Our First podcast features a general discussion involving our own Big Pink and Auldheid.
Since it is the first podcast there is no particular agenda save for a general chat about TSFM, the state of Scottish Football, and some few reminiscences. The chat covers a lot of ground, but establishes the ethos of the blog pretty well.
Topics discussed include FPP, Leadership, Interdependence, Scotland’s self-regard, Coaching and Nurturing of Talent, Redistribution of Income, Rangers, Forgiveness, domestic strife 🙂
The interview was conducted a couple of days before the latest round of Armageddon, when Big Pink and Auldheid felt safe and well 🙂
The link below is to the iTunes store page for our Podcasts. If you go there, you can subscribe to the podcast (on your PC or iPhone) and new episodes will automatically be sent to you.
Since we have just been approved for a spot on iTunes, the iTunes search side of things may not work properly for a day or so.
parttimearab says:
February 12, 2014 at 9:50 pm
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Re the Telegraph article
I was rather struck by one of the apparently insurmountable problems they faced –
“For example, if a member goes into administration while playing in League Two then where would we put them?”
Well as the new pyramid system is supposed to come into being in season 2014/2015 (as per SPFL rule C33)then the lowland league or the highland league (as appropriate) I would guess
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I think we are about as unanimous as is possible on this forum that the excuses put forward by the SPFL in support of doing nothing are about as convincing as a two year old hiding behind a finger. While a two year old hiding behind a finger can have a certain innocent charm, a similar tactic from the SPFL simply doesn’t cut it. And yes, I know they’re less than two years old. but everyone involved has “previous” .
So what to do? The only suggestion I can come up with is a concerted email campaign to all our clubs, with all emails copied both to the SFA and SPFL, demanding to know where our clubs stand on this issue. We, as the paying customers, are entitled to know. (oh dearie me, I’ve just realised that I’m starting to sound like Ally McCoist! ). It is a serious suggestion, though.
On the same subject, do we have an official statement from the SPFL on this issue? Or is our place in things just to pay up and shut up, while being kept in the dark? Don’t bother answering that last one,I think we all know the answer.
justshatered says:
February 12, 2014 at 8:58 pm
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…Some pundits say ‘Its business’ but could some one please point me to any other industry that allows a loss making entity to dictate how the well run businesses function
______________
Buzzzzz……..
…. erm Banking?
😉 .
Hmmm… What is it about certain elements of the establishment that will always behave arrogantly while having it large before expecting others to bail them out and pay the price for them when they stuff it up for themselves and everyone else, and are completely incapable of any sort of dignified humility ?
– The banks I am referring to, obv.
[Haven’t read all comments so apologies if mentioned previously.]
From the Telegraph article;
“…said a Hampden source…
It has also been agreed that, in future, the SPFL Board will have the sole responsibility for adjudication regarding clubs who might face liquidation.
“It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,” said the source…”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-football/10631856/Scottish-football-abandons-plans-to-automatically-relegate-clubs-in-administration.html
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For such a significant development by the SPFL member clubs – and they must have known that fans would have taken a real interest in this development – why was Doncaster not quoted ?
Why was it necessary to maintain anonymity by quoting “a Hampden source” ?
when is the no bottom six for sevco rule being ratified ??
pau1mart1n says:
when is the no bottom six for sevco rule being ratified ??
—
Act Two, scene three.
I take it you’re talking about Springtime for Sevco.
How to bring Scottish football into line with the rest of the world
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Actually
Its sticking out like a sore thumb
The ordinary Bears should invite Fergus McCann to sort out the Spivs
He wouldn`t just fix their financial problems
He would also kill the culture that caused the problem in the first place
We seem to have a Mexican standoff
Fans are saying to authorities and clubs :
We don’t trust you , we want our voice heard and we want complete transparency
Clubs and authorities are saying to fans :
We don’t care , just give us your money .
Now the last time this standoff came about the clubs and authorities got a bloody nose. They must be banking on fans having battle fatigue. I think that’s a mistake on their part. Being taken for granted isn’t something supporters are buying into anymore .
I sense there may be trouble ahead
Rino Gattuso considering joint Glasgow Rangers as a coach
Imago
More about
Gennaro Gattuso
He had already played for the club in 1997-98 and his wife is Scottish.
The Italian newspaper claims Gattuso is considering the next step in his management career in Glasgow with the Rangers side he never stopped caring about.
*******However, La Gazzetta dello Sport also maintains he has already received an offer to take over, but turned it down.
Rino retired from playing last year and aged 36 he has had brief spells as player-manager of Swiss club Sion and Coach of Serie B team Palermo.
He was sacked after just six Serie B games in charge of the Sicilian side.
Glasgow Rangers are in the Scottish League One after bankruptcy.
——–
From Gazetta in Italy, the part I highlighted with ******’s is interesting
Barca
Or else they’re banking on the armageddon-less feel good factor
Barcabhoy says:
February 12, 2014 at 10:49 pm
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We’ll know soon enough.
Let me play devil’s advocate.
Club chairman of smaller clubs who have walked a financial tightrope season after season – never seeking to abuse the system to their own benefit, who have wiped the sweat off their forehaed after successfully negotiating the finances through yet another fraught season using guile and talent in a fair manner – may have worried about making a set of rules – aimed squarely at preventing abuse by an obvious transgressor – so draconian that a minor slip up by themselves could have unintended consequences.
You don’t have to be a supporter of people who drink and drive to oppose a death penalty for anyone caught half a pint over the limit on the basis it may be too much
Nor do you wish well upon those who down a bottle of scotch before driving stolen cars through red lights at high speed if you oppose such a measure.
There has never been a precedent for a club being promoted after entering administration.
