A guest blog by Auldheid
In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.
A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.
Dear Mr McKenzie 4th Oct 2014
Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.
In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.
Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:
- Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
- Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
- Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.
Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.
This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.
Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.
The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.
Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?
Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.
The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.
The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.
That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.
However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since
- It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
- It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.
Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.
It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.
John Macnab
TSFM
Ment to add if it does goto a larger league
In 2/3 year’s time or as soon as a team in blue is back were it wrongfully belongs .
They will be telling us it no longer works,to many meaningless games to many uncompetitive games etc And back to 10/12 we go
So as the old saying go’s
Be careful what you wish for you might get it 😥
Danish Pastry says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:24 am
‘… but Scotland’s biggest teams would be nothing today without the supporting structure they stand on’
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And that is an absolute fact!
Football is a competitive sport. To be competitive requires that there be others against whom to compete.
That’s what the whole bloody thing is about:playing fair..impartial refereeing.. unloaded dice… better team wins on the day…all that kind of stuff.
Underpinning all that, of course, is the notion that ‘manipulation’ of anything- whether a particular cup-tie draw, or choice of stadium for important games, or league ‘reconstruction’, solely to enable a financially failing club to avoid suffering penalties for its failure, or employing people who will abuse their positions and then lie, is absolutely anathema.
Like DP, I have had my criticisms to make in earlier years of the attempted separation of the tail from the head of the dog, which resulted in the fundamentally undemocratic notion being accepted that some ‘competitors’ were more ‘sportingly’ entitled to control the administration of the sport than others.
I agree with DP that we have to be quite clear in separating the wheat from the chaff.
League ‘reconstruction’ (recognising that each and every club at any given time is of critical importance) might well be necessary and desirable.
But league ‘reconstruction’ as an artifice to allow ‘cheating’ to triumph would bring about the death of Scottish Football.
As dead a death as that of RFC(IL)
Than which there has been none deader.
One must never say ‘never’, but I cannot at present accept that our SFA and SPFL people can be anything other than living in desperate hope that a) TRFC Ltd will stay clear of Administration ( with any and all help that may be secretly provided)
and b)that they will,on the field of play, somehow merit promotion to the top level ( with any and all help that may be provided….)
But, and I may be proved entirely wrong, of course, ‘League reconstruction’ now just to ensure that TRFC will be ok is not, I think, on the cards.
Just a question on the Allan Johnston quote where he stated that everyone is tired of playing each 4 – 5 times a year and would love to be fresh and play each other 2 times like in England etc……
Did someone in the old SPL days not sign a contract with Sky stipulating there had to be 4 Celtic v Rangers games a year? So in any new setup that is no doubt being proposed, how will they manage the minimum of 4 games for Sky if the expansion means we just play everyone twice? Or was one of the rods that was used to cause the fear of financial collapse to create a cloud of blackmail that Turnbull Hutton alluded to on the steps of Hampden all of a sudden no longer going to be an issue?
Answers on a postcard to Neil Doncaster please – because he is burning the midnight oil trying to figure out how to sell it as a fresh new idea, but no doubt still incorporate all the baggage from before to suit Sky and sponsors too……….after all, they are much more important than the fans!!
All speculation at the moment, but if there is league reconstruction this season which would allow TRFC administration this season and still get into the top league next season then I’m out. It would break my heart but I could not commit any more of my hard earned cash to support such corruption. If it is indeed being contemplated I hope all the Chairmen have memories long enough to go back to 2012. To amend a phrase from the Celtic takeover in 1994, I can only suggest if it happens the representatives of every fans group in Scotland bar TRFC stand on the Hampden steps with a nominated spokesperson stating,’the game is over…the cheats have won’.
I have to laugh at the number of hacks on Twitter pouring scorn at the judgment yesterday by FIFA that there is no corruption in FIFA. Look at what they ignore right on their own doorstep.
Burton Menswear ruffling a few feathers with their latest T-shirt design.
