We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
HirsutePursuit says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 16:55
=========================
Thanks for the effort, very much appreciated.
Surely the floating charge will crystalise when liquidation starts, and in effect become a fixed charge over those assets not already covered by an existing fixed charge. Up to the value of the debt owed to the floating charge holder. Is that not how it works.
Surely a floating charge over the all assets of Rangers PLC (minus some specifically precluded and identified ones) is now effectively worthless, as Rangers PLC has disposed of those assets. What it now has in theory is some cash, but that will be eaten up by the administrator and the fixed charge holders.
And also, if Ticketus have not actually made a claim to date (using the floating charge) then can they do it now. Is the period for notifying the administrator of a debt not over. So anything not currently allowed for is effectively lost.
I hear what you say, and appreciate you explaining it to me, but I think the floating charge is a red herring. If it was going to have any effect on the administration / liquidation it would surely have happened by now. The claim would have to be made.
Again I am not saying that the people behind Sevco are not also the people behind Ticketus, and I respect your opinion. I just still see it as speculation. Don’t get me wrong, I would find it hysterical if you were right, as the Charles Green share issue would really be shafting the Rangers fans. Taking their money from them, giving it to Ticketus, and getting Craig Whyte off the hook.
angus1983 says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:57
2 0 Rate This
jmaclure says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:15
Honestly, do you think that Celtic supporters registering for a
Rangers share offer and then posting it on here somehow
enhances the inclusitivity of TSFM?
——
Of course not. That’s why the Aberdeen, Hearts and other
supporters did it too. Far more inclusive.
Hope that puts your mind at rest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This actually cuts to the heart of the matter in respect of the perceptions of some (most?) Rangers/The Rangers fans.
Whilst non-Rangers/The Rangers fans engage in a bit of harmless fun (registering interest in a share issue), some Rangers/The Rangers fans consider that this is an act of hatred by Celtic fans.
Thank you to Angus1983 for confirming that it is far from just Celtic fans that are enjoying themselves.
And yet some Rangers/The Rangers fans will, in the same breath, denounce the very obvious truth behind Alex Thomson’s recent blog about intimidation by some Rangers/The Rangers fans, particularly towards Celtic fans.
I’m not suggesting that Celtic or any other club is whiter than white. But there is, without question, one club that has, historically, cheated and intimidated way, way above and beyond any other. That club is Rangers (and some of its fans).
The Rangers (and some of its fans) show all the signs of following the same path.
That Rangers died; that The Rangers were forced to start life in SFL3; that many, many Rangers/The Rangers fans cannot stomach this is not now, nor ever has been, the fault of Celtic (or its fans).
So it appears Charlie has apologised to Aston Villa for his remarks about them earlier in the week
I’m sure he would also tell them they were taken out of context, and were lost in translation
The man is an out and out chancer !
jmaclure says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:15
Honestly, do you think that Celtic supporters registering for a Rangers share offer and then posting it on here somehow enhances the inclusitivity of TSFM?
…………………………………………………………………………
Over the years I have bought shares in many companies and on occasion been lucky to be able to see a decent return on my investment.
Now if this share issue is as lucrative as Mr Green says it is I would definitely be interested in buying and making a killing on The Rangers.According to Mr Green The club/company/? on a bad day is worth 50million just now and then with the introduction of the euro league,commercial centre, casino, cancer centre etc. these shares look well undervalued and 10 grand now should easily see 30 grand in a three years time with the reconstruction of european football as per Mr Green wishes.
It must be good as Green has said HE will buy any shares not taken up by the fans, which begs the question why bother with trying to get the fans involved if he has that type of money available and the deal is a stick on then just use his own money in the first place and make a fortune.
Why should a Celtic supporter be excluded from buying shares in a company being floated on the stock market?, its a free world and I’m not even sure that legally Green can pick and choose so that only Rangers fans are to be allowed in on this easy money.
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:23
1 0 Rate This
So it appears Charlie has apologised to Aston Villa for his remarks about them earlier in the week
I’m sure he would also tell them they were taken out of context and were lost in translation
The man is an out and out chancer !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It might not be his fault. Maybe his French teacher was useless.
That’s a very good point actually
If Mr Green reckons Rangers will be worth £100m and making massive profits in 3 years time then why is he selling around half of it for £20m.
That would be like giving £30m pounds away, or the equivalent of £10m per year.
Makes you think he is making things up, not a very good businessman, or both.
Agrajag says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:17
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HirsutePursuit says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 16:55
=========================
Thanks for the effort, very much appreciated.
Surely the floating charge will crystalise when liquidation starts, and in effect become a fixed charge over those assets not already covered by an existing fixed charge. Up to the value of the debt owed to the floating charge holder. Is that not how it works.
Surely a floating charge over the all assets of Rangers PLC (minus some specifically precluded and identified ones) is now effectively worthless, as Rangers PLC has disposed of those assets. What it now has in theory is some cash, but that will be eaten up by the administrator and the fixed charge holders.
It’s the small amount of cash that is left for unsecured creditors that is key. As long as there is some benefit (no matter how small) to the unsecured creditors, disallowing the Ticketus claim and the floating charge, makes a difference to the creditors as a whole.
Remember, D&P claim to have achieved the second purpose of administration – but when you look at the headline figures, this does not make any sense. If my theory is correct, they can back up their claim with facts.
And also, if Ticketus have not actually made a claim to date (using the floating charge) then can they do it now. Is the period for notifying the administrator of a debt not over. So anything not currently allowed for is effectively lost.
I think they have contracted with D&P – as part of the sale of business & assets – not to claim breach of contract and make a claim under the floating charge. If this is true, and BDO undo that contract, they would be free to make a claim
I hear what you say, and appreciate you explaining it to me, but I think the floating charge is a red herring. If it was going to have any effect on the administration / liquidation it would surely have happened by now. The claim would have to be made.
As I say, I think the idea is that no claim will be made. That’s the point – it’s simply insurance against the danger of BDO rolling everything back.
Again I am not saying that the people behind Sevco are not also the people behind Ticketus, and I respect your opinion. I just still see it as speculation. Don’t get me wrong, I would find it hysterical if you were right, as the Charles Green share issue would really be shafting the Rangers fans. Taking their money from them, giving it to Ticketus, and getting Craig Whyte off the hook.
