The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
Just a reminder of what Barcabhoy said :-
Saturday, November 24, 2012 at 11:55
I remember Barcabhoy when commenting on the nuclear event said that the story was not his to tell. I remember the use of the word story. There was no
suggestion that the story was confirmed by information available to the media.
RTC confirmed that he was aware of the nuclear event and verified Barcabhoy’s claim that it was indeed nuclear.
Found the Barcabhoy posting from KDS:
“What may be of interest to him, and others, is that the very worst of the offenses committed by Rangers have yet to be properly put into the public domain.
In fact they haven’t been put there at all.
They will be and when they are, they will be beyond belief. In fact I had a problem believing it myself initially. At the point of disclosure I very much look
forward to reading Adam’s efforts to put forward the alternative view.It’s not my story so i can’t control the disclosure timescale, but when it comes out it
will be nuclear
Just to make this clear, what has still to come out is worse than illegally registering players, is worse than using VAT and PAYE as cash-flow, is worse than
deliberately not paying fellow clubs, is worse than deliberately abusing the EBT system
its much worse……
My advice to those who know what they have done……don’t walk away…….run away as fast as you can,preferably to somewhere without an extradition treaty
with the UK……because you know what you have done, and you know that its coming out.”
I think Celtic this season were brilliant against the giants of Europe. Barca, full of great players are a truly one dimensional small team in the way they play and Juv…I have never known Celtic to have so many chances against such a quality team, just a pity that hooper spent the whole night getting involved in nonsense.
none of them deserve to progress.
Talking of Thistle, I had a look at the great John Lambie’s Wikipedia page. I think someone might be taking the mickey with his supposed nickname:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lambie_(footballer_born_1940)
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 18:22
Questions –
If the police are investigating CW’s initial takeover and eventually this initial takeover is deemed illegal, this would then presumably remove all CW’s hold over the assets;
Would that clear the way for SDM to return as the ‘rightful’ owner, removing all the spivs in one fell swoop?
Or does it get even messier and more complicated?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
FD
“Would that clear the way for SDM to return as the ‘rightful’ owner, removing all the spivs in one fell swoop?”
Thats such a good example of an oxymoron it ought to be in the dictionary
Seriously
I reckon SDM has had enough of Ibrox
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I wouldn`r be a bit surprised if todays raids are also seeking information relating to Operation Hornet which is a wider inquiry into malpractice in the Banking industry
http://www.ianfraser.org/corruption-allegations-major-fraud-inquiries-links-to-pornographic-magazines-and-a-luxury-yacht-welcome-to-the-world-of-banking-2012/
Operation Hornet may even be investigating how MIM managed to run up a bank debt approaching £900m
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I also doubt whether Whyte will be charged with anything arising from the takeover deal.
He is a very astute Spiv and may just have stayed on the right side of the law throughout the saga
Indeed
For all we know Whyte could be a material witness for Operation Hornet
Particularly if he has “inadvertently” taped conversations with anybody who worked in HBOS or RBS during good times
Evening all.
I have been away for a couple of days and it would appear that things have moved on considerably!
So– Whyte passes £137,500 to Ahmed’s mammy just after Ahmed funds £200k deposit.
Early passes Charlie Green £25k just before Charlie invests £25k into Sevco 5088 Ltd!
Green signs exclusivity deal and immediately sends a text to Whyte saying “I’ve signed”. and Whyte replies “well done”.
Ahmed has received £178k plus £50K back and Green received all £25k back but Whytie gets nothing.
Then Ticketus get a ruling against Whytie which will bust him.
Remind me who funded ticketus just days before they passed money to Whyte so he could do the original deal with Murray?
And has that info now fallen into the hands of Inspector plod?
Oh and did Whytie not claim that the whole Ticketus deal had been set up by Murray before he even came on the scene?
Then again maybe I am a cynic!
jonnyod says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:05
No worries, and forgive me if you think I was having a pop.
It’s just that the distinction helps explain why they thought their claim survived insolvency.
It also shows just how mad Craig Whyte’s “plan” was. A club which already couldn’t make ends meet by £10m without CL group participation would have lost ticket income of something like £7m a year for 4 years.
Remember he went on to bump HMRC for about £10m in six months, just to pay the bills, even before the season ticket thing kicked in the following season.
It absolutely did not work, on a myriad of levels. He would have been as well calling it “Draft Contrived Insolvency Plan”.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:32
“Evening all….”
