We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
bestdressedchicken says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 09:10
_____________________________________________________________________________
Hard hitting blog from Tommo…don’t it make you proud?
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/threats-silence-intimidation-rangers-fans/2873
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And as if to hammer the point home for Tommo, witness the events on Twitter today after Aberdeen’s Jonny Hayes put this up:
“No poppy ya dancer!”
Unsurprisingly this was then met with a barrage of abuse involving the normal Sevconian invective with choice words and phrases such as “T***ier scum”, “bitter c**t” and “why don’t you f*** off home then?”, as they naturally assumed he was referring to THE poppy.
Unfortunately for the knuckledraggers, Hayes was referring to the horse tip he had tweeted earlier, No Poppy in the 3:10 at York which had scooted home at odds of 11/1. Ironically, the other horse he gave, Face Value in the 4:05 at Tramore, also won at 5/1. I wonder how many of Chico’s potential investors earned their £500 on the back of that one?:)
Charlie Brown says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 17:46
Good post.
I personally believe there are also socio-political reasons for their mindset, but I don’t think the blog would appreciate that discussion.
Suffice to say from a purely economic viewpoint I think you are correct, and if they can ever accept it they can move forward as a viable business.
However it really depends how many of the bears will be willing to accept the reality and stick with their team. Remember if the numbers drop off the costs don’t necessarily drop proportionately. Lose 10,000 season ticket holders and you lose say £4m. That doesn’t mean that costs (sans wages) drop by the same amount.
A new Rangers, a viable business, can be built. It won’t be easy. To an extent that’s why they can’t afford to lose a certain part of their following. They need the money too much.
scapaflow14 says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 14:41
“Chris Graham @ChrisGraham76
The Rangers Standard has started a petition for a dedicated Rangers Museum. Please add your name here. http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/museum-petition …”
Chris, by the time Mr Green is finished, a museum might be all that’s left…..
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That’s a fish in barrel that one…
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 19:49
========================
Well said Sir, Chapeau.
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 19:49
But how touching have the memories of and tributes to Big Jock been this week.
——
Yes, there were some good ones from McLeish, Miller, Leighton and Sir Alex (all of whom, of course, were there on the night) in the Evening Express today.
A sad loss, and a giant of the game.
I remember his death, but hadn’t really started going to the fitba till about 1978-9 so missed his glory years with Celtic.
Not Good.
Commentary is developing beyond our borders:
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/10/12/the-not-so-beautiful-game-how-rangers-fans-try-to-crush-critics/
Extract:
The Bureau works in collaboration with other news groups to get its investigations published and distributed. To date, we have worked with BBC File On Four, BBC Panorama, BBC Newsnight, Channel4 Dispatches, Channel4 News, The Financial Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Times, Le Monde and numerous others.
Quote:
`..so drastic that you would hardly believe it could exist in modern-day Britain`.
.
Blimey!
parmahamster says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:20
=========================
Where I come from “No Poppy” means “Devoid of funds, sans cash, short of the readies, without the proverbial to p!55 in, temporarily financially embarrassed.”
Given the date and the context it takes a particularly twisted mind-set to see it as an attack on the motif people identify with Earl Haig’s fund.
Agrajag says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:33
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Given their current circumstances, I would have thought that the horse’s name had even more significance to their plight than they could have realised….
Would it be true to say that LH refused D&P a handover to BDO otherwise we would have had an announcement today ?
I`m wondering if the share issue announcement was rushed out on some optimistic hint to Green from D&P that LH was satisfied there was no COI issue and hence the sale to Green was most unlikely to be querstioned
it doesnt look good for new rangers…does it ?…i think the only way the new rangers can survive long term is for mccoist or someone connected to the club to come out and tell the fans the truth . the club you thought you knew for the past 25 years was run like a mafia operation…david murray stole the best part of 250 million from the taxpayer to buy success that they couldnt afford and when they were found out..it killed the club .
now the only way for the new club to survive is to cut costs right across the board and pay any outstanding debts as the price for getting the old clubs league membership . the reality of this will be a huge shock to “the people” but its either that or nothing .
its interesting to me that all the focus seems to be the ebt payments from 2000 onwards…surely the huge borrowing and dodgy deals that murray did during his leadership of rangers over 20 years should be looked at ?…
parmahamster says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:39
Agrajag says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:33
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Given their current circumstances, I would have thought that the horse’s name had even more significance to their plight than they could have realised….
================================
😆
The irony worked on a few levels. I can count 17.
it is very surprising that even after the IPO is slated by the respected paper the FT, and others, including one of the consultants of someone who tried to buy the club in May, that the majority of Sevcoians are still going to buy shares in the company masquarading as a football club. You would think that also those who were sceptical at the start of Chuckie’s reign would be trying to provide the voice of reason to the masses, but no, we now have the “poor knight” towing the party line with his nonsensical comment about the SPL.and the size of the club.
In this time of austerity, I would have thought that most people would be much more careful with their money, especially those who have already taken one up the sphincter by the old company.
It also seems to me that Chuck is trying to alienate the whole of the football fraternity by slagging of the likes of Man United and Aston Villa, from some bizarre reason.
