Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

Avatar ByElijah Baley

Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

I am privileged to have the chance to post a “guest” article on TSFM. As we get used to the lights being turned out, even temporarily, on RTC, we have a new forum for analysing the various issues which concern supporters of Scottish football.

It is undoubtedly the case that most of these issues involve the Rangers FC, either directly or indirectly, together with their interaction with the governing bodies of Scottish football.

One of the matters mentioned on “The List” page here is the Nimmo Smith report. I try to answer the question about what happened to it below, and note the relevance its apparent disappearance has for the soon to convene SPL Independent Commission.

I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to contribute posts for publication to TSFM.

RTC created from nothing a vibrant community looking at serious and complex issues of finance, law and corporate governance with a huge range of expertise, and not a little humour. TSFM can build on that legacy for the good of football in Scotland, and hopefully to the betterment of our media.

Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

On 21st February 2012 the SFA announced that it had appointed retired judge Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an independent inquiry into Rangers FC. His panel comprised Professor Niall Lothian, Past President of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland; Bob Downes, former Director of BT and now Deputy Chairman of the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency, and Stewart Regan, CEO of the SFA.

The Inquiry was commissioned to investigate the potential breach of a number of SFA Articles of Association and to present its findings to the SFA Board within two weeks. Article 62.2 (q) of the SFA Articles of Association allows the SFA Board to appoint “a commission … to attend to and/or determine any matter(s) referred to it by the Board.”

Stewart Regan was quoted saying: “I am delighted Lord Nimmo Smith has agreed to Chair the Independent Inquiry. I am certain the experience contained within the panel will enable us to achieve more clarity on the situation regarding Rangers FC. There will be no further comment on the investigation until it is complete and its findings presented to the Board.”

One wonders about the use of the word “independent”, bearing in mind that one of the members was the CEO of the commissioning body, and on the Board which would consider it once prepared.

On 2nd March Mr Regan had more to say, although the investigation was not yet complete.

“We are now in the final stages of our independent inquiry into the situation concerning Rangers FC. The report by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith is expected to be completed next week and will go to a Special Board Meeting for consideration. It would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this stage in relation to the details gleaned from the inquiry, the potential contents of the report or any possible sanctions.

On 8th March the Special Board Meeting took place to consider the Nimmo Smith Report. Mr Regan commented:-

“I can confirm that the Scottish FA convened a Special Board Meeting at Hampden Park today to discuss the findings of the Independent Inquiry into Rangers FC, prepared by the Chair, The Right Honourable Lord William Nimmo Smith. 

“Principally, it is the belief of the Board, taking into account the prima facie evidence presented today, that Mr Craig Whyte is not considered to be a Fit and Proper person to hold a position within Association Football.

“The report submitted by Lord Nimmo Smith, having been considered fully by the Board, highlights a number of other potential rule breaches by the club and its owner. The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.

As such, the report’s contents will not be published at this time. Nevertheless, I can confirm that the club is facing a charge of bringing the game into disrepute.”

On 24th April Mr Regan, following the verdict of the Judicial Panel, said the following:-

“It was entirely right that the original inquiry into Rangers FC and Craig Whyte was conducted independently and chaired by the Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith. These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal, who returned their verdict last night.”

That all seems clear. Lord Nimmo Smith, with the help of distinguished people like Mr Regan, carried out a quick but thorough investigation, and the results were put to the Judicial Panel for consideration.

However Gary Allan QC, who chaired the Panel, made the following comment on page 59 of the Panel’s written decision.

“It is remarkable that throughout the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Process there has been repeated, and regrettably wholly misconceived reference to the Report of Lord Nimmo Smith. For the avoidance of any doubt, the Judicial Panel hearing this disciplinary matter was at no time presented with the report, as evidence or otherwise, nor was it presented with any of its findings. No member of the Tribunal has had sight of it. The report was not mentioned by any party at any time in the course of the proceedings. The determinations which were reached, therefore, were reached entirely independently of any view at which any other person, however senior or eminent, may have arrived in fulfilment of his remit prior to the disciplinary hearing.”

How can the Chair of the Panel deny having seen a document which, according to one of the people who sat on the independent committee, was presented to them?

The answer is two-fold.

Firstly, at pages 2 to 3 of the Judicial Panel decision, the procedural nuts and bolts of the case are discussed:-

“The Tribunal … directed that … it would proceed to hear the evidence and submissions and proceed to Determinations in relation to the complaints against both Rangers FC and Mr Whyte.

The Tribunal … noted that … it would proceed on the basis that there was an absolute denial on (Mr Whyte’s) part of each element of the alleged breach of the rules in all its particulars.

The Tribunal directed that accordingly, and notwithstanding the fact that in its written responses Rangers FC in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules, … the Tribunal would require to establish a clear factual basis for its Determination of both any alleged breaches and, if applicable, any sanction against either or both Rangers FC or Mr Whyte. … The commission and the circumstances of the alleged breaches would therefore require to be established by the leading of evidence before the Tribunal …

A discussion in relation to the procedure to be adopted took place. It was agreed that the Compliance Officer Mr Lunny would lead evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material but would lead no witnesses, and would invite the Tribunal to accept the evidence in that form as provided in the Judicial Panel Protocol. Mr McLaughlin for Rangers FC, standing its position on the complaints contained in the written response previously submitted had neither issues with that proposal nor any other objection to the procedure which would be adopted. An opportunity would then be afforded to Rangers FC to lead evidence and make submissions as Mr McLaughlin on its behalf saw fit. Mr McLaughlin intimated that he would be likely to lead evidence from four witnesses previously intimated to the Compliance Officer and the Tribunal in terms of the Judicial Panel Protocol.”

