I have been receiving quite a bit of unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.
The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.
Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.
The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.
If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.
There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.
If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.
There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.
Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.
We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.
The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.
To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”
Brenda says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:04
93
————————————————————
and counting 🙂
iamacant
Wish I was a fly on the wall!!
Tic 6709 says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:03
Whoa there, Tic.
Never did say there wasn’t corruption. I think there has been – or at least heavily compromised individuals who have not done what they ought to have done in their position. I didn’t even say there wasn’t conspiracy, although I doubt it.
Loads of people have behaved appallingly – I am just reluctant to believe the wildest conspiracy theories without a reasonable cause to do so.
Night terror @ 11.16. Fair enough.
Morning all,
WRT Goosys post last night.
Is the attempted liquidation of Liberty Corporate the first step in what would have been a chain reaction,supposedly ending with CW,CG and all their pals walking away with the lot?.
Are we now approaching the real end game?.
Question:
We know that a couple of liquidations,featuring a couple of the participants here were opposed recently.Can any action be taken to oppose a liquidation of a company registered in the BVI?.
Brenda says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:15
iamacant
Wish I was a fly on the wall!
—————————————————————————-
WHAT!!!! You’d have CO running around with a rolled up newspaper trying to swat you as he’s got nowt else to occupy his time (well, maybe looking over his shoulder :-))
goosygoosy says:
September 27, 2012 at 21:53
Interesting stuff, Goosy. This is certainly the sort of stuff you’ve been looking for all along. How confident are you in this would you say?
In the interest of checking the story out – can anyone with experience in this area give an opinion on Goosy’s analysis?
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 10:32
If Rennie vs RTC was a boxing match they’d be screaming for the ref to end it now. I’ve saved this as a sterling example of The Peter Principle.
=========================================================================
In a large organisation that I worked for over a ten year period this principle was actively used to promote people into positions where they could do no harm! Back then there was no social media to worry about.
I am guessing having his valient attempts to defend his paper crushed in 140 character soundbites Rennie will consider closing his twitter account. A small part of me feels sorry for him.Only a very small part mind.
Might be tomorrow at 9pm ish 34+93=137hrs CO’s could have got his arm caught in the basement filing cabinet? Bet he would give a limb to see this all go away.
127 get me coat.
wottpi says:
September 28, 2012 at 09:38
I suppose if you sell the stadium to a company who want to use it for other purposes such as concerts and the like and you get your cash up front, pay off your debts and jet off into the Sunset great. That said I cannot see in the current financial climate any bank lending for this type of thing and if you look at the new indoor stadium being built at the SECC why would anyone seriously buy Ibrox, it’s only revenue stream will be football.
On a different subject altogether but a topical one regrading the EBT loans there must be plenty of IFA’s or FA’s with banks who work on behalf of these players and agents who would have been given these sums of money to invest on their customers behalf. Many would be told of BTW I’m expecting a pile of cash in 2 years, do these guys have any legal obligation to ask where and how the money comes about? maybe not any thoughts out there ?
Briggsbhoy, the IFAS or banks or whoever was investing the money have a duty to report anything supsicious under money laundering regulations but no other duty as to where the money came from.
As long as they are satisified that the money is not criminal proceeds then they have done their duty.
Rangers Supporters @rangersfctrust
BBC not invited to today’s press conference. Shame.
Bit petty, no? 😉
Whoa, steady the buffs. Lets not start on Allan Rennie and the DR which is a fine publication containing the sports writer of the year. Some examples of his outstanding work:
Craig Whyte profile: The Scots billionaire on the brink of taking over the club he loves
FINANCIAL whizzkid Craig Whyte stands on the brink of pulling off the biggest deal of his life – and finally bringing the curtain down on one of the longest-running sagas in Scottish football.
Craig Whyte started playing the stock market at the age of 15. By the time he left school he had more than £20,000 in his bank account.
Today, aged just 39, this financial whizzkid from Motherwell stands on the brink of pulling off the biggest deal of his life – and finally bringing the curtain down on one of the longest-running sagas in Scottish football.
Record Sport understands self-made billionaire Whyte has entered into the final stages of negotiations to buy control of the club he loves from Sir David Murray.
And he’s still one year younger than captain Davie Weir.
