The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
ecobhoy says:
September 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm
To each their own, and I respect your opinion.
However to me once they put on the uniform they are working and they are representing their country, that’s you and me. They are also being paid by their country, again you and me.
So to show an affiliation with one particular group is wholly inappropriate. It is also insulting to anyone who is not a part of that group. There should never be a message sent out that they hold one group in higher esteem than others.
Getting caught up in the occasion really isn’t an excuse for a member of our armed forces, that is totally the opposite of how they have been trained. That is just wrong, it is not the individual who is wearing the scarf, it is the uniform. If they want to go dressed in their civies I have no particular problem. However in uniform it sends out all the wrong message.
upthehoops says:
September 25, 2013 at 9:22 pm
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ecobhoy says:
September 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm
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The whole concern I have with the Ibrox troops thing is what the extreme element of the Rangers support (and that element is significant in size) perceive the armed forces to represent. The same as what they perceive the Union Flag to represent, and thain rather tah any sense of pride in the country’s armed forcese same reason as why they love the anti-Catholic exclusivity of the Monarchy. If past and present Rangers boards are pandering to that warped mindset (and you can’t rule it out) then shame on them forever.
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Your bang on the money(sic). The desire to be seen as the most British loving team there is has more to do with financial gain than anything else. If they loved their country so much they wouldn’t have stiffed it with their little tax schemes.
http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/171-spivs-respect-and-necessary-change-in-the-online-rangers-community?
. . .ironic on so many levels !
Greeting about the word ‘spive’ being used to describe Sevco operations team.
. . .but they won’t use the name Sevco.
Happy to use the word ‘club’, yet they complain when others use the word to describe, erm, Rangers (dead) !
They complain about the BBC making maliscious mistakes when reporting the facts.
Why don’t these supporters have to be specific of what they are talking about and referring to
. . .the club or the company. . .the parent company or the wholly owned subsidiary which changed it’s name.
That’s why I prefer to go with Sevco, as that is what is on the birth certificate
. . .(maybe the title deeds too, but can’t be sure if it’s 5088 or Scotland)
billyj1 says:
September 25, 2013 at 6:30 pm
‘…Eventually a response was received, which from memory indicated that in future the services would be very careful if something similar ever occurred…’
—-
I have the reply I received from the Army.
We’ll wait and see what transpires.
The important point is that the Armed Forces are OURS, not the private army of one section of the populace. When appearing as representatives of the nation, there should not be the slightest hint on the part of the troops in uniform of allegiance to or bias in favour of any one ‘political’ view.
I feel pretty sure there will an officer in charge who will be briefed to ensure that no soldier, marine, sailor or airman/woman is allowed to appear bedecked in the colours of one particular football team or of one quasi-political philosophy having its roots in the history of another island.
I take it McCoist will have all the names of the forces staff that will be attending ,well he has lists of every other name that has either been for or against Sevco2012,and they will have been given the Ally nod of approval,no this is a very disturbing event where we have them waving to a crowd that will contain people that have threatened honest people from different walks of life for just carrying out their daily routines ,harmless routines that never threaten ,maim, injure or scare peoples loved ones out of their very homes,the feeling of just being in a stadium where these people lurk is a frightning thought in itself ,Scotland has openly had more death threats from people attached to this crowd than from any other faction against people just living their lives,and it will continue ,unabated.
Unless of course I have got it totaly wrong and this is not the same club that failed to pay taxes that would have contributed to vital supplies for the forces ,I forgot this is a new club and pays it’s taxes ,,or is intending to pay them,I know I could and would not go near a place of ill repute that had tainted its relationship with its goverment and then invite the very people that would have benifitted from the taxes it failed to unashamedly pay.Off my soapbox now.
The good old Stirling Lowland league! They know what the cry of ” the game’s a bogey” means.
I read in the ‘Scotsman’ today the intriguing little situation that developed in the Alex Jack Cup match between Gretna and Stirling university.
It appears that the game ended in a draw. But Instead of playing extra time, the referee went straight to penalty kicks. Gretna won 5-4.
But rules is rules. And, however belatedly, it was realised that the ref should have allowed the full extra time.
And tonight, apparently, the tie has to be replayed.
John Clarke
Surely the ref was doing the fans a favour with the rural bus timetable being what it is and the lack of local overnight establishments to accomodate such a large crowd ,one of our profesional teams from our lower leagues had to ,only a few weeks back had to stay overnight about 50 miles away due to accomodation problems,can’t blame the ref for being thoughtfull for a change
Dearie me!
Sorry Ecobhoy….agree with almost everything you write..and your journalism with some others is outstanding …way ahead of the entire MSM …as I have posted before.
but!!!..Don’t buy in on this one …agree with the other guys above .please please .not in uniforms!!!
A group presumably of largely young men and women many of whom have put their lives on the line..for all of us …being manipulated by this morally bankrupt crew..from McCoist to Mather et al
I can just picture the potential scene.. one of disgusting triumphalism….I pray and hope at least that doesn’t happen
Regardless how it turns out ..,…
just how low can these people stoop in their attempt to try to be relevant when they are in fact an embarrassment to us all with their hypocrisy ,puerile antics and perversely their completely bizarre lack of respect for the institutions of the Union eg HMRC etc?
