The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
Considering this is a forum for Scottish Football Monitor, I am disappointed in the lack of coverage concerning the plight of Dunfermline.
I make no apologies,
well done Ladies
Scotland have won in the final of the World Women’s Curling Championship in Riga, narrowly beating Sweden 6-5.
Eve Muirhead’s rink also consisted of Anna Sloan, Vicki Adams, Claire Hamilton and Lauren Gray.
Continue reading the main story
“All the girls have played unbelievably and to come out as world champions feels great!”
Eve Muirhead
Scottish team skip
“It feels amazing,” Muirhead told BBC Scotland. “We knew if we played the way we could play, we’d be close to a medal.”
“It’s been one of my lifetime dreams to become world champion. It shows you so much hard work finally pays off!”
bobferris70 says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 16:14
14 0 i
Rate This
Biggest home win in the Third this season – Stirling Albion 9 East Stirlingshire 1
Biggest away win in the Third this season – Montrose 0 Peterhead 6
Manager of the year in the Third should be Gardner Spiers of Queen’s Park. Every summer he more or less has to construct a new squad with about £0 to work with. I’m puzzled that Queen’s haven’t taken anything from The Rangers (yet) having seen them a few times this season, they play some very nice football and have several players destined for bigger things.
~~~~~~~~~~~
You’re right about the manager and some of the players there. If not at CP I sometimes go to Hampden and the standard of play has been good from a lot of young guys.Really refreshing to watch. Also gives me a chance to see a team win there as my first love has a problem with that.
But there is a serious angle when the two scores above are compared to TRFC. They are paying obscene money to win the bottom tier. Following a failed policy of paying over the odds. And already the calls are going out in the media about what calibre of player they need to bring in to win the next league and so on. Lessons haven’t been learned by many of their fans.
darkmoon63 says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 18:07
Considering this is a forum for Scottish Football Monitor, I am disappointed in the lack of coverage concerning the plight of Dunfermline.
——————–
The floor is all yours, let us know what you think and we will respond.
Q: Who is to blame for the current situation?
Q: Are there any saviours out there?
Q: What do you think is the best course of action, Pay Debts, Admin or Newco?
Q: Do Dunfermline deserve what’s coming to them for not running the club correctly?
Q: Where is Dunfermline’s true place in Scottish football?
You start, I and others will give our input :o)
from the BBC website:
Pars steering group out of options?
http://t.co/pK4v22x7oV
Darkmoon 63 @18:07
I so sympathise with you on the plight of what I assume is your club. There doesn’t seem to be an easy solution. As Madbhoy said, the floor is yours.
Dunfermline in my opinion are, or should be one of the mainstays of the Scottish game. Their history for a provincial side is thoroughly commendable. I remember some terrific matches involving my team and the Pars, and travelling to East End Park was always a perilous event.
It seems to me as an outsider that HMRC are playing hardball with them, possibly due to previous encounters with Scottish (ex) Football teams. Masterton has an awful lot of questions which require urgent answers.
I hope for the fans sake the club survive.
darkmoon63 says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 18:07
Considering this is a forum for Scottish Football Monitor, I am disappointed in the lack of coverage concerning the plight of Dunfermline.
************************
I suspect darkmoon63 possibly isn’t a Par, but no matter.
Dunfermline’s plight is certainly linked to ex-Rangers and the problems they caused, whether it be Murray offering Jimmy C a job at East End, Masterton’s business acumen as appreciated by David Murray, or more recently the actual demise of the ex Ibrox side, where the spl couldn’t decide who to transfer the redundant share to, when it became obvious Green’s Rangers wouldn’t be acceptable to the vast majority of supporters of top flight clubs.
I’m unsure whether the Pars would have been in a less perilous situation had they, rather than Dundee, been allowed to stay in the spl: their problems appear to run far deeper than an extra season in the spl might have alleviated.
However, the lack of supportive comment from the SFL,SFA, and politicians contrasts hugely with their interventions in the case of a club which went down with far greater debts, and far less ‘sporting integrity’.
Masterton, similarly to Murray, appears to be exempt frm MSM criticism to date, but his dealings over the past 15 years or son in business would seem to mark him down as a bad ‘un.
“I hate the term ‘sporting integrity’. It’s an expression used by every chancer who wants to obtain an advantage”
I have read this comment 10 times or more; I cannot get it to make sense. Most of Hugh Keevins latest piece was actually worth reading, the subject being something I hadn’t thought about previously and a consequence of Dunfermline’s current problem. It was nice to read something that didn’t involve Celtic or Rangers for a change but why slip the “Sporting Integrity” point in the middle?
auchinstarry says:
……Dunfermline in my opinion are, or should be one of the mainstays of the Scottish game. Their history for a provincial side is thoroughly commendable……..
………………………………………………………………………………………
auchinsrarry,
If my memory serves me right I remember the Parrs beating West Brom over two legs in the 1st round of the old Fair Cities Cup (’67?), West Brom had Jeff Astle et al and in the ascendency after winning the cup the previous year in the old English 1st Division.
Dunfermline won 1-0 at home and drew 0-0 away………..An outstanding result for an underrated team….Happy to be corrected guys.
darkmoon63 says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 18:07
Dunfermline’s situation now seems desperate but what has brought the club to this point?
The club has obviously spent more than it made over a long period of time and this poor management has lead to this pass.
Looking in from the outside it also seems that they also no longer even own their ground. This is what makes this situation all the worse.
Even if they could ‘do a Rangers’ they will stiil have no ground to play in which I think we all agree is fundamental for a football team.
While clubs around the world struggle with how to deal with fans demands for success while even remotely balancing the books the authorities sit and watch.
Will it get any better when FIFA’s financial fair play rules come in?
I very much doubt it as the people in charge of our sport from FIFA to UEFA to the national associations seem impotent, powerless, or simply too wrapped up in themselves to care about the clubs who support the pyramidic structure of the entire sport.
The question for the sport itself is how many blocks need to be removed before the entire edifice collapses.
If Dunfermline do go under, and I hope they don’t, then I really do believe more clubs will follow. Particularly the clubs who happen to have grounds near town/city centres where the value of their ground far outstrips the value of the clubs themselves.
While owners come and go along with their egos we, the fans, are left to attempt to follow their clubs.
Ultimately the clubs themselves are to blame. Twice actually because they first of all spent the money and secondly, as they themselves make up each national association, they failed to put structures in place where each clubs finances were checked on an annual basis.
Each association should ensure that every club is up to date with national taxes on a quarterly basis by being able to check with HMRC. All clubs should be forced to agree to this as part their membership of the association. Penalties should escalate per indiscretion. Club debt should also be pegged at a percentage of their turnover. Even if that debt is owed to a sugar daddy it is still a debt.
This would begin to close the door on the financial madness that has ripped through the higher echelons of Scottish football while the fans themselves are left to deal with the consequences.
Ultimately the clubs themselves are to blame because they do not want to bring in rules to end this financial madness.
Anyway I hope Dunfermline do survive.
A TD for congratulating our wonderful Lady Curlers in winning the World Championship.
Must be a wayward Swede………… or just a turnip.
monsieurbunny says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 12:53
As an aside, there was a turn out of Welsh supporters (with a big Welsh flag) at Firhill yesterday. Glad we were able to show them that some Scots CAN play football. (Hope not too many went to Ibrox instead).
———————————-
How to make friends PTFC style:
@ThistleTweet
All #walesaway staying over after tomorrow’s game you’ll be more than welcome at Thistle v Livingston on Sat. KO 3pm. Free for all under 16
@ThistleTweet
#walesaway Still around after last night? warm welcome for you at Firhill, Thistle v Livi. Just don’t mention the score from last night.
Chasing The Dragon
@ThistleTweet I think there’ll be a lot of us, you’ve been welcoming. No other clubs have bothered contacting us.
