Good Morning,
In the last week, we have seen a number of strange occurrences in Scottish Football, which if taken together might just point to a very different land than the one we were lead to believe we live in just two short years ago.
First of all there was the report from a firm of well known accountants which pronounced that a significant number of Scottish Football Clubs had, in fact, sold more season tickets for this coming season than they had in the course of the last several years.
Then we had the spectacle of the National team travelling to Wembley and playing very well AND being cheered on by a very large travelling support who appear to have been full of fun and who acquitted themselves well in the big smoke.
This morning I read that today’s match at Pittodrie is a sell out — with the old stadium being packed to the rafters for the visit of Celtic. This is the first time that Aberdeen have been able to sell out the fixture for some 6 years!
Not only that, various Celtic supporting websites have lead with articles saying that the return of a strong Aberdeen and Dundee United are to be welcomed– in fact not only welcomed but positively wished for.
In contrast, stories abound about the in fighting on the Ibrox Board. There are surreptitious share dealings and all sorts of company jockeying being deployed by the rival factions who are trying to gain control of The Rangers. Further, there is the suggestion from some well informed parties that not only will Ibrox and the Albion be sold and leased back to the club to generate much needed immediate cash, but that Murray Park has been sold off completely and will no longer be available to The Rangers for any purpose whatsoever!
Clearly, there are big troubles at the club which will not assist in the stated intention of rising to the very top in Scottish Football.
In between all of this, the debate goes on about Campbell Ogilvie, Press manipulation, the correspondence between Media House and the SFA, and between The SFA and Ibrox re the relationship between Charlie Green and Craig Whyte and so on.
Standing with my business hat on, I looked at all of this and wondered what it all meant, and pretty quickly reached the conclusion that we are now in a time of supreme opportunity for some of the clubs in Scottish Football—- particularly Aberdeen FC.
There is a view abroad, that in the absence of the “Strong Rangers” that Celtic Football Club will win the SPFL title for almost evermore — or at least until they are toppled from the top spot by the rise of a strong Rangers club somewhere towards the end of this decade or early in the next– because we are assured that they will be back– in one form or another– in a rather Arnold Schwarzenegger like fashion.
That return or initial rise if you like– its timing and its manner— is dependent on a number of things– not least the exit strategy of Charlie Green and his cohorts.
If it is true that The Rangers are going to part company with Ibrox and the Albion, that they have taken on a loan of funds which attract a rate of interest that amounts to 15% per annum, and that there are set figures for buying the old ( and decaying ) stadium back any time soon, and that they have yet again hawked the season ticket money, then the already flawed Ibrox business plan is burdened even more by interest and rent payments of an additional £3M per annum and rising!
It should also be noted that the accounts for old co from the mid naughties onwards boasted that season ticket sales, merchandising, corporate hospitality and so on had reached unprecedented levels—- but—- the club still did not make an operating profit without strange internals transactions such as the repurchase of media rights which added £15M on to the P&L’s AND the sale of Jean Alain Boomsong!
Accordingly, the current position will not make for good financial reading.
So– let’s presume that in the current climate Celtic are out of sight and will always be champions for ever and a day. What do the rest of the clubs say in the absence of the Ibrox club without whom they have been told they will perish?
Well, If I were in charge of Aberdeen FC I would look out across a city with an inherent population of some 220,000 souls sitting in a county which takes the population up by another 40,000 or so. I would note that the compact city also houses two universities and a number of colleges — all of which attract visitors to the city— and that its position as the oil capital of Europe also draws in a substantial number of itinerant workers.
Further, personal knowledge shows that many who studied at Aberdeen University or Robert Gordon’s in the 80’s left the city as Aberdeen FC fans and no matter where they have ended up in life they still make the journey back to Pittodrie when they can– especially in good times!
Alas, however, Aberdeen has not enjoyed ” Good Times” of late— in fact not really since ……….. the arrival of David Murray at Ibrox!
If you cast your mind back to the pre Murray era, Aberdeen were a force not only in Scotland but Europe as the recent nostalgia re Gothenburg has reminded us.
The city has an economic micro climate which suggests that it can ride economic hardship better than most and so all things considered this current period provides a great opportunity for the Dons.
Unlike Dundee United, Hearts, and Hibs, Aberdeen FC sits in a large one team conurbation and should be on the doorstep of a populace which can fill Pittodrie every single week …… IF that fan base can be motivated.
And there lies the rub– how do you get a notoriously fickle fan base out of the armchair and into the stadium?
The late Bob Crampsey once described Pittodrie by saying ” And there are the masses of Aberdeen fans, masquerading as rows and rows of Empty seats!” yet in their heydey an Aberdeen crowd on a visit to Glasgow were among the noisiest– and to this football fans eyes — the scariest ( in a good sense ) supports to be seen.
Well, at this juncture, Derek McInnes and team need only look at every other football club in the land ( bar Celtic ) and determine that come next May those others will be below them in the league. If Aberdeen maintain a strong league run keeping everyone behind them then there is the possibility of a huge revenue swing in favour of the Dons– such a swing that would put them in an even stronger position for the following year.
Further, Aberdeen are a European name. Perhaps a European name from yesteryear and not the recent past, but the pedigree is there and as such there will be those who remember the heady European Nights both home and away. Reviving those memories and that reputation– at least to an extent– is not beyond the club, and with no disrespect to Motherwell and St Johnstone both of whom are liable to lose key players or even a manager between seasons, Aberdeen may just be of a size to consolidate each year rather than scramble to maintain the momentum of one good season which comes along every now and then.
Financial management and football rewards can go hand in hand when combined properly, and of all the clubs in Scotland who can benefit from a level playing field in terms of proper football governance, Aberdeen FC are uniquely placed in my opinion.
That is not so say that The Arabs, or the Hibees or anyone else cannot benefit– on the contrary— but the Dons are the most obvious candidates in terms of potential structure to really motor forward and regain a by gone status.
Such a situation, and the recognition of that potential, should be borne in mind by all at Celtic Football Club, as last year they struggled for a period in the league while they concentrated on their European exploits. If Celtic want to go further and further in Europe ( and why shouldn’t they ) they will have to be wary of any club which is capable of reigniting its fortunes from a lowly position or a position of having to look back at glory and potential glory rather than looking forward.