I must confess my favourite phrase by Chuck is that the SPL have stolen their money, why did no one say to him what about the money oldco stole from all its creditors.
blackadder2 says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 21:02
Oldco when it suits, Newco when it suits.
Debt free, but owed money that Oldco “won”
Shameless.
Watching angleland v the mighty San Marino. Commentary up to its usual woeful standard. I’m taken back to a time years ago I was in Spain and dropped into an Irish bar to watch some champions league football.
Think it was on RTE. The commentary and post match analysis was light years ahead of anything the BBC or ITV have to offer ie not the normal cliche laiden rubbish stating the blatantly obvious. Well, to be fair, they were stating the obvious but at a much higher level and with withering articulate criticism. I was taken aback.
readcelt says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 21:39
—
‘..Think it was on RTE. The commentary and post match analysis was light years ahead of anything the BBC or ITV have to offer ie not the normal cliche laiden rubbish stating the blatantly obvious…….’
—–
I have developed the habit of listening to RTE Radio One.
It’s far more sophisticated in its news, current affairs , and sports coverage.Their sports journalists and pundits make the Chicks and the Jabbas sound like semi-articulate buffoons who cannot finish any sentence they start.
(Not surprising, I suppose, since they ARE semi-articulate buffoons.)
goosygoosy says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:42
‘Would it be true to say that LH refused D&P a handover to BDO otherwise we would have had an announcement today ?’
—-
Seriously, I don’t think so.
Or at least, LH, like everybody else, has to watch his back.
It’s not just D&P who need to be told what his judgment may be.
And he has to be ready to issue a written judgment to interested parties, any of whom would be able to challenge his conclusion.
No, if LH was ‘a bent judge’ it would not be for the sake of a new , struggling football club and a parcel of rogues.
With some of the cases he deals with, he could make corruption a nice wee earner if he was so inclined!
I think we can have faith in his strict application of legal principles to the evidence and facts of the situation.
As said before, though, the way our fat-cat politicians have framed the laws relating to insolvency and crookedness in business makes it difficult to secure a conviction of ‘conflict’.
That is not the judge’s fault.
Scotland, the cradle of economics, empiricism, engineering and enlightenment reduced to the base nonsense of the Daily Record.
Through these misty eyes, I see lonely sky’s……..
John Clarke
Concur. The print media more so.(balanced)
Levein for Sevco?
Would cheer me up.
Less said about Scotland the better!
However being it was Wales then Davies were mentioned a lot.
Which reminded me of Steven Davis one of the tupe 5 who ended up at Southampton.
Earlier I said maybe the club came into Green’s sights for dumping them out of the pre-season tourney. However maybe they got a mention because as opposed to the £800k reported they actually just passed on a few quid for taking on Davis’ registration??
I was talking to a friend about England’s latest effort in p1ssing £100m up the wall on a state of the art training facility.
How many uefa b licences coaches would that pay for?
How many extra trained coaches would it bring into grass roots (school?) football?
Having just lost, again.
Out of another major tournament.
I look forward to the radical 10 year plan from the SFA that will propel us on to the world stage.
Can we have a new blog please?
One that’s to address the state of the national side. Wales are a dreadful, dreadful side….. and we lost to them.
Agrajag says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:58
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To continue in the same vein, My Ladybird book of useless Cenkos facts informs me that the company was named after the founder’s racehorse. 😀
Can you just launch any nonsense with no info on the AIM if a NOMAD Ok’s it – surely not. Just what has to be revealed in the share prospectus about the ownership of assets – the status and identity of the present owners and the business plan going forward with a statement of revenue and expenses? Any business bods help me – i am clueless on all of this i am afraid!
Status quo. Established. Top of their profession. High profile.
How many people and organisations have managed to duck serious investigation into mis deeds, simply because they were a media draw and high profile?
readcelt @ 22:17
As is the norm with organisations like the FA and the SFA, they would rather spend millions on vanity projects and monuments, than actually do some good with the available cash
Fair play to Wales.
Woof! What a screamer.
john clarke says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 22:04
‘Would it be true to say that LH refused D&P a handover to BDO otherwise we would have had an announcement today ?’
—-
Seriously, I don’t think so.
Or at least, LH, like everybody else, has to watch his back.
It’s not just D&P who need to be told what his judgment may be.
And he has to be ready to issue a written judgment to interested parties, any of whom would be able to challenge his conclusion.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
John
D&P applied to LH to hand RFC (IA) over to BDO on 12 Oct
If this had indeed happened then D&P`s track record suggests that a LH approval of handover would be worthy of a press release?
Alternatively
If LH had not finished his investigation of COI he would surely be inclined to tell D&P they had to remain in charge This effectively makes the handover date a decision for him alone to make
Being a Judge I would not expect him to indulge in update type press releases
Hence no press release rather suggests LH is still investigating the COI ?
ordinaryfan says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 22:10
Levein for Sevco?
Would cheer me up.
=====================
With Ally being groomed for the Scotland job.
Tallboy Poppy: Andy Stewart? The same guy who wanted to buy “Rangers” from Green?
