Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.
For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.
The relevant rules are as follows:
Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.
Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.
Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.
Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.
Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.
“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
…
“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.
…
“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission? Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all? No. They did absolutely nothing.
“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.
“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.
“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.
…
“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.
“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.
…
“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?
“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.
…
“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.
“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.
“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.
“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”
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Have a read through these edited highlights once again…
The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.
——————————————————
Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.
If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.
I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.
As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!
I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.
Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.
What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-
“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs. As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”
What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…
No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.
As I said, it is brilliant!
He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!
And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!
However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?
Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?
As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!
Posted by Paul McConville
jockybhoy says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:37
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More a Cuckfield Bhoy myself, George went downhill when it got Wetherspooned!
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I know it too well because it was at one time the “meeting place” for all the young ladies from Forest School…better not go any further!
Your comment re Weatherspoon is noted and agreed…now on my personal “Bhoycott” list!
I cut and paste a comment from todays Herald under the Roger Mitchell story.
Methinks the boy gets it but just can’t bring himself to publicly admit it that his old club is dead and has cheated.
However what he says from a Rangers fans point of view with regards to looking forward is perhaps the most sensible thing I have heard for a while albeit slightly spoiled by the counter conspiracy paragraph at the end.
Of course wee sorry would be nice but at least it is an honest view from a football fan hoping the club he now supports will succeed in the future.
“As a Rangers fan what if we say The Rangers Football Club plc is dead and died with 54 titles 5 of which might be stripped. On the other hand The Rangers Football Club Ltd has no titles or cups and are starting 100% fresh. Does it matter? It is a new club that gets 50000 supporters, is debt free, has historic and emotional links with The Rangers Football Club plc and has taken over the assets of that company. In 3 years we will be thrashing the dross that is the SPL and winning the 1st of many new SPL titles. The future is bright and that is what the fans of the dross hate so much, let them make irrelevant points about the past, the past is the past and the SPL can’t take away the celebrations of that time.
None of this is to concede that The Rangers Football Club plc did cheat but as the investigation is a farce anyway and the decision already ordered by Peter Lawell who cares what they say or do.”
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:06
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Just because you’re paranoid…… says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:55
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longtimelurker says:
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I know what Fergus said mate and I knew that when i bought some of his shares and I’m still a MUG for buying them because not one brown penny went to Celtic but I knew what I was doing and I have regretted it ever since.
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The argument regards what Fergus took and when does the round every now and again. For my own part, I can comment as follows (for what its worth):
Long before Fergus succeeded in the takeover, adverts were carried in the Sunday Mail asking for potential subscribers to a Celtic Share issue. The adverts asked you to send £1 to a PO Box to receive an info pack. This was issued by a Company called Firstgreen. Fergus was behind Firstgreen.
The info pack contained Fergus’ 5 pledges:
opening up a share issue for fans (25%), with the proceeds being invested directly into the club
Buiding a new stadium
Deliver the League Title
Placing the club on a firm financial footing
and Finally, walk away after 5 years, becoming a minority shareholder.
The first Share issue of 25% was initially oversubscribed. The proceeds from that 25% went straight to the Club.
At that point Fergus announced that he was willing to further dilute his ownership and release further shares. However, he did state that these were his shares and that by selling them, he would begin recouping his investment (though much earlier than anticipated). Those who had missed out on the initial allocation were then offered some of Fergus’ shares. The difference was made clear at the time of the second offering.
So, both statements are true, Initial investors cash went to the club, as promised. Those who had wished to invest as part of that share issue, but were not lucky enough were given a second chance, but were informed that they were buying Fergus’ shares and thus the money for these shares would go to Fergus. This may have caused the confusion nearly twenty years down the line.
The investment in the Club at the time was an intangible, an emotional decision but one that stopped Celtic going the way of Airdrie, Clydebank or Gretna. To think that it was done by the fans, well what price can you put on that.
As an aside, i still have the Firstgreen info pack. With it came an A4 artist’s impression of Celtic Park, post rebuild. The only difference to that as built today is that the original drawing showed the Main Stand as rebuilt as two tier.
Fergus still has several seats in the investor’s section, he gives them out to charity functions. 7
I suppose that the one thing that the Celtic Support were lucky with was that in Fergus they had openness, honesty and integrity, just a pity that he was boo’ed.
When I heard Mr Charles state that the SPL were a Mickey Mouse organisation yesterday I smiled.
Disney (aka the Mickey Mouse Organisation) turnover in the year to October 2011 was $40.9 Billion Dollars.
Bigger than many countries and Major League Organisation Mr Charles.
Maybe even as big as some of Mr Charles’ as yet unnamed billionaire backers.
WOTTPI..Brenda…
No chance !! the majority of those MSM Slugs are fully complicit & are in too deep regarding their sustained media illusion…there is no way out for them.The informed no longer buy them the remainder (apart from some 🙂 are quickly realising & evaporating/falling circulation figures are testimony to that..next time have a glance over at the piles of both the main red tops..on the rack in your newsagent shop,supermarket etc..still available & unsold..?
Times are indeed a changin…
BBC Sportsound
Whomsoever within that repressively stifling environment of entasked disengagement the likes of Jabba his mundane ruminations upon the armageddonist magentist purple cloud of Sevco-fatalistico fantasy.
They once Lived, They then Died…They are No MORE.
