The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
I do not think they have immense power, otherwise, they would have been able to find a buyer and not be liquidated.
they have no power, the issue is that our football authorities do not have any leadership skills and lack the courage to apply the rules without fear or favour. ironically that was a Regan quip about 2 years ago.
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The cowardice and ineptitude of the administrators is beyond reasonable argument, as is the power and influence of the Govan team in Scottish fooball.
shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 15:39
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Ok the Ronnie O’Sullivan analogy was a bit tongue in cheek but lets face it, the point of wild cards is for entertainment and revenue purposes – both of which are vital to sports including Scottish Football
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Are you seriously suggesting that for “entertainment and revenue purposes” Rangers should be allowed to waltz back into the top tier?
Oh, and snooker is not a sport no matter how much you dress it up. It’s a glorified parlour game that was used by the cigarette companies to promote their products when all other advertising avenues were being closed.
Arabest
That’s a worry then that such academics aren’t concerned at the widespread establishment corruption at play here.
Being Trotskyites, they’re maybe comfortable with it though ….!
arabest1 says: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 15:59
I concur with your views on apathy, but I’d probably describe it more as inertia. Most fans are loyal to their club and have little interest in the finances and politics of the game until it hits their own club.
I have similar experiences with my circle of friend, where I am the only one who has taken a direct interest in RTC and TSFM. My fiends are aware of my interest and will ask me from time to time if there is anything new going on, but that is as far as it goes.
My group comprises an ever dwindling band of fans who actually go to matches, with a number content to pick just a few games, or satisfy themselves with watching games on TV.
I’m afraid that is the trend I’ve seen, probably since the mid nineties, when it became apparent that increasing spending by the “diddy” clubs still had no affect on the level of their success, but has left them floundering with either a lot of legacy debt, or alternatively debt free but with much reduced spending.
I can’t really see anything that will change that trend in the short to medium term and I think we will continue to see an erosion of overall attendances regardless of what division TRFC is in or whatever league structure is implemented.
I have mentioned before IMO Sevco are legally corrupt and the events of LNS verdict confirms my fears.
NO other club would be favoured in this way. If our clubs do not stand against this farce then fans will walk away.
Over the last say 12 years I have followed my team home and away and have spent roughly in the region of upwards of £15,000 in as we suspected and now know a corrupt game.
The threat of not buying SB’s worked in the summer, it is the ONLY method I can personally vent my feelings effectively.
This action worked in the summer and believe me it will work again. Money talks.
The silence from all clubs is frightening (apart from Celtic). It is great to here from a couple of D. Utd fans on this forum who are not pleased with Mr Thompson’s lets draw a line approach.
All fans should demand their club to make a statement.
I do not want to spend another penny in this corrupt game until this decision is challenged.
The only line I want to see is the line where Campbell Ogilvie, Mr Regan and Mr Doncater stand in when signing on the dole. If that happen then sporting integrity will draw the fans back to football.
tomtomaswell on Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:07
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shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 15:39
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Ok the Ronnie O’Sullivan analogy was a bit tongue in cheek but lets face it, the point of wild cards is for entertainment and revenue purposes – both of which are vital to sports including Scottish Football
======================================
Are you seriously suggesting that for “entertainment and revenue purposes” Rangers should be allowed to waltz back into the top tier?
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Just trying to bring some perspective to some people’s unrealistic and idealistic views on Scottish football.
A game of football might be a sport but the teams are essentially two businesses competing with a goal to be successful, make money and survive. A bit like every other company!
So, no, I don’t think they should waltz back into the SPL but spare me the accusations about sporting integrity when clubs even remotely suggest moving on from all this.
jimlarkin says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 12:44
As a Celtic supporter I can’t help but wonder who I would be supporting today, if anyone, if my grandparents and parents had walked away from supporting Celtic when the victimisation of the club and its supporters was virtually absolute and led by the Scottish Establishment.
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I honestly dont think very many season ticket holders will walk away if The Rangers are fast tracked and the number who do will be compensated by others who might be encouraged back because they lived for those games.
Based on even this blog we had a hundred odd thumbs up/down regards walking away, thats out of maybe 3 or 4 thousand readers, most of whom may not even be season ticket or regular attenders anyway.
I now stay abroad, as do many on here and my contribution now is mainly merchandise for my family.
Now, I know this is not a Celtic site however my opinion of how it will effect MY club is there would be a bit of noise and bluster amongst some and then a big push on season ticket sales on the back of the rebirth of the “Old Firm” game.
Celtic park this season has had nowhere near even the 42k season ticket holders at most games as everyone knows the league was won before a ball was even kicked.
This is going to be the situation for ever now unless another club emerges to challenge and based on the strength of all other clubs in the SPL that is very unlikely.
Crowds along with sponsorship and hospitality for Celtic are going to get smaller and smaller and their income from this season on will start to drop considerably unless there is a reason for fans to want to attend in big numbers again.
Does anyone want to take part in a league competition year after year when you know you will win the title before the season even starts?
rougvielovesthejungle says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:12
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Arabest
That’s a worry then that such academics aren’t concerned at the widespread establishment corruption at play here.
Being Trotskyites, they’re maybe comfortable with it though …
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I suspect your second point is on the money 😉
easyJambo, perhaps it is all about the TV, Jim McLean loathed TV coverage and constantly warned it would kill the game, and I agree, can’t see how it will change with its current trajectory of corruption and deceit.
A few thoughts . Apologies as they have probably been covered but I’ve been offline for a wee bit.
On the LNS commission.
1. Why was the evidence given by S. Bryson not subject to investigation?
2. Why was S. Bryson allowed in the room given the appeals process?
3. Why despite highlighting 10+yrs of cheating was the penalty so unprecedentedly low?
On the Authorities reaction.
1. Why has no one from UEFA stated their disapproval given they are the ultimate governing body?
2. Why has no one else from the FA pointed out the in accuracy of the evidence given precedent?
On the Clubs.
1. Why has no spokesman from another club spoken out regards the FA Registration offices stance that retrospective punishment cannot be taken merely because the failure to disclose was not discovered prior to the games in question?
2. Why has no one from a previously punished club argued against the blatant bias given historic punishments given in retrospect.
3. Why has the SPL Board, on which my club has representation, not spoken out immediately regards their concern on the findings and the evidence put forward by “expert” witness?
On the fans.
1. It is apparent that 1872 fans feel totally vindicated and victimised regardless of the fact their club and its board have repeatedly been found guilty of cheating both sporting and social bodies.
2. It is apparent that the vast majority of fans of other clubs are repulsed by the collusion evident in various findings and the inherent signal to the 2012 club that it is too big to fail.
