A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
Was Charlie Chuckle ever hit with an SFA charge for saying on national radio that the SFA has “stolen money” from Rangers? Or was it just another case of that outspoken little rogue Chuckles being a wee bit cheeky?
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When the brave Turnbull called it as it is (corrupt football administration) and with no response from same this surely was a watershed moment in Scottish football. For a constituent member of an organisation to call the governing body corrupt and not be called to account proves Turnbull was correct. Nothing more damaging could be levelled at a National Governing body than to be called corrupt by one of it’s members, so when this body sees no wrong with this charge it ipso facto loses all moral authority to govern any organisation, particularly a sports organisation, which depends almost entirely on trust – yet the majority of the clubs whistle past the graveyard..
A quiet night.
And reflecting on a resolution that was voted on today at CFC’s AGM ,referring to the example of Barcelona in the matter of shirt sponsorship, I see that from next season Barcelona will be sponsored by Qatar Airways.
‘A partir de la saison prochaine, le maillot blaugrana portera le nom de la compagnie aérienne Qatar Airways, a annoncé vendredi le club catalan.’
I feel kind of let down, somehow.
http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/football/foot-le-maillot-du-barca-aura-un-sponsor-commercial-16-11-2012-2326939.php
Was Charlie Chuckle ever hit with an SFA charge for saying on national radio that the SFA has “stolen money” from Rangers? Or was it just another case of that outspoken little rogue Chuckles being a wee bit cheeky?
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When the brave Turnbull called it as it is (corrupt football administration) and with no response from same this surely was a watershed moment in Scottish football. For a constituent member of an organisation to call the governing body corrupt and not be called to account proves Turnbull was correct. Nothing more damaging could be levelled at a National Governing body than to be called corrupt by one of it’s members, so when this body sees no wrong with this charge it ipso facto loses all moral authority to govern any organisation, particularly a sports organisation, which depends almost entirely on trust – yet the majority of the clubs whistle past the graveyard..
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To be fair, it’s not as if he called lying referees integrity into question or something outrageous like that.
martybhoy: The MSM are dragging extremist morons like Chris Graham from semi literate hate sites and paying them to play the victim and spread disinformation and lies with the odd dog whistle thrown in. The MSM in Scotland is scandalously poor except for maybe 5 individuals or less. Walter Myth is back in town so they will be desperate to impress the bully and get back to the pats on the head and Golf weekends caddying for Uncle Walter.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8252401/
“The SPL told us face-to-face, ‘We don’t want you, you aren’t welcome,'” said Green, referring to the club’s attempt to remain in the top flight while in administration during the summer.
“But Scottish football without Rangers and Celtic might actually become more competitive within the remaining clubs rather than having these two monsters sat above them.
“As a football club, if Rangers were in the Premier League only Manchester United would be bigger. Arsenal haven’t got more fans than Rangers… the fan base is so big.”
Despite the Premier League stating they have no plans for the Glasgow sides to move south, Green added: “I don’t believe they are hostile towards it because I think it’s a generalization.
“Speak to Manchester United. They are not hostile to Rangers joining.”
However, a spokesman for the Old Trafford club was quick to distance himself from the remarks.
“We are not in favour of it at all,” said Phil Townsend. “We are against it. Our view is it’s the English Premier League and should remain that way.”
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I like quick retort from Man Utd…………..if only the English journalists were up here………not perfect but still…………..
Given these 2 incidents of confusion between English and Scots law//////////
(1) http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-answer-to-the-mystery-of-the-missing-blog-posts/comment-page-1/#comment-27860
This emphasises to me the need for an accessible blog advising the interested people of Scotland on matters of legal interest – injunctions are English – the Scottish term is interdict. Therefore, the lack of legal awareness justifies my continued blogging!
(2) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9163441/No-ruling-on-Rangers-administators-Ticketus-deal.html
Yesterday, Lord Hodge declared that he did not have sufficient information about what is going on at the club to make such a judgment.
He did say that Ticketus should not be granted the status of preferential creditors under English law, but otherwise ruled that he could not rule – further proof that confusion has not yet finished its masterpiece at Ibrox. In keeping with the rest of this tormented saga, the contending parties all expressed satisfaction.
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Here is my question – seems whomever released the information to Chris Graham from Ibroke may have English law background – is this the same person who was helping Ticketus with securing their “investment” under English law – and then in both cases, be somewhat surprised to learn its not same north of Hadrian’s wall?
