LNS – A Summary

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LNS – A Summary

 

cropped-sfmSquare.pngLNS is currently back in the headlines. It might therefore be a good time to try to set out a timeline describing correspondence we had with the representatives of the authorities over discrepancies and anomalies that appeared to have arisen. None of this is necessarily predicated upon the recent findings of the CoS in the Big Tax Case, but stands on its own.

Back in February 2014 The Scottish Football Monitor wrote to Harper MacLeod, the law firm that the SPL had engaged to gather evidence for the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Commission investigating the full and proper registration of players paid by Rangers Football Club under Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) arrangements.

The initial set-up of the LNS Commission on 5th March 2012 by the SPL (View File) charged LNS with a look at EBTs from 1st July 1998 (when the SPL came into being).

In practice though, the Commission only looked at EBTs from 23 November 2000 onwards.

This change of date was based on the earliest side letter supplied by Duff and Phelps, although Harper MacLeod had requested ALL documentation from 1998 to March 2012 relating to ALL EBTs.

This prompted a series of letters to Harper MacLeod from The Scottish Football Monitor, although Harper MacLeod’s replies failed to address the issues raised.

The passage of time blurs memories but this archive is designed to remind readers of those blogs and correspondence, and the key points contained in them.

It also highlights the apparent inability or unwillingness on the part of the SPL and SFA to engage with us in any meaningful way.

NB: The SFA were informed of our correspondence by Harper MacLeod in October 2014.

It is extremely difficult to be concise in this situation. There are various strands of argument and details seemingly small, but vitally important – however the following is an attempt to make the material accessible and provides links to the relevant files in chronological order (links are in green).

 

  • Item 1: The first SFM letter of 19th February 2014 to Harper MacLeod
  • Item 2The Annexes containing the documents apparently not supplied to Harper Macleod in the spring of 2012 along with other pertinent information about the testimony given to LNS during the Commission.
  • Item 3The SFM response of 29 March 2014 to Harper MacLeod’s reply to the first letter.
  • Item 3.1: An SFM analysis of Harper MacLeod’s initial reply attached to response at 3.
  • Item 4: An SFM blog of 5th September pointing out how the documents not supplied had a direct impact on the advice given to the SPL Board to accept The Decision of The LNS Commission.
  • Item 5: The last letter of 4th October 2014 to Harper MacLeod answering points raised by them (see next) and thanking them for passing our correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer who has so far deigned not to reply.
  • Item 5.1Harper MacLeod’s actual response to SFM 5th September letter.
  • Item 6: An SFM Blog (Inc. a transcript of an interview between Alex Thomson and Stewart Regan).
  • Item 6.1: Truncated version of above blog.
  • Item 7: A clearer extract of key document from Item 2 Annexes

 

Having no locus to demand answers from the SPL or the SFA, all we can do is provide information – information that we believe presents a prima facie case that LNS was deeply flawed even before the latest developments in the Tax Case came to light. The challenge for us is this: what can we do about it?

It is clear from the meagre response we have received that the authorities are unwilling to engage with us, so it is fair to assume that further correspondence will be met with the same lack of response.

Are we merely a bunch of obsessed nut-jobs with our own take on the Flat Earth conspiracy? If that is the case, surely a few words of explanation to dispel our doubts would have had traction with the rest of the football public. Indeed the lack of any reply undoubtedly serves as confirmation of our belief that something may be seriously wrong.

The questions have been posed. The SFA appears to think that not answering them is a wise course of action. Given that anecdotal evidence presents a compelling case that the general football public are widely in agreement with us, are there any journalists out there who will take the time to look at what we have observed and what we seek clarification on?

There are undoubtedly inferences to be drawn from the evidence we have, and from the silence of the authorities.

The statement by Celtic on Friday 13th November is certainly a start in the process we wish to begin, but it only mentions the elephant in the room. It gives no clue about how it could be transported to another place.

In the first instance we at SFM seek only explanations, and despite the inferences mentioned earlier, we are still eager to be satisfied that rules were followed and justice done.

Is there really  nobody in the MSM who has the courage to seek the answers we seek? I suspect not. What we do in the absence of that courage is important. We are at a crossroads. Either we give up on the game altogether and spend our Saturdays and Sundays doing other things – or we find a way to get these questions out of blog pages and into the mainstream.

We need an alliance of fans of all clubs to do that, and we will be looking to build that alliance. I would urge fans of all clubs to give this material to fan sites of their own clubs.

These are not just words. There can be no movement on this issue unless our reach is extended. SFM alone does not have the clout required to bring the clubs to the table or the MSM to fair and balanced reporting. We need that alliance of fans desperately. We don’t seek leadership of that alliance – but we are happy to provide it if required.

This is not a campaign to have Rangers punished. I understand that Rangers fans (since their club is in the middle of this mess) are reluctant to see us as anything other than a bunch of Rangers haters.

That is unequivocally not the case from the perspective of the moderators of this blog. SFM is committed to justice, and to the integrity of the sport we all love.

Justice is ON THE SIDE of Rangers and their fans – it does not conspire against them. A growing number of Rangers fans are coming round to our way of thinking and our tone must reflect that. This is not a Celtic or  Hearts or Aberdeen or anybody else v Rangers issue. This is a fans v corrupt authorities issue.

We all deserve answers, and hopefully our alliance will compel each individual club to act in the interests of the fans .

 

 

 

 

 

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,349 Comments so far

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:38 pm - Dec 15, 2015


From JJ, reworked by me.

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/rsvp/

Dave King on hearing that HMRC won the appeal at the Court of Session.

“It is extraordinary that representatives of other Scottish clubs – who admit the damage done to Scottish football by Rangers’ removal from the Premier League – should even wish to re-engage with this issue. It is time those individuals, who represent other clubs, recognize their legal and fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and shareholders rather than submit to the uninformed ramblings of a few outspoken fans to whom attacking Rangers is more important than the well being of their own clubs.This is a misguided attempt (that will ultimately fail) to rewrite history and defeat Rangers off the park when their teams could not do so on the park at the time. The history of many other clubs would have to be rewritten if this illogical argument was to be consistently applied.”

Then

Dave King recently trying to ingratiate himself to selected Chairmen of other Scottish football clubs (as posted by Phil Mac).

‘We discussed the importance of Rangers to Scottish football, repairing and improving the relationship with our fellow clubs. The last few years have brought challenges not only to Rangers but to Scottish football as a whole. I will primarily rely upon Stewart (Robertson) to build the ongoing relationship however I would be grateful if during the course of 2016 I could have the opportunity to meet as many clubs as possible.’

==================================

Make up your mind there Dave, which is it.

Or was the former aimed at your new club’s support, to keep them onside to make you the knight on a white charger galloping to Rangers’ defence and the latter to everyone else who you realise you really need to help Rangers III come into existence.

That’s a tad duplicitous.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:50 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Well I never.
 Here is a tale by Hugh McDonald from the Herald on my boyhood hero. Willie Hunter
Id been on line berating the Well manangement and came across this: a gem Eintracht  Ian St John Cruyff enjoy:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14141141.Hugh_MacDonald_takes_a_trip_down_memory_lane_with_Motherwell_legend_Willie_Hunter/

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on12:12 am - Dec 16, 2015


Extract from above article:

“St John and Hunter were 17 and were the rising stars of Scottish football yet their passion could not be sated by professional football. “I loved the Sunday games,” says Hunter. “But it came to an end. The ball went over a fence one day and I went to retrieve it and Bobby Ancell was standing there. Someone had told on us. And that was that.”The Memory Man smiles and sips his coffee. The past has suddenly warmed and softened a traditionally brutal Edinburgh winter’s day.”

