Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

ByTrisidium

Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove

At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.

To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.

The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.

Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.

2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.

On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.

St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.

By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.

It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.

Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.

Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.

In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.

So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.

Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.

Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.

European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.

Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.

Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.

It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.

Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.

By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.

Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.

Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.

So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’

The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.

Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.

Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.

We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.

It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.

Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,744 Comments so far

torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:36 pm - Nov 15, 2012


wottpi says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 13:24
====================================================================
This is what we don’t know.
Was the £5.5m to purchase the club borrowed?
Imran Amhed stated that the consortium had put in £10m.if that’s a loan repayable on the share issue then said issue needs to raise that £10m plus CGs expected loss of £3.5 just to stand still.throw in Chuckies 10% and more than £15m must be the target.
Like you say though,we don’t know all the facts.
Question for our legal team(welcome back,Slimshady).
Must all these details be included in the prospectus?.

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ordinaryfanPosted on1:37 pm - Nov 15, 2012


johnboy5088 says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 13:26
Shocking statement from Paul.
It’s “THE” Rangers Football Club Limited. Tsk, tsk.

Could the emission of “The” be intentional??

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:42 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc

Celtic are delighted to announce Tony Watt has signed a new contract that will see him remain at the club until at least summer 2016.

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ordinaryfanPosted on1:46 pm - Nov 15, 2012


KDS….Quiet Assasin
15 Nov 2012, 01:34 PM
Did Charles Green ask for Celtic’s permission to use our badge in his presentation?

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endgame2012Posted on1:50 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Being the web of course things like injunctions and interdicts are rarely productive. For those who have missed the Scotslaw articles go to Google and enter:

cache:http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/the-rangers-football-club-plc-initial-public-offering-presentation-pages-1-3/

cache:http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/the-rangers-football-club-plc-initial-public-offering-presentation-pages-4-7/

cache:http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/the-rangers-football-club-plc-initial-public-offering-presentation-pages-8-10/

in the search window.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:10 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Don’t know if there’s anything in this but just appeared on KDS:

Rumours on twitter that the FTT decision is out.

Proper Gander ‏@THE_TBK
FTT(T) arrived!!!!! Account going back into ‘lockdown’. May post up some redacted elements!! #ProperGander

TBK is a respected RTC poster.

Don’t know what he means by the redacted elements (and yes, I know what ‘redacted’ means!).

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:13 pm - Nov 15, 2012


http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/on-a-busy-day-another-correction/

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Long Time LurkerPosted on2:16 pm - Nov 15, 2012


From KDS

Tiny Tim15 Nov 2012, 02:57 PM
Rumours on twitter that the FTT decision is out.
Proper Gander ‏@THE_TBK
FTT(T) arrived!!!!! Account going back into ‘lockdown’. May post up some redacted elements!! #ProperGander

TBK is a respected RTC poster.

Don’t know what he means by the redacted elements (and yes, I know what ‘redacted’ means!).

Can’t see the decision on
http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/Aspx/default.aspx or http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2012/

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spanishceltPosted on2:21 pm - Nov 15, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 13:07

It has also to be seen if TRFC fans will turn up in such numbers as,firstly, the novelty will have worn off.Secondly,there will be no material investment in the playing squad and thirdly,if Chuckles is to be believed,the average ST price will jump by approx £50 next season.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Theres also an issue of the “free” 5 to 10 thousand seats given away each week, I would think a considerable number of this seasons season ticket holders (paying fans) might just decide not to bother renewing and just wait for the freebies dropping through the letter box.
If I had bought say a s.t. for me the wife and two or three kids and there were several thousand round about me all getting freebies every home game then I might just be inclined to wait to see if I was added to the list.
There have been reports of ex multiple season ticket holding households getting regularly 5 and 6 tickets for games.
This whole charade will in time implode but Charlies only concern is keeping it going until he has handed it over to the fans through a private issue, he will then walk away very quickly with pockets full, investors repaid and claim he fulfilled all his promises.