Is there a connection here? Or are we supposed to assume RFC, TRFC and Ticketus all employ English law experts who seem ignorant of the differences in Scots Law?
Just a thought…….
I was babysitting my 15 month old nephew yesterday and while watching his programmes I got this idea, so apologies in advance, but it is just a bit of fun….
.
Chico Green’s Fairytales – GRIM
What’s the Story in Balamory, what’s the story Son
Chico & Sally attending orange rallies, to convince them he is a H..
T E L L A S T O R Y, T E L L A S T O R Y
Chico, you are a noisy little “Lying”
Chico, you are a noisy little “Lying”
In the jingly jangly jungle, a noisy “Lying” Roars
He’s after lots of money, Yours and Yours and Yours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vP3QYc0AfVE
FYI – Tommy talks to Cenkos and gets confirmation was indeed real and “shpild not have been leaked to the internet”…………
Was also trying to find the link for the story about Duff & Phelps having to reapply for adminsitration back in Feb – if my memory serves me right – it too had a flaw due to them doing something that was deemed ok under English law and had to refiled due to having to make it more compliant with Scots law – can anyone confirm that my recollection is correct?
if so would make 3 times someone got confused over English/Scots law…………getting beyond careless………..and unusual…….and less coincidental!.
If CG is starting his tour of institutional investors in the European financial hub of Belfast, his strategy, in a phrase beloved of management consultants everywhere, is to “pick the low hanging fruit”.
Oranges.
exiledcelt says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 09:20
Was also trying to find the link for the story about Duff & Phelps having to reapply for adminsitration back in Feb – if my memory serves me right – it too had a flaw due to them doing something that was deemed ok under English law and had to refiled due to having to make it more compliant with Scots law – can anyone confirm that my recollection is correct?
if so would make 3 times someone got confused over English/Scots law…………getting beyond careless………..and unusual…….and less coincidental!.
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You are correct in so far as the initial appointment was invalid but I think it was due to them failing to lodge some papers or something rather than a Scots/English law mix up.
On Chris Graham – will repeat my post befor on his and Dingle – they are fighting to become the supporters rep on the Ibroke boardroom so they can wear brown brogues and a TRFC tie. Thye have no issue selling out the supporters they purport to represent as long as the owners (whomever they may be) see them right.
Issue is for Graham, he was caught with his tongue so far up CW’s rectum, I can only hope he has got his tasting senses back.
Issue for Dingbat is everyone hates him in all the supporters groups – he also was a succulent lamb diner – and so his credibility is more on a par with Leggo bricks – slightly above zero but below a whole number.
Both are trying to doff their caps and bow before CG in the hope he picks them over the other to be the supporters rep on the board that he claims is waiting for someone.
Both will make risible claims of representing the True Blues – both have issues with opposite camps and within their own – no one with any decent respect is coming forward to unite the camps.
Even RM and FF hate each other.
How can anyone unite that crowd? Ask Charlie………..
Ok Scottc – thanks – so crappy lawyers then 🙂
The Celtic AGM proposal..
Aside from a gripe about parking and a request for salads to be sold alongside the matchday pies and Bovrils, the overriding view was that all is rosy in the Celtic garden.
Salads fu=£
in Salads ..who are these people we should be told .
D&P failed to notify the FSA of their appointment
campsiejoe says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 22:00
26 0 Rate This
readcelt @ 21:50
Why question the conributions
We are all bampots after all
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Apologies. Cocktails and drinking games last night. Could hardly read let alone been allowed to post.
Alcohol and mobile devices are dangerous things.
exiledcelt says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 07:16
However, a spokesman for the Old Trafford club was quick to distance himself from the remarks.
“We are not in favour of it at all,” said Phil Townsend. “We are against it. Our view is it’s the English Premier League and should remain that way.”
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The Man U spokeman’s argument is flawed as Swansea are currently gorging on the EPL money feast, and they are no more English than Rangers. That said, the chances of English clubs voting to admit Rangers at the expense, presumably, of one of the clubs doing the voting, are negligible at best
So ,let me get this right
Chuckles says go and ask Man Utd if they are against Sevco getting a place in the EPL and a sports journalist goes and asks Man Utd if they are against it and Man Utd tell them too right we are ,my oh my surely this kind of sports journalism will never catch on .
Sounds to me as if Chuckles has been based North of the border too long ,he seems to have fallen into the pro Sevco comfort zone up here .