A deal worth around £30million is now believed to have reached such an advanced stage that sources say Whyte, a high-roller who splits his time between a home in London and the idyllic Castle Grant in Grantown-on-Spey, could even have the keys to Ibrox in time to fund a major refurbishment of Walter Smith’s top-team squad in January.
The news will delight Rangers supporters who have been fretting over the future of their club ever since Murray first slapped a For Sale sign on the front door of Edmiston Drive around three years ago.
As the club’s financial health deteriorated to such an extent the banks moved in to control the purse strings, a series of false dawns came and went.
First, a consortium headed up by South African-based tycoon Dave King came to the fore only to fail to meet Murray’s asking price.
Then, in March this year, Londonbased property developer Andrew Ellis emerged as the frontrunner and was granted a period of exclusivity in order to get the deal done.
But Ellis, now part of the consortium, did not have the financial clout to back up his bold promises and his bid collapsed, leaving Rangers firmly in the grip of the Lloyds Group.
Exiled Glaswegian King was then talked up once more as the possible saviour but he was also engaged in a long-running battle with the tax man and while those issues remained unresolved, he too looked l ike an increasingly unlikely white knight for a club now engulfed by crisis.
But yesterday, quite out of the blue, Record Sport learned a new man is at the table and that a deal to end Murray’s 22-year reign is ready to be completed.
And that man is a relative boy.
By the age of 26, Whyte was already Scot land’s youngest self-made millionaire. Now, 13 years on, and in charge of a vast business empire, his wealth is off the radar.
Whyte is a venture capitalist who has made his millions from playing the markets – a skill he secret ly began honing in his third year at Glasgow’s Kelvinside Academy. In one of his few interviews he revealed how he immediately regretted going to the private school – because he despised playing rugby.
He said: “I hated the discipline of it. It was a rugby-only school, which I didn’t play as I was interested in football.” Whyte worked weekends for his dad’s plant hire firm. And he saved up his wages to fund his habit of gambling on Stock Exchange.
It is said that, by the time he left school, he had more cash in his bank than many of his teachers.
At 19, he was in charge of his own hire plant.
Now he owns his own castle – one of the most historic buildings in Scotland. And very soon he could be adding Rangers to his portfolio. It remains to be seen if Whyte’s move to capture the club will f lush any other parties out of the woodwork because – despite their failure to strike a deal with Murray – King and his consortium have yet to throw in the towel on their own ambitions.
They had put together a package worth around £18m but this was flatly rejected and Ellis drove the price up when he agreed to pay Murray more than £30m.
The club’s debt has been reduced by around £10m since then but the selling price remains the same.
Now, quite clearly, Whyte believes he will be able to close the deal and the young gun must have said enough to impress Murray, who has stated all along that he will only sell the club to the right people – men with enough money to take the club forward.
Who knows? Murray may even regard Whyte as something of a kindred spirit.
After all, Murray was himself aged just 37 back in 1988 when he launched a takeover of the Ibrox club.
It was the beginning of one of the most successful periods in Rangers’ history but Murray’s aggressive pursuit of European glory eventually saw him writing the kind of cheques that his club could simply not afford.
Now Whyte is bringing his money to the table but it remains to be seen if he will adopt the same scatter-cash approach as the man who has owned the club for the past two decades.
But if he brings in even half of the number of trophies Murray delivered then the fans are unlikely to be complaining.
and here:
Rangers in crisis: Our man Keith Jackson tells how he uncovered the truth about Craig Whyte
TUESDAY June 14, 2011 – the day I knew the man in charge of Rangers was lying through his teeth and covering up a secret plan to put a 140-year-old institution at risk of ruin.
TUESDAY June 14, 2011 – the day I knew the man in charge of Rangers was lying through his teeth and covering up a secret plan to put a 140-year-old institution at risk of ruin.
That was the day the Record reported for the first time that Whyte had made his big move to sell off four years’ worth of season ticket sales.
The response from this odd little man was instant and emphatic. I was banned from Ibrox forthwith, my story dismissed as a pack of lies.
During a heated telephone conversation with Whyte the following day, he even told me my story – which was based upon a document he’d registered at Companies House – was littered with inaccuracies.
In fact, he said, what he had done by submitting that paperwork was protecting those tickets, not mortgaging them off. How very silly of me.
Our story had stated: “Record Sport has been alerted to a Companies House document in the names of Whyte and his newly appointed right-hand man in the boardroom, Phil Betts. This has raised concerns among prominent supporters at Ibrox.