The ‘Gallant Pioneers’ not looking too well in this image.
http://www.burton.co.uk/en/bruk/product/clothing-281559/mens-t-shirts-vests-2672838/white-stolen-skulls-print-t-shirt-3498302?bi=1&ps=20
It is possible to reach the right outcome for the wrong reasons. If that happens, it is still the right outcome.
I have believed for many years that a 16 team top division, or possibly 18 team top division, would be by far the best structure for full time professional football in Scotland.
I would be upset (and unsurprised) if this was done as a fig leaf to get The Rangers back in the top division. However, I would still support the move as the best for the longer term. I’d want a minimum 10 year moratorium on further changes though.
I’m old enough to remember the larger leagues, we don’t want to go back there.
So many ‘dead rubber’ games where no one bothered turning up.
Right or wrong, you don’t restructure with six months notice unless your hiding the true purpose. Of course hiding May not be the most appropriate description.
Cygnus X2 says:
November 14, 2014 at 7:38 am
3 8 Rate This
It is possible to reach the right outcome for the wrong reasons. If that happens, it is still the right outcome…
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Agreed on the larger structure, and the secretive clique running the game know fans want it too. As folks are saying, pushing it this season is surely a non-starter. If Mikey wants his business venture represented in the top tier they’ll have to earn it; well, he’ll have to earn it and then hand the dosh over to the keepers of the cash drain to maintain the mis-match of smaller, prudent clubs gettng pumped by the Begging Bowl XI.
Bawsman’s concerns could be offset by real relegation and promotion drama. It would open a real skylight in the roof of each division that would let at least three teams change places each season in the top flight. The danger is that you’ll have elevator clubs, although just taking Dundee and Accies, that might not be the case. Anyway, better to have tried and failed, and all that. Since the demise of Murray Rangers clubs really seem to be heading to sustainable football which looks to benefit young lads denied a real chance for too long.
IMO it would be far easier to get the chosen team promoted from the “best” league to the big league by way of good old fashioned on field decisions rather than reconstruction which time wise would be difficult to achieve and would face a yet unknown opposition from those who stand on the one side of the difference between right and wrong.
Bawsman says:
November 14, 2014 at 7:55 am
I’m old enough to remember the larger leagues, we don’t want to go back there.
So many ‘dead rubber’ games where no one bothered turning up.
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Yes, but there was nothing in the way of play-offs then. They really did reinvigorate league football in England. In what was the old Division 4 (24 teams) you went from 4 up/1 down (to Conference) to 3 up + 1 from 4 via play-off and 2 down. Any team in the top half of the table probably has some chance of making 7th place for a playoff spot, and anyone lower than 16th is normally looking over their shoulder. Far, far fewer meaningless games because even if a team can’t get to the playoffs or get relegated the chances are that the teams that they’re up against can.
Good luck wi trying to convince the likes of Killie, St. Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell 😯 , Hamilton etc. that 3 to go down is a good idea. 🙄
Danish Pastry says:
November 14, 2014 at 8:49 am
0 2 Rate This
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Danish I agree the playoffs have been a breath of Fresh Air 😀
But let’s not forget they were only brought into play in case the unimaginable actually happened And the the team in blue didn’t finish top of their respective league
You must remember No one knew what type of team they would have or what quality of player
So a nice little safety net which also appeased the fans
Was a god send
Now in saying all that I will repeat that I love it 🙂
But also if there is reconstruction to get the team in blue into the top league The last thing they will want is another route back down for them 🙁
On the “11 – 1” voting structure which has always been a veto tool for Celtic and the old Rangers and is now the same in waiting. It is of course a 90% requirement covering “qualified resolutions” that are listed mainly in an attached schedule but is basically the money matters. So the requirement for there to be all but one in favour has been there whether it’s 10 or 12 and will be there up to 19 for that matter.
