Reflections on Goalposts

ByDanish Pastry

Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

About the author

Danish Pastry author

4,642 Comments so far

pepperamiPosted on8:02 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

What happens if something does happen in two weeks mate known Phil’s track record I wouldn’t bet against it.

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scapaflowPosted on8:03 pm - Jan 22, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:52 pm

Allegedly, I get a special family rate, but since he is coy about his rates, the suspicion is that its twice the usual one 😆

D&P are part of the problem, but they can only exist, because the professional bodies tacitly, or not so tacitly, condone their activities. I can say that because I won’t get a nasty letter from either half of the gruesome twosome. 😎

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ecobhoyPosted on8:05 pm - Jan 22, 2014


I know you are all probably fed-up with my posts dismantling the accusations that Celtic got the Westthorn ground on the cheap from Glasgow District Council.

Those reading my posts will be aware that I blew the Bear Land Experts claims out the water that there was no ground problems at Westthorn that merited a price deduction by the Council because of the abnormal ground conditions which is normal practice when impaired sites are sold.

I discovered a number of adverse factors arising out of the land’s industrial Heritage in the 1800s up until the 1930s which I have detailed in previous posts. And then I discovered there had been a coal mine on the site for at least 100-150 years which was extensively worked.

It now seems I got it wrong and it could well be that there was more than one pit as revealed in the Caledonian Mercury newspaper which stated on 21 December 1811: ‘On Friday last, at West-thorn colliery, about two miles east from Glasgow, a collier was killed by an explosion of fire-damp in one of the pits. He has left a wife and four children. Another man was severely hurt.’

Those were hard times and the wife and kids probably ended-up in the workhouse sad to say.

How irresponsible of the Bears to make claims that Celtic or the Council were involved in a criminal conspiracy to Celtic’s benefit when there is ample easily-accessible info which clearly shows that the ground suffered from abnormal conditions and yet the Bears trumpet the false claim that their ‘forensic investigation’ revealed the only thing ‘impaired’ at Westthorn was the price paid by Celtic.

I think they’ve been watching too much CSI and they’d be better off launching a forensic investigation into what’s going down at Ibrox and where the money’s gone – sadly they don’t have the skills and even if they did they would be too frightened at what might slither out 😆

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hamemadesoupPosted on8:09 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Is it a likely scenario that Mr Whyte’s return , is anything to do with the mooted ” sale and leaseback” ?

If he still some how has the deeds(personally , I think he has) , surely he’s the only guy that can sell , or should I keep my conspiracies theories to myself ? 😉

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on8:11 pm - Jan 22, 2014


pepperami says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:02 pm
1 0 Rate This

Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

What happens if something does happen in two weeks mate known Phil’s track record I wouldn’t bet against it.

===============================================

then i’ll be amongst the 1st to congratulate him for being a big tease!!!

😛

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ecobhoyPosted on8:14 pm - Jan 22, 2014


pepperami says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

What happens if something does happen in two weeks mate known Phil’s track record I wouldn’t bet against it.
=================================================
As my granny always used to say: ‘What will be will be.’ We’ll find out soon enough if anything happens and when it does it will be worth discussing IMHO. Until then it’s merely speculation and you might as well say what you think it’s all about because you have as much chance of calling it correctly as anyone else 😎

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on8:14 pm - Jan 22, 2014


m.c.f.c. says:
January 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm

5

0

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manandboy says:
January 22, 2014 at 6:18 pm

….entitled ? – anybody?
=============================================================
Final Destination 3

=============================================================

From Blue to Whyte to Green to Black&Blue

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ecobhoyPosted on8:17 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Yogi says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:06 pm

I wonder if many on here are aware of the Celtic Nation FC in Carlisle who many view as Celtic’s Trojan Horse to enter the English system. I also endorse CQN’s viewpoint that Scottish football would be much healthier without this club.
==================================================
I would be surprised if any regular poster wasn’t aware of Celtic Nation given the number of times people attempt to raise it here. Personally it’s a discussion I am happy to leave on CQN.

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scapaflowPosted on8:20 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Yogi says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:06 pm

It may well be that you and Paul are right the Celtic’s future is either in the EPL, or more likely in my view, some sort of European regional league set up.

But, with the EPL as it stands, I would be careful what you wish for. The EPL looks strong on the surface, but like the post war Japanese economy, the foundations are very shaky. Everyone though the Japanese economy would go on on for ever, a thirty year economic miracle, then in 1989, the bubble collapsed, and its taken them decades to recover.

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pepperamiPosted on8:21 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Yogi says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:06 pm

I live in England and to say how celtic would get on is like throwing a dart at a dart board blind folded who knows where it would land many things would happen in ways of transfers better players more sponsorship would better players gel? Ect.

It’s just impossible to say though I believe a lot of clubs would have genuine fear of us in terms of size of stadium and fans we all ready have. World wide. Financially we would probably leap frog most teams in the epl almost straight away could we use it to our advantage. To hard to say .

I’m scottish and come from Glasgow I have this conversation all the time

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pepperamiPosted on8:22 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:11 pm

Lol time will tell mate

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on8:23 pm - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:14 pm
0 0 Rate This

pepperami says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

What happens if something does happen in two weeks mate known Phil’s track record I wouldn’t bet against it.
=================================================
As my granny always used to say: ‘What will be will be.’ We’ll find out soon enough if anything happens and when it does it will be worth discussing IMHO. Until then it’s merely speculation and you might as well say what you think it’s all about because you have as much chance of calling it correctly as anyone else 😎

=========================================

as much as I would agree with that…..my issue is that Phil clearly has a good track record on all things dastardly at Sevco Towers…so, in general his utterings carry a bit more weight than the likes of mine.