“Analysts say the document could signal Whyte’s intent to mortgage off the next four years’ worth of season ticket money as a security against some form of loan.”
We added: “Rangers season-ticket holders will want to know where their hard-earned cash is going and if Whyte plans to use it to finance his initial takeover, which saw him agree to wipe out an £18million debt with Lloyds Bank.”
After my ban, Whyte went further. He invited his pet paper The Scottish Sun and The Herald along for interviews.
In the Herald, he said: “Contrary to a report elsewhere this week, no form has been signed that would allow season-ticket money to be used as a guarantee against any future loans.”
Also handed a sit-down was Tom English from Scotland on Sunday, who said Whyte was “incensed” with the Record.
It added: “After a bout of apoplexy, he got to thinking where this story might have come from. ‘I don’t know, but I hear that some of the previous directors are still sniping away in the background, still trying to cause trouble where they can. I think it’s a pity that some of these guys didn’t go gracefully instead of going disgracefully.’”
This morning, Whyte may be wise to consider taking his own advice. But he won’t. The breakdown in his relationship with the truth has gone too far.
Fast forward eight months or so, James Traynor and I are finally given the go-ahead by the Record legal experts to print the same story all over again after learning that HMRC had launched a full scale probe into £5million in missing VAT money from the season ticket deal.
You know, that one that Whyte didn’t do.
This time, we have all the figures and dates. We even know that the £24.4million was handed over to his lawyers, Collyer Bristow, before the takeover had been completed. In other words, he’d sold season tickets which weren’t even his to sell.
Whyte is finally forced to tell the truth… well, almost. This time he admits tranches of tickets were sold off, while strenuously denying that he used any of the proceeds to pay off the club’s £18million debt to Lloyds Bank.
On the club’s website on January 31, he lied: “In the most lurid terms, the Record accuses the club’s management, and specifically me, of using supporters’ money to help fund the buyout of Rangers. Not true.
“The Daily Record’s approach to this story sought to distort and dramatise the matter. I for one will not be reading or buying the Daily Record again and I’m sure many other Rangers fans will share my disgust at yet another smear on this club.”
Rangers fans might have been a little more disgusted two weeks later when Whyte finally plunged their club into the carnage of administration.
Yesterday, however, Whyte was left with no more room to manoeuvre and no more lies to tell. He had been rumbled.
But let’s hope, at least, he sticks to his promise never to buy a Daily Record again.
Mr Whyte, your sort are simply not welcome. In fact, let’s just say you can officially consider yourself BANNED.
mirrenman says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:53
Rangers Supporters @rangersfctrust
BBC not invited to today’s press conference. Shame.
Bit petty, no?
========================================
i’m guessing CG isn’t using Jack for his PR anymore
another headline, someone is against Sevco, more injustice and persecution
he is playing a blinder, the fools will soon be parted from their cash and CG will be gone. I’m hoping a financially hobbled Sevco bounces around in the lower leagues for years to come with embarrassment after embarrassment to follow (follow)
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..(Ghandi)
Judging by the TD’s it looks like Jack and the Presstitutes were all in last night but alas they don’t get it,a thumb down is a sign that they are inept, weak and pandering to the sevconian indset in order that they can sell the rags that their existence depends upon.
There was only ever going to be one winnet in this corrupt affair and by their action last night we kmow its not the MSM, hats off to RTC and TSFM as I’ve said all along the truth woll come out and then we will see who’s stiil there to be counted as the fallout begins
mirrenman says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:53
If only BBC Scotland would turn the Thick of It team loose on this saga. Still, by the time Only an Excuse comes round we will have had LNS and the FTT, the guys will need the full 90 minutes plus injury time to do it justice!
Jane Lewis @JaneLewisSport
No radio or TV interviews on the BBC from #Rangers 2day. Sorry about that folks – BBC not invited 2 2days media conference.
—————————-
Being banned from Ibrox should be seen as a journalistic badge of integrity
Im sure Mr Traynor can still wear his Daily Record hat to gain entry though
Mr Charles in a rinse and repeat tactic of Craig Whyte
In fact his whole approach is uncannily similair to his predecessor
Promise signings -remember that invisible line that as long as the fans passed the money for Ally would be forthcoming.
Wax lyrical about the worldwide appeal of the clumpbany
the billionaire investors ,was it 20 or 30 names he was releasing ?
