Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.
The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.
The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.
The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?
For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.
Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.
We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.
We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true). Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.
In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;
We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.
The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.
Our mission statement will be;
- ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
- ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
- ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
- ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
- ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.
We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly. And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.
We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.
To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;
- Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so, we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
- There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
- It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.
Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.
We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.
We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.
The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.
Print your own tickets is certainly in widespread use in the states, where the line (queue) for the baseball and the Broadway show is invariably full of people unfolding A4 sheets. I recently printed my own for cricket at Northampton, where it was scanned by a chap eighty if a day, so we seem to be lagging behind a little here. My own club, Alloa, operate cash gates as do most of the rest in the Championship. It came as quite a novelty paying by card at Tynecastle and Easter Road last season.
In answer to your next question, I got over the disappointment of the defeat by reading my well thumbed copy of the Sevco accounts again. Once I’d stopped laughing, I felt really quite good with the world..
Famous song says:
Member: (50 comments)
August 17, 2015 at 9:42 pm
Print your own tickets
—————-
Ihad to do that for a couple of concerts, it is just not the same.
But alas,we move with the times.soon you will just put your hand forward and get your new gizmo watch scanned and no ticket stub for your collection. 😥
About a dozen people have replied wrt the get-together. From a wide catchment too. Everyone except one said they could go to Stirling or Perth, either of which seems possible.
More feedback might help, but I will maybe put something more concrete together in the next couple of days.
So: Perth or Stirling, how many of you would like to participate?
Count me in for Stirling. Given notice of date etc I can fly to Edinburgh,get bus from Belfast, or take the missus and the motor. It could be fun.
Big Pink
A bit OT but did you teach with John Cushley in Motherwell or Coatbridge ?
Interesting article on proposed FIFA reform.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3201364/FIFA-official-proposes-abolishing-executive-committee-reform-plan.html
A start but I’d prefer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESy-Z8vqMrE
Re the chat on future guests for the blog, I see Michael Stewart getting a mention. Having heard his views on Radio Scotland on what happened in 2012 Stewart is a big no thanks for me personally. His views were ‘Rangers were relegated to the bottom league, what more do people want?’ If only it was so simple. I can’t tell the mods how to do business and would never attempt to, but personally I will not be listening to someone who is so outspoken on every other subject under the sun but is so willing to toe the party line on what happened in 2012.
upthehoops says:
Member: (829 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 7:17 am
And that from a man with political ambitions!
Oh wait, he’d fit in perfectly. Scotland is desperate for politicians who will turn a blind eye for the sake of a few votes.
‘Move along now, nothing to see here,’ the perfect answer for anyone seeking to climb the ladder at either Westminster or Holyrood.
Where are the politicians, or journalists, seeking to right wrongs?
upthehoops says:
August 18, 2015 at 7:17 am
From what you say of Michael Stewart’s comments and from what I have seen and heard of of him on radio and TV he would be ideal.
He seems someone who will stand up for himself and what he says so why not have him on and, if what you say it true, challenge what his views are and question how he got there?
Having a stream of contributors who only blow smoke up our erses for seemingly holding the correct view and opinion on every single issue regarding Scottish football will make any enhanced site a pretty boring place.
Lord forbid we become a blinkered ‘Sporting Integrity’ version of WATP.
If the site develops as intended then I would like to see invitations to Keevins, Spiers, Jack, Cosgrove, English et al to get involved and answering questions from real fans.
A lengthy one-one one type interview may be able to get a bit more depth to some issues and draw out much more from these folks than is allowed on short radio and TV pieces or the rabble that sometimes ensues when multi contributors on say Sportsound discuss an issue for 20mins but don’t really get anywhere.
I don’t know much about Michael Stewart, but if he really believes that “Rangers” were relegated 3 divisions, then maybe it would be best to have him on SFM Radio and have his views subjected to a reasoned debate. I think that would make for interesting listening, personally.
I don’t think that we will gain much traction in the wider world by simply refusing to discuss such a fundamental issue with “non-believers”. By debating the matter fully in the public arena, we might actually change some minds. We will never change anything by confining ourselves to talking with people who already agree with us.
Wottpi, I’m in complete agreement with you. Was just in the process of writing something similar but I couldn’t put it any better than you just have.
Big Pink says:
Moderator: (351 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 12:11 am
‘..So: Perth or Stirling, how many of you would like to participate?’
_______
Count me in for either venue!I can jet in from Turnhouse. 🙂
wottpi says:
Member: (707 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 9:40 am
‘…Having a stream of contributors who only blow smoke up our erses for seemingly holding the correct view and opinion on every single issue regarding Scottish football will make any enhanced site a pretty boring place.’
_______
I agree.
But Stewart denying an absolute truth is very different from a Stewart offering a ‘difference of opinion’!
