The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
On the Sandaza thing, Danish has explained his position.
If anyone is rushing to take offence please do so privately.
Can we please leave it at that?
________________________________________________
ismellafix says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 16:42
Some late activity on the Sevco share price. Looks like 4 deals of 5,000 shares each. Price continues to slide. Those that can get out now should!
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That’s another record for Rangers – it’s the first time their share price has dropped below the initial flotation price of 76p. Means Green has dropped approx £1 million on his 5 million shares since January – methinks he needs accelerated promotion very soon or there won’t be a lot left for his grandchildren which would be rather sad.
Today is 3 months since launch and in another 3 months the institutional sellers can punt their shares which if they all did could see a 40-50p share price. But hey if there’s progress on the £100 million turnover it could end-up £15 a share – isn’t that what was said in Oz or is my memory playing-up again?
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
arabest1 says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 15:33
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And subsequently the ref was trusted to ensure that the 70 million Italian TV audience and the sponsorship of Fiat et al were deployed for the good to the tournanament of course.
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Well the ref did a particularly poor job on that brief then having allowed an offside Scotland goal to stand and disallowing a legitimate Italian one.
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This is exactly the problem with conspiracy theories. The evidence can always be twisted to suit any old twisted agenda. When Dundee United lost in Rome in the European Cup semi final (1984) rumours of a bribed ref were added to the despicable behaviour of the Roma players, the Roman public and the Italian media. Most people concluded that the disallowing of a Roma goal was evidence enough that no bribe had taken place. Last year the son of the then Roma chairman admitted that his father had indeed paid the ref £50K, perhaps United failed to turn up on the day, perhaps the ref did not need to do much, if anything for the cash, but none the less the outcome was what mattered, not the detail of this free kick or that corner the cash was paid the outcome guaranteed.
Similarly in the case of Scotland v Italy, (and a draw was no good to Scotland) the outcome is the thing that matters, everything else is lost in the fog of ifs, maybes and could’ve been. Which is why the accusation of institutional bias against a particular club holds no water…….. if we look at the outcomes! i.e. the winning of 35-40% of all baubles on offer. Those in positions of power and influence will always attempt to mask this reality by claiming victimhood. Witness Green’s efforts since the summer a masterclass that had the bears foaming at the mouth, there is another Glasgow club who have turned their own ‘persecution’ into an exemplar of ontological security among their following……………… and they have been doing it as long as I can remember!
Let the thumb downing begin, I can take it! 😉
Imagine you’re a member of a bowling club, it is a small, friendly club where there is 300 members. The club is a cornerstone of the community, has been for years. There is a group of 15-20 members who turn up every Wednesday afternoon, ain or shine have a few beers and play dominoes. Their bar receipts make a noticeable impact on club finances as times get tougher.
The years pass, their habits are regular, and in time the froup ae trusted to pay for their own drinks without a barman if they can’t get the shift covered. Everything is fine for a while, but soon new faces join the Wednesday group and one Wednesday evening there is no money in the till. The rank and file are outraged and demand that the group be expelled from the club.
The committee reluctantly accede, they are banned, but they make seemingly sincere apologies, and well twenty active members, they are welcomed back into the club. But things are tense; the shamed members have an agenda, and are vigilant for any miscreant breaking any club rule; thefriendly little club all of a sudden has a horrible atmosphere, and the rank and file find somewhere else to drink. Now these 20 members have the place to themselves and have more power and influence than before and demand that the club is run on their terms.
One committee member, let’s call him Hurnbull Tutton, stands up. His club may be down to 150 members, but he can’t see the logic in 20 disgraced memebers calling the shots over the majority of law-abiding members. The twenty are told of they don’t like the club’s rules they should just go and drink elsewhere. The rules of the majority are the rules of the club.
The members back Tutton.
Do we?
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 19:26
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ismellafix says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 16:42
Some late activity on the Sevco share price. Looks like 4 deals of 5,000 shares each. Price continues to slide. Those that can get out now should!
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That’s another record for Rangers – it’s the first time their share price has dropped below the initial flotation price of 76p. Means Green has dropped approx £1 million on his 5 million shares since January – methinks he needs accelerated promotion very soon or there won’t be a lot left for his grandchildren which would be rather sad.
Today is 3 months since launch and in another 3 months the institutional sellers can punt their shares which if they all did could see a 40-50p share price. But hey if there’s progress on the £100 million turnover it could end-up £15 a share – isn’t that what was said in Oz or is my memory playing-up again?
===========
Problem with that is that he has to create a sellers market for when the institutions wanna get shot of their shares – the only market he has is the fans – who else would touch shares in a holding company of a football club losing 1M a month
A holding company that the club could be sold out from under the IPO investors
Are the fans that gullible?
Interesting article in the Guardian under the headline –
EU prepares to blow final whistle on Spain’s debt-ridden football clubs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/21/eu-debt-spain-football-clubs
apologies if already posted.
thegamesabogey says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 20:30
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Interesting article in the Guardian under the headline –
EU prepares to blow final whistle on Spain’s debt-ridden football clubs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/21/eu-debt-spain-football-clubs
apologies if already posted.
———-
Great piece. This has been simmering for some time. Spain’s extraordinary sporting successes are already looking slightly suspect in light the Fuentes trial.
Like Allys comment,
“We’ve had our problems”.
HAD!.
You’re still losing £1m p.m.
No cost cutting and a promised £10m warchest next January.
If I had a business with with a reported £21m in the bank and property assets worth an estimated £15-20m and this business was being dragged down by a subsidiary losing circa £12-14m per annum I’d get rid of the loss making enterprice.
Remember,RIFC are a PLC and have a duty to protect their shareholders,all of them,including the wee guy who put in his last £500.
killiemad says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 19:38
The twenty are told of they don’t like the club’s rules they should just go and drink elsewhere.
——
It’s possible that this little clique have been whoring themselves out ^h^h^h^h telling other social clubs that they’ll come and spend their money there instead, because the other guys at the bowling club all hate them, even though they don’t care.
But what if the other social clubs have replied that they don’t want a bunch of grumpy old bowlers coming and setting up their dominoes there, thanks very much, because they actually have quite enough customers as it is and they could do without the twenty’s reputation becoming associated with them?
