Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

ByElijah Baley

Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.

For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.

The relevant rules are as follows:

Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.

Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.

Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.

Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.

Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.

“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.

“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.

“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission?  Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all?  No. They did absolutely nothing.

“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.

“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.

“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.

“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.

“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.

“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.

“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?

“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.

“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.

“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.

“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.

“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”

——————————————————

Have a read through these edited highlights once again…

The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.

——————————————————

Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.

If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.

I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.

As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!

I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.

Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.

What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-

“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs.  As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”

What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…

No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.

As I said, it is brilliant!

He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!

And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!

However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?

Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?

As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!

Posted by Paul McConville

About the author

Elijah Baley subscriber

1,814 Comments so far

stmileyPosted on11:22 pm - Sep 14, 2012


A Expert

As Galling Fiver says, give it up.

Celtic’s house is in order.

End of.

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AngusPosted on11:32 pm - Sep 14, 2012


iamacant says:
September 14, 2012 at 23:20

Angus, I thought it was Jim Leightons face that was on the receiving end in the 2000 cup final
——–

Nope, that was Rod Wallace that time. Utter thuggery.

We have a habit of getting our goalie’s heads kicked in by the graceful twinkletoes in the blue.

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AngusPosted on11:33 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Argh! Personal report to grammar police…

goalies’ – not goalie’s. For the record, neither Leighton nor Snelders had two heads.

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ikiPosted on11:36 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Paul McConville says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:16
Today’s deals with the following words by Mr Green:-
“To make it crystal clear, the new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.
=================
Not read your blog piece yet but I hope you notice the discrepancy between the above quotation and that of Haudit and Doddit who said they Green had purchased ‘certain assets’.

Only one of them can be telling the truth ……. of course, that may be one more than is usual.

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bad capt madmanPosted on11:36 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Angus,
Don’t forget Hately on Michael Watt in the first few minutes of a crucial game.
Pattern? What pattern?

So as not to be OT, did any of the RFC players involved get carded at all? Can’t quite remember.

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iamacantPosted on11:40 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Angus says:
September 14, 2012 at 23:32
0 0 i
Rate This
iamacant says:
September 14, 2012 at 23:20

Angus, I thought it was Jim Leightons face that was on the receiving end in the 2000 cup final
——–

Nope, that was Rod Wallace that time. Utter thuggery.

We have a habit of getting our goalie’s heads kicked in by the graceful twinkletoes in the blue.

———————————————————————————————————————-
I beg to differ, McMoist was certainly the one to rearrange Leightons jaw bone, I was in the stand level with the 18 yard box when it happened and it was our “giant” Robbie Winters who stepped into the breach but to no avail. We were cheated 4-0.

RFC(IA) had 12 men on the park

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iamacantPosted on11:43 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Captain Haddock says:
September 14, 2012 at 23:36

Angus,
Don’t forget Hately on Michael Watt in the first few minutes of a crucial game.
Pattern? What pattern?

So as not to be OT, did any of the RFC players involved get carded at all? Can’t quite remember.
————————————————————————————————————-
Aye, the last game of season and all we needed was a point to win the league against a 12 man RFC(IA) team.

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CWPosted on11:45 pm - Sep 14, 2012


Summary of the week :

It’s not been a great week for Scottish Football, has it ?

1. Defensive tactic’s in the Home WCQ Opener vs Serbia (We were not BraveHearts, let’s face it !).

2. Incompetence and poor Managerial decisions in 2nd Home WCQ game against Macedonia (In fact, also applies to point 1 above !)

3. Referring to both WCQ games above, dwindling crowds turning up to see proper and meaningful games (i.e. not Friendlies).

4. Apathy of formerly Loyal Scotland Supporters has probably increased ten fold !

5. Personal point, I thought that Levein was a good appointment initially, but we ain’t going to qualify with him now – Too Cautious and Boring !. I hear the cries of “Give him the next 2 games, he might turn it around !” Sorry, he won’t! Already, at this stage, 2 games in, I would rather watch the rest of Scotland’s WCQ games with a team playing 4 – 2- 4. I’d love to reminisce in 10 years about the time we gave the Belgians and Croats a shock about how we beat them 5-4 away, or lost 6-4, giving it a go ! Levein has dragged the National Game down. We’re not going to Brazil now, so why not try and bring some excitement into the game Craig ! That’s the problem with having former defenders as National Coaches (I give you Roxburgh, Brown, Vogts, Smith, Mcleish, Burley, now Levein). The last 2 times we had an exciting world cup finals was when 2 former Forwards were in charge, namely Ally McLeod and Alex Ferguson (all be it that Sir Alex had only agreed to do it after the tragedy of Jock Stein, who is in fact the only Defender to have managed Scotland and not tried to “Lose” games just because it affects his statistics !) In Fact, Jock Stein, as a former Centre Half, was an absolute genius in reading the game, and developed his own attacking strategies into Management which were to make him a Legend in our game. I’m not even a Celtic Supporter, but Jock Stein has to be the best Manager ever seen in Scottish Football. Even Sir Alex is in awe of him ! That say’s it all ! p.s. IMHO, The National Game went downhill after Mexico ’86 when Roxburgh took over, and hasn’t really reached the heights after that.

5. Independent SPL inquest into Dual Contracts of oldco being put back until November.

6. Yorkshire Charles being given his own daily platform on MSM Redtops to spout his vile.

7. With ref to 6 above, the lack of said MSM to ask searching questions of Charles and his 20 Investors, and their true intentions.

8. Silence of The SFA and SPL (Reagan & Doncaster probably hoping it’s all a dream, and they’ll come out of the shower one day, like Bobby in Dallas, and everything in the garden is rosy !)

9. Have to go to bed now !

10. Goodnight All !

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Tina TurnerPosted on12:04 am - Sep 15, 2012


Two days ago we lost a very important battle in the fight for truth and justice. And I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere on this blog.

The announcement of our defeat was timed – either fortuitously or intentionally – for burial on a day that featured a far greater news story – ironically about a final victory in another fight for truth and justice – Hillsborough.

But not even Hillsborough should have allowed us to miss this critical victory for the enablers of Sevco. And I don’t believe it would if we were on the former RTC blog.

I’d like to draw everyone’s attention to the following link which contains the statement made by the SPL commission in setting the hearing date for November 13th. I want you all to read it carefully and see if you concur with me. I hope to God you don’t – I hope to God the RTC coneheads come on here and trash everything I’m saying. I will gladly, happily, ECSTATICALLY feel like a complete twat just so long as my reading of this is conclusively disproven:

http://videocelts.com/2012/09/blogs/spl-ignore-green-to-set-date-for-ebt-hearing

For what it’s worth I think the writer of this story, Joe McHugh, has also missed the significance of it. But it’s not his article that matters here, it’s the statement the article contains. I want to focus on the part that I believe has fatally damaged our struggle for truth and justice. It has swallowed the MSM / Sevco / SFA / SPL line whole because it accepts that there’s a self-contained entity which is the “club” as distinct from any purely commercial operation that might be running it at any given time.

The statement reads:

3. Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC, although not alleged by the SPL to have committed any breach of SPL Rules, will also have the right to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such submissions as it thinks fit.

I repeat: “Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC”.