Message to Chuckles keep your best material for up here and say as little as possible anywhere else (except maybe West Belfast )
‘Alcohol and mobile devices are dangerous things’.
If you obey the rules of the road ‘readcelt’ these mobile thing-a-ma-jigs are safe enough!
Praise where praise is due: last night’s BBC Sportsound presented by Richard Gordon was upbeat, well-presented and talked up Scottish football (and no, I didn’t have a drop of alcohol yesterday evening). Sounded like a great match, and Gordon pointed out that the crowd was up on both previous fixtures.
Missing from the presenter line-up was JT and CY. Their opinionated obsessiveness and negativity was not missed.
Is there any word that Lord Hodge has received the transcript of the full (alledged) conversation between Mr Whyte’s with Mr Grier that was aired on the BBC?
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 10:48
11 0 Rate This
Praise where praise is due: last night’s BBC Sportsound presented by Richard Gordon …….
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I can think of very few isolated instances of Richard Gordon not living up to his own very high standards.
I have always considered him to be a rare star in Scottish broadcasting.
Having said that, I hope his professionalism is put to the test today !
martybhoy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 11:24
TD brigade up early this morning then?
Whassup McMurdo?
We know you lurk…….Chin up kid…..both of them.
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Can’t see that many TDs this morning. Really, though we should not make a big deal about them. Without the TD there would be little point in the TU.
Original draft of THAT powerpoint presentation
http://i.imgur.com/9sznR.gif courtesy of manilacelt on KDS
I wonder who the Record canvassed in their fan poll in today’s edition – 43% in favour of OF reserve teams in the league set up??? I suggest they canvass folk attending today’s Fife derby at Stark’s Park and I predict they would find between 90-95% against any such nonsense.
Folks. It’s been a slow week, and the temptation to veer wildly off topic is great. I notice that the use of derogatory terms is increasing. I don’t know how that makes the point better than if we stick to the facts.
I know there is still anger and frustration, but we are in danger of descending into a name calling spiral in the absence of real news. We are better than that.
Perhaps focussing on the positive aspects of the situation might help. Stuart and Tam certainly are at this moment 🙂
and the new week will probably provide us with some bones to chew on 🙂
SSB phrase of the day from dalziel …… ‘for the sake of Scottish football!!! I really hope aberdeen win’ 🙂 🙂 🙂
I see TRFC are broadcasting their match live today over the tinternet to UK viewers.
Are they allowed to do this?
OOOOps does not seem to be working, will they get their £5.99 back?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 12:47(Edit)
I see TRFC are broadcasting their match live today over the tinternet to UK viewers.
Are they allowed to do this?
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They must have the OK from the SFL. There are no live TV conflicts to worry about. The biggest problem as far as I can see is that it will impact on people attending either the match itself, or another match in the SFL or SPL.
However since all TRFC matches are a sell-out, the first is not a problem 🙂
The SFL would have reservations if other matches were impacted, and the SFA might be interested if the SPL complained.
I don’t think there is any real objection that would stand scrutiny though. Perfectly reasonable PR exercise for The Rangers and no harm done to anyone else.
Mr Green will say Anything and promise Anything in order to sell his raffle tickets. This is ALL about cash. When the raffle is finally drawn there can only be One winner.
He has gone through Hoops (pardon the pun) in order to get the “Peepil” onside. Now having achieved that he is moving in on real investors. The Presentation Portfolio is a desperate attempt at informing the world how wonderful a business proposition their investment will be.
Watching the big “Hoose of cards” collapse is yet another episode of the Blockbuster to look forward to. Nobody should be fooled by this car salesman’s patter.
The REALLY interesting bits have yet to unfold.
Eres the Spearmint gum and the Macaroon bars…………….
As far as I can tell, the first full review of Phil Mac’s Downfall in a Scottish publication. Some will take umbrage at some of what he says but McKenna writes with some authority and honesty here
http://www.scottishreviewofbooks.org/index.php/back-issues/volume-8-2012/volume-eight-issue-four/522-what-s-the-score-kevin-mckenna
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 12:47
0 0 Rate This
I see TRFC are broadcasting their match live today over the tinternet to UK viewers.
Are they allowed to do this?
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Might be better to ask “are football clubs allowed to do this?”, Tribute Act can do what they want, it doesn’t mean it is legal or in the rules if Tribute Act can do something.