Mr Tutton, being an upstanding gent, would undoubtedly stand firm in his opinions and intent. Little does he know, though, that some important members of the committee were actually involved in the till money disappearing, and others attend private social and recital evenings with some of the twenty in the hall on the square. His position is therefore undermined from the start.
Sharewatch. I wish I was a fly on the wall or a fly who had just left the room where the deals are being struck at reconstructionaid. I could make a few bob, or would I get a visit from the AIM polis/ law or credable enforcer. What if I get a brother to buy the shares? I’ll have to find an outlet accepting the Alpine empties I had stashed for such an opportunity.
Andy says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 14:23
I’m sure I posted this back on the RTC site but I was once the token Tim on a day out playing football at Shettleston Juniors in a Rangers strip no less (long before Mo) brought along by CO who played at left back I think.I took great delight at the time in telling folk I was the first Tim to play for a Rangers team (a strip really) and score. The company who organised the day had their offices at Ibrox. Mr Syme was the referee with the Hope brothers running the line. The day concluded at a local Masonic Hall (another first for me) where I was thoroughly entertained over a few beers by Mr Syme with his tails of sorties abroad and yes I would say Rangers were his big team 🙂
killiemad says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 19:38
was going to add a TU, but thought it appropriate to stop at 54!!
Dunfermline seeking administration in final attempt to save club.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/dunfermline-pursuing-last-resort-option-of-administration.20584164
DP
I do hope Dunfermline have done their homework re administration .
They really want to follow follow the ragers 1872 admin method rather than the Woolworths oneand remember the holding company defence as it seems admins can be a little pick’n’mix
jonnyod says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 06:50
8 0 Rate This
DP
I do hope Dunfermline have done their homework re administration .
They really want to follow follow the ragers 1872 admin method rather than the Woolworths oneand remember the holding company defence as it seems admins can be a little pick’n’mix
———-
Jonnyod, I have the sense that this is a desperate, last-ditch move to win a few more days or weeks. The valuable assets are supposedly all GM’s. What will be interesting is if they deem the club an ethereal, unliquidatable entity 🙂
Richard Wilson @timomouse
It’s happened! Rangers share price has dipped below its original opening price at flotation of 75p in early trading.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 15:20
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Right, getting tired of this sevco “promotion” nonsense
if 12-12-18 gets approval
Let Sevco win SFL3 and be promoted to SFL2 at the end of the season, give them a flag and a bauble to add to the bike and the reserve league title they have in the trophy room
On the 1st of July implement the new set up of 12-12-18
That will mean that Sevco won SFL3, got promoted to SFL2, have a title, and then, once everyone is in their new league, they will be put into the new structure based on current standings.
feckin simple.
===============
Slightly wary even of this scenario tbh. You assume when they enter old Div 2, even for a matter of hours, that they retain their old standings from their previous finishing place, thus Sevco are 32nd as opposed to 23rd equal. Common sense would side with you. Other parties with a draw bag, some balls and an oven would disagree.
rantinrobin says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 08:57
Still not a worry to Charlie and his pals holding the shares they were given for 0p and 1p. A sale at any price makes them a profit. And of course they still made sure they would be coining it in by awarding themsleves nice big salary and bonuses as well.
The fan ‘investors’ don’t care because the investment was from the heart so that they still have a club to go and watch – for just now.
The thing to watch is what the institutional investors decide to do. Apart for two trades at 400k shares each the other week it is all small beer to date.
At some point we will get an accurate picture of what is going on with regard to the loss of around £1m a month and how much of the IPO cash they need to use for day to day operating costs. Ally’s war chest will be heading of into the sunset and any refurbishment works at Ibrox along the hotels and the cancer centres will all be put on hold.
The thing they must progress however is the shops as they need to sell as many new strips as possible. However my guess is that those deals are all in Mike Ashley’s (and Puma’s) favour and a good first year will see his inital investment repaid. After that I can see him heading off down south again.
I expect the share price will continue to fall and therefore it doesn’t look good for going back to the markets for additional cash.
The fact is that they need to get as high as possible in the league reconstruction to charge as much as they can for season tickets and pay as you goes.
However, on current form, without improving the team there is no guarantee they would get out of a 12 team second tier and we now know that any agent worth their salt is going to be heading into negotiations with the Sandaza figures already down as a starting point for any player of a half decent calibre.
Still looks like they are walking a tightrope and it could go either way.
Just a quick question…
CW stated that the club he owned was a financial basketcase, and that the club had £45m costs with only £35m turnover. This is a £10m trading loss.
This £10m trading loss is less than £1m a month over the 12 months of the year, which is not quite as bad as a £1m a month trading loss that the current club is experiencing, which leads to the question …
Does this mean that Charlie Green is worse at running the place than Craig Whyte?
He told Rangers’ official website: “There is already a precedent for this situation, established by the SFL at the end of the 1993-94 season when Stranraer, winners of the lowest of three divisions, were promoted to the new second tier on the basis they were champions of their division and merited promotion.
“Indeed, recently the chairman of Stranraer FC referred to the matter and supported the prospect of Rangers being promoted in the event of a 12-12-18 outcome.
—————————————————————————————————————————
Given the comments of Stanraer vice chairman can we add then to the likes of Apple, Disney, the Dallas Cowbys, Man Utd and the Central Coast mariners who have all turned around and said Charlie boy is talking mince.
Just a final thought for this morning.
We still have a few weeks to go before the SPL vote on league reconstruction on 15th April.
I understand the SFL haven’t decided on a date for their vote.
The Div 3 title could be won tomorrow. However after than T’Rangers do not have a home game until 13th april, where they could expect a full house to celebrate.
cont’d (cliked to quick)
Then they only have 2 more home games to the end of the season.
Therefore not much left in terms of an income stream for this season and no indication of what level they can peg their season tickets at to start that income stream moving.
No apparent money up frnt from Puma and that cash along with Blackthorn won’t be acccessible until next season.
That IPO money is going to get eaten up fast.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 10:49
It is fair to assume that RIFC’s cash (and cash equivalents) will have reduced to circa £18m by now. Yes Charles the timing of the IPO was purely down to you keeping your word.
Meltdown on FF due Chick Young hosting sevco Q & A session!!!