You know I mind playing with Kenny Dalgleish at Meryllee playing fields near his house as we all did at weekends and the self same thing happened wasn’t Jock but someone from the club.
Never played or was laced by him again. (at the time we never connected him with Celtic in any way I thought he was with Aberdeen boys).
 I think secretly we were glad.
But you know. Memories.

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John ClarkPosted on12:39 am - Dec 16, 2015


ianagain 16th December 2015 at 12:12 am
‘..But you know. Memories.’
________
Yep, we know, ianagain!
Nothing to beat memories-except sharp-as- tack and  up-to-the-minute interest and awareness of what’s going down currently!02

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jimboPosted on12:51 am - Dec 16, 2015


JC, the sharp as tack understanding of today is tomorrow’s history.  I just hope that the next generations don’t have to keep as close an eye on goings on as your good self and others have had to do. At least it will always be here on the blogosphere (I hope!) unlike the SMSM.

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yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on1:14 am - Dec 16, 2015


If anything the continuing engagement of dialogue with anyone attached to the dead club is flushing out the weaker roots in Scottish Football ,Milne being the latest to be added to this list,if there is going to be a deep cleanse then it needs to go as deep as possible,a scorched earth approach ,with Kings weekly shift of desperate pleas from one approach to a totally opposite the following week is a real concern about the mans state of mind,if he had a game plan which he drip fed to the world then maybe he might have a chance of reeling in some,like Milne!!,but he has these opposites that totally confuse even anyone not remotely interested but are now butting in and saying,did he just say what I think he said,how embarrassing for Lee Wallace that the comments in the press today are attributed to him but prob ghost written,respect for other clubs,back in October in an interview that one of the red tops unashamedly published had one of his team mates stating that they feel that there will be games where the will prob hit double figures,yes Lee,it was said,respect,I have more respect for Santa.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on7:46 am - Dec 16, 2015


Had a wee chuckle listening to the radio this morning.

It has been revealed that Sepp Blatter has written to every association within FIFA to protest his innocence.

Sounds very familiar. Has Sepp recruited Level5?! Or maybe Regan has got on the blower to his good mate Sepp and said let us handle it from here!!

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wottpiPosted on8:14 am - Dec 16, 2015


Falkirk’s Peter Houston adds to the reconstruction ‘debate’.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/falkirk/there-will-be-reconstruction-if-falkirk-win-title-1-3976819

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Cygnus X2

Cygnus X2Posted on8:48 am - Dec 16, 2015


I suspect Peter Houston is correct.

I’d actually much prefer a larger top league, but it would be nice to get there without the rulebook being discarded once again.

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Jungle JimPosted on9:04 am - Dec 16, 2015


Rangers are in a relatively strong position in the title race so why the sudden panic about getting them into the top league?  Is it because they are unlikely to see out the season without an insolvency event?  And let’s not forget that Doncaster was at pains to tell us all they are the same club so they must be looking at a 25 point deduction.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on9:16 am - Dec 16, 2015


Lets just abandon that big waste of space with 23 men running about on it. We should fill it with guitars and amps, and big flashy lights and smoke machine thingies. Then we could play against a rock band every fortnight under the flood-lights. Get a travelling fun-fair and circus acts in for pre-season friendlies. 
     In no time at all, we will have the best fitba clubs in the world. 
   I cant wait to see Franz Ferdinand take on Subo in the CL final after she humped the Bavarian lederhosen knee-slappers in the semis…..An all Scottish final……What’s not to like?……..Errrrr, Wadya mean that would be against the rules?

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bordersdonPosted on9:21 am - Dec 16, 2015


Only one thing to say to our Chairman: “awa an bile yer heid min!” 08 08080808

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on9:40 am - Dec 16, 2015


”We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.

Actually we, the fans, don’t.

We want a fair competition fairly governed.  Which Clubs end up in the top league will be determined on the field of play.

Whether that’s Hibs, Falkirk or the [] offspring of a Club that died is unimportant.

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redetinPosted on9:48 am - Dec 16, 2015


Re-reading Martin Hannan’s article in The National, with questions for Ashley and King.
I find it strange he wants to ask DK “Can you state for the record what exactly were your convictions for tax avoidance and for contempt of court in South Africa, as there has been considerable obfuscation about these matters.
Firstly, does Martin expect DK to cease the obfuscation to answer him? More important though, a journalist should be looking to original sources for information. It is not too difficult to search Gauteng, judgement and DCK?
Why put yourself through this, Martin. SARS provided a press release that makes it quite clear.
http://www.sars.gov.za/Media/MediaReleases/Pages/29-August-2013—Joint-Media-Statement-%E2%80%93-Settlement-between-the-State-and-Mr-DC-King.aspx
Better, perhaps, to ask Mr King for full disclosure of his entire “rap sheet”.

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tayred

tayredPosted on9:59 am - Dec 16, 2015


Sent to AFC this morning….
Dear Mr Milne,

I started my Aberdeen supporting career way back in the late 70’s. My first big memory is attending the match via FC Sion at the beginning of our amazing ECWC campaign of 82-83. I’ve been a season ticket holder for many of the years since, but unfortunately as work dragged me way from Aberdeen my attendance at Pittodrie has reduced somewhat. However, I have attended many a game where I wished I hadn’t, those embarrassing defeats at home to Livingston will forever burn in my memory. That said I have never been as embarrassed I was was reading your recent comments with regards to Scottish football and TRFC. 

Can I firstly point out that we already have the top teams in the top league of the SPFL. Those are the teams that are there ON MERIT. That is the point of a league system, or perhaps Mr Milne would prefer we just hand picked the teams we wanted and removed relegation and promotion?

But, my main point is this. I was one of those supporters who was defrauded. I was one of those supporters that turned up at least every second week, to pay over my hard earned cash to watch a football match. A sporting occasion, where to teams match up to fight out for points in a league competition, or in one-off cup matches. The important phrase is “Sporting”. Do you think I would have invested one penny if I had know that there was one team in Scotland who were running roughshod over the rules and regulations, who were telling lies to the authorities, who were screwing the national government by withholding taxes, who were running up massive amounts of debt, who were so deeply interwoven with the authorities that those self same authorities were choosing to ignore irregularities……. etc etc etc etc etc???

Do you really believe that as supporters we should just shut up and continue to pay into this sham? I want the cheating to be acknowledged, I want the titles gained by that club to be declared void (not re-assigned, just declared void). In fact I would really like to have every pound I invested in watching the game over that period returned to me. I repeat, I was defrauded – you sold me tickets on the basis that I was attending a fair sporting competition. It very clearly was not. I must hold you partly responsible for that, and I believe your comments yesterday were an insult to every supporter who invested time and money in those competitions.