I’m slightly conflicted. I went from thinking that BDO would have to undo the sale – and imagining what carnage that would cause – to now believing that the sale will be ratified by BDO.
Neither scenario is likely to be particularly good news for the supporters of the new club
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:23
So it appears Charlie has apologised to Aston Villa for his remarks about them earlier in the week
I’m sure he would also tell them they were taken out of context, and were lost in translation
The man is an out and out chancer !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m sure it was all an *honest mistake/ taken out of context by those pesky reporters/ only half of what he ACTUALLY said. Really he is just apologising for the poor reporting of his comments by the biased Scottish media who are in cahoots with the SPL/SFA and out to get His Rangers.
* delete as appropriate
Agrajag says: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:36
…
If Mr Green reckons Rangers will be worth £100m and making massive profits in 3 years time then why is he selling around half of it for £20m…
===================
What a munificent gesture from Mr. Charles to the fans… 🙄
Agrajag @ 17:36
Charlie has thrown more moonbeams out in four months, than Murray did in twenty odd years
Not one of his claims can be backed up by hard evidence
A fan base of 500 million paying to watch streams of games, a £100 million a year turnover, all utter, utter nonsense
He also wants Scottish football re-organised on his terms, so that the biggest and bestest club in the whole world is top dog again, and will regularly be putting the frighteners on Man Utd, Barcelona and Real Madrid
Sure all of this will appeal to the hardcore Sevconians, but institutional investors, I don’t think so
If it was as easy as Charlie seems to think, why haven’t the major players in world football had any real success tapping into these lucrative markets that Charlie seems to think are just lying in wait for Sevco to plunder
American investors baulked at the idea of investing in Man Utd, but we are asked to believe that hard nosed institutions on Wall Street, and the Square Mile will be falling over each other for a piece of the Sevco action
Charlie, the velcro on the back of our heads is still very tightly joined, and won’t be coming apart any time soon
As for your last sentence, Agrajag, in my opinion he is definitely both
HirsutePursuit says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:45
=====================
Thanks again.
Presumably if there is a deal with Ticketus, and from what you are saying there would need to have been, then it will come out in the BDO report on the liquidation.
The IPO Prospectus (if one is issued) should also provide some clues. Whether it be who the existing owners are, or what is going to happen to money going into the club. Not only the shares themselves but the business plan which makes the whole thing viable.
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:58
Maybe he should have a word with Hugh Adam
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/adam-shakes-ibrox-pillars-with-warning-of-bankruptcy-1-595808
He is adamant that Rangers do not have the customer base to improve their financial standing through merchandising. “Rangers’ so-called global appeal is a myth,” he said. “When I was there, we did an exercise which involved asking 50,000 fans on the database to recommend a friend or a relative abroad.
“A big response was expected – some were even talking about getting 100,000 names – because everybody in Scotland seems to know somebody abroad.
“We got back 2,800 names and three-quarters of them didn’t know they had been nominated. It’s no surprise that Celtic are officially the best-supported football club in North America, with more official clubs than anybody else. The difference is the Irish connection.
“Many Irish people may support Manchester United, Liverpool or whoever, but they all – every one of them – have an affection for Celtic. And, of course, Celtic also have a great Scottish following.
“The difference is that, while the Irish all have an allegiance to Parkhead, there are millions of Scots who not only don’t support Rangers, but actively dislike them.
“Despite the claims of international appeal, Rangers are, essentially, a West of Scotland club. They talk of supporters’ buses leaving from all parts of Scotland, but if you look closely, you’ll see there aren’t many from each area and they are not all full.
I’ve just done a bit of number crunching regarding attendances. At this point, after 167 league matches across the four senior leagues, and bearing in mind we have not had anything like a full Home and Away cycle, average attendances across Scotland are DOWN by approximately 139 people per match. However, we must remember that The Rangers are no longer able to take more than a couple of thousand supporters anywhere, so that is not unexpected.
For information, last year 768 league matches attracted 3,771,021 spectators (4910 ave). This year the 167 matches have attracted 796,811 spectators (4771 ave).
I shall keep an eye on these.
Agrajag says: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 18:07
campsiejoe says: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:58
Maybe he should have a word with Hugh Adam
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/adam-shakes-ibrox-pillars-with-warning-of-bankruptcy-1-595808 …
============
Thanks for the timely reminder.
Would be interesting if the MSM, (English / Gibbons? ), where to ask Adam a couple of questions at this time;
1. Will you be purchasing any shares in The Rangers?
2. If not – why not?
Charles Green has shown himself to be fairly adept at getting across whatever message he chooses to get across, at least to Sevco fans. (He has moved from having had to live in safe houses – after his hotel address was made public on RM – to becoming the new Messiah, lauded and applauded in Northern Ireland, Ayrshire and certain parts of Lanarkshire. And many other places which dont seem to be on the radar.)
He now needs to get a very large number of these people to part with £500, on top of the £250-300 to which they have already waved goodbye. (And many of them have already had shares and debentures flushed down the toilet in a previous life.)
Charlie needs to pull a huge rabbit out of the hat.
Showing the deeds to Ibrox and Murray Park, with his name as owner, would help him considerably at this time, I would have thought.
I wonder why he wouldn’t.
scottyjimbo says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 09:40
——————————————————————————————————————————–
We shall see indeed. So, in a short time, we have gone from ‘the most succulent lamb..’ to ‘0898-ALLY-HOTLINE’ ??