I really feel for the genuine decent Rangers fans…innocent largely in all of this …and i believe there really are lots of them .They must be cringeing with this nonsense ..
If they are not?…God help them all !
Patriotism, the last refuge of scoundrels.
ecobhoy says:
September 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm
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It must be the lull before the storm.
There was only 1 trade in Rangers shares today at 4.19pm for 3 shares with a trade value totalling £1.52.
Who knows what it all means?
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That means one and a half Rangers football club mate.
On the Armed Services tribute day thing. I’m pretty sure this will not happen.
jerfeelgood says:
September 25, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Funny that, I got the same reply. 😮
Paranoid Alert!
Just maybe the 400 Armed Forces Personnel are just a wee teaser to get us all upset…..
Why?
Speculation! (and see top):-
If the ‘Bampots’ kick up a stink here, then the big ol’ poppy fiesta might not go as planned.
Likely! (see above and top)
The top brass have already muted the proceedings and the board need more haters. (Got more shares to sell at xmas).
Nothing sells shares like a bond against the haters.
WARNING!
Don’t get carried away with the 400 ‘free tickets’. ‘They’ need us to be the Party Po(o)ppy(er)s!
jimlarkin says:
September 25, 2013 at 9:57 pm
‘… .(maybe the title deeds too, but can’t be sure if it’s 5088 or Scotland)..’
—-
Charlotte ( I think it was Charlotte) tweeted a link which, when I opened it, was headed ” The demise of Rangers FC”.
This was what seemed to be a copy of the title deeds to’ Ibrox Stadium and surrounding’.
I cannot now remember when it appeared, but I printed it off on 4th May of this year( perhaps because by that time I had begun to accept that Charlotte was genuine).
In the ‘proprietorship’ section( on page 2 of 22) it shows ( horizontally across the page)
“entry number 1
date of registration 15/06/2012
proprietor : SEVCO SCOTLAND Limited, incorporated under the Companies Acts ( Company number 425159) and having its registered office at Capella, 60 York St., Glasgow, G2 8JX
Consideration “implementation of Agreement”
Date of entry 14/06/2012 ”
I dug out the printout a couple of weeks ago, and, in the interests of striving for absolute first hand knowledge,sent off to Registers Direct-Land Register to get my own copy.
By email on 13th September, I got the same 22 pages, with the same details.
So, as at that date, it seems pretty clear that Sevco Scotland owns Ibrox etc., as Charlotte( or whoever) had told us.
But there is nothing like checking for oneself.
And if the feckin SFA officers at the material times over the years had done some proper checking of their own, they would not have so compromised the whole feckin game!
And if we had had newspaper editors who were not in thrall to SDM ( or worse-and there are worse!) , and journos who might have had the sense to make the odd enquiry into the background of semi-articulate yobs from Motherwell who claimed to be billionaires, the truly terrible things that have happened in Scottish Football, that have been so destructive of Trust and belief in the Integrity of the Administrators and Legislators of the Sport ,might have been avoided.
Re The British Army & Sevco’s
I was on you tube tonight looking for various vesions of an old song called ” let The Rest of The World go by”. It was written in about 1919 and was featured in the movie “Out of Africa”. Well anway I came across a version by non other than Glen Daly (my apologise to those not from Glasgow) and played it and then noted the song he is famous for The Celtic Song. As I was going down some of the comments the was of course one or two by a chap called Godsavethequeen or something of that ilk with the usual vile taige and Irish comments. What was really sad those is that his profile picture was that of poor soldier and bandsman who was hacked to death in London. How sad must it be for the family of that poor soldier to see their sons image being used to spread hate, bigotory and division, shocking! Some of them are a mindless lot.
Can’t be bothered trying to make this sound better, but during the fleg debate or marching route debates, it’s easy to see the support for the armed forces by guys clad in scarfs and tops, they may have bought earlier at Charlie’s airport shop. And then there’s the Tina song, uch give me strength. nite.
I see in today’s Scotsman a Rangers fans spokesman is wailing about not knowing who the people are behind ‘nominee venture capital accounts’. The answer is they are the ‘Institutional Investors’ he and the rest crowed about last December after the share issue. He and the rest also crowed about Charles Green’s boast of Rangers being financially healthier than Celtic at the current point in time. People who are so regularly conned and fail to learn from the experience deserve no sympathy in my view.
upthehoops says:
September 26, 2013 at 7:28 am
I see in today’s Scotsman a Rangers fans spokesman is wailing about not knowing who the people are behind ‘nominee venture capital accounts’. The answer is they are the ‘Institutional Investors’ he and the rest crowed about last December after the share issue. He and the rest also crowed about Charles Green’s boast of Rangers being financially healthier than Celtic at the current point in time. People who are so regularly conned and fail to learn from the experience deserve no sympathy in my view.
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One thing I have learnt in my life is that people are human and most of us make mistakes that we often repeat and in my personal experience those recurring blindspots are often rooted in your family and cultural upbringing.
When anyone comes to the realisation that they have been badly wrong about something or the way they have acted previously then that to me is a cause of celebration because it means that, often unseen and unknown shackles, have been broken.
