On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.
The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.
I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.
There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.
That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.
That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.
Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.
The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.
The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.
If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.
Auldheid says: (1094)
December 13, 2013 at 12:48 am
Yet another excellent post, Auldheid. You’ve covered quite eloquently much of what I wanted to say in my last post, but didn’t š
Allyjambo- you might not be looking for an apology from anyone other than those in power at rangers, but that apology will never be forthcoming. Therefore it falls on us, the fans of the club, the people constantly being told we are the club, to take that responsibility,
So I will, as follows, DOS was wrong, EBT was legally, as it stands, correct, but morally more than suspect. If it is proved to be legal I will not think it was right. If it is proved to be illegal it will not change my opinion.
Many have postured on here on the future direction of rangers. The future direction for me is simple. We are heading for Hades, but it was not ever thus. We have an income which dwarfs the rest of Scottish football. Spend it wisely, within your means, and you will prosper. Do it not, and you will fail. All I wish is that we do that any success which follows is a bonus. And by virtue of that income, if managed correctly, it may take a long time but you can potentially have the success you desire.
RyanGosling says: (135)
December 13, 2013 at 1:06 am
……………………………..
I can assure you I never viewed it that way…and I’m sure very few others would either…it was written in a context which I would say was a reasonable reflection on discussions in general…
I asked earlier about a potential blog, and the response has been the most positive I’ve had on a post here. I’ve got a hellish day at work tomorrow and a busy weekend, but will start working next week. My next question is – any suggestions on items you’d like me to cover? First thoughts are rangers under Murray initially, EBTs, whyte, green, now, future. Any other suggestions?
Thanks paulmac, it was an honest and decent point I was trying to get across.
Watching American history x now and heard a quote that works well here. “Hate is baggage…we are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Through passion we have strength, and must not break our bonds of affection…and surely they will be, by the better bonds of our nature.”
RyanGosling says: (135)
December 13, 2013 at 1:01 am
It is not our place to forgive you, Ryan, nor, in my opinion, is it up to you to show contrition. It is up to those who held power, to show contrition, as individuals, and to thus encourage the support, as a unit, to do the same. The important point about contrition is, had it been shown, and felt, in good time, then much of the wrong that followed may well have been avoided, and a Rangers, old or new, would have been much better prepared to move forward, in a positive, rather than triumphalist, manner. Good on you for being prepared to stand up and be counted. That makes a grand total of one šÆ
RyanGosling says: (135)
December 13, 2013 at 1:01 am
The funny thing is that as I was writing that I was thinking of how much more forgiving I FELT towards you than I felt towards Bryce. quod erat demonstrandum š .
On the road to reconciliation Truth is the pre requisite and as you know the truth has been deliberately buried both in the wrong doing and in covering it up.
Here is an article from March 2011 on what is needed to go the Truth and Reconciliation path, unfortunately we appear to have gone in reverse.
http://celticunderground.net/nothing-to-see-here-timmy-move-on/
Ally – one on here. I hope we will have more on here but I know there are more. How many? Five that I know of. But i hope many more.
It’d not up to me to show contrition, I know. Nor is it up to you to show forgiveness. But, we are both fans of Scottish football clubs. You hold anger towards my club. I cannot atone for the actions of my club. Nor can I make amends. But I can tell you that I personally regret some goings on.
As I’m sure you do.
Rangers and hearts behaviours / crimes are definitely not the same. But as a supporter, surely you know my anguish at watching your club suffer? We didn’t bring it on.
RyanGosling says: (139)
December 13, 2013 at 1:29 am
I asked earlier about a potential blog, and the response has been the most positive Iāve had on a post here. Iāve got a hellish day at work tomorrow and a busy weekend, but will start working next week. My next question is ā any suggestions on items youād like me to cover? First thoughts are rangers under Murray initially, EBTs, whyte, green, now, future. Any other suggestions?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes. Please cover the sectarian aspects of some of the Rangers support and how you think it could be eradicated.
Train to Edinburgh for me tomorrow morning, so off to bed now. Weekend with the grandkids plus a visit to Tynecastle on Saturday to give the kids there a cheer. Won’t have time for much posting (so apologies to Bryce if he responds to my posts) but will try to keep up with what others write. Have a good weekend, everyone, though we can’t all have a great result.
Final thought for Paul McConville and his family, he touched our lives, and educated many with his words. Thank you Paul, RIP.
Geronimoscadillac it may surprise you to hear it, but I had the same conversation with a die hard rangers fan I know. He mentioned the sins of other supporters and said we were being unfairly singled out. My response was that if we did nothing wrong nobody could ever attack us over it.
But I will answer your question. I’ll be honest, my first instinct is to resort to whatabouttery. But I won’t. I will say this.
The Rangers fan base have, and consider to display, undesirable behaviour. The fact that other fans have done the same is irrelevant, and I don’t think it is a worthwhile contribution to the discussion on the behaviour of rangers fans.
How could it be eradicated? There are laws, apply them. I have expressed contrition for the actions of rangers but I will not express contrition for the acts of bigoted fans. They would be eradicated if the police applied the law.
Allyjambo says: (725)
December 13, 2013 at 1:36 am
I agree it is not Ryan personally that forgiveness is required for, it is the mind-set that sees no wrong or refuses to accept responsibility for wrongdoing that needs to change to allow forgiveness to happen.
Ryan happens to personify one of the two opposing mindsets at play and it is around that axis the debate will revolve with supporters of all clubs finding themselves on one side or the other not based on who they support but on whether their experience has brought them from denial of their mistakes through to knowing the healing power of forgiveness.
Regarding an apology being demanded, there is another point to be made.
There is a group who we are due an apology from – and I would think we are correct in demanding that this group apologise, as they need to not only be accountable for their inaction when they were supposed to act but also their action in bending rules when they should not have been.
This group were supposed to “police” the game in Scotland as part of the self regulation that UEFA expects all of the governing bodies under UEFA to oversee. The fact that not only did they fail miserably in their duties when supposedly over seeing but failing to reign in David Murray’s train wreck financial policy, but also failed to stop the PR nonsense emanating to smear every other club who dared to stand up to this. The labelling of anyone as obsessed or paranoid if they dared to raise their head to question and continue to question this very lack of governance and failure to serve properly the Scottish football public, means they owe us all an apology.
They owe RFC-NIL fans an apology for failing to ensure Murray’s ego did not kill their club.
They owe all other football supporters an apology for allowing Murray’s steroids to kill off effectively other clubs ambitions and putting many clubs in adverse financial positions while trying to keep up with RFC-NIL.
They owe TRFC fans an apology for failing to ensure conditions set out in a 5 way agreement have not ensured the club would be run in a proper and transparent manner.
They owe every other supporter an apology for not ensuring the governance and adherence to rules was enforced without prejudice or favour, by allowing any decision in last 12 years to be tainted by being shown to be less than independent and fair minded, as they should have been.
They owe everyone connected with Scottish football, UEFA and FIFA an apology for dereliction of duty.
The only apology I personally would accept is a resignation from them all – no need for any words as they would be meaningless anyway – and a new single body set up to ensure the governance of Scottish football is fair, transparent and just.