3. How do we as fans bring about change without hurting our own clubs. I say this in the belief that my own and other clubs are way too quiet in their public statements. There was a time for silence and allowing judicial process, that is now fast disappearing and if no official appeal by the SPL gone.
It is at this point no longer a sport in Scotland, it is a business. A distasteful business.
The decisions of Hodge, FTT, LNS and football governance are disgraceful, because they pay no regard to the blindingly obvious reason why well-resourced football clubs constantly win things……. lots of money placed into the right hands of other clubs to buy their best players and into players’ hands to make sure they are very contented with their lot. The principal Italian, Spanish, English, often German and now French and Russian clubs put out big bucks solely to gain an advantage on the field. It is much the same in other sports. Rangers FC did the exact same, albeit without an ounce of intelligence….with money that was not theirs to spend. For these legal types to have disregarded the blatantly obvious does nothing but make a stink rise from the fetid, corrupt tack they have taken with regard Rangers FC’s rule breaking. Quite simply, these decisions have legalised fraud.
I do not believe for one second that these people were unaware of the heart of the issue…… it was not a ‘Who are the Beatles?’ swamp of ignorance in which they operated. The obvious course to take was marginalised into being unthinkable and unpalatable and instead we received just about the most convoluted nonsense handed to us that anyone could have produced .
It is with the deepest of regret and sadness that my sixty two years of going to matches from the early fifties until now have ended with the LNS decision. Not another penny of my cash will find its way into Scottish football, until something is done about Rangers FC’s wrongdoings and the evil influence they have over the game is addressed. However, I am not holding my breath.
shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:31
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tomtomaswell on Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:07
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shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 15:39
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Ok the Ronnie O’Sullivan analogy was a bit tongue in cheek but lets face it, the point of wild cards is for entertainment and revenue purposes – both of which are vital to sports including Scottish Football
======================================
Are you seriously suggesting that for “entertainment and revenue purposes” Rangers should be allowed to waltz back into the top tier?
——–
Just trying to bring some perspective to some people’s unrealistic and idealistic views on Scottish football.
A game of football might be a sport but the teams are essentially two businesses competing with a goal to be successful, make money and survive. A bit like every other company!
So, no, I don’t think they should waltz back into the SPL but spare me the accusations about sporting integrity when clubs even remotely suggest moving on from all this
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Ok, I understand where you’re coming from. Yes, unfortunately football is now, more than ever, all about who can spend the most money in search of that elusive piece of silverware and the glory that attaches itself to it. I guess that’s what professional football has always been about if we’re honest about it.
Please allow us non Rangers fans to feel raw about the decisions that have been made over the past 12 months. When we’re bleating on about sporting integrity, or whatever term we use, the plain fact is that we all feel cheated and let down by those who are supposed to be looking after our interests. Sporting integrity, financial doping, tax evasion/avoidance, clever accounting call it what you want. The dice was loaded.
onceabhoy says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:34
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This post is incredible and I have to answer some of your questions:
1. Why was the evidence given by S. Bryson not subject to investigation? – The SPL/SFA don’t believe the commission was corrupt and were happy to accept the outcome of the independently led commission that they paid for.
2. Why was S. Bryson allowed in the room given the appeals process? What? An SFA employee shouldn’t be allowed to give evidence at their enquiry?
3. Why despite highlighting 10+yrs of cheating was the penalty so unprecedentedly low? – 10 years of cheating was NOT highlighted? It was confirmed that they did NOT cheat.
1. Why has no one from UEFA stated their disapproval given they are the ultimate governing body? – You want UEFA to state their disapproval of LNS’s independant commission? Brilliant!
2. Why has no one else from the FA pointed out the in accuracy of the evidence given precedent? – You want the SFA to question the accuracy of LNS’s report? Once again, brilliant!
1. It is apparent that 1872 fans feel totally vindicated and victimised regardless of the fact their club and its board have repeatedly been found guilty of cheating both sporting and social bodies.
They haven’t been found guilty of cheating?
2. It is apparent that the vast majority of fans of other clubs are repulsed by the collusion evident in various findings and the inherent signal to the 2012 club that it is too big to fail.
Oops, this isn’t a question!
3. How do we as fans bring about change without hurting our own clubs. I say this in the belief that my own and other clubs are way too quiet in their public statements. There was a time for silence and allowing judicial process, that is now fast disappearing and if no official appeal by the SPL gone.
???
It is at this point no longer a sport in Scotland, it is a business. A distasteful business.
Correct, football clubs ARE businesses.
a wee bit of something ………..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcObG1JllBk
Shield 2012,
says football clubs are businesses. I would agree with you. Lord Nimmo Smith however as I understand it defines them as assets of the undertaking operator, or something equally obfuscatory.
“You’ve done it all
You’ve broken every code
And pulled the rebel to the floor
You’ve spoilt the game
No matter what you say
For only metal, what a bore
Blue eyes, blue eyes
How can you tell so many lies?
Come up and see me, make me smile
I’ll do what you want, running wild
There’s nothing left
All is gone and run away
Maybe you’ll tarry for a while
It’s just a test
A game for us to play
Win or lose, it’s hard to smile
Resist, resist
It’s from yourself you’ll have to hide
Come up and see me to make me smile
I’ll do what you want, running wild
There ain’t no more
You’ve taken everything
From my belief in Mother Earth
Can you ignore my faith in everything?
‘Cos I know what faith is
And what it’s worth
Away, away
And don’t say maybe you’ll try
To come up and see me, make me smile
I’ll do what you want, just running wild”
great minds … maybe we ,ll meet in Bishopbriggs …Rileys is best …
wolfman2011 (@CWolfman2011) says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 17:23
onceabhoy says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:34
How do we as fans bring about change without hurting our own clubs. I say this in the belief that my own and other clubs are way too quiet in their public statements. There was a time for silence and allowing judicial process, that is now fast disappearing and if no official appeal by the SPL gone.
=================================================================
We have a stark choice. We either continue to support our clubs in the knowledge that a successful Rangers team is the priority of the authorities, or we stop going and as you say, simply hurt our clubs.
The amazing thing is that despite everything that has been done to support the new Rangers, when they arrive in the top league we will be expected to believe there will be no bias towards them. Let’s face it, if you can get a bet on Rangers winning the top division in their first season it’s a certainty. Nothing less will be tolerated.
In one respect, I think that fans of ALL clubs do want to ‘move on’ – because a lot of us are getting ‘fatigued’ wrt RFC/TRFC and all their related woes over the last couple of years.
The question of course though is: “Move on in which direction ?”