If Rangers fans can allegedly come up with £20m now why did a group like RFFF not co-ordinate that before chuckie came on the scene? Is that a daft question? ma brains a bit muggy tonight after that scotland result.
briggsbhoy says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 23:14
ngers fans can allegedly come up with £20m now why did a group like RFFF not co-ordinate that before chuckie came on the scene
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Not a daft question at all and the same one ive been asking since it was announced (AIM)
i can only presume he wants to pay CW off
ordinaryfan says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 23:12
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I think that was Allan Stewart, of. It’s Andy Stewart that was founder of Cenkos.
(and not the one in the plaid frock). It might be tagged wrong on certain hardworking
bloggers pages…thus the confusion. You got me going for a minute though.
For those not on twitter. RTC (and many decent brains) have, as they say, ripped Graham Speirs a new one!
forweonlyknow says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 00:06
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Of course Spiers is defending the indefensible, but at least he has some track record of dissent. Anybody who has moved (-S)DM to phone an editor to try to bully him into sacking him must have at least some credit. Contrast with cowards like English who go to ground the minute a proper journalist asks awkward questions about death threats to…..er,…..25 Scottish journalists. I’m sure RTC must understand exactly how they feel. That’s why I think he’s the wrong target.
john clarke says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 22:04
JC
I hope your confidence proves well-founded. I have my doubts about the entire system.
Pining for the Fjiords! ;
M8Dreamer
Levein – OUT NOW
Anybody but the Cardigan or Fat Sally
goosygoosy says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 22:57
‘….Hence no press release rather suggests LH is still investigating the COI ?’
—–
Been Skyping the granweans in Oz for the last wee while.
I think it’s rather more mundane.
If D&P submitted a petition to the Court today to be discharged as Administrators, and for Administration to be signed off, chances are that LH hasn’t even seen it yet!
The only thing that could be reported would have been the fact that a petition had been lodged .
Not newsworthy, because D&P said that was what they were going to do.
(What might have been newsworthy would have been their non-submission of a petition!)
But a petition of that kind is but one item of relatively routine commercial court business.It will take its place in the queue.
In the fullness of time LH will respond to that petition.
He will have studied the report submitted to him by D&P in which they try to show that they were honest,unconflicted chappies.
He may very well have sought information from other quarters, such as Strathclyde’s finest, for example, on whether there was evidence of skulduggery in the connection between Whyte’s adviser who became an employee of D&P, which company was subsequently appointed by Whyte as Administrators .
But be that as it may, if LH is of the opinion that D&P were compromised, he will decide that the whole Administration process was tainted, possibly criminal, and rule accordingly.
If, however, he finds that there are insufficient grounds for declaring the administration as flawed,he will formally discharge the Administrators, and may or may not agree their claim for fees in the amount claimed.
And then BDO move in.
Essentially, though, no one calls the shots or directs the action other than the Court, which will not be hurried and hassled by any party to the proceedings, or be under any compulsion to issue press statements.
On the morning after liquidation date, a Scottish journalist appears to think that a CVA was indeed achieved and that Rangers go marching on, at least for the forseeable future.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/glenn-gibbons-endgame-in-rangers-saga-not-in-sight-1-2573317
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 04:01
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On the morning after liquidation date, a Scottish journalist
appears to think that a CVA was indeed achieved and that Rangers go marching on, at least for the forseeable future.
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/glenn-gibbons-endgame-in-rangers-saga-not-in-sight-1-2573317
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Not sure what you’re seeing doontheslope, but it’s not the same as me:
‘It will not be forgotten that the tax authorities rejected the offer of a CVA from present chief executive Charles Green with the specific purpose of putting the company into liquidation, thereby arming the liquidators, BDO, with the power to carry out a wide-ranging official inquiry.’
‘ The subsequent administration and liquidation confirms (even without supporting data) that the economic devastation must have been irreparable.’
Lord Wobbly
Just becoming increasingly irritated at the lack of distinction between Rangers and Sevco.
Those two sentences did jump out at me too. I also remember at the time of the rejected CVA, talk of HMRC going after individuals responsible for the devastation. I hope this is what is going on.
Does someone need to cater for several particularly succulent lamb dinners?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/farming/60000-paid-for-single-lamb-in-sale-of-livestock.19134181
News flash.
Charles Green to sell Rangers fans shares in a iron pyrite mining operation.
When asked about the likely ROI for investors Green said he anticipated quarterly dividends of moonbeams with the possibility of magic beans in really good years.
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 05:13
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Lord Wobbly
Just becoming increasingly irritated at the lack of distinction
between Rangers and Sevco.
Those two sentences did jump out at me too. I also remember at the time of the rejected CVA, talk of HMRC going after individuals responsible for the devastation. I hope this is what is going on.
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Glenn Gibbons has been consistently one of the better and more clued-up journalists throughout this debacle. I don’t think we can be overly criticak when he clearly refers to liquidation.
What I found more interesting was the quote from Malcolm Murray (can’t do bold so I have upper-cased for emphasis):
“there is no risk of the CLUB going into administration and
any suggestion otherwise is scandalous.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/questor/9602806/Questor-share-tips-Avoid-Rangers-like-prune-juice-for-now.html
Priceless
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2012/10/11/1204671/ship-of-theseus-seeks-flotation/
readcelt says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 22:25
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0
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Status quo. Established. Top of their profession. High profile.