My contention is that any club that spends money it doesn’t have to win a lower league with expensive players unavailable to its opponents and then shamelessly enters administration in the same season to blatantly avoid debts or onerous contracts thereby to escape the consequences of its own recklessness is – quiet simply – guilty of bringing the game into disrepute.
Buying success is probably not great for the image of the sport. But buying your success when you and everone else knows you don’t have the money to pay the bill? That is downright disreputable imo.
There are penalties for the crime of bringing the game into disrepute that are over and above those for entering administration under existing rules. So the admin/promotion scenario could be dealt with therein.
re-Demotion is one optional penalty for bringing the game into disrepute (Playing on a tilted field, if you will).
Its the very least that should be considered in my view.
The usual bears will squeal… but so what?
They are not the (principle) victims here. Its the teams they beat on the way that stumped up their subs honestly that need redress. Fool me once etc.
If I buy 1000 £ of lottery tickets with a cheque which bounces, I cannot complain when one of them turns out to win the £1m jackpot, and my payout is refused. I am the cheat, not the lottery organiser.
Anyway like I said – we’ll know soon enough:
Now If TRFC escape admin. so be it.
But If TRFC enter admin and are promoted – I’m out. Shenanigans.
I think if there is a consensus among fans that simultaneous admin and promotion is unreasonable, then we can operate such a consensus within the existing rules.
Ryan – I’d really like a decent RFC fans perspective here:
If you concede that overspending and not paying your debts is NOT a valid way to gain promotion, and support TRFC being held back in the event of an insolvency, then fans of your club will be dissociating themselves from the corrupt influences of the past, and can expect to enjoy the camaraderie, respect and best wishes of fellow fans for their stance, which might help with the short term pain and disappointment, but immeasurably help with the long term gain of rebuilding.
And I will agree to congratulate your club on deserved success if it avoids admin before the end of the season and wins promotion fairly.
But if your club is allowed to cheat its way back to the top, then relentless and deserved ridicule, cynicism and disillusionment is the most you can hope for from me. Tinged with self righteous resentment, at that!
I can’t say fairer than that!
justshatered says: February 12, 2014 at 8:58 pm
Do they (the Chairmen) really believe that ‘The Rangers’ in the top flight is the only possible way to sustain the TV contract?
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Precisely.
Furthermore,
the TV execs will have said one of the following to the chairmen –
Stop at nothing
Do whatever it takes.
By hook or by crook.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Find a way or make a way.
Or something similar.
.
It’s just about TV money.
And tens of thousands of berrs
in their cherrs
watching the game on the telly
subscription only.
.
All the rest is mere coincidence.
Oh dear, there were complications that raised other questions? What were these vexatious questions? Perhaps it’s just a matter of joining Ewing’s dots?
andygraham.66 says:
February 12, 2014 at 10:49 pm
8 2 Rate This
Rino Gattuso considering joint Glasgow Rangers as a coach
Imago
More about
Gennaro Gattuso
He had already played for the club in 1997-98 and his wife is Scottish.
The Italian newspaper claims Gattuso is considering the next step in his management career in Glasgow with the Rangers side he never stopped caring about.
*******However, La Gazzetta dello Sport also maintains he has already received an offer to take over, but turned it down.
Rino retired from playing last year and aged 36 he has had brief spells as player-manager of Swiss club Sion and Coach of Serie B team Palermo.
He was sacked after just six Serie B games in charge of the Sicilian side.
Glasgow Rangers are in the Scottish League One after bankruptcy.
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Has there been an outcome yet of the investigation into Gattuso (refer all major news outlets on 17 December 2013)? Eg Telegraph as below
By Telegraph Sport, and agencies
1:50PM GMT 17 Dec 2013
Former AC Milan midfielder Gennaro Gattuso, one of the key players inItaly’s World Cup-winning team in 2006, was placed under investigation for match-fixing on Tuesday as a widening inquiry into football corruption targeted Milan’s last title campaign.
Four others were arrested in an early morning police sweep.
Cremona prosecutor Roberto Di Martino, who has been leading the Last Bet operation for three years, told The Associated Press that Gattuso and retired Milan and Lazio player Cristian Brocchi were allegedly part of a ring that fixed Serie A and other Italian matches at the end of the 2010-11 season.
“About 30 matches, a good part of them involving Serie A, are under investigation,” Di Martino told the AP.
Lots of media triumphalism today about the Rangers Supporters Trust shareholding increase to 500K. Having listened to the utterances of that organisation in the past, heaven forbid they ever get anywhere near a position of power.
Having a read at Graham Spiers twitter timeline this morning. He is waxing lyrical about the days at Ibrox under Dick Advocaat. Those were the days a Rangers friendly bank helped Rangers get anything they want. That bank went on to become such a mess the state had to bail it out. Rangers went on to become such a mess they illegally withheld money from the state. Yet a so called ‘quality’ writer like Spiers sees fit to wallow in the falseness and dishonesty of it all.
upthehoops says:
February 13, 2014 at 7:11 am
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Lots of media triumphalism today about the Rangers Supporters Trust shareholding increase to 500K. Having listened to the utterances of that organisation in the past, heaven forbid they ever get anywhere near a position of power.
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Strange that there are two of these groups buying shares independent of one another.
Someone blue should add up all the cash thrown at ‘Sevco’ Rangers so far and ask what that sum might have done to create a proper fan-owned newco.
Great listen on Sportsound yesterday, Jim Spence and Paul Sturruck on from 20:45m – 28:28min about the Roma v Dundee United second leg.
Sturruck going to write to Platini 30 years on after the ref bribery revelations emerged from the son of the Roma chairman.
Sturruck wants history ‘clean’. Billy Dodds response also noteworthy! ‘Can’t turn a blind eye … just like letting someone off … Swept under the carpet …’
Jings.
Danish Pastry says:
February 13, 2014 at 7:51 am
Sturruck going to write to Platini 30 years on after the ref bribery revelations emerged from the son of the Roma chairmen.