However, my questions to phil were not urging him to spill his guts/betray a source, simply to give us some more background on the source/veracity/extent of his knowledge on what might come.

We’ve had Alex Thommo, also a very well respected journalist, comment on the CW utterings too. However, these utterings don’t appear to have been broadcast in any form of media – so, have both journalists been given a story for different sources, or is it a case one is simply repeating what another trusted friend/journo has passed on…….if so, it’s about as reliable as me tecting my pal that CW is back, him posting it on KDS and me posting it on here and you seeing both posts and suggesting it’s from 2 different, unrelated sources.

I don’t mean to offend phil, he has had some cracking scoops – but he’s also flown a few kites.

I’ve asked him to try and give us an idea if this is genuine or kite flying, his response leads ME (maybe everyone else was happy with the reply) to suggest this is a punt.

EDIT: I would also like to add that Phil is one of the few who post here/twitter that will actually reply to such questions, because of that, he’ll get called out more when he trails a story – as guys like Speirs/English will ignore it. So more power to you Phil – and I really hope you have a story!!

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YogiPosted on8:24 pm - Jan 22, 2014


No problem Ecobhoy I am pleased all the regular posters are so well informed and have requested deletion of my post.

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Tif FinnPosted on8:34 pm - Jan 22, 2014


This gives a breakdown of the turnover for EPL clubs in 2012. This includes how much they got from TV revenue.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

If you take Blackburn Rover for example, their turnover is £54m which I think might be considered comparable with Celtic’s. However of that the breakdown is as follows.

Gate and matchday: £5m

TV and broadcasting: £41m

Commercial: £8m

So over 75% of their income comes from TV money.

Fulham, a mid league team had a turnover of £79m. That breaks down as

Gate and matchday: £11m

Europa League: £3m

TV and broadcasting: £51m

Sponsorship and commercial: £12m

Compensation: £1m

So TV money accounts for about 65% of income.

The bottom line, in my opinion is that if Celtic were to go to that league, or get there via the Championship, than realistically the turnover would probably be around the £80 – £90m level, based on current ticket prices and uptake, merchandising etc staying the same but adding a far superior TV income.

I do not want this to happen, however I think that would be a realsitic starting point if it were to happen and Celtic went straight there or got promoted via the championship.

I know the figures are much more complicated than that but I have kept it deliberately simplistic.

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beatipacificiscotiaPosted on8:36 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

I feel your pain, some of the nudge-nudge wink-wink stuff from Phil is frustrating. However, credit where it is due, Phil is right often enough to warrant respect and I dare say he has a better handle on this that most of us (and has better sources). More importantly, it wouldn’t do to let the cat out of the bag and warn someone off doing something – particularly if you want them to do it!

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indy14Posted on8:44 pm - Jan 22, 2014


I think they’ve been watching too much CSI and they’d be better off launching a forensic investigation into what’s going down at Ibrox and where the money’s gone – sadly they don’t have the skills and even if they did they would be too frightened at what might slither out 😆
——–
they were going to make a series of CSI Govan but during Pre Production it became apparent that everyone in Govan had no teeth and all shared the same DNA

ok off to Frankfurt, bye, keep up the good work I’ll check on the TD’s for this bad boy on Friday! 😆

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Cluster OnePosted on8:46 pm - Jan 22, 2014


@ ecobhoy know you are all probably fed-up with my posts dismantling the accusations that Celtic got the Westthorn ground on the cheap from Glasgow District Council.
I may be wrong but it may be worth checking if it can be found?
a coal mine on the site for at least 100-150 years which was extensively worked…..Riverside school and houses to be knocked down because they are sinking because of mine shafts…..
There must have been a letter telling families the houses were to be knocked down because they were sinking.Or their may be a minutes of a meeting to local residents as to why the place was to get demolished in the early eighties.
LETTER OR MINUTES MAY SAY BECAUSE OF MINE SHAFTS

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Danish PastryPosted on8:47 pm - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:05 pm
7 0 Rate This
————

Remarkable info. Apart the CFC issues, isn’t the Lottery the thing to apply to if you wanted to create a local history-heritage-museum project; early industrial revolution, and so on. Lots of nice buildings around that could house such a project.

OT
Btw @echobhoy, I spent yesterday evening going through maps of the old East End around White Vale, Duke Street, etc. Fantastic to see the development from map to map. Even saw when my own tenement appeared, where my great, great granda lived (Inglis Street) and the spread of factories — some more poisonous than others. Also perused Montrose, and found the actual sites where my forebears (yes, and even Celtic fans have forebears 🙂 ) lived, as the tenants were marked in on the 1832 map.

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justshateredPosted on8:52 pm - Jan 22, 2014


What if Craig Whyte has more tapes, say of Campbell Ogilvie and Doncaster or Regan, promising future Champions League money to ensure survival?
In the current match fixing climate would this not be a game changer…….. even in Scotland.
Remember they had dinner the October before Administration. I would loved to have been a fly on the wall at that chimps party!
Perhaps Craig got them to state on tape various guarantees for RFC’s future.
Perhaps, to go down an even murkier road, Ogilvie was a go between RFC and Celtic to carve up league titles to ensure the survival of the ‘Old Firm’ brand. To drag Celtic into this tawdry affair would really cause a stink.