So Mr Milne. How dare you ask me to forget and move on. I will not forget that I was cheated, I know thousands of others from every club in Scotland (bar 1) will not forget that they were cheated. Why the hell should I just move on, what contrition has there been from RFC/TRFC?? absolutely none! In fact they continue to behave as if they have been harshly treated! There has been no punishment, bar from a single £250,000 fine which I believe has yet to be paid. Instead you and every other chairman (with one or two notable exceptions, the Late Mr Turnbull being a shining light amongst a field full of duds) have done all you can to accommodate this new club – or is it company, or holding company or…..?? Its a mess, and you can count yourself partially responsible. If only you had all insisted that the SFA apply the rules without fear or favour. Like they did with Spartans for missing out a single signature perhaps, or Elgin for unsporting conduct.  One rule for everyone except for RFC.

You have to decide on your next move Stewart. You had better choose carefully. What is a football club without its fans? You are very close to losing me, and I know thousands of Scottish football fans feel the same way. Carry on this ridiculous subservient attitude to the team from Govan and I will never step foot inside Pittodrie again. This relentless pursuit of the dodgy blue pound was almost the ruination of Scottish football, be careful or that “armageddon” we were promised in 2012 by Doncaster and his shoddy crew may yet arise – only it may be because the attendances will plummet as supporters such as myself will refuse to be taken for fools once again.

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year,
Stand Free

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on10:06 am - Dec 16, 2015


It is clear from the Houston and Milne contributions, within a few hours of each other, that a full on, Level 5, PR campaign has been launched to soften us all up for league reconstruction next season. With so many willing assistants strategically placed in our laughable Sports Media, Level 5 will have no trouble at all getting the message out there. Each and every one of their lackeys is phoning their way through their contact list right now, desperately hunting down anyone connected with the game who is willing to put their name to some helpful quotes. Clever PR, of course, to launch the campaign with a couple of pieces which aren’t by the more obvious cheerleaders. But then Level5 are real professionals.
As always, the question is why, and why now? Well, it’s not “for the good of the game”, that’s for sure. I know that because of the number of times I am told that it is for the good of the game in just a couple of PR puff pieces. You do not reorganise the leagues half way through the season unless there is a dire emergency. Normally, you would have a plan in place at the start of the season, so that everyone knows what they’re playing for. Anything else is a panic measure.
And let’s not forget who is handling SPFL PR these days, on behalf of the league sponsor, Ladbrokes. Which conveniently saves a lot of duplication of effort and mixed messages at a time of emergency- the SPFL and TRFC will speak as one!
So clearly, something has induced a state of panic in the SPFL. That something seems to go back to Dave King’s “brief encounter” with Doncaster the day before the AGM. The only scenario I can think of which would necessitate the current PR offensive is that King sounded out Doncaster over an imminent insolvency event at Ibrox.
Although well placed in the Championship table, TRFC are not well placed enough to be guaranteed promotion with a points deduction. This PR campaign has definitely not been launched to ensure that Falkirk and Hibs get to their “rightful place” next season, or to spare Dundee Utd the indignity of demotion. This can only be about ensuring that TRFC get into the top flight next season even if subject to an insolvency event.
Brace yourselves for more puff pieces as the big guns like Pat Nevin, Derek Johnstone and Barry Ferguson are wheeled on to reinforce the message. The only difficulty Level5 will have is writing the same message in a variety of ways, so that it sounds like different people are saying it.
Sadly, I’m smelling a done deal here. I await with great interest the responses (if any) from Celtic Park and Tynecastle.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on10:08 am - Dec 16, 2015


Excellent Tayred………Just bloody excellent !04

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DeldonPosted on10:15 am - Dec 16, 2015


@tayred 16th December 2015 at 9:59 am 040404

I’m with you tayred. I’ll be sending a similar e mail too.

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on10:24 am - Dec 16, 2015


James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 10 mins10 minutes ago
Charles Green costs appeal provisionally set for 29 January 2016

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on10:26 am - Dec 16, 2015


Interesting

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 15 mins15 minutes ago
Court told Crown has served a new indictment on Charles Green since last hearing.

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Jungle JimPosted on10:31 am - Dec 16, 2015


If they do go into administration and it’s a proper administration, you know the type where players get laid off, there is no guarantee whatsoever that they will gain promotion even to an extended premiership.  What then? Extend it by as much as is necessary till Rangers qualify?
We may be barking up the wrong tree here but if it comes to pass with no objection raised by my club I will give up altogether.

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wottpiPosted on10:40 am - Dec 16, 2015


I may be wrong but is it not the case that nearly all football leagues around the world (maybe with the exception of the MSL?) run on the basis of being allowed to progress through divisions by sporting merit.

Even the Champions and Europa League, with it convoluted bias to the bigger teams through the qualification and seeding process, allows for a relative minnow to get to the final if they happen to have a good run one season.

When you have talk of wanting all your big teams in the top league then you are bordering on a Franchise system.

Franchise systems only work if there is a degree of parity. The manner in which the NFL is run is perhaps best practice given the cyclical chance of your team having a good season and potentially making the Superbowl.

The worst example is perhaps the current Formula 1 model over recent years where two or three teams, with the most money, dominate and like managing the Glasgow two of old any half decent monkey in the driving seat can become the champion.

Like many I think a bigger top league has a number of pluses. The whole point is that it needs to be thought out in a structured and dare I say open and transparent manner. Timescales need to be set, plans drawn up both for the top league and how that effects the lower leagues. Solid, easily understood and transmittable aims and objectives need to be set.

The main aim of any expansion, IMHO,  should not be money but be to improve the product of sporting competition. A ‘build it and they will come type approach’. Just having a system where one or two clubs, based on the number of fans you can get into a stadium,  can only ever achieve success is just ludicrous.

Any change has to be structured around trying to develop our own talented players that provide domestic fans with entertaining and skillful football. These players should then be of the quality and playing a style of modern football that can make a decent fist of it in European competition, make the best of the best attractive to major world club teams and assist in feeding into the National Team.

If the priority is trying to get a share of the variable currency that is the blue pound then that way lies madness.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on10:43 am - Dec 16, 2015


Jungle Jim 16th December 2015 at 10:31 am #If they do go into administration and it’s a proper administration, you know the type where players get laid off, there is no guarantee whatsoever that they will gain promotion even to an extended premiership.
======================
I suspect that what is planned is some sort of “pre-pack” administration, where the outcome is pre-determined by those controlling the process. That is surely behind the urgency to pay off Ashley’s loan. The whole thing can’t work with Ashley as the largest creditor, so he needs to be out of the picture as far as possible.
I could be totally wrong, of course. And Ashley might try to block any move through the courts. I can’t see him standing idly by while King wipes out his shareholding. This could get very messy indeed- not that it isn’t messy already.

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redetinPosted on10:54 am - Dec 16, 2015


We wait in vain for one of our esteemed scribblers to update us on the the whereabouts of the £5M that, RIFC, a company based at Ibrox borrowed from Sports Direct.
Surely, given the surprise announcement of 27th November that the loan would be repaid, a daily call to their press office would be in order. Or even a follow up to the efforts to raise the other £500k, announced during the court case.

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Jungle JimPosted on10:56 am - Dec 16, 2015


If Ashley suspected a pre-pack admin I wonder if he is in a position to go for a winding up order.  That would surely put any thoughts of a pre-pack to an end.  Although after last weeks court case I do wonder if we have slightly over estimated the acumen of Ashley and his team.

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easyJamboPosted on10:57 am - Dec 16, 2015


I was at the Court of Session this morning along with John Clarke, James Doleman and A.N. Other in the public benches.