Sturruck wants history ‘clean’. Billy Dodds response also noteworthy! ‘Can’t turn a blind eye … just like letting someone off … Swept under the carpet …’
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If Roma got off with it, then haven’t they been punished enough?
StevieBC
The Hampden source is Darryl Broadfoot who is always wheeled out to speak when it would be embarrassing for RCO to do so personally. As far as I can observe, that is all Broadfoot, the “master” at whose feet Richard Wilson learned all he knows about journalism, actually does for his more than handsome remuneration.
Be careful what you wish for though; the hot tip as Regan’s successor is current SFA lawyer Andrew McKinlay who holds a season ticket for the Club Deck. He’s being touted as Ernie Walker & Jim Farry rolled into one. I’ll leave you to draw that picture in your mind though.
Tartanwuiver, there are those who would agree that AS Roma have been punished enough. This year will mark the 30th anniversary of them losing their one and only opportunity to win the Big Cup, and on their home patch too, against a joke of a goalkeeper in Bruce Grobelaar.
The walls of Rome have been daubed, and banners flown on the Curva Nord of the Stadio Olimpico, many times in those 3 decades by Lazio fans taunting their city rivals over their failure.
As for Billy Dodds, he should be banned from the BBC until he confirms to our satisfaction that he has paid tax on all his football earnings. But of course many of the BBC top staff in Scotland and the rest of the UK avoid their lawful national insurance obligations by using a service company so the BBC is not perhaps in a position to deal with this.
I note that with 15 days to go TRFC has still not lodged signed, audited accounts at Companies House. Whatever can be the problem?
Looks as if HMRC aren’t taking any chances of anything significant happening on 14 February, and are making sure they give the day a wide berth by calling a strike. I can’t say I blame them, after last year, they probably feel that calling a ‘duvet day’ in advance is probably their most favourable option.
http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2014/feb/13/hmrc-strike-money-employment-rights?CMP=twt_gu
Tartanwulver says:
February 13, 2014 at 8:09 am
7 0 Rate This
If Roma got off with it, then haven’t they been punished enough?
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The hope-springs-eternal part of me wishes that Dundee United’s quest for justice will finally be recognized. I have no great faith in Platini. Brilliant player that he was, he’s been a huge disappointment as high heid yin of UEFA.
Sturruck, though, is doing what this blog is attempting to do. Great to hear Jum offering to help compose the letter.
A post taken from the The Rangers share site
Today 10:04 AlgorithmicSolvency courtesy of the Easdales?
There is no doubt in my mind that the representations to boutique banks in the city failed. The assets, with their contingency, were not AAA collateral. So at this point, RFC as a trading entity are insolvent. However, the Easdales with their bus company (worth £80-£100M) do have collateral that would be acceptable. I therefore propose that they will secure collateral funding to ensure that RFC complete their fixtures this season. This loan will be reimbursed from season ticket sales. Next season will require an additional £20M to put a team on the park. The board will attempt to raise this amount from fans as the city were burned in the IPO. However if the fans ownership campaign gains traction, the share issue will fail and the Easdales would shelve any loan application. I have heard rumours that RFC will go into administration tomorrow. These rumours are in the City, not from PMG
upthehoops says:
February 13, 2014 at 7:11 am
27 1 Rate This
Lots of media triumphalism today about the Rangers Supporters Trust shareholding increase to 500K.
Having listened to the utterances of that organisation in the past, heaven forbid they ever get anywhere near a position of power.
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The very reason I wish them well…as I’m sure does Heaven…
Today’s Sun
Headline: Gers old rivals die
Rangers old euro foes Alania Vladikavkaz have been wiped out of football
The ex Russian champions pulled out of the 2nd Div halfway through after losing a battle against insolvency
So, the lesson learned here from a MSM point of view is Liquidation can only apply outwith the school summer holidays
Greaatings from Samoa 🙂
Apologies for the length of this post
Regarding the appointment of administrators
There are two distinct processes by which a company may go into administration. The first is the “out of court” process; and the second is by an application to court.
The second process is now relatively rarely used.
The out of court process consists of some forms being filled in and delivered to the court.
Under this process, the three parties who may seek to appoint an administrator are:-
(i) the directors;
(ii) the company itself; or
(iii) the holder of a floating charge.
Not all companies of course have granted floating charges. If there is no floating charge and the company or the directors wish to appoint of administrators, they file a form 2.8B (a notice of appointment) at court identifying who they wish the administrator to be (the administrator must have consented in advance) and from the point the form is filed, the administrators are validly appointed (always assuming the form has been filled in properly).
If there is a floating charge in place, the form is put into court and a copy is sent to the holder of a floating charge.
In this case, the form that is sent to the court is known as a “Notice of Intention to Appoint Administrators”.
From the point at which that Notice of Intention goes into court, there is a “moratorium” in place. That means that no-one may take any legal process against the Company for a period of 10 business days. As and when an administrator is actually appointed, that moratorium of course remains in place while the administration continues.
If there is a floating charge and notice of intention to appoint has been given to the floating chargeholder, the floating chargeholder can jump in and nominate its own administrator instead. A chargeholder has 5 business days in which to do that. If the floating chargeholder does not appoint its own administrator and does not consent to the original appointee within those 5 business days, then the directors or the company (as the case may be) are free to thereafter submit a Notice of Appointment of Administrator to the Court.
What all of this means is that the identity of an administrator will be chosen in virtually all cases by the directors/the Company or the floating chargeholder. The general body of creditors do not have a say.
