The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
Thanks to Nisi Dominus Frustra on KDS:-
The Rising. (The D of C will have them down by lunchtime I would imagine)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l5GvzDRFkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDq4V9l5kes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSGRB8F1mQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSGRB8F1mQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDq4V9l5kes
Posted in wrong order? Edit function would be good.
Interesting if true…
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/378049/Rangers-keeper-can-t-deal-with-wage-cut
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/promises-promises-but-can-green-deliver-on-his-key-pledges.20243324
“The pledge to maximise Rangers FC’s media opportunities: The Rangers.co.uk website currently enjoys 800,000 monthly visits; there are 280,000 Rangers Facebook followers, and 95,000 follow Rangers FC Official on Twitter. None of this is lost on Green.”
Green, using his fingers a toes and conveniently ignoring the fact that many of these will be the same people and the liklihood that many of the hits on the website will not be Rangers fans, does the arithmetic.
800,000 + 280,000 + 95,000 = 500,000,000
PS Feel free to add to Graham’s selection of ‘pledges’. There are a number to choose from if Green’s recent world tour has been accurately reported.
the “documentary” claimed – one man was working behind the scenes on a “takeover plan”.
what was he “taking over”??
he bought “assets” which were all thyat was left to “buy”.
he bought those assets with borrowed money – borrowed from “investors”.
he claimed he already had investors at the time, but it now turns out he did not.
he needed ORLIT to source his investors and agreed to PAY orlit a 5% fee for finding these investors.
he obviously lied about having the investors in the 1st place.
did the msm ask any questions about this? did the sevco fans ask any questions about this?
during the floatation, he bought shares in rangers international (the parent company) at 1p per share. he also allegedly gave alistair mccoist, shares to the value of what he was owed.
alistair was allegedly owed backdated salary, but he agreed to convert the value of his salary into shares and then qualify for a bonus and possibly an internal dividend?
[Green] also pays himself handsomely, along with his other directors, stockbridge and imran.
allegedly they are getting £340,000 per annum with bonuses on top – not to mention some kind of payback for their initial “investment loans” to the consortia to buy the assets.
http://www.scotzine.com/2013/02/what-will-charles-green-give-up-for-lent/
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 00:43
The financial info includes total wages and turnover. Will the share issue “income” however be part of the turnover? Should be fun.
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The share issue money is not classed as turnover- at least not in any accounting system I’ve ever come across. Also, that money will never appear in the accounts of TRFC, but in the accounts of its parent, RIFC. As I understand it, the SFA has no right to information regarding RIFC (unless the five way agreement covers this?).
Joseph Gobbels must have come back from the dead to direct and edit “the rising: rangers one year on from administration.”
Have just watched part 1: zero reference made to (S)DM – its all the fault of the TGEF – amazing attempt to re-write history.
Jim Traynor and Roddy Forsyth appear in part 1 – no other journalists appear. An interesting combination I thought.
Part III circa 3:32 – JT starts to talk about sporting integrity, how this is hypocrisy – Rangers are victims.
Interesting that JT and AMc make reference to the Club having no licence and could not play until they have a licence 🙂
Part III circa 21:30 IPO a huge success – 22m raised, all legitimate, all monies there – then we get to the GC is god – he has raised capital in difficult economic times – CG and the consortia has saved the Club.
Part III circa 24:00 – AMc saviour of the Club – great manager
Part III 25:37 – Its all okay – the history of the Club is continious – its a falsehood to suggest that this has been broken [at this point I am struggling to continue]
What I have seen thus far – blatent propaganda piece. If I were a creditor of RFC I would not be that impressed.
From KDS
Brenda, Declan…her name’s Brenda.
We’re supposed to be going round in circles…I think it was designed that way.
But it’s actually quite linear. I don’t have the solution to the puzzle, but I know that others do.
I think I’ll be putting Google away, puting my feet up and watching it all unfold nicely from now on.
Is (another) big [catastrophic?] story about to break on the MSM?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 02:14
========================================================
From KDS this morning:
Willow international ltd ?
http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/piudb/viewpiucasedetails.asp?companyname=Willow%20International%20Ltd
Company Name: Willow International Ltd
Trading Name: Willow International http://www.willow-international.co.uk
Company Registered Number: 06679288
Court Number: High Court Of Justice 19130 of 2009
Address 1: 5th Floor, Royal London House, 22-25 Finsbury Square, London EC2A 1DX
and
2 London Wall Buildings, London EC2M 5UU
Address 2:
Address 3:
Petition Date: 29/09/2009
Provisional Liquidation Order date: 17/12/2009
Petition Hearing Date: 31/03/2010
Winding up order date: 31/03/10
Current Status: On 31 March 2010 a winding up order was made against Willow International Ltd on the petition of the Secretary of State for the department for Business, Innovation and Skills, on the grounds of the public interest. This followed an investigation
Contact: Gabriela Vargova
Telephone number 1: 0207 637 6626
Telephone number 2:
Telephone number 3:
Email: piu.or@insolvency.gsi.gov.uk
================================
Merchant House Group: Issue of equity
http://www.merchanthousegroup.com/rns/issue-of-equity020911
208,500,000 New Ordinary Shares to Willow International Limited (“Willow”) (held … £104,250 of loan principal to Willow, a company domiciled in the Seychelles …
Merchant House Group: Issue of equityServer Error
404 – File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
====================================
Hope this helps,
CG – I left school at 15 and went to work in the mines.
Assuming the age is correct and Mr Green did work in the mines, his statement is true. He didn’t say “immediately went to work in the mines”. Journos do this, too. Put two events in chronological order and imply a direct link between them. You could have “player x suffered a broken leg after a crunching tackle from player y”. The fact that the broken leg was suffered at home, hours after the game, does not make the statement false.