It was a bit of a non event. The motion being heard was that Charles Green’s appeal against Lord Doherty’s decision on legal fees should go to a full hearing.  That was accepted with both parties agreeing to make their submissions by 13th January and that the hearing would be provisionally set for 29th January, with the possibility of an interim hearing on 15th January if either party has any issues.

The only potentially significant thing to come out of today is that a new indictment has been served on Charles Green. It is not clear if the new indictment refers to new, amended or deleted changes, or whether the others have also been served with new indictments.  I guess that will have to wait until the preliminary hearings resume on 5th January to find out.  James Doleman is seeking to obtain a copy of the updated indictment, so keep an eye on his twitter feed for any updates.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on11:01 am - Dec 16, 2015


Let’s think about what a Pre-Pack Administration is and whether it might be possible for Sevco.

https://www.wilsonfield.co.uk/pre-pack-administration

A Pre Pack Administration is a procedure available to some insolvent companies if it’s deemed to be in the best interest of creditors.

Oops, problem #1.  Shafting creditors is rarely in their best interests.

It involves the pre-arranged sale of all or some of the assets from the insolvent company into a new company, often referred to as a ‘newco’. This newco can have the same directors as the original insolvent company (often referred to as an ‘oldco’), or it can be a completely separate party which has an interest in purchasing the assets.

Oops, problem #2.  The physical assets are subject to ongoing criminal cases.  

Playing assets may choose not to be TUPEd over to Newco and walk away from their contracts.

Intangible assets are a bit tied with a pi$$ed of billionaire.

The assets however, must be bought at market value as determined by an independent professional valuer, in order to achieve maximum realisations for creditors.

Problem #3.  Ongoing criminal cases are as a result of ignoring this last time.  What really is market value and could Newco genuinely afford it?

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:18 am - Dec 16, 2015


How does this sound for a plan. 
   League restructuring to be announced to come into effect next season. There will be no demotion from the premier, but teams from the Championship will be promoted. 
   TRFC to wriggle through the season and play-offs into the Premier. Administration during the closed season, and start with a 15 point deduction with no threat of demotion.
   Where there is a will……… 

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on11:23 am - Dec 16, 2015


zerotolerance1903 16th December 2015 at 11:01 am
I take all that on board, but if a pre-pack is off the table, what’s the plan?
The big obstacle to a pre-pack is the uncertainty around the properties due to the criminal cases. That won’t be resolved for at least a year. But maybe that could be used to reduce the property values, making the process cheaper if someone is prepared to gamble on the outcome?
If Ashley is payed off, the only big creditors will be the 3 bears and whoever puts up the £5m. They are all part of any plan, I assume.
As regards the players, aren’t many of them loan players or on very short contracts anyway? Mind you, Joe Hart’s successor for England must be worth a good few million1414 And don’t they have the Scottish Iniesta on their books too?
I have to agree, though, it’s hard to see how it could be made to work- but surely, there must be a plan?

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AOBPosted on11:26 am - Dec 16, 2015


Fo

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goosygoosyPosted on11:27 am - Dec 16, 2015


“We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.
,,,,,,
no ifs and buts
no qualifications
nothing about merit 
nothing about a level playing field
nothing about living beyond their means
nothing about integrity
 
Just
“top clubs have to be in the Premiership”
End of 
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This is the kind of thinking that let the size of RFC plc determine  whether rule breaking just short of match fixing should be punished by a fine
And then levied the fine on TRFC Ltd just because it bought the assets of RFC plc 
No wonder TRFC Ltd didn`t pay the fine
It didn`t commit the RFC plc  offence
Nor for that matter did it win any RFC plc honours
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If Mr Milne ran his other businesses like this 
He would have gone bust years ago

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bordersdonPosted on11:37 am - Dec 16, 2015


tayred 16th December 2015 at 9:59 am #  
Put a little more eloquently than my statement.
I’m sure the message you express will be shared by many, many Dons fans everywhere who supported our team through the cheating times. Chances of a reply from SM? Very slim I suspect but if he were to received hundreds/thousands of similar letter and/or a petition was to be organised he would have to react? (well you would hope!!!)

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bfbpuzzledPosted on11:40 am - Dec 16, 2015


One of the valuation assumptions normally used for property is that there are no onerous encumbrances in the titles. If that cannot be used because of such or the strong possibility of such then market value must be affected.
if the no encumbrances assumption when there are known encumbrances is used there are professional standards issues raised which might leave the valuer open to disciplinary procedures. Some west of Scotland surveyor firms are of the RRM persuasion.
if the encumbered value is used that might produce a very low market value, I believe that there are insurances available to cover the prospect of titles being bad which might muddy the position further.
This is like dry rot, if it had been dealt with properly and comprehensively in 2012 then there would be no problems now but because of the lack of such treatment there are spore and fruiting bodies appearing all over inside and outside the original site- and the treatment needs to be much more comprehensive now than then.
All fun and games now but someone might lose a proverbial eye

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on11:47 am - Dec 16, 2015


neepheid 16th December 2015 at 11:23 am #
but surely, there must be a plan?

Must there?

What happens if there was a plan and it got blown out the water.  What if plan B is scuppered as well?

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:56 am - Dec 16, 2015


Is ownership of the assets really so important? Where ever the courts decide ownership lies, if it is outwith the hands of TRFC, then surely the owner(s) would choose to sell to TRFC to achieve max return. Unless of course they are in the hands of a private individual who may prefer to lease.
   The assets have little value to anyone but a team owner, so even in the case of damages, it would not be a Liar’s ransom.

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tony

tonyPosted on12:00 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Corrupt official
how many would turn up to ibrox if they knew craig…oops a private individual was collecting their hard earned

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on12:07 pm - Dec 16, 2015


So only a very select few on DCK’s lunch list.
The Well general mgr just replied to me no letter whatever from RIFC.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on12:24 pm - Dec 16, 2015


tony 16th December 2015 at 12:00 pm #Corrupt officialhow many would turn up to ibrox if they knew craig…oops a private individual was collecting their hard earned
    ———————————————————————————————————-
   Well that’s the thing. If the accused are acquitted, then its same old same old, If they are busted, then that only leaves Mick Ashley, BDO or all the way back to Minty to choose from. 
   I think it is immaterial whether it is decided Craigy was shafted or not. He was still allegedly engaged in a criminal act, and bumped by his co-accused committing the same act, minus him.
   BDO will probably auction them to benefit the creditors, Minty would probably gift them to save his tarnished rep, and really only Ashley with his outside chance on securities, has the wherewithal to demand a lease.
   Of course there is also the Proceeds of crime laws to consider, but I suspect they would also be up for an auction too. 
 

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motor redPosted on12:41 pm - Dec 16, 2015


hello everyone, just posting to say i have written to aberdeen fc in regards to s milnes recent comments.to say i were unhappy would be an understatement. thanks to tayred ,i was inspired to get on board the good ship justice. great post tayred. thank you to j clark ,zero,allyjambo,neep,auldhead,redetin,big pink,homu,up the hoops,rougvie,smugas and the rest for your continual good work/posts.

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TBKPosted on12:47 pm - Dec 16, 2015


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history
RIFC have £800k left in the bank…………..? 

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gogsPosted on12:55 pm - Dec 16, 2015


“https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-historyRIFC have £800k left in the bank…………..? ”

Seems to be the exact same figure, to the penny, as this time last year…..?