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ordinaryfanPosted on2:21 pm - Nov 15, 2012


KDS: celticfcblog 28 Oct 2012, 10:25 PM Post #18 [Tweet]

Rebel Oracle
Group:
Snr. Member
cartuja
28 Oct 2012, 10:06 PM
Cartuja:: Did the speculation that Ticketus lent Green the initial £5.5M purchase price come to anything?

What are you hearing, Cartuja?

As for the Big Tax Case, I was told yesterday that HMRC will be looking to prosecute former RFC PLC RIP directors for “malfeasance”.
Which may be why Sir Minty is selling up fast and shoving all his cash into offshore trusts.
I also heard that the verdict has been ready for a while but its publication has been delayed “by special request”.

(2 superb and well informed posters BTW)

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angus1983Posted on2:21 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 12:15

…might be some kind of honey trap for said bloggers. It says something like “it is forbidden that this presentation and contents be divulged other than to those who it is aimed at.”
——

I can’t seem to access the original document now, but if that’s all it says then I’d suggest that statement doesn’t look very enforceable.

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SeniorPosted on2:23 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Woaa, can we slow this train down, my head is nearly done in. Will somebody explain in chronological order and in layman’s language what is happening at this point in time.

Is the power-point authentic? Has P Mc been hobbled? Has the Nimmo report commenced? What is the state of play with all the other reports.
The thought has just occurred to me that we should start a ticking clock on all these so called investigations, something like Brenda attempted with the SFA statement. If someone could go back and seek out the dates these reports and investigations were initiated then we could update the clock every other day.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:45 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Senior says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 14:23
===========================================================
Powerpoint-Seems real but no one really knows.
P McC-No,according to himself.
Nimmo-postponed due to car crash.Roddy McKenzie QC injured in serious crah.No future date as yet.
Other Reports-who knows.

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wottpiPosted on2:46 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Senior says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 14:23

Same Powerpoint cover slide that was on the link provided here yesterday seen in a pile of papers on STV promo film and on last nights Scotland Tonight. At same time cover and a few internal pages of Cenkos’s brokers notes shown. No challenge to the authenticity of the documents and Mr Charles seemed to be happy to give a pre-recorded interview to STV on the contents so looks like the Powerpoint was pukka.

Paul McConville has not been hobbled, just a rumour and there was an apparently a technical hitch with his blog/website.

Lord Nimmo Smith delayed due to partner in Harper McLeod, who are presenting evidence of their investiagtions into the ‘dual contracts’, being injured in a fatal road accident the other week. No word as yet when it will be rescheduled.

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ordinaryfanPosted on2:59 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Hope the guy involved in the accident from Harper McLeod is o.k.

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SmugasPosted on3:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Senior says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 14:23

OR

its got a bit smelly and someone somewhere is paddling furiously but

a/ appears ill equipped
b/ their efforts are ineffective against a tide of popular opinion verging on, actually backed up by fact
c/ they don’t appear to like it one bit.

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angus1983Posted on3:34 pm - Nov 15, 2012


RM getting quite excited about apparent exposure of an RTC blogger by everyone’s favourite socially responsible Bear, Mr Chris Graham …

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=242057&st=0

I thought RM had actually been closed down. It appears not. Perhaps a thread like that one should be brought to the attention of the relevant authorities.

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Bill1903Posted on3:43 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Some of the comments on RM are just unbelievable
What a vile lot

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thebasharmilestegPosted on3:43 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Bah Angus you made me look on RM. Will need to take a shower now just to wash the dirt off.

Really when you see some of the comments and realise that these are the articulate ones who have computers and can write (well a bit) it makes you realise that the only decent end game for the whole thing will be Ibrox a Tesco, MP a golf course and the car park well, er a car park.

Bring it on!

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AlthetimPosted on3:47 pm - Nov 15, 2012


This from a commentor on rangersmedia concerning the “outing” of RTC

“The thing is I ain’t to bothered about what this guys name is, I am more bothered about how he got all the info he seemed to post as from what I remember a lot of it was far too accurate.”

Far too accurate? How the phuque can you be FAR TOO ACCURATE?

Would the poster prefer to be fed less accurate information and for the truth to remain hidden in the bowels of the big hoose? Rhetorical question.

Some of the other comments on rangersmedia require the attention of the authorities.