Charles could also have had his fingers crossed behind his back.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 08:45
Journos do this, too. Put two events in chronological order and imply a direct link between them.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Just like they are pushing the ,,,,,,, look at us now, 12 months after administration pish. When in reality there is no US to look at anymore.
Four words from Speirs on CG today sums up everything that is wrong with CG and the MSM
“he is reasonably honest….”
Is that really a compliment? Someone is reasonably honest? Does Speirs not think that after the way RFC(IL) was pillaged by its two previous owners who could have dissembled for Britain, that the bears deserve someone who is scrupulously honest?
Or is “reasonably” a good enough benchmark for someone who has taken season ticket money and share subscription money off the fans?
Does the FSA only require prospectuses to be reasonably honest?
Does the SFA only require someone who is reasonably fit and proper?
Does the media only require its reporters to be reasonably honest?
Will Sevco’s accounts only have to be reasonably accurate?
Do referees only have to be reasonably honest?
And at the end of the day that is a wholly subjective marker, but then objectivity has never been a requirement of association football in this country.
Tommy says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 01:23
Just to confirm your post, Tommy. I’m 61 (but feel 81 🙁 ) and I remember a good friend leaving school at 15, he’s just over a year older than me, but by the time I was 15 the leaving age had gone up to 16. So, Charlie boy couldn’t have left school at 15, he speaks with forked tongue – yet again. On the otherhand, at 16, I got a job during my summer holidays working in the NCB workshops at Newtongrange and, even though it was only a 7 week job, had to do 2 weeks training, the same as the miners did. There were two other guys, like myself, there who both had similar summer jobs (we all had parents who worked in NCB offices) but there were another half dozen, aged 16 and 17, who were training to work as miners and to go down the pits as soon as the 2 week training was over. I daresay that, previously, 15 year olds were going down the mines to work, but CG wasn’t one of them!
On a side note, one day, as part of our ‘training’ we looked down a mineshaft. It was like looking into hell itself, never seen anything as black. I’d always been a bit of a lazy so-and-so at school but that next year I worked my socks off, having seen what some had to endure to earn a crust. Great respect to miners, everywhere.
My opinion on the debate Paul Murray, Sandy Jardine, Gordon Smith and Chris Graham seem to want to kick start – the lack of “support” given to RFC-1872 board in their fight to stop CW from taking over their club….
No 1 issue I have with this version of history is that there were no “fights” to keep CW out of the club – the directors themselves have stated (Bain and Johnston) that they did an investigation as was their job in charge of the committe to find a new owner and told SDM of their findings and misgivings – they themselves acknowledge SDM dismissed these misgivings and that this was not made public at the time.
2nd issue I have is that the MSM trotted out the now infamous billionaire off the radar wealth stories – so the misgivings were certainly hushed up!
3rd issue is -let’s say 1 and 2 above were not in the scope and there really was concern over CW – why would it be the SFA’s job to tell a member that even though the member liked the new club owner, that the SFA did not? Considering that according to Leggo/Graham/McMurdo that all things done in SFA are done at the behest of Lawwell, can you imagine the backlash where SFA told RFC-1872 that they could not have the billionaire and would not allow this takeover to happen? All sorts of charges of Lawwell making sure RFC-1872 “bright” future with a new billionaire and 15m pound warchest to buy new players would not happen – he would be charged with trying to stop the dominance of RFC and the 3 in a row becoming 9 in a row.
RFC-1872 had shareholders and a board that were responsible for CW taking over – as well as SDM and a compliant and willing MSM.
Don’t like to defend the SFA after the summer od 2012 – but in the summer of 2011 they did nothing wrong – other than employ CO!
Time to take reponsability!
I watched “The Rising”. I thought it was a good piece and well put together. I expected whole load or WATP nonsense but thankfully it was a fairly balanced documentary on administration and beyond from a Rangers perspective. There was a bit of sabre rattling from Charles Green towards the end “they miss us, we don’t miss them” which was un-necessary. I would rather not have had to watch and listen to Jim Traynor. Overall though, very good.
It stuck me as more of a tribute to the fans than anything else. Regardless of what you think about the moronic element of the Rangers support, it is phenomenal that so many have come out to support their team in the 3rd division. And more than that, a 3rd division team that has no resemblance to Rangers teams of the past. I think the Rangers fans (the non-moronic ones) should be rightly proud. I don’t know how many football clubs around the world would get the same response. I suspect not many.
I don’t know about England but in Scotland the leaving age was raised to 16 in 1972. I left school then aged 16 but I could have left the previous year
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 03:45
That was my first thought on reading that nonsensical claim. Only a fool, or someone so steeped in spivery that such ‘sweetners’ are seen as the norm, would make such a public claim. It really is fascinating, the way he can get away with saying things like that without hearing Mr Plod knocking on his door, let alone someone in the MSM picking it up. I doubt even the Italian FA would delay investigating such a claim by one of their clubs’ CEOs.
The more I think of it, the more incredible it becomes. Who other than Charles Green could say ‘I offered money to the chairman of one SPL club to vote for us’, and get away with it? For that is what he said, and not just in effect. He may have used a few more words than ‘money’ but he would have to hand over money to buy the STs. Now we all know that it was a lie, at that time he definitely didn’t have the money to pay for 3000 bus tickets, let alone season tickets, but by making such a statement he is clearly bringing the game into disrepute. Bigotry claims, bribery claims, encouraging boycotts… when will anyone in authority sort this guy out?
thought this was interesting
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com
by james forrest
especially this part
“Let’s get the second myth out of the way, in relation to the first. That The Rangers Football Club was “relegated” from the SPL by a vote. It’s nonsense, and it’s proven nonsense.
