1,574 thoughts on “Where now for the Judicial Panel Protocol?”
Angus says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:44
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Angus,
I’ve said before,Our little Yorkshire Pudding(copyright claimed) may be crass,immoral,sleekit,call him what you like but he is not stupid.He knows what he’s doing.i’d bet that even if BDO annul the sale of the club,he’ll still walk away with a profit.Probably due to his connections(still unproven but we’re sure they exist) with Betts,Ellis and a certain Monaco based “billionaire”.
He knows where the fixed/floating charges are held and how much they’re worth,unlike D&P who have had only 6 months to find out.
Any SEVCONIANS in the Scotland squad?
paulmac says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:57
Any SEVCONIANS in the Scotland squad?
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No.
there may be problems with their registrations. :clap:
So the fans are going to get the chance to buy shares in a new holding company.
Remember it won’t be the club they are buying shares in because according to our media and Chas you can’t buy shares in a football club only a holding company.
What a share certificate that will be. You will be able to fill in your own company name and select a watermark of your choice.
If ACME did share issues.
Angus says,
I took the plunge and emailed Private Eye? Felt like a real amateur though.
Some of the smileys don’t work. 😉
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:57
Has no one found the link between Chas and Craig yet?
There is one you know!!!
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 22:08
Well this is a ‘real’ game so I take it all registrations have to be above board! Lol that would be a first for the sfa? 🙂
Need to check the Celtic Share price tomorrow.This not to be missed share issue values “The Rangers” at £30m and according to CG,this time next year they’ll have the best balance sheet,money in the bank, no debt.
Why are we even bothering playing.We’re all(the other 42 clubs.RFC(IA) are still technically here) just biding time until we’re swamped by the Sevco juggernaught.And when we are swamped,we’ve to remember to be grateful if CG,Ally etc allow us to continue,albeit in their shadow. 😆
StevieBC says:
September 6, 2012 at 19:13
From Sky;
“The new owner of Rangers Football Club is close to appointing advisers to kick off a swift return to the London stock market…
People close to the situation said that it could seek to raise as much as £20m, part of which is likely to be used to fund the acquisitions of new players…”
… to fund the acquisitions of new players…in January 2014 … maybe.
Oh and it can seek to do anything it wants. David Murray sought to raise £50m, he did, from his own company.
I wonder how the Sevco supporters will feel, when they learn that they are being offered shares in the company and not the club 🙂
As I have posted previously, It would be interesting to know if a certain Mr. A. Cameron will be at the head of the queue for shares.( Once bitten, twice shy).
Agrajag says:
September 6, 2012 at 22:39
David Murray sought to raise £50m, he did, from his own company
or at least he put it on his companies tab, and we all picked it up later.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 6, 2012 at 14:58
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Excellent
I wont go into what I have recently uncovered as there is clearly some D&P and Sevco professionals reading and acting on the work of this Blog
eg
It is no longer possible to find any RFC plc (pre name change to RFC 2012) details at Companies House…….like from this week
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Suffice it to say
Having researched the facts in the public domain and joined the dots
I am fairly sure that the situation is as follows
Green owns Ibrox outright with no floating charge
Whyte owns Murray Park outright through one of his cos
Close Leasing owns the Azure Catering contract income from Sevco until their debt is repaid
The Ticketus ST contract is now with Sevco and their debt of c£40m will have to be repaid out of future STs. Repayments may currently be on hold
The Ticketus v Craig Whyte court case is a temporary smokescreen to cover any embarassments uncovered by BDO. It will quietly die in due course
The October fundraising won`t put a penny into the sporting side of Sevco
The financial cracks will emerge after Green and the rest of the spivs move on
Worse of all………. it will all be legal
,,,,,,,,,,,
I feel sorry for those decent Bears who made some magnificent contributions to this Blog and its predecessor
But I believe Sevco are seriously stuffed financially for the foreseeable future
Captain Haddock says:
September 6, 2012 at 17:03
4 0 Rate This
HirsutePursuit,
Good point, but I seem to remember CG claiming this was all part of the £1 Goodwill “purchase”.
Considering how much else D&P sold for a pound, you could almost believe CG this time.
Not a financial brain myself, are these types of sale values normal when selling as a “going concern”? Considering the amount creditors will not be getting, D&P sold assets at scandalously low prices.
But then again it was to someone assisting them in the scam, oops, sorrry, “transition”, so that must be alright then…
=================================
Goodwill is simply the difference in value between the tangible (physical) assets held by a business and the total value of that business. It could include reputation, trademarks, customer lists, potential profit margin from future sales, etc. These intangible assets normally come with the purchase of a business.
Interesting that when the total value of Fixed Charge Assets was given as £113m, goodwill was valued at £620k.
Hmmm…
Actually, since my original post, I’ve checked with the Intellectual Property Office (no really… that’s what it’s called) and the trademarks were indeed transferred to Sevco on 14th June 2012.
Which means that the Rangers name (using which Sevco have just sold 33,000 season tickets) along with the customer list (used to sell those season tickets), branding rights, and royalties – were all sold for £1.
hmmm…
Surprised (slightly disappointed) but definitely confused as to why no one has mentioned the ‘NEW’ (*THE) * Rangers website, which appears to be (IS) the old RFC website before administration.
Remember the logo change? RFC 2012 ? the new look with the helpful ‘Administrators’ area? Paul McC pointing out to them about their legal requirements?
I see that *Rangers FC appear now to be out of administration, totally unscathed, history intact, bragging it’s continuous history and advice to shareholders ?
It may be worth keeping an eye on Alex Tomo’s blog on Friday
alex thomson @alextomo
Friday – Tomoblog – Anger, Frustration, Dignity and Unanswered Questions – one ordinary Rangers fan let’s rip from the heart
Good to see that he is still interested in RFC(IA)/Sevco
SDM tried raising money from fans and got about £1m and a bit. I could see then that there was likely an attitude amongst Gers fans that ‘why shound we pay for the debts of that multi millionaire’? Hence as low as £1m.
Its different now – the choice laid before the fans is that there may not be a club if Green doesnt succeed – akin to why the fans are showing support via large attendances at the moment (hats off to them – I for one did not see home gates of that number). I could see why Green might expect a better fan’s cash response than last time, but I doubt if they will get much more than £5m.
TheBlackKnight says:
September 6, 2012 at 23:45
1 0 Rate This
Surprised (slightly disappointed) but definitely confused as to why no one has mentioned the ‘NEW’ (*THE) * Rangers website, which appears to be (IS) the old RFC website before administration.
Remember the logo change? RFC 2012 ? the new look with the helpful ‘Administrators’ area? Paul McC pointing out to them about their legal requirements?
I see that *Rangers FC appear now to be out of administration, totally unscathed, history intact, bragging it’s continuous history and advice to shareholders ?
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I’ve been saying this for a while: but we all got caught up on the name thing when Sevco bought the assets. The whole “The” thing is a total red herring. Rangers were always The Rangers Football Club plc.
Though they were commonly known as “Rangers” or “Rangers FC” – these are simply trademarks previously owned by The Rangers Football Club plc. These names (trademarks) are now owned by the new club called The Rangers Football Club Ltd – previously called Sevco Scotland.
The real issue here is not that Sevco’s playing name is different from the old club’s name – it is not. Sevco, at the moment, can legally use all of the same trading names that the old club used previously.
The real issue is whether or not Sevco paid fair value for those trademarks – and all the other assets of The Rangers Football Club plc(IA). This is what BDO will have to decide.
The £1m Crossbar challenge is a nice piece of publicity.
No doubt it will be a profitable exercise too as the fans bombard the premium hotline number in order to enter.
Green is not daft.
A handful will be selected to try to win the prize.
They then have to hit the bar with one kick from a dead ball on the centre circle.
Not so easy.
In fact, the odds on the selected individuals achieving it will be pretty massive.
Someone might fluke it but, just as charities take out hole in one insurance for golf events, surely Green will take insurance out.
The odds of an amateur golfer hitting a hole in one are estimated to be about 1 in 12,500 and the insurance is extrapolated from this.
However, does anyone think Green might take the risk of not having the safety net of insurance in order to maximise profits?
Even if he does take out insurance, Sevco fans should read this.
The moral is read the small print and make sure the Ibrox pitch hasn’t been shortened before you take your kick.
Maybe i’ve had a sheltered life,but I have never heard the term Daleks used in relation to that terrible day,for Mcmurdo to bring the tragedy into focus to score a point against Thomson is without doubt the most despicable act anyone could commit.That is the lowest of the low.By the way I am 62.
Webster says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:07
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Is that me on the list now as well?
HirsutePursuit says:
September 7, 2012 at 00:23
‘The real issue is whether or not Sevco paid fair value for those trademarks – and all the other assets of The Rangers Football Club plc(IA). This is what BDO will have to decide.’
—-
There are several issues, of course, the importance of which will vary depending on the point of view of the observer.
They can be put into the following categories:
a) football issues ( i.e. sporting integrity/ bending of rules etc)
b) wider civic issues ( tax evasion, dodgy Administration, criminal conspiracy to defraud, improper political intervention etc)
c) ‘localised’ issues, like the ripping-off by shysters of perhaps thousands of ordinary people who support a football team that has been cruelly murdered by the self-same shysters
I would expect to find that most non-supporters of the murdered club put the categories in that order of precedence.
I certainly do.
That is,while I , as a tax-paying subject of our de facto but possibly not de jure Sovereign, may be seriously concerned at the possibility that the murdered club was a tax-evading institution, it is not my main concern.
Likewise, the fact that many everyday chaps, who are just ordinary supporters of the murdered club , are suffering on account of that murder does not leave me unmoved.
I have too many memories of what that bast.rd Kelly nearly did to my club, not all that many years ago, not to have some degree of empathy..
They have been shafted , conned, and lied to many times by the people in whom they placed their trust , and sadly continue to be shafted and conned and lied to.
No, my main concern , the ‘main issue’ for me, is the ‘footballing issue’: the serious question of the degree to which the murdered club was corruptly favoured while still alive, the unbelievably rule- breaking efforts being made by ‘establishment’ figures ,to pretend, as Norman Bates did in respect of his mother, that it is still alive; and the readiness to allow the rancid corpse to infect the sporting body as a whole.
On the issue of ‘dodgy Administration’, HirsutePursuit,you are of coursedead right.