How many people and organisations have managed to duck serious investigation into mis deeds, simply because they were a media draw and high profile?
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Jimmy Saville.
readcelt says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 08:14
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/questor/9602806/Questor-share-tips-Avoid-Rangers-like-prune-juice-for-now.html
Priceless
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Bears on prune juice – in my day it was Syrup of Figs 🙂
“But for now, Questor remains bearish on Rangers. Football is a bit like prune juice after all.”
Did he realise the above was a pun?
Whilst enjoying a break with the family in Glasgow, I woke up this morning to the glorious Glasgow rain I miss (not!), still bitterly dissappointed with the 2-1 defeat last night.
However, the sadness turns to a touch at least of comedy, or is it comical irony, when I open the paper and read the following headline in the “Weekend Evening Times” (on a Saturdarday morning?) :
“COISTY WILL SORT MESS OUT AND PULL CLUB BACK”….story attributed to one Barry Ferguson, who is enjoying a double page spread as he …”prepares to explore new avenues at career crossroads…”
Ladies and Gentlemen….I give you….(drumroll!)…..The Scottish Mainstream Media…aka MSM!
From the Telegraph.
Trfc spend 30% of turnover on players wages. So turnover is roughly £20m.
Celtic pay all wages ( players, coaches, management, staff) equivalent of 60% of turnover.
If trfc have turnover of £20m and sally is on a reported £1m ayear, then he alone adds another 5% of turnover to wages, and all the tuped staff will be on contracts equal to last years spl turnover ( rfc must have paid decent wages to staff ) then that % must be rising all the time. Any number crunchers able to work out a likely % once all wages are accounted for.
Also, in what way does “the football club” own its 51,000 seater stadium and training complex.
Has jolly boy john ( bomber ) shown them the deeds.
angus1983 says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:30
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 19:49
But how touching have the memories of and tributes to Big Jock been this week.
——
Yes, there were some good ones from McLeish, Miller, Leighton and Sir Alex (all of whom, of course, were there on the night) in the Evening Express today.
A sad loss, and a giant of the game.
I remember his death, but hadn’t really started going to the fitba till about 1978-9 so missed his glory years with Celtic.
====================================================================
Angus…I did not see any of the programme but I can say that you really missed something not being around at the time of the “Big Man”.
My favourite story about him was at a football event in Europe, in the late 70’s or ealy 80’s, he was in a crowd of distinguished football glitterati. From the other side of the room bounded one Franz Beckenbauer, then at the peak of his career/popularity, who shook hands with Stein, renewing an old acquaintance.
I can imagine, just, the same scenario whereby Ronaldo or similar, happened to be in the same room as Craig Levein….!
Giants v. pygmies is the analogy that comes to mind!
PS I was in Menorca in 1983 when the Big Man died and it was a Dutch guy who told me…I am not ashamed to say I cried…!
PPS And just for good measure and reporting balance, he was treated appallingly by Celtic FC at the end!
forweonlyknow says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 00:06
For those not on twitter. RTC (and many decent brains) have, as they say, ripped Graham Speirs a new one!
I had a look at the RTC tweets.
I think RTC is making a serious point in that if the MSM in Scotland continue to recycle and print the PR nonsense that is being fed to them without question, then the MSM will become complicit in the ponzi scheme that is the TFRC share issue. Is RTC giving Mr Spiers et al a friendly warning, a reality check?
I don’t think that the timing of AT’s blog yesterday was accidental. Was his blog not in part a plea for the importance of a free press, free to report and seek the truth without fear of intimidation? Spiers et al may not being intimidated – yet they are for whatever reason acting like sheep. The cr@p that CG is coming away with at the moment being a case in point – this is largely going unchecked, in Scotland.
The MSM in their reporting of all matters Rangers (with the exception of some e.g. AT, SC, TC) are at the last chance saloon. Murray, Whyte and Green are three peas in the same pod – no real difference between them. Yet, many in the MSM are continuing to act as if nothing has happened.
A complicit press is a catalyst for wrong – in this instance a large section of the Scottish population are likely to be ripped off, should the share issue prove to be a vehicle for CG and others to exit stage left with a tidy sum in their back pockets.
A complicit SFA is wrong – you gave the Club and its owners a licence – you have a responsibility to act to protect the game and the fans. You have a responsibility to see through the bull-sh!t.