For one thing, the club was not eligible for SPL membership! Please, do me a favour and read that line again. And when you have done that, please read this next one twice, and remember what it says.
They’re still not eligible for membership in Scotland’s top division, and it does not matter a damn what that division is calling itself.
You don’t read that fact in the papers, but I assure you it is true. It’s a little known fact, except to us football geeks, those who’ve researched the matter.
What it comes down to is simple; UEFA mandates that the top divisions in each country follow their own licensing criteria. The domestic licensing criteria is a separate thing. To be eligible to play in a division which send teams to European competition, you need three years membership of the national association, and those audited accounts.
NewCo Rangers is, effectively, banned from playing in our top flight.”
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
Regardless of what you think about the moronic element of the Rangers support, it is phenomenal that so many have come out to support their team in the 3rd division. And more than that, a 3rd division team that has no resemblance to Rangers teams of the past. I think the Rangers fans (the non-moronic ones) should be rightly proud. I don’t know how many football clubs around the world would get the same response. I suspect not many.
_______________________________________
From what I’ve been told from third division fans who have visited Ibrox this season, the ground is full of ‘moronic’ types who are present not necessarily to watch the team, but to have a massive ‘sash-fest’. Decent Rangers fans who I know as regulars from past seasons in the main are not going to Govan this season.
Wondering if others have the same thoughts on the make up of Green’s supporting base?
if you separated the political movement at TRFC from the football fans, you would be lucky to get 10,000 fans a week.
we hear from Doncaster and Regan that no new rangers would mean Armageddon. We hear that sky would not back scottish football without new rangers.
The lack of governance by Doncaster and Regan with CO in the background has done more damage to our game than sky ever could. Sky are culpable because they did not speak out during this who period of tv contract uncertainty. They allowed the myth that they would not continue with the tv contracts without new rangers to grow arms and legs instead of stating their position clearly. ‘We back Scottish football regardless of the teams that play in it.’
The new club calling itself rangers will find out its new eventually but it is likely to be a legal challenge or fifa because the people governing our game are more interested in keeping their heads down and picking up their huge salaries for doing nothing.
Neepheid
I would have expected the share issue income to be excluded, but based on wage and income figures in the public domain that leaves them running at a loss without the £22m.
So how is that loss to be covered if not from the share issue and if it is being used to cover running costs not covered by normal income why would the value not be made public.
I mean if their is really £22m in the kitty what is their to conceal?
It is an opportunity for the SFA to assure The Rangers support that they are looking after their interests by being as transparent as is required by the circumstances.
CG should leap at the chance to prove his honesty by providing full disclosure. None of his opponents will be able to use that info to outspend his club and put it at a disadvantage.
borussiabeefburg says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:06
Its an interesting observation. I tend to go to football with my kids and I won’t take them to Ibrox. I find it hard to believe there are 40-odd thousand morons though. There is a die-hard element of Orcs (the best I can think of to sum them up in one word) and you will never get rid of them. I know plenty of Rangers fans who have no interest in the sectarian nonsense – ordinary guys who by accident of birth are Rangers fans and their only interest is their club – and they are among those 37,000 season ticket holders.
I had heard that, largely, the old song book is gone. If this is true, I’m not sure if it will last. I hope it does, and that there will be a gradual and lasting change. Visiting fans might have had a different experience and, as borussiabeefburg says, it would be interesting to get some first hand accounts on what it’s like to visit Ibrox these days.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
I think the Rangers fans (the non-moronic ones) should be rightly proud. I don’t know how many football clubs around the world would get the same response. I suspect not many.
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The question I always ask is how many people in Scotland have a sympathy for Rangers? For fairly obvious demographic reasons I’d be willing to bet that if there’s 3 million football fans in Scotland, at least half of them have Rangers as their favourite team. To bring it back to basics for Celtic to get a 50K crowd and Rangers to get a 50K crowd requires a far bigger percentage of Celtic fans to get off their bum and put said bum on seat. This is always ignored in the sugar coated coverage of Rangers attendances.
To widen the argument, think of how many people, percentage wise, have to motivate themselves to go and watch other Scottish clubs. The deliberate ignorance of the Scottish media on this issue is a disgrace, but hardly surprising.
So to get back to your point – how many other clubs in the world enjoy such a huge advantage in their country in terms of a latent support? I suspect not many.
Neepheid
It is UEFA Licensing (applies to SPL clubs) that requires clubs to submit accounts for Group undertakings.
Auldheid and others – There never was £22M from the IPO. According to the prospectus, the placing shares were meant to raise £16.97M, which was reduced to £15M after costs (Page 4). Similarly the £5.2M raised by the public would be reduced by £500K in costs. i.e. total costs of the IPO were estimated at £2.5M (Page 10), thus the maximum amount raised by RIFC was £19.7M
Can someone correct this if possible ,I think it was a typo when reporting that when Charles said he left school at 15 did he mean he became a minor at that stage in life and not a miner.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
I appreciate your view point on “the rising” however, I do not share your view.
I agree that the core audience for the piece is the fans of the Club. However, it did not strike me as being a tribute to the fans. I believe that “the rising” is a propaganda piece – recycling old arguements that RFC did not die and that the Club has been victimised. The piece did acknowledge that without the support of the fans that the Club would have not survived. However, I am of the opinion that the main motive was to play to the gallaries and to tell people what they want to hear – all is well.
There is evidence emerging that the Club are facing some degree of financial difficulty. There is no evidence at this stage that would allow for the degree of that difficulty to be quantified.
If it transpires that the Club goes into administration then history would not judge “the rising” to have been a tribute to the fans – it is likely to be viewed as a deliberate attempt to keep the fans onside, pulling the wool over people’s eyes. If administration (or worse) transpires then in the final analysis “the rising” will have been an insult to the fans that have and continue to support their Club.