Dear @ThistleTweet I am in love with your stadium and your fans’ welcome to the #walesaway boys and girls. Outstanding, man
In football, @thistletweet are way better than the Scotland national side. Simple fact. 5-1 55m, samba skill at Firhill
@abeyptfc @thistletweet amazingly friendly place. We’re never leaving! Bring on the Morton
Gareth Lewis
@ThistleTweet “the best Scottish team of the weekend” was the consensus (most had been to Hampden, Ibrox and Firhill)
Ian Hamer
Made to feel very welcome at @ThistleTweet. Entertaining game, great fans. Good luck for the rest of the season.
Matthew Phillips
Really enjoyed my day at Firhill today. Impressed with Partick, a good footballing team. Hope they go up to the SPL @ThistleTweet
pennywisepeter
Sod @CardiffCityFC and the rebranding, I’m coming to watch Partick Thistle every week #walesaway
A big thanks to @thistletweet for a great game & a really friendly bunch of fans. “If you want to get to heaven when you die…” #walesaway
Rhys Wynne
A fair few #WalesAway have adopted @ThistleTweet as their Scottish team. Still singing “If you want to get into heaven went you die..” 🙂
Chasing The Dragon
@GQ1876 had one of happiest footballing afternoons of my life. Thanks to you all. What a beautiful club @thistletweets is. Diolch!
who are these guys? any connection to the pars
DUNFERMLINE STADIA MANAGEMENT LIMITED- based at 16 Charlotte Square
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 20:50
3 0 Rate This
================
PREVIOUS DIRECTORSHIPS SHOWING ALL DIRECTORSHIPS
NAME & FUNCTION STATUS PORTFOLIO
Mr John Wood Yorkston (born 58 years ago)
Director, Director
19 Jun 2002 — Close
Closed
Open4
Retired46
Closed2
Mr Francis Matthew Mcconnell (born 68 years ago)
Director, Solicitor
19 Jun 2002 — Close
Closed
Open2
Retired7
Closed5
Mr Brian Gallagher (born 49 years ago)
Director, Director
19 Jun 2002 — Close
Closed
Open3
Retired2
Closed4
D M Company Services Limited
Company Secretary
08 Sep 2003 — Close
Closed
Open58
Retired158
Closed65
Mr William Brian Robertson (born 57 years ago)
Director, Solicitor
19 Jun 2002 — 11 Sep 2006 (4 years, 2 months, 22 days)
Retired
Open6
Retired9
Closed0
Ms Elaine Jane Cromwell (born 42 years ago)
Company Secretary
13 Mar 2002 — 08 Sep 2003 (1 year, 5 months, 26 days)
Retired
Open0
Retired34
Closed0
Ms Elaine Jane Cromwell (born 42 years ago)
Director, Accountant
13 Mar 2002 — 07 Aug 2003 (1 year, 4 months, 25 days)
Retired
Open0
Retired34
Closed0
Mr Gavin George Masterton (born 71 years ago)
Director, Banker
13 Mar 2002 — 19 Jun 2002 (3 months, 6 days)
From this week’s Economist.
Corruption rife in FIFA?
The Love of Money will be the Death of Football?
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21573977-another-fifa-scandal-bonus-money
A MINUSCULE British territory in the Caribbean of just 15,000 people, Anguilla is among the smallest of the 209 members of FIFA, football’s governing body. Its national team is ranked 206th in the world, above only Bhutan, San Marino and the Turks & Caicos Islands; its record since its first match in 1997 is played 28, won two. But that is not for want of nurturing by “the FIFA family”, as Sepp Blatter, FIFA’s president, calls his discredited organisation.
On top of the annual $250,000 for investment in football that FIFA gives Anguilla, like every other member, in 2003 the local federation received grants of $650,000 to build a training centre in The Valley, the island’s capital. In 2010 Mr Blatter went to Anguilla to inaugurate this. According to FIFA, the centre was to comprise a pitch with a security fence, artificial lighting and a grandstand with offices and changing rooms. Visitors today find a small grandstand with rusty, broken-down fencing, chickens pecking at the weed-strewn, bumpy pitch and offices that are empty and apparently unused, with computer terminals still wrapped in plastic. There is no sign of the dormitories, gym, cafeteria and classrooms supposed to have been built with an extra $500,000 granted in February 2011.
Raymond Guishard, head of the Anguilla Football Association, failed to respond to questions from The Economist about how the money was spent. A FIFA spokesman said that “construction works have been delayed due to the limited labour force on the island” and insisted that “we constantly monitor” the activities of its member federations.
In this section
Yet this monitoring seems particularly cursory in the Caribbean. Guyana’s football association, run by Colin Klass for 22 years, was given $800,000 in grants for a training centre between 2002 and 2006, but has yet to start any building work. The football federation in Montserrat, an even smaller British Caribbean territory than Anguilla, with just 5,800 people, got $788,139 from FIFA in the early 2000s for what it said would be a “complex” with floodlights and fences, but what Google Earth suggests is just a forest clearing.
Vincent Cassell, who runs Montserrat’s football association, attended a meeting in Trinidad & Tobago in 2011 with Mr Guishard and Mr Klass at which Mohamed bin Hammam, Qatar’s former football supremo, is alleged by FIFA to have offered $40,000 to each of them if they would vote for him to replace Mr Blatter in that year’s FIFA presidential election. These and other allegations resulted in FIFA banning Mr bin Hammam from football for life last year. Six Caribbean officials received much shorter bans; in the case of Messrs Guishard, Klass and Cassell, these ranged up to 26 months, with fines of up to 5,000 Swiss francs ($5,450).
Mr Guishard and Mr Cassell are now back in charge of their local associations. FIFA continues to send comparatively large amounts of money to the Caribbean associations, not all of which seems to be invested in football development. In 2010 and 2011 in Anguilla and Guyana, a combined total of more than $1m was booked as unspecified “bonuses”. Once again, it seems that FIFA has scored an own goal.
DUNFERMLINE STADIA MANAGEMENT LTD
Not sure what their ownership is now, but at one time very closely related. This was a JV company, 75% owned by DAFC Ltd and 25% by Masterton’s Stadia Investment Group. The model was that this company operated all non-football activities at the stadium (catering etc), and the profits it generated were fed back via a dividend up to the FC company, with SIG entitled to 25% in retrn for their ‘expertise’. Exactly the same model was put in place at Livingston, and LSM Ltd was the company ‘rescued’ by SDG Caledonia Ltd, the company with direct links to Kevin McCabe and Sheffield Utd. The ‘rescue’ of LSM Ltd resulted in the redundancy of all its employees (myself included), and was basically a way to recycle it’s debt to save embarassment to Masterton and HBOS, as SIG was simultaneously in even more severe financial difficulty.
Seriously………..on the subject of they’ve been punished enough!
Anyone else wondering if Sevco would be top of SFL3 if the transfer ban had been implemented immediately instead of delayed until the start of Sept?
Not only were sevco shoehorned in without meeting the requirements, they were then allowed to sign a team despite a transfer ban – the SFA/SFL have cost a long standing honest member of the league to miss out on promotion this year.
I have been tweeting recently on the subject of Labour Lords – Enriched and Ennobled.
At the moment there are twelve Scottish labour lords;
Today my number two was:
Twitter pbmchugh
Labour-Ennobled & Enriched #2 of 12 Baron(George)Foulkes of Cumnock £543.000 (Yes more than 1/2 million!) expenses in 5 yrs. Hit polis in drunken brawl ’93 #YesScot #indyref
So then no surprises for me when I read
albabhoy says:
From this week’s Economist.
Corruption rife in FIFA?
Mr Guishard and Mr Cassell are now back in charge of their local associations. FIFA continues to send comparatively large amounts of money to the Caribbean associations, not all of which seems to be invested in football development. In 2010 and 2011 in Anguilla and Guyana, a combined total of more than $1m was booked as unspecified “bonuses”. Once again, it seems that FIFA has scored an own goal…
And guess what!