Its time for the MSM (with the exception of the good guys) and the SFA to grow a pair. If this goes t!ts up AGAIN, it will be on your watch. And your old excuses will not wash!
blackboab says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:54
it doesnt look good for new rangers…does it ?…i think the only way the new rangers can survive long term is for mccoist or someone connected to the club to come out and tell the fans the truth . the club you thought you knew for the past 25 years was run like a mafia operation…david murray stole the best part of 250 million from the taxpayer to buy success that they couldnt afford and when they were found out..it killed the club .
now the only way for the new club to survive is to cut costs right across the board and pay any outstanding debts as the price for getting the old clubs league membership . the reality of this will be a huge shock to “the people” but its either that or nothing .
its interesting to me that all the focus seems to be the ebt payments from 2000 onwards…surely the huge borrowing and dodgy deals that murray did during his leadership of rangers over 20 years should be looked at ?…
========================================================================
Blackboab…I agree entirely with your sentiments and wish he could be brought to book, along with several of his cronies in the Edinburgh Financial “Chattering Classes”
However, I do know that many such banking loans are done on a “nod or wink or handshake(funny or otherwise) and that bringing a case to court would border on the well nigh impossible.
There will be vitually no paper or electronic trail to show criminal complicity, unfortunately. Even in cases with such evidence, such as Polly Peck, it took 25 years plus to prove a case, and this one had a decent paper trail, including suitcases of cash (!) being withdrawn from UK based banks and “spirited” abroad.
In conclusion, another “white” collar crime goes unpunished!
blackboab says:
Friday, October 12, 2012 at 20:54
80 1 Rate This
it doesnt look good for new rangers…does it ?…i think the only way the new rangers can survive long term is for mccoist or someone connected to the club to come out and tell the fans the truth . the club you thought you knew for the past 25 years was run like a mafia operation…david murray stole the best part of 250 million from the taxpayer to buy success that they couldnt afford and when they were found out..it killed the club .
now the only way for the new club to survive is to cut costs right across the board and pay any outstanding debts as the price for getting the old clubs league membership . the reality of this will be a huge shock to “the people” but its either that or nothing .
its interesting to me that all the focus seems to be the ebt payments from 2000 onwards…surely the huge borrowing and dodgy deals that murray did during his leadership of rangers over 20 years should be looked at ?…
————————————————————————————————————————–
I agree, in the words of Hugh Adams “there were deals going on as far back as the 90,s”.
Once the SPL finish with their investigation then surely SFA will step in ( no laughing please). In fact IMO these financial shenanigans commenced when Mr Murray walked through the doors at Ibrox in the late 80,s.
Green says that he is planning to stop the manager and players speaking to the media and, instead, will have Premium phone lines for fans to talk directly with them for £2.
Such ingratitude after all that the media has done for that club/company.
rab says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 09:00
From the Telegraph.
Trfc spend 30% of turnover on players wages. So turnover is roughly £20m.
Celtic pay all wages ( players, coaches, management, staff) equivalent of 60% of turnover.
If trfc have turnover of £20m and sally is on a reported £1m ayear, then he alone adds another 5% of turnover to wages, and all the tuped staff will be on contracts equal to last years spl turnover ( rfc must have paid decent wages to staff ) then that % must be rising all the time. Any number crunchers able to work out a likely % once all wages are accounted for.
Also, in what way does “the football club” own its 51,000 seater stadium and training complex.
Has jolly boy john ( bomber ) shown them the deeds.
====================================================================
I’m no expert,Rab but here’s how I see it:
Players wages £6m.
Ally plus Mcdowall,Durrant,other coaching staff,physios etc,£2m minimum
Other staff(office,admin,tickets etc)around 170 in number.at an average of £20k p.a.(and that might be low when you include employers nic,pension contributions etc)£3.4m.
That’s £11.4m wages.
Can TRFC pay all other costs with just £8.6m.(£716k p.m).
that’s if turnover is indeed £20m.
36k STs at £300,not allowing for concessions but minus VAT would bring in roughly £9m.
that will be the biggest income of the season.Where is the other £11m coming from.Matchday ticket sales from 18 home games plus cup ties will maybe add another £3m to the pot.that still leaves a shortfall of £8m.
Also,if most STs are paid over 4 months then CG may be right in stating that at this moment,TRFC are debt free.they will be getting £2.7m p.m. at this time.However,this will stop at the end of November.From then on TRFC will only have matchday income of around £100k per game on average and 2 home games per month till the end of the season.
Maybe this is why there’s the rush to get shares issued before Xmas.the cash is running out and they have no overdraft facilities
P.S. I have not allowed for any game changers like income from Adidas,Dallas Cowboys or Apple in my calculations.
Just how I see it.Feel free to shoot me down.
Had to laugh at a clip I saw last night of CG and A Mc on tv during their sales pitch tour for the Sevco fans donations
CG spends 5 mins talking about how Sevco are in such great shape ,debt free and cash rich in the bank (speaking all week to Wall st investors was even mentioned ).
the interviewer then turns to Sally and says …
With all this money coming in you will get your share for the team Ally and all those years ago Ragers got you for £185,000 and you scored so many goals for them ,bet you would love to sign a player like that .
Sally replies ,,,I would love to just get £185,000 ,well you could just see CG sliding down his chair
Looks like it’s not just on the park that Sally is playing a blinder
For balance
I have lifted this from follow follow, it is a fans response to Alex Thomson’s blog. Apparently coming from The Rangers Standard.
================================================
Threats, Damned Threats and Lies: A Response to Alex Thomson
Alex Thomson’s latest blog is a new low. Not only is it frighteningly inaccurate, but the motive behind writing it is dubious. I can see no reason other than demonising Rangers fans, a now depressingly familiar theme. It is a naive and ill-informed to say that one club has a problem of an “underclass” any more than another.