As it should have been all along
How about it Ogilvie, Regan and Doncaster?
Re Rangers fans showing contrition. The majority of them will be taxpayers. That alone should be enough to attract some contrition. Instead I see total indifference to what happened to the taxpayer, and to the many other creditors. At times it seems like people are meant to be honoured by the fact Rangers owe them money, rather than expecting it to be paid back. Ultimately they gauge their club against Celtic, who have paid their way and been managed in a proper manner. Yet still many fans of the club who did not pay their way, and were not managed in a proper manner, portray Celtic and their fans as an underclass.
Ryan
may I suggest you do start with the Murray years ,I would like to hear your feelings on what he actually did for the old club overall .
Bryce9a
Do you think the EBTs were legitimate loans or player remuneration?
Sorry ,won’t be able to reply to any answer as I have to leave for work
Ryan said
Iām considering submitting a guest blog to TSFM for consideration on the perspectives of a Rangers fan on the debacle of the last few years. Would this be something people would be interested in? Thumbs up for yes, thumbs down for no. If over 50% yes Iāll get to work and see if TSFM considers it worthwhile.
———
What would be brilliant if you done it in the style of Smith & Jones (under 30 look it up) with Bryce.
It Could be a potentially perfect side by side example of the two types of supporter the club/company has
bryce9a says: (108)
December 13, 2013 at 7:16 am
I canāt speak for other Rangers fans who perhaps deny any guilt at all on Rangers part ā personally I accept that rules were broken, debts were not paid etc, and that is wrong. The question of what is an acceptable punishment for that rule-breaking is a different one ā personally I donāt believe title-stripping to be an appropriate punishment. Thereās no point going into the reasoning behind that now.
=======================
Any club that consistently and wilfully breaks the rules over a 10 year period should be booted ut of the Association. That is so obvious that it hardly needs stating. After all, for the serious offence of inadvertently missing a signature off a registration form, Spartans were booted out of the Scottish Cup. That was for a mere administrative error.
Perhaps you could explain, for the hard of thinking like myself, why Rangers were treated much more leniently than Spartans for what was clearly a far more serious breach of the regulations. Or is that the words “justice” and “consistency” don’t appear in the lexicon of either Rangers or the SFA.
Your approach amounts to this. Any minor rule breach by a small club, throw the book at them, Breaches of the rules by the mighty Rangers? Let’s find any route which avoids imposing any meaningful punishment. That is a morally bankrupt position, shared, I’m afraid to say, by 99% of the Ibrox faithful.
Folks,
As AJ has pointed out, Bryce appears to be deliberately trolling in order to side-track debate here – although he does find far too many takers as he casts his net. He has been given the benefit of the doubt over the OCNC issue, but he’s at it again. I don’t intend to make him a star, but all these semantics belong in a place where people have the time to discuss semantics. His posts are now in moderation. His place will no doubt be followed by a colleague very soon. Please resist the urge to bite.
TSFM says: (575)
December 13, 2013 at 8:40 am
2 0 Rate This
Folks,
As AJ has pointed out, Bryce appears to be deliberately trolling in order to side-track debate here ā although he does find far too many takers as he casts his net …
————-
Spot on. You’d almost have to be getting paid to write material that dull š
Still, impressive that someone can induce such level of contentious boredom to the blog.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25307307?
Bernie ecclestone under investigation
. . . Vastly undervaluing formula one before selling it
. . . Also – HMRC have alleged – tax evasion – something to do with iirc – family trust funds !?
RyanGosling says:
December 12, 2013 at 10:12 pm
Angus I have repeatedly expressed regret at the conduct of Rangers in many situations. Therefore I feel hard done by on a personal level …
——
Sorry, mate. Necessary generalisations and all that.
I see the issue has been well thrashed out overnight, though. š
As for what I perceive Bryce’s comments have been – if a competitor has plotted a course which is at wide variance to the rules of a competition, and the competition is won as a result of those actions, is it not a natural result that the status of “winner” be removed? (viz. Ben Johnson)
Or is it the case, I wonder, that because no-one knew about the rule-breaking at the time then the “winner” status necessarily remains? (viz. Sandy Bryson Rulebook)
TSFM, apologies if prolonging old-ground debate.
I’m not convinced about this contrition angle, not from the fans/supporters anyway. They are only customers after all, I know fitba is different in that Tesco customers (for example) tend not to sing in the aisles, wear Tesco colours, get Tesco tattoos and all that but they are still customers. One might expect “contrition” from the owners and employees even of, say, RBS, but the customers? I don’t think so. The various owners of the old Rangers and the current version should have gone down the contrition and new start route. They didn’t and, in the end, the rest of us will revel in their subsequent comeuppance.
As for the fans, I suggest it is a matter of their personal pride and dignity that they should have denounced the shafting of their club and distanced themselves from the spivs. The fact that they didn’t and appear to have gone further down the WATP route than ever before is the bit that is hilarious. Whatever happens they will always be a laughing stock to us diddys. They had a choice, they chose, deal with it.
As the AGM approaches, it would appear that jack is concentrating (via RM etc) on the ‘transfer of assets’ line which has been regurgitated, line & sinker, by the msm. This points to a contingency administration of the club, followed by a Rons lead rescue package involving asset (players & grounds) and a scaling back of the supporters expectations. Mr Somers current review of all contracts, Stock bridge’s ‘voluntary’ surrender of Ā£200k, Ally’s pay cut and the Lee Wallace ‘come and get him’, all bear jack’s slimy fingerprints.
Always soften a saddle before you take it for a long ride!
The problem with Bryce, Steerpike and other similar types who have graced our pages is that they lose any credibility because they fail to answer the simple questions.
How are T’Rangers going to get themselves out of the financial clusterfick they are in?
What actions are required to resolve the situation?
Who is best placed to do that?
What are (or what should be) the detailed plans of those who are best placed?
What is a realistic timescale to expect to get back to the ‘top’.
As far as I can see, and the irony is there for all to see, Dave King is the only one telling the truth.
If ‘the club’ wants to get back to the top and sniffing at Europe then its gonna cost tens of millions.
He has intimated that he would be willing to help out.
Other than that people are either running away (McColl), hoping they can rustle up funds from somewhere cause they ain’t got any cash themselves(Requisitioners) or screwing every penny out of the operation (Spivs).
The plan for running the football club should of course be simple.
Your main income at present is coming from season ticket sales and pay as go tickets.
Add on a little more for sponsorship and TV and you have your income.
By all means look for ways to increase revenue but in the main spend within your ‘guarenteed’ income and you will survive.
Korean ‘under the hood’ Pryor back on the scene, says he intends to increase his stake. Or should that read ‘buying if you’re selling?’