Charlie might be missing a trick here solely confining this scheme to McCoist, what about Willy Pullar? Now thats’s a name for a 0898 enterprise if ever I heard one! Further 0898’s for Durrant and Jimmy Bell too, surely, Mr Green? Peter Lawwel and Dermot Desmond are, i’m almost certain, are at the moment looking about the Celtic Park dug-oot’s, seeing where they can fit a bunch of telephones…give auld Danny McGrain a call (during a live match!!) if you think Izzaguire is slacking…What a visionary we have in Charles Green and yet so many would rather mock…
Blocks of shares at £500 minimum? The whole scheme and what Green is telling everyone about it is just daft and the 0898 thing?? Thats the kind of patter spivs like Charlie generaly use when fleecing old ladies out of small fortunes for ‘investing’ in fly-by-night Cornish investment schemes and the ilk, you see it all the time on ‘watchdog’ and whatever…a bit higher up the chain than dodgy builders and plumbers but quite a bit lower down the chain than Sir Minty Of Fantastical Moonbeams–Lord of All the Savage Beasts of Ibrox and Lamb of the Succulent and Conqueror of the MSM in Scotland in General and West Scotland in Particular and High Commander Of The Brogues So Brown:)
Well Sir Minty had to dip into the world of ‘watchdog’ themed crooks when RFC failed to create interest in it’s availability, he did get short of it–eventually–it then died and now it’s dead corpse has been tied to an old rusty bike, had a hat and a scarve tied round it and taken around the Scottish 3rd division like some kind of freak sideshow–Charlie’s busy telling folks he won’t be taking his team into any premier league or any league higher ‘even if promoted’ (??) because that Euro-Super League is going to be better for his team–£100m is up for grabs apparently–oh, and don’t forget the half a billion fanbase! And amidst the fantasy, Charlie is also doing his utmost to stir up inter-city problems by concentrating his appeal to the lowest.
Meanwhile down in England, most are laughing their heads off after learning of Charlie’s Moonbeams–he’s barely had a few minutes of coverage down there (Blades fans know him however) yet they all seem to have worked out he’s a complete fraudster, and an even bigger clown.–C’mon the Scottish MSM!! You guys have had months of Charlie and his Chocolate Factory–surely even one of you must have twigged something before now??
That’s right, Traynor, Jackson et-al—Why bother having a field day with Charlie (and his investors!) when you can take utterly nonsensical Media House PR statements and make stories round about them–but what does Jack tell you to write when Charlie is making such an arse of himself? I suspect he tells you to write nothing, which is exactly what you do.
When Charlie’s (3rd option / last chance) scam crystalises, will any of the FF crowd turn round and blame anyone other than all afore-mentioned persons?? Nooo….they will blame who-ever the DR tell them–by proxy of Media House of course–and it will be a combo of TGEF, Green, the SFA, SPL. Others will blame Peter Lawwell, CFC, The Vatican, The Illuminati and all manner of socio-ethic-religious type reasons–the Leggat type stuff–which ignores the fact that thousands of company’s go to the wall, businesses that even PAID their taxes too, yes, every year many company’s are lost because they have run out of cash and credit. It happened to RFC mainly due to tax liabilities, overspending, cheating, lying and for over 10 years it went on at Ibrox–it’s a complete shocker, a once in a lifetime corruption scandal which has left a terrible legacy behind, not to mention over a hundred million pound of debt–yet our MSM have reduced this to, basicaly, a technicality–and somehow this notion has transgressed into RFC being bullied and wrongly punished etc etc etc amongst so many of that community. Technicality? Aye, technicaly fraud!
A technicality that Campbell Ogilvie facilitated and a technicality that ensured for over 10 years, RFC dual contracts went through the registration process at the SFA and subsequently, allowed players, illegaly registered, to play domestic and UEFA competition. A technicality that ensured millions of pounds was stolen from other SPL member clubs and a technicality that ensured RFC dominated Scottish football for over a decade.
Technicality? The same ridiculous langauge could be attributed to Enron by that rational.
We write on this blog, many research and personally i am always amazed at what is uncovered here, esp with regards to corporate affairs–it’s not that the info isn’t available, it’s finding it and then deciphering it so that folk like myself can understand it (and even then..) and it’s remarkable that in this day and age, our MSM, for the overwhelming most, still operate in such a peculiar manner–yes, allegiance is one thing–but when the rest of the world are looking in laughing at you, is it not surely time to question what exactly you are doing, and why?
There is still a wee window of opportunity for you, Charlie is there on a plate for you–go on, rip his share intentions to journalistic pieces, ridicule him for being an idiot and tell the Sevco fans what he has did with past companies–then ask Campbell Ogilvie what on earth he is still doing at the SFA. It’s questions he’ll be asked in time anyway–as soon as he returns to civilisation, along with Minty, Johnston, Bain etc–where are they all hiding anyway?? Go on all you MSM hacks, there is a wealth of stuff out there for you to investigate and write about—you never know, the increased sales owing to a new found demographic might just be enough to save your paper! Mirror Group shareholders take note especially.
Ahh, thinking of what tommorow will bring from Charlie—if our old pal Jack (old-gold from RTC) was still about (is he??) then i’d love to hear a preview!
The MSM wont do their job, I can’t make it any more clear!! The football supporting community itself has to challenge Campbell Ogilvie’s continued employement and active influence within the SFA, especially with regards to processes the org may have to follow with regards to the RFC omnishambles (copyright duly acknowledged)
Ogilvie has to go. If our clubs are up for taking up our concerns, then that would help i’m sure but possibly not the way to go. The SFA has to be made to actually engage with the many supporters, of all Scottish teams, and act on their concerns, and in the case of Campbell Ogilvie, do something about the brazenly obvious conflict within the org. Ogilvie simply has to go and go ASAP. Then we will get somewhere.
jmaclure says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:15
Honestly, do you think that Celtic supporters registering for a Rangers share offer and then posting it on here somehow enhances the inclusitivity of TSFM?
——————————————————————————–
The Celtic supporters and fans of other clubs who register for the prospectus want to see what information Sir Charles does or doesn’t divulge to the public. They will then be in a better position to warn the bears re: the risks of investing in T’Rangers dream. Whether their Rangers friends, workmates or bluenose members of their families heed them remains to be seen.
I have read your previous postings on here. I can’t recall you ever telling us that you would be going out of your way to crusade for the future of your club against such vultures as Green. Instead of just coming on here to snipe at Celtic fans, why don’t you go on the various Rangers messageboards and knock some sense into them before it is too late? Remember, when Charlie Boy absconds with the loot, the poor bears (and they will be poor by then) will have to shell out all over again to a new messiah to rescue their club.
Observer says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 01:54
Just a contribution….
TSFM is always alert to ways to make this blog more important. So, in light of recent discussions, what about this?
All discussions on the blog have to be conducted in either Greek or Latin!
Yes: initially usership will drop off, but eventually – as the profs from Harvard,The Sorbonne & Heidlberg move in – this will become the most popular Scottish football/Greek & Latin philosophy Forum on the Web.