BDO, once they get into it, will clearly want to ask questions about how assets valued at a about £5.5 million a couple of months ago can now be valued at £20 or £30 million!
More power to their elbow, if ultimately the unfortunate creditors can get a better return.
Your again off on an ever decreasing spiral of indulgence regards the rangers. I fear the pit shaft us creaking.
Here’s the truth, and only the truth.
Fans of Rangers are just that, fans. We seek, the atmosphere, the pies, the chat, the tube ride, the players playing and most of all; winning a game of football.
Really, the rest is unimportant.
Murray, white, green, brown, it makes no difference. Fans really only want to see their team play. They care a little if who owns it, but not a lot.
miki67 says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:30
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Never mind Bill McMurder. The man with the wee white bricks aka the pish stained alkie is so incensed by Alex Thomson and Phil Mac that he has changed his font to bold.
Time to see the Dr.
“””””””””””””””
Ah’ll get ma Tardis.
Just to comment on some of the excellent posts above…..
We are not the only ones being played here…
The truth will come out about CW being there with CG – but the important folks – the Bears – the customers will by then be so driven by the world records being set in 4th tier nonsense and the moonbeams part 2 being offered will shrug and say, well, its better than no club at all…….
Until they discover the money is on a conveyor belt going outward from Ibrox and that Bomber pointing to the back door at Ibrox was forewarning them….but it will be far too late by then….
Delays and deflection – the plan for them is working well.
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
I fear the Peepil once duped once with SDM, duped again by CW cannot bear to have been shown to repeat the same ignorance for 3rd time and will excuse themselves by saying so wat, we set the world record and Ally says we are fab etc.
And after CG/CW/Octopus make their money they will leave a shell of a club with no money and world records…
And it will be time for duping no 4.
All aided and abetted by idiots who were put in position sof powers by our clubs to look after the game in Scotland and ensure its progress.
Scotland’s football history – once proud – will be a shame for us all.
amurkypath says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:46
‘the atmosphere, the pies, the chat, the tube ride, ..’
—–
amurkypath, you have just accidentally triggered off a wave of nostalgia, talking about getting the subway to Ibrox ( in Glasgow one does not talk about the ‘tube’: it’s ‘subway’ or, grudgingly, the Clockwork o.ange!)
You’re probably too young to remember the old tunnel under the Clyde ( already just about closed to the public in1975). But it was heavily used by west-ender Gers to get across to Govan for home matches.
I think I only used it once to get to a Rangers-Celtic game and it was a fascinating experience.I was with my brother-in-law who was a Rangers supporter, while I was going to see Celtic. Must have been in ’65 or ’66, because he went to Canada afore the end of ’66.
Webster says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:07
Although born in Scotland have lived most of my life in England.
Is there any truth in this Bill McMurdo’s claim that:
“Thomson has joined the disgusting ranks of those who mock one of the worst days in football history by referring to Rangers fans as “Daleks” – a well-known reference in Scotland to the Ibrox Disaster.”
Is it true that people make this disgusting reference?
It can’t be true, can it??
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AT tweeted yesterday (mibbes Tuesday) about not having seen any wasps around lately, then, musing on what these flying insects would sound like if they could speak, guessed they’d sound like Daleks. A Rangers fan he was tweeting with simultaneously thought he was referring to the bears. As provocations go it’s more Gulf of Tonkin than Pearl Harbor.
I have to admit that I am no lover of Rangers Tribute Act, but only want to see the present rules within Scottish Football applied to them fairly, just as they are with every other club in Scotland.
I am however completely bemused and dumbfounded that nearly every Rangers Tribute Act supporter is unable to see that they are being completely fleeced by Charles White and anybody else associated with him.
The forthcoming Share Offer is just going to put their money straight into the back pocket of Charles Green and will ultimately put the Rangers Tribute Act into “administration” when he decides that he has bled them dry and pulls the plug on his “investment”.
I am aware that football supporters are generally quite gullible, by believing evertyhing they read and see in MSM when Rangers Tribute Act is mentioned, but when are they going to wake up and smell the coffee, because if they dont there club is doomed once more.
Their long term future lies completely in their own hands.
Sorry M8 Dreamer but we have shown over the last few months that we will attend and support our club. Yes, you may scoff, but our long term future is cetainly within our own hands,
M*Dreamer
says
I am however completely bemused and dumbfounded that nearly every Rangers Tribute Act supporter is unable to see that they are being completely fleeced by Charles White and anybody else associated with him.
Were you not done the same with Fergus?
What are your Celtic shares worth now?
The forthcoming Share Offer is just going to put their money straight into the back pocket of Charles Green and will ultimately put the Rangers Tribute Act into “administration” when he decides that he has bled them dry and pulls the plug on his “investment”.
Yes, fans will spend stupid money thinking they are part of the club, that is why it was strange Charle Green has spent so much time differentiating between club and company.
McMurdo is a liar, plain and simple
I’m no spring chicken, and I have never heard any of the victims of that sad day, referred to as Daleks, nor have I ever seen any Celtic minded web site refer to them in that way either
As Posmill pointed out it was a reference to wasps, and nothing to do with Sevco supporters
Yet again some idiot like McMurdo throws something out there, the lunatics latch onto it, and then use it as another example of the persecution they believe they are facing
They are not right in the head
Tic 6709 says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:17
14 0 Rate This
Maybe i’ve had a sheltered life,but I have never heard the term Daleks used in relation to that terrible day,for Mcmurdo to bring the tragedy into focus to score a point against Thomson is without doubt the most despicable act anyone could commit.That is the lowest of the low.By the way I am 62.
I’ve never heard of the term either and I’m 53 yrs old. McMurdo has always been a headcase, his home used to be called ibrox and he had UJs everywhere whenever he was photographed inside it.
He was of course Le Petit Merde’s agent.
So now the zealots turn on AT ,The worrying thing is that after seeing the brainwashing of 2012 fc fans regards the (we have been punished enough myth) they may actually fall for this complete and utter nonsense .I have lived in Glasgow all my life and have been to many derbies ,I know a lot of ragers fans ,I have never heard of the word Daleks being connected to ragers let alone the victims of a tragedy .No lets get it straight ,his crime in their deluded minds is that he wrote the foreword to a book asking questions of how a football club was run .
These complete morons that are fueling the fires of this so called hatred towards 2012 fc had better have a real good think about what they are doing .
They are in danger of creating a monster and if that monster gets too big they may not be able to put it back in it’s cage .
I would not have believed that so many ordinary Rangers fans would have fallen for the punishment myth but I have yet to meet any (except a few who post on here ) who have not .I knew it was essential that the siege mentality was instilled by any new buyer to ensure a fan base but IMO this is now getting out of control and the peepil driving it could not care a jot if it leads to violence on the streets .
The MSM should hang their heads in shame but somehow I don’t think they will
Just to make something clear McMurdo’s blog is not that of the agent but his son.
The Invisible Line says:
September 7, 2012 at 02:00
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
It is not just Thailand, it is a belief through all of Asia, the concept of “face” is what long ago Europeans might call honour. It certainly is not a penchant for duplicity.
Grant Russell of STV tweeting that TRFC are a new company so not liable for the oldco debts. However as the membership was transfered, then the club is the same club.
Good Morning.
As we wait for the certainty of the FTT we have yet another disgusting troublemaker trying to muddy the waters.
At 60 plus I have never heard that term used to refer to any Rangers supporter, far less any of the unfortunate souls who lost their lives on that dreadul day. It is a measure of the depths that these peole will sink to in order to create trouble. It is utterly horrible that he should seek to defile their memory in that way. They deserve better than to be associated with that filth.
Don’t give him the publicity.
On the same theme, as a youngster my parents would never let me go to these games, despite seeing Celtic every week. That game was my first “Old Firm” game and it was, believe it or not 2010 before I ever attended another.
Stay focused on the real issues of corruption.
Nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 7, 2012 at 08:01
It’s that Schroedingers Cat thing again !
Oldco Newco (when it suits)
OR
Oldco = Newco (when it suits)
I smell something fishy and it’s not Kit-e-Kat !!
Grant russell stv ye ye whatever!!
Oops – Looks like wordpress doesn’t like ‘not equals’ symbol.
I demand to know who this ‘no mark’ Bill McNurdo is!
What’s going on with the avatars??
Nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 7, 2012 at 08:01
2 0 Rate This
Grant Russell of STV tweeting that TRFC are a new company so not liable for the oldco debts. However as the membership was transfered, then the club is the same club.
————
Cheers NO&G, do you have the exact tweet for that? I checked the twitter discussion and he was getting it in the neck. But I couldn’t find the offending tweet on @STVGrant
It’s a bit surprising that Grant Russell would say that considering that even the much-maligned Jim Traynor now seems to have come down on the side of a complete newco club, judging from his Your Call programme at least.
The continuing confusion among sports writers is odd. I get the impression that some of them simply don’t know what to say because they do not understand how the SFA has worked this. I’m wondering if it’s because the SFA has muddied the waters by linking old football debts to newco? My sketchy understanding is that new Rangers got fast-tracked into the 3rd if they promised to pay off old Rangers football debts. So a continous link was, perhaps, artificially created via that piece of Heath-Robinson inventiveness.
Even Mr Green now seems convinced that the admins sold him the club history – since he couldn’t maintain it through the CVA route. How convenient. There is so much verbal trickery going on here that it is easy to lose the plot.
Captain Haddock says:
September 6, 2012 at 22:11
I took the plunge and emailed Private Eye? Felt like a real amateur though.
——
Aye, me too. Quite a difficult thing to summarise in a short email!
Perhaps if Hislop gets a few emails on the subject he’ll take an interest. I directed them here and to RTC for background info. 😉
Private Eye loves to get torn in where the MSM fears to tread, so fingers crossed …
I get it now. Green’s going to a flit with the share issue cash whilst the Bears are watching the final of the crossbar challenge.
I’m particularly looking forward to Gordon Smith explain how the Sevco share issue will allow fans to own a piece of the club after his “holding company” shtick when 1872 co went to the wall. Start rehearsing now Gordon.
I well remember the dreadfull day of the disaster, it was several hours before we knew that a family member was safe. There was no phone, and it was only when he arrived home that we knew he had not been involved. This apparent accusation of referring to victims as daleks is a total invention. I have never heard the reference used anywhere or at any time over the years since the terrible accident happened. This rabble rouser must be exposed as a mischief maker and forced to retract his accusation.