I see what you did there. 🙂
Talk on Twitter of a “members voluntary liquidation” at RIFC. Anyone know anything about that?
Sorry, not Scottish football, but nevertheless, Barcelona surely transcend borders. The BBC just quoted Swansea winger Wayne Routledge: “I don’t ever wanna hear that one player can’t make that much of a difference! Barca are a different animal with the little genius, and Iniesta.”
Errr…isn’t that two players?
posmill says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:40
Showing you age there Posmill
MVL
Members voluntary liquidations are where shareholders (members) choose (voluntary) to put a company into liquidation. These are only suitable for solvent companies (assets > liabilities) so MVLs are distinct from insolvent (liabilities > assets) liquidations which leave debts unpaid.
This may or may not be useful information. I have no inside info.
This is the Nuclear event, the coppers have sussed it out now, Mission accomplished Bampots
The MURRAY BONE is connected to the WHYTE BONE. The Whyte bone is connected to the D&P BONE. The D&P bone is connected to the GREEN BONE…
To clarify
My comments on Cenkos were not related to any Police Raid. I am not aware of a raid at Cenkos
There are however some very unhappy people , who are making very strong allegations about the conduct of a number of the key players
sugar daddy TU TU TU
how absolutely hi-larious it would be if the money men did that to try and get back the cash they poured in
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:52
0 0 Rate This
Sorry, not Scottish football, but nevertheless, Barcelona surely
transcend borders. The BBC just quoted Swansea winger Wayne
Routledge: “I don’t ever wanna hear that one player can’t make
that much of a difference! Barca are a different animal with the
little genius, and Iniesta.”
Errr…isn’t that two players?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aye, but it’s two half pints. Albeit two half pints of Brewdog Tactical Nuclear Penguin!
I note on a link for the crowd at Ibrokes tonight we can see signs with the number of titles cups etc that have been won. Two things, talk about trying to reinforce the lie that this is the same team and surely they would have been better selling that space to advertisers or couldn’t they sell the space.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHgnDRbCEAAF3Og.jpg
On a side note what’s with the International flag wavers of Siena no sorry Govan and the Union Jacks, dear oh dear. Is there any other team in the UK that does all this stuff pre match? I was watching an old film on Glasgow the other night with my mother from the last century and an old firm match was featured, not a flag to be seen anywhere on both sides, my how times have changed.
TU ! in relation to Ticketus and Ibrokes this could of course mean that things have gone Tits Up 🙂
or Times Up
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/?p=662&preview=true
A wee bit of “light reading” to pass the time between the latest revelations …
So poor old Whyte buys rangers for a quid, pays off Murrays debt to the bank with money borrowed from Ticketus, HMRC forces administration due to debts which turned out to be nearly non existent, Whyte gets his quid back from Green in exchange for the rangers only to find that he now has to give Ticketus back their money. Not a very clever chap at all is Craig.
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 22:09
Given who the opposition are, I’d imagine it was the sort of game that advertisers might not be too keen to be associated with. I think you may be right about them filling in the gaps.
A new series on Sky. ‘Armageddon Outfitters’
What a shock to see the address : Hampden Park, Mount Florida, Glasgow.
dedeideoprofundis says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 22:28
‘HMRC forces administration due to debts which turned out to be nearly non existent,’
——————————————————————————————————————–
Got to disagree with you there.
Are you forgeting the £16M witheld in Tax and National Insurance as well as the £4M that was already owed during the Murray years.
This was before the big tax case arrived.
Now it could be that £20M is non existent to you but it certainly isn’t to me.
dedeideoprofundis says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 22:28
So poor old Whyte buys rangers for a quid, pays off Murrays debt to the bank with money borrowed from Ticketus, HMRC forces administration due to debts which turned out to be nearly non existent,
==============================
The debts to HMRC were far from non existent.
Best estimate about £16m off the top of my head.
As unlikely as an MVL is, there is a certain logic to it.
My view is that without immediate promotion to the SPL, Sevco FC cannot make it back to the top of the game. Therefore, if there is no buckie up, the existing insiders and pension funds might realise that they most money they will ever receive back from their Sevco shares would be by distributing the cash that remains.
it would be a return of capital rather than a dividend. Therefore it would receive favourable tax treatment.