Lions Led By Donkeys
——————————————————————————–
After last nights Q&A debacle coupled with the journalist involved in the writing of the the Captains book I can only despair at the leadership currently being shown at our club.
It is quite simply unacceptable to me that this can be allowed to happen.
Massive slap in the face from the club.
PS You know where you can stick your book Jig
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestendGer
Serioulsy? First this link up with those bheasts from the east and now someone hosting a q&a that took immense pleasure in our troubles!!
I am flabberghasted!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by furryfeet1690
Charles Green got his successful share issue, the fans are not as important to him now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigster
Charlie will lose a lot of goodwill over this if true
Quote:
Originally Posted by OakshawBear
Fook me how out of touch are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenose al
I’m getting to the stage that i never thought I would with rangers .its a poor imitation of the club I grew up with. Heartbreaking. No shit, sherlock!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlesexbear
Get Chick Young to fook, even though its a charity doo, that man should not even darken our doorstep ever again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suramericaranger
F*cking hell. I’m out.
I await the FFers eager to excuse Ally and Green on this. Unforgivable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by making_a_stand
Has the BBC ban been overturned then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 54ncounting
Huge error of judgement here..how can you ban the bbc and then allow this ignorant turd in to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrid51
What an absolute kicking from “our own”, doesn’t appear Green or the manager are bothered about what fans think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porto Bear
The first question should be why are we entertaining that wee gob**ite.
He should be nowhere near Ibrox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacneb21
Surely not!!! If so, then unbelievable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue 9
Absolutely pathetic Rangers
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigster
Dungs a BBC employee FFS !!! This goes beyond the pale
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenose al
Ally will be lapping up dungs patter rest assured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gunslinger
he will be allys pal
Quote:
Originally Posted by d505
Disgusting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberniv
Guys on here knocking their pan in trying to stand up for the Club and they allow that shitebag over the threshold.
Have to say I cannot believe that Young is even in the stadium far less running a Q and A. Looks like an old cronies arrangement is still alive and kicking regardless of the damage that scumbag and the tarrier company he works for has done our Club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tauntonbear
Did nobody walk out when Young walked in ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lone_ranger
This could only have been achieved via Ally’s links with Young. Sometimes McCoists is totally out of touch with the core fan base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberniv
Ok but most of the time he is “freelancing” for the BBC. Just a tax dodge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyboymason
Very dissapointing
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisleyprod
we will never learn. never.
and as for our captains choice of hack to help him with his book, unbelievable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBTHERANGER1
This is so wrong i dont know wot to say . Angry and hurt anyone who sticks boot in should never get through our front door again .
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny v
As has been said, Charles has the cash from the share issue and doesn’t care half as much as he’d like us to believe.
There are 100 people who could have hosted that tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrid51
He is a very good pal of Traynor, jobs for the boys has a whole new meaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
Chick Young of the BBC…The BBC who are banned…supposedly.
Disgraceful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caigy
Why is that wee p**k anywhere near anyone from Ibrox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
Dung’z old pals act is deep within the organisation, disgusting that nobody feels the slightest bit offended by the BBC or Dung’z possible poor journalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by possilbear1
****ing disgusted with this
Quote:
Originally Posted by gboigloyalist
I’d love a fan to stand up and make a statement to the effect of the feelings on here, this is disgusting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan-rtid
Thats a disgrace how they can let him in ill never know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabears
I’m stunned at this,can’t get my head around someone from the BBC getting the job to do a charity night at Ibrox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by making_a_stand
This has passed me by, who is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebarney
For the first time for a year i can say that i am disgusted by the actions of our club in inviting that two faced little piece of excrement anywhere near Ibrox. Young has been as culpable as the rest of the scum at the BBC in attacking us at every opportunity. He must have crawled out of liewells backside in order to do this gig.
The clubs PR (?) has made a big mistake here. There are others who have defended us such as Archie McPherson, who would have been better.
Green has made such a big thing about the fans being part of the club. Lets hope he realises this error in judgement
That photo of the session makes me vomit.
If anyone from the club is looking in take note. We dont forgive or forget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buster
If anyone ever thought that the verbal confrontation that Green&Co have engaged in has been for real then they need to have a hard think to themselves.
The siege mentality it helped foster has very much served Green&Co in several ways.
Take a look around and tell me what has changed as a result of the verbal confrontation ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by george_costanza
Yet another kick in the teeth for the long suffering support who the club really dont deserve to have with the contempt they treat us with.
Giving this vile little lickspittal cretin of a journalist who openly gloated and joked about our plight a nice wee earner makes me sick.
Proof if needed that those in charge of the club are either massively out of touch with the fans or they simply dont care about our feelings.
Nothing has changed with the takeover of the club we are still a shambles of the park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weebear
Prick Dung being there is a slap in the face to every Rangers supporter who went through hell the last year, disgusted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb
Just looked that up about Jigs book… Guidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by tauntonbear
Except we do unfortunately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobie1873
Shite. JT got the night off?
WATP
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo2129
Did nobody at this q&a ask why he was allowed in the building
Quote:
Originally Posted by weebear
Ah f@ck it i’m missing this weekends game. sick to my stomach.
….and showing a real level of understanding
Quote:
Originally Posted by tauntonbear
Green’s not to blame.
We’re to blame for tolerating things like this.
We have to be the most easily manipulated support in football.
You know what pisses me off when I go on holiday or come into contact with seperated brethren in the south is that they always say ” your league is just all Celtic & Rangers, the rest is all crap is it not”. Can you imagine how much of a laughing stock we shall become when the conversation will be ” your league is just Celtic & The Rangers the rest is all crap, in fact the whole thing is crap because The Rangers dictate everything in that league, I mean they can’t even be relegated it would seem because they are that important, what kind of league is that…shite mate, pure shite, mickey mouse really”
You can hear it can’t you !
Carl31 (@C4rl31) says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 10:27
1 0 Rate This
Just a quick question…
CW stated that the club he owned was a financial basketcase, and that the club had £45m costs with only £35m turnover. This is a £10m trading loss.
This £10m trading loss is less than £1m a month over the 12 months of the year, which is not quite as bad as a £1m a month trading loss that the current club is experiencing, which leads to the question …
Does this mean that Charlie Green is worse at running the place than Craig Whyte?