Elsewhere in the statement the commission separates the concepts of oldco and newco as we would all accept and expect. But in referring to “Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC”, it is saying that oldco was the previous owner and operator of Rangers FC. And therefore that Rangers FC has an existence and continuity that lies outwith its “owner and operator” du jour.

Or in other words – Rangers Football Club never died and its history lives on unbroken.

There was an excellent recent post (I think by BRTH) that detailed the remit of the two-day commission, how it would establish procedure and certain definitions. The post reassured me at the time. The post is no less accurate or authoritative now – the two-day commission has indeed established definitions. But now it seems those definitions are poised to circumvent the only fitting punishment: expulsion and termination of history.

So the nasty oldco committed crimes against football and the taxpayer, then ran away. The heroic newco has now come along to stop committing those crimes and save the poor club so its history can live on intact and keep growing – minus a few blip titles which may (or indeed may not) be stripped as acknowledgement that some shady characters in the past broke a few rules. I’m sorry ladies and gentlemen, but the definitions declared by the Commission on Wednesday open the door for exactly that interpretation.

As I said above I would be delighted to be proved wrong. But even if I am proven wrong, should I be coming on here two days later to get an answer? Shouldn’t our forensic people have been all over this on day one? That’s certainly what would’ve happened on RTC.

We need to have a discussion on this blog as a matter of urgency: Is this SFM blog fit for the purpose of fighting for truth and justice against Rangers, Sevco and the enabling authorities?

In my only other post on August 1st, right at the beginning of SFM when we were all discussing the name for the new blog, I wrote:

“I really like the idea of Scottish Football Monitor. It envisages a bigger possibility than even the struggle for justice to be served on Rangers. But I also want something that still focuses on Rangers specifically – and makes a statement about them specifically – because they have not gone away, and are unlikely to soon. So maybe an additional site to Scottish Football Monitor could be set up – one specialising in the RTC core subject matter. I suggest it could be called: Rangers Post Mortem”

That post has been on my mind a lot over the past month or so, as I think the need it highlights has become more important than ever. I now disagree with the name I suggested; anything like Rangers post-mortem or Rangers autopsy, although factually accurate, gives the sense that somehow it’s all over – and that we’re in a de-brief phase.

We are most certainly not in any kind of de-brief. We are still right in the thick of the war – and it’s in its most disgusting phase of lies, propaganda and corruption. It’s no coincidence that Sevco and its enablers have enjoyed an unfettered ascendancy since the RTC blog closed.

Yet in the last few weeks – the odd oasis of forensic analysis apart – I’ve had to wade through pages and pages of content about Craig Levein, school coaching, all-weather pitches, Barcelona’s academy – and of course the new whataboutery mainstay: Why can’t we find other corruption in other football teams so the Sevconians don’t feel left out – as though the blog’s been ordered to rollout a diversity and inclusion programme.

I am not accusing all the people discussing these subjects of being trolls. No, it only takes one to start it or keep it going. And that’s because far too many things are on-topic here. In the old days, RTC could simply say if it’s not related to the Rangers tax case then it’s off topic. RTC had a simple integration of blog title and blog subject matter that practically focused itself, which is why he/she was able to spend long periods of time away from it.

But what do we have here? SFM sets itself a very wide remit. Initially, I thought that wide remit was inspiring. A few weeks into the blog itself and I started to think perhaps it was ambitious. But right now? I’m sorry to say right now, in the middle of this Sevco scandal, I find its remit indulgent.

If I wanted to troll this blog I wouldn’t bring whataboutery or controversy or aggression. I would bring pies.

I would passionately discuss the pies at football grounds and I would argue, with some justification, that it’s appropriate to MONITOR the state of pies at SCOTTISH FOOTBALL grounds on the SFM blog. In much the same way as RTC kept us all on-topic about the Rangers tax case. Okay, I know I’m being absurd, but the principal holds – whenever anyone gets close to the truth about Sevco and its enablers there is an enormous wealth of topics to distract the blog with – and stay on topic. It’s easy being a troll these days. In fact, on SFM, they don’t even need to troll.

And that’s the fundamental problem with this site. Its main positive – its laudable aim of monitoring the whole of Scottish football – is also its Achilles tendon when it comes to keeping the focus on the war that we’re about to lose.

The next phase of the Rangers scandal is critical – the FFT verdict will be announced in weeks, the SPL Commission will then convene, Lord Hodge may rule on D&P, Charles Green may float Sevco, a number of other court actions etc may take place – plus the usual leftfield surprises. We need a blog devoted entirely to this scandal – nothing else. And it needs to be up and running within the next two weeks.

Some may tell me to do it myself. But I have neither the knowledge nor the credibility to raise anything even remotely adequate to successfully confront Sevco and its enablers. No, this needs to be someone who already carries the respect and gravity of our former RTC community. It needs to be Barcabhoy, BRTH, Paulie Walnuts, EasyJambo, Corsica, Hirsute Pursuit, John Clarke, Goosy – or any of the other heavyweight coneheads from the old school who can keep us all on board to focus on this scandal and this scandal alone.

The Scottish Football Monitor will sail on – hopefully to great success in its inspiringly honourable aims. But it needs to hand over the main scandal to a dedicated website that can relentlessly expose and analyse the ongoing scandal around Rangers in all its forms – past, present and future.

On SFM we have lost our focus, which means we have lost our edge. If we don’t act now we will soon lose the war.

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CastofThousandsPosted on12:08 am - Sep 15, 2012


For reasons that defy logic I feel the need to stick up for Ally McCoist.
He is one of the few figures in Scottish Football to have (had) a media friendly persona in the UK. He has suffered the humiliation of watching the club over which he has been given stewardship and which he has supported since he was a boy, disintegrate within the grasp of his own hands. This does not forgive some of his actions recently but it might explain them. The Jekyll and Hyde analogy is a good description of his circumstances. That inside that warm and endearing human exterior there is a desperate and defensive being is part of the human condition. That his default character should display some of the unattractive aspects associated with Glasgow b*gotry is unfortunate but perhaps not as surprising as it should be. His well publicised comments were indeed reprehensible and if they were premeditated then they border on the unforgivable. These are desperate times and people are resorting to desperate measures. Its not pleasant to observe and I think much of the vilification he has brought on himself. I’m just hoping that somewhere down the line, maybe when some earnest contrition has been displayed, there’ll be a wee corner of redemptioon set aside for Mr. McCoist. I suspect that any of us is capable of rank spupidity when we find ourselves cornered with apparently no means of escape. Its not a particularly rational conclusion to come to but I’m only human.

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smallteaserPosted on12:11 am - Sep 15, 2012


WOTTPI says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:10
.
However if the Rangers scheme has similar aims to the Celtic scheme as detailed they could just as easily been to pay for medical treatment for a family member or a care package for an elderly parent etc etc.

The point is that the EBT schemes could be used in a number of ways, some of which many people would think as being highly laudable.