The Neds from Dennistoun wull probably slope off, which is to be regretted. But sadly they do not pack the internet dollar that Greek/Latin speakers at All Souls College do & our watchword is “TSFM must stay solvent”.
========================================================================
….”in vino veritas…?”
For my many sins, I am due to attend a conference of “beancounters” tomorrow and heading the bill of contributors/participants is one Andrew Thornhill QC.
In the unlikely event that there may be time for “questions from the floor”, may I ask the blog/bloggers what would be the “top” question to be put to the “Great Man”….?
Dearie me
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essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
2 0 Rate This
For my many sins, I am due to attend a conference of
“beancounters” tomorrow and heading the bill of contributors/participants is one Andrew Thornhill QC.
In the unlikely event that there may be time for “questions from the floor”, may I ask the blog/bloggers what would be the “top” question to be put to the “Great Man”….?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you get paid by the hour?
Did you get paid?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:27
Sort of Essex meets Egypt. …(my edit)
====================================================================
From what I can see of the standards of residential architecture favoured by those employed by EPL clubs in my locality, the Egyptians have not only met Essex, but bought it over…!
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:08
0 0 Rate This
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:27
Sort of Essex meets Egypt. …(my edit)
==================================================
From what I can see of the standards of residential architecture
favoured by those employed by EPL clubs in my locality, the
Egyptians have not only met Essex, but bought it over…!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Apparently) The Egyptians reached civilisation a long time ago. It is conceivable that they passed through Essex on their way here. 😉
http://site.uri-geller.com/why_i_bought_lamb_island
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:07
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essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
2 0 Rate This
For my many sins, I am due to attend a conference of
“beancounters” tomorrow and heading the bill of contributors/participants is one Andrew Thornhill QC.
In the unlikely event that there may be time for “questions from the floor”, may I ask the blog/bloggers what would be the “top” question to be put to the “Great Man”….?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you get paid by the hour?
Did you get paid?
========================================================================
LW…a very pertinent but also very sensitive question. In addition, should I also ask that if you did get paid, did you have tax deducted at source…?…and do you trust the Sevconian management to pay it over to HMRC?
Questions for Anrew Thornhill QC:
essexbeancounter on Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
(1) In light of CO’s involvement in the EBTs do you feel that he should have resigned from the SFA or that the SFA should have suspended him?
(2) We think you became involved in early 2010 when RFC tried to settle out of court with HMRC, or was it earlier ?
(3) We believe that RFC started paying towards EBTs in 2001 – is this correct or was it earlier?
(4) To what extent were you involved with RFC in setting up the scheme – in 2001 or earlier ?
(5) Why is it taking so long for the FTT to report?
(6) Did Rangers have a good case to appeal ?
HirsutePursuit says:at 13:08
HP, I agree, all you articulate very well – is possible. Right not to preclude anything. No secret the take-over was months in negotiation and planning. No secret this factored the BTC in. Reasonable if liquidation pre-destined post BTC there was an end result in view. That end result must have been satisfactory to all parties, as would the viable numbers [incl CL] for all to buy-in, and initiate. But something changed quickly. From available info from the creditors reports, and even maxing funds /assets spreads CW numbers don’t compute by a significant margin. There’s something missing at the start. Uniquely TU are the sole party out of pocket whose funds at the outset made this whole fracas possible by [leave blank]. In fall back, irrespective of whether its 27m or the 18m net or so they actually put in, it’s not unreasonable they may want a speedier solution to recover a fairly sizeable sum put up. Clear, HMRC will go after the tax miscreants but TUs initial tactic was to try to broker with potential owners, fair enough. So your speculative theory holds I`d say – I wouldn’t discount it but I`d venture the aim was an 18m or less recovery not the jumped up 27m if this was indeed a possibility. But as we know a week after the `sale` the CO got involved. That brings in other possibilities for a way forward if they were so called `duped` so to speak. Expensive, but could parties have quickly changed tack and settled “out of court” shall we say, to minimise fallout, and pesky horrid investigations? It might take a wee bit of time to sort out but advantageous to those in difficulty on this. Even might leave a few crumbs for a wee public spat with CW to keep the story `on the road`. As an outside the box speculation side bet, who knows? – Even a wee deal with the present circus to minimise the settled expense? But nothing like the full whack – which is not do-able on that business in any event – even over 5 years say – but enough to `keep the peace` so to speak. So I agree there could be something big enough there still, just not convinced the number 27 is in there or anything near it – just not viable on the numbers or net security values. Then again, could be something else entirely given they haven’t told us anything meaningful in reality. We can just post more hypothetical speculation fun as usual 😉
Having bored everyone to bits on the above, the serious point is that I fundamentally believe it to be incorrect aka very wrong, to ask working football supporters, yes any supporters with families to support, and it will involve the decent types of that clubs football supporters, to shell out 20m of hard earned money without this whole rotten spiv business having been cleared up beforehand – or a clear explanation of what’s going on. They’ve had now eight very expensive months to do `something` and failed even the `something` bit – and it’s not good enough by the various high paid authorities. Are we to believe it’s not just the spivs and MSM /PR who are no good?
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:19
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:08
0 0 Rate This
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:27
Sort of Essex meets Egypt. …(my edit)
==================================================
From what I can see of the standards of residential architecture
favoured by those employed by EPL clubs in my locality, the
Egyptians have not only met Essex, but bought it over…!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Apparently) The Egyptians reached civilisation a long time ago. It is conceivable that they passed through Essex on their way here.
http://site.uri-geller.com/why_i_bought_lamb_island
========================================================================
LW…pure dead wicked!
PS I think you should get out more…since I do envy the depth or your research and knowledge!
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:25
0 0 Rate This
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:19
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:08
0 0 Rate This
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:27
Sort of Essex meets Egypt. …(my edit)
==================================================
From what I can see of the standards of residential architecture
favoured by those employed by EPL clubs in my locality, the
Egyptians have not only met Essex, but bought it over…!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Apparently) The Egyptians reached civilisation a long time ago. It
is conceivable that they passed through Essex on their way here.
http://site.uri-geller.com/why_i_bought_lamb_island
========================================================================
LW…pure dead wicked!
PS I think you should get out more…since I do envy the depth or your research and knowledge!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh I do. I can be found, quite often, in the wine aisle. 😀
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:25
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Further reading.
