A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:14
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It’s difficult to argue that threats haven’t taken place. There may have been no action so far (thankfully) but there has undeniably be intimidation. How many times did Charlie have to move bases on police advice just for buying the ckub, never mind leaving it in an even-worse position?
Tommy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:11
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I think that was probably just to maximise the take. If they all gather in the one hole to watch it then there’s only the one fee. Presumably The Louden, or it’s owner has a Rangers TV subscription and could use that, then just link it to a big screen. That would be much less than them all sitting at home and paying.
I not that they “asked” him not to show it and he “agreed”
twopanda says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:59
”..For this non-legal commoner `Note` could be read, – sic. – Stopping this till we find out what’s been going on and in the meantime others will take care of the reporting.”
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I agree.
There was a tentative suggestion made during the hearing that the Court could not end administration without thereby also necessarily discharging the Administrators.
Lord Hodge’s response to that was ,in effect, to tell Counsel plainly that of course it could.
‘ I HAVE the power’ were his actual words, said with a mirthless grin.
I
Basically as a major shareholder you may not sit on the board itself, but you effectively employ the people who do.
Tommy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:11
1 0 Rate This
Palacio67 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:53
Was there any truth about faults with the transmission of the game? I’ve heard a few comments but nothing concrete.
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… Could there have been a sudden “technical fault” because Sir Charles discovered that he was flouting SFL regulations by broadcasting the game?
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There was a news item/advert for the broadcast on the SFL home page today, so it must have been kosher enough. Although the SFL may have found out that they’d given a green light when they shouldn’t have?
Well, just got back from Carrow Road where Steven Whittaker put in another sterling performance after his return from injury. Not a bad for a player who cost us not a single penny. But I’m sure Charlie will take us to court soon, as he promised.
And, yes, this is a pretty tenuous post with little relevance to the future of Scottish football.
Did I mention we just beat Man Utd? 🙂
killiemad says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:08
“What his foolishness will cost him is any sort of peace of mind for the rest of his life as, as we have seen, he will be threatened every day of his life if he leaves the club (or company”
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That’s not the way a chancer works. A chancer first hands the club over to a patsy (who may also be a shyster) and claims he has to move on to concentrate on other business interests, or to spend more time with his family, or due to undisclosed illness. Patsy takes over and takes the heat, and some months down the line blames the chancer, who is by this time well out of sight and only remembered for his great vision (hallucination to you and me) for the “club”.
y4rmy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:47
1 0 Rate This
Well, just got back from Carrow Road where Steven Whittaker put in another sterling performance after his return from injury. Not a bad for a player who cost us not a single penny. But I’m sure Charlie will take us to court soon, as he promised.
And, yes, this is a pretty tenuous post with little relevance to the future of Scottish football.
Did I mention we just beat Man Utd?
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Bravo y4rmy. You’d think that the liquidators will be asking why Whittaker and others were not sold by D&P to bring some much-needed cash into the pot. If I was one of those who was owed money by the old club I’d be pretty miffed that valuble assets were just given away. Perhaps they will be complaining at the Hilton on 4 December?
Humble Pie..
In relation to your comments re. polls and the constituency/demographics involved. I think we should carry out a poll of this particular constituency (TSFM members) This, without anticipating the results, would prove conclusively that these polls only serve the pollsters agenda.
Thumbs up or thumbs down if you agree/disagree with the following.
1. That the Old Firm games as we knew them should never darken Scottish Football ever again.
2 That Servco should never have been allowed to compete in any division without fulfilling the prescribed conditions.
3. That those charged with the administration of our beloved game should be removed forthwith and replaced with people of the calibre of Turnbull, Men/Women of courage integrity, honesty and a real love of our game, qualities which the present incumbents do not even understand never mind possess.