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TBKPosted on12:57 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Apologies. Misread. Statement of Capital relating to 1p shares 14

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melbournedee

melbournedeePosted on12:57 pm - Dec 16, 2015


TBK  16th December 2015 at 12:47 pm #https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-historyRIFC have £800k left in the bank…………..? 
_________________________________________________________

That figure is the company’s authorised capital, not the bank balance.
See the filing from the previous year dated 10 December 2014 where the number is exactly the same.

—————————————————–

Edit: Too late. You have to be quick to respond to posts on here.

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M8DreamerPosted on1:00 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Tayred’s letter to Stewart Milne has hit the jackpot.
As a Hibs supporter/season ticket holder/shareholder Hibs are playing in the Scottish Championship on merit due to their relegation in season 2013/2014.
While I desperately want Hibs to return to the SPFL, it is absolutely imperative that this is achieved on “merit” only and not by some dodgy deals created in Hampden to enlarge the league to accommodate the “top” teams, or more importantly some new club from Govan.
This would be a complete absurdity and would also result in myself walking away from the sport I love.
The onlytwo words that should repeated by every fair minded football supporter in Scotland is “Sporting Integrity”, as without it the game is up.

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Kicker ConspiracyPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Corrupt official 16th December 2015 at 11:18 am

How does this sound for a plan.    League restructuring to be announced to come into effect next season. There will be no demotion from the premier, but teams from the Championship will be promoted. 
———————————————————————————————–
I suspect there would still be relegation, to maximise the number of Championship teams going up.

Can’t be too careful.

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SmugasPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 16, 2015


As I understand it the physical assets would still remain with the purchaser as long as they were purchased with good intent, no?  Compensation for Murray/Whyte/BDO would come in the form of insurance?

Otherwise, I agree, if outright ownership is handed back then there’s only one onward buyer.  The mob will make sure of it.

Corrupt Official @ 11.18

Of course if you go to a top 14 in June 2016 as mooted by Doncaster (his explanation of how they avoid the ‘spare team’ every saturday still makes me chuckle) that a certain club then scrape (or fly, don’t care really)  into, and simultaneously announce a further expansion to a top 16 in June 2017 then you accommodate with promotion and remove the risk of subsequent demotion in one fell swoop.  Just saying.

I loved the bears den last night claiming it would only be done to “save” their beloved United!  

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cowanpete

cowanpetePosted on1:13 pm - Dec 16, 2015


The Blue Pound.
This is something we could put together fairly quickly, and then submit to known journalists who share the SFM’s views. [Easy for me to say since I won’t be doing the numers 🙂
For each club in the Premiership, we need a fan from that club to do an assessment on how much extra money [if indeed any] would flow into that club under the circumstances of TRFC replacing Dundee Utd in the top 12 next season. Something along the lines of:
This year X DU fans came to the fixture. My club typically allows Y away fans to attend. So if TRFC were to bring  Y fans next season then my club would benefit by {y – x} times <ticket price> for each fixture of my club v TRFC.
We take these sums for each club in the Top 12 and sum them up. And then we make a wee Press Release.
Clearly it’s just an estimate because no-one can guarantee how many TRFC fans would in fact attend away fixtures next season.
Sorry if I have offended any Dundee United fans. It’s just a paper exercise. You just happen to be in 12th place.
We could do the same thing replacing Dundee Utd with any other club in the bottom six. But more work. Could be considered later once we get this quick n dirty assessment done.
Anyone up for this?

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on1:15 pm - Dec 16, 2015


ianagain 16th December 2015 at 12:07 pm
============================

Did you specifically ask about RIFC PLC, just in case he is being evasive and it actually came from TRFC.

As I understand it RIFC is just a holding company which owns the shares in TRFC. TRFC is the trading arm, which does things like putting a football team on the park and competing in Scottish football competitions.

I know it’s being pedantic, but experience tells us that some of these chaps will equivocate quite happily.

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SmugasPosted on1:17 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Without getting pedantic but instead intending to highlight the vagaries of the blue pound…

Don’t forget to levy the 5% booking + distribution fee that I understand some ‘away’ clubs insisted on levying on the home team.

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tayred

tayredPosted on1:28 pm - Dec 16, 2015


cowanpete  16th December 2015 at 1:13 pm #The Blue Pound.

It would be tricky to estimate the crowds for TRFC matches. I have little doubt that TRFC fans could fill the away part of the ground (unless they are struggling). The home support would be more difficult to judge. I for one won’t be there for reasons I think are pretty clear. I doubt I will be the only one.

I know many families will not contemplate taking their kids. The atmosphere at Pittodrie used to be truely poisonous when RFC were up, such that even back then many families simply gave it a miss.

There is also the potential for an increased population of that special type of fan that thrives on antagonising the opposition fans…. for that reason the first match at Pittodrie with TRFC frankly fills me with dread. 

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DeldonPosted on1:35 pm - Dec 16, 2015