As ever, only time will tell.
upthehoops says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:42
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
I think the Rangers fans (the non-moronic ones) should be rightly proud. I don’t know how many football clubs around the world would get the same response. I suspect not many.
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The question I always ask is how many people in Scotland have a sympathy for Rangers? For fairly obvious demographic reasons I’d be willing to bet that if there’s 3 million football fans in Scotland, at least half of them have Rangers as their favourite team.
…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry upthehoops but your numbers are plain wrong. Half of football fans in Scotland have Rangers as their favourite team? Certainly up the East coast that is just plain rubbish. There are quite a few Celtic supporters around but not that many Rangers ones. There are a few for sure, but most people seem to be more likely to support their local teams, be that Dundee, Dundee United, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Hearts, Hibernian, Forfar Athletic or any of the other teams that ply their trade up this way.
Half of all Scottish football fans are Rangers fans?????
Their delusion beggars belief
easyjambo
Was it confirmed how IPO costs would be paid ?
Directly from funds raised in IPO or charged to the club ?
upthehoops says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:42
I’m not sure what you are getting at. Rangers historically have accounted for 25% of the attendance at football matches in scotland. It would be easy assume that at least 25% of fans in Scotland are Rangers fans. Half sounds like far too much and I refuse to believe that.
Do they have the advantage of a large fan base? Obviously. I made a comment about how commendable it is that so many fans are turning out to watch 3rd division football, and sub-standard football it is too. You can’t argue with the facts.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
3 13 Rate This
I watched “The Rising”. I thought it was a good piece and well put together. I expected whole load or WATP nonsense but thankfully it was a fairly balanced documentary on administration and beyond from a Rangers perspective. There was a bit of sabre rattling from Charles Green towards the end “they miss us, we don’t miss them” which was un-necessary. I would rather not have had to watch and listen to Jim Traynor. Overall though, very good.
It stuck me as more of a tribute to the fans than anything else. Regardless of what you think about the moronic element of the Rangers support, it is phenomenal that so many have come out to support their team in the 3rd division. And more than that, a 3rd division team that has no resemblance to Rangers teams of the past. I think the Rangers fans (the non-moronic ones) should be rightly proud. I don’t know how many football clubs around the world would get the same response. I suspect not many.
———-
beatipacificiscotia,
I haven’t watched it. Clever attempt to ‘monetize the fan base’ though, as CW would say! If only a fraction of those 500m supporters pay a quid to watch he’ll be rolling in it.
The support does seem very divided into the moronic/non-moronic as you say. Even on telly you can hear the dinosaurs singing about how their father’s rash was sore, or words to that effect. At the same time there appear to be many families introducing football to their kids, and quite a lot of youth. I’m sure a lot of people who perhaps only had a very peripheral interest in the club before now turn up either because of the drama, family associations, low ticket prices, or on freebies.
Getting back to the main theme, the day when the club works with the authorities to isolate and ban the politically motivated fanatics will be a good day for football governance. But that also takes a courageous media. I’ve no idea how many people listen in to Clyde SSB but as long as a programme like that deems certain subjects taboo on air the nonsense will go on.
chipsandblog says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:24
7 0 Rate This
We back Scottish football regardless of the teams that play in it.’
===================
Sky executives told Doncaster and Regan exactly that. It was only that they both had promised Green that he would be in the SPL, that they came out with those stories.
I was sent an e-mail by a SKY Exec at that time, stating that they had no intentions of pulling out of Scottish Football.
scottc says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 11:04
Half of football fans in Scotland have Rangers as their favourite team? Certainly up the East coast that is just plain rubbish.
——
Not sure where you are on the East coast, but the stretch from Fraserburgh and Peterhead across to Inverness has a disproportionate number of TRFC jersey-wearers and has had since I was small. One strolled into our office car park last week and proceeded to jack up in the corner.
Take a drive around Fraserburgh and note just how many cars have a personalised “RFC” number plate. Shocking.
All we can do now I think is watch and record.
The 22 million pounds claimed is clearly not there – RIFC has some cash , best estimates around 9 million – but as many have pointed out that money is for the benefit of the shareholders and not the club. TRFC is a separate private company palpably running at a loss – and with no obvious sources of income to make it profitable again within any foreseeable time frame.
Rangers fans have chosen to adopt this new club as Rangers and have also chosen the same path of blind loyalty and shutting out the noises they don’t like. The ending is thus inevitable.
No sympathy can or should be given to any if them. Those who are not vile and aggressively sectarian are too weak, or too deluded to merit our sympathies frankly.
No point even warning them as James Forrest has tried to do: best to merely observe and record.
On the SSB issue,its equivelant to whats happened to the food chain over the last 30 years,when football debates where first aired on the radio they where a must to tune into, a decent product,good honest bebate ,where you at the game caller,but where the food chain got the horsemeat,we the supporters got the horsesh#t,thanks clyde[sdale]
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 11:02
Fair enough, we will all take something different from it. The fans are clearly the target audience and there is an obvious commercial reason for this. Charging the fans to watch it just highlights this (I thought this was a bit cheeky though I suppose production costs, etc).
I watched that first Brechin game on the TV. I’m watching Rangers playing Brechin on BBC Alba with Gaelic commentary. When the ball got stuck on the hedge I think I wet myself, just a little bit. I’m sure many on here had the same reaction. You forget that for Rangers fans this was a victory, the end of uncertainty and almost losing their club.
What I liked about “The Rising” is that it steered away from propaganda for the most part, so I disagree with you there. I watched it expectating to hate it, but I didn’t. If you watch again you will notice that the vast majority of the documentary was historical information and footage, and various people talking about their recollections and how they felt at the time.
