, and realise that the game is a bogey
All of them from the SFA/SPL/SFL, to the players and managers should make a clean breast of things, because sooner or later everything is going to be made public, and there will be no hiding place for any of them
The more you try to keep secrets and withhold information, the more likely it is to be made public
campsiejoe says:
August 13, 2012 at 10:54
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 10:35
When RTC can quote the exact date of the letter to McCann, you would think that everyone involved in this shameful episode In Scottish football history would wise up, and realise that the game is a bogey
All of them from the SFA/SPL/SFL, to the players and managers should make a clean breast of things, because sooner or later everything is going to be made public, and there will be no hiding place for any of them
The more you try to keep secrets and withhold information, the more likely it is to be made public
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Couldn’t agree more,Campsiejoe.
McCann seems to be in RTCs sights today.Could this be a sign that the dam is about to burst.Maybe not the FTT result but it may be a sign that the rats are starting to desert the sinking ship.Hopefully we’ll see information coming into the public domain quicker now.
@rangerstaxcase Perhaps he meant he received a letter explaining that The Board would recommend the Trustees ‘loan’ him £X per appearance..
1m Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@TonyMcKelvie Almost verbatim!
Campsiejoe,
I’m no twitter expert but I took this as confirmation that RTC has seen McCanns letter as he answers Tony McKelvies suggestion with “Almost Verbatim”.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 11:01
I don’t think it’s a case of RTC having McCann in his sights as such
RTC now appears to be prepared to show with hard proof, that all of these little innocents are in actual fact spouting nonsense
Any of them who open their mouths would be well advised to tell the truth, or face the same outcome as McCann
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 11:08
In my opinion, that is the only conclusion you can draw from that phrase
campsiejoe says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:09
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 11:01
I don’t think it’s a case of RTC having McCann in his sights as such
RTC now appears to be prepared to show with hard proof, that all of these little innocents are in actual fact spouting nonsense
Any of them who open their mouths would be well advised to tell the truth, or face the same outcome as McCann
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I’m sure it’s not just about McCann.I’m hoping that RTCs plan,if he has one,is to expose anyone who speaks out in public.
I also don’t know the workings of the SFL but I’d be worried about Sevco starting in my league on saturday.If as reported,CG has accepted that all football sanctions can still be applied,then any further revelations must put their long term future in doubt.I cannot see UEFA?FIFA turning a blind eye to over a decade of cheating at home and abroad.They’ll force the SFA to act and expulsion would seem to be the only option,such is the scale of wrongdoing.It would be better for Div 3 to start with 9 clubs rather than have to deal with the chaos that will ensue if RFC go belly up during the season.
What is the definition of a football debt?
Is it any debt for any thing that is owed by any football club to any other football club?
If so it is a clever wheeze to repay some Creditors at the expense of others
If a club have their toilet facilites and seating damaged by visiting fans does the repair cost qualify as a football debt ?
longtimelurker@10-46
I totally agree with what you say, at the minute i have not had any post’s held in moderation because of the use of bad language but i have used swear words in the past[rtc] when i felt the need to.I don’t believe that using such language should barr us from posting on tsfm because it may offend some people.I can put my hand on my heart and say that there are an awful lot of intelligent people on here who can express themselves a lot better than i can but i hope they can see that the language i use is born out of frustration with the level of corruption that is happening in front of our very eyes and apart from this site no one seems to give a s**t
Grant Russell @STVGrant
Via @STVKeith,
Brazilian midfielder Andre Moritz is on trial at Rangers. More on his training stint:
Another Brazilian!
I assume they all qualify for work permits or probably have a european passport.
Andre Moritz,surely even CG can pronunce this.