And always when I consider the position of ordinary Rangers supporters today I think back to when Celtic was a couple of short hours away from oblivion. Many many of my fellow fans were unable to grasp the enormity of what was happening and switched-off and later others refused to accept the medicine required for survival. So we might like to think as Celtic supporters we are superior to our City rivals in every way whereas, if truth be told, there are many similarities.
I truly believe we can never ever rid Scotland of our shame unless all ‘Good People’ manage to unite behind that essential campaign and at the heart of it must be trust and respect born out of reconciliation which is the springboard to our shared goal.
But Bears have to make an initial step by truly understanding what has gone wrong at Ibrox and that is by no means easy for them given the diet of pap they have been fed all their lives by a truly supine SMSM. So let’s not decry any Rangers supporter who is emerging from the fog just for the sake of it.
We should IMO be carrying on our work here to try and unravel the threads of what has been happening at Ibrox from the Murray era onwards for many reasons and not least to provide Bears with the tools to cut through the PR guff and distortion they have been fed.
The hard-core won’t listen although they can be marginalised but that has to be done by their fellow supporters and not by other fans as all that will achieve is the wagons being circled to repel attackers. The change in Rangers has to come from within and Rangers fans will end-up with the club they deserve whatever that might happen to be. That’s why I think it important to encourage positive signs no matter how small they might be.
Ecobhoy 8.14
Ol Gibran has it.
http://www.katsandogz.com/onpain.html
One really has to wonder why Rangers were trying to sign Zaliukas and Pandaza in the first place.
They clearly have enough in the squad to win both SPFL 1 and the Ramsden’s Cup comfortably. They are already out of the CIS Cup so that only leaves the Scottish Cup to compete for. I genuinely don’t think that is a reasonable prospect this season, even if those two players were brought in. So it is difficult to see why they would want to take on two extra wages.
It’s all very quiet.I note a little southerly direction in TRFC share price.
I see someone sold three shares yesterday for the princely sum of £1 :52.
I would have kept them as a small memento.Put them in a box,saved them for the grandchildren ?
À la recherche du temps perdu – Remembrance of things past.
ecobhoy says:
September 25, 2013 at 7:20 pm
Interesting sub story on the page your link brings up, here is direct link.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/football-thugs-banned-matches-43-2303442
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 25, 2013 at 3:35 pm
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Rangers FC Official
@RFC_Official
#Rangers & @RFC_Charity are proud to be welcoming over 400 armed services personnel to Ibrox on Saturday:
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Misread that as Rangers & @RFC_Charity are proud to be welcoming over 400 armed personnel to Ibrox on Saturday:
Now that would have been a story…
Tif Finn says:
September 26, 2013 at 10:38 am
One really has to wonder why Rangers were trying to sign Zaliukas and Pandaza in the first place.
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Well we of course don’t really know how hard they were trying (same can be said for every press article about Club X is after player Z).
But if nothing else it would be a sign to the hard-of-thinking Bearz that the war-chest is huge and can be used whenever required.
BTW did TRFC actually sign up ALL the “trialists” they had at the start of the season; I don’t actually remember seeing confirmation of that.
Subject change – so we are at the QF stage of the League Cup and not one single Glasgow club left. When did that last happen, anyone know (or care)?
ecobhoy says:
September 25, 2013 at 6:03 pm
TW says:
September 25, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 25, 2013 at 3:35 pm
#Rangers & @RFC_Charity are proud to be welcoming over 400 armed services personnel to Ibrox on Saturday:
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I actually think it would be up to clubs to invite the Armed Forces if they wished to celebrate National Armed Forced Day which is usually in June, Obviously being outwith the football season makes the National date unsuitable for football clubs.
I don’t see it as the Armed Forces allowing themselves to be aligned to Rangers PR as the decision on this is for individual clubs and their fans to make IMO.
__________________________________________________
I think it unlikely that the brass in charge of the armed forces in Scotland are unaware of the significance of their appearances at Ibrox.
As an former British soldier I can assure you the average squaddie does.
I can’t recall any other club in Britain, never mind Scotland, putting on an armed forces display of artillery being fired, (blanks of course) and all the embarrassing, and in some cases what looked like drunken behaviour that followed.
It was an exhibition that sullied the fallen in war, when it should have been a respectful silence in their memory.
I believe after complaints about that vulgar display, the army commander in Scotland made an apology, and promised that any further requests to have displays at football grounds would be more closely monitored .
Auldheid says:
September 26, 2013 at 10:06 am
Ecobhoy 8.14
Ol Gibran has it.
http://www.katsandogz.com/onpain.html
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I certainly agree with: ‘Much of your pain is self-chosen’.
EDIT ADD
I should make it clear I am not referring to Auldheid – and I know he knows that – but to others who may not have read the link.
Rather interesting correction at the end of this story on Craig Whyte
(BuisnessInsider)
http://t.co/Pf1FpcIhmP
bmchugh says:
September 26, 2013 at 11:47 am
BM, that IS an interesting correction! Wonder what prompted that?
Carntyne says:
September 26, 2013 at 11:16 am
It was an exhibition that sullied the fallen in war, when it should have been a respectful silence in their memory. I believe after complaints about that vulgar display, the army commander in Scotland made an apology, and promised any further requests to have displays at football grounds would be more closely monitored .