This is one of the areas in which administration is different from liquidation. In a liquidation the person who is appointed by the Court has to convene a creditors meeting within 42 days. At that meeting, the creditors can decide if they want that person to remain in office or to appoint a different liquidator. Creditors may decide to do this if they consider that the liquidator is not likely to favour their interests properly (they may have suspicions that the liquidator who has been appointed is likely to be minded to be favourable to the directors). That process does not happen in administration. Although there is a creditors meeting, there is not (subject to what I say below about requisitioning) a vote on the choice of administrator.
Just as shareholders are able to requisition an extraordinary general meeting of a company (assuming they have the requisite number of shares) in an administration, creditors are entitled to requisition a meeting. They may do so for the purpose of (for example) trying to remove an administrator and replacing that administrator with one of their own choosing. This is very rarely done.
If we go back to what happened in February 2012, my understanding of how it played out is as follows:-
(i) I understand that HMRC were on the verge of petitioning for a winding up;
(ii) In order to prevent HMRC from petitioning for a winding up, the directors put in a Notice of Intention to Appoint Administrators to the Court and gave notice to the floating chargeholder. From that point, the Company benefitted from the moratorium I have referred to above.
But the moratorium is always capable of being broken with the leave of the Court. So HMRC were prevented from petitioning for a winding up unless they had first obtained the leave of the Court.
(iii) On February 14, my understanding is that HMRC did go to the Court. However, they did not argue for the ability to present their winding up petition. As an insolvency process was obviously beginning a winding up process was effectively redundant. HMRC had to think on their feet. They were I think concerned about two things. The first was whether or not they should oppose the choice of administrator and secondly I believe they were concerned about the fact that because of the Notice of Intention procedure, no administrator might actually be appointed for a period of at least 10 business days (and perhaps even longer if, following the expiry of the 10 business day period, another Notice of Intention to Appoint was put in. That does happen (and in fact happened in the recent Tie Rack situation).)
So HMRC pointed out to the Court that the delay was being caused because notice had to be given to the floating chargeholder. To all intents and purposes the floating chargeholder was the same person as the director. If the director wanted to appoint an administrator and had chosen that particular administrator, there was no reason to delay the administration waiting for the consent of the chargeholder (because presumably the chargeholder was of the same mind as the director). That is what I understand played out in the course of the afternoon in the Court. The Court told the chargeholder/director to make up its mind there and then about whether administration was to happen. HMRC decided not to oppose the choice of administrator. Accordingly the consent of the chargeholder was obtained in the course of the afternoon and was submitted to Court and the administration appointment was made immediately.
What is the significance of this? Well I believe that the significance is that the administrators were in office a couple of weeks (perhaps as much as a month) in advance of when they expected to be appointed. One can only guess about what might have been planned for that couple of weeks/month. At that point anyone wishing to take steps against the Company would have had to seek leave of the Court to do so. Such leave is not readily given and it is a substantial and real obstacle for any creditor seeking to intervene in the process to overcome.
Instead, the administrators were appointed and were immediately subject to the glare of publicity. Anything that might have been tried “under the radar” by the Company or its director prior to an administration appointment could not now happen. Directors are less easy to control and regulate than administrators. Particularly directors who reside outwith the jurisdiction.
The situation however now is different. There is no floating chargeholder. So any administration appointment will be decided upon by the directors/the company and it will be their choice of administrator with no ability for anyone (other than creditors by way of requisition) to intervene.
Apologies, tried to look back but can’t find the post 😥 why is 22 Feb relevant to sevco? Audited accounts? Or is that the final day for vat payments etc……. Sorry 😥
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
A post taken from the The Rangers share site
==============================================
Do you mean the LSE RFC site? I had a look there but can’t see the actual post which may well have been removed because of the comments. Not considered cricket on a share site to suggest a listed company might be going into admin the following day. Allow that and the ordinary punters might be able to make a few bob or save a lot more than a few bob instead of the spivs being the only ones on the inside track.
However the LSE RFC has become a battleground for over a year between Rangers and Celtic posters as well as a PR campaign and your usual people who attempt to nudge share prices to suit their nefarious purposes.
So anything said there has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt and the identity of the screen name of the poster then becomes of importance to check credibility based on previous postings. Did you take a note of the poster’s moniker btw?
I am going down the road now to post the following to Doncaster, CEO of the SPFL, with a copy sent separately to Regan of the SFA.
13th February, 2014
Mr N Doncaster,
Chief Executive Officer,
The Scottish Professional Football League,
Hampden Park,
Glasgow G42 9DE
Dear [Mr Doncaster, in manuscript)
It is reported in yesterday’s ‘Telegraph’ that the SPFL have by ‘majority opinion’ decided to abandon plans to introduce the penalty of ‘automatic demotion’ for clubs which enter ‘administration’.
You will be aware (how, indeed, could you not be?) of the by now long-held deep resentment and anger in the hearts of many thousands of football supporters of clubs throughout Scotland at the betrayal of all notions of ‘Fair Play ‘ and ‘Sporting Integrity’ by you, as CEO of the then SPL, in concert with the SFL and, appallingly, in concert also with the SFA (still headed up by a deeply conflicted President) which is the supposed ‘guardian’ of those principles and their application of them in our game,
That betrayal was contained in the perversity of the infamous, disgraceful and deceitful ‘5-way’ agreement, designed to placate the blusteringly belligerent and threatening owner of the new club that was set up following the death by administration and liquidation of RFC. This agreement was not only at odds with rightness and justice, but was also farcically self-contradictory, as even the dimmest terracing fan could see.
Now, it appears, we have a situation in which sensible proposals to deal effectively with rogue clubs, such as RFC had been for many years, who cheat and gain undeserved sporting advantage by such cheating, have been dismissed by the SPFL, of which you are now the CEO.
Such is the level of well-founded distrust in the Football Authorities, thanks to their track record to date in dealing with the disgraced RFC and the new club, that many of the ticket- and merchandise-buying football public openly profess the view that the ‘majority opinion’ mentioned above was arrived at because, and ONLY because, the newest club in the SPFL (which, however, claims to be the same rogue RFC now in liquidation) is itself believed to be in danger of facing the prospect of suffering an ‘insolvency event’.