That’s Oldco Rangers Folks…Don’t forget to leave your teeth and your property titles in a malted glass of drug store soda syphoned off post historical Sevco entitlement.
michael b says:
September 12, 2012 at 18:20
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Re Fergus being booed I was at the match mate and a lot of the booing was down to supporters trying to drown out the Fergus booers which the press seized on as Fergus was booed by the support at the championship flag un-veiling.
Yes there were some supporters who did indeed boo him but Fergus McCann did himself no favours with large sections of the support.
For me his refusal to back the team and stop the NIAR in favour of spending the money in the stadium was a big mistake plus of course the ‘sacking’ of WTT three days after wining the title to stop the ten was, well completely mental.
Of course I absolutely understand why he did those things but that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow even after all of this time.
Having said all of that I do believe that the stadium should be named after him and IMO he is one of the five most important people ever at Celtic.
Seems this from Alex Thomson, anyone confirm?
J”uninho and Celtic: I understand the EBT money paid he got wasn’t declared to SPL as per SFA rule 12.3. So why ‘no case to answer’ ?”
Bella Caledonia…………..Online Media…..latest story…. Nothing Learned ?
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/09/12/theyve-learned-nothing/
Nothing to see her folks – move along now.
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/189920-celtic-cleared-by-spl-over-use-of-ebt-scheme-to-pay-player-juninho/
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
Much as I like the extension of unpaid tax to ebts that you make, the fact that Rangers had appealed the tax on ebts meant that at the time the UEFA licence was being granted in April 2011 the tax due on ebts was not deemed unpaid simply by dint of it being under appeal. The licence rules allowed tax under appeal to be ignored. Only when it becomes free of appeal will it count as unpaid under the FFP rules.
Howevah ….. the situation regarding the tax due from the Discount ? Scheme (the wee tax case that crept from £1.9M up to £4.? m (i’m going from memory) the unpaid tax that had the Sherrif Officers calling in August 2011, well the situation regarding that is as unclear now as it was in October 2011
(see http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=787:did-the-sfa-deny-celtic-a-place-in-the-champions-league&catid=47:season-2011-2012&Itemid=83 )
for the exact rules and what the SFA said about it.
What AJ has revealed is that the SFA did ask Rangers about their tax affairs so they had concerns. The question is did the SFA ask about the wee tax case bill as well as the EBT tax. what did Rangers tell them and was what Rangers told the SFA sufficient to allow the licence to be granted in April/May with no subsequent questions being asked in key reporting dates on unpaid tax in June and September 2011?
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=856:in-whom-do-we-trust&catid=47:season-2011-2012&Itemid=83
Sooner or later we will learn the truth about the granting of the UEFA licence in 2011, especially if the canaries continue to sing.
PS A wee reminder to Mr Charles for one of the reason on why it has taken so long to investigate EBT matters at Ibrox
“The SPL Board heard a report from its solicitors following the investigation into payments to, or for the benefit of, players allegedly made by Rangers FC outside of contract.
The delay in concluding the investigation was caused by an initial lack of co-operation from Rangers FC.”
Auldheid
I too am convinced the Uefa licence for 2011 should not have been granted .I hope the truth will out also .
The spl should have sanctioned Ragers regarding the WTC long ago but IMO they just hoped it would all blow over ,more evidence of the complete and utter blind loyalty shown to establishment club .
Auldheid
My point was they used the ebts illegally to avoid declaring/paying social taxes
Therefore whilst no tax was due or under appeal they employed means to avoid it
Those means were wrong and they knew it
So they owed social taxes = no uefa license entitlement
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 18:52
‘Seems this from Alex Thomson, anyone confirm?
“J”uninho and Celtic: I understand the EBT money paid he got wasn’t declared to SPL as per SFA rule 12.3. So why ‘no case to answer’ ?”
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‘alex thomson @alextomo
‘SPL says no evidence of any rule breach over Celtic’s use of an EBT with an un-named player. ‘
And i didnt just mean 2011 which was known and no longer under appeal – they accepted it was due
WOTTPI says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:33
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
Thats the point isn’t it.
At no time in this sorry tale have I ever heard anything eminating from Ibrox that leads me to believe they are not guility of the two charges 1) Mismanagement of the EBT scheme …
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Improperly using a system to evade millions of pounds of tax is not mismanagement, it is evasion. Rangers evaded tax, the whole mismanagement / administrative error excuse is a myth.
There was never any doubt that the payments were not discretionary, therefore they were not suitable for this scheme. Everything subsequent to that is obfuscation, misdirection and propaganda.
Elasticity of Demand.
Too taught and I’m off…its too fraught, the fall.
Too Slack.
I’m in. It’s too feckin’ easy. I’m bouncing on Tims.
Sevco beware…it will rebound.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 19:33
I get that and I also accept the principle at play, but this is a mob who are scrupulous when it comes to interpreting the rules to their taste and the ebt tax, under the UEFA FFP rules is not yet an overdue payable as defined in the rules.
The unpaid VAT last season thatsaw them put in administration would have been an overdue payable to tax authorities and to be honest I am not sure what made them ineligible for UEFA competition first this season.
Overdue tax , going concern/no audited accounts, or being a new club. I think it was probably neck and neck between no audited accounts and the overdue tax in terms of timing.