…Lord Foulkes is very active on Caribbean matters. He serves as President of the Caribbean Britain Business Council, Chair of the Dominican Republic All-Party Parliamentary Group, Chair of the Belize All-Party Parliamentary Group, Vice Chair of the Trinidad and Tobago All-Party Parliamentary Group and Vice Chair of the British – Central America All-Party Parliamentary Group. In April 2011 Lord Foulkes became President of the Caribbean Council…
George Foulkes was the chairman of Hearts from April 2004 until Oct.2005
briggsbhoy says:
Saturday, March 23, 2013 at 23:58
Did the demise of the Scottish National team start about the same time as Rangers became the dominant force in past decade?
===========================================
If you’re referring to league titles I think you’ll find Rangers were certainly not the dominant force in the last decade.
angus1983 says:
Saturday, March 23, 2013 at 17:48
madbhoy24941 says:
Saturday, March 23, 2013 at 17:33
1. He was discussing his contract terms with an agent offering a job, which can in no way be seen as public.
——
Indeed, as far as Sandaza was concerned it was a private conversation, by legal definition.
If anyone’s at fault, it’s Tommy for taping the conversation and then making it public without Sandaza’s permission. It’s a straight Human Rights breach, under invasion of privacy. I doubt he could even argue public interest, as he was discussing the guy’s employment and wages under false pretence.
==================================================================
Required reading….
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/rangers-sandaza-suspended-after-falling-for-fake-phone-call-lessons-to-be-learned/#more-3342
briggsbhoy says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 09:57
As for The Linfield game I can only see a certain element of Sevco fans attending that game, not exactly a glamour tie.
With the team they have just now inviting a team at a much higher level could be a major embarrassment on the field, we could have another world record, goals scored in a friendly.
====================================================================
Even inviting Linfield could turn out to be an embarrassment.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/exclusive-glasgow-rangers-celtic-playing-1783049
Ger’d your loins! Glasgow Rangers will be playing in England within FIVE YEARS says Ibrox chief
24 Mar 2013 22:30
Charles Green says Rangers could start in the Conference and work their way up, Celtic are coming too – and he’ll use EU law to force it through
We’re coming: Rangers’ chief executive Charles Green
Tim Anderson
Glasgow Rangers will be playing in England within five years, the Ibrox chief executive has predicted.
And Charles Green insisted the inevitable arrival of the Old Firm will also benefit the game south of the border.
The most successful club in Scottish history are ready to start in the Conference and play their way up to the Premier League. And the outspoken Yorkshireman is prepared to go to court to remove a rule he judges is a restraint of trade as blatant as Bosman.
But Rangers want to be wanted. And Green insists the Ibrox club’s demotion to the Third Divison, a softening in UEFA attitude and the economic crisis have given fresh impetus to a perennial debate.
“Whether it is next week, because the English authorities change their mind, or in five to 10 years, Rangers and Celtic will leave Scotland,” Green stated.
“I would like to think within five years. I say to English clubs: Don’t be afraid of the unknown. There will be cross-border leagues and that will change the face of European football. These doors are opening.”
The financial benefits to Scotland’s big two are obvious. Celtic will earn £2.4million from TV for winning the SPL this year while Rangers, who can win the Third Division title this weekend, will bank only £10,000 for 15 live matches. And the impact on Scottish football is debatable, with Green offering to leave a colts team in the Third Division.
But the problem is England does not want them. In 2009, when Bolton floated the idea of a two-tier Premier League to include the Old Firm, the proposal was quickly sunk. And new broadcasting deals are worth a staggering £5.5bn over the next three years. Why would Premier League clubs outside the elite want rivals for their top-flight place? Why would England want Rangers and Celtic?
“Why would football clubs or football authorities not want Rangers and Celtic?” responded Green, whose club sold 38,500 season tickets in the fourth tier of Scottish football. “If they say: ‘It wouldn’t add anything into the game’, they are lying.
“I watched Southampton play Wigan. The stadium wasn’t full – there were empty seats. Now there is no way on God’s earth that any team that Rangers play will have empty seats.
“That is what football wants – to bring the money in. Not just to keep banging Rupert Murdoch’s door and say we want some more money.
“When you say the English FA and Football League don’t want us, when you look at some of these clubs, Portsmouth have gone bust three times in four years. Two English clubs have come to me and said: ‘Buy us and close us down. Take us for free and take on the liabilities’.
“I have spoken to a number of chief executives from Premier League clubs – and all of them would welcome Rangers. Of the people I have spoken to directly, or people on my behalf have spoken to, throughout the leagues – 20 – only two have said no.”
Going bust and reforming in the Third Division has given an alternative route down south. After winning their 54th title or reaching the 2008 UEFA Cup Final, it would have been hard to argue for joining English non-league football. But after falling out with the Scottish authorities – Rangers still don’t know which division they will play in next season – that is now the plan.
“I don’t want to go into the Premier League,” Green claimed. “It would be wrong. If the Premier League sent me an invite saying we could start next year, I would turn it down.
“I don’t want to go into the Football League. But what I do want to do is to start playing football in England, and knowing that if I win that league, I get promoted to the next one and the next one. And no one can stand there and say we can’t get promoted because you are a Scottish club.
“Could you imagine the income generation Rangers and Celtic would create in the Conference? Every Conference stadium would be full. And then to work through the leagues over the next three or four years would refresh English football because this staleness that is affecting Scottish football is prevalent here.”
Ironically, as payers of taxes to the British treasury, Green insists Rangers have the right to play in England.
“Under European law, (stopping us) is categorically a restraint of trade,” he claimed. “It is clearly the same law as Bosman. If people think that is right, they are in cloud cuckoo land because it is not right. I am an outspoken Yorkshirman, I call a spade a spade and I say it. Others whisper in corners and I think it is wrong.
“Now if we are not good enough, and the Football League clubs vote that they don’t want us in, I accept that. That is fine. But don’t tell me there is a law that is outside of the laws of this country and outside of the laws of the EU.
“I don’t ever want to go to court. The club secretary is in contact with the FA to try to fix an appointment for me to meet them. This is not Cheryl Cole v Ashley Cole. We want to talk face to face.”
The destruction wrought by Gavin Masterton on Scottish football and on the reputation of Scottish banking and on the public purse ought to be major news stuff for all of our journos. What has been so depressing about Calderwood’s revelation is that the MSM are actively conspiring to ignore it and to ignore Charlotte 18 and all that that reveals about the true workings both of finance and football in this country.
Three of the actual journalists with some vestiges of reputation left – at least by Scottish MSM standards – they print stuff they actually compose themselves and can, when the mood takes them give cogent and interesting perspectives, namely Tom English Graham Spiers and Richard Gordon have all revealed that such is the endemic and almost totalitarian nature of the corruption within the Scottish game that something as shocking as a chairman of one club offering the managership of a rival club to someone with a view to further employ at his club and a further revelation that the financier of the clubs – specifically Masterton – was “kinda running” two other clubs is a “non story”.
One does wonder what level of corruption and financial chicanery may actually constitute a story that is worth reporting for these esteemed journalists.
What it reveals is that the entire game – the entire finance sector in Edinburgh and the entire governmental and legal structures underpinning them are rotten to the core in Scotland. We are in truth no different from the Caribbean banana republics highlighted fascinatingly on these pages by Barcabhoy and others.
A side issue I know, but as regards independence – an ideal for which I have huge sympathy, if not for the tawdry vision offered by Salmond and his cohorts – Scotland is run sadly by a bunch of self serving hopelessly compromised corrupt individuals – not saying other countries are not – but at best you would simply replace one bunch of self serving compromised politicians serving their financial backers with another.
Brian McHugh says:
Can anyone translate this?
“The fans’ expectation for performances won’t change but the team has changed more dramatically in 12 months than it has in our entire history.”
Ally McCoist
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Allow me:
“Leaving aside the vexed question of unbroken history for one moment, I should like to apologise to all Rangers fans and Scottish football and society as a whole for the insidious moral vacuum that has enveloped this club. In our collective failings as an institution, we have debased sport, we have debased the social contract and we have wholly and unremittingly debased ourselves.