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I think it is worth remembering that the remebrance celebration at Ibrox had been taking place for a few years and slowly grew in size. It’s no excuse but I think the particular climate surrounding Rangers last year contributed greatly to the inexcusable breakdown in discipline that followed and was a slur on the memory of the fallen which all UK Remembrance Ceremonies have at their core.
I see no guns firing at the cenotaph nor any football kick-about although when we think back to that first Xmas in No Mans’ Land in WWI – when hostilities ceased and football was played between ordinary soldiers – it’s worth remembering how close we nearly came to a victory for humanity.
So the incessant firing of guns is over for our war dead who now have peace from the terror and pain that they suffered and all that they hear is their bugle call calling them home to the silence of their everlasting sleep having been cruelly cut-down all too young. And we still send them too often to do the dirty work for capitalism and politicians who care not about the wreckage to young bodies and minds of those who have done their duty.
I was livid when I saw how their memory was besmirched by comrades in arms and Rangers supporters last year who seemed to be completely unaware of what the whole point of remembrance is.
I know there were officers from all three services there because they were pictured laying a poppy wreath outside beside John Greig’s statue. That in itself puzzled me because I had never realised that there was any plaque to Rangers war dead at the spot. However, during the half-time debacle there was no sign of any officers and discipline broke down so quickly and completely that I seriously wondered at the time just how many Regular front-line troops were involved. Again I wondered if the Officers were being offered half-time hospitality as I didn’t spot them on the pitch.
However that was last year and I believe the matter has been correctly handled by the Scottish service chiefs in finding the display was totally inappropriate and would not be repeated and that the correct act of remembrance to honour our war dead was silence.
We are now talking about a different situation which has nothing to do with Remembrance and is designed to celebrate the role of current service personnel. I have already stated that I have no problem if they wear football scarves or have a kick-about.
But the decision will be made by the Service Chiefs and it may well be that the only people in unfiform will be the military band members. But the decision is for them to make. I will again suggest that we await events and see what happens and I again will say that I hope the troops enjoy their day out – why wouldn’t I as I am perfectly capable of separating pride in our Armed Forces from the deflectionist PR-driven agenda of Rangers which regulars on here know better than anyone is part of a failed business plan.
http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/scottish-business-news/2013/02/13/former-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-most-searched-for-uk-company-director-in-2012-106408-23958796/#.UkQKIw7N-VF.twitter
That’s about it then..I would suggest!
I don’t have any problem with anyone offering members of the armed forces a day out.
If it’s just that,a day out then fine.If they’re used as a publicity stunt,like last year then that’s a different matter altogether.
I do wonder,though,what part the Rangers Charity Foundation play in this.The cynic in me says that 400 hospitality packages at say,£100 per head means £40k passing from the RCF to TRFC.
It may just be the Foundation getting a bit of good publicity after recent revelations,though.
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 8:14 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cracking post and one I would normally be in full agreement with had it been any other team who found themselves in the position we now see. I would however add a further condition before we are all to be reconciled and that is that the club publicly denounce the WATP mentality and ban the politically motivated undesirables from the ground
400 spare seats at Ibroke? Canny be true. That place is jammed to the rafters week in week out allegedly
bmchugh says:
September 26, 2013 at 11:47 am
Rather interesting correction at the end of this story on Craig Whyte
(BuisnessInsider) http://t.co/Pf1FpcIhmP
=============================================
Definitely interesting and I wonder who requested it?
But the correction has an error in it as well – small wonder given what to me appears to be the self-generated confusion over what ‘Rangers’ is being talked about at any given time.
The correction states: ‘The ‘newco’, trading as The Rangers Football Club Ltd, thereafter listed on the Alternative Investment Market (AIM), trading under the name Rangers International Football Club Plc.’
TRFCL didn’t list on AIM – it was a new company RIFC Plc which listed and it isn’t the name TRFCL trades under which is actually ‘Rangers’ in whatever format suits at any given time or circumstance.
They might be meaning ‘trades’ as share trading but TRFCL is a private limited company and, as such, doesn’t and can’t trade on AIM or any other regulated market.
Still an important correction though ❗
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I don’t have any problem with anyone offering members of the armed forces a day out.
If it’s just that,a day out then fine.If they’re used as a publicity stunt,like last year then that’s a different matter altogether. I do wonder,though,what part the Rangers Charity Foundation play in this.
===============================================================
I believe there is going to be a cash collection at the game to be split between two service-related charities one of which is probably Erskine. I will refrain from making any comments as to the RCF involvement as I think they could be very cynical.
antinrobin says:
September 26, 2013 at 10:43 am
10 0 Rate This
It’s all very quiet.I note a little southerly direction in TRFC share price.
I see someone sold three shares yesterday for the princely sum of £1 :52.
I would have kept them as a small memento.Put them in a box,saved them for the grandchildren ?
——————————————————————————————————————–
I’m sure I read yesterday that McColl was selling up and walking away…that would about cover it! 😉
————————————
Perhaps it’s Jim McColl gearing up to take control?
Damn, you got there before me! Great minds and all that…..
