Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.
For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.
The relevant rules are as follows:
Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.
Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.
Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.
Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.
Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.
“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
…
“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.
…
“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission? Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all? No. They did absolutely nothing.
“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.
“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.
“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.
…
“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.
“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.
…
“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?
“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.
…
“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.
“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.
“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.
“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”
——————————————————
Have a read through these edited highlights once again…
The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.
——————————————————
Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.
If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.
I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.
As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!
I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.
Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.
What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-
“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs. As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”
What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…
No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.
As I said, it is brilliant!
He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!
And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!
However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?
Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?
As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!
Posted by Paul McConville
I’m Seamus.
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:49
Who the f*** am I
We’re all Seamus 🙂
Webster on September 12, 2012 at 20:20
I agree that the Hillsbourgh report is not OT.
In that instance and in RFC EBT – both parties seek the truth and that due process will be followed and justice is reached.
I accept that the suffering and loss from Hillsbourgh far exceeds that created through the RFC debacle.
I’m more concerned as to how TSFM managed to
get a picture of me on a good day 🙂
Seamus says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:53
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:49
Who the f*** am I
We’re all Seamus
—————————————————————
T’be Sure T’be Sure !
G’Night All !!
Looks like AJ is getting set for a square go. Ring the police. Lodge complaints.
FIFA says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:01
This is slightly OT but what I dislike about that wee smarmy man is that he always went on about “The Tiger Economy” that was Ireland and how we could be like them. He was Goodies best mate and “what can I do to help in your purchase of ABM Ambro”. That was all about seeing the name Scotland, globally pushing the brand, a kind of Ally McLeod affect where the masses would begin to believe we were unstoppable and the best in the World. Whether he was asked or not he gave his opinion on the poor Rangers situation. Now that everything has gone belly up no mention of the Tiger which has been shot, the banking system which was one great big Ponzi and of course no mention of those shisters involved at Rangers or even what’s going on at the SFA, no the sly one has kept his heid doon and slipped oot the back door without a comment.
ps Well done PMCC great post and big thumbs up to BRTH
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 23:46
I am fully aware of the independence of the ftt, as I am of the independence of HMRC to pursue matters as they so decide, your comment about clutching at straws adds nothing.
Briggsbhoy away back tae labour hame wi yir tory bedfellows and gie us all peace
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/celtic-cleared-by-spl-after-probe-into-use-of-ebt-1-2522219
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/272000-boost-for-rangers-oldco.18866339
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/ebt-claims-in-the-dock-as-spl-challenge-green-to-produce-his-evidence.18871458
Long Time Lurker says: September 12, 2012 at 23:54
Webster on September 12, 2012 at 20:20
I agree that the Hillsbourgh report is not OT.
In that instance and in RFC EBT – both parties seek the truth and that due process will be followed and justice is reached.
I accept that the suffering and loss from Hillsbourgh far exceeds that created through the RFC debacle.
=======
A worthwhile question which could be posed by the MSM to Regan, (I know, but God loves a trier!)
“Mr. Regan, in light of the PM’s apology for – amongst other things – the Police cover up with regard to the Hillsborough disaster…
What is your reaction to the many Scottish football fans who believe there has been a cover up with regard to the SFA and The Rangers and alleged rule breaking – and the SFA decision to promote this newco to SFL3?”
Yes, I know but surely a ‘journalist’ somewhere might ask the SFA a tough question…?
With the continued flouting,breaking and ignoring of nearly every rule within the SL/SFA Rule Books by Charles Green and his Sevco/Rangers Tribute Act, would it not make life easier if the Scottish Football authorities just asked Charles Green to rewite the SL/SFA Rule Books to his exact requirements.
While every other club within Scotland works within the SL/SFA/SPL Rule Books, many of which are dreconian, ie Spartans EXPELLED from the Scottish Cup and fined significantly for not completing their registration forms correctly, at least within the Charles Green Rule Book, Sevco/Rangers Tribute Act would not be breaking the rules on a daily basis, as at present.
Would someone within the Scottish Football Authorities please accommodate this at the ealiest possible date, to ensure that Scottish Football complies with the requirements of Sevco/Rangers Tribute Act.
Just reposting Nowoldandgrumpy’s link from the night shift. As he says, “Wow, just wow!”
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/the-spl-sfa-sfl-woody-allen-spice-girls-plus-rangers-charlie-green-by-ecojon/#more-2112
While the Hillsbourgh Report may bring closure to the families of the 96 Victims who lost their lives in 1989, the scandal is that it has taken over 23 years for the truth to be determined after a massive Police cover up, it is extremely unlikely that any form of real justice will be achieved, as a significant number of those that were responsible for this tragedy will either have died or be retired.