Angus,
I’ve oft commented on here that I suspect a significant reason exists why the consequences of rule breaking cause such angst down Govan way. To be clear Ryan I commend your noble effiorts at repatriation and I don’t mean to put words in your mouth directly. (As an aside, from a diddy, east coast supporter who thankfully wouldn’t know a flute from a drum, and I’ve never even heard Radio Clyde š , I would suggest that your piece to TSFM which I very much look forward to avoids the subject of sectarianism as much as possible simply because of its potential to bog down the financial issues that ultimately caused the downfall. My suggestion for what its worth would be to treat the issues in cold hard cash terms firstly. Before the thumbs downers get started that is not to belittle the religion issue in any way).
Sorry, back to your point Angus. I wonder if you did a straw poll of RFCold supporters and asked “If you had pursued a ‘normal’ tax policy in the years 1999-2011, and enjoyed similar banking terms to other clubs, where do you believe the club would have finished on average.” I genuinely believe a significant proportion would answer “top most of the time” and a further proportion would answer “top some of the time.” The Ryans of this world are maybe the half empty glass bears and may have answered “we’d have to make do with 2nd which clearly isn’t good enough.” You want to try 11th mate!
Finally, auldheid – your post on the SFA’s culpability – outstanding
davythelotion says: (276)
December 13, 2013 at 10:02 am
5 0 Rate This
Korean āunder the hoodā Pryor back on the scene, says he intends to increase his stake. Or should that read ābuying if youāre selling?ā
———–
Interesting quote from him in the DR:
Rangers chief executive Graham Wallace has insisted that disgraced former owner Craig Whyte and former chief executive Charles Green have no say in the running of the club.
Hmmmmmmm
. . . No say in RUNNING the ”club”
Is that the same as not being involved in the ownership of certain parts of the assets ???
Ask
Pennnnry
Aka
Hong kong phooey ?
(Or should that be – singapore – i’ll get ma coat)
On the subject of contrition and apologies , I recall that Dave King on the steps of Ibrox did note that no-one had in fact apologised, which he rectified there and then. I cannot remember to who the apology was directed at fans, creditors , fellow clubs. This was around the time the CVA was rejected or perhaps earlier at Admin time.
Charles Green, au contraire , indicated that he had nothing to apologise for and indeed he had saved the club.
Part of the apology problem for Rangers is that this takes them close to surrender monkey territory a very dangerous concept in the Rangers world, so not expecting anything ever in the way of a full contrition.
JimBhoy says: (8)
December 13, 2013 at 9:57 am
Perhaps the amount of TDs you get is more to do with the content in your posts, which have nothing to do with this blog.
Yes there are a lot of Celtic fans who post, but it’s not a Celtic forum and most of us don’t really care whether Ambrose or Neil Lennon are good or bad at their jobs, it’s irrelevant.
The SFA? Now that is relevant!
edit; blu beat me to it!!
I believe you’re probably correct, Smugas.
I’ve been thinking about the “contrition” thing. Certainly the “Club” (sic) could have done more in the way of a public apology – although obviously they were in a position where such an admission of guilt would do them no favours legally.
The fanbase, though – I wouldn’t have expected any grovelling apologies, or even a public proclamation of regret concerning the actions of an Ibrox club they supported.
The surprising and offensive thing has been the actual behaviour of the fanbase – the circling of wagons, the “Rangers Haters” line, the defiance, the siege mentality, the “enemies of Rangers”, the utter refusal to accept there was any wrongdoing by the old Rangers. A level of indifference and acceptance of wrongdoing, a “we’d better keep our heads down for a while” – a mute apology as it were, would have swiftly led to their (re)integration, with perhaps even a bit of sympathy iced with light-hearted banter.
Instead they chose to alienate themselves from the rest of Scottish football by their hollow and misplaced triumphalism.
(… and that doesn’t include you or your like-minded pals, Ryan. š )
Personally, I don’t want want any apologies or acts of contrition
I want admissions from Bryce and those who think like him
I want an admission that the club founded in 1872 is in liquidation
I want an admission of liability for shafting the creditors that have been left behind
I want an admission of culpability for the wrong doings
I want an admission from the SFA, MSM and TRFC/RIFC that they have contrived a situation, that flies in the face of insolvency law, to preserve the myth of continuity, for an organisation at the centre of the biggest scandal in British sport
I want an admission that the SFA have bent and broken every rule, and invented some, for the benefit of one team
I want an admission from the MSM that they have deliberately lied, and actively promoted the deception
I want an admission that LNS was rigged to achieve the desired outcome
I want an admission that Ogilvie, Regan and Doncaster, all operating in the shadows, are not fit to hold office
Will any of these admissions ever come – No chance
All of them will continue to peddle the myth that none of it has anything to do with them
Angus1983 says: (1292)
December 13, 2013 at 11:22 am
1 0 Rate This
———–
There is still an abiding, deep-seated delusion among many.
On last night’s SSB there were a couple of Ibrox voices criticizing Celtic, their CL football, transfers, and so on. It was only a matter of time before THEY (The Rangers) were back matching their old rival. It seems there is a sense that nothing can go wrong again. That nasty man Mr Whyte (who did all the badness, apparently) is now history (though, not part of the purchased history). There was even boasting about Advocaat’s team. The mind boggles.
There is a huge blind spot as to why everything went pear-shaped. And as is being mentioned, any admission of wrongdoing seems not to sit well with a certain mindset.
I still wonder though, if there are enough common-sense supporters, who are football and fair-play fans only, to start a ‘Rangers of Glasgow’, non-triumphalist, Scottish alternative to the present club with its highly-fragmented supporter groups?
Super-Britishness, NI, and the rest of that stuff ain’t going anywhere soon by the looks of it. And those who endorse it will probably put up with anything to be able to attend ‘the spiritual home’ to belt out Rule Britannia, and other selected ditties. But surely there must be a growing body of supporters who can see the whole sham for what it is?
Was running late this morning so got a taxi to work.
Taxi driver “That was some result for Celtic the other night”
Me: “Yeah outclassed by a far better team although disappointing to lose by such a margin. Maybe the attitude wasnāt right with it being a dead game, no excuse for conceding six goals though. Celtic have punched above their weight in previous seasons so need to take the bad with the goodā
Taxi driver āThe worst thing they ever did for Celtic was relegate Rangers tae the bottom divisionā
Me: (Oh here we goā¦)
Taxi driver: āAh mean, thereās Hearts done the same thing and nothing happens tae them and Rangers get 10 points taken aff them and demoted!ā
Me: (Sighā¦Where do you start?)
To my discredit I employed a Graeme Spiers-esque technically itās a new club as they had to transfer membership and start again at the bottom and to well Hearts didnāt go into liquidation type fudge.
I should have mentioned Gretna or Clydebank or tax evasion but I doubt it would have made a scratch against the two feet thick reinforced concrete of his RFC martyr bunker.
The subject was quickly changed to social plans for tonight
Unfortunately I have little doubt this is majority opinion among the average Daily Record, Sun reading, SSB, BBC Shortbread listening bear, which I fear is still the majority of the support itself. He isn’t going to find much enlightenment on RFC forums in any case.
So the Scottish media have succeeded in the impressive feat of alienating everyone concerned and driving a wedge between supporters of RFC and the entire spectrum of fans in Scotland by peddling lies and propaganda in the pursuit of succulent lamb.