Drew Peacock says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:20 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 8:14 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cracking post and one I would normally be in full agreement with had it been any other team who found themselves in the position we now see. I would however add a further condition before we are all to be reconciled and that is that the club publicly denounce the WATP mentality and ban the politically motivated undesirables from the ground
——————————————————————————–
Tbh because it is aimed at Rangers I honestly feel that other fans have to be prepared to go a bit further than they might normally do because this is far more important than football – it is about the shape of our future society and I believe that’s worth fighting for.
I never ever thought I would see the positive moves that have taken place in NI in my lifetime. There’s a long and rocky road still to be travelled there but the different communities are slowly moving along it and will eventually reach their shared goal I believe.
We have to start somewhere and I have no problem in a responsible ownership of rangers declaring quite simply that there is no divine right to win any football game – check with Celtic for that fact 😥
As to banning ‘political undesirables’ then that has its problems as definition could be a real difficulty and subject to all sorts of legal challenged including breaching Human Rights I would reckon.
On that kind of thing it is better that fans are told exactly what is expected of them in terms of behavour by the club owners as it’s better that fellow fans marginalise a small but still powerful hard-core.
But let’s be realistic – this all boils down to economics but I believe eventually there will be a tipping-point where the dross and baggage will be cleared-out by the owners and replaced by a more acceptable fan profile. I haven’t a clue when that will happen but I know it won’t if those in control whip fans into a frenzy and laager mentality that everyone else is a hater and attacker.
Who would actually want to sponsor or invest in such a damaged product? And I think that odour is already well-recognised by many, including Rangers Men, who are keeping their hands in their deep pockets. Eventually this will be understood at Ibrox and hopefully the fans will seize the opportunity to ensure the club’s future emphasis is on football and not issues which have nothing to do with what happens on the park.
FIFA says:
September 25, 2013 at 10:05 pm
… a crowd that will contain people that have threatened honest people from different walks of life for just carrying out their daily routines ,harmless routines that never threaten ,maim, injure or scare peoples loved ones out of their very homes,the feeling of just being in a stadium where these people lurk is a frightning thought in itself …
——
I assume you speak of the Rangers crowd? Because I have to admit I thought you meant a different club altogether for a minute there.
Interesting the comments about the £1.52 share sale being linked to McColl is a ‘humorous’ way. They are the kind of comments and worse found in Rangers sites which are pro-Board and virulently anti-McColl.
I think on a site like this we should remember that McColl was clear from Day 1 that he wouldn’t spend a penny in buying shares from people like Green to let them make a profit from Rangers.
I really hope posters on here recognise the difference between investing money in a Plc and buying shares from an investor selling previously purchased shares in the Plc. In the latter not a penny goes to the Plc.
Whether you support the McColl bid or not is irrelevant but he has taken a principled stand and I believe it is the correct one and doesn’t actually warrant childish humour with a possibly malevolent origin.
This is slightly off topic , but not really.
It’s about the rise of the ego maniac.
We are currently being regaled of the goings on at Michelle Mone’s business empire. There will always be 2 versions of events,but I know which one I believe.
The cult of the egomaniac with Sociopathic tendencies isn’t new, but it has become particularly acute in recent times. Mone is a classic example of how badly things have gone wrong in Scotland. We have gone from inventing almost every critical every day device or product , to holding up Michelle Mone and David Murray as examples of business success
The tabloids in particular should be ashamed of their role in this promotion. Mone is nothing other than a small business woman, employing less than 20 people, with a business of virtually no value, despite her shameless and farcical claims of being worth £48 million
Murray is a proven tax defrauder (DOS ) who may well be a multiple tax defrauder when the UTT reports. His burning of £ hundreds of millions of public money is the worst example to set to anyone aspiring to a business career.
Football seems to attract way more than its fair share of these self promoting fantasists. Dundee has had generations of them, as have Rangers and Hearts. Celtic St Johnstone & Hibs (recently)have gone down the opposite path . Much to their benefit. Say little , Do lots . That should be the mantra for Scottish football owners .
To go from Alexander Grahame Bell and John Logie Baird to David Murray & Michelle Mone in 2 generations is a horrible reflection on the country
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:25 pm
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I don’t have any problem with anyone offering members of the armed forces a day out.
If it’s just that,a day out then fine.If they’re used as a publicity stunt,like last year then that’s a different matter altogether. I do wonder,though,what part the Rangers Charity Foundation play in this.
===============================================================
I believe there is going to be a cash collection at the game to be split between two service-related charities one of which is probably Erskine. I will refrain from making any comments as to the RCF involvement as I think they could be very cynical.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As long as it’s the sodjurs daein’ the collectin, countin’ and bankin’ then it should be all quiet on the charity front.
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree re McColl’s strategy but was still able to chuckle at the joke. Where does that leave me?
cowanpete says:
September 26, 2013 at 11:13 am
BTW did TRFC actually sign up ALL the “trialists” they had at the start of the season; I don’t actually remember seeing confirmation of that.
====================================
From what I can make of things at least one of the players concerned was signed on a ‘pre-contract agreement’. Is it not the case that TRFC are thus in breach of regulations? In no way shape or form (as someone else might say) were these guys ‘trialists’.