The alternative is to trudge on through the lower divisions burning cash. Even with radical cost cutting, the odds of ever making a profit and returning money to shareholders are very remote. The alternative is to admit that Rangers’ administrators did a terrible job restructuring and did not reduce the structural costs of running such a club sufficiently. They would just pull stumps and go home.
The new liquidator would then sell the assets and if the SFL were minded to do it, a new owner of Ibrox could apply for membership all over again.
Let’s be clear. The odds of this really being in the works are pretty low as it will require 51% of the shareholders to approve it. It might even need a higher threshold. I haven’t been able to check.
It would require a joint decision of the original investors and insiders AND the institutions to get above 51%. (If the threshold is higher, we can consider this idea dead).
The point being made is that best financial decision that can be made if Sevco FC have to play through every division is to liquidate the club and return the current bank balance plus sell the assets for whatever someone will pay.
oh my god.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/?p=662&preview=true
he feels pretty strongly on the subject…..
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:32
Ahmed has received £178k plus £50K back
——————————————————————————
He also received 2.2 million shares for the £22k converted into shares at 1p each.
Thank´s for the clarification BB !
When Walter was being interviewed today he made no mention that he was a Ned for RIFC Plc and therefore legally responsible for ensuring the CEO (Green) is acting in a fit and proper manner as befits a publicly quoted company.
I didn’t hear any sign of leadership from the cardigan and none of the MSM seem to have a clue about cardigan’s role and legal responsibilities in the holding company of which he is a Ned.
chipm0nk says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:34
0 0 Rate This
=========================
Actually, given the current discussions, there is a point worth making here.
The Ticketus deal would have largely survived a CVA – though, of course, it has not survived liquidation.
D&P – despite what they claimed at the time – could not simply rip up the Ticketus contract. All D&P could do, was refuse to honour it while the club was in administration. If the club had managed to agree a CVA with its creditors, whatever remained of the Ticketus contract would have been enforceable thereafter.
When Charles Green put in his bid, he would have known that, had the CVA element succeeded, he would have lost the benefit of a large portion of the season ticket money in the first 3 seasons. That continuing liability would have made a viable share offering simply impossible.
In other words, without Ticketus funding the Sevco bid (by renegotiating repayment terms) there was no possibility that the old Rangers could have seen out a single season post CVA. Actually, with spending of £2.5m per month, the club may not even have seen out the close season.
So, with insufficient funding to keep the old club alive, one may think that either:
1. Ticketus (as a company) was financially backing the Sevco bid
or
2. Sevco had to be absolutely sure that the CVA element of their bid would fail
or
3. Both of the above
Tom English @TomEnglishSport
My Scotsman column tomorrow: It’s all over for Charles Green.
Why he has to go
From RTC to TSFM, follow the money, and Murray is Whyte who is Green has always been the key considerations.
I also remember another point that was made often, that there may have been an element of supplying ample rope. I just hope, like in all stings, they are after Mr Big and not a scapegoat.
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 22:31
big gaps an all they are.
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 23:24
They will be singing that old Rolling Stones number on RM “We used to love him but it’s all over now”
Will Cammy Bell be considering the wisdom of signing a pre contract agreement with Sevco. In fact if things move they way the look at the moment will Sandaza have an employer to sue by the time it goes to court. I tell you what, I never go to the Gym will have some story to write now on the rise of the new Rangers, however I think it will end up been written outwith his current employers.
This may have been highlighted already in past few days but Just thinking away back on RTC was there not a connection made regarding Murray and TU in that he was involved. Did he not have a financial interest in them as a tax loss dodge, anybody!
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 23:47 (Edit)
They will be singing that old Rolling Stones number on RM “We used to love him but it’s all over now”
_______________________________________________________________
Shirley Bobby Womack?
Big Pink It was a Womack song but The Stones had the bigger hit with it, I have the 45rpm single that I knicked off my mum, in original sleeve.
Its taken nearly two years, but the journos do appear to have found their small round things used for playing tennis with 😉
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/tom-english-charles-green-becoming-a-liability-1-2888782
HirsutePursuit says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 23:24
Once again, a CVA was never a possibility, they all knew it. Ticketus just didn’t realise the significance because of Scots law. They believed their contract survived, maybe they were the real “dupes”.
The whole plan was liquidation, shedding of debt, new company but “same club”, return to the SPL, Rangers carry on with the same assets players etc but no longer with crippling debts or interest payments.