Simply trying to carry on as before is not an option for many, based on what we have witnessed -especially wrt the SFA since the summer.
However, there is no apparent will amongst the football administrations to learn from this experience and promote change – or to even start actively listening to their customers.
The clubs themselves don’t seem too keen on driving any change at this point either.
IMO, the only potential catalyst for positive and welcome change, in the short to medium-term, is if TRFC goes bust.
Then the choices could be there again: repeat the mistakes of last summer, or apply the rules and also actively monitor/challenge the behaviour of any ‘new/newco’ whilst it has to satisfy a lengthy, conditional membership.
Shield2012,
Old Rangers were found guilty of the charge of 3rd party payments.
Had they disclosed fully, these third party payments would have deemed the specified players ineligible at the time. Thus, by non-disclosure, they got away with fielding players who would have been deemed ineligible.
It is an unfair advantage on the field of play if one side can get away with fielding ineligible players and the other cant.
upthehoops says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 17:35
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onceabhoy says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:34
How do we as fans bring about change without hurting our own clubs. I say this in the belief that my own and other clubs are way too quiet in their public statements. There was a time for silence and allowing judicial process, that is now fast disappearing and if no official appeal by the SPL gone.
=================================================================
We have a stark choice. We either continue to support our clubs in the knowledge that a successful Rangers team is the priority of the authorities, or we stop going and as you say, simply hurt our clubs.
The amazing thing is that despite everything that has been done to support the new Rangers, when they arrive in the top league we will be expected to believe there will be no bias towards them. Let’s face it, if you can get a bet on Rangers winning the top division in their first season it’s a certainty. Nothing less will be tolerated.
===================
The way I see it there is not a lot the fans can do other than lobby their club to get together with the other SPL clubs and to exclude Sevco FC from competitive football in Scotland
shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:57
……………………………………
Need to correct you…the inquiry was commissioned by the SPL not the SFA….and yes I am somewhat surprised that knowing the SFA would be the appellant body they were asked to provide opinion/guidance on anything to do with the inquiry.
Cheating was not the word used….how would you define deliberatly circumventing/avoiding complying with the rules over a period covering 10 years?…
Expecting the SFA to question anything regarding SEVCO is in itself a farce…however they did indirectly comment regards the findings of LNS inquiry….the same inquiry they gave guidance on?…strange that!
LNS report did find them guilty. the FTT did confirm the acceptance of unpaid tax against those players whose side letters were discovered….the same letters the club refused to provide…yet LNS confirmed their guilt in more than those players ‘caught’ by the side letters…
You may define that as something else…something you can stomach…however it is and always will be cheating…you are clearly uncofortable with the reference…and who wouldn’t be…but the fact is they cheated..on an industrial scale…
Football clubs ‘ARE’ a business and as such should be subject to the same laws of the land as anyone else….as soon as we believe they are exempt and the authorities confirm this by pushing them beyond accountablity within football then we have no football.
You need to stop focusing on the words you don’t like or are uncomfortable with and focus on what actually took place, what it did to Scottish football…how it destroyed Rangers football club causing then to go bust and out of business…this will be the distasteful part you refer to…
It is only a business if it is run within the law and to its fiscal abilities….neither of these appear to have been the core values at the club…
Defend the club you support by all means…but not to the point of making yourself look foolish.
wolfman2011 (@CWolfman2011) says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 17:23
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schottie59 says: Kentallen would be very happy with that version …Kool..
Just a thought
Posting a £9.5m profit
£22m in the bank.
Why the need to rush into a stadium naming deal that may not go down too well with fans, especially as rumours tend to indicate its not going to be worth that much.
“a three year deal worth £1.5 million with a bonus if certain targets are achieved which could apparently add another £1 million.”
I am a regular reader of this blog and rare contributor.
I have noticed that many contributors wish to express their disgust and disapproval of recent events by writing to their clubs and/or cancelling season ticket purchases.
It occurred to me that a more effective course of action might be for someone to create an escrow account where prospective season ticket money could be deposited.
The clubs could only get their season ticket money (and the fans their season tickets) once the clubs through the SFA/SPL/SFA had complied with certain conditions, for example Auldheid’s charter.
The advantage of this approach is that the clubs would see the sum of money in the escrow account and would know precisely what they had to do to get that money.
If the clubs didn’t meet the conditions then the money would revert to the depositors after a preset time.
I’m not sure how practical this would be, what it would cost to set up and if fans would support such a scheme.
Significant fan support is essential as such a scheme would only be effective if the sum in the escrow account is sufficiently enticing.
Despite the difficulties, I think an organised approach such as this would be better than a piecemeal protest by individual fans.
shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:57
Correct, football clubs ARE businesses.
——
I can think of one “business” that went into liquidation recently. We were told in no uncertain terms that RFC 2012 plc (as is) was not a football club.
Shield, seeing as you brought it up – what exactly do you think it was that went into liquidation?
I do agree that Rangers FC were very deliberately found to be not guilty of cheating by LNS, although it has to be said that verdict came courtesy of a highly inventive interpretation of player registration and eligibility to play. That interpretation conveniently avoided the necessity of TRFC Ltd / RIFC taking responsibility for the conduct of Rangers FC.
The twisted web of company / club is one of the most odious parts of this whole thing, and singly responsible for much of the continuing bad feeling. I believe Rangers FC should have been allowed to die. They would be remembered as a grand old football institution who went a bit off at the end, but their achievements would remain.
Spanish Celt 16.31
Does anyone want to take part in a league competition year after year when you know you will win the title before the season even starts?
…………………………………………………………………………………………
That is a question that fans outside the Glasgow behemoths will smile knowingly at.
For years we supporters of other clubs have handed over real pound notes to buy season books knowing that the league championship is beyond us.
We have not had an open league for years and the current voting structure and distribution of revenue do not help. No surprise – despite the legally bizarre findings of LNS, who did his level best in his harmonious report, that the clubs with the most to spend are the ones who win the championships and then get to the top CL table.
It suited both Glasgow Giants who were don’t forget the prime movers behind the SPL structure and rules and until the blue side come back and get up to speed the green side of the city do not really want a competitive league because it will affect their guaranteed annual Champions League revenue streams.
And the euros that brings will continue to help them cement their superiority over the city clubs in their one horse league.
Even though the long standing duopoly as was and now the monopoly is at best a niggle and at worst a turn off for all other fans and even though as a nation our football stock at its lowest ever ebb.
So to answer your question…
No.
But nothing has changed since the SDM (ultimately suicidal) Spendfest killed off all a real challenge from all but the two clubs with the biggest support and revenues.