Meanwhile in Scotland, we are involved with the biggest Sporting Fraud that has ever happened with Rangers Football Club (IA) defrauding HMRC and its Creditors of £134 million with the cover up provided by The Scottish Football Authorities and MSM.
It can only be hoped that this fiasco does not take 23 years to be resolved and that all guilty parties are brought to justice without further delay
If charles green doesnt back up his claim about more than 2 clubs using ebts. Should he not be charged witg bringing the game into disrepute and acting against the interests of the sfa and its members?
Vincent lunney are you watching? The man has only just been censured for his outbursts. Already on a yellow card
Dark Blue 02.59
You have got me on a rant now and OT
FYI whilst I am not overly fond of Mr S I think he is a clever “politician” and I believe his assistant to be an excellent one. Back in 2007 they didn’t get my vote but they were the first political party I ever took the notion to write to on their election to power. I basically told them that my image of them had never really been a positive one, I thought they were all short bread tins and kilts and had been hard to take seriously due to the way some of their supporters dressed and acted. I’m sure there are a few on this blog will recall the strange wee guy in the kilt who used to go roon the pubs Glasgow in full highland gear and feathered tourie handing out SNP news sheets, a fine example of the point I was making. Anyway back to reason I wrote to them. I commented that they had the opportunity to get my support and the Scottish peoples if they could prove they were not just tartan and shorbread tins. I asked that they take a look at the boom in the housing market and the massive explosion in the buy to let market and the unsustainable rise in housing prices as I feared that my children would struggle to get on the housing ladder if it continued, I asked that there be more investment in new social housing which may do something to curb the housing problem. There was irresponsible lending going on by the banks.
From 2002 I must have been on almost every major housing development in Scotland and I saw that this boom was one great ponzi. Someone once told me as a young man that “if you can see the gravy train coming your to late”, well the housing boom was a gravy train that just hadn’t left the rails and couldn’t stop. Back to my correspondence with the SNP, I got a rely from secetary 1, then second 2, then sec 3 and I’m sure a forth before I got an answer to my points raised from a Minister (who’s name escapes me) to say that they did not see any major issue with the housing boom and the BTL market and stated that I had nothing to worry about and they would be investing some paltry sum in social housing in the coming years! Well we all know what happened come 2008, just like the Rangers the gravy train came off the rails and lambs now off the menu. So as highlighted in my earlier post Mr S excels in slippin oot the back door and keeping his heid doon. Will I be an SNP voter, who knows!
From todays Sun……………
“The role of a newspaper is to uncover injustice. To forensically examine the claims made by those who are in positions of power.
Justice at last for the 96, may you all rest in peace.
You’ll Never Walk Alone.
‘together we ur rainjurs’ lol this radio commercial gets more cringeworthy as more is revealed about this thoroughly mucked up organisation, let’s hope it is silenced as they are served up with the punishments they deserve and chuckie disappears into the night 🙂
How much costs have BDO got outstanding and if this is “towards” then it must be more than £272,000?
What for? When from?
There has never been any reporting, concerning money not going to the creditors before why now??
——–
“The money belongs to Rangers oldco and is expected to go towards paying outstanding costs to BDO, the accountancy firm charged with overseeing the club’s liquidation, although creditors may feel they are entitled to a share.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/272000-boost-for-rangers-oldco.18866339
green speak with forked tongue.
in yesterday’s interview, green said…that’s why i didn’t give the names of my investers to the fans. it was nothing to do with the fans!
in a previous (pre season-ticket announcement) green said … I WILL tell the fans the names of my 20 investers…the fans have a right to know and i like to be transparant…
[aye right chuckie…you are a slithering snake oil salesman]
Why have Uefa given this money to Ragers (IA) and not 2012 fc ?.Is it because they are two entirely different clubs and Uefa are not afraid to show it .
Why is CG not out winding up the easily persuaded about their money going to the creditors and not to them , after all if the SFA/SPL prize money from last season was given to CG why has this money not .
Or was last seasons prize money given to 2012 fc Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
We were all led to believe that the 2m prize money (due to CG ) was to be used to pay off Scottish footballing debts as part of the conditions of new membership .
So is this yet another so called sanction that is not a sanction after all ?
The cover up just keeps getting murkier and murkier
from today’s Scottish Football gossip on the BBC website
“SFA rules look set to prevent Rangers from signing Barrie McKay on a five-year-deal. (Various)”
Oh, do keep up. We told you that on Tuesday night. And why spin it to sound like the big bad SFA are stopping Rangers from doing this? Why not report it correctly that The Rangers, yet again, tried to do something not allowed by the rules of the game that every other club in Scotland have to adhere to.
Nonsense
Rangers News have commented on this
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2176-barrie-mckay-statement
FOLLOWING a number of inaccurate reports in today’s newspapers, the Club can confirm it has agreed a long-term contract with Barrie McKay.