Have i missed something CG said on 8 June”his other comments reccomending that creditors should vote against a CVA beggars belief for someone who is a Rangers fan.What he is suggesting rather than get a CVA through that retains all the history and tradition we should go down the newco route.I mean why would he suggest that.”CG was talking about Dave from South Africa of course..,the puzzling thing for me is when did the history and tradition become part of the newco or is CG just messing around with the bears memory span
Livia Burlando says:
August 13, 2012 at 10:30
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-revealed-rangers-debts-1257144
….. Also in that record report, he claims to have paid £500,000 to the SFA but weren’t Hearts alone owed £800,000?
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It actually says £50,000 in the Record story, not half a million. There’s an unusual (misleading?) use of a comma in quoting the figure (“£500,00.”)
I’m sure it’s just a typo 😉
And you’re right, half a million wouldn’t cover it anyway, and also no mention of oldco’s football debts to clubs outside Scotland – Rapid Vienna, Man City, Arsenal etc etc.
Brazilian midfielder Andre Moritz has started a trial period with Rangers, STV understands.
The 26-year-old, who holds Italian citizenship, is available on a free transfer having left Turkish club Mersin Idmanyurdu in the summer.
Moritz has spent the last five years in Turkey, having moved to Kasimpasa S.K. from Fluminese in 2007, before going to spend a season apiece with Kayserispor and Mersin.
A left-sided attacking player, Moritz arrived in Scotland at the weekend and joined Ally McCoist’s side for training at Murray Park on Monday.
Rangers have already added his compatriot Emilson Cribari to their squad, as reinforcements are added ahead of the commencement of a one-year signing embargo starting September 1.
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How much will his wages be.Ally has no intention of using youngsters.The same old business model,just on a smaller scale.
Looks like they’re closing in on RTC! http://youtu.be/k3gPuUlZTZM
monster_mind says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:27
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Livia Burlando says:
August 13, 2012 at 10:30
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-revealed-rangers-debts-1257144
….. Also in that record report, he claims to have paid £500,000 to the SFA but weren’t Hearts alone owed £800,000?
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Reluctant to comment on a DR story but maybe the money withheld by the SPL covers the rest of the Scottish football debtors?
How many over 21 players do Sevco have now
Must be getting close to the 22 allowed in the SFL rules
It’s almost as if all of the football worlds flotsam and jetsam is heading towards (the soon to be renamed) Murray Park.
” For luv oft Gawd Ally, can thee not get sumpt who’s name one I can say Laddo”
Can’t help but wonder if these players are actually Allys choices or “recommendations” from CGs middle eastern investors.
Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie
Who’s going to break the news to Neil McCann that he was invalidly registered and ineligible to play in 62 RFC matches and 2 Scotland games?
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:24
Brazilian midfielder Andre Moritz is on trial at Rangers. More on his training stint:
Another Brazilian!
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I thought Jose Mourinho was saying the other day that Madrid were open to offers for Kaka? Maybe CG has just made a mistake with the name and asked the wrong Brazilian along?
I thought Brazilians were all about trimming things down 🙂
Listening to Derek Johnstone on talksport now talking to Keys and Gray
Absolute balloon who makes me want to chuck my radio out of the window!
‘Sally is great’ ‘still the same club,same history’ etc etc zzzzzzzzzz
Bill says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:5
Listening to Derek Johnstone on talksport now talking to Keys and Gray
Absolute balloon who makes me want to chuck my radio out of the window!
‘Sally is great’ ‘still the same club,same history’ etc etc zzzzzzzzzz
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DJ is just mirroring his team and moving down the divisions.You can’t go much lower than Keys & Gray on Talksport.
Listed below are the last 10 headlines from Richard Wilson’s most recent columns in The Herald.
– Little comfort. McCoist’s side must get used to days like these.
– More than a sum of it’s parts (Re. TRFC v Peterhead)
– McCoist moving closer to Green
– Hard graft pays off as Kyle proves in working order
– two strikers and a defender sign up to McCoist’s project ahead of transfer emargo
– Rangers 4 East Fife 0 : Declaration of intent from fans, managers and players
– Levein: rangers players are still an option if required
– Talisman is key to Levein’s national prescription
– Rangers fans’ groups call for justice and fairness for all
– Ibrox side on lower league mission
Credit where credit’s due. In Wilson, we have a new champion of 4th tier football with an occasional penchant for his national team. 9 of his last 10 columns dedicated to TRFC. Seriously, have we ever seen the like? The answer, sadly, is yes. Some things in MSM seem set never to change.