And with the help of all the 5 way agreement signatories there is a cunning plan afoot to get back to a duopoly where instead of a shoe in its a choice of two.
And the answer to a two club option is also No!
Move on……..what does that mean ? And who is supposed to move on ?
Does it mean ……give in and allow RFC to be fast tracked into a higher league
Does it mean…..accept the propaganda version that Rangers did nothing wrong and were victims
Does it mean …… HMRC should give up with their appeal
Does it mean……The rest of us should go back to sitting at the back of the bus, and allow the old ways of doing this to be reinstated
Does it mean……Staying silent whilst Rangers supporters fill all key positions in Scottish Football. SFA presidents and CEO’s, SPL Chairmen, Heads of referee’s and National Team Managers
Does it mean …… Meek acquiescence of National broadcasters and newspapers bias
We have moved on in some of these area’s. It’s not a given in some area’s that being a Rangers supporter is a prerequisite to influence and authority.
However the role played by Ogilvie and Bryson undermines any chance to move on. The apparent lack of desire to take action against the most toxic individual in Scottish Football history, David Murray, also throws a huge shadow over our national game.
The lack of any kind of will to tackle the divisive and walter mitty like outpourings of Charles Green, allied to the cowardice in tackling large scale outbreaks of sectarian and offensive singing , also suggests little has changed in these area’s. This doesn’t just apply to Rangers, however they are clearly the club with by far the biggest problem
So to those who say move on…..lets see some action on all of the above , and then come back and ask about moving on. In the meantime we’ll just keep on doing what we’ve been doing these last few years. Because if we stop, then based on past history we go back cover up and deals in the back rooms at Hampden, all aimed at supplementing one clubs sense of entitlement
I can see the logic in the ” if the rest of the clubs fans refuse to go back ,sevco will benefit ”
The trouble I have is that ,if I do continue to attend what I see as nothing other than an unadulterated travesty of a so called sporting stage ,everything I have witnessed in this sham has convinced me that sevco 2012 will still benefit no matter what .
Who is going to tell the peepil ,sevco have now had enough help ,time to stop and play fair .
Are we all to believe that the corruption will suddenly stop when sevco get placed in the SPL .
Give me a break ! ,has anyone heard the phrase (Scottish football needs a STRONG Ragers/sevco ), yes that’s right ,not any sevco ,a STRONG sevco .
So for me it will be sitting there again wondering if the peepil have decided if it’s my clubs year to lift a trophy or two or if sevco need it this season ,for the other clubs fans it’s more like ,just give us your money and stop dreaming .
I now know I will not be sitting there anymore until my club get out of Scottish football .the MSM and the peepil keep telling us that Scottish football will die if sevco are not in the SPL ,well IMO it’s dead with sevco in any league now as the rest of us mug punters know the game is bent and a bent game is not a sport .
There is a difference between a fan of your club and a supporter ,a fan is someone who follows his club but does not contribute financially to his club a supporter supports his club financially there are other ways of supporting your club without attending as many overseas supporters do .
I will look to this to ensure I still support my club but do not have to sit and pretend my club is participating in any so called sport .
barcabhoy
With you on some points but what do you mean ” go BACK to cover up and backroom deals in Hampden ” ,where have you been the last year
The flawed Rangers fans argument is that the side letters did not matter, it was the players on the park that won the titles.
it seems to be beyond them to comprehend that Rangers FC 1872 could only afford these players by entering into a dubious EBT scheme that involved giving players ‘loans’ that would never be repaid.
I will be surprised if RFC are as lucky with HMRC next time around as they have been.
like our beloved bankers, there is no morality in society any more. Getting away with it is now assumed as innocent. If RFC fans local nursery had to shut down or the local hospital had to reduce its services as a direct result of fewer taxes being collected, how would they feel when this affected a loved one.
there is always a consequence from an action and lots of people will be impacted financially by the liquidation of RFC 1872.
I doubt fans of other clubs will ever forget the financial mismanagement of RFC 1872 and the failure to govern by the SFA and SPL.
Another thing for me is
I will continue to support my team to the amount of my ST price outwith attending and .who knows ? ,they may even sell my seat ,so will be quids in .If however sevco are fast tracked to the SPL in any way in the 12-12-18 reconstruction plan (which my club seemed to be at the forefront of ) that money will not be forthcoming the following season .
I will leave it to the new supporters coming through to stomach the stench
chipsandblog
If I get into a conversation with a sevco fan over the EBT issue ,I find it handy to ask at the off
Do you honestly hand on heart think that the EBTs where loans or a way of paying wages .
If he replies ,aye they were loans
Just say no problem and then talk to someone who is not going to insult your intelligence ,it will save you from wasting your time
chipsandblog says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 18:48
2 0 Rate This
The flawed Rangers fans argument is that the side letters did not matter, it was the players on the park that won the titles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is not THE flawed Rangers fans argument. That is one of many.
I have tried to give myself a bit of time to consider the LNS verdict and it’s ramifications. Let’s be quite clear about the motives of the msm/spl/sfa. Boycotting games, your own club, or even internationals will not be meaningful, because despite what they say this was never about money. The motivating factor is one which has been a thread throughout the history of Scottish football, it is unbroken. The defining feature of the ruling bodies involvement was a desire to see continue an entrenched WASP cultural supremacy. RFC did not only need to survive it had to be in a position to dominate, forget sky deals, falling attendances or sponsorship, their speculated loss was only ever a vehicle to achieve the main goal.
Obviously now there is a concerted propaganda campaign to minimize the misdeeds of RFC and promote the new club in the quickest possible time. Our only weapon in this is referring to the facts.
1. LNS found them guilty
2. RFC were never charged with gaining a sporting advantage, they trumped up that charge themselves after the event
3. RFC 1872 company and club were liquidated
4. RFC and SFA agreed the club ceased to exist in their submissions to LNS only disagreeing on the date
5. RFC 1872 did not pay PAYE/VAT during 2011/2012 season
6. This gave them a sporting advantage in that they managed to continue to fulfill sporting fixtures and finished second,
There are many other facts RFC their fans and the media wish to bury, don’t let them, let them live with the shame of their deceit publicly every day. So my view is we don’t stop supporting our clubs, we are louder, more passionate and attend in greater numbers, we challenge where ever we can the desperate quest for supremacy. this cheating for there is no other word to describe it has been with us for over a hundred years, this is not the end of it, it will continue so we must redouble our efforts and face it again as we have always done. Don’t give up the fight
RIP Hugo Chavez
Guys , observed a lot of chat around the “No advantage gained” verdict –
The clear route forward if it’s possible to get this queried/appealed is to simply quote the rule
book . It is clear enough for an idiot to comprehend . There appears to be an
Emperor’s New clothes scenario prevailing among the media . Everyone knows it’s guff but are
saying nothing . I’ve already emailed a number of notable media figures to highlight
this very point and enjoyed receipt of exactly zero responses curiously even from media figures who notably frequent this site . Whatever their reason’s there is a clear lack of fortitude to contend this despite Bryson’s evidence being clearly contrary to all previous precedents
and the obvious semantics described in the rule below .. Note the use of the words “MUST” & “and” in the first line.