Reports in today’s press suggested the SFA would reject McKay’s five-year deal as rules prevent players under the age of 18 from signing a contract of that length.
For the avoidance of doubt, the Club is well aware of the rule and at no time confirmed Barrie had signed a five-year contract.
Barrie has pledged his future to Rangers for the next five years – as stated on the Rangers website on Tuesday evening.
Not off topic I presume as there have been several posts on the subject and it’s clearly connected to the organisational malaise in the governance of Scottish fitba.
I’m a member of the Tartan Army and attend all Scotland’s home games not to mention the odd away one as well. Up until now I’ve been neutral on the subject of Craig Levein but I am beginning to despair. Whatever Willie Miller and the other pundits said about our opponents over the two recent games, both sides were beatable. Not only that but we for the first time in a decade we have some real talent in our pool and a bit of depth so that even with key players like Darren Fletcher unavailable we have adequate cover.
So why, in a home game against mid-ranking opposition did we play a completely negative formation and team selection? I know it’s important not to lose, especially at home, but it’s rather more important to win. This is football remember, the whole point being to win games by scoring more goals than the opposition.
Three centre halfs – one in mid field resulting in two players being played in the same position just in front of the defence. A lone striker up front who is too slight and now not even fast enough to make any impact on the opposition. Substitutions made far too late to have any influence on the game. Players well short of match fitness (Naismith and Hutton – the latter painfully obvious in the second half of the Macedonia game). And, several players did have off days.
I have to ask the question, do we really want to qualify? When this group was announced the general opinion was that it was likely to be a dogfight. Everyone was in with a chance and we could fight our way to qualification while the others nicked points off each other. Two games in and anyone still harbouring that idea must be completely deluded.
These games were winnable despite some players’ form. We needed the right team selection, formation and motivation. All these things are down to the manager and he must bear the responsibility. “No one wants to go to Brazil more than I do,” he states. If so why not pick a team that can do that and get them fired up?
We are Scotland, once the proudest footballing nation on the planet. We thought ourselves World Champions when we beat England in 1967 (in fact we’ve held the unofficial world cup more times than anyone else in football history). Until a few years ago we knew we were as good as anyone in the world. Where was the passion, the arrogance, the joy, the determination, the guts, the never-say-die attitude that used to characterise Scottish teams? Yes, there may be short comings in our skill levels, but we never stopped going forward, confident that we could will the ball into the net if we had to.
Last minute winner against Lichtenstein? 4-6-0 formation? Really, we are pathetic and deserve no better than mediocrity. And so to come full circle, is that acceptance of the mediocre a symptom of the disease that is inflicting the administration of Scottish football? I can only compare the reaction of the authorities to the self-inflicted demise of Rangers to a rabbit caught in car headlights. They were hypnotised, scared stiff, unable to take any rational action. They had no plan or strategy and rolled over to every demand of Charles Green and Sevco and apparently are still doing so. Are they equally mesmerised by the impending failure of our national side? Two games in and there’s yet another train wreck thundering down the track towards us. At the moment even dithering would be an improvement.
mirrenman @ 09:35
Talk about double speak 🙂
mirrenman says:
“For the avoidance of doubt, the Club is well aware of the rule and at no time confirmed Barrie had signed a five-year contract.
Barrie has pledged his future to Rangers for the next five years – as stated on the Rangers website on Tuesday evening.”
——-
Moral of the story – close-reading of TRFC statements is a must, as is going back to source and doing so when something is reported in the MSM.
TRFC are perfectly correct. “Pledging your future” to a Club and signing a contract are two entirely different things.
TRFC therefore confirm that at least one of their statements can be interpreted by a reasonable man in a way which does not reflect the truth (pledging one’s future to a Club is generally accepted to refer to length of contract signed) .
The outcome is that any TRFC statement from now on will be scrutinised closely, with the slightest ambiguities analysed.
… ambiguities, and masonic references. 🙂 🙂
Propitious or what? The SPL EBT enquiry sits 13th Novemeber.
On this day in 1789 – Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to a friend in which he said, “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Re-post due to an unfortunate 3 letter grouping in one word, now replaced.
Not off topic I presume as there have been several posts on the subject and it’s clearly connected to the organisational malaise in the governance of Scottish fitba.
I’m a member of the Tartan Army and attend all Scotland’s home games not to mention the odd away one as well. Up until now I’ve been neutral on the subject of Craig Levein but I am beginning to despair. Whatever Willie Miller and the other pundits said about our opponents over the two recent games, both sides were beatable. Not only that but we for the first time in a decade we have some real talent in our pool and a bit of depth so that even with key players like Darren Fletcher unavailable we have adequate cover.