The question that needs to be asked is what deal/arrangement/threat/reward was involved that moved Aberdeen from being the leaders of the “rebel 10” (as Lawell called them) to supporting Celtic and NOT pushing it through? Hot subject for me and thanks for bringing it up again.
Well 3 up/3 down (with or without play-offs) in an 18 team league is only the same as 2 down (potentially) from a 12 team league.
Blimey, Burton are a new boycott in the offing. You guys are no doubt all clued up already. Thought it was a joke.
http://www.burton.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?beginIndex=0&viewAllFlag=&catalogId=33052&storeId=12551&productId=16742686&langId=-1&categoryId=&parent_category_rn=&searchTerm=BR45P40FWHT&resultCount=1&geoip=home
They dont really need reconstruction to get TRFC back up despite a 25 pt deduction for Admin or liquidation
All they need to do is increase the number of honest mistakes in games affecting the key teams involved
That shouldnt be too difficult for a corrupt organisation
Anyone with concerns re the immature Burton’s stunt should perhaps return to the highlights of the orange cup final during which I seem to recall a clearly uncomfortable Gordon smith of all people summarising the link to the Dutch players being highlighted and everything else apparently was coincidental. What goes around….
Smugas says:
November 14, 2014 at 10:35 am
6 0 Rate This
Anyone with concerns re the immature Burton’s stunt …
———–
Ironic that after the talk of image rights a classic photo, probably out of copyright, should turn up in that setting. I read what appeared to be a letter of complaint. As though there weren’t more important things to address — what was that meeting last night all about? Leach, Llambias and Stockbridge making themselves conspicuous?
‘Where will it all end Mr Twelvetrees?’
Congrats to EcoBhoy and others who were routinely demolishing the barmy assertions of the State Aiders … this one’s for you 🙂
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-state-they-are-in/
From BBC News 15 mins ago
Four men held over Rangers takeover in 2012Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
BBC Scotland understands that the men were held during early morning raids at addresses across the UK involving officers from Surrey Police and Thames Valley Police.
Police Scotland have been investigating the sale of Rangers from Sir David Murray to Craig Whyte for over a year.
It is understood Mr Whyte is not one of the four men who are being held
Does anyone else think the latest DR exclusive by Keefie is just like the Easdales/Rizvi luncheon club one?
The timing and location of the meeting between Stockbridge and Ashley’s string pullers was no coincidence IMO.
These guys wanted to be seen going about their ‘business’.
A less than subtle message was being sent to someone, somewhere courtesy of Keefie’s ace journalism.
Question is who and why?
As Charles, le grand Duc de Normandie, ponders over his breakfast choice of viennoiserie this morning and scans through the online version of Le Record Quotidien, I just wonder if he might be thinking about what his old mate Brian might be telling the string pullers.
In other news, I can’t help but have a laugh at the the great T shirt outrage over in the Den re Dead Souls FC.
My favourite comment was how it was like an old family photograph that had been ‘degenerated’.
I blame the schools…….. or lack of them.
About time the Polis started rounding up those involved
Lets hope dominos tumble 😉
mtp
valentinesclown says:
November 14, 2014 at 11:48 am
From BBC News 15 mins ago
Four men held over Rangers takeover in 2012Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
================================================================
It’s turning into a really bad week at Ibrox. I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Perhaps BDO is about to drop a bombshell as well. It’s all coming together like the plot of ‘The Perfect Storm’.
I suppose the SFA will be appearing as defence witnesses – perhaps we’re going to get the answers that have been asked of those closest to proceedings.
Squeeky bum time at Hampden.
The players who did “walking away”
I remember prior to them walking away, they actually agreed to take a pay cut.
Why did Steven Naismith (and others who walked away) agree to take the pay cut?
So, other lower paid staff (e.g cleaners, office staff etc)
at £1brox did not need to lose their jobs!!
Contrast that with the – We don’t do walking away – “men”.