D1.13 A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended.
This rule cover registration AND eligibility. Even if the registration (though later found to be defective) cannot be revoked retrospectively, the eligibility of players to play in official matches is a separate matter.
The rules clearly envisage a situation were the non-eligibility of a player to play in an SPL match comes to light after a game is played:
Ive seen nothing official saying the spl clubs ratified the LNS report. Where is it? I dont mean Stephen Thomson says. Where is the report from the meeting?
So if there has been no ratification meeting why not all vote to put the judgement in the NOT PROVEN box favoured by some SPL SFA committees as quite patently the decision relates directly to the not guilty EBT verdict currently in dispute and likely not to be decided until roughly Jan 2014. We wouldnt want to be seen to jump the gun would we. Put it in abeyance until such times as the legal process is exhausted. The logic is the other SPL clubs never started this process so why should we jump to a verdict beyond our remit.
jonnyod says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 18:54
I will leave it to the new supporters coming through to stomach the stench
——
The problem being that “new” supporters are generally introduced to the game by their fathers.
I did it with my older son – he lost interest (basically because Aberdeen were expensive pish, and in today’s disposable society having the patience to hope they rebuild successfully just doesn’t cut it with youngsters) and turned to music instead.
I won’t, as I’ve said, be introducing my younger son (6) to Pittodrie at this stage. I might as well take him to the WWE show next time they come to the AECC.
I will continue to take him to fitba training, though, because I help out there and it’s good for the kids. Gratifyingly, there’s not one OF top on display among the P1-3s (though there are a few Real Madrid and Barcelonas). My loon plays in a Hungary strip. 🙂
Stephen Gallagher says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 14:48
On the other hand, the boardroom at Celtic Park will likely be full of people who care not one jot about what we think of this, but instead only care about getting Rangers “back” for the money making revenue that is everything “Old Firm”. They see a balance sheet, figures and don’t care about what mere football fans think.
Many fans will hope for our board to fight back with gusto at this scandal – whilst the board might hope that they can get league reconstruction to get Rangers into the top tier as soon as possible.
===============================
I’m sorry but the team with least to gain from Rangers in the top league, and in particular a strong rangers is currently Celtic, and in particular Celtic’s board and shareholders.
Financially the season they are currently having is likely to be the club’s best ever. It will stabilise the finance, clear a load of debt, and secure things for a good few seasons.
On the field the team are currently 16 points clear in the SPL, with a great chance of winning it.
They are in the Scottish Cup semi-final
They made the last 16 of the CL, the biggest tournament in club football.
Back on finances, the Magners deal has just been secured, and it is an improvement on the Tennents one (I know it’s the same group). They also still have years of Nike and guaranteed millions each season.
Sorry again, and I know it’s conventional wisdom, but the Celtic boardroom currently missing Rangers. I think not.
My letter to AFC
FAO Mr Milne & The Board,
Like many other fans, I am astounded at the interpretation and “punishment” from this enquiry.
Like many other fans I am seriously questioning whether to continue following my team, as paying money and participating only gives justification to flagrant breaches of rules and sporting integrity.
Like many fans I am waiting for leadership from some club or other to challenge the favouritism of the authorities.
Like many fans I am worryingly confident that a fix will be found to benefit a recently dead team up the leagues sooner than what has previously been possible through the reconstruction plans.
I sincerely hope that AFC will be the club to show some leadership, honour, integrity and in the words of a famous north east writer, some ‘smeddum’ to help heal Scottish football.
If people are looking to register a protest at what they perceive to be the improper running of Scottish Football– one option is to have season ticket holders at all grounds– who have already paid their money to the club— turn up for a game on a given date and then walk out after say 17 minutes or at some designated point during play.
If this was done in full view of the cameras etc then the protest would be registered– at least it might be a start.
To some sport is just a business and to others sports is about sport and nothing else.
When sport is all about business and finance, it ceases to be a sport. It becomes a rigged pantomime as demonstrated by American wrestling.
I think the title of this blog is actually wrong, as it reads, “everything has changed”, to me nothing has changed, and here is my reason for saying this
1) Scottish football is still run for the benefit of a team playing at Ibrox.
2) MSM still suckling on succulent lamb, the only difference is the provider.
3) Those in charge of Scottish football are either ex officials of Rangers football club or fans of the club.
4) The fans (minority we are told) are still engaging in dubious singing.
5)Corruption and cronyism still rife in Scottish football.
6)Anyone who speaks out about the obvious bias is branded paranoid.
7)Those in charge of the team at Ibrox still spouting wildly unrealistic claims and ridiculing other teams.
Feel free to add to this list. Point is nothing has changed and never will until there are wholesale changes. Not holding my breath for that.
chipsandblog says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 20:37
=========================
“American Wrestling” doesn’t claim to be a sport, and never has done.
It is scripted entertainment, with story lines lasting for weeks and months, with “good guy” characters, and “bad guy” characters.
Going to see it is the equivalent to going to a pantomime and shouting “boo … hiss … he’s behind you”
The fact that for it, or for a pantomime it is scripted in advance, with a bit of improvisation does not detract from it’s entertainment value. However to compare it to a sport really doesn’t work.
Leave Every Hope, Ye That Enter.
Since the last few days, I have found myself in Limbo.
I know there has been an SPLIC decision, but its not a just one. Its accepted by my club, but should I accept it? I am in the Limbo of indecision. Where next?
One of the most disappointing things about the last few weeks has been that the guys on here who I had categorised as spouting conspiracy theory have been proved right. I had refused to believe that the game in Scotland was so skewed and basically uneven. I could not accept that, prior to the SPLIC decision, the governing bodies of the game in Scotland were happy to assist one particular team or at the least content to see it happen.
And the blogosphere, the so-called Keyboard Warriors or Internet Bampots, are not the only source of such opinion – numerous Celtic fans, and a few other fans, I know have claimed bias of the authorities in favour of Rangers. I had previously been completely sound in the belief that these guys were, at least to some extent … paranoid.
They had predicted that something new and hitherto unknown factor would be produced in Rangers favour to get them off with it – a rabbit would be produced from the SPL/SFA’s hat – there would be no change to the record books on titles ‘won’, and Rangers would ‘get away with it’.