You may not agree with the selective use of historical information. You may not like the individuals involved or their views, but least their recollections and how they felt were honest.
iceman
The 22 million pounds claimed is clearly not there
———————————————————————————–
If it is clear, could you point me towards the evidence please.
There is obviously a question over the amount but I´ve yet to see clarity either way.
It is possible that CG left school at 15. I myself am 44 and left school in May at 15 after my exams. My 16th birthday wasn’t until July. I was extremely lucky that during Thatchers Britain I got an apprenticeship and started work before I turned 16. I had recieved my NI number in the post some months earlier. CG may have came away with a few crackers but this one is possible. Though I must admit I doubt if he was ever near a pit face.
fara1968 says:
Thumbs down for mentioning ‘lucky’ and ‘Thatcher’ and ‘pit face’ in same post!! 🙂
This is what the supporters were told last night
“Even though most of the info is out there, i thought I would write a mini report of the meeting:
Meeting with Derek Llambias, Chief Executive of Newcastle, spoke very well, sounds like exciting friendship between Rangers, Lambis and 5% shareholder in us, and owner of Sports direct, Mike Ashley.
Ashley gave go ahead to Green and Llambias to allow Rangers fans to have input into Renaming of the stadium, possibly like….Sports Direct Ibrox Stadium,
Rangers fans in attendance seemed positive on name change and would accept on basis, Ibrox was still included in the name. No monies mentioned, but obviously the higher league we are in the more money we would make.
a second sponsor is in talks ( my theory Emirates due to commonwealth games sponsorship !! only my opinion though ) but would make sense going with Sports drect, as we are building a big relationship with them on the merchandising etc….. very exciting in my eyes, so defo makes sense to promote sports direct. The branding around the stadium would be very eye catching but not turned into a eyesore. possible signage above the broomloan was muted instead of Family stand sign…….which is an eyesore anyhow.
Murray Park looking to be renamed, again fans can have big say in, but interestingly MP is in flight path to Glasgow Airport so a roof sponsor my be an idea in attracting names like Easy Jet etc…. could that involve renaming ???
Rangers merchanising all over the world, looks very exciting and will dramtically increase our turnover thru time. Stores in Glasgow Airport right beside the Celtic shop will open within weeks, with a store in Belfast also opening. World wide distribution high on there agendas now !! after seeing demand
1 floor of Edmiston House will be turned into a Rangers Museum !!!! 1 floor being a cAFE /bAR and 1 FLOOR Being a Large Superstore comprising the building. The architects are in just now.
This is a money making complex for Rangers, wont be a free museum, and Rangers tours etc taking place, will become a full day event and in my opinion an incredible exciting project !!
The Newcastle connection will be something that is going to be exciting i reckon. Players like fraser foster, a player at st.mirren etc, would come thru Rangers, with Loaned out players and possibly signing players moving on. Could it be possible Newcastle will cancel a couple of contracts of their players to sign for Rngers in September ??
We seem to be building connections with teams all over the place, Austrailia is it Mariners ? and Teams in America thru Claudio reyna, plus friendships in Italy and beyond. LA Galaxy are planning a Tournament, with Rangers, Newcastle and 1 other team in preseason….. almost definate USA will be in preseason.
CG went to EC association, sat at table with Juve, Milan and Lazio and all of which could not believe the sanctions put on Rangers, and transfer embargo, Juve were looking for a training ground !! !………. Will Wales be looking for a training ground LOL ?
CG Still exploring cross border leagues ….becoming big topic of conversation across the globe………… Intimated to Derek Llambias that Newcastle will never see a trophy room or fan base like ours hahaha….
Title stripping case…. possibly hear something on the 28th of this month, we will vigourously fight any attempt to strip us of titles…… The SFL had no intention of striipping us of League cups and SFA not of Scottish cups, so this SPL kangaroo court just a joke.
Kit Sponsor and Kit manufacturer will be announced within days, defo within week, that was annouced by Brian stockridge, with Charles green offering his notice, if this wasnt met haha….. again all the excitement around this, i reckon going to be big….
Tom English on Scotland tonight last night questioned the IPO and was in desparation mode to speak to charles green, but CG thinks he is not very bright as all information on IPO is available at London Stock exchange, and Tom English wont be gettin any desired interview.
Rangers Accounts will be published very shortly. within 2 weeks i think was mooted.
THE TRAITORS…….NAMELY GUYS LIKE STEVEN DAVIS……..C G said he will NEVER return to this club as they denied Rangers of money we needed to start again. Only the fact the Southampton board, whom charles green couldnt speak highly enough, had the honor of paying Rangers for Davis, and this had nothing to do with our so called Captain.
He along with the other 7 traitors will not be welcome to Ibrox. We have to pray that Southampton stay in the EPL as Rangers will get more money for Davis is they avoid relegation.
FINALLY Charles Green had words to say on Ally. We should be 100 % behind Ally, No new manager of any club in the world ever, has had to go thru what he has gone thru. From managing with Craig whyte as the chairman, destroying the club, Then all the traitors leaving.
Starting pre season no games, 21 players on the books with 8 of them the Traitors…… leaving him to register Andy Little as a trialist against Brechin to get a team on the park. The man breathes Rangers and has had no tools or anything to help him in his start of being Rangers manager, and CG backs him 100 % over the years to get Rangers back to the top, and that even when we are spewing at the performances ….Ally mccoist is despairing…… and will with the right backing from Rangers fans and board, build a team that will get us to the top !!!! THE ADMIRATION FOR MCCOIST WAS AMAZING TO SEE, AND WE SHOULD ALL BE VERY PROUD OF OUR GREAT MANAGER.