My e mail to AFC/ Stewart Milne:
Dear Mr Milne, No doubt after your liaison and statement to the Press yesterday you will be receiving hundreds maybe thousands of e mail such as mine; so I’ll add to the criticizing of your stance via your statements to the Press. You may want the return of the newco Rangers and for us all to “move on” for the benefit of the game but, and not just Aberdeen fans like me but other fan bases will find it hard to move on regarding Rangers. You state: ‘We want to have the top league perceived in the best possible light. What’s happened in the past has happened. And: ‘If Rangers come up with the right approach – and everyone allows them to put what happened in the past behind them – it would be good for the game.
What is this “right approach?” For me and other fan bases I know of this ‘moving on’ cannot happen until several, at least moral as well as the SFA rules under D1.13 issues need to be addressed to which I hoped the Chairman of our club would at least stand up for: Newco Rangers (if saying they are the ‘same club’) need to take responsibility for their reckless and immoral behaviour for at least the period of the EBT years i.e. circa 2001- 2010. As it stands they have been found guilty at the recent Court of Session appellant on behalf of HMRC of illegal tax evasion. Dave King himself has stated in the past that ‘someone on behalf of the club needs to apologies for this period.’  There has been no contrition what so ever from Rangers oldco/ newco and in relation to US all moving on this at least needs to happen to begin any process of forgiving- if that can happen? And then there’s what happens with the ‘tainted period’ in which Rangers won 5 league titles, 4 Scottish Cups and 6 league cups. As well as this, Rangers where granted a license to play in Europe in 2012/ 13 season when they had declared that they owed HMRC monies (under the DOS scheme, circa £2.5 mil) that were not under appeal! Under UEFA’s Article 50  – No overdue payables towards employees and social/tax authorities of their Club Licensing & Financial Fair Play Regulations 2010; this license for RFC should never have been granted. This of course is more a matter for the SFA and is part of the Celtic AGM Resolution 12 to be considered and is ongoing in its motion. However, AFC as a member club themselves should have the morality to be supporting such an action if not publically then privately as this effected all SPL clubs at the time not just Celtic.
As part of the tainted period I would hope that you as chairman of AFC would at least have waited to see if any BDO ‘leave to appeal’ to the Court Of session would be granted in relation to the ‘Big tax case’ before making any club statement about “moving on.” If the BDO leave to appeal is not granted then this needs to hasten a new inquiry (perhaps judicial) as the ill-founded Lord Nimmo Smith inquiry findings as being ‘void’ as its terms of reference where based on EBTs being ‘legal’ at the time but as it stands in the SFA rule book under D1.13 the current CoS appeal decision leaves this rule being breached where: A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended. And “…for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches…a club must…deliver all other agreements providing for payment”. Indeed Rangers were fined around £250,000 by the Scottish Premier League after being found guilty of failing to correctly register players and that fine has never been paid! This is just one piece of evidence why we cannot ‘move on’ as part of any RFC contrition process should have already been paid. Then there’s the issue of the unfit & un-proper chairman of TRFC who could start the contrition period (as he previously sought to apologies back in 2012) but is failing to do so. I really hope that AFC distances themselves from such a character of Dave King and that any contact with a criminal with 41 counts of tax Evasion in South Africa, is someone that AFC should be questioning in their motives for us all to ‘move on’ especially after his rant back in November ; especially on a personal front should his ‘charm offensive’ allow this opportunity to happen. Statements such as below need to be challenged: Finally, it is extraordinary that representatives of other Scottish clubs – who admit the damage done to Scottish football by Rangers’ removal from the Premier League – should even wish to re-engage with this issue. It is time those individuals, who represent other clubs, recognise their legal and fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and shareholders rather than submit to the uninformed ramblings of a few outspoken fans to whom attacking Rangers is more important than the wellbeing of their own clubs. This is a misguided attempt (that will ultimately fail) to rewrite history and defeat Rangers off the park when their teams could not do so on the park at the time. The history of many other clubs would have to be rewritten if this illogical argument was to be consistently applied. (Dave King 12th November 2015) I really hoped that you as chairman of AFC who is ‘representing’ OUR club do listen to the seemingly “uninformed ramblings” of not a “few outspoken fans” but a majority of the AFC fan base (and other fan bases) in the interest of maintaining the “wellbeing” of our own club! Statements such as this from a club Chairman who has previously wanted to apologies for RFC’s behaviour should be challenged collectively by SPFL members clubs with AFC prominent in condemning such a belligerent stance from a ‘peer member club.’ You maybe concentration on the financial good of the game but the moral and legal aspects of our game destroyed by one team by clear breach of the SFA rules and Tax laws that all clubs have to follow means that ‘Moving On’ can only happen when these issues are finally fully addressed perhaps in a judicial sense and whatever club Rangers want to be, take the punishment that comes (not the consequences) with breaching those rules & laws. I would imagine that if where AFC in TRFC position the clamour for our club to be punished under the rules would never be relinquished by a fan base who wouldn’t allow the governing bodies to forget. Finally with your comments yesterday, I really do feel let down by yours and so the AFC stance as do many other AFC fans/ supporters (just read the fans websites). You perhaps have too close an eye for the ££££s and not enough on ‘your customers’ who you know want sporting justice and integrity upheld in relation to what Rangers (old/ new) have currently and in the recent past done nothing but sully and destroy our national sport. Evidence of AFC fans’ deep feelings towards the issues mentioned above could be seen at prior to the away game against Hamilton Accies in November You’ll see in the banner “US” they certainly have represented my feelings on the issues and if you don’t feel the same way as your fan/ customer base then perhaps you are not keeping a ‘pulse’ on your moral obligations to the people who matter? We have the second oldest FA in the world do you really think the oldest FA (EFA) would allow a member club away with rule breaches in fielding illegible players and flouting of tax law and payments? NO! AFC have a duty to question, along with the other member clubs, our FA’s flouting and ignoring of its own rules so that one establishment team can evade and escape punishment and moral obligations.

Moving on in Scottish Football can only happen as part of a wider addressing of issues presented by (T)RFC, SFA and SPFL’s complicit nature in avoiding over the last few years to which AFC should be playing its role in supporting in ensuring our game’s integrity is maintained.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on2:05 pm - Dec 16, 2015


tayred 16th December 2015 at 1:28 pm # cowanpete  16th December 2015 at 1:13 pm #The Blue Pound.
It would be tricky to estimate the crowds for TRFC matches. I have little doubt that TRFC fans could fill the away part of the ground (unless they are struggling).

========================================

Not if places like follow follow are to be believed, in which case Rangers fans will be boycotting pretty much every other SPFL premiership ground. Certainly the ones who “kicked them when they were down”…. “voted them out of the SPL” … every other myth they have grown to believe.

If you take what they say on face value then the clubs should certainly not want them back for financial reasons. If anything their away support and the income from it will drop.

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tayred

tayredPosted on2:08 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Homunculus  16th December 2015 at 2:05 pm #Not if places like follow follow are to be believed, in which case Rangers fans will be boycotting pretty much every other SPFL premiership ground. Certainly the ones who “kicked them when they were down”…. “voted them out of the SPL” … every other myth they have grown to believe.

True… so nobody is going to be there apart from the SMSM…  I’d love that!

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John ClarkPosted on2:23 pm - Dec 16, 2015


tayred 16th December 2015 at 9:59 am
Deldon 16th December 2015 at 1:35 pm
_____
Superbly well done, gentlemen.
Now, who’s writing to Houston?

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southstandcharliePosted on2:28 pm - Dec 16, 2015


bordersdon 16th December 2015 at 11:37 am”Put a little more eloquently than my statement.I’m sure the message you express will be shared by many, many Dons fans everywhere who supported our team through the cheating times. Chances of a reply from SM? Very slim I suspect but if he were to received hundreds/thousands of similar letter and/or a petition was to be organised he would have to react? (well you would hope!!!)”
I recall there was an initial attempt to place newco The Rangers in the top league after the liquidation event. I’m fairly certain that at that time the SPL chairman were generally in support of this plan. I also recall that a poll was run by the local Aberdeen paper, the Evening Express, which resulted in a significant majority of Dons fans saying they would boycott Pittodrie in this event. It was only after that poll that Mr Milne spoke out in opposition to the plan. On that occasion fan power had the necessary effect.
It is therefore very disappointing to hear his latest comments. He obviously needs a sharp reminder and I intend to join with the other voices here in delivering it to him. I’m very serious that if The Rangers are in any way manipulated back into the top league then I won’t be back.

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wottpiPosted on2:36 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Re the Blue Pound.

Hibs v Falkirk 2nd v 3rd attendance 9459
Hibs v T@Rangers 2nd v 1st attendance 14412.

Forget the too-ing and fro-ing of Hibs fans staying away, Falkirk travelling support etc etc and say 5000.

5k at £25 a pop = 125k x twice a season – £250k then take off extra policing costs VAT etc etc and you are well under 200k.

Attract 600 new season ticket holders at £300 a pop = £180,000. Blue pound cancelled out.

An attractive Hibs side easily have the ability to get back to average attendances of 12,000 as in previous years when in the top division.

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Big PinkPosted on2:45 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Doing a bit of housekeeping on the site today. If anyone is still waiting on their mug or calendar, could you please let me know right away?

I’ve also added a pre-order for the new T-Shirts which will be available in early January (although you can order them now)

I continue to be mightily annoyed that EVERY SINGLE Scottish football club is ignoring our requests to be put on their mailing lists for press notices. I really don’t know what to do about that except increase our audience to the extent that they can’t ignore us any longer.

I have also written very nice letters to Ann Budge (on 12th December) and Mike Mulraney (on 24th November) asking for the opportunity to interview both. Unfortunately, I have had no reply from either as yet.

I think we have said all along that we may have to force the clubs to engage with us. I thought Mulraney might be fan-centric in the style of Turnbull Hutton, but it’s not looking good.