Update from St.Mirren fans buy-out consortium. Now, what are we buying..club or company 😉
7th September Update
We can confirm that we have now had a response from the Selling Consortium to the bid which was submitted on August 24th.
We have been asked to review two particular clauses within the offer and re-submit the bid.
We are in the process of completing this task and intend to re-submit our updated offer to the Selling Consortium today.
Thanks again for your continued support.
test?
The CVA was formally rejected on the 14th June.
22nd June Lord Hodge demands a report from D & D, and wants it within two week.
It was said the administrators would still be in house for 10 – 12 weeks before BDO take over.
12 weeks today have now passed since the CVA was rejected, someone is delaying this, and its not by accident.
I would imagine that the result of the FTT and BDO taking over from D & D will take place at the same time.
The same smell still surrounds this, and the fear is that this will all disappear.
Forget, Templeton signing, forget McCoist bully boy, lets get to the real issues here, why all the delays??
I well remember the Ibrox tragedy, hearing the first reports on tv, that numb feeling of hopelessness and who do I know that might be there? Meeting my mates in the Queen’s Arms in Edinburgh and realising someone, a Rangers fan who went to all their games, wasn’t there. Watching the confirmed dead figures rising on the pub tv, then the relief when that mate arrived, his face pale and tears in his eyes. I’ll never forget that. What’s more, no one could ever convince me that around Scotland that the same scene wasn’t happening in pubs frequented by Celtic fans. The Ibrox disaster didn’t just happen to Rangers fans, it happened to us all. Some of the those who sadly lost their lives will have had family and friends who supported Celtic, and other teams, who’s lives would have been affected by their loss. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone, not least a Celtic fan, crack a joke or make a disparaging remark about that terrible day. That a Rangers supporter should be the first to use that disaster (second actually when you think of the disaster memorial AT misunderstanding) to deflect from the Ibrox goings-on speaks volumes for the morals of those people. I have never heard any reference to the Ibrox dead as being ‘daleks’, nor can I work out why anyone would use that description. I can, however, imagine someone who’s life has been filled with hate misreading the word ‘wasps’ and thinking it was ‘watps’ and desperately using it as a weapon against anyone who they see as anti-Rangers. But daleks? How sick must someone be to see this as a reference to the dead? Unless they have used it themselves, of course!
To be honest, it takes a pretty sick individual, to turn a totally unrelated comment, into an insult to the the fans of your own team who died on that tragic day
Unfortunately, he is typical of a large section of Sevco supporters, who have no problem twisting and distorting facts, to attack those who do not agree with their perception of reality, and are not afraid to say so
And they wonder why they and their club are so despised
Not sure if this was mentioned before. Last Saturday on Radio Scotland at about 1.30pm Derek Ferguson quipped that the reason Maurice Johnstone signed for Rangers was “a million pounds in a Swiss bank account”. It may be a metaphorical million pounds but it may be true and could mark the beginning of David Murray’s tax dodging schemes.
just reading last night’s and this mornings posts and I would like to add my comments on this disgusting McMurdo blog.
I attended the Ibrox disaster game (Celtic End) and had pals in Copland Road end, I lost a good pal and two near neighbours. I have NEVER heard any deragatory remarks from decent Celtic fans nor heard the term “daleks” used. Just ignore these sad comments.
Allyjambo @ 09:31
In certain places a wasp is short for “White Anglo Saxon Prot****nts”
Perhaps in their deranged minds that is the association they have made
A long time ago a bar owner who did sterling work raising money for a certain charity once told me-“Remember it is actually easier to get £1.00 of 100 people than to get £100.00 of 1 person”
The upcoming IPO is based on that principle. Mr Charles is hoping that there are enough people out there will to part with their pounds.
As i keep saying if he pulls it off and puts the money into the footballing side of things to run a sustainable club, then fair play to him.
A few simple questions the Sevconians need to be asking themselves are
– While Mr Charles has done some of the things he said he would, how many of the other things reported have not happened. (e.g CHARLES GREEN last night said he has a list of 19 signing targets for Rangers – five of them playing at Euro 2012.) In other words would you buy a used car off this man.
– Is this the fault of the MSM or Green and Sally or both.
– If this share issue goes ahead before the end of the year how will the money be used given the registration ban is in place until 2014 and only free agents can be signed from 1 Sept 2013 to 2014. In other words what do you do with £20m burning a whole in your pocket for 8 or 9 months, keeping in mind the Duff & Duffer figures for running the club and that clubs like Hearts and Hibs operating annual spend including players wages was around £13m and £8m respectivley for the last full season.
-Realisticaly how many fans will stump up cash and how much?
A ready reckoner to help out in terms of reaching £20m with fans alone.
1000 = £20,000 per head
5000 = £4,000 per head
10,000 = £2,000 per head
For a more realistic figure take the current home game support at Ibrox as being circa 40,000 as a round figure
40,000 – £500 per head.
This is not unreasonable but one has to take into account that the fans have already shelled out for the season tickets this year and if promoted through merit or re-organisation next years books are going to increase.
While it was a different time wiki says that 10,000 Celtic fans provided £14m in the public share offering which helped rebuild Celtic Park, therefore £1,400 per head. It could be argued there are enough T’Rangers fans out there with that kind of dough.
However Celtic fans could see where the money was going and the club also benefitted from a massive increase in season tickets, which T’Rangers this season have maxed out on.
The Grant Russell tweets
@STVGrant: @EdgarBlamm @StMiley @hen1rik It is a new company. So they aren’t responsible for the debt of the old company.
@STVGrant: @StMiley @hen1rik My stance hasn’t changed at all. My opinion club would continue if SFA membership transferred. It was.
As the terrifying reality of any possible sanctions being placed on this *NEWCLUB start to sink in…………..
There are cleverly constructed arguments deliberately being peddled by our friends at Media House to distinguish and confuse between when a club is a *Club and a Company is a *Club and when a Company is not a *Club and when a Club is not a Company………………. see what I mean!
ok, perhaps some salient questions one of our intrepid journalists could ask in light of the recent announcement that RFC is to be floated on the Stock Market….
1. Are *The Rangers (Sevco) FC fans being asked to invest in a *Club or a Company?
2. Which ‘entity’ (< very important word right there – remember that word) is traded on the stock Market? *Club or Company?
3. What was the conclusion of the Plus Markets Investigation when RFC PLC traded last?
4. What will the Insolvency Service/ Companies House/HMRC (among a host of other exiting bodies) have to say in regard to this 'Phantom' Company trading on the Stock Market/AIM Listed?
5. The alleged "5 way agreement" contains nothing to suggest that CG has agreed to ANY punishment or sanction for his *NEWCLUB in regard to "sneaky payments". Indeed the Administrators latest report confirms as such.
6. Why does the SMSM continue to peddle this myth that stripping of titles is a punishment. IT IS NOT! It would be a CONSEQUENCE – I know you are reading this 😉
7. Is prize money/ sponsorship etc etc paid to *Club or Company?
………………….and so to the last question, that remains astonishingly obvious, yet unanswered
CG confirmed in his purchase agreement with the Administrators, that all rights/assets of the COMPANY & CLUB (ground/ trophies/ honours etc) were bought by his NEWCO Company
So Honours were purchased by a Company NOT the *Club – As we keep hearing THE COMPANY IS DEAD THE CLUB SURVIVED
*THE CLUB has no honours. These are OWNED by the Holding Company!
😉
tombrann says:
September 7, 2012 at 09:16
I well remember the dreadful day of the disaster, it was several hours before we knew that a family member was safe. There was no phone, and it was only when he arrived home
————————————
I too remember that dreadful day. We were gathered at a work colleague’s house in East Kilbride for a work related New Year party. Our host was an Aberdeen supporter, myself a Celtic supporter as well as a few others who supported others teams and some none at all had gathered. One of our managers who we expected at the party was a Rangers supporter who we knew was attending the match. He didn’t turn up at the agreed time and the party never got started as we were so worried about his safety. He eventually arrived later in the evening to the relief and delight of us all. He explained what misery and carnage he had seen and we then all went home feeling very sad.
It is clear that young McMurdo has no idea or sought to gain an understanding what it was like to be a football supporter or ordinary Glaswegian on that day. If he is aware and I’m sure his father has made him fully aware of the horrible events of that day, it is reprehensible for him to use these events to stir up hatred in order to attempt to raise his personal profile within the TRFC community. (Midcalderan, aged 64).
Regarding all the comments about the upcoming share issue, I think we are getting deflected by all the chatter about holding co’s etc. In the grand scheme of things does it really matter who or what the shares are in. What Green is doing is asking Rangers fans to cough up and put enough money into the bank to repay the original investors their money back with an agreed level of profit. After that it’s goodbye and good luck.
The fans will then be left with a club which has very little income stream left and no way of raising additional funds. Administration will soon follow (it’ll be interesting to see if the club is docked 25 points or just 10). Whether the club can survive as a going concern in the long run is doubtful.
Green has managed to get the fans to part with their cash for ST’s (and for that he has my grudging admiration, I never in a minute thought that he would get so many) and a fair few are turning up and paying at the gate but in this respect the fans can see what they are getting. OK the ST holders are taking a bit of a chance in that they might not see out the season but their tickets were honoured last season when they should have been voided so why should this season be any different. The turn up and pay fans have nothing to lose. The weather has been kind and the alternative is taking the kids to an adventure park or whatever and spending £30/£40 (I suppose this is an argument for dropping admission prices throughout the leagues but that’s for a different discussion). The real test will be a wet Tuesday night in October.
However buying shares in the club (or whatever) is a totally different ball game. There is no dividend paid (or likely to be paid). It is in essence an interest free loan with very little chance of the loan being repaid. They might raise around £2m from those fans with enough sentimental attachment but I cannot see a huge rush to buy.
So far Green has had a particularly easy time of it, he has played his hand well, and he has rallied the troops with ease. However a share issue (as Murray found out) will not be the cakewalk he might think it will be. Questions will be asked about the £30m he promised, names of the other investors will need to be provided, but most importantly he will be asking fans to dip into their pockets at a crucial time of the year. With Xmas coming up pressure will be on to provide money for other purposes. Will an investment in RFC be seen as the perfect Christmas gift or will it be a financial commitment too far.
Green might now find that he has overplayed his hand.
“exiting” > external!