Further, with the way things are being organised at Ibrox, there is absolutely no guarantee ( some would say likelihood ) that an eventual challenge to a perceived dominance by Celtic will come from that quarter, and life in the top flight for any returning Rangers could prove very difficult if the likes of Aberdeen get their act together and start to produce the type of home grown team of old.
For now, I sense a degree of optimism about the Dons– not just on the playing front either. They have a fan base, they have a business model and a good young manager, and any comparative business exercise must conclude that they have every chance of rising above most of their rivals in the league, in terms of revenue, in terms of brand development and business expansion.
If I were an Aberdeen fan I would like to think positive and be ambitious in this climate, whilst at the same time casting an eye back to the days when they were top of the tree.
As one Aberdeen supporting ( but now Edinburgh based ) friend put it to me:
” Ah, those were the days my friend, those were the days……………”
FIFA says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:42 pm
__________________________________
True enough regarding the anticipated dispensing of justice. Rangers, new and old have become pretty adept at dodging bullets. BTC, despite not an outright victory, was exponentially better than expected for them. Ditto LNS in terms of justice if not verdict. Leapfrogging other aspirants to league membership. Finding that threads are being pulled in every which way to accelerate the process of the “return” to the top.
If we have learnt any lessons from this sorry saga, it is this;
The Ultimate Outcome will be decided by a cartel of (delusional) self-interested clubs who refuse, despite compelling evidence, to accept that NO SINGLE CLUB is an indispensable component of the football setup.
There is a mantra on FF and elsewhere in the Bearosphere that other clubs and their fans are “self-loathing”.
Not too far away I would guess from the evident lack of self regard inherent in the view that everyone needs Rangers.
Let’s be clear about this. At this time last year, Rangers were powerless to influence their own situation. The club had been put into liquidation and consequently were no longer members of the SFA, SPL or SFL.
Those who had the power to influence their situation, charitably in my view, threw them a lifebelt, against all precedent, and in contravention of the SFA’s own rules.
Now that is no heinous crime worthy of imprisonment, but it shines a light on the clubs’ overarching priority – finance – to the detriment of the most fundamental principle enshrined in all sport, the rules.
It is impossible therefore to escape the conclusion that since finance trumps rules, the basic prerequisite which defines Scottish Football as a sport no longer exists.
For me this is not some human rights issue. There are WAY more important things in the world than this, but for the purposes of clarity and accuracy, let’s not call this shambles sport. It’s a sordid wee closed-shop money making scam exploits its fans’ loyalty (a loyalty it despises and mocks); which cares nothing for sporting principles, fairness or justice.
The market, not the rules of the game have sovereignty here, so no amount of popcorn, jelly and ice-cream can remove the taste that accompanies the theft of the sport I used to love.
Tif Finn says:
August 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm
————————————–
Shocked to see that photograph.
Traynor has aged 40 years.
The pressure must be getting to him.
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/230813-Airdrie-v-Rangers/G0000IpdQqjGg9kA/I0000dyqZSMH1XSs/C0000fKmWUmT9Awk
Danish Pastry says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:23 pm
9 0 Rate This
Fans Fury?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/fans-fury-as-rangers-rehire-pr-firm-for-power-fight.21955042
————————————————————————————
From the article above.
“The three organisations are saddened to hear of the return of Media House to Ibrox,” said a statement by the Rangers Supporters Trust, the Assembly and the Association, “particularly considering their failure to defend the club and the fans during their previous tenure, despite being hired for that purpose.
You could not make this up. JI and the rest of MH must be thinking what else do they want us to print!!
Some folk are just hard to please.
Brenda I would also like to know what exactly was said on SSB so I can contact them with my complaint. As you say funny no link to it.
That photie of Traynor…
Immediate reaction : looks like he is morphing into Danny de Vito’s character in the Batman movie – The Penguin!
…and that childish observation will be my valuable input to the blog today, thankyou… 🙄
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Thanks for that Brenda. Can you tell me what he said so that I can send my email too. Anyone know who the head honcho at Radio Clyde is?
Radiccio says:
August 25, 2013 at 9:18 am
Woah there soldier! I never gave an opinion the Tax Schemes in my reply to you, so don’t assume to know my views. That’s not what I was replying to.
===============================================
Okay then. The rest of your reply was decent and written in the spirit of this forum. I will now offer you the chance to comment on the fact that Rangers in 2003 had players in their team paid under a tax avoidance scheme accepted beyond all doubt to be illegal. I will be careful not to make assumptions on what you think. What I think is Rangers should have that title removed from the record.
As an Ayr fan it sticks in the throat to know the team that beat us 4-0 in the League Cup final the year before was paid for in a way that at best defies sporting fairness and at worst by blatant flaunting of the rules.
I’m not one of the ones who think that we should be given the trophy as the minute this team play any cup game in any round the tournament becomes pointless were they to go on to win it.
Re-the comments allegedly made on Radio Clyde yesterday (which I did not hear). A couple of years ago that station had to make a live apology for Gordon Dalziel referring to his local Chinese takeaway by a name which used to be widely used, but in recent years has been recognised as offensive to the Chinese community.
andygraham.66 says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:31 pm
‘when they come back’
I did really means the fans, as I am fully aware and champion the whole New club scenario, but unfortunately the fans are one and the same and Tupe’d over in every single way from old to new.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Actually the new club’s ST sale for its first season was missing 9,000 season ticket holders from the final season of the liquidated club/company who didn’t renew. So approx a quarter of fans didn’t Tupe over. That is quite a ‘churn’ and I don’t know for certain what the reason was although I have my own theories.
The new ST holders who replaced them may of course have the ethos that you refer to but again I have no actual first hand knowledge of that.
Carntyne Riddrie says:
August 25, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Tif Finn says:
August 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm
————————————–
Shocked to see that photograph. Traynor has aged 40 years. The pressure must be getting to him.
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/230813-Airdrie-v-Rangers/G0000IpdQqjGg9kA/I0000dyqZSMH1XSs/C0000fKmWUmT9Awk
======================================================
It’s worth looking at the other pics of the Mather/Traynor ‘confrontation’ taken by Vass. That is one very heavy conversation and Traynor is most definitely not a happy bear 🙁
TSFM says:
August 25, 2013 at 1:16 pm
I see you are getting as sick of it all as I am.