Auldheid says:
I am not sure what made them ineligible for UEFA competition first this season
super ally??
Ally’s been awfy quiet 🙂 is he holed up with bomber and sardine. Lol
Any truth to this?
http://coplandroad.org/#505629
paul martin says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:08
🙂 😉 🙂
Ranchofranco says:
September 12, 2012 at 19:52
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Elasticity of Demand.
Too taught and I’m off…its too fraught, the fall.
Too Slack.
I’m in. It’s too feckin’ easy. I’m bouncing on Tims.
Sevco beware…it will rebound.
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Rancho…funny it may seem but I simply cannot find these “definitions” in my basic first year Economics textbooks by Samuelson & Lipsey…but then again, we all know what economists are like…don’t we?
Mr Green has every right to make his comments and feelings known.
…….and so, now the authorities should take these comments and throw every rule in the book at him, run him swiftly out of town, strip and be done- fit and proper person my auntie Fannie !
Should they fail to do so and toute suite, then this Chamberlain -like appeasement will brings down the entire basis on which football is run in this country and ALL clubs will be seen to be complicit in its downfall….when appeasement on this scale occurs, awful things happen
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:28
Any truth to this?
http://coplandroad.org/#505629
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If you like badly written one-sided facetious propaganda, going for form rather than substance, then Mr Graham is a decent read.
He says nothing of any use or insight rather well.
Regarding AJ’s statement…………….another WOW! These peepil just can’t help themselves!
The sense of entitlement is writ large for all to see…so it goes like this…..
‘Yes we signed loads of players and paid them through a dodgy tax evading scheme…but hey had we known it was dodgy we would have paid them properly…..we’re Rangers, we arra peepil….the rules are for all you schmucs, not us! Don’t quote rules to us we are the biggest and most successfulest club in the world’
Not as though they collapsed into liquidation with 10’s of millions of debts or anything is it? Is AJ wanting to calculate the difference and put it with the other creditors and say no more about it?
Unbelievable!
Tick tock….
(have not said that for a while ;))
With regard to various innuendo’s emanating from Mister Green and his brigade I find it very helpful to remember these words from the late Christopher Hitchens:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Arabest says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:51
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Regarding AJ’s statement…………….another WOW! These peepil just can’t help themselves!
The sense of entitlement is writ large for all to see…so it goes like this…..
‘Yes we signed loads of players and paid them through a dodgy tax evading scheme…but hey had we known it was dodgy we would have paid them properly…..we’re Rangers, we arra peepil….the rules are for all you schmucs, not us! Don’t quote rules to us we are the biggest and most successfulest club in the world’
Not as though they collapsed into liquidation with 10′s of millions of debts or anything is it? Is AJ wanting to calculate the difference and put it with the other creditors and say no more about it?
Unbelievable!
Tick tock….
(have not said that for a while )
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Arabest…you do of course mean “100’s of millions of debts”… don’t you?
But then again, what is a factor of 10 to the “most successful club in the world”….a mere decimal point I presume?
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:47
You may not like it, you may find it one-sided propaganda, fair enough.
But this is the Scottish Football Monitor and would surely want to attract fans from all clubs, even Rangers. But he is giving reasons why this might be a problem.
Is it a problem?
I look back at all the posts on this page and all are about Rangers and one about the Hillsborough verdict, which is off topic here.
So, I ask again, should this blog be renamed, or re- designed, or what?
He does bring up something that I find astonishing, two pieces from newspapers discussing wrongdoings by Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers.
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
Something not right somewhere.
I tuned in last night to watch Scotland’s latest attempt to qualify for a major tournament and at the end of the match I was left wondering why I bothered.
Is it just me or does the style of football we play belong in an era 30 years ago; simple passes that have no penetration, not one player willing to get past the first man and drive at the opposition defence, ineffectual movement often taking players away from goal and into areas where they will hurt no one, woeful ball control, and if there actually are any tactics they are virtually impossible to detect. This is before we even get to the subject of players playing being played out of position.
We have watched other national teams develop players who pass and move and who will play a pass into the path of a moving player. How many times in Scottish football do you see a pass played which causes the player to stop or check back to get it?
These are the fundamentals of the game and if you struggle there then it is not going to improve the further you go on.
Now it would be easy to blame the players in all of this and indeed they must carry a lot of the blame but the real problem we have in Scotland is not just a playing style of 30 years ago but an overall organisation which belongs to a time even further back. The SFA is an utter shambles.
It is riddled with a committee structure which beggars belief. It is accountable to nobody and most fans perceive decisions are taken on a “nod and a wink” basis. Cronyism doesn’t run, it practically gallops, within this organisation; if your face fits then you’re in and if it doesn’t then there is no way you will go anywhere. Some referees have made reference to this recently.
The SFA could interview any group of managers but ultimately will go for either the cheapest option or it will go for the most expensive only to find one of its many sub-committees undermine him at every turn.
I posted a few nights ago that it was an organisation that long ago lost the moral authority to govern our game. It appears incapable of changing the fortunes of our national team as it seems intent to protect itself and its own little fiefdom.
A few years ago I heard a story regarding the French Football Federation; after failing to qualify for the 1990 World Cup, ironically put out by Scotland, they had a massive inquest. The result was the creation of a new setup, investment in a national academy, and as a result France have won a World Cup, a European Championship, and reached a further World Cup final.