Itās difficult to see how Scottish football can be reconciled from here.
Congratulations to our Scottish ājournalistsā and broadcasters who have taken a disaster and made it a catastrophe.
Should the UTT find against RFC(IL), I wonder if LNS will be re-convened
After all, an independent SFA tribunal found that withholding social taxes, was only one step below match fixing and gave the club a sporting advantage
I won’t hold my breath
campsiejoe says: (613)
December 13, 2013 at 11:45 am
Personally, I donāt want want any apologies or acts of contrition
I want admissions from Bryce and those who think like him
=============================
I second that.
MoreCelticParanoia says: (89)
December 13, 2013 at 11:58 am
—
I donāt take many taxis, but that has been my experience recently too. Taxi drivers canāt half rabbit on. Last time, when I could get a word in, I agreed with the guy that a lot of the edge had gone out of Scottish football and, with it, the interest of some people, particularly outside Scotland. But my parting shot was that, while it would be good to recover excitement, and big crowds and overseas interest, sacrificing fairness and integrity was too high a price to pay. And he said he agreed.
Mind working overtime again.
As the only visible asset of RIFC seems to be the monies owed to it by TRFC,is it the case that when the clubs market value(Ā£22m) drops below the debt owed to The company that TRFC will be insolvent and that would be a good time for the company to call in the debt,ie,take control of the properties?.
bryce9a says: (108)
December 13, 2013 at 7:16 am
I canāt speak for other Rangers fans who perhaps deny any guilt at all on Rangers part ā personally I accept that rules were broken, debts were not paid etc, and that is wrong. The question of what is an acceptable punishment for that rule-breaking is a different one ā personally I donāt believe title-stripping to be an appropriate punishment. Thereās no point going into the reasoning behind that now.
__________________________________-
Title stripping isn’t a punishment. You cheat – you aren’t entitled to your trophy/medal/title. It’s simple cause and effect.
Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong should be entitled to keep his titles?
No wonder you don’t want to go into it further.
wottpi says: (1322)
The problem with Bryce, Steerpike and other similar types who have graced our pages is that they lose any credibility because they fail to answer the simple questions.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The real problem with our “paid for” posters is they are not here because they are concerned football fans and want to see changes.
They are mercenaries who are paid to distract or to try to get influence for a particular point of view.
It should come as no surprise to any of us that our wee blog is monitored by most if not all the people we talk about on it.
We offer free analysis and insight, wonderful insight on occasion that is streets ahead of what is in the back pages and although many of our contributors are Celtic minded many of us are not.
A proud diddy backbone running right through this blog makes us quite a collection of opinions but we are united by a passion for fair play and a desire to see our game cleaned up.
The likes of Steerpike, and Bryce are just mouthpieces for others who seek to manipulate the discussion for whatever their personal ends are.
Personal ends that are easily enough spotted by most of us because they are nothing to do with fair play.
MoreCelticParanoia says: (90)
December 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Title stripping isnāt a punishment. You cheat ā you arenāt entitled to your trophy/medal/title. Itās simple cause and effect.
Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong should be entitled to keep his titles?
No wonder you donāt want to go into it further.
__________________________________
Sandy Bryson would no doubt agree Lance Armstrong should be able to keep any titles won prior to being caught so maybe it’s not such a mental idea after all !!
here is a post/mail from CQN in 2006…..might provide some perspective on the whole “Death of Rangers” thing
it’s pretty much a Celtic/rangers business model thing……sorry to the “diddy club” fans who won’t be interested. But this is what Celtic fans were thinking about 7 years ago.
Rangers gaping financial hole gives Celtic historical income advantage
Now that Celtic have released their Preliminary financial results for last
season, and Rangers have released their audited accounts, a comparison of
the clubs relative financial footing provides a compelling look into the
future.
Last season Rangers turnover reached Ā£61.1m, up Ā£6m from the previous season
as a result of their Champions League run. By comparison, Celticās turnover
was Ā£57.8m, remarkably, only Ā£3.3m less than Rangers, despite not having a
European gate (the Artmedia game was on the season book).
The comparison becomes more interesting when you look at the figures Rangers
give for their Continuing Operations (now that retail operations have been
sold to JJB).
Last season, Continuing Operations generated Ā£43.4m, up from a corresponding
figure of Ā£34.4m during the previous season, when Rangers reached the Uefa
Cup group stage (which they hope to emulate this season).
With Champions League income, this season, Celtic will turnover at least
Ā£70m. Rangers turnover this season will not be far away from the Ā£34.4m
income they generated from Continuing Operations in 2005.
Net Operating Expenses (the cost of running the club without wages and
certain other variable costs) are comparable. Rangers recorded Ā£18m for
2006, Celtic recorded Operating Charges at Ā£19m for 2005 (the 2006 figure
will be released in the final audited accounts, due shortly).
With Net Operating Expenses of Ā£18m, and turnover that will be close to
Ā£34.4m, Rangers will only have Ā£16.4m available to pay for football
operations and interest. A figure which explains why so little of the Ā£18m
received from JJB went towards signing new players.
This compares to Celticās Operating Charges of Ā£19m (which includes
non-staff retail costs). Celtic do not release a figure for retail-only
staff costs, however, it is likely to be close to the Ā£2.6m Rangers detail
in their accounts, which, if added to Celticās Operating Charges, would give
Celtic a core operating cost of Ā£21.6m including retail staff costs.
On an anticipated turnover of Ā£70m, these costs would leave Celtic with
Ā£48.4m for football operations and interest.
In recent years, an enormous gap has opened up in key income streams between
the two clubs, which resulted in Rangers only turning over Ā£3.3m more than Celtic
last season, despite reaching the knock out stages of the Champions League.
This season will see the gap exaggerated in the other direction, as Celtic
gain Champions League income and Rangers do not, however, on the assumption
that Celtic and Rangers perform similarly in Europe in future (a possibility
I am only prepared to consider in theory), Celtic have a built in financial
advantage possibly reaching tens of millions of pounds each year.
My friends in Celtic, I have, on occasion, alluded to my belief that Celtic
are destined to enjoy a Generation of Domination of football in Glasgow.
This concept does not sit comfortably with many who have been scarred by our
years in the desert, but financial outlook for both clubs should be plain to
see.
With a smaller stadium, capable of generation less money, a brand that
generates less commercial income and now having sold their retail rights for
the next decade, Rangers have structural limitations on income growth
stretching a decade or more before them.
Celtic have never know such a financial advantage in their 118 year history,
the Generation of Domination is real.
(Generation of Domination – how i hated that phrase, but I think the only thing that is out was the timing. Not long after this, Walter returned, money spent, trophies bought, tax avoided, RFC died and were liquidated)
MCP
Re your taxi driver. I have found “Ignore Hearts, think Gretna” to be quite effective. Also shorter, less effort and saves you saying anything for the rest of the journey. You’ll either get huffy silence (albeit on a journey that seems strangley longer than usual) or a Speirs-esque monologue about clubs and companies and bad men which you can always ignore.
STV news headline ;
‘Sectarianism ‘will not be tackled until society stops avoiding issue”
Indeed,and so say all of us.