==============================
not really – but it shows that the business model has never been and is unlikely to be a viable one
CW could charge more for STs and had more income from sponsorship/tv/uefa etc – but he had a huge wage bill and debts to service.
CG doesn’t have the same income, but he doesn’t have the same debts or players wage bill.
Long and short of it is they need to cut their costs significantly or charge a premium for a 3rd rate product.
Put it like this, they need to cut monthly costs – players, facilities (close Murray park) and lay off backroom staff – not to mention cut the wage bill of the management team
if they do this – how do they manage such a large supporter base (other than offloading ticket sales to a third party and thus either charging more or reducing income to pay for it) can they support Rangers TV/Web page/Media or do they need to cut the costs of that – and will the bears be happy about it
what if they had to offload McCulloch, Alexander, Shiels, Wallace, Sandaza, Black and replace them with raw 17 year olds form the youth team – that could save nearly £2M a year – but how will the team fare in SFL2, SFL1 or the SPL with that team? Would the bears pay to watch such a team?
Grant King (@Sprotson) says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 12:06
thereek says
I’m sure there are a number of individuals who were in a position to leak the relevant information who have never signed the Official Secrets Act. You are pre-judging the source.
Lots of pre-judging has already taken place in this saga eg FTTT and LNS outcomes. Lesson to be learned there.
That is a fair point however it does not mean the matter should not be investigated. An offence has alleged to of taken place.
================================================================
Lots of offences have allegedly been committed by Rangers over the last twenty years, but in spite of promises very few, if any, have actually been investigated.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 11:17
The trouble is that all the backroom staff, admin etc etc all TUPED over. Trying to re writing their contract or making them redundant to cut costs is just going to bring a shitstorm with the number of cases going to an employment tribunial.
Charles has unfortunately inherited the mess Duff & Duffer left him by not them welding the axe when they first put their foot in the door at Ibrox.
However he has not helped the situation by awarding himself and others nice salaries and bonuses.
To run Ibrox, Murray Park and the whole ‘T Rangers oepration the cost will still be in the same region as CW and SDM days. However Charles has all his grand ideas and in most cases these will require additional finance even to get money making ventures off the ground. therefore cash out but a time lag until you see any money coming back in.
The only thing he has managed to cut is the players wages and possibly the cooncil tax for Ibrox. An as you say the level of expectiation from fans is that a better product should be on the park. Thats will cost money and any money that is spent will need to be spent wisely, which does not appear to be the case to date. There is nothing to say that future target singings won’t be highly paid duds.
The only way that will be paid for is by generating income through ticket sales and getting what they can from selling strips.
The IPO money may just get them over that hill but it is going to be a struggle getting to that point.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 10:40
The Div 3 title could be won tomorrow.
================================
What a fantastic achievement that would be!
I’d like to suggest Ally McCoist for Scottish manager of the year.
Go Ally!
PS
Can anyone give an indication of when the instituational investors will get a wee dividend payment??
Wonder if the bears who bought shares will be asking for their divi to be reinvested in the club
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 11:40
PS
Can anyone give an indication of when the instituational investors will get a wee dividend payment??
=========================================================
When hell freezes over?
Just a guess.
arabest1 says: Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 19:31
“This is exactly the problem with conspiracy theories. The evidence can always be twisted to suit any old twisted agenda”
“there is another Glasgow club who have turned their own ‘persecution’ into an exemplar of ontological security among their following……………… and they have been doing it as long as I can remember! “
——————————–
I know that you are totally against all the stuff that’s been going on to ease the passage of newclub to the top rung. I don’t remember disagreeing with any of your posts before. However, with this one I do, in two regards, conspiracies and ontological security.
As long as there is scepticism about people doing things in secret which affect other peoples’ lives and livelihoods, particularly when rules and laws are blatantly being binned and/or twisted in the process, there will be conspiracy theory. In my opinion, with a balanced approach to circumstantial evidence as it emerges the twisting you complain about becomes irrelevant.
I had to google “ontological”. I’m not sure even now that I fully understand what you mean in this context. Being “ontologically secure” (have I got it right?), I don’t know which Glasgow club you’re referring to: would it be Thistle? Queen’s Park? Celtic?, assuming it’s a senior club of course! () ( wee smiler didn’t work)
wottpi
That was always Charlie boy’s conundrum. He had, at least he thought he had, two options once the post cva carve up was complete. Either sevco could continue in the SPL where resources would be tight but publicity, “the great comeback” would be in overdrive. Or down to div 3 where the “worst team in Ibrox folklore” would win the title by the end of March. Now absolutely up front it has to be said that to do it in front of the crowds that they have is extraordinary, crowds my own diddies could only dream of. But with those crowds comes expectation and with those expectations comes cost. Funnily enough the other 41 teams seem to understand this equation, its not like its new, nor is it rocket science. But marrying the two, or more simply funding the cost to guarantee the expectations continue over the next two or three years whilst still protecting his own investment (both the long term cash for the grandkids and the short term, what’s liquid, I’m out of here fast, where’s that bike) was always going to be his greatest challenge. You can see why he might quite like the idea of skipping a year of it. Equally, taking “the worst team ever” into the new 2nd might be a gamble too far, although I’ll give the bearz fans some credit here. Would they turn out to see their team struggle to mid table ? Yes I believe they would, for a couple of seasons anyway as long as they saw some sort of progress and end game. Would the institutional investors hang around? Well they haven’t with any other club, big or small, successful or not.
sorry, meant to finish the above with..
The safest road for me for sevco is to get up into old div 2 and invest accordingly. I can’t decide if their keen-ness to bypass this stage is desperation (I’m not totally buying that, I believe the bearz will buy season tickets regardless), gambling (lets just get up to SPL2 and see what happens), incredible naivity (assuming all capable teams will still come to Ibrox and try to defend for the draw as before) or simple bluff, trying to derail the reconstruction, get them to the league they have most chance of winning anyway (all resources considered) but maintain the chips on shoulders routine.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 11:39
————————————————
The T.U.P.E thing is nothing more than another scam to try and link the old club to the new club,charles green bought the assets from a company that is in liquidation.
Note point 1,if it were the same company then there would be no need for T.U.P.E to happen.