‘Rangers’ as was was NOT relegated.They lost entitlement to membership.The new club was lucky enough to be admitted for the first time into Scottish Football.
There can be no legitimate difference of opinion in relation to those facts.
And having any kind of rational discourse with someone who denies fact is impossible.
Worse still would be having discourse with someone who, in spite of knowing the truth, shilly-shallies about telling it, for ‘political’ reasons.
John Clark says:
Member: (1113 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 10:18 am
Even more reason for having such a person (if indeed Stewart does deny such facts/truth) on to discuss how they reach such conclusions, or why they choose to spin things in such a manner.
I, and I am sure many others, truly would be interested to see how people view such matters and reach their conclusions.
Given your sterling work attending the tax case hearings then you would be ideally placed to probe, question and draw out a ‘relegation/liquidation’ denier. 🙂
If they are seen to shilly-shally then they can be exposed once and folks on here can put their mind to rest once and for all with regard to the value of that persons contribution to that particular aspect of Scottish Football.
John Clark says:
Member: (1113 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 10:18 am
I am in agreement with both you and wottpi, though I think you would probably both agree with each other, in that I expect wottpi would seek to see Stewart’s ‘opinion’ debunked for the cop-out it is.
One of the problems our blog will encounter in trying to encourage high profile guests is that people who want to be interviewed by the media do so for a reason, usually having a book/record/movie to sell, or a career to advance, or, occassionally, a point of view or belief to put across. The latter are probably the only category who would be prepared to take part in a SFM debate or interview, and very few, if any, who hold the opposite view to, say, John Clark or myself, for they know it would be challenged, unrelentingly, and would only stand up if it is, indeed, valid.
Nobody with a weak argument allows themselves to be grilled by an agressive interviewer, such as Paxman, unless they have no choice. In Paxman’s case, ‘no choice’ equated to him inviting his ‘victim’ onto his show, as refusal to appear would be seen as cowardly and weak. We don’t have that luxury.
I’d suggest that, to reach the wider audience we seek, we would first have to get a reputation for good interviews and debates with football people with good stories to tell, or contovercial points to make, that don’t come across as aimed against any one club.
Alternatively, in a totally make or break kind of way, go for the extreme controverciality (is that actually a word?), that no one would want to miss (though a few radios might fly through a good few windows), of an interview with a certain Irish blogger.
In truth, my sympathies are with those who have the job of finding the guests to fulfil the ambitions of the blog, it’s not going to be easy.
John Clark says:
Member: (1113 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 10:18 am
But Stewart denying an absolute truth is very different from a Stewart offering a ‘difference of opinion’!
=======================
All the more reason to give him a platform to make a complete fool of himself. But I gather he’s not a complete fool, so he’ll most likely just say that he used the word “relegation” as a shorthand for what actually happened. Or maybe he attaches a meaning to the word that is wider than the technical football rulebook meaning? The word is used in other contexts, and dictionary definition is very wide. Of course that will then lead directly to the old club/new club debate. His view on that probably differs from the majority view on here. If so, let’s get it out there, and fully discussed. I really don’t see the problem with that.
Ex Ludo says:
Member: (2 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 12:29 am
Big Pink
A bit OT but did you teach with John Cushley in Motherwell or Coatbridge ?
———–
John Cushley also taught in East Kilbride. He was my English teacher in my O level year in 1975
upthehoops says:
Member: (829 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 7:17 am
Re the chat on future guests for the blog, I see Michael Stewart getting a mention. Having heard his views on Radio Scotland on what happened in 2012 Stewart is a big no thanks for me personally. His views were ‘Rangers were relegated to the bottom league, what more do people want?’ If only it was so simple. I can’t tell the mods how to do business and would never attempt to, but personally I will not be listening to someone who is so outspoken on every other subject under the sun but is so willing to toe the party line on what happened in 2012.
===========
UTH
I wouldn’t dispute Stewart may have said this (your word is enough for me 🙂 )
However I have heard him be very outspoken on the Sevco realities on a number of occassions in the past so I do think he would have something interesting to say IMO.
I have also heard him quite clearly go against the company line on a number of occassions much to the unhappiness of his co-presenters, pundits. The one occassion that sticks out was when he criticised McCoist’s management (long before the PR dogs were out to discredit him). What was interesting about this was Stewart seemed to claim in a following sportsound show that McCoist had afterwards called him up to (what I inferred) tell Stewart he was NOT to criticise him and seemed to more or less threaten Stewart to back off. Stewart was not only ambivalent to the tone of this but actually announced he had a call from Coisty on the show much to the stunned silence of the radio scotland team again.
I have to add the caveat I may not have recalled this exactly but my feeling is that M Stewart will have his say and is not scared of the old boys network “coming after” him.