Contrast this with Scotland; when we failed to qualify for the USA in 1994 we held a think tank headed by Jupp Hinkels the former Dutch coach. It cost a fortune and I’ve yet to hear of anything that came from it. Henry McLeish has recently conducted an investigation into the “way forward” for our national sport. That has been mired in self protectionism, cronyism, and mistrust between our plethoras of ruling organisations since then.
Now I’m not for a minute saying that Scotland could ever win a major footballing honour because I have always believed that simply qualifying for a major tournament was our final. I never thought that when we opened the World Cup finals in France, with Brazil, fourteen years ago that we, as a nation would not qualify again for nearly two decades. This is what it will be by the time the next tournament after Brazil occurs. I watched the Wales Belgium game on Friday night in the pub and, while I was a bit tipsy, I quickly came to the conclusion before Scotland had kicked a ball that we would be lucky to finish fourth.
I believe that the first three places will be between Croatia, Serbia, and Belgium with Wales or Scotland finishing fourth. After last nights happenings I think Macadonia will be in with a shout of fourth.
posmill says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:59
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With regard to various innuendo’s emanating from Mister Green and his brigade I find it very helpful to remember these words from the late Christopher Hitchens:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
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Posmill…as I said on so many occasions….”…every day a school day…!”
Many thanks.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:47
You may not like it, you may find it one-sided propaganda, fair enough.
———————————————–
I didn’t say I didn’t like it, quite the reverse I really appreciate the quality of the writing.
He manages to use a lot of words really well whilst adding little or nothing to the debate.
Spin like that is a skill, if he doesn’t already earn a living doing it then he should give it serious consideration.
He is also ironically doing the Rangers support no good whatsoever. This type of propaganda helped David Murray do what he did. It helped Craig Whyte do what he did. It is helping Charles Green do what he is doing.
So long as the Rangers support read Mr Graham’s work and follow it then they will continue to ignore the real issues. He will feed their sense of persecution and unite them against those who they would be better listening to, and get them behind those who are actually harming them.
His choice to do it, your choice to follow him.
So mote it be.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
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He does bring up something that I find astonishing, two pieces from newspapers discussing wrongdoings by Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers.
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
Something not right somewhere.
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Naw yer man CG is not right mate in the head that is. This is the guy who compiled a list of rangers’ enemies and then subsequently pulled the blog after he was threatened by the wife of a Celtic bar owner, the man is at best delusional.
Re Paul McC, yes he’s had problems with his own career and he’s explained those problems in detail on his blog. Paul has never hidden the fact but I’m sure he will defend himself when he reads this.
Has the commission made a rod for its own back by announcing dates, what happens if no ftt verdict is known by the time they sit, will they pre-empt any verdict by the ftt, what would the resulting outcome be if an eventually delivered ftt verdict were to fly in the face of any commission ruling.
spanner says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:12
Has the commission made a rod for its own back by announcing dates, what happens if no ftt verdict is known by the time they sit, will they pre-empt any verdict by the ftt, what would the resulting outcome be if an eventually delivered ftt verdict were to fly in the face of any commission ruling.
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The people on that panel will rule based on the evidence presented to them.
The decision on an appeal into whether or not Rangers are due to pay the tax assessments HMRC issued them is largely irrelevant.
The FTT could rule that no tax is due, it would not follow that Rangers declared the payments to the SPL properly.
The bottom line is that in order to commit the fraud Rangers were pretty much obliged not to declare the additional payments to players to the SPL. However whether that led to tax being due doesn’t really change anything. If they made the payments they made the payments.
thank you essex, but if this was school I would have gotten marks off for the misplaced apostrophe in “innuendo’s” (sic) 🙂
CG’s rangers enemies list
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11526246&t=8700235
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
===========
He is capable of doing that himself but if it was me I would
“ draw a large circle around a universe of reference points that should be considered in assessing the magnitude of the allegations ”
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:11
———————————————————————–
Oh, that’s all right then, it’s Paul McConville after all.
Nothing to see here, move on.
Lets get back to discussing the problems in Scottish Football (especially Rangers, especially them).
Grahamisms
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11614818&t=8707052
People here are mentioning the Celtic flotation under Fergus McCann. The imminent Rangers launch is taking place in a completely different financial world. In 1994 the Celtic tiger was roaring and maqny “ordinary” Celtic fans, particularly in Ireland had access to thousands of pounds (and punts or Euro obviously) to throw at their club.
Green cannot hope to collect anythnig like the numbers that were bandied around from the sovvy ring brigade. He needs the bulk of his invesors to come from all around the world as corporate entities. To schieve this I think he needs to be able to offer “thw world record holding League titles” to interest them.
He will make some profit I’m sure, but whether it is enough to sustain the club for long….
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 19:41
Improperly using a system to evade millions of pounds of tax is not mismanagement, it is evasion. Rangers evaded tax, the whole mismanagement / administrative error excuse is a myth.
There was never any doubt that the payments were not discretionary, therefore they were not suitable for this scheme. Everything subsequent to that is obfuscation, misdirection and propaganda.
————————————————————————————————————————
Spot on.
I worked ‘offshore’ for two Big 4 accountancy firms, and if the Rangers EBT had come in as a new business proposal, it would never have got beyond the due diligence stage.