The shuffling of assets via various companies
Threats of legal action
and now the old banning of the media who cannot be trusted to not ask questions
I wonder if the bills and taxes are being paid on time now
are there still clubs owed monies promised ?
Hows that name change of Murray Park coming along ? was that another promise
to the ST holders that has vanished into the ether
And still the fans and Blazers believe in this cheap suit Charlie
Night Terror says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:22ll well
In the interest of checking the story out – can anyone with experience in this area give an opinion on Goosy’s analysis?
=++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sounds plausible to me as Whyte gets paid off for his troubles – but why accept liability for the Ticketus season ticket deal when the CoS ruled that it was a debt like any other in this liquidation. Unless of course Charlie & Co ARE Ticketus.
Night Terror says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:22
Interesting stuff, Goosy. This is certainly the sort of stuff you’ve been looking for all along. How confident are you in this would you say?
,,,,,,,,
torrejohnbhoy says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:20
WRT Goosys post last night.
Is the attempted liquidation of Liberty Corporate the first step in what would have been a chain reaction,supposedly ending with CW,CG and all their pals walking away with the lot?.
Are we now approaching the real end game?.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Night Terror, torrejohnbhoy
My analysis is no doubt out in certain aspects but its most unlikely to be out in anything that would change the end situation
i.e
CW will be paid off. Probably a lot less than the £27.5m he claims to be owed
Close Leasing and Ticketus will be repaid in full
Green and his backers will at least double their investment
,,,,,,,,
Most of the pay off for the spivs will come from the fundraising
The fund raising can`t possibly raise enough to meet the current debt so there will be a residual debt owed to Ticketus and other hidden investors
TRFC will be paying this off for years
Fans investing in the share issue will effectively be paying off Spivs
goosygoosy says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:21
My analysis is no doubt out in certain aspects but its most unlikely to be out in anything that would change the end situation
i.e
CW will be paid off. Probably a lot less than the £27.5m he claims to be owed
Close Leasing and Ticketus will be repaid in full
Green and his backers will at least double their investment
,,,,,,,,
Most of the pay off for the spivs will come from the fundraising
The fund raising can`t possibly raise enough to meet the current debt so there will be a residual debt owed to Ticketus and other hidden investors
TRFC will be paying this off for years
Fans investing in the share issue will effectively be paying off Spivs
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That the new Rangers will be heavily indebted because they are effectively carrying large amounts of debt from Oldco is the ultimate irony. Even more ironic is that any new shareholder investment by fans will be profit for Charlie and Whyte and won’t find its way into the club other than to pay down debt.
They could have had a debt free new start but their fans are too interested in following leaders who promise to uphold the “traditions” (in some ways it is upholding these traditions that is more important for these “leaders” than football) to notice they are being taken for a ride – AGAIN!
bogsdollox says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:12
Haven’t checked for a while, any movement on the Jarndyce v Jarndyce cases down south?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..(Ghandi)
Judging by the TD’s it looks like Jack and the Presstitutes were all in last night but alas they don’t get it,a thumb down is a sign that they are inept, weak and pandering to the sevconian mindset in order that they can sell the rags that their existence depends upon.
There was only ever going to be one winnet in this corrupt affair and by their action last night we kmow its not the MSM, hats off to RTC and TSFM as I’ve said all along the truth woll come out and then we will see who’s stiil there to be counted as the fallout begins
chris shields @ 11:25
I can’t say I feel any pity for rennie. RTC said it best: naked self interest and fear of repercussions of telling the truth. You could put that in stock as the career eptiaph for so many of the players in the sorry saga.
McCoist and the serried ranks of loyal fans up in arms over the ‘tasteless’ BBC intro to LC ( not CL) match.
Personally I thought it was quite adventurous of BBC Scotland and I suspect there has been the Cosgrove creative Channel 4 influence at work behind the scenes.
‘ How dare these people call me fat’ ‘ I demand to know who these people are’
‘How dare these people parody my illustrious managerial career’
Narcissism in middle aged men, a bad combination.
Problem with TRFC ,no sense of humour,never did have.Out with the old ,in with the new,still no charm,
Some things never change.
September 28, 2012 at 12:37
bogsdollox says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:12
Haven’t checked for a while, any movement on the Jarndyce v Jarndyce cases down south?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My learned friend thelawyer.com said in August that the trial was set for October but that date would now be used for a case management conference. My other friend Google has no further comment to make at this time.