My paranoia is now running amok.
I’m away for a lie down.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on8:55 pm - Jan 22, 2014


neepheid says:
January 22, 2014 at 4:23 pm

Scottish society has been brought low by venal, selfish scoundrels, who revel in division, who care nothing for integrity, who just scratch each others backs and to hell with the rest, What is Scotland, or Scottish football to people like that? And the more that we, the real people of Scottish football, show our commitment the hard way, by spending money we can, in many cases, ill afford , the louder they laugh as they take the money from our pockets.

I suddenly realise that for the second time in one day, I have abused the hospitality of this forum by going off on a rant. Sorry, folks, I’ll give you all a rest from my moralising for a day or two now.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To be fair it was a good rant though and your penultimate paragraph (quoted above) sums up Scotland to a tee.

As youse know I take a close interest in Young Alistairs welfare. It seems he is being out manoevered by the spivs/MH at the moment and the fans are starting to turn against him.

His various provocations of the Board re giving proxy to fans, arguing against players pay cut etc is going to get him into hot water and possible disciplinary issues should he continue to be so divisive within the club that he loves and which is so popular all around the world.

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Paulmac2Posted on9:18 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:23 pm
…………………………………

Deflection is what it looks like…current cash problems…Ally under pressure…running out of cash…pay cuts…suddenly the off the radar kid wants everyone to have 2 weeks notice of his arrival?…

I guess Phil can’t say to much just incase he is being mugged off…which I can’t blame him…we shall see..

But I have my suspicions on the timing.

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James DolemanPosted on9:22 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent

No offence but your questions were not ones I would answer when dealing with a source. Just too close to the bone.

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John ClarkPosted on9:26 pm - Jan 22, 2014


My holding email reply from UKLA :
” If your query is not urgent, please be aware that we work to a service level of 12 working days, and it is likely that it will take this long to respond to you..”
————–
I understand that staff numbers at the new regulator are 4 000+.

12 days to answer a simple query?

What can they all be doing, I wonder. We know that they sure as hell are not chasing and catching all the big bad financial scammers and conmen.
Or even the wee crooked shysters that hang around dodgy football clubs telling lies about their business and phoneying up their prospectus.

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Tif FinnPosted on9:31 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Sometimes revealing everything you know can reduce the likely sources of that information to a very small number, which when allied to other things can all but reveal the source.

Duty of care dictates that in circumstances like that the information simply cannot be revealed. This serves to protect the source, from both a safety point of view and as a continued source of information.

Good guys don’t ask.

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John ClarkPosted on9:36 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Tif Finn says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:31 pm
‘..Good guys don’t ask.’
———-
I’ve been told that once or twice, long ago.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on9:44 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Tif Finn says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:31 pm
4 0 Rate This

Sometimes revealing everything you know can reduce the likely sources of that information to a very small number, which when allied to other things can all but reveal the source.

Duty of care dictates that in circumstances like that the information simply cannot be revealed. This serves to protect the source, from both a safety point of view and as a continued source of information.

Good guys don’t ask.

=======================

fair enough…..so, what does someone saying “i know something you don’t know” say about that person?

put up or shut up – no?

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Billy BoycePosted on9:46 pm - Jan 22, 2014


It looks like even ‘Private Eye’ has got in on the act with its own bushy tailed rodent.

Planet Football

Celtic

Under pressure from regulators as well as the Treasury committee, the Co-operative Bank wasted no time adding the recent land sale by Glasgow city council to Celtic to the security held for the bank’s £33m funding. A charge over the land near Celtic Park was granted on 19 December, seven days after the council approved the sale.

The Co-Op was big on football clubs, but Celtic has been probably the biggest beneficiary of that largesse – unrelated, no doubt, to the presence on that club’s board of former Labour ministers John Reid (who has since left) and Brian Wilson (still there). But the new, more professional management at the bank may be less generous.

The Celtic facility consists of long-term loans of £21m and an overdraft facility of £12m. Both are cheap to run, being fixed at a little more than Libor/bank rate plus 1 percent. So the overdraft last year cost just 1.5 percent and the loans 1.65 percent. When those deals were done, base rate was much higher, but the deals are still sweet. Similarly, Celtic seems to gave benefited from favourable terms in its land deals with the traditionally Labour-dominated local council.

One interesting omission from the otherwise detailed Celtic accounts for 2013 relates to related party transactions during the year. There is reference to “a number of transactions, principally for the supply of goods and services” between the club itself, the subsidiary Celtic FC, with “organisations in which some directors have an interest, as directors or shareholders of the other contracting party”.

Shareholders are assured that such transactions were “at arms length” and “of an insignificant nature”. So no information is provided as to which directors, what goods and services and how much! Not exactly how the related party game is usually played. It should be up to shareholders to decide about the shortness of arms and significance and that requires full information. A yellow card.

‘Slicker’

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StevieBCPosted on9:47 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Who wote this ?
=============
“…Some will have already made up their minds about the competency or incompetency of Brian Stockbridge as a financial director, or Ally as manager, and perhaps with good cause. But to lay the blame for our financial woes at the feet of either of these gentlemen is merely skirting over the more serious issues affecting our club. We need to eradicate the culture of excess at our club from top to bottom, from directors to tea lady if required…”
=============
Some reasonable sounding stuff there on RM – and ‘penned’ by the regular poster ‘D’Artagnan’.
[Won’t post link to the thread.]
Think the bears are getting softened up by the Board for some bad news ?