Gary McAllister, Tutankhamun’s half-sister Scota (Scots?) and her Greek husband, King Gaythelos (Gaels?).
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:45
0 0 Rate This
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 20:25
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Further reading.
Gary McAllister, Tutankhamun’s half-sister Scota (Scots?) and her Greek husband, King Gaythelos (Gaels?).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Forgot the link (pesky wine aisle!)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/life-style/real-lives/why-uri-geller-is-hunting-for-egyptian-treasure-on-lamb-1.1010123
HirsutePursuit says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 16:55
‘..If BDO threaten to undo the sale,..’
—–
The power to nullify the sale to Green lies with Lord Hodge and his conclusions as to whether D&P were ‘conflicted’ to the point that they ought not to have accepted appointment as Administrators.
if LH reaches that conclusion ( which, I think, is probably unlikely because of the way ‘conflict’ is difficult to measure), then I think the consequence would have to be that the whole administration process was flawed, and new Administrators ( perhaps even BDO , but not as Liquidators) would have to be appointed and everything would go back to square one.
But in practice, BDO would probably have to act as Liquidators- sell everything asap , rather than try to keep RFC(IA) as a going concern and look for bids.Get right in there, sell the assets.
The sale would probably raise a damn sight more than the value of any ‘floating charge’, and the creditors might therefore benefit.
D&P would get sweet hee-haw and would have to return any fees already paid to them.
In the sometimes Alice-in-wonderland world of Law, this could happen, Maybe it even should happen.
But I suppose even the Law has to keep some kind of grip on reality ( unlike the fantastist, Mr Charles Bucknall Green) , so it probably won’t.
Barcabhoy @Barcabhoy1 1h
Remember less people watched Felix (Baumgartner) than will watch RFC according to Green, and nobody paid to watch Felix yet all will pay for to watch RFC
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
11 0 i
Rate This
For my many sins, I am due to attend a conference of “beancounters” tomorrow and heading the bill of contributors/participants is one Andrew Thornhill QC.
In the unlikely event that there may be time for “questions from the floor”, may I ask the blog/bloggers what would be the “top” question to be put to the “Great Man”….?
—————————–
Were you under any duress to sign off the last set of RFC accounts you signed off and if not did you do so after making sure they passed all relevant requirements to the SFA rule book?
Further reading.
Gary McAllister, Tutankhamun’s half-sister Scota (Scots?) and her Greek husband, King Gaythelos (Gaels?).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m pretty sure they were supposed to have came via Ireland. Was there not a legend they brought the original stone of Scone with them and that’s why the ancient kings were crowned on it?
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
Two questions from the floor for Mr Thornhill – without running the risk of breaking client confidentiality, at what point of the proceedings in MIH v HMRC did you realise that “a big boy did it and ran away” defence was not going to work? And, at what stage did you consider and then deploy the Chewbacca defense? 🙂
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:55
spanishcelt says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 14:17
I got three separate emails to three different email address’s confirming the registration of interest but all with the same number.
Why would that happen ??????????????????????????????
===================================
i had exactly the same experience last night
______________________________________________________________________________
You are probably using the same IP address with each computer, even if different e-mail addresses.
Hirsute Pursuit’s in-depth research strongly suggests a Green/Ticketus connection.
Thank you for putting this work in on our behalf!
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 17:22
66 0 Rate This
angus1983 says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:57
2 0 Rate This
jmaclure says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 15:15
Honestly, do you think that Celtic supporters registering for a
Rangers share offer and then posting it on here somehow
enhances the inclusitivity of TSFM?
——
Of course not. That’s why the Aberdeen, Hearts and other
supporters did it too. Far more inclusive.
Hope that puts your mind at rest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This actually cuts to the heart of the matter in respect of the perceptions of some (most?) Rangers/The Rangers fans.
Whilst non-Rangers/The Rangers fans engage in a bit of harmless fun (registering interest in a share issue), some Rangers/The Rangers fans consider that this is an act of hatred by Celtic fans.
Thank you to Angus1983 for confirming that it is far from just Celtic fans that are enjoying themselves.
And yet some Rangers/The Rangers fans will, in the same breath, denounce the very obvious truth behind Alex Thomson’s recent blog about intimidation by some Rangers/The Rangers fans, particularly towards Celtic fans.
I’m not suggesting that Celtic or any other club is whiter than white. But there is, without question, one club that has, historically, cheated and intimidated way, way above and beyond any other. That club is Rangers (and some of its fans).
The Rangers (and some of its fans) show all the signs of following the same path.
That Rangers died; that The Rangers were forced to start life in SFL3; that many, many Rangers/The Rangers fans cannot stomach this is not now, nor ever has been, the fault of Celtic (or its fans).
_______________________________________________________________________________
Post of the day m’lud
Just a few thoughts at the end the weekend.
Mr Charles puts T’Rangers, potentially, right up with Man Utd, Barca etc. 100’s of millions are going to come flooding through the door at Ibrox.
Yet Mr Charles managed to bag this all for the princely sum of £5.5m (possibly even less if the right deals were done on monies owed etc).
Surely (just like before when the club was up for sale) there must have been someone in the world out there willing to take this on such an attractive proposition. Even better this time round because you could dump the debt.
That was Bill Miller’s initial plan – until he saw the books. The Club 9 folk who helped Miller aren’t any run of the mill guys, they claim they specialize in sports management albiet mostly in the US.
Even if Mr Charles was the man to take this dream forward, he says he is not going to hang around.
Therefore who or what are the potential institutional investors actually investing in?
And if making all this cash it is as easy as Mr Charles claims then why didn’t someone come in when they could have stolen the club and put in CEO of their own choosing as opposed to having to deal with the bluff Yorkshireman.
Why would you want to share such a cast iron opportunity – 20% with fans and 20% with other investors?
Lest we forget the multi millionaire Brian Kennedy has knowledge of running a sports operation or two himself, and had access to some’ inside’ information from the Blue Knights and Paul Murray. Yet he was obviously stupid enough to let this golden opportunity to slip thourgh his hands for the sake of £500k to £1m pounds.
Is anybody watching “The Two Escobars” on now on ESPN Films? Certainly there’s a massive difference of scale, but a lot of the rest follows the same principle, or lack thereof, as in our very own case.