As an industry I accept football is interdependent, which means clubs have to stick together or there will be no opposition to play, but not at the expense of the foundations on which the industry is built and that is sport.
Sport depends on rules and if rules are ignored or twisted and we all know now without a shadow of a doubt that they have been, then those responsible eat away at the very foundations of their own industry like wolves licking their own blood on wooden stakes set in the ground..
In Jim Traynor there is man who scorned the idea of sporting merit and he is now the PR man for a club that has scorned it before liquidation and whose spirit continues to scorn it afterwards.
Tom English picks out this scorn in his article drawing comparisons between Black and Sandaza. All that matters is what suits Rangers and to hear Chick Young (who might have the excuse is he is not the deepest of thinkers as opposed to being morally bereft) trying to defend Black of the more serious charge of betting in a game in which he is participating, by saying bookmakers sponsor football, well if that is the standard of Scotland’s moral compass then all directions point to Hell. Just who ARE these people like Traynor, Young and McCoist?
But what option do we have but to continue to fight it? The alternative is to stop supporting my club and I am not yet ready to give up on them.
However slowly but surely Charlotte’s skirt is being lifted and what lies under will demand the removal of Campbell Ogilvie and a public enquiry into how football has failed to govern itself and if that upsets UEFA or FIFA, then by failing to ensure their own rules have been applied in Scotland they have brought it on themselves.
What gets me is the silence of the current government AND opposition. Do they think football is part of the social fabric of Scottish society or that only Rangers are part of that social fabric?
Has anyone in opposition tabled that question to the First Minister?
Do they all think tackling this issue of football corruption and the SFA is a vote loser because of the number of voters with an attachment to Rangers?
But this is no longer about Rangers, it is about the kind of society we want to be part of in Scotland, be that an independent Scotland or devolved. Is this as good as it gets? Corruption swept under the table on the back of political expediency?
Or are we facing the Einstein issue that the mindset that created the problem permeates Scottish society from top to bottom and only external intervention by a different mindset can save us from ourselves?
At the book launch of Bigotry, Football and Scotland, Dr John Kelly made the point that in other areas of public debate, the background of the person making the point is not held against them to the degree that anyone speaking out against sectariansim in Scotland faces. Celtic supporters with a bit of business acumen and noose are either Rangers haters or obsessed with Rangers.
The very idea that they might be attempting to reach a higher goal i.e saving our game (and Rangers as honest participants) as opposed to attacking Rangers, simply does not compute. Look at the comments below Tom English’s article.
This goes well beyond football now. It is about right thinking and wrong thinking.
Do you want to know how to tell one from the other?
Look at the fruits of each..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-scottish-footballers-continue-break-2218956
Amazing the Record piece reveals players who actually post their football betting slips on their social media accounts and comment on whether their line is up or down.
I now beginning to wonder whether this whole mess is even more pernicious than just match fixing and breaking of rules.
What is going through my head is ‘product placement’ which takes place on all sort of sites where it’s not straightforward advertising but more subtle by having goods promoted by including them in films, pics or even a mention. Of course there is a payment for this especially with celebs and those with large followings.
I wonder if the betting companies are shelling out to players who in effect ‘advertise’ individual companies by displaying their betting slips?
And the players’ union wants a review – considering they go round all the clubs and presumably know the extent of the problem why haven’t they brought their concerns to the attention of the SFA previously or have they and been ignored.
I believe they have only acted because a lot of their members are now potentially in jeopardy. Of course the union has a duty to represent its members’ interests and, in particuar, those who have a gambling addiction.
But there appears to be no one looking out for the fans and their simple expectation that the simple rule of ‘No Gambling’ will be applied. We don’t want a raft of new rules that will be impossible to enforce – we want a straight game. Any footballer who doesn’t want to give-up gambling has a simple choice: Get a new job.
For those who have an illness then, as with any addiction, there are well-proven schemes in place to support an addict as long as they are prepared to make an effort. However, footballers are no different from any other employee with an addiction – eventually the warnings, disciplinary procedures and attempts at a ‘cure’ can fail for some and they end-up losing their job.
People have been discussing the likelihood of ‘The Rangers’ going into administration and I have been wondering why it is possible for a club in administration to be promoted?
Why should a team who adopts a financial policy geared to forcing their own players to take wage cuts and ensuring local businesses and other clubs lose money be rewarded by promotion?
It seems so strange.
Another myth currently doing the rounds is that Celtic have over £40M from selling players and CL money. If I take both of these pots of money one at a time and explore these claims. As a fan I would like to think that a large slice of the Wanyama fees has been paid up front given the recent financial difficulties that Southampton have had. and the rest will be paid in instalments over two or three years. It will be the same for Hooper and Wilson.
Now don’t get me wrong I still believe that there has been more than £13M directly been brought into Celtic.
As for the CL money well I would assume that there are travel, and accommodation costs. Then there is bonuses for playing and coaching staff and possibly even non coaching staff. I would reckon that bonuses have possibly taken the best part of £5M alone out of the pot. There will also be the old thorny issue of tax on earnings although I don’t know how much this will be. Added to this the £100 pounds reduction in season tickets, which cost £4M, and I think there is an awful lot less than £20M in the kitty.
Now all the European money does seem to discount ticket prices which should bump the figures up again but I think that there is probably somewhere in the region of £23M overall made its way into Celtic’s bank account and given that without group stages they are a loss making business then some of that money will have to go to service an on going shortfall in revenue.
The media demand that this money is spent if only to give them something to write about but give no care to what these players that are bought are actually paid with for the duration of their contracts if the entire windfall is spent purchasing them.
It makes a good headline to scream ‘£40M and still won’t spend a penny’ than actually analyse figures and report accurately. But then again accurately analysing figures is not what the media do well as we know from recent history.
In conclusion I still realise that the revenue Celtic received is, in Scottish terms, a massive amount of money but I don’t think that the figure is as large as the media have reported.
I also recognise that this is not a Celtic forum but I feel the misreporting of this figure is another blemish on the media where headlines are not a true reflection on reality.
It is worth noting that ICT brought a really decent sized support to Celtic Park yesterday. Probably the biggest I’ve seen since THAT night! When you see other things like how huge a travelling support Hearts are carrying the Armageddon predictions just look more stupid by the day.