So why, in a home game against mid-ranking opposition did we play a completely negative formation and team selection? I know it’s important not to lose, especially at home, but it’s rather more important to win. This is football remember, the whole point being to win games by scoring more goals than the opposition.
Three centre halfs – one in mid field resulting in two players being played in the same position just in front of the defence. A lone striker up front who is too slight and now not even fast enough to make any impact on the opposition. Substitutions made far too late to have any influence on the game. Players well short of match fitness (Naismith and Hutton – the latter painfully obvious in the second half of the Macedonia game). And, several players did have off days.
I have to ask the question, do we really want to qualify? When this group was announced the general opinion was that it was likely to be a dogfight. Everyone was in with a chance and we could fight our way to qualification while the others nicked points off each other. Two games in and anyone still harbouring that idea must be completely deluded.
These games were winnable despite some players’ form. We needed the right team selection, formation and motivation. All these things are down to the manager and he must bear the responsibility. “No one wants to go to Brazil more than I do,” he states. If so why not pick a team that can do that and get them fired up?
We are Scotland, once the proudest footballing nation on the planet. We thought ourselves World Champions when we beat England in 1967 (in fact we’ve held the unofficial world cup more times than anyone else in football history). Until a few years ago we knew we were as good as anyone in the world. Where was the passion, the arrogance, the joy, the determination, the guts, the never-say-die attitude that used to characterise Scottish teams? Yes, there may be short comings in our skill levels, but we never stopped going forward, confident that we could will the ball into the net if we had to.
Last minute winner against Lichtenstein? 4-6-0 formation? Really, we are pathetic and deserve no better than mediocrity. And so to come full circle, is that acceptance of the mediocre a symptom of the disease that is inflicting the administration of Scottish football? I can only compare the reaction of the authorities to the self-inflicted demise of Rangers to a rabbit caught in car headlights. They were hypnotised, scared stiff, unable to take any rational action. They had no plan or strategy and rolled over to every demand of Charles Green and Sevco and apparently are still doing so. Are they equally mesmerised by the impending failure of our national side? Two games in and there’s yet another train wreck coming down the track towards us. At the moment even dithering would be an improvement.
If a 17 year old player is signed under contract for 3 years– and this is registered with the SFL — and then his club makes a public statement saying that he has committed to the club for 5 years
Does this then mean he has TWO contracts…….?
Ianc says:
September 13, 2012 at 09:48
Propitious or what? The SPL EBT enquiry sits 13th Novemeber.
On this day in 1789 – Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to a friend in which he said, “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
_________________________________________________
Is this the same Mr Franklin who was Grand Master of Lodge Les Neuf Sœurs between 1779 and 1781? 👿
OK, so we’ve unveiled his weasel words over barry Mackays contract, HOWEVER, lets go back to last year. Oldco RFC (IA) signed Allan McShagger on a 6 year contract – despite the longest deal allowable being 5 years.
this was not challenged in the MSM at the time and the SPL/SFA had nothing to say about it.
OBVIOUSLY they knew the rules, so why announce a 6 year deal when it wasn’t? playing to the gallery, deflect the real news? How long has the lying to their own fans been going on?
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 13, 2012 at 10:04
“If a 17 year old player is signed under contract for 3 years– and this is registered with the SFL — and then his club makes a public statement saying that he has committed to the club for 5 years
Does this then mean he has TWO contracts…….?”
**********************************************************************************************************************
LOL
In Scots Law, is a verbal contract still legally binding? Is it still called an “onerous contract”?
Don John, apart from Berti Vogts, in recent times (I would say starting with Mr Roxburgh) SFA appointees have appeared more interested in their own stats than in the promotion of the game. A bit like heidies who deny entry to national examinations to marginal candidates in case they do not pass… Priorities all skewed.
Contract of employment must be in writing, shirley?
mirrenman says:
September 13, 2012 at 09:35
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Rangers News have commented on this
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2176-barrie-mckay-statement
FOLLOWING a number of inaccurate reports in today’s newspapers, the Club can confirm it has agreed a long-term contract with Barrie McKay.
======================================================
Original statement on the signings,
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2164-boss-thrilled-as-trio-sign
“ALLY McCOIST played a pivotal role in securing new long-term contracts for youngsters Lewis Macleod, Barrie McKay and Robbie Crawford – because he feels they deserve it.
The Rangers boss wanted all three exciting prospects to feel they were first team players and on equal footing with the other squad members.
And he sincerely hopes the trio will fully develop into top players for the club in years to come.
Macleod, McKay and Crawford have all pledged their futures to Rangers for the next five years.”
So a “long term CONTRACT” is different from “PLEDGED theire future for the next five years”,
I thought you had to sign a pledge, which would make it a contract… YES!!