(and Steven Naismith wasn’t scared to tell the Truth, as opposed to perpetuating the Myth !)
mungoboy says:
November 14, 2014 at 11:55 am
As Charles, le grand Duc de Normandie, ponders over his breakfast choice of viennoiserie this morning.
———————————————–
I think he may possibly be contemplating simpler fare just in case his circumstances change. After all how long can his millions last 🙄
Four men held over Rangers takeover in 2012
Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
BBC Scotland understands that the men were held during early morning raids at addresses across the UK involving officers from Surrey Police and Thames Valley Police.
Police Scotland have been investigating the sale of Rangers from Sir David Murray to Craig Whyte for over a year.
It is understood Mr Whyte is not one of the four men who are being held.
(From BBC website)
Can’t help wondering
– was it the sale of the CLUB, the PARENT COMPANY or the ASSETS ????
Is there indeed a difference?
Smugas says:
November 14, 2014 at 10:35 am
Anyone with concerns re the immature Burton’s stunt …
========================================================
Yea probably Ashley – he’ll be checking to see if his trade marks have been infringed.
Still the recent changes in copyright law allow IIRC for these kind of copies especially when done with a bit of humour. Although I do accept the Bears don’t have mucg to laugh about these days.
I’m fizzing because I went to buy a couple as Xmas pressies and Burton has wilted under the usual threat to withdraw the Blue £ and removed them from sale.
So make your minds up – is it the sale from Murray to Whyte in 2011, or the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
@JimL
Denial, strong it is against the force [weejobbyicon] 😆
If four have been arrested some others must be trembling in the Cafe Nervosa. Could the two gallant admin lads be helping police with their enquires?
Eco,
The fare doesn’t get much simpler than the choice between a croissant or pain au raisin.
I’m rather hoping some Porridge might be on his menu in the not too distant future given this morning’s events down south.
South0fThe Border says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:15 pm
Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
So make your minds up – is it the sale from Murray to Whyte in 2011, or the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
================================================
The statement says 2012 but I accept that could be wrong. However as soon as we get the names of those lifted then we’ll know for sure.
I wonder if any ‘professional’ people are included and not just spivs?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/four-detained-in-rangers-probe.1415965832
“The men are being held following a series of operations across the UK at around 6am.
It follows a high-profile investigation into the acquisition of Rangers Football Club in 2012.
The Police Scotland investigation relates to the sale which took place in 2012.
A spokeswoman said: “Following a Police Scotland investigation, four men have been detained in connction the alleged fraudulent acqusition of Rangers FC in 2012.
“Police Scotland officers, joined by officers from Thames Valley, Chesire and Surrey police forces, attended at a number of addresses in England at 6am on Friday November 14.”
Here`s hoping they sing like canaries 😉
mtp
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 5m5 minutes ago
BBC learns Gary Whithey and David Greer are 2 of the 4 men detained as part of investigation into acquisition of #Rangers in 2011.
The great guessing game as to the identities of the 4 arrests begins in earnest. The difficulty is that most of our readers could rattle off 15-20 individuals worthy of arrest.
Only wee Stevie from IT seems to be above suspicion – he was on a scouting mission at the time.
Good Afternoon
Seems like the pigeons are coming home to roost.
I have consistently said that there was fraud involved and if so then the IPO and all that stems therefrom is capable of being struck down.
It may be that this is connected to fraud or money laundering but if certain people have been aware that an investigation was underway is may explain why no security could be granted over Ibrox and Auchenhowie.
MA is not a philanthropist and will not throw hard earned cash down the money pit that is TRFC.
TRFC would be better wiped out together with the compromised SFA.
Only then will we be able to cleanse the game.
This is indeed the gift that keeps on giving.
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:19 pm
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/four-detained-in-rangers-probe.1415965832
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Well looks as though it’s as a result of the Police Scotland investigation that the arrests have been made with the three English forces providing local back-up to make the arrests.