This scam is far too big and intricate to succeed, I doubt they would have started if it wasn’t for decades of free reign in Scotland giving them a sense of invincibility.
ordinaryfan says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:10
Remember the scam began before the rise of the bampots. Particularly RTC
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 17:44
28 3 Rate This
some phus on your call – says he’s a celtic fan, claims he wants rangers to get BACK and wealthy AGAIN and wants to see OLD FIRM games AGAIN.
does this phud not get it either.
rangers are deid – so how can they get get BACK ?
there is only ONE old firm team left !!
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It was Jabbas wife pretending to be a Tim.
Senior says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:03
They should have been expelled sine die and records expunged – as I’ve previously said on RTC and here. What they have done is not a community service order or an ASBO. It was a full blown public purse robbery IMO.
bangordub says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:12
Remember the scam began before the rise of the bampots. Particularly RTC
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Absolutely. This would have all been over and done with months ago, Tribute Act would have swaggered into the SPL and been lauded as hero’s and worshipped for gracing us with their presence.
Without the Bampots it would have passed completely unchallenged and unscrutinised. The Bampots like Sir RTC have also killed Succulent Lamb Journalism forever, an extraordinary feat considering how institutionalised and natural it was only 16 months ago or so in Scotland. Changing decades of media corruption and collusion is a huge victory which people like those who blog for RTC should be very proud of. That alone was a fantastic victory for everyone in Scotland,
iamacant @ 21:21
The SFA/SPL/SFL by behaving as they have, have effectively endorsed, supported and given their approval to the behaviour of RFC(IL) and its successor Sevco
Make no mistake, they have said it’s alright to fail to pay your dues, and in fact we will support you by treating you as if none of it has happened
Yet from the MSM, not one single word of crticism for this diseased club or the authorities who administer the game in this country
killiemad says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:22
I have no idea, he lies about everything else so I am disinclined to believe any of those stories.
Reports om RM that Sandy Jardine currently being treated for cancer. Absolutely horrible disease which I wouldnt wish on anyone. I’ve seen it first hand with my father. I’m sure folks on here would like to see Sandy make a full recovery.
Too many people getting too frenetic on here. Remember Dave King is not a fit and proper person in SFA terms and never will be.
Secondly, anyone who has been a director of RFC in the past 10 years and who doesn’t reside in the UK would be well advised to stay out of the country. See this from the MLM Blog yesterday – http://www.mlmsolutions.co.uk/Blog/insolvency/rangers-big-tax-case-hmrc-procedures-by-guest-blogger-aidan-mclaughlin.html – my guess is that HMRC will start to deploy their big guns sooner rather than later.
Ex directors and former players, particularly those resident in the UK and considered to have money will be targeted assuming the Big Tax Case goes the way most people imagine. So whilst the De Boers will be fine, the Doddsys and McCanns of this world won’t be – and saying your agent/lawyer/financial adviser said it was ok is not a defence anyone is likely to listen to.
Likewise anyone advising King will be telling him not to set foot in this country in the foreseeable future whilst others I understand have been considering leaving.
All of the noise and fanfare around Sevco is an attempt to drown out the noise that will inveitable accompany the FTT decision.
The return of Dave King, eh? Who would have thought it?
Funny that he says he “may” get involved at the end of the season. Now why would he do that when according to the business plan, sevco will be worth a lot more and he will have to shell out a lot more? Plus, if IPO is successful (no laughing), he will have to buy out a lot more people at a higher price. Surely, it would be far easier and cheaper to simply buy now?
As predicted the other day, cue a delayed IPO for technical reasons (possibly also legal reasons – see Paul McConville) and a deal done with Dave King in private in the new year. Chuckles will be given a vice presidency for life along with one or two others (Sandy Jardine) and the MSM will fall over themselves to fawn over a true prodigal son.
Oh, and at the first sevco-celtic game when someone is killed or seriously injured, the MSM will point the figure anywhere but at itself.
Plus ça change…as my dear, old mentor would say.
We obviously don’t need sky, espn or any other broadcaster as we can just do our own thing. That’s one problem out of the way. Next !