Just my opinion but he is a potential guest i’d be interested to hear from.
I am sure any guest invitation to come onto the blog will not be sent out on the back of a xmas card to any Turkeys,but then again.
Guys I seldom comment due to the excellent input but follow daily. Should we not be deliberately inviting people with opposite views? in order to try and understand their position and they ours? I would look at RSL in the first instance for me they manage to communicate well without the bile and hatred, any of the following would be good, Bill McMurdo, Ninjaman, John James and Alan Parker. I feel these guys are actually good representatives of their Club, there are of course many others and the list is not exhaustive.
Late, wacky suggestion for the get-together: The ideal place would have to enable the most number of folk to get to the venue with the least amount of hassle. My guess is that almost everybody could get to Carlisle or Newcastle without changing trains. (or buses for us lower order types.)
When I hear the darlings were “relegated”, I generally offer £20 for the precise date, as I want to go to the newspaper archives, to see what the DR and ET said about this cataclysmic event at the time. The Famous wallet remains unopened.
Matty Roth says:
Member: (226 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 11:39 am
‘…I have to add the caveat I may not have recalled this exactly .’
_______
Your recollection squares with mine,Matty Roth, hence my surprise at what UTH reports about Stewart’s ‘relegation’ comment.Not that I question UTH, of course.
Maybe we should have Stewart on just to clear up the matter of where he stands on the point!
There is no debate and no matter of opinion on whether Rangers were relegated or not. They weren’t it’s as simple as that.
If I remember correctly they were second in the SPL at the end of the season so how could they have been relegated. There was no provision for the second place team to be relegated, so it couldn’t have happened.
There was also no provision for a team to be relegated from the top League to the third tier of the lower league. It simply couldn’t have happened, there was no way of it happening.
I suspect Mr Stewart will simply say that he used the word as a way of describing what had happened to the club, without getting involved in controversial discussions. That for the purposes of what he was saying that definition worked. That may be a cowardly position however it would explain him using the term (incorrectly).
I’d love us to be able to develop the site to the point where we could get more than one guest in for a Q&A. Wouldn’t it be great if we could get three or four, all with differing viewpoints, at the same time? A sort of “Question Time” where the agenda is set by the fans asking the questions, and chaired by one of more esteemed posters? I saw the names of Spiers, Cosgrove, Stewart, McMurdo and Keevins mentioned earlier on, to name but a few. It would be fantastic if we were able to develop to the point of having them on at the same time. A bit like what the BBC are supposed to do on Sportsound, but in this case, with actual balance and objectivity.
I know we need to walk before we can run, but there is nothing wrong with ambition…so long as there is a sustainable plan!
Perhaps RIFC should get Mark Warburon to sign an Auditor on loan?
If Phil’s story is true, its further evidence that the RIFC board would be better appearing on “I Haven’t a Clue”, than sitting in the Blue Room.
In any event, at least they now have a football manager who knows what he’s doing
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-auditor-search-continues/#more-6709
Before interviewing anyone I’d suggest a clear concise statement of our view on:
• D Murray’s term at RFC (IL) until 2012
• the change from that club to sevco to TRFC
and
the role played by SFA and SMSM in facilitating this chimera.
Both produced in text and audio.
Then visitors/interviewees will know what motivates our fire.
DCK was reported the other month as aiming for circa £13m revenue from 45k season tickets.
I believe the total to date stands at an admirable 33k.
On Kings own prediction that is £3.5m short.
If 45k was Plan A anyone have an idea what is Plan B?
One wonders what the issue the proposed auditors might be having is? One is attracted to the possibility that it is in raising DT’s going concern warning that one might imagine was fairly crucial to the forthcoming share issue. One might be wrong of course but one doesn’t think so.
One suspects this has text book pump and dump written all over it hence the auditors all running a mile which is ironic because I actually think, on this occasion, it is not what certainly the 3bs or possibly even King has in mind.
Re Michael Stewart:
I believe he has political aspirations. I also think he’s a shrewd cookie.
He surely wouldn’t be naive enough to go on record about the reality of the “continuity myth” on a blog/podcast that wouldn’t give him anything positive in the wider constituency, but could well be used negatively against him in the future?
If he carried out any research, he’d be asking for the list of topics in advance & then stating what he will & will not talk about. Still, it could give his interrogator the chance to do a Paxo & ask the same question more than twelve times!
I’d like to second the concise statement idea – though conceding concise might be difficult. I do think that for anyone – even someone sympathetic – coming to this site after the passage of time it would be hard to ‘get up to speed.’ I think it should be at the front of the site. Ideally it would be incontrovertible which might mean avoiding some areas but surely the basic narrative is enough to avoid a lot of the ‘relegation’ type dross? (But Michael Stewart nonetheless gets a supporting vote from me …) I have served my time following this site twice a day and have to concede that details blur even for the committed…
Tris was the first person to break the news about Baker Tilly. His information source, which was not from within TRFC or RIFC, told him that BT had sought assurances in terms of disclosure and transparency from their prospective clients.