Those lifted will presumably be brought back to Glasgow for questioning.
I joked earlier about ‘The Perfect Storm’ but all the things that have happened in the last couple of days seem to be pointing towards seismic events being underway.
Maybe the Unseen Hand exists after all 😆
twopanda says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Here`s hoping they sing like canaries 😉
================================================
I would imagine the police already have their ‘singing canary’ who has done a deal for dobbing others in.
It’s never over till the canary sings 😆
I am wondering if shares in the company will be suspended this afternoon?
If the sale has been fraudulent, who takes control (if anyone) – BDO?
BBC state 4 men arrested
So they weren’t detained or brought in to help with enquirers
Arrested very strong word from the BBC
Also why mention the sale from DM to whyte (2011)
When they clearly state it is about the 2012 sale?
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 5m5 minutes ago
BBC learns Gary Whithey and David Greer are 2 of the 4 men detained as part of investigation into acquisition of #Rangers in 2011.
===========================================================
If those names are correct it makes clear what Lord Hodge was about when things went silent through in Edinburgh. He probably received a nod that publicity might adversely affect an ongoing police investigation.
If that is the case then those who were quick to attack him and his motives might well reflect that sometimes things are happening even when it seems they aren’t.
being detained, doesn’t always lead to charges
being charged doesn’t always lead to prosecution
being prosecuted doesn’t always lead to conviction
Long way to go yet.
Still, very welcome news on a miserable wet Friday
tcup 2012 says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:35 pm
BBC state 4 men arrested
So they weren’t detained or brought in to help with enquirers
Arrested very strong word from the BBC Also why mention the sale from DM to whyte (2011) When they clearly state it is about the 2012 sale?
============================================================
Well we don’t know what has happened previously – they may well have already assisted police with their enquiries as I would expect all upstanding citizens to do and even more so if they are highly-respected professionals who are leaders in the insolvency profession at a world-wide level.
However, the term ‘arrest’ would appear to imply that things had moved on somewhat and would probably be a necessary pre-cursor to get them to Scotland possibly to bring them within the jurisdiction of the Scottish Courts and maybe an appearance on Monday from custody.
Of course they could be released without charge or bailed or ordered to appear at a later date. Not enough info available at the moment but the SMSM will be going Tonto over this although contempt of court could become an issue.
Its just saying over in Rangers media that Earle and Betts are the other 2?
It gets really interesting when @Rangerstaxcase makes an appearance:
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase · 18s19 seconds ago
When warned about the #fakeover oh how they laughed.
I haven’t seen any reports saying “Arrested” tcup – where’s that one coming from?
spanishcelt says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Its just saying over in Rangers media that Earle and Betts are the other 2?
=======================================
Well Phil Betts would take things back a bit – see: https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/tag/phil-betts/ as well as: http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=118641
I’m having a senior moment wrt Earle – who was he again?
Remind me. Greer was the d&p guy who set up the purchase pre admin. Withey was the lawyer who released the ticketus funds and then went walkabout. Earle and betts?
“Scotzine @scotzine 26s26 seconds ago
David Grier, Gary Withey, David Whitehouse and Paul Clark are the four arrested this morning re. Rangers assets sale.”
Anyone for chancer bingo, until we get official word of who the detainees are?
Essex
Big bro is offering to buy me booze if three of the names in the above tweet are accurate
These events have me thinking about Paul McConville, I wonder what he would make of them.
I may have to revisit Random Thoughts for a refresher course on some of these characters and the events which have led to where we are today.
I miss the big fella.
becoming a little clearer
“Channel 4 News @Channel4News 9m9 minutes ago
Four men have been detained as part of an investigation into the takeover of Rangers Football Club in 2012 – Police Scotland”
BDO quietly doing their thing?
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
Paul Clark, David Whitehouse, Gary Whithey and David Grier are the 4 detained in relation to acquisition of #Rangers
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm
I miss the big fella.