So what has been signed that THE Rangers hold, that has not been lodged (oops) with the SFA??
“… we’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers,” said Neil Newhouse of the Mitt Romney campaign.
This came to mind as I read Alastair Johnston’s statement and also thought back to others made by various RFC/Sevco-related persons.
Whether the inaccuracies we have noted are indeed innocent or alternatively are driven by other motives is largely irrelevant. What is important is that the SFM continues to challenge these statements and makes the results freely available to the MSM and the general public.
There is a neat little analysis often done in American newspapers taking statements and awarding ‘True/False’ status with an appropriate explanation alongside.
That would be a useful library to add to SFM for statements like Mr Johnston’s.….
On another note I am also struck by the latitude given to those with extreme views both in the US and in our own media. We do live in a democracy and people are entitled to freedom of speech.
With such freedom however comes responsibility and the death of the US Ambassador in Libya and threats made against Scottish football figures clearly evidences the need for such responsibility.
Our media needs to grasp this nettle and challenge inflammatory or downright untrue statements and thus properly serve their readership and the wider public.
Journalists are not there to act solely as an unchallenging conduit for press statements from parties with serious vested interests.
/ Red Lichtie
Rangers have probably offered the youngsters initial 2 or 3 year contracts with rolling options on the further additional years making them into 5 year contracts if they stay for the full term. Hearts commonly do similar with the more promising kids, it’s a 2 year contract with the potential for 5 if they do well.
Charlie Brown says:
September 13, 2012 at 11:06
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Rangers have probably offered the youngsters initial 2 or 3 year contracts with rolling options on the further additional years making them into 5 year contracts if they stay for the full term. Hearts commonly do similar with the more promising kids, it’s a 2 year contract with the potential for 5 if they do well.
———————–
yup, but a 2 year deal with options is very different to a 5 year deal
lets say the youngster turns out to be the next Messi, they can leave in 2 years and the club will received the standard “development fee” compensation
however, if the deal is 5 years, the youngster can’t move and/or the club can sell him off to the highest bidder.
jim mclean of DUFC used to put youngsters on 8 and 10 year contracts and it was this sort of behaviour that led to the change in youth contracts being for a max of 3 years.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 13, 2012 at 11:14
NTHM it is usually the club that holds the option not the player ie the minimum terms are pre-agreed and the club decides to extend the contract or not or renegotiate etc. It’s fairly common practice to be honest, the players can of course break the contract but the club is still entitled to compensation and development fees etc for these players if he signs for another club.
Anyone know if Gary Withey has managed to become a defendent??
http://www.thelawyer.com/ex-collyer-bristow-partner-withey-to-join-rangers-trial-as-defendant/1013882.article
http://www.thelawyer.com/a-summer-of-discontent/1013899.article
“Withey could not be contacted at his current firm Segens, where he is a consultant, but The Lawyer understands he wishes to have the opportunity to defend himself against the allegations of his conduct contained in the claim. His application will be heard on 10 September.”
BUT if sevco are liquidated then all contracts, pledges etc are null and void ……. Boys you are free to go!!!
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 13, 2012 at 10:04
If a 17 year old player is signed under contract for 3 years– and this is registered with the SFL — and then his club makes a public statement saying that he has committed to the club for 5 years
Does this then mean he has TWO contracts…….?
……………………………………………………………………………………………..
Is it not true that in Scotland a verbal agreement is classed as a contract and a witnessed verbal agreement can be used in a court of law to fight/defend a case.
I was in a situation several years ago where I won a largish settlement as I had been made a verbal offer, which I accepted and the other party later withdrew.
We got as far as a court date and they settled out of court as their legal advice was that you would lose.
The MSM and some people on here (self included) repeatedly refer to Sevco Scotland purchasing the assets of RFC(IA)
This did not happen
Thelegal positipn is that
Sevco 88 a completely different Co with a similar name bought these assets and sold them to Sevco Scotland for an undisclosed price
So Sevco Scotland are the 3rd owners this year of the assets of RFC
jonny says:
September 13, 2012 at 09:20
Why have Uefa given this money to Ragers (IA) and not 2012 fc ?.Is it because they are two entirely different clubs and Uefa are not afraid to show it .
Why is CG not out winding up the easily persuaded about their money going to the creditors and not to them , after all if the SFA/SPL prize money from last season was given to CG why has this money not .
Or was last seasons prize money given to 2012 fc Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
We were all led to believe that the 2m prize money (due to CG ) was to be used to pay off Scottish footballing debts as part of the conditions of new membership .
So is this yet another so called sanction that is not a sanction after all ?