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Angus1983Posted on9:59 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Yogi says:

No problem Ecobhoy I am pleased all the regular posters are so well informed and have requested deletion of my post.
——

I don’t think there’s any need to go that far. There are some personalities on here who hold themselves in high regard, and can come across as quite rude when I’m sure that’s not their intenion.

No-one on this blog’s opinions on footballing issues are worth more or less than yours.

Personally, I’d never heard of this Celtic Nation FC. Although I don’t intend to research them further, it’s interesting to be aware of their existence in the context you mention.

Meanwhile, remind me why we’re getting quite so worked up about some coal mines in Glasgow? Is this to do with the “Celtic-buy-land-Bears-think-it’s-a-con” story in the MSM which appeared briefly recently, and then sank without trace?

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jean7brodiePosted on10:09 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:59 pm

No-one on this blog’s opinions on footballing issues are worth more or less than yours.
—————————————————————————————

Absolutely agree 100%

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scapaflowPosted on10:24 pm - Jan 22, 2014


jean7brodie says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:09 pm

absolutely. There was a good bit of to and fro on the Celtic in England thing today.

@Billy Boyce

Hadn’t seen that piece in Eye, Ceasar’s wife needs to be beyond reproach seems a good maxim when looking at these kind of transactions.

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jean7brodiePosted on10:39 pm - Jan 22, 2014


I think I’m gonna jump on this bandwagon of people saying ‘I posted this last year etc’ 😉

I, yes I (admittedly of the nothing much to say but when I do it gets removed), would like to remind you all of the comment I made about mucking out the Augean Stables.
This mess won’t be cleaned up by diverting the Clyde.

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scapaflowPosted on10:43 pm - Jan 22, 2014


jean7brodie says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:39 pm

Time to unleash the Stymphalian Birds on the beggers? 🙂

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jean7brodiePosted on10:46 pm - Jan 22, 2014


scapaflow says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:43 pm

And let their dung do its work 😉

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Kicker ConspiracyPosted on11:02 pm - Jan 22, 2014


indy14 says:
January 22, 2014 at 6:36 pm

I said it back in RTC days, all anyone had to do was look at Murrays track record…
…he started for arguments sake with Basketball (Murray somethings) then walked away and invested in Ice Hockey (Fife Flyers?)

————————————————————–

Pretty sure he was involved in field hockey rather than ice hockey. Certainly not with the Flyers.
Although funnily enough there is an OCNC debate to be had concerning that team.
Perhaps another time.

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scapaflowPosted on11:03 pm - Jan 22, 2014


jean7brodie says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:46 pm

:mrgreen: edit That’s no way to speak about Mr Young

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scapaflowPosted on11:26 pm - Jan 22, 2014


mmm A new Charlotte2weeks account is putting some stuff about our old chums D&P and Mr Green back(?) up on scribd and soundcloud. audio file seems lengthy around 136Mb

Wonder how long before they get pulled this time?

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:38 pm - Jan 22, 2014


manandboy says:
January 22, 2014 at 2:52 pm

“Perhaps it is time the collective forensic mind we know as TSFM, applied itself”
————————
That’s an irresistibly juicy piece of bait.

Lets assume that Charlotte was indeed acting from a largely altruistic perspective.

So SDM sets up CW as his fall guy around 2009.

CW manages to secure tenure of Ibrox & MP.

A dispute between CW and CG/IA is engineered for dramatic effect.

RIFC distress TRFCL to the point of insolvency.

The ownership of Ibrox and MP become subject to a legal dispute.

SDM recognises the value in Rangers as an iconic rallying point for his ‘friends’.

He engineers the return of these property assets to their ‘rightful ownership’.

If the footballing/judicial/media authorities are as corrupt as is now suspected, might SDM have some invisible leverage to pull off such a stunt.

Very tasty but I think I now have a barb in my top lip.

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calums obsessionPosted on11:53 pm - Jan 22, 2014


What is all the posting & reposting of documents on twitter about & is it linked to CWs name being bandied about again? Is it all to divert attention from something; look at this in the past, while we do something unspeakable just now? Interestingly I don’t think SDMs PR dudes are involved if the doc about project Charlotte/William is real! It details back in oct 2011 a plan for the early stages of an ibrox insolvency event, months before admin…….I’m sure most of u will know this one already but caught me by surprise!
A link to the document posted by The Count on twitter
@oisin71: @FrPaulStone @ellen_coyle Here is a link to the matrix before @Charlotte2Weeks posts it up himself.
http://t.co/wWohSyK7g8

It was Posted by the Count because Charlotte2Weeks posted this thread of emails to CW which highlights that project Charlotte was MIH driven!