In accepting that our actions will necessarily have generated some considerable ill-will, as manager of this club it is nevertheless beholden upon me to remind all neutrals that there exists a great many decent Rangers fans – including the exasperated man who is putting these words into my mouth for the benefit of readers of the Scottish Football Monitor – who have struggled implacably to have their voices heard above the siren wails of a righteous self-pity and foam-flecked calls for vengeance. To these true fans, ashamed and appalled at the evasion of taxes and fraudulent dealings, humiliated that the club they love so much would seek to classify the desire to see this wrongdoing punished as some sort of persecution, I offer my sincerest apologies for any part I may have played in dragging the name of their club into the gutter.
And to these true fans, born into the tradition as children, unable to simply ditch the team they love, helpless in the face of their own infatuation whilst remaining steadfastly disgusted by the merest hint of sectarian bile that has so often scarred the face their beloved Rangers, I should also like to explain the performance against Stirling Albion: We were shite. No excuses. And I’m sorry about that, as well.”
For myself at least – perhaps one unexpected outcome from the RTC and TSFM sites in particular is the highlighting of – alleged – corruption in Scotland.
As we get older, wiser (?), and more cynical we can see e.g. politicians for what they really are. The MP expenses scandal simply highlighted how this despicable group of parasites operate in a supposedly modern society.
Two years ago I would have dismissed out of hand that there was any suspicion about the integrity and impartiality of the judicial system. Now I honestly don’t know what to believe.
Combined with the BBC, newspaper hacking and Iraq WMD scandals why would anyone believe anything from the authorities?
Whilst all the above cannot be placed at TRFC’s door – perhaps in some weird way the Govan mob has done us a favour?
I have learned a lot over the last two years – and I think I now have a healthier suspicion about Scottish politicians, judges, football administrators, retired bankers etc…
Maybe ‘Charlotte 18’ is the unexpected ‘key’ which can help unlock ‘Pandora’s box’ about what has really been going on in recent years in Scottish football? (To be clear – just speculation on my part.)
Charlotte 18 was always the key, I knew this ten years ago, but the whole point of a BVI company is total privacy. It’s the proverbial brick wall 🙁
StevieBC says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 00:59
“…Two years ago I would have dismissed out of hand that there was any suspicion about the integrity and impartiality of the judicial system. Now I honestly don’t know what to believe…”
—–
Join the club!
I have been looking for any comment from SupportersDirect Scotland on the extraordinary Calderwood statement.
I have found none.
Was I wrong to have expected an organisation which is publicly funded to help sustain and bolster community interest and participation in the viability of Scottish football to pass comment?
Even if the comment were to be limited to a ” we note what has been said and will be calling for an investigation “?
Is everybody connected with Scottish football as a manager, player, reporter, broadcaster, director, owner or fans’ representative body or whatever, gagged by fear of reprisals from one particular quarter (whether from those be-suited thugs who emit dog whistles or their ‘better class’, perhaps even ennobled or otherwise titled, city gents , politicians and other crafty peepul) ?
I’m still in Oz, incidentally, where it is 12.15 pm.
Tommy says:
Sunday, March 24, 2013 at 17:03
12 0 Rate This
With Barcelona being on Champions League duty that evening it’s a dilemma for The Rangers’ supporters. Do they watch a masterclass of skill with the ball – or do they stay at home and tune into Sky Sports
————————
On the other hand, they may actually enjoy watching a team like Barcelona pump the opposition on the back of the huge mountain of debt that has, of course, given Barca no sporting advantage whatsoever.
Morning All.
So Charlie’s at it again.The old “Move to England” trick.
It seems he’s arranging this for Celtic also.and has two clubs volunteering to close down especially for us.
the revelation that TRFC have ony made £10k for 15 live games is more important.Cash must be running out!.
The rhetoric is getting more desperate by the day.A smaller than expected crowd for the world record Sash Bash on 10th April(CL live on the telly) may have consquences no TRFC fan gould have forseen(but everyone else did).
From the DR
Ironically, as payers of taxes to the British treasury, Green insists Rangers have the right to play in England. He added: “Under European law, (stopping us) is a restraint of trade. It is the same law as Bosman. If people think that’s right, they’re in cloud cuckoo land because it’s not right.
Just how insulting to Scottish peoples’ intelligence will they be before this diatribe is stopped?
Just how low will these arrogant con-men sink too, to make money and sell newspapers?
……words fail me.
paranoidmotherwellfan says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 01:36
16 0 Rate This
Charlotte 18 was always the key, I knew this ten years ago, but the whole point of a BVI company is total privacy. It’s the proverbial brick wall
================================
Every wall has a weak point. If enough people push at it then it will appear.
Tomtom’s first law of physics 😀
Oh, well! At least the Mirror article does state (under the photo of Charles with his scarf in hands) that he formed a NEW CLUB. About as much balance as can be expected but I am sure these words slipped through in error.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 00:02
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/exclusive-glasgow-rangers-celtic-playing-1783049
Ironically, as payers of taxes to the British treasury, Green insists Rangers have the right to play in England.
————————————————
“Ironically” barely does it justice. Maybe “sarcastically” would be a more appropriate word?
“This is not Cheryl Cole v Ashley Cole”
it’s a bit George Cole though.
“I don’t want to go into the Premier League,” Green claimed. “It would be wrong. If the Premier League sent me an invite saying we could start next year, I would turn it down.
If anyone is looking to get shown the door (for the right price) it is Charles.
Now I appreciate the desire for sporting integrity like the best of them, but what CEO in their right mind would turn down a once in a lifetime opportunity to join one of the biggest leagues in football but more importantly what would his shareholders say?
Is Charlie saying the long terms plan for T’Rangers is to get back into the top flight of Scottish football in 3 seasons time with a chance of Euro qualification then dump all that for another three or four year slog to get to from Conference to the EPL.
IMHO more chance of a frachised Euro Football League starting before that scenario.
Naw more smoke and mirrors from Mr Green.
One wonders how long the Bears are going to keep falling for this.
When can we next expect a boradroom dust up with Malcolm?
Similarly when are the investors going to question if he has a handle on his brief.
Once again I head back to the Dragon’s Den and remind myself that the Dragon’s like to get an idea of when their return will materialise. If it is too far down the line then they’re out.
The question is with the share price having just fallen below the initial IPO lauch figure who is going to buy?
They might be best to start praying for a sugar daddy to come over the hill to the rescue.
willmacufree says:
abigboydiditandranaway says:
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) s
Not sure where to start with all the points made, many points I agree with, and I take full responsibility for a clumsy post in the first place, whose context may have been more in my head than on these pages. Apologies too for going off topic, or at least going back to Friday.
Regarding the ref at the Dundee United semi-final in Rome, straight forward case of corrupt officials, the offending party have since admitted as much, the point I was making was that a useful method of covering the corruption would be to chalk off a ‘goal’ with a marginal offside call. The chairman of Roma paid 50k to ensure a victory by 3 goals, and that is what he got! The Scotland v Italy ref, was this a similar case? I doubt it was brown envelopes containing cash, but I have a healthy scepticism regarding the UEFA play offs, from the draw, which paired big v small, ensuring commercial interests were looked after, then to the games, and the bizarre refereeing at Hampden or infamous Henry hand ball being cases in point. Officials can be pressured and psychologically conditioned to ensure the big team gets the desired results and commercial sponsors are not left ‘disappointed’ 😉
The second part of the post was regarding Celtic’s ‘persecution complex’. Let me take to back to an experience I had some years ago. Many of my family and friends are Celtic fans, and I think I have some idea of how a significant section of Celtic fans feel about the prevailing culture of Scottish football, I was reared in it. I attended a party in the local church hall (circa 1986) and got into a conversation with two Celtic fans who I had never met before. The conversation was pleasant enough and we began to discuss the nature of Scottish football. The opined, that Scottish football, and Scottish society is profoundly anti Celtic and that ‘the Lodge’ ran everything to the extent that Jim McLean, and Alex Ferguson, clearly ‘Rangers men’ who were simply obeying orders from the Lodge, their mission was to prevent Celtic winning everything till Rangers are back on their feet, enter Souness to save Scotland from the tyranny of a dominant Celtic (bout 20 years too late? ;))…. And David Narey cries himself to sleep each night because Jim McLean was preventing him playing for his one true love, and various other eccentric, fanciful, paranoid delusions were aired.