Enfakid
I can assure you that I am not a Celtic supporter or have any sympathies towards them whatsover. As a football supporter for 50 years and a season ticket holder for 30 years of another
SPL Club, I can still remember too many games, where my team played very well against Celtic
only to be beaten by the best club side in Scotland that I have ever witnessed. (Celtic 1967 -1975)
The point I was trying to make is not the loyalty shown by Rangers Tribute Act supporters during
this fiasco, but merely that if your supporters do not waken up shortly, you will be left with no club to support
Partick dad says:
September 7, 2012 at 09:38
Not sure if this was mentioned before. Last Saturday on Radio Scotland at about 1.30pm Derek Ferguson quipped that the reason Maurice Johnstone signed for Rangers was “a million pounds in a Swiss bank account”. It may be a metaphorical million pounds but it may be true and could mark the beginning of David Murray’s tax dodging schemes
——————————————
Sorry but that story is so far off the mark. Some time ago I posted on RTC the true version of events. I managed to see copies of faxes from Nantes (they were in French and had to be translated) and essentially Johnston tried to do the deal himself without McMurdo’s input. The sticking point was who paid the tax on the deal, Celtic refused and McMurdo then offered him to Murray.
SSN reporting that Sevco have signed Australian striker Francesco Stella. He’s been on trial with them and, believe it or not (another new rule), they’ve got round the embargo because they applied for his registration before the embargo kicked in!
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
My understanding is that Stella signed before the window closed.
The issue is in relation to being non EU and therefore, in terms of UK employment law as opposed to footballing registration rules, he needs the International Work Permit.
I am positive that with a little googling you will find plenty examples of players signing then having to wait until international clearance is given.
Clutching at straws methinks but willing to be proved wrong.
enfakid says:
September 7, 2012 at 07:31
The Invisible Line says:
September 7, 2012 at 02:00
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
It is not just Thailand, it is a belief through all of Asia, the concept of “face” is what long ago Europeans might call honour. It certainly is not a penchant for duplicity.
************
Sorry Enfakid – you are talkign to a resident of Thailand here – you may enjoy trying to correct everyone and everybody, but having been in Thailand for a while, I can tell you that this has the most extreme face saving concept of anywhere – and duplicity – well even the Thais tell you they are two faced 🙂
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
0 0 Rate This
SSN reporting that Sevco have signed Australian striker Francesco Stella. He’s been on trial with them and, believe it or not (another new rule), they’ve got round the embargo because they applied for his registration before the embargo kicked in!
==========
I will spend most of the day trying to figure that one out !
If they had decided that the trial proved him to be not good enough, would this registration be one of the clubs a player is allowed in any one season or ……….. no, I will go and think about how anyone can make sense of this.
I was there that day – never understood why the media went with the story that rangers fans were leaving, going down stairway 13, and then when the equaliser was scored the fans tried to get back up the stairs and this caused the terrible crush which took the lives of older men, young men and young lads.
I was there that day. I stood at the rangers end mid way down from the top of the terracing. Celtic scored to make it 1-0 with a few minutes left. We, like many others decided to leave as it appeared we were going to lose (again). By the time we reached the top of the terracing, near stairway 13, we stopped. Rangers had a free kick, the ball went to greig who crossed into the middle. Stein, who had spent the afternoon in McNeill’s back pocket, inexplicably found space and scored the equaliser. How we cheered and celebrated. The final whistle blew seconds after the restart and we headed home to celebrate our ‘victory’.
We went down stairway 13. I had noticed two young lads behind me carrying on with one being carried on his mates shoulders. I started to panic as the crush was getting worse than usual. I got to the bottom with my feet bairly touching the stairs. The young lads fell as the crush got worse and more people fell as the crowds coming off the terracing, unaware of what was happening, pushed on. I had reached the bottom of the stairs by this time. I thank god every day that I was a few seconds in advance of the tragedy.
So it didn’t happen the way the press reported it at the time. The crush started well after the goal was scored and after the final whistle – seems their inaccuracy is not just about what they are reporting today – it goes way, way back.
I stopped supporting that club when I witnessed the events of the 1981? cup final, when I stood on the terracing at the rangers end and watched with horror as the ‘sons of william’ launched attacks on the Celtic supporters (if you think it was bad watching it on tv then that was nothing compared to what was to happen outside the ground.
But no one should ever use the disaster to insult anyone and I believe the ‘attack’ on Alex Thomson to be fabricated. What is therefore absolutely criminal is so called sons of William using the lost lives of ordinary men and boys, as a tactic to discredit their opposition.
This might need a sit down with a cup of tea thing – interrelated strands – just a theory
It’s about the “History” bit regarding CG / D+P possibly playing with legal bonfires to come.
Well we know in June D+P “sold” the “business and assets” to CG that morphed in July/ August to include “business assets and history” and we know the official TRFC website now includes the history as if nowt had happened. So;
In March – we knew LH “Directions” on the TU Contract, meant that it was subject to Scots Law interpretation, TU possibly messed up on English interpretation, but nevertheless, RFC would be obliged to repay TU – if – RFC did not go to into liquidation and the TU legacy contract stood. If RFC were, to be, liquated, the TU Contract would be an irrelevance – subject to little complexities of illegal contracts / naughty things / guarantees etc. Nevertheless with upcoming liquidation, D+P felt confident to sell “the business and assets” to CG in June and objected to the TU historical debt. But that`s not the main point.
The fact is that the first year of the TU contract was executed. That is the first of the initial 3 year contract. Legally things are not settled presently – but if TRFC persist with the history rights thing they may have inadvertently changed the legal landscape and possibly the Administration`s basis. TU might now be able to claim RFC[IA] historical second place last year in the SPL could not have been achieved without the benefit of the first year of the TU contract – as example. Either parts of a company are to be liquidated or they are not – just like you can’t be partly pregnant. If a part of RFC is not to be liquidated i.e. “sold” to CG as the business and assets – moving forward with a fresh start into the future – then in theory TU have only non-secured creditor status on oldco RFC. However, if TRFC, choose to include the oldco history [i.e. not liquidated] – TU could in theory claim then that the contract should stand and they will have to execute the remainder of that legacy contract moving forward in future too, or breach and risk liability in damages – as that intrinsic part of the old company – the history – has not been put into the liquidation pot – and still exists according to TRFC – including TU legacy contracts pre the sale to CG. That could be legally true for other historical contracts. Indeed the whole debt in a legal sense. Could there be new light for the creditors?
That`s what worried BM – legacy contracts – Indeed as a further twist, Remember the halcyon days of Bill Miller and the Incubator that piled radiation on the oldco toxic debt [incl TU] to clean it up after which then was re-joined with the newco to live happily ever after. But BM did need the oldco history cleared. I`ll try not to be distracted by the mixed group of workmates I saw the worst for wear discussing how you put a football club into a radioactive incubator and the wickedly funny Glasgow humour from both sides that followed [you had to be there]
But there are some interesting possibilities. After 3-5 years of liquidation proceedings whatever’s left monetarily normally goes to the creditors and I presume the company is then dissolved / struck-off and ceases to be. But even if what is left is financially shorn, there`ll still be papers, records, history, and former shareholders and members company share certificates in existence. What if the principle former shareholders / members had an interest in purchasing the old certificates and history and persuaded BDO there was added value in not completely striking off the original company and its history. Surely they`d want to save that from a dissolution abyss?
Surely BDO would be obliged to put the former Companies Registration, Records and certificates up for sale on the open market if there was still a residual creditor value to some? I`ll wager there are a number of wealthy RFC people that would compete to pay a pretty penny to get title – and history – to the old company – to knock the door of CG and his investors [or whoever’s in place then] and demand a shareholding in future trading including a seat on the Board at least. An Interesting possible little conundrum for any potential share issue.
In summary, is this history element contributing to the on-going wait for LHs assessment? Has the Administration legal landscape changed if they now wish to trade on with the oldco legacy history?
iki says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:28
Stella was a free agent having left Siena, therefore presumably his registration was up for grabs.
If T’Rangers bagged that before the end of the transfer window then they have 14 days to submit the necessary papers to the SFL.
The internatrional work permit is another issue all together.
If that fails to materialise then presumably the deal is off and the registration and player contract papers being submitted to the SFL with have a clause to that effect.
WOTTPI says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:26
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
My understanding is that Stella signed before the window closed.
The issue is in relation to being non EU and therefore, in terms of UK employment law as opposed to footballing registration rules, he needs the International Work Permit.
I am positive that with a little googling you will find plenty examples of players signing then having to wait until international clearance is given.
Clutching at straws methinks but willing to be proved wrong.
___________________________________________________________
I’m sure this will be the ‘reasoning’ behind it but it will refer to the transfer window closing which is maybe fair enough. Rangers, however, have a registration embargo, that started, I believe, at one minute passed midnight on 1st September. A registration embargo is not the same as the closing of the transfer window, which is not a penalty, just a plain old rule. Rangers knew that they had this registration embargo and that anyone they wanted to sign would have to be registered before it kicked in. With this in mind they should only have been interested in players with no need for visas, or, started the registration process early (perhaps before they were sure they really wanted the player), or, accepted that if the visa didn’t come through in time they’d wasted their, and the player’s, time. This might have made things a bit difficult for Sevco, but then isn’t that what it was meant to do?
With this in mind, why did Green go ahead with signing Stella? Was this what the six hour time wasting meeting was about the night before the transfer deadline ended, and the embargo kicked in? Yet another deadline missed!
When is a registration embargo not a registration embargo? Perhaps the answer is; when anyone representing what used to be Rangers is about to launch a share issue to the people who think they still follow Rangers!
enfakid says:
September 7, 2012 at 07:31
‘.just to make something clear McMurdo’s blog is not that of the agent but his son.’
—–
Very glad to hear it. I hope father at least metaphorically kicks son’s ar.e good and hard.
Any footbal supporter who does not have the full respect for the unfortunate victims of any football tragedy whether it be Ibrox, Hillsborough, Bradford. Hysel, etc does not belong to the human race.
While many football supporters may not have any assocation with the clubs that have been involved in these tragedies, the least that they should do is to respect the dead, as you are all part of the football family.
Angus says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:44
==========================================================================
Angus,
I’ve said before,Our little Yorkshire Pudding(copyright claimed) may be crass,immoral,sleekit,call him what you like but he is not stupid.He knows what he’s doing.i’d bet that even if BDO annul the sale of the club,he’ll still walk away with a profit.Probably due to his connections(still unproven but we’re sure they exist) with Betts,Ellis and a certain Monaco based “billionaire”.