@Charlotte2Weeks: Paul Clark of Duff & Phelps Cc’d in emails 5 months before Rangers enter Administration, Why? http://t.co/sdgvN6ns0r

All the time I’ve spent lurking on RTC /SFM and then Twitter reading the gossip, critiques, squirrels etc and I am still clueless. I’ve probably read all this already and can’t remember. I hope someone does a book about all this and includes a Dummies version for me!
Calum

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davythelotionPosted on12:04 am - Jan 23, 2014


Billy Boyce says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:46 pm
##
Let’s chase this squirrel. ‘Slicker’ states:
but Celtic has been probably the biggest beneficiary of that largesse
Either it has or hasn’t been, if Celtic has been the biggest beneficiary of Coop Banks largesse, is it the fault of the lender or the borrower?
Slicker states:
When those deals were done, base rate was much higher, but the deals are still sweet. Similarly, Celtic seems to gave benefited from favourable terms in its land deals with the traditionally Labour-dominated local council.
‘Seems to have…’ Celtic either have or haven’t benefitted, ‘deals are still sweet’ compared to what?
Slicker states:
Not exactly how the related party game is usually played. It should be up to shareholders to decide about the shortness of arms and significance and that requires full information. A yellow card.
How is the ‘related party’ game played?
How do shareholders decide on ‘shortness of arms’ ?
What is ‘full information’?

There is no doubt that Jack has felt the need to run this particular squirrel in the hope that it would take the heat off Sevco. If Jack’s employers think that this is money well spent then they deserve everything that’s coming to them.

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scapaflowPosted on12:20 am - Jan 23, 2014


Looks this new kid on the tweet block may end up in tears before bedtime. He’s allegedly been outed, oh dear. Well I suppose, re-using an old twitter account for a new purpose, is probably not a good idea 😉

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BartinMainPosted on12:20 am - Jan 23, 2014


Dave King is in tomorrow’s Herald, attacking Wallace’s austerity measures.

Strange?

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BartinMainPosted on12:24 am - Jan 23, 2014


I tried to post the Rangers Media thread on the above, but it wouldn’t let me. If you can face it, there’s an excerpt of the headline over there in the “Tomorrows Herald” thread.

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scapaflowPosted on12:27 am - Jan 23, 2014


BartinMain says:
January 23, 2014 at 12:20 am

Mr King “Club must invest and back manager”

Has Mr King inherited the magic beans?

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pepperamiPosted on12:48 am - Jan 23, 2014


Tif Finn says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:34 pm

I’m sure we would increase the season ticket prices dunno for certain but I’m pretty sure if we charged the same as we do now we would probably be charging the lowest amount for season tickets in the epl maybe even lower than some championship clubs?

All speculation of course but interesting the same

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HirsutePursuitPosted on12:58 am - Jan 23, 2014


http://coal.decc.gov.uk/en/coal/cms/publications/data/map/map.aspx
Coal board interactive map is here

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on1:05 am - Jan 23, 2014


calums obsession says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:53 pm

What is all the posting & reposting of documents on twitter about & is it linked to CWs name being bandied about again? Is it all to divert attention from something; look at this in the past, while we do something unspeakable just now? Interestingly I don’t think SDMs PR dudes are involved if the doc about project Charlotte/William is real! It details back in oct 2011 a plan for the early stages of an ibrox insolvency event, months before admin…….I’m sure most of u will know this one already but caught me by surprise!
A link to the document posted by The Count on twitter
@oisin71: @FrPaulStone @ellen_coyle Here is a link to the matrix before @Charlotte2Weeks posts it up himself.
http://t.co/wWohSyK7g8

It was Posted by the Count because Charlotte2Weeks posted this thread of emails to CW which highlights that project Charlotte was MIH driven!

@Charlotte2Weeks: Paul Clark of Duff & Phelps Cc’d in emails 5 months before Rangers enter Administration, Why? http://t.co/sdgvN6ns0r
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is an email from Withey which says:

“Charlotte was an MIH driven name”

meaning to my untutored mind that MIH initiated the Insolvency/liquidation planning before Whyte volunteered as the patsy when he bought the club.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on1:09 am - Jan 23, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
January 23, 2014 at 12:58 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ecobhoys research has got me thinking – Assuming that modern technology is able to access the coal that was last worked over a Century ago I think Celtic are sitting on a fortune and will do very well from this land deal. I just hope no squirrels are harmed in the process.

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peterjungPosted on1:54 am - Jan 23, 2014


Re the new account on Twitter going under the guise of Charlotte2Weeks:

https://twitter.com/Charlotte2Weeks

From what I can see this is someone reposting information previously saved by others from the original Charlottefakeover.

For example the third tweet from Charlotte2Weeks provides a link to an audio file posted on SoundCloud.

This audio file is an attempt at splicing together and enhancing the original audio quality on a group of audio files posted by Charlottefakeover on Twitter on 2013-06-08. The original audio was posted on Twitter by Charlottefakeover in eight separate files.

The file on SoundCloud was created by myself from the original eight audio files and posted on SoundCloud on 2013-06-14. I also posted a link to the SoundCloud file in a post on TSFM on the same day at 9:18am blog time:

http://www.tsfm.org.uk/2013/06/the-spfl-the-case-for-revolution-evolution-and-a-case-of-the-hamilton-whackies/comment-page-4/#comments

Just for the record I have no connection to, or knowledge of, whoever is posting on Twitter under the name Charlotte2Weeks.

I have no comment on the veracity or otherwise of the Twitter account Charlotte2Weeks and only make this post to make the facts behind this particular tweet clear.

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Bryce CurdyPosted on4:04 am - Jan 23, 2014


Absolutely fed up with these childish ‘ I know something that you don’t know’ type posts that bring down the overall standard of an otherwise fine blog. When the two weeks or whatever time period passes and nothing has actually happened everybody forgets the original claim.

It’s just so self indulgent and attention seeking. ‘What apropos me?’.