If used for such purposes then anyone on either side of the green and blue fence would be well within their rights to tell people to mind their own business.
—————————————————————————————————–
Forgive me, you saying that either Souness or Smith would need the help of the club who were using tax avoidance schemes to help a family member or an elderly parent, while still working, but at another club???. Are you being serious or just late on a Friday.
Yes everyone is aware that EBT’s can be used quite legally, even the porn star has told people that.
Yes if everything was legit then I am sure that Souness and Smith could also come out and tell people to mind their own business…., they didn’t, their silence said more than anything else.
There was nothing to say that the EBT’s for them was illegal but maybe any denial may have led to further questions which they didn’t want aired.

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CortesPosted on12:20 am - Sep 15, 2012


Good news must be imminent with such an outbreak of trolling. Looking forward to seeing some weel kent faces in the dock…

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PaulmacPosted on12:21 am - Sep 15, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:48

Ally McCoist – we took legal advice and we believe that they cannot take our titles away.

Ally – how did all the legal advice that your (old) club sought on EBTs work out?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2 things regards the above…

1. They are not SEVCO titles…apparently they bought the history?
2. I’d love to see SEVCO go to court to defend the loss of purchased history?

How does that work?

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smallteaserPosted on12:34 am - Sep 15, 2012


For what it’s worth,though,I was told yesterday that they are already on the case and are looking at the “phoenix,same name” scenario.
Time will tell.
=============================================================
According to the BBC website yesterday the money from the Euros would go to pay part of the money owed to BDO, I asked yesterday what this was for.

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StevieBCPosted on12:36 am - Sep 15, 2012


Castofthousands says: September 15, 2012 at 00:08

For reasons that defy logic I feel the need to stick up for Ally McCoist…
============================================================

Well argued COT – and having previously had a similar ‘high’ opinion of McCoist I was disappointed with his outburst. Being objective, I would agree with your premise that he will eventually show contrition…but don’t think that’s going to be anytime soon as per his quotes in Telegraph.

“…The titles will never go, they can Tippex all they like,” he said. “I would imagine they won’t be Tippexing in our trophy room. Anyway, I don’t see anyone chapping on doors and asking for medals back.
That’s the most important thing, being able to show your kids and your grandkids the medals… ”
That short extract illustrates several serious flaws in his attitude. Not a nice individual IMO.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9543866/Ally-McCoist-baffled-by-SPL-decision-not-to-investigate-Celtics-EBT-payment-to-Juninho.html

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WOTTPIPosted on12:38 am - Sep 15, 2012


Thereek says:

September 14, 2012 at 22:49

I hear what you say but note that until we hear any more evidence both Souness and Smith are currently innocent, which was the thrust of my arguement.

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AngusPosted on12:40 am - Sep 15, 2012


iamacant says:
September 14, 2012 at 23:40

I beg to differ, McMoist was certainly the one to rearrange Leightons jaw bone,
—–
Whilst I entirely agree we were completely swindled, I direct the honourable gentleman to the following Youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y27NJ7wzuUE&noredirect=1

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twopanda bearsPosted on12:41 am - Sep 15, 2012


Undisclosed RFC payments

Obfuscation EBT stories Saturday blitz just kicked off on online versions of:

• Express
• Mail
• Telegraph – our very good friend “Roddy” of HMRC fame

MSM so predictable – We can just try and guess what`s coming from the rest

– Blimey

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WOTTPIPosted on12:43 am - Sep 15, 2012


smallteaser says:

September 15, 2012 at 00:11

Hear what you say and while one would guess they don’t need the dosh one could easily see in the world of rich and famous that SDM hears of a wee family predicament and offers to help out by placing cash in the EBT for the person to withdraw.

Unlikely but not impossible given the reported close relationship between the people we are talkng about.

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TallBoy PoppyPosted on12:46 am - Sep 15, 2012


Anybody in any doubt about McCoist should read today’s Telegraph. (Roddy must think it’s safe to come out now.)

The decision by the Scottish Premier League not to investigate Celtic for their use of an Employee Benefit Trust to make a payment to Juninho – the Brazilian midfielder who played for them in 2004-05 – is perplexing, according to Ally McCoist.

Roddy Forsyth

By Roddy Forsyth

10:30PM BST 14 Sep 2012

The Ibrox manager, whose club – in its previous incarnation as Rangers FC is being investigated to establish if EBTs were used to make player payments which were not admitted to the Scottish football authorities – declared himself puzzled by the ruling.

“You would have to ask them [the SPL] how it works but it does baffle me ever so slightly,” he said yesterday. “At the same time, that’s another decision that doesn’t surprise me.

“I don’t know how it works. My reading of the situation is that the SPL have accepted that EBT because the money was paid to the player after he left the club.

“What has that got to do with his performances while he’s at the club? Nothing. You would agree that’s a strange one.”

The SPL on Friday declined to discuss Juninho but The Daily Telegraph can clarify that the matter at issue is not the EBT but the question of the timing of the payment and that, since it was made when he was no longer registered as a Celtic player, it does not merit further investigation.
Related Articles

The obvious question which might be asked is why any club would make an ex-gratia payment to a former player if it had not been stipulated in his original contract of employment, but The Daily Telegraphunderstands that no paperwork has been identified that would constitute a breach of the rules.

Rangers have refused to participate in the investigation set up by the SPL and chaired by Lord Nimmo Smith, which is due to report by November its findings and possible consequences for the Ibrox oldco, which could run to stripping of league titles. When the prospect of having championships deleted from the records was raised with McCoist, he responded with now familiar defiance.

“The titles will never go, they can Tippex all they like,” he said. “I would imagine they won’t be Tippexing in our trophy room. Anyway, I don’t see anyone chapping on doors and asking for medals back.

“That’s the most important thing, being able to show your kids and your grandkids the medals. Even in this era of high finance and big money, that’s still the most important thing to the players and you can’t Tippex that out.

“We have taken a stand. The vast majority of people I have spoken to – not just Rangers fans, believe it’s fast becoming a witch-hunt. I can tell you right now, they will never take the titles away.”

Be that as it may, in the here and now, McCoist is engaged in a campaign to secure the SFL Third Division title in a campaign which has not gone as simply as many anticipated.

What odds would have been given at the start of the season on Rangers reaching mid-September behind Peterhead and Clyde on points, having failed to keep a clean sheet in four games and having been behind in three?

Ahead of Saturday afternoon’s trip to Annan Athletic – who play on an artificial pitch – Lee McCulloch contemplated the conundrum. “I honestly don’t know,” said the veteran Ibrox midfielder.

“Maybe the players have to take responsibility in the first 20 minutes to start the game as a battle, with a high tempo and just carry it through but in both the away games we have scored first.

“It’s as if we’ve thought, ‘Oh well, that’s it’ instead of going for the second and third goals.”

The Annan fixture has attracted interest from international broadcasters – and McCoist said: “Whether we like it or not, it is a global story. There is something warped about it, but I can’t tell you how much I love it.

“We have been up to Brechin, up to Peterhead and have had 49,000 fans against East Stirling.

“There is French television, German television, Dutch television. The week before there was a boy from the New York Times or the Chicago Tribune or whatever it was. I can’t do the crossword in the New York Times and there is a boy here asking me about football!”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9543866/Ally-McCoist-baffled-by-SPL-decision-not-to-investigate-Celtics-EBT-payment-to-Juninho.htmlr

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Kindred SpiritPosted on12:50 am - Sep 15, 2012


Paulmac says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:21
1 0 Rate This
Long Time Lurker says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:48

Ally McCoist – we took legal advice and we believe that they cannot take our titles away.