TSFM says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 12:57
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 12:47(Edit)
I see TRFC are broadcasting their match live today over the tinternet to UK viewers.
Are they allowed to do this?
_______________________________________________________________
They must have the OK from the SFL. There are no live TV conflicts to worry about. The biggest problem as far as I can see is that it will impact on people attending either the match itself, or another match in the SFL or SPL.
However since all TRFC matches are a sell-out, the first is not a problem
The SFL would have reservations if other matches were impacted, and the SFA might be interested if the SPL complained.
I don’t think there is any real objection that would stand scrutiny though. Perfectly reasonable PR exercise for The Rangers and no harm done to anyone else.
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Who cares, anyway? Cbeebies will have higher ratings – Nina and the Neurons are more entertaining than Sally and the Morons!
To clarify…there is absolutly no possibility what so ever of Celtic or Rangers leaving Scottish football for any other league under any other national association…unless there is a change to the UK and the 4 home associations become 1 UK association.
Charlie either hasn’t checked the facts or…has resigned himself to the certainty he will never be exposed or challenged by the Scottish MSM..
TSFM…I understand the thrust of your point in terms of insults…but in all honesty Charlies public comments are becoming bolder and more and more rediculous…and Celtic are appearing more often as a complicit partner in his comments…do we think he is trying to provoke a response…to bolster his certificate floatation?
TSFM says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 12:57
1 1 Rate This
What about ESPN, they have paid to show live games, would they not have a concern that it could reduce subscriptions to them and would TRFC be allowed to broadcast when ESPN are showing a TRFC match.
I was unaware that clubs could stream live matches in the UK.
midcalderan says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 22:44
I agree, in fact let me put it out as a plea to the fans.
Buy shares in Rangers, please. Invest in the new club in the hope you can raise enough money to keep it alive until you can buy a season ticket, 20% more expensive than you paid this year.
Keep putting as much money in as you can afford, and then a bit more. Ignore these timmy conspiracies about non-billionaires, administration, liquidation, not getting into the SPL. All this talk of a share issue con is just another in a long line of stories attacking the club you love.
Please, buy shares in Rangers.
I’m guessing the reason for the live internet availablity is to somehow claim a greater audience when played in competition with Celtic…just watch the PR that is pumped out after today..
I think TSFM is not referring to jibes at Mr Charles. Such talk has always been present here, and is reasonable because he really does talk nonsense – my granny used to call it “opening your mouth and letting your belly rumble.”
(Bugger. Celtic just scored. 🙁 )
18,000 + at Pittodrie. Biggest crowd in almost 3 years apparently.
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#Hearts fans have raised over 500k since plea for help, according to the club. #bbcsportsound #BBCSport
TRFC playing against 1o men again today. How games is that now?
Oh dear I wonder how many £5.99’s chuckles got from the sevconians for viewing today’s game at ochil view on rtv!!! No show 🙂 will they never learn 😉
Looks like English is on to him
@TomEnglishSport: My Scotland on Sunday column: “From the Dallas Cowboys to Real Madrid, how Charles Green is taking over the sporting world
Brenda says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 13:57
Oh dear I wonder how many £5.99′s chuckles got from the sevconians for viewing today’s game at ochil view on rtv!!!
——
One guy on RM says he was “user 59622” when he coughed up last night …
nowoldandgrumpy
– – – – no doubt it was an honest mistake !
the emperors new clothes fc also got a penalty, surprise surprise !
the “experts” on bbc sportsound all talking about reconstruction and how much it is needed for the future of “our” game !
chico says that the english game is flourishing, our game is not!
maybe he’s forgot about the amount of debt in the english game and the amount of teams that have 1 very wealthy owner, who sees the purchase of a team as a plaything.
Chic going absolutly nuts on sportsound – league reconstruction, lets have one governing body…
He also mentioned that every game should have meaning – on that basis Chic do you agree that all forms of cheating should be routed out of Scottish football?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-20371625
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… the parent group has been in dispute with its office leasing subsidiary over loans between different parts of the business. There has been boardroom upheaval in recent months, and trading in shares was suspended at the end of October
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the pitfalls of having the parent company dealing in loans to the subsidiaries.
how many subsidiaries have sevco/the rangers football club ltd got or have planned?
sevco5088
sevco scotland
the rangers football club ltd
the rangers football club plc
?
?
?
?
?