He did ask if there any reservations in the company in respect of taking on RIFC (I think his exact words were “are you mental?”).
The response was that were lots, particularly with regard to staff safety, but that they are determined to do the job properly and will not be hindered in that goal.
If they knew what he meant when he asked if they were mental and have staff safety concerns but still take on the work then the answer must be yes they are mental. The safety concerns are real and the staff is a best being put into an invidious positionand at worst being sacrificed for no real cause. Where should the loyalty and duties of care lie? Is there some professional duty compelling the carrying out of the work?
Are BBC Scotland trying to brand Celtic as an Irish club?
Listening to BBC Sportsound I’ve become more aware of their tendency of late to employ Irish commentators to comment on things Celtic.
mungoboy says:
Member: (105 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 6:55 pm
If memory serves, about this time last year weren’t those highly talented scribes from the SMSM pretty scathing about a club bringing in players on loan?
Didn’t they see it as an indication of falling on hard times and a lowering of standards plus an unwillingness to ‘splash the cash’ in the transfer market?
Move on to the present day and our talented hacks can hardly contain their excitement at the prospect of ‘starlets’ & ‘wonder kids’ arriving on loan to play in the second level of Scottish Fitba’.
Anybody got any idea when Paisley Road West became the new route whereby one could reach Damascus?
======================================================
Well first you do this: it will take about 52 hours:
Head east on Paisley Rd W/A761 toward Torbreck St
Then about 48hrs later duck.
On the subject of a night out, assuming I am around at the time, my first choice would have to be Arbroath, because “Scottish Football needs a …” but Perth would be alright, Stirling at a push.
Interesting talk with Jon Daly on Sportsound potentially.
Glad i said potentially.
However for all the Ally scorching and I’ve done some.
Nice to hear only 6 weeks after meeting each other for the first time, AMcC attended Daly’s dads funeral quietly and left without anyone realizing he had been there.
A month-long Police Scotland initiative aims to raise awareness of crimes relating to a person’s sexual orientations,gender identity,faith,ethnicity or disability.Supt Ross Aitken said if anyone feels they have been the victim of a crime which is motivated by malice or ill will because of their sexual orientation,gender identity,faith,ethnicity or disability,they should report it to us.We take all such reports very seriously and will conduct thorough investigations to ensure perpetrators are brought to justice.
The police scotland initiative could get a lot of phone calls the next time fans at ibrox sing up to their knees.How will they ensure perpetrators are brought to justice?
Will they take the SFA stance there were to many of them.
wottpi says:
Member: (709 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 5:07 pm
I think Mr King’s figures must have been gross. They would suggest an average price of c£290 which does not reflect what has been reported in the last couple of sets of accounts, adjusting for known increases.
Rangers will not be paying corporation tax, however there will be VAT on the season tickets, which has to be deducted. If we adjust for that VAT the average price would be c£241, which is much more in line with what one would expect.
So sales of 33,000 or so will generate a bit short of £8m, net of VAT. Given that expenses in the previous accounts ran at an average of around £2.5m. Even if we adjust that down to say £2m then the season tickets generate roughly enough for 4 months of trading.
With very little coming in from merchandising it’s difficult to see how the club funds the remainder of the year.
If we assume a rights issue raises £20m (which I believe is extremely optimistic, particularly without a general meeting), take off the outstanding loan and expenses (of the issue) of say £8m. That leaves £12m. Possibly enough make up the difference and run the club for a year.
However that means all of the money goes on running costs and none is used as “investment”. The situation could be described as awkward.
33,000 season ticket sales, whilst as you say an admirable figure, really isn’t enough. Now if they can keep the support coming on a weekly basis that helps the figures overall. It does however potentially cause cash flow issues (particularly with no credit line). If they stop coming, for whatever reason then it’s anyone’s guess what will happen.
Season ticket sales are vital for even short term planning.
alexander276 says:
Member: (25 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 5:28 pm
‘… I do think that for anyone – even someone sympathetic – coming to this site after the passage of time it would be hard to ‘get up to speed.’’
_________
There has ,indeed,been lots of detail relating to the many different, if connected, strands of this infernal ‘saga’, and , as you say, alexander276, it would be hard for someone starting now to reduce all that has been written down to the really essential matter.