The cover up just keeps getting murkier and murki
***************
May be wrong but I think D&P said they gave that prize money to CG for batering in the SFA membership negociations – SPL kept the prize money – it was not used to pay off other debts as that was condition no 2 – that Charlie do so.
Would be nice to have someone release the agreement as it won’t look so good for Charlie when the Bears see the “hard man” negociations!
was it reported that another of Craig Why(i)tes ex companies is in admin as at 8th September?
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/pritchard-stockbrokers
Do kegs or fifa have any rules forbidding franchise football teams
Tongue in cheek reporting from the DR…
“SCOTLAND remain on track for the World Cup finals after picking up important points at home to a brilliant Serbian side and very good Macedonia team who are much better than their 97th place in the rankings would suggest.
Buy it? Didn’t think so.
But that is the kind of happy-clappy nonsense the Scotland camp seem to think the media should be reporting.
Forget things like facts, ignore irrelevant stuff like evidence: This Scottish side is making progress and remains on course for Brazil.
Perhaps the media should go the whole hog and just tell the country Scotland won 5-0. If we repeat it often enough, the masses might believe it.”
Forgetting things like facts or ignoring evidence hasn’t seemed to hold you back in the past…
Cortes says:
September 13, 2012 at 10:20
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Don John, apart from Berti Vogts, in recent times (I would say starting with Mr Roxburgh) SFA appointees have appeared more interested in their own stats than in the promotion of the game.
————————————————————————————–
I’d say that’s a bit unfair to Roxburgh who did OK with the big team and tried his best with developing young players. True of Brown though who although he had the double responsibility of managing big team and being responsible your youth football (or at least part of it never bothered with the latter half of his remit. Of ocurse the SFA should take a huge amount of blame for considering youth players so unimportant they combined the responsibilies.
Caveat: above is all from memory but quick search on Brown and Roxburgh resulted in info that was too brief to include confirmation of above. Think I’m still right about Brown wrt management of big team: later in his career he seemed very reluctant to blood young players even in friendlies.
BBC reporting FTT decision in October, seems a solid story, not long now folks. The timing with respect to Green’s share issue couldn’t be worse.
Green is walking a fine line between keeping the fans onside and the cash trickling in, and pushing the authorities to the point where they can’t turn a blind any longer. The news that the youth contrct is being investigated, looks like the authorities are willing to push back in some areas at least.
I wouldn’t worry to much about AJ, I suspect that he will be one of many who end up being banned for life from Scottish Football once all this shakes out.
That Daily Record version of our glorious World Cup campaign reminded me of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBOZspv9m4
I’m guessing that appearing in a badly doctored video will be as close as we come to participating in Rio. No doubt we’ll win it too, cheered on by out beloved leader
On the Craig Levein tenure…
He has more players to choose from who play in a higher league (England) than has been available over the last ten years.
There should therefore be an expectation level that we can compete.
It is with dismay therefore that we pick someone who plays in a lower league (Canada) than our own, while at the same time leaving a consistent striker playing at a higher level out of the squad altogether.
I have no feelings on the Steven Fletcher situation however maybe it could have been handled differently.
I know Alan McGregor is still selected and there was a little problem with both him and Barry Ferguson at one time also.
There is no point in Caldwell playing a holding role unless you are playing wingers and wing backs.
There is no point in playing wingers and wingbacks with only one up front who has limited heading ability.
Who says there is no room for coaching in Scottish football….. oh that was me.
Just been into Waterstones in Glasgow city centre looking for Phils book Downfall. After being sent from one area to another I was eventually sent to the front counter where an assistant produced a copy from under the counter.
What a sad country we live in. Freedom of expression Whether verbal or written has now become fraught with danger for our citizens. About time that AS stood up and told the SFA to sort out this ‘mob rule of the Sevco fans’ or somebody or bodies or going to get seriously hurt.
AS demanded changes to the law after the Lennon/McCoist debacle and having got that, I do not see those laws being enforced so far as the fans of Sevco are concerned.
Get some b*lls government and SFA !!!
Amazingly the Head of Security at Ibrox has issues with the behaviour of Rangers fans, and reckons thier behaviour is not in the best interests of the club,but does nothing about it!
“Union Bears Statement
It is with great disappointment that we must inform the 500+ fans on our BF1 transfer waiting list that Rangers have decided to block our proposed move and expansion into the central sections of the Broomloan Front.
Despite positive discussions at the start of the season with the Ticket Office in which they said it wouldn’t be a problem for them to accommodate this, it has now become clear that the Head of Security, David Martin, is not going to allow the move to happen. This was confirmed this week in a meeting in which he outlined his reasoning behind this decision.
Put simply, he believes that the behaviour of supporters in BF1 is not in the best interests of Rangers Football Club and often breaks numerous ground regulations. He believes that an expanded section will see an increase in this “behaviour” and will become uncontrollable.”