Of course another ,equally relevant headline might be,
‘Rangers will not be tackled until SFA stops avoiding issue’
Not one you will see in the press though.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1061)
December 13, 2013 at 12:46 pm
Not long after this, Walter returned, money spent, trophies bought, tax avoided, RFC died and were liquidated.
—
The alternative was laid out in the CQN piece. The alternative was unthinkable.
Finloch says: (239)
December 13, 2013 at 12:26 pm
‘….It should come as no surprise to any of us that our wee blog is monitored by most if not all the people we talk about on it..’
——–
Morally defective people (at least,those who are not actually sociopaths) know that they are ‘bad’.
They absolutely need to lie to themselves and others; they need to pile untruth upon untruth in the hope that they will be believed; in the pathetic hope that their further lies will hide the leprous blotches on their souls and consciences.
Still more, they need to seek confirmation from others that what they have done is not wrong, or to insist that, if others might consider it wrong, then ‘this remains among us, and goes no further, ok, guys?’
But, of course, they live in fear-whether they be the Emperor Tiberius, or that North Korean uncle of the fat boy who has just had him bumped off.
And their fears are justified. They can trust nobody, but must constantly guard their backs, cover their traces- and, ultimately, be ready to save their own stinking carcasses(is that the right spelling?) by selling out on their accomplices.
You bet they read this blog, in dreadful anticipation that some line of enquiry, some little bit of evidence, some leaked email or taped conversation might appear to further blow their credibility sky-high.
And those in ‘semi-public’ office will be the most avid readers of all.
RyanGosling says: (141)
December 13, 2013 at 1:23 am
33 9 Rate This
Allyjambo- you might not be looking for an apology from anyone other than those in power at rangers, but that apology will never be forthcoming. Therefore it falls on us, the fans of the club, the people constantly being told we are the club, to take that responsibility,
So I will, as follows, DOS was wrong, EBT was legally, as it stands, correct, but morally more than suspect. If it is proved to be legal I will not think it was right. If it is proved to be illegal it will not change my opinion.
==================================================
You seem to have forgotten that 5 of the EBT claims were found in favour of HMRC. Not missing signatures or incorrectly filled in paperwork but 5 cases where the tribunal found RFC guilty of defrauding the taxman. That’s cheating in anyone’s book.
Can’t see any signs of an apology or contrition when some just don’t get it.
(from the LSE share site)
Today 13:04 PorkieDigits RE: rangers 35.00 No Opinion
Anybody any view of how EBT’s compare versus Dermot Desmond (allegedly!) personally bank rolling 1/2 of the Keane sisters wages at the time? Is that not the same thing?
Interesting choice of words “no influence over board decisions”, Is he saying they are still there in the background?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25359215?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Sandy Easdale, the new chairman of Rangers’ football board, says former chief executive Charles Green and his associates have no influence on decision-making at Ibrox.
The businessman was speaking six days before the club’s annual meeting.
Easdale, who now has voting rights over more than 26% of shares, says he is utterly confident the current board has sufficient support to remain in place.
And he has urged supporters to get behind the current regime.
In the latest protest against the board on Saturday, thousands of fans held up red cards supplied by supporters group the Sons of Struth at Ibrox during the League One victory over Ayr United.
It came in the wake of the continuing boardroom battle that followed the departure of Green, who led the summer 2012 purchase of Rangers.
A successful court action in October by a group of shareholders forced the postponement of the AGM and a vote on their potential appointments.
Former chairman Malcolm Murray, former director Paul Murray, Scott Murdoch and Alex Wilson are hopeful of winning a place on the board.
However, Rangers have since appointed Graham Wallace as chief executive and David Somers as chairman of the PLC board, on which they have been joined by Norman Crighton.
Bus tycoon Easdale was speaking the day after Rangers chief executive Graham Wallace told Sky Sports News he would have no problem working with any of the four requisitioners seeking election to the club’s board.
However, the disgruntled shareholders’ main complaints have been aimed at finance director Brian Stockbridge and Easdale’s brother, James, on the PLC board.
For his part, Paul Murray insisted he had no problems with Wallace’s appointment and added: “We are not saying that the whole board has to be ousted.
“We want the best board to take the club forward.
“I think the most important thing after the last two-and-a-half years is trust and transparency.
“People have to trust the people on the board and that has actually broken down in the last two-and-a-half years.
“We have a couple of individuals on the board who have been there for most of the last 12 months and we have made our views clear on them in terms of the lack of stewardship and financial mismanagement.
“There have been three new directors appointed in the last month and we think, certainly, Graham Wallace looks like a credible individual.”
Why is Sandy Easdale passing comment on the PLC board
It has nothing to do with him, or is it simply a case of confusing the PLC with the club yet again
is it simply a case of confusing the PLC with the club yet again?
So is it not the same thing then? Only joking.
RyanGosling says: (141)
December 13, 2013 at 1:58 am
Geronimoscadillac it may surprise you to hear it, but I had the same conversation with a die hard rangers fan I know. He mentioned the sins of other supporters and said we were being unfairly singled out. My response was that if we did nothing wrong nobody could ever attack us over it.
But I will answer your question. Iāll be honest, my first instinct is to resort to whatabouttery. But I wonāt. I will say this.
The Rangers fan base have, and consider to display, undesirable behaviour. The fact that other fans have done the same is irrelevant, and I donāt think it is a worthwhile contribution to the discussion on the behaviour of rangers fans.
How could it be eradicated? There are laws, apply them. I have expressed contrition for the actions of rangers but I will not express contrition for the acts of bigoted fans. They would be eradicated if the police applied the law.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m pleased you’re not going to resort to whataboutery because that means it must be possible for decent Rangers fans to discuss how to eradicate this running sore by agreeing it is unacceptable in the 21st Century. The Police can apply the law but is there something the decent fans and The Club can do?
I’m not looking from contrition from you or anyone else on this matter because from what I read of your posts on here you seem to be a civilised bear. What I would prefer are suggestions on how to prevent Rangers being a rallying point for all sorts of loyalist/sectarian bampots.
I look forward to reading your blog for TSFM and will approach it with an open mind. Who knows it might even encourage other Rangers fans to enter into the debate on here (i hope it does as the time has come for some coming together of the different camps in all this).
The Guardian gives the SMSM a well deserved kicking.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/13/raceandreligion-scotland
nowoldandgrumpy says: (751)
December 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm
…
For his part, Paul Murray insisted he had no problems with Wallaceās appointment and added: …”certainly, Graham Wallace looks like a credible individual.ā
===================================================
[Assuming quote is correct.]
This Paul Murray…words fail me !
Did he make the above comment with a straight face ? I think we should be told.
This is the former NED of the liquidated Rangers plc giving his endorsement to a current RIFC plc director…as being a ‘credible individual’ ?
I am gobsmacked that any TRFC fans at all would give this Paul Murray character the time of day.