SFA?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Barcabhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm
The FTT already ruled against Rangers / MIH in relation to 5 players who wsere paid via EBTs. As far as I am aware Rangers / MIH are not appealing that judgement to the UTT.
There is no maybe about the “multiple”. It has been proven.
Tailothebank says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:14 pm
http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/scottish-business-news/2013/02/13/former-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-most-searched-for-uk-company-director-in-2012-106408-23958796/#.UkQKIw7N-VF.twitter
==============================
Another world, OK UK, record?
Scottish Football needs a strong Spartans and Cove Rangers.
I really am at a loss to understand why people think that changing the board of the holding company which owns Rangers will have a dramatic effect on the football clubs fortunes.
I think it has been established fairly comprehensivelly that they need more money. Short of a share issue or the sale of major assets (whether it be players’ registrations or property) I don’t see where that is coming from. That’s only short term.
Longer term, how are they going to restructure things for the club to live within it’s means. As far as I can see the PLC has been funding the football club using money it raised in the IPO (in spite of what the propspectus actually promised). How will a new board on the PLC change the football club so that it is self sustaining and can live within it’s means. How can it do that and also support a team which will dominate Scottish football, the support demand no less.
I just don’t see it. The income simply wasn’t there before, we can all see that, where is it going to come from now. Especially with the brand of the new club being even more tainted than the old one.
Tif Finn says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Barcabhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm
The FTT already ruled against Rangers / MIH in relation to 5 players who wsere paid via EBTs. As far as I am aware Rangers / MIH are not appealing that judgement to the UTT.
There is no maybe about the “multiple”. It has been proven.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m not so sure that is strictly correct.
I was reading the UTT judge’s (Bishopp) summary the other day of what was to be heard at the forthcoming case and in relation to the five it was more a case of the FTT recognising that MIH and HMRC were going to go away and reach an agreement on how these 5 cases were to be settled.
It appears that no agreement could be reached so they are possibly back in the mix and to be dealt with by the UTT. I may have got this wrong but don’t think so.
Drew Peacock says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:03 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree re McColl’s strategy but was still able to chuckle at the joke. Where does that leave me?
————————————————————————–
Humour is a very individual thing so you’ll need to work that one out for yourself I’m afraid 😉
However worth remembering that ‘humour’ can be a very sharp sword to wound and decry someone or their aims and that is happening continuously on the Bear sites with each side employing a full array of weaponry, including humour, to wage their increasingly vicious civil war and no matter the outcome I doubt there will be any bears laughing at the end 😥
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:17 pm
6 0 Rate This
I don’t have any problem with anyone offering members of the armed forces a day out.
If it’s just that,a day out then fine.If they’re used as a publicity stunt,like last year then that’s a different matter altogether.
I do wonder,though,what part the Rangers Charity Foundation play in this.The cynic in me says that 400 hospitality packages at say,£100 per head means £40k passing from the RCF to TRFC.
It may just be the Foundation getting a bit of good publicity after recent revelations,though.
================================
simple enough
RCF have ordered 400 seats for a Forces day out at ibrox
TRFC have billed RCF £100 a head (say) for the day out – i’m sure it’ll include a pie and a match program.
So, RCF now owe TRFC £40k
Between now and the end of the season, supporters will be asked to fill buckets with spare change to give to RCF – which will pay for the tickets.
Charity gets it’s money, Charity pays for soldiers day out, TRFC Ltd gets 40k
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm
But echo, he did buy shares, albeit tiny amounts. What I’m poking fun at is his attempted marshalling of the shareholders, when he himself had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I’ve no doubt McColl probably would be the best thing to hit Rangers, The Rangers, ‘The Continuation of Rangers’ or whatever you want to call them, for a very long time. He’s been the only one who has given a realistic assessment of what’s required , but the point was that he wasn’t willing to risk his own money in the process – which as far as I can tell, makes him no different to me, or, indeed, David Murray, or any other person offering their opinion/advice (although he may have a bit more of a clue than myself as to how to run a successful business – I’ll concede that! 😀 )
Tif Finn says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Theres two sides to the answer to your question – what benefit a new board?
Taking a purely economic or financial standpoint you are correct, no difference apart from a fresh approach to cutting a monthly deficit.
From what I’ll loosley term a political standpoint though I think it is fair to say that there are those in power, including within the corridors of Ibrox itself, that the old gig was broken, the spivs were being given a toy to play with but that the core operation must be returned to the brogue wearing blazers once the spivs had had their fun.
The problem those of the latter approach face is that they’re president and CEOs of the SFA and SPFL respectively!!! Seriously, no, the other slightly larger problem they face is that the delicous scanario they pander back to (circa 2005-7 with a liberal sprinkling of Gazza and Laudrup on top) has subsequently been proven to be both a complete illusion, and more importantly an illusion that we the supporters of the other teams in Scotland were paying through the nose to facilitate.
Anyone that strives, never mind cheats to recreate that, well hell slap it into them ((c) Brenda)
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:28 pm
Torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I don’t have any problem with anyone offering members of the armed forces a day out.
If it’s just that,a day out then fine.If they’re used as a publicity stunt,like last year then that’s a different matter altogether.
I do wonder,though,what part the Rangers Charity Foundation play in this.The cynic in me says that 400 hospitality packages at say,£100 per head means £40k passing from the RCF to TRFC.