At the hearing the positions of Rangers FC and of Mr Whyte were totally at odds. Mr Whyte did not appear nor lodge any substantive reply. He denied everything. On the other hand, Rangers FC “in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules”. As the Panel determined, they needed to be satisfied of the right verdict based on the evidence, but as the “prosecution case” was generally admitted, there was less rigour about this than if, for example, Mr Whyte had attended and denied the charges.

If Mr Whyte had appeared to deny the allegations, or if Rangers FC had disputed them, then evidence would have had to come from witnesses, who could have been cross-examined. In that event it would not have been sufficient to present the Nimmo Smith report, because, for all his experience, expertise and eminence, he is not guaranteed to be infallible.

One important principle in judicial and quasi-judicial procedure is the “Best Evidence rule”. If possible, original documents should be produced, rather than copies. Items of physical evidence should be brought to the court, rather than photographs of it. Witnesses should give evidence rather than having witness statements provided to the hearing.

This, I think, provides part of the explanation for the apparently mysterious absence of the Nimmo Smith Report.

The facts of the case had been admitted by the only party who attended the hearing, namely Rangers FC. Therefore Mr Lunny led “evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material”. The Panel made 108 separate “findings in fact” derived from the evidence he put forward and that of Rangers FC.

Where Lord Nimmo Smith’s committee had, for example, analysed documents and offered a conclusion upon their import, the documents would be evidence but His Lordship’s conclusion would not. Similarly where a witness had been interviewed by the Nimmo Smith commission, or provided a statement, the former judge’s views on that would not be evidence, but the witness statement would be.

Mr Lunny, the Compliance Officer, was acting as prosecutor. Effectively Lord Nimmo Smith played the role of a senior detective co-ordinating an investigation, but not actually obtaining any evidence himself. In a criminal trial, where the officer in charge of the investigation has taken no part in the accumulation of the evidence, then their relevance as a witness is very small at best. It is up to the judge or the jury to decide what the totality of evidence means as far as guilt or innocence is concerned.

Therefore whilst I am sure that Lord Nimmo Smith’s report was on Mr Lunny’s table as he went through his presentation, ticking off the relevant parts as he led the primary evidence, the Report itself was not “relevant” evidence for the Panel. It is likely that, in discussion prior to the hearing, Mr Lunny and the solicitor for Rangers FC agreed whether the Nimmo Smith report would be used or not.

Mr Regan said prior to the Panel sitting The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol. The presentation of the case of course was independent of him, and whilst the Report would have formed the basis for the charges laid against Rangers FC and Mr Whyte, it was not evidence itself, as agreed between the parties.

The second aspect which accords with this explanation is the precise phrase used by Mr Regan. He said, after the decision, These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal.”

He did not say that the report was presented, rather that the findings were. As the findings would form the basis for the “charges” admitted by Rangers FC, then to that extent the Nimmo Smith report played a part in the proceedings.

This issue has relevance now for the forthcoming SPL proceedings involving player payments and registrations which might have broken the rules. To great clamour and consternation from Ibrox direction, Harper MacLeod, the widely respected and highly rated form of solicitors, have carried out an investigation for the SPL into Rangers FC.

Mr Green has made clear that, as far as possible, the case will be fought, and no past titles will be stripped if he can do anything about it. Expect calls for the Harper MacLeod report to be produced.

However, it is in exactly the same position as the Nimmo Smith report was, except this time the accused is not accepting guilt. In that case, the relevant documents and witnesses will need to attend for scrutiny and examination.

On the basis that the First Tier Tax Tribunal, which looked at different but related issues, took many days to conclude, it is highly likely that the SPL case will not have a quick conclusion.

As a final aside, I must compliment Mr Green. All of the media speculation about punishment in the event that the independent commission find guilt on the part of Rangers repeats the mantra from Ibrox that the most severe penalty, namely stripping of titles, is the aim of the SPL.

I suspect that the SPL might believe that too now, on the basis that something which the club and the fans oppose so vigorously must be a draconian penalty.

But, of all of the various penalties listed, stripping titles would not cost the Rangers FC a single penny. The issue has already seen the supporters unite behind their team. Even if the commission finds the case proven, and as a result Rangers lose some of their historic titles, this will be seen by the Ibrox faithful as yet more treachery by the football authorities. Bearing in mind that the SPL rules allow various penalties, including the power to expel the club, impose unlimited fines and place a registration embargo on the club, altering the history books is the best thing for Rangers as a business, rather than a penalty which affects them just now.

Posted by Paul McConville – www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com

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Elijah Baley subscriber

1,330 Comments so far

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john clarkePosted on9:52 pm - Aug 12, 2012


And looking at my gravatar I’ve just realised that some people might think it is a ‘bear’!

It is a koala, which is most definitely NOT a bear. (I use it because it’s an icon of Australia, and I had the pleasure and privilege of seeing one in the wild last year).

Thought I had better make that clear.

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BrendaPosted on9:53 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Fritz Agrandoldteam @ 21:50

I’ll second that ……. Every day of the week!!!

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SchneebPosted on10:04 pm - Aug 12, 2012


John clarke says: August 12, 2012 at 21:52

And looking at my gravatar I’ve just realised that some people might think it is a ‘bear’

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Confirmed – it’s not a bear !

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmTvP79A7TJM&v=mTvP79A7TJM&gl=GB

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john clarkePosted on10:10 pm - Aug 12, 2012


fisiani says:
August 12, 2012 at 21:43
‘Can anyone clearly show here the connections between The Rangers FC and the Scottish Football ‘

——
Lots of people are trying, and have some ideas.