I think its only fair if the sfa phone Brenda first and let her be the conduit for the statement release.
Keep at them Brenda. 😀
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:45
One of the primary duties of a journalist is to tell the truth to power. Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of the Indy debate, the Scottish Media is currently, with a very small number of exceptions, not fot for purpose, should Scotland become independent. That’s not the fault of any of the political parties, it is simply a damning indictment of the Scottish Media.
Oops double posted …damn phone..TD’s acepted.
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:45
chris shields @ 11:25
I can’t say I feel any pity for rennie. RTC said it best: naked self interest and fear of repercussions of telling the truth. You could put that in stock as the career eptiaph for so many of the players in the sorry saga.
========================================================================
No pity here either. MSM have made a bed that they will have to lie in.
rab @ 13:00
Cheers that would be nice 🙂 95 🙂
have the zombies devoured us all?????
Just discovered this little curio to share from Sky:
http://www.skymedia.co.uk/_downloads/1555/spl%202013%20(w).pdf
It’s the document sent out to advertisers to encourage spend during SPL games. Most interestingly is that the document was cached on google on 4th August! Considering some of the content, that that document was (and remains) still live after the liquidation event is rather odd.
Not the huddle malcontent
Inability to multi-task means the Ryder cup is taking preference until the 5pm SFA press release ( no laughing at the back)…
96 that’s double the original estimate 🙂 I know,
I know it’s a slow day and I don’t like golf 🙂
beeanos says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:49
It’s as much as I thought, if we want to twist things we could say will it did from criminal proceeds as part of the cash did belong to the Crown 🙂 so it was knicked and this was the first layer of the cash in a scam. I wish.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:26
0
0
Rate This
Just discovered this little curio to share from Sky:
http://www.skymedia.co.uk/_downloads/1555/spl%202013%20(w).pdf
It’s the document sent out to advertisers to encourage spend during SPL games. Most interestingly is that the document was cached on google on 4th August! Considering some of the content, that that document was (and remains) still live after the liquidation event is rather odd.
========================================================================
Just get page cannot be found message. Hope you saved or took a screen shot!
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:50
http://www.skymedia.co.uk/_downloads/1555/spl%202013%20(w).pdf
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Just get page cannot be found message. Hope you saved or took a screen shot!
========================================================================
don’t click the link, copy and paste it – the .pdf part is missing from the hyperlink posted
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:26
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:50
————————————————————————
Aye, same here. Any chance of putting the doc up on Imageshack or similar, Richard?
Nice to see (S)DM surviving on to the new board – although I prefer the original:
(-S)DM. ©
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:51
0
0
Rate This
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
September 28, 2012 at 14:50
http://www.skymedia.co.uk/_downloads/1555/spl%202013%20(w).pdf
========================================================================
Just get page cannot be found message. Hope you saved or took a screen shot!
========================================================================
don’t click the link, copy and paste it – the .pdf part is missing
========================================================================
Yup.Was just about to say that.
Land Action Scotland@landactionscot
“People come to me cos I’m combative & aggressive” Meet Jack Irvine, the PR behind @ScotLandEstates & @mountstuart http://goo.gl/GUlX9 nice
http://www.prweek.com/uk/features/1078626/Jack-Irvine—combative-crusader
“Scottish PR stalwart Jack Irvine muses: ‘People come to me because I’m combative and aggressive.’ He more than lives up to his boast.
The former News International editor is about to celebrate 20 years since the launch of the now international agency Media House, but still retains the beating heart of a tabloid grappler.
Irvine’s every conversation is peppered with the language of the red tops. Ending numerous tales from his past with the words ‘So I said “fuck you”‘, the pugnacious Glaswegian is as fearless and indiscreet as one would expect for a man who has represented some of the most controversial clients imaginable.
‘I was 17 and a half and I told the editor I thought his page one was shit,’ recalls the 62-year old of his first steps into the world of straight-talking tabloid journalism, as he tucks into scrambled eggs on toast in his local haunt, Browns in the City.
Within years he was working for the man he now describes as his idol, Rupert Murdoch, where the bust-ups became the stuff of tabloid legend.
He recalls an incident in which he demanded colour presses from Murdoch. ‘I said “we need them because we look shit compared to the Record”. I could see people turning white behind him,’ he smiles – adding that he got his presses, not to mention a nice bonus and a company car.