Note point 2,CG bought the equipment(ibrox,murray park n the lawnmower).
Which transfers are not covered?
TUPE does not apply to:
transfers by share take-over because, when a company’s shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business: the same company continues to be the employer
transfer of assets only (eg the sale of equipment alone wouldn’t be covered but the sale of a going concern including equipment would be covered)
transfer of a contract to provide goods or services where this doesn’t involve the transfer of a business or part of a business
transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1655
As far as i’m concerned the moment the original club went into liquidation,everyone who was employed by that club were made instantly unemployed,it was then a choice for CG to hire back whomever he wanted.
arabest1 says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 19:31
…”there is another Glasgow club who have turned their own ‘persecution’ into an exemplar of ontological security among their following……………… and they have been doing it as long as I can remember”!
========================================
And with good reason, as the events of the last two years have borne out.
Its only paranoia if inaccurate.
AEK Athens president Andreas Dimitrelos was arrested on Thursday over 170 million euros in taxes owed by the Greek top flight club, police said in a statement.
They added that the 54-year-old Dimitrelos, who was taken into custody voluntarily, is due to testify before the public prosecutor on Friday.
AEK said the alleged offences occurred before Dimitrelos’ tenure at the club, which started last year, and said the tax arrears were being settled under a debt restructuring procedure initiated by the club under the country’s bankruptcy code.
“The voluntary attendance of our president Andreas Dimitrelos at police headquarters concerns club debts from previous administrations which have been restructured by Article 44 (of the bankruptcy code) and for which the present administration is not liable as they have not arisen out of the current fiscal year,» AEK said in a statement.
“On the contrary, up to this point Mr Dimitrelos has managed to keep AEK alive, so much so that we are all united in the hope for our final victory and salvation.”
Athens public prosecutor Grigoris Peponis has also issued warrants for the arrest of the club’s presidents from 2004 to October 2012, including former AEK and Greece striker Demis Nikolaidis, who was president from 2004-2008, plus Giorgos Kintis, Nikos Thanopoulos and Stavros Adamidis.
AEK is 11th in the 16-team Greek Super League after its worst start to a season characterized by financial struggles.
The club has been operating on a shoe-string budget following a period of financial turmoil in which almost the entire first-team squad was sold last year to secure a Super League licence and preserve the team’s top-flight status.
Dimitrelos’ arrest is the latest setback for AEK following the life ban from international football imposed on midfielder Giorgos Katidis by the Hellenic Football Federation (EPO) after he made a Nazi salute to fans to celebrate a goal.
The 20-year-old former Greece under-19 captain made the gesture after scoring the winner in a 2-1 league victory over lowly Veria last Saturday.
The club suspended him for the rest of the season after he apologized and asked to be dropped from the first team.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 12:23
Ho ho what a mess but it’s all “Greek” to me, a bit of a “Tradgedy” really 🙂
NTHM
So, in summary, AEK went bust but greek HMRC accepted a CVA p in the £ deal no doubt comforted by the fact that a/ AEK paid everyone off and scrabbled for average players as best they could and b/ the individual directors knew fine they could expect plod at their door sooner rather than later.
Anyone care to draw some comparisons, anyone at all?
Oh hang on, found one.
The 20-year-old former Greece under-19 captain made the gesture after scoring the winner….. for tax cheating, criminal team ….. in a 2-1 league victory over LOWLY Veria last Saturday.
Surprised at the Sevco fans hatred of Chico as he’s taken their side during all of this imho
bill1903 says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 12:58
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Surprised at the Sevco fans hatred of Chico as he’s taken their side during all of this imho
———————
not really
1. they aren’t the brightest – everyone is an enemy
2. he’s an annoying wee nyaff
arabest1 says:
Thursday, 21 March 2013, at 19:31
would it be okay for me to give you a row arabest1?
i generally like your posts, however, as a member of long standing on this blog i am disappointed at your unnecessary jibe at what i assume is Celtic and it’s followers…
you must have read the litany of, justified as it turns out, complaints that Celtic fans have posted on here regarding the decisions, taken or not taken, of the various footballing administrative bodies regarding Celtic and the attitude of the MSM to our club (or company or whatever)…
these were not petty or imagined slights and merely hinted at the ingrained institutional bias against Celtic in particular, and all other clubs who weren’t Rangers, in general…
i thought the whole ethos of this blog was to challenge this prehistoric mindset shown by the supposed leaders of our game and those in the 4th estate who should be challenging them…
the “paranoia” exhibited by Celtic fans over the years was not fostered by a “victim mentality” but by a very acute understanding of the reality of the situation(s)…
the real fight against ineptness, lying, cheating, bias and rule-breaking is ongoing for all of us on this blog and, in my view, is not best served by mischief making at the expense of those of us of a Celtic persuasion…
there ye are…
consider yourself chastised!
Robert Coyle says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 12:18
I reckon CG did not do his homework on either TUPE or SPL Licensing rules.
On the former he should have known there was at least a risk of players either walking away for free or staying on at same high rates as before. He seemed unprepared for what TUPE allows.
On SPL Licensing an SPL club is granted a licence under the same criteria as apply to granting a UEFA licence. Even if UEFA could have been persuaded by the SFA that The Rangers and Rangers were one and the same in football la la land, the accounts that would have to have been supplied could not be and the unpaid tax (the £14m PAYE stuff) made granting a licence impossible. Maybe the SFA misled CG on this point, maybe they were ignorant of their own rules or too confident in their ability to make the rules fit whatever purpose the SFA wanted (they have lots of experience of that after all) but CG was too willing to be led and the SFA too willing to do the (mis) leading.
FRANCISCO Sandaza has been suspended by the club pending an investigation into comments made by the player in a recorded telephone conversation.
The club, Francisco and his agent have had discussions and manager Ally McCoist also spoke with the player, who did not take part in today’s training session.
Francisco will not return to the club while the investigation is underway.
Rangers regard this is an extremely serious issue but there will be no further comment until the inquiry, which could take a week, has been completed.
(on the subject of reducing the wage bill!!! 😀 )
why was it chico time ?
why did jim not do the q&a though ? he’s awfy quiet.
must be working on his next epistle.
or is he locked in chucks cupboard ?
big cupboard obviously.