Re-hiring Jack is yet another stupid move in the Numbnuts’ Shuffle. Why do the board feel the need, at great expense, to have someone explain the position they’ve got themselves into? What are they asking Jack to do? Smear other clubs?, give up the dirt(I’m sure there isn’t any) on Jim McColl?, Issue billionairesque press releases?, Threaten non-compliant media outlets?
Why don’t they release the accounts showing a healthy bank balance and a forward plan of expenditure, thereby giving their critics the scunner?
PR ‘an opportunity to reflect, restructure one’s outlook, drastically reduce expenditure and establish a routine lifestyle with the opportunity for further education’
Real world, the jail.
Whilst a lot of the discussions on this board are very instructive and enlightening, across such varied subjects such as the West of Scotland education system, unfortunately the thrust of the investigations into the SMSM and their dealings with the affairs of the various incarnations of “Rangers” and the SFA are at risk of being thrown out with the bath water.
Although we criticise the current sports reporters they are not, and never will be, investigative journalists. To quote professor Hugo de Burgh “An investigative journalist is a man or woman whose profession it is to discover the truth and to identify lapses from it in whatever media may be available. The act of doing this generally is called investigative journalism and is distinct from apparently similar work done by police, lawyers, auditors, and regulatory bodies in that it is not limited as to target, not legally founded and closely connected to publicity.” I would suggest that there are people on this site who fulfil that definition in a far better way than our current crop of sports journalists except they are not doing it as their profession. So keep up that good work, it will bear fruit eventually.
May I end my admonition/rant by quoting from the film “All the President’s Men” : “Follow the money”.
Giovanni. No not that one. And no, I’m not Mark Felt either as he’s passed away.
Jean7brodie @ 1:59
It was along the lines of when he was at school a teacher always said to him that he should be ‘over the wall’ he said he never knew what the teacher meant , but a few weeks ago he discoverd that next door to his school ie ‘over the wall’ was a special needs school ???? I’m sorry if I am going on about this but I cannot for the life of me see what can possibly be funny about this???? The rest of the panel laughed along 😥
Close of play at 4.40pm ? Shurely some mistake?
On comes Brenda at 6.22pm.
Must have been rain.
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Many thanks Brenda. I have already contacted Lorraine Herbison in respect of GD. I will now pursue the matter.
Manandboy
??
davythelotion says:
August 25, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Why don’t they release the accounts showing a healthy bank balance and a forward plan of expenditure, thereby giving their critics the scunner?
=====================================================
That would be the simplest way of clearing up any ‘communications’ problems re-the club’s financial position. I guess a smear campaign is the next best way.
jean7brodie says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:36 pm
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Many thanks Brenda. I have already contacted Lorraine Herbison in respect of GD. I will now pursue the matter.
_________________________________________________________________________________
I’d be interested to know exactly what Gordon Dalziel said on the Radio. He’s certainly not the sharpest mind out there. Can you give us a direct quote?
incredibleadamspark @ 7.28pm
I cannot give you a direct quote but my post at 6.22pm this evening covers roughly what he said, unfortunately the podcast of yesterday’s SSB is not available ( can’t think why ) 😕
Giovanni says:
August 25, 2013 at 4:40 pm
Although we criticise the current sports reporters they are not, and never will be, investigative journalists.
=======================================================================
I wonder if you may have missed the point. It has been clear for some time that editorial decisions were taken at the start that the Rangers ‘story’ would be handled by sports journalists and not by investigative reporters or even specialists such as business reporters.
There is possibly one or two sports journos in Scotland capable of actually understanding and unravelling the story. However they are heavily conflicted by the nature of the football industry because, of course, sports journos in Scotland are really footie reporters.
If a footie reporter gets a juicy story about a player or manager then they don’t do the story themself – they hand it to the news department and a reporter will do it. This retains deniability for the sports journo and usually prevents them from getting banned. Of course sometimes football club managements leak stories about players they want to ‘manage’ out the door or a bench warmer wants to remove or distract an ‘obstacle’ to them getting a start so rats on a team mate.
The Rangers story has been largely left with footie reporters who have almost without exception done no investigation but carried press releases from clubs or PR spinners or individuals. What has come out through the sports journos has been meant to come out by at least one side. I struggle to think of anything which has been truly uncovered.
And that’s why sports journos were handed the story – their editors knew that they were basically incapable of finding anything that would upset the apple cart – it really is that simple.
In recent years there are almost zilch investigative reporters left mainly because they cost a lot of money as their stories take time and, for various reasons, so many stories they write just don’t make it into print. As circulation falls and staffs are cut to the bone then investigation has, by and large, gone out the window and the media is left with a whole swatch of staff with little experience who are chained to their desk copying and pasting PR copy are wire copy into their publication. Soul destroying stuff and managers don’t want lawyers’ letters and the grief and expense they bring.
So if they are going to have a go at someone it’s usually someone who won’t be able to hit back and most certainly not someone lawyered-up with a PR company on a retainer and the cash and clout to be dangerous. Then there is the whole Establishment connection which is the real story but I see little chance of that being tackled by the SMSM.
So although I try to do what investigation I can I’m afraid that from time to time I do indulge in a bit of light diversion otherwise the enormity of the task of attempting to expose the weight of corruption bearing down on Scots in general as well as in football would actually be depressing 😥
Brenda your 6.22 post this evening?
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:36 pm
incredibleadamspark @ 7.28pm
I cannot give you a direct quote but my post at 6.22pm this evening covers roughly what he said, unfortunately the podcast of yesterday’s SSB is not available ( can’t think why )
_________________________________________________________________________________
You’re post doesn’t seem to be there. Also I don’t listen to Clyde but when is the repeat of the show usually available to listen to? I’ve read people on here looking for an email address to complain about something they haven’t heard yet and that makes me a bit uneasy.