I myself distinguish the following strands:
a)the recognised cheating by SDM on the double front of failure to pay (some, at the moment) social taxes and the failure to disclose to the football authorities,thus enabling RFC to spend millions on players of higher quality than he would otherwise have been able to buy
b) the failure of the Football Authorities either to spot this non-disclosure or ask serious questions of the RFC accounts , OR, having spotted it (from inside knowledge of how RFC was funding itself), their failure to discipline RFC for those breaches of Rule
c)the possibly quite deliberate attempt to mislead the LNS enquiry by not providing ALL of the highly relevant material that was available, and the definite, deliberate piece of nonsense spouted by Mr Bryson on the question of unregistered players
d)the ludicrous conclusion by the LNS enquiry that no ‘sporting advantage’ was achieved by a club which spent (undisclosed to the authorities) millions of pounds buying players of much higher quality than it could ever have legitimately afforded
e)the frantic, deceitful, bludgeoning of the SPL and SFL by the Football authorities to try to bounce a brand new club into the SPL or at least into SFL I, and the whole horrid deal encompassed in the ‘5-way agreement’
f) the antecedent question of whether the granting of licence to RFC by UEFA was based on the fact that the truth about RFC’s ‘social tax’ situation had not been disclosed
g) and the whole damnable question as to why the SMSM were not all over the various stories like the proverbial rash, their failure to do so making themselves complicit in a monstrous act of sports deceit
In addition, there is the issue of whether TRFC will survive.
I can say that whether it does or does not is not in itself a matter of great importance to me ( provided it is not allowed honours and titles won by a now dead, different sports club.
It WOULD become hugely important if it began to appear that our Football Authorities were preparing to go to the same extraordinary lengths in an effort to save it as they did to try to save RFC.
They have shown a readiness once already to abandon principle. They will be prepared to do so again if they thought it would help, and if we were to let them.
A heads-up such as I have given above this might be useful.
The mildly entertaining ( or riveting!) stuff about Tax Tribunals and criminal charges and reluctant Auditors and international criminal figures,and so on, can be added as incentive to people to get to grips with the basics!
jw hardin says:
Member: (24 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm
‘..Listening to BBC Sportsound I’ve become more aware of their tendency of late to employ Irish commentators to comment on things Celtic.’
________
Well, I suppose we’ve all heard of the ‘gift of the gab’ and the Blarney stone , both being expressive of the ability of the ‘Irish’ ( whether from Nor’n Ireland or the Republic) to speak off-the-cuff with ease and facility, and usually with a touch of humour.
If Bonner and English are routinely assigned to Celtic games and no others, your dark suspicions might then be justified!
I’ll give Sportsound the benefit of the doubt meantime, I think. 🙂
John Clark says:
Member: (1115 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 8:59 pm
alexander276 says:
Member: (25 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 5:28 pm
‘… I do think that for anyone – even someone sympathetic – coming to this site after the passage of time it would be hard to ‘get up to speed.’’
_________
There has ,indeed,been lots of detail relating to the many different, if connected, strands of this infernal ‘saga’, and , as you say, alexander276, it would be hard for someone starting now to reduce all that has been written down to the really essential matter.
I myself distinguish the following strands:
a)the recognised cheating by SDM on the double front of failure to pay (some, at the moment) social taxes and the failure to disclose to the football authorities,thus enabling RFC to spend millions on players of higher quality than he would otherwise have been able to buy
b) the failure of the Football Authorities either to spot this non-disclosure or ask serious questions of the RFC accounts , OR, having spotted it (from inside knowledge of how RFC was funding itself), their failure to discipline RFC for those breaches of Rule
c)the possibly quite deliberate attempt to mislead the LNS enquiry by not providing ALL of the highly relevant material that was available, and the definite, deliberate piece of nonsense spouted by Mr Bryson on the question of unregistered players
d)the ludicrous conclusion by the LNS enquiry that no ‘sporting advantage’ was achieved by a club which spent (undisclosed to the authorities) millions of pounds buying players of much higher quality than it could ever have legitimately afforded
e)the frantic, deceitful, bludgeoning of the SPL and SFL by the Football authorities to try to bounce a brand new club into the SPL or at least into SFL I, and the whole horrid deal encompassed in the ‘5-way agreement’
f) the antecedent question of whether the granting of licence to RFC by UEFA was based on the fact that the truth about RFC’s ‘social tax’ situation had not been disclosed
g) and the whole damnable question as to why the SMSM were not all over the various stories like the proverbial rash, their failure to do so making themselves complicit in a monstrous act of sports deceit
In addition, there is the issue of whether TRFC will survive.
I can say that whether it does or does not is not in itself a matter of great importance to me ( provided it is not allowed honours and titles won by a now dead, different sports club.
It WOULD become hugely important if it began to appear that our Football Authorities were preparing to go to the same extraordinary lengths in an effort to save it as they did to try to save RFC.