Senior says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:03
I think you have your answer right there with your quick poll. Surely a proper inclusive survey of all fans of Scottish football has been carried out by that great football supporters union…what are they called again….oh yeah Supporters Direct. No ?
campsiejoe says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:46
Did any of the MSM follow up on Turnbull Hutton when he called the custodians of our game “corrupt?” I did send him an email about it and he replied that he did expect a “summons” to Hampden and unless I’ve missed it, nothing has happened since,
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 17:44
28 3 Rate This
some phus on your call – says he’s a celtic fan, claims he wants rangers to get BACK and wealthy AGAIN and wants to see OLD FIRM games AGAIN …
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He’s been on before, or perhaps it was on SSB. Exact same mantra each time: Watches old OF games on DVD, football almost meaningless without Rangers and the OF, woe is me. Instead of agreeing with him, as others would have been quick to do, SC was nice enough to ask if the great European nights didn’t make up for no OFs.
Could be good with a scientific poll on match day among Celtic fans at the ground just to get a real insight. On a forum like this I reckon you’re always going to get 90% + who’ll be overjoyed if they never hear the words Old Firm again.
slimshady61 @ 21:46
Good to have you back, and I hope more of the “old guard” will join us on here
As you point out, there are people involved in this fiasco, who would be well advised to lie low, or get out of the country all together
I suspect that they all think, MSM included, that as nothing has happened as yet, things have settled down, and it is all just going to disappear under an ever bulging carpet, as was the norm in previous times
I really do hope that they will be in for a surprise
slimshady61 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:46
I don’t know who you think is getting frenetic, but I certainly amn’t.
With regard Dave King. He isn’t currently a UK resident, and as I stated earlier he wouldn’t actually have to sit on the board to control the club. Sir David didn’t.
However, and I will point this out again, Malcolm Cohen was picked for a specific reason and that is because he specialises in contentious insolvencies, cross border investigations, asset recovery and uncovering fraud.
The real investigation with regard old Rangers is really only just starting. HMRC can afford to play the long game and are doing just that.
Did anyone view the pre match piffle beforethe ESPN showed the Aberdeen v Celtic match
I f picked it up correctly ,Stephen Craigen said from the ground that Scottish football cannot go through the period of indecision it went throught in the Summer because it went on so long
“THE FANS GOT INVOLVED AND LOOK WHAT THAT LEAD TO”
This was followed by the Killie Mgr in the Studio saying something like
” Clubs must make decisions not fans”
broadswordcallingdannybhoy says: Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 16:41
Apologies if posted before, but well done Annan.
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news/article/annan-hold-hands-up-in-sfa-youth-cup/
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All this sporting integrity is becoming too expensive!
Now have to purchase an Annan top to add to my Raith Rovers top. 😉
But seriously, sounds like it’s kudos to a club which upholds the true values of sporting competition – and fair play.
A club which takes it on the chin that it had improperly registered players – and accepts the consequences without complaint?
What a great example to set to other clubs.
I see Mr TD is back. Where were you? Out for succulent lamb dinner?
Won’t be long now 😉
iamacant @ 21:58
As you point out, nothing happened to him
Having said that, how can you censure someone for telling the truth ?
They knew if they did take him to task, they would be exposed, and they couldn’t risk that
iamacant says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 22:31
I see Mr TD is back. Where were you? Out for succulent lamb dinner?
Won’t be long now
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iamacant…I don’t think he ever really went away…just lurked around…waiting for my innocous, uncontentious, meagre, miserable mendacious post…(in the singular that is…)
…jammies on…night night…!