Valentinesclown 😥
Sorry it’s gone ?? Deleted another post must have deleted that too sorry it said
It was along the lines of when he (GD) was at school a teacher always used to say to him that he should be ‘over the wall’ he said he never knew what the teacher meant but he recently discovered that next door to his school ie ‘over the wall’ was a special needs school???? I am sorry I am going on about this but I cannot for the life of me see what is funny about a special needs school?? The sad thing is the rest of the panel laughed along 😥 he absolutely has to go.
incredibleadamspark
I am unable to post a link and find it a bit strange that the podcast isn’t available, you can usually listen to the podcast a couple of hours after the show??????? Someone may have the link but I appreciate your uneasiness but he did say it and I have been told he apologised at half time (admitting guilt?) but I did not hear that as I had stopped listening in disgust at his behaviour and that of the rest of the panel 😥
incredibleadamspark says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm
If Brenda reported that he said it I believe her. Why would she lie/make it up? I have contacted Lorraine Herbison asking her about it. Where is the problem with this?
Cheers jean I can assure I am not making it up 🙁
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:53 pm
4 0 Rate This
Valentinesclown 😥
Sorry it’s gone ?? Deleted another post must have deleted that too sorry it said
It was along the lines of when he (GD) was at school a teacher always used to say to him that he should be ‘over the wall’ he said he never knew what the teacher meant but he recently discovered that next door to his school ie ‘over the wall’ was a special needs school???? I am sorry I am going on about this but I cannot for the life of me see what is funny about a special needs
school?? The sad thing is the rest of the panel laughed along 😥 he absolutely has to go.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
You are correct to mention this. I have also contacted Lorraine Herbison to inform her that these kind of comments are not acceptable and it is no laughing matter. Their viewing figures will certainly be getting even lower and maybe like the other football phone in on Real radio it may become extinct. Then I for one will laugh hysterically.
If a radio company has deliberately not posted a replay of this show (which is their usual practice I believe) because of something an idiot said live on air then they are as bad if not worse than the idiot who said it.
Off the top of my head I can think of Glenn Hoddle, Ron Atkinson, Andy Gray and Rodney Marsh who lost their jobs as a direct result of things they said.
Do these people really believe that racism, sexism, making fun of the disabled and of natural disasters are really acceptable in a modern society. They are in a privileged permission, talking about sport and getting well paid for doing it. There is no excuse for them using it as a platform for their disgraceful opinions or behaviour.
jean7brodie says:
August 25, 2013 at 8:01 pm
incredibleadamspark says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm
If Brenda reported that he said it I believe her. Why would she lie/make it up? I have contacted Lorraine Herbison asking her about it. Where is the problem with this?
_________________________________________________________________________________
I’m not suggesting she lied/made it up. I agree with you; she has no reason to but with the greatest of respect and with no offense intended, it’s difficult to be 100% sure of something like this until you hear it for yourself and this is especially true if you are going to complain about it. You might hear it differently or there might context which you didn’t know about or you could hear it and not find it that offensive.
Tif Finn says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:15 am
fergussingstheblues says:
August 25, 2013 at 1:48 am
It worth remembering that there was a stage that English clubs were banned from competing in Europe. Initially that was an indefinite ban so no-one knew when they would be allowed back in. It is worth also bearing in mind that a footballers peak is a fairly short time, so a player at say 27 was looking at the possibility of never playing in the World’s top club competitions.
Add to that the fact that Rangers were willing to pay the same wages as were available in England, and were putting a squad together to compete and win in Europe it is understandable why players were keen to make the move to Scotland.
——————————————————————
Good point Tif Finn, I’d forgotten about that.
@ Brenda
I heard GD apologise at H/T and was wondering why he was apologising as I didn’t tune in until H/T, but even then the panel merely moved straight on to another topic without as much as an explanation as to why GD had made such an appalling comment. But then GD was always going to end up in trouble he has been bordering on it for some time on SSB. He is a total embarrassment and talks utter nonsense.
Hell mend SSB also if that was the best pundit they could get, it says a lot about them, and the calibre of their show, there’s not one decent pundit amongst them.
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:53 pm
No wishing to spoil anyone’s righteous indignation, the Saturday SSB is not always posted. I’ve missed it on the odd occasion and it was not made available. They tend to talk most of the time amongst themselves and less to the public on Saturdays.
Sounds like Gordon Dalziel was laughing at his lack of understanding what “over the wall” meant rather than what was over the wall. Gordon Dalziel may be many things but I do not believe he would find anything funny about Special Needs. You might find he has done work with Special Needs kids, worth checking.
I’m confused can someone help,Neil Faskin in the herald today reported the following
I will give it as printed from paragraph 3
quoting
“Should the directors feel the need to employ an outside agency,over the head of THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS,to defend their personal positions in the current debate over the future of the club,they should do so at their own expense”.
The move comes after the board claimed they had saved money by persuading shareholders who requisitioned a General Meeting[not an EGM?] to oust 3 Directors,and replace them with 2 others,to allow their resolutions to be voted on at the annual general meeting instead .
your help in understanding this will be much appreciated ,I have been sniffing mushroom coloured emulsion all day and I think it might have gone off
@beatipacificiscotia
Disagree with you on that one, the man is a joke, he thinks he is a wisecrack comedian, whose humour is beyond anything but funny. Start making excuses for him and then we can start making excuses for every other idiot who has had a slip of the tongue moment. Am also sure Glen Hoddle had done some sort of charity work for special needs just before his outrageous comments, but that didn’t make his comments any less repulsive.
beatipacificiscotia @ 8.32pm
I’m afraid I cannot agree with you on GD that he was laughing at,himself ! This is not the first time he has said something inappropriate, but this particular incident sickened me, if he has helped special needs charities in the past I doubt they will seek his help in the future
As for the podcast???? I usually listen on a Saturday afternoon and therefore haven’t noticed if the put it up or not but on occasion have listened to certain parts again just to check I haven’t been hearing things!!! GD apologised at half time for his comments ……. Admission of guilt or was he told to??? We will probably never know, hopefully he won’t be there to talk like this again.
beatipacificiscotia
So you actualy heard the comments along with other listeners at the live broadcast
patsymcd1888 says:
August 25, 2013 at 8:49 pm
Well said Patsy. It starts with jokes…
FIFA says:
August 25, 2013 at 8:54 pm
Didn’t hear it, didn’t claim to, just letting people know the podcast is not always made available. I have it as one of my favourites and they are automatically downloaded to my phone. I’ve notice that Saturday shows are hit and miss for making it to podcast.
Gordon Dalziel is a fud, no doubt, but I stick by that I don’t believe he would find anything funny about Special Needs.
justshatered says:
August 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm
Re : Celtic and money ….