I was reminded of this conversation when the issue of Calderwood’s appointment was discussed on these pages and elsewhere, no doubt there are those who will see this situation as proof that RFC ‘run’ Scottish football and fans of other clubs are merely Rangers fans without the bus fare, Dunfermline lay doon, etc, etc. Such a reading of Scottish football has served Celtic well on a level….siege mentality, persecution complex, paranoia….call it what you will. Every club endures bad calls in games, or has a bad call from the authorities, but no other club fetishizes this situation more than Celtic. That was what I meant by ontological security, the sense of order, and even comfort experienced when ‘you truly understand’ the nature of the circumstance, in this case a narrative of persecution. Additionally such a reading ignores the inconvenient fact that Celtic are part of a duopoly that has dominated the Scottish game for decades at a time, and never more so than the era of the SPL. By the mid 1990’s the dynamic of the ‘Old Firm’ became crucial, just as the G18 clubs of Europe realised that national leagues remained the most important thing to their fans, and that interest in European leagues could not be advanced beyond the Champion’s League group stages. The SPL was rigged to ensure the lion’s share of cash stayed in Glasgow, not a huge amount of cash to either Glasgow club but crucially, the provincial clubs would never have enough resources to sustain a realistic or sustainable challenge to the Glasgow giants. This virtually guaranteed the Euro cash, helicopter Sundays and Old Firm finals (the ones we all want to see! copyright C Adams) in perpetuity. Shamefully the ‘top’ clubs went along with this, no doubt egged on by Mr Masterton’s lure of free money and the promise of crumbs from the top table. Celtic can, with clear justification point to the crimes of their evil twin, but none the less they are a powerful and influential constituency in the Scottish game, and the persecution agenda is probably holding them back, especially just now, when the more sensible Celtic fans should be planning a 10 in a row celebration.
Scottish football is not a monolithic entity, (neither are Celtic I accept) the SFA, SFL, SPL, all the clubs, are subject to internal tensions and contradictions with clubs in particular, trying to maintain a balancing act regarding a challenging financial climate and unprecedented turbulence regarding an adherence to any semblance of ‘sporting integrity’. I maintain a degree of sympathy for the clubs who have had the unenviable task of trying to deliver a workable path forward from this mess, but those who set up the SPL and a few fellow travellers, take a substantial share of responsibility for the disastrous ‘corporate turn’ and subsequent lack of adequate corporate governance. It’s simply not accurate or sufficient to blame a perceived pro-Rangers or anti Celtic agenda.
So yes I had a jibe a Celtic, but as a non-Celtic fan the discourse of persecution can occasionally grate, and surely it is healthy now and again to think about the rest of Scottish football not just the happenings in Govan.
Danish Pastry says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 07:55
17 1 Rate This
On the other hand, they may actually enjoy watching a team like Barcelona pump the opposition on the back of the huge mountain of debt that has, of course, given Barca no sporting advantage whatsoever.
————–
Thank you to whoever my TDer is. In this case I consider it a badge of honour.
“Why would football clubs or football authorities not want Rangers and Celtic?” responded Green.
——
“Let me count the ways.”
Before I retired I was involved with a few high value purchases for IT services/ equipment that had to abide by EU Competition rules.
I formed the view then that the EPL was operating as a cartel that was challengeable under those rules, particularly as there are no borders in the UK making a favourable decision a non precedent for other European countries.
I assumed it had been looked at by both Celtic and Rangers but not pursued because the case would be lost.
However I now think it was because the devil both clubs knew was better than the one they did not and that UEFA might take action against both clubs for going to law.
Well the devil we now know is totally unattractive and CG’ s club have little to fear from UEFA whose position has also softened over time.
So I would be quite happy if CG takes the legal route because a victory opens doors that are unfairly closed and if it does not then compensation for being excluded can be sought.
Win, win.
Auldheid,any developments in your approaches to UEFA re.LNS et al?
I notice that the share price of Rangers International continues to drop. Now at 74.60p.
What will be the emotional reaction of ordinary fans who invested (threw their money down the pan) when it drops below the purchase price I wonder? Especially as the timing may be around the time they are also asked to stump up for season tickets for next year.
angus1983 says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 09:56
0 1 Rate This
“Why would football clubs or football authorities not want Rangers and Celtic?” responded Green.
——
“Let me count the ways.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I suppose it’s good that he doesn’t want to enter at the top of the pyramid (that would be incredibly embarrassing) , but why does he want to enter in the Conference, half way up the pyramid? Why not at the bottom?
iceman63 says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 00:25
The destruction wrought …
——————————–
Please don’t attack one party as if they are the only ones responsible. Labour were in power for a long period while this was going on. What I’d like to see is a political party instigating an investigation (a proper one, not the usual whitewash) into what went on in our financial institutions these last 20 years. I’d vote for that party.
luoanlai says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 10:41
I think most fans who threw there dosh in were doing so to make sure the club was around.
I don’t think too many are looking for a return nor will they be overly concerned about the share price dropping as long as their is a team on the park.
However a good number were probably saying at the share issue, “well if there are all these institutional investors willing to bail us out, let them put in thier cash and let’s see what happens next”. They will probably be willing to buy season tickets having saved their £500 last Christmas.
As I have long said it really is more about the cash flow and performance on the park than share price.
Thats being said the share price heading south ain’t gonna help get more investment or favours from the banks.
They are eating into the IPO cash and, as you say, the club now need the fans to buy season tickets and both of the new strips when they get launched for next season.
However fans aren’t convinced about the product on the park nor do they know what division they will be playing in next season. With that uncertainty the season tickets will not go on sale anytime soon and even if they took a flier at it, take up would be slow until reconstruction was resolved. Therefore more IPO money spent on day to day costs until review streams come on line.
Suppose there is a challenge under EU law, and that the outcome is that the English leagues cannot discriminate against non-English EU-based teams by denying them access. Fair enough, but what next? Would Rangers (and potentally Celtic) be granted access? But why not PSG? Ajax? Bruges? Anderlecht? Malmo? Surely any clubs within the EU, and particularly those within relatively close geographical proximity would also be able to make a case for inclusion. Marc Bosman opened up freedom of player movement between clubs, but did not gain from it himself in the ways others did.
C Green seems to assume that Rangers would be included, even if at the lowest levels of the English game. But even there, they would not necessarily be welcomed – in Scotland, when push comes to shove, the Spartans of this world are just rudely shoved aside to make way for them, but that is not a given in England. It is a certainty that the indigenous teams would be wary of potentially losing a promotion place for a season to a bloated ‘big boy’ from Scotland. And again, why should teams from Belgium, France etc not apply? A supporters’ day out in Lille or Copenhagen might seem a bit more exotic than one in Glasgow.
Also, Rangers huffing and puffing their way up the Scottish leagues has hardly made for riveting TV viewing, although they managed to sell the narrative to Sky that it would be of interest. Working their way through the English conference under the media spotlight would risk being a very thin story indeed after a while. And if there was any hint of a ‘Manchester’ from the fans as they made their way up, in Torquay, Accrington or anywhere else, the English media would be much less liable to being controlled than the Scottish one.
So if CG is trying to persuade investors to stick with their investment in the face of a miserably poor team, who seem to have found their level against Stirling Albion (no offence), because there will be a feast tomorrow…the main course is likely to be pie in the sky.