Must be truly desperate times down Govan way… š
nowoldandgrumpy says: (751)
December 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm
Interesting choice of words āno influence over board decisionsā, Is he saying they are still there in the background?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25359215?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
āWe have a couple of individuals on the board who have been there for most of the last 12 months and we have made our views clear on them in terms of the lack of stewardship and financial mismanagement, said Paul Murray, a former Director who financially mismanaged the club for a lot longer than 12 months which led to its extinction”
Sometimes I just wish the MSM would report all the FACTS. I’ve tried to give an example above and hope they are reading and learning
On apologies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18687492
Rangers: Malcolm Murray issues apology from club
Chairman Malcolm Murray has issued an apology on behalf of Rangers for the “distress, disruption and difficulty inflicted on the football community”.
“We are acutely aware that events at our club, brought about by people who are no longer here, have triggered a crisis in Scottish football,” he said.
“Ally McCoist, the staff and players have nothing to apologise for.
“But the club needs to make an apology. It is only right that someone expresses our sorrow and regret.”
Tif Finn says: (1000)
December 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
Issued just before they were pleading for membership of the SPL
From memory it was just a wee bit insincere
on the bbc webshite
. . .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25359215
. . .”It came in the wake of the continuing boardroom battle that followed the departure of Green, who led the summer 2012 purchase of Rangers”.
green did not buy “Rangers” so why are the bbc saying he did.
i thought that the bbc had this out with the bbc board. that the reporting was to be accurate !?
Just listened to one of the Easdales on Radio Shortbread talking about how Charles Green is not influencing Board decisions “at this moment in time”. Very evasive stuff with some carefully loaded statements that felt designed to be deniable at some future date. Some good coaching there by Jack Irvine. Good to see him earning his big fees at last.
Tif Finn says: (1000)
December 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
0 0 Rate This
On apologies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18687492
Rangers: Malcolm Murray issues apology from club
Chairman Malcolm Murray has issued an apology on behalf of Rangers for the ādistress, disruption and difficulty inflicted on the football communityā.
āWe are acutely aware that events at our club, brought about by people who are no longer here, have triggered a crisis in Scottish football,ā he said.
āAlly McCoist, the staff and players have nothing to apologise for.
āBut the club needs to make an apology. It is only right that someone expresses our sorrow and regret.ā
=====================================
Apologising for the fall-out of being caught cheating is not the same as apologising for cheating.
Who will Smudger blame now?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25363841
No1 Bob says: (68)
December 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That headline isn’t actually what the Academic on Radio Shortbread said. In fact he distanced himself from it and explained what they had actually found during their research. Best bet is to read the report and ignore the regularly inaccurate BBC News.
from FF
___________________
Minutes from VB / Stockbridge meeting
http://www.*************.co.uk/minut…ockbridge.html
************* Admin have decided to publish the minutes from our delegates’ meeting with Rangers Financial Director Brian Stockbridge.
Unfortunately we have been unable to have a face-to-face meeting with Paul Murray. We had hoped to publish both sets of minutes simultaneously, giving Rangers shareholders and fans a chance to scrutinise both, but with less than a week to to AGM we felt we could not wait any longer.
As with all meetings, ************* can only take the answers we are given in good faith. Without evidence to the contrary, it is hard for anyone to contradict what is given to us. However rest assured that if any answers are proved to be incorrect then we will not hesitate to take action in addressing these issues.
It should also be noted that the minutes below are not verbatim, but are given as bullet points of the overall discussion.
Furthermore, with the impending AGM looming large on the horizon we would also like to reiterate that all members of VB and the wider Rangers support are encouraged to vote to the dictates of their own hearts and minds. Their vote is their own prerogative.
Hopefully after the result of this vote then ALL Rangers fans will accept the democratic outcome and work together for the good of the club we all support.
Finance
Mr. Stockbridge explained why the costs of IPO flotation were high, he came across as confident in his explanation of it, as an example; Lawyerās fees were doubled as they were paid in both England & Scotland.
He confirmed that the doomsday quote by auditors of having āonly Ā£1M in the bank by Aprilā was based on the current cash burn rate and assuming the worst case scenario where there would be no further incomings from now until April.
With regards to Ally taking a wage cut, he said that it was not as straight forward as was being portrayed in the press.
He inherited excessive wages for players not of the standard expected and he still has players on the books who are earning more than Ā£7000 a week.
He realises that having a manager and two coaches taking a huge wage is not prudent for the league we are in.
Squad/Squad Management
Mr. Stockbridge wasn’t happy with the way things were progressing with developing youth for sale to assist with future financing of the club. Agreed that the wage bill on the playing/playing management side of things was far too high for where we were in the league set up. He wanted Mather to address that for some time but Mather was too nice and didnāt want to rock the boat.
Mr. Stockbridge also thinks there has to be a realistic view on what can be spent now in order to prepare the squad for our return to the SPFL. Like all managers and Financial Directors there will be differences of opinion on what can be spent achieving this.
Craig Mather
Mr. Mather left of his own accord in part because he didnāt want to face the storm of an AGM, and partly because he was pressed into walking away by major investors who were unimpressed with how he was dealing with things. The time of departure was co-incidental to the court decision regards the AGM.
New Board Members
Mr. Stockbridge hopeful of appointing two Non-Executive Directors shortly. Both from a financial, corporate governance and non-football background. Both Directors will be involved in the decision-making process for the new CEO which is expected to be announced the week after the two Non–Executive Directors. New CEO will be of a level that has never been seen at the club before and has experience of working at a top English club.
Itās not Derek Lambiass, although he did say he knew him. The CEO will be instructed to sort out the playing side of things both financially & structurally. Likely to be paying similar for his services to what Criag Mather got (approx. Ā£300k a year). One applicant already interviewed wanted Ā£1.5m and was rightly rejected.
Annual General Meeting
He is very confident that the support is there from current shareholders to nullify any potential threat from the requisitioners. He expects Laxey Partners to side once again with the Board.
It cost almost Ā£40,000 to reprint documents for rescheduled AGM.
Mr. Stockbridge said he was disappointed in the lawyers advising the club that they’d win the court case and said he’ll be addressing that.
Investment
Mr. Stockbridge claims to have made good headway with regards to attracting interest from potential new investors, however a lot of these potential investors understandably require stability in the boardroom before they will invest, a fact that the people causing unrest for the club fail to grasp.
Sports Direct
Mr. Stockbridge claims he has renegotiated better terms on the merchandising contract with Mike Ashley.
He said he told Mr. Ashley that any stadium renaming has to be put on the back burner for now, regardless of a signed contract being in place for the renaming rights.
Media/PR
WiFi at Ibrox and the Rangers āAppā are poor and he is refusing to release it in its current form. The whole media side of things needs a complete overhaul.
The issue was raised about the company’s PR strategy. Stockbridge said that Craig Mather was directly responsible for the hire of Jack. Irvine and Media House, that being said, while Mr. Stockbridge is acutely aware of the discontent amongst the support of aspects of the clubs PR, he says that it is a ‘work in progress’ and the club will be addressing it specifically, after the AGM has taken place.