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neepheidPosted on3:56 pm - Nov 15, 2012


angus1983 says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 15:34

I thought RM had actually been closed down. It appears not. Perhaps a thread like that one should be brought to the attention of the relevant authorities.
================
That thread is not extreme by the standards of RM. Which does make you wonder why the police aren’t taking a closer interest in this bile factory.

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smartie1947Posted on4:00 pm - Nov 15, 2012


For those that aren’t sure

FTT = First Tax Tribunal
or Far Too Technical
or Faking The Trusts
or Fiddling The Taxman

or F—ing Takes Time.

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manandboyPosted on4:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


I’ve just been into RM.

I felt I was in the company of evil.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on4:13 pm - Nov 15, 2012


well, did Alloa receive their money?

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seanebhoyPosted on4:20 pm - Nov 15, 2012


I actually feel genuine concern for the person that has been named.

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patsymcd1888Posted on4:27 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Have also been on the RM and feel sick to the pit of my stomache, but being honest the vileness of these moronic people has crept into the workplace and around everybody locally in the West of Scotland, you can definately smell the hostilities in the air, and even more worringly is the relevant authorities continue to remain silent.
All of a sudden people you used to have a chat with about football are now treating you as an enemy if you dont support TRFC. Things are going to get right out of hand if these thugs are allowed to continue with their vile ways.

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redlichtiePosted on4:54 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Why is no legal disinfectant sprayed over these vile comments? How can people get away with such things?

If I behaved on the street in such a manner I would be arrested…

Are the authorities blind? Is there no appetite for upholding standards of decency?

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gazpopsPosted on5:01 pm - Nov 15, 2012


What’s so odd – and always has been – is that the rage at RTC is so misguided. Apart from telling the truth I have never seen RTC use his knowledge to manipulate people, peepil or clubs or companies. he has, quite simple, told the truth.

Ironic, bittersweet even..but one day the Sevco fans will see him as their saviour.

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waco (@waco61)Posted on5:13 pm - Nov 15, 2012


the reason RM has not been shut down is down to the fact a lot of strathclydes finest post on it, i personal know of 4 posters who are with SP ,they post regularly on it and their political leanings are suspect, one guy argued that the holocaust was a lie put out by jews at the end of ww2 ,i kind you not, i had a stand up argument that got rather heated a couple of years before he left our work to become a member of strathclydes finest,ran into him a few weeks ago in the city center ,

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paulmac2Posted on5:17 pm - Nov 15, 2012


neepheid says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 15:56
12 0 i Rate This

angus1983 says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 15:34

I thought RM had actually been closed down. It appears not. Perhaps a thread like that one should be brought to the attention of the relevant authorities.
================
That thread is not extreme by the standards of RM. Which does make you wonder why the police aren’t taking a closer interest in this bile factory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That may involve the Police investigating fellow officers 🙂

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angus1983Posted on5:36 pm - Nov 15, 2012


There are a few posters on that thread who are talking some kind of sense, and seem a bit perturbed at the comments of their fellows.

The latest guy stated he was kind of interested, but that’s as far as it went – then asked what people would intend to do if the name mentioned turned out to be correct.

“Possibly legal action”, came the reply.

Legal action?

Then another bright spark came in with:

“It’s be a bit silly them telling anyone who wants to know, right here, on a public board – would it not?”

What could he mean by that?

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wottpiPosted on5:51 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Paul McConville says the guy named is not RTC

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/on-a-busy-day-another-correction/

On a day when the BBC look like having to pay out to Lord MacAlpine or face legal action and his solicitors are talking about going after folk on twitter you would have thought the Bears on RM may have been more careful, given their track record, about what they say and do.

They also fail to act in accordance with the guidance given at the top of their message board

“Jadams posted the following a while ago, recent events mean I’m posting it again. Without going into detail, suffice to say the police (specifically FoCUS) are paying close attention to posts on RM and are likely to ask for personal details of anyone making threats in posts. We cannot monitor every post, please be aware you can be held responsible for what you post. If you see a post that could be interpreted as a threat, or are concerned about something you’ve posted, please alert the moderator/admin team.