I came across this on the Ross County web site. Seems like a good idea for any club aspiring to reach the SPL.
” In 2005 George Adams arrived at a Club which, like many in Scottish Football, had financial difficulties to overcome. By establishing a sound business model and exercising good governance – no mean feat when faced with the varying highs and lows both on and off the field experienced by any football club – Ross County stand as an example that success in Football requires more than simply throwing money at it. Wage structures are set with the goal of ensuring the long term stability and development of the Club rather than with the aim of buying short term glory. The players at the Club understand and believe in the ethos of a Football Club which is guided by ‘Football People’, with a Manager and Director of Football fully focussed on giving them the best platform possible to grow and develop as players. This has led to a team mentality and a culture of ‘us and we’ rather than ‘you and me’, the greatest testament to which comes on the pitch but which is also evident in the atmosphere at training and around the club every single day.”
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
1. they aren’t the brightest – everyone is an enemy
2. he’s an annoying wee nyaff
———————————————–
In any debate on radio Scotland he has always adopted the SSB line of punished enough etc.
He has been made to look a plonker by the likes do Spence/Gordon/Cosgrove though
(Massive St Mirren fan by the way 😀 )
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 13:01
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bill1903 says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 12:58
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Surprised at the Sevco fans hatred of Chico as he’s taken their side during all of this imho
———————
not really
1. they aren’t the brightest – everyone is an enemy
2. he’s an annoying wee nyaff
============================================
It’s a bit like their attitude to referees. They get more ‘lucky’ decisions than anyone else yet are always complaining they are hard done by by refs.
Apologies for my careless mistake there. I forgot to say “their old, former club got more decisions”. I don’t know enough about this new thing they’ve got.
BTW for the guy who was struggling with the smiley, just put a “:” and a “)” together to get 🙂
pau1mart1n says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 13:12
I think the last word on James Traynor was that he had gone to Australia due to a family member being ill.
Not sure what the outcome was but if that was the case then to head over there it must have been serious, so it may be that is why he has been quiet of late. In such circumstances then perhaps best cut him some slack.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 10:03
rantinrobin says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 08:57
Still not a worry to Charlie and his pals holding the shares they were given for 0p and 1p. A sale at any price makes them a profit.
———————————————————————————-
Yea but it’s not as simple as just making a profit on 1p shares no matter what the share price does. The fall since the beginning of January has cost Green approx £1 million – in anybody’s money that must hurt and the other 1p investors are hurting as well because they put the original money in to make as big a profit as possible and it’s melting away.
I don’t like ally mccoist. I think he is an odious character. However I would like to support his campaign for transparency in Scottish football.
In 1988 the referee kevin o’donnell was fired with indecent haste by the sfa after a controversial incident in a celtic-hearts match. He later became a matchday reporter for radio clyde.
Many years later after another big rammy at a celtic-rangers when celtic were once again at the receiving end of another honest mistake he was interviewed in the daily record and he told an anecdote which beautifully sums up Scottish football.
Most of this quote is verbatim. The part in brackets is not. I cannot remember exactly what he said but you will get the gist.
“the first time I officiated at celtic park I was the junior linesman. The senior linesman and the referee were (so bigoted or sectarian or hated celtic so much) that they refused to use the green towels provided by celtic in the changing room. They brought their own towels”
This story shows what celtic have been up against in Scottish football.
In the interest of transparency I think we should be told the names of the officials. I’m sure ally would agree.
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
arabest1 says:
Thursday, March 21, 2013 at 15:33
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And subsequently the ref was trusted to ensure that the 70 million Italian TV audience and the sponsorship of Fiat et al were deployed for the good to the tournanament of course.
——————————————————————————–
Well the ref did a particularly poor job on that brief then having allowed an offside Scotland goal to stand and disallowing a legitimate Italian one.
——————————————————————————————————-
This is exactly the problem with conspiracy theories. The evidence can always be twisted to suit any old twisted agenda. When Dundee United lost in Rome in the European Cup semi final (1984) rumours of a bribed ref were added to the despicable behaviour of the Roma players, the Roman public and the Italian media. Most people concluded that the disallowing of a Roma goal was evidence enough that no bribe had taken place. Last year the son of the then Roma chairman admitted that his father had indeed paid the ref £50K, perhaps United failed to turn up on the day, perhaps the ref did not need to do much, if anything for the cash, but none the less the outcome was what mattered, not the detail of this free kick or that corner the cash was paid the outcome guaranteed.
Similarly in the case of Scotland v Italy, (and a draw was no good to Scotland) the outcome is the thing that matters, everything else is lost in the fog of ifs, maybes and could’ve been. Which is why the accusation of institutional bias against a particular club holds no water…….. if we look at the outcomes! i.e. the winning of 35-40% of all baubles on offer. Those in positions of power and influence will always attempt to mask this reality by claiming victimhood. Witness Green’s efforts since the summer a masterclass that had the bears foaming at the mouth, there is another Glasgow club who have turned their own ‘persecution’ into an exemplar of ontological security among their following……………… and they have been doing it as long as I can remember!
Let the thumb downing begin, I can take it!
Who’s talking about conspiracy theories? It seems it is you rather than me.
Now my intention wasn’t to open up a ‘who’s suffered must at the hands of referees’ debate but I feel I must address your bizarre “logic”.
Let me get this straight – the referee in the Scotland v Italy Euro 2008 qualifier was in hock to the Italians in some way in an Italo-UEFA conspiracy to get the Italians through – and the referee ensured Italy got the result by making two crucial game changing errors – handicapping the Italians?? I suppose he might’ve signalled to the Italian bench, “don’t’ worry I’m going to award you a free-kick near the touchline in the last seconds of injury time. It’ll be as good as a goal”
You then say – disregard any decisions a referee makes in the game as this is not evidence of corruption/bribery. Well how else is a referee supposed to influence a game to ensure the result is guaranteed as you put it? Why then would any club/national official waste his £50K bribing the ref?
It’s especially absurd when a referee makes mistakes which go against the team he’s supposed to be favouring and at crucial points of the game – not say with Italy 3-0 up with 10 minutes to go, OK let’s give Scotland a wee penalty so we can say it all evened itself out.
You refer to a disallowed goal in the Roma-Dun Utd semi back in 84. Was this decision correct? If so, your comparison and therefore your rebuttal is invalid.