I apologise in advance for any spelling or grammer, i am not a blogger just simply getting the info out to RM, as i said most of it all over the net, but thought i would throw my interpretation to the meeting in there !! ”
Wonder how many of those promises will come to pass?
chipsandblog says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:16
27 0 i
Rate This
if you separated the political movement at TRFC from the football fans, you would be lucky to get 10,000 fans a week.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never a truer word written.
This is the bedrock.
But no longer a secure foundation
Was it ever.
No longer dominant.
No future, just the history, fading fast.
Now just a millstone round society’s neck.
And UK Plc is weary of it.
Sick of it.
Will no longer tolerate it.
The writing’s on the wall.
There will be no ‘Rising’.
What we see is only a ghost.
A figment of those who can’t accept.
Pretending to be ‘alive & kicking’.
True, for a little while yet .
But soon to be excorcised.
Then dispelled.
Gone.
SPIERS ON SATURDAY ON GREEN
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/promises-promises-but-can-green-deliver-on-his-key-pledges.20243324
Spiers today wites of four pledges made by Green but his article is poorly researched and out of date.
1) Ibrox upgrade pledge. I won’t dwell on this as I think Spiers misses the all-important point by not factoring-in or even mentioning the amount of the net flotation proceeds which will be required to meet running costs.
Only when that is known will it be possible to decide the element of moonbeams involved in promises of spending a minimum of £9 million in refurbishing Ibrox and £10 million for Ally which Spiers doesn’t mention – I would have thought that might be a pledge that fans would be very interested in.
2) Champions League Football – Spiers talks of this being possibly up to 7 years away and repeats Charlie’s quote: “I’m not leaving here until I hear the Champions League music blaring out across Ibrox.”
But Spiers fails to mention that Charlie, 59, has twice altered his Ibrox tenure since that statement. Firstly he said he was staying till he was 70 and just recently has extended that to 75. So does that mean Charlie doesn’t anticipate hearing Zadok the Priest for 16 years? Please keep up with the story Spiers.
3) The 33% cap on players wages against turnover. I believe that figure was further broken down before the flotation to be 26% of first team wages against turnover. There is also no mention of how things would be if those who walked away had stayed and in a supposedly serious piece that is a serious omission as is the failure to question how this cap could posibly be adhered to if Rangers moved to England or to a cross-border league.
4) Spiers misses the latest move by Dickson to Rangers fan sites telling them to no longer post stories from the official Rangers FC site but only to post links as the practice is costing money in ad revenue. I think this could be a really important cornerstone of the Rangers media strategy.
Get the fans from all the myriad of smaller sites onto the offishal one. It raises money for the club and will correspondingly decrease that going to the fan sites as ‘stickiness’ drops. The next step is the fans participaating on official club message boards rather than fan ones.
This also removes the power and financial muscle of the various disparate Rangers’ fan sites and ensures that the followers receive the one true line. I think Spiers also misses an important point about the number of ‘hits’ on the variou sites. How many are unique users and how many are just clicking through to generate ad revenue. There are all sorts of other issues such as ‘stickines’ and volume & value of sales made and the same users being double and triple counted or even more. It’s a complex area which seems beyond your ken Graham.
Possibly the thing of most interest in the space-filling article by Spier is his comment that he finds Green: ‘reasonably honest’. What exactly do you mean by that Graham?
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
8 44 Rate This
I’ve noticed in the past that anything perceived as positive about Rangers is greeted with a host of TDs. I wrote a comment which was reasonably complimentary about “The Rising”. Lets be honest, I’m sure you would not have been surprised if it was much worse. It was better than expected. The production quality was good. It is a reasonably balanced piece when you consider what it is.
I gave my honest opinion. Do people object to honest opinion? Do they object that I should hold that opinion? Do they disagree with my interpretation of the piece? A couple of people have responded to disagree and have said why, which is what I would expect from adults who are able to express opinions. If you object to something I say then I’m happy to hear a reasoned opposing argument. If anyone has watched it and think I’m talking crap, I respect your honestly held belief.
I have no respect for people who are incapable of reasoned and individual thought. I mentioned the Rangers morons in my comments. I would have a good bet that some of the people who gave me TD haven’t even watched the documentary, they won’t watch it because it is T’Rangers. To those, it seems there are Rangers-hating morons too and they read these pages. Try to unplug the Rangers hate and plug your brains back in.
easyJambo says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:48
Cheers. I’ll take that into account but the value needs to be nearer £9m and untouchable for it to be a real problem.
My point is that the SFA through the licensing process have a duty to the game to protect it from the consequences of a club operating beyond its means.
Given that The Rangers can only have been granted a licence for this season on projections, the SFA have a duty to compare those projections with reality since and assure everyone that they are on track and the club is being run sustainably. I read on KDS that they want Alexander to take a wage cut now which suggests along with the winding up order that cash flow needs close management.
The current licencing round provides the SFA with that opportunity to reassure the game but maybe the problem is that if the rules were applied diligently there would not be enough clubs with a licence left to form one league!
While I think it is NOT true that half of football fans in Scotland support Rangers, I nonetheless suggest that FAR more than 50% of them would have had a preference for the Govan side in those long gone days when the two Glasgow rivals refought ancient battles.
This was a game in which very few Scots were neutral.
If only for the day, my experience would tell me that the Ibrox side would have been far more widely favoured than their East-end neighbours.
Proves nothing.
Just one man’s opinion.
angus1983 says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 12:05
Re Fraserburgh, jack(ing) up and car parks.