Richard, take note. TSFM does exactly what it says on the tin. We’re watching you. But definitely not listening to you. We’ve heard it all before sunshine!
blu says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:37
maybe the money withheld by the SPL covers the rest of the Scottish football debtors?
I suppose that’s possible. Who knows? That’s problem really, the whole issue is so obfuscated that we will probably never know. It would be the easiest thing in the world for the SFA to issue a statement saying TRFC owe clubs a, b,c the amounts d, e and f. This has been settled so far by x withheld prize monies, y payments from the club and z is still owed. Anyone with access to the facts could do it in less than five minutes.
The other problem of course is that CG makes so many utterly bizarre statements – sometimes outright lies, but also just random outrageous bonkers remarks – that stuff like this just disappears in the general outraged confusion.
There are many precedents for the words and actions of the Lord Haw Haw MSM. To quote the worst, “we were only doing our job”.
Certainly, an extreme comparison I know, and one that I don’t choose lightly.
and, of course there is no equivalence with what’s happening here and the annihilation of millions of human beings.
The comparison I’m making is purely related to the unwritten but colluded defence they must be making to justify their puriile irrelevant grossly innacurate rantings and ravings, their hilarious and ridiculous bending over backwards attempts to desperately continue an abruptly ended timeline- endless justifications for such ineptitude lies and deceit
Woolworths is dead, we remember it, but it’s history died when it did.
Next!
The ref insisted on playing in ‘training shirts’ spin. TRFC Ltd do not have a kit supplier. Check their website for their partners. The kit, playing and training, the new club are wearing comes from old RFC stock that TRFC purchase. TRFC were aware of clash in advance but did not have an alternative other than the training kit. They arrived with numbers on the shirts. Check out training pics to confirm that the players do not train with numbers or SLF flashings. Another example of the relationship between TRFC and Scotland’s sports churnalists.
Stunney – what chance you could deliver the papers a wee bit later? Just picked up your 5.42am headlines….are you doing a milk round as well?
Cheers.
Livia Burlando says:
August 13, 2012 at 12:23
blu says:
August 13, 2012 at 11:37
maybe the money withheld by the SPL covers the rest of the Scottish football debtors?
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I suppose that’s possible. Who knows? That’s problem really, the whole issue is so obfuscated that we will probably never know. It would be the easiest thing in the world for the SFA to issue a statement saying TRFC owe clubs a, b,c the amounts d, e and f. This has been settled so far by x withheld prize monies, y payments from the club and z is still owed. Anyone with access to the facts could do it in less than five minutes.
The other problem of course is that CG makes so many utterly bizarre statements – sometimes outright lies, but also just random outrageous bonkers remarks – that stuff like this just disappears in the general outraged confusion.
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Agreed.
The DR story is that CG was so incensed by the suggestion that there were football debts outstanding, that he called the DR to clear all this up.
All we actually get by way of clearing this up is a vague quote (“They are not even my debts but I’ve paid them anyway as we want to put this behind us and rise again.”) and an ambiguous number (£50k? £500k?)
A follow-up call to the SFA could have cleared this up in 5 mins, if any journalist could be arsed asking.
What needs to be asked is:
a) how much was owed for football debts by Oldco (see D&P’s creditors report)
b) what oldco debts were required to be cleared by Sevco as a condition of their SFA membership, and when was the deadline for payment? (was this ever specified? Scottish football debts or all football debts?)
c) how much was cleared by the withheld SPL money (£900k?)
d) what was the balance remaining?
e) how much have Sevco actually paid?
People are discussing payments to Mr Sounness via an EBT
If I remember correctly Mr Sounness left Rangers prior to that trust being set up.