HirsutePursuit
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Great posts HP
My view reflects your analysis from a different angle
1 Ticketus Investors,/Executives ,Craig Whyte, David Grier and Charles Green are Spivs
2 Spivs behave like crooks although fewer of them go to jail.So the MO of crooks fits well with the MO of Spivs
ie
Crooks are creatures of habit They trust nobody especially fellow crooks. Thats why the low life crooks put their pint on or behind the bar when they go to the Loo ( Seriously, watch out for it if you are in a bar in mid morning)
The planning of crooks is often well thought out but tends to collapse through incompetent implementation.Thereafter crooks live from day to day and start making basic mistakes
3 Spivs who exploit company law also use it to protect themselves from fellow spivs. This is their achilles heel and where they get exposed
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So
Ticketus were always aware that Whyte was planning to liquidate RFC and Greir would run a prepack administration which would roll over a lucrative ST contract, give CW the assets and shaft Hector. Green was probably Plan B after a prepack admin failed
And
The CW personal guarantees to Ticketus were only there to demonstrate Ticketus distrust of Our Hero
And
The apparent antipathy of D&P toward CW only reflected their US bosses telling them to act responsibly.This was a change of plan
And
The deal with Green was designed to avoid a charge of alienation of assets by selling cheap.
The counter argument was that removing the Ticketus /Whyte Creditor claims on RFC(IA) was reducing the Creditor list
,,,,,,,,,,,
The Proof?
Somewhere out there is a Ticketus Co ( possibly registered in BVI) who have a floating charge on Liberty Capital , a BVI co who own Liberty Corporate who have a floating charge on RFCG who have a floating charge on RFC(IA)
As a BVI co Liberty Capital are not required to register this fc in the UK or the BVI
Internally within Octopus this Ticketus Co is set to offer Sevco a deal allowing them to purchase Ibrox and MP for a figure which rewards Ticketus and Whyte for their part in the scam
This repayment could effectively be another ST deal which cripples Sevco for years
,,,,,,,,,,
The Weakness?
There is almost certainly an audit trial which exposes all the interconnections. While this may be perfectly legal it could embarass some of the people who invested in the scam. SDM must be quaking in his boots at the prospect of being named
If LH is inclined to throw a hand grenade into this mess he may cancel the sale to Green
I reckon it will take a lot of hard evidence to convince him to do this
If he does it may cause administration of Sevco
wottpi says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 23:40
‘..Yet Mr Charles managed to bag this all for the princely sum of £5.5m..’
—
Indeed.
It’s been a very quiet night on the blog, so I’ve been enjoying reading what the Court could do to administrators found guilty of a breach of fiduciary, duty such as, for example, the deliberate under- valuation of a company’s assets. ( section 212 of chapter X of part IV of the insolvency act 1986 ).
If Lord Hodge were to find that D&P were guilty of such a breach by deliberately buggering about with unrealistically low valuations of RFC(IA) and striking a nice wee deal with CG, to the detriment of the creditors, he could compel them to make good the difference in valuation.
(I haven’t been able to find ( which I was trying to do) any reference to the powers of the Court to set aside anything that the administrators did, if it is found that they were ‘conflicted’.
Common sense would say that if they ought not to have allowed themselves to be appointed, then their appointment and subsequent actions would be null and void.
That’s what I hope will be the case, but, as said previously, the bloody mess that would create would be a legal nightmare!)
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The question I would ask is….”would you recommend EBT’s to used and administered in the same way they were at Rangers FC by Davie ‘moonbeams’ Murray”?
I was listening to RTE Radio na Gaeltachta, got fed up,tuned to RTE Radio One a minute ago, in time to hear Cliff Richard singing ‘Living Doll’.
What a wave of nostalgia washes over me!
1959, on my bicycle on the road to Banchory, wearing an RAF jacket/blouse ( courtesy of my brother in law, who was doing his National Service at the time in Bridgnorth).
Oh, happy days!
essexbeancounter says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 19:46
‘..For my many sins, I am due to attend a conference of “beancounters” tomorrow and heading the bill of contributors/participants is one Andrew Thornhill QC…’
———
as said before, ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis….but only if you stiff the guy with a hard question about whether he will buy shares in CG’s super-duper world-wide fantasy ( and illegitimate) club.
looks like Sandy is a bit off-message:
‘..“The demands and expectations at this club is that we have to get back to the SPL.”
From the Scotsman today.
Apologies if this has been discussed already – (been a busy few days so haven’t been able to fully keep up) – but for me one of the most telling things Neil Doncaster said last week regarding the attendance figures was this: “People had the opportunity to walk away over the summer and chose not to.” His choice of words – “walk away” – was no accident. It was a rejoinder to the Cheeky Chappy and his ilk, a dog whistle to the lot of them, but also to the even greater lot of us who have been outraged and offended at the way this organization has played the victim card and wrapped itself in self-righteousness where contrition and a willingness to make amends are clearly what was called for. It suggests to me that he has no great love for Rangers (to say the least) and that the parasite’s grip is not what it once was. The worm, I hope, has turned.
From P McC:
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 05:27
2 1 Rate This
From P McC:
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
———
What does this actually mean? That he believes they’ll win easily without him, that he backed the wrong horse, or that he’s safely in a new job and can’t be bothered?
Or was it that he didn’t want his track record in football dredged up?
Agrajag on Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 12:24
“What he has rather cleverly done is created a mentality where any attack on him is an attack on the club, anyone questioning him or his motives is attacking the club. Where loyalty to the club is demonstrated by loyalty to him, where support of the club is shown by giving him money.”
So basically he is a combination of “strong man dictator” and american tele-evangelist. I can see that.
Every organisation has the potential to grow into a £100m+ turnover. Did TESCO not start as a corner shop? The only problem is that you won’t achieve it with Mr Bean in charge.
redetin says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 21:56
You are probably using the same IP address with each computer, even if different e-mail addresses.
…………………………………………………………………………………………
I understand that and it was my original thought but that would also mean that GENUINE interests from several working adults in the same house(multiple season ticket families) would also be affected, also things like individuals maybe using the same internet cafe, airport or other large free WIFI area etc.
And IF it did recognize the same IP why still send out three different emails to three different emails address’s with the same ref no?
I still find it strange.
RhobinHood@Londonsavvy
@alextomo have you heard any results about The tax case yet? Results out when?