Was it ever revealed who did administer the scheme? I can only assume it was some small local outfit.
The last EBT our office administered was closed in 05 or 06, as it was known then that the Revenue were on to them.
This was never anything more than an offshore slush fund.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
You make an excellent point J. By the same token it’s always bothered me that the Allied forces during World War II were so singularly focussed on eradicating Fascism when there were plenty of other problems in the world. It’s like they were obsessed!
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:25
Oh, that’s all right then, it’s Paul McConville after all.
Nothing to see here, move on.
Lets get back to discussing the problems in Scottish Football (especially Rangers, especially them).
============================
A blog is a web log.
It consists of articles, with people then commenting on those articles. Generally it is one blogger with other people making their comments. However in this instance the whole thing is based on “guest bloggers” well it seems that way to me.
If you feel there is an issue you wish to put forward some thoughts on, or even opinions, then why not write it and ask the people here to publish it. I’m sure others will then give their opinions and thoughts on your topic.
At the very least this may test your hypothesis that this is purely an anti Rangers blog and does not relate to Scottish football in general.
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:11
0 1 i
Rate This
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
1 0 Rate This
He does bring up something that I find astonishing, two pieces from newspapers discussing wrongdoings by Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers.
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
Something not right somewhere.
****************************************************************************************************************
Naw yer man CG is not right mate in the head that is. This is the guy who compiled a list of rangers’ enemies and then subsequently pulled the blog after he was threatened by the wife of a Celtic bar owner, the man is at best delusional.
Re Paul McC, yes he’s had problems with his own career and he’s explained those problems in detail on his blog. Paul has never hidden the fact but I’m sure he will defend himself when he reads this.
==================================================================
Longtimelurker…without wishing to stoke up any fires, may I ask how many of us, in our private or personal lives, would stand “lilly white” in front of our accusers.
I have indeed read the internet posts re Mr McConville and bearing in mind my own professional failings and peccadillos, which have never been exposed on the interweb, my first reaction is one of…”there but for the grace of God go I….”
What this blog must not detract from is, granted in isolation, a legal mind which has analysed and commented upon, without fear or favour, upon the misdeeds of a whole generation of football club proprietors and directors, who would much rather that their nefarious deeds had not been the subject of such exposure to the public gaze.
That Mr McConville operates under his own name leaves most of us, operating under pseudonyms/nom-de-plumes speaks volumes.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:25
0 0 Rate This
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:11
———————————————————————–
Oh, that’s all right then, it’s Paul McConville after all.
Nothing to see here, move on.
Lets get back to discussing the problems in Scottish Football (especially Rangers, especially them).
***************************************************************************************************************
I’m not here to defend P McC mate I’m sure he’s big enough and daft enough to look after himself but this was been done to death on RTC after another rangers fan (Adam or one of his many guises) threw the same mud and it didn’t stick then.
Go to Paul’s blog and read his explanation.
There is nothing to hide it’s all there.
There’s only one team in Scottish fitbaw that’s ripped off every single one of us to the tune of £135million is it any wonder that people on here are ‘interested’ in that now defunct team?
Chris Graham – a typical example of a younger Sevco fan – not very bright
and preaching to his peers and not true older fans of the club. Am I wrong?
Ranchofranco says:
September 12, 2012 at 18:35
Whomsoever within that repressively stifling environment of entasked disengagement the likes of Jabba his mundane ruminations upon the armageddonist magentist purple cloud of Sevco-fatalistico fantasy.
—-
Erm … nope. I read that sentence (I assume it’s supposed to be a sentence) over and over, and couldn’t get it to make any sense at all.
J Maclure:
Joseph Stalin said Adolf Hitler was a bad guy. It didn’t mean Mr Stalin had to be a good guy himself to say that.
Simlarly, whether Mr McConville has anything dodgy about him at all is entirely irrelevant, and another case of the beloved “whataboutery”.
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:18
My understanding which could be wrong is that payments would have to be contractual as opposed to discretionary, if the ftt were to find for no liability, it is difficult to see how the commission could disagree.
I hope that I have the guts to put this on my own blog for the entire world to see if I ever, God forbid, am in a similar position.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/about/
spanner says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:40
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:18
My understanding which could be wrong is that payments would have to be contractual as opposed to discretionary, if the ftt were to find for no liability, it is difficult to see how the commission could disagree.
=================
The FTT is hearing Rangers appeal. It will hear that, and the case put forward by the respondent (HMRC)
You may have much more information than me, if so I wouldn’t mind reading it. Currently I have no knowledge of the grounds on which the appeal was based. Or on the response by HMRC.
The bottom line however is that the Tribunal are unlikely to be ruling on whether or not the payments were made. I assume (dangerous word) that all parties have agree that. They will be ruling on whether or not tax was due when the payments were made. (Whether or not “loans” from the sub-trust were repayable or not is another non argument, but that’s not important right now).
I don’t see how that helps the panel one way or the other. They are determining whether all payments made to players were declared properly to the SPL. If there were side letters (contracts) that will be part of the evidence. However I don’t think the alleged offences stands or falls on that evidence alone.
justshatered says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:02
‘Is it just me or does the style of football we play belong in an era 30 years ago; simple passes that have no penetration, not one player willing to get past the first man and drive at the opposition defence, ineffectual movement often taking players away from goal and into areas where they will hurt no one, woeful ball control, and if there actually are any tactics they are virtually impossible to detect. This is before we even get to the subject of players playing being played out of position.’