It does underline the main area of conflict here though. TRFC may be the headline, but the whole story is the clubs’ distaste for engaging with fans. I am reserving judgement on AB (a bit early to expect a reply), but the PR teams/individuals (including the folk I worked with at Parkhead) are giving us a huge collective rubber 🙁

Of course ignoring us is a better option than getting involved in any dialogue. I think the MSM/Club PR axis is determined to keep the closed shop, er, closed 🙂

As a counter measure, Tris and I have been looking at some exciting plans designed to increase the reach of the blog, and we hope to be able to bring those plans to you guys early in the New Year.

Tris is also away on holiday so we are one mod down for the next couple of weeks – so do me a favour and behave guys and gals 22

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on2:57 pm - Dec 16, 2015


BP

Something just occurred.

Have you contacted NewsNow re the blogs being linked there. I’m not sure how it works, and I know the blogs themselves are fairly infrequent but it is another way to get things out there.

I joined one forum based on reading a link on NewsNow, liking the cut of their jib and joining the forum to read more from the same people and those who responded to threads.

I’m not sure if stuff is submitted on an article by article basis, or they use some other method but if you haven’t considered it you may wish to.

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SmugasPosted on3:25 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Just thinking aloud as I pen my effort to S Milne.

Where, honestly, would RFC* have been had the rules (ok some of them) been applied?*

  1. Liquidation hence reapplication.  Result: exactly the same assuming the same commerciality argument was applied to fast track div 4 entry.
  2. Titles.  Stripped.  Tough. Deal with it.  Result:  Outcry and a few wobblers no doubt, but fundamentally the impact on the footballing side would have been identical.  Lower Ibrox crowds in the inevitable boycott?  Personally I think it would have been short lived.  See below.
  3. Financials:  well they’d have been £400,000 better off for a start, unless of course they just didn’t pay the fine in which case, same as.  Smaller Ibrox crowds?  Smaller revenues to blow in 5 star hotels  in preparation for beating diddies off the night shift (no disrespect intended).  The result might actually have been a tighter ship sooner more akin to the hearts model. 
  4. Impact on other fans:  Especially prescient here.  Something with a close approximation to ‘right’ would have been done.  Sure, it would be rough round the edges with more than a few loose threads on show but fundamentally the damage to the game in general would have been limited.  I can hear Neil D itching to reply (we all know you read it Neil) “Ah, but more damage than keeping them up.”  Yes, but the option to keep them up was never available.  It shouldn’t have been in the room, never mind on the table!  Thanks again RTC for that!
  5. OK.  Not going to win me any friends on here.  OC/NC.  well, without going into details and without expecting Dave King and Campbell Ogilvie to turn up on bended knee stating they are a new club I would argue that with the 4 points mentioned above  dealt with more appropriately then point 5, OC/NC would be exactly the same as it is now.  That’s wrong.  Fundamentally wrong if for no other reason than it encourages a potential liquidatee to repeat, and repeat, and repeat.  BUT, in the bigger scheme of things, if “The Big Lie” ((c) J Clarke) was an intended goal, and I think that goes without saying, then it could have sat quite happily boiling away but separate to the above points which have more immediate financial implication.

So, to get back to the matter in hand.  Mr Milne is asking me to move on from what exactly?  Since it strikes me that had he used his influence via Duncan Fraser satisfactorily on the first 4 points, I would at least consider, politely and generously, his request. 

*Again it goes without saying but worth repeating anyway – had the rules pre 2012 been applied of course none of this, or a much less damaging version, need have happened at all. 

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iceman63Posted on4:16 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Stewart Milne has today revealed that he has no interest in, nor understanding of, the sport of football. He has no support from the Aberdeen fans and yet he officially represents their club.

I have not put a single penny into Scottish football since 2012.

The mindset of those who own the businesses that are called clubs but which are absolutely no such thing is one which is fundamentally opposed to the concept of sport.

Those who continue to support any club in Scottish Football, whatever else they may be supporting, are not, sadly, in any way supporting anything which could be classified as sport.

That is the sad reality of football in Scotland today. 

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on4:21 pm - Dec 16, 2015


News now is a good shout, it picks up Phil Mac amongst others.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on4:27 pm - Dec 16, 2015


   I never doubted for a minute the Aberdeen guys n gals would let Milne know their feelings on his latest comments. WELL DONE !
   Something tells me a similar response will be needed by every other fan group, and if that means voting with our feet, then so be it. Did nobody tell our masters that the bloo pound went bust. 
    It was a myth like every other myth………They never had any !
   Now it looks like they want every other colour of pound to go belly up too. …..No appetite?….It would be a big mistake for them to forget who puts the meat on the table. ! See how they like eating fresh air. 

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on4:37 pm - Dec 16, 2015


iceman63 16th December 2015 at 4:16 pm #Stewart Milne has today revealed that he has no interest in, nor understanding of, the sport of football. He has no support from the Aberdeen fans and yet he officially represents their club.
I have not put a single penny into Scottish football since 2012.
=====================
You saw (or smelled, more like)  the way the wind was blowing faster than me. My “road to Damascus” moment was the unopposed coronation of the “conflicted” Ogilvie for his second term as SFA president, June 2013. That was enough for me. And EVERY club is responsible for that. There has not been a penny from me to the game since then. And these guys who run the clubs are supposed to be businessmen? Laughable. Treating your customers like fools is NOT a good business model. But Milne will give it another go. Stupid, or what?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on4:40 pm - Dec 16, 2015


zerotolerance1903 16th December 2015 at 11:47 am # neepheid 16th December 2015 at 11:23 am # but surely, there must be a plan?Must there?
What happens if there was a plan and it got blown out the water.  What if plan B is scuppered as well?
___________________________________________

I suspect neeps is right, and there is a plan. Just maybe not a very good plan, though, or a workable one, or…maybe a King type plan that involves a lot of untruths, the type that fool northern chairmen into making unwise statements on behalf of a club run by charlatans.

Not all plans work. Some appear to work at first but fall apart further on down the line. Sometimes the bad planners know it’s a bad plan and get out before it goes wrong. Sometimes they end up in court.

But…there will undoubtedly be a plan!

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SmugasPosted on5:08 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Whilst researching my Milne response I was struck by this quote that I’m surprised hasn’t prompted more comment.

“The sky deal was renegotiated when we lost Rangers because they were part of the deal”  (Firstly top bodyswerve around OC/NC Stewart!)

Ah, the mythical 4 OF games clause.  So I take it you and your board are going to put the new deal that we just know is sitting on a shelf somewhere on the table?  If required you’re going to sell us reconstruction on the back of it?  You are going to get the media company to put up their money having been promised massive media exposure through the involvement of the two big clubs and the advertising contact hours that implies? 

No.  Of course you won’t.  You’ll hide behind “commercial sensitivity” and use that to (sorry Nicole) continue to write cheques that your boards can’t deliver.  Or can they?  Bring it on.

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SmugasPosted on5:19 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Oops.  Just to avoid the inevitable thumbs down avalanche03 the “writing cheques” quote was of course James ‘Stinger’ Tolkan in Top Gun, not Nicole Kidman in Days of Thunder as I recalled!  