It was unsurprising to see Graham Spiers (the discredited journalist) jumping on the Thomson band wagon. “I have been threatened as well” he told us. Yeah, that is why you need protection when you report from Ibrox isn’t it? The really galling thing is both Thomson and Spiers go out of their way to antagonise supporters. I heard Gordon Waddell talking about Spiers on BBC Scotland radio. He spoke about how Spiers, the wee devil, was deliberately putting out tweets to wind up supporters. Another recurring theme is “I have been threatened but no police action has been taken”. We have seen it with Phil MacGiollaBhain, Donnecha DeLong of the NUJ and Alex Thomson.
Let’s actually look at Thomson’s blog in detail. It is rhetoric that Chris Morris would be proud of. He speaks of the groups and people who have been intimidated.
THE LAWYERS.
Alex speaks about the furore that surrounded the original SFA findings against Rangers. I am not going to dispute that any of these gentlemen were abused or received threats and that is totally unacceptable. However, if anyone is threatened on social media and it is brought to the attention of the police, guess what they do? They advise on best practice and what to do. Not one single arrest has been made arising from these alleged threats and most importantly, as is so often the case, these gentlemen were left unmolested. This is not evidence that threats or unacceptable behaviour is prevalent in or unique to Rangers fan is it?
This blog is about threats but, for some reason, Lord Nimmo-Smith is mentioned.
“It has continued. In the past few weeks Scottish Law Lord and former Supreme Court Judge Lord Nimmo-Smith actually had to put out a statement pleading for his independence to be recognised as he embarks on yet another investigation of the fallen club.”
What has continued Alex? Rangers fans questioning the impartiality of the process? Is that a threat now? Are you not getting mixed up with democracy here? Has anyone read anywhere or suggested that Lord Nimmo-Smith was threatened? Alex is grasping at straws here.
THE FOOTBALL AUTHORITIES
If it is Stewart Regan allegedly being threatened by Rangers fans it is worth a mention in his blog – not that there is any proof this even happened. If it is Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie and the SFL, it is not. Perhaps the abuse that members of the SFL took when some thought they were going to enter Rangers into Div 1 has slipped Thomson’s mind? Perhaps he is not aware of the campaign Celtic ran against the SFA and refs that resulted in refs being threatened with injury and death? It got so bad that the refs went on strike.
Who perpetrated those threats? Rangers fans? It seems it is only Ally McCoist who has to act responsibly. In Thomson’s world, McCoist should be ashamed but Turnbull Hutton is a hero for saying that the SFA are corrupt, bullies and liars on the steps of Hampden. Could Hutton not be putting the SFA officials in danger by stirring up hatred?
THE PUBLISHER
This would be my old Twitter sparring partner, Bob Smith. Bob loves retweeting anything disparaging about Rangers and has no problem calling Rangers “Sevco” and “cheats”. I have not seen Bob retweet any threats he has received and alas, it seems Bob is another who the police don’t want to help. Anyone arrested for threatening Bob?
“There was definitely pressure applied and there were certainly some wobbles along the way from shops and customers. But we got through and in the end people were supportive.”
I thought there were threats? They now seem to be downgraded to “wobbles”. What pressure? I have no idea what Bob’s issue is and it seems neither does he.
THE BOOKSELLER
It is simply not true that the book had to be hidden away in stores. I did an article on the Rangers Standard about the truth about the book sales. In East Kilbride Waterstones, for example, the book sold 30 in its first week. It may have sold reasonably well in some Glasgow shops and if it made local charts then its prominence increased. The simple reason it was not prominently displayed is because it wasn’t a major book. The stories on twitter even included Rangers fans setting fire to books in stores. Surely no one would believe nonsense like that, would they? Oh, hold on:-
“In at least one store copies were ripped up. In another Glasgow shop an angry individual wearing a Union Jack repeatedly entered the bookshop to scream at staff to send the offending tome back to the publishers.”
Comedy gold. Now even if this was true, how do a couple of isolated incidents prove the case that Rangers have a particularly bad problem with its “underclass fans”? But it is not true. It is not true because if Alex had taken the time to contact individual Waterstones and WH Smith stores and contact the HQ of both businesses, like I did, he would have been told that they have no reports of staff or branch intimidation. Alex is unwilling to divulge which shop the Union Jack shouter appeared in but guess what, no arrests. Why is Alex unwilling to tell us where this occurred and when?
THE BROADCASTERS
Well I will leave the STV ‘colleague’ out of it for the moment except to say his idea of a low profile must be different from mine. But the rest of Alex’s comments are really stretching it:-
“NUJ officials say currently around 25 journalists have been threatened recently for attempting to tell the truth about Rangers.”
Well actually they don’t. Phil Mac Giolla Bhain said that he was shown a bit of paper that had the names of 25 colleagues that had been threatened by Rangers fans. That was Mac Giolla Bhain’s usual spin and was not in any way officially linked to the NUJ. He was speaking at a motion that specifically mentioned him and his book. Let me tell you that the branch of the NUJ who put up this motion were the New Media Industrial Council boasting members including MacGiollabhain and the lovely Donnecha DeLong, the Rangers and poppy hating president of the NUJ. So again Alex is intentionally misleading his readers.