Was the indivudial concerned (a) attempting to repair a motor vehicle (b) steal the wheels off of a motor vehicle (c) partake in intravenous drug use or (c) none of the above? 🙂
I have spent many a year in that neck of the woods – lots of RFC fans apeared to emerge in the Souness years . From memory there was a strong arab contingent also (mostly in Fraserburgh)
Auldheid
Have they actually been granted a National Club License?
I was under the impression that sevco scotland was given RFC’s full SFA membership and associate membership of the SFL.
Is there any way of complaining to FIFA over the SFA transferring a membership?
Auldheid
Where does the 9M figure come from and what is there to back it up ?
easyJambo says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:48
I wasn’t sure myself who would be paying the IPO costs. I assume these would be absorbed by Rangers International since it was there flotation. TRFC are wholy owned by RIFC but are a separate entity. TRFC would not be responsible for paying this.
Here’s an interesting question, and apologies if it has already been asked and answered. The £400K debt that has been talked about so much is for fundraising not related to IPO or pre-IPO. I assume therefore that it was related to the initial investment required to buy the Rangers assets. TRFC did not exist at this time, so why should they pay the bill? Maybe someone in the Rangers finance team got up on their hind legs and said “that’s nothing to do with us”. And the would be right.
jean7brodie says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 12:49
I don’t know why you said that, Jean. I always thought Thatcher was lucky, and had a pit-face 🙂
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:03
6 3 Rate This
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
8 44 Rate This
I’ve noticed in the past that anything perceived as positive about Rangers is greeted with a host of TDs …
———-
Indeed, an absurd amount of TDs for what were reasonable posts. I don’t usually pay attention either way to the TU/TD thing but did notice the mass disapproval of your posts. Can only assume that the TDs were for the reasons you mention, and that is rather disappointing.
Very good discussion on Aff the Ba right now otherwise …
Not wanting to open old wounds but in view of Charlie’s recent comments regarding a charity game for gazza does anyone know where the money went from the legends charity match admittedly that involved the previous tenants of ibrox and not the shiny happy people new club we all enjoy now but has Charlie recieved his share from the humping of tannadice and has anyone witnessed him handing out the cheque surely a publicity opportunity he couldn’t pass up.lets hope if their is a match the proceeds go to charities that help those in the community suffering from addiction and I hope gazza finds a way out from the lonely place he finds himself in.
fara1968 says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 12:36
It is possible that CG left school at 15. I myself am 44 and left school in May at 15 after my exams. My 16th birthday wasn’t until July. I was extremely lucky that during Thatchers Britain I got an apprenticeship and started work before I turned 16. I had recieved my NI number in the post some months earlier. CG may have came away with a few crackers but this one is possible. Though I must admit I doubt if he was ever near a pit face.
____________
I left school at 15 in 1960. My father was a miner and I remember well his joy at me gaining an engineering pre-apprenticeship away from the mining industry. By and large, I have nothing but respect and fondness for mining folk, be they green, black or white and I share a kinship with folk from mining communities who looked underground and decided it wasn’t the life for them. My dad made sure all his sons had the experience of entering a mine shaft and rejoiced at alternative career choices they made. Having said that, it’s not Mr Green’s mining pedigree that interests me – or what age he was when he left school but his apparent avoidance of the question “What school did you go to?” I guess the question was asked for a reason, I just can’t imagine why he didn’t answer it! Quite honestly, it’s of no interest to me what school he went to, I’m more interested in why he dummied the pass!
Lord Wobbly says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 07:37
“Moneterising” the online market is a challenge no football business has mastered. The whole point about the web sites that attract the numbers mentioned (even allowing for double/treble counting) is that they are FREE. Celtic TV has to compete with “free” streams for example, thus reducing revenue.
It is hard to compete with nothing and the only way to do it is for the support base to buy into the concept that by using official sites only they are all contributing to the well being of their club, particularly those folk who cannot afford to go and watch all games.
Perhaps the seige mentality will enable this idea to take hold quicker at Ibrox than elsewhere but I reckon ol Charlie is just piggybacking on the club membership scheme suggested here
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=383:after-the-ball&catid=45:season-2010-2011&Itemid=80
including a communications strata that Celtic have explored but not taken forward because the realisation of the interdependence of all supporters on each other, no matter how they provide that support, has not yet reached the point when they see themselves as one contributing body as opposed to distinct match attending and non match attending groups.That is how the clubs view us too.
I reckon though that technolgy will change all that and a city will only need one large capacity stadium for Internationals and CL games on a sharing basis with clubs playing at smaller stadia where a rump of supporters turn up to fill the stadium and watch live and the rest watch remotely BUT all pay the same price to watch meaning online prices rise and attending prices fall.
Ten years away at least but good luck to Charlie as he chances his arm.
kilbowiekelt says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:11
While I think it is NOT true that half of football fans in Scotland support Rangers, I nonetheless suggest that FAR more than 50% of them would have had a preference for the Govan side in those long gone days when the two Glasgow rivals refought ancient battles.
This was a game in which very few Scots were neutral.
If only for the day, my experience would tell me that the Ibrox side would have been far more widely favoured than their East-end neighbours.
Proves nothing.
Just one man’s opinion
===================
Up until last year’s fans revolt I would have agreed with you and still do to a certain extent. I had a discussion with a St Mirren fan just after administration in February. His view was that “the job” was only half done. The rest of Scottish football fans would like us to go the same way as RFC(IL). Of that I have no doubt.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:50
I reckon though that technolgy will change all that and a city will only need one large capacity stadium for Internationals and CL games on a sharing basis with clubs playing at smaller stadia where a rump of supporters turn up to fill the stadium and watch live and the rest watch remotely BUT all pay the same price to watch meaning online prices rise and attending prices fall.
————————————
That’s an interesting thought
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:03
100% behind you on that one, scotia.