Last night and Saturday Scotland played and looked like a team that had fear and negativity instilled into them by the management team. That said, the paragraph above descibes their play to perfection.
Levein should have realised that this was his best chance in the section to secure a solid base with 6 points from 2 home games. Whatever our failings these games were winnable.
To bring Kenny Millar , a past great servant, from Canadian football where he has so far performed miserably was misguided in the extreme..
To play Gary Caldwell, our best central defender in midfield was criminal.
We are not the best team in the group, but we are a lot better than we showed last night.
Any chance Scotland have of qualifying is gone.
Morale in the camp has been destroyed, Levein has lost the support from the terraces.
He has been another disastrous appointment.
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:18
CG’s rangers enemies list
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11526246&t=8700235
——————————–
He really has only one enemy – the TRUTH.
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:50
I believe the rule 22 so to speak, is that if found to be no liability, then no taxable payments were sanctionable or made, other than those accounted for all would be in order as defended.
Good Evening,
Let us while away the hours with three daft games. Games which we can start but not necessarily finish you understand….. and I stress that they are played purely for our amusement.
All three games revolve around the following statement from AJ yesterday:
“The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc., but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust. The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation.”
OK so let’s play the first game— it’s called the Paper Chase
The above statement was proceeded with the news that prior to issuing a UEFA licence for 2011/2012, The SFA wrote to Rangers, acknowledging their knowledge that there was a tax enquiry ongoing etc etc and so prior to issuing the licence they sought a number of clarifications.
As you can see from what AJ says above ” The Club responded accordingly…”
So Lets chase the paper…..
1. Who wrote the letter on behalf of the SFA?
2. Who replied on behald of Rangers PLC and to whom was the letter addressed?
3. What enclosures were sent with the letter and why was such information not sent in the first instance?
4. Who, from the SFA, then sent out the UEFA licence without further contact?
5 Who was the SFA compliance officer and with whom did he liaise at Ibrox?
6 What report is AJ referring to above? Who wrote it? What did it say? and where is it?
By the way– I believe any creditor would be entitled to ask these questions of Duff & Phelps or indeed the liquidator.
So that is game one
Game two– well that is called Consequences. You remember the child’s game consequences, where you put in a load of different factors and you reach a consequence– well I invite you to conclusde what the consequences are arising from AJ’s statement. Read it carefully now- especially the last sentence.
Remember that AJ is talking about the proceedings that took place prior to the lead up to the issuing of the 2011/2012 UEFA licence– to make things easy and interesting here is a link to the UEFA Licensing process as operated by the SFA– have a look at this because it becomes relevant time and time again. Note the proceedures and checks that have to be gone through.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uefa%20licensing%20process%20sfa&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scottishfa.co.uk%2Fresources%2Fdocuments%2FClubLicensing%2FPartThree-UEFAClubLicensing%2F04%2520The%2520UEFA%2520Club%2520Licensing%2520Process%2520(2).pdf&ei=WPlQUNbmL4es0QXRg4CIDw&usg=AFQjCNE3QhhKSse0PPbeUXR2O-Tla97sRA
However, for our purposes in this discussion note that the information required by the SFA needs to be with them prior to 8th April– so for the 2011 UEFA competitions, you can date the correspondence and reports that AJ refers to above as taking place in March/April 2011.
Ok- if you are with me so far, then note that the Chairman of Rangers PLC is saying that at that date the club gave the SFA documentation and correspondence which must have lead the SFA compliance officers to conclude ” both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation!”
AJ is saying that this was obvious and clear.. and goes on to Rubbish the SFA.
Fine– but here is a question. When did the FTT start?
The reason I ask is that the official line peddled and promoted by MIH or by Rangers PLC to that Tribunal is directly contradictory to the line now peddled by AJ.
Here is David Murray speaking through the Associated Press setting out the position as it was put to the FTT ( as I understand it ):
“Rangers agreed contracts of employment with its players (and staff).
“The EBT scheme involved the contribution of funds into an offshore discretionary trust managed by independent trustees.
“The trustees could and did make loans to individuals carrying interest with scheduled repayment dates.
“There was no contractual or beneficial entitlement to the funds on the part of any individual and the monies paid to EBTs were not “remuneration” in terms of any rules applying to the club.
“Since 2001 when the EBT scheme was introduced, the amounts contributed were disclosed in the audited financial statements of the club. These audited accounts were provided to the SFA and SPL as required.
“As the law stands, it is the right of every tax payer to minimise his tax liability.
Here is Murray again in conversation with Jeff Randell of Sky News.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9cEWV_CPh4
So– AJ says that it was obvious or should have been obvious to the SFA compliance officer that the payments were related to player compensation. David Murray peddles a completely different tune.
So.
What are the Consequences for deliberately misleading or lying to a tribunal or court— because both of them can’t be right– can they?
What are the consequences for trying to deliberately mislead the SFA?
What are the consequences for deliberately not paing tax on payments to players which were linked to player compensation as stated by AJ– especially when the company has gone into insolvent Liquidation?
Presuming that AJ gave evidence to the FTT, did he say the same thing to the FTT as he is now saying in this statement- namely that the payments were obviously linked to Player compensation
What are the consequences of Murray’s statements compared to the Rangers PLC chairman’s statements?