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FIFAPosted on6:35 am - Jan 23, 2014


Nearly one week to the transfer market closes ,the sweat beads must be starting to show on the financial team at RIFC, surely if no one is sold and it doesnt look as if any cuts are going to made ,well that would make a significant saving ,if they where they surely would have been implemented by now,we go into Feb with the same spend,if I was a caring bear I would be getting more than a little concerned ,that on top of the White Knight threat ,interesting 2 weeks ahead.

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jimlarkinPosted on7:05 am - Jan 23, 2014


The Lying King wants Sevco to keep spending on new players !!!

The emperors new clothes syndrome – getting to endemic level

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/keep-spending-on-squad-urges-king.23251877?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:12 am - Jan 23, 2014


jimlarkin says:
January 23, 2014 at 7:05 am
================================
I gave up my Herald online subscription some time ago so I can’t read the whole article. The sentiment of it though is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing. Possibly they’re not much different to most other Scottish newspapers, but most don’t charge me to read Ibrox propaganda, should I choose to do so.

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scottcPosted on7:54 am - Jan 23, 2014


upthehoops says:
January 23, 2014 at 7:12 am

I gave up my Herald online subscription some time ago so I can’t read the whole article.

Delete your HeraldScotland cookies then try again

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wottpiPosted on8:03 am - Jan 23, 2014


jimlarkin says:
January 23, 2014 at 7:05 am

With everyone else walking away it looks like Dave King and Sally are the last Rangers Men standing. Of them at leastMcCoist is in a position within ‘the club’ to have some form of influence, albeit less and less each passing day.

If the Spivs can just wangle something to get that last tranche of season ticket money from the fans then my guess is that McCoist will go and finally all the Rangers Men will be consigned to history and not one of them will have put their money where their mouth was.

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JimBhoyPosted on8:07 am - Jan 23, 2014


@JimLarkin re: King…

Kingy, the ONLY hope for many of the rangers fans seems to have misjudged the situation at Ibrox IMO… A lot of angry bears want the removal of AMcC and blame him for a lot of the financial issues they currently face, regards his sal and his large expensive group of players at his disposal… 30% of expenditure is for the FIRST team but how much does it cost to keep ALL the playing staff and support people in jobs..
Kingy could have split the his support with his strange suggestion of spending more, increasing playing staff and backing the manager.. Maybe more doubt on his suitability as the bear’s saviour.. Then again it will appeal to some with hopes of getting back to their old ways.
Kingy is obviously having a cheap dig at the directors and shareholders, cheap being the operative word.. For a man with wealth truly off the radar he seems to do a lot of media posturing with little financial substance to back up his pretentions.
Mr King seems to be trying to drum up support that may suit his MO but would probably see the present rangers die. So much for the saviour..Just my opinion..

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Danish PastryPosted on8:16 am - Jan 23, 2014


peterjung on January 23, 2014 at 1:54 am
13 0 Rate This

Re the new account on Twitter going under the guise of Charlotte2Weeks:
———–

I noticed it went to your SoundClick page Peter. Odd that. Someone is paying attenton.

Fascinating to hear the audio again, though, which can only have been recorded by CW, surely? Thought I heard CW say, ‘Duff & Duffer’ 😉

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ptd1978Posted on8:37 am - Jan 23, 2014


So the last two Rangers men:
Dave King – a criminal with convictions for tax evasion.
Ally McCoist – a wide boy who wanted to hide the true details of his salary from investors by setting up a huge guaranteed bonus instead. I wonder where he got that idea?
I’d never have believed it but they actually manage to make men like Stockbridge sound like they might be better for Sevco than going back to the old club’s ways.

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neepheidPosted on8:44 am - Jan 23, 2014


http://www.allmediascotland.com/press/59144/media-mover-mark-mcsherry-xxxx-etc/

ONE of Scotland’s most influential sports journalists, Tom English, is leaving as chief sportswriter at The Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday.

English – who is also a well-known and forthright pundit on BBC Radio Scotland – pens, among other things, a mid-week column for The Scotsman. He also writes a column for Scotland on Sunday.

His final column for SoS will be this weekend.

He is taking advantage of a voluntary redundancy offer made by the papers’ publisher, Johnston Press, towards the end of last year.

His decorated career includes five successive Scottish Press Awards, as Sports Feature Writer of the Year.

He is author of two books. One – ‘The Grudge’, about rugby union’s 1990 Grand Slam match between Scotland and England – took the Best Rugby Book prize at the 2011 British Sports Book Awards. It has also had its film rights taken up by Bedlam Productions, arguably best known for making The King’s Speech.

He is also co-author of ‘Behind the Lions: Playing Rugby for the British & Irish Lions’, with Stephen Jones, Nick Cain and David Barnes.

It is understood he plans to take a break from writing, for at least a little while.

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jimlarkinPosted on8:49 am - Jan 23, 2014


JimBhoy says:
January 23, 2014 at 8:07 am
2 1 Rate This

@JimLarkin re: King…

Kingy, the ONLY hope for many of the rangers fans seems to have misjudged the situation at Ibrox IMO… A lot of angry bears want the removal of AMcC and blame him for a lot of the financial issues they currently face, regards his sal and his large expensive group of players at his disposal… 30% of expenditure is for the FIRST team but how much does it cost to keep ALL the playing staff and support people in jobs..
Kingy could have split the his support with his strange suggestion of spending more, increasing playing staff and backing the manager.. Maybe more doubt on his suitability as the bear’s saviour.. Then again it will appeal to some with hopes of getting back to their old ways.
Kingy is obviously having a cheap dig at the directors and shareholders, cheap being the operative word.. For a man with wealth truly off the radar he seems to do a lot of media posturing with little financial substance to back up his pretentions.