Ally – how did all the legal advice that your (old) club sought on EBTs work out?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2 things regards the above…

1. They are not SEVCO titles…apparently they bought the history?
2. I’d love to see SEVCO go to court to defend the loss of purchased history?

How does that work?
============================================================

Very astute wording by sally

“we” took legal advise
“we” believe that they cannot take our titles away

no mention of “our legal lawyers said they cannot take our titles away”

sally has been well advised on the wording’s here

or so “we” believe 🙂

View Comment

goosyPosted on12:53 am - Sep 15, 2012


iki says:

September 14, 2012 at 23:

Paul McConville says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:16
Today’s deals with the following words by Mr Green:-
“To make it crystal clear, the new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.
=================
Not read your blog piece yet but I hope you notice the discrepancy between the above quotation and that of Haudit and Doddit who said they Green had purchased ‘certain assets’.

Only one of them can be telling the truth ……. of course, that may be one more than is usual.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Iki
Sorry to disagree but

They are both right IMO

Because ……….I reckon
1 Sevco 5088 bought certain assets from RFC(IA)
Plus
2 Sevco 5088 bought certain assets from RFCG
And
1+2 = all the business and assets of Rangers .

Meaning
Sometime between the onset of Administration in Feb and the sale to Green in June
D&P did a confidential deal with Whyte that they thought could be argued as being in the best interest of all the Creditors
like
Cancelling the CW floating charge over Ibrox and MP in exchange for acknowledging ( or transferring) to RFCG the legal title to Ibrox and MP

Thus

enabling Sevco 5088 to be sold the residual heritable asset i.e. the Car Park for £1.5m
( reasonable price)
And
Sevco 5088 concurrently buying Ibrox from Whyte (RFCG) in exchange for RFCG getting a fixed or floating charge over MP at a price that is confidential

Thus enabling
Sevco Scotland to buy ( Green calls it “transfer”) Ibrox, MP and the Car Park from Sevco 5088 together with the fixed or floating charge over MP that Sevco 5088 agreed with Whyte

,,,,,,,,,,,

What all this means imo is that the purchase has been structured n such a way that Sevco
Scotland end up owning Ibrox,MP and the Car Park but have accepted a floating charge over MP at a debt figute that is undisclosed

,,,,,,,,,

View Comment

CWPosted on1:00 am - Sep 15, 2012


Castofthousands says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:08

For reasons that defy logic I feel the need to stick up for Ally McCoist.
He is one of the few figures in Scottish Football to have (had) a media friendly persona in the UK. He has suffered the humiliation of watching the club over which he has been given stewardship and which he has supported since he was a boy, disintegrate within the grasp of his own hands. This does not forgive some of his actions recently but it might explain them. The Jekyll and Hyde analogy is a good description of his circumstances. That inside that warm and endearing human exterior there is a desperate and defensive being is part of the human condition. That his default character should display some of the unattractive aspects associated with Glasgow b*gotry is unfortunate but perhaps not as surprising as it should be. His well publicised comments were indeed reprehensible and if they were premeditated then they border on the unforgivable. These are desperate times and people are resorting to desperate measures. Its not pleasant to observe and I think much of the vilification he has brought on himself. I’m just hoping that somewhere down the line, maybe when some earnest contrition has been displayed, there’ll be a wee corner of redemptioon set aside for Mr. McCoist. I suspect that any of us is capable of rank spupidity when we find ourselves cornered with apparently no means of escape. Its not a particularly rational conclusion to come to but I’m only human

———————————————————————————————————–

Yeah right ! From the old Chewing The Fat Programs, “I Smell S%$£e !”

There’s Trolling and there’s Trolling !

Yes, I agree, Ally McCoist was respected in his old Question Of Sport day’s ! Really appreciated what he did for Scotland as well!

Even respected him giving up his Media Career and learning his “Coaching” trade from Walter.

Funny thing is though, as soon as Walter retired, and Ally took over, Ally never quite got to the last lesson, which was entitled “Dignity”.

TBH, I’ve never seen such a change in one person.

A couple of thoughts come to mind Re- Mr McCoist. He’s either :

1. Desperate to pursue a career in Football Management, and is trying hard to prove he is no Dud.

2. He is totally a Blue Nose, and has a WATP mentality.

3. He’s no more than a wee puppet, having his strings pulled by Chuckles, with the promise of a good pay day at the end !

Unfortunately, as I am a total cynic, there is more to this story than we know.

Ally ? – SuperAlly or SuperPatsie ? Time will tell !

View Comment

CWPosted on1:11 am - Sep 15, 2012


p.s. Anyone else here find it strange the way McCoist was paraded by Walter as the new messiah, 4 Months before Walter “retired” ?

Walter knew what was coming up, he had given hints. McCoist took on “The Poisoned Chalice”.

It all stinks ! Something’s just don’t add up !

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CWPosted on1:16 am - Sep 15, 2012


p.s. again,

Does anyone know the background of Mr Whytes Dad, known as Tom I believe ! If he has the floating charge, what is is background ? He seems to be happily flying under the radar ?

Sorry for asking the question, but neither Lawyer nor Accountant am I !

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Charlie BrownPosted on1:58 am - Sep 15, 2012


Regards Newco/Sevco as the current owner & operator of The Rangers Football Club.

Well actually as the SFA saw fit to transfer the existing membership from Oldco to Newco this actually becomes at least partially true. Rangers Football Club Plc will be liquidated and that company will die BUT The Rangers Football Club as it is known within the Scottish & wider footballing community remains undead a ‘zombie’ if you will.

Of course the now renamed Sevco are a new company and as a consequence lost any automatic entitlement to play in the SPL or SFL and had to apply to join a league to play in, they also cannot play in Europe as they are ineligible under UEFA rules. They currently cannot sign any players for 12 months as they accepted the transfer embargo for the wrongdoings of Craig Whyte during their final season as Rangers Football Club Plc (in administration pending liquidation). They also accepted they would still have to repay outstanding football debts incurred by Oldco.

Therefore at least some of sins of the father will be visited upon the son.

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MikecPosted on3:30 am - Sep 15, 2012


Open letter to Mr.A McCoist
Dear Ally
I hear you at odds to understand Celtic have been investigated re the juninho EBT. To enable you to get your head round it may I offer the following as an explanation.
1. Firstly the SPL did NOT investigate the use of an EBT scheme , that has nothing to do with them that is anHMRC issue – follow me so far ?
2. What they did investigate was if Celtic paid monies to him outside of the registered contract I.e. there was a dual contract issue. Dual contracts in themselves are not “illegal” in themselves so long as they are registered with the football authorities. O.K. Still with me ?
3. The Celtic investigation found that there was no case to answer – why? Because presumably no sums outside the contract were paid. NO NO I hear you say they paid him through an EBT, Ally calm down go back and read point 1 ……again and again and again ……. Was that a penny I heard drop ? NO well I will try to explain further
4. Let’s assume that Celtic and Juninho sign a contract worth £1.2m over 18 months and register it with the SPL – ok – after 6 months it is agreed jointly that he can be released from that contract, he will still be owed 800k approx – yes? – are you keeping up with me ? – they then pay it to him through an EBT. THERE YOU ARE I HEAR YOU SAY – THEY PAID HIM THROUGH AN EBT – GOT YOU. Ally take a Valium and go back to point number 1 and read again and again ……penny dropped ? Err emm ………

Now compare that with the situation you know happened at your club , is it the same ?