He knows where the fixed/floating charges are held and how much they’re worth,unlike D&P who have had only 6 months to find out.
Any SEVCONIANS in the Scotland squad?
paulmac says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:57
Any SEVCONIANS in the Scotland squad?
========================================================================
No.
there may be problems with their registrations. :clap:
So the fans are going to get the chance to buy shares in a new holding company.
Remember it won’t be the club they are buying shares in because according to our media and Chas you can’t buy shares in a football club only a holding company.
What a share certificate that will be. You will be able to fill in your own company name and select a watermark of your choice.
If ACME did share issues.
Angus says,
I took the plunge and emailed Private Eye? Felt like a real amateur though.
Some of the smileys don’t work. 😉
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 6, 2012 at 21:57
Has no one found the link between Chas and Craig yet?
There is one you know!!!
Torrevieja Johnbhoy @ 22:08
Well this is a ‘real’ game so I take it all registrations have to be above board! Lol that would be a first for the sfa? 🙂
Need to check the Celtic Share price tomorrow.This not to be missed share issue values “The Rangers” at £30m and according to CG,this time next year they’ll have the best balance sheet,money in the bank, no debt.
Why are we even bothering playing.We’re all(the other 42 clubs.RFC(IA) are still technically here) just biding time until we’re swamped by the Sevco juggernaught.And when we are swamped,we’ve to remember to be grateful if CG,Ally etc allow us to continue,albeit in their shadow. 😆
StevieBC says:
September 6, 2012 at 19:13
From Sky;
“The new owner of Rangers Football Club is close to appointing advisers to kick off a swift return to the London stock market…
People close to the situation said that it could seek to raise as much as £20m, part of which is likely to be used to fund the acquisitions of new players…”
mmm…
http://news.sky.com/story/981908/exclusive-rangers-plots-stock-market-return
=========================
… to fund the acquisitions of new players…in January 2014 … maybe.
Oh and it can seek to do anything it wants. David Murray sought to raise £50m, he did, from his own company.
I wonder how the Sevco supporters will feel, when they learn that they are being offered shares in the company and not the club 🙂
As I have posted previously, It would be interesting to know if a certain Mr. A. Cameron will be at the head of the queue for shares.( Once bitten, twice shy).
Agrajag says:
September 6, 2012 at 22:39
David Murray sought to raise £50m, he did, from his own company
or at least he put it on his companies tab, and we all picked it up later.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 6, 2012 at 14:58
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Excellent
I wont go into what I have recently uncovered as there is clearly some D&P and Sevco professionals reading and acting on the work of this Blog
eg
It is no longer possible to find any RFC plc (pre name change to RFC 2012) details at Companies House…….like from this week
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Suffice it to say
Having researched the facts in the public domain and joined the dots
I am fairly sure that the situation is as follows
Green owns Ibrox outright with no floating charge
Whyte owns Murray Park outright through one of his cos
Close Leasing owns the Azure Catering contract income from Sevco until their debt is repaid
The Ticketus ST contract is now with Sevco and their debt of c£40m will have to be repaid out of future STs. Repayments may currently be on hold
The Ticketus v Craig Whyte court case is a temporary smokescreen to cover any embarassments uncovered by BDO. It will quietly die in due course
The October fundraising won`t put a penny into the sporting side of Sevco
The financial cracks will emerge after Green and the rest of the spivs move on
Worse of all………. it will all be legal
,,,,,,,,,,,
I feel sorry for those decent Bears who made some magnificent contributions to this Blog and its predecessor
But I believe Sevco are seriously stuffed financially for the foreseeable future
Captain Haddock says:
September 6, 2012 at 17:03
4 0 Rate This
HirsutePursuit,
Good point, but I seem to remember CG claiming this was all part of the £1 Goodwill “purchase”.
Considering how much else D&P sold for a pound, you could almost believe CG this time.
Not a financial brain myself, are these types of sale values normal when selling as a “going concern”? Considering the amount creditors will not be getting, D&P sold assets at scandalously low prices.
But then again it was to someone assisting them in the scam, oops, sorrry, “transition”, so that must be alright then…
=================================
Goodwill is simply the difference in value between the tangible (physical) assets held by a business and the total value of that business. It could include reputation, trademarks, customer lists, potential profit margin from future sales, etc. These intangible assets normally come with the purchase of a business.
Interesting that when the total value of Fixed Charge Assets was given as £113m, goodwill was valued at £620k.
Hmmm…
Actually, since my original post, I’ve checked with the Intellectual Property Office (no really… that’s what it’s called) and the trademarks were indeed transferred to Sevco on 14th June 2012.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-adp?propnum=1022416001
Which means that the Rangers name (using which Sevco have just sold 33,000 season tickets) along with the customer list (used to sell those season tickets), branding rights, and royalties – were all sold for £1.
hmmm…
Surprised (slightly disappointed) but definitely confused as to why no one has mentioned the ‘NEW’ (*THE) * Rangers website, which appears to be (IS) the old RFC website before administration.
Remember the logo change? RFC 2012 ? the new look with the helpful ‘Administrators’ area? Paul McC pointing out to them about their legal requirements?
I see that *Rangers FC appear now to be out of administration, totally unscathed, history intact, bragging it’s continuous history and advice to shareholders ?
It may be worth keeping an eye on Alex Tomo’s blog on Friday
alex thomson @alextomo
Friday – Tomoblog – Anger, Frustration, Dignity and Unanswered Questions – one ordinary Rangers fan let’s rip from the heart
Good to see that he is still interested in RFC(IA)/Sevco
SDM tried raising money from fans and got about £1m and a bit. I could see then that there was likely an attitude amongst Gers fans that ‘why shound we pay for the debts of that multi millionaire’? Hence as low as £1m.
Its different now – the choice laid before the fans is that there may not be a club if Green doesnt succeed – akin to why the fans are showing support via large attendances at the moment (hats off to them – I for one did not see home gates of that number). I could see why Green might expect a better fan’s cash response than last time, but I doubt if they will get much more than £5m.
TheBlackKnight says:
September 6, 2012 at 23:45
1 0 Rate This
Surprised (slightly disappointed) but definitely confused as to why no one has mentioned the ‘NEW’ (*THE) * Rangers website, which appears to be (IS) the old RFC website before administration.
Remember the logo change? RFC 2012 ? the new look with the helpful ‘Administrators’ area? Paul McC pointing out to them about their legal requirements?
I see that *Rangers FC appear now to be out of administration, totally unscathed, history intact, bragging it’s continuous history and advice to shareholders ?
=======================================
I’ve been saying this for a while: but we all got caught up on the name thing when Sevco bought the assets. The whole “The” thing is a total red herring. Rangers were always The Rangers Football Club plc.
As I posted earlier, Sevco bought the Rangers trademarks on 14th June:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-adp?propnum=1022416001
Though they were commonly known as “Rangers” or “Rangers FC” – these are simply trademarks previously owned by The Rangers Football Club plc. These names (trademarks) are now owned by the new club called The Rangers Football Club Ltd – previously called Sevco Scotland.
The real issue here is not that Sevco’s playing name is different from the old club’s name – it is not. Sevco, at the moment, can legally use all of the same trading names that the old club used previously.
The real issue is whether or not Sevco paid fair value for those trademarks – and all the other assets of The Rangers Football Club plc(IA). This is what BDO will have to decide.
The £1m Crossbar challenge is a nice piece of publicity.
No doubt it will be a profitable exercise too as the fans bombard the premium hotline number in order to enter.
Green is not daft.
A handful will be selected to try to win the prize.
They then have to hit the bar with one kick from a dead ball on the centre circle.
Not so easy.
In fact, the odds on the selected individuals achieving it will be pretty massive.
Someone might fluke it but, just as charities take out hole in one insurance for golf events, surely Green will take insurance out.
The odds of an amateur golfer hitting a hole in one are estimated to be about 1 in 12,500 and the insurance is extrapolated from this.
However, does anyone think Green might take the risk of not having the safety net of insurance in order to maximise profits?
Even if he does take out insurance, Sevco fans should read this.
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/hole_in_one_ace_sues_for_4kfiBvVrgRj0agKB0Aj8TK
The moral is read the small print and make sure the Ibrox pitch hasn’t been shortened before you take your kick.
Maybe i’ve had a sheltered life,but I have never heard the term Daleks used in relation to that terrible day,for Mcmurdo to bring the tragedy into focus to score a point against Thomson is without doubt the most despicable act anyone could commit.That is the lowest of the low.By the way I am 62.
Webster says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:07
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Is that me on the list now as well?
HirsutePursuit says:
September 7, 2012 at 00:23
‘The real issue is whether or not Sevco paid fair value for those trademarks – and all the other assets of The Rangers Football Club plc(IA). This is what BDO will have to decide.’
—-
There are several issues, of course, the importance of which will vary depending on the point of view of the observer.
They can be put into the following categories:
a) football issues ( i.e. sporting integrity/ bending of rules etc)
b) wider civic issues ( tax evasion, dodgy Administration, criminal conspiracy to defraud, improper political intervention etc)
c) ‘localised’ issues, like the ripping-off by shysters of perhaps thousands of ordinary people who support a football team that has been cruelly murdered by the self-same shysters
I would expect to find that most non-supporters of the murdered club put the categories in that order of precedence.
I certainly do.
That is,while I , as a tax-paying subject of our de facto but possibly not de jure Sovereign, may be seriously concerned at the possibility that the murdered club was a tax-evading institution, it is not my main concern.
Likewise, the fact that many everyday chaps, who are just ordinary supporters of the murdered club , are suffering on account of that murder does not leave me unmoved.
I have too many memories of what that bast.rd Kelly nearly did to my club, not all that many years ago, not to have some degree of empathy..
They have been shafted , conned, and lied to many times by the people in whom they placed their trust , and sadly continue to be shafted and conned and lied to.
No, my main concern , the ‘main issue’ for me, is the ‘footballing issue’: the serious question of the degree to which the murdered club was corruptly favoured while still alive, the unbelievably rule- breaking efforts being made by ‘establishment’ figures ,to pretend, as Norman Bates did in respect of his mother, that it is still alive; and the readiness to allow the rancid corpse to infect the sporting body as a whole.
On the issue of ‘dodgy Administration’, HirsutePursuit,you are of coursedead right.