I agree Auldheid. We tend to forget that European legislation permits not only freedom of labour movement but also a fair and free market within company law, procurement and access to markets. It may well be that a case pursued by a Scottish company could challenge the current set up, after all it was the case of Morton’s Danny Diver and his dispute with the Belgian club R.R.C. Tournaisien in the late 1980s over player registration that contributed to the legal framework for the Bosman ruling. But there are exemptions e.g. in the arts where it is assumed that arts funding lies outside State Aid criteria. Might football be seen as exempt or might EU conditions of national subidiarity apply. So much to argue over it will not be a qucik fix and will not happen in Charles Green era that’s for sure. I think we may move to a twin track system where clubs are deemed as pan-European or local. I will be ‘shopping’ locally whatever the outcome.
wottpi says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 09:29
“I don’t want to go into the Premier League,” Green claimed. “It would be wrong. If the Premier League sent me an invite saying we could start next year, I would turn it down.
If anyone is looking to get shown the door (for the right price) it is Charles.
Now I appreciate the desire for sporting integrity like the best of them, but what CEO in their right mind would turn down a once in a lifetime opportunity to join one of the biggest leagues in football but more importantly what would his shareholders say?
Is Charlie saying the long terms plan for T’Rangers is to get back into the top flight of Scottish football in 3 seasons time with a chance of Euro qualification then dump all that for another three or four year slog to get to from Conference to the EPL.
IMHO more chance of a frachised Euro Football League starting before that scenario.
Naw more smoke and mirrors from Mr Green.
One wonders how long the Bears are going to keep falling for this.
When can we next expect a boradroom dust up with Malcolm?
Similarly when are the investors going to question if he has a handle on his brief.
Once again I head back to the Dragon’s Den and remind myself that the Dragon’s like to get an idea of when their return will materialise. If it is too far down the line then they’re out.
The question is with the share price having just fallen below the initial IPO lauch figure who is going to buy?
They might be best to start praying for a sugar daddy to come over the hill to the rescue.
———————————————————————————————————————————-
assuming that the £7million loss, is not actually lost, then the “investors” have to wait for upwards of £7million “profit”, to at least look to be back on track for a financial return?
anybody know what has happened to the supposed winding up order from the form that “found” the investors?
Hmmm, CG better get a move on, the Independence referendum could well scupper his moves to playing in England – it may well be a foreign country soon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8789682.stm
In light of another poor performance from the Scotland team. Article from 2010.
Any sign of this kind of joined up thinking from Scotland?
———————————————-
By Jurgen Klinsmann
World Cup-winning striker, former Germany coach and BBC pundit
Germany have impressed everyone with their attacking displays en route to the semi-finals of this World Cup.
But it is only six years ago that, like England this summer, they were returning home early from a major tournament and wondering what the future held.
Germany had to rebuild after the disaster of the 2004 European Championship in Portugal. We did not win a game and failed to get out of our group.
I got the chance to decide on the direction we took when I agreed to take over as Germany coach that summer, with current manager Joachim Loew as my assistant.
‘Jogi’ and I began the whole regeneration process by trying to give our national team an identity.
We eventually decided to go down an attack-minded route, passing the ball on the ground from the back to the front line as quickly as possible using dynamic football.
Klinsmann and Loew designed a new blueprint for German football
From that, we created a style of play that this Germany team in South Africa now really lives and breathes. Since 2004, we have reached two World Cup semi-finals and the final of Euro 2008.
Can England recover from their poor showing in South Africa as quickly as Germany did six years ago? Yes, but they cannot just copy the German style and expect that to succeed for them.
Every nation has its own culture and specific environment as well as its own footballing identity. England have to develop their own vision and decide how they should play.
As I found, making that vision work is not an easy process. It will take time and England’s results might not be positive while it takes effect.
England will also need the help of the Premier League. Every club coach will have their own philosophy but I tried to work with those in the Bundesliga to build something together.
There are a lot of foreign players and managers in England but that should not make a difference. You simply have to explain to them what the style of play is that you want to develop and be prepared to persevere.
When Jogi and I took over the German side, we made our plans very public and made it clear that we were trying to rebuild from the bottom up.
The German Football Association (DFB) helped us by putting a lot of pressure on all the first and second division teams in the Bundesliga to build academy programmes and ensure talented young players were coming through but we still had to decide on our playing style.
Whatever approach the England team decides on, everybody in the English game needs to sign up to it
To do that, we quizzed everyone we could.
We held workshops with German coaches and players, asking them to write down on flip charts three things: how they wanted to play, how they wanted to be seen to be playing by the rest of the world and how the German public wanted to see us playing.
If we could define all of that, we thought we could lay out how we wanted to work and then, from there, sort out the training and paperwork behind the scenes.
What we ended up with amounted to 10 or 12 bullet points laying out our proposals. We then announced that it was our intention to play a fast-paced game, an attacking game and a proactive game.
That last term was something the Germans did not really like because they did not really understand what proactive meant. We just told them it meant we did not react to what our opponents did, we played the way that was right for us.
Once we had done all that, we created a curriculum for German football and presented it to the Bundesliga and DFB boards.
At that point, I told them I did not have the time to implement the strategy at all levels because I only had two years to prepare for the World Cup, so I asked for Germany’s Under-21 team to adopt it and that was it.
I brought in a former international team-mate of mine, Dieter Eilts, to run the under-21s and said they had to play the same way as the senior team because they would be a feeder for it.
I was always looking long-term but I knew our plans would be measured by our success at the 2006 World Cup.
There was a lot of negative media at the start. Everybody agreed German football had to change after 2004 but nobody actually wanted to adopt our proposals.
For example, we told the Bundesliga teams and coaches that their players needed to be fitter to play the kind of football we wanted to play.
Germany thrashed England 4-1 in the quarter-finals
That meant carrying out fitness tests every three months, which did not go down well with some clubs because I was able to prove that some of them were training their players properly and others were not.
I was basically doubted for the two years I was coach – and when we lost 4-1 to Italy in a friendly game three months before the 2006 World Cup, everybody wanted my blood!
We had another game three weeks later against the United States and we won that one 4-1.
That victory saved my job and kept me in charge for the World Cup because the DFB had been ready to make a change. They wanted the conservative approach again, not the revolution.
But I kept on being positive, explaining that this was how I wanted us to play. I did not know if we would master it in time for the 2006 World Cup but we would give it a shot.
We had the players for four solid weeks before the tournament began and were able to get our thoughts across. They agreed to train the way we wanted them to and do extra work. Soon they started to believe in the system.
That was crucial because, no matter what your job is, you need to identify yourself with the work that you are doing and be happy.
I was happy because, as a former striker, I liked the style we intended to play. I could never coach a team that played defensive-minded football.
I also think the players understood that I was the one taking the risk and that if it did not work out the DFB would send me packing back to California!
We started well at the 2006 World Cup and the public began to feel that something special was going to happen.
In the second game, when we beat Poland with a last-minute goal, the whole nation embraced us and said “yeah, that’s our team and that’s how we want them to play”. We lost in the semi-final against Italy but I was still very proud.
After that World Cup, I was burned out after two years of banging my head against a wall but I made it clear to the DFB that Jogi had to take over after me to continue the job we had started.
He has continued to develop that initial style of play and is enjoying success. It has taken Germany six years to learn to play it properly – and it has developed along the way – but the players are completely comfortable with it now.
Germany’s style of play might work for England because, in a way, Germany now play a lot like a typical Premier League team, with the emphasis on pacy attacks.
But whatever approach the England team decides on – whether it is attacking or defensive, patient or high tempo – everybody in the English game needs to sign up to it.
After all, it is the players, coaches and clubs who will help to make it work.
Jurgen Klinsmann was speaking to Chris Bevan in Cape Town.
rantinrobin says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 10:40
Auldheid,any developments in your approaches to UEFA re.LNS et al?
_________________________________
I was wondering the same. TSFM made the approach so FIFA should get back to him. I’l check with another guy that also made an approach.
rantinrobiin. Meant to add its a FIFA web site not UEFA.
is sport not excluded from EU regulations of freedom of movement/trade/sex discrimination etc?