Where is everyone? 🙁
It seems Dave King was acquitted about a month ago. Why was I not informed.
http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2012/09/18/was-king-case-a-waste-of-money
This is the criminal case it seems, I don’t know the situation with regard any civil action SARS were / are taking.
I am willing to consider any theory in relation to Rangers which involves Mr King.
Apologies if posted before, but well done Annan.
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news/article/annan-hold-hands-up-in-sfa-youth-cup/
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 11:12
Is there any word that Lord Hodge has received the transcript of the full (alledged) conversation between Mr Whyte’s with Mr Grier that was aired on the BBC?
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In the BBC programme featuring the Craig Whyte recording I am sure Mark Daly commented that the conversation had been brought to the attention of Lord Hodge (and the Insolvency Service?).
If that is the case then I would have expected the BBC to supply a copy of the tape together with its analysed transcript to the Clerk of the Court of Session. Lord Hodge would no doubt have been aware of the development by the time he sat down to breakfast next morning with his copy of the Daily Record.
Dave King has revealed plans to plough fresh cash into Rangers — just months after seeing a previous investment of £20million go down the drain.
The former Ibrox director won a six-year court battle with the South African Revenue Service to have a freeze on his British assets revoked last week, leaving the Johannesburg-based businessman free to invest in the UK.
And, despite the continuing fight to clear his name on 322 charges of tax evasion in South Africa, Glasgow-born King has set his sights on a return to the Ibrox boardroom, insisting there are now no issues over his ‘fit and proper’ person status.
His lingering concerns over chief executive Charles Green’s profit-based business plan mean the 57-year-old will sit out the current £20m share issue. Impressed by Walter Smith’s recruitment to the Ibrox board, however, King says he is almost ready to talk,
telling Sportsmail: ‘I am certainly inclined to invest in Rangers again. I lost £20m through Rangers but I can absolutely see a scenario where I would like to return to the Rangers boardroom one day soon.
‘Any substantial investment I made in the club would incorporate that caveat. If I was going to come in with substantial sums of money then I would expect to be on the board as well.
‘I still have some concerns about the business model adopted by Charles Green. But investing in Rangers is a situation I would like to look at again towards the end of this season.
‘Clearly Charles Green might have something to say about that. And the time is not now for me to come back because Charles has a business plan which I don’t quite agree with.
‘But I would regard myself as a potential investor going forward.
‘As Rangers progress through the leagues they will need another type of investor.
‘The reality is that once Rangers are back in the Premier League, fans will expect them to automatically start challenging for the title and start competing in Europe again — which is what we all want.
‘But that will require extra capital in a couple of years’ time. And it will be then that people like myself will come into the equation. Because I would be willing to put money into the club on a non-profit basis.’
King put £20m into Rangers during David Murray’s tenure and lost every penny when the oldco club was plunged towards financial oblivion by former owner Craig Whyte.
Concerns over Green’s profit motive prompted his brief dalliance with the Blue Knights takeover group in the summer, as former manager Smith was fronting another splinter group funded by businessman Jim McColl.
Impressed by Green’s ability to bring Smith on side, however, King’s stance towards the current regime has softened.
‘All credit to Charles for being able to do that,’ he said. ‘It’s a great thing because it says that Charles must be getting the club going in the right direction.’
King was also deterred from investing in Green’s Sevco consortium by a restraining order imposed by the Crown Office on behalf of SARS.
Before having the order lifted, however, King also had 37 counts of fraud and racketeering dropped in his adopted land and insists there are now no impediments to an Ibrox return.
‘I wrote to the SFA at the end of last year when I was looking to be involved in one of the consortiums, telling them of the allegations against me and asking if this might cloud their judgment in terms of my ability to be a fit and proper person at Rangers?
‘Their response was that because it was only allegations they would take representations from my legal team and if they could convince them I had a strong case then there would be no issue.
‘Now that has gone away. My assets have been freed and it’s just not an issue any more.’
liveinhop says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 16:45
1 0 Rate This
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So someone who has just under 300 charges of tax evasion, is given a clean bill of health by the SFA.
sad but true sickening
liveinhop says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 17:12
0 0 Rate This
sad but true sickening
==========
CW only had one and he failed it.