I, on the other hand, had predicted that justice would be done, as far as could reasonably be expected.
Who ended up hitting the nail on the head?
For ‘Paranoid’, read ‘Realistic’, since it turns out the ‘Paranoid’ are demonstrably right.
(NB. Inform Douglas Adams that one of his characters should have been named, ‘Marvin the Realistic Android’.)
= = = =
The decision of the Commission, once wheels are set in motion, is binding on the SPL. This follows the age old principle that it is crazy to set up a Commission to look into and decide something, and then ignore, contest or continue to argue that subsequent decision. It is clear that the decision of the Commission is now to be the agreed outcome of the affair – agreed by the SPL clubs. So, its difficult to see what the point is in continuing with the message that the SPLIC was inadequate in a number of ways.
The message this whole process sends to any who argue that there has not been a fair outcome, is precisely that from my previous sentence – that there is no point in arguing for fairness. The message is:
‘Dear Internet Bampots,
It doesn’t matter how right you might be, there is no point in seeking or arguing for fairness, adequate justice or integrity because you’re not going to get it.
Yours
The SPL/SFA ’.
The SPL accept and endorse the SPLIC decision. I would venture that this is because they are primarily driven by the need to make money from the game. Each club is a company, with a requirement upon it to make money – to profit from the game. This may be a requirement due to the obligations to shareholders, or to Chairmen, or some combination of both. As they see it, they will all be better placed to make money from the game with Rangers back at the top. This is not just the view of the governors or administrators of the game, but also of the moneymen in each and every one of the SPL clubs. They will strive to make money from the game even if it means an end to a level playing field – even if it means compromising fairness, justice and the integrity of the sport. Behaviour that causes such a compromise of the sport, is a big two-fingered salute to the game.
For each instance of ‘game’ in the preceding paragraph, read ‘fans’.
Maybe this means there is no hope for the game – maybe, just maybe, this means there should be a sign above the gates of the Game in Scotland that reads, ‘Leave Every Hope, Ye That Enter’ a la Dante’s Inferno from the Divine Comedy. Any form of participation or support – financially or otherwise – of Association Football in Scotland is for the hopeless. Maybe, there is no hope of anything better than this.
So, what next?
I am in Limbo.
Long term problem for clubs is fan rejuvenation as you say Angus. 3,000 of us (to pick a completely random figure) walking away in an integrity fuelled huff will have marginal effect at the top. Celtic would gain as many fans as they would lose as soon as the old firm saga was reignited. They might even get rid of a few “sweetie-sookers” and bring in a few high spending trendies instead. Put it this way, Doncaster will be staking his mortgage on it, Sky will be staking the loose change in their pocket on it. I doubt the same could be said for AFC, DUFC, jambos etc.
“Here Smugas junior, not only will I take you along to see my team get humped, but I can now confirm to you its rigged in the opponent’s favour as well.” Or, lets just stay in and play Call of Duty intead. What, I never said he wasn’t 18!!!
Where is the “decision” printed other than in a press release by someone who doesnt represent my club?
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 20:35
Or boycott Ibrox and the National team.
Aim the action at the actual problem, do it consistently and repeatedly. Walk away from those things
That would bring real attention to the problem.
The Tartan Army not going to Scotland games and fans not buying tickets for Ibrox, at all, would really bring attention to the issues we all face.
A percentage of fans not returning to their own clubs is much less likely to. It also make life much easier for Rangers making their way back to the top and competing for European places.
However, like I said, to each their own. Just please do it because it is what you believe is right.
I wonder if the Pars would have been in the difficult situation revealed today if they hadn’t been bounced out of the spl last season, while a club played on with improperly registered staff? Maybe that club, which ceased to be in the close season, should really have been in the bottom of the table position, given the rules of competition.
Well handled yet again, leaders of our national sport.
of course American wrestling is a sport. Some call darts a sport!!
I would pay to watch you tell the American wrestlers this is not a sport.
Football in Scotland is weighted towards TRFC by our authorities
12 0 Rate This
dentarthurdent42 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 12:35
I do not think, but am happy to be corrected, that the SPL clubs had a say in whether the SFL allowed them in or not.
————————————
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 13:22
Maybe not, but did Doncaster not make some veiled threat about withholding contractual payments due to SFL clubs if they didn’t accept the SFL1 catapult plan?
dentarthurdent42 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 13:24
6 0 Rate This
====================================
What does that have to do with whether or not the SPL clubs “allowed” Rangers to join SFL3.
The SPL clubs and their fans rejected Rangers (all but Kilmarnock who abstained).
—————————————————————-
OK, I stand corrected.
The SPL clubs had nothing to do with Rangers being “allowed” into SFL3.
They tried to get them straight into SFL1 once the fans revolted against their plan to get them straight back into the SPL
Is that better?
“A US District Court judge in Connecticut has again ruled that competitive cheerleading, despite some upgrades, is not a sport…”
==========================
A slightly different angle on the perennial sport v. business debate.
I wonder what the judge would say about Scottish football ? Is it a sport… 🙄
[And apologies in advance for unintentionally promoting a Fox channel.]
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/connecticut-judge-rules-competitive-cheerleading-is-not-a-title-ix-sport-030613
Hey guys ….. this could get worse .
LNS findings are not written in stone . They are subject to approval or rejection by the SPL ( Board of ?). If they are accepted by the SPL with no appeal to the SFA then the SPL clubs will be complicit in LNS’s sophistry and casuistry and then what do we do ?
If the fans of all SPL clubs accept this then they too will be complicit… what a sordid little episode this has been … thank you SDM and the rest
dentarthurdent42 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 20:27
I agree. It is illogical to think Celtic will benefit from an early return of Rangers. In fact conspiracy theory suggests they have agreed to say nowt as long as it takes at least another three years for them to return which is the result of the league proposals as they stand.
Compensates for the CL money Celtic lost. Rough justice too and a silent GIRUY..
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 22:07
Indeed
Celtic’s board are legally obliged to follow a course of action which they consider to be in the best interests of it’s shareholders. That is not open to debate.
For anyone to suggest that expediting the new club into the SPL achieves that is in my opinion naive.
No matter how many times people repeat that it is in Celtic’s best interest to get them into the SPL, no matter how many times the MSM in Scotland try to convince people of this, it simply isn’t true.
Financially, this is the best season Celtic has ever had. If they can achieve anything even remotely similar over the next couple of years it will only strengthen their position.
They may want the new club into the SPL in two or three years, for their own reasons. When the new club have actually made it their by working up through the leagues. that however is an entirely different matter.