What are the consequences of endangering the very life of a company by running an EBT scheme which the company chairman says is obviously linked to player compensation- especially running up a debt in unpaid tax which clearly cannot be paid by the company as early as the crash of 2008– and remember that Rangers will have been aware of the tax investigation and its potential consequences for a long time before there was any FTT
In other words– when- given AJ’s statement above- did the Directors know- or when did they ought to know that Rangers PLC could be insolvent, and most likely was insolvent going by AJ’s explanation of the payments as given above?
So that is consequences
The last game could perhaps be best described as musical statues.
Statues are of course silent by nature.
If what AJ says above is true, and that all was obvious then why has everyone at the SFA been silent on this issue?
Why has there been no correspondence from the SFA following the letter from Rangers referred to by AJ?
Why has there been no enquiry made of Rangers by the SFA following receipt of that correspondence?
Why if everything was as obvious as AJ says did Campbell Ogilvie not declare a conflict of interest as far back as April 2011– or if he did declare a conflict why was that declaration not made public?
Has Campbell Ogilvie given a statement to his employers that in any way conflicts with the explanation of EBT’s that have been provided publicly by Murray or Johnston? Stewart Regan says that he has made a full disclosure.
Which version of the conflicting stories given by Murray and Johnston does Campbell Ogilvie support and subscribe to?
But of course, it is not only the SFA persona who are silent– because 48 hours after the AJ statement i am not aware of a whole lot of questions being posed by the press in relation to the detail of what Johnston said.
Perhaps that game is called :
The Silence of the Lambs………..
Essex beancounter says: September 12, 2012 at 21:33
…
J Maclure says: September 12, 2012 at 21:01
…Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers…
==================================================================
… may I ask how many of us, in our private or personal lives, would stand “lilly white” in front of our accusers…
That Mr McConville operates under his own name leaves most of us, operating under pseudonyms/nom-de-plumes speaks volumes.
=======================================
Well said EB, (you beat me to it!)
Experience would indicate that only very few individuals would feel comfortable, (justified?), about making the above PMcC observation.
And ‘whataboutery’ doesn’t add anything to the blog either…
Paul McConville, so interested am I in what you have to say on your site, that I must apologize for repeatedly scrolling past the introductory piece about yourself. In the light of some of the posts on here tonight, I corrected that.
INTEGRITY.
Well done.
although the Roger Mitchell article in The Herald today was wonderful – wee Richard Wilson in The herald was a continuing disaster. he picks all his favourite quotes from Johnston but doesn’t used the one from Johnston that says Craig Whyte period was ‘financial doping’. Did you miss that bit Richard?
on the posts yesterday from STV showing what each club in Scotland would get from their players playing in qualifying matches and EURO2012 – the figure named for Rangers was for Rangers(ia) – i.e. the creditors. Not you Mr Green. Not The Rangers. you do understand that don’t you? that money is for the creditors pot – don’t go banking it now will you? that would be a crime? are you reading this Duff & Phelps & BDO? Mr Green that money is due to the creditors pot
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
=========
So is it your view that only perfect people can comment on the doings of RFC? Which in effect, of course, closes down all debate, because I’m not perfect myself, and I haven’t met anyone else who I would consider perfect in 60+ years of trying to find one.
Despite my manifest imperfections, my deviations from the true straight path, my sins both mortal and venial, I still consider that I am entitled to express an opinion on all and any matters that interest me.
That includes the disgrace that is RFC, and the way that club has poisoned the well of Scottish football, the well that we all have to drink from. You see the cunning link from RFC to Scottish football in general? Scottish football is what this forum is all about, but unfortunately that topic cannot, at present, be decoupled from events at Ibrox. I can only dream of the day when that is no longer so.
Now my opinions might be a load of cr*p, no doubt many think so, and they may well be right. But if my opinions are cr*p, then tell me why, attack my opinions, not something I might have done in a totally different context. If P McC has got it wrong in his analysis, then let’s have a proper and detailed rebuttal of the points he makes.
The same for me of course. Attack my opinions if you like, but not by reference to that time (ok, more than one time) that I got blootered and made an erse of myself- that just isn’t relevant to the quality of my arguments expressed here.
This sort of finger-pointing seems to be an affliction with those desperately trying to defend the indefensible in Scottish football. Attack anyone (on a personal level, of course) who dares to point out any unpalatable facts. And those personal attacks will range from Graham’s blog to “action on your doorstep”, as promised by some charmer on one of the RFC blogs recently.
Attack the messenger if you don’t like the message, that is the Rangers way, unfortunately for this poor wee country we all live in. No debate, just assertion. No discussion, because we, the peepil, are always right, by definition. And if anyone has a problem with that, then get out there and crack a few heads. I despair, truly I do.
BRTH…..
An amazing peice of literature – superb – thank you.
Great new post on Paul’s blog
All I will say is WOW
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/the-spl-sfa-sfl-woody-allen-spice-girls-plus-rangers-charlie-green-by-ecojon/#more-2112
BRTH
When I was a kid, I played football and read comics. The Dandy, The Beano, The Victor – even used to sneak a wee butchers at my sister’s Jackie. No that’s not a euphemism.