It nearly worked, if it wasn’t for those pesky interweb kids. Or the football fans who just said no.
On the first sports page of the Herald (Glasgow newspaper) Sevco friendly gets a big mention (same on first football page) and on both pages not a mention of what may have been the league decider in the only competitive top league in Scotland – a game that took place in Glasgow.
On the Scotsman (Edinburgh newspaper) on its front page under sports heading Thistle-Morton gets a decent headline.
Now I often criticise both papers but the Herald is really the biggest disgrace. I accept that even a disgraced and declined Rangers (newco) are going to get the headline but to dismiss what was really the biggest Scottish game of the day in such a manner (no doubt it was there, hidden in the depths of their site somewhere) really removes any claim they have to being a serious sports reporting paper.
And yes I am a Jags fan and still a bit high. But I think my point is valid as its seen all the time with other teams.
Should have added, looking at the online versions of these papers but I’m pretty sure it applies to hard copies too.
From Tom English’s piece today:
“He failed on the Manchester United question, failed on the Dallas Cowboys question. He promised his interviewer proof that the Dallas Cowboys had sent an email and then never produced it. In themselves, these are small matters…”
Are they small matters?
Or casual lies routinely invented to reassure his customer base into continuing to finance the operation?
Any one of his claims about Adidas, La Liga, Dallas, The English League, 500M fans, etc could and should have been pounced on by the hacks as soon as they left his mouth.
Anyone could spot that pretty much everything he has said about the Rangers brand’s place in the world since he arrived is demonstrably false and could easily be proved so.
Sadly for him his assumption that he would be permitted to carry on indefinitely without challenge has finally come unstuck.
Briggsbhoy/21:53
Lol! (and I swear it wasn’t me that td’d you)
McCoist might know where some of the bodies are buried but Charles Green owns the graveyard. So whilst he may choose to leave he won’t be forced out. He will have plenty of leverage and ultimately nobody is going to risk a truly hacked off Green admitting, or even suggesting, that he really was working with Whyte all along. Mutual destruction perhaps but who would call his bluff?
Anyone and everyone that had seat at the table to discus matters of any sorts relating to club Sevco will be named ,I imagine some that think ,well ,I was not really involved in the financial scandal so I am alright better think again,when its threatened with the law and the consequences these Linties will sing from the highest rooftop and all that can hear will be dragged in,if you where in that room ,be afraid ,very afraid.
Have a nice Thursday.
Apologies if if this has already been mentioned but isn’t one of the most important unanswered questions what recordings does CW have of conversations between himself and David Murray/Murray’s advisers?
It seems inconceivable he wouldn’t have taped those,being significantly more important than any conversation with Green.
Those potentially are dynamite. Isn’t it also instructive that the press have never questioned why Murray dropped the ‘sir’ from all his directorships at Companies House last summer?
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 12h
I suppose when a handwriting expert is called up from the Home Office then that isn’t good.
There were other tweets posted last night that suggested that the Police had also executed search warrants at Cenkos.
Is there any conformation that the Police at this time are also looking into the IPO / Green angle, or are events currently focused on TGEF?
slimshady61
That is very interesting regards SDM or DM .
He is a man who’s part I will be very interested in learning in all this
follow the money and the truth will out
Lets get all the super dupers lined up in a row and expose their roles one at a time
I’m happy that Tom English is getting serious about the Rangers story. He is the best writer of all the football hacks in Scotland in my opinion, and comes across as the most intelligent (although you might say that is not much of a compliment). I hope he gets to stick with the story / stories now and throw some proper press-level (as opposed to bampot-level) light on things.
Special mention too for the STV guy who cornered Green (what was his name?), the man who seems to have been the first in a mainstream Scottish news outlet to point out that the emperor’s clothing was non-existent. He did us all, Rangers fans included, a great service. A proper bit of journalism.
Probably be another quiet day today. Just the run of the mill disrepute charges, double dealing intrigue, police swoops, managers walloping execs, cover-ups, distraction stories, spivs divvying up cash between themselves on tape behind closed doors, SFA carpet flattening and such like now custom & practice . Hopefully things may get going again after the weekend when spring is upon us – and people start putting their hard earned cash aside to renew season tickets.