The rules are here, please read them and protect yourselves by posting within the law

If you are in anyway unsure of what you can and cannot say, or what details RM may have to provide to police, please PM one of the moderator/admin team.”

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ecobhoyPosted on5:54 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Well to lighten the atmosphere a little it really is worth listening to: http://glasgowradio.blogspot.co.uk/ as Tommy Gold speaks to a ‘Main Man’ at Cenkos and we find out about the presentation document leak and investing in Rangers.

And Good News for Imran Ahmad the Rangers Director whose star appeared to be on the wane – btw Ahmad also got the treatment from Tommy Gold and took it in really good humour. Imran was also MD at Zeus Capital and Green claims that he was introduced to Rangers by Imran.

However, you might remember that back on 17 October, Mr Yorkshire declared when welcoming Imran to his new position as Commercial Director at Rangers he stated: ‘‘For Imran to leave his post at Zeus to join us is a very good step for the club’.

Zeus Capital has responded to unprecedented enquiries apparently to clear-up any dubiety and confirmed that Imran still retains his position at Zeus Capital and that Brian Stockbridge – currently a Rangers Director – also retains his directorship at Zeus.

Oh Dear 🙂

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StevieBCPosted on6:02 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
The rumour about FTT not getting released seems very unlikely. No mechanism in tribunal rules to withhold a decision.

8m Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
A day of mad rumours and ill informed speculation. Is it a full moon?

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on6:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Breaking news on Twitter:

Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase

For the record, I am not Rangers Tax Case. 🙂

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vforvernacularPosted on6:15 pm - Nov 15, 2012


waco (@waco61) says:

Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 17:13

the reason RM has not been shut down is down to the fact a lot of strathclydes finest post on it, i personal know of 4 posters who are with SP ,they post regularly on it and their political leanings are suspect, one guy argued that the holocaust was a lie put out by jews at the end of ww2 ,i kind you not, i had a stand up argument that got rather heated a couple of years before he left our work to become a member of strathclydes finest,ran into him a few weeks ago in the city center

—————————————————————————

Waco, I have no reason to doubt you. I have to say that if you know of such people who are serving police officers linked to making posts on this particular site then I honestly think that should be raised with the appropriate bodies. We shouldn’t stand by while our police officers show such blatant disregard for proper behaviour.

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Danish PastryPosted on6:19 pm - Nov 15, 2012


From @rangerstaxcase:
@rangerstaxcase: A day of mad rumours and ill informed speculation. Is it a full moon?

So in the short interregnum between rumours, congratulations to St Johnstone with their first Scotland cap in eight decades!

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auchinstarryPosted on6:26 pm - Nov 15, 2012


I wonder if STV performed a background check on Mr Graham who appeared on their flagship news/documentary prog last night? If this was indeed carried out then they have the same problem as Newsnight. This cretin should never be allowed near a mainstream audience given his continuous hate filled rants on RM.
Perhaps his brand of Bigotry is becoming acceptable in Scottish T.V. circles.
Guilty by Association.

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jonnyodPosted on6:28 pm - Nov 15, 2012


ecobhoy 17.54
Oh dear, doesn’t quite do your little snippet justice IMO
Dear oh ,dear ,oh dear……. oh dearie me this will not do ,no ,no, no this won’t do at all , maybe more appropriate

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mirrenmanPosted on6:59 pm - Nov 15, 2012


The irrefutable logic of a Rangers Media blogger. 😉

j1mgg
The thing is I ain’t to bothered about what this guys name is, I am more bothered about how he got all the info he seemed to post as from what I remember a lot of it was far too accurate.

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mirrenmanPosted on7:06 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Althetim says: ‘ too accurate ‘

– you beat me to it

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angus1983Posted on7:33 pm - Nov 15, 2012


auchinstarry says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 18:26

This cretin should never be allowed near a mainstream audience given his continuous hate filled rants on RM.