Better sign off now and get some sleep …… Keep taking the tablets.

Yours in football

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ExiledCeltPosted on3:59 am - Sep 15, 2012


A Expert says:

September 14, 2012 at 11:59
The Invisible Line says:
September 14, 2012 at 11:35

September 14, 2012 at 11:09

On RTC it was discussed at length – there is no seeping under any carpets.

From what I remember in statements made by Celtic and discussions on RTC it was payments to an EBT already set up by Boro for him that the money was paid into.

This was the check that was then done to see if thsi was ok ro not – the player and his agent had said no problem – but Celtic (good for them) wanted to ensure nothing was going to come back on them.

I have no issue with what they did – and if it helps any, Paul McConville did a piece at the time which I agreed with, that Celtic shoudl take the high ground and say we did nothing wrong and it is confirmed nothing was done, however we withdraw from that season for any games he played in and will accept a 0-3 loss. At the time I thought it would be helpful.

Now due to the nonsense eminating from leaders such as Chris Graham, this woudl be seen as an admittance of guilt and confirmation of their nonsense. So now I have changed my mind

To be fair, I don’t have green glasses – I am a much a critic of Celtic as anyone else – as my prior postings on here and RTC can show

Unfortunately, here I don’t see anything I would criticise Celtic for other than wasting money on him.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ok – that is much clearer now – thanks and I wouldn’t want Paul McC representing me in Court if he’s recommending confessing to something I didn’t do!!.

Re the time line – did Celtic go to HMRC and pay up as soon as soon as they got their accountants advice or did HMRC raise the issue first

**

Paul McC was not talking from legal stand point but from moral standpoint – so no need to have any cheap shot at him – as I said, I agreed with him at the time that we should have taken the high ground at the time to enable the rabble mongers to be silenced and the more noble bears to have some help to gain the ascendency to retake their club.. However the rabble mongers have won the day thanks to Charlie so there is no need to morally do the right thing – time for the right things to be done legally.

As for the timing, they form what I understand got legal advice and then approached the taxman who agreed with the advice they were given – Hector never persued them if that was the inference.

Also – just to clarify further – Celtic also informed SPL the whole way of what was going on.

Another difference!

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ExiledCeltPosted on4:35 am - Sep 15, 2012


spanner says:

September 14, 2012 at 21:58

stmiley says:
September 14, 2012 at 21:42

Sorry I am not aware of which party it is supposed to discredit that is why I asked, did hear a story that one of the newco party was asked to leave a meeting, but that was about it.

**********

Spanner – is this you trying to introduce the ramblings of your pal Chris Graham put out on Rangers Standard blog that one of our posters tried to debate with him, but as usual Chris was his usual fascist self not allowing anyone to question his taxi driver heard from a woman who was taking her dog to a vet stuff he posts as facts. No point putting your toe in the water – if you want to repeat the Chris Graham allegations – go ahead – don’t hide behind the curtain trying to prompt stuff…..then we can debate what you want

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iceman63Posted on7:09 am - Sep 15, 2012


The main obstacles to truth and justice in the case of RFC are the media . They will not act as journalists in Scotland and refuse point blank to report the truth and they actively suppress it or deflect from it should it happen to reach the stage where some truth must be publidhed. The footballing authorities have created a brand new entity in a club which exists outwith any legal body in which it is incotporated a God club if you wil to render it devoid of body and to create the concept of a club having an immortal soul beyond the body. The legal and financial authorities have developed total paralysis.
We live in a country which like some Orwellian creation can tell us 2+2
=5

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M8 DreamerPosted on7:29 am - Sep 15, 2012


Further to todays ramblings from the Sevco/Rangers Tribute Act assistant mouthpiece stating that there is a conspiracy against his club, would he not be better at concerning himself with regards to the hundreds of creditors who have been victims of the £134 million fraud carried out by Rangers Football Club (IA).
Has anybody within Sevco/Rangers Tribute Act ever heard of the words sorry,apologise, contrition,justice,rules etc as they are now becoming the most odius organistaion within Scottish Football.
The only injustices that have occurred within Scottish Football recentlyhas been the complete failure of the Scottish Football Authorities to apply their rules fairly to every club in Scotland by allowing one club to be immune from the rule book.
Only when these injustices have eventually been investigated and dealt with properly, will Scottish Football be able to move on and deal with the other issues that are critical to the future of football.

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ExiledCeltPosted on7:59 am - Sep 15, 2012


Interesting on here that the Chris Graham call to arms and to fight back by blogging, emailing and twittering the “truth” (his reasoning was that they had got Phil, so now they go and bring down the others) has been taken up

Suddenly we have strangers popping up asking questions about Juninho, Dermot Desmond, fights at the SPL meeting, suddenly telling us that Ally is indeed a nice man and when the answer is given that they don’t want, you get the response along the lines of “see this is a Celtic site, no one wants to see the truth, I am leaving and I won’t be back”, only to reappear 5 mins later….

I liked especially the Ally always knows the doormans name story. Apparently Himmler knew his driver’s name but that did not mean he was an angel either.

I met Ally as well

My Rangers supporting nephew picked me up at Glasgow airport – as we made our way to the car park, we found Ally looking for his car – he had forgotten where he had parked it – which I have also done many times.

He joked with us and I suggested he turn on the alarm on his key fob thing – a car’s lights sprang to life over a few rows away so he switched it off and thanked us.

Since my nephew was sporting a Rangers top, he presumed we were Ra Peepil and made some joke about it easier to score against Celtic than find his car or something lame like that. When I responded that it was easier to find his car than Kris Boyd score against Celtic or some decent team, he figured out I was not one of Ra Peepil.

His demeanour changed to me big time – he smiled, shook my nephews hand and then waved to me as he spun away…..

I have watched him a long time on the pitch for Celtic – and actually saw his first game at Celtic Park where he was a deer in headlights alongside Pritz and Russel playing in midfield. He was moved up front where his lack of passing ability or control could not be a massive detriment to the team.

I watched him on Question of Sport being a cheeky wee chappy. Was great fun and Sue Barker was clearly enamoured with him. As were other ladies allegedly 🙂

However, I have also seen him whisper to a smiling NL something odious that made NL lose it – and his wee smug grin of satisfaction as he backed off said it all. A cowardly act.

As was his dog whispering – his “I cannot be held responsible for idiots” shoudl have been changed to “but can you admit that you will be responsible for the innocent folks that wil suffer at the hands of the idiots, given you know that they are out there?”.

I am not blind to everyone’s faults – including my own – but I am not prepared to sugar coat anyone because they know the doormans name (who of course is a Celtic supporter just to give it more juice lol).

Ally and CG have between them moved the anti sectarianism movement back years in order to make some folks money. If they can be comfortable with that fact and have no regrets – more power to them. CG is not from WoS – he does not know any better. Ally knows full well that the fanatics are now hanging on every word – he has a lot to be responsible for.