I’m guessing that STV may not be getting too many Charlie interviews in the future…..which leaves just Keys and Gray for his pearls of wisdom…
James Forrest Wed April 10th at 22.16
Who says don’t mix politics with sport? Brilliant piece James.Elvis Costello at the end was so apt too.
As for the question, When did CW start taping conversations ?
We don´t know but if this was a particular habit of his wouldn´t it have an expiry date ?
Over the years and after doing it and blackmailing a few along the way, surely the world in which he works would get wise to him.
The first tape we know of was post BBC doc II, quite a while after it apparent that not all was going smoothly.
Would he have taped prior to early May 2011 ? Mibbes aye Mibbes naw
Will he tape any interviews with the Polis ?
Will he stay in Monaco ?
Are his tapes digitalized ?
How much would a newspaper pay for them ?
How much would the subjects pay for them ?
Is it too late for the subjects ?
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 23:57
10 0 Rate This
This may have been highlighted already in past few days but Just thinking away back on RTC was there not a connection made regarding Murray and TU in that he was involved. Did he not have a financial interest in them as a tax loss dodge, anybody!
=======
I inferred from what has been written about this, probably wrongly, that a ticketus vehicle was set up by someone using the names of the residents of that someone’s residential care home in order to buy his own tickets at a reduced amount, sell them for the proper amount and trouser the difference including the tax break.
The ticketus model was to buy tickets at discounted rate for a season the transaction would be like a payday loan – cleared before the end of the season
Then all of a sudden they are buying significant tickets for 4 seasons from a club that everyone knew would not see out the year – and they are (whoever they are they are anonymous, expect us) not part of the scam??
hmmmmm
greenockjack says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 07:54
Fair point jack, but then there are the tapes of Mr Green. Also haven’t actors in this tawdry soap opera such as (S)DM always denied knowing Mr Whyte? If they didn’t know Mr Whyte how could they know what his business practices were?
You can have your cake, or you can eat it.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 21:32
Remind me who funded ticketus just days before they passed money to Whyte so he could do the original deal with Murray?
———————————————————————————
It might be useful if somone could post a summary of the above events, from earlier postings and discussions on RTC etc.
monsieurbunny – The Herald has been a disgrace pretty much throughout this saga. But then, as I said on here recently, this is the paper that had to call up Hamilton Academical FC a couple of years ago to find out whether they should to be referred to as Accies or Acas. Pick up the Sunday Herald any week and you’ll see far more space (with photographs) devoted to the English Premiership than the Scottish lower leagues, with maybe one team’s matches excepted!
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 08:55
There was a consensus, (later proved to be correct?), that Whyte was introduced to Ticketus by the light of the silvery moon, which goes some way towards explaining Ticketus’ extraordinary willingness to hand over such a huge amount of cash to Mr Whyte.
There have been various theories about the membership of this particular Octopus bus, but nothing definitive, as I recall.
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 09:09
BBOOOOOOOOOOO! It was all going so well too.
greenockjack says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 07:54
5 0 Rate This
Are his tapes digitalized ?
————-
There may never have been any tapes, it’s pretty old technology. Digital recording has been around for a long time now 😉
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 06:49
Phil posted on CM last night that his stuff about handwriting experts is not related to the IPO. It is all to do with the initial sale to Whyte,
This story is the dark side of bampottery. We are all so hooked on this tale that when the facts don’t deliver enough juice for us, we will make them up. It hasn’t happened too much, but this was always about the facts that the media weren’t telling us rather than what we make up because it is fun.
This story started on here yesterday with Barcabhoy saying that Cenkos were having a busy day.
Then the police raids stories broke an hour later and people started wondering if they were connected.
That moved into people twittering that Cenkos were visited by police but offering no proof.
Barcabhoy comes on and confirms that his story is to do with pissed off investors and nothing to do with the police, but by then this yarn had become “Police extend investigation to IPO” on every Celtic messageboard.
Chinese whispers.
Big Pink says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 00:04
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briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 23:47 (Edit)
They will be singing that old Rolling Stones number on RM “We used to love him but it’s all over now”
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Shirley Bobby Womack?
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Always look on the Whyte side of life. Catchy wee tune
From a posting on one of the share websites:
“I cant believe our CEO thinks its ok to call people “Paki’s” and be shouting “No Surrender” on radio clyde.”
I hadn’t heard of this shouting of “No Surrender” on the radio before ((although if it happened yesterday evening I would have missed it, as I was out reliving my hard rockin’ youth in Aberdeen 🙂 ).