——

Now, now. We know the MSM will have nothing to do with anything remotely sectarian in nature. I mean, they cancelled the serialisation of Phil’s book on the scantest evidence. And look at Andy Goram being sacked from his regular Sun contributions … no, hang on, wait a minute …

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AuldheidPosted on7:37 pm - Nov 15, 2012


bangordub says:

Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 00:55

22

0

Rate This

Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 00:34

Auldheid, I hesitate to take you on here as you are an Auld hand but to be honest I still hold to my original thoughts re Celtic. Why open yer mouth while the other lot are making Horses Ars*s of themselves?
The Kaiser, as us Dubs call him, hasn’t made a wrong call eh, ever, as I can recall. Unlike certain other world famous businessmen.
He will be missing nothing in this pantomime and will make a move when he deems fit. Uniquely he seems to have made very few enemies.
Mind you, I’m still keeping an eye just in case
———————-
Agreed. I never mentioned timing. Celtic can say nothing until FTTT decision published.

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Lord WobblyPosted on7:43 pm - Nov 15, 2012


My ‘favourite’ from the ‘RTC blogger named’ thread on RM is this one (I have added ——- to separate a voice of reason from a complete nutjob):

TheFarmer
Today, 02:02 PM
Gregor Stevens Fan Club, on 15 November 2012 – 01:57 PM,
said:
And if it’s not ?? – how do we detract any of the forthcoming
nonsense that follows ??
We have to be careful on matters like these.
————————–
He’s a taig who spouts absolute bile about our club, whether he is a contributor to RTC or not I hope he gets the sack.

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AgrajagPosted on7:43 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Did I read over the last couple of days that Rangers were going to run at a loss of something like £3.5m this year, predicted by the company themselves. But that they would run at a profit from then onwards.

Simple question, if there was no share issue, where would the money be coming from to make up the shortfall, would it be via borrowing. If so, who would be willing to lend a club in their position that amount of money and at what terms. That would seem problematic.

They aren’t actually having a share issue to make up for trading losses which they are unable to finance through borrowing or asset sales. In the hope of then going on to make profits. People are supposed to be “investing” in that. A share issue to fund survival.

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campsiejoePosted on7:58 pm - Nov 15, 2012


If there is one result I would like to see from this whole fiasco, is that Charlie finally decides to take someone to court, but I fear it will never happen
Charlie will never ever expose himself, or anyone associated with Sevco, in an open court, which is a great pity, since he wouldn’t be able to hide behind his usual bluster and doublespeak
He knows that being questioned under oath in a court, would blow the whole Sevco myth wide open, and deliver a blow, that he and the rest of the Sevconians would never recover from
So it seems, that Charlie in court, will forever remain a dream for me

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on8:00 pm - Nov 15, 2012


wottpi says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 17:51

On a day when the BBC look like having to pay out to Lord MacAlpine or face legal action and his solicitors are talking about going after folk on twitter you would have thought the Bears on RM may have been more careful, given their track record, about what they say and do.

They also fail to act in accordance with the guidance given at the top of their message board

“Jadams posted the following a while ago, recent events mean I’m posting it again. Without going into detail, suffice to say the police (specifically FoCUS) are paying close attention to posts on RM and are likely to ask for personal details of anyone making threats in posts. We cannot monitor every post, please be aware you can be held responsible for what you post. If you see a post that could be interpreted as a threat, or are concerned about something you’ve posted, please alert the moderator/admin team.

The rules are here, please read them and protect yourselves by posting within the law

If you are in anyway unsure of what you can and cannot say, or what details RM may have to provide to police, please PM one of the moderator/admin team.”

——————————————————–

Interesting that they don’t make it clear that threatening posts are completely unacceptable. Instead it’s more a case of “be careful you don’t get caught”. Just wrong.

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gazpopsPosted on8:10 pm - Nov 15, 2012


mirrenman says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 18:59

To give the poor man the benefit of the doubt…we all know what he means – that for information that accurate it would have to have come from a genuine inside source. However the counterpoint to this would be that we shouldn’t have known anything. Again, to be sympathetic, a leak of that authenticity would be concerning if say, you were a real bastion of civil liberties and data protection or alternatively if it was corporate/governmental information that was being leaked to discredit someone or influence trading making the leak a rogue influence designed to sabotage or personally attack someone.