It beggars belief that our Football Authorities can again cast aside their DUTY to take measures strong enough to keep our game clean, out of craven fear of ‘consequences’ if those measures might have to be applied sooner rather than later to one particular offending, but high-profile club.
In my opinion, you, as CEO of a sporting organisation which has been, and continues to be, unashamedly supportive of those who have spat in the face of Scottish Football and who scorn the very ideas of ‘Sport’ and ‘Fair Play’, ought properly for the sake of your own self-respect, tender your resignation forthwith.
That might give the SPFL an opportunity to look itself squarely in the eye, blush for its shameful weakness, and take the steps necessary to restore some faith in its integrity and honour.
Yours sincerely,
cc Mr S Regan, SFA “
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
‘….However, the Easdales with their bus company (worth £80-£100M) do have collateral that would be acceptable. I therefore propose that they will secure collateral funding to ensure that RFC complete their fixtures this season…’
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In the (extremely unlikely) event that the Easdales would put any significant part of their resources in hock to fund TRFC, they might have to reconsider their interest in bidding for the Maltese public transport system! The Maltese government has been stung once already. 😀
@Bawsman I actually think the rangers will struggle through this weekend and early next week will see the speculated event as the payrole run cannot be met.
I really think they want to avoid Valentines day being declared a public holiday by their main football rivals.
Another excellent letter JC. It is my intention to email both Doncaster and Regan with my thoughts on the matter but don’t have the email addresses. I thought we had a list of useful addresses on the site but can’t find it. Can someone post them on the blog so I can fire my salvo. Cheers.
St Valentine, patron saint of face-painters… 😈
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
‘….However, the Easdales with their bus company (worth £80-£100M) do have collateral that would be acceptable. I therefore propose that they will secure collateral funding to ensure that RFC complete their fixtures this season…’
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Bawsman – an interesting tidbit overall there and thanks for sharing.
On the point I’ve quoted above……..Has someone (perhaps on this very forum iirc) not already poured some very icy water on the notion that the Easdales bus firm would be worth that amount ? I seem to remember comparisons / parallels being drawn with the recent sale of a bus company of similar size, and operating in a far more lucrative corner of Greater London, with figures closer to £30m – £50m….
Campbellsmoney says:
February 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm
I should fess up – I am not really in Samoa.
——
I happen to be an Honorary Chieftain of the small island of Apolima in Western Samoa, on account of some stuff my dad did for them once, and me being the eldest son.
Big feast ceremony, loads of grass-skirted dancing girls, buckets of fermented coconut “kava” spirit (I still have the ceremonial kava bowl).
Shame I was only 12 at the time. 🙁
Another thought escaping from my head.
Could the Scottish Cup results of last weekend be delaying the announcement of the expected (in some quarters) administration. With Celtic now out, and TRFC given their predecessor’s rightful place in the draw (next to the heater to warm the ball), I’d imagine it would be genuine Armageddon down Govan way if administration was announced, with the accompanying release of players ensuring TRFC can only field a team of League 1 quality players for the rest of the season, which might be enough to win them promotion, but playing on an even playing-field doesn’t suit them as they would then have to do in the cup competitions. With that in mind, the directors may well be renewing their efforts to find additional funding as the potential fallout from an administration has just increased!
Easdale 1 to Easdale 2
” . . . well the bright side is we don’t get a thrashing off THEM, but we’ll need to cancel those media contracts for the glorious journey and return of the old firm final. There is a downside however, the muppets outside this boardroom now think we’re going to win the bloody thing!…”
I don’t believe an administration event is or has ever been on the Cards for New Rangers, they will carry on until season ticket Money comes in and pass out the begging bowl come close season.
Angus1983 says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Big feast ceremony, loads of grass-skirted dancing girls, buckets of fermented coconut “kava” spirit (I still have the ceremonial kava bowl).
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Aye Aberdeen is fun right enough
john clarke says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:22 pm
I am going down the road now to post the following to Doncaster, CEO of the SPFL, with a copy sent separately to Regan of the SFA.
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Bravo John, a splendid effort. Chapeau indeed.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a reply though. Craven cowards and lickspittles that they are.
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
The Bears Financial Expert has very similar skills to the Bears Land Expert. They are both pish at what they do.
The most recent accounts for McGills Bus Service Ltd and Arranglen Limited, the company which holds the main Easdale investments, including their 100% holding in McGills and their various taxi interests, does not support a net worth of anywhere near these figures. As at 31/12/2012 Arranglen Limited was reporting a net worth of £1,415,011.
They will have additional assets but to suggest that the Easdale’s are worth £80 – £100m is laughable.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC182141/ARRANGLEN-LIMITED/financial-accounts
But if the money runs out before then and you have no overdraft, no credit facility, and even Desperate Wonga Loans Ltd is not interested in lending to you then you have no choice. Of course, you could opt to use VAT/PAYE and NI contributions to get by in the short term, but it’s inconceivable that any Scottish football club would resort to that. 😉
I do wonder why season tickets renewal forms aren’t issued earlier. My first deadline down here to get the best deal is Feb 23.
Brenda says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Apologies, tried to look back but can’t find the post 😥 why is 22 Feb relevant to sevco? Audited accounts? Or is that the final day for vat payments etc……. Sorry 😥
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Brenda, VAT was due yesterday (if paid by DD) PAYE on a month’s salaries to 5/2/14 is due on 22nd.
I can only assume that the VAT has been paid or that fine upstanding businessman Mr Wallace would have walked already. There might not be enough left in the biscuit tin for the PAYE though.