Has anyone in the MSM even a tiny bit of curiosity left? When Mark Daly revealed that G. Souness was a beneficiary of an EBT payment sometime after leaving Ibrox there was brief time when everyone wondered why that should be. The obvious course of action would have been to contact him and ask him, CY seems to have him on quick dial. He is of course under no obligation to answer any questions if indeed they were asked but I do not even recall hearing that he had “no comment”
In the past week or so he has made himself available for interview and has made his feelings known on who should be the next Scotland manager. GS, not the worst MSM journalist by far, is always very quick to jump down on anyone who thinks they understand how journalism works and that there is much going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of…indeed there used to be. Surely if Souness latest interviews were conditional on not being asked about EBT payments it is worthy of note or did they all just forget to ask him?
essexbeancounter says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 22:49
By the way, natives were extremely friendly but ignorant of the stushie down Govan way. Bit like the Englandshire MSM as you already alluded to. Now back in the granite city. Found a cracking little restaurant bar on the Clerkenwell Road yesterday where I was politely interrupted by the remark “Whats a sheep shagger doing down this neck of the woods?” Guy was an Aberdonian (by birth) who recognised the accent and we had a right good blether about putting the world to rights. The ladies talked about shopping of course 🙂
campsiejoe says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 22:43
Campsiejoe, the email reply I received was an eye opener in his remarks about the people who run our game and also of other managers who operate in the SPL/SFL leagues. No punches were pulled. He doesn’t take fools gladly and if he were to be in a position of power at Hampden, he would’t take any prisoners either. Mr Hutton knows his onions shall we say. 😉
If Tommy`s interview with Cenkos is correct the Sevco IPO is being launched two weeks before Xmas
From a City standpoint this is possibly the worst period of the year for an IPO to be launched even if we ignore all the other obvious factors
It can only have been chosen for two reasons
Either
Sevco are desperate for any cash they can get to simply run the business in the New Year
Or
The goal is an IPO failure which can be blamed on the fans thus providing cover for Green to exit with “Dignity”
iamacant @ 23:10
Mr Hutton is more than a match for any of the Stooges currently running our game
You do not become a senior executive in Diageo by being a clueless incompetent, unlike those running the SFA/SPL/SFL
I hope one day, he and those like him will take charge
My only reservation, is why haven’t they already gone on the offensive, as the Stooges right now are there for the taking
Campsiejoe,
I share your views on the ability of the formidable Mr Hutton and his potential to clean up and improve the SFA.
I would surmise that, as an already busy guy, and having considered it likely that the sevconians will see to their own demise, he’d rather wait to see SFA stooges leave soon thereafter, – as they likely would when their favourite club / companies are no more, – rather than have to spend time, energy (and additional ground insurance premiums) trying to remove them before the inevitable happens.
It is to be hoped that he would make himself available for election in those circumstances, especially if the alternative is more of the same corrupt lackeys.
If he is biding his time, I would also hope that he and others will become more active if faced with more instances of the corrupt actions he previously encountered.
Humble Pie says:Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:00
Or am I just being paranoid ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To be honest not paranoid enough !
iamacant says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 21:46
49 4
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Reports on RM that Sandy Jardine currently being treated for cancer. Absolutely horrible disease which I wouldnt wish on anyone. I’ve seen it first hand with my father. I’m sure folks on here would like to see Sandy make a full recovery.
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So to date we have 4 sick bar stewards who would like a fellow human being no matter what their religion, beliefs, point of view or opinions to NOT recover fron this hideous disease. You guys are not welcome on TFSM
Absolutely brilliant from Tom English (never thought I’d say that)…
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-charles-green-s-vision-in-an-exclusive-sorry-imaginary-briefing-1-2643329
Watching Yoko Ono on a Rolling Stones show just now. Made as much sense as anything Charles has said :}
Smiley face failure 🙂
Danish Pastry says:
Could be good with a scientific poll on match day among Celtic fans at the ground just to get a real insight. On a forum like this I reckon you’re always going to get 90% + who’ll be overjoyed if they never hear the words Old Firm again.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
I would love to see a poll amongst Celtic fans, all season ticket holders should be asked so we can ram the truth down the throats of The Appeaser Media.
I’m sick of hearing the same boring scripted story off of every single on of them, you know the one that starts “I spoke to a Celtic fan earlier/yesterday, and he said he missed Rangers….blah….blah…..blah”.