It is not currently in Celtic’s best interests to expedite Rangers making it into the top league of Scottish football.
From the WWE website: “WWE, the recognized leader in global sports-entertainment, featuring the unrivaled Superstars of the ring …”
As for whether I personally believe it’s the right thing to walk away from active participation in the “sports-entertainment” on offer in Scottish fitba … it’s not even that I believe it’s the right thing to do. I haven’t actually thought that deeply about it.
It’s like that time a girlfriend cheated on you back in fifth year. You love her one day, the next you just don’t want to see her face ever again because you’ve been made to look a fool. It’s not a decision you actively make – it’s a … (wait for it) … consequence of what’s happened.
My sudden lack of interest in the team I’ve followed for decades surprises me a bit, but – just like I could never trust that lassie again – I can’t trust in Scottish fitba, and I’m not going to be taken for a mug.
I will, however, continue to rail against the injustice and hope against hope that right prevails in the end. Should TRFC be propelled up the Leagues at unseemly speed, I’ll give up entirely. Even if someone in the authorities finds the balls to put the Titanic into reverse I’ll have a hard time getting my interest back.
It seems to me that the SFA are somehow trying to attract a new demographic. They don’t seem fussed at the obvious disquiet among long-standing fans. Perhaps they are, in fact, aiming for the disposable income of the “sports-entertainment” crowd who know it’s all a gigantic fix, but play along for the fun of it. But they’d need hover-pitches for that, really.
“Perhaps they are, in fact, aiming for the disposable income of the “sports-entertainment” crowd who know it’s all a gigantic fix, but play along for the fun of it.”
That actually made me laugh out loud, chapeau, best nonsense of the day.
Off topic (or is it?). Jeff Stelling of Sky interviewed Neil Lennon tonight and it was a complete breath of fresh air to hear such a professionally conducted interview complementing Celtic on achieving much in the CL this season and giving Sky some great nights. Compare that to the Press Conference with Scottish Hacks who seemed interested only in whether Ambrose missed the bus to training, and how many players Celtic were likely to lose over the summer.
Says it all really, but no shock either.
I believe all our club secretaries would be well advised to phone ou SFA “expert” about once a week to just check that their players hold the same irrevocable gold plated registrations that the RFC players did and that they have not been magically rescinded. They may well have been. How else will they know.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 20:23
————————————————
Is he a tubby we kid with a great left foot? 🙂
Let me mention the hate figure on many in the Celtic support, Nacho Novo. Is it not the case that when he left Dundee he was heading Celtic’s way but couldn’t agree personal terms and in the end headed to Govan. So why did he join Oldco, was it
1: He was a Oldco fan
2: He thought that he would win more with Oldco
3: He had the chance of playing with Top Players
4: He thought facilities and management set up was better at Oldco
5: He was offered a better financial package by Oldco than Celtic
Now it may be the case that all of the above were considered in his desicion to join Oldco but I suspect that # 5 had a large influence on his decision. The point I wish to make is that if #5 was the driver then did signing a player who a times was not a regular in the side give an unfair advantage to Oldco especially over Celtic who had tried to sign him?
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 23:35
————————————————-
You forgot
6) He was a nasty, cheatin’ wee ned who knew he could get away with murder if he played for the referees’ favourite club?
dentarthurdent42 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 22:19
“Celtic’s board are legally obliged to follow a course of action which they consider to be in the best interests of it’s shareholders.”
Which is to protect their investment and, where possible, maximise ROI.
If you believe the ‘Old Firm’ brand didn’t serve that purpose, then I’d say it was you who is naive.
If not, why were both clubs tied into shared sponsorship deals for so many years?
If not, why were the OF games top draw with TV deals?
If not, why was the SPL voting system rigged by the ‘Old Firm’ to the detriment of all other clubs?
If not, why did the ‘Old Firm’ vote themselves the lion’s share of available prize money, again, to the detriment of all other clubs?
If not, why were the ‘Old Firm’ the prime movers in a 10 team league, in order to ensure a minimum 4 OF games a season? (Note – it was Michael Johnston who led the revolt against this).
If not, why were Celtic (through Eric Riley’s capacity on the SPL board) pushing for them to be first retained within the SPL and then, on failure of that option, re-instated straight into SFL 1st Division?
You talk of the complicity of Michael Johnston ( n.b. – the fans voted no in no uncertain terms). Perhaps you should consider further your own club’s complicity in this whole sorry saga.
If you believe the commercial rewards of re-instating the above framework isn’t “in the best interests of Celtic shareholders” I can assure you, there are numerous commercial and financial experts who would argue otherwise.
People in glass houses …….
monsieurbunny says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 23:47
I wasn’t a fan I must admit.
In my way of thinking the SPL could really put this to bed ….I think we all understand that whatever is presented no matter how concrete will be contorted in every which way it can to protect the guilty…
The SPL should….make a statement along the lines of….
‘having considered the opinion of the LNS report…we believe the conclusion reached not to apply the appropriate sanctions befitting the clear breach of player registrations over a 10 year period by Rangers Football Club 1872…who ceased to exist in 2012…was wrong…however in our view it is important for sporting integrity that the opinion be accepted and we wish the NEW football club that was formed in 2012 and allowed to enter SFL 3 of Scottish football under the NEW brand name of The Rangers Football Club Limited all the best for the future…we now consider the matter closed’
It is the one trumph card left to those who have sought justice. Officially declaring the old club dead. That way the titles they so desperatly wanted to retain stay with the old football club and the club in SFL 3 ARE STARTING AFRESH WITH ZERO!
Do the SPL have the balls?
Monsieur Bunny Our friend Mr Novo was I’m sure a wee ned and was to some extent demonized (he didn’t help) by sections of the celtic support, I have called him a few names in my time. That said the main thrust of my earlier post is that whether you liked him as a player or not his play did have both positive and negative effects on games he was involved in. If being given an EBT took him to Rangers rather than Celtic and his goals against Celtic helped Oldco stay ahead of Celtic I would argue that his EBT did give Oldco an unfair advantage.
paulmac2 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 00:21
“Do the SPL have the balls?”
No.
On Nacho Novo.
I think the wee guy would have been every bit as “disliked” by the old RFC support if he had signed for Celtic. He was just caught up in their extra curricular, fruit-coloured activities whilst he was Rangering.
Other notables in blue have fallen into that same trap. Gascoigne? Hateley? Roberts? To name but a few.The main reason being that it is so rife within the confines of Govan that some non Scots, joining RFC would have over-indulged in this nonsense in an attempt to fit in. They can almost be forgiven for their naivety.