However, i’m pretty sure that if the bold charles was to take this to the european courts, then he would win. Sevco (and every other team in europe) would be free to move into the league set up of any country they so chose.
However, that doesn’t necessarily mean they will actually be able to move anywhere
Every league in Europe just now currently has a full compliment of teams – so, how is space made in these leagues (assuming you don’t want to start at the very bottom tier in any given country – i think there are 16 tiers in England!)
So, would a team voluntarily give up one of it’s own members to allow another club who is nothing more than a pauper looking for more cash from a richer league? or would they vote through new proposals to change the set up and entry requirements – maybe adding a new league specifically to entice economic migrants into their league – they may take the view that a big club from a neighbouring country may enrich the lower leagues on their route to the top and then boost the financial deal for the top flight also.
(yeah, i do think it’s funny to think of the WATP followers as economic migrants in another country!)
Also, what would UEFA say about it? Would a club be allowed to “do a swansea” and retain their home nation FA? or would they have to resign it and join their host FA (their goes that history you bought! – although you didn’t ACTUALLY buy it!)
Then, if this did happen, what would stop some rich Arab sheikh oil billionaire simply creating a new league of his own and inviting the 18-20 top clubs in europe to participate – leaving the rest of the existing national leagues without their top teams/supporters or lucrative tv deals?
Would UEFA be able to stop this?
But the most important thing is….and you only need to look to what happened to Jean Marc Bosman for a great example of the future that awaits Sevco…..can Sevco afford it.
1st off, they would be out of the SFA and Scottish League football for raising this action….so for 4-5-6 years – maybe even longer as UEFA would fight this every step of the way to preserve their own position – there would be NO FOOTBALL at all. No club like linfield/hamburg/chelsea could play them in glamour friendlies, no player could sign for them – if they wanted to play football at any club again or take part in national/european football.
How long would it take and how much would it cost – and at the end of it, the result would be waiting 4-5 years to get an invite into the lowest tier of English football – meaning another 15 years to climb through the ranks – it could take nearly 30 years to see your club in the championship in England. a whole generation of supporters would have been lost……..what then?
In the meantime, every other club, who didn’t raise the action, would benefit from the result and would step over your on the way to the new league set up.
Good luck charles, i hope you push ahead with it.
Cheers Auldheid
Jim Leishman: “Gavin Masterton will make announcement on Dunfermline’s future tomorrow.” Options include administration or liquidation
NTHM says
“1st off, they would be out of the SFA and Scottish League football for raising this action….so for 4-5-6 years – ”
Interesting thought, but would our authorities actually take any action?. There has been a conspicuous lack of such so far when some might have been expected or actually required.
I assume you are hoping that if UEFA / FIFA are being legally challenged by a club they would expect the national association to act if it is actually prohibited to go to court instead of going to the CAS, but I’m guessing the SFA would rather face any threat or action from UEFA than risk annoying the establishment club.
One of the things I haven’t actually seen discussed with regard to Green’s move south is costs to English teams having to travel to Ibrox. Obviously this isn’t a significant factor in the higher leagues but would be in lower levels below Conference. Even in the Conference I seem to remember that a Channel Islands team has to pay the traveling costs of visiting teams as a condition of entry to the League.
I don’t have any great knowledge of the English lower leagues but if they are geographically based then the costs issue is a real one. Even at Conference level I’m sure there is a major geographic split.
The absolute failure of our MSM in Scotland is shown by the acres of newsprint wasted on just regurgitating green’s Moonbeams without comment and with no actually analysis of the practicalities and obstacles and I don’t mean the major one of what team is voluntarily going to step aside to allow Rangers free passage.
But perhaps some posters on here with more knowledge of the English pyramid structure might be able to shed some light and who knows perhaps an intrepid Scots journo might pick it up and run with it.
From Rangers Rumours:
25 Mar 2013 10:13:12
“RANGERS have sent a delegation on a top-secret scouting mission to HONDURAS.
No2 Kenny McDowall and agent Dave Baldwin took in the Tegucigalpa derby between Motagua and Olimpia on Saturday.
Sources claim Rangers were in Central America to run the rule over three Motagua players — Bryan Figueroa, Junior Padilla and Omar Elvir.
Motagua’s technical director Julio Gutierrez said: “I think it’s their fourth of fifth visit to check out the talented players in Honduras. ”
———————————————————
This’ll be the first of the Warchest being spent then!
stuartcosgrove says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 11:16
I would like to see the principle established in the UK because there are no borders as the rest of Europe recognises them. As a UK tax payer why should I not enjoy the same “advantages” of the same UK taxpayer in England in terms of the quality of player that can be attracted to my club?.
If the EPL were seen as acting against fair trade they need not necessarily have to open the doors but recognise the harm being done by such a policy and pay an annual compensation to the neighbours in the UK who are denied access.
Of course the irony of the political dimension will not be lost on anyone where a Scottish industry wants to merge with an English one for the greater benefit of all on the basis there are no borders under a UK Parliament, whilst at the same time the country in which that industry operates wishes to escape from that very Parliament on the grounds we are better off on our own. In that respect it will definitely not happen before Sept 18th 2014. 😉
Where that freedom a legal challenge might take us is uncertain but I reckon it could lead to a UK league made up of one or more Central Divisions with regional leagues as feeders in and out. St Johnstone v Blackpool in a play off for entry into a Central division would be an attractive game for many reasons. The freedom to trade more widely would be an adrenalin shot to the heart of a game almost dead.
Of course if a more equitable way of disbursing TV money across Europe could be found then the playing field would level out, perhaps enough not to change existing structures.
How about the EU taxes TV football income at source across Europe and uses it first to pay off tax owed by clubs (and keeps public services going) then when back tax paid use it in lieu of all or part tax due from clubs annually? A user friendly form of tax in that it costs the tax payer nothing more and acts as a deflationary force on players’ wages.
We can have this.
A scene from hell where a visitor looks into one room and sees an emaciated group around a table on which is set a large pot full of stew. They cannot eat because their arms have been set straight at the elbow and elongated so that they cannot get a spoon in their mouths. It is a miserable place.
or this
upstairs the visitor enters a similar room with occupants similarly handicapped, but where everyone is well fed and contented. “How can this be?” he asks his guide. “Well downstairs all their energies are spent in the nigh impossible task of feeding their insatiable hunger, whilst up here they simply feed each other.”
Captain Haddock says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 12:29
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NTHM says
“1st off, they would be out of the SFA and Scottish League football for raising this action….so for 4-5-6 years – ”
Interesting thought, but would our authorities actually take any action?. There has been a conspicuous lack of such so far when some might have been expected or actually required.
I assume you are hoping that if UEFA / FIFA are being legally challenged by a club they would expect the national association to act if it is actually prohibited to go to court instead of going to the CAS, but I’m guessing the SFA would rather face any threat or action from UEFA than risk annoying the establishment club.
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i have NO faith in the SFA doing anything, however, UEFA would not be slow to act under such a challenge – ask Sion and the Swiss FA – the Swiss were threatened with a ban, which could have seen Man U re-instated into the CL ahead of a swiss club and a ban on international games
the Swiss FA promptly acted
Would the SFA? Well, the ball would firmly fall into Celtics court then – are celtic going to allow the loss of CL income so that Sevco can seek a way to leave scottish football? I dno’t see the SFA taking too long to act before facing actions from Celtic and UEFA.
I have said for a long time that a franchised Euro Football League for the top teams is on the cards sometime in the future.
What chance that some of the ECA clubs are encouraging Charlie to challenge the status quo and test the water for setting up a pan european league?
(Remember all those free flights and hotels in Qatar recently 🙂 )
They get a desprerate club to act as the stooge and take all the flak and cost of legal action etc and if it all goes pear shaped then none of the big clubs are implicated.
That is of course until James Traynor writes the book.