He relishes taking on the role of story-teller and is a natural raconteur full of roguish charm and biting humour.
His fearlessness is best evidenced by his client list, which includes Stagecoach founder Brian Souter’s ‘Keep The Clause’ campaign to retain Section 28, banning the ‘promotion’ of homosexuality by local authorities.
He has also represented Scottish landowners against the RSPB – ‘a politically motivated pain in the ass’ – and risked the wrath of animal rights activists after representing Huntingdon Life Sciences.
His latest crusade is a multi-billion-dollar Medicare fraud case against the largest US medical laboratory, Quest Diagnostics, as Media House has spread into New York and London.
For all his old-school relish, he remains ‘the consummate professional’, according to Telegraph Media Group chief executive Murdoch MacLennan. ‘For many years, if you were in serious difficulty north of the border, the first thing you would do was call for Jack,’ adds MacLennan. ‘Now he’s spreading his wings, and the competition should watch out, because Jack’s skills are second to none. He is a media giant, and should always be the first name on the list if you are in the mire. He’s a phenomenon.’
Media House came into being following a phone call from Michael Murphy – now global CEO of Grayling – who wanted Irvine’s help handling comms around a hostile takeover of Celtic Football Club. ‘That’s what we call crisis PR,’ Murphy told Irvine. ‘You can charge them £100 an hour.’
Within three months Irvine had earned more than he would have in a year at News International.
When PRWeek suggests cash is clearly a big motivation, he bites back: ‘I don’t know many people who get into PR to make the world a better place.’
Despite his achievements, he is quite comfortable remaining a niche player: ‘I was talking to someone who has an agency with 80 to 100 staff. Eight or more girls were off on maternity leave. I thought “for fuck’s sake”.’
He recalls having a dim view of PR people when he was a journalist. ‘I thought that the people I had met didn’t understand the media and were failed journalists or fluffy girlies. There’s been a profound change in the industry. The intellectual quality of people we employ now embarrasses me.’
There is a lesser-known side to Irvine too. Back in 1967, complete with long hair and kaftan, he resigned from the Glasgow Herald and headed to Bournemouth to take a job at the Western Gazette. But he also had an ulterior motive.
‘I was playing in a band. We’d moved down there. My partner was BA Robertson, who had a string of hits in the 60s. I did that for a year, then we had musical differences. It was hippy trippy stuff.’
Irvine continues to rock out in his personal time, owning a huge collection of electric guitars and listening to Biffy Clyro and the Foo Fighters as well as guitar gods Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck and Hank Marvin.
There is a brood of equally media-savvy operators following in his path. His son is a night editor at The Telegraph, while his daughter recently joined Haygarth. So could the old rogue soon be handing on the media baton and settling down to a life of guitar strumming at home? No chance.
‘I love what I do. I see the world. And my wife would kill me if I sat about the house.’
CV
1991 Executive chairman, Media House (now Media House International)
1991 Chief executive, Murray Media
1990 Managing director, News International Scotland
1987 Editor, The Scottish Sun
1971 Various roles, Daily Record
1970 Poole district reporter, Western Gazette
1967 Reporter, Glasgow Herald
JACK IRVINE’S TURNING POINTS – What was your biggest career break?
Meeting Kelvin MacKenzie and launching The Sun in Scotland.
Have you had a notable mentor?
Two (now departed) wise old owls at News International stand out.
Ken Donlan was the managing editor at The Sun and knew every Fleet Street dodge in the book. The other inspirational man was News International’s then deputy chairman, Sir Edward Pickering.
He had been Rupert Murdoch’s first editor and like Donlan knew where all the bodies were buried. They taught me the A-Z of newspaper survival techniques.
What advice would you give someone climbing the career ladder?
Have rich parents. If that fails it’s all down to hard work. When you are young it sometimes feels that you are going nowhere in a particular job but if you really graft you’ll be noticed eventually. Don’t put up with bullies.
What qualities do you prize in new recruits?
Intelligence. Motivation. Ambition. The ability to work in a team but also the ability to think for themselves. Failing that, an ass like Pippa’s.
“
scapaflow14 @ 15:09
Sounds like a chip off Murdoch’s block
Nice person – not
allan rennie now says to RTC he will defend his papers reporting of the debacle “face to face” with RTC. This is reaching leggo-esque levels of embarrassment from the DRs top sports man.
scapaflow14 says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:09
——————————————-
With a stage persona like that how could you fail. Comes across as a sexist dinosaur from the 60’s. Would fit in well with DCI Hunt from Life on Mars.