For someone who has ‘left the building’ ,as it were ,Alex Thomson is teetering around his tweets today, describing the Tom English article on Green as being ‘more raw steak than succulent lamb’
If his programme editor has dropped the story currently, can it only be a matter of time when the Channel 4 cameras reappear in Govan?
If only ,at least to show,that alleged corporate corruption on a grand scale was proved once and for all to be the case.
angus1983 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 09:47
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From a posting on one of the share websites:
“I cant believe our CEO thinks its ok to call people “Paki’s” and be shouting “No Surrender” on radio clyde.”
I hadn’t heard of this shouting of “No Surrender” on the radio before ((although if it happened yesterday evening I would have missed it, as I was out reliving my hard rockin’ youth in Aberdeen ).
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Angus,
The other night they were having a wee go at Green, notable of itself. The subject of his plain-speaking came up. To illustrate the point they played the end of an interview from a few months back where he ends with the offending phrase. They seemed to think that he had no idea how his words would sound in Glasgow.
Someone has either fed him these cliches or he’s just picked them up while wandering the corridors of Ibrox.
Good Morning,
as with all things, sometimes you have to just stand still and take stock of what is going on in front of you. Then, go and rest your head on the pillow and ignore all that you see- or even think that you see- and let your brain relax into unconsciousness or at least wander into unconscious thought.
Very often, when you arise from slumber some very clear and illuminating thinking follows for —- for a brief period at least.
Whilst I am not totally sure that is where I am this morning some evry odd questions do come to the fore this am.
In the course of the last few days, Craig Whyte’s claims on the assets that once belonged to Rangers PLC seemed to get stronger and stronger each time Charles Green opened his mouth giving air to his demonstrably dodgy– if not downright false— denials.
However, Green bluster should not divert from two other factors.
First– the Ticketus judgement against Whyte means that there are clearly detailed court papers lying in an English Court which will spell out all — or at least most?— of the detail of the deal between Whyte and Ticketus.
Those papers should say what security Ticketus obtained in return for their loan, what ( if anything has been repaid ) and what ( if anything ) has happened to that security to make it unenforceable. It will also go on to spell out just why they are making the claim against Whyte, if they had a Personal Guarantee, when it was signed, who witnessed it and so on and so forth.
Those papers may also spell out who did the negotiating for Whyte ( Grier? ) and so on.
Remember though that Ticketus also did deals with Rangers pre Whyte and that Whyte has alleged that all of this was set up before he came to the party! It is possible that it was set up by Murray and /or Lloyds– who knows but those papers are worth a look.
Also there is no chance in hell that Whyte’s people did not know this judgement was imminent and he is clearly fighting for his life at the moment and scrabbling tooth and nail for a hold on the prized income producing assets– namely Ibrox.
That of course is predicated on the belief that there will always be a football club resident there which is capable of paying a sizeable rent!
The second thing to note is the execution of the warrants by the police.
Now, to obtain a search warrant you have to have just cause to believe that something you need for the successful prosecution of a crime is in situation A, B, C or D and you have to have clear grounds for asking a judge to grant a warrant for the recovery of documents or files or money or whatever.
What you can’t do is simply ask for a warrant because you want to go “fishing” for something that might be there or which might lead to something.
However, as we saw with the Big Tax Case– all sorts of things get recovered when warrants are exercised– things that may not actually relate to the investigation which is under way but which then spark new investigations and possibly new charges and lines of enquiry.
There is huge focus on Whyte and Green at the moment but there are a significant number of other people involved in the initial takeover who may have papers and documents which might be illuminating, including the advisers to Rangers PLC, the former directors of that company and their own advisers- especially given the fact that at least 2 directors took Rangers PLC to court and arrested money on the basis that the company was insolvent– and others.
Don’t forget either that so far there has only been one clear winner in all of this– and they are the chaps in charge of debt recovery within Lloyds bank who must have been delighted that SDM and Whytie cooked up a scheme which got them all their money back in one fell swoop!
Charles Green has been called to Tokyo. Something to do with dodgy airbags.
Enter stage left, one Donald Muir esq. ??
Will the fat bonus have been worth it ?
Is there a trail to follow ?
Will people squeal ?
Will people listen ?