You reminded me of a Hamilton Accies-Celtic game in 2010/11 during the Mowbray tenure where honest mistakes reached an absurd nadir. The final result was 1-1, Accie’s goal was clearly offside, James Forrest was given a straight red card for a tackle which made no contact with the opponent and Celtic were denied a clear penalty. Celtic also had a goal disallowed from a corner after the ball left the field of play by a matter of inches before swerving back into play, which was indeed the correct decision but interestingly made by the same eagle-eyed linesman who couldn’t see an Accies player yards offside for the opening goal.
Now I may be paranoid, but to be fair to me, none of the succulent lamb brigade disputed any of these incidents as I have described them.
However the cry was…. well Celtic got a penalty and Accies had a man sent off so it all evened out.
The thing is… Celtic’s penalty was clearly the correct decision and the player who committed the foul had to be red carded as denying a goalscoring opportunity. This came in the last minute of the game and at a time when they already had a numerical advantage due to aforementioned honest mistake so was not actually a handicap as such.
So we are told and expected to believe …..
that three glaring game-changing refereeing mistakes
are cancelled out by….
two correct decisions?
No, sorry you’ve lost me.
You then say because Celtic have won, in your estimation 35-40% of baubles, this is evidence of “guaranteeing of outcomes” in Celtic’s favour.
Could you enlighten me as to a team that has won more than this proportion of baubles?
Is there any “guaranteeing of outcomes” in relation to this team?
If so, how does Celtic or anyone else win any baubles at all?
Is there a rota as to who referees are going to “guarantee outcomes” for, which changes with each season?
Were Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs/Dundee Utd’s 10% of baubles won via sliding scale of “guaranteed outcomes”?
Why would the “guaranteeing of outcomes” fluctuate in this way?
You would probably say Dundee Utd/Aberdeen etc won their baubles DESPITE “guaranteeing of outcomes” to the Old Firm. Well, glad to establish that it is indeed possible to win against unfair odds.
Or is it perhaps the case that – as we are seeing only too plainly with present events unfolding in Scottish football – there was only ever ONE team who were the beneficiaries of attempts by Scottish football authorities to “guarantee outcomes” – and as the club representing the primary barrier to this, Celtic were often an injured party, you know, by perhaps the football authorities failing to register a key player in time for a crucial game, that kind of thing.
My initial point was merely, that fans of ALL teams claim bias against their team, and I did so to highlight the hypocrisy of the Scottish media and Establishment mouthpieces who fight tooth and nail in defence of Scottish referees when they are criticised for their “honest mistakes” and who would tell us that the integrity of these men is beyond reproach, you can question their ability but not their integrity, you pute their lives in danger with this kind of talk blah blah .. and then come out and openly call a foreign referee a cheat.
Don’t get me wrong I was disappointed Scotland lost that game but as a decent human being – witnessing such blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty – especially offered in my name – makes me want to vomit.
I’ve heard Walter Smith claim the SFA rescheduled a disciplinary hearing to keep Kenny Miller out of a game against Celtic, I’ve heard him give a suspiciously Irishey monickered linesman a namecheck when complaining about one of his offside calls, I’ve heard him complaining about a linesman “running 60 yards to get involved”, I’ve heard Mixu Paatelainain say referees wont give Kilmarnock penalties, I’ve heard Billy Brown rant that they’ve been putting up with this for 100 years, I’ve heard Peter Houston accuse the ref of conspiring to give a penalty against Dundee Utd where one wasn’t even given, I’ve heard Jim Jeffries blow his top and demand an apology for the referee allowing an offside goal to stand which wasn’t offside…. I’ve heard managers of ALL clubs criticise referees and make wild claims of victimisation.
However only ONE club is accused of rampant paranoia and claims of unjustified victimisation.
I find that interesting.
It suggests to me that some people in positions of authority have something to hide and have an interest in promoting this myth.
Well it makes more sense than your assertion that referees fix games by making mistakes in favour of the teams who are supposed to lose.
Like I said, I’m not trying to spark a refereeing debate as I’m sure fans of all teams have a long list to submit, but I would hope by now we would’ve established that the “guaranteeing of outcomes” only ever applied to ONE team in Scotland
One for the acountants.
What do TRFC need to do to get (audited) accounts presented to the SFA/SPL by the published deadline (April?) to meet the licensing condiitions?
I appreciate that an (independent) auditor would need to sign off on the accounts. Do these also need to be presented to the board and the shareholders?
Is there any indication that TRFC will not have audited accounts presented in time?
Are there any hurdles that the Club could find difficult to overcome e.g. is there any suggestion at this time that the Club will have problems as a going concern on the basis of the losses posted this year?
Persons who may have been concerned about the poor wee sausage Mr Sandaza can rest assured that the bears are aware of Mr Tommy’s phone number, are currently tracking down his address, and have started retaliating with phone calls to him.
Posted on RM is an “edited” version of one of these calls. It seems the unedited version was originally posted, but removed by Admin over there. I don’t know why, but a few guesses would probably come up with the answer.
TRFC – making friends around Scotland since 2012.
St Mirren is Chico’s “big” team….
Dougie Dougie! 🙂 need I say more 🙂
In the Hamilton-Celtic example above, a couple of corrections. Lennon was the manager not Mowbray and Accies had two men sent off, Jim McAlister correctly seeing red seconds into his long awaited Accies debut for a horror lunge, so Accies had no numerical advantage in the latter stages, anything but actually, as we were as good as down to eight men for the final seven or so minutes as Dougie Imrie was badly limping and could barely move but had to stay on as we’d used all our subs. The other claims seem correct although I can’t recall the Forrest tackle. The ball was cleary out of play for the late disallowed goal but agreed Canning was clearly offside (or was it Mensing?)
ecobhoy says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 14:30
Hear what you say but Charlie boy has lost nothing. He has put nowt of his own into the club. Is it not the case that the small loans he gave early on were repaid. His 5m of shares were hanfed over for nowt and he is drawing a salary plus bonus. Come next December (or by ill health before then) he can still pocket a fair sum if he sells up and there is a mug around to buy them. Even at 20p a share he still pockets a million plus salary for 20 months work.