It’s only a matter of time before this particular myth quashed like all the others.
timalloy67 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:29(Edit)
TSFM re your point about tribute act’s pay per view screening today. I was under impression that a collective agreement was needed by all other teams in league to show games.
Also surely East Stirling would be entitled to a share of tv monies?
________________________________________________________________________
No idea what the SFL position is, but the SPL model is that all clubs can show their league matches live over IP and keep the proceeds themselves. I would imagine that Rangers are doing a similar thing with the exception that, in the absence of a Sky type deal, there is no barrier to showing the macth on the Sky/ESPN footprint areas.
Celtic and other SPL clubs do this all the time (outside of the UK & Ireland), so I don’t see how we can attribute this as some kind of character defect to Rangers – they are just maximising their revenues. Of course, they ought to do it correctly 🙂
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 00:49
9 0 Rate This
Absolutely brilliant from Tom English (never thought I’d say that)…
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-charles-green-s-vision-in-an-exclusive-sorry-imaginary-briefing-1-2643329
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Wow
If you are having difficulty explaining the meaning of life and death to a bear of very little brain, or one who only believes what Jabba and co see fit to print, please refer them to the following website.
http://www.itsanewclub.blogspot.co.uk/
Next week I will be away from home working. I will catch up with moderator duties as and when I can. Currently there are only two of us, so we will be a bit stretched. I hope to have a new blog up early next week, but I want to wait to see what happens with regard to the possible publication of the FTT before publishing.
When I come back, I will have some concrete proposals for the site improvements, and an account of monies received in donations. You have been generous and supportive and thanks for that.
Please be on your best behaviours 🙂
Couple of early Sunday morning thoughts from other side of the world
Y4mry – good to see the Canaries win yesterday – amazing that the English commentator suggested that Norwich beating Man Utd was a positive in that it showed that the league was not a one team league and on a given day, anyone can beat them. This was spoken about in a positive light – a competative league with no one certain of points no matter how big or massive they may feel they are. Contrastt aht with anytime Celtic drop a point and the MSM cry that TRFC not being in their “rightful” place has made the league weaker. Balderdash! To see 18,000 at Pittodrie and a sell out at Tynecastle shows a healthy state as regards fans turning up. Yet it wont be mentioned anywhere.
As for games against Trigger’s Broom – I never enjoyed them personally. Great crowd and atmosphere – but you could feel the hatred and non football nonsense being spouted. Not waht I would call banter! I personally want to avoid seeing them on the same pitch in cups with us for a few years – they are a new club despite their wish to be the old one without the “toxic items”. For Bill Miller the toxic items he talked about were on the balance sheet of the black hole he could see for the club’s accounts, showing why CG is in a hurray to fleece the Bears and Dave King to help out. My reference to the toxic items is not on the balance sheet – it is shown in the postings and ravings on FF and RM and Lego Land – some of these toxic comments are also eminating from a certain Chris Graham who should know better in his attempt to become a supporters leader. While those toxic elements remain in TRFC, I am in no hurry to welcome them to Celtic Park for the very first time…………
TSFM says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 01:42
Reading between the lines are you working on the assumption that the FTTT will be published early next week?
Well done Tom English. A devastating pis-take of Chuckles. Only one major flaw I can see in the piece. Chuckles is not actually looking to make inroads into the nether regions of China. He is, however, attempting to create a new minging dynasty much closer to home by appealing to the mandarin hoardes here.
The Dallas Cowboys/Adidas/EPL stuff is comedic and deserves all the ‘who flung dung’ Tom English can muster.
However, the deliberate ploy of Green winding up the bogits in order to line his own pockets is far from funny and, as Corsicacharity points out, someone will pay a heavy price for it.
I hope Tom or maybe even Graham Spiers will shine a spotlight on this soon. For the moment, thank you, Tom.
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 00:49
Agreed: excellent article by Tom English and the choice of photograph is sublime.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-charles-green-s-vision-in-an-exclusive-sorry-imaginary-briefing-1-2643329
You would think that an article of this nature would make the SFA at least question if they need to re assess whether Mr Green continues to be a fit and proper person to be involved in Scottish Football.