Goosygoosy
I have a vague memory of one of the “Liquidation experts” on Newsnight Scotland stating that CWs floating charge could not be enforced as he had acquired his money to pay off Lloyds from Ticketus. She was fairly adamant this was the case.
I would not know one end of a floating charge from another, even if it jumped at me, elbowed me in the face and got the all clear from officialdom….interested in your take on the validity of CW case.
campsiejoe says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:26
Jack’s not the devil, he’s just the guy who would nip into the offie to buy Auld Nick a pack of fags
scapaflow14 says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:09
‘roguish charm’ isn’t the phrase that’s coming to my mind.
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:28
allan rennie now says to RTC he will defend his papers reporting of the debacle “face to face” with RTC. This is reaching leggo-esque levels of embarrassment from the DRs top sports man.
__________________
Defending the DR `reporting` ? – Blimey
He could start with jabber`s little `deranged` spat a week past Monday – Good Grief
scapaflow14 says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:09
Rate This Land Action Scotland@landactionscot
“People come to me cos I’m combative & aggressive” Meet Jack Irvine, the PR behind @ScotLandEstates & @mountstuart http://goo.gl/GUlX9 nice ……
and RFC(IA)
_______________________________________________________________________
and how much did Jack give you for that, Scapa, ?
BTW, no pic? unforgiveable.
Re:
http://www.prweek.com/uk/features/1078626/Jack-Irvine—combative-crusader
There is a lesser-known side to Irvine too. Back in 1967, complete with long hair and kaftan, he resigned from the Glasgow Herald and headed to Bournemouth to take a job at the Western Gazette. But he also had an ulterior motive.
‘I was playing in a band. We’d moved down there. My partner was BA Robertson, who had a string of hits in the 60s. I did that for a year, then we had musical differences. It was hippy trippy stuff.’
—————-
BA Robertson would have been 11 years old in 1967.
His first album was in 1973 and first “hit was in 1979.
Source:Wikipedia
Make of that what you will 🙂
chancer67 says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:39
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..(Ghandi)
Ha Ha, you are not please trying to compare your ridiculous stance with that attributed to Ghandi ?
Next you will be comparing brenda’s posts with Ernest Hemigway.
Incoming…
Troll Alert as expected…
You know the drill…don’t 😉
manandboy says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:45
I find the chap quite repulsive, bl00tered’s point is well made. he is, unfortunately, good at what he does. The Scottish press, especially the tabloids, have never been that good, however, the advent of The Scottish Sun, led to a marked deterioation.
perrywhyte says:
allan rennie now says to RTC he will defend his papers reporting of the debacle “face to face” with RTC. This is reaching leggo-esque levels of embarrassment from the DRs top sports man
_________________________________
This would be for one reason only, so Rennie could “out” RTC immediately. This in oder to attempt to neautralise RTC who would have to go into hiding in fear of their life. Thereby getting revenge for the MSM and helping his Sevco masters
Allan Rennie @AllanRennie1
@rangerstaxcase Anonimity guaranteed. Face to face discussion on media, blogging and football. Think about it.
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:28
allan rennie now says to RTC he will defend his papers reporting of the debacle “face to face” with RTC. This is reaching leggo-esque levels of embarrassment from the DRs top sports man.
==============================
This would be like a skit from Alas Smith and Jones. Obviously Rennie would be the fat one 😀
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@AllanRennie1 In the meantime some critical analysis of the Sevco propaganda you are handed would not go amiss.
Fight, fight, fight 😉
RTC
It goes without saying that he would leek the material re your ID to someone who in turn would stick it on web and then the Retard would publish.
Unscrupulous t@@sers
mirrenman @ 15:53
I wouldn’t trust anything that someone from that rag, and others like it, says
RTC is a lot smarter than they think they are
The D*ily R*cord is now standing up against us deranged bloggers, and the boss himself RTC. Show’s what an impact RTC has had, and everyone else on here as well. Keep doing what we are doing is how I read it well done RTC and the FM, standing up against the PR machines with the million’s they have to influence.
On a side note well done Celtic for a sold out allocation tomorrow, A thank you to motherwell who stood up for integrity even though it could harm them financially. Kilmarnock you will not get the same I hope.
davis58 says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:47
chancer67 says:
September 28, 2012 at 12:39
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..(Ghandi)
Ha Ha, you are not please trying to compare your ridiculous stance with that attributed to Ghandi ?