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spannerPosted on7:59 am - Sep 15, 2012


The Invisible Line says:
September 15, 2012 at 04:35

I have no interest in debating with people who have such dogmatic views about people they know nothing about and a subject yet to be ruled upon, you obviously fit that shoe very well.

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carlisleceltPosted on8:02 am - Sep 15, 2012


It appears this club Sevco or whatever have committed so many different crimes and you know what I cannot help but feel they will get away with the lot. I have no faith in Scotland and slowly losing interest in the Scottish game. Very sad!

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ExiledCeltPosted on8:23 am - Sep 15, 2012


Spanner – subject yet to be ruled on ha ha – oh you blew your cover there. Cheers!!!!

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scottcPosted on8:25 am - Sep 15, 2012


The Iceman says:
September 15, 2012 at 07:09

… The footballing authorities have created a brand new entity in a club which exists outwith any legal body in which it is incorporated …

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

… and to me, that is where this will all collapse. The phantom ‘club’ is NOT a legal entity, in this scenario and so it is legally unable to enter into any contracts. Now that means, I believe, that it will not be able to sign any players. If that is the case, the current TRFC players are not registered to any football club but to a private limited company, which means surely, that in football terms, they are not registered at all.

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spannerPosted on8:30 am - Sep 15, 2012


The Invisible Line says:
September 15, 2012 at 08:23

What a thoroughly unpleasant character you are, everything that is wrong with the beautiful game and today’s society an ignore function would be appropriate for your type.

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ExiledCeltPosted on8:35 am - Sep 15, 2012


spanner says:

September 15, 2012 at 07:59

So not allowed to criticise your manager Alastair since it is “about people they know nothing about” yet you can now post that I am an “unpleasant character”

Maybe in RM and FF this is considered debate but over here in the real word – attacks are easy to make – and rather cowardly, just like Alastair.

Enjoy Annan – am sure you will be making friedns today again no doubt!

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ExiledCeltPosted on8:45 am - Sep 15, 2012


Just an FYI – my nom de plum came from Charles Greens promises in his televised chat with the lines of fans waiting to buy tickets. he proclaimed to the Bears that there was an invisible line he had agreed with Alastair while they were watching from the window that if the season ticket line crosed that invisible line, he could name the player of his choice and he would sign him no problem.

His quote was “there’s an invisible line there – you can’t see it….”

Well that is why it is invisible

Seems the line produced 800K and Templeton was the man Ally wanted above all

What a deal!

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abigboydiditandranawayPosted on8:46 am - Sep 15, 2012


spanner says:

September 14, 2012 at 16:16

We might be able to safely claim them…

My point was more about whether or not we’d want them!

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TommyBPosted on9:22 am - Sep 15, 2012


That CG et al refuse to believe it possible that they can be stripped of their awards, is in my humble opinion irrelevant. The true record of Championships won and trophies awarded lie with the organisation making the award. If the SPL/SFA decide to sanction them in this way, it is possible thtat they could continue to claim amongst themselves that they have kept the history of their wins. However, that would be a bit like Fred Goodwin insisting that he is still sir Fred and that it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. I’m sure if you check the peerage lists, you will find that his name has been removed. RM,FF and other like minded publications as well as the “people who think they are, will forever claim that their history is intact, but there are many aspects to those claims as we all know. The truth is that the current team playing on the south side have won nothing, in this their first season.

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ikiPosted on9:22 am - Sep 15, 2012


Goosy says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:53
Iki
Sorry to disagree but
They are both right IMO
=========
Thanks for response.
I was taking a literal understanding of what had been said.
Your explanation made sense to me ……. they are a sleekit bunch.

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Palacio67Posted on10:12 am - Sep 15, 2012


Tina Turner says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:04

Great Post, I would urge all to go back and have a read. With all the Juninho nonsense the blog is going off on a tangent, keep the focus on the main issue. There are to many trolling at the moment, do not feed them.
Keep up the good work.

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michael bPosted on10:36 am - Sep 15, 2012


Regards Celtic use of EBT v Rangers use of EBT.

over on RTC, someone once compared and commented that a child’s reaction to being caught went through several stages, Denial (I didn’t do it), eventually to Everyone did it, before finally accepting wrongdoing. This being the case, maybe acceptance is just around the corner…………..

Anyway,

Given that Celtic have kept counsel over the use of EBTs and given that the Club are now under attack by all over at Twoclubs, this may be the time for Celtic to comment, but only regards their own use of EBT’s.

One idea would be to:
welcome an independent enquiry, that would take away much of the flak.
Announce that if, said enquiry found that, Juninho was improperly registered, then Celtic would accept that the results should be amended to 0-3 for each game that he played in and would also recompense any club that was adversely affected by the consequence of Celtic’s actions (whilst obviously reserving the right to defend celtic’s position through any such enquiry).

This would, at a stroke, snub out anything coming from the south side of the city as the implications there would be far worse (though the defence of Oldclub would be implemented immediately that any financial considerations came into play).
It would also show that Celtic are willing and able to face up to the implications of prior decisions made, additionally it would show publicly that Celtic have nothing to fear from co-operating fully (in an open and transparent manner)

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:48 am - Sep 15, 2012


what was wrong with the independant panel that just looked into it and said no case ? just wrong answer ?

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AgrajagPosted on10:57 am - Sep 15, 2012


Castofthousands says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:08

================================

If what he said was on TV, or at a press conference, some spur of the moment reaction to a question then there may be some justification. No matter how little.

He said what he said on Rangers TV. It was scripted and pre-meditated. It was designed to achieve certain things. These included intimidating innocent people doing a job, rallying the troops and selling season tickets. It worked, the loyal absolutely lapped it up.

He and Green have carried on the motif ever since.They have played to the crowd with talk of b!g0try against Rangers, persecution of the cub, kangaroo courts etc etc.

There is no excuse.

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BrendaPosted on11:03 am - Sep 15, 2012


New box of straws for Sally!! 🙂 my oh my he’s looking a tad rrrruuuufffff lol do you think all this truth, honesty and proof is making him feel a bit sick to the stomach 🙂

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jonnyodPosted on11:07 am - Sep 15, 2012


paul martin says:
September 15, 2012 at 10:48
what was wrong with the independent panel that just looked into it and said no case ? just wrong answer ?
======================================================================
Apparently one of the panels nephews once walked past PL niece on the same side of the street in Benidorm whilst on holiday in the same Region at the same time but keep it to yourself or Leggo will be all over it
Legned has it he’s like a human (alcohol in the ) bloodhound and a (glue)sniffer dog rolled into one

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Lamp Post SanniesPosted on11:09 am - Sep 15, 2012


As has been stated numerous times on here and RTC there is a difference between Dual Contracts and EBTs. An inquiry into the alleged use of one, either one, has no bearing on a separate enquiry into the use of the other. You can be paid via an EBT without having two contracts and vice versa. For some reason though the MSM and Rangers fans seem to use the terms interchangably.

It also seems to be the common suggestion from a certain type of poster that any player who was paid via en EBT must have been incorrectly registered with the SFA and so any games they featured in should be changed to a 0-3 defeat for the team in question, all teams using EBTs not just Rangers. If we follow this line of reasoning then, logically, only games after the EBT payment should be affected by this ruling (if it is only the EBT payment that then results in the players ineligibilty).