Agree with comment re admin unless someone seriously got their sums wrong. It would however be funny that the SPFL have once again rolled over for them if they didn’t need to. Come the summer though you have to assume the original consortium would dump TRFC as I just cannot see how it can make money longer term when a misplaced sense of entitlement meets more stead fast, resolute and ultimately better resourced opposition. Unless rangersness is truly catching of course!
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
The Bears Financial Expert has very similar skills to the Bears Land Expert. They are both pish at what they do.
Bear Land Man is worth his weight in displaced soil. Desperate and deluded. And, as far as I can tell, his name is J Canoe (the person submitting all the FoI requests). And, here’s the thing, if you strip the J, E, A & N out, you’re left with CO. The World’s Greatest Football Administrator is Football Tax Havens 😯 (Makes as much sense as FTH).
I’m tired now.
I have been intrigued as to where the “Board discretion about letting a newco in” rule came from – remember this is Article 36 of the SPFL Articles.
The Scottish Premier League Limited changed its name to The Scottish Professional Football League Limited on July 5, 2013. This was round about the time of the “merger”.
However, earlier, on May 20, 2013, by written resolution of the shareholders, the current set articles of association were adopted. (There have been minor changes since). Article 36 came into existence at that point.
The new Articles (they run to 44 pages) are radically different from their predecessors (a mere 27 pages).
I don’t recall if there was any particular discussion in the media or elsewhere (even on here) about the new articles being adopted.
The reason I think this is worth highlighting is that if a provision such as article 36 had been tabled on its own as a change, I would like to think that t would have been the subject of comment and discussion. Its purpose would have been examined and the rationale for its inclusion would have been openly aired.
However, in the tumult and the frantic last minute discussions surrounding the merger an opportunity obviously arose to make fundamental important and game-changing alterations to the constitution.
john clarke says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:22 pm
Wonderful letter John. You should try to get a version of it published in the papers
Bingo says:
February 13, 2014 at 1:56 pm
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Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
The Bears Financial Expert has very similar skills to the Bears Land Expert. They are both pish at what they do
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”Bear” and ”expert” in the same sentence are strange bedfellows . Watching Echobhoy tear the land expert a new one , was a akin to watching your guard dog savaging a burglar entering your house . It’s gory , but necessary for justice . As for financial experts of a blue persuasion , are there any ? The only bears with financial savvy appear to be either non-existant or imaginary .
I note Phil Mac is suggesting that down Ibrox way it is day two of serious talks.
If Stockbridge was correct, then T’Rangers can get through to season ticket renewal time with £1m in the bank and try and push on from there.
However that still won’t deal with the £20m internal debt the RFCL owes to the RIFC. With that hanging over there heads then why would people invest to either throw more money after bad or pay off the spivs.
As discussed the other day Aberdeen seems to be sitting on historic debts to the bank and other parties of around £15m. They are trying to run a tight ship with total running costs being around £9m but only bringing in circa £7.5m. There performance this year may bring in more fans, generate new income etc to help alleviate their financial position. However the fact remains that they have a credit facility with the bank and some benefactors who are happy with the situation.
If CEO Wallace is allowed to get costs in line with the division they are playing in then he is going to have to look at the £14m historical annual outgoings plus the £7m for the players wages plus the £20m (and probably more) debt within the company before he can bet extras finance or credit facilites.
If they up the season tickets and add in other revenue then it is possible that they can cope with £21m of outgoings, or less if cuts are made. But that still leaves the £20m debt and no return for the investors.
On the basis that they have to keep most of the players they have on contracts then the current squad is going to have to get them through the championship next year. If they need to stengthen the squad then that will need to come from another rise in season tickets if they get to the Premiership, but once again they will be living hand to mouth and still riding the £20m internal debt, which of course is similar to the £18m that CW was supposed to have sorted out.
It really looks like it comes down to a cash flow situation and how patient and happy people are with the internal debt, because it doesn’t look like that is going anywhere soon.
The danger is, don’t cut the cost now and they may struggle to have enough ready cash to pay the bills. Build the team to increase chances of success, then they need cash and there are no obvious sources at this time other than justified increases in season ticket if they get to the Premiership. However a better team comes at higher costs and still that £20m and the potential lack of credit facilities still sits over them with hopes all being that something good happens on the park.
I have called it a tightrope, maybe it is a gamble? Either way hats off to the men who are brave enough to try and sort the mess out, because we all know what happened to Leeds when they gambled on success and lost.
on February 13, 2014 at 2:33 pm
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Bingo says: February 13, 2014 at 1:56 pm 1 0 Rate This
Bawsman says: February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am The Bears Financial Expert has very similar skills to the Bears Land Expert. They are both pish at what they do
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”Bear” and ”expert” in the same sentence are strange bedfellows . Watching Echobhoy tear the land expert a new one , was a akin to watching your guard dog savaging a burglar entering your house . It’s gory , but necessary for justice . As for financial experts of a blue persuasion , are there any ? The only bears with financial savvy appear to be either non-existant or imaginary .
……………………………………
I personally believe there are plenty of finance experts of rangers persuasion
But unfortunately they either get shouted down or just don’t bother 🙁 As its not what the bearzz want to hear 🙁
tomtom says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:31 pm
”They will have additional assets but to suggest that the Easdale’s are worth £80 – £100m is laughable.”
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If only we had Neil Patey to give us the gospel on the situation. We could then rest easy that all was well in the blue-nosed world.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:56 pm
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”I personally believe there are plenty of finance experts of rangers persuasion
But unfortunately they either get shouted down or just don’t bother 🙁 As its not what the bearzz want to hear 🙁
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I agree there must be experts somewhere , I’ll give you that . They have had the same opportunities to create anonymous blogs like RTC and TSFM . Not one of the 500,000 berrz bothered . Intelligent berrz are aware the club died . The semi intelligent berrz don’t know what to do and the rest of them are season ticket holders .