It looks as if its odds on that we will have an Oscar Wilde situation emerging: “To lose one parent [guardian of the Club] may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
Mind you, on reflection if all comes to pas Mr Green would be number three – I forgot about (S)DM.
Mr Cosgrove – good morning if you are looking in.
Apologies if you are already aware of this.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-charles-green-s-vision-in-an-exclusive-sorry-imaginary-briefing-1-2643329
Can you please consider exploring Tom English’s article from today’s Scotland on Sunday on the Off the Ball Sunday supplement, during the newspaper review?
I believe that Tom’s exploration of the character and motives of Mr Green is worth of a wider audience and indeed the MSM in this regard should be congratulated.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:45
7 1 Rate This
Basically as a major shareholder you may not sit on the board
itself, but you effectively employ the people who do.
Tommy says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 20:11
1 0 Rate This
Palacio67 says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 18:53
Was there any truth about faults with the transmission of the
game? I’ve heard a few comments but nothing concrete.
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… Could there have been a sudden “technical fault” because Sir
Charles discovered that he was flouting SFL regulations by
broadcasting the game?
————
There was a news item/advert for the broadcast on the SFL home page today, so it must have been kosher enough. Although the SFL may have found out that they’d given a green light when they shouldn’t have?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the TRFC website:
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2727-rangerstv
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 00:49
Absolutely brilliant from Tom English (never thought I’d say that)…
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LW….and this appeared in a paper (sic) version of the MSM…?
I assume the editor is now on gardening leave…?
The fact that the Scotsman has printed the Tom English article – which was brilliant – speaks volumes for where we are. If there was the slightest chance of a successful launch or of SEVCO living long and prospering it would not have been published. The MSM now know that the gemme’s a bogey for SEVCO. The FTTT is coming out – it is damning ( I suspect many many individuals will by now have seen its contents) and from it, it will be clear that the HMRC will chase the perpetrators of the scam and the beneficiaries – disgrace to all – and even the MSM would not be able to hide this one.
I believe the share issue and even the private “Rangers family” version cannot now raise enough cash to keep the club going till the end of the season. The attempted sale of assets and lease back has again proved to be non-viable and there is now nowhere left for them to go.
Jabba’s absence yesterday from Your Call is indicative – I think. My fag packet calculation of their income v expenses was 11.5 mill versus 20 mill – CENKOS has expenditure at 28.8 million – therefore my assumption that they could sail until February now appeared over optimistic. they have pretty much run out of the readies right now!
Jabba will come back with a sudden and shocking exclusive this week on how close to death “Rangers” are and the need for Ibrox men of old ( who he will conveniently forget got them into the present state of deidness in the first place) to save the club is urgent.
Expect a quick sale of the club privately to King (or a proxy) in the coming days and weeks after an administration event and CVA . Expect all hell to break loose – the SFA and SPL and SFL leaderships at that point will be holed beneath the water line and mass resignations will follow. Doncaster, Regan, Ogilvie, Ballantyne and Longmuir will all be forced to go.At that point someone will released the 5-way agreement and the true extent of the corruption will be revealed.
An Armageddon then – for the perpetrators. Scottish football will emerge cleansed and hopefully a little bit wiser.
Interesting statement from TRFC on the lack of yesterday game.
Normally that sort of statement would have a categorical statement like
“all those that paid for the service will receive a full refund”
But i don’t see that.
Hmmm cashflow problem perhaps?
The last time that a screening of a match was beset with problems then Manchester was wrecked.
This time it all seems quiet …… oh yes, it is now a different club.
iceman63 says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 08:53
An Armageddon then – for the perpetrators. Scottish football will emerge cleansed and hopefully a little bit wiser.
=================================
I’ve been waiting for this moment since February so here’s hoping.
Just sent this off to the SPL Press Office.