It may just be the Foundation getting a bit of good publicity after recent revelations,though.
================================
simple enough
RCF have ordered 400 seats for a Forces day out at ibrox
TRFC have billed RCF £100 a head (say) for the day out – i’m sure it’ll include a pie and a match program.
So, RCF now owe TRFC £40k
Between now and the end of the season, supporters will be asked to fill buckets with spare change to give to RCF – which will pay for the tickets. Charity gets it’s money, Charity pays for soldiers day out, TRFC Ltd gets 40k
============================================================
Before some statements become accepted as ‘facts’ can anyone point me to where RCF is even being charged 1p for the attendance of service personnel?
I thought they would get a free seat and as we know tghe cost of one of those is 0p as we have seen previously – I didn’t know they were getting a hospitality package and haven’t actually seen that printed anywhere. As I said my understanding was that the Charity element was in relation to a collection at the match to go to a couple of service-related charities.
We may have some reservations about RCF mainly due to Corsica’s excellent work but although I know Rangers can be crazy I don’t think that they are that crazy as to get embroiled in anything non-kosher on this one. After all there will be a field gun in attendance 🙂
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm
———————————-
true, lets not speculate.
Lets wait until audited accounts come out. It’ll all be clear then
When are teh RCF accounts due as well? that should make interesting reading too
By the way, i don’t think there is anything wrong (well, non-kosher) about this
The club facilitates raising cash for the charity, the charity uses that cash to fund activities in it’s stated objectives. Buying tickets for service personnel (perhaps through another charity) would tick that box
Shooperb says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm
But eco, he did buy shares, albeit tiny amounts. What I’m poking fun at is his attempted marshalling of the shareholders, when he himself had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I’ve no doubt McColl probably would be the best thing to hit Rangers, The Rangers, ‘The Continuation of Rangers’ or whatever you want to call them, for a very long time. He’s been the only one who has given a realistic assessment of what’s required , but the point was that he wasn’t willing to risk his own money in the process – which as far as I can tell, makes him no different to me, or, indeed, David Murray, or any other person offering their opinion/advice.
===========================================================
I haven’t a clue whether McColl personally has even bought a single share. In any case people who buy their way onto the seat of any board always strike me as those who can’t get there on ability or are joining an organisation so financially shaky that they can’t raise money any other way and probably have a serioiusly broken business model to boot.
You say McColl has nothing to lose but everything to gain. I homestly haven’t a clue what you are driving at. I would have thought that he has an excellent reputation to be lost and some are already going down that road with so-called ‘humour’ which stinks more of the dark-arts of PR to me.
Everything to gain? I don’t think McColl’s involvement with Rangers is anything to do with personally gaining anything but if you know different then please enlighten me. McColl brings a huge chunck of business gravitas to Rangers which coupled with Blin’s reputation for fiscal probity might be able to attract the investment required for Rangers’ survival.
He has explained why he isn’t investing which makes sound financial sense in the situation that Rangers is currently in. You don’t seem to be able to grasp that no matter how many millions of shares that McColl bought then not one penny would go to the club. Until you come to that realisation you will not understand what McColl is about and I believe correctly.
I also happen to believe that McColl is very different to you and to me and to say he is no different from DM – well there must be a joke in there somewhere. One of them is a successful Scottish businessman and the other isn’t. I’ll leave it to you to work out which is which.
McColl isn’t offering any ‘advice/opinion’ as you put it – he is offering a rescue deal for Rangers. If that is voted down then he has done what he felt he had to do and whether he comes back later or not will be his decision. If it were me I wouldn’t but he’s probably a much better man than I am.
Re. Armed Forces Day at Ibrox
It looks to me like the head honchos in the armed forces have taken a closer interest in this and made efforts to ensure that it’s clearly distinct from Remembrance events. They have to play the PR game too (4,500 redundancies announced in June) and getting some profile for services personnel any way they can is obviously appealing to them. I’d hope that a repetition of the events of 10/11/12 would see Major General Nick Eeles feeling a bit queasy after his hospitality this Saturday. That said, he appears to have survived last year’s nonsense happily enough.
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm
7 16 Rate This
Interesting the comments about the £1.52 share sale being linked to McColl is a ‘humorous’ way. They are the kind of comments and worse found in Rangers sites which are pro-Board and virulently anti-McColl.
I think on a site like this we should remember that McColl was clear from Day 1 that he wouldn’t spend a penny in buying shares from people like Green to let them make a profit from Rangers.
I really hope posters on here recognise the difference between investing money in a Plc and buying shares from an investor selling previously purchased shares in the Plc. In the latter not a penny goes to the Plc.
Whether you support the McColl bid or not is irrelevant but he has taken a principled stand and I believe it is the correct one and doesn’t actually warrant childish humour with a possibly malevolent origin.
————————————————————————————————
Wow!
ecobhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 11:24 am
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Auldheid says:
September 26, 2013 at 10:06 am
Ecobhoy 8.14
Ol Gibran has it.
http://www.katsandogz.com/onpain.html
==========================================
I certainly agree with: ‘Much of your pain is self-chosen’.