Mr King seems to be trying to drum up support that may suit his MO but would probably see the present rangers die.

So much for the saviour..Just my opinion..
====================================================

. . . “Mr King seems to be trying to drum up support that may suit his MO but would probably see the present rangers die”

=====

The same as the original Rangers(1872-NiL)

IiRC – that was one thong King said that was not a Lie –
he said that, if the CVA failed, then Rangers* would die, and that Sevco would indeed be a new club.

When King said that, chico verde was annoyed and said that if King was a true Rangers* fan, he would not say such things [even though it was true].

So, although Kingy admitted that Rangers died – because of the Rangersness, he just doesn’t seem to accept
The fact either.

Unusual concept
. . . Telling the truth to the world, but. . . Lying to himself !.

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andygraham.66Posted on8:55 am - Jan 23, 2014


So Tom English is giving up his job for voluntary redundancy

Here is an idea Tom, go out on Sunday all guns blazing, you know like Jim Traynor did.

However do it without the Rangeritis chip on the shoulder that Traynor did.

You know the truth, you know the absurdity of everything that has happened these last 30-36 months or so. Lay it out for all to see.

Yes you will get pelters from Sevconia that you are just a tired old Rangers hating Irishman, but you will get a lot of people who believe that everything that comes from the pen of broadsheet journalists is true, finally seeing the information laid bare that very few people get to see who don’t go looking for it

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ecobhoyPosted on9:06 am - Jan 23, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
January 23, 2014 at 12:58 am

http://coal.decc.gov.uk/en/coal/cms/publications/data/map/map.aspx
Coal board interactive map is here
===========================================
HP – you are a STAR ❗

I was looking for that site but got buried in the history which is something which always fascinates me.

I’ve already started looking and tbh I would hate to be one of the Bear Land ‘experts’ responsible for the ‘forensic examination’ of Celtic’s Westthorn land deal never mind the Lennoxtown one.

I’m having difficulty in accepting they could be as stupid as they seem to be and my mind strays back to this being a giant PR-driven squirrel to divert attention away from the collapse threatening to engulf Rangers and Ibrox – maybe they should check to see if there is any abnormal ground conditions, I will anyway but might not tell them 😆

I’ll do a post on your find shortly and in the meantine: chapeau to you – not just for the info but for so ably demonstrating how TSFM posters can co-operate to reveal the facts and publish the truth.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:10 am - Jan 23, 2014


andygraham.66 says:
January 23, 2014 at 8:55 am

So Tom English is giving up his job for voluntary redundancy
=======================================================
Sadly from what I hear I doubt if The Scotsman is long for this world – it’s a pity because it has always been a much better product than The Herald which may get a temporary respite before it too collapses.

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AllyjamboPosted on9:54 am - Jan 23, 2014


jimlarkin says:

January 23, 2014 at 7:05 am

I cannot believe that King seriously believes his own words, well who would actually? At least he doesn’t put himself forward for a place on the RIFC board clearly realising that a ‘glib and consummate liar’ is not what is required at Ibrox… yet!

“King believes that as well as supporting McCoist, shareholders ought to have been open to working with Murray. “He is a man that all Rangers’ fans can completely trust,” said King.”

Apart from showing that King still has an interest in TRFC, as a supporter, there’s nothing in this article that should give comfort to the bears, as it sheds no light on where future funding might come from, or, indeed suggest that there is anyone out there willing to be that sugar daddy they await like they would a messiah!.

Seems to me he prefers Charles Green’s master plan to that of Graham Wallace’s grasp on reality. How on earth did he make those millions? Oh yeh, by being a glib and shameless liar!

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JimBhoyPosted on9:57 am - Jan 23, 2014


@JimLarkin I am sure the last time Kingy came over he claimed he had meeings set up with some of the movers and shakers at the time and I believe at least one of those important people he said he was meeting or had met with, was incommunicado, on vacation or at least out of the country.. Pants on fire..!!!

He was KB’d on the chairmanship (Mather) which I suspect may have been dependent on some up front readies for the rangers coffers and I believe he may have been offered the same position from the requisitioners hence his backing of (mini) Murray (as the gers fans refer to PM). I wonder why he is slightly bitter!? 😉

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easyJamboPosted on9:59 am - Jan 23, 2014


ecobhoy says: January 23, 2014 at 9:06 am

HirsutePursuit says: January 23, 2014 at 12:58 am
================================
The Scottish Mining website is another good resource for the history of mining across Scotland.
http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/index.html

There are sections on each of the mining areas, accidents, and some harrowing tales in the 1842 Children’s Commission report.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:00 am - Jan 23, 2014


davythelotion says:
January 23, 2014 at 12:04 am
Billy Boyce says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:46 pm

Let’s chase this squirrel. ‘Slicker’ states:
=============================================
Slicker is regarded as probably the first and certainly the most feared financial investigative journo in the City of London who didn’t regurgitate PR releases as a favour to get the odd titbit of ‘exclusive’ info and I have seen a lot of his work.

He has been at the Eye for a number of years still doing his thing.