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:56 pm
I think any financially savvy bears will know that there is nothing good or hopeful they can say, and so stay quiet. They’ve watched the Murrays, considered financially savvy, try to raise funds and fail. They’ve analysed the accounts and balance sheet, and can’t find any hope there. They know that the only man David Murray could find to buy his club was Craig Whyte, a financial disaster. They know that no one was prepared to step in when they could get the assets for a song, now it will cost £20m+. But most importantly, they know there is no argument against the likes of PMGB, ecobhoy etc, and sensibly don’t respond, as they know there’s no point in getting involved in a war of words, when you have no ammunition, and the enemy has all the big guns. The loudmouths only serve to create a sense of false hope, security even, and do it because they are too dumb to know better, or see it as a way to gain prominence within the TRFC support. Those who know better choose to stay quiet.
Bingo says:
February 13, 2014 at 1:56 pm
And, here’s the thing, if you strip the J, E, A & N out, you’re left with CO.
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How very dare you!!!!!!!!!
redlichtie says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:12 pm
“Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.”
—
I must confess to a double-take on spotting the following BBC headline recently …”Arbroath can get me to World Cup”. 😯
jean7brodie says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:34 pm
Bingo says:
February 13, 2014 at 1:56 pm
And, here’s the thing, if you strip the J, E, A & N out, you’re left with CO.
_________________________________________
How very dare you!!!!!!!!!
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Depends how you see it… it could be read as if ‘Jean’ is therefore the opposite of ‘CO’ – an undoubted compliment if so!
Tartanwulver says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:37 pm
Thanks Tartanwulver.
‘Jean’ and ‘stripping’ in the same sentence would give anyone the heebie jeebies 😉
Allyjambo on February 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm
……………….
Exactly what I was trying to say 🙂
Just not as thoughtfully or eloquently as put by yourself 🙂
So in my own words
They can’t be bothered with the hassle 😉
scottc says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:31 pm
‘ …… You should try to get a version of it published in the papers.’
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Thank you, scottc.
If the matter was about any other business, I surely would.
But given the subject matter, I would hesitate to put my real name to anything I sent to a newspaper, and I wouldn’t trust any paper to honour any ‘ name and address supplied’ arrangement, not even the dear old ‘Scotsman’ .
And in any case, I doubt if any newspaper would publish it, since none of them ever called out any of the misdeeds of the Football Authorities.!
I do put my real name on the letters I write to individuals, of course, but not entirely without a small degree of apprehension!!
wottpi says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:54 pm
As discussed the other day Aberdeen seems to be sitting on historic debts to the bank and other parties of around £15m. They are trying to run a tight ship with total running costs being around £9m but only bringing in circa £7.5m. There performance this year may bring in more fans, generate new income etc to help alleviate their financial position. However the fact remains that they have a credit facility with the bank and some benefactors who are happy with the situation.
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Indeed, and a tenuous position it is. The bank and benfactors do appear to be solidly behind us and why not, however, any dons fan with any nous (i.e. all but the zoomers) are aware that there is a risk there. If the aforementioned support was to go then we could be in trouble but I would expect someone to pick up the ,relatively cheap, pieces and run with it should the worst occur i.e. liquidation. Could be a good thing, clean sheet, ground share with Banks o’ Dee and a’that. Although nothing could take away the memories of the glory days, and even the crap but equally enjoyable days, from me and my fellow fans it would be a different club.
I doubt if we’d be big enough to get special care from the SFA/SPFL. How big do you have to be?
Campbellsmoney says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:27 pm
‘….I don’t recall if there was any particular discussion in the media or elsewhere (even on here) about the new articles being adopted. ..’
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Sa’o, my Samoan friend, you’re absolutely Sa’o! 🙂 ( see this link
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_say_right_in_Samoan?#slide=4)
I was interested at the time in seeing how the SPL constitution and rules would need to be amended when it ‘took over’ the SFL, but I saw nothing that even appeared to indicate that discussions were taking place, let alone the results of any discussions.
john clarke says:
February 13, 2014 at 4:29 pm
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Which proves of course that whatever else they are – they are not daft.
“Sleekit” might be a good word for it . What is Samoan for sleekit I wonder.
General Tilly says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:49 pm
Bawsman – an interesting tidbit overall there and thanks for sharing.
On the point I’ve quoted above…….. Has someone (perhaps on this very forum iirc) not already poured some very icy water on the notion that the Easdales bus firm would be worth that amount?
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If, as suggested, the Easdales are looking for a victim to sell their bus company to, the reason won’t be that they want to plough the money into Rangers2.
They are too smart to throw their money into a bottomless pit.
scottc says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:31 pm
john clarke says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:22 pm
Wonderful letter John. You should try to get a version of it published in the papers
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For the past 2 years the papers have had more than ample opportunity to report the truth and sentiments expressed eloquently in John’s excellent letter here. The have systematically and abjectly failed to do so, instead swallowing succulent lamb and serving up the fecal remnants to the public in their various publications in a concerted campaign of deflection and obfuscation. So what makes you think any Scottish paper would print such a hard-hitting on the money letter now??
ernie says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm
I remember discussing on RTC who was the ‘third’ team in Scotland and me giving it slightly to the Dons over Hearts on the basis of the Cup Winners Cup and Super Cup trophies being in the cabinet. A wee cup double and second place this year will definitely put you in third spot on a historical basis
Being Hearts have been given the ‘without fear or favour’ treatment then the multiple choice on ‘how big do you have to be’, is:-
a) as big as Celtic
b) as big as Rangers
c) Must have at least one Euro trophy in cabinet 🙂
The ‘Solvency Courtesy of the Easdales?’ notion did appear in the LSE Share Chat forum. Algorithmic started the thread, which is still open.
wottpi says:
February 13, 2014 at 4:58 pm
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ernie says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm
I remember discussing on RTC who was the ‘third’ team in Scotland and me giving it slightly to the Dons over Hearts on the basis of the Cup Winners Cup and Super Cup trophies being in the cabinet. A wee cup double and second place this year will definitely put you in third spot on a historical basis
Being Hearts have been given the ‘without fear or favour’ treatment then the multiple choice on ‘how big do you have to be’, is:-
a) as big as Celtic
b) as big as Rangers
c) Must have at least one Euro trophy in cabinet
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Like the sound of that w!