May not achieve much but at least it will help me feel better about being stupid enough to read the thing the first place.
“I made the mistake of reading the back page of the Sunday Mail this morning.
In the body of their main story they described the SPL as ‘now toxic’.
This was presented as a statement of fact. There was no qualification or any other indication that it was a personal or editorial comment.
Can I ask if you will be making any reply to this apparent slur on your organisation?
Particularly as attendances and the overall standard of competition this year would suggest quite the opposite.
I would hope that you will not let this statement stand unchallenged as to do so may lead some to believe that you agree.
Regards
KT”.
For the record (pun not intended but quite like it anyway) I have corrected a couple of typos from the original I sent. I hope neither they nor Mr Scargill will take offence at me calling them the SLP!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/spl-plan-to-ditch-toxic-structure.19448547
If this is just a quick and dirty way of getting TRFC back into the “SPL” then I am done with Scottish football forever.
When will they stop treating the fans like morons?
Morning all.
I am the only one that thinks Charlies attempt at Pay Per View TV failed because quite simply,hardly anyone paid for it?.
Why pay £7 or whatever to watch a game online when there are plenty of sites where you could watch the game for nothing.That seven quid could be spent on shares,you know.
Also,best wishes to Sandy Jardine as he fights this terrible illness.i was at Celtic Park last night for a fundraiser for a 4 year old lad with cancer,amongst other things.Pretty harrowing when you see close up how it affects families and friends.
Best wishes also to Wee Oscar.your dad did you proud last night.
I think it is clear that Doncaster is indicating that his plan for reconstruction is aimed at getting Sevco back to the top tier. Instead of clubs joining this new format on merit, those at the top of SFL div 1, ‘clubs will be invited’.
Who are these clubs Mr Doncaster. However it is not surprising that he will not tell us how or who he intends to invite, he does not want supporters to lobby their clubs again. I would bet that the full details of the con will not be made available until the day of the vote.
I would also bet Sevco will be one of those invited. It is time for Doncaster to pack his bags, leave Hampden and take up a job at his beloved Sevco.
Sevco appear to be out of cash…the SFA appear to have accepted Turnbull’s opinion they are corrupt…the SFL administered by ex rangers (now liquidated) ex season ticket holders who have changed their own rules to allow the tribute act in…
Corrupt doesn’t begin to describe Scottish football!
TJB – more than likely CG had employed some cheap skate internet company who tried to do this with 2 college graduates on the fly. It maximises profits. Having worked in IT industry for more years than some of these young kids have been alive, yet they get paid a pittance to do stuff experienced folks would deem difficult – all in the name of profit. Recently RBOS got caught letting cheap untrained labour do their banking systems upgrade and we know what cost that had…
http://www.zdnet.com/rbs-gives-more-detail-on-it-failure-train-wreck-7000000143/
No doubt CG had someone hook a few PCs up to mock up some server and it crashed when 2 folks logged on……..
Its what is know as maximising profit. Something he is about to give the Bears a real lesson in…….
No one should be surprised at this latest (rumoured) SPL proposal
Donkey never went away, as he just retired to a dark room to lick his wounds, and hatch new ways to realise his dream of a Sevco return to the top flight
Remember too, that players and officials of Sevco were at pains to point out that they would be back sooner rather than later, hinting at another carve up
Another attempt to rehabilitate Sevco, masquerading as re-construction will soon be underway, have no doubts about that
exiledcelt says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 10:16
TJB – more than likely CG had employed some cheap skate internet company who tried to do this with 2 college graduates on the fly. It maximises profits. Having worked in IT industry for more years than some of these young kids have been alive, yet they get paid a pittance to do stuff experienced folks would deem difficult – all in the name of profit. Recently RBOS got caught letting cheap untrained labour do their banking systems upgrade and we know what cost that had…
http://www.zdnet.com/rbs-gives-more-detail-on-it-failure-train-wreck-7000000143/
No doubt CG had someone hook a few PCs up to mock up some server and it crashed when 2 folks logged on……..