BDO, once they get into it, will clearly want to ask questions about how assets valued at a about £5.5 million a couple of months ago can now be valued at £20 or £30 million!
More power to their elbow, if ultimately the unfortunate creditors can get a better return.
Your again off on an ever decreasing spiral of indulgence regards the rangers. I fear the pit shaft us creaking.
Here’s the truth, and only the truth.
Fans of Rangers are just that, fans. We seek, the atmosphere, the pies, the chat, the tube ride, the players playing and most of all; winning a game of football.
Really, the rest is unimportant.
Murray, white, green, brown, it makes no difference. Fans really only want to see their team play. They care a little if who owns it, but not a lot.
miki67 says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:30
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Never mind Bill McMurder. The man with the wee white bricks aka the pish stained alkie is so incensed by Alex Thomson and Phil Mac that he has changed his font to bold.
Time to see the Dr.
“””””””””””””””
Ah’ll get ma Tardis.
Just to comment on some of the excellent posts above…..
We are not the only ones being played here…
The truth will come out about CW being there with CG – but the important folks – the Bears – the customers will by then be so driven by the world records being set in 4th tier nonsense and the moonbeams part 2 being offered will shrug and say, well, its better than no club at all…….
Until they discover the money is on a conveyor belt going outward from Ibrox and that Bomber pointing to the back door at Ibrox was forewarning them….but it will be far too late by then….
Delays and deflection – the plan for them is working well.
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
I fear the Peepil once duped once with SDM, duped again by CW cannot bear to have been shown to repeat the same ignorance for 3rd time and will excuse themselves by saying so wat, we set the world record and Ally says we are fab etc.
And after CG/CW/Octopus make their money they will leave a shell of a club with no money and world records…
And it will be time for duping no 4.
All aided and abetted by idiots who were put in position sof powers by our clubs to look after the game in Scotland and ensure its progress.
Scotland’s football history – once proud – will be a shame for us all.
amurkypath says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:46
‘the atmosphere, the pies, the chat, the tube ride, ..’
—–
amurkypath, you have just accidentally triggered off a wave of nostalgia, talking about getting the subway to Ibrox ( in Glasgow one does not talk about the ‘tube’: it’s ‘subway’ or, grudgingly, the Clockwork o.ange!)
You’re probably too young to remember the old tunnel under the Clyde ( already just about closed to the public in1975). But it was heavily used by west-ender Gers to get across to Govan for home matches.
I think I only used it once to get to a Rangers-Celtic game and it was a fascinating experience.I was with my brother-in-law who was a Rangers supporter, while I was going to see Celtic. Must have been in ’65 or ’66, because he went to Canada afore the end of ’66.
Webster says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:07
Although born in Scotland have lived most of my life in England.
Is there any truth in this Bill McMurdo’s claim that:
“Thomson has joined the disgusting ranks of those who mock one of the worst days in football history by referring to Rangers fans as “Daleks” – a well-known reference in Scotland to the Ibrox Disaster.”
Is it true that people make this disgusting reference?
It can’t be true, can it??
=========================
AT tweeted yesterday (mibbes Tuesday) about not having seen any wasps around lately, then, musing on what these flying insects would sound like if they could speak, guessed they’d sound like Daleks. A Rangers fan he was tweeting with simultaneously thought he was referring to the bears. As provocations go it’s more Gulf of Tonkin than Pearl Harbor.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/jose-mourinho-warns-you-can-t-buy-history-1-2512122
I have to admit that I am no lover of Rangers Tribute Act, but only want to see the present rules within Scottish Football applied to them fairly, just as they are with every other club in Scotland.
I am however completely bemused and dumbfounded that nearly every Rangers Tribute Act supporter is unable to see that they are being completely fleeced by Charles White and anybody else associated with him.
The forthcoming Share Offer is just going to put their money straight into the back pocket of Charles Green and will ultimately put the Rangers Tribute Act into “administration” when he decides that he has bled them dry and pulls the plug on his “investment”.
I am aware that football supporters are generally quite gullible, by believing evertyhing they read and see in MSM when Rangers Tribute Act is mentioned, but when are they going to wake up and smell the coffee, because if they dont there club is doomed once more.
Their long term future lies completely in their own hands.
Sorry M8 Dreamer but we have shown over the last few months that we will attend and support our club. Yes, you may scoff, but our long term future is cetainly within our own hands,
M*Dreamer
says
I am however completely bemused and dumbfounded that nearly every Rangers Tribute Act supporter is unable to see that they are being completely fleeced by Charles White and anybody else associated with him.
Were you not done the same with Fergus?
What are your Celtic shares worth now?
The forthcoming Share Offer is just going to put their money straight into the back pocket of Charles Green and will ultimately put the Rangers Tribute Act into “administration” when he decides that he has bled them dry and pulls the plug on his “investment”.
Yes, fans will spend stupid money thinking they are part of the club, that is why it was strange Charle Green has spent so much time differentiating between club and company.
McMurdo is a liar, plain and simple
I’m no spring chicken, and I have never heard any of the victims of that sad day, referred to as Daleks, nor have I ever seen any Celtic minded web site refer to them in that way either
As Posmill pointed out it was a reference to wasps, and nothing to do with Sevco supporters
Yet again some idiot like McMurdo throws something out there, the lunatics latch onto it, and then use it as another example of the persecution they believe they are facing
They are not right in the head
Tic 6709 says:
September 7, 2012 at 01:17
14 0 Rate This
Maybe i’ve had a sheltered life,but I have never heard the term Daleks used in relation to that terrible day,for Mcmurdo to bring the tragedy into focus to score a point against Thomson is without doubt the most despicable act anyone could commit.That is the lowest of the low.By the way I am 62.
___________________________________________________________________________
I’ve never heard of the term either and I’m 53 yrs old. McMurdo has always been a headcase, his home used to be called ibrox and he had UJs everywhere whenever he was photographed inside it.
He was of course Le Petit Merde’s agent.
So now the zealots turn on AT ,The worrying thing is that after seeing the brainwashing of 2012 fc fans regards the (we have been punished enough myth) they may actually fall for this complete and utter nonsense .I have lived in Glasgow all my life and have been to many derbies ,I know a lot of ragers fans ,I have never heard of the word Daleks being connected to ragers let alone the victims of a tragedy .No lets get it straight ,his crime in their deluded minds is that he wrote the foreword to a book asking questions of how a football club was run .
These complete morons that are fueling the fires of this so called hatred towards 2012 fc had better have a real good think about what they are doing .
They are in danger of creating a monster and if that monster gets too big they may not be able to put it back in it’s cage .
I would not have believed that so many ordinary Rangers fans would have fallen for the punishment myth but I have yet to meet any (except a few who post on here ) who have not .I knew it was essential that the siege mentality was instilled by any new buyer to ensure a fan base but IMO this is now getting out of control and the peepil driving it could not care a jot if it leads to violence on the streets .
The MSM should hang their heads in shame but somehow I don’t think they will
Just to make something clear McMurdo’s blog is not that of the agent but his son.
The Invisible Line says:
September 7, 2012 at 02:00
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
_____________________________________________________________________
It is not just Thailand, it is a belief through all of Asia, the concept of “face” is what long ago Europeans might call honour. It certainly is not a penchant for duplicity.
Grant Russell of STV tweeting that TRFC are a new company so not liable for the oldco debts. However as the membership was transfered, then the club is the same club.
Good Morning.
As we wait for the certainty of the FTT we have yet another disgusting troublemaker trying to muddy the waters.
At 60 plus I have never heard that term used to refer to any Rangers supporter, far less any of the unfortunate souls who lost their lives on that dreadul day. It is a measure of the depths that these peole will sink to in order to create trouble. It is utterly horrible that he should seek to defile their memory in that way. They deserve better than to be associated with that filth.
Don’t give him the publicity.
On the same theme, as a youngster my parents would never let me go to these games, despite seeing Celtic every week. That game was my first “Old Firm” game and it was, believe it or not 2010 before I ever attended another.
Stay focused on the real issues of corruption.
Nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 7, 2012 at 08:01
It’s that Schroedingers Cat thing again !
Oldco Newco (when it suits)
OR
Oldco = Newco (when it suits)
I smell something fishy and it’s not Kit-e-Kat !!
Grant russell stv ye ye whatever!!
Oops – Looks like wordpress doesn’t like ‘not equals’ symbol.
I demand to know who this ‘no mark’ Bill McNurdo is!
What’s going on with the avatars??
Nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 7, 2012 at 08:01
2 0 Rate This
Grant Russell of STV tweeting that TRFC are a new company so not liable for the oldco debts. However as the membership was transfered, then the club is the same club.
————
Cheers NO&G, do you have the exact tweet for that? I checked the twitter discussion and he was getting it in the neck. But I couldn’t find the offending tweet on @STVGrant
It’s a bit surprising that Grant Russell would say that considering that even the much-maligned Jim Traynor now seems to have come down on the side of a complete newco club, judging from his Your Call programme at least.
The continuing confusion among sports writers is odd. I get the impression that some of them simply don’t know what to say because they do not understand how the SFA has worked this. I’m wondering if it’s because the SFA has muddied the waters by linking old football debts to newco? My sketchy understanding is that new Rangers got fast-tracked into the 3rd if they promised to pay off old Rangers football debts. So a continous link was, perhaps, artificially created via that piece of Heath-Robinson inventiveness.
Even Mr Green now seems convinced that the admins sold him the club history – since he couldn’t maintain it through the CVA route. How convenient. There is so much verbal trickery going on here that it is easy to lose the plot.
Captain Haddock says:
September 6, 2012 at 22:11
I took the plunge and emailed Private Eye? Felt like a real amateur though.
——
Aye, me too. Quite a difficult thing to summarise in a short email!
Perhaps if Hislop gets a few emails on the subject he’ll take an interest. I directed them here and to RTC for background info. 😉
Private Eye loves to get torn in where the MSM fears to tread, so fingers crossed …
I get it now. Green’s going to a flit with the share issue cash whilst the Bears are watching the final of the crossbar challenge.
I’m particularly looking forward to Gordon Smith explain how the Sevco share issue will allow fans to own a piece of the club after his “holding company” shtick when 1872 co went to the wall. Start rehearsing now Gordon.