However, I suspect the bar may be a wee bit higher, something along the lines of how much civil unrest might result? Said civil unrest merely in the eyes of the media and sfa/spfl and in no way meant to be rabble rousing of course.
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Allyjambo on February 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm
……………….
Exactly what I was trying to say 🙂
Just not as thoughtfully or eloquently as put by yourself 🙂
So in my own words
They can’t be bothered with the hassle 😉
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Not really what I was trying to say (so can’t be all that eloquent 🙄 )
What I meant was, rather than not being bothered, they just don’t have anything worthwhile to say, and know it. Think of the trolls and bears that came on here in the early days, mostly inarticulate and generally insulting with nothing intelligent to add. They did no real investigative work and just regurgitated the MSM press releases. Their efforts were easily shot down but it still took a while for them to realise they were getting nowhere – you generally don’t when you’ve nothing to go on. Assuming a number of more intelligent, financially savvy bears did do their own investigating, and came up with nothing to support the claims of, well everybody involved with RFC then TRFC, they had the sense to stay quiet.
Another theory of mine, and I believe it would run side by side with what I’ve just written, is, that in my experience of working with people who are ‘financially savvy’, from the banking and finance sector, they tend to support a football team, from a cross section of Scottish clubs but mostly (again in my experience) RFC (NIL). They weren’t all that interested in football (often keen to name drop International Rugby players like ‘Gavin’ (Hastings) as though they knew him from their schooldays, and many where I worked had been, at least, to the same school) unless RFC were doing well, when they became quite vocal, especially if a Celtic fan was in the vicinity, and keen to get freebies to Ibrox, seeing David Murray as an icon. I imagine, at the moment, they don’t often mention football and are too wrapped up in their own careers and importance to even bother about their club. I think, too, that a lot of these people supported the team David Murray ran, rather than admired Murray because he owned Rangers.
Anyway, what I’m saying, rather long windedly, is that the bears from the moneyed and financial sector have either looked, and found no hope nor excuse, or just weren’t all that committed to begin with.
Completely OT
For all posters on here who may be in a blind panic 🙁 about arranging the perfect day for their partner (hood luck all) 🙂
Remember Valentines day is historically the only day your better half can ask you to marry 🙂
So should they not be arranging that special day buying gifts rings etc to proclaim their love and devotion to you 😉
Just thought I would help you put with your excuses for tomorrow 🙂
Good luck and good all go’s Well for the romantic in us all
tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2014 at 5:29 pm
Remember Valentines day is historically the only day your better half can ask you to marry 🙂
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I thought that was Feb 29th? Or was it April 1st?
Allyjambo on February 13, 2014 at 5:17 pm
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tcup 2012 says:
February 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Allyjambo on February 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm ……………….
Exactly what I was trying to say Just not as thoughtfully or eloquently
as put by yourself So in my own words They can’t be bothered with the
hassle ———————————————————Not really what I was trying to say (so
can’t be all that eloquent )
………….
Ally.
As I said My words 🙁
I’m sorry but I’m the sort of person who finds it hard to put his thoughts into the printed word 🙁
21. ernie says:
February 13, 2014 at 5:16 pm
Civil unrest, you say?
Maybe thats why a few daft Dons fans are upping the anti as they see a gap in that ‘market’ that may secure their future if it all goes down the pan 🙂
Tartanwulver on February 13, 2014 at 5:31 pm
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tcup 2012 says: February 13, 2014 at 5:29 pm
Remember Valentines day is historically the only day your better
half can ask you to marry ———————————–I thought that was Feb 29th? Or was it April 1st?
……. …….
Shoosh you will ruin my excuse 🙁 I have bren using it for years 😉
Besides if we all say it they will believe it
500 million people already believe rangers are still alive 😉
Carntyne says:
February 13, 2014 at 5:22 pm
Take a chill pill for the paranoia.
Have you not heard that Peter Lawwell is now running Scottish Football.
You will be OK 🙂
wottpi says:
February 13, 2014 at 2:54 pm
21 0 Rate This
As discussed the other day Aberdeen seems to be sitting on historic debts to the bank and other parties of around £15m. They are trying to run a tight ship with total running costs being around £9m but only bringing in circa £7.5m. There performance this year may bring in more fans, generate new income etc to help alleviate their financial position. However the fact remains that they have a credit facility with the bank and some benefactors who are happy with the situation.
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They should be safe enough, as long as Masterton/Murray have no involvement with their bank
blu says:
February 13, 2014 at 5:01 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 13, 2014 at 12:20 pm
Bawsman says:
February 13, 2014 at 10:30 am
The ‘Solvency Courtesy of the Easdales?’ notion did appear in the LSE Share Chat forum. Algorithmic started the thread, which is still open.
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Yea but Algorithmic only appeared on LSE for the first time 2 days ago and certainly appears to have little sympathy for Rangers. I was not referring to ‘Solvency Courtesy of the Easdales?’ in my earlier post but rather cautioning against getting too excited about a brand-new poster appearing on LSE and stating his ‘City’ sources are predicting admin for Rangers tomorrow.
I could predict the same on the basis that it’s Valentines Day but will it? I haven’t a clue but then I don’t have any ‘City’ sources 😆