This is not such a case. The only reason for Sevco fans hating RTC is that he is presumed to be a Celtic fan. Not because he is spreading lies. Outing RTC would achieve what? Designed to do what?

For a bunch of fans who have crafted sycophancy into a fine art, bowing continuously to those who openly lie to them, to then seek Vengeance against those that tell them the truth isn’t just disgusting. It’s pitiful.

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jonnyodPosted on8:16 pm - Nov 15, 2012


IMO in all this ,the big question is who was behind the Ticketus agreement with CW ,I take it BDO can and will find this out .
Follow follow the money and the truth will out .
Also can anyone recall the part of the deal between (S)DM and CW regarding what happened if there was an insolvency event ,just something that is niggling away at the back of my mind

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campsiejoePosted on8:19 pm - Nov 15, 2012


gazpops @ 20:10

Outing RTC would achieve what? Designed to do what?
========================================================================
They want RTC named, for the same reasons that they wanted the members of the Triibunal named
And we all know where that lead

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gazpopsPosted on8:25 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 19:43

Sigh..it would be laughable Wobbly if it wasn’t so cretinous. I hate to indulge in the Sevco-bashing, I really do, but when RM is the premier forum of your fan-base..a place where a thread descends into bile and anger before the first page is out…is really shocking. I can only hope that the idea that Green & Sevco actually read these boards as a way of ‘getting the fans onboard’ is just propaganda.

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gazpopsPosted on8:52 pm - Nov 15, 2012


campsiejoe says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 20:19

Indeed. Threats, intimidation etc are all then to achieve what? That the FTT, The Liquidation, The End of All Things will what? Suddenly rewind and magically be undone? That potentially criminal acts, immoral acts by their Leaders will suddenly be deemed legal and moral? Leagues stopped and Sevco undone – Rangers back at the top of the SPL and Super Ally winning cup after cup after…okay now I’m getting silly but you get the point.

I have tried to understand this bunch of fans many times and even make allowances but I cannot find any potential worth they bring to the game beyond (and this isn’t even a sure thing) a few grubby quid.

It’s not worth it.

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Lord WobblyPosted on8:53 pm - Nov 15, 2012


gazpops says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 20:25
1 0 Rate This
Lord Wobbly says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 19:43
Sigh..it would be laughable Wobbly if it wasn’t so cretinous. I hate to indulge in the Sevco-bashing, I really do, but when RM is the premier forum of your fan-base..a place where a thread descends into bile and anger before the first page is out…is really shocking.
I can only hope that the idea that Green & Sevco actually read
these boards as a way of ‘getting the fans onboard’ is just
propaganda.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’ve no idea whether Chuckles reads RM, FF, VB etc regularly but I’m sure he has dipped a toe. However, it’s obvious to most that Green is playing to the gallery and using their blinkered view on the world to his own ends. And they love him for it.

While I’m sure Chuckles has (at least once) thought to himself “wtf have I got myself into here?”, I am equally sure that the voice on the other shoulder has pacified him with something like “it’s so effing easy I almost feel sorry for them! Almost.”

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AgrajagPosted on9:16 pm - Nov 15, 2012


if Charles Green was averse to using propaganda on places like RM and FF then he would not have resorted to 1, bigitry against Rangers 2, everyone hates us 3, yes we can get an orange shirt 4, visits to certain chaps oversees and playing to that crowd, wearing shirts etc.

I do not believe that he has not been briefed in relation to these matters and that he is not willing to uses them to sell season tickets and shares. That would be naive in the extreme.

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jimlarkinPosted on9:34 pm - Nov 15, 2012


i’ve seen it all now…

a man being taken to court, for feeding suasage rolls to a police horse…in a threatening manner !!

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/200797-man-stands-trial-for-trying-to-feed-sausage-rolls-to-police-horses/

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john clarkePosted on9:36 pm - Nov 15, 2012


I said I would write to RBL Scotland. I have only just done so ( I’ll post it tomorrow).