So what would the effect of this hypothetical rule be on previous results? Well, for Celtic, given that the sole payment to an EBT for Juninho was at the end of his stay with the club and was a payment to pay off the remainder of his contract without him playing again then there would be no change to any previous results. He did not play again after the EBT payment so there can be no 0-3 result changes.

For Rangers though…… Well you can try and work that one out yourselves.

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coineanachantaighePosted on11:31 am - Sep 15, 2012


As someone who is not a Celtic supporter and doesn’t even like or admire Celtic can I just say this Celtic EBT thing is getting a bit ridiculous: it’s obviously nothing but a red herring. We know the tax was paid, we know the SPL gave a clean bill of health.

To keep answering a question that has been answered clearly about 100 times now is just a distraction – which is the reason it was brought up in the first case and keeps being brought up. I know some of you will feel annoyed seeing it come up and feel the urge to waste time answering it but try to take a deep breadth and ignore it. Then maybe it will just go away.

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Night TerrorPosted on11:53 am - Sep 15, 2012


monsieurbunny says:
September 15, 2012 at 11:31

As someone who is not a Celtic supporter and doesn’t even like or admire Celtic can I just say this Celtic EBT thing is getting a bit ridiculous: it’s obviously nothing but a red herring. We know the tax was paid, we know the SPL gave a clean bill of health.

To keep answering a question that has been answered clearly about 100 times now is just a distraction – which is the reason it was brought up in the first case and keeps being brought up. I know some of you will feel annoyed seeing it come up and feel the urge to waste time answering it but try to take a deep breadth and ignore it. Then maybe it will just go away.

Agreed – it’s tiresome, and I would love to see Celtic with egg on ther face with this but I just cannae see it. If anything they come out of it rather well.

Of course, if there was a page that dealt exclusively with this issue, any one who questioned it could be directed straight to it rather than clogging up the comments with the same old crap articulated again and again at carying degrees of articulacy.

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Doon the slopePosted on11:56 am - Sep 15, 2012


monsieurbunny

I am not sure whether the Celtic EBT issue is serving merely as a ‘distraction.’

I wondered out loud on here two weeks ago about what Sevco would do to keep themselves in the headlines once the tranfer window closed. It would appear we now have our answer.

Green lashing out at all and sundry.
Alistair Johnston’s verbal gymnastics.
McCoist’s speech from his ward in the Home for the Bewildered.

Their punishment? Here’s your licence.

The MSM have dutifully copied and pasted all three without the slightest question or word of criticism. All three have been ripped apart on here, despite the trolling.

They are in the 4th tier of Scottish football, skint, detested, orphaned, yet still managing to control what is, or is not, written in the MSM in Scotland.

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twopanda bearsPosted on12:00 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Clearly the MSM EBT hullaballoo [aka undisclosed payments against SFA/SPL/UEFA/FIFA rules] that kicked off last Monday and regurgitated in this morning’s rags is maintaining the false CG agenda.

Would recommend to newcomers to read “Digging the Hole Ever Deeper” by RTC reblogged by TSFM 10 August – http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/digging-the-hole-ever-deeper/

The facts are clear.

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MikecPosted on12:05 pm - Sep 15, 2012


EBTs = legal, so long as they have been applied correctly HMRC issue.
Dual contracts = legal in footballing terms so long as they have been correctly registered with the SPL – Footballing issue
NOW COMPARE

Club 1
EBT used to pay a player a termination payment – legal ? Club 1 not certain and consult HMRC pay due tax on payment . HMRC happy. END OF

Dual Contract used ? – investigated by SPL they find no case to answer. SPL happy END OF

Club 2
EBT alledged payment to numerous members of staff – legal ? HMRC do not believe so and issues an assessment for several £m. Club 2 refuses to pay and appeals the decision – result of appeal awaited. Currently HMRC NOT happy. FISCAL MATTER

Dual Contracts used ? Initial investigation confirms a prima facia case to answer SPL convenes an independent panel of eminent legal professionals to investigate . Club 2 have now gone out of business due to the legal entity being put into administration/ liquidation. Newco and Oldco refuse to co-operate with panel although the club licence to play football is now held in Newco. Currently SPL NOT happy. FOOTBALLING MATTER

Now the above does not seem to be difficult to understand so why is it that so many people cannot get their heads round this ?
Is there another agenda ?

Now Mr.C. Green, Mr. A.McCoist and most of the media can you please stop giving false information to your many supporters unless YOU HAVE ANOTHER AGENDA.

For the sake of transparency, which you are all very fond of, can you let the rest of into your secret ? – round pegs, square circles and aprons come to mind – yes ?

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on12:06 pm - Sep 15, 2012


smallteaser says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:34

For what it’s worth,though,I was told yesterday that they are already on the case and are looking at the “phoenix,same name” scenario.
Time will tell.
=============================================================
According to the BBC website yesterday the money from the Euros would go to pay part of the money owed to BDO, I asked yesterday what this was for.
_____________________________________________________________________________
I don’t know why any money should be owed to BDO at this time as the have not yet been formally appointed.
I assume you can charge for work carried out before being appointed.D&P are charging £42k for “pre-administration” costs.
I don’t know the law wrt insolvency.Someone posted that charging like this was wrong.I defer to them.

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FIFAPosted on12:12 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Hi
You are not going to believe this ,I have taken 24hrs to rest up and think this over ,and it wont go away ,on the drive home yesterday,I pulled into a layby to stretch my legs and have a snack ,as I was standing there facing the car snacking away a voice came from behind ,hey buddy do you have an apple per chance ,as I turned around there was this big white horse standing looking over the fence ,I looked side to side and behind it but nothing,then the Big White Horse said hey it was me that spoke ,do you have an apple or not ,speechless I went into my bag and gave the horse an apple ,thanks he said ,by the way the names Ed as he introduced himself ,I stuttered and stammered but was able to introduce myself to Ed,as we spoke the conversation got round to work and Ed told me that he was a retired police horse and used to work Hampden,Celtic Park and Ibrox on match days and used to hear some very interesting conversation’s in the various car parks,anyway he said a guy calling himself RTC used to visit Ed at various grounds and bring him apples and Ed would pass on what he heard over the while ,but Ed retired at the end of last season and had not seen RTC to tell him ,anyway he said his big buddy Dobbin has took over from him and can also talk and for a few apples a week will update on any stories he picks up on ,I am off to fruit shop to stock up for Dobbin and will keep you all posted ,what ,well if Charlie and Sally can take the piss.

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AuchinstarryPosted on12:20 pm - Sep 15, 2012


The Invisible Line @07-59am

Excellent Post. Further, In the interests of Transparency, Ally if your sober today, How much did YOU earn from EBTs? Have you paid them back? Did you realise at the time they were Illegal? How much did the Great Waldo earn from them? Were you aware of ANY of the laws, both civil and Footballing laws being broken by the Directors of your former club? Why did Souness receive an EBT payment Years after leaving the former club?
All in the interests of Transparency you understand.

Spanner, there is an old saying. ” Trying to reason with the unreasonable, is like administering medicine to the Deceased “. Fudd.