=============
Yep, a week on Wednesday is the 1st anniversary of his passing 🙁 . RIP Paul
Just complained to the BBC about their arrest story.
CG Did not “tak control”. He started a new company, bought the assets of a liquidating company and started to trade. The new company was then accepted into the SFL. It is not clear from the article that the two “Rangers” referred to are different.
I requested that they issue a correction….
…..Where’s the tumbleweed icon as I await that…
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm
These events have me thinking about Paul McConville, I wonder what he would make of them.
————————————————————–
He’d be loving it. It was Paul’s writings that got me interested in the shenanigans.
It’s all starting to slowly unravel.
Flywheel
So erm…anybody have any idea who owns the deeds 🙄
If and only if, if is this is fraudulent does that make Whyte the Owner?
Or would some convoluted legal process be needed to see Whyte compensated and thus his liability to ticketus negated?
And can Charlie expect a knock (EAW)?
would love to see Charlie’s Christmas message from the other big hoose. And just imagine his first footers!
So with these four arrests, just to make sure I’m on the right page….Can this investigation/action ONLY have been instigated by BDO after becoming suspicious of the sale to CG after using the opportunity as liquidators of assessing how the administration was performed by D&P?
I’ve got something in my head that a police investigation into the sale was underway before BDO became involved, but could be wrong on that.
And nothing at all to do with CW’s claim about being the rightful owner via Sevco 5088?
I’d be glad of absolute clarity on the instigator, if it’s clear cut enough to do so. Thanks anyone!
Wet Blanket
A spokesman for Police Scotland said: “Four men have been detained as a result of the ongoing investigation into the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers Football Club. Around 6am on Friday, Police Scotland officers, assisted by officers from Thames Valley Police, Cheshire Police and Surrey Police, attended a number of addresses in England and detained four men.”
Assuming Chris McLaughlin got the above right, the “2011” in the headline is his own addition, apparently based on his information that Whithey and Greer are two of The Ibrox Four. “it is also understood” that Whyte is not one – bit weak Chris.
So, we don’t know who is “detained” and over which “aquisition” of which “Rangers Football Club”.
If it is “2011” I’d suggest maybe the French police have not yet made a statement, otherwise Craig is free to delete files, wipe tapes and shred paper. Not consistent with synchronized dawn raids.
Martin c. I think that’s the crux of the question is it the 2011 or 2012 purchase we’re talking about. My reading is it’s the 2012 purchase, negotiations for which started in 2011 which is rather naughty apparently!
Looks BDO playing a blinder!
1 if it is the original transaction they are talking about that is illegal all assets need to be repatriated to OLDCO IL and their creditors surely?
2 If so IPO was thus a complete fraud…more arrests to come methinks big time on that one and the earlier SEVCO switcheroo
3 Just like all those years ago when Erlichman and Haldeman. were indicted then Nixon was done for …how can Murray survive if Grier goes down?.Weren’t they tied at the hip on this transaction?
4 Ashley ?..what a Stench under that bonnet..exit Dodge?
5 Time for a brand new club.? Come out come out whatever you are the standby list of Blue Knights..and DK?…to The point highlighted a few weeks ago…something big was about to break on a Newco front …well maybe here it is!
I wonder if a certain billionair at a certain meeting last night Was being tipped the wink that he may just have boarded the Titanic
Shyster Flywheel Shyster says:
November 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm
These events have me thinking about Paul McConville, I wonder what he would make of them.
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He’d be loving it. It was Paul’s writings that got me interested in the shenanigans. It’s all starting to slowly unravel.
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Yea my mind immediately turned to the Big Fella when the news broke and the phrase that immediately popped into my mind was ‘Gratuitous Alienation’.
I’ll need to read through all his posts on the subject but perhaps a starter is: https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/gratuitous-alienation-and-rfc-2012-plc-some-clarification-for-clarkeng/
Maybe they`ve detained some small fish on way to a bigger prize(s)? – Who knows?