Scots born players fully understand what it is all about and they should not be shown the same leniency as incomers IMO.
Over the years both RFC and Celtic have always had that one player who epitomised what their club was all about and fans of the other club hated him because of it.
Whatever anyone thought of Novo, it has to be remembered that he was a great wee player for RFC. That is probably the main reason why he was so “hated” by Celtic fans.
Having said that. I agree with Briggsbhoy. He went for the money.
I have now read, and read several times, the Nimmo Smith report.
I feel soiled and besmirched for having previously argued that Nimmo Smith, purely as a professional, could be relied upon to look after his professional reputation as a man of law.
He has not.
In my opinion, and much as I regret having to express it, the Commission clearly shares the mindset of First Minister, several MSPs, the MSM , BBC Radio Scotland, the SPL Head of Registration, the SPL and SFL Boards.
,
This is the mindset that elevated the saving of RFC above all notions of decent business behaviour, proper journalistic reporting, and any notion of sporting integrity.
,
The 5-way agreement was bad enough. It seems to me that we must now speak of a 6-way agreement.
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The really insulting thing is the long-drawn out pretence of ‘judicial’ process and fairness.
Bad cess to them all.
john clarke says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:16
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John, I presume you have returned from Oz. If so, welcome home. You can imagine the sense of shock that many of us experienced last Thursday when the first tweets started announcing the “no titles to be stripped”, “Fine of £250,000” and “No sporting advantage” headlines.
LNS was expected to restore sporting integrity to the game. It has now been plunged into even darker days. Do we now accept the game is merely rigged entertainment WWF style and walk away – or do we continue to finance our clubs despite them acquiescing to the Hampden plot? Very shortly we will find out if Sevco are allowed to leapfrog up the reconstructed leagues by the other member clubs. That decision will mark the continuation or downfall of Scottish football as far as I am concerned.
Can someone please post the link again to the full LNS report?
Thanks in advance…
Tommy says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:42
john clarke says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:16
*************
Question for you all………….
What is the point of player registrations now? Its obviously a nice to have rule apparently, but having read the registrations document in summer after Brechin played a team that had only a “conditional” membership, I was at the time trying to see how the SFA could have registered the Sevco franchise players (later to become TRFC) and it became apparent that no way were the registrations properly processed even for a “conditional” membership not ocovered given that the anouncement was made during the Olympic opening cermony late on a Friday night. The rules were bent then to allow a team of unisured and unregistered players to play in a Ramsden Cup Tie – having a hedge next to the pitch (with the resultant ball stuck on the hedge) made more sense than what transpired.
We were told Brechin had to protest………
No they did not.
We were told Ian Black was registered as a trialist for the game – how?
The whole farce of player registrations has been skewered to help RFC-1872, Sevco Conditional Rangers and now TRFC who are talking to players with a view to playing them during the summer and not registering them until after their embargo ends……….
So why do we now need to have all the rules and regulations I read over in the summer…….
To ensure Spartans put the same date twice on a form?
To prevent Celtic play a new player – Jorge Cadete – in an important game versus RFC-1872?
To allow RFC-1872 to cheat for a decade?
To ensure TRFC can do what they want?
Would appear so…….so why bother?
If I were Celtic, first player we sign this summer, I would not register him properly and say so what, what are you going to do about it…………that would be worth watching!
And for those who say RFC-1872 gained no advantage or did not cheat, ponder this……..
If Celtic or Hearts looked into implementing the EBT scheme, the major hurdle was rightly recognised that all payments had to be registered with SFA so negating the EBT scheme………
Since no one other than RFC-1872 deemed it possible to not register contracts with SFA, they gained an advantage since they coudl implement due to CO and his co-horts a scheme not available to the other clubs since we had to follow the rules……
If the SFA had said 10 years ago, forget the contacts registration laws and side letters are allowed, then EBTs may have become widespread than they were.
As it is only one club was ALLOWED to implement an EBT scheme and perform their registration policy to suit themselves – no else was ALLOWED to………
That is why the SFA and RFC-1872 stiched us all up…………….
tommy says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:42
“;John, I presume you have returned from Oz. …”
—
Thanks, Tommy, but actually no. I’ll be here for another month!
I am really dependent on getting to the nearest public library to my son’s home for access to the internet, and that library is just part-time,so I have been finding it difficult to keep right up to date with opinion on the blog.
I am still so disgusted with all that has gone on that I can only read a very few threads on here before I have to log out. I said many many months ago that the only fan base left would be the shower from the south side of Glasgow I stick by that. They and the authorities have sickened the rest of us to the core, I cannot see myself watching another Scottish game.
Tommy says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:42
Very shortly we will find out if Sevco are allowed to leapfrog up the reconstructed leagues by the other member clubs. That decision will mark the continuation or downfall of Scottish football as far as I am concerned.
====================
It’s hard to think that falling any further will make any difference. The LNS decision was one too many of a number of decisions over the past year along the lines of ‘here is the evidence set out to show clearly that everything is black; here is my decision that everything, having heard that evidence, is white’. Enough.
My dad remembers great European matches from the early 60s, Kilmarnock and Dundee being champions, not to mention Aberdeen and Dundee United (and nearly Hearts too) in my supporting lifetime. We both have great memories of supporting our ‘diddy’ team on our doorstep, although we both kept our allegiance to our ‘family’ team as well. I’ve kept him up to date with things, he’s a worldly wise man, sceptical of conspiracy theories, but aware that people in power cant be assumed to be doing the right thing. He doesn’t need to get his opinions second hand from me, and so I’ve just passed him on links to original documents, like the Rangers share offer or the HMRC findings, rather than the opinion pieces, such as on here. His reaction to LNS was the same as mine…it doesn’t matter how glorious the game has been if it blinds us to the fact that the ball is currently burst. The dissonance between evidence and conclusions, the efforts that clearly went in to shaping the result, was one too many examples of people in power in the game laughing in our faces, and we could see it for what it is. Neither of us support either Rangers or Celtic, we’ve always followed another team, been to Hampden for the occasional final or semi, seen relegation and promotion, standard fare for many supporters.
What’s happened here has nothing to do with our kind of supporter, it is about money, power and misuse of influence. It’s not what I’m interested in as entertainment, it’s not what my dad is interested in. My son doesn’t care for football, and I’m not trying to persuade him otherwise, because what would I be taking him to see? Sorry for the doom and gloom, but LNS showed the extent of the rot, and its impossible not to see the game in that context currently. I hope the game dies and can be reborn as something better. Or that enough people enjoy the current model and pay to see it, and that it blooms as whatever it now is on the verge of becoming if that’s what people want. But it’s not football to me.