First: it will be in the accounts within a year!!
Second:Is that the same journalists who could not do rangers finances talking celtic and hmfc finances.
Log time lurker, here and elsewhere…… much respect to all those who spend so much time enlightening me with information on this blog.
The earlier view about eurpoa/champoins league money is reasonably close.
This was the importance of the celtic v cliftonville match, gauranteed a CL play-off or EL play-off.
The huge importance of celtic v elfsborg was it gauranteed a minimum of an EL group with a chance for a CL group.
I mix with many disparate football fans, up and down the leagues, many continue to follow their own teams but are bored with the sevco situation and are in the dark re charllotte fakes stuff. I do find this quite astonishing.
The key point for me is the rangers fans could and SHOULD have bought the club off the administrators, but did not wish to. Neither did a “billionaire” who would buy and then get paid back ala the HMFC administration bid. Fundamentally those same fans have now paid two sets of season tickets and share issue money and still do not own the assets of rangers football club. It is self evident that a genuine fans bid was never organised because the the spivs wanted to manipulate the admnistration to continue the asset stripping and getting money in a scheme better than a ponzi scheme, and the SMSM helped them all the way, the fans fell for it, helped by the fan organisations which were being manipulated.
I find the hearts position interesting, I do honestly think the UBIG an UKIO liquidators will act in the best interests of the UBIG and UKIO creditors. I think that this NOT be a CVA and will be a prolonged asset sale and HMFC losing ownership of tynecastle, unless they can buy it and all the bits on the open market. Same with the “SFA membership” and “SPFL share”
Anyway back to watching barca….
PS: editted statement about fans and spivs second last paragraph!
No point in trying to convince you then ….. beatipacificiscotia …….. But He DID make fun of a Special Needs school, no doubts 😥 why did he apologise if he was laughing at himself?
Ok ,I think that most would agree that this programme ,well in its present format and panel is now beyond the realms of a decent chat/phone in show and has been for a long time ,at least Real Radio had the sense to pull their show ,and I did not listen to it in its final year but I thought Roughy was a decent tongue in cheek guy,the fault here is surely with the producers of Clyde to allow such a tawdry show to continue,their other programmes are a shambles and what was once a flagship radio station is now only fit for a noise in the background of a busy store ,[customer ,whats that I can here,staff member ,oh thats our relaxing squirrel sounds,its unique to our Glasgow stores ].
Quite how much did Mr Charles and his consortium actually invest?
Why were Paul Murray and the Blue Knights prevented from buying Rangers?
It’s these two core lies that need to be disassembled, as they are foundations of the whole charade, Jack Irvine or no Jack Irvine.
Brenda
I heard the comments of GD on the radio on Saturday afternoon and was disgusted with his remarks and the response of the panel with the exception of JD who I believe said “dear me” which I took to indicate he was not pleased. This may account for the comment later by GD along the lines of “I did not mean to offend anyone” hardly a heartfelt apology.
Well said FIFA
JLeeHooker says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:22 am
19 18 Rate This
toby says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:01 am
It was the Killie fans who came up with what, for me is the best ever football chant. It was about the time Andy Goram missed a game for Scotland after being diagnosed with schizophrenia.
” Two Andy Gorams, there’s only two Andy Gorams”
Absolute classic 😆
Can we put this myth to bed please.
Morton fans were the first to sing this song at AG.
He pulled out of the squad midweek and Morton played them on the Saturday at Ibrox and roughly 3000 fans behind his goal were singing it at him and he turned around and applauded us.
beatipacificiscotia says:
August 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm
FIFA says:
August 25, 2013 at 8:54 pm
Didn’t hear it, didn’t claim to, just letting people know the podcast is not always made available. I have it as one of my favourites and they are automatically downloaded to my phone. I’ve notice that Saturday shows are hit and miss for making it to podcast.
Gordon Dalziel is a fud, no doubt, but I stick by that I don’t believe he would find anything funny about Special Needs.
————————————————————-
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 9:12 pm
No point in trying to convince you then ….. beatipacificiscotia …….. But He DID make fun of a Special Needs school, no doubts why did he apologise if he was laughing at himself?
========================================================================
This is all getting a bit boring now ! FWIW, I agree with beatipacificiscotia and incredibleadamspark.
You have to be really careful when accusing someone.
However, Brenda, you can’t remember what he said and gave a “rough” resume of what you “think” he said.
If I’m correct as well, there is no Podcast of SSB’s Saturday afternoon show. You can only listen again to their phone-in at night (6-8 weekdays, 6-7 saturdays). Sometimes you don’t get the Sat Night phone-in download until the Tue/ Wed of the next week !
Also, on the Half Time apology, you’ve already admitted you didn’t hear it, but your post at 8:54 tonight states :
“GD apologised at half time for his comments ……. Admission of guilt or was he told to??? We will probably never know, hopefully he won’t be there to talk like this again.”
Strong words, but he might have been apologising for spilling Bovril over the Guy sat next to him !
I agree, Mental Health issues are not something to make fun of. My Son is in his mid 20’s and has a Mental Health problem (Autism). We often have a laugh and a joke when things get stressfull, which is quite often ! Believe me, he gives as good back ! In fact, there is a good TV Programme that has just started on Channel 4 called “I’m Spazticus”. My Son loves it and laughs out loud.
Brenda, take a “Chill Pill”. If I can compare, it’s like the stories we all hear at football games. i.e. a Player takes stick from the opposition fans for 89 mins. In the 90th min, his team wins a corner. Player takes the corner, Centre Forward scores !
Player then flicks the “V’s” at the home fans ! Reaction ? 10 complaints to Police, player disciplined !
SSB for a long time has been Pro-RIFC, so my advice is do what I do, just don’t listen to it ! especially if you’re a CFC supporter !
Sorry Brenda, but you cling too much to SSB. They are a joke outfit, and are deliberately there to enhance RIFC and wind CFC supporters up. Let it go, it will damage your health.
Regards
fergussingstheblues says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:23 pm
Well said
Now that Jackie boy’s in charge of the TRIFC’s output, can we expect a more measured response to the requests by Jim McColl , Kiaron Prior and Dave King for more financial transparency? Or is the Jackster going to carry on with business as usual vis-à-vis the peddling of guff via the MSM?
What does JT do at Ibrox?