They have shown a readiness once already to abandon principle. They will be prepared to do so again if they thought it would help, and if we were to let them.
A heads-up such as I have given above this might be useful.
The mildly entertaining ( or riveting!) stuff about Tax Tribunals and criminal charges and reluctant Auditors and international criminal figures,and so on, can be added as incentive to people to get to grips with the basics!
====================================================
And John you could add a 1 2 and 3 stirred up mainly by related stushies.
Charlotte version one. Declared a valid source for an English court. Untouched by our Media virtually. Outcome sub judice ?
Charlotte relation of the CO CW dinner tet a tet. There is still a bombshell in there convinced of it.
The supposed outcome (by me anyhow) from the above settlement being the deposit with BDO of many millions into the fund for shall we say survivors (of which DK believes erroneously he is one).
Also where is the original EBT designer. He used to live near me now gone missing again.
I hate an unsolved mystery.
ianagain says:
Member: (667 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 10:52 pm
‘..And John you could add a 1 2 and 3 stirred up mainly by related stushies.’
_______
I’m with you on the first two, and would happily see them included in the ‘charges’ against the Football Authorities, and as evidence that the SMSM are/were motivated as much by complicity in the task of saving ‘RFC’ , protecting SDM’s name and record, and protecting dirty wee deals from public scrutiny, as by any supposed fear of being sued for using ‘unauthorised emails’.
I’m not entirely understanding the third point , about BDO.
And you’ve got me, on the ‘original EBT designer’Wasn’t that the pornographer/disbarred lawyer chappie?Or are you referring to someone else?
When you get a minute, maybe you can fill me in. I might well have missed some significant stuff!
John
I’m merely saying in the original 3 way BDO Collyer Withey case the judge ruled the Charlotte stuff in. He asked for all the material collated for him to read.
Now neither James Doleman or I could get to the subsequent hearing nor it seems did anyone else. Their may never have been one. The Lawyer magazine;no one reported it.
So all we get next is CB have caved in, sought out their insurance underwriter and happily BDO are millions better off. If that doesn’t arouse interest, well.
As regards Bristow. Yes its aroused some local interest that he has vanished. Again.
ianagain says:
Member: (668 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 11:37 pm
‘I’m merely saying in the original 3 way BDO Collyer Withey case the judge ruled the Charlotte stuff in. He asked for all the material collated for him to read.’
_____
Yes, ianagain, I remember that, and remember hoping that the SMSM would get right tore in to all of the Charlotte stuff and expose the whole dirty dirt, as guys having a pee were audibly recorded, and as half-cut, or perhaps, pretendy half-cut horse-loving Yorkshire barrow-boys were waxing eloquent!
No such luck, of course.
But, hands up, I can be awful stupid!
Is it suggested that the whole collyer-bristow/withey/BDO case was a staged piece of insurance-deception fraud? So that the liquidators of RFC(IL) would have some millions available for the creditors of the liquidated club? One of whom would have been , apparently, our Castlemilk south African-based friend, he of the deep pockets but very brachially challenged?
Sounds an interesting scenario!
But there must be a publicly available record of the Collyer Bristow case.
We must try to find it, to see what the hell t was all about.
One wee plus point if BDO have some millions, is that the smaller creditors of RFC(IL) might get some money.
If HMRC lose their appeal!
ianagainianagain says:
Member: (668 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 7:25 pm
Interesting talk with Jon Daly on Sportsound
———–
As you mentioned it wasn’t the fireworks they had perhaps expected. Daly came across as a thoughtful, sympathetic and intelligent young man. Kenny M. was baiting a bit with his questions about ‘reaction’ to his signing both in Ireland & Glasgow. But JD spoke well, and as you say, especially of McCoist.
A wee bit off topic, but since it’s the quiet season, there is from time to time mention of masonic brothers and funny handshakes influencing certain parts of Scottish society. A really fascinating story is a book on Sid Gallagher’s home page. I’d never heard much of Sid, but his life is a real Glasgow tale that you can relate to (as a native, at least). The closing chapters deal with some quite amazing events surrounding court cases.
Short book, free download link bottom left, and well worth a read in an idle moment:
http://sidgallagher.com
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1357 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 8:30 am
____________________________________________
I read Sid’s story a few days ago DP. It really is a good read. (Thanks to Tom Minogue for the link)
Homunculus says:
August 18, 2015 at 8:19 pm
Agreed. Whatever way you look at it there is probably enough in the bank to keep things going until Christmas.
By that time a small bit of relief from paying of the gardeners will also help!
Running costs should, with the offloading of some high earners and if any sense has prevailed, be a bit lower than in the past.
However as in previous years it seems like cash will be required for general running costs come the new year.