Dave King
It is not cut and dried yet that Dave King will be allowed by the SFA to hold a position at Rangers. Mr. Stockbridge wants Mr. King on board, saying that Mr. King doesnāt give much away to anyone from all sides and plays his cards very close to his chest.
Craig Whyte
As far as he is aware Craig Whyte is not involved with either Blue Pitch or Margarita Holdings.
Paul Murray
Mr. Stockbridge thinks Paul Murray will continue his campaign of getting control even after failure at the AGM. Mr. Murray was offered a place on the Board but declined it and was asked to talk with the Board regarding the postponed AGM to come to an amicable agreement, but again declined.
Supporters and Supporters Groups
It is Mr. Stockbridge’s opinion that there are disruptive influences in the support. He is keen to go down the road of introducing a Fans Membership Club. He is keen on establishing an Official Rangers Membership Scheme which would mean significant change in the way things operate currently. All of these ideas may of course change when the new CEO is appointed.
Malcolm Murray
We brought up the issue of the Malcolm Murray video, there had been four or five times that Malcolm Murray had been intoxicated and Mr. Stockbridge thought it wasnāt the standard expected of a Rangers Chairman. Stockbridge recorded Murray and showed it to a convened internal Board meeting comprising of Charles Green, Imran Ahmad and Malcolm. Murray. They all had copies of it. Mr. Green & Mr. Stockbridge deleted their copies. Mr. Stockbridge believes that Imran leaked the video to YouTube to get back at him.
Mr. Stockbridge said that he paid a Ā£50k electricity bill out of his own pocket which is contrary to Malcolm Murray’s claims that he himself paid it. Without official documentation or proof this is one person’s word against another.
Malcolm Murray, whilst Chairman, signed off on the bonus contracts which Mr. Stockbridge, Mr. Green and Mr. Ahmad held.
Walter Smith
Email on Charlottes Fakes was doctored to suit. Mr. Stockbridge and Walter Smith corresponded on the phone where Mr. Smith agreed that heād be taking on the Chairman role full time. Mr. Stockbridge has tried to get Charlotte Fakes shut down by contacting Twitter, however a new account appears just as soon as the previous one is deleted. Mr. Stockbridge says he doesnāt know who it is.
Blue Pitch & Margarita Holdings
Mr. Stockbridge canāt disclose the names invloved but said that there is a major insurance player who is involved with Blue Pitch.
He says he knows Rafat Rizvi but heās not involved, and if he was on Interpolās wanted list then why isnāt he arrested when heās in London, which is often?
Mr. Stockbridge denied being the man behind Margarita Holdings.
When asked if the names of those behind both investment groups are known can we expect it to be a major problem for the fans and indeed the club, he said ānoā.
Imran Ahmad
He is confident that Mr Ahmad wonāt win his Ā£500k claim. The alleged contract is worthless according to Mr. Stockbridge.
Puma/Blackthorn
Mr. Stockbridge didnāt agree with the one-year deal, and said he will try to negotiate longer term deals as itās more beneficial. He denied that Mr.Green and Mr. Ahmad pocketed the Blackthorn cash
________________
Mr. Stockbridge explained why the costs of IPO flotation were high, he came across as confident in his explanation of it, as an example; Lawyerās fees were doubled as they were paid in both England & Scotland. š š
tomtom says: (519)
December 13, 2013 at 4:46 pm
5 0 Rate This
Tif Finn says: (1000)
December 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
0 0 Rate This
On apologies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18687492
Rangers: Malcolm Murray issues apology from club
Chairman Malcolm Murray has issued an apology on behalf of Rangers for the ādistress, disruption and difficulty inflicted on the football communityā.
āWe are acutely aware that events at our club, brought about by people who are no longer here, have triggered a crisis in Scottish football,ā he said.
āAlly McCoist, the staff and players have nothing to apologise for.
āBut the club needs to make an apology. It is only right that someone expresses our sorrow and regret.ā
=====================================
Apologising for the fall-out of being caught cheating is not the same as apologising for cheating
———————————————————————————————————————————
So the apology was only for the “football community”
What about the business community and the emergency services community? Does no other community deserve an apology for RFC(IL) not paying their bills and cheating?
They should have been expelled and had their history expunged from the record books but Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie also cheated by not applying the rules.
andy says: (275)
December 13, 2013 at 4:56 pm
from FF
___________________
Minutes from VB / Stockbridge meeting
…
Mr. Stockbridge said that he paid a Ā£50k electricity bill out of his own pocket which is contrary to Malcolm Murrayās claims that he himself paid it. Without official documentation or proof this is one personās word against another…
==================
So either the current FD Stockbridge, or the prospective director Malcolm Murray is telling a lie ?
Should be easy to follow up / prove.
If I paid a GBP 50K leccy bill on behalf of my employer, I am pretty sure I would have a receipt / confirmation of payment for my records.
And I presume that whoever supposedly paid this bill was reimbursed ?
You would think that an FD must have proof of payment which he can quite easily produce for the MSM – and it could get Stockbridge some much need brownie points with the fans before the AGM ?
But if I was Stockbridge, I would already have been waving about the proof of payment to anyone who wanted to see it – to confirm that I was a selfless ‘Rangers’ man who was prepared to use my own money to keep the lights on !
But he isn’t…so he probably didn’t, [allegedly]. š
Been lurking since just after transfer to TSFM. Had account issues and never rectified but feel I must log back onto this blog, which is by far the best way of getting any info on the on going saga. It really has reached epic proportions and the main men(and women) on here deserve a whole lot of credit. Had it not been for them (pesky kids) then they would have got away with the loot without any questions. Rangers fans should be thanking all the clever people on here who have never given up. My main reason to post again is to highlight again how the SFA continue to have double standards with regards rangers and every other team and levels of football. My club was fortunate to apply for and receive sfa quality Mark…. before you laugh this a standard to be achieved by amateur football’s clubs to prove they are run correctly and are showing good governance and development. A process shrouded in paperwork that is checked and double checked to ensure all information supplied is correct and above board(sound familiar?) . The upshot is that my club passed all checks and were invited to hampden to receive our award. Due to the on going issues led by the 3 incompetents I had second thoughts about attending but decided we had put in a lot of hard work and effort and should enjoy the occasion. It ended up being a great night, nothing lavish..but a celebration of grass roots football where sincerity and camaraderie was in abundance. If only some of the high heid yins could look to the grass roots as a shining example. Lastly the senior players in attendance w and e’re james grady and Gary steals…
StevieBC says: (941) December 13, 2013 at 5:30 pm
So either the current FD Stockbridge, or the prospective director Malcolm Murray is telling a lie ?
Should be easy to follow up / prove.
If I paid a GBP 50K leccy bill on behalf of my employer, I am pretty sure I would have a receipt / confirmation of payment for my records.
And I presume that whoever supposedly paid this bill was reimbursed ?
======================================
From the Annual accounts
28. RELATED PARTY TRANSACTIONS
On 6 August 2012, Brian Stockbridge, a Director of RIFC provided a loan of Ā£50,000 to The Rangers Football Club Ltd (RFCL). No interest accrued on this balance which was repaid on 7 August 2012.