Next you will be comparing brenda’s posts with Ernest Hemigway.
=========================================
Aah, I remember old Hemigway well. Up there amongst the greats, Julie Verne, Sir Arthur Conan Boyle and William Shakespire.
98 no phone call yet Rab 😉
Allan Rennie @AllanRennie1
@rangerstaxcase Anonimity guaranteed. Face to face discussion on media, blogging and football. Think about it.
==================
After all that has happened in the last 18+months, why would any sane person trust anyone from the Scottish MSM sports ‘profession’ ?
RTC probably ‘thought about it’ – for maybe a nanosecond. 😉
Tomtomaswell, @
On the ball tomtom. Spotted.
ekbhoy says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:33
Goosygoosy
I have a vague memory of one of the “Liquidation experts” on Newsnight Scotland stating that CWs floating charge could not be enforced as he had acquired his money to pay off Lloyds from Ticketus. She was fairly adamant this was the case.
I would not know one end of a floating charge from another, even if it jumped at me, elbowed me in the face and got the all clear from officialdom….interested in your take on the validity of CW case.
,,,,,,,,,,
ekbhoy
Your memory is correct although it would require a court case to resolve the issue
So if RFC were liquidated by D&P in May there would have been legal challenges to the CW floating charge ..by HMRC for sure
However
We are dealing with Spivs not people of integrity
These guys are experts in manipulating the law not only for legal scams but also to protect themselves from fellow Spivs
No Spiv is going to challenge another Spiv if they have just made a legally enforceable deal
So not only did CW convert his FC into real money by exiting the RFC Creditors List
He also removed the possibility of it being challenged by hostile Creditors
What he will have conceded is a reduction in the £27m he was claiming against RFC(IA)
StevieBC says: September 28, 2012 at 16:18
Allan Rennie @AllanRennie1
@rangerstaxcase Anonimity guaranteed. Face to face discussion on media, blogging and football. Think about it.
==================
After all that has happened in the last 18+months, why would any sane person trust anyone from the Scottish MSM sports ‘profession’ ? RTC probably ‘thought about it’ – for maybe a nanosecond.
If RTC wants a proxy, I’m happy to put myself forward….:)
Davis,
I doubt anyone is comparing this fight to Ghandi’s struggle (btw do you HAVE to be so literal?), but the quote is valid and is what’s happened/happening.
RTC was ignored by MSM for a long time, shame that.
CW laughed at RTC (99% is crap”).
Now the MSM is looking to fight (okay, debate) with RTC……………roll on the winning!!
incredibleadamspark says:
September 28, 2012 at 11:59
That example of the discharge that spouts from the Daily Rectum actually made me feel quite queasy.
kbhoy says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:33
Goosygoosy
I have a vague memory of one of the “Liquidation experts” on Newsnight Scotland stating that CWs floating charge could not be enforced as he had acquired his money to pay off Lloyds from Ticketus. She was fairly adamant this was the case.
____________________________________________________________________________
The so called expert on newsnight was a woman, who’s name I can’t recall, but she was talking absolute gibberish. She said no money had changed hands between CW and Lloyds for there to be a FC. Lloyds held the FC, CW borrowed the money against future season tickets to pay the £18m debt to Lloyds from Ticketus. He then held the floating charge. I don’t know what’s happened with it since then, but if I was a betting man I would wager that CW still has the floating charge tucked away somewhere with Ticketus waiting in the wings.
Rennie doing a bit of bluff-calling, methinks. Canny, RTC. Could be shaping up for a bit of a discrediting attempt.
The tweety conversation could easily be twisted by Lunchtime O’Booze into “your Super Soaraway DR (shurely shome mishtake) asked RTC to put his version of the truth into print, but he backed off and wasn’t willing to discuss etc etc.”
Quarter to five, then.
Far’s the SFA statement?
Bunch of gonks. It’d better be nuclear, or they’re just going to look stupid(er).
SFA Statement due on 31st June
there’s one for the old skool RTC kiddies!
should RTC take up the offer/challenge (face to face – bad idea methinks) … why not voice to voice on the phone-in(s) …. ??? …. ayes/naws
perrywhyte says:
September 28, 2012 at 15:28
How can you defend the indefensible?