Did Ahmed not get his shares in relation to the repayment of a small amount of loan outstanging £22k or there abouts. He too will be quids in.
Not sure how others think they will get a return on any money they handed over to T’Rangers other than Ashley who will have got a great deal for Sports Direct on selling the jerseys.
The only hope anyone has of getting a return is when CL money is a possibility. A long wait me thinks.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 13:01
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bill1903 says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 12:58
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Surprised at the Sevco fans hatred of Chico as he’s taken their side during all of this imho
———————
not really
1. they aren’t the brightest – everyone is an enemy
2. he’s an annoying wee nyaff
============================================
It’s a bit like their attitude to referees. They get more ‘lucky’ decisions than anyone else yet are always complaining they are hard done by by refs.
——————————————————————————————————————————
Can’t say this is my experience. The Cheats FC/Sevco fans I know were the only ones who defended the referees. Sure they would come out with the odd decision against them to try and counter the “paranoid” viewpoint, but they use lines like “these decisions even themselves out during a season” or “it’s easy with the slow motion and different angles but the ref has to make a split second decision from what he sees”.
The other Hibs Hearts Aberdeen Dundee etc fans always maintained that the refs were poor and both the old firm got favourable decisions, however in my experience it was only the fans of one team who backed the refs in scotland. I wonder why…………..?
Long Time Lurker says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 14:57
One for the acountants.
What do TRFC need to do to get (audited) accounts presented to the SFA/SPL by the published deadline (April?) to meet the licensing condiitions?
I appreciate that an (independent) auditor would need to sign off on the accounts. Do these also need to be presented to the board and the shareholders?
Is there any indication that TRFC will not have audited accounts presented in time?
Are there any hurdles that the Club could find difficult to overcome e.g. is there any suggestion at this time that the Club will have problems as a going concern on the basis of the losses posted this year?
————————————-
It will not be audited accounts, God knows what it will be, in fact this new rule means it might not be a requirement at all although I think it was introduced since last year more to protect the SFA than aid The Rangers.
“Exceptional dispensation may be granted by the Licensing Committee in certain cases where a club is unable to provide historical financial information . Clubs will be required to submit written reasons for such an exceptional request. Not wishing to disclose the information will
not be considered a valid application for an exceptional request however.”
More interesting stuff here
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/Part2:National/Part2Sect8_Legal,Admin,FinanceandCodesofPractice%20Criteria.pdf
Great blog folks – been a lurker since the first days of RTC.
Question for the financial guys – if someone is selling shares, there has to be a willing buyer.
So, if any of the 1p shares are sold for anything above that value in order for the seller to profit, who is actually going to buy them?
Monsieur Bunny, thanks for the tip ref smiler. Sad to say “.””)” doesn’t work. (:) used to, but no more. My operating system is nearly pensionable. That’s probably the cause.
gerrylentils……
… I was at the game that you mention regarding Kevin ODonnell.
I can hand on heart say his performance that day made David Symes performances for rangers seem the most fair and honest unbiased refereeing you could ever see..
But as the supporter of a diddy team that is what we have always had to suffer.
I defy you to get your hands on a tape of that game in 88 and watch it and tell me that O’Donnell did not cheat. In those days it would appear that Roy Aitken had a free rein to kick centre forwards up and down the penalty box without punishment.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 10:03
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Is it possible that the cash from the IPO is what is being used to buy the shares on behalf of RIFC?
If we want to mention howling ref decisions….who can forget Brines at St. Jonstone last year….can’t remember who the ST. Johnstone player was…but went down in his own penalty box…thought he should have had a free kick….put both hands on the ball to help himself up onto his feet…whilst Samaras was about 2 yards away looked at the ref and said..’penalty’….Brines…”play on”…WTF!
How Brines remains in post as a ref in our top league is beyond explanation…its not the first time he has shown himself to be at best hopeless..
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Friday, March 22, 2013 at 14:43
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It reminds me of a wee funny story relayed to me by a SEVCO fan a few years back…when the old Rangers were still alive and kicking…
in the dressing room 15 minutes before kick off between Rangers and Celtic …and the team talk is in full swing…”we need to get stuck right inta these..F***** F***** barstewards”…”if I find anybody not giving it 100% to kick lumps out of them….then you’ll be aff”….just then Walter Smith walks in and says…”thanks ref I ‘ll take it from here”…
Anyone deliberating over the performances of the MIB regards giving Celtic or Ragers decisions .
I always found it revealing when ragers fans argued , yes but what about the throw in the ref gave you in the cup final ,it was clearly ours .
they were moaning about a throw in in our own half that led to a goal in the SC final in 1989 , this argument is put forward 30+ years on ,hell I could give them at least half a dozen they got in any given season .
Although to be fair to them they updated their ire to the naka free kick at St Mirren
paulmac2 at 17.23
…the St Johnstone player was Michael Duberry. But you don’t have to go back that far to outrageous refereeing decision between Celtic and St Johnstone, the last game will do. Two disallowed goals, one so clearly onside it was an utter injustice. Mind you that was the wee team that was being done out of points so skip over that one, they don’t count. Or do they?.
….and on the subject of Michael Duberry, I am very sure that his handling of the ball was not intended as cheating either. A man of quite substantial integrity. To this day the only player I am aware of that has stood up against his own team-mates in a racial assault case, when the Leeds student Sarfraz Najeib was beaten unconscious by Bowyer and Woodgate. Standing up to racism cost Michael friends and his place in the Leeds team. When he left St Johnstone he assured fans he would never play for another SPL team as he believed that would betray the trust and support that Saints fans had shown in him. He is now at Oxford. Great guy.
Doobs – a man of honour.
We were wondering where you’d got to Stuart. Then Paulmac2 realised what button to press. The Saints – and of course they count !
Rangers FC Official þ@RFC_Official 8m
LATEST: #RFC will play Linfield (@OfficialBlues) in a friendly match at Ibrox on Wednesday 10 April at 7.15pm:
And in case we forgot. Good luck to WGS and the team tonight. Get right into these daffy munchers.
Stuart Cosgrove
I would be interested to know your take on the comments Jimmy Calderwood made on your show regards DM offering him the Dunfermline job .
Did you find it strange (to say the least ) or just an everyday run of the mill occurrence