THE FOOTBALL CLUB
This is Alex returning to the Eric Drysdale affair. Separating the two issues gives Alex another point to list. Usual hyperbole applies:-
“The day Fife police passed on credible information from the Strathclyde force that two men has been paid to burn down Raith’s stadium is a day Mr Turnbull and Raith Rovers will remember.”
This story was also featured in The Herald some time ago. The Herald carried the story that a plot to torch Starks Park had been foiled. I had to check I was not reading the National Enquirer. So I asked Fife police to clarify via a FOI request. What they told me was that the on-going investigation may or may not have interrupted a credible threat and Raith Rovers were not the complainant. No arrests. Of course it could be that Strathclyde Police were given malicious information but that is not going to stop Alex using it to prove his point. I mean the police are not corrupt? Oh sorry, Alex thinks they are corrupt but only when it comes to investigating a small group of journalists who say they have been threatened.
THE NEWSPAPER
Alex seems baffled by The Sun’s decision to pull the serialisation of the book. The simple explanation, of the author’s document hatred and Ranger’s fans mobilising to point this out, is not accepted. Despite barely being mentioned in the English press except by MacGiollabhain’s friend and fellow Republican writer, Roy Greenslade, this was apparently:
“one of the more bizarre editorial u-turns of recent newspaper history in the UK when a Scottish Sun double-page splash promoting the author of ‘Downfall’ prior to serialising the book – suddenly became a non-serialisation”
Again, Alex fails to mention that the double page splash feature has Mac Giolla Bhain lying in it, as he claims he does not hate Rangers. How can I say he is lying? Well, Alex told us. Here is Alex talking about MacGiollbhain in a previous blog:
“He wishes to see Rangers FC obliterated as far as I can discern” and ”He writes about Rangers’ downfall with undisguised glee and mirth’
Maybe the fact that Phil was shown to be a liar, and tried to do anything to paint himself as a victim who was only interested in a story of corporate failure, helped The Sun make its decision?
“The paper denied it was bowing to threats. Yet the publisher of the book says the threat of a Hillsborough-style boycott was real and instrumental.”
So what? We did threaten a boycott of the paper. Is Alex saying this is a sinister threat? If anyone else does it, fine. When we do it, it is menacing. If Alex would like to check he will see that some Celtic fans are threatening to boycott The Sun today because of coverage of Rangers share issue. Can we expect Alex to condemn this threat soon?
“The difficulty here is that, whatever the paper’s reasons, in the end the mob got their way.”
Many thousands of Rangers fans complained about Mac Giolla Bhain. We are now “the mob”. At this point Alex has completely lost the plot. It is very similar to Phil’s language and note he is now not talking about an “element”. Anyone who complained was part of “the mob”. All Rangers fans are now targeted.
“The serialisation of a fast-selling factual book on Rangers never happened.”
There is that myth of a best seller again.
“They couldn’t get Turnbull Hutton, Lord Nimmo-Smith, Eric Drysdale, STV and many, many more – but many believe they did get the Scottish Sun”.
Just read that again. How ridiculous is that? They? Get? Alex cites anecdotal nonsense and unproven accusations as justification for this assault on Rangers fans.
In summary, this blog seems “hell-bent”, as Alex would say, in tarring Rangers fans with a sinister brush. It is devoid of any real thought or analysis. The ‘evidence’ is based almost exclusively on the ramblings of a group of about 4-5 people who are all well documented as detesting everything about Rangers.
Thomson is doing the work of a small group of pseudo journalists who are making it their business to attack our football club. He has made no meaningful contribution to a story which deserved much more. I’ll leave the final word on Thomson’s blog to Tom English of the The Scotsman – a man who often gets up the noses of Rangers fans – and who described it as “hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense”.
i don’t think green and the sevco consortium will exit stage left as they are only planning to float 49% of the company for approx four times the £5M they paid for 100% after the share issue they will still own 51% and probably plan a further divestment of their majority shareholding at some future point.
However anybody investing in the bears is buying a pig in a poke, it’s a donation to green & co as they can’t or won’t put in the money needed to finance rangers at their current cost base.
That people would consider paying Green 400% for less than 50% after just 6 months is staggering especially when it will still leave him with 51% majority control whatever happens, being fleeced doesn’t even begin to cover it.
Sorry if this is a wee bit out of context but who is in charge of appointing, and therein sacking our national coach? I know the question doesn’t come at a good time because of all T’Rangers news, but I feel it too is a bit of another joke. Does it fall within Mr C Ogilvie’s (Im a peacemaker now love me!) as this surely shouldn’t be!
Sorry I meant to say re-mit in that last sentence, the hangover is still fresh the brown champagne lingers.
rab says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 09:00
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Rate This
From the Telegraph.
Trfc spend 30% of turnover on players wages. So turnover is roughly £20m.