Here is my letter:
———

Mr G Ross,
General Secretary,
Royal British Legion Scotland
Logie Green Road,
Edinburgh, EH7 4HR

Dear Mr Ross,

I would never be a critic of the Royal British Legion Scotland, being the son of a Guardsman who was badly wounded during the Second World War (I so dislike the Americanism ‘World war 2’!)

In taking the liberty of sending you the enclosed copy of a letter I sent to GOC Commanding Scotland (and copied to other Service Chiefs), which, I think, is self-explanatory, I do so because I am resentful at the attempted hi-jacking of ‘remembrance’ by a particular section of society, for reasons unconnected with expressions of public thanks to, and respect for, those who suffered death and serious injury in the defence of their country, their communities, and their families.

I feel sure that RBLS had nothing to do with the presence of HM Forces at Ibrox Park, Glasgow last Saturday, and will share with me a concern, already voiced by many, that the good name and integrity of the Legion will be damaged by the equating of patriotism and support for our armed services with the ideology of one particular football club.

I do not know how you may be able to prevent that kind of thing happening, since you have no control over the behaviour of serving sailors,soldiers, and airmen: this would be the business of officers-in-charge.

But I do believe that the RBLS should be alive to the need constantly to guard its good name and image from being tarnished or diminished by cynical, publicity-seeking business-men.

Yours sincerely,
———

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broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on9:51 pm - Nov 15, 2012


If it wasn’t for TSFM and RTC I’d probably be quite impressed with Chuckler. I lived in Leeds for a couple of years in my pre-balding, mullet sporting youth and found the lads and lasses of Yorkshire to be more or less up front and honest, one lass in particular was very up fro……. By Eck!! I digress.

He certainly is able to appear believable, he’s either a natural or has been coached or perhaps a bit of both.

If it was my team who were in this position, how hard would it be for me to be sceptical of CG?

I knew nothing about Fergus McBunnet before he arrived on the scene and I the majority of Celtic fans were in the same boat and we should be eternally grateful that he wasn’t out to fleece us.

It was a different time back then, I wonder how Celtic fans would have reacted if there had been a site (fanzine?) called CTC. Is there really that much of a cultural difference between the blue and the green? If so, are there any Sociologists or Anthropologists on here who could shed any light on the reasons if it’s not too off topic?

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iceman63Posted on9:53 pm - Nov 15, 2012


A good letter John. Eloquent and direct. Well done.

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ikiPosted on9:55 pm - Nov 15, 2012


It is time for rangerstaxcase.com to make himself known ….. c’mon step forward and take the kudos and the kickings Mr Keevins.

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Billy BoycePosted on9:59 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Agrajag says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:16

john clarke says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:36
_________________________________________________

I note your concerns about Green & Co playing to the gallery. What about the latest stunt?

It was announced on this evening’s Scottish news that this weekend Ibrox will hold a minute’s silence in honour of the army captain whose body was returned to the UK earlier today. Flags will be at half-mast and the Sevco players will wear black armbands.

In the wake of last weekend’s disgusting display, I think this is another cynical attempt by Sir Charles to exploit the fans and further promote his forthcoming pension plan. I know the poor soldier was a Rangers fan but just how many such ‘Gers fans have been returned in body bags over the last ten years that have had this grand dignified tribute?

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Stifler’s MomPosted on10:03 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Having reviewed today’s offerings on RM I would like to think that Bluenose1975 @ 01.49pm qualifies for a chap at the door from the bigotry police… I mean, come on, that has to be toothbrush and jammies stuff….

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=242057&st=0

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ikiPosted on10:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Tommy says:
It was announced on this evening’s Scottish news that this weekend Ibrox will hold a minute’s silence in honour of the army captain whose body was returned to the UK earlier today. Flags will be at half-mast and the Sevco players will wear black armbands.
==========
Just when you think that they have reached a low, they sink that bit more again.

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SouthernExilePosted on10:05 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Tommy says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:59
—————
Is this true?
Things are getting very weird up there.

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AgrajagPosted on10:13 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Tommy says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:59

—————————–

Sadly I have to agree. Cynical manipulation at it’s absolute worst.

I have reached the conclusion that they really do have no shame and will stoop to any level to sell tickets, shares or anything else.

This to my mind is a new low.