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?s=5d2e0b5b0572d7a2e916c78217782eaf&showtopic=238139
Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 13:28
2 0 Rate This
Just been into Waterstones in Glasgow city centre looking for Phils book Downfall. After being sent from one area to another I was eventually sent to the front counter where an assistant produced a copy from under the counter.
=============================
Just been into Waterstones in Argyll St in Glasgow city centre looking for Phils book Downfall.
It was on display in the best sellers section.
This was around noon.
I remember Roxburgh and his school-masterly coaches coming to our local sports center during the school holidays back in the 70’s to take a training session with the kids from the surrounding area.
I’d never experienced such a miserable day on a football field in all my life.
You could feel them sucking the guile, adventure and enjoyment out of the players and the game even then.
A procession of think-alikes throughout the organisation has left us where we are now.
iki says:
September 13, 2012 at 13:48
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Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 13:28
2 0 Rate This
Just been into Waterstones in Glasgow city centre looking for Phils book Downfall. After being sent from one area to another I was eventually sent to the front counter where an assistant produced a copy from under the counter.
=============================
Just been into Waterstones in Argyll St in Glasgow city centre looking for Phils book Downfall.
It was on display in the best sellers section.
This was around noon.
===============================
books probably not on display because of shoplifting weegies!!!! hahahahahaha
fight fight fight fight!!! 🙂
no need to reply, i’m just messin!
I was in the one in Sauchiehall Street, maybe they had just sold out and I got one that was returned by a Sevco fan
NTHM
Whereabouts is Watersjtones in Argyle Street ?
Looking for another copy
It looks like the bears have come up with a cunning plan over in RM land.They are going to give the media what for, apparently the media have been writing bad things about the glorius sevco.
After every home game they are going to surround the BBC headquarters until they stop writing and broadcasting bad things about Charles and Ally.Dont know if this is stage 2(anger) or stage 3(bargaining) but at least it looks like we’re past stage 1(denial) which is a positive sign.
LOL, Chucky doesn’t do evidence, or legal advice it seems.
TUPE? Chucky doesn’t believe in it.
Players registrations moving between dead club and new club? If Chucky says they transfer they transfer.
U18s signing for only 3 years? Chucky doesn’t do employment law.
Advertising standards? Chucky does not do rules.
Resurrection? Only Chucky can raise the dead.
Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 14:20
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NTHM
Whereabouts is Watersjtones in Argyle Street ?
Looking for another copy
—–
20yards from Celtic shop.
With regards to the performances of the national team this week – alarming to see the huge decline from Saturday to Tuesday – Saturday we were broadly competitive with a more gifted side – it was a match we could have won – Tuesday we were a shambles and the draw was a manifest injustice to Macedonia who deserved a clear victory by at least a two goal margin based upon the balance of the game and chances created. .
The first draw was an indictment of our system of producing players with poor skills and little vision – who play too cautiously, rather than the manager per se – I felt a reasonable performance given the paucity of resources at our disposal. .
Tuesday’s was an indictment of a manager who misplaced individuals, appeared to have given no tactical advice and chose the wrong team from the players available – which in addition to the wider shortcomings of the players in the system, led to possiibly the worst performance since the Faroes debacle.
It is alarming that the second game of a double header sees such a decline from the first – logic would suggest that the extra days of being together, the lessons learned from the first match and the understandings that should have been formed would see significant improvement between the games – or at least some improvement.
We need an SFA focused on boosting the development of young players and quality coaching of our International team. We appear to have a governing body intent on covering its own back and maintaining what it can of a failed status quo.
Mr Bunny says:
September 13, 2012 at 12:31
Cortes says:
September 13, 2012 at 10:20
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Don John, apart from Berti Vogts, in recent times (I would say starting with Mr Roxburgh) SFA appointees have appeared more interested in their own stats than in the promotion of the game.
————————————————————————————–
I’d say that’s a bit unfair to Roxburgh who did OK with the big team and tried his best with developing young players. True of Brown though who although he had the double responsibility of managing big team and being responsible your youth football (or at least part of it never bothered with the latter half of his remit. Of ocurse the SFA should take a huge amount of blame for considering youth players so unimportant they combined the responsibilies.
Caveat: above is all from memory but quick search on Brown and Roxburgh resulted in info that was too brief to include confirmation of above. Think I’m still right about Brown wrt management of big team: later in his career he seemed very reluctant to blood young players even in friendlies.
==========================================================================
I remember an interview with a Scotland manager where said manager said Scotland would struggle to improve unless we totally revamped our coaching system.He advocated smaller pitches,seven a sides,no tactical coaching for youngsters,just concentration on skills.Better facilities were needed,more coaches etc.