===========================================
I wonder if that’s counting the two sets of season tickets Charles sees as being in the same year., In which case it’s probably about right.
how this for a three cup trick from green & co, we’ll put in 1, you’ll put in 4, we’ll take back our 1 and use any remainder to pay legacy debts and help fund working capital, we’ll have been repaid 100% and you will have paid for everything, we’ll own 51% minimum and you will own the remainder but it’s still and always been your club, everyone’s a winner! (except you of course 😉
Charlie Brown says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 11:19
So long as the people involved understand it I can’t see a problem. It is their money and if they want to give it to Mr Green that’s fair enough.
So long as they understand what is going on.
http://s16.postimage.org/hauorb8px/criley_rangers.jpg
The Alex Thomson blog has really shaken me. Somehow those of us living in Scotland accept this thuggery and violence and intimidation – that is a stain on each and everyone of us.
Is it not time that the First Minister and the Justice Minister stepped forward publicly and called for Green to end the dog-whistle messages of hatred that are damaging our communities? The First Minister has credit in the bank with Sevco fans – he called them ‘part of the fabric of Scottish society’ and called on HMRC to ‘go easy’ on them – he can refer to these statements when he says ‘no more’ to Charles Green rabble-rousing – which would show he clearly isn’t bias against them, but appalled by what they are doing.
Or am i missing something? when Sevco can get the First Minister’s of Scotland and Northern Ireland to praise them to the high heavens as a vital part of our economy(!) and our society – then what hope is there that the judges, the media, the police, the creditors owed millions, would every speak out?
t’was always thus as my late grandfather would say
John: Chapter11 verse35: “Jesus wept.”
on the basis of the capital put in by the sevco consortium and the amounts they are seeking via the IPO they should be offering 80% of the company to the fans not 49% but then they are not and never have been Rangers fans nor had Rangers best interests in mind otherwise they would have been far more prudent with Rangers money and aggressively restructuring the company not selling more moonbeams.
I posted this yesterday. It was so long in moderation it seems to have got lost. (Maybe that’s what it deserves.) Apologies for repeating myself.
I wondered whether a risk taking institutional investment manager, Sevco fan or not, might use a small piece that wouldn’t be missed, say 2% of a decent sized fund, to buy Sevco shares.
In light of the expert consensus around these shares, this would be a straight transfer from a general pension fund to CG’s pension fund, as he hinted the other day.
How can those pensioners who do not want this to happen make sure it does not happen?
neveroffside says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 11:38
There needs to be some momemtum of support by the intimidated based on A Thomson’s latest blog. Without that it will be one more brick bouncing off a shameless arrogant hide.
One way of tackling the issue is to
a) recognise there is one.
b) summon the Rangers Board in front of the SFA (backed by the Scottish Government) and tell them that unless they take steps to remove their mob element (they will know who they are) that can be verified The Rangers will not be allowed promotion.
c) recognise that the loss of the bigot pound will come at a cost to The Rangers and offer financial compensation if their plans are seen to be working.
Carrot and stick. The compensation, like all public money spent, is the price we pay for living in a civil society where the law and not the mob rules.
Given the mob’s opposition to the break up of the Union the SNP have nothing to fear from tackling the issue since the mob are against independence.
Charlie Brown says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 11:46
on the basis of the capital put in by the sevco consortium and the amounts they are seeking via the IPO they should be offering 80% of the company to the fans not 49% …
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I’m not really sure why. They are a private limited company attempting to float on the stock exchange. Surely it is up to them how many shares they sell, and how much they sell them for.
Like I said, so long as the fans know what they are buying and how much they are paying for it.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 12:14
neveroffside says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 11:38
I’m sorry, but when a football club has screwed the public purse for multi millions, I would not support a policy where that very same club, is offered more from that very same purse they screwed, to attempt to control a mindless rabble that allegedly is supporting that club. I appreciate you are trying to break a circle, but the idea is, in my mind, crazy.
Apologies if posted already but this article by The Battered Bunnett is a must read for anyone interested in effective league reconstruction.
http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/box-seat-or-back-seat-scottish-footballs-staging-post/snostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/box… …
Box Seat or Back Seat? Scottish Football’s Staging Post
In our first article on league reconstruction, The Battered Bunnet looks at youth development, football finances and European regionalisation – and argues that radical reform is necessary.
scottyjimbo says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 12:30
Call it lateral thinking 🙂
Drain the swamp rather than swap every mossy.
Probably on here already but worth another wee mention! 😉 Superb commentary!
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-green-eyed-monster/
The Rangers’ fans seem to like the idea
—————————————-
“I have just received a letter registering my interest in buying a share in Rangers.
The letter gives my number as 44662.
Now if that’s how many have registered their interest,and the minimum issue is £500,if my number is how many have applied,and say we have all taken the £500 option,that makes it over the £20mill.
£22,331,00 to be exact,can this be true?
If it is,and not my counting,this would be amazing,even by Rangers fans standards.”
===============================
It seems the figure is now over 60,000. If this is true, and they put their money in to finance their new club then the best of luck to them. There is a lot I don’t like about the club (old and new), the fans and their behaviour and attitudes.
However if they are willing to put their hard earned in to finance that new club then fair do’s.