But even the Watergate guys needed a ‘Deep Throat’. ( And do we have a proper journalist in the Glasgow-based MSM that any prospective Deep Throat would waste his time talking to?Like hell we do)

When the polis and the Liquidators get access to phone records, including mobile phone records and emails, for the last year or so, quite a lot will be revealed about connections and discussions between this yin and that yin. And office/ mobile phone diaries will show who met whom and when.

It’s going to be great fun when some plea bargaining begins as the weaker brethren begin to talk….
Have no fear. Truth will out.

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StanblackPosted on10:22 pm - Aug 12, 2012


now eejits playing black, he will have to play 4 5 0 when black gets sent off.

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StanblackPosted on10:28 pm - Aug 12, 2012


looking at the Olympics and the success i can’t help but think this is what’s wrong with Scottish football, We give most of out takings to average players. Would Scotland be much worse if we put in a wage cap forcing clubs to use the cash to develop youngsters rather than spend it on third rate imports.

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ELCPosted on10:31 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Closing ceremony has started 1.5 hours ago and still no new statement from the SFA concerning sevco-licenses?

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:34 pm - Aug 12, 2012


john clarke says:
August 12, 2012 at 21:52
4 0 i Rate This

And looking at my gravatar I’ve just realised that some people might think it is a ‘bear’!

It is a koala, which is most definitely NOT a bear. (I use it because it’s an icon of Australia, and I had the pleasure and privilege of seeing one in the wild last year).

Thought I had better make that clear.

=========================================================================

JC…but did you “cuddle” one…?

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goosyPosted on10:36 pm - Aug 12, 2012


I predict
1 The attendance will be well under 10000 possibly under 7000
2 Nobody in the MSM will blame low attendance on corruption

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campsiejoePosted on10:38 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Stanblack @ 22:28

To develop young players you need good coaches, very good coaches, along with the proper facilities
That is where the priority should be initially
Countries who are successful at the Olympics have these as a matter of course

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:38 pm - Aug 12, 2012


john clarke says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:10
3 0 i
Rate This

fisiani says:
August 12, 2012 at 21:43
‘Can anyone clearly show here the connections between The Rangers FC and the Scottish Football ‘

——
Lots of people are trying, and have some ideas.

But even the Watergate guys needed a ‘Deep Throat’. ( And do we have a proper journalist in the Glasgow-based MSM that any prospective Deep Throat would waste his time talking to?Like hell we do)

When the polis and the Liquidators get access to phone records, including mobile phone records and emails, for the last year or so, quite a lot will be revealed about connections and discussions between this yin and that yin. And office/ mobile phone diaries will show who met whom and when.

It’s going to be great fun when some plea bargaining begins as the weaker brethren begin to talk….
Have no fear. Truth will out.

=========================================================================

JC…superbly incisive as always, but, how long have we got?

The wheels of justice grind slowly on…

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:41 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Stanblack says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:28
1 0 i
Rate This

looking at the Olympics and the success i can’t help but think this is what’s wrong with Scottish football, We give most of out takings to average players. Would Scotland be much worse if we put in a wage cap forcing clubs to use the cash to develop youngsters rather than spend it on third rate imports.

====================================================================

Stan…closing ceremony on my doorstep…I could not agree with you more.

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loamfeetPosted on10:51 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Speaking of the Olympics, there’s a nice tribute to the investment vehicle that brought down The Rangers just now.

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StanblackPosted on11:03 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Looks like woody from the bay city rollers has joined oasis

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bad capt madmanPosted on11:04 pm - Aug 12, 2012


SFA structure / President role

How long does the heavily conflicted Mr Ogilvie have left in his tenure?

Its clear he is an official waste of space as, by his own admission, he cannot be involved in dealing with anything related to the biggest issues the SFA face following RFC’s collapse, viz the complications of TRFCs emergence and the financial implications that resulted and will continue to be a factor in future SFA issues, including possible league reconstruction.

Its also clear that clubs have shown no appetite to remove him, so just how long do we have to suffer his presence and waste of salary/expenses? Lets hope there are no automatic renewals of appointments.

Similarly, how long do Mr Regan and Mr Doncaster have left on their contracts? As with the president, clubs have shown no desire to remove them. Perhaps its to save a few bawbees if they were to be bought off, or just that no-one wants the hassle.

Perhaps the SFA structures have the situation nicely in hand, fending off such pressures for change, and in that case, its also clear that the clubs and supporters groups are the only source of pressure and change.

The big picture and the key pressure point is the leadership of the SFA / SFL / SPL, and why many consider them not fit for purpose. Are we getting too distracted by the many individual failings or is this, and are they, a necessary phase in supporters and clubs gathering their motivation and organisation to challenge those in power?

Its understandable with the season starting that fan pressure would diminish. We may have missed an opportunity or two, and can only hope that the forthcoming BDO, police, and dual contract investigations will put the pressure on again.

The replacement of the CEOs and presidents would be necessary to avoid further conflicts of interests though, which could be a useful rallying call for change. We can’t expect or trust those who may be involved to investigate the past or to take things forward.

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TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on11:25 pm - Aug 12, 2012


isnibs on August 12, 2012 at 12:44

The cynic in me would ask are representatives of Dundee and Newcastle particularly newsworthy at the moment?

DiStephano/ Ashley?

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on11:25 pm - Aug 12, 2012


16 days ago many posted on RTC of their wish that in this Olympic year that sporting integrity be upheld.

16 days of excellent Olympic competition – true sport: faster,higher, further – all according to the rules. The best of sport, the best of humanity.

I have faith that sporting integrity will prevail – if the Olympic closing ceremony is anything to go by cheating will not and should not stand in any sport.