Always got ‘The Shoot’ (did you know that David Nairey said in response to: Most difficult opponent? “Frank McGarvey, coz when he gets the ball, he does’nae know what he is going to do with it…. so what chance have I got?”)
But I liked the comics the best. Short stories often with an interesting beginning to catch my attention, then they’d get down to the meaty plot, and end with a clever or hilarious reference back to the beginning.
Maybe that’s why I enjoy your posts so much, they are structured similarly.
Your post tonight wasn’t structured like that at all.
But it was A BEEZER.
Like many of his ilk, J(ack) McClure doesn’t play the ball, but the man!
Paul McConville – I salute you sir – now the shit has hit
the fan regarding Charles Green 🙂
longtime lurker
21:18
Before you posted that link I had never heard of this CG, I always thought comments on posts here with those initials refered to the bold Charlie. You say this guy has appeared on TV….wow! His rant reminds me of the famous scene from Dad’s Army with the Nazi U boat Captain played by the late Phil Madoc ” your name vill go on za list”. As the poster says the guy need mental therapy, he’s demented and pyschotic. I’ll obvioulsy be on the list now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V3SqxUomwk
Gawd, just saw what I did there. Chronologically, The Shoot did actually come after The Jackie.
I’ll get ma sock.
spanner says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:40
‘My understanding which could be wrong is that payments would have to be contractual as opposed to discretionary, if the ftt were to find for no liability, it is difficult to see how the commission could disagree.’
—–
With respect, your understanding is wrong, and clearly shaped by the MSM ( BBC Radio Scotland in particular).
All payments, ALL payments made to a player for his services ( whether the money fell aff the back o’ a lorry, or came from tax scams) have to be declared to the SFA under Art. 12.1.
The Commission is only interested in whether RFC(IA) breached that rule.
It doesn’t matter a tuppenny toss from the football angle what the FTTT decision is!
The question is: was all the remuneration paid to any player openly declared to the SFA?
If Dodds, for example, got a few grand from his EBT , did RFC tell that to the SFA? Or was it a wee secret between club and player?
And wearing my Cicero hat, I will say that that question has not yet been settled: that’s why there is a Commission!
Most of us, having watched the Mark Daly documentary, think ( maybe even wish) that there is probably evidence to show that RFC deliberately did NOT notify these payments.
If the Commission finds that they did comply with the Rules, well and good:RFC are off that particular , hook from a footballing angle.
HMRC , not at all interested in the affairs of the SFA, will still do RFC if the FTTT finds RFC guilty of tax evasion.
And, of course, they will subsequently pop a wee tax demand through Dodds’ door ( and maybe Sounness’ and Rae’s ……..and SDM’s and CO’s and……and..
The transfer of SFA membership from oldco to newco is the biggest mistake that was made in this whole sorry mess, it has given the rangers support the continuity that they now hold on to.
If the SFA had forced them to apply for membership as a new team the lineage from rangers 1872 to sevco would have been broken.
The SFA’s pandering to CG has came back to haunt them.
john clarke says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:16
HMRC have very publicly stated that their business with Rangers is concluded, they will be pursuing individuals, which leads me to wonder if a decision on the ftt will ever be delivered.
highlandjaggy says:
The rules were never going to be applied to them, that’s the purpose of this blog, to root out the corruption starting with the stooges who govern our beloved game.
Even though the share was corruptly transferred the timeline was broken.
Essex beancounter says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:33
‘.That Mr McConville operates under his own name leaves most of us, operating under pseudonyms/nom-de-plumes speaks volumes.’
——-
Excellently well said, Eb.
And full marks to P McC, who lives in much more dangerous proximity to the kind of characters who post on RM etc.
He makes me feel guilty for using a pseudonym.
Seamus says:
September 12, 2012 at 22:53
Paul McConville – I salute you sir – now the shit has hit
the fan regarding Charles Green
———————————————————————
Seamus,
Should that not be “Fans” !
Sevco “Fans” should really be aware by now ?
As for the tribunal re-convening in November, just why is it going to take another 2 months to gather evidence when they have had the last 7 months ?
I must admit, very slowly, in a drip drip fashion, it’s starting to try my Patience Big Time !
The longer this is dragging on, the more it is dragging the Game down. SFA seem to be Haemorrhaging both support and hard cash going by the last 2 WC Qualifiers !
Supporters are walking away from the Game, including me.
I’d be very interested in comparing attendences now with this time next year / next 2 years ?
I’m willing to bet there will be a big difference !
Sad thing is, if these Administrators currently in charge of “Administrating” OUR Game had any sense of Fair Play, We / They wouldn’t be in the position we now face !
According to Sally “We don’t do walking away”.
Well, Sally, Your “We” might not, but the rest of us have a choice !
It’s also pretty sad /disgraceful, today of all day’s in the light of Hillsborough, that we still have Establishment Cover Up’s going on !
To all concerned, JUST APPLY THE RULES !
That’s “Fair Play !”
spanner says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:33
john clarke says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:16
HMRC have very publicly stated that their business with Rangers is concluded, they will be pursuing individuals, which leads me to wonder if a decision on the ftt will ever be delivered.
===========================
The decision of the FTT, and when it is reached has nothing to do with HMRC.
Keep clutching at straws though.
Well said John Clarke………
It is sad that for our own safety we have to use a pseudonym.
PS – my name’s not really Seamus 🙂