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bect67Posted on12:24 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Fat Sally and the MSM seem to be getting most of us ‘hot under the collar’ with their nonesense but, as belief that the truth will prevail (FTT decision has been made) has always been the strength of RTC/TSFM blogs, how about a light hearted digression – taken from Four Four Two magazine for October:-

“A 46- year old plumber … is crossing the Old Firm divide to support Celtic this season – for the good of his own club … Several local business men got involved and a five-figure sum was pledged”

His face has (understandably) been obscured from the article and he’s glad that “although I have to attend every home league game, I don’t need to go to away games or cup matches … people can snigger, but we’ll see who’s laughing when Rangers (!?) are cashing a fat cheque”.

Honestly, where do you start with that one?

Money down the drain?

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Jimmy Bones (@JimmyBo90672977)Posted on12:58 pm - Sep 15, 2012


I managed to buy a copy of “Downfall” @ Waterstones yesterday. On pp76, on the day of administration there is a statement – “Hector wants admin to remain in place until the FTTT delivers the death blow…..”.

Does this explain the apparent delays in lots of the ongoing processes – notably in BDO starting work on the actual liquidation ? If so, can I ask how Hector is able to apply such influence ?

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AngusPosted on1:05 pm - Sep 15, 2012


On a side note, perhaps McCoist and his pack of bears are doing everyone a favour by shining a light on the use of EBTs and when payments from them are/are not legal and within the rules.

This means there should be no confusion when rulings are made by both the FTTT and the SPL in their investigations into EBTs and how payments from them square with the rulebook.

However, I believe that however clear-cut the reasoning for these forthcoming decisions (and let’s face it – is there anyone on the planet that expects RFC(IA) to get away with it?), the sub-species “homo ursinus” will only see that the rules have been applied differently and unfairly to them.

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AngusPosted on1:07 pm - Sep 15, 2012


bobbyevans says:
September 15, 2012 at 12:24

“A 46- year old plumber …
——–

Not even an original idea. The lad Aidan Smith from the Hootsmon, a thoroughbred Hibee, spent a year supporting Hearts recently. He wrote a book about it I believe, though I only read some of his humourous reminisces in the paper myself.

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AngusPosted on1:10 pm - Sep 15, 2012


FIFA says:
September 15, 2012 at 12:12
i
You are not going to believe this …
——
RTC has been paying police horses with apples for inside info, then?

I knew it.

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AngusPosted on1:11 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Ha!

Hat-trick of posts to me. 🙂

Going for four in a row here …

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Ordinary FanPosted on1:15 pm - Sep 15, 2012


If the MSM cannot grasp that there are zero similarities between Celtic’s use of an EBT and RFC’s use of EBT’s, except the 3 letters EBT, than why not ask someone?
Although it is obviously miraculous that NOT ONE journalist in Scotland has the intelligence to understand something so simple, if they really don’t understand, and it is not a case of the usual suspects muddying the waters and the rest being too terrified to upset the violent mob, why not speak to someone who would know?
After all this time, after all these months of this saga, NOT ONE journalist has a clue what is going on with regards the EBT use at RFC? How is that humanly possible?

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ollielogiePosted on1:16 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Compare and contrast the comments from Sir Alex Ferguson and Brendan Rodgers about the tasteless chanting of Manchester United and Liverpool fans with the almost complete silence from TRFC management team and the MSM about said chanting in assorted Scottish stadia.

Rodgers was more direct than Ferguson ” I speak as a human being and I don’t ever like to hear anything like that, whatever club it is, that associates with other people’s tragedies and death. Unfortunately, you have a very small percentage of idiots at any club who will always try to smear another clubs reputation”

Excellent leadership from both managers, especially Rodgers and reported on front page of BBC sport pages.

Unfortunately, our small percentage of idiots are in the dugout and directors box with a much larger body of idiots behind and beside them in the stands raining down abuse and bogitry while the MSM collude.

Is there any Scotiish Journalist with the cojones to tell this story?

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wolfmanPosted on1:25 pm - Sep 15, 2012


ESPN advert at half time!…….”after Ranger’s Relegation”????…….WTF?

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smallteaserPosted on1:35 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Palacio67 says:
September 15, 2012 at 10:12

Tina Turner says:
September 15, 2012 at 00:04

Great Post, I would urge all to go back and have a read.
================================================
Seconded, great post

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theoldcoursePosted on1:38 pm - Sep 15, 2012


On the BBC Scotland football gossip page today

“The Ibrox club could be back in Europe next season – if they won the Scottish Cup and the SFA invited them. (Sun)”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/gossip/

Have the Sun overlooked the matter of three years audited accounts and UEFA’s own competition entry requirements.

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WOTTPIPosted on1:41 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Just a wee reminder that the other day on the radio Mr Charles was at pains to point out that EBT’s were not illegal.

It is the administration of them and player registrations that can cause problems.
Celtic have resolved both matters to the satisfaction of the tax and footballing authorities.
Everything is now legal and above board in the same way Charley boy agrees they can be if administered in the correct manner.

Rangers manager and fans should listen to their own CEO!!!

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AgrajagPosted on1:44 pm - Sep 15, 2012


WOTTPI says:
September 15, 2012 at 13:41

Just a wee reminder that the other day on the radio Mr Charles was at pains to point out that EBT’s were not illegal.

It is the administration of them and player registrations that can cause problems.

==========================

The “administration” myth again.

How they were administered is irrelevant. The payments were contractual and therefore not appropriate to an EBT. How they were administered does not change that.

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theoldcoursePosted on1:52 pm - Sep 15, 2012


The way I see it either payments were contractual and registered with SPL and SFA therefore no case to answer on that front but FTT(T) will go against them (not that that should matter to SEVCO).

On the other hand payments were made outside contract so FTT(T) will be in favour of Oldco but SPL will have to consider what actions to take in respect of payments outside of registered contract.

Is that it in a nutshell?

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CreepylurkerPosted on2:21 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Wow! What a really uncompetitive league the spl has become without rangers in it. Well done st. Johnstone, from a tic fan.

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The Mighty Flash TMFPosted on2:41 pm - Sep 15, 2012


I have to agree with creepylurker, got what we deserved, hope we up the tempo for the CL game.

Re SFA inviting wowgers into Europe, surely even they would not have the brass neck to do that. Surely.

ND SR must all be gone by the end of the season.

OR could Green have used reverse psychology in naming them in one of his lastest outbursts to make sure they stayed in place? Ensuring the invite would be on the way.

And no mention of CO when namng and shaming mmmmmmmm.

They’ll probably get knocked out of the cup anyway like the last time they banked on a cup (albeit European) run to save them.

Sally will see to that (it’ll be his last game as manger).

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scottcPosted on2:55 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Re SFA inviting wowgers into Europe, surely even they would not have the brass neck to do that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It’s not for the SFA ton invite The Rangers into Europe. They might put them forward as representatives but they don’t qualify under UEFA rules so why would the SFA waste a place? Not going to happen. No matter what The Sun says

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tomahawk kidPosted on3:18 pm - Sep 15, 2012


Went into the cafe this morning and ordered an Ebt instead of a Blt.
Getting a wee bit overkill on here with the same nonsense being regurgitated.

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