Hopefully those truth will out and that all those who come here for good reason will help to shine some sunlight on the corruption that exists in Scottish football, and in the end sunlight will be the best disinfectant.

Good luck to us all.

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pau1mart1nPosted on11:26 pm - Aug 12, 2012


you could be forgiven for thinking that there is a deliberate attempt by the SFA et al to polarise opinion in Scotland.

hope they don’t polarise the bears !

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goosyPosted on11:31 pm - Aug 12, 2012


There is only one reason why Black has been picked
It is to boost attendance at Easter Rd from gullible East based Sevco fans and Black followers from Hearts
The MSM have abandoned any pretence at being anything other than cheerleaders for a deid club
The SFA are following suit
I wouldnt be a bit surprised if Levein was leaned on heavily by the blazers to pick Black
…………
Make no mistake
A derisory attendance at this game is a massive signal to the SFA that corruption is unacceptable

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john clarkePosted on11:34 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:34
‘JC…but did you “cuddle” one…?’
—-
Not exactly. But I was holding my 18- month-old grandaughter when she was allowed , with other little kids at a kind of ‘zoo-day’ , to run her hand down a koala’s back, said koala being held by a very attractive wild-life female warden, whose own back, if I had been a younger man, might have been a sore temptation!
Bless me, father…

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StanblackPosted on11:52 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Scotland had a chance to move on following the RFC debacle and Rangers should have led the way.

Should have, could have.

AS a team they cheated fair competition for at least a decade and that’s forgetting their embarrassing history of excluding fellow Scots because they ‘did not attend the right school’

They could have volunteered to go to division three as a new club and cut themselves adrift of their flawed history. They could have build a new stronger all inclusive rangers team that was open to all and did not carry the oversized baggage of the old regime. They could have built a team based on youth and finally used Murray Park for what it was designed for.

Instead the watp brigade ( twats more like) took over, convinced regan and doncaster that it was the same club and almost managed to stay in the top league minus all debt. Donc and regan tried to manipulate our league to accommodate them without success.

what we now have is the worst of all worlds, the flawed fan base trying with the help of Scottish media to convince the world it is the same club, a club that has not learned a single lesson!!

Signing spl players to play in division 3, rather than bring through their own. If ever a club did not deserve to succeed then sevco are that club.

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john clarkePosted on11:57 pm - Aug 12, 2012


ELC says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:31
‘Closing ceremony has started 1.5 hours ago and still no new statement from the SFA concerning sevco-licenses?’

—-
You’ll need to refresh my memory, please, and I apologise. Were we expecting something from the SFA today?

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rabPosted on11:58 pm - Aug 12, 2012


Trfc included in the closing ceremony. Pheonix rising from the dying flames.

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buckfastswallierPosted on12:04 am - Aug 13, 2012


For me, the story just now is the recent strategic move by David Murray, Ally McCoist, Alex McLeish, Billy Dodds and standing off waiting in the wings, Walter Smith. This is where the heat is.

What David Murray’s most recent ‘move’ said is that he has been forced into making a public statement and has called on his pals to make that statement ‘real’ and meaningful to those who would listen.

Thing is, rfc (formerly known as) fans, see thru Murray now. His credibility is zero.

Notice McCoist’s use of the word ‘probably’ last week in relation to the validity of the investigations into dual contracts.

Murray has asked them to circle the wagons because the threat of the truth is upon him.

If the threat is on him, it also upon his people.

Ally, in his use of the word ‘probably’ is the first to break ranks and the first to try to cover his arse.

Too much has happened, too much has entered a new public domain.

CampsieJoe, I hope you are not right.

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CEPosted on12:06 am - Aug 13, 2012


Great work SFA. We can now add the charge sheet a complete debasing of the Scottish shirt and everything it stands for.

Absolutely no footballing justification for this decision.

Rangers may be dead, but the omnishambles continues apace.

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CEPosted on12:18 am - Aug 13, 2012


Sorry Scotland, but I do not believe I should fund the SFA’s corruption and I cannot attend any Scotland games with a clear conscience.

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Domaine JessiaumePosted on12:23 am - Aug 13, 2012


Goosy says:
August 12, 2012 at 22:36
13 0 Rate This
I predict
1 The attendance will be well under 10000 possibly under 7000
2 Nobody in the MSM will blame low attendance on corruption
============================

On the contrary, they will blame the attendance on disgruntled bears staying away…see? we really do need Rangers/Sevco/The Rangers…

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Lord WobblyPosted on12:29 am - Aug 13, 2012


http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4483969/Signs-aint-good-Ally.html

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QOSmanPosted on12:31 am - Aug 13, 2012


Stanblack says:
August 12, 2012 at 23:52

Another puzzle. If they have convinced the powers that be that they are the same club they should be down 10 points for still being in administration. To no-one’s surprise, they’re not.

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Lord WobblyPosted on12:33 am - Aug 13, 2012


Ex-Collyer Bristow partner Withey to join Rangers trial as
defendant

http://m.thelawyer.com/1013882.article?mobilesite=enabled

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CWPosted on12:33 am - Aug 13, 2012


Thanks SFA and Mr Levein. I was really looking forward to the new World Cup campaign. Why did you have to split the support again ? (6-4-0, also Fletcher !)

Question ! When was the last time a 3rd Division Player played for Scotland ? That is what Black is, a 3rd Div Player. This was his choice ! Same as Wallace, Broadfoot, etc. Their choice means they are playing Brechin, East Fife and Peterhead every week (no disrespect) for big bucks.

Their Choice should also mean they are not getting the real test they deserve to be in a Scotland Squad trying to qualify for The World Cup.