That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37
That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Face it – we are keech
posmill says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:18
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thank you essex, but if this was school I would have gotten marks off for the misplaced apostrophe in “innuendo’s” (sic)
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Posmill….”…gotten….”…has the transatlantic influence taken over entirely…?
You naughty boy….!
PS…have you read …”Eats Shoots and Leaves…”…?
Nah…let us leave it there….LOL!
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37
That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
============
Roxburgh never missed an opportunity to promote small sides, small pitches etc. I heard him do so all those years ago.
Cortes says:
September 13, 2012 at 10:20
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Don John, apart from Berti Vogts, in recent times (I would say starting with Mr Roxburgh) SFA appointees have appeared more interested in their own stats than in the promotion of the game. A bit like heidies who deny entry to national examinations to marginal candidates in case they do not pass… Priorities all skewed
————————————————–
Cortes
I listened to Bobby Gould (father of Johnathon also Wales manager ) on talksport and he was asked a question about being the Welsh manager and part of his answer was, when I became manager I asked Craig Brown for advice and he said, “Do not play difficult friendlies it ruins your stats”. Shows you the mentality of Scotland managers in my opinion.
A Expert says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:52
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Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37
That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Face it – we are keech
========================================================================
A Expert…I recall an interview with Mr Roxburgh, then about to depart to a “technical” job at UEFA (honestly!) when his primary thrust, after a mediocre Scottish performance was simply…”…just look at the stats….look at the stats…”
I contrast this from the days when Scotland, as always punching well above their weight, more than held their own with the likes of Czechoslovakia (1961), Italy (1965), W(sic) Germany(1973),
Holland (1974)…had no inkling for “stats” and filled Hampden almost to its 120k capacity…!
These “A” lister countries genuinely thought they had more than a game on their hands in those days!
I am off for a lie down…too many nostalgiac thoughts around me….!
iki says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:56
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37
That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
============
Exactly.
And does anyone think that in another 30 years Scottish football will be better ?
Radical change is needed – and it’s not going to happen with the current Scottish administrations set-up.
Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 14:20
Looking for another copy..?
Take the No 14 bus..tell the driver you are goin “Down” to Braid “Fall” road.
He will give you a ticket..on the ticket will be a number,when divided by 13 will give you a page number in the Metro,(the one that guy kindly handed to you as he was getting off the bus).
Open on that same number page in the Metro, there will be a crossword clue which has been circled,
Charity Magazine..? 3/3/5 T– B– I—-.When the driver calls. hey you..this is your stop mate !!
Get off,walk 50 yards to your left,the sellers outside Greggs will ask if you want a magazine & will tell you..we are DOWN & out ,broke,bankrupt,penniless,potless,we have been found out,we have FALL(en).
…look carefully you may not recognise them under the 4 piss stained coats,loupin clothes, bunnits & scruffy beards..when you finally recognise them as James Jabba Traynor.& Darell the truth King..just give them both a wry smile, chuck them a quid & pop next door into Waterstones… buy a copy.
🙂
Just reading back, I managed to get a copy of Downfall on Monday in Waterstones in Sauchiehall St. I had a look in the new section then downstairs in the sport section to no avail. When I requested at the counter the assistant went elsewhere to bring a copy back. I did say to him if it was true that they were being kept hidden, and he said no, they are in the new section although there were only 3 copies left. After parting cash for the book I went upstairs again and did eventually find a copy on the shelf. After reading on other blogs it does look like it is selling well, with people who have already ordered on Amazon going to the bookstores to get it sooner.
”If you don’t need to know, you don’t get to hear.” says:
September 13, 2012 at 16:12
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Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 14:20
Looking for another copy..?
Take the No 14 bus..tell the driver you are goin “Down” to Braid “Fall” road.
He will give you a ticket..on the ticket will be a number,when divided by 13 will give you a page number in the Metro,(the one that guy kindly handed to you as he was getting off the bus).
Open on that same number page in the Metro, there will be a crossword clue which has been circled,
Charity Magazine..? 3/3/5 T– B– I—-.When the driver calls. hey you..this is your stop mate !!
Get off,walk 50 yards to your left,the sellers outside Greggs will ask if you want a magazine & will tell you..we are DOWN & out ,broke,bankrupt,penniless,potless,we have been found out,we have FALL(en).
…look carefully you may not recognise them under the 4 piss stained coats,loupin clothes, bunnits & scruffy beards..when you finally recognise them as James Jabba Traynor.& Darell the truth King..just give them both a wry smile, chuck them a quid & pop next door into Waterstones… buy a copy.
=================================================================
Not very good at Cryptic/Mephisto croosword clues….but gimme a clue…!
PS…I have my copy….apart from the blog recaps…”a right riveting read…”(copywright the Grauniad 1980’s)