Booooooooommmmmmmm
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 21s
Morning 🙂 I had a silly dream that Craig Whyte taped a Knight of the Realm with brave Sir knight suggesting a certain way of raising money
https://twitter.com/Pmacgiollabhain
Craigy just loves to tape. Dreams do come true.
I see a lot of excitement building around another big crisis at Ibrox. If anything this last year or so has taught me is that, Rangers, old or new are impervious to any laws of the land that the rest of society are subject to. Whether it be football authorities,police or judges they have and always will be a special case. “Social unrest” was the term used, and over the last year I have realised that the threat of this gets them out of any jam they may find themselves in. Whether there are genuine fears or it is a smokescreen for favourable treatment is anyone’s guess. I personally think it is a combination of both.
Alex Thomson, the Channel 4 journalist’s interest in this whole saga should give everyone an insight into how Scottish society panders to this so called “institution”. He stumbled upon it by chance, and within a couple of months, could not believe how parochial,corrupt and murky our game and it’s coverage by the MSM was. A complete neutral, with no previous interest in our game or probably country for that matter, was completely immersed in this unfolding scandal. Like everyone he could see the financial skulduggery and carnage of the old and new regimes at Ibrox. For him, like the great majority of us thought, it was an open and shut case. Over the next few weeks and months he reported on events in an increasingly bewlidered state as one by one, crimes/rule breaches that should have followed a natural course of justice – didn’t. He was unable to understand how Campbell Ogilvie remained in position, why the SPL,SFA were trying to shoehorn the new club back into the top division, shedding all their debt and shafting creditiors. He experienced first hand the threats and intimidation as he tried to uncover the truth and report it, whilst the rest of the MSM ignored or spinned like a top. By the end of it all he was sat on a couch on Scotland Tonight after another inexplicable decision that day by LNS, looking exasperated. All he could muster was that if he had to explain all the previous events of that year to a Martian he would simply describe our country as a “Banana Republic”.
Tellingly sitting opposite to him that night was a guy called Chris Graham. This was a guy who ran a site called ” Enemies of Rangers” which caused my mate’s boozer no end of bother. The guy had been discredited at every turn with his blogs and views, yet here he was(and now is – regularly) being rolled out in front of our eyes on our country’s flagship news programme. Giving this guy such a platform, and furthermore (by his increasing appearances) credibility should tell everyone all they need to know about how this country panders to the “Orange” pound.
My advice to fans now wanting to see justice unfold regarding the latest revelations, is – forget it. If there is a way to get them off the hook or lessen the sanctions, it will be done. I already see the Police getting involved and going after Whyte. Both sales from Murray to Whyte and then to Green seem to be fraudulent. Hopefully we will see justice, but remember this “social unrest” get out is very powerful and can cover a multitude of sins.
if the whole thing was proved to be a major scam from the start, is there one person on earth outside of the Ibrox support that would be even slightly surprised ?
Right, so Minty Moonbeam of the Hover Pitches apparently set it all up. What happens now?
And, no. Not surprised, thought it from day one. All those who blamed Craigy Whyte in a ‘bad man did it and ran away’ style are now left looking even more stupid that we all knew them to be.
Eeramacaroonbar (@Eeramacaroonbar) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:28
Very good post…….
In nostalgic mood today
Once upon a time – there were rules and codes that we could all understand – for good or bad
Vaguely remember the detail – but CW barred from Scottish football in any capacity + a 200k fine
Turns out he WAS dealing in whatever detail with the CG Troupe – and possibly still has links?
If found actionable; – How many SFA/SFL standing rules does that trigger? BUT
Any potential punishment appears to be limited to;
• Director Ban & Fine [Ignored on both counts]
• Club Fine [Fans cash]
• Censure [ignored and forgotten]
• Transfer limits [negotiable – and after an appeal to Civil Courts]
• Touchline Ban [Suspended for x years]
• Not Proven
• LNS `solution`
One of the benefits of sanctions is it forces any miscreants to change their behaviour for everyone’s good
After the Feb Administration – and all the hoo-ha in the Civil Courts etc – and perceived weakness of ALL Authorities – does anyone share the view that some have taken an opportunity to do as they please with impunity. Not sure they can fine them as if personal they won`t pay – and if they fine the `Company` – that`s effectively the supporters money. If they receive a ban from football they just work behind the scenes. If they deduct points or League status that`s unjust for any supporters.
Just trying to work out the point of writing to CG or anyone else there
– seems pointless
Really does