I well remember the dreadfull day of the disaster, it was several hours before we knew that a family member was safe. There was no phone, and it was only when he arrived home that we knew he had not been involved. This apparent accusation of referring to victims as daleks is a total invention. I have never heard the reference used anywhere or at any time over the years since the terrible accident happened. This rabble rouser must be exposed as a mischief maker and forced to retract his accusation.
Update from St.Mirren fans buy-out consortium. Now, what are we buying..club or company 😉
7th September Update
We can confirm that we have now had a response from the Selling Consortium to the bid which was submitted on August 24th.
We have been asked to review two particular clauses within the offer and re-submit the bid.
We are in the process of completing this task and intend to re-submit our updated offer to the Selling Consortium today.
Thanks again for your continued support.
test?
The CVA was formally rejected on the 14th June.
22nd June Lord Hodge demands a report from D & D, and wants it within two week.
It was said the administrators would still be in house for 10 – 12 weeks before BDO take over.
12 weeks today have now passed since the CVA was rejected, someone is delaying this, and its not by accident.
I would imagine that the result of the FTT and BDO taking over from D & D will take place at the same time.
The same smell still surrounds this, and the fear is that this will all disappear.
Forget, Templeton signing, forget McCoist bully boy, lets get to the real issues here, why all the delays??
I well remember the Ibrox tragedy, hearing the first reports on tv, that numb feeling of hopelessness and who do I know that might be there? Meeting my mates in the Queen’s Arms in Edinburgh and realising someone, a Rangers fan who went to all their games, wasn’t there. Watching the confirmed dead figures rising on the pub tv, then the relief when that mate arrived, his face pale and tears in his eyes. I’ll never forget that. What’s more, no one could ever convince me that around Scotland that the same scene wasn’t happening in pubs frequented by Celtic fans. The Ibrox disaster didn’t just happen to Rangers fans, it happened to us all. Some of the those who sadly lost their lives will have had family and friends who supported Celtic, and other teams, who’s lives would have been affected by their loss. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone, not least a Celtic fan, crack a joke or make a disparaging remark about that terrible day. That a Rangers supporter should be the first to use that disaster (second actually when you think of the disaster memorial AT misunderstanding) to deflect from the Ibrox goings-on speaks volumes for the morals of those people. I have never heard any reference to the Ibrox dead as being ‘daleks’, nor can I work out why anyone would use that description. I can, however, imagine someone who’s life has been filled with hate misreading the word ‘wasps’ and thinking it was ‘watps’ and desperately using it as a weapon against anyone who they see as anti-Rangers. But daleks? How sick must someone be to see this as a reference to the dead? Unless they have used it themselves, of course!
To be honest, it takes a pretty sick individual, to turn a totally unrelated comment, into an insult to the the fans of your own team who died on that tragic day
Unfortunately, he is typical of a large section of Sevco supporters, who have no problem twisting and distorting facts, to attack those who do not agree with their perception of reality, and are not afraid to say so
And they wonder why they and their club are so despised
Not sure if this was mentioned before. Last Saturday on Radio Scotland at about 1.30pm Derek Ferguson quipped that the reason Maurice Johnstone signed for Rangers was “a million pounds in a Swiss bank account”. It may be a metaphorical million pounds but it may be true and could mark the beginning of David Murray’s tax dodging schemes.
just reading last night’s and this mornings posts and I would like to add my comments on this disgusting McMurdo blog.
I attended the Ibrox disaster game (Celtic End) and had pals in Copland Road end, I lost a good pal and two near neighbours. I have NEVER heard any deragatory remarks from decent Celtic fans nor heard the term “daleks” used. Just ignore these sad comments.
Allyjambo @ 09:31
In certain places a wasp is short for “White Anglo Saxon Prot****nts”
Perhaps in their deranged minds that is the association they have made
A long time ago a bar owner who did sterling work raising money for a certain charity once told me-“Remember it is actually easier to get £1.00 of 100 people than to get £100.00 of 1 person”
The upcoming IPO is based on that principle. Mr Charles is hoping that there are enough people out there will to part with their pounds.
As i keep saying if he pulls it off and puts the money into the footballing side of things to run a sustainable club, then fair play to him.
A few simple questions the Sevconians need to be asking themselves are
– While Mr Charles has done some of the things he said he would, how many of the other things reported have not happened. (e.g CHARLES GREEN last night said he has a list of 19 signing targets for Rangers – five of them playing at Euro 2012.) In other words would you buy a used car off this man.
– Is this the fault of the MSM or Green and Sally or both.
– If this share issue goes ahead before the end of the year how will the money be used given the registration ban is in place until 2014 and only free agents can be signed from 1 Sept 2013 to 2014. In other words what do you do with £20m burning a whole in your pocket for 8 or 9 months, keeping in mind the Duff & Duffer figures for running the club and that clubs like Hearts and Hibs operating annual spend including players wages was around £13m and £8m respectivley for the last full season.
-Realisticaly how many fans will stump up cash and how much?
A ready reckoner to help out in terms of reaching £20m with fans alone.
1000 = £20,000 per head
5000 = £4,000 per head
10,000 = £2,000 per head
For a more realistic figure take the current home game support at Ibrox as being circa 40,000 as a round figure
40,000 – £500 per head.
This is not unreasonable but one has to take into account that the fans have already shelled out for the season tickets this year and if promoted through merit or re-organisation next years books are going to increase.
While it was a different time wiki says that 10,000 Celtic fans provided £14m in the public share offering which helped rebuild Celtic Park, therefore £1,400 per head. It could be argued there are enough T’Rangers fans out there with that kind of dough.
However Celtic fans could see where the money was going and the club also benefitted from a massive increase in season tickets, which T’Rangers this season have maxed out on.
The Grant Russell tweets
@STVGrant: @EdgarBlamm @StMiley @hen1rik It is a new company. So they aren’t responsible for the debt of the old company.
@STVGrant: @StMiley @hen1rik My stance hasn’t changed at all. My opinion club would continue if SFA membership transferred. It was.
As the terrifying reality of any possible sanctions being placed on this *NEWCLUB start to sink in…………..
There are cleverly constructed arguments deliberately being peddled by our friends at Media House to distinguish and confuse between when a club is a *Club and a Company is a *Club and when a Company is not a *Club and when a Club is not a Company………………. see what I mean!
ok, perhaps some salient questions one of our intrepid journalists could ask in light of the recent announcement that RFC is to be floated on the Stock Market….
1. Are *The Rangers (Sevco) FC fans being asked to invest in a *Club or a Company?
2. Which ‘entity’ (< very important word right there – remember that word) is traded on the stock Market? *Club or Company?
3. What was the conclusion of the Plus Markets Investigation when RFC PLC traded last?
4. What will the Insolvency Service/ Companies House/HMRC (among a host of other exiting bodies) have to say in regard to this 'Phantom' Company trading on the Stock Market/AIM Listed?
5. The alleged "5 way agreement" contains nothing to suggest that CG has agreed to ANY punishment or sanction for his *NEWCLUB in regard to "sneaky payments". Indeed the Administrators latest report confirms as such.
6. Why does the SMSM continue to peddle this myth that stripping of titles is a punishment. IT IS NOT! It would be a CONSEQUENCE – I know you are reading this 😉
7. Is prize money/ sponsorship etc etc paid to *Club or Company?
………………….and so to the last question, that remains astonishingly obvious, yet unanswered
CG confirmed in his purchase agreement with the Administrators, that all rights/assets of the COMPANY & CLUB (ground/ trophies/ honours etc) were bought by his NEWCO Company
So Honours were purchased by a Company NOT the *Club – As we keep hearing THE COMPANY IS DEAD THE CLUB SURVIVED
*THE CLUB has no honours. These are OWNED by the Holding Company!
😉
tombrann says:
September 7, 2012 at 09:16
I well remember the dreadful day of the disaster, it was several hours before we knew that a family member was safe. There was no phone, and it was only when he arrived home
————————————
I too remember that dreadful day. We were gathered at a work colleague’s house in East Kilbride for a work related New Year party. Our host was an Aberdeen supporter, myself a Celtic supporter as well as a few others who supported others teams and some none at all had gathered. One of our managers who we expected at the party was a Rangers supporter who we knew was attending the match. He didn’t turn up at the agreed time and the party never got started as we were so worried about his safety. He eventually arrived later in the evening to the relief and delight of us all. He explained what misery and carnage he had seen and we then all went home feeling very sad.
It is clear that young McMurdo has no idea or sought to gain an understanding what it was like to be a football supporter or ordinary Glaswegian on that day. If he is aware and I’m sure his father has made him fully aware of the horrible events of that day, it is reprehensible for him to use these events to stir up hatred in order to attempt to raise his personal profile within the TRFC community. (Midcalderan, aged 64).
Regarding all the comments about the upcoming share issue, I think we are getting deflected by all the chatter about holding co’s etc. In the grand scheme of things does it really matter who or what the shares are in. What Green is doing is asking Rangers fans to cough up and put enough money into the bank to repay the original investors their money back with an agreed level of profit. After that it’s goodbye and good luck.
The fans will then be left with a club which has very little income stream left and no way of raising additional funds. Administration will soon follow (it’ll be interesting to see if the club is docked 25 points or just 10). Whether the club can survive as a going concern in the long run is doubtful.
Green has managed to get the fans to part with their cash for ST’s (and for that he has my grudging admiration, I never in a minute thought that he would get so many) and a fair few are turning up and paying at the gate but in this respect the fans can see what they are getting. OK the ST holders are taking a bit of a chance in that they might not see out the season but their tickets were honoured last season when they should have been voided so why should this season be any different. The turn up and pay fans have nothing to lose. The weather has been kind and the alternative is taking the kids to an adventure park or whatever and spending £30/£40 (I suppose this is an argument for dropping admission prices throughout the leagues but that’s for a different discussion). The real test will be a wet Tuesday night in October.
However buying shares in the club (or whatever) is a totally different ball game. There is no dividend paid (or likely to be paid). It is in essence an interest free loan with very little chance of the loan being repaid. They might raise around £2m from those fans with enough sentimental attachment but I cannot see a huge rush to buy.
So far Green has had a particularly easy time of it, he has played his hand well, and he has rallied the troops with ease. However a share issue (as Murray found out) will not be the cakewalk he might think it will be. Questions will be asked about the £30m he promised, names of the other investors will need to be provided, but most importantly he will be asking fans to dip into their pockets at a crucial time of the year. With Xmas coming up pressure will be on to provide money for other purposes. Will an investment in RFC be seen as the perfect Christmas gift or will it be a financial commitment too far.