One nicety yet to develop is if any have perjured themselves over the period
# guaranteed jail time
mtp
On any other day the Burtons t shirt would have given hours if not days of fun
It was the in thing for all of 45 minutes 😆
Martin who owns the deeds?
They may be the only thing/entity that is alive with any meaningful semblance of history attached to them. In fact where is Bomber Brown he seemed at the time keen on who owned the deeds.
Wanted. New F5 button.
What if the GEF has finally run out of patience while waiting for his pay-off? Green admitted hoodwinking the MBB into going along with the Sevco 5088 plan before the double cross. Since then Charlotte began laundering the dirty linen in public, probably Whytie’s way of twisting a few arms. Those in control must have taken the decision to cut him out completely and call his bluff about going to the authorities.
Whyte now finds himself between a rock and a hard place and decides without due compensation he will sing like the proverbial canary. Just because Whyte is not among the 4 arrested does not mean he is not slap bang in the middle of this. Maybe he’s cut a deal with the authorities to have his “crimes” reduced by helping with enquiries. If he was going down anyway, what’s he got to lose by blowing the whistle on those who crossed him?
Only conjecture I might add.
@smugas, yep different news organisations not distinguishing between the different companies and exactly what purchase is allegedly fraudulent. Most likely a fishing trip for the journos to let any of the players say its not me.
And the police statement TRFC 2012, was that before or after it had changed its name?
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 5m5 minutes ago
BBC learns Gary Whithey and David Greer are 2 of the 4 men detained as part of investigation into acquisition of #Rangers in 2011.
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If Greer is involved the trail could lead directly to who funded Ticketus and where did the money originate
South African Steel anybody?
Smugas says:
November 14, 2014 at 1:27 pm
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Martin c. I think that’s the crux of the question is it the 2011 or 2012 purchase we’re talking about. My reading is it’s the 2012 purchase, negotiations for which started in 2011 which is rather naughty apparently!
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We definitely need clarity on what is being investigated.
According to this it is the CW takeover.
I do wish msm would make up their minds…
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30053692
Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2011.
The men were held during early morning raids at addresses across the UK in an operation which involved officers from Surrey Police, Cheshire Police and Thames Valley Police.
Police Scotland have been investigating the sale of Rangers from Sir David Murray to Craig Whyte for over a year.
It is understood Mr Whyte is not one of the four men who are being held.
A spokesman for Police Scotland said: “Four men have been detained as a result of the ongoing investigation into the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers Football Club.
“Around 6am on Friday, Police Scotland officers, assisted by officers from Thames Valley Police, Cheshire Police and Surrey Police, attended a number of addresses in England and detained four men.”
The development is the latest twist in a three-year saga involving Rangers.
Mr Whyte bought Rangers from Sir David Murray for £1 in May 2011 and gave an undertaking to settle its £18m Lloyds Bank debt.
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So It seems its not the sale to CG that is being questioned but CWs takeover which is a lot closer to Sir David Murray.
Oh my, oh my, who would’ve a thought of a fakeover, eh?
Paul McConville’s Blogs on gratuitous alienation might also be essential re-reading at this moment.
I’m also slightly tickled by the near universal welcoming of today’s detentions by the Bears at large, as I just don’t see this as being very good news at all if your heart is blue.
Well if I was a ‘professional person’ contemplating a stretch inside and a nice police officer gave me a glimmer of a chance to put all the unpleasantness behind by rolling over on my client I’m sure I would abide by my professional ethics.
So I would tell the cop in no uncertain terms so that he understood that I put my civic duty before professional obligations: ‘Just hand me the pen and show me where I sign’.
They had all the info anyway from CF so I don’t really think I can be criticised and for sure my professional association will stand right behind me. Won’t they 🙄
PW1874 says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:03 pm
“When the Gods wish to punish us, they give us what we want”