9halex thomson@alextomo
@Londonsavvy due this week or week after say Ministry of Justice
Squeeky bum time?I wonder if (S)DM has looked out his passport?
I buy the DR and the SM at the weekend when visiting my parents. Whilst not housebound, my Dad struggles to get around and, as he says, “It gives me something to do.”
Flicking past all the repitiion on the Scotland game this article caught my eye.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/record-and-sunday-mail-sportswriters-reveal-1378610
As I read the piece, I was actually impressed by what Mr. Keevins had discovered, especially about the alias of the person who escorted him from the pub in question. Investigative journalism, yes? He even details the restrictions put on said pub and the various factors leading to these. Very thorough.
This Sports Writer then, getting his point in first, bleats of the unfair critcism lauded upon him by Graham Spiers for setting up a photo opportunity some time later. I refer to him as a Sports Writer as he stated that is exactly what he is on the now imfamous Google deleting showdown with Alex Thomson.
On reflection I thought it was quite a thorough article for a Sports Writer. But why was I reading it now?
Are there no other stories to be investigated?
“The Poet” posmill says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 03:33
22 1 i Rate This
… Neil Doncaster … “People had the opportunity to walk away over the summer and chose not to.”
It suggests to me that he has no great love for Rangers.
——
Although you could read his comment as “The Peepil had the opportunity to Do Walking Away over the summer and chose not to.”
😉
The Daily Record, having shut down its football blog – which was really just a daily diet of Celtic fans (and others), ripping into Sevco and Charles Green and the DR reporters – have now restored ‘balance’ to the paper.
There’s a large photograph of Sandy Jardine holding an advert with instructions on how to purchase tickets for next Saturday’s “Glasgow’s oldest derby” against Queen’s Park.
And just incase you missed it, the non article concludes with a repeat of the telephone number and email address of the Sevco ticket office to remind you how to purchase tickets. (Is this cup tie covered by ST’s anyone?)
Someone blogged at the weekend that the DR has always been perceived as anti-Celtic by Celtic fans and anti-Rangers by Rangers fans.
That may very well be the perception of both sets of fans. But in the real world, the DR has shown itself to be nothing more than a propaganda machine, reeking of off the radar succulent lamb.
After a week which has seen the Financial Times and Telegraph slaughter Sevco’s share issue and Charles Green suffering from delerium tremens, the best the DR can do is advertise next weekend’s ‘biggest’ match in Scotland.
What a shameless, gutless rag.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 09:08
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/record-and-sunday-mail-sportswriters-reveal-1378610
As I read the piece, I was actually impressed by what Mr. Keevins had discovered, especially about the alias of the person who escorted him from the pub in question. Investigative journalism, yes?
——
Indeed.
Mr Keevins states: “Personally, I always thought I was due a vote of thanks from the more discerning fans for force-feeding them the information that Celtic needed better management than they had …”
It seems to me that he is the ideal sort of chap, being unafraid to point out shortcomings in the country’s biggest clubs, who should now be allowed to take up the baton and, this time, “force-feed” Rangers fans with the information about what is going on at their club.
Mr Keevins – how about it, eh?
Bawsbust
Could Keevins’ meander down memory lane be a preamble to an article criticising Sevco, I wonder? “Look how fair I am”, etc…
i see alex thomson is under attack now…utter nonsense of course but will be interesting to hear his reply to this………daleks ?? …i should warn you this link could damage your intellect..http://leggoland2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/alex-thomson-now-under-attack.html
Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at 21:00
Barcabhoy @Barcabhoy1 1h
Remember less people watched Felix (Baumgartner) than will watch RFC according to Green, and nobody paid to watch Felix yet all will pay for to watch RFC
………………………………………………………………………..
Felix Baumgartner has broken Rangers Football Club’s world record for the furthest and fastest fall in human history.!
In the Middle East he has come close to getting killed so I’m sure he’ll not be too bothered about the frothings at the mouth of this particular character – if he ever even reads them.
Oooops, mean to quote you blackboab, hope it doesn’t make my pervious post confusing.
Keevins only last week stated on SSB that no matter what he couldn’t call for the head of mccoist because he was a good friend. Just like he couldn’t condemn Campbell ogilvie because in his opinion he was a thoroughly honest man.
Scotland’s media is full of old boys clubs and journalists who are nothing more than fans with pens (see Daryll King).
It’s embarrassing.
Guidi or King, I can’t remember which. It was whichever one works for the DR.
A caller on SSB just over a week ago challenged them on the amount of column inches given to Celtic following one of the best results achieved in the Champions League and compared it to the same given to D3 newest club the same week.
Whoever it was admitted that they were obliged to cater for the majority of their customer base (paraphrasing). I can’t argue with this fact. So there you have it.
He said it.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 10:18
Guidi or King, I can’t remember which. It was whichever one works for the DR.
A caller on SSB just over a week ago challenged them on the amount of column inches given to Celtic following one of the best results achieved in the Champions League and compared it to the same given to D3 newest club the same week.
Whoever it was admitted that they were obliged to cater for the majority of their customer base (paraphrasing). I can’t argue with this fact. So there you have it.
He said it.
——————————————————
I can see the future headlines:
“Rangers in famous victory over their oldest rivals. Queens Park humiliated”
and below that:
other news stories,
“Israel nukes Iran”
“Eurozone collapses”
“Neil Armstrong dies”
Tam Cowan on his Daily Rangers blog:
——
Have Gers fans bought into the whole share issue idea?
Hmmm. Would you throw money at a fella who still insists the SPL threw Rangers out of the league ? Listen up, Charlie. I’ll say this only once. Rangers weren’t thrown out of any league – they were allowed back into one thanks to the SFA and the SFL ripping up the rulebook.
——
Well done, Tam. 🙂
No they weren’t tam.
A new club was leap-frogged into a leage it had no entitlement to be in.
If they were Rangers they would not have needed a registration pushed through, suffered points deductions for still being in administration, and have been seeded in the Cup.
No word how the vote went on Friday re Duff & Duffer’s Final Report to Creditors?
In the past they have been pretty quick getting press releases out.
Are they still needing to satisfy M’Lord the weren’t up to jiggery pokery before the liquidation can begin?
Leggat.
“Whit a lang streak o’ misery!”
copyright – Ma Broon, The Broons annual, Christmas 1976.