It appears Mr Green is not as daft as he looks. He might very well coin it in on the Linfield friendly after all, despite it clashing with Champions League footie on telly that evening. I’m hearing that those bears who signed up for priority tickets (cup matches) in their season ticket renewal applications are now being automatically issued with tickets for the 10th April love-in. Many of the supporters are not happy that Mr Green has debited their accounts under false pretences. However, there doesn’t seem to be much they can do about it though, as such fixtures are buried in the small print of the ST application.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 11:43
is sport not excluded from EU regulations of freedom of movement/trade/sex discrimination etc?
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Interestingly enough back in 2007 football tried to argue that the specificity of sport argument excluded football from having to follow EU legislation to which the EU said “No way” although they did recognise there would be cases where application of legilsation might be inappropriate. So they decided to adopt a case by case approach but have continued to be involved in all sporting issues as can be seen at
http://ec.europa.eu/sport/white-paper/swd-the-organisation-of-sport_en.htm#4_7
I had tracked progress up to the introduction of UEFA FFP but am not sure how far the onging work has progressed.
In browsing through the link I found this on club licensing – the greatest area of SFA failure in recent years and another hurdle the face after 30th April in issuing The Rangers with a national club licence. Here is what the EU policy document says on licensing.
The club licensing system for UEFA’s football competitions provides an example.[35] This self-regulatory approach is considered by UEFA to be a key initiative to improve the governance and financial management of football in Europe. In its report on the future of professional football in Europe, adopted in March 2007, the European Parliament expresses firm support for the UEFA club licensing system and calls on UEFA to further develop this system in compliance with Community law in order to guarantee financial transparency and proper management. It also considers that “diverging national legislation and licensing criteria in Europe cause an uneven playing field, economically and legally, and this situation seriously hampers fair sports competition between teams in European leagues, and hence also between national teams”.
Licensing systems represent a compromise between the traditional openness of competitions in Europe, where access is allegedly based only on sporting merits, and the alternative approach of closed competitions in professional leagues, where the “financial” merit is preponderant. Licensing systems thus represent an evolution of the so-called European approach to sport, where sport merit remains the main criterion for a club to be entitled to participate in often highly professionalized competitions while having equally to fulfil a set of minimum financial and management standards. This should ultimately improve the financial and social sustainability of clubs.
Licensing systems generally aim to ensure that all clubs respect the same basic rules on financial management and transparency, but could also include provisions regarding discrimination, violence, protection of minors and training.
The usefulness of robust licensing systems should be acknowledged for professional clubs at European and national levels. Such systems must be compatible with competition and Internal Market provisions and may not go beyond what is necessary for the pursuit of a legitimate objective relating to the proper organisation and conduct of sport. The principle of proportionality must be respected.
Efforts need to concentrate on the implementation and gradual reinforcement of licensing systems. In the case of football, where a licensing system will soon be compulsory for clubs entering European competitions, action needs to concentrate on promoting and encouraging the use of licensing systems AT NATIONAL LEVEL.
I highlight this as club licensing gives the SFA power over clubs to conform in the interests of sustainability and it would be good to know what the SFA’s latest position on licensing is and how they will approach this years round.
wottpi says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 09:29
“I don’t want to go into the Premier League,” Green claimed. “It would be wrong. If the Premier League sent me an invite saying we could start next year, I would turn it down.
——
A nice little piece of spin there from Mr Green. Obviously, the audience is supposed to think he’s being just a little bit humble by not demanding entry at the level the average bear deludedly thinks TRFC should actually be admitted.
However, can you imagine TRFC in the EPL next season? Scores would be of the order which some expected at Ibrox this year – but in the opposite direction. Immediate relegation, further demoralisation, probably relegation for a couple of years running. Share price heads beyond the south pole – if TRFC last that long.
Of course he wouldn’t want to be invited into the EPL.
hmmmmmm
just wondering
will the uncertainty about league reconstruction prevent CG’s Sevco sending out ST renewals?
And if not, will he be increasing the price (as promised) because they have been promoted (no reconstruction) or will he be increasing the price (as promised) because they have been promoted (with reconstruction)
I can see CG backtracking quite sharpish to justify the price increase…suddenly the “3rd tier” will be a promotion in order to justify a ST increase……guess we’ll have to wait and see
If Charles Green gets his way and joins the English Football Leagues ( NO CHANCE). The Rangers would have to start in the Northern League Div One, it would take them at least 4 years to get into the Conference.. If they were good enough to beat the likes of Spennymoor and West Auckland Town, World Cup Winners 🙂 even Rangers never won a World Cup unless Charlie bought one..
would be good to know what the SFA’s latest position on licensing is and how they will approach this years round.
angus1983 says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 13:17
—————–
Refuse invitation to The EPL?
I would say he would also refuse an invitation to The SPL given the current restrictions.
Should the SFA call Charles’ bluff?
once again he states that his Sevco will be leaving for England
well, why don’t the SFA help pack his bags and not renew his membership. He has no wish/desire to stay, is only interested in money for his club and not the game and he continually talks down the product
why are we entertaining him? cut him loose and let him embark on a wonderful new adventure making friends wherever he goes
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 11:43
How long would it take and how much would it cost – and at the end of it, the result would be waiting 4-5 years to get an invite into the lowest tier of English football – meaning another 15 years to climb through the ranks – it could take nearly 30 years to see your club in the championship in England. a whole generation of supporters would have been lost……..what then?
======================
They’ll be supporting the colts (two teams of the best 22 players left in Scotland – ignore this blooding the kids crap) thus bringing their own unique type of ‘benefit’ to the Scottish game.
And whilst I’m on a rant – should Thistle/Morton not be a tad disappointed in an authority who have presumably sanctioned a ‘glamour friendly’ at a venue pretty much halfway between their two grounds on the same night as a decider? Bad enough the CL ties on tv, not much they can do about them but come on!
“Why would football clubs or football authorities not want Rangers and Celtic?”
http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/old-firm-absence-leads-to-drop-in-domestic-violence-1-2841538
Mods. Please feel free to remove prvious comment from the site. Posted by mistake. Was meant for another site. Sorry.
Monday, March 25, 2013 at
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iceman63 says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 00:25
The destruction wrought …
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Please don’t attack one party as if they are the only ones responsible. Labour were in power for a long period while this was going on. What I’d like to see is a political party instigating an investigation (a proper one, not the usual whitewash) into what went on in our financial institutions these last 20 years. I’d vote for that party.
_______________________
So would I !
My attack was not party political – other than incredible disappointment that the populist, headline seeking, unprincipled, opposition driven culture of Westminster has been repeated by all of the parties at Holyrood even bizarrely the ones in power at Holyrood, and that an Independent Scotland would, it seems to me, follow the same pathway of negative sterility.
On the actual question of Independence itself I suspect that like many I am fairly ambivalent – holding it as an aspiration, but being despairing of the proposal outlined with its membership of NATO, the EU and keeping the crown and the pound thereby immediately neutering the new state before it even comes into being – anyway back to the football methinks!
torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 12:31
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From Rangers Rumours:
25 Mar 2013 10:13:12
“RANGERS have sent a delegation on a top-secret scouting mission to HONDURAS.
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So much for keeping it a secret then 😀
More chance of them going to visit Honda’s”r”us to ask them to take some track-side advertising. Saturday’s adverts were like an issue of exchange and mart with some local takeaways and car washes thrown in.
iceman63 says:
Monday, March 25, 2013 at 15:32
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Monday, March 25, 2013 at
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I agree with you. The SNP have got so caught up in the politics they’re starting to crop their own intergrity (no doubt based on Blairite think tanks and focus groups) by trying to be all things to all folk. That’s why there’s only a cigarette paper (do they still have these?) between the main parties these days.
If you believe in independence then don’t put all these caveats on it. We’d never have got the limted national government we have these days if they’d thought that way in the past.
Interesting article on reconstruction of Scottish football. Quite a long article but some really good ideas.
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/636546550?-11344:801