Which begs the question, why was he paid via an Employee Benefit Trust, when he hadn’t been an employee at any time when it was operating. Particularly as he was an employee of another football club when the payment was made to him.
Sorry if that is more to do with a failing memory than anything else.
I hear a lot of people talking about conflicts of interests. Brokering purchases on behalf of your employer, whilst receiving payments from the selling club must fit into that quite nicely.
To those who discuss it being “only £30,000”, how much money do you earn a year (tax free).
When I think all the organisations/institutions/people involved in this heinous pantomime…
and consider the fact that structures are not disposed to humour being directed against them…
and then recall the jokes that’ve emerged in the last few months re the above…
then I wonder why no one has started The Rangersgate Joke Blog.
Now if I only had the time…
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/2/7986799/green-eyes-further-gers-signings
50k clears up their football debts? 😯
The Olympics have just finished and we witnessed the GB Cycling team win 7 (of 10) gold, 1 silver and 1 bronze on the track and Bradley Wiggins winning another gold in the time trial along with a bronze for Froome and a silver in the womens road race.
The work put in by Performance Director Dave Brailsford and his team tries to cover all aspects of the sport including performance, fitness, nutrition, physiology, psychology and equipment. Incredible effort and attention to detail is put in to driving the sport forward – right down to Sir Chris Hoy’s hot pants. Nothing is left to chance and everything is done to ensure that the cyclists all peak at the right time in relation to major championships.
Brailsford is considering if he will continue in his role but you can be certain that, even if he does move on, his legacy will continue and preparations for Rio 2016 will begin in a few weeks time.
Compare that with our National Football Team. Between September 2012 and June 2013 we have 7 qualifying matches for the World Cup In Brazil in 2014. To prepare for this our Manager, either under his own steam or driven by others, is prepared to consider players who will spend the season playing in the Scottish Third Division.
I feel as thought I could write a lot more but anyone who knows anything about sport and what is required to achieve maximum performance at the right time can just see how daft it is wasting time on players who will either not be good enough for the task or who may have the talent but will be well off the pace in terms of appropriate perparation for international football.
Football in Scotland is still the old sporting dog that can’t learn new tricks.
Was curious to know how UEFA and FIFA regard the current Sevco/SFA shenanigans.
UEFA = http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/index.html.
There is no senior mens football team called Rangers, Glasgow Rangers or even The Rangers listed anywhere. Only listed Rangers team is Rangers LFC (the ladies team).
Does make you wonder then if any Sevco/The Rangers players would be eligible for internationals in UEFA’s eyes?
FIFA = http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=sco/photo/photolist.html#1677300.
Four of the first 6 photos show a third division team. That’s bad enough but, the 6th photo?? well, considering it would have been a member of the SFA, or their appointed representative who would have submitted the photo’s, it could reasonably be said the the SFA have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast.
Without a wholesale shake up of Scottish football’s administrative structures this game is utterly beyond contempt.
Green added: “There are fans out there who think we are signing new players and haven’t paid our debts. This couldn’t be further from the truth.
“They are not even my debts but I’ve paid them anyway as we want to put this behind us and rise again.
“We handed £50,000 to the SFA last Thursday to clear up all the fines and to pay what we owed the clubs.”
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Easyjambo.
Is there any way you could clarify if hearts are satisfied over Wallace’s outstanding fees. Is any other poster able to clear up from a different club who was owed money. Will this information show up in the Hearts accounts as transfer fees due at a certain date, and then we could work out if and when it got paid in the next set of accounts.
Stifflers Mom,
Yes, just like his ET stablemate wee Dawwl, Richard has taken it upon himself to become the Herald’s special ‘Cultural’ attaché toutes les affaires Sevcovian.
He is after all very familiar with their traditions and his impassioned dispatches from the Govan front reflect the staunch faith the permenantly restless natives have in their Ibrox embedded friendly correspondent.