I note that over on the Bears Den some are celebrating the fact that the boardroom and financial comments board has gone quite and folks are back talking about the fitba.
They will take their eye of the financial ball at their peril!!!
Still a long way to go and a high degree of uncertainty with regards to securing adequate funds in 2016 IMHO
John Clark says: August 19, 2015 at 12:11 am
========================
The Collyer Bristow case was settled “out of court” following mediation between the parties after the initial court hearings.
That being the case then there would be no public record of proceedings.
Here is an extract from the BDO report of Nov 2014:
The separate case looking at divvying up the £3M+ cash in the Collyer Bristow client account was also settled by negotiation.
=======================
On a separate issue, the CoS decision on the latest HMRC EBT appeal should appear here when it is published.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/court-of-session
wottpi says:
Member: (710 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 10:45 am
Homunculus says:
August 18, 2015 at 8:19 pm
Agreed. Whatever way you look at it there is probably enough in the bank to keep things going until Christmas.
——————–
christmas,when the loans are due to be repaid
Cluster One says:
August 19, 2015 at 11:23 am
Indeed I had forgotten that the first £1.5m loan deal from the 3Bs ends on 31 December 2015.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12290913.html
No idea what the arrangements was re the other £1.5m that was loaned later on.
So the options are pay back the cash, extent the loan repayment period or get something sorted to allow the loan to be transferred into shares.
A lot of work to be done over the next four months.
easyJambo says:
Member: (729 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 11:15 am
‘The Collyer Bristow case was settled “out of court” .
_________
Of course it was , I had forgotten that,and thanks for reminding me.
Is it permitted to speculate about whether and/or how that ‘out-of-court’
settlement might impinge upon any criminal trial the date of which we are all constantly on the look-out for?
A penny caramel to the poster who first spots the date and venue of same!
wottpi says:
Member: (711 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 12:20 pm
Indeed I had forgotten that the first £1.5m loan deal from the 3Bs ends on 31 December 2015.
——————
Is the £5 million loan not due then to?
Cluster One says:
August 19, 2015 at 12:59 pm
In relation to the SD £5m – “There is no specified repayment period for the first tranche of the Facility.”
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12227853.html
(The second tranche of £5m, if that had been taken up, had a five years to be repaid)
There has been speculation that, when Ashley asked for the money to be paid back earlier in the year and forcing the EGM, there must have been some from of loan condition that could have required immediate payback of the £5m, such as a breach of contract or similar. However as we know it has all gone quiet on that front and there has been no evidence of a ‘three pronged attack’ by Ashley on the new board.
Therefore the £5m loan sits in the accounts rolling along as unpaid until such time someone on either side makes and issue of it.
Big Pink says:
Moderator: (352 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 5:34 pm
Phil is now reporting:
“Both Baker Tilly and Campbell Dallas LLP refused to deny what was put to them.”
Interesting response that is qualitatively different from a standard no comment
jean7brodie says:
Member: (344 comments)
I read Sid’s story a few days ago DP. It really is a good read. (Thanks to Tom Minogue for the link)
————-
Yes, it was a tweet by Tom M that put me on to it. A real eye-opener, especially in light of recent events. And if it happens one place to one i dividual it can happen in other circumstances and situations. These groups are ultimately subversive, imo.
Bang-on DP. Scotland’s most influential export after her people and the Scottish Enlightenment.
The mention of Campbell Dallas prompted me to have a look at their web page.
“Campbell Dallas is one of the most dynamic and progressive firms of independent Chartered Accountants in Scotland. We believe that it is our responsibility to look after our clients needs. Clients view us very much as part of their own organisation, seeking strategic business advice from us. Our clients come in all shapes and sizes and so do our disciplines. We tailor our services and shape them to fit your needs because ultimately we are focussed on your peace of mind and helping you succeed.”
Does anyone else think they should have a look at the possibility that their readiness to “tailor our services and shape them to fit your needs because ultimately we are focused on your peace of mind and helping you succeed” might suggest a certain ambivalence in regard to their objectivity as auditors?
I think I would be inclined to re-draft that bit of their blurb!
John Clark says:
Member: (1120 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 12:32 pm
easyJambo says:
Member: (729 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 11:15 am
‘The Collyer Bristow case was settled “out of court” .
_________
Of course it was , I had forgotten that,and thanks for reminding me.
Is it permitted to speculate about whether and/or how that ‘out-of-court’
settlement might impinge upon any criminal trial the date of which we are all constantly on the look-out for?
A penny caramel to the poster who first spots the date and venue of same!
============================
JC
I also forgot that.
Personally Id settle for a black jack. I come cheap.
In relation to the settlement I note two things:
A court date was booked for part 2.
CB took it to the line just as they seemed to do with other settlements made around the same time (having successfully sued their own professional indemnity insurers).