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yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on5:33 pm - Dec 16, 2015


The way the tv deal was worded that every club had only 2 home games against any one club,work it out.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on5:38 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Superscoreboard ‏@ClydeSSB 37m37 minutes ago Is the spirit of harmony returning to Scottish football? Join Gerry, Mark Guidi and @alexrae1969 from 6.
================
Could this be the latest phase in the Level5/King “charm offensive”? Surely not! But I’m sure that someone with a stronger stomach than me will check it out and let us know.

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SmugasPosted on5:52 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Yourhavingalaugh @ 5.33

Sorry if I’m being slow.  Thewording in the clause you cite can only be upheld if you are ‘guaranteeing’ top 6 participation (to complete the run of four games), and that by “every club” you mean “two” (since I doubt you’d gamble any more of the clubs to be ‘definitely placed.’

Or am I missing something?

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on6:06 pm - Dec 16, 2015


tayred.
Chapeau doesn’t even come close.
Bunnet.
Bunnetissimo.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:11 pm - Dec 16, 2015


STV News coming up
The clamour for a top 1610

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bfbpuzzledPosted on6:22 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Peter Winston Smith- surely the scriptwriters would not use the name of the main character in 1984 – a man whose job was to rewrite history using newspeak. Not only that but it would be even more bonkers if that character was a high court judge in the Saga of Sevco adjudicating on a dispute between Bad Mike the head man of a Dystopian and Dickensian business if reports are correct and a notorious teller of tall tales which would put th Wizard of Oz to shame. 
Fort those of us who can remember Stingray all I can say is that “Anything could happen in the next half hour!”

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:25 pm - Dec 16, 2015


A joint statement issued by the SPFL Chairpersons, (which I just made up).

“In this season of goodwill to all men, we have agreed that it is now time for all Scottish football fans to put any transgressions made by Rangers FC in the past, into the past – and for the fans to welcome the Ibrox club back into the top league.

It is the sensible behaviour we expect from our fantastic fans.

And please continue to spend your money at our well-stocked club shops for your Christmas presents and maybe bring your whole family to a home game over the Festive period.

So to summarize: just SHUT IT!!!  about Rangers…but keep spending your money to support your club.

Merry Christmas.”

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AOBPosted on6:58 pm - Dec 16, 2015


For those Dons fans writing to their club by e-mail, I would wager that there will be no response due to ‘traffic’. I wrote to the CEO by recorded delivery and asked for his signature and a reply. Shall see what happens. Here is mine.(PS tried to post this earlier this morning but only the first two letters got through. Apologies if anyone was sublimally offended.)
Dear Sir,Press comments made by Mr Stewart MilneYou may be receiving quite a few communications from furious customers (fans) as it seems we are heading towards a series of events that will force supporters to walk away from football forever. Please be professional enough to actually reply to me on the points raised, as I have a similar letter ready to go to all local media outlets in the event of non-reply.Quotes attributed to your non-executive chairman include such things as:-‘’time to move on’’“all top teams in Premiership” and ‘’drop talk of title stripping”. With the comments from the Falkirk manager following hard on the heels of the above jaw-dropping sound-bites from Mr Milne, it is clear that a full frontal Level 5, PR campaign has been launched to soften us all up for a major event that will once again throw sporting integrity to the wall (the same PR specialists are also conveniently the mouthpiece of the SPFL’s sponsors). Of course, any news or announcements surrounding The Rangers Football Club Ltd (TRFC) is always likely to be farcical and at odds with common decency, so average Scottish football fans are bracing themselves for a complete stitch-up. If there is one club that brings the game into disrepute every time one of its Directors opens its mouth it is, of course, TRFC who deem it fitting to appoint a convicted criminal to its helm. You may have received the much-laughed at ‘olive-branch’ letter from Chairman King. All of your customers and presumably sponsors will be expecting you to ignore it, given its source is disreputable and untrustworthy to say the least.Anyway, please can I have your answers and comments to the following questions/observations:-“Moving on”. This can indeed happen. It can happen after those responsible for the years of maladministration (some people are calling it corruption) and proven cheating actually admit it and then unreservedly apologise for it. This includes not just the people who ran the liquidated club, now called RFC 2012 plc (King was involved there too) but also the authorities who ignored or colluded in the years of irregularities and then tried to cover it up. These individuals are still around to taint the game (Regan, Doncaster, Ogilvie, Bryson, Dickson et al). So the question is: – – Will Aberdeen Football Club call for full transparency from the powers of Scottish football and seek a full admission of their role in presiding over such a farce?“Stripping of titles”. Well, its actually an old club issue but the new club seem to think they have bought the history and are quick to threaten anyone who talks against that mantra. Obviously a judicial review should be called on the Nimmo-Smith investigation and the way the evidence was ‘fed’ to him and more importantly the evidence that was kept from him. Following such a review then the SFA / SPFL can sit down and talk about a suitable punishment. If that includes making certain titles null and void (like in athletics and cycling) then so be it. My questions here are: – – Will Aberdeen Football Club call for an independent review to look thoroughly at the player’s registration issue at RFC 2012 plc from the Discounted Options years to the end of the EBT years? – Similarly will Aberdeen Football Club be making a statement to its customers that it is fully aware that TRFC are a new club and treat it as such? The silence on this from AFC is seen as compliance in the survival myth – or the ‘big lie’ as it is known amongst the people who pay money to your club each week.“Top clubs in Premiership”. This is an easy one for AFC to answer:– Do you, as a club, think it is the way forward to participate in a ‘franchised’ league system where sporting merit is of no consequence? The fans will leave you in droves if that is the case, as will sponsors and advertisers no doubt.On the question of UEFA licensing:– Will AFC be making a statement on their views about the situation that led to RFC 2012 plc being given a license to play in European competition when they clearly did not meet the UEFA criteria? The SFA have been stonewalling the requisitioners for years now due to them knowing they are guilty. – Will Aberdeen Football Club be seeking justice and transparency in this tawdry episode? You now at least have the FC Twente case to quote.I think you will have gathered by now that the supporters of your club just want strong leadership to uphold the laws of the game without bias, something that plainly does not happen. The public also just want to know they are watching a fair tussle between two rule-complying teams. If that means the football standards slip further and money gets tighter, then so be it.To finish, with TRFC lurching towards a financial collapse (like its predecessor club) Scottish Football fans will be watching events very closely. There can be no question of us accepting another unprecedented and completely unjustified 5-way agreement type disgrace and in many ways we are still where we were in 2012 i.e. a fans revolt looks necessary.So, I would imagine your club will want to tread very carefully at the moment, keeping your integrity and not falling into the same mistake of believing there is actually a mythical blue pound that will save us all. We know there isn’t and we, the fans, are happy to get on without such pandering.I look forward to receiving the answers to my questions.Yours faithfully
XXXX(shareholder, season ticket holder and pumping money into your club since 1968)

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:22 pm - Dec 16, 2015


Well done to those taking the time to contact Milne.

And what is impressive with these communications – and with many others in the past – is just how informed the Bampots have become.
The recipients can’t just dismiss these emails / letters as rantings from rabid fans foaming at the mouth.

The recipients should be really concerned that ‘average footie punters’ know what is really going on – and simply no longer swallow the mince from the SMSM. 
And the recipients should also be painfully aware by now that simply ignoring these paying punters / customers is simply not going to work.

At some point they (chairpersons or SFA or SPFL) will have to engage with Scottish football fans and address the multitude of ‘awkward’ questions.
The longer they avoid these questions, the longer they delay the opportunity for Scottish football to ‘move on’.

…to state the bleedin’ obvious…

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