I think it’s time Messr’s Reagan and Levein left the stage to someone who has the cajonies to grab the game by the neck and breathe new life into it. This pair obviously don’t, along with their counterpart along the corridor in The SPL (Mr Doncaster).

Time to give it up boys, I might hear the result of the Australia game after it happens, but it will be by pure accident, cos I sure won’t be that interested in it now !

This close season must surely have been the worst ever in Scottish Football. Skullduggery doesn’t even get a look in !

Absolutely Shamefull !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Domaine JessiaumePosted on12:36 am - Aug 13, 2012


To think that the jersey worn with distinction by Law, Jimmy Johnstone, Baxter, Dalglish, Bremner and the likes should be debased by being handed to Black…and the timing is perfect because the fans will have paid for their tickets already, so they will go anyway.

I thought more of Levein, than that he should allow himself to be strong-armed into a squalid arrangement like this.

It is truly sickening to see that all of your worst and most paranoid fears are actually true.

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tearsofjoyPosted on12:39 am - Aug 13, 2012


So now we’re not going to watch Scotland because Levein is picking “Rangers” players ?
Reallly ? Picking Ian Black is the final straw for some folks on here ? It’s laughable.

How about NOT going to ANY games in Glasgow for any SFL/SFA cup ties ? How about a boycott of Hampden ?

In the meantime petty comments about Ian Black abound – a guy who is still in the junior leagues of viciousness & thuggery when compared to Lennon & Sutton.

And from my censored original post – may I add John Hartson.

I didn’t see Parkhead emptying when these guys were playing. Quite the reverse.

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paulmacPosted on12:39 am - Aug 13, 2012


Ian Black…the things they will do to encourage rangers fans to turn up for Scotland games..

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Lord WobblyPosted on12:45 am - Aug 13, 2012


tearsofjoy says:
August 13, 2012 at 00:39
0 0 Rate This
In the meantime petty comments about Ian Black abound – a guy who is still in the junior leagues of viciousness & thuggery when compared to Lennon & Sutton.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where on earth do you get this from? Have a look at Lennon’s disciplinary record as a player… then come back and apologise.

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Ordinary FanPosted on12:46 am - Aug 13, 2012


This move to call up Black is pretty disgraceful. The thing that really gets on my nerves about all the blatant tactics to link Rangers Tribute Act FC to RFC, is the fact they genuinely believe football fans are so dumb we will be taken in by this waffle. Scottish Football is still being held back by The Establishment who need “a Rangers” to feed their egos and line their pockets. Parasites.

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kellsPosted on12:47 am - Aug 13, 2012


Corruption within the SFA just know no levels nowadays just when you think you have seen them stoop to new lows they prove they can dive even lower .for years young promising footballers with talent were ignored for the thugs of old sevco
Seems new div 3 sevco will still be aided at all levels by a rancid corrupt organization and puppet Scotland team manager was going to put they should hang there heads in shame but it would seem to be still at gutter level

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CEPosted on12:47 am - Aug 13, 2012


Craig Levein last week:

“The best scenario is for players to be playing at the top level to play international football. It makes it so much easier to step from one to the other.”

“It is very difficult for anyone playing in the Third Division in Scotland to be up to the speed of an international match.”

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paulmacPosted on12:49 am - Aug 13, 2012


tearsofjoy says:
August 13, 2012 at 00:39
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No!…..what you have just posted is laughable…sober up!

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CWPosted on12:50 am - Aug 13, 2012


Tearofjoy,

2 things about Mr Black,

1. He is not a “Rangers” player, “Rangers” don’t exist anymore !

2. He is a 3rd Division Player !

Ramsden’s Cup is his speciality, not World Cup Qualifiers. The point is, he has decided where his aspirations lie ! He has no place in a Scotland Strip so sought after by so many other, honest aspiring players who deserve it better !

Time to change the tune pal, look at the reality !

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Senior

SeniorPosted on12:54 am - Aug 13, 2012


This is our first oppotunity to have direct input on how Scottish football is administered. There is no point constantly carping on here about the low standards at Hamden Park if we turn around and support these same jokers by attending this week’s friendly. Not only that, I would ask everyone on here to email, blog, contact fellow decent supporters to boycott the game. This boycott is one of the very few cards we hold, lets use it and get the word out to the football world at large that the ordinary decent Scottish fan is no fool. .

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MarkyBhoyPosted on12:59 am - Aug 13, 2012


Scotland had a chance to move on following the RFC debacle and Rangers should have led the way.

Should have, could have.

AS a team they cheated fair competition for at least a decade and that’s forgetting their embarrassing history of excluding fellow Scots because they ‘did not attend the right school’

They could have volunteered to go to division three as a new club and cut themselves adrift of their flawed history. They could have build a new stronger all inclusive rangers team that was open to all and did not carry the oversized baggage of the old regime. They could have built a team based on youth and finally used Murray Park for what it was designed for.

Instead the watp brigade ( twats more like) took over, convinced regan and doncaster that it was the same club and almost managed to stay in the top league minus all debt. Donc and regan tried to manipulate our league to accommodate them without success.

what we now have is the worst of all worlds, the flawed fan base trying with the help of Scottish media to convince the world it is the same club, a club that has not learned a single lesson!!

Signing spl players to play in division 3, rather than bring through their own. If ever a club did not deserve to succeed then sevco are that club.

———————————————————————————————

Worse than that; is the word no one wants to say, and with good reason, but I’m gonnae.
And that word is internecine. This is the future of our game. A long, tiresome, infuriating road lies before us.