Does JT know?
Will he stop filing ‘press releases’ for TRIFC?
Does Jack Irvine speak for the club?
thirdmanrunning says:August 25, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Why were Paul Murray and the Blue Knights prevented from buying Rangers?
——————————————————————————————————-
The IPO Prospectus ….. clears that one up
Page 14:
The business and assets of the Club were acquired by RFCL from the administrators of RFC 2012 plc
The Directors consider that the risk of liabilities, other than as may be referred to
in this document, has been mitigated by the competitive bidding process as a result of which RFCL
acquired the assets and business under the APA,
——————————————————————
This is an important document and backed by CENKOS …. written under the prospectus rules of the FSA
The document states:
“The Company and its Directors (whose names appear on Page 16 of this document) accept responsibility for the information contained in this document. To the best of the knowledge and belief of the Directors and the Company (who have taken all reasonable care to ensure that such is the case), the information contained in this document is in accordance with the facts and does not omit anything likely to affect the import of such information.”
RIFC could not afford to make mistakes …… oversights ….. or misleading statements ……….. Right ? ……….. 🙄
In the past few days I have submitted a few ….. oversights !
No suggestion of deliberate omission of course
A wee apology to Upthehoops. I put a post on earlier, which was rightly hooked. With hindsight it was a bit naughty, I hope you believe me when I tell you it was written with a big smile on my face…..but that does not always translate on to the screen! 😳 No offence mate! 😉
Brenda
Let the troll’s go.
its from the same source
@ FIFA
😉 will do nite all 😉
Either
A player was betting on a losing result on games he was playing in
Or
A player was trying to offset his loss of bonus by betting on a sure thing
Or
A player was betting on the result of a game he was playing in, in a totally dispassionate way
Or
A player was seeking to enrich himself, rip off the bookie, rip off the supporters and sell his soul.
Who knows??!
A refresh on the IPO Prospectus omissions ….
newtz says:August 25, 2013 at 10:43 pm
http://www.sfmonitor.org/2013/08/mr-green-and-opportunity-knocks-for-aberdeen/comment-page-18/#comment-61730
Interesting that all of this info is in the public domain … including the LBA claims and MSM cannot use CF excuse for not publishing such a Big Story ……. yet they choose Not To ….. !
thirdmanrunning says:
August 25, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Consider this, Charles Green and his consortium bought all of Rangers’ assets for c£5.5m, they even believed at the time that this included outstanding prize money and transfer fees, so the net amount paid would actually be substantially less than that. Probably more like £3.5m. That was for every asset Rangers’ owned when they went into liquidation. Stadium, training ground the lot.
Let’s ignore the corruption in that, and how it shafted the creditors for just a moment, just how wrong that deal was, and consider what happened next. We have discussed that at length.
Rangers International Football Club Ltd floated on the stock exchange and had an IPO, amongst others who bought the shares were the club’s support. They thought they were buying shares in the football club, that was nonsense but again something to set to one side. We are told that £10m of shares was set aside for them, but that they bought around £5.5m worth. For that they got control of around 11% of the business.
Basically Green bought the lot for £5.5m or less, then he sold 11% of it to the fans for £5.5m.
I would have sympathy if it wasn’t for the fact of how they behaved towards anyone who pointed out what was happening at the time. Threats, aggression and attempts at intimidation.
A perceived attack on Murray was an attack on the club. A perceived attack on Whyte was an attack on the club. A perceived attack on Green was an attack on the club. Let’s see what happens if they perceive an attack on McColl et al.
loamfeet says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:35 pm
43 3 Rate This
” Two Andy Gorams, there’s only two Andy Gorams”
———————————-
Just a page ago SSB was condemned for joking about special needs schools. In the same vein, I don’t think we should be making jokes about mental illness. Goram is a despicable character – I am sure there are plenty of other ways to criticise and rip the pish out of him.
=================================================================================
I think you’re quite right in what you say. The last thing we need is to be accused of double standards as this plays right into the msm’s hands.
Alleged fundraising for paramilitary groups in the remaining six counties of Ulster as well as allegedly wearing a black armband as a mark of “respect” for a dead convicted terrorist would be grounds enough to have the pish taken from anyone. Anyone who is stupid enough to have acted in such a manner would already be displaying overwhelming evidence of buffoonery and oafishness to the nth degree! I can’t think of anyone in public or private life who would be this stupid. If someone did act in such a manner they would deserve everything that came their way. If a person were to act in such a crass and idiotic way, the fact that there was an underlying and severe enduring mental health issue, may be used as a means of compelling the poor deluded individual to have treatment under the mental health act as they would quite clearly be exhibiting behaviours that more than likely would lead to injury to themselves and others. Also, if such a person was unable to see the irrationality of such actions, this again is a clear indicator that there is every possibility that the person could or would eventually causing harm either to themselves or others. Consequently this person could well be detained under the auspices of the mental health act and be given treatment whether he/she wanted to comply or not.
Just a thought.
by the way, my wife’s name is Morag.
newtz says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:43 pm (Edit)
thirdmanrunning says:August 25, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Why were Paul Murray and the Blue Knights prevented from buying Rangers?
——————————————————————————————————-
The IPO Prospectus ….. clears that one up
Page 14:
The business and assets of the Club were acquired by RFCL from the administrators of RFC 2012 plc
____________________________________________________________________________________
Serious question. I can understand the assets being purchased, but what exactly constitutes the business?
As far as I can see, the only business of RFC was to act as a football club, but that was in the gift of other clubs, not RFC, to allow them access to the market.
Why then would Sevco(Scotland) be paying RFC for access that they simply could not provide?
Seems to me that this is another example of a falsehood casually repeated again and again until it becomes an accepted fact. Or am I missing something? Is “the business” a legal proposition – or just anything that we want it to be?
BroguesRoguesAndILikeThePogues says:
August 25, 2013 at 11:16 pm
LOL, that’s what I’ve always called him!
@ fstb
Rantings??? Slight exaggeration 😉 in my opinion 😀
RyanGosling says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:17 am
justshatered says:
August 25, 2013 at 12:01 am
I think when Rangers became aware of the Ian Black charge the correct statements to be made should have been thus:
1) In this country, everyone is innocent until proven guilty
2) Having said that, it is inappropriate to select a player with this allegation hanging over them, so until the case is resolved, and with no stain on his character, Ian Black will not be selected for Rangers.