Green might now find that he has overplayed his hand.
“exiting” > external!
Enfakid
I can assure you that I am not a Celtic supporter or have any sympathies towards them whatsover. As a football supporter for 50 years and a season ticket holder for 30 years of another
SPL Club, I can still remember too many games, where my team played very well against Celtic
only to be beaten by the best club side in Scotland that I have ever witnessed. (Celtic 1967 -1975)
The point I was trying to make is not the loyalty shown by Rangers Tribute Act supporters during
this fiasco, but merely that if your supporters do not waken up shortly, you will be left with no club to support
Partick dad says:
September 7, 2012 at 09:38
Not sure if this was mentioned before. Last Saturday on Radio Scotland at about 1.30pm Derek Ferguson quipped that the reason Maurice Johnstone signed for Rangers was “a million pounds in a Swiss bank account”. It may be a metaphorical million pounds but it may be true and could mark the beginning of David Murray’s tax dodging schemes
——————————————
Sorry but that story is so far off the mark. Some time ago I posted on RTC the true version of events. I managed to see copies of faxes from Nantes (they were in French and had to be translated) and essentially Johnston tried to do the deal himself without McMurdo’s input. The sticking point was who paid the tax on the deal, Celtic refused and McMurdo then offered him to Murray.
SSN reporting that Sevco have signed Australian striker Francesco Stella. He’s been on trial with them and, believe it or not (another new rule), they’ve got round the embargo because they applied for his registration before the embargo kicked in!
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
My understanding is that Stella signed before the window closed.
The issue is in relation to being non EU and therefore, in terms of UK employment law as opposed to footballing registration rules, he needs the International Work Permit.
I am positive that with a little googling you will find plenty examples of players signing then having to wait until international clearance is given.
Clutching at straws methinks but willing to be proved wrong.
enfakid says:
September 7, 2012 at 07:31
The Invisible Line says:
September 7, 2012 at 02:00
In Thailand there is a sayign about no one wants to lose face – it explains much about the Thais penchant for duplicity.
_____________________________________________________________________
It is not just Thailand, it is a belief through all of Asia, the concept of “face” is what long ago Europeans might call honour. It certainly is not a penchant for duplicity.
************
Sorry Enfakid – you are talkign to a resident of Thailand here – you may enjoy trying to correct everyone and everybody, but having been in Thailand for a while, I can tell you that this has the most extreme face saving concept of anywhere – and duplicity – well even the Thais tell you they are two faced 🙂
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
0 0 Rate This
SSN reporting that Sevco have signed Australian striker Francesco Stella. He’s been on trial with them and, believe it or not (another new rule), they’ve got round the embargo because they applied for his registration before the embargo kicked in!
==========
I will spend most of the day trying to figure that one out !
If they had decided that the trial proved him to be not good enough, would this registration be one of the clubs a player is allowed in any one season or ……….. no, I will go and think about how anyone can make sense of this.
I was there that day – never understood why the media went with the story that rangers fans were leaving, going down stairway 13, and then when the equaliser was scored the fans tried to get back up the stairs and this caused the terrible crush which took the lives of older men, young men and young lads.
I was there that day. I stood at the rangers end mid way down from the top of the terracing. Celtic scored to make it 1-0 with a few minutes left. We, like many others decided to leave as it appeared we were going to lose (again). By the time we reached the top of the terracing, near stairway 13, we stopped. Rangers had a free kick, the ball went to greig who crossed into the middle. Stein, who had spent the afternoon in McNeill’s back pocket, inexplicably found space and scored the equaliser. How we cheered and celebrated. The final whistle blew seconds after the restart and we headed home to celebrate our ‘victory’.
We went down stairway 13. I had noticed two young lads behind me carrying on with one being carried on his mates shoulders. I started to panic as the crush was getting worse than usual. I got to the bottom with my feet bairly touching the stairs. The young lads fell as the crush got worse and more people fell as the crowds coming off the terracing, unaware of what was happening, pushed on. I had reached the bottom of the stairs by this time. I thank god every day that I was a few seconds in advance of the tragedy.
So it didn’t happen the way the press reported it at the time. The crush started well after the goal was scored and after the final whistle – seems their inaccuracy is not just about what they are reporting today – it goes way, way back.
I stopped supporting that club when I witnessed the events of the 1981? cup final, when I stood on the terracing at the rangers end and watched with horror as the ‘sons of william’ launched attacks on the Celtic supporters (if you think it was bad watching it on tv then that was nothing compared to what was to happen outside the ground.
But no one should ever use the disaster to insult anyone and I believe the ‘attack’ on Alex Thomson to be fabricated. What is therefore absolutely criminal is so called sons of William using the lost lives of ordinary men and boys, as a tactic to discredit their opposition.
This might need a sit down with a cup of tea thing – interrelated strands – just a theory
It’s about the “History” bit regarding CG / D+P possibly playing with legal bonfires to come.
Well we know in June D+P “sold” the “business and assets” to CG that morphed in July/ August to include “business assets and history” and we know the official TRFC website now includes the history as if nowt had happened. So;
In March – we knew LH “Directions” on the TU Contract, meant that it was subject to Scots Law interpretation, TU possibly messed up on English interpretation, but nevertheless, RFC would be obliged to repay TU – if – RFC did not go to into liquidation and the TU legacy contract stood. If RFC were, to be, liquated, the TU Contract would be an irrelevance – subject to little complexities of illegal contracts / naughty things / guarantees etc. Nevertheless with upcoming liquidation, D+P felt confident to sell “the business and assets” to CG in June and objected to the TU historical debt. But that`s not the main point.
The fact is that the first year of the TU contract was executed. That is the first of the initial 3 year contract. Legally things are not settled presently – but if TRFC persist with the history rights thing they may have inadvertently changed the legal landscape and possibly the Administration`s basis. TU might now be able to claim RFC[IA] historical second place last year in the SPL could not have been achieved without the benefit of the first year of the TU contract – as example. Either parts of a company are to be liquidated or they are not – just like you can’t be partly pregnant. If a part of RFC is not to be liquidated i.e. “sold” to CG as the business and assets – moving forward with a fresh start into the future – then in theory TU have only non-secured creditor status on oldco RFC. However, if TRFC, choose to include the oldco history [i.e. not liquidated] – TU could in theory claim then that the contract should stand and they will have to execute the remainder of that legacy contract moving forward in future too, or breach and risk liability in damages – as that intrinsic part of the old company – the history – has not been put into the liquidation pot – and still exists according to TRFC – including TU legacy contracts pre the sale to CG. That could be legally true for other historical contracts. Indeed the whole debt in a legal sense. Could there be new light for the creditors?
That`s what worried BM – legacy contracts – Indeed as a further twist, Remember the halcyon days of Bill Miller and the Incubator that piled radiation on the oldco toxic debt [incl TU] to clean it up after which then was re-joined with the newco to live happily ever after. But BM did need the oldco history cleared. I`ll try not to be distracted by the mixed group of workmates I saw the worst for wear discussing how you put a football club into a radioactive incubator and the wickedly funny Glasgow humour from both sides that followed [you had to be there]
But there are some interesting possibilities. After 3-5 years of liquidation proceedings whatever’s left monetarily normally goes to the creditors and I presume the company is then dissolved / struck-off and ceases to be. But even if what is left is financially shorn, there`ll still be papers, records, history, and former shareholders and members company share certificates in existence. What if the principle former shareholders / members had an interest in purchasing the old certificates and history and persuaded BDO there was added value in not completely striking off the original company and its history. Surely they`d want to save that from a dissolution abyss?
Surely BDO would be obliged to put the former Companies Registration, Records and certificates up for sale on the open market if there was still a residual creditor value to some? I`ll wager there are a number of wealthy RFC people that would compete to pay a pretty penny to get title – and history – to the old company – to knock the door of CG and his investors [or whoever’s in place then] and demand a shareholding in future trading including a seat on the Board at least. An Interesting possible little conundrum for any potential share issue.
In summary, is this history element contributing to the on-going wait for LHs assessment? Has the Administration legal landscape changed if they now wish to trade on with the oldco legacy history?
iki says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:28
Stella was a free agent having left Siena, therefore presumably his registration was up for grabs.
If T’Rangers bagged that before the end of the transfer window then they have 14 days to submit the necessary papers to the SFL.
The internatrional work permit is another issue all together.
If that fails to materialise then presumably the deal is off and the registration and player contract papers being submitted to the SFL with have a clause to that effect.
WOTTPI says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:26
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:08
My understanding is that Stella signed before the window closed.
The issue is in relation to being non EU and therefore, in terms of UK employment law as opposed to footballing registration rules, he needs the International Work Permit.
I am positive that with a little googling you will find plenty examples of players signing then having to wait until international clearance is given.
Clutching at straws methinks but willing to be proved wrong.
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I’m sure this will be the ‘reasoning’ behind it but it will refer to the transfer window closing which is maybe fair enough. Rangers, however, have a registration embargo, that started, I believe, at one minute passed midnight on 1st September. A registration embargo is not the same as the closing of the transfer window, which is not a penalty, just a plain old rule. Rangers knew that they had this registration embargo and that anyone they wanted to sign would have to be registered before it kicked in. With this in mind they should only have been interested in players with no need for visas, or, started the registration process early (perhaps before they were sure they really wanted the player), or, accepted that if the visa didn’t come through in time they’d wasted their, and the player’s, time. This might have made things a bit difficult for Sevco, but then isn’t that what it was meant to do?
With this in mind, why did Green go ahead with signing Stella? Was this what the six hour time wasting meeting was about the night before the transfer deadline ended, and the embargo kicked in? Yet another deadline missed!
When is a registration embargo not a registration embargo? Perhaps the answer is; when anyone representing what used to be Rangers is about to launch a share issue to the people who think they still follow Rangers!
enfakid says:
September 7, 2012 at 07:31
‘.just to make something clear McMurdo’s blog is not that of the agent but his son.’
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Very glad to hear it. I hope father at least metaphorically kicks son’s ar.e good and hard.
Any footbal supporter who does not have the full respect for the unfortunate victims of any football tragedy whether it be Ibrox, Hillsborough, Bradford. Hysel, etc does not belong to the human race.
While many football supporters may not have any assocation with the clubs that have been involved in these tragedies, the least that they should do is to respect the dead, as you are all part of the football family.