Danish Pastry says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 07:44
torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 05:27
2 1 Rate This
From P McC:
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
———
What does this actually mean? That he believes they’ll win easily without him, that he backed the wrong horse, or that he’s safely in a new job and can’t be bothered?
Or was it that he didn’t want his track record in football dredged up?
_________________________________________________________________
What I see here with my totally untrained eye,is an individual,cocky in the extreme,who knows he backed the wrong horse,tried to change sides,changed his mind again,now doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going.He’s probably worried also.
Besides maybe facing disciplinary action from his own governing body,he’s probably been interviewed by Strathclydes Finest WRT Whytes dodgy takeover.
I think he’s just discovered that the only person who thinks he was great was himself and his ego has taken a pounding.
He knows he could be looking a jail time if found guilty to being a party in the alleged fraudulent takeover.
A couple of years ago he was probably the centre of his social circle,the big shot throwing cash at the waiter to keep the wine/champagne flowing as another big deal came up trumps.Today,he’s on his own and the “friends” who were happy to enjoy his hospitality no longer return his calls and his work collegues will view him with suspicion.
He’s in a corner with no one to help him out.
I’d bet that although publicly he’s still swaggering around with an air of invincibility,inside he’s shaking like a leaf with worry.If The polis ask him nicely,pointing out the alternative to co-operation,he’ll sing like a canary.
He just wants it all to go away.
wottpi says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:04
1 0 Rate This
No word how the vote went on Friday re Duff & Duffer’s Final Report to Creditors?
In the past they have been pretty quick getting press releases out.
Are they still needing to satisfy M’Lord the weren’t up to jiggery pokery before the liquidation can begin?
——————————————————
heres a thought……maybe they were under undue pressure from “ra peepil” to issue weekly/daily/hourly statements – i’m pretty sure that D&P’s offices were inundated with abusive calls and emails when they were put into place on 14th Feb
Maybe the intimidation that Thommo mentioned was extended to them – hence the rush to get good news out – maybe this is why they had to pay £120k for PR – out of fears for personal safety, to ensure news was dressed up nicely and the bears were kept as placid as possible
Now that the loyal bears are no longer loyal to RFC PLC, D&P have no need for making announcements/paying pr – they maybe have no interest in being back in the front line of publicity.
They probably all just want to move on – as i’m sure final confirmation that RFC PLC is to be liquidated will upset 1 or 2 bears.
blackboab says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 09:42
i see alex thomson is under attack now…utter nonsense of course but will be interesting to hear his reply to this………daleks ?? …i should warn you this link could damage your intellect..http://leggoland2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/alex-thomson-now-under-attack.html
=====================================================================
Articulate,intelligent,accurate.
none of these can be used to describe Leggos latest rant and It probably doesn’t cross this cretins mind that his latest rant actually endorses ATs blog.
If I was Legoland I’d sue him for using my name as my bricks are more intelligent than he is.
Picked up from an anonymous post at Rangers Rumours:
The Rangers wage bill has went from £30M, down to £6M? Really?
Davis £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). McGregor £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). Whittaker £20K/pw(£1.04M/pa). Lafferty £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Naismith £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Bocanegra £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Edu £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Goian £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Aluko £5K/pw(£260K/pa). Fleck £5K/pw(£260K/pa). McCabe £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa). Ness £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa).
Total = £7.54M/pa.
That would mean the previous wage bill of £30M, has been cut to £22.46M (Without the added wages of the players who signed this season), not £6M.
——
Excuse my ignorance, but how, then, has Mr Charles arrived at the figure of £6m?
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:28
Picked up from an anonymous post at Rangers Rumours:
The Rangers wage bill has went from £30M, down to £6M? Really?
Davis £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). McGregor £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). Whittaker £20K/pw(£1.04M/pa). Lafferty £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Naismith £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Bocanegra £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Edu £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Goian £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Aluko £5K/pw(£260K/pa). Fleck £5K/pw(£260K/pa). McCabe £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa). Ness £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa).
Total = £7.54M/pa.
That would mean the previous wage bill of £30M, has been cut to £22.46M (Without the added wages of the players who signed this season), not £6M.
——
Excuse my ignorance, but how, then, has Mr Charles arrived at the figure of £6m?
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Ally says he’s lost 20 odd players from last season.A lot will have been youth squad or such like.If you added 20 of these at say 50k p/a(probably overestimating) you’d still only be adding another £1m.
However,if you want to sell your shares,you talk up your business.we’ve had Apple,Adidas,Cowboys,20 millionaires etc.
The one that gets it for me though is:
“We’ve the best balance sheet of any club in Scotland and £30m in the bank”.
Is that so?.
Why the rush for the share issue then?.
FWIW a poster on KDS a couple of days ago posted that he’d heard that TRFC were losing circa £35 per day.Only a rumour but if true would mean a loss of around £12m P/A.
How does that figure work with our resident beancounters calculations?.
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:28
1 0 Rate This
Picked up from an anonymous post at Rangers Rumours:
The Rangers wage bill has went from £30M, down to £6M? Really?
Davis £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). McGregor £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). Whittaker £20K/pw(£1.04M/pa). Lafferty £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Naismith £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Bocanegra £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Edu £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Goian £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Aluko £5K/pw(£260K/pa). Fleck £5K/pw(£260K/pa). McCabe £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa). Ness £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa).
Total = £7.54M/pa.
That would mean the previous wage bill of £30M, has been cut to £22.46M (Without the added wages of the players who signed this season), not £6M.
——
1st off, whilst that lists the big names/earners – didn’t sally say they lost in excess of 20 players this summer? OK, that would probably add a little to the departing wage bill, but not a lot.
Also whilst the players who TUPE’d over are ENTITLED to the same terms and conditions – is there any confirmation that any of them actually did?
For example, maybe Sevco have TUPE’d over all the back room staff/employees on their previous terms and conditions, but they could have said to the players – sorry, we can’t afford you – you are free to go or accept this new offer.
Some didn’t accept it – walking away knowing they would get a better offer elsewhere, some decided to stay.
Is it possible that the ones who accepted to stay were part of the “certain assets” who transferred (not the player themselves, but their registration with SFA) and the ones who didn’t were not transferred over and their contract was terminated with RFC PLC (IA) and they were free?
is this possible?