Its what is know as maximising profit. Something he is about to give the Bears a real lesson in…….
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But I thought he was going into partnership with Apple?.
would he pass the SPLs F&PP test:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/rapper-snoop-dogg-has-sights-set-1443321#.UKir5KrXi24.twitter
Erm…aye…eh….ok…then…but rather than Beckham in a Celtic shirt, can we not have hover pitches instead?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/rapper-snoop-dogg-has-sights-set-1443321
torrejohnbhoy says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 10:33
But I thought he was going into partnership with Apple?.
=========
He claims that he was misheard.
He actually said that he was going into partnership a pal.
oops! ………. insert ‘with’
Guys guys you are so negative on the streaming of the Sevco game yesterday ,it has now been released that due to 50 million sevco fans all logging on at the same time the system went into meltdown ,fans have been told that due to the costs in returning their cash a token to use towards buying a share will be sent out and thank you for your continued support.
Ps ,please log on to the next meltdown ,sorry streaming in a weeks time for the chance to collect further tokens.
I have watched Billy Goats head butting gate posts in a field many times, but now I’m seeing the governors of our Scottish game doing exactly the same thing with these new league structure proposals. Have they not learned anything from the last 6 months?
The statement that the SPL is now considered toxic due to the summer of discontent and the demise of Rangers is laughable. The SPL was more toxic before due to the duopoly, the 11-1 voting structure of the SPL, inequitable payments of TV revenues, uneven and unjust terms be it due to cover ups, refereeing decisions, tribunals and of course one eyed reporting in the MSM. It was made even more toxic due to the lack of blooded youth and youth developement by SPL clubs and the SFA itself.
The SPL season so far has been terrific, maybe it is not all bad after all. It maybe only needs a tweek here and there with possibly a 14/16 team league with more relegations spots and play offs. But a strong emphasis should be on youth developement, it is the only way forward for clubs and country. The billy goats at the SPL, SFL and SFA should take note, we the fans are not for turning and will not tolerate shoe horning of any newco into the top tiers. Swally bagging the SPL is also a bit rich since he was always an advocate for maintaining the status quo.
I went to a bouncing Pittodrie yesterday, not the best of games but still very entertaining and with a 18,000 plus strong crowd. Fantastic atmosphere and a decent advert for our game. Congrats to Celtic by the way, they just deserved the win (said thru gritted teeth I hasten to add)
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 00:49
51 0 Rate This
Absolutely brilliant from Tom English (never thought I’d say that)…
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-charles-green-s-vision-in-an-exclusive-sorry-imaginary-briefing-1-2643329
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Hilariously accurate. Bravo English. Green appears to be nothing more than a fantasist.
iki – no he said he wanted a snapple 🙂
Agrajag says:
Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 22:09
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Experience suggests that most liquidators’ appetites are in proportion to the likely amount of asset recovery.
I don’t know why anyone thinks the liquidation of RFC will be any different. Nothing that has already gone before will be undone and people should not be getting their hopes up on this score.
The best outcome we can expect is (i) a decent report to the DTI on the directors’ conduct over the three years prior to 14 February 2012 and (ii) the liquidators uncovering enough information in the process to assist the main creditor, HMRC, in levying personal assessments against former directors and players as suggested in the MLM blog on Friday.
Get well soon Sandy. As a jambo you and your buddy gave me one of the greatest rollercoaster rides in 1986. For that I will always thank you.
You and your kin are in my thoughts at this hard time.
I have brought the poll forward so as to allow latecomers and newcomers to take part.
If you have already voted please do not vote again.
I know this poll has a touch of coercion about it but when completed it will be as authentic if not more so than any other poll on the present state of the game.
If one were to extrapolate from the initial result the message has to be a total condemnation of the Scottish football administrators.
The poll also emanates from a genuine cross-section of Scottish football society which gives it much more authority than the sham polls carried out in the MSM.
Finally, this poll may be used in any phone-in radio shows, letters to the papers etc.