But I have to say that the current article makes me wonder if he is still alive or whether others are now writing under his byline because it is so poor. When Slicker strikes there is blood and snaughters all over the gold paved streets and not this wishy washy offering. He just doesn’t do inuendo – he reveals the facts and the truth.

Seems all very strange to me – it would be easy to say strings are being pulled but the Slicker I speak of eats people like JI for breakfast.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:16 am - Jan 23, 2014


Kicker Conspiracy says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:02 pm
indy14 says:
January 22, 2014 at 6:36 pm

I said it back in RTC days, all anyone had to do was look at Murrays track recor … he started for arguments sake with Basketball (Murray somethings) then walked away and invested in Ice Hockey (Fife Flyers?)
————————————————————–
Pretty sure he was involved in field hockey rather than ice hockey. Certainly not with the Flyers.
—————————————————————————–
http://sbahistory02.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/facilities.html

‘Meanwhile Murray International had convinced the Livingston Development Committee that they should have a Sports Centre with spectator provision. The project was completed and MIM played European Cup and British League matches at their new home. This was the first and only facility in Scotland, built with the primary intention of holding basketball matches. Unfortuately David Murray lost interest in basketball after he purchased Glasgow Rangers FC and the building was later demolished.’

Funnily enough my memory was telling me he was involved with a Livingston-based ice hockey team but maybe I’m just getting mixed up.

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Danish PastryPosted on10:35 am - Jan 23, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 23, 2014 at 10:16 am
1 0 Rate This

‘… Unfortuately David Murray lost interest in basketball after he purchased Glasgow Rangers FC and the building was later demolished.’
————-

Not someone who cares about a sporting legacy of any description, apparently.

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Famous songPosted on10:45 am - Jan 23, 2014


The ice hockey team was the Livingston Rams, who had no Murray involvement. They played in the building that is now TK Maxx, due south of where MacArthur Glen now is. Late ’80s. All of this from what passes for my memory, so glad to be shot down in flames by those who know better. Although my mate was the captain.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:49 am - Jan 23, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:59 pm

Meanwhile, remind me why we’re getting quite so worked up about some coal mines in Glasgow? Is this to do with the “Celtic-buy-land-Bears-think-it’s-a-con” story in the MSM which appeared briefly recently, and then sank without trace?
======================================================
It would appear that you are the one getting worked-up.

However I never set any faith in SMSM doing the right thing or even being objective when the interests of Rangers are at stake.

After the initial stories, run by those stupid enough to swallow the PR squirrel without checking, got a very short call from lawyers they beat a hasty retreat with fingers badly burnt from swallowing far too hot succulent lamb or squirrel if it is more to your taste.

In case you are unaware the alleged criminal activities between Glasgow Council and Celtic on land deals is the basis of the case being made, supposedly by Rangers fans, to the European Commission to prove that Celtic illegally received State Aid.

For a nano-second the Bears were ecstatic about their ‘forensic investigation’ which had revealed and proven the alleged scam and would not only financially cripple Celtic but lead to all their titles being stripped.

Surely that is an extremely important story as it involves numerous Scottish public authorities right to the Scottish Government Ministers. Sadly, for them, their so-called ‘investigation’ is a pile of sheeite.

Now the egg is all over their face or should that be coal dust 😆

But, true to form, the SMSM hasn’t run the actual fact-based story which explains the truth on the Westthorn and Lennoxtown land deals – now why doesn’t that surprise me ❓

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Kicker ConspiracyPosted on11:07 am - Jan 23, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 23, 2014 at 10:16 am

Famous song says:
January 23, 2014 at 10:45 am

———————————————————————–

This article mentions his hockey team sponsorship near the end.
I take no responsibility for anyone feeling nauseous after reading it.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/profile-sir-david-murray-a-hard-act-to-follow-follow-1-1301547

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John ClarkPosted on11:17 am - Jan 23, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 23, 2014 at 10:00 am
—-
“….He has been at the Eye for a number of years still doing his thing.
But I have to say that the current article makes me wonder if he is still alive or whether others are now writing under his byline because it is so poor….”
————-
This link suggests very strongly to me that today’s ‘slicker’ in Private Eye,if there was ever a Professor Michael Gillard as the original ‘slicker’-over 40 years ago!-, is no longer he, but some much inferior staffer.
The description of his exaggerated secrecy etc is reminiscent of the ‘The Man in Black’ essays in the old Spectator of Addison and Steele days.

http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/412194/Slicker-phrase-the-devil-detail-couldhave-coined-writer-behind-one-feared-bylines-inprint-If-facts-true-says-mostinvestigative-journalists-Dominic-Prince-go/

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John ClarkPosted on11:25 am - Jan 23, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
January 23, 2014 at 10:35 am
“…..Not someone who cares about a sporting legacy of any description, apparently…”
—————
And in very stark contrast (all kidding aside) to many tens of thousands of supporters whose emotions are so deeply and heavily invested in their club-which SDM killed as they looked on dumbly- that they continue blindly to pour their actual cash into the pockets of the people currently ripping them off. ( Ally? If ever there should be an object of contempt greater even than SDM and the MSM people, it surely has to be him!)

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beanosPosted on11:25 am - Jan 23, 2014


i love the bit in that article where he says he has no plans to float as he didn’t want to lose control of his company.

how did that work out for him?

using the control he had, he mismanaged it so badly that the bank ended up taking most of the equity and control to satisfy the debt.

funny how things work out sometimes……..

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