3) Rangers unreservedly condemn any betting by players on matches in which they are or could be involved
4) Furthermore, Rangers do not agree that professional football players should be betting on any professional football match in any circumstance
5) We welcome any investigation into this matter and will co-operate in the fullest.
Anything Rangers / Ally McCoist have said since that does not align with the above I believe to have been a bad and incorrect course of action.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well said.
McCoist and the clubs response has been completely lacking in integrity. There still seems to be a widespread view at Ibrox that spreading negative stories about other clubs/players is the right thing to do to deflect attention from Rangers when they are in difficulty. Welcome back Jack.
Re SSB
There is a choice, don’t listen to the programme. I don’t.
TSFM says:
August 25, 2013 at 1:16 pm
August 25, 2013 at 12:42 pm
__________________________________
It is impossible therefore to escape the conclusion that since finance trumps rules, the basic prerequisite which defines Scottish Football as a sport no longer exists.
For me this is not some human rights issue. There are WAY more important things in the world than this, but for the purposes of clarity and accuracy, let’s not call this shambles sport. It’s a sordid wee closed-shop money making scam exploits its fans’ loyalty (a loyalty it despises and mocks); which cares nothing for sporting principles, fairness or justice.
The market, not the rules of the game have sovereignty here, so no amount of popcorn, jelly and ice-cream can remove the taste that accompanies the theft of the sport I used to love.
__________________________________________________________________________
I fully agree – but who (other than Rangers Spivrectors, players, bookies, agents, Sky, Doncaster & Regan) is making money from Scottish football
beatipacificiscotia says:
August 25, 2013 at 8:32 pm
Brenda says:
August 25, 2013 at 7:53 pm
No wishing to spoil anyone’s righteous indignation, the Saturday SSB is not always posted. I’ve missed it on the odd occasion and it was not made available. They tend to talk most of the time amongst themselves and less to the public on Saturdays.
Sounds like Gordon Dalziel was laughing at his lack of understanding what “over the wall” meant rather than what was over the wall. Gordon Dalziel may be many things but I do not believe he would find anything funny about Special Needs. You might find he has done work with Special Needs kids, worth checking.
___________________________________________________________________________
A friend of mine some times listens to SSB and says, Motherwell Fan, Gordon Dalziel is very often self deprecating and occasionally funny in between talking complete and utter gash. So put the pitchforks away.
arabest1 says:
August 25, 2013 at 10:44 pm
=========================
No probs – I am completely unaware of said post! All the best!
ecobhoy says:
August 24, 2013 at 9:12 pm
24 0 Rate This
Reilly1926 says:
August 24, 2013 at 7:37 pm
The current regime are Dead Dog Pie.
==========================================
That is truly offal
————-
At the risk of distracting the Gordon Dalziel debate, I believe there is no actual dog in Dead Dog Pie. Another myth 🙂
PS The Gordon Dalziel discussion reminds me of Guidigate on here some time back. Since few have heard the programme and there have been no SSB listen-again podcasts since last Wednesday, it would be better, surely, for those who heard the Saturday broadcast to raise the issue directly with Clyde 1. What is more interesting regarding Mr Daziel though, is to find out if he is in fact a paid Ibrox spokesman while on air as an SSB pundit.
I see there is much excitement in Sevco cyberspace about an article in the Times over the weekend. The article discusses the fortunes of the Co-operative Bank, and mentions that it extends loans and overdraft facilities to Celtic of £34M. The poor bears have instantly taken that to read as Celtic being £34M in debt. Someone needs to tell them the difference between an overdraft facility and overdraft use. What price a phone call to Radio Clyde tonight from a financially savvy bear with the exciting news?!
The blog is once again displaying all the signs of an exciting rollercoaster, we had some real highs the last week but the Gordon Dalziel and Ally McCoist distractions bring us back down to earth. Off topic discussions about mental illness do not offer anything to this subject matter, especially when we have “experts” offering their painfully obvious, ignorant take on the subject.
Remain focused and continue to apply the pressure to the correct area at the right time and we will continue to provide the media with the tools they claim to be missing, at some point they will knock on the door looking to borrow something one day soon…..
upthehoops says:
August 26, 2013 at 7:13 am
………………………..
An overdraft facility….and an overdraft use?…How to confuse a SEVCO director!
The Rangers’ directors and shareholders would absolutely love a decent overdraft facility, particularly if it is at such a favourable rate.
The reality is that they probably don’t have one at all, which makes cash flow a really important issue for them.
Football clubs, especially those which operate at around the break even mark, absolutely need a decent overdraft facility. That’s what stops them having to go to companies like Ticketus and get the equivalent of Wonga loans. They need the money to see them through till their pay (season ticket sales) comes in. It is far from a cheap way to get money. Typically it’s the same as paying something like 25% over a period in the region of 3 or 4 months.
In Rangers case they had given up something like a third of their season ticket sales over 4 seasons. I’ll take an overdraft facility at 1.5% any time. That is a fantastic position to be in.
Just a thought on the board of directors situation at Rangers. Could this be yet another contrived scenario so that when the current board is ousted and the new messianic figures put in the feel good factor for the fans will be through the roof. New start, mistakes made, all stand together behind the real Rangers men running the club. Maybe one more share issue to steady the ship.
A bit “out there” I know but just another way of looking at it, another couple of pantomime villains to be thrown out. Brining Media House back in the current climate was a huge mistake if it wasn’t a deliberate ploy to provoke a lot of the support.
Could they really be trying to do this based on the WWE method of scripting situations with “good guys” and “bad guys”, Vince McMahon was mentioned some time ago.
gc58 @ 9.44pm
Thank you 🙂
Glad to see things getting back to the real reason we’re here today 😉 , but just to reply to those who were getting a wee teensy bit personal and becoming GD/SSB sympathisers. What GD said was wrong simples, and anyone who thinks what he said was acceptable is wrong, matter closed as far as posts here are concerned but I will continue to ask questions elsewhere as I am sure many others will. Bye 😥
PS I could not ‘quote’ what he said because I could not remember it word for word 😉 and although I did not hear his ‘apology’ my husband did. Have a nice day let’s keep working for FairPlay in all walks of life 😀