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john clarkePosted on12:59 am - Aug 13, 2012


Stanblack says:
August 12, 2012 at 23:52
—–
‘Scotland had a chance to move on following the RFC debacle and Rangers should have led the way………’
——-
Stanblack, a golden opportunity was missed, undoubtedly.

The history books will show that , ultimately, the soul of the old club had no decency, but was stuck in warp of long past, totally irrelevant history ( much of that, even, wholly misunderstood).

There was a golden chance for the ownership of the new club to begin the process of creating a new soul, far removed from the damned soul of the old club.

Unfortunately, that ownership pursued the barra-boy path. Bugger the soul, let’s get the cash.

Instead , therefore, of bending every effort in an attempt to create a new, modern, commercial but sporting enterprise, thoroughly cleansed of all sectarian vileness, the owner of the new club acted with further hubris, and encouraged the very worst of the vile elements, in an attempt to gain their support in intimidating the football authorities.

And those attempts continue still, aided and abetted by some in the higher reaches of football administration.

How different it could have been!

If the owner of the new club had positively said ” we are a new, clean, honest, non-sectarian, non-racist club. We not want among our supporters people who sing offensively ( and inaccurately) about long ago, wholly misunderstood, battles between fn kings who didn’t care a tuppenny toss for the men who died for them so misguidedly”, then perhaps, the tide of revulsion against them would have ebbed, and a more ordinary acceptance of them would have ensued.

That acceptance, if merited , would have seen the new club gain the respect of all, and retain the affection of many, while it left the contemptible , incorrigible evil element to spit its venom elsewhere..

I fear it is now too late.

The new club will die, ingloriously. before the end of the season.

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StarofdavidPosted on1:08 am - Aug 13, 2012


Endemic corruption at the heart of the Scottish football establishment.
Systematic cheating amounting to ACTUAL match fixing
Lie deflect deny on a scale not seen previously in the annuls of footballing history
A compliant domicile media in servitude to their masters

And to top it all, 50 shades of blue whyte green brown and now black- a rainbow coalition of putrid rotting excrement. Go to Hades the lot of you- you make me ashamed to be Scottish.

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CEPosted on1:23 am - Aug 13, 2012


tearsofjoy on August 13, 2012 at 00:39

So now we’re not going to watch Scotland because Levein is picking “Rangers” players ?

————————

Yes, exactly. Leaving aside Black’s limited ability(Bryson, Fyvie, and McLean would all have been better shouts off the top of my head), As Levein himself has already stated, 3rd Division players should not be considered for the national team, no matter who they play for. Without fear of favour. 🙄

Black’s call up highlights the continued murky relationship between ‘Rangers’ and the corrupt SFA. As much as it sickens me to do so, I will not fund such an organisation.

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rabPosted on1:24 am - Aug 13, 2012


I wonder if the chubby chappies inept management has brought the slow trickle of Trfc season tickets to a juddering halt. Just how much income will the fat frank spencer of football management be allowed to lose before he loses his job.

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CWPosted on1:30 am - Aug 13, 2012


John Clarke,

The fact is they are were they are. The trouble is, they can’t accept where they are !

I don’t mind that. As a Non-Old Firm supporter, I find it quite usual. Probably going to get a load of flak for this, but Celtic Supporters are of a similiar mindset !

My grief is with the SFA and SPL for dragging this on all summer. Dundee for example have had no time to prepare for their season. Did the SFA and SPL care, not a jot !

This was because they alway’s hoped that they could still sneak the old club Formely Known as Rangers back in the Big Time !

Sadly for them, it wasn’t to be, so Dundee got their 5 minutes notice that they were in (p.s. I personally thought that Dunfermline should have got the nod !).

Going back to the SFA/ SPL, armageddon should be applied to them instead. How are both Chief Exec’s still in their jobs, it is beyond belief.

All Summer, with this charade, it was like watching a Carry On Film, with all it’s Double Entendres.

Thats a point, who would be the main characters ?

Feel free to fill in the blanks below, and also to add any characters I may have missed :

Kenneth Williams :
Joan Sims :
Charles Hawtrey :
Sid James :
Kenneth Connor :
Peter Butterworth :
Hattie Jacques :
Bernard Bresslaw
Jim Dale :
Barbara Windsor :
Patsy Rowlands :
Jack Douglas :
Terry Scott :
Leslie Phillips :
Bill Maynard :
Phil Silvers :

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Doon the slopePosted on1:32 am - Aug 13, 2012


I wasn’t going to go to the Scotland match because it would be impossible as I live in a foreign country.

But now I am not going to go as a protest against corruption in Scottish football.

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rabPosted on1:33 am - Aug 13, 2012


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17078759

Say what you want about ian black, once he’s past the white lines he has a huge engine.

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CWPosted on1:48 am - Aug 13, 2012


rab says:

August 13, 2012 at 01:33

Rate This

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17078759

Say what you want about ian black, once he’s past the white lines he has a huge engine.

======================================================================

Rab,

That was priceless. Just about sums it up. Perhaps that’s the reason he never got his contract extended at Hearts, and maybe why no one else wanted to sign him, except Sevco, who are quite desperate !

I also thought that Mr Levein had morales as well. Not a good example to youngsters, or parents of youngsters, reading that !

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Fritz AgrandoldteamPosted on2:00 am - Aug 13, 2012


I think it is now safe to predict that if sevco can survive, long enough, (both on, and off the park), there will be two “old firm” cup meetings this season – both at ibrokes.

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TSFMPosted on2:01 am - Aug 13, 2012


I can’t for the life of me understand the value to the SFA or anyone else in selecting Black for Scotland. Judgements on his ability are all subjective of course, but there are some matters of fact, like what many will perceive as his curious lack of sporting ambition in choosing to play in a lower league instead of testing himself against better players; or like his chosen level of competition being unsatisfactory preparation for international football.