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on10:13 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Equity for Clowns? Just had a flashback :-
http://www.bluenose.co.uk/

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goosyPosted on10:15 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Green must be very close to the exit when he approves the sort of nonsense thats now going on

All of it without exception is an indication of short termism

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on10:16 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Paul McConville ‏@Paulmcc12
Just reading a fun piece on the BBC website… http://bbc.in/MbInos

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:16 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Agrajag says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:16

I note your concerns about Green & Co playing to the gallery. What about the latest stunt?

It was announced on this evening’s Scottish news that this weekend Ibrox will hold a minute’s silence in honour of the army captain whose body was returned to the UK earlier today. Flags will be at half-mast and the Sevco players will wear black armbands.

In the wake of last weekend’s disgusting display, I think this is another cynical attempt by Sir Charles to exploit the fans and further promote his forthcoming pension plan. I know the poor soldier was a Rangers fan but just how many such ‘Gers fans have been returned in body bags over the last ten years that have had this grand dignified tribute?

————————————————————————————

funnily enough, this has been on my mind today.

on one hand, i think it is perfectly acceptable and even quite moving that the club should observe a minutes silence for Capt Barrie.

He was a Glaswegian, a rangers fan, and poignantly he was killed whilst playing a kick about game of football with locals.

Now, given that it was in the wake of the remembrance Sunday “celebrations” (sorry, after seeing the video, it is the only way to describe that embarrassment) you could say they have paid their respects to the good captain and others like him – surely that is the POINT of remembrance sunday?

However, what if the Capt had been a Celtic or Aberdeen fan? Would they be remembering him? And if not, why not? And does this mean they are only remembering the Rangers supporting soldiers (and civvies) killed in previous wars when they have their ibrox jamboree every year?

However, what is the point in the debate? lets face it, they are only hijacking the poppy and remembrance for their own jingoistic agenda

they have no shame. Not one word of remorse for the non payment of tax that has led directly to soldiers dying in conflict due to lack of finances to pay for kit.

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ShooperbPosted on10:22 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Can someone not start a rumour that Jabba is RTC?
Oh, I think I just have…….

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easyJamboPosted on10:24 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Hearts have made an odd (and perhaps concerning) announcement on the official site that they will not be accepting debit or credit card payments for share purchases from tomorrow. There is no explanation why. Ticket sales via card seems to be ok for the moment.

It could be that they are unhappy with the card fees being requested by the merchant. Alternatively, it could be that Hearts are having trouble obtaining insurace cover for their (higher value?) card transactions and that the merchart is withholding more funds than the standard fees. I seem to recall that was one of the reasons for Globespan going into administration.

Not good news either way, as it is likely to deter some people from making share purchases if they can’t use cards.

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:26 pm - Nov 15, 2012


i think its fair enough, they’re away this weekend and next.
if they carry this on to next ibrox game though they are definitely at it.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:27 pm - Nov 15, 2012


SouthernExile says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:05

Tommy says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:59
—————
Is this true?
Things are getting very weird up there.
====================================
Was on the radio this afternoon.

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paulsatimPosted on10:29 pm - Nov 15, 2012


More zombie paranoia,

Is it normal practice for a player to hold up a jersey with the year he has signed till?
I only ask as I saw T.Watt holding one up with 2016, coincidently the 100 year anniversary of some rebel uprising. Me cynical, na

All because of this, http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=3357

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AgrajagPosted on10:36 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:16

========================

I agree, and once again it saddens me to say that.

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john clarkePosted on10:43 pm - Nov 15, 2012


jonnyod says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 20:16
‘…lso can anyone recall the part of the deal between (S)DM and CW regarding what happened if there was an insolvency event ,just something that is niggling away at the back of my mind..
——-
If you go back to RTC blog (Blogger Scoops Mainstream Media Yet Again Shocker! -in spare time) you’ll get a link to the share purchase agreement.

On page 11, at clause 6.3 there’s a lot of legal stuff about if there is an insolvency event…. 90 days. purchaser has to do something or other. I’ve only skim-read it, but I doubt that I would understand it if I sat up all night reading it!

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