Lurker – the blue-shirted gentleman was indeed a bit close to my own car for comfort, but it became obvious on rolling up his left sleeve and producing a bit of tin foil whilst holding a syringe between his teeth that his intentions were not automotive.
This within ten feet of our window. I sauntered towards the door but he was gone by the time I got there. Apparently he clocked me and vaulted the wall.
A few Arabs to be found in the Broch, right enough, but most of the fishermen, fish salesmen/buyers and so on are true blue. Some of the boats have RFC logos painted on them. It must pain them to have to use the standard green fishing nets. 🙂
The North East fishing industry, of course, has been almost as corrupt as some other organisations we may think of …
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/black-fish-skippers-fined-over-1117703
(photos in that piece are taken at Fresh Catch in Peterhead, not Shetland. They had a twin pipe system set up so that fish piped from the quayside could either go over the legally required weighing belt, or avoid it completely. It was found completely by accident during a routine inspection.)
kilbowiekelt says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:11
As a devout non-OF(now defunct) fan I can honestly say that, on the odd occassion when the result of an OF match was of any interest to me, I always wanted the side running away with the league to lose. I have to admit that the joy of the winning sides fans gave me no pleasure, but the pain of the losers did! Some might not understand that, but it’s exactly the same here in England, where everyone hates Manchester United – and love to see them fail (well those who don’t support them do). I suppose it’s a case of while moderate success can be attractive, extreme success can be boring and thoroughly disheartening for others.
Strangely, now that the OF no longer exists, I only enjoy Celtic’s defeats when they are handed out by Hearts 😉 (OK, I know, it hasn’t happened yet), though it was pleasing that they didn’t immediately run away with the league, beating all and sundry, and, I feel, it is in the best interests of Scottish football that they suffer a few more defeats before the end of the season.
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 13:56
i’ve been lucky enough to be away all winter in Spain and am just about to watch the Celtic game on Celtic TV.
I opted to use the Overseas Season Book as I could afford a little bit extra and it lets a supporter at home use my seat but allows me up to attend 4 games when I’m home. See
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=962:the-overseas-season-book-scheme-not-just-an-emotional-commitment&catid=49:season-2012-2013&Itemid=85
but that cost £300 lets me see every game home and way and cup games at cost of around £7.50 a game. A normal Celtic TV subscription is around £140 which is £3.50 a game and compare that to a SB to wach 19 home games (plus travel costs) of around £28 and you can see why the balance needs to change if viewers are going to have a team to watch.
However as I said minds need to change first.
Further to the penalty box shenanigans at Celts v Juve. A few weeks ago Fellaini of Everton was banned for 2 games for headbutting Stoke defender Shawcross at a corner kick when said player was wrestling the forward before the ball was in play. If ex-referee S. Dougal is correct that no offence has taken place as the ball was not in play, why was the player banned when the corner kick had not been taken? Just wondering.
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 08:30
I don’t think the poster has anything specific. Like most
of us, there comes a time when the drip-drip of info tips the balance from
thinking there’s a con, on to knowing there’s a con, and he’s just going to
wait for the craven apologists in the Scottish Media to stop worrying about
their windows and tell us the REAL story. If you were standing in the snug
bar with all these cowards they’d all be saying” “well, I’ve known since
May last year but for legal reasons, blah blah blah……
Just do your job or hand in your NUJ card.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 08:38
If you look at the post below it says that this particular company are probably
the land-bank scam mob – not the Willow mentioned in association with the
share sale.
+ Parson Street Bhoy
Thanks for work on the night-shift, boys. Always appreciated.
ekt1m says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 14:24
Players can be cautioned and sent off anytime during a game, even during half-time and after the final whistle. The issue is on penalties – they can only be awarded if the ball is actively in play (ie, not a dead ball situation).
Dreddybhoy 12.52
C’monn ,the super Casino where is the mention of the super Casino.
Dreddybhoy
Apologies ,I have just been informed it was actualy soup or a casino.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:55
I watched “The Rising”. I thought it was a good piece and well put together.
——————————————————————————————————–
It was quite slick, bps. Any producer/director credits? I didn’t see any.
Some football journos still have a love for the game. Jim Spence is on a day off. How’s he spending it? Commentating by tweet on a Junior Cup tie!
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 14:42
I watched “The Rising”. I thought it was a good piece and well put together.
——————————————————————————————————–
It was quite slick, bps. Any producer/director credits? I didn’t see any.
———————————————
It wasn’t wee Lenny Riefenstahl was it?
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 14:55
———————————————————————
Lenni, dear bhoy. I think even she would have blushed at that piece of unashamed
propaganda!
upthehoops says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 10:42
The question I always ask is how many people in Scotland have a sympathy for Rangers? For fairly obvious demographic reasons I’d be willing to bet that if there’s 3 million football fans in Scotland, at least half of them have Rangers as their favourite team. To bring it back to basics for Celtic to get a 50K crowd and Rangers to get a 50K crowd requires a far bigger percentage of Celtic fans to get off their bum and put said bum on seat. This is always ignored in the sugar coated coverage of Rangers attendances.
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if you have any evidence for this UTH, forward your evidence to Jim Traynor and Chuck Green, cos this exactly the myth they are peddling……… to any sucker who will listen 😉
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 15:00
Lenni, dear bhoy. I think even she would have blushed at that piece of unashamed
propaganda
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Lenny was my attempt to avoid Godwin’s Law…that’s what I get for trying to have my cake and eat it! lol
slimshady61 says:
Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 09:35
Normally on time really means “sometimes late”
Reasonably accurate really means “makes mistakes”
Reasonably honest is simply a euphemistic way of saying “tells lies”
I’m quite sure Mr Spiers knew exactly what he was saying.