That said, I think it is unwise to pinpoint Black’s selection as an excuse to boycott Scotland matches. Whatever else has happened here, it is a drop in the ocean compared to the corruption and campaign of misinformation we have been subject to over the summer.

Whilst we all wring our hands in frustration at the Black situation, I wonder what new legislative creativity it is designed to distract us from?

Black is not the real villain here. An onfield pantomime one perhaps, but he is not to blame for the systematic breakdown of governance in the game. We should keep our eyes on the ball.

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TSFMPosted on2:33 am - Aug 13, 2012


I have tidied up The List Page. Please feel free to add/suggest amendment.

http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/the-list/

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EnfakidPosted on2:36 am - Aug 13, 2012


CW says:
August 13, 2012 at 0

Sadly for them, it wasn’t to be, so Dundee got their 5 minutes notice that they were in (p.s. I personally thought that Dunfermline should have got the nod !)

—————————————————————————————-

What actually was the SPL’s reason for promoting Dundee over Dunfermline? All I have heard is some vague statement regards sporting merit. However how does that work, Dunfermline were a very poor side finishing 6 (?) points behind their nearest competitor in the SPL whilst Dundee were 20 points adrift in the promotion challenge in division 1.

Have they ever given an explanation? Where the SPL clubs asked for an opinion?

Yet another case of making the rules up as you go along.

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EnfakidPosted on4:07 am - Aug 13, 2012


earsofjoy says:
August 13, 2012 at 00:39

So now we’re not going to watch Scotland because Levein is picking “Rangers” players ?
Reallly ? Picking Ian Black is the final straw for some folks on here ? It’s laughable.

——————————————————————————————————

Ian Black is actually a quite good player, i am happy to see him in the Scotland squad.

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mohandiseenPosted on4:13 am - Aug 13, 2012


Green quoted as saying Celtic have 3 different company names.

When did he say that?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/doubts-remain-but-charles-green-has-completed-a-pr-transformation.18574736

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mohandiseenPosted on4:14 am - Aug 13, 2012


Sorry that should read “have had”

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EnfakidPosted on4:21 am - Aug 13, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
August 12, 2012 at 15:08

alex thomson
@alextomo
Souness’s lawyer will ask him soonest why he got EBT 30k 10y after leaving fmr RFC? If Souness answers/refuses, you’ll know either way

———————————————————————

This is your evidence, come on man, this mob justice at its worst, Alex thomson made that statement 3 or 4 months ago, has he followed up on it?

No! has RTC or Barcabhoy detonated the nuclear bomb! No!

Why because they know you do not accuse somebody without evidence,

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mechyfitterPosted on5:04 am - Aug 13, 2012


Zilch @ 1615 hrs,
Very good post;time will tell whether HRMC/BDO have a few aces up their sleeve that will deliver some recompense to the smaller business’s and creditors who have lost money,and any persons found acting illegally in this toxic affair are charged and summoned to the courts.
It is very hard to fathom that the assets of old rfc were given to CG for 5.5 million,well below what D + P would have received if sold on the open market,or have I missed something?
Unfortunately,IMO,I beleive that politicians on both sides of the border have been in cahoots with HMRC/Treasurey,and the SFA.with their prime objective to keep old rfc alive.The majority of the MSM toe the line,and at most oppurtunities peddle their disinformation to the public trying to convince them old rfc still exist as a football body
Where are the various reports that should have been made public by now,e.g. D + P report to Lord Hodge,Nimmo-Smith report,etc,etc….The whole thing stinks

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stunneyPosted on5:42 am - Aug 13, 2012


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/mcgregors-move-to-besiktas-on-hold-following-challenge.18555129

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on6:05 am - Aug 13, 2012


My weekly winners and losers
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/winners-and-losers-august-13th/

Am fully expecting Rory McAllister to be called up, now that the 3rd division is accepted as a high enough standard for international football.

I could just about understand if he (black) was a recognized international… but he isn’t. He isn’t even close. A hard working, battering ram of a midfielder – don’t we have tons of those? Don’t we need someone with a bit of skill and finesse?

However, as TSFM rightly said above, this is merely a distraction from the blatant corruption happening under our noses. What bad news is scheduled today?

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on6:19 am - Aug 13, 2012


From BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19225704

” They included Yann Bouchez from the magazine So Foot.
“Many people in France only know Rangers and Celtic from Scotland,” he said.
“We came up on a bus with 50 Rangers fans who were in good voice.
“French people cannot believe that this has happened to such a big club as they think it is like this happening to Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain or Benfica or Sporting Lisbon in Portugal.

“We feel Rangers are too big to fail so it’s a big surprise in France. ”

Anyone who can write in french may want to correct them on who ‘The Rangers’ actually are! Contacts below:

Managing Editor Franck Annese franck.annese @ sofoot.com
Editors Pierre Maturana pierre.maturana @ sofoot.com
Maxime Marchon maxime.marchon @ sofoot.com

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EnfakidPosted on6:21 am - Aug 13, 2012


stevensanph says:
August 13, 2012 at 06:05

I could just about understand if he (black) was a recognized international… but he isn’t. He isn’t even close

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I do not understand this animosity towards Ian Black. Yes he is not International quality but how many in the Scotland squad are? My only fear is that he will get sent off in his first game, if he can control his aggression and just play football i think he will do ok.

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on6:49 am - Aug 13, 2012


Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 06:21

“I do not understand this animosity towards Ian Black. Yes he is not International quality…”

Nail. Hit. On Head.

FWIW, in my opinion, if Wallace was in the squad there would be a lot less questions being asked. As TSFM said above – what is this news being used to hide?