So Celtic were fined ā¬50,000 for displaying the illicit banner. That is a pretty substantial fine for something that is not a health and safety issue.
I wonder if Peter Lawwell had an early indication of the likely size of the fine when he decided to ban or relocate the GB followers.
The SMSM [jack) says;
Green and associates have no influence
Is that soā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦.or who says so and why ā and why now
On past consistent record and behaviours not to mention systemic abuse of the truth or any real information disclosed to the public in past YEARS ā we can safely assume that EVERYTHING reported [planted] by/in the MSM ā including leading up to the AGM
– is pants.
Congratulations to Dunfermline fans for enabling the club to formally come out of administration today. š
Listening to Sportsound, it’s only about getting ST money in at Ibrox. Apart from that, there’s nowt.
Mexican standoff?
Re Stockbridge
Finance
Mr. Stockbridge explained why the costs of IPO flotation were high, he came across as confident in his explanation of it, as an example; Lawyerās fees were doubled as they were paid in both England & Scotland……………………
seriously
He confirmed that the doomsday quote by auditors of having āonly Ā£1M in the bank by Aprilā was based on the current cash burn rate and assuming the worst case scenario where there would be no further incomings from now until April……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Why would they anticipate no further incomes from NOW until April …………………..what exactly is going to be revealed at this AGM ….OR IS THERE GOING TO BE ONE
Squad/Squad Management
Mr. Stockbridge wasnāt happy with the way things were progressing with developing youth for sale to assist with future financing of the club. Agreed that the wage bill on the playing/playing management side of things was far too high for where we were in the league set up. He wanted Mather to address that for some time but Mather was too nice and didnāt want to rock the boat.
Mr. Stockbridge also thinks there has to be a realistic view on what can be spent now in order to prepare the squad for our return to the SPFL. Like all managers and Financial Directors there will be differences of opinion on what can be spent achieving this…………………………………
Brave try at bringing a bit of reality to the meeting
New Board Members
Mr. Stockbridge hopeful of appointing two Non-Executive Directors shortly. Both from a financial, corporate governance and non-football background. Both Directors will be involved in the decision-making process for the new CEO which is expected to be announced the week after the two NonāExecutive Directors. New CEO will be of a level that has never been seen at the club before and has experience of working at a top English club.
Itās not Derek Lambiass, although he did say he knew him. The CEO will be instructed to sort out the playing side of things both financially & structurally. Likely to be paying similar for his services to what Craig Mather got (approx. Ā£300k a year). One applicant already interviewed wanted Ā£1.5m and was rightly rejected………………………………..
ooops reality must have backfired ,back to moonbeams
Annual General Meeting
It cost almost Ā£40,000 to reprint documents for rescheduled AGM………………….
And why would this be a problem for debt free club ?
Investment
Mr. Stockbridge claims to have made good headway with regards to attracting interest from potential new investors, however a lot of these potential investors understandably require stability in the boardroom before they will invest, a fact that the people causing unrest for the club fail to grasp……………………………
Now where have I heard that wee claim from again ,oh that’s right from MM at the rhebels jamboree, funny that when the old club needed investors to save it from death there wasn’t a single one to be found ,now the tribute act is beating them of with sticks.
Sports Direct
Mr. Stockbridge claims he has renegotiated better terms on the merchandising contract with Mike Ashley.
He said he told Mr. Ashley that any stadium renaming has to be put on the back burner for now, regardless of a signed contract being in place for the renaming rights………………………………………………………………
Was the better terms for him or the club ?.Looks like MA has a watertight contract and is waiting till Sevco hit the dizzy heights of the SPFL before he cashes in
Media/PR
WiFi at Ibrox and the Rangers āAppā are poor and he is refusing to release it in its current form. The whole media side of things needs a complete overhaul……………………………………………………………………….
How much did CG pay jabba again ……….oh dear …….
The issue was raised about the companyās PR strategy. Stockbridge said that Craig Mather was directly responsible for the hire of Jack. Irvine and Media House, that being said, while Mr. Stockbridge is acutely aware of the discontent amongst the support of aspects of the clubs PR, he says that it is a āwork in progressā and the club will be addressing it specifically, after the AGM has taken place………………………….
classic deflection
Dave King
It is not cut and dried yet that Dave King will be allowed by the SFA to hold a position at Rangers. Mr. Stockbridge wants Mr. King on board, saying that Mr. King doesnāt give much away to anyone from all sides and plays his cards very close to his chest……………………………………………………………………..
Funny someone must have told the MSM porkies ,as they had it down to a done deal
Craig Whyte
As far as he is aware Craig Whyte is not involved with either Blue Pitch or Margarita Holdings…………………..
As far as he is aware ,gone yersel BS ,looks like your initials are useful for that answer .
Malcolm Murray
We brought up the issue of the Malcolm Murray video, there had been four or five times that Malcolm Murray had been intoxicated and Mr. Stockbridge thought it wasnāt the standard expected of a Rangers Chairman. Stockbridge recorded Murray and showed it to a convened internal Board meeting comprising of Charles Green, Imran Ahmad and Malcolm. Murray. They all had copies of it. Mr. Green & Mr. Stockbridge deleted their copies. Mr. Stockbridge believes that Imran leaked the video to YouTube to get back at him……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Wee Imran done it and ran away
Walter Smith
Email on Charlottes Fakes was doctored to suit. Mr. Stockbridge and Walter Smith corresponded on the phone where Mr. Smith agreed that heād be taking on the Chairman role full time. Mr. Stockbridge has tried to get Charlotte Fakes shut down by contacting Twitter, however a new account appears just as soon as the previous one is deleted. Mr. Stockbridge says he doesnāt know who it is………………………………………..
So CF doctored the e-mail ,is that an admission that CF does indeed have access to the behind the scene dealings in this scandal
Blue Pitch & Margarita Holdings
Mr. Stockbridge canāt disclose the names invloved but said that there is a major insurance player who is involved with Blue Pitch.
He says he knows Rafat Rizvi but heās not involved, and if he was on Interpolās wanted list then why isnāt he arrested when heās in London, which is often?
Mr. Stockbridge denied being the man behind Margarita Holdings.
When asked if the names of those behind both investment groups are known can we expect it to be a major problem for the fans and indeed the club, he said ānoā………………………………………………………….
Wher do you start ?
Imran Ahmad
He is confident that Mr Ahmad wonāt win his Ā£500k claim. The alleged contract is worthless according to Mr. Stockbridge……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Hope your not pinning your hopes on the advice of the lawyers from your previous answer Brian
Puma/Blackthorn
Mr. Stockbridge didnāt agree with the one-year deal, and said he will try to negotiate longer term deals as itās more beneficial. He denied that Mr.Green and Mr. Ahmad pocketed the Blackthorn cash
Oh how Puma and Blackthorn must be champing at the bit to renew their deals after all the positive publicity they have had from the peepil in this saga …………hope other sponsors are taking notice
š š š š š š
Just watched the video version of the Easdale interview on BBC Shortbread.
In my best McCoist voice.
To be honest, I thought that he was being honest, in an honest and dignified honest way. Honestly.