Guidi??? Charles green is allowed to tell blatant lies in order to promote his share issue WTF 🙂 ? Any more on the no show of the ‘big game’ in the 4th tier today I ‘ve heard that they were banned from showing it ? But it may be taxi driver talk? Wonder if they’ll all get refunds 🙂
Football Notices @FootballNotices
Meeting of Creditors: RFC 2012 P.L.C. (formerly The Rangers Football Club P.L.C.) 4/12/12 #rangersfc http://ow.ly/fn2pb
Retweeted by Rangers Tax-Case
Nae Traynor on Your Call. Stuart C and David Currie … early taste of re-construction 🙂
some phus on your call – says he’s a celtic fan, claims he wants rangers to get BACK and wealthy AGAIN and wants to see OLD FIRM games AGAIN.
does this phud not get it either.
rangers are deid – so how can they get get BACK ?
there is only ONE old firm team left !!
Liveinhop – I thought Dave King was “locked out” earlier this year. I wouldn’t pay much attention to what he says, after al, he’s not about to say he’s not fit and proper, and I’d not rely on anything he said, given his history !
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/sfa-lock-king-and-whyte-out-of-boardroom.16985683
5starsorbehindbars says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:09
If indeed Dave Kings ’embargo’ has been lifted and he is free to invest, do you really think the powers at Hampden will deem him to be not ‘Fit and Proper’? They will be falling over themselves to allow him to get involved.
Could be a game changer imho, Someone who has the cash and the love of the (Old) Club.
Last piece of the jigsaw him coming in now, Share issue fails, he steps in and Underwrites it?
TSFM re your point about tribute act’s pay per view screening today. I was under impression that a collective agreement was needed by all other teams in league to show games.
Also surely East Stirling would be entitled to a share of tv monies?
timalloy67 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:29
Was there any truth about faults with the transmission of the game? I’ve heard a few comments but nothing concrete.
Tommy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 16:44
Lord Hodge noted that he would require sight of the full transcript when hearing the petition to end the administration of RFC(IA)
He indicated that he may issue the BBC with a Court order to secure sight of the material.
If Lord Hodge has the transcript – then we may hear soon if he has found Duff and Duffer (copyright acknowledged) in conflict. I don’t know if such a ruling would then would threaten the IPO offering for Sevco.
Long Time Lurker says: 11:12
Is there any word that Lord Hodge has received the transcript of the full (alleged) conversation between Mr Whyte’s with Mr Grier that was aired on the BBC?
_________________
LTL – Posted a heads up a few days back – bit more meat to the bone
RFC 2012 P.L.C. (Formerly The Rangers Football Club plc) – Notice of Court Order Ending Administration. Please click here to read the RFC 2012 P.L.C. (Formerly The Rangers Football Club plc) – Notice of Court Order Ending Administration.
The `Note` copy dated 4/11 is worth a wee muse. – Economical but carefully written. `The Lord Ordinary`:
`The` – is that singular? – Or all 5 of them? -`dispenses with` [can be interpreted in unflattering ways]. `Orders` the `appointment` to come to an end. Reserves consideration of admins discharge. `dispenses with` [again] requirement of further reports [from the admins]. Paraphrased admittedly but those are the terms.
Could be wrong but was LH unsatisfied by what heard `from Counsel thereon`? e.g. LH did note if TU advised of the hearing. Was TU `unenforceable` – what does that mean? What’s a `minor objective`? – And, if the DG CW tapes weren’t bad enough, what lay behind the release of same? – Was someone expecting something out of the confidential aspects of the SPA from the administration?
For this non-legal commoner `Note` could be read, – sic. – Stopping this till we find out what’s been going on and in the meantime others will take care of the reporting
twopanda says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:59
Cheers.
I think it’s worth remembering that Sir David Murray didn’t seem to need to stay on the board at Rangers to still have control, with the right people in place.
No reason to think that Mr king would be any different if he were to get a major shareholding, but be precluded from taking a seat there.
I’m sure the SFA would be looking out for those sorts of shenanigans though.
Dave King for it is he. Is not noted for using his own money. Difficulty is his vehicle still tied up by the SA tax edicts
However he none the less seems to end up “owning things” see my posts re .Parklands passim.
Lies, damn lies and statistics
If today’s ‘exclusive’ poll in the Daily Ratbag indicates one thing it’s the current Scottish hack pack’s desperation to try and preserve what little is left of their presumed authority before the citizen journalists of the alternative media usurp their positions of influence.
I have no idea who they asked, what they asked or how many they asked in this survey and indeed the reporter makes no attempt to inform the reader of this. However, their sudden emphasis on the need for ‘change’ for ‘the good of the game’ in Scotland flies in the face of their previous acquiescence to those ‘visionaries’ that have almost brought the game to its knees.