That makes me think they looked at what had (at the judges direction been garnered from Charlotte and should have been presented to him had the case proceeded) and thought you know its busted.
Be very very interesting (should I receive the black jack) if the Scots courts admit this tape recorded shenanigans and if BDO turned up anything the rest of us have not?
Yes. Get that co efficient up lads.
Listened to the much praised Mark Wilson on Radio Scotland.
Can’t say I was impressed in the slightest. More suited to Radio Clyde was my initial impression.
He might grow on me like Derek Ferguson has though. Ferguson could barely string an understandable sentence when he started but is pretty good now.
Anyway Celtic need another goal to make this safe hopefully
I find Derek Ferguson’s verbal tics rather off putting he has a range of them Tell you what must occur 100 times per hour. Mark Wilson just said Celtic done something that should be sufficient to disbar him from the BBC. You can take the man out of academia but not academia from the man, forgive me.
Homunculus says:
Member: (209 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 8:19 pm
wottpi says:
Member: (709 comments)
August 18, 2015 at 5:07 pm
However that means all of the money goes on running costs and none is used as “investment”. The situation could be described as awkward.
==========================================================================
Homuculus…you certainly do have a way with words…what a superb understatement…at this rate you will possibly match my old friend and mentor John Clark(e) as the “wordsmith” of the blog…but then again, he has apparently recruited my other old sparring partner Scapa, in winding me up…exchanging quotations from that dastardly Willie Shakingspear… 😳
So Essex where is our Sarf branch meeting going to be?
No need for a tin hat, self inflicted. Akin to well at the weekend.
ianagain says:
Member: (672 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 9:28 pm
So Essex where is our Sarf branch meeting going to be?
===============================================================
Ianagain…anywhere except “sarf of the river”…currently E1-E2 are ok for suitable (hopefully!) pubs…but please remember that the Central Line, on its way back to deepest Essex, has no toilets on it… 😳
Essex Liverpool STREET AREA?
Bill1903 says:
Member: (84 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 9:07 pm
‘..He might grow on me like Derek Ferguson has though. Ferguson could barely string an understandable sentence when he started but is pretty good now.’
__________
I agree that Derek has come on in relative leaps and bounds.
Far be it from me to accuse Richard Gordon of any Svengali tendencies, but he has, over the last couple of seasons, been most extraordinarily ready to accord Derek a degree of respect and commentator/pundit value that initially, to me at least,seemed a little generous!
But, I have to say, it’s clear to me that Derek has had the sense to seek advice, or to have been prepared to learn from some media-coaching guru ( Richard?), because , while he’s not likely to become an Ian Archer or even a Keef or Graham, in his ability with words, he cuts the mustard as a guy who knows the game from actually playing it, and can now find adequate ways of verbally conveying something of his professional expertise.
And there’s more to him than cliches ( how do you spell that?). There’s a wee professional honesty about him, as with Alan Preston and, indeed, with Michael Stewart.
It is not a requirement that professional footballers should be grammarians.
Especially when many journalists, whose business IS words and language, will say ‘he has came’ or ‘I seen it’ or ‘I have saw with my own eyes’ or ‘they done it’ or’ he should have saw’…….and so on and on.
(O tempora, o mores!As Wullie never said, Eb!Or did he, maybe, in Timon of Athens? 😀
Nah, don’t think so!
essexbeancounter says:
Member: (217 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 10:52 pm
‘…the Central Line, on its way back to deepest Essex, has no toilets on it… ?’
______
It’s after the water-shed(ha!), so I may be permitted to remark that I’ve heard that Essex girls, at least, do it anywhere!
There’s Only One Willie Miller says:
Member: (8 comments)
August 19, 2015 at 9:46 pm
Well done Malmo
==============================
I don’t know what your point is but I remember no ill will at all towards your team in Europe from anyone on this forum, even though they failed. Poor stuff and not for here in my view.
DP and Jean, Sid Gallagher’s story makes my blood boil.
Thanks for the link.
When I tried to go on the page for the petition to the Scottish parliament for disclosure of secret organisations… the page has been removed!
It’s hard work sometimes, this paranoia stuff!
Bad late goal for Celtic to lose.
I’m sure they are capable of getting a draw over there as Malmo are no world beaters.
Hope that late goal doesn’t come back to haunt Celtic.
Three very silly bookings picked up as well. Unlike Mr Sutton on BT I thought Johansens last minute booking was fully deserved, pointless getting involved in those situations. Doubt it helped settle his mind or that of his colleagues for that last corner either. Ciftci – I just don’t get what folk see in him.
Pretty evenly balanced tie now, but if I had to place money it would still go on Celtic.
(that’s some app BT have for the iPad by the way – top speed of players!? Never seen that one before!)