EDIT ADD
I should make it clear I am not referring to Auldheid – and I know he knows that – but to others who may not have read the link.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I thought the next bit was spot on. 🙂
” It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self.”
Drew Peacock says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm
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Tif Finn says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Barcabhoy says:
September 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm
The FTT already ruled against Rangers / MIH in relation to 5 players who wsere paid via EBTs. As far as I am aware Rangers / MIH are not appealing that judgement to the UTT.
There is no maybe about the “multiple”. It has been proven.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m not so sure that is strictly correct.
I was reading the UTT judge’s (Bishopp) summary the other day of what was to be heard at the forthcoming case and in relation to the five it was more a case of the FTT recognising that MIH and HMRC were going to go away and reach an agreement on how these 5 cases were to be settled.
It appears that no agreement could be reached so they are possibly back in the mix and to be dealt with by the UTT. I may have got this wrong but don’t think so.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To help me check back on the FTT who were the 5 players again?
What I find most repulsive and nauseating about the Ibrox club inviting 400 members of the Forces to their game, is that it has absolutely nothing to do with honouring those in uniform
It is no more than an exercise in Sevconians parading their loyalist, unionist, and supremacist credentials, and hopefully it will be seen for what it is by most people
They would achieve the same effect by parading 400 members of the Orange Order, but then they couldn’t dress that up as a charity event
Auldheid says:
September 26, 2013 at 2:51 pm
====================================
It’s here: http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=6850
(iv) Footballers: guaranteed bonuses
210. Finally, Mr Thornhill noted five cases where peculiarly trust payments were
made in respect of guaranteed bonuses. These relate to Messrs Selby, Inverness,
Doncaster, Barrow, and Furness, as confirmed by his instructing solicitor’s letter of
29 September 2011. The Appellants concede that in these cases there is a sufficient
nexus with a contractual right to create a tax liability (paras 19 and 20 of Supplementary Skeletal Argument of 4 November 2011).
The Unseen Fenian Hand/Trojan Horse? Celtic Nation FC @CelticNationFC 3m
Willie McStay announced as new Celtic Nation FC manager: http://www.celticnation.com/#!willie-mcstay-appointed-as-new-manager/cmii …
Auldheid says:
September 26, 2013 at 2:51 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A few days back on this thread the judge’s pre hearing comments were posted (by JC ?) It was from there that I picked up the issue with the 5 – sorry I don’t know their names. Probably easier to look there.
I checked back and it was Bawsman who posted it not JC – my apologies to the court if I misled anyone.
The relevant section is here in block quotes (hopefully):
The
outstanding issues, I should add, were the determination, in the light of the majority’s
conclusions, of the tax treatment of the contributions to the EBT made by the Murray
Group in respect of five individuals, and of the loans made by the trusts to those
individuals. The majority expressed the hope, if not the expectation, that the parties
would be able to resolve those matters for themselves, but unfortunately they have not
been able to do so.
10. For the Murray Group Mr Andrew Thornhill QC, leading Mr Jonathan Bremner
and Mr Thomas Chacko, argued that the manner in which the majority had expressed the
hope to which I have referred indicated a readiness to resume the hearing if agreement
could not be reached. That opportunity should be taken first in order that a single,
composite appeal could be heard by the Upper Tribunal. Until then that appeal should be
stayed. The majority had expressly refrained from giving a concluded view and, in the
absence of such a view, it was difficult to see how the Upper Tribunal could properly
determine the entirety of the matter.
Smugas says:
September 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm
7 1 i
Seriously, no, the other slightly larger problem they face is that the delicous scanario they pander back to (circa 2005-7 with a liberal sprinkling of Gazza and Laudrup on top)
———————————————–
They are pandering back to the first two seasons of Gordon Strachan’s Celtic’s 3 in a row !??
Sorry for being obtuse again about anotherwise sound post 😈
Whilst the initial post on this discussion (Resolution for Celtic AGM re 2011 Licence) may be premature (and incorrect) it does bring those interested up to date with progress and points of debate.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8850012/3/
Drew Peacock says:
September 26, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Thanks. The mention had me wondering about earlier trusts stuff (DOS) but I see it cannot be related.
Saves me crawling through the FTT. Cheers.
Rules for everybody else……guidelines for the new entity. It is way past corruption/collusion now
Stand down
Eeramacaroonbar says:
September 26, 2013 at 4:32 pm
No need for Scottish Cup ban, just leave Ally in charge, he’ll get them knocked out!
MoreCelticParanoia says:
September 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm
No probs. I was talking more generically about helicopters and European final appearances. Isn’t that what we all pay our money to see 😈 ?
Note devil smiley inserted in the absence of largefishingrodsmiley
Taken from CQN site
iPaddy McCourt Supports Wee Oscar
16:19 on 26 September, 2013
Interesting case appears on the list (Rolls of Court) as a newly-raised action at the Court of Session today:-
Imran Ahmad v The Rangers Football Club Ltd
No indication of what the subject matter of the action is. No doubt all will become apparent soon enough!
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rolls/supreme/lists/r130926_024.htm#notice
From charlotte
@Pmacgiollabhain The word inside RIFC was quite different. Perhaps the SFA have been duped regarding the inquiry
scribd.com/doc/171190071/…