Having prepared and undertaken a good many customer surveys and market research questionnaires over many years, I am well aware of how easy it is to get whatever result you want by simply framing the questions in a particular way or by asking a specific demographic. They certainly didn’t ask me or anyone I know.
This unsophisticated attempt at feigning democratic consent is presented as ‘listening to the fans’ when in fact its only function is to help them cling on to the last vestiges of authority and preserve the status quo. By pretending to represent the voice of the people they seek to dictate the terms of any proposed new structure in Scottish Football. I have no doubt that almost all fans would like to see change in the game, however this change would be likely to include removing their toxic influence on the minds of the true supporters.
Consistently and without compunction these immoral flatterers of ego and deriders of integrity have:
Enthusiastically promoted the Armageddon scenario and financial ruin for the Scottish game;
Actively encouraged the ignoring of ‘rules’ in support of their favoured club;
Refused to discuss ‘hypotheticals’ with regard to Rangers downfall while now happy to just ‘make stuff up’ regarding Hearts potential demise;
Promoted the view that Rangers are being singled out and encourage a victim mentality among their supporters;
Continue to promote the false notion that Rangers 1872 still exist despite their liquidation;
…….and now they want change. Wouldn’t be anything to do with the fact that their beloved Rangers cash cow is now languishing in the bottom tier now would it ?
Or am I just being paranoid ?
nowoldandgrumpy
– – – – no doubt it was an honest mistake !
the emperors new clothes fc also got a penalty, surprise surprise !
—————————————————————————————————–
Now, now. Comments like these aren’t really befitting of this site. T’Rangers hadn’t been awarded a penalty before today and anyone watching some of the highlights of previous games would have seen some meaty challenges go unpunished, Thom of Stirling on Black in particular. I caught the goals on SSN and the red card looked justified.
.
I’m still not convinced there was ever meant to be an IPO. Remember what he told his Irish disciples first time round….”shares will only be sold to those in the Rangers family”. Remember that the minutes to that meeting were never meant to leave the room. It’s only the over-enthusiasm of the Irish fans that spilled these particular beans.
Green is a very specific kind of idiot, a fool. He is astute enough to have realised early on that city investors would have no interest, but that the ill-informed masses would be swayed by all his alleged activity. All this “I’ve got meetings in the the city” play perfectly to the gullible. If he can persuade say 20,000 of the global fan base to part with £500 each, which to me seems perfectly possible, there’s £10million, one million of which is his.
What his foolishness will cost him is any sort of peace of mind for the rest of his life as, as we have seen, he will be threatened every day of his life if he leaves the club (or company; I’m ot sure which it is today) in the lurch once more. There would be less chance of the fans bouncing back with the “cause” we haqve all heard about this year because as the old saying goes, once bitten, twice shy. Or that should be updated to three times bitten, fourth time shy, unless Walter says it’s ok, if it isn’t.
martybhoy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:06
He can invest without being any sort of director at all.
If he has a big enough shareholding then he gets to pick who the directors are, by voting them on. They then employ the non-execs.
Basically as a major shareholder you may not sit on the board itself, but you effectively employ the people who do.
Palacio67 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:53
Was there any truth about faults with the transmission of the game? I’ve heard a few comments but nothing concrete.
————————————————-
Apparently the publican who runs the Louden bar in Glasgow had arranged to show the Sevco game live today for bears not going to Stirling. He posted on Follow Follow yesterday that TRFC had been in touch with him telling him he could not show the match after all. Here is what he said:
“We were contacted today by someone from Rangers – They have asked us not to show the game. We were led to believe that we could show this game live but after discussions with the club we have agreed not to. It is not our intention (and never will be) to have a negative effect on Rangers commercial ventures. We offered to pay a commercial rate for this game but it is not in the club’s authority to distribute the game commercially (without going into specifics – it could jeopardise future negotiations for TV rights). So with the best interest of our club in mind we will not show it.”
Could there have been a sudden “technical fault” because Sir Charles discovered that he was flouting SFL regulations by broadcasting the game?
killiemad says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:08
==============================
I think all this watching your back stuff is overplayed. What has happened to Craig Whyte. Have there been bullets sent, bombs in the post, physical assaults.
It’s not like blokes like these tend to walk about Sauchiehall Street on their own to get approached and threatened by mentalists.