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:56 am - Aug 13, 2012


Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 04:21
0 2 Rate This
Lord Wobbly says:
August 12, 2012 at 15:08
alex thomson
@alextomo
Souness’s lawyer will ask him soonest why he got EBT 30k 10y
after leaving fmr RFC? If Souness answers/refuses, you’ll know
either way
———————————————————————
This is your evidence, come on man, this mob justice at its worst,
Alex thomson made that statement 3 or 4 months ago, has he
followed up on it?
No! has RTC or Barcabhoy detonated the nuclear bomb! No!
Why because they know you do not accuse somebody without
evidence,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mob justice? Are you serious? Respected journalist/broadcaster Mark Daly has investigated and then produced at least two programmes about the cheating at Rangers. As a result a number of people were named as recipients of EBT payments, among them one Graeme Souness. On the back of that, Alex Thomson asked that Mr Souness explain why he received £30k ten years after leaving RFC. All very reasonable and a long way from mob justice.

Why hasn’t Mr Souness replied? Why hasn’t someone…anyone…from the former club come out and explained why the money was paid? I’m sure there is a very simple answer, so why not reveal the details and put the whole thing (regarding Souness) to bed?

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stunneyPosted on6:58 am - Aug 13, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/teenager-held-over-sectarian-singing-1-2464495

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BrendaPosted on7:04 am - Aug 13, 2012


Re McGregor’s move to Besiktas being held up? Have oldco paid back all the players wages owed from the wage cut they accepted a few months back?? They don’t seem to have paid ANYONE ELSE!!
.
.

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EnfakidPosted on7:08 am - Aug 13, 2012


Fans Against Corruption says:

But abandon it I will, because I will not be taken for a fool by this contemptable, risable, predictable bunch.

————————————————————————————————————

All of this emotion because the Scotland manager picks a rangers (newco) player? Would you have been so distressed and dramatic had Ian Black still been a Hearts player?

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MDCCCLXXXVIIIPosted on7:45 am - Aug 13, 2012


Totally baffled by the inclusion of Black in to the Scotland squad. Baffled because I thought Levein was intelligent enough to stay out of all this newco/oldco crap, particularly after his recent comments re; 3rd division players and their suitability for playing at international level.

All respect for Levein has gone – can he seriously regard Black as international class now, after 1 3rd division league match, when he couldn’t get close whilst playing for Hearts/ICT.

None of this makes any sense – his inclusion is hardly likely to attract thousands of newco fans to the friendly international.

Speaking of friendly internationals, this could all become a moot point anyway. Historically, oldco Rangers players didn’t do friendlies. The newco have a couple of big cup matches against Falkirk looming, cue a niggling calf strain or an ankle knock picked up in training.

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stephane grappelliPosted on7:46 am - Aug 13, 2012


On black, it was clear from his Scottish cup final analysis that levein had him in mind. the big teams, especially down south, don’t like the august international date so he’s probably just picked a player he likes over upsetting another manager by taking another player and disrupting the start of their season.

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on7:50 am - Aug 13, 2012


Enfakid says:

August 13, 2012 at 04:21

The nuclear button is an option of last resort – a deterrant – letting others know that you have a nuclear weapon and that you are prepaired to use it is enough.

This suggests to me that the evidence is out there.

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EnfakidPosted on7:55 am - Aug 13, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
August 13, 2012 at 06:56

Mob justice? Are you serious? Respected journalist/broadcaster Mark Daly has investigated and then produced at least two programmes about the cheating at Rangers. As a result a number of people were named as recipients of EBT payments, among them one Graeme Souness. On the back of that, Alex Thomson asked that Mr Souness explain why he received £30k ten years after leaving RFC. All very reasonable and a long way from mob justice.

————————————————————————————————————

Well that is a tad disingenuous, you know full well that I have no issue regarding the fact that Souness receiving an EBT loan. I have also stated it would be interesting to know why he received such a loan after being away from the club for so long, though that is not necessarily unusual or inappropriate.

Why hasn’t Mr Souness replied? Why hasn’t someone…anyone…from the former club come out and explained why the money was paid? I’m sure there is a very simple answer, so why not reveal the details and put the whole thing (regarding Souness) to bed?

————————————————————————————————

I would suggest as the BTC is still ongoing he is probably adhering to legal advice.

———————————————————————————————————

Mob justice?

Is when you take a snippet of information and irresponsibly spread it around the internet leading to the ignorant and uniformed to conjure up conspiracy theories that have the potential to damage a persons reputation.

If you do not have the evidence, then keep your mouth shut.

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Lord WobblyPosted on8:22 am - Aug 13, 2012


Enfakid says:
August 13, 2012 at 07:08
0 7 Rate This
Fans Against Corruption says:
But abandon it I will, because I will not be taken for a fool by this contemptable, risable, predictable bunch.
————————————————————————
All of this emotion because the Scotland manager picks a rangers (newco) player? Would you have been so distressed and dramatic had Ian Black still been a Hearts player?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s an interesting question. It also answers the question (partly at least). If Ian Black wasn’t good enough while at Hearts, how can he suddenly be good enough after a couple of less than impressive appearances for an SFL3 club? Just like The Rangers FC being elevated above its status and into SFL3, more deserving cases are put aside to crowbar Black into the international set-up.

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thewestlightPosted on8:36 am - Aug 13, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
August 13, 2012 at 07:50

The nuclear button is an option of last resort – a deterrant

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Do you think it is working?

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thewestlightPosted on8:40 am - Aug 13, 2012


Could it be that black is the only one of sevcos scots internationals who is legally entitled to play for scotland?

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